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Better late than never, but right on time.
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That's how I feel about getting a chance to finally do this and talk to you. I'm so happy to see you.
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I'm so happy to be here, Zane. Thanks for having me.
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Oh, it's such a pleasure.
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Thank you for all the amazing music and the truth and the honesty that you pour into it.
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And thank you for this remarkable new album.
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We've got a lot to talk about. Yeah.
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>> [laughter] >> It feels real, huh?
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I can tell by the way that you're sitting and edging and moving around like, "Oh, It's actually a thing now." >> It's a thing. It took so long to make.
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I can tell you had a I mean, it's a lifetime's worth of work that's gone into this album, isn't it? It's a lot.
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It's taken every blood cell.
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I'm honestly exhausted, both mentally and physically.
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Not in a bad way, just in the way of if I've not been on a stage, I've been pouring into this body of work in some way, shape, or form.
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Um and I'm so Yeah, I also took on the task of wanting to EP write all of it lyrically and melodically from the top line perspective, and work with a plethora of just incredible musicians and big bands and string sections and orchestras.
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And like, there's just been a labor of absolute passion and love.
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>> I want that as a fan of music.
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If you've got If you've got it in you and you want to say it, you want to bring it to life, and you want me to be immersed, I'll go there. Your fans will go there.
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There's a few roads you could have gone down once >> Right.
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you had proof of concept >> Right. >> on the last album. >> Right.
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You could have followed up quickly. Here's between the eyes.
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I feel like, you know, "Husband" was a little bit of that.
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Like, "I'm going to smack you.
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I know exactly what you want."
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Um but that really was like there to keep us company while you were trying to figure this out.
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It's almost like a like a like a like a sort of distraction over here.
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Like, enjoy this cuz you're not even This is I've got something that's out of control going on here.
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How important was confidence towards making this body of work?
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The realizing, "You know what? I know this is mine now.
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No one can take it away from me.
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It works for me, and I can go and make these grand statements I know I have in me to make."
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Yeah, I think probably part of probably subconsciously there's a kind of rebellion in there of the former model of which I existed for so many years. >> Yeah.
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Of, you know, everything being so simple and so minimal.
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And you know, having done a serious amount of time um if I do say so myself, owning the songwriting craft from a songwriter's perspective.
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Um you know, turning up as a songwriter in a studio with another artist.
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And I'm just there [clears throat] Yeah.
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to help craft what what's what the song is we need to craft.
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And And um you know, it being like to brief.
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It needs to be this long. It needs to be this BPM.
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It needs to be this and that, you know.
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And And that That was a lot of my life. A miserable Mhm. existence for me. Mhm.
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So, I think there's a subconscious rebellion that has occurred in this body of work of um being told also for so many years, "You don't know who you are.
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You need to pick a sound."
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>> you keep telling me to go in with people I don't know and write top lines in a day.
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So, how do you expect me to possibly define myself for you unless I have the space to do that?
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>> It's that, and then it's also a mixture of the fact that like I'm not just one thing.
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I've grown up with many different cultures. >> Yeah.
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You know, I've got a white dad and a a black mom.
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And we've we're from many different places.
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My whole you know, identity is is not one thing.
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So, how can you ask me to decide with my whole chest to choose one thing?
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I've just never been that kind of artist or person.
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Um so, I had a really hard time for so many years trying to like, you know, be something that I wasn't that I've I think in this record embraced maximalism and expressing and exploring in any genre that I felt I wanted to.
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If it felt right to go into a little big band swing section from a, you know, a more hip-hop led whatever I don't know what What even is genres nowadays?
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>> Well, listening to this album, it's just you.
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I mean, you summed it up beautifully.
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We really understand when we listen to this album now who you are at this point in your life and the journey you've been on to get there.
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There's so much to dive into across the subject matter of this.
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It's not just getting to know you artistically, but also you tell your life story through this album.
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I mean, it's so personal and so honest and so amazing.
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But I've never had a chance to talk to you about it.
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So, I want to address this up front.
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How important was that statement that you made for the internet and the world to see in terms of in terms of breaking that spell of people having control over you?
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And what really ultimately urged you to want to take it to a point of of I've had enough, and I'm not going to sit in this in this room anymore.
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The internet will break me out of this room. [laughter] You know? Well, do you know what?
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The best case scenario that could have happened happened in that moment.
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But in that moment, I was You know, I think there's a certain kind of like, you know, resilience you have to have to choose to be an artist or a songwriter or anything in the arts. >> 100%. Right?
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>> You're out of the matrix.
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You're no longer in the comfort of capitalism, man.
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You've got to make it >> You've got to go, hustle, knock the doors, sleep but no sleep on the, you know. >> Yeah.
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And um but after doing that for 10 7 years in that specific label system that I was in, it for me was a breaking point of I'll just be a songwriter for the rest of my life. Like, I can't do so.
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>> was almost like you were giving up.
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It was almost like you made that statement saying, "I'm done. I'm cooked." >> Wow.
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Well, the the risk the great risk was that, you know, you have me in a contract.
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You're I'm binding in a contract. >> You know.
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>> And it's a petty business. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. It really is.
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>> you piss the wrong person off.
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They're like, "Oh, you don't like where you are now?
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Well, let's see where how you feel in 10 years." Sitting still. >> [laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah.
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Um and I'm just so fortunate that um I think it's a mixture of different things, you know.
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I gained a lot of like attention in the UK.
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People started contacting me for interviews.
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And it was a very beautiful moment for me.
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For the first time, I felt like I had some sort of power over my future.
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>> [sighs and gasps] >> And I was able to kind of pretty explicitly say, you know, you know, I'm going to really go on I'm going to take every interview.
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And I'm going to tell every gory detail.
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Or we can do we can do this easy way or the hard way.
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>> [laughter] >> It's called leverage.
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I I just feel now I've got some. I [laughter] love it. >> great feeling.
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And I'm very lucky they let me go as well.
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And it was clean and da da da. >> Yeah. But guess what?
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It doesn't It doesn't mean the same unless you go on to to use that freedom to create something that's truly you that connects. And boy, did you.
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I mean, it was the ultimate win, you know?
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It was like, "I got my freedom.
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And now all those things that you didn't realize you had that were sitting there waiting for you? I got them. They're mine."
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>> a really good feeling. That was a great time. Amazing.
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Um Well, thank you for answering that.
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You know, the success was was very sweet for everyone who's who's listened to your music for a long time and and seen you get to that point.
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Um And you know, when did it really hit you that that this that, you know, you didn't have to consider the concept of giving up or being a songwriter for hire anymore?
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And that actually this was a pathway you could stay on as long as you want.
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Was there Has there been a moment of realization?
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Um Well, I think the second we became independent.
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And you know, I was aware that um we were in this fresh slate clean slate kind of place.
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Um but also it was a you know, therapy had to occur.
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I mean, a lot of healing had to occur.
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And you know, and yeah, it's it's not It wasn't a simple you know, it wasn't a simple time. Um and when I >> Mhm.
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Yeah, when we came out the other side, it was a lot of, you know, soul-searching.
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Then it was kind of like trying to find you know, put together a body of work in this fragmented very fragmented way.
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A lot of songs from a lot of years past.
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And New thoughts from therapy and new realizations and things like that. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
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>> But also old songs that I've had just been in my Dropbox that I was just like, "This is I really love this song.
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And I want to put my name on it and put it out."
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Like, "Oscar Winning Tears" is like a 8-year-old song.
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Like, it was And I was like, "Please, I love this." No. No. No. No.
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It was just so it was it was And then you kind of go in your head and you're like, "All right.
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Well, we've got nothing to lose."
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It was literally me, my dad, and um uh we found a distribution company.
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The one literally the only place that would take and and it would take my album as was and like support me on this journey.
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Every label I tried to see like, "Would you be down to be cuz I'm like, how are we going to do this?
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You know, I I don't know what being independent is."
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I wasn't even considering that at first.
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I was kind of maybe hoping for the idea of a new home.
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Or And it was just like, "No. No.
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We like Ray, but we don't this music would need to go again."
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It was just so much like wall after wall.
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And I was just like, "What am I doing wrong?"
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So, we just kind of, you know, we found this great distribution company called Human Resources.
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And this amazing guy called Jay Irving.
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And we literally mastered the songs, recorded them a lot of them in my living room at home.
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This is album one, you know.
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>> [clears throat] >> Put it together, put it out.
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And song one, song two came out.
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And it was a real air of like, you know, there was a very small fan base who cared.
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But the UK music industry was, you know, very like Ray's done. Like, Ray's over.
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It was very that >> It's so mad. It's so mad. It's so mad. Yeah.
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So, "Escapism" was just like game-changing for me.
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And that that helped to just start everything off really for me as a solo as an independent artist.
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So many beautiful things about that story.
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I mean, you know, not least of all the fact that you achieved that in a family environment.
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And you know, you get to share it with your family.
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You get to keep the business in house.
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You get to share the rewards. >> Yeah.
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Um and there's an element and a level of trust there that um it obviously been lacking from an industry-wide point of view up to that moment.
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Has it been challenging for you as you become successful to trust that success and trust the people who then want to give you opportunities and offers because for the longest time you know, you it was just going the wrong way.
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Um I think you know, I think because we have a very small family team, you know, my my parents are our managers, my sisters are also incredible artists and we have a very lovely tight knit tiny lovely team of of mostly girls and dad and my creative director Mikey.
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It's a very small and lovely, so I just trust my my team.
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Trust is is the most valuable thing I think this industry can show you just how many lies and pictures it can paint, how many dreams it can sell, you know, just you hear everything.
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I've heard everything under the sun.
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Like from the age of 16 like you know, being in a room with one of the biggest people in the game, not naming names, but you know, I'm 16 years old and it's like this huge artist has agreed to endorse you, you know, like someone I'm a huge fan of.
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You know, all you need to do is just sign this contract.
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Like it's just like and you're there like and you're just being toyed with and you're just you know, it's a real roller coaster of just absolute BS, you know, which this industry can really be and put you through, especially as a young girl who doesn't know any better and just wants to be a flipping singer. Yeah. You know. >> Yeah.
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So I think having gone through and learned some of the toughest lessons now it's just my little team. Yeah.
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And I like it that way and I trust everyone in it and we've got each other's backs and it's safe and that's a really nice feeling.
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Well, that first feeling that made you want to be an artist and a singer in the first place is within arms reach because the people who were there when you made that decision are right next to you still. Right.
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And I've seen that so many times with artists who forget what that feeling was like on that roller coaster because their family is 15,000 miles away or whatever. Yeah.
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And it feels like that's a lifetime ago. >> Yeah. It can be really tough. >> be really tough. Yeah.
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You don't get to make a body of work like this unless you feel safe. I like that.
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Yeah, I think you're right. Yeah.
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>> Because because the where you're going as a storyteller here is so detailed and so personal and so beautiful yet somehow I still feel like I'm a part of your story. So thank you.
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It's a it's a wonderful line you've walked on this record. I receive that. Thank you, Zane. That's really kind.
12:32
Um, it starts with an intro, girl under the gray cloud.
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Seven [laughter] Negronis deep.
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Seven Negronis Seven Negronis.
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>> [laughter] >> If I had seven Negronis, I'd be deep somewhere. >> deep somewhere. I'd be deep somewhere. They'd be digging me up.
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I mean, that's a that's a strong ass drink.
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That's a start of the night drink, not the end of [laughter] the night drink.
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What are you talking about?
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Um, and it starts in a in a way that I can only assume is truth and it begins with truth.
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So what are you So So what's happening in that in that intro?
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Well, I'm on my own in Paris, seven Negronis deep sat at some lovely chic bar. Mhm.
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Um, and I'm just on my own and it's kind of mixture of just just a load of just emotions that I thought I would have overcome by now and that just I'm like looking at myself like are we here again? Like what's going on?
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And I guess, you know, that image and that night and that whole feeling was both um, you know, it was it was also quite beautiful.
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It's one of those like sad and beautiful pictures and I really wanted to annunciate that into an opening monologue.
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I really like the idea of theater and a drama of of of which we're all the main characters of our own lives, right?
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But I really wanted to just expand in that in like a really >> Yeah, it's a Thespian delusion that we have in our own lives for sure. Right? >> Yes.
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And I just think you know, there's a there's a word I'm so inspired by sonder.
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Means the idea that everyone is being overwhelmed by the fact that everyone is living a life as detailed and complex as your own.
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Like you look around this room and you're like these these hands I look at right you could get you get really deep, right?
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right? But these are the only hands I'm ever going to see and like someone else's hands that's like really theirs and that whole thing just explained like massively, but you know, there's actually something quite beautiful about um the theater in in who I am that I put on
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my fake fur coat and I go to a bar and I sit down and I order Negroni after Negroni people watching and admiring like but also realizing that I'm just like really alone and some of my friends really suck and I don't know who I trust right now and like you know, I think I'm pretty pretty depressed right now. You know, I
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You know, I feel as I'm gone back to being low. I thought I was good.
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But I know I'm going to be all right.
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And this is quite a chic moment to be sad.
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Like I don't know, it's like that whole combination.
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>> playing the main character in the remake of your life.
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>> [laughter] >> Love that. Love that. Yeah.
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And also then you get caught up in this situation.
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I love having a drink on my own in a bar whereby sometimes you get you you you know, you want to be noticed because you don't want to be alone.
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Not to you know, I don't want to be approached, but I like to think that somebody knows that I'm there.
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But no one gives a >> No. Especially in Paris. They're so I love them.
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They're they're so like they're too chic, you know?
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In New York In In New York [laughter] everyone pretends not to give a but they're all desperately looking left and right.
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In Paris they genuinely don't give a >> [laughter] >> Yeah. >> Totally.
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Uh, it's a it's >> It's a beautiful um picture that begins this album and then we go into I will overcome.
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Which um is about as grand a statement to start an an album musically as as I I think you could probably muster at this point in your life.
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In fact, it it's it goes beyond anything I could have expected when I listened to it.
15:44
Um, how what was it like to tame that that song? Cuz you didn't.
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No, we [laughter] didn't. No.
15:54
Um, this song is you know, words are so powerful and I really believe that's quite essential ethos in in um in this music making thing.
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Hope is wanting to create uh lyrics that to to write lyrics that some may to write lyrics that you can speak over yourself and rise above something.
16:19
I You know, some people say manifestation, some people um pray, some people have faith in things, some people whatever that thing is, you know, it's it's science also backs this up, right?
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If you look in the mirror and you say I'm a failure, I'm a failure, I'm a failure, you will you you will succumb to that thing that you're declaring over yourself.
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And this sentence I will overcome. I will overcome. >> The mantra of it. I will overcome.
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Yeah, it's you know, far-fetched and and cheesy for somebody who doesn't need to say that out loud, but some of us do and for that girl I was I needed to to and and still fall back to, you know, life is a flipping up and down.
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But this I will overcome statement was so important to me and it was kind of thinking like what song and how am I going to pair this phrase without sounding like flipping you know, uh like yoga TED Talk. Like I don't know.
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Like you know, it's like how do you encourage How do I encourage myself but in a way that just feels >> It's a mantra, not a catchphrase. Yeah, yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah.
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>> And so it was kind of this sweeping um sound we found with with Tom Richards and and Chris Hill, my two amazing collaborators who are these orchestral geniuses basically.
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They're just like these musical nutcases.
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And um uh Tom Richards I worked on my my 21st century symphony album with So these guys are used to just like translating you know, we start on a piano and then we work out how to then give what what the clarinets going to do, what the and just like this whole just the full kitchen sink at this feeling of you know, I will overcome and it starting at the beginning of just this trudging through you know, this I'm not great right now.
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Things aren't great right now.
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>> 500 steps left to make it to the front door.
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My red high heels click click four minutes four mini two drinks. I feel my backbone Yeah.
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>> threatening to greet the concrete below.
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I mean, who wants to be in Paris drunk and alone?
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>> [laughter] >> Who does though?
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It's pretty kind of sucks though.
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>> Feels like a wasted opportunity, doesn't it? >> Yeah, it does.
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It's like why did I go there and do that? >> I know.
18:31
You know, you there's a couple of tools that you have clearly in your in your box that you're able to pull out in in order to reach past the concerns you have about that phrase becoming pastiche and making it and owning it.
18:42
Um, one is your ability to be able to sing it at a level where it goes beyond any cynicism anyone may have. You own that.
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By the end of it there's no denying it.
18:52
There's also the the the the truth in the detail. Mhm.
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You know, I I've got to bring it up.
18:56
Um, you know, I feel like any artist in particular any female artist in particular any female artist coming from the UK who's searching for truth and soul walks in the footsteps of greats, one of which of course is Amy.
19:08
And I feel like this is one of those things that as much of an honor as it is to follow in anyone's footsteps as late and great as that that it's also got to feel sometimes like there's a shadow from other people's point of view that's following you around and I love how you address this head on. Yeah. in this song. >> Yeah.
19:26
Can I ask you about what it took to leave that line in the song and be open enough to be able to recognize how people have perceived you before and how you now perceive that perception and the poison on their keyboard? Wow bars, Zane.
19:40
Said the poison on their keyboard. You're a poet.
19:44
Um, look, I think it's so funny to me like just having to kind of as you know, I my my growth as an artist has been very, very slow and very gradual.
19:55
So, it's not just crept up on me, but you know, you I'm aware that I'm not like the people see you as something to comment on or or discuss or analyze and as a third party and that's what making art is, right?
20:10
You make things to be judged and then along with that comes you as a person being picked apart and judged, which is, you know, it takes it's a really hard to get used to that. It's not my strength.
20:23
>> hate that if I can add the fact that people assume that it comes with the job.
20:26
Cuz it doesn't and shouldn't come with the job. >> it wouldn't, right?
20:30
And then I think on top of that it's you know, obviously we have our keyboard warriors who hide behind like, you know, their screens and like will really let it go and really just throw stones and and I find that really hard and I find it really hard on a hard day to the point that I'm just not online anymore at all cuz it's just really not good for someone like me. >> It's fair.
20:55
It it's like, you know, the the through line of just you think about Amy, right? >> Mhm.
21:00
Not only her artistry and the artist she was and the fact that everyone around the world loves her now and loves what she created now, you know, and wants to you know, protect her at all costs now that she's not here anymore. >> That's right.
21:17
And and I think it's so important when actually sometimes some of the insults people throw at me is, you know, you think you you're never be Amy, you're you're a fraudulent attempt at a, you know, what a sad excuse for a this.
21:32
You you know, what what was the point of you ever Who do you think you are?
21:36
You have the audacity, you know, and these words that kind of like people want to throw at you and say and the irony is you you done the same you done the same times a thousand to this woman who's not here anymore.
21:51
Why do you think she flipping drank herself under the table?
21:53
Like, what what what the British press and what what people put her through was so evil >> Mhm. and so dark.
22:01
So, I wanted to draw from that comparison, though I have experienced a a Is that a microcasm? Is that a word?
22:09
Like a tiny cave's worth of of what what Amy endured, but I just wanted to say that like to that specific person, you know, you look up Just please, can you just take a moment?
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>> Take a step back for a second.
22:24
>> like can we just look and like how long are we going to repeat patterns and just be like horrible to like I just people who who make songs for a living, like why Do you know, you don't know me.
22:33
I'm actually a really nice person, you know?
22:36
And I and I love music and I and I don't mean any You know, so I really wanted to address that because it really has hurt my feelings time and time again and that's also partly of what the song is about, you know, this wicked world wants to whisper, you can't, you won't. >> Yeah.
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Shut up and go home and go to sleep, you know?
22:52
This is my song to say just Do you know what?
22:55
>> Shadows in the room, little breezes in the trees and these whispers in the wind that are just get inside your head and I'm so grateful you addressed it head-on.
23:01
I was blown away when I heard that lyric in real time.
23:02
And um I also love the fact that they they they, you know, you didn't choose to make it about you.
23:07
You then immediately reminded us all that to some degree I mean, I don't want to make it about everybody else, but I mean, look, I was around we were all around when Amy was struggling and and the world didn't do enough. No.
23:19
I'm not saying anyone could have saved her or the the situation could have been different and it's complex and I don't understand the complexities of it, but I know that we in the throes in the beginnings of the internet age were not responsible as a species. >> No, it was bad.
23:34
And sometimes it still is bad.
23:37
And I just think like we just need to remember like >> Yeah. Come on. Come on. Get your together. Yeah.
23:44
I'm going to start moving around now because there's so much music to talk about and there's some key ones I want to get into.
23:48
I feel that was a pretty I mean, keep it light, mate. Keep it light, mate. Keep it light.
23:51
Keep [laughter] it light.
23:52
I mean, I'm not going to go into fields right now, you know what I mean?
23:54
Let's give that 10 minutes here.
23:57
But I can talk about joy Yes.
23:57
and I can talk about the relationship that you as a family have have continued to nurture as creatives, not just as family members to mutually support each other in your own visions.
24:07
I've spoken to absolutely briefly on the phone, which was a wonderful experience and that's amazing. Amy's amazing. What an amazing life.
24:12
I mean, to be able to tour as a family and then to bring them onto this record for pure joy. How was it?
24:19
>> By the way, I also feel like your sisters came in and were like, "Where the is the four on the floor?"
24:22
>> [laughter] >> "Where's the four on the floor?" Like raise the tempo.
24:23
I don't know how much truth there is in that, >> [laughter] >> but I feel like they kicked you they threw you back in the club for a minute. Um how was it making it?
24:30
It was it was a really beautiful time making this um this song.
24:34
Um I'd say probably like 70% of my album has been made with my long-time collaborator and one of my best friends, Mike Sabbath.
24:43
We have literally the best um friendship and working relationship.
24:50
I've known this boy since before he had facial hair, you know what I mean?
24:51
And now he's got a full mustache, like the full thing. Mhm.
24:57
>> Um he's so brilliant and we we took a trip to Big Bear, so random and rented a little Airbnb somewhere up in the mountain and on this trip >> What season was it?
25:07
It was um uh last year it was just after the Grammys. Okay, cool.
25:15
So, it's kind of winter going into into spring time. Yeah. Nice. Just after the Grammys. >> Nice.
25:20
Snow's all starting to melt.
25:22
Things are starting to thaw out a bit. Yeah, cool. >> It was nice. It was up the mountain.
25:25
And on this trip we did Well, on this trip it was my first writing experience for a couple like a long time.
25:33
I think we've been touring a lot.
25:34
It's just been pretty back-to-back.
25:34
So, I was very um it was deep end. I was like freaking out. >> saying?
25:40
Yeah, I was like, "Ah, I don't know what to write."
25:42
And it was just good what we're doing.
25:43
It was like one of it We were there.
25:44
Um but on this trip we we created this kind of sound.
25:46
So, we did Where Is My Husband on this trip.
25:49
We did Skin & Bones on this trip. We did Joy on this trip.
25:53
We did Beware the South London Lover Boy on this trip.
25:59
It was definitely those four at least.
26:00
>> Yeah, you gave us the dynamic ones up there, huh? >> Yeah.
26:02
And then we threw a bunch of paint and we made a lot of songs, some of which, yeah.
26:06
But those were the ones that were formed out there.
26:08
And it was funny with Joy, um it was just scratch vocals and that very distinct sound.
26:15
Um and the chorus was there from the jump, but How did you get to this the the the stabs?
26:21
Dun dun dun dun dun that So sick. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
26:25
Yeah, that's That was just me and Mike just doing what we do.
26:27
Like, what's really great about Mike is any limit There's no boundaries or no limits.
26:32
I think he sees music as freely as as I do. >> Yeah, yes. Why wouldn't we do that? >> Yeah.
26:37
You know, and we're just we I was like, "Let's sample James Brown."
26:39
That's how it started with him saying There was a record of him I wanted to sample greats, like the people I love and and respect and look up to.
26:48
Um and and James Brown had a song I can't remember what the original song was, but there's a huge monologue in the middle and he's like talking to his band and he's like, "Mr.
26:54
So-and-so, are you somebody?"
26:56
And they're like, "I'm somebody."
26:57
He's like, "Say I am somebody."
26:59
"I am [clears throat] somebody." Yeah. >> Yeah.
27:02
>> we went round and round and then he said, "Miss Ray, are you somebody?"
27:03
And I think he was talking to like one of his singers. >> Mhm.
27:08
And we were like, "Ooh, it's my name."
27:09
Like, let's cut that bit and just loop it. Started like that. Kick drum, synth.
27:14
Dun I moved some chords that were getting my We're singing real time, playing real time.
27:16
And I moved the chords and I was like, "Oh, great. Love these." Round and round. >> Negroni, go.
27:21
>> [laughter] >> Another Negroni, go.
27:24
It was like the literally that that fell out and then it was like, "Let's let's take it to church in that chorus." Yeah.
27:29
So, we went gospel stacks, loads and loads of vocal layers.
27:33
And then um it just grew from there.
27:33
But it was just kind of creating a feeling you know, you wanted it.
27:36
I knew hope was the central theme of this album that I wanted to make.
27:39
wanted to make. And album one was whatever I was going through then and I knew that this one I wanted to be not just for me, but you know, being aware I think spending like three years on stages I'd learned so much about the what I what I wanted
27:53
share as an artist and I think actually I wanted to actually create music with the purpose of um hope, but also hope in a live experience, you know, wanting to I want people to enter that space and leave feeling like, "Okay, I'm going to not give up on life today." Like, which is,
28:05
Like, which is, you know, for anyone who doesn't need to um for anyone who doesn't need that maybe won't get get it and that's okay, but but I want to make it for that person who needs that, you know?
28:17
>> Because you'd had moments on stage touring up to that point where you'd looked out in the crowd and realized that people were going through what they were going through.
28:23
You were present enough to see that. >> Mhm.
28:26
You were looking for the music to try to make them feel better. You had to go make it. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
28:30
>> Medicine Music is medicine and I'm seeing that people are literally like you know, we go to a concert to or we go and see a a film or we go somewhere we're searching for the arts for some sort of something you know, to to hold onto, to inspire us or to just breathe a new lease of life, to to be able to go and attack the It all ends up being a memory and it's the I think that's really what it comes down to, right?
28:53
Like I'm experiencing this with a family member.
28:54
I'm open about this in my conversations um who's going through some serious cognitive decay and dementia and stuff.
28:59
And they would just they just want the memories, man.
29:03
All my mom wants is the memories.
29:03
And then when we put the music on, she goes to the place where the memory is. >> Aw, that's beautiful. Yeah.
29:09
>> And our music is the therapy.
29:09
There's no doubt about it. Music is magic. >> It really is.
29:12
>> But um but it's but I think that when we buy the hard ticket and we go in and it feels like it's a trade and it's all a part of the, you know, the the machinery of capitalism and blah blah blah and especially right now with ticketing being such a hot topic and rightfully so. Yeah.
29:22
Uh it's about capturing an experience and a memory that you'll remember. Absolutely.
29:28
And I literally Oh my god, these these shows have been insane, but I break myself on touring because I just want to give each night like my show is like 2 and 1/2 hours on a on a passionate day and you know, to the I care so much about it, but then there's even like yeah, anyway.
29:45
So, me and my sisters having them on this record and having them in these shows and having them as part of this you know, part of my life in such a real and vivid way is one of the most rewarding feelings you can possibly imagine.
30:02
There's it's so funny like um we do joy at the end of my set and they come out one by one and I'm trying so we have to I have to not look at Emma when she comes out because I mean we're going to cry or like burst out laughing because it's just so Oh, sorry.
30:16
It's just so ludicrous that my little sister's coming out on a microphone singing there's like thousands of people and then my next sister comes out and we just stand together and you know, and then we do the end and the curtain comes down and we're like waving and then the curtain hits the bottom.
30:31
>> And then what do you do with the curtain?
30:32
>> look at them and they're like we like literally laugh and I'm like >> [laughter] >> you [gasps] and I'm like how was that for you tonight? Was that nice? Did you like that?
30:40
And we'll have a little hug and we're it's so beautiful and I'm so proud those girls are just beginning.
30:44
They are so ridiculously talented.
30:48
And I'm so proud and joy was a perfect song.
30:50
So, I remember I had the song and I I was kind of very it was actually one of the last songs to be lyric.
30:53
Um I kind of finished the album in order even though they were created higgledy-piggledy.
30:59
Um but yeah, I was like girls I think this is the one we should do and then got them in got a ton of choir takes loads of vocal layers and um that they each out of their verses individually separately played them to me I was like correct. Exactly. I was like yes, girls. That's how you do it. Well done. Love you. Yeah. Center master. I know you're hurting.
31:22
You've put that in the order of things in a very real way.
31:24
I feel like it's you've got us into a place where we're strong enough to be able to start listening to different sides of the life story here.
31:35
And that one is really really powerful that idea of whether you're talking about yourself you're having a self-reflective moment or reflecting on a relationship with somebody you care about.
31:44
That sense of helplessness.
31:48
Seeing through the the facade.
31:48
That to me there's a lot of pain that you'll experience in life.
31:55
Um that is a very vivid visceral pain.
31:59
Like the unattainable comfort that you want to offer somebody.
32:04
Where were you when you wrote it?
32:04
How did you feel writing it?
32:05
Please just put it through the the you know, the filter of making that song.
32:11
So, [sighs] this is actually one of the first if not the first record I wrote for this album.
32:18
Um it was last year two years ago in October.
32:22
My birthday two birthdays ago. 28 27 26. Um I was 26.
32:29
So, we I had my birthday on that trip.
32:31
And I remember I was in the room with my band.
32:36
So, it was Matt Brooks on the drums and Graham Blevins on the saxophone and Tom Richards on the organ and I was sat on the piano.
32:46
It was this beautiful room full of my guys, you know, and I remember we were having a really real conversation.
32:55
We were talking about mental health and we were talking about you know, specifically actually on that day we were talking about mental health in men and just how you know, as women we you know, it's a whole entire separate conversation because women the adversities and discussion there is is endless.
33:14
But it was also important I felt in that moment to really see my guys and I was just kind of talking about the fact that there is still this not still there is brave face you know, where I'm kind of like where do you guys talk about emotions?
33:28
Where you where do you guys you know, express this and that?
33:32
Some of them are dads, you know, some of them are and it's just this real understanding of the fact that you know, especially in British culture boys will express themselves or or like you know, emotion expression will come through like going to the pub and laughing with your friends like um Social football I think is a good example.
33:52
Still playing at the age of 48. >> Right.
33:55
Cuz you love the game, but equally where else you going to let off steam? Right.
33:58
So, you got you guys are going to the pub like yeah, mate you're all right. Yeah, how's the missus?
34:02
Yeah, this is good laughing laughing drinking drinking.
34:06
But then that like this is maybe is as deep as it it potentially gets for a lot of men and a lot of cultures and I was really um moved to And they expressed as much. Yeah, they did.
34:16
I have a really beautiful relationship with my band and actually we're all getting a little bit teary and um a little bit emotional and we'd started writing a song earlier that day kind of talking about mental health and just like and everyone was just like we were all a bit we were all crying.
34:31
Um and then I remember getting on the piano and I said a little prayer actually.
34:37
I was like, you know, dear God like help me find a way to tell like a song to tell this story really beautifully and I literally turned to the piano and it was this bum bum bum.
34:46
And these four chords that we literally loop throughout the song until the key change.
34:52
You know, F A minor G and just loop round and round and all of a sudden Brooks my drummer starts catching this kick and we wrote it in real time.
35:01
There's a there's a recording of us making the song together.
35:03
making the song together. It was like an hour and 40 minutes just you know, like a band, you know, just drilling the song moving together and I'm singing different I can see you standing on the edge and just these different you know, some of the lyrics were there real time some of them was combed after but we took away this 12-minute kind of cut demo that I was living with and living with and then um
35:28
I was like I know I need to make this into something and then I went back to my LA place and with a lovely um engineer called Enikay and um then I remember specifically there's a a friend in my life um and the lyric was was was like I was
35:47
like you know, when you need um that that poignant perspective so it's like I have the intention of the song but actually I'm going to write this as a letter to my friend who's going through a lot right now. >> Yeah. So, it was addressed specifically >> Yeah.
35:58
So, it was addressed specifically to him and it was you know, it was it was that that that purpose of the song that I needed. The emotional resonance.
36:11
>> Yeah, to say this is what I want to say to you, you know?
36:12
You you you always have a kind word for a stranger, you know? Yeah.
36:17
You I wish that you could find some for yourself and you claw yourself apart in private moments and over bruises you put plasters on and you know, I'm aware how long this song is, you know, it's it's 7 minutes and 50 I think maybe longer than but I just was like I'm not I don't want to cut a single second off of it.
36:34
It's interesting cuz I saw a review someone wrote the other day or something calling some like it's self-indulgent and I was like you've completely missed the point of this specific song because it's actually this it it's actually not about me because actually my instinct might say you don't need this part of the verse you don't need this bit make it shorter make it >> That's self-indulgent. Right.
36:57
Making it or creating it for the purpose of selling record or streaming loads You're putting your own identity into something that belongs to other people. It wasn't about that. It wasn't about that.
37:07
It wasn't about that and it's about giving people a bath of time to enter this song and grieve and feel and hopefully come out the other side when we take that key change and make that lift.
37:22
>> Thank you for doing that because in essence that is what's missing from the conversation is that as soon as we start to have these conversations or traditionally there's a sense that the clock is ticking and we need to just say what we need to say and get on with getting on.
37:32
And actually what you need and what human beings in general need is more space and more grace. >> Space and grace. Yeah. Yeah.
37:41
>> That's kind of what we need more of. >> Yes, we do.
37:44
>> But we're just bashing into each other all the time.
37:46
Yeah, and everything's getting shorter and shorter and quicker and quicker and faster and faster >> bouncing faster and faster. >> Yeah.
37:54
I don't know how we slow things down, but an album like this it will certainly help.
37:57
Um you know, it it it demands attention in all the right ways.
37:59
It is not something that you skip through although that's what I'm doing right now in terms of the conversation, but I have to.
38:05
I mean there's a lot of songs to go through.
38:07
>> [laughter] >> We have to skip through it. Yeah.
38:09
Um What was the hardest one to write?
38:12
The hardest one to write. Hmm.
38:12
For you personally in terms of where you went. Okay.
38:16
>> bit of altitude now I just looked down and realized you kind of covered some real ground on that. Oh, okay.
38:20
So, so they're split into the autumn winter spring summer.
38:22
That's how I'm kind of imagine I was imagining them in my mind and the story in my mind.
38:28
>> And it is literally seasonally broken down through as a track listing. Yeah.
38:31
So, one of the hardest ones for me to write for a whole other reason was the WhatsApp Shakespeare.
38:37
Um and that's purely because that song has had 12 or 13 completely different choruses.
38:43
I have to you know, when you just like it was an old song like and I started years and years ago which was like super super symmetrical super simple. Formulaic.
38:52
Yeah, but like still had that vibe and I was just like my gosh it took me so many it took that took so much effort.
38:59
I had to take months breaks from it for a lot of time.
39:01
But I finally cracked it and I I love it personally.
39:02
I think it's really funny. Makes me laugh a lot. Um and yeah, true story. Life, right?
39:06
Uh and um So, that was hard maybe from a technical >> be headlined that it's a true story, right?
39:15
When it's all a true story. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah.
39:16
[laughter] We should establish that as a benchmark of the whole album. Right, right, right.
39:21
Um but hardest hardest to write um hardest to write um Can I redirect the question? Yeah. How was writing fields?
39:35
Oh, that Do you know what?
39:35
Writing fields was was beautiful actually.
39:41
Can you just describe for people listening the narrative through this record that's that's at the center of the purpose of why it exists.
39:53
So something so beautiful about this album is I've actually managed to get all my grandparents on this album in some way.
40:03
My grandma was the star of the show in like the intro and where is my husband?
40:07
Actually even my late grandfather who just passed away my Swiss granddad is so deep and I actually like brings me to tears whenever I hear the start of it but he was on his deathbed pretty candidly and he's Swiss German Swiss German is his mother language but he speaks a little
40:27
bit of English and it was my uncle when I was like to my uncle, can you just get a voice note of granddad saying I'm not giving up yet and you know, he he he was you know, Alzheimer's and dementia and stuff like that and he was just you know, ready to go. And my uncle managed
40:39
And my uncle managed to get like a do that five five minutes worth of a voice note from him but out of the middle and all the Swiss German he said somewhere in the middle he just said, I'm living not giving up yet and I was literally like I'm sobbing right now and it was so deep and I cut it out and I put it at the start that's his croaky beautiful voice at the start of Lifeboat.
41:02
And by the way, can I just say now if this is the most beautiful thing but as someone again who is experiencing this you cannot direct somebody who is existing in a dimensionally alternative space or searching for memories and elements you cannot direct them to say anything.
41:15
They that was like so divine. It was like wow.
41:21
I was like thank you God for giving me this gift.
41:23
That was the last thing I managed to you know and then he'd passed like maybe a week later.
41:30
So it was that and my Nana and granddad at the start of that record too.
41:35
My my my grandparents honoring my grandparents is just like just the greatest gift this life has offered me a chance to honor my grandparents.
41:42
My grandma on the Brit Awards stage that is something wow.
41:47
You know and my my granddad at Montreux Jazz Festival honoring my grandparents for me is one just the anyway, that's a whole other hours conversation but on this song specifically my granddad Michael who is a songwriter he's where I got it from.
42:06
He you know, I tell I told a story at the Ivor's a year or two back about you know, he had a song stolen from him when he was a kid.
42:17
He used to write songs and send them to record labels.
42:19
So he would record on tape and he would write score the music.
42:23
He had a little rickety piano and you know, proper proper working class middle England.
42:31
So zero you know, connections or any kind of protection or anyone to help a talented boy make his dreams a reality.
42:39
boy make his dreams a reality. And he used to send boxes to record labels down in in London with the hopes that he would create something that you know, someone would take and exactly and you know, the story is so devastating that he wrote this song in particular that for legal reasons for the fact that I don't have a lawsuit to go up against blah blah blah the machine to anyway and the evidence is so yeah, so he'd
43:08
recorded a tape and scored a specific song and sent it in a box to a London record label got a letter back but they kept the tapes and then anyway a year and a half later the song came out and was hugely successful and I know what it song is but I just can't tell you on air cuz I just can't they would probably hit me with a flipping huge but like he had to watch that song succeed everywhere and everyone said he was crazy. Everyone he tried to
43:40
Everyone he tried to tell this was about me the song was about this which was even based in his where he lived like it's so devastating and then and there he gave up on his dream all together.
43:51
dream all together. He just gave up and it's like devastating you know, when you I remember we even sat together as a family one day and like someone like covered it on like a TV show and we were just he just like left the room and he was just like sobbing it was just like deep you know,
44:06
to say the least and I think it's interesting maybe my advocacy or passion for songwriting stems probably deep from my what my family's even endured you know, the system is just so rigged sometimes and so the most beautiful thing a granddaughter could do for granddad so brilliant and talented was to for us to make a song together. So I
44:24
So I remember he came down to London and we booked a studio and we started chipping away at the song together and it was just absolutely magical.
44:37
Two of my band members Danny and Liv the girls actually came in and started the song with me which was really really beautiful.
44:44
really really beautiful. I made a lot of the song with my band that these songs with my band and yeah granddad came down and it was just so medicinal and so beautiful and just you know, even also reflecting on how busy we are some of the lyrics are like it's been so many months I haven't called there's always some
45:04
something more important on my to-do list all these days just chasing everything I lack granddad seems I dwell on all I don't have instead of what I do and it's just actually this focus and then we're we live these lives and we're always like we need to get this next I need to climb this ladder I need to make this thing happen. It's the one thing you look back on when
45:20
It's the one thing you look back on when you've chased all of your dreams and traveled down so many roads the only thing that I regret is the time I didn't spend or didn't spend or didn't make for those people that mean more than anything.
45:31
It's okay years of therapy and maturity will give you a chance to forgive yourself for that but it's good to remind people that it's that it is part of the road map and it's good to acknowledge it at certain stops on the road before you get to a point where you passed all those stops and didn't stop. It's pretty important.
45:52
Yeah, I feel that one deeply and I love that song very very much and the story makes me love it even more.
45:59
God there must have been moments when you were in the thick of this before it turned around and you were like my God I'm not I'm not going to go down the same road as my granddad.
46:06
I'm not going to to have followed in his footsteps and have this passion only to find the industry in my own way different to his but in my own way to be treating me this way must have just been so sobering for you.
46:18
It might it must have crossed your mind.
46:22
I think it did but you know what's also so beautiful is the fact that maybe even you know, my grandparents and everything that they've endured you know, my grandma has a whole other insane story but everything they've endured you know, they what we're doing now as a family is like
46:45
just the greatest gift like my granddad could see that you know, his legacy his talent his his passion for songwriting his love for artistry passed down same with my grandma passed down and passed down and then you know, you get to come and see that all your granddaughters just really so special. That your granddad who would rightfully
47:06
That your granddad who would rightfully feel some kind of way about even listening to music after going through the experience has been able to reconnect in a deeper way watching the spell get broken and seeing what you and your sisters have been able to achieve as a family and I think there's a specific moment at the Ivor's the Ivor Novello's is a very like it's an awards for songwriters in the UK.
47:25
It's quite the prize giving darling.
47:27
You go there and you get honored by so many it's really fantastic award show.
47:30
When you win it it's like here we go. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
47:32
I remember just attending like for the first time 18 or 19 and just being in floods of tears just seeing [clears throat] the stories of the people's faces that we don't know but the the pens behind some of the greatest creations of all time and it was in that room that I got to basically bring my granddad up on stage and be like this is my granddad Michael.
47:53
He belongs in this room just as much as anyone here. He's a songwriter.
47:58
You know, he he industry did him dirty but he belongs in this room and that moment like for him and for me and my family was just so powerful and I don't know how to quite explain it but you know, there was a thing all these different songwriters were coming up to
48:15
my granddad and being like hello or this happened you know, to me actually when I was you know, in this kind of community that just welcomed him in for the first time that he was just you know, what's the word told he yeah, yeah. Oh, he didn't even
48:29
Oh, he didn't even get a chance to experience that because he was hurt given his credit. Yeah. So that was wow. That was such a yeah.
48:40
It's so lovely that he got to experience that cuz it's been waiting for him and this is the thing that I I really try to tell any new artist that's going through something or even my friends who have had some success and are having a tough time.
48:50
I'm like it's still waiting for you.
48:52
People are still waiting for you. Yes.
48:54
You know, don't don't think that there's a couple of people who are disregarding what your ability is and there's there's a whole group of people who are waiting for you to make something.
49:03
Even if it takes years and in my granddad's case you wait like what 40 50 years to be some some kind of reward.
49:09
Yeah, but yeah, this life isn't it all right all right queen of patience.
49:17
I'd imagine that you are impatient as well.
49:20
>> [laughter] >> I very am I very am in very what drives you crazy?
49:25
Oh, what drives me crazy mixing an album. It's really hard.
49:32
It's really >> [laughter] >> Do you know, finishing songs hard.
49:38
>> you know I'm the I'm the person who had to who who gets so inside it that when I start to finally ask I'm in this position I start start to finally ask for one more change I start apologizing about it.
49:47
>> [laughter] >> I'm not even just like I need a change I'm like I promise this is the last current. Oh without doubt yeah.
49:51
No it's never the last current yeah yeah yeah.
49:56
It's agonizing it's such a beautiful but agonizing process.
49:58
It's to the point where you put your headphones in and you're just squirming like I'm not sure if I've ever felt so uncomfortable for for reasons I cannot explain when I hear a mix that's [laughter] off. Oh it's hard.
50:08
I will pause it I will just stop it put it down and just like I have to breathe in and out and it's really like it the level of passion and detail is so intense.
50:19
This is what I was saying you know my my vinyl is is a first edition. I really apologize.
50:25
>> How do you apologize before the vinyl's even out?
50:28
>> am I'm apologizing to anyone who's purchased a vinyl because you are getting the album it's not a fraudulent vinyl.
50:33
However it is a first edition.
50:33
I will I want you to know the digital versions of some of these songs some are quite different and you just [laughter] need to embrace that because I tried my best.
50:48
It's really some of the some things are similar yeah.
50:51
It was a journey and like literally the the deadline is the 20th.
50:56
I want that first edition. I want I want that one.
50:58
We're going to sell it as that Zane.
50:59
It's a collectible edition.
51:01
Buy it now cuz it will be updated to the digital version. >> be amazing you know.
51:05
The song I was just playing before features Al Green Yeah oh my gosh.
51:09
As if I'm not going to talk about that. >> gosh. The Reverend Al Green.
51:12
Oh my gosh can we just Al Green ladies and gentlemen.
51:16
[applause] The song is flipping music.
51:19
>> Okay so first of all Al Green >> you even contact Al Green?
51:21
Because if anyone could contact Al Green to get Al Green to sing on this song everyone would be doing it. >> That right.
51:27
But here he is on your record.
51:31
It was so we I managed to cross paths with his manager Matthew who is this like you know he's such a character like he's everything you would you know just like I don't know how to even explain him.
51:52
Yes for a very long time.
51:55
>> He like kind of like looks down as he talks and like has these giant you know huge glasses and like cares so much about music and is like so nice and somehow got into contact about the idea of um me doing some writing for Al and this [clears throat] was like maybe a couple years [snorts] back.
52:12
And so I was like do let's do whatever we what it whatever it takes to make this happen.
52:17
Um so I flew out to Memphis for a week >> Oh my god that plane ride must have just been surreal. >> It was insane.
52:25
I was like I'm on the way to meet Al Green like what?
52:27
Um and I got there and actually first I got to spend two or three days writing with his band.
52:36
Um I need to shout out Mr.
52:36
Reverend Charlie Hodges who is his organ player and he plays he played on all of the records.
52:43
I remember him sitting there and you know love and happiness has such a like such a distinct organ part and he was playing it for me and I was literally losing my mind.
52:54
And this guy is literally like 90 years old like this is his organ player he's literally 90 years old.
53:00
He is so cute and lovely and he's like good morning Miss Ray you know. How are you doing today?
53:09
Like just the most beautiful I just was in the room with these musicians in the rooms they recorded all these records.
53:16
>> Can you even get your head around why it is what it is cuz it's it's not the notes it's not the it's not the physical hands it's it's feel It's the soul it's feeling. Right?
53:30
>> And it's very much their voice it's their character being translated through the instrument and you bring these guys together and they just speak Al Green like and you're just there like oh my goodness real time I'm it's making sense the puzzle pieces that went into making some of the greatest soul records of all time. So my mind is blown.
53:51
Um and meeting Al was very like how are you?
53:59
Like I just didn't know what to say really.
54:02
Um yeah and it was just such a an insane experience collaborating with him and his band on this song.
54:11
I I knew that this was the song for him and I if he was open to it I was like this record and I was literally if Al Green would be down to be on this record then it's game over in in my in my in my life like and he loves it he loved it and yeah his voice on this record You set him up so beautifully as well you introduce him so cuz a lot of times
54:38
with these features or whatever you want to call them now these guest appearances by really great artists that that show up they they show up and sometimes you're just like oh man I wish that more had been made of that and you really like you set the scene you're like oh no what you're about to experience is not lost on me. >> No. As Ray the artist >> No. As Ray the artist >> No.
54:55
I know very very clearly what we're what's going on here.
54:58
>> This is a seriously the honor I feel the gratitude and the honor I feel that he is on this album of mine is I am I'm just so humbled like I love this artist.
55:13
I love everything he's contributed to music. I am just like wow.
55:19
>> I mean he's just an absolute go-to every single year for anyone Timeless that's the definition of timeless. You're right there. You're right there.
55:24
This music may contain hope is the name of the album.
55:28
That was the fastest 70 minutes I've spent in the company of someone >> minutes? That was quick.
55:34
>> Yeah I'm so grateful for the music that you give us and I'm so happy to have had the chance to talk to you at this point in your journey.
55:41
Um you know and I'm looking forward to the next one already and I know you've got so much music to make over the course of your life and I'm just I think we should all feel really grateful that you're still doing it so thank you for the your time today.
55:54
>> thank you and thank you for the detail and for like really really listening and really hearing.
56:00
>> [snorts] >> That's it makes an artist feel seen so thank you for for seeing me.
56:04
So I'm really yeah it's a I'm grateful very grateful. Thanks Ray. Thank you.