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Pink Panther.
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Are you in this for life? Well, like a musician. Yeah. Uh, no. Not for life.
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I mean, that was the hook that was like all leading up to this moment.
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You were like, "Man, by the time I've made 10 albums and I was going to hit you with, are you in this life?"
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And you would go, "You know what I am?"
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And you were like, "No, come on, mate.
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Crisps in hand, bangers on the box, popcorn. Fair enough. Never guarantee.
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I mean, look, I've felt the few times we've hung out and gotten to know each other.
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You just do your thing and like I don't feel like there's ever any guarantee you're going to put anything out or not put anything out.
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It's like you just move with the wind and I love that.
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And so we have this and I'm stoked about it.
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Oh, that's really nice of you. Thank you. Welcome back to LA. Thank you. Oh, that's fine. That's fine.
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No, I love No, I mean we're we have no uh formalities in the studio either way. Okay. Thank you.
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You're more than welcome. So glad you're here.
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Welcome back to Los Angeles. Do you like it here? Did you miss it?
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Did you like it the first time?
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Do you like it more the second time?
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Well, actually, I'll have you know I actually live here. Get out of here. When did you move here?
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I I've kind of been living here two years, I'd say.
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But I feel bad for not knowing that.
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That would be weird if I did. Well, no. I guess you're right. It would be a bit weird.
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But no, I live between here and London, so it's just a back and forth. But I do like it here. It's not It's not bad. Yeah.
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What do you miss about London when you're here and vice versa?
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For me, honestly, I will say the one thing is people just being able to get certain references and humor. Yeah. Yeah. The humor thing. The humor thing.
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I will say I've noticed people are a bit sensitive here, but not I'm I'm not like one of those like I don't I don't have I don't have edgy humor. I'm not saying that.
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I'm very I'm very I'm very woke. No, I get that.
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But my point is people here, you know, they don't want to be told certain things. It's true.
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There's a certain mentality in the way that you deliver something for humor value or perhaps even just to emphasize point with a little bit of humor which can sometimes fall flat. It can.
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And I'm not trying to insult my American friends because there's many qualities in the way you communicate that other countries do not get. So true.
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But there's a literal response that I find sometimes a little bit of a wall. Yes.
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When I'm trying to say something.
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If I say go yourself, I'm not expecting you to actually go do it. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right.
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It's more of a light-hearted like response to something.
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I think I feel that we're in the zone.
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Do you love when when you're back at home, do you say all the time silly cat? Yeah.
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Like dude, that word is just that goes all over the map.
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That word can that can be a good thing.
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People cannot take that word here.
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No, you can't call someone a silly. No, no, no.
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Marina's got a brand new song called I saw that.
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That that's too explicit to say on this program, I think.
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But I see that like made me really laugh.
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It made me laugh as I spoke to her about it yesterday.
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I said it once and she thought it was brilliant. Why? Because of your accent? I think so. Okay.
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Cuz we really lean into that syllable.
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Oh, way back back at home. Yeah.
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I mean, you want to say can't. We say can.
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It's probably the most New Zealand sounding word in the in the in the glossery back with new music.
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Should we can we talk a little bit about the decision you made to just regroup because I think it's great and I think we should probably talk a little bit about that.
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You made some decisions that some people made.
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Well, you pulled back from shows and Oh, right. That's what you mean. Yeah.
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Figure you just wanted to figure some stuff out on your own terms.
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Was there any resistance there?
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Even with good intention, did anyone turn around and say, "Hey, but things are rolling.
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You sure you want to do that?" 100%.
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I mean, but not even just because of things are rolling, but more because of financial reasons why you, you know, if you agree to do shows like and you don't follow through, there's a lot of money being missed out on.
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There's also a lot of um I mean there's also the I guess the opportunity for backlash to be I mean that wasn't really the the least of my concerns was the money obviously I'm just somebody generally speaking that is used to not looking after thine self because I pushed through and that's honestly one of the reasons I lost my hearing in this year is because of that.
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So after that happened, I I I don't know what it was.
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You know, I think it was when I started cutting my hair with um razor blades where I realized, you know what?
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I'm actually going to stop now. I'm insane.
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Was it I think it was when I cut my hair off where I was like, you know what?
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I'm going to probably take a step back and chill.
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And I'm not someone that generally has I don't I don't really suffer with any of these.
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I don't really suffer with any kind of uh lapse in judgments when it comes to myself usually, but that that's when I knew I was like I mean like it's crazy like I had an impulse to literally like get uh like follicles of hair off of me.
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So I needed to you know you were full up. I was full up.
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I was like, you know what?
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There was something that I needed to address. And so, I had to leave.
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And I did that for my own good.
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And and obviously, it was a very sad moment for people that wanted to see me but couldn't see me.
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But obviously, what goes around comes around and I'll be back again.
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Congratulations on uh having the self-awareness to to recognize that.
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Isn't it crazy how fast it can happen when you're getting what you want?
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All of a sudden, it's like, wow. Yep. Yep, it does. But that's the thing.
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I mean, you were just telling me out there like performing for you is not as fun as it seems when you're like when you get booked in the first place.
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Like you get booked and you're like, "Oh my god, this is fantastic."
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And then you it's the day of and you're like, "Oh my god, this is like this is like eating away at me slowly." So, I don't know.
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For me, it's like I have the same thing.
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like I have the same thing. like you get booked for an amazing opportunity which no one else really would turn down and you shouldn't turn down and then maybe on the day you realize like this is way way way way too big for you or like you realize that you were never really equipped in the first place and it's
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it's it's a whole no there's a built-in anxiety that comes with anything in life that is a that is a stretch forward and a lot of people tell you that's part of it and that's a big part of why you should accept it but it does chip away at your insides after a while you start to get that sort of sense it becomes more of a trauma reaction and 100%. Yeah. So, stepping back, I really Yeah.
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So, stepping back, I really respect it and um and you're back and no and everybody missed you.
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Nothing really changed and everyone's okay.
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No, I'm so Well, I'm actually didn't mean Let me just put this back up. I'm back.
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Are we I tell you what, how about you be the boss and I'll go down here.
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Well, that's how it usually works, isn't it?
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That's how it usually works. The boss is back.
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Uh no, it did nothing but make us miss you and welcome you back.
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And when the music came back, it was really fresh.
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And and when did you realize that you know you wanted to continue?
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Because um you know when you maybe you always did but when did you feel like you had that energy and you're like okay I'm ready to go again? Okay.
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Like make me Well, for me it was for me it was like around August time where I was like okay let's like get going again because I knew I wanted to put out a project this year.
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So I or actually what's funny and I'm somebody that really also rushes a lot of things.
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So funny enough I was making in August.
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It was finished in November and I was telling my label like let me release it this like last year and they were like why would you release it so soon?
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Like why don't you give yourself a proper roll out and I've really never done a proper roll out before.
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So this is like my first attempt at a roll out.
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So this is going to be interesting. We'll see how it goes.
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But I got started pretty a few months after I let myself a few months.
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What did you do in those few months?
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I don't know what I Oh, what did I do? You know what?
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I think at the time I was seeing someone and I feel like I actually I was doing a bit of traveling.
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I did a bit of traveling. Um, just not just cause. Well, just cause.
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Yeah, I was traveling and I I guess I I'm a homebody, so I I was also just at home.
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I was just kind of revisiting my friends, seeing friends I haven't seen for a long time and yeah, stuff like that. Beautiful.
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Um, when you talk about this being the first roll out of of of a record and it's I think it's been beautiful.
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I mean, we've we've played all the songs.
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It's felt like we've gotten to know the feeling of the project. It's felt really good.
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But did it does it kind of shock you thinking back now on how you landed because there was no roll out, no print, there was no plan like like seriously it it probably really highlights more how crazy the timing and just that moment was. Yeah. What now? Yeah.
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Yeah. What now? Yeah. doing it, taking your time must kind of make you realize that it was just it was kind of so unorthodox the way that so unorthodox but every it was a direct result of the uh the internet it was the it was the climate of the internet because the
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internet it was because the internet exactly good one um it was the climate of the internet at the time and what actually is more so interesting to me than how quick I rose um in those beginning face is more so actually how much the internet has changed and how like it's actually so
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insane now like I'm telling you like can we talk about that your perspective on that it's insane so basically I so I'm somebody that like I'm very I'm very my whole family is very like on my on my dad's side we're all very like analytical all chess players all very strategic and I learned that strategy
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think way of thinking I think from my dad and he's an academic you know what I So for me, I have a very similar brain and so that's why I kind of in the first place was had the incentive to use Tik Tok in the first place to whatever figure get a fan base. So over time I
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So over time I look at ways in which songs from other people.
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I watch other people too not in any you know not to like pocket watch or like but or to critique but more to actually see okay so how are people digesting?
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How are people ingesting this?
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And of course, a lot of people leave this to their labels to do.
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And I could leave it to my label to do, but actually I think it's way more fun.
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I and I find this really fun.
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Like I love looking at this kind of stuff.
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It's so fun to figure out and like again strategize.
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But for me, I take it upon myself to kind of figure these things out before I get someone else to do it.
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So for me, I think what I've noticed is at this very point in time, Tik Tok is now more of a music sharing thing than it was like ever before.
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And what that means is the way that people now expect music to enter their radar is not from them finding it first, but from them finding it with everybody else. That makes any sense. Interesting. It's the new radio. It's the new radio. Exactly.
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So, in simple terms, it means um anybody big or small will can drop a song.
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And like the like four years ago, it would be like, "Oh my god, they dropped a song.
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Everyone like we got to go listen to it."
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But now it's like, "Okay, they dropped a song.
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We don't really care until unless it goes viral. It blows up.
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And that's goes across the board. That's for everyone.
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That's for people smaller than the artist, bigger than the artist.
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It's like we don't give a unless the song blows up. Yeah.
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And it was so different a few years ago.
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Like a few years ago, it was like, okay, we know this artist on this day and we're all going to collectively listen to it and the ones that really like it, we're going to keep streaming.
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The ones that don't, we're not going to stream anymore.
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I think I think they changed the algorithm for that very reason.
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I think it was becoming a tool that people knew how to use and that ultimately makes it less sticky.
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It's much more sticky if you're trying to figure out how to make it work for you than if it already does.
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And so I think that there was an element of changing the algorithm in order to make it to keep the curiosity of like how do we continue to to master this thing. It's unmasterable. It's unmasterable.
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The only way that you can quote unquote like get ahead of it get on top of it is by staying ahead of it.
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So that's kind of what I'm it's really honestly so fun.
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really honestly so fun. And the thing is it's a very depressing thing to hear an artist talk about is like having to think about ways to market themselves and think about but the thing is it's is it though isn't it a lot of people will listen to me say this and think well where is the beauty of the music like
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where's the where's the passion in her voice about music making I have endless passion for music making endless hours but it doesn't stop have to stop there you can create be creative marketing is in its very essence a creative pursuit thousand million% however for some people listening to me, especially me talk about it. I feel like I'm kind of
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I feel like I'm kind of been right and I'm not mad about it.
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I think I'm a lot of people's like scapegoats for conversations. Why?
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What do you think that they're What are they asserting with these statements on you?
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What do they think you're doing?
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It makes all sense in the world.
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I'm not going to sit here and say like I, you know, I'm somebody when it comes to music and how I ingest music and how I make music, I'm very tento down.
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I'm not like I'm like I'm not going to suddenly like change how I make music because someone's telling me to.
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I'm like, I'm going to do it if I want to.
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So, that means that when someone asks me my musical opinion, what do you think of this type of music?
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What do you how do you uh like why your song's so short?
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Why do you like I'm going to tell you the reason why?
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And the thing is people have the choice to either accept that this is just how I do it and enjoy the output.
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Or they can or I can be the scapegoat as to why music these days is failing and a catastrophe.
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And and it's really one way or the other.
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really one way or the other. It's like a very balanced in especially with adults like it's very much teens I feel like are a bit more like you know chill like down but adults who have obviously been here longer and have experienced the music industry for way longer than me us as younger people have understand that
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it's like music didn't used to be like this music used to be more around it music that's old that's over true but I mean some people don't want to necessarily accept that or some people hope that it's not going to become any different from how it was a while ago and I'm one of those people I'm sometimes I'm like damn music music back in the day. But then I'm also like but
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But then I'm also like but music now it's a really flip of the coin thing.
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But all that to say, yeah, is that music these days is very much a people will only give a flying toss if the song is going viral and trending.
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That's how that's like the one and only basically way to get a bonafide.
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You just got to be ready. Let's talk deaf tones.
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Okay, so Deon one of my favorite bands of all time.
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I've been a fan all the way through.
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They've never put a bad way.
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They've never they've never put a bad record out.
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I don't think they've ever done a bad song.
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They're one of the most consistently brilliant bands on this planet.
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If you love that, right, preach, am I right, Steve? You love this band, too.
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They just cannoting lose, right, for me.
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But they were on a steady one.
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They were like, "All right, we got our core fan base. We're on a steady one.
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We might get a few arenas in certain parts of the world.
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It's big theaters and amphitheaters elsewhere." Tik Tok comes along.
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Everyone's like, "Ah, cherry waves. Ah, sex tape. Ah, manurva. Hole in the earth. Be Quiet and Drive. Shove it.
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These songs start to pop.
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People start to discover them.
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Now they're playing sold out arenas all over America about to release what will be their biggest album and they could not be bigger.
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I went to New York MSG the other night and I went to the former seen twice on this tour. Kids everywhere.
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My point is is when that stuff does go, better being ready. Not me or everyone.
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Everyone, you better be ready.
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Facts, facts, facts, facts.
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But that's the thing that that's, you know, that's I feel like you're right.
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I feel like you have to be ready and I think that's where a lot of I think you're there's a difference between somebody blowing up from like going from maybe a lesser known an anonymity so having a big song and then being like someone with a big song and there's a difference between like someone that is an existing musical force using it to further their and redirecting people into what already exists. Exactly.
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And so for me obviously I'm navigating the latter but you were the former not long ago. I was the former. So, it's funny.
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It's like I'm kind of You are a really fascinating example.
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I would I would counter anyone who says that you're that you are represented um what what they would consider to be a negative trend in music and I think you're actually proof that you can use the tools to break and maintain.
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No, but I mean and all that.
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Well, that was such a adorable reaction.
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Let me continue to gas you. Uh yeah. Uh no, I'm I'm serious.
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I mean I was going to ask you a few points back because we both move very fast, you know.
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move very fast, you know. uh that is it possible to continue to break through based on how you do it because you you go in you understand Charlie's the same understands how to position and move the music likes the curiosity what does this
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tool do how do I use it to reach people do you feel like it's possible if you're a kid out there to break through from an anonymity or someone oh is it possible to break through 100% I've seen people break through recently and like two hollers Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Like it's Yeah, for sure. Like it's so possible.
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I've always said I've always always said because obviously you have to imagine like there's a lot of uh younger people than me that I meet that make music who obviously and I'm not the one with all the answers cuz I'm not even I I've to some people I've broken through to some people I haven't.
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And I truly think that I have yet to actually break through as a force.
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I do I do genuinely think I have yet to break through.
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But there's obviously a lot of kids that make music and look at me and they're like, "Okay, you've done this."
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So like like words of wisdom and I and I'll tell them I'll impose my words without them even asking sometimes, but I'll basically tell them like you know what I mean?
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Sometimes I'm like you just basically need and this is so obvious sounding but it's so hard to actually enact is you need your niche, you need an image, you need and that's all the things you need.
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The music can be as amazing.
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I've I've heard artists that have literally the best music I've ever heard.
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Like I'm talking Frank Ocean level like good and like they don't have they but they don't have the fan base and they don't have listeners.
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And I'm like but imagine if you took step towards like branding yourself and like finding thinking outside of the box to like market yourself and like get yourself like that's introduce yourself. Introduce yourself.
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There's real ways that you can like that's the thing you this is why I think it's really hard for people to break through the these days because you need something in the UK we call it techers.
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You need the techers and the techers is it's a form of hustle.
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You need this hustle mentality of, okay, I know this song's really good.
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Now, I need to basically figure out how I'm going to make a not even a trend.
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How I'm going to market myself, find an audience. Find an audience.
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And that's and it sucks because as musicians, you know, they'll always tell me back like, "But I just want to make it about the music." Yeah.
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But let's just pause there for a second because I came from a generation where it was all about the music and the label would do all the rest of it.
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Some people in the room have been through that, too.
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Guess what happens when they don't Oh, they drop you. They drop you.
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So what happens is they bring you in and they go, "Oh, we think you're amazing.
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Our instinct tells us you're incredible.
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Now we're going to do the diligence and spend a certain amount of money going and find your audience and if they don't do a good enough job, they don't do a good enough job.
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They put it back and they say, "Didn't work out for you." Exactly.
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And so then you're back to doing a day job.
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At least this way you can stick it out if you can survive as long as it takes. Exactly.
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takes. Exactly. and you're on your own time and you're on on your own dime and you're not like and that's kind of this even though I'm signed to a label and they give me an amazing amount of support and endless resources and I'm so thankful for everybody that works there I still take it upon myself to do my own
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research to do my own bits of like like I'll still speak to people of course at the label and like we'll discuss go back and forth but for me I really do try and make it and that's and that's when you mentioned Charlie like that's pretty much what she did too and obviously like no one it's when you have taste as an artist you can't fail. That's what I've
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That's what I've always said.
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I think a lot of I when you when you have taste.
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By the way, the bar is really high for for for Panther here.
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I mean, I I I've dropped it I dropped the bomb pretty liberally, but you set the bar so high after the last conversation.
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I was waiting for the real nugget.
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You gave me the real nugget of wisdom.
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Real the real chicken nugget right there. Thank you.
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If you have taste, you can't fail.
19:00
God, I'm so happy to see you.
19:02
I felt like I felt like, you know, you really just weren't interested in talking with us on this show for a long time at the beginning. What was that about? Really?
19:09
Yeah, we asked so many times and you kept saying no.
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Because I didn't do interviews cuz I was like basically I did a few. Really? I was watching.
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Well, I think they were more UK based. Yeah, they were. But it's okay.
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For me, it was like I was actually quite anonymous back then.
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If you remember correctly, I was really shy and for the reasons I told you because when I have an opinion on specifically music, I'm 10 toes down and I don't want to say something that people are going to be ruffled by.
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You don't care so much anymore because this is who you are. I do. I don't care. I do care. I I don't do care. Don't care. Do care. Don't care.
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I don't like when people take my words out of context to fit an agenda because that's not the case.
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Like I'm very like when people try and like question my intelligence or my skills or like my interest in music, I get very very very upset.
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get very very very upset. should ever do that because how are you going to like people actually telling me in comment sections that I don't care about music is crazy because I would never say that back to them like if some if we were physically in person and somebody said to me you don't care about music I would I wouldn't even have the balls to say it
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back because that's how little that's how little I think that that like that's such an insane thing to say our instinct is going to be to find some to offload right it's it's interesting like if you go to the comments you spend any time in the comments which is a hitand- miss experience you'll see the kind of the kind of nature of people who are looking for some positive positivity to share. Yes,
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Yes, it can be constructive, but it's just still like trying to land something that that adds value versus the ones that just fire off these misses. Like it's not true. I do agree.
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I do I do I agree with you.
20:42
There's definitely and I notice that same difference and I know people in real life that are haters and so I aware but it's funny because the haters you got to know them.
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You got to know a few haters but the haters I know obviously aren't people that would comment this hate.
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It's more like between ourselves.
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between ourselves. I think a lot of people genuinely want to start there's a I think it's more of a discourse where people genuinely actually like it's not even because they are haters but they genuinely genuinely in their hearts don't want to see music go a certain way and so they definitely want to share with other people and say listen we
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can't let music go this far we can't let people like her with the platform say stuff like this as if I'm no and that gets that getsing deep by the way cuz that comes from fear and by the way some of that is like awful some of that is homophobia some of that is racism Like there is really high level human toxicity that can form those opinions. They just come in little microscopic
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They just come in little microscopic sort of form of like this this song sucks.
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It's like what are you really saying, right? Oh yeah.
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That's that's when you can go down a bit of a rabbit hole in it. Yeah. It's always nuance.
21:44
Your dad is a is a your family of intellects. Family of intellects. My dad's side for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
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So, growing up in that household and trying to find a way to uh feed your passion for art and for music and for creativity, but also being playing chess every night with your dad and realizing that, you know, he he obviously holds his ability to be able to work in the cerebral arts at a very high level.
22:06
What was that balance like as a kid?
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Well, for me it was actually funny.
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I mean, I'd say, funnily enough, my family, because we're all very different people, just generally like in my nuclear family of four, very different. How many siblings?
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Well, I actually have two half brothers, but I have one full brother.
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So, I lived with my full brother and um my mom and my dad.
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We're all so different because I'm very different to my brother and then my dad is very different to my mom and then I'm very different to my dad and then so there was not much I we wouldn't hang out.
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So, for me it was like I found my own activities and I would be producing.
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My brother and me do have a shared interest in production and he's a sound engineer.
22:43
So obviously there is that and also he's a great he's just a great flipping guy, but um I wouldn't say that we necessarily did it together, but I did borrow his equipment and I would do this kind of thing myself.
22:54
And honestly I I did have a hand at chess.
22:56
I'd say maybe I was better than the average person maybe based off of genetics.
23:01
Hey cuz we really are not Queen's Gambit but you can't but you but you don't around.
23:07
I'm not Queen's Gambit though. But let me think.
23:09
My dad, I'd say his input with the academia was very strong while I was going into secondary school because there's a test you have to take to see if you'll get into a grammar school.
23:20
Do you know what a grammar school is? Y. Okay.
23:22
Once I got into the grammar school and it was A levels and GCSEs, I think he was like took his foot off the gas a little bit. I don't know.
23:27
I think he kind of was like, "Okay, you and I didn't do badly at school to be fair. I did kind of just mid." But um I don't know.
23:34
I all my creative pursuits I was very secretive about to with my family, my home.
23:39
Just kept it lowkey low-key because my biggest my I'm somebody that I love I this is such a weird thing to say but I love when people have secrets.
23:47
I love when people feel like they have to keep something to themselves.
23:49
I love when people have that integrity to want to keep an activity secret.
23:53
Like for example, like I mean I'm just trying to think in the context of like let's say you're married and your like wife has like thing is it sounds it can then go into dangerous territory because well she could be cheating but let's say your wife goes downstairs every night and then when she gets to bed she has like a lot of feathers on her and glue and like and in your mind it's a different part of her life. Yeah.
24:17
In your mind you're like doing arts and crafts down there.
24:19
I'm not going to ask you know unless she wants to tell me I'm not going to ask.
24:21
I love that you can have this sanctity Yes. of your own experience.
24:24
So that's what I kind of did.
24:26
I just had my own little thing and I wouldn't tell anybody.
24:32
I I think that's really cool.
24:32
I think I think the idea of you being able to take give yourself the space to do it without the desire to share it with other people for validation as well, which is a really that's a really rare situation.
24:41
Most people start making music and the first thing we're programmed to do is immediately sort of go just open the damn popcorn.
24:45
Uh the first we're so past that validation and stuff.
24:52
Most people go the first thing we do is we're programmed to go search for other people to tell us it's good.
24:54
So how did you know it was good? Tik Tok. Ah my validation.
24:58
That was your validation. Yeah.
25:00
I wanted my validation to be very unbiased and very because no one will be more honest with you than people on the internet listening to music that you put out.
25:08
You really go into the detail on this.
25:09
Not just like we put a song on and see where it goes.
25:13
Like you're all about the the layers and layers and layers of decisions.
25:14
Girl, the thing is right listen.
25:16
It's like we can all sit here and really and this is what I want people to be really about with themselves when they put out music.
25:23
It's like we can literally go in like I could have gone into this album project mixback even mixtape mixtape and and not done a proper roll out said to my label you know what we're going to do what we always do and just kind of put it out put it out see what the internet thinks and go.
25:37
But that is not the age of today.
25:39
And the thing is my I have I always look at myself and I think of myself in two sectors of thought sometimes.
25:44
I'm like half of me really wants to be a very recognized and one day an iconic.
25:50
Hence the part of you that feels you haven't broken through.
25:54
Hence that but then also and and hence the reason why I'm so going so heavy I want to go so heavy on this mixtape and and actually do the things and do the do and but part of me is also like but damn like being like an unsung hero kind of seems cool too but then I'm like but longer road longer road.
26:09
What do you mean long is it a longer road though?
26:11
I think so because ultimately if you go unsung for a longer period of time people start singing your songs but they sing all of them.
26:18
So it could take 10 years or 20 years but eventually people will catch up to why you're great if you stick at it and then you just get the same reward that people may get with two or three songs in the first few years but it's just way more rewarding if you've got the if you got the tickers.
26:33
That's but that's kind of that's like where we cross over here because I want to be because right I do think I'm unsung hero and I do also want to be bigger.
26:42
So there is a do you know what I mean?
26:45
I don't want to be big enough where it's like that's called a conundrum.
26:47
It's called it is a conundrum.
26:48
I there's this level that I want to be which I'm basically not and and and and that's not saying I want to be global superstar.
26:56
I don't want to be that big.
26:58
It's like a perfect right. Okay.
27:00
So let's imagine there's a tier list. Okay. I'm about here, middle.
27:01
And I want to be here, not here. This we can leave. Here is Taylor.
27:09
Oh, I've got Yeah, but I'm sure. Yeah.
27:12
And the thing is, right, and here is where you want to be.
27:16
And she also unsung hero cuz everybody she her fan base are so amazing.
27:19
She'll always be the unsung hero. That's a very rare case. Very rare. She she does both. You're right. Very rare.
27:24
This space here is I don't want to occupy because I don't see myself needing to go to like a lot of these awards.
27:30
I don't want to be kind of everywhere like that.
27:32
I just want to have a very nice fan base who are dedicated. So like Bonnie V. Sure. Bonnie V. That's Bonnie. I wouldn't mind. Yeah.
27:43
Like something like where you just have a very dedicated fan base and everyone knows your fan fan base is super into arenas, slide back home, figure it out.
27:51
Something really cute and then you just have like an amazing fan base.
27:52
When you go to a festival, you've got all your all your fans are there.
27:56
But I'm not fussed about having absolutely everybody know.
27:59
be able to go in and like do a couple of nights at a good really decent sized place and just know it's there. Yeah.
28:05
I want to be like Brick Academy like you're doing. Yes. Yes, you're right.
28:10
And I'm very Listen, this is not to say that I'm unsatisfied.
28:12
I'm so satisfied with where I am. You have no idea.
28:15
Just trying to remind you.
28:15
No, you're completely right. I'm so satisfied. And you're right.
28:18
Being able to see that is is a force within itself.
28:22
What I'm saying is I'm not really talking about in terms of I'm not talking about in terms of capacity.
28:26
I'm talking about in terms of like people can I want to have a list of things that I can say I've done which is like iconic enough to like or I I want to okay this is what it is.
28:39
I want to make culture moves that put me here and I don't think I've made enough culture moves yet.
28:43
I feel like I've made a good view.
28:45
I don't think I've made enough culture moves yet.
28:47
I'm not talking about numbers like oh I actually want a million.
28:48
I actually want 10 million more monthly listeners. I don't care about that.
28:51
I care I don't care about charting.
28:53
I want it to be more of a like culture move.
28:55
Here's my stable of achievements that have moved the needle enough in order to get people to understand who I am, but also what's possible. Perfect.
29:04
That's why I don't want to be up here.
29:05
I want to be like a nice here where I've just had a really a lot of Cleo soul mother saw her live the other day. Did you dude?
29:11
I was in LA for the New York show and New York for LA show.
29:15
I was texting inflow like I'm the biggest schmuck on the planet right now.
29:19
I was literally inadvertently missed both shows.
29:23
Hopefully I'll get a second chance.
29:24
I heard it was absolutely phenomenal. Amazing.
29:25
But see, she's she keeps making the culture moves. Amazing. Right.
29:29
Steps in to the big places, but does it on her own terms.
29:31
I think she's a great example of that. Amazing. Yeah. So, so good. Mixtape.
29:34
So, such a base question, but I I I can't can't get past it without figuring.
29:40
This is my way in, so I'm just going to take it.
29:42
Could have been an album, but you chose to do it in a different way.
29:46
Is it because you were far more free with the samples and just wanted to be uninhibited?
29:51
because albums can kind of come with this whole sort of structured weird psychological pressure of like it's there's a yeah there's a irony in what I'm about to say.
29:59
I personally the only difference for me is what I go into the project.
30:05
When I start a project the the only difference for me between me calling an album and a mixtape is my what I went into it thinking it was.
30:11
So if I went in thinking it was an album, then I would have gone into it with that mindset and it probably would have been different in some ways, whether it was less samples, whether it was like my lyrics would be a bit more cohesive.
30:25
Isn't it more about making a statement or something when you're making an album?
30:27
Whereas a mixtape, even though you are making beautiful music, it gives you the freedom to just kind of move with a bit of I think so as well.
30:32
I think it's a bit more freedom and but you're right.
30:37
I don't think there's actually many like there's no rigid structures between in my opinion what makes this different from too different from an album and it's just what I went in thinking it was.
30:46
I love the fact that you're leaning into some of the great sort of creators of of this partic in this particular type of room.
30:52
These great producers who have also very emotional producers like Basement Jacks, you know, Underworld. My god, two months off.
31:00
I mean that's like that's my that's me and my wife's like straight up real talk. That's like our song.
31:04
I guess like oh man it's just such an incredibly emotive beautiful piece of music and so I guess to some degree that sort of feeling that you got from those those artists informed this 100% it's an ineffable feeling that I get listening to a lot of the stuff that well so basically what happened was I found basement jacks and I well I already knew obviously I was very aware but I really deep dived into their first album remedy. Yeah.
31:32
And I'd never heard Remedy before. Yeah.
31:35
I'd never heard Remedy before. Bonkers album. Insane.
31:36
But I I I had heard the the few albums after that, but I hadn't heard Remedy yet.
31:41
So I listened to Remedy and I was like and I for one was somebody that didn't know that they could enjoy.
31:46
I'm very lyric I I am a very melo melodical person when it comes to music.
31:50
So I wasn't aware I was going to enjoy more of an instrumental kind of album, but it was literally it blew me away.
31:54
And I felt things that I hadn't felt before.
31:56
And also more than that, I felt like I was listening to something I'd never listened to before.
32:00
I was like, I've never heard anything like this. Everybody felt that way.
32:03
When Fly Life came out, it was like uh it was like everybody was very much in the club headsp space and knew who the players were and were excited about the Spaceman Jack's crew crew.
32:13
When Fly Life came out, it's like that's the only song anybody was talking about. Wow.
32:18
So, when they came out with Red Alert, it was like there was mass anticipation for remedy cuz they built this kind of underground like anticipation of like these two are going to change.
32:27
I wish I wish it was still that way.
32:29
That would be so far over.
32:30
But in a way, it kind of is, isn't it?
32:32
Don't you think that to some degree for the kids?
32:34
Hollis represents an element of that what he's trying to do. True.
32:39
Like, and you mean like a building of an underground, dude.
32:43
There was a lot of people who were waiting on their phones and on their devices for that album to drop last week. For sure.
32:47
Oh, I mean, yeah, you're completely right. But yeah. Yeah.
32:49
No, you're actually Yeah, I guess you're right.
32:53
But I guess the difference is, I suppose, is that it's more in person.
32:55
It would be more in person, a mouthto-mouth delivery. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Pause. I'm joking.
33:05
I never Hey, I've never said that before in my life.
33:06
I don't feel so appropriate to say. The kids say it.
33:08
Um but yeah, the the You're right though. It's it's it's a lot.
33:13
But but you know, it's all to do with someone's core fan base.
33:14
I mean, he's an example actually, funny enough, of someone with a really good core fan base early from the jump.
33:18
Also, also created a niche, developed an identity. Yes.
33:23
Fed the fans through that lane.
33:25
And that's why he is doing what he's doing.
33:27
And that's and and genuinely he's like a very good I always use him as an example when I talk to like artists that are trying to figure it out.
33:33
I'm like look at him bro. Yeah. Literally look at him.
33:36
And none of that would have probably happened if I'm really honest.
33:38
Well, let's trace it all the way. Okay.
33:40
Let's trace it all the way back to Kanye then Future Future then Cardi Ci.
33:48
I think Carti is Carti is a big one.
33:48
I think Carti is Carti is a big one. I think I think you know he changed the sound design and this and and what people that distortion that wake up filthy that drops and it's just has an effect on kids and I think out of that comes this like oh that can be club too that I you know what I mean like I think you're right it's just a sense of I
34:06
think a lot of kids quote unquote they want to feel a sense of belonging and they want to feel different a lot of the time and it's that's why it's not that's why like you know no matter what era we're in we'll always know that people want to some people want to be outcasts Some people are naturally outcasted, but some people also want have a desire to be different and want to be outcast. And
34:22
And I feel like more so than ever, um I think there's kids that want to have an identity that they feel like no one else can really share with them.
34:29
And I can relate cuz I was the same when I was a teenager.
34:32
I really wanted to be a little different.
34:33
But through but the magic of it is that I found a lot of great music through wanting to be different.
34:37
So same thing here in these days, it's like if you can look different than let's say someone's in in midstate like flipping what? Missouri. Missouri.
34:45
Say we're in Missouri and you go to high school and everyone is listening to the same thing, wearing the same clothes.
34:53
How much of a like outlet would somebody like the, you know, Carti be for these people? Huge. Such a huge outlet.
35:01
Such a huge outlet because willing to travel 300 miles to somewhere to go see the arena shows closest to you, right?
35:08
Because suddenly now you can align yourself with not just an artist, but you can align yourself with all these other like-minded people that are like you and find friends based off of that.
35:15
find a girlfriend maybe from that, find a job from that, like find T-shirts matter. They really do.
35:22
They tell you who you are.
35:22
They tell people they matter.
35:23
And so what are you going to do other than want to thank the musician for being able to give you this type of lifestyle that you didn't have before when you weren't quote unquote cool and you were like everybody else and you assimilated?
35:33
You have to thank them by going to the shows, being the first one to stream the album, paying for the tickets, paying for merch.
35:39
And that's why you have these cop families.
35:42
And that's kind of what I always wanted to give people.
35:44
It's not like Although I don't think I'm the most I don't think I'm the most edgy musician. Of course I'm not.
35:49
But I do know that I I am maybe more naturally aligned with a different style of you know music for some people.
35:57
I think my the aesthetics are I try and make things be so it's you're an outsider on the inside. Yes.
36:02
I try to have it so anyone that listens to me can feel like we all have a sense of belonging in my world.
36:07
Well because you bring people with them.
36:08
That's the difference, right?
36:10
Artists like you and Emo did this.
36:11
We talked a little bit about that last time. Emo did that.
36:12
Emma was like, "This is not a party we were ever invited to, but now we're in. And guess what?
36:17
You can come with us and then you can leave.
36:20
Then you can get the out.
36:22
Then you can get the out."
36:22
And it's the getting the out, which is kind of the play.
36:28
See, the the people who really want it, they never leave. Mhm.
36:30
They never leave the room.
36:32
Once they're in, they're like too scared to leave. Like, I want it too bad. I've got to stay.
36:36
And you're like, "Oh, no.
36:38
I'm going to leave, but I'll be back." Yeah.
36:40
I just got to go make something new and then I'll come back. Oh, that's a good one.
36:43
That's the level that you want to get to.
36:45
I think you're kind of Yeah, I know what you mean about like you got more to do. Yes. No, exactly. You're completely right. I agree.
36:53
Like, and I've said this before.
36:55
My big I say her name in every interview.
36:57
She is my she's my main source of inspiration, especially going uh being like what 18, 17, finding music for the first finding good good um tasteful music for the first time and aligning myself Yes.
37:11
And Karda, finding Kada and finding Kala through Kanada.
37:13
It was like I was very famili like she didn't drop an like she the last time she was in 2014.
37:20
I think that before that point. Was it 2014? Was it God?
37:22
It must be Can we I'm going to fact check that. Yeah. Go on.
37:26
Because that sounds way too long ago.
37:29
But that's the beauty of an artist like Kella is time doesn't actually matter. It was 2017. 2017.
37:34
I don't know how I got 2014, but yes, 2017 was the album that she had dropped previous to that.
37:41
And I was like and obviously in my head I was like, "Flip, I've missed the boat."
37:43
And then seeing that she was she released again, I was like, "Wow, she took a flipping seven, eight, n sixyear break. Like this is insanity."
37:53
And just in that meantime, she I don't know if she was making the new album, if she was working on herself, finding love, going on holidays. Who knows? But guess what?
38:01
When she came back, you were right there.
38:04
Yeah, I was right here still.
38:04
And the album was great and it was really wellreceived and amazing.
38:08
Faith in people, right, that everyone's going to stick stick with you and hang around and want to come and see these shows.
38:12
But that's only a privilege that you can be afforded if you made the time to build the core fan base at the very beginning.
38:19
That's what that is the other train of thought because a lot of artists cannot take that break and come back and it's very sad to see it, but they can't. Yeah.
38:26
Yeah. and and and you know even with my case I mean even with my case like you're saying like you know you and I'm like yeah I feel like I'm very comfortably able to kind of tap in and tap out but you know obviously even I have that fear of like oh you know like has it been too long and you know what I'm saying but you know I guess time
38:45
will tell and isn't isn't the remedy to that just work at the end of the day it is you just got to get back to work rolly sleeves and get back to work and even if you lost 30% because they're off over somewhere else go find them go find your audience they're waiting for you they're over Yeah, that's why I say the world is literally right here. It's It's right there. We're in it. You love making music. I love it.
39:01
You love making music, you know, and you, you know, you produce and you get into the whole roll your sleeves up type of thing. And I love that.
39:08
What What is the environment like when you're making music, you know, when you're actually in the zone and nothing can interrupt you?
39:13
Is it is it is it a spell that can't be broken?
39:17
What's the feeling like when you're really like in your flow?
39:18
So for me it's a matter of um being around people that I obviously really like and then also being I really prefer being in the UK.
39:27
I don't like being in America too much to make songs.
39:34
Feels too much of a trade. What's the trade?
39:36
Speed dating writing over here. Come to a session.
39:38
Come to a session a little bit.
39:40
But it's like I when I work on something I only work with a very select pool of producers that I trust and know will get me there.
39:48
Um, for this project, I actually entrusted somebody I'd never worked with before, which was fun and but and but luckily he's super super lovely and like he helped me.
39:54
He was actually a really he ended up being a really amazing exec almost like somebody that was kept the files, kept everything in place, got the masters that like he was a very useful very useful for me to have. Um, who was that?
40:06
Oh, well this is his name's Axel.
40:08
Oh my be so happy I mentioned he's going to be like gag like yeah. His name's Axel.
40:11
He's from Norway and like he so funny I'm mentioning him but yes.
40:17
So I cuz I work with the same producers a lot.
40:19
I I love I have one called Count Baldor. I have one called Phil.
40:20
I have um obviously we've got Mirram Massa and we've got Oscar Sheller as well.
40:26
So these are people that I go to and I return to cuz How does Axel get a job?
40:30
So exactly how does he get a job? It's so funny.
40:32
I feel like I was in Kentucky Louisville for the Jack Hollow Festival which ended up being cancelled cuz I was meant to perform on the second day but the second day got cancelled because of the thunderstorm.
40:43
And so I guess we're like what do we do now?
40:45
So they Jack couldn't charm his way out of that, could he? Oh my god.
40:47
Could charm his way out of almost anything, but he couldn't charm a storm away. Nature, it's me, Jack.
40:53
I'm giving you that look.
40:56
You know that look that sends people on the red carpet crazy.
40:58
Why don't you just go away and come back another day? Listen, he cried. He tried.
41:03
I watched him try, but he couldn't do it that day. It was too strong.
41:04
The the winds were too strong for him.
41:07
So basically what it was, I met him and he was like he was just there was something about him that made me very intrigued to hear what he could do cuz he was very much I study your stuff like you know like you're what you're my favorite artist like he was playing chess with you and he totally outmaneuvered you.
41:23
Not really outmaneuvered though because there was a chance I could have outmaneuvered him upon hearing the uh beats that he was going to show me.
41:28
Of course if I didn't like them I would have been like h probably not this time and that would have been Oh that's that's your goodbye. Not this time. Yes.
41:37
That's my shout you for the next one.
41:40
But in his case, I really liked what he did and he had a very quick understanding of exactly the sound I wanted to do, which I thought was quite rare to have very quickly.
41:47
Obviously, he made a beline for you.
41:49
He was like, I've been I've got this music with you in mind. Well, kind of.
41:52
He didn't really have any beats prepared.
41:53
I kind of sent I sent him a album that I wanted to give off the vibe of or not give off the vibe, but I sent him something for inspiration and he basically came back and it sounded like really on the really good. What was the album?
42:03
good. What was the album? Um I think it was like R was something like Ru Armardo I think it was Oh yeah yeah yeah yeah but it was and and he sent something I was like it's just like fair enough like I can't really argue like you did do
42:16
your studying and then yeah he ended up being the exec and I and I obviously got like the main producers to come back and like got them to work on some stuff and so we ended up making it very quickly and very cohesively but yeah I don't do the speed dating sessions anymore. I
42:28
I used to I don't do them anymore. Yeah, they're brutal.
42:31
They are and I'm not It's really tough.
42:33
It's like hey how's your day? Hey, how's it going? What's going on?
42:35
What's happening in your life? Who broke your heart? Okay, let's get to work. Yeah.
42:37
I don't really That's not my way. Yeah. Yeah.
42:39
You sound so um just very excited and engaged on this music and your performance and the way you're singing and delivering on this just sounds like you love this music. Thank you.
42:55
[Laughter] I'll give her a bag of popcorn.
42:59
That would suggest to me that the time you had in between projects worked aing treat. It did.
43:04
And for me, I'm one the one thing I'm really thankful for is actually sometimes I'm a big manifestor.
43:10
I'm not necessarily good. Let's talk about that.
43:15
I'm a big manifestor and I'm someone that believes in Oh, I've got a kernel stuck in my gums. So, Mr.
43:19
Risky, that's what they're what you run when you put the popcorn and eat the popcorn.
43:22
It's actually doing more damage than good. That's the thing.
43:26
this, which is funny because I'm I'm still going for it. I know.
43:30
It's like I'm watching you self-destruct in your second bag of like white cheddar popcorn. Yeah.
43:34
And the irony is it's called smart food. Uh, not dumb food. Very smart food. Dumb food, right? Smart food for a dummy. My bad.
43:49
I just think you need to check in with me when you think you can make a joke. Yeah. Like ever.
43:52
To see if I'm like ready for it.
43:54
Just like just air check it. Yeah.
43:57
But anyway, my point is we were just talking about, yes, I'm a big manifestor.
44:02
So, essentially what that is is sometimes, you know, I think it's very easy for people to punish themselves and think, for God's sake, like this didn't work out the way I wanted it to.
44:10
But whereas I'm somebody that if I dwell on that too much, I'll lose my mind.
44:13
So, I try and find the hidden beauty of everything.
44:15
And my hidden beauty, I I'll never forget, I always when it came to my first album and I was like I didn't do any marketing.
44:25
I was like, "This is the album. Here it is.
44:26
And obviously people at the label were like, "Oh, I mean, if you would have marketed, it probably would have done like really well and then you would have probably charted."
44:33
And I was like, "You know what?
44:33
Yeah, I remember for a little there was about a it was about a day at one hour in one evening where I was like, damn, they're kind of right.
44:40
I probably could have like marketed that more and I actually had like maybe like something maybe more fruitful come out of it.
44:47
Sold this a little too much." Yeah.
44:51
However, as I quickly snapped out of it when I realized, but this is actually exactly what I subconsciously wanted.
44:57
You have you go from blowing up in 2021, you end up having this project that has a lot of this like viral stuff on it.
45:02
Then you kind of get this really then you have your biggest song in your career in 2023 and then you have that song on your on your album.
45:08
Like I don't really care about my second album.
45:12
I don't really want to have an three albums.
45:14
I don't how do I put this?
45:18
I'm very happy to have a drop in a drop in streams.
45:20
I'm very happy to have an album that is way more pensive and less appealing to like virality or less appealing to the teens or less appealing to I'm very happy to have a project that can prove prove my musical. Yes.
45:32
As long as it adds to a narrative and now beautifully the narrative is now okay.
45:38
The first project was underdeveloped but hype and and and like hard and cool.
45:44
Second project was well done, cohesive.
45:47
she can prove her musical like she can prove her musical techers um but it was less enjoyed by like the masses in terms of um kids and Tik Tok it was less you know Tik Tok informed if that's so now it it's afforded me now a beautiful balance of okay well people know I can make good music in a pensive and slower style I have the ability to
46:08
do it but they also know that I can do the other thing which is like make this okay sure I can do both I've proved I can do Oh, so now it affords me now leeway to now make a mixtape like this, which is like, okay, now I can go and do exactly what I want cuz I've already proven myself with this and this and this. And I don't really ever care about
46:24
And I don't really ever care about what I wanted to really have with my album was a cultish following for the album.
46:31
And although and the thing is like I think that in so many words I still think I got it.
46:38
still think I got it. I still think I have people that a lot of my fans found me from the album and a lot of like teens will kids younger people will be like Sam I missed when she did drum and bass but I'm like yeah but how can I make two albums two projects of drum and bass and gar how can I do that it shows
46:53
no development it shows no growth my thing is it all adds to a larger picture of one day once I'm five albums five projects in we can look at all of them and see where I've gone for each one who's really here it's a consolidation process which is an important part of it I We see it all the time with artists where it starts really big here and you're lucky. Then sometimes it goes to
47:10
Then sometimes it goes to there.
47:12
Sometimes after four albums it's down to here, but here is still a really great amount of people who love what you do.
47:18
And here everyone is still revolving around you trying to figure out where they tap back in.
47:22
Some of them may tap in to the album they weren't sure about.
47:25
That happens all the time.
47:25
Radio Head, a classic example of that.
47:27
They are totally fine consolidating.
47:28
They have no problem making the right decision creatively and assuming that at some point you probably will love Moonshake Pool even though you didn't understand it 6 years ago.
47:37
That literally happened to me this year.
47:39
Yeah, that's my that's that's kind of what I figured out recently and especially when you look at so many artists that have actually been around for ages and they just blow up and then we're looking at their old discoraphy and suddenly those songs are doing really well because if they're new stuff that's I've always known that would be the case for me.
47:54
Pink Panther is Are you in this for life? What? Like a musician? Yeah. No, no, not for life.
48:00
Like for that was the hook that was like all leading up to this moment.
48:05
You're like, man, by the time I've made 10 albums and I've come and I was going to hit you with, "Are you in this life?"
48:10
And you would go, "You know what I am?"
48:11
And you're like, "No, come on, mate." Obviously.
48:13
Okay, maybe I'm taking it too literally for life. No, of course not. Like, why not?
48:18
Why wouldn't you want to make music with so much fun for the rest of your life? No, that's not No.
48:25
When I say five albums in, I realistically when I'm if I if it can afford me until I'm like 40, wonderful. Amazing. I'm interested by this.
48:32
I don't I don't feel the need to when I'm older go into like legacy, you know?
48:38
I don't know if that's me.
48:41
That's why I really enjoy Shardai because she does the odd performance here and there, but like she's, you know, she's really just on her own.
48:49
She's she did her she did what she needed to do and then she said, "Right, you got the stuff now."
48:53
And what's amazing about Shard is that she's so timeless that now even kids young kids like but now like younger people are getting into her even just now. Yeah. Yeah.
49:02
She'll never she'll never die. She'll never die.
49:04
Well, she also moves like a snow leopard.
49:06
She's like she's the best calculated and she knows exactly what she wants out of what she does and she that's why she's the goat.
49:16
And yeah, and I I'm not comparing myself to Charlie, of course, but I'm just saying like as we near the end of this particular conversation, uh, and dot dot dot this, uh, how do you establish a framework for yourself now that allows you to not cut your own hair and focus on sort of enjoying this experience?
49:31
For me, it's just knowing my limits.
49:33
And I think a lot of my limits come in form of I I fear a lot of things. Put it that way. I have a lot of fears.
49:40
H, no, let me be let me be more I don't have a lot of fears. My bad. Re recant. Recant in it.
49:48
You Hey, you're a good recant. You are. There you go. There you go.
49:50
But I'm going to recount that.
49:52
I have I Man, I had two coffees this morning.
49:54
I knew it was going to be this one.
49:56
I'm so glad I've kept up with you. Yeah. No, it's okay. Yeah.
49:58
Um, so for me, I don't have a lot of fears, but when I have a fear, it's a very strong fear.
50:05
It's never just like a middle tier.
50:06
It's like it's the worst thing that could happen.
50:08
So, for me, performing really does kind of come into that.
50:11
And um so for me it's just being aware about which performances I know I'll be able to like do.
50:15
What makes what do you enjoy? Okay.
50:17
What's an enjoyable environment for you?
50:18
Where do you feel like you can enjoy it and not be overwhelmed by Okay.
50:21
Is is actually a lot to do with crowd sizes too.
50:24
Um I'd say my more my most comfortable cap would be 10k.
50:29
Anything going over that is where I get a little bit like oh that's why festivals are a bit sketchy for you cuz they're uncontrolled. It's very uncontrolled.
50:35
And plus as well there's a lot of distance between you and your and people watching you.
50:38
like there's a whole barrier and a whole like you can be a very a few feet above them.
50:45
So for me that also very much the the goldfish bowl is not your jam.
50:47
No, I very much need like that's why I love boiler room because you're right there and those are perfect for me.
50:54
Like I love being right up close, but that's not just because I think my music sounds better and is enjoyed better in those scenarios.
50:59
But I think for me it's just so much nicer to be able to not even to be that person, but I definitely would describe myself as someone of the quoteunquote people like I'm not I don't I any sign and semblance I have of myself where I feel like I'm put above like VIP sections. Oh god.
51:15
I was like bro I'm like this is so cringey.
51:18
Even if I wanted to be put in these positions, I had to be put in these places.
51:23
I will never ever be in these positions comfortably. Yeah.
51:27
like being super separated from people that are here to paying to watch me and stuff like that. It's so hard for me.
51:32
So, the Brits the Brits are a tough night for you. The The Brits. The Brits. Yeah. Oh, no. The Brits aren't. Oh, why?
51:39
Because it's like it's an awards. The most VIP, I guess.
51:44
But that's kind of a bit different though because that's very clear as to what it is.
51:46
Like there's not necessarily like I don't know how to put it. There's a purpose. Yeah, there's a purpose.
51:53
purpose. like you know it's not like I'm trying to think of it but okay but you you understand my point but essentially arenas are very hard for me to I can't really I I couldn't do it I couldn't do anymore I don't think I could do an arena anymore and um that's about it though those so you go in the
52:10
round in Brixton to be in the middle of it no I'm not going in the round that would be pretty sick though be kind of sick but very like I'd have to be constantly like rotating to make sure everyone like is there's an anxiety of exposure to how do I my back is to somebody at all times. Yeah, true. No, I Yeah, true.
52:25
No, I think something smaller where I can see people's faces and look into their eyes and they can feel a bit more close to me would be would be wonderful.
52:32
Long may this journey continue.
52:35
I hope we get a chance to talk again and again. I really hope so.
52:39
I wonder if we're going to be like still talking when I'm like 30.
52:42
That's what I'm saying though.
52:42
But by the way, I totally but I thought you gave a great answer about, you know, the idea of checking out.
52:45
I mean, I I'm just so protective of of music and love watching artists evolve and find their space.
52:51
And never say never, but man, one day at a time, one project at a time. Yeah.