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This is such a great moment for me to have uh you in the studio right here.
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U for people who are watching or listening to this conversation, you just played some songs live on the radio which will be available to watch as well. So there's a twofer.
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Um but we're here to talk about life and we're here to talk quicksand and um >> you know three of the founding members of this band.
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Um they came together uh and and over the course of what's been you know just no different to anyone else's life journey, right?
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Ups and downs, challenges and triumphs.
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But most importantly, you sit here today with new music, with shows selling out, and you seem really, really happy. You called it a 2. 0.
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Are you having the most fun, do you think now?
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>> I think I I think what's really cool about now is that we've made this is our third record in like, you know, a kind of steady amount of time.
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So, it's been really nice to uh to have that progression, which we didn't have in the 90s.
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And when we did it in the '90s, it was like we were very very young and it was we kind of just got thrown out into this uh world of uh you know like MTV and you know big studios and all this kind of stuff and and it was going by very quickly whereas now I feel like we have more of a of a handle on it and uh you know kind I just appreciate it from a different perspective.
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you know, it's you have to work really hard in order to establish a relationship and foster a relationship with your audience, but ultimately you have way more of a say over that now if you choose to take that road.
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Whereas, to your point, back in the ' 90s, it was like if you don't appeal to the gatekeepers, >> there's nothing we can really do with you. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.
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I think you just get thrown at that time, which was an awesome time.
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I I I'm not saying it like, ah, that was lame.
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>> It was a good time for It was exciting, you know, where there was uh, you know, a certain amount of records that would come out on any given Tuesday and you had a choice between 16 and uh, you know, one of them would sell a million, maybe one would get a gold, a lot of
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them would die and some of them would get some sort of little cult status that would get them in there and and you know, I think we kind of fell into that and um, but that was like uh, there was so many people working in the industry and it was really really fun. But I
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But I think to your point, like now it's like we do it at our own pace and for our own motivations.
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You know, I don't feel like back then it'd be like if we're not the one that sells the platinum then there then that's bad. >> You know what I mean?
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And and now it's like >> we're very much more focused on like what do we get out of it?
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Like what's like in terms of like creatively uh putting it all together and and uh and and that's more valuable to us.
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>> You can hear it in the music.
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I mean, it feels very free and it feels very much like it's the three of you doing what you feel and that the external pressures have have have minimized.
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Um, and we're going to talk about that record in depth, but you know, we landed in in in the early stages.
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I want to stay there just for a little bit right now and ask you a question based on maturity, which is, you know, when the band broke up in the mid '90s when you decided to call Time for a few years, which was the beginning of the end really in that rig for that period of time.
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There was a quick comeback and then it was like, oh no, we're going to walk away from it.
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Um when you think back to the reasons behind that now, do you think that um immaturity played a role in that?
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Would you have made those decisions differently knowing what you know now?
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>> I mean there was a bit of immaturity, a bit of exhaustion, a bit of uh speaking for myself of of taking things for granted.
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Like one of the things that I realize now is the um having a chemistry is specific to the people that you play with.
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Like even if you do, you know, Walter is very prolific.
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He has a lot of projects and they're all great, but there's a specific thing with each one and the people that come together.
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And that was something I think that was lost on me at the time.
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Now it's it's super at the front of my mind.
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It's like there's nothing >> that this exists with us and that's it.
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>> And if you want this to exist, it takes us.
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And that's something that I that I appreciate greatly. >> Yeah.
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The beautiful letting go of your own sort of id and your identity and allowing yourself to accept the common space, you know.
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Um, Alan, I I want to ask you at what point in your life did you realize that 100% you that you had to some degree let something go that if with the benefit of some wisdom, you might have fought harder to hold on to.
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At that time, >> I think I I had reheard the tracks that we had recorded for a third record that we had that we never released.
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>> And it was a few years later.
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I've been playing with other bands and I was just in an airport and I listened to that those tracks and I just thought >> that's special chemistry. >> We had it. Yeah. >> Yeah.
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That was we were doing the right thing.
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We just burned ourselves out and we acted rashly and we would have you know it would have been fun to see where that went but luckily now I think we're like seeing where that went. >> Oh, for sure. Yeah, for sure. For sure.
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And um but what is it like to break up a band? Like is it dramatic? Does it just happen?
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Is it just like, "Oh, that's that."
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And you go and you just leave and then you find a way to reconnect on a different level. Like what was it like?
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I don't I want to know the spec specificity of what that feels like to end something.
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>> I think we're just like in the moment of like being on tour and the cumulative effect of being like on tour like all the time and um there's a certain cinematicness to it. You know what I mean?
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Like >> it's kind of dramatic, right? >> Yeah.
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You know, so maybe that's kind of a turnon. I don't know.
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a turnon. I don't know. like but it it's like um >> so funny you say that >> you know like but I think at that time too like there was no like the the thing that we got swept up in was uh was a sort of anomaly you know where like bands like ours were like getting played on the radio and stuff like that was very wild you know to to us and I I
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don't really know that I thought of music as like that I would be sitting here with you today I I thought this was something cool that I was doing at the time in a way and I I think in that way probably didn't really uh appreciate or recognize that this was something, you know, between us and for myself that was could be sustaining for so long. Not
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Not only like, you know, to make a living, which is super important, but um but more primarily like just as like always having like a mission, you know what I mean?
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always having something that you can do or strive toward that is not only going to like, you know, sort of scratch that creative itch, but also that you can share it with people.
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And then that that just like keeps bouncing around, you know what I mean?
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And and that's such a cool function.
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And the three of us have like not only this past from from the '9s that is like, >> you know, it seems so far away and yet is it's absolutely I could touch it. You know what I mean?
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know what I mean? as you you can hear us playing these two songs like they connect in in such a way and that's like us doing so much to and I just love the the sort of adventure of it you know >> it's actually the sweetest spot for a quick sand fan I think I've ever been
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because these new songs do perfectly encapsulate who you are today >> and also have this beautiful relationship with who you were the many use before and just hearing those two songs you know together it it regardless of the production or the environment they recorded in. They're like friends. They're like friends. Yeah, for sure.
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>> Our uh producer, the producer of this record, John Markson, while we were recording it had uh had the realization that this was kind of like our the third record of our second tenure, as well as the third record that never happened in our first tenure.
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So, it kind of exists as a fifth record. >> Interesting.
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>> But a third record twice over.
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>> So, what do you I mean, I I got to >> just blew your mind there. >> Yes.
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That's some men That's some meta >> Might need a moment to remember.
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>> No, I was trying to I was trying to phrase how I'm going to ask for this because on the one hand, like selfishly, I'm like, man, you got to send me this N this unreleased third record from the '90s.
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I don't really want to go and get it from the internet, even though I know some of it exists and kicks around. >> Yeah.
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But but you liked what you heard.
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When you don't put a record out, how does it make you feel?
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I can imagine it's quite complex.
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If I could guess, I'd imagine there's a part of you that feels like there's a big unresolved part of the experience, but then there's also kind of a sense of autonomy that you have about saying, I get to choose whether this comes out or not. >> Yeah.
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I think a lot of bands are are uh their charm will sometimes come out and the things that don't come out that you get like as a fan, you're like, "Oh my god, I'm hearing, you know, track 22 of uh Tax Man by the Beatles." You know what I mean?
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Like >> Prince the Black Album, you know?
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They just like, "Oh my god, are we ever going to hear this thing?" You know? >> Yeah.
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there's that that kind of relationship to it that as a as a fan, you know, like I appreciate that.
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And even just like as a objective to our own band, I'll listen to some things and just be like, "Oh man, I did not understand this song then." You know what I mean?
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And you're just not always on the plane of understanding what you're doing.
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And uh you're also contextualized by like what's going on with you at a certain time.
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And some things just don't make it.
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Um Sergio has a has a thing called the the the turtle theory where uh >> about composition. Yes. >> Yeah.
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So like there'll be like a turtle will come up on the beach, you know, and lay like a whole bunch of eggs.
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The turtle mom and then she'll just piece out and the eggs will start to hatch and these little turtles come out and they try to make it back to the beach to be like, you know, into the water.
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But a lot of them, those little guys aren't going to make it. >> Most of them don't. >> Most of them don't.
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>> And it's called the turtle theory.
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Yeah, >> this is the part of the nature shows that no one wants to watch.
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Man, this is the way to their functional function.
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They they they die so that the others can live so they help inform the ones that >> I understand the order of things and and and I do also respect and mother nature in all of her glory and in all of her, you know, goriness.
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But at the same time, I I I really whenever I'm watching those shows, I'm like, they're not going to actually show the turtles getting killed, right? >> That's our sickness.
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We're not You guys are like, "Oh, no.
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We're going to kill these songs.
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>> It just is what it it just like it kind of just basically makes it be like it takes a little bit.
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>> It gives you a little uh zoom out of like how the whole creative process is working because sometimes you won't something won't see the light of day um at all.
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Like just a rehearsal like damn that rehearsal was sick.
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We recorded this thing and like that will just be so exciting in the moment and never live beyond that.
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And it's just like just that's how it is. That's how the world is.
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You know, you don't always catch a photo of of an experience or you don't always um you know, uh so so some of those songs I think they're awesome when I hear them and um sometimes we want to release them or or re-record them or something like that.
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But more interesting to to us, I think, is like where can we move forward?
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Like I'm so psyched on this record.
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Like what can we do next? How can we elevate it?
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>> It's a paradox, but but both things can be true.
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you know, we're going to get into this new record right now, but I still need to hear the old one.
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So, yeah, we'll work it out.
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>> I'm going to be like, "Yo, these these turtles are alive."
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>> I think when Sergio talks about like he's talked about it in a way in the past in a way more positive way, which is just kind of like with no turtles dying. It's the dying turtles.
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I can't get my head around.
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>> He said in the past I've heard him say this thing that like stuck with me which is like you're like the songs that you don't release or don't quite cut make the cut often or maybe it's just our B, you know, Bides or something or you're like it's like you're you're informing yourself, you know what I mean?
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yourself, you know what I mean? like you're being influenced by this stuff that you that had a kernel and you think it really it's like you're moving towards the completed >> DNA transferable it's ever been mad at >> it's usually it's usually more about just taking the pressure off of a song
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>> I know but maybe I'm the one that added the death hey some turtles they're going to die that >> you know what I like I'm not mad at that >> it's my whole head >> our turtles are not it's not like a death >> okay what what if they're in turtle heaven they're in turtle heaven They're having a great time. >> Anything is art surge if you call that.
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>> Anything is art surge if you call that.
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>> Um, so getting in a room for 10 days and deciding as a band, we're going to record this record quick and we're going to find someone who understands that principle and they're not going to hold us back and we're going to get it done.
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Was it as easy as that or did you set yourselves up?
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Did you set the bar high and you had to rise to it?
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>> I think we that was our intention.
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It I don't think we were like really being like guys if we if we need day 11 we can't do it.
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Like we weren't like It wasn't. Yeah, it wasn't that.
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But I think really it just kind of um >> it just flowed, you know what I mean?
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Things were sounding good.
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So, it was like I we don't have to do that again.
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And and you know, from the vocal part of it, like I had a bunch of vocals, you know what I mean?
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But they weren't like all worked out. Yeah.
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>> So, we would record in the music in the daytime and and there was a lot of long swats where it would be mostly Allan working or Sergio would be doing uh warm-ups and I was like working on the the the lyrics and then we would at kind of in the later part of the day I would sing.
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And so, we just kind of got this whole we had just had a great flow and it just didn't seem like we needed to labor on it much more than that.
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I mean, we did go back and do a few guitar overdubs and stuff after, but you know, 95% of it was just done in 10 days, which is beautiful.
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Ideal, you know, >> you know, you listen to it now top to bottom bring out the psychics new album and you realize that like it, you know, you once I know that and I kind of felt it, but it's also played so well.
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Part of me thinks like, oh, you know, like real pre-production, real post-production went into all this.
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And so it really speaks to like the >> where you're at as players right now and and what that must feel like when you look at each other in the room and you know you're getting a take and it's like hang on our 10,000 hours has caught up to our inspiration and we can kind of >> we know our now for sure.
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But it's like you still like it that doesn't it doesn't end there, you know, cuz you the more that you know the more like you want to >> you just want to do better.
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you just you just want to like make it sound cooler and um you know and we we certainly prepared for the for the thing.
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We we weren't just like oh let's just wing it.
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We were doing as much as we could and detailing it in our rehearsal studio like pretty intensely, but not to the point where we just knew exactly what the songs were going to be. >> It sounds super fun.
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I mean, it sounds like a really fun way to actually create because ultimately, you know, you know the songs well enough, but also you get to kind of not get sick of them. >> Exactly.
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And what we what we did not do was like demo them and get into that thing where you're kind of like putting energy into a demo that now you're chasing.
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We were kind of recording them on our phones and sending them to John.
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He came down for a few days.
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So everything when we recorded it properly that was the first time that those songs were recorded and there was a lot of room for growth or life that you know in the studio that might have been lost if you did proper demos or you know multitrack demos in earlier stages.
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It was there was a lot of while we like Walter saying we rehearsed a lot, we detailed it a lot, but there was still a lot of space for >> for magic or for impro, you know, improvisation.
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And it was cool and John was really good at allowing for that >> and quick to discern if there was a marked improvement, if it was a neutral change or if it was like better before.
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And >> yeah, stay in the moment, right? Just move fast. Quick, quick, quick. >> Yeah. Get out of your own way.
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>> For me, it made it like for the first time I could I really heard the songs like more like a listener.
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Yeah, that's what I was going to say. Like a fan. >> Yeah.
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Like or you know just it was like cuz we we had the you know the forms were there but these guys layered so much cool stuff that was in the studio that when I'd get the mixes even though I was there and heard maybe heard some of it going down like hearing it as a final thing >> was more like whoa that that was nice.
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You know >> someone says something to me once which I think speaks to the commitment that you make over the course of your life to want to do this for life and it's not like to your point you know youth the confidence of youth. I'll try it.
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if I don't it, I'll do something else.
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It's like, no, I'm into this, >> which is no one's sticking around.
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I'll put your band in the context of this quote.
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No one's waiting around for a new quicksand album.
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They're waiting around for a great quicksand.
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>> And what that speaks to me is is the decision to get back together, write new songs, rehearse them, get ready to record them.
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Now comes with a commitment to quality, not just the flow of things or the orchestration.
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>> Harder to do it that way.
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I remember working at a health food store and just like being like having to kind of like act like I'm working is harder than actually working, you know what I mean?
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So like when we when we have like uh when we're there to make make music and also like I think going in in the way that we did um there's a lot to be said for you know you need to be prepared.
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You have to have a certain sort of vision, but there's a lot to be said of like not knowing how everything is going to be because if you put yourself in that position, I mean, it's really the thing of going on stage is like you you got to be good or you're going to be bad. >> You know what I mean?
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>> And this is the thing about Quicksand which I think everyone loves about you is the fact you come from a world where aspiration was higher than skill to some degree.
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Everyone was just trying to figure it the out.
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And those who there was a lot of people who were like, "Fuck ambition, man.
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we just want to make a rack.
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We want to have a good time.
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I had friends in bands who were doing that. Whatever.
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I never felt that way even from the beginning with Quicksand.
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I felt like you were unapologetically striving to sound great. >> Ah, that's cool. >> Thank you.
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>> That's probably true, actually. >> Yeah.
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I mean, we're always trying to push the envelope, but also, you know, we come from a uh we come from a culture that is about the connection between each other and us.
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And it's not like an audience, per se.
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These are your friends that are coming out.
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And we want to we want to add something to the conversation.
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We want to push it forward.
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We want to expand the the boundaries of what this could be, >> but within, you know, the things that we believe within our ethos.
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And that's been the challenge.
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And, you know, being present and being passionate is a key component to the world that we live in.
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>> It will get you through the door to some degree, but ethos is an interesting word.
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And especially when it's kind of guided by your friends and by the people closest to you, they'll never be more real to you.
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And they'll also never judge you in an inappropriate way more and try to hold you back even with best of intentions.
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And I wonder going back to those times when you were forming and figuring out your own voices perhaps subconsciously, individually and then collectively with a desire to be better, to sound great, >> to not deny the quality of the music because of the ethos or whatever.
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How challenging it was to >> have ambition in a scene that kind of felt in the late ' 80s, 90s like that might be a bit shitty.
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M >> I think the aesthetic is >> fair. Is that a fair system?
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>> I think I think that it's in what you're saying is like where like when we when we're coming out of this this hardcore yet like being really good at your instrument is cool, but it also like there's people that are good in that context that be like he's too good. I don't buy it. >> You know what I mean?
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So, um I think for us >> and stay here to some degree. Get better here. >> Don't go out there. >> No.
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Like I don't I don't Because then you're just like you're out of the out of the bounds of what everybody else. Yeah.
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There's I know I've met kids like you in junior high and you blew me away at guitar. Great.
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>> Um you know >> nothing against being really good at guitar.
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It's beautiful and I'm trying to catch up with spend the rest of my life.
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But you know we the scene that we came up with was very a good community.
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So there was always like these really really cool bands and of all different levels of being good at playing or whatever.
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And obviously like you know we had people at like say the Bad Brains or or Fugazi that were like doing music that was like had a primitive quality to it but played with such finesse and like that suggested uh something else. You know what I mean?
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Like the B bad brains have all these like cool jazz kind of unexpected twists and turns and fugazi work with so much with dynamics and stuff.
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And then we had all the bands around us in New York that there were so many good ones.
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So like for us to I mean I guess they didn't think about it this way but for us to step into that arena we wanted to get >> to that level. You know what I mean?
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That was our thing and we're still kind of trying to be >> great in that way.
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I think if we were a band that was just like hey we're just hanging out and we're just jamming and it sounds good and that's fine. Like that's awesome too. >> It is awesome.
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But it it depends how much you want to really wear that and shout about that which I think tends to come from a place of fear that we're mis we're misunderstood.
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So perhaps I need to create ideology out of that.
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Like if I'm not going to reach millions of people and I'm only going to reach thousands of people, then I'm going to make a thing out of that.
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Make a statement out of that.
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And I've definitely met bands who do that.
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And I've always wondered what the intention of that statement is.
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Is it because you genuinely don't want to reach millions of people or is it because it, we're not going to. Let's make this a thing.
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I mean I think I think as humans we we have the things that we believe are our instincts and then we we >> you know justify that with some sort of narrative you know like I don't think it's conscious necessarily but you do that so that you know you just you want to feel good you want to wake up and affirm yourself.
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So it doesn't matter what you're doing you'll find a narrative that makes that be the thing to do. >> Yeah. Yeah.
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>> And and I think if you're not aligned with that then you wind up changing and growing to try to fit into something that you want to be or where you want to go.
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So for people that's okay.
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You know, there are bands that um >> just want to sound like, let's say, like the Bad Brains.
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They're I just want to sound like the Bad Brains and and you get to that point and that's it, >> you know, for for me that wouldn't be satisfying, you know, but for them that's that's the goal and that's, you know, that's cool.
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>> It's so great having you here.
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I'm so I'm so excited to have this conversation.
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I feel like I've been waiting 30 years to be able to sit down with the three of you and have this conversation.
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And I think there was probably a time when I first met you around rival schools where I had to check myself a little bit at the door with that because you know how much I love that band too but I would always slide into after a while like what's up with quicksand you know what I mean?
21:34
And I I guess the question for you Walter specifically is during that time were you were you okay with the idea of there not being another quicksand record or was there always something inside of you that you felt was slowly but surely pulling you back?
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I don't know if I would have like at that point been like looking to reopen that.
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The universe just kind of like made that happen.
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But surely um there was maybe at that point in time I could reflect on it and go like you know um maybe we could have uh tried a little harder to keep it together because there was we were on the path to something and um who knows what that could have been and uh you know could have been more patient.
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I think, you know, immature.
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I think it was more youth like cuz we're all pretty, you know, I think reasonable people, but um I don't think at that point I was like pining for it in that way.
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It just more like kind of recognizing something like my perspective on something.
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And um but when it did come together, it was very organic and and as soon as we played these the songs and we played together, I was instantly hit >> by the way that we just sound, you know, >> I just remember looking at footage of it cuz obviously I wasn't there.
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I was in London at the time when you guys played the first show together and I looked at footage on the internet of that show.
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I don't know if it was the anniversary of was it the >> revelation that's what that was the pretext >> and I remember seeing I remember I remember seeing you start and then immediately being drawn to shots of the crowd >> and going oh like there's way more of us >> than there was when you were around in the ' 90s like something's happened between then and now where the music has traveled and found more people and more people.
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So, what did that feel like when you got back together the first time before we catch up on this time and and knowing that like, >> yeah, this isn't this isn't just gas.
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Like, there's people who want to see these songs. It's magic.
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I mean, you're you're you're just like in it and you're playing it and you're also sharing it.
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So, like it was it was very very cool.
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And, you know, we went in with that the intention of just doing it and seeing what that would be like.
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And then, you know, then it was just a lot of uh positive energy going to it.
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So, we kind of extended that.
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And shortly after we played a a tour, we were like, well, >> we're kind of at a crossroads, you know, do do we continue just, you know, playing Slip and Manic Compression and is that going to be satisfying to us or do we try to make new material?
24:08
Making new material is you have to make the new material.
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And also is the new material going to stand up and and and service do service to like the legacy of what we don't.
24:21
>> I imagine that leads to a place of and not not in an overly dramatic way but a little bit of fear cuz it's like man you know if we don't actually like it if >> like Alan like we have to figure out regardless of how well we play these songs we know >> do we know each other anymore to be able to make something new you know? >> Yeah.
24:38
I mean for me it was like that was like once we did it went and did a tour I think the first thing I said was like I could do it maybe another one but we like we don't make new music.
24:46
I don't think it felt for me it just felt like a requirement. Yeah.
24:50
>> Like how do you just I you know I couldn't do a thing where it's just going out and playing >> stuff that you had written years >> almost closure a little bit but >> yeah it was like that would have been fine but then I think I would have been done with it.
25:00
So like for me it was like we just got to let's you know let's not be scared of it and just see what happens.
25:05
Go make make music together.
25:07
And I think that first record like we didn't really think about what it would be like.
25:11
This one I think we had a more of a you know an idea of what conceptually it would be.
25:16
That one I think we just got in a room and said like what happens if you play together after >> Yeah.
25:22
>> however many years that was you know and it just felt organic. >> Mhm. Totally. >> It felt easy.
25:26
All of these records felt easy.
25:28
And those first two I love them but they were not I don't think it was an easy thing for any of us to do.
25:32
It was like labored and difficult.
25:34
And these each record just got we work better together and it's easy and feels just fun. >> Yeah.
25:42
I think we at the time together uh started to recalibrate us with our shared interest when we first came back together and what became interiors was like we have a way of playing.
25:51
We have our voices that like the way that we pick even when Allan picks up a guitar he picks he strums like us.
25:58
We all have a language that's together.
26:01
But we had like these years apart and what informed us during our time apart.
26:06
So when we came back together it was like who are we now? What are we now?
26:10
And and I remember just us doing a lot of things a lot of material like a lot of this is good.
26:16
It doesn't really feel like what that it would be quicksand >> and but it's really cool and we had a lot of these songs and you know kind of goes back to the turtle thing.
26:24
A lot of things that helped inform what we ultimately became.
26:27
And when we we went up with a song that became like the cornerstone, we're like, "Oh, this is really kind of like this this makes sense."
26:36
And it kind of helped even reorient things that we had prior and that made it all and it we were able to build around it and have a record.
26:43
And each record after that became more a function of like our shared now like experiences together and we started to align >> where with this record is the most you know like we are together a lot. We play together a lot.
26:56
We're sharing experiences a lot.
26:57
We're listening to music together a lot and and now that it it comes across in the music to me.
27:01
This one seems like not better or worse, but like laser foc I mean this is my favorite record. I'm going to be honest.
27:08
Like it's focused and I I can hear our time together >> and it's it's cool.
27:13
>> That's what we talked about before.
27:13
This idea of friendship really coming to the four here, but also with the fire that just comes when you guys play.
27:17
Um the friendship is key and I'm going to open this door, but you choose how how far you want to walk through it or where you want to go with it.
27:24
Um, but you know, one of the key components in the early days was that razor sharp guitar playing that Tom brought to the band.
27:31
You know, that very strong almost a tonal thing that was a counterpoint to these songs that you inherently write that kind of pop songs in a lot of ways, you know.
27:41
>> Um, and so when he came back and it all sort of was like one complete unit and that was relatively >> shortlived.
27:48
Um, how challenging was it to recombine what you were as a three-piece >> and to move forward without a component which >> you can't deny was an essential part of the sound of the band in the early days. >> Yeah.
28:00
I I think it's like you can't really, you know, um like Tom's contribution and what he did was so special and awesome and there's no way to like to do that.
28:11
like that's his his power and thing.
28:17
So I think when when it came to the just the three of us, the main thing we plugged in initially was just the songs.
28:24
Like how do we play the songs?
28:26
And and that was actually >> came way easier and more naturally than than we would have thought. You know what I mean?
28:34
It took me a minute to like pick >> which parts to, you know, which carried the songs best.
28:39
the songs best. And then you know leads I'm not a lead player so I had you know I have to like pay homage to to those kind of >> I became one that's a way to get good at guitar riders be two of them >> dude it was it it's really been uh you know challenging but also really awesome
28:56
to like become more confident player and like I I would kind of I've always felt confident about my playing but like to present it more as like I'm playing guitar and uh so that it's been like a cool evolution to where you know am I doing this to like being like pretty confident with it and feeling like my voice is more defined. So it's really just like another level
29:20
So it's really just like another level of >> this sort of journey that we're on especially in this kind of part two 2.
29:25
0 version where we get to make the third record and we get to um make a records that are more cooperative and more artistically collaborative and and more of the same on the same task and and that's been awesome to measure against you know your youth and also to um to be a part of in the present like I just I enjoy that >> taste. Go ahead. >> Sorry.
29:53
I think also like back to informing your you know like informing yourself to some extent like the when we had to play as a three-piece it was like we had like five minutes >> to decide >> like are we going to do this thing tonight?
30:06
play the show and then from there on out it was just like a whole tour of figuring out we were only playing old so we didn't have any new songs so it was figuring out how to sound good as a trio >> and I think that informed like on you know we finished that we're like we got that done and we made those songs sound great people liked it
30:21
>> that's whiplash though Alan isn't that's whiplash when you realize that you know a season with someone that you care about who's been an essential part of your band has come to an end and you don't even have time to process you got to get on stage and figure it out either play tonight or not play tonight >> I can I forgot it happened on That's crazy. >> And then but I think the good, you know,
30:36
>> And then but I think the good, you know, if there's a positive to be had from it for, you know, is that when we, you know, decided we were going to make some new music, it was uh, you know, as a three-piece, we're going to write stuff as a trio.
30:48
It's like we had already done the hardest part is make songs that weren't written.
30:52
Now we just have to write ones that are definitely going to sound good as a trio. >> Exactly.
30:56
>> What was um, looking back on it now as the players in the band, not the fans, we all have an opinion on this.
31:03
What is so special about the way last question here Tom plays from your perspective?
31:09
What is so unique about his style?
31:12
If you're a skateboarder, you're like, I love that person's style.
31:15
>> It is like skateboarding.
31:15
I think he has a chaotic style that he will not go where you think he's going to go.
31:21
He won't land on the spot where it seems obvious that you should you should land.
31:27
And he's not doing to frustrate anybody.
31:30
That's like just how he plays.
31:30
And I think when he put it together, >> it's just it just stands out among like lead players of uh of that time, you know, and that was his his special.
31:40
He's also a great songwriter.
31:42
Allan and Tom played in in a band uh together, but I think in Quicksand it was that that, you know, was really special.
31:48
So like I will play some of his leads.
31:51
I try to play them, you know, with the with the big parts that that are stuck in your head, the hooks, >> but you know, I I different style.
32:00
>> Yeah, different style.
32:00
and I do different things and uh and I've gotten like more comfortable with it and uh I think I'm doing cool stuff too, but like and but I get to shine more in in what we're doing now.
32:12
And it's actually not as much >> on the lead thing. >> Yeah. It's different. It's a different groove.
32:18
It's a different kind of groove cuz when you when anything that's just caught and chaotic will ultimately be a distraction to the groove in a good way.
32:23
It it forces the groove to fight for itself. Right. >> Exactly.
32:27
I mean Tom brought a lot to in terms of his aesthetic, his taste and the music that he brought to us and the thing. Yeah.
32:33
So he would, you know, he was constantly like expanding our our parameters on like things that he would bring into, you know, on tour and listen to and stuff.
32:41
I remember, you know, like >> first hearing my bloody valentine through him, >> psychic TV, he had cool manifesto.
32:51
He was into kind of like >> dead can dance. >> Dead can dance.
32:53
So he had cool musical taste. brought it in.
32:56
I mean, this is like we were I think for like hardcore kids, we you know, we had a pretty wide uh musical palette that we were drawing from that, you know, >> added to this like Bad Brain, Smart Threat, these kind of things, too.
33:10
But, >> um, so yeah, he he brought a lot of that to >> it was Jeff Albert to me in a weird way. You know what I mean?
33:15
Like if I put the skateboarding analogy, if I looked at all the skaters I love, it's like if this is the guy who's just going to tear up. Yeah.
33:21
>> You know what I And that's why I want to talk about him because I what >> he's like the dog towns and Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Boys documentary. >> That's right. That's right.
33:27
Yeah, that's that's kind of how I look at it.
33:28
I always looked at him and when I fell in love with the band, I'd looked at all of you individually and fell in love with each everything you were doing in your videos and your photos and everything else.
33:35
But I I was always drawn to him for a certain thing and and I don't I hope he's good and it's not really my business.
33:40
When you leave the band and get away from all of that and do whatever you're going to do, then it it becomes about you you earn the right to live your life and not have questions asked.
33:49
But I did want to honor him because that the sound that you know he brought to the band for a period of time was awesome.
33:56
I mean I talked to him last week >> for like an hour and he's you know he's that's >> I would add to what you said is that I think that >> like in the early stages we always played the three of us I think in a very similar way that we play together now and that >> chaotic kind of just >> fighting happened on top of what we were doing.
34:18
So when he was no longer in the band, I think what we had is like that same foundation and bass and then it was just to figure out how not how not to how to emulate him.
34:26
That's why I don't I think otherwise we would have tried to find a guitar player to do that. But why do that?
34:32
You know, like nobody, you know, please sound like this guy. >> Well, exactly.
34:36
>> So instead, I think Walter's figured out ways to do something really special that isn't the same as what Tom did, but >> it puts that element on top of this foundation that we already have.
34:46
It's evolutionary to some degree and getting somebody to come in there to your point is devolutionary.
34:50
It's like um we you know if you it's also really awful to say to any new player, hey, don't be yourself cuz we need you. >> Yeah.
34:59
And also like those like you mentioned those songs that we didn't put out, you know, and the the turtles from that from that third record.
35:06
>> I haven't forgotten about them.
35:07
>> I was very happy that we didn't that when we it was time to make new music.
35:12
There was like a temptation to say those songs were good and they never came out.
35:16
So why don't we just re-record them and release them or at least some of them then we have half an album already or three quarters and and luckily like to Walter's credit he was like I just I want to write new things >> and also where's the fun in that >> yeah where's the fun right like it had a
35:30
moment it didn't it ultimately didn't the turtles didn't make it but uh >> the fun is making the turtles >> making the turtles yeah that's >> you just get up on that beach you birth them all eggs and see what happens >> well first you got to make them so it's like hump day right make them a crazy day, >> you know what I mean? You're always
35:48
You're always going to remember that and then the beach day. >> Yeah.
35:52
And then you just go out.
35:53
>> Why would you Why would you Why would you deprive yourself? >> It's so true.
35:58
>> That's so funny cuz I never thought about that.
35:58
I never thought about actually it's kind of empathetic and it's high EQ work to not bring someone into a rehearsal space and ask them to try.
36:04
And I just think about poor Dave Navaro and the Chili Peppers and how brutal that was or it's like one of the greatest guitar players of all time.
36:11
The body won't take the organ. It's very true.
36:13
That's a good way of putting it. You know what I mean?
36:16
>> Well, I think with the Foo the initial Foo Fighters thing, you know, like, you know, I'm sure that he, you know, coming from where he came from, he wanted a drummer to sound exactly like him, >> you know, and >> you think >> I think I think, you know, I mean, and then it was just kind of like you should have probably just played the tracks exactly the way and hired somebody to go play. >> But Will's a kid.
36:38
How he plays is just so good with the head down like that the whole time.
36:42
time. So I met that when I think of that I just think like well it's not because that guy was was not an amazing drummer cuz you know he was and I know him he was always great you know but it's a different thing if you if you're looking for a certain sound or you're looking for a certain thing to try and ask
36:56
somebody to do that whether it's guitar or drums it's >> it's just it's a big ask >> I think it's like I'm a big fan of letting people cook too what I mean like you always get better >> results if you if you respect somebody's work and you like what they do like it's always better to just let them go and then just kind of so like I it's a little tricky. We just felt like let's
37:15
We just felt like let's just not even get too wrapped up.
37:17
We have tried and we've worked with people that are really really awesome but the most direct especially in writing it's just the three of us are we have all that we need and I feel like you know you listen to the record it can be played as a three-piece but it sounds expansive and there's a lot of detail within it.
37:35
>> No, you've earned the right to do it the way you want to do it.
37:36
way you want to do it. you've tried and tested multiple different ways and hearing Brown G today I was like well you know that's just amazing you know what I mean >> it's the same thing if you go to a produ like the idea to me of going to a producer >> that you know they have a body of work >> and you like that body of work that's why you're asking him to produce a
37:54
record and then asking him to sound like some other producer yeah it's so funny I I love that you acknowledge that you like the collaborative experience you like letting people cook you like being inspired or whatever I don't know if it's ever got to you, but I feel like there was a time amongst real fans of what you do, Walter, where it felt like uh that might not have been easily easily acknowledged. I think there was a
38:14
I think there was a sense of like, you know, I think I don't know if this if this is common, but I mean the word Colonel gets kicked around a little bit, Colonel Walter, you know, it's like he's got so many bands and so many things and so many outlets and so much stuff and so it's like, you know, was that always a misnomer or have there been times in your life where you're like, you know, I've got a vision?
38:30
Yeah, I think I've I think I've evolved and I think like also this band is is really that you know what I mean?
38:37
And and I think that I yeah from an early age like um I started in um doing my own band which I felt was like kind of okay, you know, but I was like the main musical person.
38:53
People were listening to what my ideas were for whatever reasons. We were children. Yeah.
38:58
>> Um, so I was able to develop a confidence and uh and an understanding of how things work because I had had that success and I but I was also in a band where I was, you know, in Youth Today for those who know is like I was I was a contributing member.
39:13
So I was also playing that role in that band.
39:15
playing that role in that band. Um and I think um this is like more evolution and I think you know uh of once you kind of are with people like I think like the the I think you can get a lot more by letting something develop and open and just give it that chance in that space and then you can if you're with people that you know the three of us we will
39:37
listen back to things and there'll be things that I'm really like this has got to be this way it's going to be great it's going to be amazing and sometimes that works and then there's other times where it's got to be this way and it just feels like jammed in like the organ the body's not accepting the organ and everybody can hear it and I think that's that's how everybody is. So we try to
39:54
So we try to like peel back some of that kind of um you know I think it's if someone has a good idea and they're stoked on it like I want to jump on that contribute to it and lift it but there's got to be a stage where you you for us >> a decision has to be made. >> Yeah. Is this is this good?
40:10
Is this what we want to spend our time on? Yeah, we do that.
40:14
We kind of do a little voting thing and sometimes we we we have a system where we can like like rate >> the songs and then what lives lives.
40:20
And I think you know speaking for myself >> ah though it's democratic.
40:26
>> We literally like like have a number system you like all right we were going to listen through and like one being the best five being like it's a dog.
40:35
>> So what we've taken now is to the turtles analogy is that we stand over the turtles if the turtle nature. This one's cute. No, it's not.
40:44
>> Just >> it's not us that are killing the turtle.
40:48
It's like just the you know the birds universe is killing.
40:50
They're coming in helps you SLEEP AT NIGHT. YOU MATTER. SONG MATTERS. >> THEY COME OUT THOUGH.
40:55
They they The thing is they come out that's >> they come out in other form.
40:58
Like there's like there's riffs that I've had in my head for like 30 plus years and it's never that exact riff, but there's different spins off of that energy that you like want to hit people in this certain sort of way and it's just like an itch that you just like >> I love that process.
41:17
Being back in that space myself, I love the fact that it might take 4 days and 35 versions of something to land on one thing and then it just happens so fast.
41:26
You got to be patient and you got to be give yourself the time to do it.
41:31
I mean, the Beatles would cut Yeah.
41:33
like 20 versions of of any song that they went in to record and they would just pick the best one of that and it could have been and sometimes you hear some of the other versions if you're a Beatles fan or whatever and then uh you'd be like, "Yeah, they picked the wrong one." Totally.
41:49
>> You know, or or they were totally right. You know what I mean?
41:52
Like they I mean it's hard to to know, but like that's We have our process and there's some ones that are like didn't make it on the last record that maybe will creep up on on the next one that that we're still entertaining because it's just like a a feeling or a groove that we we we just want to express it.
42:13
>> We stopped demoing like a long time ago like anything like we just used voice recordings on a on a so they can't you can't chase a demo. You know what I mean?
42:21
Because otherwise you get you go in and you you record something that sounds good but you want to make it part of a cohesive thing.
42:27
>> But also haven't you learned the right to be instinctive at this point with the music and not necessarily overthink it or >> I think we also thought with with like Sergio said something great on this one like John Marks he's you know he's one of us.
42:36
He plays in a in a band from the same kind of you know world and he's just a great musician.
42:40
So he's like we don't have to send him anything that sounds good.
42:44
He can hear the song like no matter what they sound like. >> Yeah. Yeah.
42:47
You know, one song I'm really glad I made it on to, which um we talked a little bit about, which was Daysa You Run to.
42:51
And I know that that that stands out for you all as well.
42:53
And it's clear if you're a lifelong fan of the band that you're exploring new territory, but it still has very much the essence of what makes the band cool.
43:00
How did that song get made?
43:00
What's the story behind that?
43:01
I think we were um yeah, we were very focused on this record of like we wanted to it to be more energetic, more urgent feeling and we wanted to just like trim any fat on things without you know you'd still enjoy it but >> and so we kind of >> Prague rock band though to be honest with you.
43:18
You're pretty you're pretty tight your whole ride.
43:20
We we fit into these kind of like whatever psych kind of moments that that um give you that feeling of just being like sort of uh outside of your normal world, long walks around the park.
43:35
>> But uh I felt that we had that that being the brief of this record, we just kind of had done it and so we were like enough songs in it's like okay, we've we've hit this target.
43:47
>> We've got this target covered.
43:47
So then it was like um there was just like a little bit of a a moment, a quiet moment where these two guys were jamming and I and I recorded and I was like we need something at this temperature because we the whole record which is what we wanted has this like energetic thing.
44:02
We need something where we can be quiet.
44:06
>> It doesn't surprise me that you caught them off guard as well because the drum beat in itself if you just isolated the drum beat >> for you it's it's another space. It's another groove.
44:13
It's not something I've heard you like lean into on records before like that.
44:16
I think what's really interesting, I have a pretty good memory of like that song coming together.
44:20
What's interesting is we were at Walters.
44:22
He has a place upstate and it's calm.
44:24
It's like, you know, it's like in the woods and we just went up to, you know, see what would happen if we, >> you know, worked up there >> and I started playing that beat >> and Sergio started playing a riff that he had.
44:37
If you listen to that riff, >> it was a heavy ass riff.
44:40
>> It was wanting to be heavy.
44:40
It was it was a riff that he had that he was bring gonna bring in as a as a banger, >> but uh I think you just felt like it, you know, like what happens if you play this soft and then I think Walter picked right up on like that.
44:54
>> That's really interesting the dynamic of that Sergio because it's like um because to your point that riff is like super restless like it's it's almost tense.
45:04
It's almost a little bit like it's a little unnerving because it just does never really gets a chance to reveal itself in a way it was probably designed to.
45:10
I think that it's better for it.
45:10
I think that if it it's like it feels like something trying to bust out that boom, it just doesn't get that opportunity.
45:18
It's something we've discussed at home listening to it.
45:20
You can feel that restlessness. It wants that.
45:21
But it it >> and back to the other thing, I think there's like a b, you know, like two or three other songs on that made the cut that do what that would have done as a heavy riff.
45:33
So probably that would have been one of the turtles, but instead it got a new live. >> These turtles.
45:38
cuz I swear I'm going to be at home in the fetal position tonight and my wife's going to be like, "You're right."
45:42
I'm like, "A >> turtles all the way down, man. >> Turtles, man.
45:45
I'm going to be turtles all the way down."
45:47
>> I think of it as like got this sort of like Q&A sort of uh aspect to it where it's like and then you're kind of like the vocal response and so it's that when you're saying that it's unsettling but it's chill.
46:00
So it's like >> you know the beats kind of like keeping you in it and then the chorus just sort of like I think is just more of like what a a a band a cor like a it's just sort of like I don't know it just wouldn't work outside of that context for us but it's really nice.
46:18
So I'm like I can sing on this.
46:21
I can sound vulnerable on this.
46:24
>> It's almost policy in that regard.
46:24
It almost it almost delivers at the right time but then it doesn't leave you there long.
46:29
It's like I'm sorry we can't stay here.
46:32
>> That's the that's the the note that you know I I wanted you know we wanted to get you know because the rest of the record is I mean there's there's there's m moments throughout but like nothing that's purely focused on like okay guys we're going to chill and just like enjoy this and it's not like some deep narrative really.
46:51
I think that it's very open to interpretation and you could just have a minute and um >> yeah I'm just really happy with how how that came out.
46:58
I think it's going to be really interesting on how that informs or doesn't but perhaps informs where you go because all of a sudden it's like whenever you do something like that and you look at each other and go, "Okay, we caught a different chemistry in this room, different feeling in this room."
47:09
>> Um, you know, it sort of like pushes the horizon a few miles down the road.
47:14
>> You're like, you know, oh man, maybe maybe we're going to land somewhere a little different next time in a different way.
47:17
And that's really interesting to me.
47:18
Then it's like, oh like, you know, we're knocking on a 3. 0.
47:21
And that's what a perspective brings because you know you're doing things and you're you're basing your work off of the work that is around it and you feel like certain needs based on what you've done >> and so now having this record to add to the to the mix of our entire catalog you know creates different spaces there's different needs maybe you know it it it helps give you new lanes to go down. >> Yeah.
47:45
Like we could do something more that next time. You know what I mean?
47:49
And so we open up a a big lane and it's like the the response of the record's been overall just really great.
47:54
But definitely people point to that song.
47:57
You know, >> it feels a little full circle to me too cuz that if we had uh the EP that we did had one outlier like it was just an instrumental with a friend of ours playing a horn solo on it.
48:09
>> And to some extent it feels like that to me.
48:10
We got these bangers and then something that gives you a you know a different look.
48:14
>> Brings you into different place.
48:14
Um the album is so great and we're going to talk about touring to finish in a second but just indulge me for a couple of minutes and let's just um you know for the real lifelong fans out there.
48:22
Let's just get a really nice little bit of reflection.
48:25
Um cuz you you know you celebrated Slip. I went to the show.
48:27
It was so great >> to hear you guys play those songs start to finish.
48:30
There's something really beautiful about knowing what's coming next cuz it's like you know all of us you're sort of in the room but at the same time you're still that kid walking home from school knowing full well you're about to hear the next song.
48:39
Um what what did you kind of get out of that experience?
48:42
What does a band like you who's itching to to move forward >> without but also willing to acknowledge what do you get out of celebrating something like that?
48:52
>> For me, I have a good answer for that is that we got to play all those songs like >> you know some of I I think we would never play.
48:58
>> There was one maybe that we had never played just it just never fit in a set or what for whatever reason.
49:02
So it was nice to know like you've got this assignment. >> Yeah.
49:06
>> Like be able to make that record sound as good as possible in order. >> Yeah.
49:11
You know, it was kind of amazing to to be able to to do it that way. >> Yeah.
49:15
Just it was a great like, you know, a little bit of a victory lap. It was awesome. You know what I mean?
49:19
Like we, >> you know, connect to that record and so many people do.
49:24
So many people like listen to it on their CD Walkman, you know what I mean?
49:28
And have that experience of like how it was sequenced and all that kind of stuff.
49:31
So, it was it was an interesting >> and it's really sequenced.
49:34
I mean, right down to the point when you didn't have technology to be able to make it work.
49:38
So, you were obviously cutting tape loops in the mastering station to make it work.
49:40
So you could hear the what you were trying to achieve by connecting these two songs, but there'd be like a 01 of a second miss.
49:47
>> It's the technology was what it was.
49:49
>> Like I think in the first two songs it's like it goes but it's supposed to go you can't get it that close.
49:55
You know I didn't nerd alert but you know what I mean?
49:59
>> I know I know exactly what you're saying.
50:00
I was like but that's what we we had to to work with at that time. So it's just great.
50:04
I mean people still love this album. you.
50:05
We obviously when we made the album, we were like trying to make it really awesome, you know, like because we were wanted it people to be into it.
50:12
Um, but there's a lot of records that came out that week that that people had that same desire, that same work and maybe they even sold like a ton of records, but like our record somehow made it through to where, you know, people still discover it and the people that loved it in the time, it's still meaningful to them.
50:30
>> Well, I think the writing as well stands up, not just the playing and and everything else.
50:33
I want to give you credit for for for the words and the stories you tell.
50:36
Very observational in a lot of cases.
50:37
A lot of times, you know, it's like it's like quiet judgment from the back of the room.
50:41
Observing things, figuring things out, seeing the human condition seems to be a through line for you. >> Yeah.
50:46
And I think for and also usually I'm just drawing from my own experience of like I'm looking at me like what am I doing? >> Interesting.
50:54
But putting it through almost like a third person sometimes it feels like to me like it's almost like you're reflecting on someone else in the room, but it's a personal observation. >> Yeah.
51:01
A lot of the time, I mean, I will draw from from someone says something or something agitates me or or whatever, but um or I'm going through something.
51:09
So, a lot >> you is often me. >> It's often me. Yeah.
51:11
You know, or something that I I see happening and I'm I'm you know, cuz I wouldn't really I don't I think it's hard to like just go after someone in a song, you know what I mean?
51:22
Like cuz I just feel like everybody's just sort of I I think you don't know what go people are going through or what they've gone through to to be you know there's certain people that I don't you know want to be around or whatever for for reasons that are good for my mental health but like it's hard to just be like >> here's a critique of you and you're just bad and all that kind of stuff.
51:42
It's just like >> well there's no learning in that. >> No.
51:45
Oh, so I think it's like better to like maybe create some sort of character out of your own, you know, like if I'm singing about like get to it, for example, on this this record, I'm talking about me, you know what I mean?
51:57
Like everybody else, I want everybody in their life to do their things that they want to do and I'm trying to lift you.
52:03
Of course, that's conscious, but like, >> you know, there's a lyric like, uh, things will be different once I get my schedule set.
52:10
That's me in my freaking calendar trying to like clear my mind to understand what's coming next.
52:15
And that's something that I don't like doing.
52:19
>> But like so it's really a pep talk to myself.
52:22
So when I listen to get to it, it's like this sort of like character that I created to like bust my chops and inspire me to to go, you know.
52:27
Uh but I think that's a lot of people write like that, you know, from your own experience and like I think it's healthy to have uh to observe your own behavior and and and try to like recognize it so maybe you can do better.
52:43
>> I mean it's how I listen to it.
52:43
I I take you being me and I make you about me. >> Yeah.
52:51
>> You know, and I'm like I'm like, "Oh man, I get to apply this to my life and like a that totally speaks to how I'm feeling about my right now."
52:57
And and I think that that that feeling of being less alone um >> you know, it allows you to get through those days where alone feels really hard. >> Yeah.
53:08
To connect and to um you know, we're connecting on a on a musical level and on our just like our lives intersecting and um you know and our growth as musicians and people and all that.
53:19
And uh you know that navigating that and like turning it into sound and and and like you know images and life and live music and all that kind of stuff creates this whole butterfly effect that is just awesome that like um you know people will will hit hit me up and and be like you know this really got me through this kind of thing.
53:41
And that's what music is dude.
53:43
Like that's like records that I've listened to where I felt like >> I don't know what to do, but this record makes me feel like I'm okay and I'm going to get through this.
53:53
>> What's the record for you each of you that not the one, but one of the ones that that you've referred to during times when it's been more than just a listen and it's actually been a companion piece to help me through those moments.
54:02
Um, I like like happy sad kind of stuff like uh uh Head on the Door by The Cure or um I guess I'm kind of an 80s guy.
54:13
>> So uh you know I feel the Smiths are really good because they're his lyrics are always like making fun of the situation.
54:22
>> Dude, Headm's Ritual is the most beautiful example ever of taking a the worst time in your life and making fun of it. Yeah.
54:37
>> hilarious consequences.
54:37
It's one of the greatest examples of songwriting in my lifetime.
54:41
That's >> I think he does that really well.
54:42
Uh especially in that kind of like golden era, but like those kind of things.
54:47
Um >> demented ghouls of Manchester schools.
54:49
I mean, he writes in It's so good. >> Yeah.
54:54
I mean, he he's able to give you that sort of um perspective on like when you're a kid or even just even as an adult, you know what I mean?
55:02
I find it so often where you're just like, "Oh man, this is really bad. I really screwed up."
55:07
Or I, you know, or something like the world's you're worrying, you know what I mean?
55:12
And like >> he made worry funny. That's the thing.
55:15
>> He made it funny like you're going to go you're not in the school for life.
55:17
you're not in the school for life. like this is a time in your life and you're going to and and the the things that are being thrown at you are going to be things that are going to you know like it doesn't kill you makes you stronger like um >> but I mean even look at the lyric like one of those famous lyrics where people really cry during this and I have many
55:33
times but you know if a double decker bus crashes into us I mean it's the kind of thing people say is a joke you know what I mean and it's like become this thing which is one of the most kind of like unrequited you know love and life and death and all these kind of crazy things >> and the the the sort of patheticness >> so pathetic Like it's just like makes me feel like I'm not so pathetic. Like it's okay to
55:50
Like it's okay to be pathetic.
55:53
>> But by the way, looking back on it now, how cheeky and how grateful are you that you survived covering How Soon Is Now?
55:58
Cuz it is a bold move at the beginning, right?
56:00
I mean, that's got to be the confidence or the folly, depending on how you look at it, of youth, and then decide on your first EP, we're just going to do this.
56:05
And now people wait for it in the live show if you would choose to do it.
56:08
It actually got through the gateway of the the really hard door to get through of classic songs that you actually added value to. But man.
56:18
Bold I remember it as a song that we all liked and a band that we all liked and at a time, you know, I mean, there's a lot that we always that we all like, but that was something that, you know, just touched us all in.
56:29
And they weren't this they weren't like the Smiths that they are now at that time, too.
56:33
Like cuz the world we were into in Hardcore, like now everyone in in um is Yeah.
56:37
Everybody in Hardcore, like that's a that's a perfect >> It's like goes without saying that you like the Smiths in some way.
56:44
And not to just make it about them, but like um when we did How Soon Is Now in our world, that was completely um like not even kids would be into the Smiths.
56:53
It wouldn't be something that you would openly admit in that environment.
56:56
It would be sort of like >> it would be sort of like saying something a little bit weird in a way like you like the Smiths, we like hardcore here, like you like that, that's something else.
57:07
>> And I think it's over time uh become more just like everything.
57:10
So maybe maybe we would not have taken that step if the timing majority of people that were listening to they never heard of it this >> man.
57:19
It's so funny now because in time you look back on it you think like wow man. Okay.
57:22
But it's it's such a great version of that song.
57:24
Have you I'm assuming you've played it in Manchester.
57:27
>> Uh we have and the other thing is like you're you grew up you're in New Zealand so maybe the Smiths were in the popular radio at that time.
57:33
They were not in the United States.
57:35
>> We're covering an obscure band at the time for at least our world. Our world. Yeah. >> No.
57:40
We're miserable down under.
57:40
Everyone thinks that we're these chy super chirpy happy people and it's all great and it's sunshine all the time.
57:44
We're miserable people in a nice way.
57:48
>> Yeah, it's it's working.
57:48
It's >> We embrace misery. >> Yeah.
57:51
And that's what that's what I think those kind of records that like and I think the cure has a similar effect or even like Joy Division taking it or or New Order these things that sound gloomy and sad but there's like a sense of humor and and hope and like even just in that >> you know and melody that connects and um you know our music is like not that on the surface but I think into the the lyrical approach for sure.
58:19
>> No, it's opened up a whole world for me.
58:21
It's a beautiful place to pause because I realize now you are an 80s band born in the '90s.
58:25
>> Like you actually are when I think back to your records now and even right through to the new one, there is a sense of prevailing misery >> in a good way.
58:33
But but the way you're playing it's like the discord and desire to make something weird successful. >> Yeah.
58:39
>> It's like it's not normal music.
58:39
The ' 80s was not a normal decade for music. >> Nor was the '9s.
58:42
I mean, you're you're thinking about like the the motif.
58:44
I think you you were saying before like the if you think of like the the the the pinnacle of the '9s would be like Nirvana.
58:54
So here's this band that's like massively successful and doesn't want to be and wants to when they've made this massive success is they're they're unhappy with it and then they're going to use a producer to make it sound like sort of like against what would make them more popular.
59:08
And that was the vibe of it.
59:10
It was I mean it was that was the vibe across the board.
59:13
I've talked about this so many times about the that the moment when corporate collaboration became acceptable, which to me in my mind at least was the moment when the Y stripes did the Coke ad and everyone was up in arms about it.
59:25
Like I cannot believe that the that that mom and dad of all things credible in the 2000s just did that.
59:32
And then someone at the enemy said, "Why did you do it on the red carpet?"
59:36
And Jack went, >> I drink it. And kept it moving. >> He's not wrong.
59:41
>> And he's like, "I drink it."
59:41
>> And he's like, "I drink it." So it's like all of a sudden it's like oh if you stand by it how can you actually but before that in the ' 90s you you wouldn't have come back >> and also the economics changed I think too cuz they're they're like the there there was a time where you would be like
59:55
on an indie label and if you sold like you know 10 20,000 records or something like that like you could make some you know you wouldn't be rich but you could make some money and if you were in a band that sold 100,000 records you'd be really stoked and um but like that all the record labels you know in around the the white stripes, they started folding up. And so I think that that kind of
1:00:14
And so I think that that kind of like the kind of people that >> came up in the scene that the White Stripes came up and were now working in corporations, you know what I mean?
1:00:22
So they would be like, "Dude, like they'd be talking to their boss, this band, the White Stripes is really cool.
1:00:28
I saw them in Detroit and they're really dope.
1:00:31
Let's give them a grip of cash to do it."
1:00:33
And the boss is like, "Okay, if you say so.
1:00:35
I'm, you know, I'm a boomer." You know what I mean?
1:00:37
And now like that's just like writ large to like our people that came up in these scenes are have done stuff with their interest in creative realm.
1:00:49
>> And it also explains why we're um in a couple of months we're getting that Ford Bronco ad with a quicksand soundtrack in it which we're excited about as well.
1:00:54
>> I mean >> yeah we're doing an ad for Ford. What is that? Ford Bronco ready to go. We drive them. >> We drive them. >> We drive them. We drive them.
1:01:02
Um man, shows to be done.
1:01:05
One in Los Angeles tonight.
1:01:07
tonight. um which I don't think I'm going to be able to make which is Chris Fallen for me but of course I'm I'm going to come see you in New Zealand which hasn't been announced but I'm from here so Alan gave me the group the green light to provisionally say you're going down under to do some Australian and I
1:01:21
always go back every four months to see family but I time it around shows that's a little secret so uh so I'm going to come back and see you in New Zealand for sure >> wonderful highlight I just you know for me honestly truthfully it's just such a joy to be able to have um had this moment now >> Mhm. M
1:01:36
M >> you know um we met with the tones >> and we met today which is a moment for me and we met multiple times over multiple different journeys for you.
1:01:46
But to have a quick sing moment like this in 2026 is so nourishing for me because a to your point the album is so good and b I realize that now we can play catchup and uh for lost time and the door will open again and you will walk in here again on the next one and on the next one if you'll have us.
1:02:02
So thanks for coming in man.
1:02:03
I love you guys and thank you for everything you've done for all of us who love your music. >> Yeah.
1:02:08
>> Thank you for having us in your kindness. >> Pleasure.