0:00
One day you're gonna say to me when we're 80s like oh I'll never make 80. There's no way. Yeah, you will.
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0:05
I I tell you what though.
0:05
I will come back and move your furniture around. Good man.
0:09
I'll be like boo and I'll knock over a sh lounge and you're like that's not easy.
0:15
I'll be like really Josh is that it?
0:17
You don't know how hard it is to boo somebody? It's really hard. It takes so much energy. Scares are a nightmare. [Music] Hi. Hi. How you doing? I'm great.
0:30
I'm always great when I'm in the in the room with you. Oh, come on.
0:34
You know, this is a beautiful kind of Lucy conversationwise.
0:38
Everything beautifully deliberate around this wonderful piece of art you're releasing, but I mean, you probably don't need necessarily to tread the boards on this one is my point. Yeah.
0:48
It's not a conventional album thing.
0:50
It speaks for itself beautifully.
0:52
It's a you're you're really delivering it to fans in a very heartfelt and and very linear way.
0:56
It's like, hey, come and experience this. You know, people will.
1:00
So, I'm grateful for this.
1:00
Well, it's a little different in in that the point is just to see it, you know. Yeah.
1:06
But I'm also I'm proud of it. So, yeah.
1:09
And uh also someone told me to talk about it.
1:12
So, but I'm that's not why I'm here with you because actually you and I are you and I are buddies.
1:18
We could have just went to dinner. Yeah.
1:20
I could just put a phone down with voice memo recording. Don't record. No.
1:23
Again, we could have just stopped recording our dinners.
1:27
That's where I get my material from, man.
1:29
Weirdest spank bank ever. Yeah, baby.
1:34
Why are you wearing AirPods again when you're in bed? Don't worry about it. Just come closer. All right, we're good. Uh, okay.
1:41
Um, the title itself has humor in it, but it's but it, you know, in a in a in a beautiful kind of Queen's way in a, you know, in a sort of like, yeah, we're alive.
1:50
We're h happening, but guess where we're alive, you know?
1:52
It's like we're the only ones in here that are No. Uh, yeah. No. Yeah.
1:56
I like I like things that are just a little cheeky. Yeah. It's got that.
2:01
But the experience itself is it's really moving, man.
2:04
And it's and we're going to dive into all of it as much as you you want to talk about it because there's such a story to this whole experience dating back the idea of going into the catacombs and and this dates back decades before you actually got a chance to go on with the with the with the band and with musicians to do it.
2:21
You know, I always enjoy hanging with you, but this part of it isn't always my favorite part, the talking about stuff and and but in this case, I tried to give you an out at the very top and you didn't take it.
2:30
So now you're in just a goodbye. Just all right, cool.
2:35
You didn't get the point.
2:35
I was like saying you can leave giving me a chance to bail.
2:38
I don't mean it's not it's not a disc.
2:40
It's just that it's it's more confusing sometimes to talk about something or it's just harder.
2:44
But um in the discussion of of this, I keep having little mini realizations about it because you know um my fascination with the catacomb started as a boy uh and seeing pictures and and trying to get your head around that obviously in the simplest terms there's a bunch of bodies and they're stacked in a certain manner.
3:10
you know, it's 200 miles of, you know, of human skeletal remains that ultimately create a foundation. Yeah.
3:18
Very far below ground level.
3:21
But I you start having these immediate realizations like um you know these things are built out of sheer love and respect and reverence and uh you know no one would move 6 million um you know remains and stack them in with such care uh unless they just had an absolute love and respect for life and uh that permeates that structure.
3:48
So it's so dominating, you know, and and even the notion that I this really started when I was around eight in a history class and I developed this fascination and and so I have these weird they're not weird, they're just a little humbling realizations that like I I've been working on this actually since I was little or it's a like a dream. Yeah.
4:14
That kept evolving and and the result is is this performance.
4:17
It's just kind of It's kind of nice actually.
4:20
Where were you when you actually got to go in for the first time?
4:24
Well, I mean that's the thing.
4:26
There's also a sort of entitled spoiled aspect to this is that somewhere around 1920 18 years ago I I on a day off in Paris I tried to go in the catacombs and the line was three and a half hours long. Did you get Disney pass?
4:43
Well, that's why I was like, how do I skip the line and which is a really kind of a shitty qu like question to like how do I skirt the my responsibility with that everyone else is sharing.
4:58
I think that it doesn't matter the idea's origin, it's sort of how you deliver it at the end of the day.
5:04
And and so it became this sort of um you know, initially it was like there's no way someone will allow us to play in the catacombs.
5:12
And that's the response I got.
5:13
Did you ask straight after you cut the line and went down? No, I didn't go in. Oh, you didn't go in.
5:20
You actually were a good guy about it.
5:21
The first time that I went in to the catacombs was the Sunday night before we filmed. Wow.
5:26
So, because I I I sort of said, "No, no, no, no. They're attached. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to go like so.
5:32
And and and if I'm honest, I I I I don't for many years I never believed it was a possibility because it's a shame the French don't have a word for bureaucracy.
5:45
But but uh it seemed like we were going to get the runaround forever.
5:51
It was like no, you must ask him and then you must ask her.
5:52
And And what do you think the resistance was ultimately based on your experience of kind of going around the houses?
5:57
Well, it was that was like this is too hard and it's annoying and no one's ever done this and why would I spend time helping you do this thing and there's three hours which is a legit for sure.
6:10
And have you seen the queue outside? We're good. Yeah. Well, yeah.
6:14
I mean, attention was what it didn't require, but it wasn't really about attention.
6:18
It was like uh, you know, trying to do something that just seemed like, oh, this could be beautiful.
6:26
this could be this could be elegant.
6:29
You don't really know, especially because you hadn't been in.
6:31
And that does like low-key blow my mind because if you've been in and you've kind of had the experience and enjoyed the experience and kind of and and and absorbed it once and gone, I can actually feel what this will be like, that's one thing.
6:46
But but to have not actually done that and still pushed forward on on this this dream of being able to do it is kind of well I didn't want to spoil that first date feeling with 6 million dead. Yeah.
6:59
It it it became it became more about I'd like to actually make this this dream happen.
7:11
And I like that first I'd like my reaction to be right before this happens.
7:16
it that just felt like a part of this that sort of desire for it to have this improv element to it.
7:24
You know, I was what's the the improv thing is that you no matter what's thrown at you, you say yes.
7:30
And you know, and when we did our walk through, you know, we didn't make a lot of definitive plans because it felt as if whatever we will plan to do will not. It won't.
7:43
whatever works above doesn't work below it in this instance. Yeah. And that was very true.
7:50
So in that walkth through it was like an improv.
7:52
The director Tomas and and you know on on Dean the the producer were we're walking through saying okay we could do this we could do we could shoot over here.
8:02
What if we and I think that allowed us to to move at the speed of inspiration.
8:07
And so you're only doing what's exciting to you.
8:09
And I I'm glad that that's the the path we took because you're only making a choice based on going, "Oh, oh, okay. Okay." Yeah.
8:18
You know, it's very on brand for you as well.
8:23
I mean, it just is in terms of your whole story.
8:24
I mean, it it it reminds me a little bit of the beginning of the stories you told us of going out to the desert with your friends and figuring it out.
8:31
And, you know, you've learned so much and done so much since then.
8:35
And you've also got the capabilities of a as a band to move into this into the the the framework very easily.
8:40
It's like, hey, this summer being an example, we're going to go spend a couple months in Europe and smash the out of us of some big parks.
8:46
But did this feel to some degree like a little bit of a return to that sort of that energy of like, okay, like we're just going to have to let it let go.
8:55
I think you life is so habit forming.
8:58
You will form a habit of some kind.
9:00
And the my relationship with music has always been even if there's a problem, let's solve it in a way that seems, you know, enjoyable, you know, and and so there's nowhere to play, so we'll go play outside with generators.
9:15
That that sort of I've got a I've got an idea and allowing those because you don't know what you're doing.
9:20
You don't know if you're not allowed to do that isn't really part of the discussion.
9:24
You just creative problem solving.
9:26
So in reflecting it's it's a lot like playing outdoors.
9:32
I I agree with that and and and you know you can't plug anything in at the catacombs. No amplification at all. Yeah.
9:39
We had a a a world at serve that we just hooked to a car battery.
9:41
So it was like okay don't and the water's dripping and you're like will that was Dean going to go hey you know cuz there ain't no outlet stuff man. No there's no.
9:54
So everything was battery powered and and so you start saying, "Okay, if I'm wearing a mic like a like you're on a telly on the telly, some that means I could just go wherever I like to go in this place."
10:06
And so it opened up um a little bit of a bizarre ability to sort of take a tour of the catacombs while you're flying.
10:18
It feels like it when you watch it. It really does. it.
10:20
I'm so glad you you said that because when I watched it, I was struck by how non-performative it felt.
10:28
You know, the goal for me is always just like one moment in life where it feels real and and and that is my normal, you know, where I'm like, I know this is real.
10:39
I I believe what's happening. Yeah.
10:41
And so it allowed for that to actually just move in the moment, react in the moment and and um and you know that space is so dominating cuz it's low as well, right?
10:58
It all feels very claustrophobic and I don't mean that that's a very negative term for most people, but it does or is intimate a better term.
11:05
In other places playing live, it's almost like feels like I have a fire hose and it's squirting the people or something.
11:11
Um, I really sexualize that on accident.
11:15
But this felt like we were in the belly of something else.
11:19
We were surrounded by it. It's very organic.
11:21
The ceiling is dripping with with condensation.
11:24
The air has this thickness to it.
11:26
And I mean, I know it's obvious we're inside this thing, but it felt like we're deep inside the um this organic thing, you know, the the ground is is often times wet and has gravel, so you're you every step happens. You understand it. Yeah.
11:46
It's it's very ASMR in there. Yeah.
11:46
And you know when you're playing something that's stripped down to the bones in I guess in front of people that are stripped to the bones too which was another just it just felt intuitively like this should you know this should be when there's almost nothing being performed everything is uh more important somehow you know and uh so when you're doing that um the ceiling dripping and the camera people were walking and it's crunching on the ground.
12:21
It becomes part of the performance and there was so there was one moment where it was like should we you know use an audio program to remove the crunching of the and I thought I don't know I don't even understand what that question is that's what happened and um and it's okay no one's going to listen and say I I love it but this crunching is driving me bananas.
12:42
We always used to joke whenever we would do outside broadcast on radio and places and then we would get there and they'd put us in a conference room at a hotel and I'm like so we just traveled 3 hours to be in a room we could have been anywhere in the world, right?
12:56
Have everyone sterilized.
12:58
I I think that there's such a difference between a quest for perfection and a and a quest for something great.
13:04
they're they're so far apart from each other as it translates for what we' done is that uh you know for a number of reasons some of them were physical for me and then um and much of it was just not trying to overdo it.
13:22
It's not supposed to be perfect.
13:24
You know you're hearing take three of four, take two of three, take one of two, take two of two.
13:29
There wasn't a need to that quest wasn't for perfection. And there are mistakes.
13:36
There's one moment I just got this like surging pain.
13:39
So I'm singing, I just go, "Ah."
13:43
But I also thought, "Wow, it's amazing moment."
13:46
You know, I I I because um this is how it was.
13:49
And so it's not it almost feels like it's not my business to change it.
13:54
Like that has nothing to do with it.
13:57
And again, I don't believe someone will hear this. It's in the first song.
14:01
It's like I'm like, "Look at you."
14:03
I know exactly what you're talking about.
14:05
I don't think that someone's going to hear that and be like, "All right, well, I'm out.
14:08
It's just not going to do, you know, and like there's tuning issues sometimes."
14:13
And there's as I'm walking around, I have to hear where someone else is.
14:17
We're almost get off from each other, but we don't.
14:21
No, it's a testament to how how beautiful the beautiful place you've found yourselves as friends and as abandoned and with the additional players as well. Just it was clear.
14:27
It's clear when you watch it and when you listen to it that everybody was feeling that sense of faithfulness, wanting to be faithful to the environment that you were in. Yeah.
14:41
Well, it is a very humbling place.
14:42
I I mean, you you go down in there and you um there's all these existential questions that just sort of hit you straight away.
14:53
And respect is the number one feeling where it's like u feeling humbled and sort of respected and but I like that feeling small.
15:02
That's what I love about the desert is you're sort of dwarfed by the landscape and in that moment of feeling a bit unimportant.
15:11
You're like I simply should I'm here to do my part. Serve. Yeah. Yeah.
15:14
And so it very much felt like you know you're getting on your knees and putting your head down.
15:20
and you say, "I I swear to do what I'm supposed to do here today." When did you film this? What was the dateish?
15:27
It was in July, like of I think there was a two in it. Yeah.
15:31
So that that maps so you were off the road almost immediately after you did this performance, you know.
15:38
Um I knew something was I knew something was wrong.
15:42
You know, for those people that don't know, you took some time because you had a health you had a health situation that needed to be dealt with.
15:48
So, this is where this is where we lay it on the table and you go and you take us into the story as far as you want to take us.
15:53
But I've been I've been working on this for so long and it's a bit like trying to catch smoke in your hand.
15:57
It just it it's so elusive at times.
15:59
It had been close and gone away and and I just knew if if we didn't do it, there was a strong chance it was going to go away forever because it's just it's such a timing thing, you know.
16:13
How did other people feel?
16:15
What was the what was the recommendation on high from those that love you the most to to go home to to stop?
16:22
I and I and I understand that too because if you care about someone Yeah.
16:26
you don't want to see them.
16:26
it it seems senseless to push on, you know, but also and I understand that, but the you know, this also brings up, you know, these issues that don't come up all the time, like you don't often get a chance to to show who you really are.
16:45
You know, most of the time you're playing a gig and you're you're trying to do your best to make it a special night, but but but the request isn't like who are you? Can you do this or not?
16:57
That's so like a bit like what I would call a shut up and me situation where it's like stop talking.
17:02
Are you gonna do it or not?
17:02
You know, can you pull this off?
17:05
And like we're all here and it's time to do this.
17:10
What are you going to do?
17:10
And and I I'm very thankful for those moments.
17:12
And the physical side or the ouchy side is like I can do that that I understand that.
17:23
And um uh and I get it and I get the discomfort.
17:27
Yeah, there's a Tik Tok montage out there somewhere of you with a broken leg over here and some injury over there. It's like shut up.
17:33
And yeah, because I everyone cancels and I can't stand it, you know?
17:36
And and I and also um like how much how it's only a couple extra hours, you know what I mean?
17:45
and also realize the inherentity of some of the stuff I've done that is in that wing of things and I kind of have made a vow that I don't want to walk on stage injured anymore you know so um cuz it it can get dire which is what it the consequences were pretty elevated at the end but I just wanted it so bad you know and I and I also like I listened I was asked to reconsider And but the answer is no.
18:15
And and like you just now you have to just now let's do it, you know.
18:20
But I do think that um that it made it better.
18:24
I'm going to get to that part.
18:26
I'm I'm I'm really interested in that aspect of Well, we would have just played and there there's we made a little behind the scenes documentary and that documentary would have went something like, "Man, it's so cool to be here and things like that."
18:36
And instead I I was looking around at the location we were and um you know all these people that are that are now just what's left and their source energy is somewhere else. It it's gone home. You know what I mean?
19:00
And like I was having issues that involve that same feeling, you know?
19:06
and uh and it it made it like I felt like I'm where I belong.
19:12
I'm I'm supposed to be here. Did you feel supported? Yeah, absolutely.
19:19
There was a moment where everyone broke for lunch.
19:22
There's likeund I think it's 132 spir you just go right on the spiral staircase coming down. No lift. No, no, no. And uh 132.
19:30
And so I had done it about nine or 10 times, you know, just it's like if you want if you want to use the restroom, if you want to like, you know, uh get get like a snack or something like that, you have to go up the thing.
19:46
Anyways, everyone broke for lunch and I just honestly I could not like eat and I couldn't I couldn't go up again.
19:54
I was getting a little exhausted and um Is that you? That that is me.
19:59
So I was like, I'm going to lay here and and just rest, you know, but you know, you're a couple, you know, you're the better part of 100 meters down and and a few, you know, maybe 300 400 meters horizontal deep into this thing and and the catacombs is 100% empty except for me and 6 million plus, you know, deceased people.
20:22
And I thought, h first I thought if the lights go out, this is going to be one crazy Braille Army man like seriously.
20:29
And then I was like, if ever there was a time to be haunted, this is it.
20:34
And so I was like, what do you got?
20:37
You know, and instead of feeling sort of I guess I felt sort of embraced and supported, you know. Yeah.
20:50
And and I felt really calm.
20:52
It was the most calm I felt all day.
20:54
And I it felt like a little bit like don't just play here, like stay here, you know? Yeah.
21:00
And so I fell asleep like a like a baby.
21:03
And I had my car was in this uh in the sort of the entrance of this very dark hallway that had one light like about 100 ft down.
21:13
And I'm just I'm just pissed with that.
21:14
I'm just thinking about the crew.
21:14
And the crew are just like, "Where are we going to put Josh's rest?
21:17
Where are we going to put his medivvac bed?" It's like over here. I got the perfect spot. It's put dark hallway.
21:27
Those type of things don't bother me, you know?
21:29
Like I I'm just like, you know, if you're just going to move the furniture, I'm okay with a little redecorating if you're a ghost. You know what I mean?
21:37
It's just like they move the chair and I was like, fantastic.
21:39
I was going to put it over there myself. And I So, yes. So, you get to your car.
21:44
I'm I fall asleep and I hear that familiar crunching and a little bit of French and it's these two young interns.
21:50
They're walking and talking and I just sit up and go, "What time is it?"
21:52
And they go, "H" and I was like, "Oh, oh, P."
21:55
You know, Scooby-Doo doing Yeah.
21:59
They're never going to forget that, you know.
22:03
But the the willingness to sort of push on like I get to have those stories and those moments like that.
22:08
I I mean, after all, all this is just an attempt to steal moments out of the sky and make them yours and and and and just hold it for a sec, then let it go. You know what I mean?
22:19
only you know you know what your limitations are. We've seen this before.
22:22
You obviously have a very high threshold and a very strong discipline and desire to deliver on your promises and and that's something I've I think I've known about you from the beginning because you've said yes to every interview I've asked you to do when you've said yes and never not shown up and I'm like man there's definitely times you didn't want to come.
22:36
So you're a man of your honor in that regard.
22:38
But but but that well but but that well true but that but that being said and this is the last time I'll be granular about it but I think it's important context because then we're going to get to the to the influence on the performance. How bad was the pain?
22:51
I did not like it you know and I you know I think um everyone agrees that it's annoying to complain and things like that.
23:00
and things like that. There were there were you know I also was taking all this medication which is just like um can steal your voice a little bit and and and uh um make you obviously pretty woozy and the medication just wasn't
23:16
working you know so it was difficult for me uh but I tried to you know I like to joke in those moments because you know when life is good it's funny and when life is is hard it's really funny you know I mean I I would have preferred heard it if it was a lot less. It was a It was a It was a lot.
23:33
It's always funny until someone gets hurt and then it's just hilarious. You're right.
23:38
But I also again I think it makes it better because it really made me question what's important and we agreed that that uh you know when when Tomas would say action that we would just sit for 30 seconds and wait and we do the same after and you hear the dripping and you're looking at each other.
24:03
You're looking around and you're just breathing and it's like, I'm gonna do it.
24:09
I'm gonna I'm gonna, you know, I love that feeling when it's too late.
24:16
Like you don't you you don't you can't rehearse. You can't practice.
24:18
You can't It's just time to just be what you are and you have to let go.
24:23
Is it the most present you can feel probably in your life?
24:26
This is the moment where I feel like everything's okay because you have no chance.
24:31
you know, I just want insurmountable odds.
24:33
That's all I want is someone to tell me it's too late, you know, and and so I can be like, "All right, then what have I what have I got to lose?"
24:42
to lose?" So with that being said, I can imagine that in an experience where we are so preoccupied with our mortality and ultimately will all face death at some point and most people on earth have a sense of trepidation and fear about what that is that perhaps you have a different outtake because that will be
24:58
the ultimate threshold where it's like all right I'm well now that it's been you know and I don't want to like that's not these two things aren't related by the way separate and also like I don't want to keep like it's only four times now that I've like gotten pretty close and I and I don't want it to be a focus of my life and yeah, that's what I'm saying. They're not related this
25:18
They're not related this situation and there's nothing I can do about that.
25:21
I knew when we went in the catacombs the tour was over and we all the the band knew that no one else knew.
25:29
And I was sort of like it was such a great tour.
25:31
I had my whole family well had our families.
25:33
It was going to be great.
25:34
It was such a like a it's going to be such a joy and so I was just like god damn it, man.
25:42
you know, and but that frustration of like, no, that's that helps fuel you, you know what I mean?
25:48
To be like, no, no, it's not over. No, it's not.
25:50
And I I like that feeling.
25:53
The truth the truth is is that each time I've had something where I was like, oops, almost died.
26:00
I've never felt more alive than the than I did the day I almost died.
26:03
I I I I'm not looking for that.
26:06
I'm just saying that um the focus of like I appreciate what I have.
26:14
If given the chance to fix this and move forward, I will.
26:16
I know what matters to me.
26:19
Family, um music, nothing, right?
26:24
I understand like I don't need any extra. I don't want any extra.
26:28
And it's like and and um and you know I've had these situations come up a lot in the last decade where it doesn't really matter if you like it or not.
26:40
It's here and so what are you going to do?
26:42
And I and and in those moments it that's has its own sucking sound.
26:48
But but post that I always feel like really thankful that like um I don't think I've ever grown as much in a short period of time.
26:54
And it's got a touch of misery attached to it.
26:57
at the end of the day, I forget that quickly.
27:01
And I'm just really glad that that um for the qu for the lesson, you know, and I um cuz I would like to be able to do this better and better and better.
27:10
And I and I need those kind of like smacked in the eyeballs with a ruler sometimes to like uh okay, and and sort of change my direction a little bit.
27:20
And I'm really thankful for that.
27:22
And um I don't think about how much it hurt in the moment cuz who cares?
27:26
It's beautiful to watch and beautiful to listen to and and I knew I knew some of this.
27:30
We talked before I watched it.
27:32
I was amazed at how I wasn't preoccupied with that aspect of the of what I knew versus what I was experiencing.
27:39
I was immediately drawn into this kind of very immersive, beautiful experience that you and the band and the directors and everybody had lovingly created.
27:47
And and I really think it's like it's so Thank you. I appreciate that.
27:52
so worthy of our time and our attention which is so stretched out.
27:58
And so to be able to kind of sit down and and this is where I just get to elaborate a little bit and and and you know really get close to experiencing the atmosphere and the sense of like real gravitas that was going on at that moment.
28:14
It's it's fascinating how you remove that fourth wall with this.
28:17
Well, but can I say that that you we're talking about this issue which I had and and and and all that stuff is okay.
28:25
So, that's true, but but the truth is when you watch this thing, it's it's not no diss on MTV unplugged is a cool thing, but it's not an MTV unplugged. No, it's definitely not.
28:37
It's not simply just playing acoustically.
28:40
And the the the bigger truth is that the catacombs is so the protagonist, it's so overwhelming.
28:48
Yeah, that felt like at all times that we were just serving this um um this audience which really deserved attention like that this is for you.
29:08
You know, people are viewing it a bit like a zoo in a way, but this was like I br something for you. Mhm.
29:16
I got you this thing and can I show it to you?
29:19
You know, and like it felt like we were having this moment together, you know, and I and I and and so which is like any other concert.
29:28
It's just there we were live and kicking and standing in front of you drinking in a field.
29:30
It's it that's why I love the line that you said in the you know it's the largest audience we've just six million people.
29:38
Well, and it was I mean sure it's a captive audience but I but I it's a captive audience. you keep them coming.
29:45
Those that I mean and th that's just real.
29:48
It's funny, but it's real.
29:48
And it it also was like no workouts. Yeah.
29:50
I will say no return tickets, but the the uh I I think um again in that day, the best I felt is when we were playing.
30:04
I felt it all It's funny how it all sort of rushes away.
30:09
And um even like you show that photo and it's like okay.
30:12
So, I was like, uh, do we have a minute?
30:15
I'm just going to lay down for a second. Right.
30:17
But the improv nature, the moving at the speed of inspiration, the um looking for something that gives you a a shot of joy for a second and going, I'll go that way. Right.
30:30
So, I'm laying there and Thomas goes, don't move.
30:33
What if can you start from here?
30:35
And I was like, can I start laying down? You bet your ass I can.
30:43
So those things turn into these sort of heavyweight moments of this thing because um because they're just chasing down things that are good.
30:53
I think it's like you're in the darkness and all you're doing is running at lights.
30:57
Well, you set yourselves up for that.
30:58
That's the beautiful thing.
31:00
By not going down, by not having a exposing yourself to the environment, allowing your imagination and your creativity to start to overthink, you know, to go in there and be like, "All right, well, this is happening.
31:10
I had a chance to get off to to postpone this or perhaps never do it. It's happening.
31:14
We're coming in pretty fresh. I feel this way. How do you feel?
31:22
Yeah, I think the being shocked by the wonder of the place was really helpful.
31:28
And I also think that as I said, like you whatever plans you had above, that's just not going to work.
31:34
And so you're forced to accept what's going on and let go of the control.
31:40
And I also really love those moments too.
31:42
You know, we're all trying to make a world that you want to live in and all that stuff and and I of course it Yeah.
31:49
But it is also nice to say um you know, I am just a passenger and I'm going to I'm just I'm not in control here. This isn't mine.
31:59
I don't own this situation.
32:01
I I I only have a chance at at being really part of the moment.
32:04
You know, we've never really talked that much about faith.
32:07
It's just we've dabbled in it a little bit here and there, but we've talked a lot about many things.
32:15
And I think about that moment when you felt very supported and comforted.
32:17
You definitely didn't feel alone. That's the headline.
32:21
You you didn't lie there in complete silence. I was not alone. You were not alone.
32:24
And so what have you kept from that?
32:26
How has that altered when you go above ground and then the matrix of life starts to reform and you start to see responsibilities the things you do and not in life but then there's that intangible right that kind of connection to spirit to something we don't understand. Yeah.
32:43
How did this experience alter that for you moving forward? Was it profound?
32:47
It's been slapping me in the face like a freshly caught fish for the like many these last grip of years.
32:54
is like again dealing with situations where in the moment you're like I don't like this and and the universe says oh I'm sorry I didn't ask you that that's not part of this whether you like it or not and I and I but I always have walked away feeling like okay that was actually a sort of a blessed moment a chance for me to um lose part of well I don't want to do this you know lose part of that and accept you know, uh, accept what is real.
33:26
I'd hate to be the last person holding on too tight to something which is not so.
33:34
And I, you know, I know that I find it so strange that I grab an apple and I chew it with the only bones exposed in my whole body into a pulp.
33:41
It goes down here and it goes into a holding tank.
33:46
And somehow my source energy, my soul, if you want to call it that, my life source takes that and says, "We're going to use it to fuel the bag that protects me so I can so I can venture on with my thoughts and try to make the dreams that I have bring them into this reality."
34:05
And that source energy cannot simply go away.
34:09
M you know when my bag is done living because it cannot no longer that source energy goes home it's it must go somewhere it doesn't just go bye you know and I would love to see how far this can go in this medium this is the way I figure out my stuff you know is to play and so I want my soul to drag my bag as far into the darkness as I can and you know I used to think that there There's a bit of immortality attached to the music side.
34:41
You could outlive your your own life.
34:43
But frankly, there's a whole generation of people that are like Sinatra who you know that's not it's I'm not sure it really Yeah, we know Beethoven, but we don't know Joe the Ragman and Gravel Gertie that also wrote some classical music. You know what I mean?
34:59
But then I realized like no, my my blood that the the stuff that was given to me that I give to my children, they'll play their part, right?
35:08
is like and when my source goes away they'll have a piece of mine as I have a piece of the you know my you know my family and it's like and I that there's this beautiful comfort in that for me is that being a little piece of something and I like the hardship you know it's like you know my my grandpa's like I'm only asking for one thing all you've got it's like in these moments it's like well that's what I brought That's what I brought.
35:38
That's what I brought here. All I got.
35:40
We've talked about him before quite a few times.
35:42
In fact, the first time I ever met you and Nick, um I remember you you quoted your your granddad and he's obviously, you know, given you some great principles to live by.
35:51
Um did you think about him when you were recording this?
35:53
You know, I didn't have the sort of emotional bandwidth.
35:56
It was either play or like Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
35:59
or both as the beginning of the also my grandma was such a badass, too. She was a painter.
36:05
the first woman to fly a plane in North Dakota, which maybe there wasn't a lot of attempts there, but still it's that someone did it, you know, a painter and she even smoked sigies with one of them filters like hell yeah like and watch
36:18
I'm touting it's but she was just a jack of all trades and a very straight shooter and an expert horseman and uh so I I always had this reverence for my you know the the homicide of the grandparents and stuff like that. So I I
36:32
grandparents and stuff like that. So I I think of like you know things like my name is important to me you know it's like I and at times when I've you know at times I've blown it up bigger and other times I've stabbed it with a pen knife and like you know um and um but
36:48
that's the way it goes right I always you know what is it like wisdom comes from experience and experience comes from bad decisions so I so if that metric is correct you know I've picked up a lot of wisdom You know, I'd like to be able to um make the right guess for a situation. And even the songs we chose, it's like
37:10
And even the songs we chose, it's like we're not supposed to roll the hits in the catacombs. I loved the selections.
37:18
Well, it's supposed to be about family acceptance.
37:22
um the moments that difficulties arise and the moments just after they're solved or they're or they're not solved, they're dealt with, you know, and it was because it was like um if you've been in here for a couple hundred years, what do you want to hear about?
37:41
What do you want to hear?
37:41
And it was like trying to gauge the requests of six million requests.
37:47
You know, it's like you'd want to hear about family.
37:52
You'd want to hear about love, loss, and acceptance as as the bridge between them.
37:58
You know, I lovely for you to be able to acknowledge just simply by creating this beautiful sort of sonic song template that you have those songs that you've throughout all of the moments that have made us jump and drink and feel badass and drive a little faster than we should. A little sex as well.
38:17
And yeah, in that part I was getting to that.
38:18
I mean, you know, it was might as well, you know, and Um, that you know, you've you've touched on these things and and it's true like when you watch this performance, you realize like, wow, okay, there is a tapestry being woven here for some reasons as obvious as the other stuff is louder.
38:36
It sort of like pushes our mellower things aside at times has.
38:43
But, um, I'm no spring chicken.
38:43
And also, you know, I I think as I've been learning to uh play music, as I've been learning as the years have gone on, I realized that heaviness is more content than distortion driven and stuff can be much heavier, dude.
39:00
Wing Victory, the Sullen that I sent you is one of the heaviest albums I've heard in a long time. Yeah.
39:05
And I I think those things they they don't they the weight that they carry is much more interesting as the years go on for me.
39:13
And so I also think that, you know, this is about looking for a place to jump to next.
39:19
And wherever we've been, I just can't do that again.
39:23
And I'm just not interested.
39:24
And and and I that's okay, you know, and not everyone agrees with the next jump you make. And that's okay, too. Totally fine.
39:31
But um but as long as I say that as a fan point of view, totally fine. Go where you want to go.
39:38
Well, I either we'll either follow you into the room or humbly come in cap in hand some years later and say, "Sorry, I still suck." Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, the opposite.
39:48
Sorry, it just took me a minute. Yeah.
39:50
Well, I think Sorry, Tom York. Just took me a minute. Yeah.
39:54
Well, I think you know, I used I told Ronson Yeah.
39:56
I was like, "If 15% of people don't hate your new thing, you suck."
40:01
And and he was like, "I'm just trying to get it to 45.
40:06
I'm just trying to get to 45 and I just, you know, I was trying to get to 45.
40:09
I just wrote a book and I No, but I think I think you have to take those uh risks and and you know, again, the goal is to make the last thing I would ever make my best thing because I've learned all this stuff.
40:22
And so that means every step along the way you have to risk.
40:24
You definitely are going to fail. Yeah.
40:26
And and I get that and that's okay.
40:28
I think we play loud, we play soft, we play here, we play there.
40:34
You know, we um I think it's just really important to keep the attempt alive.
40:43
You know, you must attempt again.
40:45
You must take that risk again.
40:45
and and you know and I think I'm proud of this and and I'm I'm pleased that um that it somehow came together more than what I hoped it would.
41:00
You got to feel like all of the all of the parts played a role that at the time the recommendation is to not but I will.
41:09
But that's why you don't go home though.
41:10
That's why you don't listen to you don't you you listen to that inner voice in these moments and you and you ignore even even though you know that they they might be preferable or better advice.
41:23
There are times when you're like, I'm sorry.
41:25
I can't I have to take worse advice right now because I can see my pathway requires a little stupidity in order to get to the end goal, you know, because what would have what's the benefit if I listened to that advice?
41:41
You know, I was in this emergency room and in between I just couldn't take it.
41:48
I had a bus pull over and I was just like, you know, um we ended up having to cancel Venice show and somewhere between Venice and Milan and I'm in a emergency room before this is before catacombs. Yeah.
41:58
And they're like, "You should probably stay here."
42:01
And I was like, they didn't know what I had. You know what I mean?
42:06
So they, you know, people thought I had a hernia and things like that.
42:09
So one day you're going to say to me when we're 80, it's like, "Oh, I'll never make 80. There's no way." Yeah, you will.
42:14
I I tell you what, though.
42:16
I will come back and move your furniture around. Good man. I'll be like, "Boo."
42:23
And I'll knock over a sh lounge and you're like, "That's not easy."
42:25
I'll be like, "Really, Josh? Is that it?
42:27
Change all the clocks in your house." Really, Josh? Pretty good.
42:30
Guess who's late to dinner?
42:33
This is some base level ghost homie.
42:35
You don't know how hard it is to boost somebody. It's really hard. It takes so much energy. Scares are a nightmare.
42:40
You think it's really easy?
42:42
It's really hard to change a clock.
42:42
I have two questions because this has gone by way too fast and um has it? No.
42:46
For me, we've talked in other conversations and in this conversation about the sum total of experience and and what we go through in phases of life and you've been through a lot.
42:59
There's been a lot of mortality both yourself and friends around you.
43:02
We've talked about that's what we all go through, right? Correct. Correct.
43:04
But we don't get to go to the catacombs and we don't get to perform in this environment and and and and have this kind of experience.
43:10
Was this did you feel like this this was I can't think of a better word so apologies because it really is kind of a bit of a a dump truck word but you know was there a bit of closure off the back of this you were like okay cool like I Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Well, yeah.
43:24
And and I was, you know, when when I when I got to make a record with Iggy and then do that tour, I was sort of like, okay, I could have done that forever, right?
43:36
I could have been in his backing band forever easily.
43:38
And but I was like, uh, what do I do? You know, uh, what now?
43:45
That just for me was such a high point.
43:47
I was I had moments where I was like, probably not going to play now anymore, you know?
43:52
This was a really helpful moment for me because um you know these are all miniature Everests.
44:02
They're like you're climbing your miniature Everest and and you know it's supposed to be hard supposed and it's supposed to be unlike what you expected and you're supposed to have to turn yourself over to it and let go.
44:14
And then you're supposed to back up and see what's there to to take away to survive another period of time until you find your next Everest.
44:26
I feel like I have the closure now that it's coming out because I was I'm not sick anymore. I feel great.
44:32
I was told I would be out for quite a while and like I'm not.
44:38
And uh and I'm being different to myself with myself and um um and I'm really loving it, mate.
44:45
You have not mastered that.
44:48
I'm I'm enjoying Well, you can't win them all, but you can lose most of them.
44:55
I I I'm enjoying um kind of like almost a new relationship with myself that was provided to me by this experience.
45:01
And um so um so I'm really thankful and I yeah that's all I have to say about that.
45:11
It leads perfectly into my final question which is where I lean into.
45:15
Yes, I'll go to dinner with you. I'd love to. You know that. So where are you now? Where's the band? What's going on?
45:22
We know you're heading to Europe. This is exciting.
45:25
You've got a few a run of shows like a few shows in America which is a nice touch as well.
45:28
Oh, and you been I'm I'm I cannot stand saying I'm going to do something.
45:32
So, I'm going to finish what I started.
45:34
I'm going to finish what was left on the table last year.
45:38
And um and I'm just going to enjoy it.
45:42
Family's coming out again.
45:44
Everyone's going to have a great time. Yeah. Yeah.
45:45
Because that's what that's what I care about, you know?
45:48
It's like I wanna I don't want to let that stuff go, you know?
45:52
They're only your roommates for 18 or 19 years on. Trust me, I know.
45:56
you know, and I I think we're gonna do a catacombs tour. What is that?
46:02
Taking one of your songs and saying, "Okay, what if the way that it is exists is not allowed?"
46:09
And I was taking these these building blocks and I was going to take these and just redo it in a different this way, you know, and it really inspired playing there was inspiring. We didn't overrehearse.
46:21
We didn't we, you know, things like acoustic guitar. Yeah. Fine.
46:26
I I I don't need a lots of acoustic guitar.
46:28
These other instruments like who knew Glock and Spiel would show up like the scariest lullabi you've ever heard in your life.
46:34
You know, I was with Bono two days ago and he was like name dropper. It's a good one though.
46:39
And he goes uh I go cuz I went back and listened to Boy and I listened to the first thing you ever put out. Great. Great record.
46:45
I said of course you counted it in.
46:47
First thing that ever happened. You had to count it in.
46:48
And he goes he goes he goes did you clock the Glock though?
46:52
Did you the Glock and Spiel?
46:55
Did you clock the Glock and Spiel?
46:56
See, unbeknownst to On the first single.
46:58
He's like, he said ballsy, huh? Ballsy.
46:59
Unbeknownst to people, the glock and spiel is hot and heavy.
47:04
Seriously, I was like, the glock and spiel.
47:06
He was like, I'll count it out.
47:07
A lot of people they say I don't even know how to say that word.
47:09
And I'm always like, I agree. You said it wrong. I just love Gorkenborg.
47:17
I just love that he was like angling for props from Glock.
47:20
He's like he's like, "Don't sleep on the fact we put a Glockage peel on our first single, motherfucker."
47:25
That's where you just take the mal and go boink.
47:26
Oh, bomb on the Glock, man.
47:29
Well, but I think these other instruments like Bono, Zad, uh, you know, they they take this kind of prominence.
47:36
So, I think it triggered this idea which is uh it'd be nice to take this moment and enjoy it too and and love that.
47:48
Let it explore what that is.
47:52
Explore the studio space, you know?
47:55
Um to just say, okay, what is does this road go further? What's that like?
47:58
It's it's great to just hugely curious, too. Yeah. I mean, why not? It is.
48:03
It is what it's what we're supposed to do anyways. Yeah. Yeah.
48:08
And I and I think it's great you're going to be able to barbecue backstage at FlyFest in Norway, but this is different kind of curiosity, right?
48:16
How do you like your flies down? Oh, yeah. Yeah.
48:23
So, I think we're going to uh and I also do I don't think you need to overdo these moments either.
48:29
I think you can sort of enjoy them and and leave some meat on the bone.
48:34
I don't think you need to pound I'm not convinced that I need to pound the pavement everywhere anymore.
48:39
I think you make these things to make them special.
48:42
You just don't do too much.
48:42
Is there an album coming at some point?
48:44
Yeah, there's a beautiful beautiful vinyl that's got like, you know, gold foil all over it and it's really it's really lovely, honestly.
48:53
And um what about New Queen's Record?
48:56
Is there a new Queen's record?
48:57
Well, you know, once I got the all clear to go back to work, you know, I'm gonna go, you know, I'm gonna go to work. Yeah. Yeah.
49:05
So, um, watch as the rockstar tries to figure out what he does or doesn't want to say at this early stage.
49:11
I guess the the answer to the question, uh, in his natural make a new record, it's like, would I do that?
49:22
So, I'll see you soon then. Yeah, probably. [Music]