0:00
Hello boys and girls, Mogwai and Gremlins. This is Tim Ferriss.
Search this video
0:02
Welcome to another episode of The Tim Ferriss Show.
0:04
If you're looking for perhaps some type of highbrow intellectual long-form conversation, you might want to go to tim.
0:11
blog/podcast for one of my other long-form interviews.
0:17
Oh, don't sell us short, dude. Come on. Hold on, Kevin.
0:21
I haven't introduced you yet.
0:23
[laughter] But for those of you who enjoy the the random helter-skelter, is that the right word? Yeah, I think it is. nature.
0:29
Well, I'm going to run with it of the random show, which we haven't had an episode of for a very, very long time.
0:36
It is conversation between yours truly and my good friend uh Kevin Rose.
0:41
Guest number one on The Tim Ferriss Show. That's true.
0:45
You were guest number one, the very first episode of The Tim Ferriss Show.
0:48
And Actually, that's in my LinkedIn bio now.
0:53
It's [laughter] It's my claim to fame.
0:55
It's in your Google Plus bio. That's right.
0:58
[laughter] And We have not done random show for a long time, but I'll let you do if you want to do an introduction of the random show. we even need to anymore. think we need to.
1:07
even know what episode we're on.
1:07
Like for those that view that have heard the random show before, I think we've done probably, if I had to guess, I'd say maybe 25 episodes. Something like that. 25 to 30 episodes.
1:18
So we're episode 27, let's call it. Episode 27.
1:20
And Kevin, for people who don't know you, what's your story?
1:23
What would you like people to know about you?
1:26
What's the the speaker bio version of Kevin Rose?
1:27
I don't even know these days.
1:31
Uh no, seriously, um I would say that I've been a long-time internet entrepreneur.
1:38
Um I'm probably best known for creating the social news website Digg back in 2004.
1:42
Um that grew to become a pretty big entity um for a number of years.
1:46
And then I was at Google as an investor, and now I'm at True Ventures as an investor.
1:55
Tim, you and I probably co-invested in maybe a dozen or so angel deals. Yeah, at least.
2:00
Facebook together, I think Twitter together.
2:02
Twitter together, Blue Bottle Coffee together.
2:05
Yeah, yeah, a bunch of them.
2:05
Side note, you remember how ridiculed we all were when the consortium of techies and non-techies invested in Blue Bottle Coffee?
2:15
Do you remember how much [ __ ] we got on the internet for that? Oh, yeah. Absolutely.
2:18
They're like, "Why would Blue Bottle need to raise money?" And but it's done okay.
2:22
It had had a great exit here just about a month ago. It has done all right. It was a What was it?
2:27
A majority stake acquisition by Nestle for 700 million or so. So, it worked out. Yeah, it worked out.
2:32
So, you've done very well as an investor.
2:34
You are obsessed with many things Japanese. You Yeah.
2:39
You have a new obsession it seems every few weeks.
2:41
And uh Do you have anything new to add? Actually, you know what? I want to new stuff.
2:47
I want to hear about the fast mimicking diet because this is something I thought I I would have put money on you never sticking with.
2:56
The fast mimicking diet and maybe you can explain for people what that means.
2:59
But you've actually now done a number of scheduled 5-day Yeah, that's right. It's 5-day FMD.
3:05
So, uh well, I'll start back by saying that uh probably the reason why Tim you and I are friends.
3:11
I met you when you were launching your first book um on your boat party that you did.
3:14
You rented out a warship in the the San Francisco Bay.
3:18
And um The SS Jeremiah where they recorded a lot of the boiler room audio for the James Cameron movie Titanic. Oh, crazy. In fact, mhm. That's awesome.
3:31
But um yeah, well, I we hit it off because we're we both love all kinds of of this idea of lifelong learning I think has been a theme that you and I both enjoy.
3:39
And um you know, I've certainly got really into biohacking in the last couple years.
3:45
I've watched uh from afar um you poke and prod yourself and squirt all kinds of different juices out of your elbow.
3:55
[laughter] You know, I need this requires a little bit of explanation.
3:58
So, just this is so gross.
4:01
All right, but now I have to explain it.
4:03
So, I had a botched PRP injection, which is platelet-rich plasma injection in my right elbow.
4:08
And people can look up PRP.
4:10
It actually has some fantastic applications, but there was a botched injection, which pushed effectively subcutaneous bacteria into the elbow capsule itself.
4:18
And it turned into this horrible infection that required uh debridement and surgery and so on.
4:26
But, Kevin, being the good friend that he is, came to visit me in the ER when I was having the uh I'm not sure if you'd call it synovial fluid, the infection fluid.
4:37
the pus drained out of your elbow.
4:39
out of my elbow with this gigantic syringe.
4:42
And uh being the mature adult that I am, I thought it'd be funny to take this turkey baster worth of elbow fluid out of the [laughter] the sharps container and squirt it at Kevin, who was in the room.
4:57
I'm not proud of it, but I don't regret it, either.
5:01
So, yes, you've seen me do a lot uh and make a lot of uh short-term decisions that haven't turned out very well in the world of biohacking.
5:10
It's always entertaining though, got to say.
5:13
[laughter] Had a lot of fun doing stupid [ __ ] together.
5:15
Um but yeah, speaking of of well, probably not that dumb these days, but uh fasting.
5:21
So, I got into fasting um here probably about 3 years ago, 2 and 1/2 3 years ago.
5:26
Um I started the fasting app Zero, which is a a free fasting tracker.
5:29
Um and so that uh is really kind of blown up and and taken off.
5:35
Um but then I started hearing about um the research from Dr. Dr. Valter Longo.
5:40
And so, um we actually it was from a friend of mine.
5:45
Uh you know Mike Maser, a mutual friend of ours. Yep.
5:47
And Mike was diagnosed with stage four cancer.
5:50
He went into chemotherapy treatment and he was one of the guys that said I'm just not going to, you know, just take what they give me, but I'm going to go out and do my own research and see what else I can be doing to help fight this and and beat this down.
6:02
And one of the things that came up was this idea of doing these five-day FMDs and the FMD stands for fasting mimetic diet and the idea is that compliance of doing a standard five-day fast is relatively low because it's it's an extremely difficult thing to do.
6:23
Tim, have you ever done a five-day water only fast? Have you tried?
6:26
Yeah, I've done five, seven, and 10-day.
6:29
Okay, so I've I've done a five-day water only and I will tell you it is absolutely brutal.
6:33
I don't know what your experience was, but like I had a really difficult time sleeping.
6:37
Yeah, yeah, there's a I believe it's a cholinergic effect that leads you to have rapid heartbeat quite often when you were trying to sleep. It's not pleasant.
6:48
So you'll be exhausted and you'll lay down in bed and you're you'll feel like you just ran a 100-m sprint in terms of heartbeat.
6:54
It's very very unpleasant. It's kind of scary.
6:59
Like and and I get those I'm also one of those people that get those I get those little early heartbeats.
7:04
You know where you like feel like your your heart like kind of skip a beat a little bit.
7:07
They're completely benign and I've had it looked at and and everything's fine, but I get those every once in a while and those are those come more frequently when I'm in a fasted state.
7:16
So long story short, Mike does this five-day fast. He beats back cancer.
7:21
He's in full remission, which is awesome.
7:25
But the idea with the the five-day fast is that interrupt you one more time?
7:28
The and I I think this I don't think Mike would mind this, but I remember you and I when we were talking about this and he Did he do five or three? I can't recall. you're right. He did three.
7:39
He did three, but just just for those who are curious, so I've had conversations with Dominic D'Agostino before on this podcast, very well-published researcher, and I was first introduced to the possibility that fasting prior to chemotherapy, uh I believe, and radiation could be either uh has the potential to increase the resilience of normal cells Mhm.
8:03
while increasing the susceptibility or weakness of cancer cells to facilitate this type of treatment, but also to uh decrease the side effects that are commonly experienced.
8:16
And so, Mike, to my understanding, would do say a 3-day fast before a session, and while the other people in his cohort were laid out on the on the couch or in bed the next day, he'd be running a 10-mi training run.
8:30
Right, which is just insane. Which is nuts. Yeah.
8:32
Yeah, and and so, he originally, when he got turned on to this um research by Dr.
8:35
Longo, is um he showed me this YouTube video, where they were giving rats chemotherapy, and the one the the rats that were fasted were just like running around the cage, they looked like normal, healthy rats, and the ones that didn't fast were, just like you said, like on their side, all beat up, and in a horrible state.
8:50
And that's exactly what Mike experienced.
8:54
And yeah, the idea is that um on the making the um chemotherapy more effective is that, you know, you're depriving your cells of um the cancer cells of some nutrients, certainly sugar, less glucose, and it makes them more susceptible um to the chemotherapy treatment, so the chemotherapy is that much more effective.
9:12
So, you know, obviously, we can't say for certain uh whether that's what put him into remission, but he's really happy that it did work, and he is in remission, and the evidence looks pretty compelling um in humans.
9:22
Um and so, they're also uh extending this whole protocol to healthy individuals as a a way to potentially prevent cancer from even forming in the first place.
9:32
So, I was turned on to um Dr.
9:32
Valter Longo's new book, The Longevity Diet, and I had him on my podcast.
9:38
Have you seen this book yet? Uh I have seen that.
9:41
Yeah, I haven't read it, but I have seen it.
9:43
Yeah, it's pretty awesome.
9:43
So, the there's a whole chapter on his FMD protocol and what you need to do to do do these 5-day fasts.
9:49
And so, I guess getting into what it actually is, so how it differs from a water-only fast is that you do have calories.
9:56
So, you have around 700 or so calories per day.
9:58
Um some people say that sounds like a lot, some people say it sounds like a little.
10:05
It's actually not that much food.
10:05
It's like a handful of small soups and some crackers.
10:10
[laughter] And you know, the first day it's not so bad.
10:12
You're like, "Oh, I can do this."
10:13
Like some crackers and a little bit of soup.
10:14
And then day two and day three and you're like, "Oh my god, I'm dying." Right?
10:18
But it it's not nearly as bad as water-only.
10:20
Um but the the the idea is that you eat just enough food to still get into this fasted state.
10:25
So, all of your inflammation markers, all of the things that the the different markers they're looking at in your blood, they they look just like you're you're doing a water-only fast, but with a minimal amount of food.
10:36
So, you have a little bit of not as much hunger and a little bit more energy, and so the compliance is much higher.
10:45
Were you tracking when you do these uh FMDs, have you tracked your ketone levels at all?
10:49
Do you get into ketosis or does the small amount of carbohydrate and so on that you're consuming keep you out of ketosis?
10:55
It it I get a mild I would say I get around 0. 5 or so millimolars.
11:00
So, it's like a very mild right on the edge.
11:03
Right, which is kind of brutal cuz you're kind of in the keto flu symptom area. Yeah.
11:09
And so, you're not fully into ketosis.
11:11
Well, this is really interesting because um so, Attia Peter Attia, who you you've had on the show a few times, he's my doctor and I know you work with him as well.
11:19
And we've kind of like played around with this this protocol in that um Attia has put together an FMD diet that is a lot more ketogenic friendly.
11:30
So, a lot heavier on the fats um and a lot less on the refined carbohydrates.
11:35
So, for example, when you're doing Longo's version of this diet, and he actually has a non-profit called ProLon.
11:40
So, you actually just order this kit.
11:41
So, I get a kit in the mail that has all the pre-packaged food.
11:43
If you're watching the video version of this, this is what it looks like here.
11:46
I just happened to have one of this is like day five or yeah, day five. What do they do?
11:52
What does the non-profit do with the money that they get?
11:53
Cuz it looks very research.
11:55
It goes back into research. That's right.
11:57
And and Longo doesn't receive any of the in the any of the money at all.
12:00
He doesn't take a salary.
12:02
Um and so, you know, this is meant for people that want to um create a little autophagy, uh little cell death, um uh generate new stem cells, which he has proven um actually happens via this uh 5-day method.
12:14
And so, the thing that hooked me though is I have had and um elevated cholesterol uh um on my whole father's side of the family, and that's turned into heart disease with my dad and him passing away from a heart attack.
12:27
My grandpa passed away from a heart attack.
12:29
My grandma on my dad's side passed away from a heart attack.
12:33
So, like it's it's running deep.
12:33
Uh um and it's a little bit scary, you know, now that I'm 40, I've got um these uh pretty bad numbers.
12:40
So, so much so that uh Attia has put me on uh Crestor, which is um you know, knocking back uh the bad cholesterol um with a statin, but obviously I'd I'd prefer to not to be on a statin.
12:51
Anyway, long story short, um I decided to because of his book, The Longevity Diet, I was reading through it and he said that um he was seeing people that did the 5-day fast, they were improving their cholesterol numbers.
13:04
Um and they were getting more good cholesterol and less bad cholesterol.
13:07
So, I was like, "Oh, that sounds interesting.
13:08
I might as well give this a shot."
13:09
But to give it a proper shot, you're supposed to do, and I and I talked Longo about this, but three back-to-back 5-day fasts of the over a 3 months, and then once a quarter.
13:20
Okay, so you do you there's like a loading phase of fasting that you do whatever, the first week of each month for 3 months.
13:28
It's the creation of fasting.
13:28
like a [laughter] Right, and then you do maintenance once a quarter thereafter. That's right. Okay.
13:35
Yeah, so I did the first 5-day fast 3 months ago.
13:40
Had my blood work run drawn pre and post.
13:43
You know, small minor improvements. Second fast, same thing.
13:45
And then by the third, we actually saw a dramatic drop on a few different fronts, cholesterol-wise.
13:52
And Attia was like when he called me up on my cuz we do these like little you know calls to go over my blood work.
13:58
And he was like, "Kevin, you're going to you're going to live to 90 if you if you keep this up. This is amazing."
14:03
So, he was shocked and he was blown away.
14:06
And so, we're pretty happy with the results.
14:09
We'll see how long they they stick.
14:09
And this is no dietary changes.
14:12
This is just I mean, granted there's there's a dietary change during those 5 days, but no like long-term.
14:18
I'm still kind of sticking to the same diet that I've always been been sticking to.
14:23
I like that he was so specific with 90.
14:25
That's lower than I would have expected.
14:27
So, it must be all must be all the meth that you're doing that's going to kill you.
14:30
Yeah, I mean I still do a dose of meth every every now and then, but no actually speaking of meth, dude.
14:35
I just did some L-theanine for the first time today. Yeah, yeah.
14:39
Have you tried this with coffee?
14:39
I it is very interesting stuff, to be sure. god, dude.
14:43
I'd never tried it before. I took a pill of it.
14:45
I took 200 mg this morning.
14:48
And I was out with with a mutual friend Tony Conrad.
14:50
We met for coffee and I gave him a pill, too.
14:54
And we were like cracked out for like 3 hours, man.
14:58
[laughter] Yeah, so this observing of the biohacking is a mutual arrangement that Kevin and I have.
15:05
[laughter] It's not just him watching me squirting fluid out of my elbow.
15:08
I also observe things that you do.
15:11
Now, on the on the FMD though, just to return to that for a second, you mentioned in passing that Attia had looked at the possibility of doing a lower carbohydrate, higher fat He actually has a protocol for that.
15:26
Yeah, I'm sure he'd he'd give you the PDF if you if you ask for it for the podcast notes. Have you tried it? I did.
15:32
Yeah, I did that for the second one and it was I I liked it.
15:36
Um actually, I just happened to buy a three pack of the ProLon kit so I wanted to go through them and use them cuz they're not cheap and so I just used that for the last one.
15:43
But I like it Tia's in that it's a little bit more work obviously cuz you're preparing your own food, but it's largely like his is different in that with ProLon you get these little tiny snacks throughout the entire day.
15:55
With his, it's one meal a day and it's a it's just a like a greens and like, you know, three tablespoons or four tablespoons of olive oil and like six olives and, you know, like some sunflower seeds and like it's not [laughter] it's not a whole lot, but it certainly is is gives you it's not as refined and so you I saw my ketone levels go up on his versus and I think I had certainly more energy on his versus the ProLon. Got it.
16:21
Well, I'll ping Peter about that.
16:24
Peter about that. It makes sense that you would on multiple levels that you would have higher ketone levels and for people who are wondering how one would measure ketone levels, I think you and I still use the same device which is the Precision Extra XTRA
16:38
by Abbott Labs which does a sufficient job in measuring something called BHB beta hydroxybutyrate in the blood for for a number of different reasons, this is a much more precise and accurate, well, let's just call it precise, but consistently precise. Maybe
16:55
Maybe it's accurate, maybe it isn't, method of measuring ketones or whether the degree to which you're in ketosis than pee sticks because as your body becomes or if you're already very efficient at using ketone bodies, you could show a false negative where you pee on this on the stick, it tells you you're not in ketosis when in fact you are.
17:17
So, the blood the blood is just more accurate.
17:20
Uh well, I I'm glad you're going to lift to 90. That makes me happy.
17:24
Yeah, I mean it was a it was a pretty cool experiment and and certainly for someone that has heart disease running their family, um I'm going to keep it up.
17:31
I'm going to I'm going to do another blood draw here next week to see where my levels are at and then um try and do this quarterly.
17:37
That's And hopefully if we can get it down to um where I won't be using statins any longer, that'd be great.
17:43
The last time we did a random show, it was a very very long time ago, I I believe.
17:48
Uh it was at least before you had uh a little monkey in your house and a reason uh many reasons, of course, to stick around, but now a a very compelling new reason.
18:01
So, what is it How would you describe since certainly I have no kids that I'm aware of at this point.
18:10
That's a good uh good disclaimer there.
18:12
Yeah, just, you know, that I I don't have kids asterisks that I know of.
18:16
Uh what have been the biggest changes that you've felt or observed in in yourself or otherwise, how you view the world, anything like that, now that you have a kid?
18:28
And what And what is your kid's name?
18:28
I know you Yeah, uh Zelda.
18:30
She's 4 months old and um she's named after the video game because um one of the first things that my wife and I bonded on uh very early on in our relationship was our love for the game Zelda.
18:41
And actually the new Zelda game allows you to track your hours played.
18:45
It actually shows it in like the little settings menu.
18:48
And so, Darya has um like over 200 hours played of the latest Zelda.
18:53
So, she's she's hardcore.
18:53
She played a lot during her pregnancy.
18:57
She's a true believer and when we were in Japan uh a long time ago, uh Darya was using some type of emulator.
19:03
I don't know what it what device it was on exactly, but she was playing Zelda on all of the trains when we were sitting down and chilling.
19:10
That's one thing I remember.
19:12
the Yeah, Josh Cook was, too. Yeah, that's right. Yeah.
19:16
That's It's fun to play the original ones with those old school emulators.
19:17
Um but yeah, so in in terms of her, I mean, it's It's hard for I think a guy in that when you first have your first child, it's It's like um there's not a whole lot to do.
19:28
There's just like a lot of crying.
19:30
And so, it It's you know, I tried to help out where I can, but it's really like, you know, on the hip of Mom.
19:37
She was for the first, you know, several weeks and just there's a lot of getting used to new things.
19:41
And then now it's just It's just amazing, too.
19:44
You walk into a room and she lights up when she sees me for the first time.
19:46
She smiles and giggles and, you know, it kind of changes the way that I want to approach life in terms of um what things are important and trying to make more time to be a good father.
19:59
And so, uh for someone like myself and that has so many varying interests in and certainly can get sucked into new things pretty easily, I've been um trying to be a little bit more thoughtful about where I where and when I spend my energy um so that I can kind of dial back, you know, so I I've spent a a good portion of this year trying to live a little bit more minimalist lifestyle.
20:25
What are some of the steps you've taken to do that?
20:29
Well, um one of the things that like you and I have had this conversation every year since we first met.
20:35
But now you actually have a a gigantic incentive to follow through, right?
20:41
Well, it's [laughter] funny, every time Tim and I get together, it's just like, "Oh man, I've got too many investments. I'm doing this.
20:46
There's too many things going on and I got to spend my time here."
20:49
And we're always like more or less complaining to each other of just like just taking on too many things.
20:54
Um even [laughter] It's so ridiculous.
20:58
Um Uh so, I I've just been trying to um implement a few rules.
21:04
So, one of the things I did starting January 1st was to throw away or donate something every single day.
21:11
And so, I have forced myself to go in and so, for example, um a few days ago I went in and I just like picked out all the clothes that I haven't touched in um a year and I took them down the street like a a half a block away is a donation place and I donated anything that I hadn't worn in a year and it really thins out your closet.
21:32
And I've been doing that Was that easy for you to do or did you have any resistance? It was. There was no resistance.
21:36
You weren't like, "But that's the sweater that my Auntie Janie gave me."
21:39
And No, I mean, I Who is that the lady you had in your podcast that wrote that book on Marie Marie Kondo Yes, what was the Technically Technically Marie Kondo's how they would say it in Japanese, but Marie Kondo. Yeah.
21:54
Marie Kondo, yeah, she's awesome.
21:54
So, I listened to the her audio book and one of the things that she says in her audio book is that the way that you can depart with something is to realize that it has already taught you its lesson and that lesson may be that it wasn't for you, right?
22:10
So, like [laughter] if if you have it hanging in your closet and you look at it and you're like, "Oh, but I someday I might."
22:14
No, the lesson is that it spent its time with you, it wasn't for you and it should go to a good home where it can be appreciated by someone else.
22:22
And so, my lesson is not to buy it again.
22:25
And and and so, I took that and I've applied that to thinning out pretty much everything in my life.
22:31
And so, every single day and I think that a lot of people there's like this analysis thing where you think about cleaning out the garage or you think about doing this massive overhaul in your life and you're like, "Oh, you know, I it's the weekend. I got to do this."
22:44
And there's always something that jumps in front of it in terms of priorities.
22:46
For me, it's like I find that if I just say, "Okay, one thing a day."
22:51
Like at the end of the year, I'm going to I may not be to my goal, but after 5 years I certainly will.
22:58
[laughter] You know, it's it's not like I have that much stuff, but just really saying, "Do I need this in my life?
23:02
And is it bringing joy to my life?
23:04
I think it's is such a a good forcing function to like get rid of a lot of stuff.
23:08
And everything that you get rid of is actually less of a mental load on you.
23:14
There was this old tea master that I met one time and and Tim and I have done some crazy travels all throughout China in in tea lands, but there was this there was this one guy I met Oh, the stories we could tell. Yeah, seriously.
23:26
[laughter] We've done some crazy stuff in the middle of the Yunnan province.
23:31
[laughter] Nothing sexual. Um That was our friend. Yeah, right.
23:37
[laughter] We had a we had a friend that did something.
23:42
So, uh long story short, um the the one thing that um this this tea master showed me is he pulled out of his pocket one key and he showed me the one key and he goes, "Kevin, do you know what this is?"
23:52
And I I was like it's it's it's a key, [laughter] you know?
23:55
And he's like, "Yeah, it's it's the key to my house."
23:57
Like this is this is my one key.
24:00
He's like, "I've worked my entire life to have one key because we can all have multiple keys.
24:06
You know, you meaning like the things that you purchase, whether you have a key to your boat or your spare garage or another, you know, a motorcycle or whatever it may be.
24:15
There's things in your life that you accumulate and in the least amount of burden and the most happiness you can get is like having less stuff to worry about.
24:22
And so that I find that to be really true.
24:24
And so that's what I've been trying to focus on is is just having less and being happy with a a very handful of high quality things.
24:32
I I also want to mention that it's possible to read a book like Marie Kondo's book, which I can never remember the title of because I want to say it's like the magic art of Japanese tidying up.
24:45
Then it's like, "No, it's something close."
24:46
It's like the art of the joy of magic cleaning up.
24:49
I can never remember the exact phrasing.
24:51
I don't know why, but in any case, that cult following with her book leads some readers to think it's an all or nothing take it or leave it approach.
25:02
So you, on the other hand, have philosophically found bits and pieces of that book that are very useful to you, but are tactically actually doing the opposite of what she recommends, but it works for you.
25:12
So she recommends doing this like once in a lifetime tidying Super Bowl, basically, where you block out two or three days of your life and that's what you do and then the rest is maintenance.
25:23
It's kind of like the the fast mimicking diet of Japanese tidying, right?
25:27
[laughter] You have this loading phase.
25:31
And I've had this book I actually am looking at it on my bookshelf right now [laughter] for like 2 years.
25:38
And I'm just like, man, I'm I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it.
25:42
And then I'm like, two to three days, I look at my calendar, I'm like, no, I'm not going to do it.
25:44
I'm just not going to do it.
25:46
So I like the idea tactically of one at a time. Uh one per day.
25:54
And also what's what's helped me because I do I I have actually been since I moved to Austin not too long ago, it's been a great opportunity after boxing everything up.
26:03
It's like, okay, do I really want to unbox all this stuff or do I just want to donate Right.
26:05
a lot of this because it might be from a one to 10 scale of value a two to me or maybe a one, maybe a three, but I could donate this very easily to Goodwill or somewhere else to say a high school gym that needs equipment, which is something I've done in the past.
26:26
And it's an immediate eight, nine, or 10.
26:28
It's just a better It's it's an it's a it's a nice karmic chess move to donate.
26:34
And you say, think of not what you're losing, but also what you're giving to someone else in that respect, uh which I find really helpful.
26:42
So you're giving away one item per day.
26:46
Um The other thing, too, I will tell you with um along those lines is that if there is a purchase that I want to make um that is not just what I would consider to be a you know a necessity like toilet paper or whatever it may be um and it's something that is is is luxury or not luxury but in the sense of like you know it's going to cost you over $100 and I don't necessarily need it but I kind of want to try it.
27:08
Um you can what I do is I save for later on Amazon so you can add and say save for later and you know set a reminder in your um calendar app for a week or two weeks later and almost 90% of the time I I end up not buying that thing.
27:25
I still have one other thing in there actually from you.
27:26
It's um uh that not NAC knock Oh yeah. Should I buy that?
27:32
I still haven't decided yet.
27:34
Well NAC uh so this is I I should say with all of this stuff that we're discussing [snorts] because it bears repeating we are not doctors.
27:44
We don't play them on the internet.
27:46
So everybody everybody should assume that at least 50% of what we're saying is complete [ __ ] nonsense and we're just not sure which 50% it is.
27:53
So work with a qualified professional uh before you start taking or stopping any type of medication or supplement.
28:01
The NAC came [snorts] to me initially because I was I was looking at at it as a means to accelerate recovery between workouts.
28:13
And uh my understanding I might be getting this wrong but is that it is a precursor to glutathione which some people think of as this master antioxidant or upstream antioxidant that has a host of beneficial effects.
28:30
And what I noticed in taking the NAC is that I was over the period of a week to 10 days perhaps seven eight days into it that I was I was more even keeled than typi than than was typical.
28:45
I felt very like the week had been very smooth and I hadn't changed anything else that I could identify.
28:51
I'd been either meditating or not meditating for a series of weeks.
28:56
There were a lot of constants.
28:59
And when I went on to PubMed and began to look at N-acetylcysteine and search for other terms like depression or bipolar and so on, there were a number of search results that popped up that seemed to indicate to me that there was some promise in using NAC to mitigate the amplitude of the ups and downs that could be associated with say bipolar.
29:23
And that that's the primary reason that for for periods of time and I cycle off of all of these things, I become very fascinated by NAC which quite nicely does have potentially recovery benefits from an athletic standpoint, although most of my athletic prowess has been focused on eating oatmeal cookies recently, so I can't really claim that I'm doing a lot of uh killer workouts.
29:46
I I got rabdo from eating oatmeal cookies.
29:49
For you CrossFitters out there, that's for you.
29:52
But uh the other would be something you and I are both familiar with which with a which is low-dose lithium orotate. Mhm.
30:00
Very very low-dose lithium orotate 5 mg which you can find on Amazon and elsewhere.
30:07
And uh there's a great New York Times article which people can find very easily that is titled along the lines of maybe we all just need a little bit of lithium and it talks about the inverse correlation of groundwater concentrations of lithium with I want to say at least reported suicide, homicide, manic depression, uh and so on.
30:28
So those two for me function in tandem or at least appeal to me for very similar reasons.
30:37
So the NAC, should you use it or not, I think is a question of whether you feel you need it.
30:43
And for me, at least currently, uh I I get asked all the time, like, "What are your top 10 supplements that you're using right now?"
30:51
Because people have this impression after reading The 4-Hour Body and so on that I'm I'm just like I I walk around with a drip IV bag in my arm and have a thousand pills I'm taking four times a day.
31:03
I've certainly seen you in that mode.
31:05
No, you have seen me in that mode, but my mode right now is to really ensure that I am using supplements as supplements.
31:14
And that I'm not using them to absolve me of the responsibility to eat proper food, for instance.
31:20
And it's like, look, if you're drinking a lot and you're like compulsively watching porn and not exercising and like mainlining Pixy Stix for your diet and you're like, "Wow, I'm depressed.
31:31
Maybe I should take 15 different supplements."
31:33
It's like, no, you need to [ __ ] fix the rest of your life. Right, right, right.
31:36
And then see what your baseline is because you're creating so much static and noise and garbage inputs that you don't even know what your baseline is.
31:44
It's It's so disguised with sort of the the trauma and confusion of your inputs that you need to Do you track your baseline?
31:52
Like, do you log what you what you consume and what you take?
31:56
I log You know, my baseline, this is going to sound so primitive and it is, but my baseline is really how do I feel when I wake up?
32:06
You know, do I do I want to stay in bed because I don't want to face the day? Am I anxious?
32:09
Are those my first thoughts coming out of bed?
32:12
Assuming that I'm not checking my phone, right?
32:14
Because I'm it it's really my starting state out of the gate of wake sleep to wakefulness.
32:23
And then at night, how much trouble do I have sleeping?
32:25
If any, or do I fall asleep easily? How deep is my sleep?
32:27
And so for deepness of sleep, you could certainly use something like an Oura Ring or an accelerometer.
32:33
I mean, there are different means by which you could try to assess the quality of your sleep, but for me really looking at how consistently I feel good waking up and how long it takes me to get up to say first or second gear cuz it it it it historically has taken me a long time to go from park to like second or third gear.
32:56
Some people wake up, you might be one of these people and they're like [ __ ] it world, here I am, I'm ready to party. That's not me.
33:02
It's like I have a real slow build And I think I'm in between you and that.
33:06
I am definitely not ready to party the second I wake up. I am after coffee.
33:10
A cup of coffee and I'm ready to party.
33:12
so I feel that way if for instance I'm in ketosis past about 2 millimolars. Mhm.
33:17
I need less sleep, so let's call it 6 versus 8 hours and when I wake up I am awake versus feeling groggy for an hour or two, hour and a half.
33:27
Uh which can be remedied somewhat by the psychological advantage of exercising in the morning, which is one thing I've been scheduling to do more of per uh Jocko Willink uh retired uh Navy SEAL commander and all around Yeah, he's a badass.
33:43
intense intense accomplished guy.
33:43
Uh people can find him tim.
33:45
blog/jocko first ever public interview.
33:50
Uh so I'm I'm thrilled to have unleashed the giant white gorilla on the internet.
33:55
And uh baseline though to return to your question is really something I try to keep as simple as possible.
34:01
Do I and have I measured all those other things? Yes.
34:05
But I think that whether it's with your body or with a business or any number of other things, it's really easy to become addicted to measuring things that don't matter very much. Mhm.
34:17
Uh or uh worse still measuring things that will distract you from the things that do matter. Does that make sense? Yeah.
34:26
Yeah, that totally makes sense. Yeah.
34:28
Um I I've I I've tried to kind of pair it down to the just the stuff I really care about.
34:34
I just sent you a link uh in our video chat um to my dashboard for the things I measure every day. Cool.
34:38
Um, so for me, you know, I'm really concerned about my glucose levels cuz they are a tiny bit elevated.
34:44
So, I do waking glucose, bedtime glucose.
34:48
I do whether I meditated that day or not.
34:49
I do how many hours I fasted the night prior.
34:52
I do how many drinks I've had.
34:54
And then I do what type of workout, whether I had tea or coffee that day, and then my food.
34:58
But food not in terms of kind of a a bike by the calorie, you know, super anal kind of breakdown, but really just typing out what I ate for that day as a way to hold myself accountable and just like look over the last few days at a glance and see if I've been behaving or not.
35:15
So, I find that just the act of writing it down makes me behave a little bit better. It does.
35:21
Okay, that was going to be my question is how does that actually impact your behavior?
35:25
Yeah, I you know, I this is a fascinating question.
35:30
I I've I did an experiment here about um 3 weeks ago with a group of five friends.
35:36
And I asked them all I I created this um spreadsheet that we all logged into every single day.
35:42
And what you do is you record the number of drinks you had the night before.
35:48
And I I was thinking about turning this to into an app, although I'm not going to do it, but I was interested in trying to create social pressure to drink less.
35:58
Not to drink more, but to drink less.
36:00
And the thing that I found that was really interesting is that if you drink over two drinks in a night, people have some shame in reporting that.
36:08
And so, they will misreport.
36:08
And so, you know, if you went out and you had like four or five drinks, it's like, "Oh, I don't want to be the the guy that had you know, four or five drinks." on the spreadsheet. Right, exactly.
36:17
So, I changed it then so the spreadsheet would only say two plus.
36:22
And so, that's the max you could go.
36:24
And then people were a lot more like, open to being like, "Yeah, I had two plus last night."
36:30
You know, they were a lot more at ease. Right.
36:31
But it still created a little bit of social pressure and personal pressure.
36:35
If you looked at your list and you're like, "Ooh, there's been four nights of two plus there.
36:37
I should probably do a night without drinking, right?"
36:40
So, my idea was to create an app that would allow you just to say up to two plus and see all of your friends in the same arena and then kind of hopefully encourage you to be able to drink socially but not take it too far.
36:53
Yeah, this brings up all sorts of really fascinating and frustrating methodological questions in terms of designing this type of reporting, right?
37:03
Because I was thinking to myself as you were saying this, well, if you had a larger group, say a group of 200 people, Mhm.
37:09
you would have one would expect you would have more people in that group reporting drinking two, three, four drinks on any given night. Right.
37:18
So, the shame factor would be decreased, but if you decrease the shame factor, that also decrease the incentive to actually behave, right?
37:27
Because you can blend into this Right.
37:31
perceived acceptability of being like, well, there are the 10 other people out of 200 who had four drinks last night. That's totally fine.
37:37
Well, well, the question is like how well do you know the people?
37:40
One, so how tight are they are in your like kind of social connections and your your peer group?
37:44
And then also, I think that there is when I like Brendan Mulligan, I'll call him out cuz he's a friend of ours. Uh he works at Google. He like never drinks.
37:53
Like he's like one drink, one drink.
37:53
You know, like one drink every four days or whatever.
37:56
And seeing him hit those streaks of like zero drink, zero drink, that was also a pretty powerful thing and I'm saying I need to be more like Brendan. I need to dial it back. So, it goes both ways. Yeah, that's true.
38:06
I suppose if you're seeing friends of yours doing well who doing well, who have demanding jobs, demanding relationships, you can't use that as your excuse when you have the data right in front of you showing Right.
38:22
that they're actually behaving.
38:24
So, you you uh you historically have been a a non-trivial drinker, let's call it.
38:28
Uh a a let's like a minor league all-star of of booze consumption.
38:36
to drink a lot more, to be honest.
38:36
You can see my spreadsheet here.
38:38
So, what has helped you most to decrease the amount that you drink?
38:44
Well, I think there is fear.
38:47
Um you know, I I've seen a bunch of studies.
38:49
There was one that was just published here a couple weeks ago that that said the number one um uh the largest study ever around uh dementia and alcohol abuse and um they're very closely linked, which is really frightening.
39:01
Um and I think just, you know, wanting to live longer for my daughter has been another one.
39:05
Back to the point that you had um earlier about what what has changed.
39:09
Um and just getting older.
39:09
You know, hangovers get happen at two and a half drinks these days. Right.
39:14
And so, it's like, why why roll the dice?
39:16
And so, for me, it's um it's finding uh to to to get to your question around what have I done differently, there's a couple things.
39:25
Um One, I've I kind of set aside time to learn at night, which I think is really important.
39:33
And you really can't drink and learn at the same time.
39:35
So, um you know, Or or remember what you attempt to learn. Right, exactly.
39:39
And the second thing that has been huge for me, though, has been the sauna.
39:42
The sauna has been massive because it is like four drinks or three drinks just by going and doing a 30-minute high-intense heat sauna session.
39:53
Um and you come home and you sleep like a baby.
39:54
And, you know, if you don't have a sauna, that can also be substituted with a really hot bath.
40:00
And just finding ways to it it's like it's always been about I'm with my wife, I'm sitting down, and we're going to crack open a bottle of wine, and I'll have a couple glasses of wine.
40:09
It's never been like, "Hey, let's go party."
40:12
Those days are long gone.
40:12
Like, you know, a decade plus gone.
40:16
Um I've I've No, don't look at me like that.
40:19
A decade plus if we're out traveling together, Tim, I'm going to we're going to have fun, right?
40:24
[laughter] So, the only times that you and I hang is like when we're traveling together.
40:28
So, you can't like you can't put that on me. That's true. All right. All right, fair enough.
40:32
We're in different cities now.
40:32
I I will say for those people who are like, wait, they can see each other.
40:35
Uh, we are doing a very intimate uh video chat on Skype that you you will be able to see on my YouTube channel. Just youtube.
40:44
com/timferriss two r's two s's.
40:46
And Kevin is dressed for success, I will note.
40:48
He is [laughter] I I just had a partner meeting this morning, so you dress up a little bit. No, I appreciate it. I appreciate it.
40:55
So, uh so, I gave you that look.
40:56
Traveling's a bit of an exception.
40:59
Now, how do you prevent yourself you like you have traveled a lot in some cases historically.
41:05
Now, that may change with your daughter, but how do you prevent that from becoming the excuse to drink that happens frequently. Does that make sense?
41:17
Because this happens in all sorts of capacities, right?
41:18
Where people will say, oh, you're traveling, you should eat pizza every night, right?
41:22
I I hear that and I'm like, if I if I followed that rule, I'll be Jabba the Hutt because I'm I I end up traveling so much.
41:28
If I allowed myself that out, it would become a real problem. Yeah.
41:34
Yeah, traveling is is difficult and especially when it's in kind of a a social setting.
41:38
You know, if you combine traveling with social, like, you know, I'll be going to um to to Ted in a couple weeks and I know that there's just going to be a lot of parties and a lot of events and a lot of drinking.
41:49
So, um I I think that's one of the things that I need to work on is that I have a hard time dealing with like large groups of people that I don't know.
41:58
And as a social lubricant, alcohol is amazing, right?
42:01
So, it's like what else can we do?
42:04
And And I think that that someone was telling me this that um you know, you never really strengthen that muscle like if you're leaning on the crutch of alcohol.
42:13
So, you're never going to become more uh comfortable with new humans and new interactions and new ways of like kind of breaking the ice if you always just go to the booze, right?
42:24
So, I think of it as like, okay, this is my workout I'm going into.
42:26
And the other thing I do is I So, I got a couple little hacks.
42:30
One is to show up a little bit late.
42:32
So, you then you skip a drink, right?
42:34
And it's funny how if you skip a drink or two and you get there and people are already a little hammered, how unattractive and unappealing drinking them becomes.
42:42
Because you're looking at everyone like, "Hey, it's good to see you."
42:45
You know, and it's like a little bit sloppy and it's all And you look at that and you're like, "Okay, they're relaxed.
42:49
They're not going to like, you know, remember what I said anyway."
42:53
Not [snorts] not that that that hammered, but you know what I mean.
42:56
They're they're in a relaxed state.
42:56
So, I can be a little bit more jokey and be myself and not have to worry about being hammered.
43:01
And so, I think that that's a big piece of it.
43:03
Um you know, when I'm at home, you're going to laugh at this, but on Amazon, I went and I bought these um speaking of buying more things and probably I'm going to throw away in a year.
43:13
Um I bought these measuring cups that measure out exactly one glass of wine. Oh.
43:19
And so, what I do there is like, you know, a a bottle of wine, we all know is like kind of like a half bottle wine is like kind of two and a half maybe, you know, it's it's it's up there.
43:28
And it's very easy like like Darya will just like have a little bit less than me and I'll say, "Okay, well, I'll just wait till it gets halfway and then I'll stop, you know."
43:36
I'll just try and But you're actually drinking more than you think.
43:39
So, Yeah, plus with a wine glass, I mean, if you have a large wine glass, you can drink like a third of a bottle or close to a half a bottle very easily. Right, exactly.
43:47
So, what I do now is I bought this measuring um glass off of Amazon.
43:52
I fill that perfectly, pour it in, get my second glass, fill it perfectly, and pour it in.
43:56
And so, that's all of my alcohol for the night.
44:00
It stops me at two drinks.
44:00
And I I I really take my time with it then.
44:03
You know, I have dinner, I slowly sip it, I look at it.
44:06
You know, I go sit down, might watch a little John Oliver or something and then just like continue to sip on it.
44:13
And so that's my my way of locking in.
44:13
I know no more past that.
44:15
It prevents any hangovers.
44:18
You know, my doctor says it's it's pretty good for you to have a glass or two a night, so Um and then also Dude, don't laugh at me. It is good for you. Okay. Yes, yeah. I'll go with that.
44:31
[laughter] No, but then it's also just taking nights off altogether.
44:33
I think that's the other big piece of it. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Good for you, man. I I love it.
44:38
Now, you you mentioned one other thing actually a couple of other points cuz I've been also cutting back on alcohol quite a bit.
44:47
I still enjoy alcohol, not going to lie.
44:49
Like I do have booze on occasion.
44:52
I love your drunk like uh Oh, the drunk dials? Yeah.
44:56
Yeah, you know, I those are those are fun.
44:59
So for those who don't know, occasionally I do these drunk dial episodes where I will the laziest podcast format thought up [laughter] I think to date, perhaps, which is I have listeners fill out a Google form
45:13
with their contact info uh and I set a time, like a 2-hour window where I will call people via Skype and drink start drinking at call one and drink all the way through to say call 10 and get progressively more enebriated as I answer questions. So that that is fun. So that that is fun.
45:32
I did one about a week ago. It was a good time.
45:34
And then I thought, you know, I should do another episode today and I was like, I just don't want to do two nights of [laughter] sipping tequila on Skype.
45:40
And a few things that have also helped me.
45:45
Number one is and this is not an excuse everyone's going to be comfortable using, but if I go to a party and they're like, "Hey man, you're not drinking? What the fuck?"
45:53
Like ah you should have done that.
45:54
I'll be like, "Yeah, I'm on a bunch of weird drugs."
45:56
Like I just actually I I'm not really supposed to take I'm I'm supposed to drink alcohol right now, which Oh, that stops the conversation right there. That's brilliant.
46:04
Yeah, well, it stops the push, Right.
46:07
and then it also starts another conversation, which is well, what kind of weird [ __ ] are you on?
46:10
And if you at any given point, I think it's fair to say that I could answer in the affirmative to are you on any weird [ __ ] Like I'm almost always doing something odd.
46:21
Uh it might not be a lot of stuff, but I'm probably trying something new.
46:23
And uh that stops people cold. If they're like, oh wow.
46:27
I mean, it could be Tylenol.
46:28
Like if you're taking acetaminophen in any capacity, people may not realize this, but some absurd percentage of emergency room visits and uh liver failures are associated with high dose um acetaminophen, which is not that much.
46:43
It's something like two or three times the label allowable amount over 24 hours.
46:49
It's really a potent and potentially dangerous drug.
46:53
Uh so that's one is like, hey, I'm actually on this.
46:55
I'm actually on A, B, and C, or I'm on a bunch of weird stuff at the moment, and I'm just not supposed to drink. Uh works really well.
47:01
And second, this is actually advice that Richard Branson gave on this podcast is having club soda with a dash of cranberry juice or something like that.
47:11
And just using that as your default go-to.
47:19
And uh you know, one thing that I do, which is going to sound really odd, and it is odd, but I have a superstition about say cheersing, right?
47:29
Clinking glasses when I don't have any alcohol in my glass. Oh, interesting. So, this is your tell.
47:36
This is This is something Well, it's kind of a tell, but what I'll do is I will sometimes also go up to the bar, and I'll say, just give me a tiny splash.
47:45
Like a Like the equivalent amount that would be in a thimble or something like that.
47:50
And then I'll then I'll cut myself off at that.
47:52
And that's the amount that I allow myself.
47:55
That's another approach that I take to cut back on on the on the booze.
47:57
You mentioned though that you've been trying to learn at night and that the booze is not conducive to learning at night.
48:06
What are you trying to learn at night?
48:08
What types of things and what's the format?
48:10
Are you reading 100 pages a night or what does it look have you heard of this Coursera course called learning how to learn? I have not. Who teaches that? Oh.
48:18
Oh, so it's done by a couple professors and I'm actually in the middle of that right now.
48:21
Um it was another kind of biohacker recommended it to me.
48:26
Yeah, apparently it's the number one watched course on Coursera right now and it's just been fascinating how they dig into the science of learning and like how um you go in this kind of like focused or diffuse mode and how to really go in and concentrate on something and when the optimal time is to learn and it's all the science around learning.
48:44
What if So that Oh, sorry to interrupt. Go ahead.
48:48
Oh, I'm just getting I'm just getting started with it.
48:48
So that's that's what I've been diving into and kind of spending my nights watching those videos.
48:53
Um but it it talks about the importance of actually getting away from your material.
48:58
So like getting really focused and setting a timer for 25 minutes maximum, going really in-depth on the the the course material and then backing away and kind of going into this more relaxed mode.
49:08
Um they were talking about how uh was it um Benjamin Franklin?
49:11
I can't remember who it was that used to hold a a pair of keys in their hand and then you kind of and Salvador Dalí did this as well actually.
49:18
Hold a pair of keys in your hand, you kind of just go into this relaxed state thinking about um what you want to learn and to where you almost fall asleep and when you drop the keys out of your hand and it wakes you up, that's when you kind of go back and then you realize you were successful at getting that that relaxed and you'll retain and become more creative and I don't know, it's just fascinating stuff.
49:37
And so I'm I'm just getting started with the course. It's free. Very cool.
49:40
Yeah, the uh the intervals and the duration of intervals for learning along with break periods is is something that I've experimented a lot with as it relates to language learning because it's so measurable.
49:52
You can look at say your recall of foreign vocabulary assuming you're controlling for a few different variables, right?
50:00
So adjectives are generally going to be harder than nouns for instance, but if you are controlling for that, you can look at what your retention is say 48 hours later for 100 words you attempted to learn in one session versus two sessions versus three sessions with different types of breaks.
50:18
And I did that when I was looking at a few different languages specifically were 2004-2005.
50:22
I actually have never shown you these notes.
50:24
I have text to edit documents with all of my notes on language learning for about a year year-long period looking at all of this type of stuff. Mhm.
50:33
And uh there were some very clear patterns such as focusing on the material right before bed. Mhm. Right? With no interruption.
50:43
So much like how it's recommended by many names both of you and I know that you meditate first thing in the morning before you brush your teeth, before you check your phone, before anything else.
50:55
When you have this tabula rasa blank state of sorts.
51:01
Uh focusing on material that you want to consolidate in memory and recall later right before bed.
51:07
Uh at least in my experience dramatically improves recall.
51:11
And then this is actually very important not just doing that, but when you wake up before doing anything else which for for me would override meditation doing a recall exercise of some type.
51:19
I I tend to use flash cards to determine which have stuck and which have not.
51:27
So those that have not since I'm looking at language, I would usually I would give myself like a quarter of a second.
51:33
It couldn't be delayed because in speech you're not going to have luxury [laughter] of sitting there paused for long periods of time.
51:40
It would go back into the rotation for review you throughout that day and later that night.
51:45
Uh but that's that has proven really really helpful. How about exercise?
51:50
One of the things they mentioned in this course is this idea of doing cardiovascular exercise.
51:53
I believe it's post learning something new.
52:00
And apparently the science was saying that it just sticks um that much more.
52:03
I don't have any numbers in front of me, but it was it was something along Have you heard anything about that?
52:07
Uh so I have I have in terms of uh spacing or I'm sorry that the timing of exercise uh I I I have less clarity, but there's an entire book called Spark that talks about the among other things the role of exercise in education and learning and would point to things like BDNF, the release of brain-derived neurotrophic factor, which can be elicited through different types of exercise.
52:36
And you know, part of me thinks that uh when one says because these are the easiest to study or very often the easiest to study, cardiovascular exercise.
52:47
Uh this is where it comes down to try to become literate with reading scientific studies or understanding how things typically work.
52:55
So, as a couple of baselines, scientific studies usually use volunteer populations known as students.
53:02
And those students have 45-minute class blocks or 60-minute class blocks.
53:10
So, to keep those students busy, people are very often disincentivized from using shorter duration, say uh high-intensity training uh or or something like that, weightlifting for instance, resistance training.
53:24
Uh and if you want to as an experimenter design something that requires as little monitoring as possible, it's like, all right, stick them on a stationary bike, right?
53:33
If you have people doing burpees or deadlifts, like you actually need to I hate burpees.
53:36
Yeah, but you need to pay attention, right?
53:38
You need to pay attention if people are are lifting weights and so on.
53:41
There are more safety concerns.
53:42
So, I think that it just to point out perhaps the obvious that weightlifting is actually one of the most cardiovascular activities you could possibly engage in.
53:54
But, I I won't digress into that.
53:54
You can look at a book called Body by Science for for all the details and why that is the case.
54:00
But, it would make sense to me that exercise could certainly play a role in increasing cognitive function. Mhm.
54:04
But, one of the questions that I ask myself all the time when and this is a good question for people to ask themselves when they see a headline that makes a a scientific claim is what else could explain this?
54:18
Like, what else might explain this?
54:20
So, if you're looking at cardiovascular exercise right after some type of cramming with material you could make the argument that perhaps it's not the exercise at all.
54:32
It's the fact that they're going into a semi-mindless or meditative repetitive repetitive period where they're they're able to let their subconscious somehow work on the material, right? Right.
54:46
Well, that's exactly what this this course teaches is how to get into those periods. Yeah, 100%. Yeah.
54:50
So, the uh I have certainly seemed to observe that exercise in some capacity, for me it's generally some type of resistance training uh does have a positive effect on on learning.
55:07
So, yet another reason to get off your ass which is something I need to do more of. I've I've digressed.
55:10
I've fallen off the train a little bit, Kevin Rose. I'll be honest.
55:15
Uh but, I shall get back on the train. Uh You and me both. Yeah.
55:18
So, fortunately, you know, once you have a recipe that works, you have the confidence that you can get back on.
55:23
Uh that that's the good news, right?
55:26
With say the Fast Mimicking Diet, not that you should use that for body composition, but Fast Mimicking Diet or intermittent fasting which a lot of people use your app Zero for uh [snorts] or a slow carb diet plus a handful of things like kettlebell swings.
55:39
I just know this is why I'm not stressed out about being off the rails.
55:43
I kind of make make fun of myself about it.
55:48
Uh because it's like, "Look, if if I just follow the prescription, like follow the algorithm for 3 to 4 weeks, there's no magic involved." Yeah.
55:56
[laughter] It will work and I will have less like muffin top to grab when I'm in the sauna, which will [laughter] make which will make me happy.
56:02
Muffin top in the sauna is the worst.
56:06
Yeah, because you look down and you just see that little layer, this little boop.
56:09
Yeah, well, you you also have like the the glistening Cinnabon effect because you're sweating.
56:12
It's It's a really unattractive look. It's not a good look. It's not a good look.
56:17
[laughter] Um oh, one thing I did want to talk about uh which I think would be fun to chat about cuz we've both done it um real quick is the Tony Robbins. Yeah.
56:25
Yeah, let's talk about it, for sure.
56:25
So, So, you recently had I've done two different Tony Robbins events, uh UPW, Unleash the Power Within, which was my first event, and then more recently in December of this last year, Date With Destiny, which is a longer event. Oh, you did that?
56:40
I didn't know you did Date With Destiny as well. I did.
56:42
So, I've done two events and uh some people have had a bit of exposure to Date With Destiny through the I Am Not Your Guru documentary, which uh was was co-produced, in fact, by someone who's been on this podcast, Brian Koppelman, really accomplished filmmaker.
56:57
But, what was your experience like?
56:59
First Tony Robbins event?
56:59
Yeah, I mean, it was kind of crazy.
57:01
I I've um thanks to you, uh I got, you know, hooked up with him and uh and went down and and got a chance to meet him and and hang out with him.
57:11
Um I, you know, I think that Tony is this this kind of um he's proven himself now that he's been doing this for so long.
57:20
I mean, he's doing it for for 40-plus years, but I think that in in the back of my mind, I kind of remember when I was a little kid, the kind of like audio tape version, infomercial version of Tony, you know?
57:32
so there's always this stigma in my mind that was like, oh, is he trying to sell me something? What's going on here? You know?
57:37
And I I also watched his documentary and I was like, well, this guy is clearly brilliant.
57:43
He's takes this stuff very seriously and he's truly breaking through to people and helping people change their lives.
57:48
And so he was like, hey, I'm going to be in the Bay Area, you know, you should come down.
57:50
I was like, okay, that sounds awesome.
57:52
Took a buddy of mine that has a lot of anxiety and he shall go unnamed, but he wanted to go and he was like, Kevin, let's do this.
58:00
And I was like, okay, let's do it.
58:01
So went down for the three-day event and I thought it was great.
58:06
I got to tell you, it's you walk into it and I was in an arena where there was, you know, 12,000 people.
58:11
And so there is a lot of people there and everybody is coming there for a different reason, right?
58:18
So I was sitting across from a guy that had lost his legs and was a previously a drug addict and I think he had some infection in his legs or something had to have them both amputated.
58:28
I was sitting next to someone that she was running her own social media business and just wanted to like, you know, get better with her business and improve her her finances and she was getting through a relationship that she had just ended and, you know, so everyone had something to kind of come in and bring to the table.
58:43
Of course, we all do if we're honest with ourselves, everyone has someone they're something they're trying to work on.
58:47
And so, you know, I went in there and day one was awesome.
58:52
I mean, Tony got out there and he spoke for like, I don't know, 12 hours.
58:56
We were there until after midnight. mutant.
58:59
Yeah, it's it's unbelievable.
58:59
I don't even know when he pees.
59:01
Like I have no idea when he uses the bathroom. Or drinks water. Yeah, just Yeah.
59:05
Yeah, it's just a machine. The guy's a machine.
59:10
But, you know, I walked over the coals with him and he he was like, bring out some fresh coals for Kevin.
59:15
And of course, they put like fresh you walk you actually walk over coals at the end of the night. You've done this, right? yeah.
59:23
Did he bring out fresh coals for you?
59:24
I can't recall if he brought out fresh coals for me.
59:27
I think that might have been the the VIP treatment that you received.
59:30
It was a lot of fun and I think that the biggest takeaway for me was really um a a couple things.
59:40
One was definitely this thing called the Wheel of Life. Did you have to do that?
59:45
Will you fill out your wheel? I'm sure I did. I'm sure I did. Okay.
59:48
I And I should also point out that for the attendees at these events, and I'll I've a little bit more to say about this, but the exercises that really and they there are very tactical prescriptive exercises, but that the exercises that change someone else's trajectory and give them extremely concrete next steps that have an impact are very often completely different exercises from those that affect the person right next to you.
1:00:17
It's It's really something to behold, but tell us about the the Wheel of Life.
1:00:23
Yeah, so the Wheel of Life was interesting in that basically he gives you these areas of your life and you're to rank them from zero to 10 on how far along and how kind of just happy you are with those those areas.
1:00:38
So for example, physical body, right?
1:00:40
So for me I was like, "I got to give myself a four in this arena.
1:00:44
I could be doing a lot better."
1:00:44
And then there's emotions and meaning.
1:00:46
Another one is relationships. Another one is time.
1:00:50
Another one is your career and your mission in life.
1:00:52
Um and then there's finances and then the last one is how you contribute, like how you give back, how you celebrate and contribute.
1:01:02
And so you go from from kind of zero to 10 and you rank these out and you'll see my wheel doesn't actually look like a wheel.
1:01:08
It's like kind of lopsided, but that's by that's by design.
1:01:11
By the time you you look at this, it gives you a clear view of like, "Okay, I really need to step out how I contribute and give back."
1:01:20
And so that allowed me to go really deep in my own personal life and and say, "What does it mean to contribute and give back for me?"
1:01:26
And like, you know, you and I have both done um things in in terms of like going out and uh you know, charity water, the Tony Hawk Foundation, and giving away money, but like just supporting a cause and and writing a check.
1:01:43
Um I don't know how you feel about this, but for me it doesn't really mean it mean that I'm giving back.
1:01:49
I don't really feel like I'm contributing.
1:01:50
Yes, I'm giving like cash, but I'm not actually taking part in that process.
1:01:55
I'm not actually really helping out.
1:01:57
Like anyone can write a check.
1:02:00
Um so, what does it mean for me to contribute?
1:02:02
And the thing the realization that I came to and actually there's some really powerful mo- moments in this this conference where they turn out the lights and they like make you revisit like certain times in your childhood and all these things.
1:02:12
And you know, I felt myself kind of tearing up because one of the things I realized that I was not giving back and in contributing in a meaningful way.
1:02:19
And the thing that I came to and that I realized is that my mother was um verbally abused by my father for many many many years.
1:02:28
And um you know, definitely abusive behavior.
1:02:34
Um never physically harmed her, but you know, I would say that the mental harm was is is bad or if not worse than than some of the physical harm.
1:02:40
And and um I realized that I want to actually lean in and help out women that have been abused and that are in currently in abusive relationships.
1:02:48
And so, a goal of mine over the next couple years is finding the best um possible way to contribute back to that.
1:02:55
Not just in forms of another check, but actually how I can get involved.
1:02:59
And whether it means helping them build their products and build a better website or mobile apps or any way that I can enable and use my technology skills to help um with their business I think would be something that would mean a lot to me.
1:03:11
So, that was that was a great experience to have.
1:03:12
And I wouldn't have that if it wasn't for Tony.
1:03:15
And I and and that was just one of many things I got out of the weekend.
1:03:19
So, I I would say that, you know, he's he's a badass.
1:03:21
It was it was pretty awesome.
1:03:24
Yeah, he he's a real master of his craft.
1:03:26
And what I would say to folks uh who have a certain image of Tony is that when you go to an event like this, I think the right away to approach it is to be skeptical but not cynical and open to trying all of the exercises he suggests.
1:03:49
And that there're going to be components that may not agree with you in the sense that there's a lot of jumping around, there's a lot of music, there's a lot of noise for lack of a better word, and a lot of those elements made me uncomfortable.
1:04:05
They're not things that I would seek out.
1:04:07
Oh my god, I could not see you dancing and jumping around. Right? Right?
1:04:09
It's it's it's just not my thing.
1:04:12
So, but the filter that I used going into it or the lens through which I was looking at it was I it was made easier because one of my one of my very close friends I've known since college, who's had multiple company exits, is extremely extremely accomplished, and he goes to Unleash the Power Within every year as a reset.
1:04:33
He's been 11 times, maybe 12 now.
1:04:35
He's been to Date with Destiny six times.
1:04:37
And this and this guy is not a seminar junkie.
1:04:42
He's not someone who avoids the work and goes to listen to a motivational speech so that he can feel better on a sugar high for 2 days and not take any next steps.
1:04:51
Like, this is not that guy. He is an operator.
1:04:55
So, the fact that he had been so many times uh really led me to want to stick with the entire event.
1:05:02
And I'm like I'm not going to lie, I had hard points.
1:05:04
And then, I mentioned this to you, and it may not be the exercise that had a a large impact on you, but the Dickens process that I ended up along with Tony uh including in Tools of Titans, one of my more recent books, because it had such a big impact, made the entire event an easy like 10 to 100 extra turn for me. Mhm.
1:05:25
That was the last day, too. That's right.
1:05:27
So, just that 30 to 60-minute exercise led me to dramatically improve my relationship with my father, to take responsibility for certain things that I had been telling myself were unchangeable, to really buckle down and step into discomfort to make some meaningful changes.
1:05:47
And it And the Those are changes uh at least The Power Within, I want to say I went to Now, it's got to be 3 to 5 years ago.
1:06:00
Uh those changes, the ripple effects of those changes that I made then, are still very tangible now.
1:06:05
And then Date With Destiny, very similar.
1:06:08
But to go into it expecting that if you step into it and accept some level of discomfort and commit to trying everything, this is just my view, that at least 50% you're going to end up discarding.
1:06:25
Probably 20% you're going to find really uncomfortable and you're going to dislike actively.
1:06:28
And then like 10 to 25% you're going to go, "Holy [ __ ] I can't believe how powerful that just was."
1:06:36
And it's not a lot of hand-wavy, woo-woo ambiguity.
1:06:39
These exercises really, really, really specific.
1:06:41
So, you don't have to accept Tony as your one and only savior.
1:06:45
You don't have to believe that he is flawless because he is not.
1:06:47
He's just like everyone else.
1:06:49
He's imperfect creature trying to do the best with the gifts and talents he's developed.
1:06:57
Uh but the guy knows his [ __ ] And he actually He actually really cares.
1:06:59
And as I've gotten to know him over the last few years, more and more so, I've become more impressed with him, not less impressed.
1:07:07
Um and that is at least, if one were thinking of, let's say, attending one of these events, and I have no I have zero vested interest in sending anyone to these events, other than they they've had a material impact on my life, and that's why I was I was happy to see that you were going to attend.
1:07:25
Uh that they go in with an open mind expecting that, much like if you read any type of book, you're not expecting every line to be a life-changing piece of gold.
1:07:37
You're hoping that net net, it's going to be worth the time that you invested. Yeah. Right? And I Yeah.
1:07:45
That's been my takeaway, that it's absolutely been worth the time invested. Yeah, 100% agree.
1:07:47
And I think that um like you, going into this was a certainly a really uncomfortable thing for me in terms of when they first start the music, and and people come out on stage, and they start dancing, and like you can tell the people that have been there before, cuz they immediately like jump out of their seats and like start like kind of rocking out and throwing their hands in the air.
1:08:10
And I'm thinking to myself, I hate dancing. I hate dancing.
1:08:15
I've never liked dancing with anyone, my wife or anyone.
1:08:17
I always feel so awkward when I'm doing it, you know?
1:08:21
Like I'm like a geek that likes to like sit in front of my computer at night.
1:08:25
And so, it's like then I thought something another friend had told me that had gone and said, "Hey, Kevin, like you just have to go with it.
1:08:33
Like if you want to get anything out of it, you have to realize that he's doing this by design to put you into a certain state, right?
1:08:38
you into a certain state, right? He wants to get to get you in the into an optimal state and an optimal That can mean like Like one one example of one thing that we did is we took something um that was very serious to us, like something like a limiting belief that you would held so seriously, and you say it out loud in a very joking and like
1:08:57
laughing way, and everybody, like 12,000 people are all doing it at the same time, and you're like laughing and saying it, and it's kind of like breaking it down in your in your mind and letting you know that you don't have to take it so seriously and you can joke about it and have fun with it because it's been forever since since um you know you've probably ever done that in your life. Like you The when was the
1:09:15
Like you The when was the last time you were able to take something that you held so seriously and so guarded and and and have a good time with it.
1:09:22
And so he knows how to set up these little traps for you that that trick you into reframing things in your mind and it really does change your long-term perspective on things and yeah, I I I'm dude, I'm a fan.
1:09:33
I would definitely go back again.
1:09:35
I did the three-day event, the Unleash the Power Within, the same one as you.
1:09:38
Um but yeah, I had had fun with it.
1:09:40
So so thanks for helping out with that. Yeah, man. My pleasure.
1:09:44
man. My pleasure. I I would suggest also that uh that's that's Molly saying hello in the background for those people who can hear my dog barking, but that as as a as a point of social proof and of course Tony is fully aware of of the sort of
1:10:05
gravitas this would bring, but there are people, for instance, Marc Benioff of Salesforce, uh which I think has more than 10 billion in annual revenue now, uh who will point-blank say that Salesforce would probably not exist were it not for Tony Robbins and still attends some of these events. Uh he was
1:10:22
Uh he was right behind me at Date With Destiny. Crazy. Uh he's a big guy.
1:10:27
He's a big He He and Tony uh are are are very similar in size.
1:10:32
And then you have Paul Tudor Jones.
1:10:34
You have some of the most sophisticated traders and financial minds who have worked with Tony for 10 to 20 years.
1:10:44
And that's on an ongoing coaching basis because he does have very discrete, very tactical uh exercises and tools that help you to find blind spots and fully leverage the things that you're good at and so on.
1:11:00
So, it's uh It's not easy.
1:11:03
It's not comfortable, but uh certainly I've been I've been very uh benefited by the time that I've spent considering these things.
1:11:12
And I'm biased because uh in high school I read Unlimited Power by Tony, which had an impact.
1:11:18
I then, when I got out of college and had my first job, and I was commuting in my piece of [ __ ] minivan, this the green machine, which was just a a complete disaster of car, but I was trapped on 101 in the Bay Area, for people who know, just bumper-to-bumper in rush hour, to and from uh Mountain View to to San Jose to work.
1:11:41
And I would listen to this used set, I couldn't afford the full set, a new copy, so I had Personal Power II on cassette tape.
1:11:49
And listened to that, which helped get me to the point where I started my first company.
1:11:54
And uh so, Tony's made these appearances at very opportune moments in my life.
1:11:59
[laughter] And you know, he's he's not he Like I said, I don't go to him for all things.
1:12:05
I don't think that Tony has the answer to everything.
1:12:08
But with particular types of self-imposed narratives and handicaps that you have built yourself, or walls around certain types of thinking, or certain types of emotions, that perhaps served you very well in the past, but no longer serve you, he is exceptionally good at helping you work through all of that. Yeah.
1:12:28
I just love that this whole genre, like the self-help genre, is becoming like it it's not as frowned upon as it used to be.
1:12:35
Like, I don't know if you you remember, but probably, you know, 10, 15, 20 years ago, like if you went to that area of like the bookstore, you were like, oh, oh, look at like who's in the self-help section, like they must There must be something wrong with them.
1:12:48
And now now, no, seriously, do you used to be the case, and now it's like it's gone and he's probably at the center of it, but it's become this idea of not self help it's just really just like this idea that we're all on a journey of lifelong learning and we all are done BSing ourselves and there's not a single person that has all of life figured out.
1:13:08
So, why don't we all actively openly work on this together and I think it's awesome.
1:13:12
Yeah, and I should also say that at one point as as an example, I was interviewed on the BBC and Uh they wanted to talk about the self-help genre and I knew it was going to be a set up, right?
1:13:25
I I knew that they wanted me to defend self-help and they wanted to attack self-help, right?
1:13:31
So, and I knew this going in that this is what it was going to be or I figured it out about an hour beforehand when I got some notes and I was like, oh, I see where this is going.
1:13:38
[laughter] So, they they bring me out.
1:13:41
This is a this is a television show and they say, "Good evening, Mr. Ferriss.
1:13:47
We just wanted to talk about da da da da da bio bio bio blah blah blah.
1:13:51
What is your general opinion of the self-help genre?"
1:13:53
Something along those lines.
1:13:55
And in effect, I said, "I think 99.
1:13:55
9% of it is just horse shit."
1:13:59
And I said it's it pains me sometimes to be associated with the label self-help uh for X, Y, and Z reasons.
1:14:05
And then that they didn't have a leg to stand on, right?
1:14:08
Because I'd taken their side of the argument, which was kind of hilarious. [laughter] Funny.
1:14:12
Funny. And uh and then I said, "But at the same time, I think the label self-help has in many cases an unfairly negative connotation because A, if you look at almost any type of reading whether it's a novel where people want to escape or it's non-fiction where they're hoping to
1:14:32
learn more about let's just call it Andrew Carnegie or you name the figure there is there is some motive behind that that they hope to help them whether it's a shift of emotion, the gathering of knowledge so they can impress people at a dinner party or otherwise. And that
1:14:48
And that if I were to look at who I would say potentially emulate in the world of self-help, it would probably be be someone like, and this is the name you brought up earlier, Ben Franklin. Right?
1:15:00
And who most certainly uh wrote extensively about what we would consider today self-help, but he's not lumped into the category of, say, potential, and these people do exist, certainly charlatans who are just selling a a bill of goods that doesn't deliver, right?
1:15:18
There are plenty of people who have not walked the walk and talk extensively about their expertise and make recommendations and prescriptions.
1:15:27
There are people all over the world in every possible discipline who do this, and a lot of them tend to concentrate in this section of the bookstore called self-help, unfortunately.
1:15:39
But it's it's that alone isn't enough to disqualify something, and certainly if we look at these the popularity of tutorials on YouTube, for instance, of in any possible subject matter, if you look at the popularity of the Creative Lives and the Courseras and so on. Sure.
1:15:59
Uh everyone now has access to expertise that even 10 years ago would have cost hundreds of thousands of dollars to access if they had the ability at all.
1:16:10
You look at, say, Harvard, MIT, Stanford, many of these schools that are putting uh their courses online, in some cases for free access.
1:16:18
And I know people who have taught themselves to code in this way.
1:16:22
All of that is self-help. Right? Yeah.
1:16:25
So, it's it's important, I think, that people not uh disqualify exploring certain realms because of a label that really represents a concept which may or may not apply to what it is you're examining.
1:16:39
Yeah, I mean, there's going to be scammers in every genre, too. Yeah.
1:16:43
I love I love how you Rogan, I don't know if you've seen these posts that he's done recently, but he does videos of these martial artists legit as [ __ ] Yeah.
1:16:48
Yeah, where they can they can throw people with their mind. Yeah, yeah.
1:16:53
Yeah, Joe Rogan puts up these fake martial arts videos.
1:16:55
I mean, they're not fake.
1:16:56
They're videos of people who actually believe that what's happening is happening.
1:16:59
But yeah, these these like martial arts masters, self-described, throwing people across the room with their chi explosions and so on.
1:17:05
And his caption is usually legit as [ __ ] Or hashtag legit as [ __ ] So good. So good.
1:17:12
[laughter] Yeah, there's a lot of nonsense out there, but uh it doesn't mean that everything within a certain category is nonsense. Yeah.
1:17:19
And it doesn't mean you should spend your entire life filtering for the 1%, but also there are ways that you can assess the validity of different paths.
1:17:27
And quite frankly, I would recommend for those people who haven't, well, I'll give you two recommendations.
1:17:32
So, one is you can look at the back of the 4-Hour Body if you already have it.
1:17:36
There's an appendix, which is effectively how to spot bad science.
1:17:41
And it will help you to not trick yourself, and also to get better at avoiding being tricked.
1:17:47
Uh so, that's that's one recommendation.
1:17:50
And and not to seem like I'm selling my own book, the excerpts for that appendix are from a book called Bad Science by a doctor named Ben Goldacre, which is absolutely fantastic.
1:18:02
So, if you just want to be literate uh and better able scientifically literate or better able to separate the signal from the noise with the deluge of information that we are assaulted by every day, I would highly recommend that uh you check out one or two one or both of those resources.
1:18:20
You know, I was going to ask you, um Tools of Titans, I mean, obviously in your books there have been tons of book recommendations. Yeah.
1:18:27
And there was that one kid.
1:18:30
Do you remember the kid that that like took all and he he created he took took out all the books out of your recommendations and ranked them? Yeah.
1:18:38
Yeah, ranked them or just organized them as thumbnails.
1:18:40
Yeah, I do remember that. Mhm.
1:18:42
Yeah, so the idea was that what is the most recommended book inside Tools of Titans across the board by all the people that were that were in that book and kind of stack ranking them based on the votes.
1:18:54
Do you have that list anywhere?
1:18:54
Do you have a list of like the most recommended books by all of your guests?
1:18:59
Yeah, I do actually and I'll pull it I'll pull it up right now because I put it I put it on the blog for for every That's a great way.
1:19:05
Yeah, I put it up a great way to cut through all the crap, you know?
1:19:09
Yeah, I put it up on the blog and if you give me a second, I will find where it is.
1:19:15
Uh this might take a second.
1:19:15
So, I'm looking at Tribe of Mentors the most recent.
1:19:18
Uh but the where would I find this? If you go onto tim.
1:19:25
blog and search like Tools of Titans books.
1:19:28
We can put a link in the show notes, right? in the show notes.
1:19:31
So, if you want a link, this will be the smarter way to do it.
1:19:34
If you want to see a page where the most commonly recommended books from Tools of Titans and from Tribe of Mentors combined, you're looking at about 500 different world-class performers of all different disciplines ranging from top professional athletes to chess prodigies to former generals uh certainly 12 plus billionaires, uh then you will get to see rank ordered in terms of frequency which books are most recommended.
1:20:02
So, I will put those in the show notes and you guys can find that at uh tim. blog/podcast.
1:20:09
Uh if you want to see, you know, of these people who are the best at what they do, which books across disciplines do they recommend most often?
1:20:14
A few of them just off the bat for people who are curious, uh Man's Search for Meaning by Victor Frankl uh Poor Charlie's Almanack by Charlie Munger Seeking Wisdom by Peter Bevelin uh and uh certainly Atlas Shrugged even though it's a controversial book, but Ayn Rand comes up a lot in terms of developing a sense of personal agency.
1:20:37
I think that has popped up quite a lot.
1:20:42
And many more, but I'll I'll give you the full list because there are some that pop up quite frequently uh that you won't recognize at all.
1:20:48
And those are to me oftentimes the the really fun ones to explore. Awesome.
1:20:55
Yeah, I've got a bunch of Audible credits waiting to be spent, so I'll do that. [laughter] Awesome, man.
1:21:00
I think that uh this is this is a solid catch-up.
1:21:03
Yeah, thanks for having me on and uh yeah, it was fun to chat.
1:21:07
And where where can people learn more about Kevin Rose?
1:21:10
Find you on the interwebs?
1:21:13
Certainly um my podcast is available at kevinrose. com.
1:21:18
Um and then also, if you want to check out my free meditation app, it's 100% free.
1:21:23
Um a little bit more traditional meditation, it's called Oak, and you can do that at oakmeditation. com. Nice and succinct. No social?
1:21:33
Uh I don't you know, Twitter at at Kevin Rose, but like I I don't know that I use it that much anymore.
1:21:37
I'm more a newsletter guy.
1:21:39
If you go to my website, if you sign up for my newsletter, I I do a once-a-month newsletter.
1:21:44
And that's that's kind of what I use. It's a good newsletter.
1:21:45
I subscribe to it, which I can't say for many.
1:21:47
And yeah, Twitter's Twitter's turned into a bit of a nasty neighborhood uh on most days.
1:21:52
You just feel like you're minding your business, whistling, walking down the street, and then you have people throwing potted plants at your head.
1:21:57
And then Facebook's a whole [ __ ] show, so it's like [laughter] it's the worst kind of show. What to do?
1:22:04
Go back to the tried and true. Instagram. Instagram or email? Yeah. All right, my man.
1:22:08
Uh well, thanks so much for taking the time and uh hope to see you soon.
1:22:12
Come Come Come visit Austin. I will.
1:22:16
Got a barrel sauna waiting for you. Awesome. All right, man. See you. See you.
1:22:21
And everybody listening or watching on the YouTubes, uh you can find links to everything that we've talked about in the show notes tim.
1:22:28
blog/podcast and until next time be safe do not take meth for fun uh follow professional advice with anything medically related and uh live the examined life just because it is self-help doesn't mean it can't help you so I will leave with that.