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I was drugged, and just like missing for like 7 hours.
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I didn't want to find out what happened. I want revenge.
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Her EP is called Everything to Everyone.
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It's Renée Rapp in the building.
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Let's give her a round of applause.
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I was shamed for so many years for being so hyper-emotional and crying so much and like getting angry so fast.
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I just am so afraid to celebrate myself and then be like slapped in the face. I don't want that.
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I value like being very true to how you feel, whether that's a good feeling or not. That's powerful.
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The best-selling author and host The number one health and wellness podcast with Jay Shetty I feel like you've been through so much change, so many, you know, career paths.
1:03
And then I was like, you're so young as well.
1:05
And I was like, wow, like it's so much that you've been through.
1:09
And I guess my first question is, how do you feel about where you've landed now?
1:14
Like who is the Renée today?
1:17
What version of this is you? How are you feeling? Yeah.
1:22
My manager and I were just talking about this in the car.
1:23
Every couple months, I get into this like new wave of like where like something really settles in where I'm like a new level or I feel like personally I'm at a new level or I'm at like a different level of visibility.
1:35
Typically in the past it's felt really good.
1:38
Right now, to be honest, it feels very, um, scary in like a lot of ways.
1:44
I just like in a I'm really aware of myself all of a sudden.
1:50
Um, so I love the changes.
1:50
I feel very grateful right now, um, for everything I've done and hopefully knock on wood or whatever continue to do, but there's new the new the newness and the new levels when they come it they it knocks me. Yeah. It knocks me. What's scary?
2:08
I am becoming much more aware of how people perceive me. Mhm.
2:17
And whether that's um good or bad or in between, I feel some kind of way about it.
2:21
And I'm trying to like let that go really bad.
2:26
I'm trying really really hard. It's not been working.
2:30
I'm like we had like a bunch of like stuff come out this morning about like the album and granted this is all like fairly good news, but I like immediately just started having such an anxiety attack cuz I was like oh I just don't want anybody to ever speak about me again, which is exactly why I'm here today.
2:50
And exactly why I keep doing this.
2:50
Um yeah, it's it's a weird thing. I I don't know. I don't know. It's it's interesting.
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It's never really sat with me before in that way.
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Like this really hit me about a week ago where I was like oh I've actually chosen to like have a very visible life. Mhm.
3:06
It just really hit me to be honest. Yeah. okay.
3:08
Yeah, in my own small way I can relate to that as well.
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In my own world like same thing though.
3:12
What's really interesting is I think from the outside in Yeah.
3:16
a level up looks quite at least from the way I perceive it, my opinion. Sure.
3:22
I think from the outside in most people's careers level up look very orchestrated and manufactured when in reality they're a lot more organic Yeah. a lot more natural. I think so. I think so.
3:35
Especially like especially of course I'm such like an internet rat.
3:40
Like I really have to get better about like not reading everything. I'm I'm so bad at that.
3:44
I like commend people who are good at being like I'm going to turn my phone off and not take this to heart. I cannot do that.
3:53
I care so much and I got to let that go.
3:56
Um, but I I definitely feel that way cuz I read things sometimes again that I shouldn't be reading, but that are so interesting to me.
4:03
Like somebody somebody the other day called me an industry plant and I was like, bro, I wish I was an industry plant.
4:11
I was like, that would be amazing.
4:12
I was like, that would be iconic.
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I was like, if like my father was like some like industry mogul, that would be lovely.
4:19
He went into like medical sales.
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Like he didn't help me out like that, you know, so yeah, it's always it's always interesting and I find it really silly and funny, but yeah.
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Yeah, and then it must be hard.
4:29
I mean, obviously I think everyone's seen it, the video where you sadly have a stalker coming up to you and Drew on set on stage and then it's almost like looks like you've been notified and you kind of see it coming and then you're protecting Drew.
4:45
Like I mean, like when you have moments like that happen, does that almost make you feel more vulnerable and susceptible or I feel like even just saying that out loud, it sounds so silly and so like woe is me, but I really was so weirded out by that whole thing and I that's not to say that like it it shouldn't be.
5:02
I just like I don't know.
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She's such a G and she's such a pro and sadly has probably had that happen her entire life.
5:09
I've never been in situations where that has happened to myself luckily or anybody around me. That was so scary. I I cuz Understandable. know.
5:20
Like you never He had like a bag on him and I was like, okay, I just don't know where this could go.
5:23
Also, I'm I live in fighter flight just by the nature of having so much anxiety.
5:30
So like when you see me like twitch in that video and like go, it's like half of like A, I'm like a pretty like transparent person.
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Like if somebody like scares me, you're going to know.
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And also B, like that was so jarring for me. Mhm. But yeah, I don't know.
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I just never been through anything like that before.
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To me, I'm like, I know it sounds very woe is me and silly, but it did scare the hell out of me. Yeah. No, it's very weird. Fully understandable.
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I'm glad that, you know, it didn't go any further than it did. Same.
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And yeah, it's always worrying.
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Again, I think it's the unpredictability of it.
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I was reading a study that was saying that humans would rather know 100% that a bad thing is going to happen as opposed to have a 50/50 chance of it happening or not happening.
6:12
Oh my god, yeah, probably. Right?
6:12
Like we we would rather know that something bad's going to happen rather than live in this world of like it could or it couldn't. Like that uncertainty.
6:19
You've been doing this for a long time.
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What parts of your anxiety have you got better at dealing with and but what parts of anxiety are like still just flaring up?
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Well, it's funny cuz I think that I 100 I get what you're saying because 100% of my decision-making happens before I do something.
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Like this morning, right?
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Like when like chart data or things are coming out about like the album, before anything was even posted, published, out there, whatever, I had already made the assumption and was already like, "Okay, people are going to be upset about this.
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This is going to be not real.
6:55
And I've already decided that it's bad before it happens so that I've I can prepare myself to at least not be so disappointed. Mhm.
7:04
Um so, I definitely do that. Uh And does that help? I actually don't know.
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I don't know because for everyone around me, like all they say is like, "We really want you to enjoy things."
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And like, "We want you to be having fun and we want you to be able to celebrate yourself."
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I just am so afraid to celebrate myself and then be like slapped in the face. I don't want that. I would I don't know.
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And I don't know if it's not great to say I would rather live in a state of like just like chilling and like hope that nothing horrific happens, but be prepared if it does. Mhm.
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I don't know what's better or worse. I'm not sure.
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No, I don't think there is.
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I just wanted to know how you yeah. I I don't know.
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I mean, don't get me wrong, I would love to enjoy things a little bit more.
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I'm not really there right now.
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I still I still I think have like the same anxieties as when I started.
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It's just more that I'm I'm much more aware of how I'm perceived now. Mhm.
7:56
And you feel before you just weren't aware and so Yeah, I just kind of was like, "Oh, this is me.
8:00
I'm so out here and don't care and whatever."
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Um I also was just so hungry to do this and to be doing music that it was just like run for it.
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And now I kind of feel like that I'm embarking on whatever music looks like in my life, I'm much more nervous about it.
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Um maybe just cuz I'm in it and experiencing it, but it's definitely weird. It's definitely weird.
8:28
Do you have to Do you have to turn down the outside noise when you're creating and when you're making and are you able to do that or is it just so hard and It's not something that I really think of when I'm creating.
8:37
It's something I think of when I'm acting.
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I'm more so thinking about like for me like do I feel like I'm doing the best I possibly can.
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I'm so hypercritical of myself when I'm writing that I'm not even worried about another person cuz I don't even have the space in my brain to think about someone else's opinion, if that makes sense. Mhm.
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Um which I guess is nice. Yeah, it sounds great. It sounds good to me.
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It's a little nice though, yeah.
9:02
It's bad when I write like a really bad song though.
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Cuz when I write a bad song, like my like worst critic is myself and it's like oof.
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What's What's the thought you think you repeat the most at those times?
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That I will never write another good song again. It goes to that extreme. Oh my god, in 2 seconds.
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And that everybody around me is lying to me and that everybody who is kind enough to work with me and um put their time and energy toward things that I really want for my career and how sweet that is that they're all making ginormous mistakes and this is all a leap of faith that they've taken that they're going to regret. Mhm.
9:42
Immediately jumped into that. Totally.
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And then how long would you sit in that for? Uh long time. A long time.
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Like this morning again, good things were happening and I was just like in my head I'm just like they're all lying to me. I'm like there's no way.
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Mind you these are people who I trust and love and who are giving up time out of their lives to work toward a goal that I really want so deeply.
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Like these are lovely people.
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It has nothing to do with them and everything to do with me.
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But yeah, I sit in that all the time.
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And then what gets you out of it? I just keep going.
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Like resilience and also just I want it so bad and I also like I want to succeed for myself but I also really want to like prove to everybody who is working with me or who believes in me or even like consumes my music from two seconds of a song to like listens to everything I put out.
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Like I want to do well for those people. So I don't know. Maybe like drive. Things like that. Yeah.
10:41
Fear of failure really motivates me. I love her.
10:46
Do all of these characters in your head have names and voices and hers and his and theirs?
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My god, they're all they're all they're all me.
10:52
They're just all different versions of me.
10:54
Like the like fear of failure is like me as like a kid. Yeah.
10:59
I think cuz I like I used to set like such obnoxious goals for myself as a child.
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Like and it would keep changing.
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I would be like if I'm not Beyoncé by the time I'm 18, I have failed. Wow. Insane.
11:12
It It used to be things like that.
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It used to be and I And when I was really really little I'd be like if I am not on Disney Channel by the time that I am 13, I might as well just end it all.
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Like they were just such extreme extreme things.
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Um so they're just all different versions of myself that just kind of coexist or lack thereof. Yeah. They don't have that.
11:34
And do you find yourself still repeating those audacious goals even now or Oh my god, every day. Yeah. Every day.
11:43
And they're they're Let's be clear.
11:45
They're things I'm not necessarily proud of. No, no, I get that. Yeah. Yeah. across. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 100 Okay, fabulous.
11:51
Cuz sometimes I like say something and I'm like, "No, no, no, that's not how I like feel.
11:54
That is what I think though."
11:55
Um like this morning, like these are great things that are happening. Yeah. Okay?
11:59
And like we we had like a top 10 like debut album and everybody's like, "This is amazing."
12:08
And in my brain I was like, "I could have done better."
12:11
Like all I could think of in my head was like, "I could have done better."
12:13
And I cried and I like beat myself up and then I like kind of came to and was like, "Oh, no, this is actually like very exciting."
12:21
And then I would like go back down again.
12:23
You know that movie Talladega Nights? Yeah, yeah, of course.
12:24
It was where he's like What a great reference. I was thinking of that.
12:28
If you ain't first, you're last. Yeah.
12:29
Like that's all I think of in my brain, which is so silly and so stupid and I wish I didn't feel that way, but I really do. Mhm. I really do.
12:37
No, hearing you explain it and I want to clarify what I was reaffirming with you was hearing you explain it is a really good breakdown of how I think so many of us think. Totally.
12:48
So, hearing you articulate it with so much clarity Yeah.
12:52
I'm listening going, "I know there are times when I think exactly the same way as that." Absolutely.
12:55
And I know everyone who's listening is going in their own way Sure. the same thing. Yes.
13:00
And all know how debilitating that is because now number two is the same as 99 Yes.
13:06
and it makes no difference.
13:06
And by the way, 99's great, but 99 is not you know, we're looking Exactly.
13:12
So, it just keeps going and it's it's a perpetual cycle which can be so paralyzing. Insane.
13:18
I also would never hold someone else to the standard that I hold myself.
13:22
And I'm very aware of that.
13:22
It doesn't change how I feel sadly, but I never in my life would say to somebody if they were like, "My debut album debuted at 5,600, whatever."
13:31
I'd be like, "That is amazing.
13:34
What an incredible amount of work, blood, sweat, and tears you and so many other people around you have put into this, and this is an accomplishment that you should celebrate for years and years on end." Mhm.
13:45
And believe every single word of that.
13:47
For myself, I'm like, "Could have done better.
13:50
I should have done more."
13:50
I'm just immediately like, "What should I have done better?" Yeah. Which is silly. Yeah.
13:53
But it is a kind of like a human thing, I guess.
13:58
Yeah, and I think it's that almost It's interesting, isn't it?
14:00
It's like that's the same mindset that will make you improve and get better, but it's the same mindset that can slow you down and drain you.
14:08
It is It is also the lifestyle that I have been like praised for by like adult figures in my life since I was very young.
14:16
That's where it comes from. Oh my god, absolutely. Absolutely.
14:17
Like, I don't blame anyone or think this is like a negative thing that somebody, you know, put in my brain, but I do always think of it.
14:27
Like, I used to like finish like basketball games or like any sort of competitive thing that I would do, whether it was like sports or like some like showcase for like singing.
14:38
And like my first like comment from like my parents, who I love and who are so supportive, but my first comment from my parents would be like, "Okay, what could you have done better?"
14:46
Even if I would have like crushed. Mhm.
14:50
And so like that is honestly my thought every single time, which in a way is really great, cuz I'm always like trying to make myself better and also like hold myself accountable for places that I um slipped up, could have done more, didn't do enough. Yeah.
15:06
But then also it becomes this thing where you just like beat yourself up for every little like tiny place you could have had a little celebratory moment and congratulations internally that you then don't have. Yeah. Very weird. Mhm.
15:19
It's almost It's taking that question, Mhm.
15:20
if all of us were first asked, "What did you do great?"
15:23
Not what you What could you have done better? I got to be great.
15:28
Like it just positions it so differently.
15:29
Like if someone said to you, "What did you do great?"
15:31
And you as a kid were like, "I think I did this right, and I think I got this right, and I think I did this right." Now you've celebrated. You've got a moment.
15:36
What you were just saying earlier, you've had a moment to celebrate and know yourself and know that you've won and that you're powerful and and great.
15:46
And then it's like, "Okay, well, what could you have done better?"
15:49
And now it's like, "Okay, now I have Absolutely.
15:50
Happy balance of the two. Exactly.
15:53
Whereas if you don't have the what you did great, you only have the critical, judgmental, questioning Oh my god.
15:59
When I first started doing therapy, I was 20.
16:01
So this is like maybe 3 years ago now, 3 and 1/2 years ago.
16:04
And I will never forget like they would therapists would like ask me, they'd be like, "Okay, what is something you like like about yourself?
16:12
Or what is something you're proud of that you do?"
16:15
And I could not for years like answer that question at all.
16:19
I would just start sobbing. Every single time. Every single time.
16:24
I was just like, "I cannot compliment myself in any sort of the way." Which sucks. Sucks. How about now?
16:32
I can I can I do I do a better job of it now. I do better job of it.
16:38
I love the people in my life really, really hard. Very glad. Yeah. beautiful. Yeah. You found it. Yes. Woohoo.
16:47
No, and you've attracted them. Yeah.
16:49
Yeah, and they're They've attracted you.
16:50
Yeah, it's like it's it's a two-way thing.
16:52
It's like they're around you because they love you and believe in you, and you're around them because you love them and believe in them. Mhm. That's that's special.
16:58
And you know, I'm I'm going to definitely miss you on Sex Lives of College Girls.
17:04
Like I I your character is awesome.
17:06
Me and my Me and my wife watch the show all the time and absolutely loved it. Thanks.
17:11
What What you were just talking about earlier, like acting was actually a space that made you feel a lot more Yeah.
17:16
like anxious and everything.
17:16
Was that the reason to switch over or what was it for you that made you go, "You know what? I need to step away."
17:23
No, I mean, to be honest, like I inevitably like one day I'm like very excited to to talk about it.
17:29
I can't say a ton about it being with the SAG strike.
17:33
That being said, acting to me was always just so scary. It was just so scary.
17:39
It was just something I had no confidence in and thought I was just so so so terrible at.
17:44
It was something that came later on in my life at least to this point, later on in my life. I was like 18, 19.
17:52
That I just didn't think I could do.
17:54
And it became like a really amazing opportunity to like get people's attention, to pay attention to me, to do music.
18:04
Which I didn't feel like I was getting when I was younger or at least it was harder for me to.
18:09
But I just really really wanted attention musically.
18:13
And I wanted to like get signed and do like the whole thing.
18:15
And when acting became a conduit for that, I just was like, "Okay, I guess I got to do this."
18:24
Like I would be silly not to do this.
18:27
I still felt so so incredibly insecure around it.
18:29
I just was like, "I cannot do this."
18:32
I was like, "I'm going to get fired from any job that I have when it comes to acting."
18:36
So it's something I developed a love for now, later on.
18:39
Actors are so so so thoughtful.
18:45
So thoughtful and so like careful and articulate and like you really have to like rid yourself of like the judgment.
18:51
And I struggle so so hard with that.
18:54
So it's it's just something that I was always so insecure about.
18:58
That's actually a really powerful lesson though.
19:00
And I'm glad you shared that detail because most of us have one goal and we think there's one path to it.
19:08
And we're just walking in that direction.
19:10
And often that door doesn't open at a certain age, at a certain time, at a certain point in life.
19:18
But we don't realize that a pivot at that point, doing something that you're even massively uncomfortable with god, so uncomfortable.
19:24
But that's actually helped and been a productive and proactive use of time as an investment in doing what you really want to do, which I loved as a life lesson. Like that's incredible. That's huge.
19:36
Yeah, no, it's it's been the best.
19:36
I've like not only like in a in a career sense have I grown so much and learned so much and been able to work with really incredible people.
19:45
I've also like met like my best friends in the whole wide world.
19:48
Like my best friend in the planet I met on TV show, Aleah.
19:54
And you know, so it's like it's it's given me a lot.
19:58
And it's been like a really, really big catalyst for my music career.
20:04
And that is not at all lost on me. That's fantastic.
20:06
What what's been your most difficult insecurity to channel in music?
20:11
Like what's been the hardest thing to actually communicate and express?
20:15
And why do you think that is? It's interesting.
20:17
I feel like I express most of my insecurities and things that I think Yeah.
20:22
pretty well and it's pretty openly. Absolutely. No, I think you do. That's why yeah, yeah. Totally.
20:28
But even though I do, I still constantly feel like I'm so not communicating anything well. Anything at all.
20:38
Even though I know I do that, you know?
20:41
Like that is the entire basis of like my like songwriting is like exactly how I feel and like letting that go.
20:48
Again, whether it be something I'm like proud of this thought and opinion I have or whether it's something that I'm not proud of.
20:53
But at the end of the day, that is how I feel and that is my art and that is the reason why I put it out there. Whatever.
20:58
I still judge every inch of it so harshly. Like I cannot let it go.
21:05
Like, I wrote like a bunch of songs on my album and I'm really like proud of the things that I said and like proud of the place that it comes from and then I'll panic about having written it and be like, "Oh my god, I shouldn't have said that. That was so stupid."
21:21
Like, "Am I just like sending the wrong like message or something?"
21:25
Or am I, you know, going against everything I believe in?
21:27
And then I'm like, "No, that is actually just like how I felt in that moment and like not everything I say is like Bible and like how you should live your life." Please God, don't. But like, I don't know.
21:38
I I communicate it all and I'm proud of how I do, but I don't let that just be.
21:45
Like, I that just never exists.
21:45
So, I can over-communicate as much as humanly possible and still be incredibly insecure um about what I'm saying or like how it is received. Absolutely.
21:58
Just sitting with you for a few moments, I really feel like when you do describe what anxiety feels like. Yeah.
22:05
A lot of the time when people talk about anxiety, it sounds like that here. Uh-huh. Or it sounds like here.
22:08
Like, their chest is tight or they feel uncomfortable. Sure.
22:12
But when I hear you speak about it, you speak about it from here, which really helps because it's kind of like making sense. Yeah.
22:17
There was one lyric that stood out that I wanted to share with you.
22:19
I'll make it through the winter if it kills me.
22:23
I can make it faster if I hurry.
22:26
I'll angel in the snow until I'm worthy, but if it kills me, I tried. If it kills me.
22:31
And when I was There was a couple of lines in there that I wanted to kind of break down with you if that's okay. Yeah, no, please.
22:38
So, one was I'll make it through the winter if it kills me. Uh-huh.
22:43
And I was like, when do you feel like you're most in winter?
22:46
Like, when does it feel the coldest?
22:50
In the moments of me getting so riled up and so um panicked and freaked out about my career, my family, being a good friend.
23:04
Like when I'm just like really, really, really, really, really, I don't know, just coming for myself, to be honest.
23:10
I I never feel like I'm going to like stop.
23:12
Like I just always feel resilient. In a sick way, honestly.
23:16
In a way that has really, really, really helped me, but is crazy.
23:21
Sometimes I think about it and I'm very confused.
23:24
Like I genuinely don't know where it comes from or like what it is, but like I could be having the worst day of my life.
23:29
And I would still be like "Yeah, this sucks and like this is the worst day of my life and I feel like a terrible person and I feel like I've done something really, really horrible and I'm still not going to stop what I'm doing."
23:46
Not that behavior, I guess.
23:46
Like I'm still not going to stop like making music or doing the thing that I love.
23:52
And it's silly now in retrospect cuz I get it, like you're kids, you say dumb things.
23:55
But like I would like post these singing videos online when I was in high school and like all these girls would like go on Twitter and like say how terrible of a singer I was and how I was just so silly and I looked stupid.
24:06
And I remember that so, so well.
24:09
And I remember really hurting my feelings.
24:11
But at the same time I still kept posting videos.
24:16
It wasn't like it didn't hurt my feelings, but I was like, "You're not going to stop me from doing the thing that I love to do and that I want to do."
24:23
So Winter is always But Winter is resilient and so Angel as a whole is just full of resilience. Absolutely.
24:31
What what makes you feel worthy now?
24:36
I feel I feel worthy when the people around me are happy, which I guess is something inherently that's like, "Oh, that sucks.
24:44
Like I should feel worthy when I feel good about myself."
24:48
But I really do at this point in my life.
24:50
I feel I feel worthy when the people around me are happy and proud of me. Mhm.
24:54
If I feel like the people around me are happy and proud of me and they're okay, then I feel okay.
24:58
And that goes for like our like kind of like community and like fandom, too.
25:03
Like if they like things and they feel good, then I feel good.
25:10
And if they don't, then I don't feel good, which sucks.
25:12
I I know that's something I have to inevitably work on and find some sort of equilibrium to like be balanced and stuff, but right now it's really just like it sucks, but it's when other people are proud of me, then I am proud of myself.
25:28
I don't do well finding that internally. Mhm. Which is not ideal. Yeah.
25:34
Um but it is like what it is right now. Yeah. Yeah.
25:36
And And starting from where you are is the only thing you can do. So, Yeah.
25:40
being honest about that and knowing where it's at. Absolutely.
25:43
And it's interesting both times, even earlier when we were like, "You know, what are you proud that you have around you?"
25:47
You were like, "Yeah, the people."
25:49
And then even now it's like the people.
25:51
It's like, "Yeah, it's No, it really does go like Yeah. anything else. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
25:57
And there's something beautiful in that, and it's the idea that what makes you worthy is that those people choose to be in your life. Yeah.
26:04
Because they see you as worthy. Absolutely.
26:06
And that And it's like if you can just connect that dot, like it's like that, but it's hard.
26:09
But it But it takes a while.
26:11
It takes a while for all of us.
26:12
We've all been conditioned, whether it's everyone around me matters, everyone around me doesn't matter.
26:16
Like whichever way we are, we're all at some end of that spectrum. Yes.
26:20
What are the experiences in your life that you think have made you become resilient?
26:23
Like when did that When did you start to look at your life and go, "I've been through a lot of tough stuff." Yeah.
26:32
And that's built up resilience.
26:32
What were some of those events or What was a moment that you felt made you resilient? Yeah.
26:37
It's interesting Whenever I start to like again like compliment or or like like pat myself on the back in any sense of the word, I get so like my immediate like response, to be frank, was to be like, "Well, I've had a very easy and da da da da da and don't get me wrong, I have in many, many ways, but I think that I I feel like my resilience comes from like two different things.
27:02
A, like things that I actually go through.
27:03
B, things that like how I speak to myself.
27:09
I'm very resilient when it comes to how I speak to myself.
27:11
Like if I had the the inner monologue that I have that was from another human being, oh my gosh, like that would suck.
27:18
That would suck, but for whatever reason I keep pushing through and keep going and that doesn't really change that much. Like you keep going.
27:25
Like you keep going. But like situations like for instance, like so Snow Angel, which is like the single of this album and is now like the album title and everything, is something that I've like talked about for for months, really just being like, "Okay, this is a situation that happened to me and this is something that like I'll eventually talk about, but like I want you to like have
27:50
the song, sit with the song, interpret it in the way that you need and feel like it can like sit on you so that you have it because like the situation of that song, A, is something that I pray and doesn't, not something legit that everybody can like relate to in the sense that I went through it, which I'm very glad about, but like that was a huge moment of resilience for me. And even writing the song, I feel like
28:14
And even writing the song, I feel like was resilience.
28:16
And then in a way, holding back from then talking about it for a couple months was resilience.
28:23
So it shows up in my life in a lot of different ways, but for that specifically, it was January, maybe late January or early February of 2022 and I had just gone through like a breakup and it was really tough and it was like the first time I'd ever been really in love with someone and then experience like a breakup.
28:46
and I had always I'd been in relationships back to back for like 5 years.
28:50
So my like later teen years were all that.
28:52
And so this point I'm 22 and I started like having like freedom in my life kind of for the first time and I was living here in LA and I was like hanging out in a new group of people and they were like they were partiers and they like really sent it really sent it.
29:09
I like had heard from like my family and like my friends around me that like this isn't really like a good group we don't think for you and that's not to say that these are bad people cuz I I don't I don't believe that.
29:21
I think that people can do bad things and be so be good people sometimes.
29:30
So a couple of them but I was I was in this group of friends and we were just like sending it and it was the first time in my life where I wasn't working.
29:37
I was fresh out of this relationship.
29:38
relationship. I was just going there and I think that I had always had to like really like nail myself to the ground and I'd always been just so incredibly nervous and for the first time I just like didn't and I like really let my judgment go when it came to the people that were around me and we were all out and it was just situation after situation where they were just not trustworthy and then like the next thing you knew I was face
30:14
up like laying down in like a bathroom stall in a hotel um bar just waking up like 5:00 in the morning like completely alone and I woke up and I was like I was just so confused and I had like blood on my pants and I was really just like so caught off guard and I like looked down I had my phone and my purse and I looked down and I was completely alone in a bathroom stall and I looked at my phone and it was like 5:00 in the morning. I
30:39
I was like what happened?
30:40
was like, I was out at like a party with like my friends and I had missed two texts from two people that I was with at like 10:30 the night before, which was like 7 hours had gone by.
30:55
They were like, "Hey, I guess you left.
30:56
Like, we'll you know, see you when we see you."
30:58
And mind you, I was dating somebody in the group at that time.
31:02
And so, I didn't go to this place alone and I had like a boyfriend or a situation or whatever, somebody that I was at least with.
31:10
That just was nowhere to be found.
31:10
And so, I still have no idea what happened.
31:17
No clue what happened, but I was drugged and just like missing for like 7 hours.
31:26
And I stopped being friends with those people and stopped doing as much partying as I was and told my parents, told some of my friends and just kind of explained it in like a really matter-of-fact way.
31:43
And they were all very concerned and I didn't really even understand what was happening cuz again, I didn't recall anything that had happened.
31:50
And then a couple months later, we like really delve into it and like I kind of started to like have to like deal with everything that happened and was just crying and sobbing at and very confused and then resentful that it was friends that I was with.
32:05
But all that to say, then like a year later, we wrote Snow Angel and I had been saying to Alexander, who I did this whole album with, like, "I really want to write a song about this."
32:15
I'd recounted the situation so many times and after like the 10th time of telling like a group of people that you know through maybe just music sessions that you were like drugged and you have no idea what happened and you were like kind of into drugs at one point, but you don't really want to talk about it, but you do want to write a song about it.
32:36
And then just being like "The then you kind of stop wanting to write that song naturally.
32:41
So, I was like, "Okay, I guess I just won't write anything about this."
32:46
Um and then eventually Alexander like came back to me and was like, "I really want to write that song that you were talking me about and I think you and I should just do it together." And I was like, "Okay."
32:58
And then we started writing it and it was just the two of us and frankly the whole time we were writing it I felt nothing. Nothing.
33:03
Like I was explaining all this stuff and I was like, "Yeah, and you can like reference like the snow is whatever you want to reference it as and things like that."
33:11
And I felt nothing at all.
33:14
Until we like had recorded the song, the whole thing was done, and I played it for a bunch of my friends and my manager and everybody was like, "This is insane."
33:21
insane." But for me, that whole year of my life was inherent resilience because not only was I like fighting through an experience I have no idea what happened to me, lost friends, felt like I couldn't go out with anybody and trust anybody,
33:42
and then was like trying to explain the situation in a way that I understood it, but I didn't really understand it, and then wanted to write a song about it and wanted to write an album about it, but was also afraid to be judged for having something like that happen to me. But
33:53
But it's also like what did happen?
33:55
So, it was a whole thing.
33:59
Up until we decided to like name the album Snow Angel and have that be the song.
34:02
That to me was all resilience because I was just like kind of cold face like fighting through everything.
34:10
And I still don't really know how I feel about it.
34:12
I just know that I feel weird and very resilient. Mhm.
34:19
That's resilient for sure. Yeah, that's resilient. Yeah, for sure.
34:21
I mean, have you ever been able to piece anything together from the night or not at all? Like just nothing?
34:26
That's That must be so That's almost like so disconnecting from this stuff. Yeah. weird.
34:34
Yeah, I know I have no idea.
34:34
And I just stopped talking to the group people.
34:38
I was like, I don't I don't want to know what you know or don't or what you claim to know or don't know.
34:42
I just wanted to let it go. Yeah.
34:44
What what made you trust them in the first place that you now look back as a red flag and go, I should have been aware?
34:52
I really wanted to have fun.
34:55
I really wanted to have fun.
34:57
I had just gone through this breakup and I had just changed a lot of my life and I had just you know, become visible in like a different way in the career thing and I just wanted to like party and have a good time.
35:11
I didn't go to college and I didn't have that experience like to like let loose and just like chill.
35:18
And these were people that I saw were really partying too much to a point.
35:20
And I just I wanted to have fun and I wanted people who knew none of my friends, who knew nothing about my life, who didn't know my ex, who didn't know two exes ago, who knew nothing about me.
35:35
And I was just like fresh new into the group.
35:39
I don't know, it was just like it was exciting to have a group of people that just did not care about anything else other than partying.
35:49
Cuz I cared so much about everything else.
35:51
I wanted that like level of just like escape and not dealing with it.
35:53
And then I just escaped too far.
35:56
Yeah, how did they react when you kind of started to disconnect?
36:00
To be honest, like it wasn't a big deal.
36:03
Like it was it was nothing to them to lose a friendship like that.
36:14
It was It wasn't a big deal to them.
36:14
And that's you know, whatever, I guess.
36:16
The only time that I ever heard like anything was like when I started to like really release music and started getting more attention for it.
36:26
Somebody was like, "Hey, you know, I would love to talk to you about like the time da da da da da."
36:30
And I'm just like, no, you don't. Like, no, you don't. No, you don't.
36:36
And I feel like that person obviously I mean, you don't just disappear like randomly. You just don't. Mhm.
36:43
As far as I'm concerned, I could be way wrong and silly for thinking that, but um yeah, it wasn't a big deal to them. Mhm. It was just nothing.
36:51
And I've I've made peace with it to just be like, okay, if that is how you react to something like that happening to me, then you don't value my life, friendship, and safety um in the way that I would value yours.
37:07
So, as best we just part ways and then we just never really talked again. Mhm.
37:14
That's hard as well to like Yeah.
37:16
Yeah, how does that feel to you now?
37:19
Um I trust people really fast.
37:22
And then when I don't trust someone, I don't trust them. Mhm.
37:28
And I think it's very jarring for people around me um sometimes, but I'm good at letting go. Very good at letting go.
37:36
And I don't know if that's something that I'm really good at because I've been burned one too many times.
37:42
I mean, I would rather be like with my group of friends now and like not be at risk to like be left alone and hurt and have whatever happened happen than like be with those people. Yeah.
37:54
I think I'm doing like pretty good in my life where I don't really feel like I need that. Mhm.
38:02
And also the idea of like wanting to party and have fun is not a bad thing. Yeah.
38:07
But it's like, you know, it's like it's almost like it's so that wanting to have a great time and your intention is just like, "I've got through this breakup. I want to party. I want to have fun."
38:15
Like, that doesn't seem like a terrible thing. And so No.
38:18
And and I also I was worried about how my friends and people who were immediate in my life would like view me for then having all this stuff happen to be like, "Yeah, okay.
38:27
So, I was out with this group of people, X, Y, and Z happened, whatever."
38:33
I was very scared about how that would look. How did they respond?
38:35
They were at the time they were much more worried than I was aware of what was happening cuz I really just brushed it off. Mhm.
38:44
And honestly, I think I was just in like kind of like a fight or flight thing.
38:47
I was just like, "Okay, well, this happens, got to move on."
38:50
To be honest, the next weekend I went to Coachella.
38:51
Like, I was just like, "Okay, whatever."
38:52
Um my friends were very concerned and were really weirded out and were I guess talking like amongst each other more so than to me, but were really protective.
39:00
Did you feel like you had to move on fast in order so that people didn't take it too seriously cuz you wanted them to be okay with it and you didn't allow yourself to feel it?
39:10
Yeah, I also really didn't want to know what happened. Mhm.
39:17
I didn't want to find out what happened. And still, yeah? Nope.
39:19
Um and in a way, I kind of do cuz I also am like vengeful, to be honest, and I like in a way want to know like who let what uh you know, um but also I was just like, "Okay, move on."
39:38
Like, I don't want anybody to see me sweat in that way cuz then that would be admitting that something Mhm.
39:41
that actually did happen to me.
39:43
And I've never had anything specifically like that happen to me before and I thought it was a very like a a long shot of an idea.
39:52
Like, that's something you hear about happening to like girls and people out who like get drugged and things like that and that's not ever something that would happen to me. Mhm.
40:01
Um so, I just I wanted to move past it Yeah. quickly.
40:05
Yeah, it's that denial as well of like, "Yeah, I don't want to get that." Absolutely.
40:09
How has that changed your way of now having fun and being able to go out and being able to trust?
40:12
Like, how has that impacted I have better friends now.
40:14
Tell me about that group.
40:16
Yeah, I'm very I'm very lucky.
40:21
I have good people in my life.
40:21
I also am really I think I'm a more like honest version of myself.
40:27
Like if I don't trust someone, they will know.
40:31
And odds are they won't really be around me.
40:33
But also like I used to want everybody to be my friend so badly.
40:35
And don't get me wrong, I still kind of do.
40:40
But I like I wanted everyone's approval in a in the worst way when it came to a friend group.
40:45
I don't necessarily feel like that anymore. Yeah.
40:48
I feel like I got taken advantage of, obviously, a lot in many ways.
40:50
But now I don't really feel like that happens to me as much.
40:54
Yeah, it's almost like how far are we willing to go away from ourselves to get someone else's approval?
41:02
Oh my god, I would have ran to the ends of the earth. Yeah.
41:05
Once you made that song Uh-huh.
41:07
How did as you were saying you were trying to put it in and you were trying to get your team finally Alexander, you said?
41:13
Yeah, finally like, you know, understood and was listening and how did it then feel to put that out there in the world to then obviously you've talked about it with your family, your friends, and now for everyone to hear it. How did that feel?
41:25
It was honestly weird for the first couple months cuz I was like I what I wanted was for the song to live on its own and have its own kind of existence without my experience attached to it.
41:44
So that people could take it in in a way that they weren't listening to the song and feeling like pity for me in a way.
41:50
I wanted everybody to have their own experience with it.
41:55
Cuz again, this is a very specific song. Sure.
41:58
I also, however, would find myself like getting so frustrated like wanting to like talk about it and just like blurt it out before I was like fully like not ready to, but like before I was ready to like actually like make this like, "Okay, this is a thing. Now the album is out."
42:16
It was like a weird back and forth.
42:18
Cuz also I'm still very like angry from the situation.
42:20
As much as I want to like move past it and push past, it would it would just float between like I really like nobody knowing what this is about.
42:30
And also like I want revenge.
42:34
Like you know what I mean?
42:34
And and revenge for me is just like talking about it, I guess.
42:38
But yeah, it went it went both ways.
42:41
I am however really really really glad that people got to sit with it and take their kind of experiences with it.
42:46
But it was really interesting seeing people's interpretations of the song.
42:51
Because somebody was like, "Oh my god, yeah, when it's cold outside it's brutal."
42:54
And I was like, "Yeah, girl.
42:57
Like that is amazing that you feel that way."
42:59
I was like, "Art really is subjective."
43:03
Yeah, it was weird for a minute. It was so weird.
43:04
Have you ever had people reach out to you and talk tell you about their experiences of similar things happening or Nobody has and not that I've seen anything.
43:13
Well, cuz I don't even feel like I it's really suggested incredibly in the song, but um unless you like know. Mhm. Um you won't know. Yeah, you won't know.
43:22
But I have however had um had a couple people talk to me about like their own experience with because these are people who have been through some sort of like drug or alcohol-related like thing or what have you and been like, "Hey, like I really really like this song for my own reason."
43:41
And I've been in and out of XYZ situation and this has been really helpful for me.
43:46
And there have been a couple times where like obviously I haven't like said anything, but like you know when you're talking to somebody and you're like not saying exactly what it is, but like you can kind of both tell in each other's eyes that there's like something much deeper happening than what you're both saying.
44:02
It's that kind of like camaraderie and like I see you without like saying it. Yes, absolutely.
44:10
Which has been really comforting.
44:12
It's sad that you can connect on that or understand each other, but but at least you feel understood and held in that moment. Totally.
44:19
Thank you for sharing that with us.
44:20
I mean, it's like it's just it's just I mean, you know, I think that whenever we go through things go through things where we don't have control and we don't have consciousness even you know, what to speak of control, it's it it's so disconnecting from the self because you are disconnected from a from a period of time from yourself.
44:39
What have been the things today that you feel connect you to yourself?
44:44
Like what are the things that you love to do that make you kind of, you know, smile and laugh and, you know, bring joy to you?
44:51
I am I love talking to people.
44:54
I love I'm I'm such a like extroverted introvert.
44:57
I I really like I relating is my favorite thing in the whole world.
45:03
And and whether it's like actually relating or having someone else or myself feel understood even if it's not necessarily relating, I love that. I love writing songs.
45:12
Writing songs is my greatest weapon in this life.
45:18
It's my favorite thing in the whole wide world.
45:19
And I also honestly the thing that I like love most in my life right now is like I love watching my little brother grow up.
45:25
That's kind of like a complete segue, but yeah, he's like he's only a couple years younger than me, but he's like totally my baby.
45:34
And so I'm like really trying to like cherish watching him like grow up. So, yeah.
45:39
Again, it's like the all the like people connections.
45:41
I'm like, I love the people in my life very much. Yeah.
45:43
Yeah, my my youngest sister's like 5 years younger than me, and so I remember like when she was born, I remember holding her, and she's getting married in a month, and she's 30 years old 31 now, and it's just like such a you know, it's I feel the same way.
46:00
Like she's like my baby and my baby's getting married.
46:04
Like it's it's a it's a crazy feeling. It's insane. Yeah.
46:07
Is it Were you like a like a like an emotionally That's kind of an invasive question, I guess, but were you like an emotionally available older sibling uh so older sibling?
46:14
I have a really good relation with my sister and like she sees me that way as well and so yeah, definitely. I would say I was. Good. Good.
46:22
And I would say that as she got older though, I kind of intentionally I wouldn't say distance myself, Yeah.
46:26
but I intentionally gave her space to build up those skills herself.
46:30
And so I started I'm not doing that with my brother.
46:34
Well, you still have time.
46:34
I'm not doing I'm like, Charles, how do you feel about everything?
46:38
That's actually very smart.
46:39
Yeah, I just realized over time where it was like I didn't want her to wait to wake up one day if I wasn't around or whatever it was or even right now I live across, you know, the world.
46:50
The idea that she didn't have the tools and skills herself.
46:52
And I was really trying to help her build those tools and skills herself and I'm really proud that she's been able to do that and it's taken years of doing that.
47:02
But it's almost like I wish it's almost like when, you know, when you first start riding a bike you have the stabilizers and your parent push the bike. Yeah.
47:09
And then your parent stop holding onto the bike and you just have the stabilizer and maybe fall off and then you put the stabilizer and then they get taken off, but it isn't like your parent like pushing you on a bike like when you're 21 years old and so I feel like it with mentorship, with coaching, with anyone that I work with like the goal's always like how do they develop the tools themselves? cool.
47:28
What what kind of tools do you think you're you're wanting to pass on or what are the lessons that god.
47:34
Cuz there's only a two-year gap, so Yeah.
47:36
You're like accelerating your learning. god, I know.
47:38
I I like I really want God, my brother is so much like me in my like worst and best ways.
47:45
I just want him to like not beat himself up so much.
47:48
I went through so I Granted, I'm telling you that I still absolutely do.
47:53
I don't however to the extent that I used to.
47:55
I used to beat myself up into bad bad places. I It was tough.
48:01
Like I Again, like I couldn't sit with myself.
48:05
I couldn't say to something that I was proud of cuz it would be every thought I had would be met with something else I didn't do.
48:14
Um and I really want that for him.
48:16
Really really badly cuz I don't I don't want I don't want anybody to beat themselves up the way that I beat myself up, Jesus Christ.
48:23
It was It might It was exhausting.
48:25
I can tell you firsthand, it's very exhausting.
48:29
Nobody Nobody else should really have to go through that, I don't think.
48:30
What age was that do you think you were like the harshest critic? Oh my god.
48:34
I mean, I feel like it honestly just started To be honest, when I started doing music and when I got signed like in June of 2022, my life changed a ton. Mhm. A ton.
48:45
Because also, I was working in uh environment with a bunch of people who were choosing to be there and choosing to show up for me and choosing to help support and and and foster the thing that I wanted so badly.
49:00
And I felt like I had big support.
49:05
Like I felt like I had big guns behind me, which was a huge huge boost of confidence and also made me want to work really hard to prove to everybody that believed in me and was investing time and and money, let's be clear, into me um that I was worth it.
49:20
And I don't know, I just felt really like uplifted.
49:23
And I hadn't really felt that in a lot of like working situations before.
49:28
I felt like everybody actually really cared what I had to say Mhm.
49:31
for the first time and I had never felt that specifically in work. Never.
49:35
So, it was really nice to have that. Wow. Yeah.
49:40
Yeah, it's it's amazing, isn't it?
49:42
It's like we're we're constantly looking again for that external just kind of stimulus.
49:45
Just make me Yeah, and then it's hard and it's Always.
49:49
It's we're so programmed that way.
49:52
I write music for a living.
49:54
Like I make songs for a living for people to listen to.
49:56
Like you know what I mean?
49:58
Like in a way that's inherently that.
50:00
And that's not to say that I don't do it for myself at all. I absolutely do. But like you know. Yeah.
50:05
I go to a concert to perform not for people to not have fun Yeah. and not enjoy it. Yeah.
50:12
What do you think that when you were obviously you didn't you didn't go to college because you were trying to you know get into the industry.
50:20
You were just saying that when you were young you wanted to you know figure out the Disney thing or figure out this thing or whatever it may be. Yes, absolutely.
50:26
Like imagine you were sitting with 10-year-old Rene right now. Mhm.
50:35
What does she need to hear?
50:37
I similar to have lived with a lot of years of beating myself up.
50:45
I used to just live with this like inherent like guilt and regret like the cloud over me. Like just in a big way.
50:54
And I used to think that like oh I would tell my younger self to do like this and this and this better or like this and this and this or da da da da da.
50:59
I am now like really deciding to like not regret any of it.
51:03
That's not to say that I don't want to hold myself accountable for things that I've done that aren't great or for things that I inevitably will do that are not good um or that you know don't serve myself or other people.
51:16
That's a separate conversation.
51:16
This is more about I'm really so incredibly proud of like such a lively spunky monstrous little like 10-year-old girl who was so fearless. So fearless.
51:27
Like I was a rambunctious kid. I was crazy.
51:29
I was inviting everybody in the neighborhood to my concerts on the fireplace.
51:34
I was forcing people to come and listen to me sing.
51:39
I was screaming for people to pay attention to me.
51:44
And I'm really really glad that I did that.
51:46
And I I would just say like do everything how you feel like you're going to.
51:50
And when you mess up, just listen to yourself that you've you've messed up. Yeah.
51:55
I would honestly just say like everything she did was great.
51:58
Happy to be here in in, you know, failures and in wins.
52:02
You've talked about being so self-aware and you can hear it when you're, you know, when I'm talking to you today.
52:07
I'm like there's there's such an awareness of who you are.
52:10
There's such an awareness of True.
52:12
who you are, what you're feeling.
52:12
At this stage in your life, what are you hoping to unlearn for the future and learn for the future?
52:17
If there was one thing you had to unlearn that you've developed and if there was one thing you had to learn, what would you say they are?
52:23
I would say something that I would like to learn is how to like I'm I'm so hyper aware of when I do this in situations and I try so hard not to.
52:35
Whenever someone is talking about something that they've experienced with somebody else, like if somebody has hurt their feelings, right?
52:41
Like if my best friend is talking to me about someone who has hurt them Mhm.
52:44
or harmed them or done them wrong in the smallest or biggest sense of the word, all I can think in my brain is like when have I done that in my life?
52:55
And just start like spiraling down this like I remember when I did that to so-and-so and like I need to call this person and be like I am so sorry for what I put you through when we were like four.
53:03
Like, you know what I mean? Yeah.
53:04
And I really would like to not center myself in what somebody else is talking about.
53:08
And it's not at least it's not consciously a selfish thing.
53:13
Like I'm not actively trying to make my friend's grievance about myself. Totally. It's just automatic.
53:20
and I hate it cuz then I'm also like, "Oh my god, now I'm not as present with like my friend who's being so sweet and vulnerable with me."
53:25
Um and now I'm doing a disservice to her by by not, you know, listening to her fully and and being so hyper conscious of like how I've acted or how I could have possibly showed up that way.
53:39
I really want to unlearn that.
53:40
I'm trying so hard not to do that. I hate when I do that.
53:42
Um Granted, if I just keep beating myself up for it, then I'm going to do it for the rest of my life, and then I'm never going to like give myself grace for it.
53:51
Um something that I want to Oh, I guess that's kind of learning and unlearning.
53:56
Another thing that I want to like learn or unlearn, I need a little more like internal patience. Mhm.
53:59
I need internal patience.
54:02
I need internal patience and external judgment. Mhm. Really quick.
54:06
Like I really need a lot of internal patience.
54:08
I also need to like not give people who have hurt me or done me wrong as much slack.
54:15
Like it's okay to like say that like no, thank you.
54:21
I'm good at like being done when I'm done, but it takes me a second. Right.
54:27
Like I think like with that group of friends, like I should have taken maybe two things that happened before I ended up like face up, you know, before that.
54:37
Yeah, it doesn't need to get to that extreme. Correct. Correct. Those are great answers. Those are great answers.
54:40
How have you How have you kind of navigated the the You know, again, we're talking about change.
54:45
You've talked about before like I think you were struggling with an eating disorder when you were 10.
54:51
You've talked obviously about how you've had the you know, the gray area of your sexuality, like figuring that out.
54:55
Like how have you got comfortable navigating like the gray?
54:59
When it comes to like eating disorders, I think at least and this is not necessarily everyone else's opinion, but how I perceive it myself is eating disorders are something that you are always going to deal with and always going to have, right?
55:16
And this is not to compare it to alcoholism cuz it is in no way the same or different or whatever.
55:23
It's not a comparison, but it is to say that like with alcohol, you can decide to put yourself in situations where there is going to be alcohol there or not or like you are going to decide whether to drink or not.
55:36
you are never going to decide whether you can eat or not. You have to. You have to.
55:41
And again, that is not to like put down or make little of alcoholism or any sort of struggle like that.
55:49
My dad has been sober my whole life, but is an alcoholic.
55:54
Um and this is something we talk about constantly and try to better understand each other.
55:58
It's hard with an eating disorder.
55:59
That is just constantly going to be around you.
56:01
You have to eat to survive.
56:03
Um so that's a constant gray area for me.
56:06
I feel like I talk about it every day.
56:08
So it's always just like, how did I do with it today?
56:13
Or how am I going to do with it tomorrow? mindset.
56:14
It's like living in a gray area, which is really frustrating, cuz I think to myself a lot like I would love for this to be gone.
56:20
But it is just not something that I'm never going to deal with.
56:24
If I want to continue to be alive, I'm going to be eating.
56:29
And I'm going to have food around me, and that's going to make me feel crazy some days and out of control and insecure and really proud of myself and in full control other days.
56:41
So there's a gray area with that constantly.
56:46
When it comes to like sexuality, that's a whole other gray area, but like at least for me, I over the last like six or seven months have become less gray, at least right now.
57:01
But I think I at least this is going to sound so silly, but like I try to and granted, this is also very easy for me to say, cuz like I am a queer person who like is still at the end of the day like a white woman and is cisgender and like I also am bisexual, so like I'm going to be in heteronormative relationships inevitably, just based off of being bisexual, potentially.
57:25
I think for me, it is easy to say, but I try to like view like the gray area or times when I'm like struggling for like a label if I don't feel like I'll go through conversations with like my like girlfriend constantly of I'll be like I actually feel incredibly not bisexual right now.
57:45
Like and it's it's silly, but there are things we talk about all the time both of us with each other.
57:47
And I'm just going to try to view it as like a little pink area. Like it's all good. It's all cool. It's pink. It's good.
57:55
It's good whatever it is.
57:55
Like if I one day feel like this label or whatever or lack thereof does not suit me, then that's great and that does not suit me.
58:05
I'm very fortunate to be able to make that decision and have that not affect my life in an incredibly massive way.
58:09
A lot of other people are not, but I view it as a little pink area. It's just good.
58:18
I'm trying not to be so angry with myself about it.
58:21
I struggled to like want a a rhyme and a reason and a label and a season to make sense every single day. And I'm just not there. Yeah.
58:32
And I don't think a lot of people are, so I think it's fine.
58:34
Like straight people at least as far as I'm concerned don't like wake up every day and are like, "Oh my god, what level of straight am I today?"
58:43
And then if you are one of those people, you're likely queer. So, you know. Yeah. Yeah.
58:46
We're so hardwired to be like you have to choose an answer. Oh, yeah.
58:52
whether it was school, whether it was parents it was like there was always one right answer.
58:55
You had to figure it out.
58:56
There were no other options. There was no gray. Yeah.
58:59
You're either right or wrong. Yes.
59:00
And so I think we still live in the right or wrong.
59:01
And so it's really hard to be like, "Well, if I don't have the right answer, I must have the wrong answer."
59:07
But I know this isn't wrong because it's how I feel.
59:08
So, then how do I make it right? And it's so confusing. And so I love the pink. I love the pink. Yeah, that's great. is a little pink area.
59:16
I'm just chilling in the pink. It's nice. I love it.
59:23
Renee, you've been so vulnerable, so gracious, so kind with your time today.
59:27
I'm so grateful to get to know you today and thank you for letting us into your mind.
59:30
You know, I really feel when I was sitting with you today, I was like, you really just kind of opened up your mind and and let us walk in and I appreciate that because Thank you.
59:39
it's hard to do that and I felt like you opened up some cupboards and some drawers and some, you know.
59:42
Uh but Renee, we end every On Purpose episode with a fast five. Uh-huh.
59:48
These final five have to be answered in one word to one sentence maximum. Okay.
59:52
I may ask you to expand and I'll let you know.
59:54
All right, so Renee, these are your final five or fast five.
59:56
Question one, what is the best advice you've ever heard or received?
1:00:00
Integrity over everything. Mhm. Okay, great. Okay.
1:00:05
Second question, what is the worst advice you've ever heard or received?
1:00:09
I'll just stop trying to care. Mhm.
1:00:12
My god, I used to hear that all the time growing up. God.
1:00:15
Yeah, you are going to care.
1:00:17
I'm like, are you kidding me?
1:00:17
No, I care more cuz I care about not caring. Ridiculous.
1:00:22
Oh god, that's a good one.
1:00:24
We've never had that on the show before like that.
1:00:25
All right, question number three, what's a part of yourself that you're most deeply trying to love?
1:00:31
This is very two things for me.
1:00:31
First first and foremost, my mistakes, things that I've done that I don't agree with, the things that I've done that I'm not proud of.
1:00:38
I'm trying to like make peace with them, I guess, is a better word and do better from them.
1:00:42
And second, like honestly, is is somebody like with incredible incredible, you know, lengths of difficulty of eating disorders, like my like body and like the like skin that I like live in and like my like that that I just like operate in. Very, very hard for me. So hard for me. Mhm. Yeah, thank you.
1:01:03
Okay, question number four, what's something that you think people value but you don't really value?
1:01:13
Keeping it cool all the time. Uh interesting.
1:01:15
I'm very pro and and this is just who I am and I guess maybe how I was raised or how I work, I'm not sure.
1:01:23
I I love to just like let your emotions get the best of themselves sometimes.
1:01:25
I think that's really important. At least it is for me.
1:01:30
I'm very very anti keep it in and deal with it and like try to regulate your emotions.
1:01:37
I think that like if you need them to be big in a way, let them be big in a way that feels like safe and and careful for like yourself and the people you're around.
1:01:47
Cuz if not, then that's just so stupid.
1:01:50
I was I was shamed for so many years of my This is not a short answer.
1:01:54
I was shamed for so many years of my life for being so hyper-emotional and crying so much and like getting angry so fast.
1:01:59
Um and that is something I just I don't value the like being quiet and like the controlling your emotions and keeping things at bay.
1:02:11
I value like being very true to how you feel, whether that's a good feeling or not. That's powerful. Yeah.
1:02:17
That's And how have you found a way of doing that in a way that it doesn't You said You said a statement you were like to be mindful of like You didn't say mindful, but you said to be aware of how it affects yourself and people you love.
1:02:28
Like how do you kind of get that?
1:02:29
Because sometimes, like you said, an emotion could be so big and so real and so visceral, but then how do you kind of Yeah.
1:02:37
How have you found a way to do that?
1:02:38
Or at least how are you trying to find a way to do that?
1:02:40
I have in beating myself up less, I'm not like a physical danger to myself, um which is great cuz I used to like get really really really angry and like I would like, you know, so many people do.
1:02:56
I don't know like what it is or what it isn't.
1:02:58
My dad and I have talked about this at length because he said he did the same thing as as as I did as a kid.
1:03:03
But like I would either like like bang my head against the wall or like like hit my arms or things like that or like tweak out or freak out.
1:03:11
And the more I've stopped like beating myself up for it and the more I've just been like, "Oh, these are just things that I feel, and I feel in a really big way."
1:03:19
And the more I'm around people who allow me to feel in a big way, the less I hurt myself. Mhm. Mhm.
1:03:24
The less I like feel the need to like bang my head against a wall.
1:03:29
I feel like if I'm around somebody who's like, "Oh, this is upsetting you.
1:03:34
That's okay that that's that upsets you."
1:03:36
I don't even get to that point.
1:03:37
So, for me it's about like the company I keep and the things that people are saying to me.
1:03:42
Um That being said, I also know that like certain people in my life, like my mom, for instance, is the greatest.
1:03:52
My mom does not like to see me incredibly upset all the time.
1:03:55
And that's not to say she can't deal with me upset, but that is to say that I'm an adult, and I know that I don't want to put my mother through turmoil every day by calling her and telling the telling her the 10 things that upset me, because she lives 3,000 miles away from me and will panic.
1:04:12
You know, so it's like it's about going to the right people.
1:04:14
And I go to her, of course, but like not in a way that is going to upset her or or hurt her day, cuz I, you know, she's my mama, but yeah.
1:04:26
Yeah, I think the company you keep is important.
1:04:28
Fifth and final question. Okay.
1:04:30
If you could create We ask this to every single guest who's ever been on.
1:04:34
If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be? What's a lore? A law. What is that? A law. A law. Sorry, my accent. My accent. A law. What is a law? Folklore. No, no, no. A law. That is the right law. A law. A law. No, no, no. No, say law. I like it.
1:04:52
Um What is one law or lore that I would like everybody to follow?
1:05:00
I grew up in North Carolina. I grew up in the South.
1:05:01
Like, I would love like a law where everybody was just like not so um hateful.
1:05:09
Personally, I would love that.
1:05:09
The town that I grew up in, like you drive right out of the neighborhood and that's like a dangerous place for like friends of mine to be in.
1:05:17
I would love if we just like maybe weren't like incredibly hateful. That's a good look. Mhm. Rene Rapp, everyone. Snow Angel.
1:05:27
I'm so grateful to have your time and energy and Oh, thanks.
1:05:29
I know everyone's going to be streaming more and more and I can't wait to Thanks.
1:05:32
have you back on years from now and to learn more about what you've unlearned, what you've learned, what you've gained, wisdom along the way. Love.
1:05:39
And tell me about your brother, too.
1:05:40
Oh my god, he's the cutest. Thanks. Thanks. it. Rene, thank you so much.
1:05:43
And everyone who's been listening or watching, make sure that you tag Rene and I with the things that stood out to you, the words that came from her that meant something to you.
1:05:51
Maybe you've had similar experiences or things you've been through that you want to share back with us.
1:05:56
Please do tag both of us across TikTok, Instagram, and across any social media platform that you're using to make sure that we see it.
1:06:02
Rene, thank you so much again. Thank you. You're the sweetest.
1:06:05
Oh my god, such a sweetheart. Thank you. you. Such a pleasure. Thank you. Appreciate it.
1:06:09
If you love this episode, you'll enjoy my conversation with Meghan Trainor on breaking generational trauma and how to be confident from the inside out.
1:06:19
My therapist told me stand in the mirror naked for 5 minutes.
1:06:21
It was already tough for me to love my body, but after the C-section scar with all the stretch marks, now I'm looking at myself like I've been hacked.
1:06:28
But day three when I did it, I was like, "You know what? Her thighs are cute."