I'm actually really excited to see which song people are drawn to the most um not saying that something that's specifically for next year I'm also excited to go on tour even though I no I'm lying I'm not but like I'm excited to visit I think I'm visiting New Zealand next year too you know if I have anything to do with [Music] it the position on this on the album is super deliberate I don't know if you get
like nerd out of a tracklist things I love tracklist things and ERS of things and stuff but I feel like this is like the door opens up a little bit and things you know what I mean wow I never thought about that I'm really bad at tracklisting I had to get people to tell me really really yeah I had to call mamas in cuz he's like the person I work with the most and I had to be like
literally tell me how this works cuz I don't know but people do care about tracklisting a lot I never realized until I was doing music it's one of those rare things where I think it as music's been kind of like broken down into individual components and split up and distributed like a trillion pieces it's nice to be able to create context and tell stories and you've had such a good time and we've had such a good time
hearing songs and EPs and mixtapes and stuff but this feels like an album to me start to finish so you and M Master got it right top to bottom appreciate you thank you so much congratulations on completing it thank you how did you feel when you finished it how did you know when you finished it I didn't know and I still don't know but um you never will yeah exactly I never will and I think
I'm just too I'm too like prepared at any time to go back in and like switch things around and change things and make things quote unquote better but then I realized in the process of doing that I'm actually making things worse so I had isn't it a part of not wanting to finish because it's fun too like I mean indecision is awesome really it's not fun for you I love it well you love the pro the
process is fine until it's not fine anymore right when to stop being fun I think that's when I'm starting to double guess myself cuz usually I don't double I was just saying like my ears like I'm so confident about with my ears but once my ears started to like question things I'm like God yeah that's when execu becomes one of the hardest things in the process exactly who helps you through
thata people like that do you turn to them and say hey look am I losing perspective here I think my my good friend for many years and um collaborator uh his name is Phil his producer name is Phil and he is actually one of the people I go to and say okay cool is this is this what do we think there's also a lot of school friends that I know are unbiased and won't tell
me things to like blow smoke that I turn to as well and then honestly I just look into the mirror sometimes and I physically asked myself in the mirror I'm like what do you think about this oh man self conversations especially when you're staring at yourself about something that's as deep as making music and Having the courage to share it yeah wow that's some hard it's some hard that's some hard I feel like
you've had to go and do a lot I mean I'm making an assumption here so please correct me but from the minute that you showed up and and everything was very deliberate and very thoughtful and you were very kind of reticent to show yourself and be up front of the music you let us make come to our conclusion and it worked it was like what a beautiful impression to just fall in
love with the songs and the and the feel and the performance and the honesty and then it's like all right cool who am I to people then like I can't hide forever like how's that experience been for you sort of emerging from that safe place out into this well it was it well I was actually speaking to my friend about this the other day because I was asking him well he told me randomly he was
saying you know what you've been so lucky because you have not had to prove who you are to people like you've not had to convince people about yourself like you've people have just done the convincing for you like people have almost just made their assumptions and you haven't really had to force anything and I was like oh my God yeah I never really thought about that I was like what do you mean by that and he goes
well you started in your bedroom and you are like the success story from your bedroom to like the main stage or whatever all of these accolades and um you did start from a bedroom and this is like your real life story like it's not like you've had to like take a picture of yourself in your bedroom on garage marketing exercise and I was like yeah you're kind of right and I think about
all the I mean no I I never look at other artists and think M what that but like I do I realize like the artists that I have I guess looked at during my own curan and looked at and thought wow they've really done it in a way which I think is like beautiful and effortless those are the people where I've realized like they haven't really had to convince anybody about anything they've just kind
of been themselves and like people have you know and um when I was emerging out from my shell of not really showing my face and then showing my face I realized that people were kind of it felt easy because people were telling me what I was I didn't have to be like this is what I am and their assumptions were correct it was like yes I am this shy girl from this small city in in in the UK um I am I was an emo I
am I do dress like this I do have this kind of humor like they were telling me and I was like yeah they're kind of right thank goodness because if they got it wrong you that identity is hard to shake and I've spoken to a lot of artists who have had on the receiving end of the wrong identity shape where people go oh that mystery like like this is who you are and they're like no no no
I've got to a whole lot more work to try to figure out how to present myself so that just speaks to the authenticity of the music and what you were putting across from a very early stage and and the emo thing is really fascinating to me because I hear it but I didn't realize the depth that it really affected you until I saw you on stage with Haley and the boys you know and like going out there and doing misery
business that moment which I thought was was one of my favorite moments from a sort of concert I've watched on YouTube or whatever for a while was that like a is that the perfect this is so good I was trying to talk to my friend about this the other day cuz I've been doing that right cuz I have two teenage boys I've been doing that a and my friend was like what I need to know when the time
is right for an a yeah and I've been trying to teach them from my perspective when the right a happened that was a good that was the best a I've ever done in my life a and it's really like there's a that wasn't as good that one because it's it is no because when you get it right it is a good feeling mhm right and it was self referential so yeah a a but then it can be kind of condescending too no
that's what's so beautiful about it is it's on the line anyway that was a when I watched you with parent Mo but that moment was amazing and I and I wonder kind of like what your youngest self would have felt like when you know you find not on your stage on someone else's stage Do Well I watched the same thing happen when I was 14 where she brought someone doing that exact bit to the
point where the manager came up before I went on stage he was like well we might call you up to the section you know like I'm not really too sure if we will but but like you know would you be down if we if we um pulled you from backstage would you be down to go up and he and I was like yeah of course but he was like oh by the way the section of the song is and I literally was like you don't need
to tell me which section of the song it is I know it is I know which part it is and I i' watched someone else do it like when I was 14 the same section she was wearing a dinosaur onesie and I remember thinking to myself I could never do what that woman did going up on that stage in front of I was like no way even going up on the stage now with those many people I was like this is horrible that's so
cool though what an amazing realization that you did MH and you could I could yeah so who was that 14-year-old kid who saw the concert and couldn't do that and not to put too big a context around it how did that person find the courage to want to express yourself in the first place um cuz you know where this road was leading you put out music chances are you're going to want to sing it in front of people see
that's never been my thing I've never ever had the belief of okay the music is here I want to sing it live never I could do like what in fact like in my head I always thought how am I going to do live shows and I always imagined I'd want to do shows as like listening parties where I'm not singing it but I'm actually more just listening with everyone else and like I don't know I
just never really thought to myself this is going to translate nicely I um the courage to do music really really stemmed from my desperation to be successful I did I I always wanted to be successful and I always knew I wanted to do exactly what I wanted to do in my brain and what that was was an accumulation it was like I wanted to be um I actually wanted to be like a flipping um film editor I wanted to be
in films there was even part of me I wanted to be an actress there was part of me that just wanted to be like some someone successful so I can just be happy about like the success that I've built for myself you know I just didn't want I knew I didn't want to have a job where I wasn't sure about My Success like I wanted it to be like okay I'm doing this job and I'm good at it so the
really came from I'm desperate right now so when I was 18 that was where I was like okay is between going to University or doing what I want as my dream job and it's so funny because at 19 I felt like time was running out isn't that weird that's I hear that I hear that from from Young Artists and I hear that from I mean I don't want to bring them into the context because it's like you know I
don't want to speak on my kids names or anything but I know that the generation I'll say this I know that the generation feels the pressure of time more than even I did when I was a kid and I felt like time was fast back then yeah it's crazy where do you think that comes from what do you think being someone who's kind of felt that way in 19 coming through the other side of it and
knowing you have space to continue to create and you have a lane and you are successful what do you think was motivating there any idea I think there a bunch of things honestly and actually this is it gets kind of deep at some points I think there was part me which was like okay I'm in my Prime right now in every in every sense my vocals will be the best they are because as you get older like I don't know how it aging
works but I just assume that they will decrease in time and quality I thought I'm young like I look probably the best I'm going to be able to look like now like it's crazy like this is really what I was thinking I was like um I'm in the best shape I'll be I'm in the best um mindset I have the most time I don't have a family yet I don't have a I don't have a partner yet um my parents are away in a different country right now so
they can't survey what I'm doing like there was a bunch of things that made me think that but also obviously the added pressure of seeing online media and seeing people starting things at 16 and fomo is real it's a real psychological thing yeah fomo you said yeah yeah I had fear of I literally had fear I was like oh my God these young people doing all these parties and like having money and
being able to buy cars I was like okay I really need to figure this out you need to figure it out it's a totally fair motivation and I can totally relate to it I mean I definitely had my motivations that I I would I could pretend that they were super pure and stuck in the Arts and all that stuff but a lot of it was trying to prove things to people trying to get past trauma tons
of reasons why I was motivated to go and do my um but at some point you come through the other side you have to decide whether you actually stick it out right yeah cuz you could walk away now and be like man you had records out you've done well you probably got some money in your pocket you could actually go and do something different so you got to make a decision and I guess you have like no I love this like yeah
yeah yeah that is true I mean I've still said I've said before that I want to have actually more than one career in my life I actually want to have like a total of four or five so part of me was like okay after music I'm going to do like and when I say career I mean like I'm not talking like in music I'm talking like a teacher or I want to be a detective or I want to be like something
I don't know if that'll actually happen because I don't know I think as time goes on once you get deeper into a job that you enjoy you kind of feel less like you want to leave um well that's but that can also come from Fear right that also comes from like I've got stuff now yeah I've got assets I've got stuff stuff stuff yeah I've bought tons of stuff oh loads of stuff yeah that is very true as well but you know what a
good occupation for getting rid of stuff and starting again would be a detective garbage disposal oh yeah I mean that's good too I mean by the way you said getting rid of stuff I just said use the literal you were being literal and I was being a little lateral you uh you shouldn't do that okay my bad I won be quite so lateral in my life hard habit to break it 50 but I'll give it a crack
50 yeah what do you think you were wishing me a happy birthday for 41 no no no no I obviously okay I don't know and I don't I'm nice I don't ask is this my Don cheel moment am I getting completely Kevin harded right now Don I don't get the reference but you don't look 50 years old thank you appreciate that I thought you were being like damn A W 50 you said you had two voice I was like two that's the perfect
opportunity for you do that that's when you could have hit me with a a no I would oh two BO a I'm just I just am really into the idea of uh detective work being a thing that that people would actively want to do because the kind of thing that you know you see on television you know it exists people are detect yeah do are you the kind of personality that is well suited to detective work no
I'm I'm scared of first of all you have to be part of the police that's that's the first issue we're running into second of all uh you have to be able to look at gory stuff I can't do it can't do it three um I I this is so Niche but like I imagine when you go to crime scenes you have to smell the body and smell all five senses all five senses touch too I wouldn't touch anything but yeah smell you would be a DET i' be
crap so yeah let's be let's be WR honestly it's just more more about the looking at the crime sheets and like the figuring out the who done it moment the who done it thing you've got cludo for that you don't need to be a detective you play a board game I never already got night games night yeah games night fine okay you got me you got a lot of time for games night right now um I'd
imagine no I do I absolutely do I I do many games nights you do even whilst you're running a very successful music career traveling and if you aren't doing games nights then your career is not successful enough oh wait wait wait hang on if you're not doing games night oh I see so the success affords you the space to be able to say I'm playing games yes the album is so great heaven knows it's
a beautiful title it's it's an amazing body of work I mean I I started by talking a bit about bury me um I love the um the one the aisle four on the floor I love that song oh yeah yeah yeah the four on the floor but it starts and and it continues with a very strong opening statement which is to me internally or otherwise which is that um you know you've been through some some
stuff and you've found you found the you've gone inside and pulled it into the album I mean the way I described it earlier today I was talking my friends about you I was like when you first came out it was like so I want to say thank you because you brought the Outside Inside mhm like we were all inside we were all inside and you were just out there I was outside it felt like it it sounded like it yeah you're
not outside anymore no I'm out no I'm not outside I'm inside inside yes deep deep inside deep writing deep writing deep writing you I mean you've gone some real places on this record um so I guess I want to just start there like where did the when did you realize that this album was was going to deal with some of these pretty sort of intense human topics it's I genuinely when it comes to
subject matter I don't know where honestly it's like I'm just bleeding onto the paper and I write you know what I'm saying but it's not necessarily from any I say and this has been from the beginning of my music it's like it's not really coming from any it's weird cuz I make it sound like I'm constantly chasing love and affection from someone which isn't true to my conscious belief but then somewhere my subconscious
belief it must be true cuz I keep talking about it so it makes it honestly I'm not too sure but that there are issues in the album such as there's a song about me dying which one's that um it's one called ailia where it's like where someone's actually killing me they're they're they're drowning me in a bathtub that's actually what it's about and there's another one about I think
that would almost have to be just pausing on that particularly traumatic subject for a second I'd imagine that would have to be one of the worst ways to go not just because of the fact that someone is murdering you but you can sort of see them you can see them through the water yeah you can yeah you know who it is you know yeah you know who it is you know who's killing you know who it
isal um that is definitely one of the worst ways to go I did think about that too yeah and that and what was going on just what was going on on your day that day can you remember yeah you I was with Danielle Hall so he's the person that produced it originally and I can't really remember what it was that I was he okay this is I think I realized so he's really um he's into law he's into
like Fantastical things he's very medieval like if you hang out with him he says stuff like my Lord and like my lead like that's his type of humor he goes your highness and stuff like that he also has like loads of like tarot cards in his studio and this guy and like books about medieval mythology stuff like that like he's very into that kind of stuff and master me you good sir that's literally how he would say that
to you he might yeah and um the song is called ailia because it's about ailia from the book my God remind me is it McBeth or Hamlet there's one Shakespeare with a with with a character ailure in it and she drowns herself because of something or other that happens in the book can't remember anything about it's I know it's Shakespeare and there's a character called ailia and I remember thinking
maybe it was the whole being in his room in the medieval vibe that he was really pushing on onto me as a person and just in all um in all his room like the essence of his room is just completely pushing that onto you whenever you walk in there or I don't know what it it was something that made me think of that play which I studied in school and then made me write about this character ailia who drowned
but instead of drowning myself because I felt that was too heavy I wouldn't I don't you know you don't want to do that or you'd have people like me are you okay for 10 years like that and I am fine and um so I was like okay in said I'm going to actually have it as someone killing me in a bathtub yeah I love it yeah that was a long segue but yeah time okay I love it and and the
reason I love it is cuz where else by Art Could you actually explore that sensation and that story and turn it into a banger yeah your accent is really is it's I've never heard it be this thick before art yeah yeah good day good day mate which part of Australia Oakland oh but it's cool is it no okay I'm sorry that's all right it's not actually a problem no but it is and and like when I was like 15 and playing
sports okay you know like I'm like don't know if you know this but I'm 50 and that's where you go a me I keep feeding them uh I'm from walk have you been yes would you like it I you know what I did actually and what did I pick up on that I thought was surprising the food good yeah it's great fresh good coffee coffee yeah the coffee was good I didn't have any coffee I had bubble tea I didn't have coffee do you
not do caffeine I do I do caffeine I do thank you my My Le my Lord I do I think you'll find I do inhabit a good strong hot cup of coffee you're reminding me a lot of Danielle Hall especially with his glasses on cuz he wear glasses he do um but no I did like hookland just a long plain do you find yourself going a lot well it's much easier from here you going from London is like oh yeah going
to Mars it's probably quicker going to M it's crazy it's a long way to go I used to do that trip all the time when I lived in London for years and yeah it's no there's no easy way around it there's no easy way do you like to travel I don't like to travel because I don't like planes and that's usually the only way you can really find yeah so I never used to like to fly either as I've
gotten older I've realized like you just kind there's certain things you just can't worry about anymore cuz you have to make room for new worries that's actually a great bit of advice I'm not going to lie to you all I find I feel like I'm speaking with bit of an Australian TW sorry oh oh Zane a bit of a a bit of a twang I feel like I'm speaking in a bit of a twang well you clearly like Australian more than New
Zealand no I don't that's not it's not true it's just because I was just with an Australian so now I'm just like associating you I'm sorry New Zealand twang but you I can identify the New Zealand accent more but you don't really sound like you're from New Zealand you sound more Australian to me because New Zealand talk like little thought like this I mean I've got a probably there's
probably a little bit of like transatlantic post Pacific Mark Ronson in ability to be able to work out wow the International School hey what's up this is last night I was hanging out like Boby like my God this is a big night anyway I'm R okay that was a great impression pretty good um have you worked with him well for the Barbie soundtrack that's right yeah how was that it was great but I didn't yeah I wa
I mean yeah I I was it was so interesting speaking to him because he knew deep cuts and I was like how do you unless he just researched it that day no he's he's in he he's all in he's all in yeah he is he's legit I mean Mark is one of my closest friends in the world I couldn't get away with that impression I was thinking I was like oh do I laugh you can laugh it's on the line in fact
he did it back to me I had lunch with him in New York 3 days ago and he back at me so he's fine with it okay great he's deeply deeply connected to music in every way yeah he he must bleed it and eat it but I was going to say about him so when I was younger growing up obviously Mark Ron obviously icon still is you know he's been he's been here so when I was growing up I remember that he had that was it markon the B the
international it was like the International School of Business that's why his accent like that it was though it was like Mar Ron bus something know I remember there was one song called bang bang bang like big CH which is so why do I feel like no one knows that song well because but anyway that was my there's more there are very wellknown Mar R moment and then there was a little more
deep Cuts okay well great but that what song ruled my world when I was um about bang bang Bang Yeah Yeah do you know all his songs cuz you're his best friend uh some of them I yes yes I have to know all of them yes I have to know exactly what I'm talking about when I see him because he tests me oh wow hey you know like check 600 that c again so if you an emo kid growing up um how important a role was music instead
of helping you get through that weird teenage oh it was the most pivotal part well that's kind of it's It's actually then when I realized that music could actually influence your whole identity down to the close down to the hair even down to how you speak and and who you attract in your life cuz that's how you meet people they're like oh I dress like that exactly exactly so
obviously I was friends I was the emo I was friends with all the Emos at my school and um yeah that was really my life like and music ruled my life to the point when then when when then when they started listening to other music I then joined them and started listen listening to the other bits of Music they were so we all made this transition together from emo to this genre to this genre to
we all made it together and when did temp show up when did it start to become something that was kind of dance orientated you know what I mean I made that bit of the journey by myself right so that's interesting to me because the first time I heard your music and I realized it it come from a bedroom not because you're a bedroom artist that term is kind of but because we were all in our in our bedrooms we were in
quarantines it's like it couldn't be made anywhere else home right so I knew that you were doing it yourself I knew that it was coming from somewhere really personal it reminded me a little bit of original pirate material in that sense that I knew that no one knew who Mike was until Mike was ready and Mike made it I was just reading a Wikipedia article about that album such a good
album incredible but um yeah exactly so no one yeah and and so when I found dance music I was about don't know 17 and honestly the reason I I always mention kardas because that was my segue that was like my Gateway into music even though he is Canadian and not British that was the when I found his collaboration with Luna George that was kind of when I was like okay let me go down this path that's
where I discovered Sam Smith with disclosure and then you find all these tracks at the at the time Georgia Smith on my mind was like had that big moment then I was like okay that's an amazing song what else can we find then you find sunship then you find shy effect and then you find that whole group and you're like okay now this is garage and now we found ourselves at
Mike skner with the streets and so it's like a literal like it's like a Iceberg God and then it goes even deeper than than obviously the streets cuz they're huge in the UK and and worldwide too so uh yeah so and that's pretty much where I found myself can you not love of music when you put it like the way you put it like you just made it sound like the greatest six months of you you could
ever spend well for a teenager it was and you and I felt so cool and I felt so exclusive at the time because I remember thinking I know no one else knows what this is but they they did but I remember thinking I feel so exclusive I feel like no one else knows who karder is mind you krinard had the boiler room and obviously was blown had blown up at the time was still blowing up but it's how makes you feel and if you feel
it belongs to me isn't that how you then translate into something that actually is yours exactly and that's what I did and that's how I want to make people feel too so that that I took that and I was like okay I like what they've done here I like how they make me feel I'm going to make people feel like that too when was the first time you realized You' succeeded see being that success is
important to you okay when it's just so funny speaking about in jenzy terms but honestly when my first Tik Tok blew up with cuz all I wanted all I do use Tik Tok for and wanted to use it for was for music I was never about vlogging or this is what I ate today it was all about like this is for strictly music so when I first posted my first snippet and that um it didn't even get it didn't go viral I
this is the thing I hate the viral but when I had the first few hundred comments being like Oh my God this is amazing yeah I was like okay Su success the relationship is real the relationship is real and I my ears are I can trust my ears cuz I thought this was good when I made it or I thought it was good enough and then people were confirming it for me so I was like okay good this is great I think taste is one
is probably the most important thing out of all of it yeah and I'm like you know you put all the hours you want in all the days all the years hang around do all the studying whatever if you don't have that instinct for Taste yes and I'm learning this as we go along like taste for me at the beginning I just kind of thought we had to like every like when it came to music we were told what to
like and then there's I went on I was like no like there's a reason people called taste makers and stuff like that or why people call it a taste maker festival or a taste maker playlist it's because taste is so important crucial crucial even when picking features it's so crucial yeah and you've been really selective on this record with that and I love it and they all of them feel
meaningful like you and Central C it feels like the the connection and chemistry I mean he's such a super star and he must be so on demand so I'd imagine he's saying yes cuz there's a friendship there and there's a there's a relationship where it's like it makes sense to both of you m exactly yeah that track is sick the samping of spal ballet do you even know that original though what you mean I'm glad I
don't know no that song is big in the UK that's like that's like a very big song like I don't know how what's the equivalent of you guys like what is a big song over here in Australia well um K I don't know I no I got to kind back course you're New Zealand so wait so what is Don't Dream It's Over see I don't know that one but in my opinion do I think that do you guys know spandel balet gold
it's like I like you just are very I feel like you just know your he does but he knows it's my karaoke Chun it gold oh yeah okay good well I just feel like a lot of people because when it comes to sampling I try and use the more obscure ones not back in back at home everyone knows the song but over here I try and make sure people on the radio in America are not going to know where the SES from do you know that
Tears for Fears song shout I love Tears for Fears same yeah I saw them live this year where at the Hollywood ball oh really the best show they performed at the canary cricket ground where actually I worked no way you worked at the can cricket not the I fing love the can CRI hold on Canterbury is in New Zealand right there's a Canterbury in New Zealand okay not that one you cloring it back yeah
I'm trying to save save it no I know about the canbury Cricket Club cuz I'm a cricket fan for back in the day so like what how do you get a job at the kigre sorry everybody I know you want a serious deep conversation about the album we're way off the Mark now what did you love so much about Cricket the me you want work it or was it just money the money yeah of the cuz I was
not anything involved I was just the waitress right right right I P beers I didn't know that you had to tilt the the cup to yeah it was really number one in the beer be a pouring book but they didn't give me that book so you were just frothy you just pouring a froy pint froy pint such a horrible pair of words yeah frothy pint it's not good what are the words don't you like um see I think that's I think that's a
deflection I think you like me a lot I think you like me a lot I think you think I'm a good h I think you think I'm a good H I think you think I'm a good you can't distract me with that you can't you can't anyway back to the the conversation here bad words cataract C cataract yeah sure yeah it's not nice it's not nice right nice pudding no I like that it makes me feel soft oh yeah when you say pudding it it
reminds you of like sponge like sponge cake yeah yeah yeah you do you have a sweet tooth oh yeah I do after after every meal you need a sweet treat I mean I'd go straight to dessert if I could if it was like socially acceptable I would be like hit me with the dessert at the beginning of night do you watch what you eat I do okay but you know because I mean and this goes back to a point you
made before about being 19 and concerned that you'll never look as good feel as good sound as good I never look better really I know I'd love to see a young po of you you are young sorry but a younger like I'm talking 20 I mean I'm not going to buy you with fat Zan low but it's googleable um oh I mean I I mean my 20s and 30s a lot of froy pains okay yeah sure a lot of froy p p so when it comes
to choosing how you moved who you made this music with on this album you've got Phil who does great work with you you've got mura who has obviously become someone that you trust were the people you work with for the first time did you extend your collaborators out this time yeah Benny X love him yes how funny is he by the way he's really funny actually is like his serious sense of humor he's
got a great set of but you know what I would say I feel like I I I at first I don't think I got the humor I thought was being serious about a lot of things I remember I remember thinking okay I don't know if I should laugh right now or the I don't know what the comedic time he's got a straight face he's he keeps a good straight face he does he doesn't really laugh with you yeah so I
didn't know but then I looked on on his socials and I realized good he he's actually he yeah which one did he work on with you um the one with kala yeah bury me I figured and then uh yeah cuz of the boom yeah and then another one not going to tell you which one okay strange detail to hold back but I appreciate it I respect it of everything we've talked about a lot can Cricket
grounds and growing up emo a lot of like deep stuff I feel like I've coed quite a lot of life out of you for someone who doesn't really want to share life I've seen your interviews you don't like interviews I'm doing my best to make this the most enjoyable unlikable interview you've ever done no no no no no honestly for me it's not about if I like or dis like I love an interview where the person who's interviewing me
knows who I am and thinks about me because I can always sniff when people don't how am I doing you're doing excellent but I knew it before I even came on here that it was going to be good but some people I can sniff it off on you if you if you just know me as the ones that are like hey we got pink pantheris in the studio wow congratulations on all the success and your music is doing really great and how
do you find having an audience and they just put words out there they're like what I can always tell so this is obviously yeah I'm having a great time I was actually going to Google you when you're younger am I able to do that or you want me to wait till afterward maybe after oh that was a good one that was outstanding that was the best one yet smash that smash the out I mean if
nothing else you're going to come away with like the Mastery of Oz yeah I know so let's talk about those friends that are truly honest with you do they know you when you were an emo kid yeah uh oh honest with me no I think they met me just after that right yeah has it are you you a trusting person do you make friends easy not anymore what changed well you can I'm sure you can guess well
it's it's a conversation it is it's not a guessing G it's not games night okay okay um well obviously you know when you do I'm sure you know once you find you know success in a certain field especially because in my group of friends everyone you know and most people I meet are people that are perspective is that the right word people that want to be musicians or want to be in the music industry I'm always I
always love to help people that's one thing I always like if I if there's a job need that needs doing I'll go to a friend rather than somebody that's 14 yeah give that 10% to the people that I with is the line 10% great and um so but there are people that do come in at a weird angle and then before you know it instead of being just your friend they also they request things from you that I'm you know and
I've had that a lot and with those people it's very hard for me to navigate how I want to proceed and but it's weird cuz it same thing with the interviews how I can always smell if somebody doesn't it's I I can always smell it on people what their intentions are and and that's when it becomes little sad that's a huge skill to have in life just generally it is um where do you think you got that
from do you I mean what was you not to get too personal and tell us what you feel like or not but I mean in terms of from growing up and your relationship with your folks were they trusting did they give you space to grow to find your identity was it a little more sort of conservative tough to sort of get away and find your own voice I'd say it was I don't it's weird cuz my memory is so bad
I almost can't remember remember has it always been like that my memory yeah no you know what is is my memory is good about things I care about not saying I don't care about my child but I'm saying like you don't really think about your childhood as being something that you'll later need to describe or talk about so for me my memories was like it was my dad specifically I knew that he wanted I
think both of them just put emphasis on working and making your own money yes because I feel like there every parent I mean that's something that I don't know be independently minded and be able to function yeah exactly um have jobs I think my I think with them it wasn't necessarily like I never even actually I never mentioned wanting to do music to anyone you just kept it to yourself the
whole way through yeah I didn't talk about it with anyone actually what a joy to be able to do that and not have people expecting like it's been sex months where's the where's the proof of purchase you know what I mean and that's I see it a lot where I see where people have told me something about what they want to be and then I feel like and it sounds bad but I feel like everyone's
guilty of this where you kind of look back at the same person person that told me told you what they wanted to and you're kind of like yeah it's tough where are CU you set your intentions up front and you it's but you need to sometimes keep them here make it happen somehow figure it out manifest I mean I mentioned that in manifest but um I'm a fan of that though yeah yeah yeah you have to be yeah manifest it but don't I
don't know don't reveal all your cards that early you know that's what I didn't want to do in fact I didn't want to rill them so much that I almost the cards were almost not even in the on the poker poker room in in the in the gambling room almost not even in the game no just observing it just obser yeah exactly I could do it better yeah yeah but I may not even try so glad you did um what
when you think back to the songs you put out now because this is a different body of work and like I said it feels different like even playing capable of Love on the show today I mean I love that song and I love to me that's a perfect example of I'm sorry if I get a little lost but I I have no questions just I just listen to music feel it and then start but when I hear that song I feel
like it's the perfect combination of the dance floor of the temple I talk about but it's real emotional yeah like I think one of the most emotional things you've done yeah yeah vocally without saying we vocally yeah without saying sure so can we talk a little bit about the making that song I know you don't mind dissecting I will dissect that's not a nice word either dissects not good no I don't like that I
don't like that either yeah can dissect the song you can think of a different word um I can chop up the no cut up I can explain the song thank you okay okay yeah so where were you when you wrote that um God that song was made in 2021 with a producer called risk um and um we were just in his studio and yeah I wasn't sure what was going to come out of the session at all by the way but I remember at that point
whenever I'd go into a session I don't know what it was I didn't enjoy sessions back then I really it's tough hi nice to meet you should we make a song that's going to live forever and it felt forced it felt forced every session felt forced remember thinking God not another like I remember but they were obviously the label were obviously trying to like also this was where I just signed you know I
wasn't really sure what was going on I was like yeah you know I remember thinking oh I'm too I I obviously was arrogant I was oh I've done everything by myself like I'm too I was genuinely thought no one's going to be able to make a song for me yeah yeah and that's how I felt every session funny enough though every session I'd make a song but in this session I thinking like okay I'm
just going to make this song really quickly and I'm going to go out and meet my friends to get food like that that's how I was like clocking clock out situation so I didn't think too much of the Melody I wrote or anything I just kind of thought okay this is hopefully he likes this hopefully you know and I didn't really think about that song Too Much at first and then I remember it got
leaked or I don't know it leaked somewhere I remember people how does anything leak in people leak it themselves saying but it's just like really what's the like what is the point that now it's not 2008 see for me me I don't know I think it's nice for for real fans to have like a feeling of oh I got this i got this you know like I'm really and some especially my fans cuz they are so they're such fiends for
the actual music itself really nice way of putting it though they're fiends for the music itself like that's the first time I've actually looked at it from that perspective which is crazy after two decades of leaking records but the thought that actually somebody having it and feeling like they've got it even before you even intended being kind of a romantic it's just kind of bit of a
friendship gift I won't say romantic a I don't want to I'm platonic with with my fans oh there's many like definitions for romantic though like that's my definition is is keep it platonic platonic one or the other yeah so let's think of another word to is a is a is a thoughtful thoughtful it's a thoughtful gesture yes so that's how I viewed it and I thought to myself also it's again it's just to kind
of put it out and see what people think about it I would not have probably put that song out had people not come up to me like God that is my favorite song of yours I was like you know what that song could you know and the leak is different to the one I put out the leak is way less guitari the leak is almost like almost like the production is so was so like light I remember I remember
thinking okay we need to amp this up cuz one thing that I also think is super important for me was anyway is I needed to progress production wise I was so cuz you're a producer for sure for sure I'm a producer and also cuz people just get people start demanding that from you and you get bigger they're like well you have no excuse to like that we bump yeah we like that more of that and you're
like nah yeah and I'm like nah guitars guitars why not yeah it's cool and I you know and that's one of the things I love about the album is that there's lots of different feels and moods and Vibes and I can tell that you know you've gone through that process of of sort of pushing yourself soundwise and where you can take it I'd imagine that for you that's probably one of the most important steps you've taken because you
could just continue to sort of exist in that sound you but unfortunately and that's what and that's what I think that's what people were expecting and and I was like no like other people are now filling that Gap other people are doing that now and I'm getting bored of it I was getting bored of it back in 2021 yeah I was like I think I'm going to move on and I also think like I want to I don't know I think my also my
concern is I want to Now find another genre which I can like make put I mean I don't know how to put it I want to like take over something else not just that side I want to find because we're getting to know different sides of you and what inspires you and what really motivates you creatively I think in the beginning one of the things everyone was so drawn to was that you made it sound
so easy yeah it was like feet B I'm going to crush this lyrically and melodically like it's nothing like I'm just going to don't have that like how did she make that sound so easy so it's cool hearing you struggle and I mean that as a compliment yeah no in a good way struggle is important radio head struggle every album yeah that's what I mean they push themselves you push yourself you can't tell me that like
doing a song like ailia or capable of Love is Easy mhm or is it still really you said was making those songs easy yeah no those songs weren't easy at all songs were very hard to make I mean all of them were yeah I did struggle the whole bloody time I was struggling the whole time but I feel like I was yeah I it's weird the I know what you're saying I'm trying to remember no I know
what you're saying Zan yes what you've just said I've now had to deconstruct in my mind and go wait yeah it was super easy to write those songs and now it is getting harder to write these songs because I guess the beat I guess have using beats like garage and drama BAS they kind of write themselves freestyle Vibes so having to like really chop up and like create different moments and
and make a bridge for example and yes it is hard yes exactly you might have eight just now thank you exact when you hear this song right here it's like you can't just go in and um sorry Tak serious moment like that like that's a serious Moment Like BC has shown up he's he's giving you his his he's giv you his signature Des sending Baseline thing yes which I love yes I texted him the other day
about that I was like hey man that that what you do with that so sick and he just sent this voice note back to me just going I love him so simple so cool so simp yeah cool cool cat yeah he's a cool cat so the album is done congratulations super happy for you happier for us cuz we now get another body of work oh yeah yeah yeah for sure and it feels it it feels legit I don't know you could have
gone and become a detective I might still no we've established you're not a very good detective you don't like blood you don't like touching things smelling things showing up on you don't want to show up to the crime scene you're right cludo that's the name of the game okay thanks um you grounded me just then you just grounded me thank you for bringing me back to reality yeah I am 50 comes out of
yeah what is uh what you what are you most excited about next year I think I'm excited about um oh I really enjoy oh let me think about this God I'm actually really excited to see which song people are drawn to the most um not saying that's something that's specifically for next year I'm also excited to go on tour even though I no I'm lying I'm not but like I'm excited to visit I think I'm visiting New
Zealand next year too you know if I have anything to do with it the border is going to done yeah um I don't know I I am excited for you I'm excited to uh I want to write more for people I want to do more writing sessions yes and I'd imagine there people are calling you to do that and um you bet you've been busy doing this you had to say no a few times when you want to say Yes No actually that's a
thing people do I've been called don't get me wrong but not as many people as you think and just because I think people when it comes to I think people are concerned that I'll write in a way that's too much like me because I've got such a specific Melody I think probably a bit like oh I don't want her to make a song that sounds like her yeah I've had that before this album will change that
I hope so of course it will of course of course M just don't go to any movies ever again explain the joke well last time you went to a movie oh shut up no I'm so sick of this no I'm no talk about it I just thought it was funny it was pretty funny by the way it's a great LOL to have an interview cuz everyone's going to be preoccupied like see what happens when you go to the
movies you miss a Krick Mage and it's like you could have just done it hour later or 3 hours later it's not like it's a one time only thing no but I'm listen it's a good LOL it's a good LOL it's a good LOL U what's been your favorite non ping pantheres creative experience though it hasn't just been about you so me includ it me making being involed yeah exactly or oh let me
think other people that's not me but I've been part of the creative process yes OMG how selfish am I to not be able to think of any that's right we'll come back we're nearly at the end um how do you feel about boy a liar it's a good song it's actually a great song Sorry I love it no you're fantastic almost didn't know what to say but I great song great song yeah life changer yeah kind of no well yeah it is
for sure I mean you know residuals residual got to be solid got to be Merry Christmas Merry Christmas next 50 years yeah no yeah great song really great song great asset great asset St I don't think about it in those terms all the time great investment property yeah uh great listen we great mortgage yeah well here's here's to today here's today we may never speak again I hope we do the
hell I mean who knows with you you may decide like I'm going to go off and do something completely different I'm going to be a horticulturalist horticulturalist no I think I'm going to be here that's what I'm trying to get out I'm glad to hear it congratulations on this album um I hope you've enjoyed this little roller coaster ride through many different topics yeah it's been fun I almost want it to end almost but it has