0:01
my old photos.
Search this video
0:02
>> Yeah, it's the story before the story, right?
0:04
Man, >> because of Days We Left Behind, we started to look at memories from the past.
0:11
That was me and John going to um Paris on a hitchhiking trip. >> Wow.
0:19
>> And that one's me and my mom and dad and my brother Mike.
0:22
It's pretty amazing to go back and just think, did I wear those little shoes?
0:27
Looking back at white and black, reminders of my past. Nothing ever stays. Nothing comes to mind.
0:48
No one can erase the days we left behind.
0:57
There's a great lyric on um the days we left behind where you open the song and you say uh looking back at white and black reminders of my past. >> Yeah.
1:05
>> It's really beautiful and honest and reflective and it's not something I feel like I've heard you say many times before that explicitly like I'm really going over and thinking about those times. >> Yeah.
1:19
you know, you get to a stage where you sort of remember uh your youth and stuff, you know, I mean, all through your life you do, but um now I go back up to Liverpool and uh so I go to Dungeon Lane, >> you know, I I kind of I sometimes will do a tour for people. I'm like the tour bus.
1:42
You get my grandkids in the back.
1:45
Oh, this is where we did that.
1:45
And this is where I used to go.
1:48
Dungeon Lane was funny cuz it was where I used to kind of escape the housing estate and go down to the shore. >> Yeah.
2:00
>> Which was uh kind of nice until the one day where I got mugged down there.
2:06
There were a couple of local boys.
2:09
>> You haven't lived and there someone tries to take something off you. >> That's right. >> By force. And they did. They took my watch. >> Yeah.
2:16
Did you try and charm your way out of it?
2:20
>> Try, but the these boys were not being >> playing. No. >> It's funny.
2:24
I looked at it on the map.
2:26
It didn't escape me that Dungeon Lane now sits right at the very end of Liverpool John Linen Airport. >> Yeah.
2:33
>> And I wondered whether that's ever crossed your mind to some degree that where it started for you is has also right next to it.
2:38
you know, the kind of thing that happens to some of the most important people in in human history.
2:44
You know, they they name something like an airport after John F.
2:45
Kennedy, you know, it's like John Lennon.
2:47
It's kind of it's kind of an interesting >> He would have liked that.
2:50
We used to uh we used to go out to the airport quite a bit and just, you know, bike out there and just hang out and look at the airplanes, you know, that was a big thrill in those days.
3:04
So we were quite often there, but it was just Liverpool airport, Liverpool speak airport, I think, or something like that.
3:12
>> When we think back to to the way people are when they're around, you know, and the energy they carry with themselves, you know, I always got the feeling being a fan of John as well is that, you know, as much as he may have privately liked it, he also could have quite easily gone, I don't know about all that. You know what I mean?
3:25
Well, yeah, but no, I think in this instance, I think he would have liked it >> because uh people who are very bold and are very upfront can often be quite sort of sensitive inside.
3:37
That's why they're putting the shield up.
3:40
And John, I think with his life, with his father leaving home when he was a kid and >> his mom died pretty when he was >> his mom died early.
3:50
That was that was a bond that we had together cuz mine did too.
3:55
But um yeah, I remember John saying to me once, "How am I going to be remembered, you know, after I die kind of thing."
4:02
And I was saying, "Don't worry, it's going to be okay.
4:08
You've done enough stuff by this point >> to be remembered with a lot of respect and love."
4:17
>> So he would have loved to airport named after him. >> Yeah.
4:21
That would answer his question.
4:23
How about I go into the future?
4:27
>> You're an airport, man.
4:28
>> You're an airport, man. Totally.
4:28
Um, there's some lovely photos here, you know, and uh I I love that you've been leaning into that within the art as well.
4:37
The collage you've created is beautiful.
4:38
I know you did that, you know, picking and choosing and putting it all together for the artwork. And what jumps out?
4:43
I mean, I suppose we got to kind of start here, don't we? >> Yeah.
4:46
I mean this this is uh you know because um of days we left behind. >> Yeah.
4:53
>> We started to look at memories from the past.
4:56
So that was me and my mom and dad and my brother Mike.
5:02
>> It is pretty amazing to go back and just think did I wear those little shoes and those little socks?
5:08
>> You didn't have much choice.
5:08
It wasn't like you're able to tell your parents you know what I'm not going to wear those little shoes. >> That's true. Mom, this is not me.
5:16
>> Doesn't suit my identity right now at the age of How old are you there? I mean, how old are you?
5:19
>> Uh, three or four or something. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's funny.
5:21
We look at photos now and obviously we take so many of them and probably don't even look at 90%.
5:27
>> Well, that's the thing about it.
5:27
The the phone, isn't it now? Yeah.
5:29
I often say to people, when are we going to look at these? >> Yeah.
5:34
>> Cuz at least when it was in a snapshot album, you probably didn't look at that much either, but at least if you wanted to, >> it was calling to you, right? It was there. just go to it, you know. >> Yeah.
5:44
But it does make these even more precious, you know, when you do look at them like this and you realize that um this photo took a lot of effort.
5:49
I mean, you've got a dog there.
5:50
Everyone, half the the crowd probably didn't even want to have the photo taken, you know.
5:53
It's like grab it, move on. Yeah.
5:55
Well, I used to go hitchhiking quite a bit.
5:58
Uh cuz in those days you could >> um and there was no sort of danger involved.
6:06
And I think it must have been my suggestion to George and then later to John >> that we go hitchhiking because I can't think of either of them saying to me we should go here.
6:18
Sounds like my kind of stupid idea.
6:22
>> But um yeah, so me and George had a couple of nice trips.
6:26
This one was going to Wales and those people were with um he uh the the guy we met him in the pub. >> Yeah.
6:40
>> So, and me and George when we went to Wales like that um we had our guitars and cuz we're from Liverpool we're like >> big city dudes.
6:52
>> I mean, you know, rolling into Wales with your guitar. >> Yeah.
6:55
You know, do you know this one?
7:00
>> U and we played a little bit in the pub. >> Yeah.
7:03
>> And I was thinking it was really great for the group because you you kind of really got to know each other >> on a hitchhiking trip.
7:12
You know, the way we did it um was we never knew where we were going to stay.
7:18
I mean, it's a bit of a feature of my life. I'll just do that.
7:23
just go, "Hey, we'll find somewhere."
7:26
And so, you know, about 5:00 every evening, we'd uh we just said, "We better we better find somewhere now."
7:36
You know, go around looking for bed and breakfasts.
7:40
>> That's how he got to know that family >> and that family. Yeah. Through John, the son. >> Yeah.
7:46
>> And uh we were saying, "Well, we're still looking for somewhere to stay."
7:48
He said, "Yeah, well, my mom, you could come and stay with us." And it was very nice.
7:54
It was just suddenly you were just in a family. Love it.
7:57
What's really amazing as well is that we're looking at this photo and you've been you, you know, you brought this photo up in relation to this beautiful music you've made and it's an exercise, a wonderful exercise, but it's an exercise and a period of your life to reflect and make a great record out of that.
8:12
a great record out of that. what this photo has probably been looked at or something of that like it by the people who were there or another photo whatever people would be like oh my god I can't believe that's Paul and I can't believe that's George and I can't you know what I mean it's >> you think about all the memories you've
8:27
created for other people going and crashing on their couch when you were just kids >> I like that is nice and uh it's true having kind of done what we did with the Beatles you do get people just off the street you know just, you know, I was in a supermarket yesterday getting something and I came out and there's a lady there, you know, thank you. >> I said, "What? >> I said, "What? Just thank you."
8:58
>> You know, and it's like, "Wow."
8:58
And you do think like what you say, you know, how many people's lives you touch >> with your music and with the stuff you do. So, yeah, I love that.
9:08
It's it's obviously a great thing.
9:11
You know, if you could have said to me when I was there, you know, >> when you grow up, you know, you it's going to touch a lot of people's lives in a good way.
9:22
>> I always love how you put people at ease.
9:26
>> And that seems like an obvious thing to say.
9:27
Most human beings would probably try to put each other at ease, right?
9:31
>> But it's not easy for other people to relate to someone who's had >> the impact you had on that lady in the supermarket.
9:36
She chose to do it in a very simple and lovely way just to thank you and move on. Right?
9:41
>> But you've had to find a way after a very very intense period of time >> to live the rest of your life being very recognized and and and coming out of a cannon really.
9:53
>> And I've never asked you sort of how that was or how you had developed a way to remain relatable and enjoy your life and not be under the spotlight.
10:00
You know, >> I think that's the thing.
10:03
You know, I remember once in the early days of the Beatles, we were kind of recognized most places, but me and Ringo went on holiday with our girlfriends then to Greece >> and nobody knew us.
10:14
So, it was like, this is great.
10:18
Wow, we must come back here more often.
10:20
You know, even when we get really famous, >> yeah, >> we can always come to Greece and they're never going to know us.
10:27
But, of course, that didn't work.
10:29
But um once that didn't work and once I realized, oh, I'm going to be famous, you know, all my life, if I'm lucky, >> yeah, I thought, okay, big decision time.
10:41
Now, you either stop and you just sort of think that was lovely.
10:45
I had a great time with the music and you do something else more anonymous >> or you carry on.
10:51
So, if you carry on, you better get some sort of strategy.
10:57
You're signed up now, you know.
10:57
Um, and I was very lucky with my Liverpool family.
11:04
They uh are the kind of people who put people at ease.
11:10
>> So, I kind of learned it just be by being one of that family.
11:14
>> The thing nowadays though, of course, is >> photographs. Yeah.
11:18
>> You know, I'll meet someone and say, "Oh."
11:20
And I go, "I know what they're reaching for.
11:22
They get the camera and it's coming out, but I've got a thing now."
11:26
And uh I say, "I'm sorry. I don't do pictures. >> Yeah.
11:30
>> So, no, I hope you understand, but I'm having a private evening or whatever I'm doing with my wife or I'm with my kids or And you'd be surprised people get it. >> Yeah.
11:40
>> So, I say, but I'll I'll chat. >> Yeah.
11:43
>> And you know, Nancy will say to me, "You spend more time.
11:46
You You could have just taken the picture, you know, just hello.
11:53
I'm there for hours going, yeah, well, let me tell you."
11:56
>> She's like, "Maybe take a picture.
12:00
But I I actually spend a lot of time explaining >> 20 seconds explaining what would take two seconds to take.
12:04
But I but I think it's a really strong boundary because you know the human experience is what got you into this in the first place.
12:12
The sharing of stories through music.
12:14
The photo just becomes a souvenir to as we established. >> Yeah.
12:18
>> What does it mean sometimes?
12:19
>> And I get it, you know, cuz I see someone famous and I want to take a picture. I want a reminder.
12:23
But uh I my line is I say to them, you know, down in San Tropé >> there's a guy on the on the the harbor front >> and he's got a monkey and you can get your picture taken with the monkey.
12:37
And I said the minute I start doing that, you get your camera out, I feel like that monkey cuz I'm not me anymore. I'm the monkey.
12:48
Um, and I say it's kind of important to me to be just me, not the guy who's posing.
12:56
>> I'm just loving it because the idea of it's like, you know what, I think I've got I think I've got the story that's going to make everybody understand there's a monkey in Cra in Cetrop. >> Yeah.
13:06
And he wouldn't do the photo.
13:06
I got a great story about the monkey. >> Well, that's it.
13:12
You know, I like to feel like me and the minute you are him, >> the celebrity. >> Yeah.
13:20
>> But people are normally very cool. >> Yeah. >> Say, "Oh, I get it.
13:22
I got to, you know, well, you've given us so much."
13:24
And I think it's I think it's harder for newer pop stars to get away with it because which they have every right to as well because there's a sense of like well I'm currently in the process of helping you build your dream as a fan whereas you've given us so much incredible music and also you've been through a lot in the face of success.
13:44
>> You know you've lost >> people >> and it's come at a cost and I think people know that and respect the fact that you keep showing up and wanting to give us music and giving us this gift. So, thank you for that.
13:56
>> Yeah, I say to people my pleasure >> cuz it really was, you know, it sounds a bit glib my pleasure.
14:00
But it really doing that music being that guy was was a pleasure is a pleasure.
14:11
>> I can hear it on this new record.
14:13
There's freedom in this music.
14:13
So, I understand now that you took your time and you you you made the songs when you had the songs and it wasn't it didn't feel doesn't sound forced because it wasn't right. Yeah. No, that's true. Yeah.
14:25
I remember meeting up with the girl who's her. >> Yeah.
14:30
>> She and she's terrific.
14:30
She was rehearsing nearby where we were rehearsing.
14:34
So, we had a few cups of tea together and conversations. >> Yeah. She's amazing. >> Yeah. And she is amazing.
14:39
And she was saying, you know, can you can you decide what goes on your record? >> I said, yeah.
14:47
like doesn't everyone she don't know you know she said these days people the label uh her manager and people and will tell her I don't think that song's quite right or you so you're guided more than you want to be >> I think so I remember thinking I'm I feel sorry for that so I am free I'm very lucky but I would always fight for that you know there doesn't seem much point otherwise Yeah.
15:18
And there were I'm sure there were times in your career when you had to I'm sure there were times when things were really successful and a lot of money, a lot of industry, a lot of pressure on you delivering music.
15:28
Seems weird to even say that, but it is a reality >> where you probably had to fight a lot harder for that freedom than you do having achieved it. >> Yeah.
15:35
Uh and you know, the good thing was there was four of us. >> Yeah.
15:39
>> And so um we had the union. >> Yeah. >> You know. >> Yeah.
15:44
So, I remember we went to the Philippines and we'd been traveling and we hadn't had a day off and suddenly we had a day off and we're like, "Oh, yeah, great. Love it."
15:53
And it was in Manila in the Philippines and uh so I immediately went out and like went down to the market and bought a little painting.
16:03
And there was real tourist stuff, you know, but it was great not having to be on stage and not having to be the And I got back to the hotel and everyone said, "Oh, panic. Why? What's wrong?"
16:14
He said, "Look on the telly."
16:18
And on the television they're saying, "And the Beatles will soon be showing up at the palace.
16:27
Here's um Alda, the first lady, >> Alda Maros, >> the first lady, and her blue ladies. They're all waiting.
16:35
Any minute now, the Beatles will be there.
16:37
And we're going, "Well, we're not going.
16:39
This is really embarrassing."
16:42
And Brian Epstein, our manager, saying, "You've got to go.
16:46
Look, you've got there's no way you can."
16:48
We said, "Nope, we're not going."
16:51
And as as a unit of four, we just said, "We're not going."
16:54
So, we just hung out and partied and just had our day off.
17:00
But it didn't go down well.
17:00
almost got beat up in the airport the next day. Yeah.
17:04
Taxi drivers and everybody. Yeah.
17:06
>> Anyway, but we said no.
17:06
Um but >> yeah, I think you know when when you start off in your career, you pretty much want to say yes to everything. Yeah.
17:16
>> Musically you're given an idea.
17:16
Once or twice though, we realize we had to be ourselves and say no. Sorry.
17:24
you know, um, early days of recording.
17:28
We were looking for a hit >> and, uh, George Martin, our producer, um, said, "I've got this song that a couple of London writers had written."
17:41
And he said, "It's it's a hit."
17:41
So, you guys should do it.
17:44
We said, "What what what is it?"
17:46
And it was a song called How Do You Do How Do You Do It?
17:50
>> Uh, you do what you do to me.
17:53
>> And it was like, "It's not us, George." >> Yeah.
17:56
He said, "But it's a hit."
17:56
And we said, "No, we don't want to do it."
17:58
He said, "Well," so this is the example of the no sort of thing.
18:03
He said, "Well, I'll tell you what."
18:06
Because he's very smart boy, old George. He said, "Do it.
18:11
Record it and then if you don't like it, fair enough.
18:14
I'll we'll give it to someone else."
18:16
So we did, and we recorded it and didn't like it.
18:21
>> We said, "It's just not us.
18:21
We're trying to be a little bit more rock and roller, a bit more soul, and this was so he gave it to Jerry and the Pacemakers >> and it was massive hit, >> but we were glad we, you know, we didn't want that kind of a hit.
18:37
>> That's one of those rare moments where you're both right >> if you think about it, you know, and that's >> that's a win-win.
18:41
It's a beautiful situation.
18:43
Um, you guys did okay without that song. >> We did all right. >> You did all right. The days we left behind.
18:58
>> This album, it's such a wonderful collection of thoughts, but it's also, you know, it's there are real emotional times and we started talking about days we left behind. >> Yeah.
19:08
>> I want to rewind one song to talk a little bit about Lost Horizon. >> Um, which is great.
19:12
And I and I know it was a song that had been sitting in the canyon and you just didn't realize it and someone reminded you. That's right. Yeah.
19:18
>> A friend who's no longer with us, I believe, brought it up and said, "Hey, >> you got this song." >> Yeah.
19:24
It's uh Eddie Klene, who's um was just a tech guy at Abby Road and um he came to build my studio when I got my own studio.
19:37
So Eddie was the man, you know, and uh we were working on something in the studio and he was he was actually changing things from an old format to a newer format.
19:50
He was changing >> I know what a DAT is, Paul. Don't worry about it. I know what a tape is.
19:56
>> Not everyone does >> clearly cuz Poor Dat was not longed for this world.
20:00
The DAT was it wasn't a sticky format.
20:02
>> No, that was what was wrong with it. The jump back. You had to do it.
20:05
I was I was holding >> I was fishing for it, man. >> Were you? >> I was fishing for it. >> I You caught me. Um Yeah.
20:11
Know Eddie just saw it and he he listened to it and he said, "Do you remember that Lost Horizon?"
20:23
>> And I said, "Uh, what?" No.
20:23
He said, "Oh, there's a song of you with Lost Horizon."
20:28
He said, "It's pretty good." So, let's just play it.
20:29
So, what I liked about it, it was it was uh finished >> from A to Zed. It was uh all there. Lyrics, tune, bridge.
20:42
>> Is that rare for you to have a song completed, structured, and finished and not do something with it? >> Yeah. Um I just forgot it.
20:47
I It's on a cassette >> and I've just been doing other stuff on the cassette and so so I forgot that one.
20:58
It just got in a >> in the crack somewhere. Yeah.
20:59
So I was very happy when he said, "I know. I think it's good.
21:04
And if Eddie thought it was good, >> it was good.
21:08
>> Yeah, >> he was he was a great great guy.
21:11
>> So when you pick up a guitar and it go to an instrument, you have something you want to say and you begin to write.
21:14
Is the ambition and intention always to finish the song?
21:18
Is that important to you that it's not just a verse and a chorus, I'll come back to it.
21:21
Like >> the trouble is nowadays with phones, you always had to finish a thing because there was nowhere to put it, >> you know?
21:33
you had you had to put it in your mind.
21:36
>> So you had to finish it.
21:36
Um so you did uh now it's I've got I must have over a couple of thousand sketches >> on my phone because I'll put it down and think, oh yeah, okay, I'll come back to that. >> I've I've saved it. It's okay.
21:56
>> But that started with the modern age.
21:57
Before that, you would prefer to like you just be like, I got to finish.
21:58
What I guess I'm asking is it's not like we're sitting on a whole lot of songs prephone that are kind of unfinished in some capacity to some degree. >> I have that now.
22:09
>> I have that now because of the luxury of a phone that if you don't have long but you you've got an idea you'll put it down.
22:17
I mean, it's okay that, you know, there's certain ones in that list of um sketches that I will finish that I know, oh, that is a good one, so I will finish that.
22:31
>> And there's certain ones that I kind of think it's piano melody.
22:33
If I ever get asked to do a film score, that can be the theme, you know, whatever.
22:40
Well, I like just putting them down in case.
22:47
>> Do people not ask you to do film scores? >> No, not really.
22:49
No, >> that's about to change, I'd imagine.
22:52
Um, >> ah, inundated with film scores. >> Extended play time. >> Yeah.
22:59
>> You know, as Briano says, you know, it's play time.
23:02
>> Yeah, >> it's important. Um, >> it's funny.
23:04
I saw your Brian Eno >> thing and he goes, he says this thing about playtime.
23:08
I go, >> that's he's nicked it.
23:10
He must He's heard me say it because I'm always saying that.
23:16
People say, "Oh, you're a workaholic."
23:19
I say, "We don't work music, we play it." So, I'm a player holic.
23:21
This is the beef nobody expected.
23:26
See, >> not on a bingo card.
23:30
>> Um, was it emotional at any moment during the writing of Days We Left Behind?
23:35
Does it Let me give you an example.
23:37
There's a moment in Get Back where you're sitting at the piano riding Long and Winding Road. Mhm.
23:42
>> trying to figure it out.
23:44
>> And there's three people sitting there reading the sports pages wondering if Fulham beat Blackburn.
23:48
>> And I'm like, this is bonkers cuz you're writing one of the most heartbreaking, beautiful songs about life >> and your man's just reading the funny pages in the background.
23:57
You can understand why in hindsight years later, it's just mind. >> It looks funny.
24:03
It looks >> It looks It looks hilarious. >> It looks hilarious.
24:05
But the thing is, it had to be like that. You don't what?
24:10
What else would there have been the most sort of >> I know I know I know sitting around me and going that's great Paul you might and the good thing about the Beatles we we took the piss out of each other or something.
24:22
Yeah like at the beginning of the recording of let it be.
24:24
I'm about to do the take and John's going the herald angel sing or something you know >> I'm going thank you. >> Yeah >> thank you.
24:37
I'm trying to get in this >> trying to change your life.
24:39
>> Totally trying to put me off. >> Yeah. >> But that was it.
24:42
>> But that was it. That was the dynamics in in the Beatles, you But it was interesting to see you process and figure out how to make the best possible song and to and to and to complete your emotion, your feeling and your thought is as get as close as you can and it was
24:56
beautiful to witness and but but also you know I I've spoken to so many artists over the course of my life who have who have told me about the emotion they feel sometimes when they strike a chord or they hit a note or they write a word or a lyric that really unlocks something. And I was I got emotional
25:08
And I was I got emotional listening to Days We Left Behind. I'm sure many have. I'm sure Nancy did.
25:12
You know, what about you when you're writing it?
25:15
How does it feel when you're writing something like that? >> Yeah.
25:18
No, I I enjoyed writing that one.
25:22
I I pretty much enjoy writing all of them cuz it's it's a it's a thing.
25:24
It's it's like playing a game.
25:27
It's it's a fun thing to do. You know what?
25:29
Oh, that will go with that.
25:31
Oh, I can rhyme that with that. Oh, yeah. That's good.
25:34
You know, and you're always figuring out fun little things.
25:39
Um, with that one, I started off with a little piano riff that's at the beginning.
25:45
We played it on guitar in the end, but it was just this little piano riff, and I thought, "That's nice. I like that.
25:50
That's a that's an intro.
25:52
It's good notes, you know."
25:55
Uh, and then I got into photos, this idea of looking back, and it kind of should have been looking back at black and white reminders of my past.
26:08
But I switched it to white and black reminders of my looking looking back and it that fell into place.
26:14
I thought, well, that's nice.
26:16
So, I was now, you know, committed to reminders of my past. So, that's great.
26:24
So then you go, okay, what am I thinking of?
26:27
Smoky bars, cheap guitars.
26:29
My first guitar was a Rosetti Lucky 7 that I bought in Liverpool.
26:32
Um, and when I got it to Hamburg, it broke.
26:40
It was like so crappy little thing that it just it it broke.
26:43
So anyway, cheap guitars.
26:46
So yeah, you you just go through that and I said then see the boys of Dungeon Lane.
26:50
That was me going back to this place where we live.
26:58
Me and George lived in this area called Speak.
27:00
Um, and that's where I met George.
27:03
So, there lots of sort of lovely memories about these places and the Dungeon Lane thing.
27:08
As I say, I used to go down there. I had a bird book.
27:14
There's a thing in England.
27:14
I think it's other places, too, called the Observer's Book of Birds. >> Bird Watcher. >> Yeah. It's a little handbook. >> Epic.
27:24
>> Just you stick it in your pocket.
27:24
And so I would go around and see, oh, that bird or it nests in places like this.
27:32
So yeah, I like all that. >> Yeah.
27:36
>> And uh so I would do that down Dungeon Lane.
27:38
That would be my sort of thing.
27:38
Um and I was, as I say, walking along one day in these two kind of big Liverpool scallies.
27:47
Uh you know, they said, "What you doing? looking at, you know.
27:50
So, we had a little encounter.
27:54
He said, "Give us that watch."
27:56
I said, halfheartedly tried to resist, but they were big.
28:00
And uh there was two of them.
28:04
So, yeah, I ended up >> This is So, not too far away from this guy, right? >> Giving them Yeah.
28:10
No, this bit younger than this guy. Younger than that guy. >> Yeah.
28:15
>> That was me and John going to um Paris on a hitchhiking trip. Wow. >> Yeah.
28:21
And so that was the start we started in uh the center of Liverpool. Yeah.
28:27
So these these all found their way into um and and the guys that nicked my watch. >> Yeah.
28:35
>> Unfortunately for them, I knew them.
28:35
I knew I knew one of them. I knew where he lived.
28:39
So I kind of went to the cops said, "I got my watch."
28:42
And uh they necked him >> and I got my watch back.
28:48
Do you ever see him again? >> No. I hope not.
28:54
>> No, I He wasn't wasn't anyone I really knew.
28:57
He just lived in the next road, Old Bridge Road. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
29:01
>> And I lived in Ardick Road.
29:01
But so when I say the boys of Dungeon Lane, I'm thinking of those two boys. >> Yeah.
29:09
>> Whereas then it's it splits out and it sort of spreads.
29:12
See the boys of Dungeon Lane.
29:15
Well, it could be anyone from that area.
29:18
>> And then, you know, the next line is some of them will feel the pain, but some were meant for more.
29:23
So, you know, that's like the guys who nick my watch, I hope they feel the pain, and I hope we were meant for more.
29:34
>> The fight is so important, isn't it, to achieving your dreams at a young age.
29:38
taking that ambition that you have to prove something >> either the kids who tried to take you took your stuff or the people in your own house who don't count you out whatever like >> that juice is crucial isn't it sounds like all four of you in your own way had
29:52
that fight >> yeah no that was very important for us um because you know like if we didn't like a song we were trying not to do it and we had quite a a sort of good vision of who we wanted to Um, and then the personalities were pretty strong personalities >> individually. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.
30:16
>> I'm still like that, you know.
30:16
I think Ringo's still like that. >> Yeah.
30:20
>> Don't mess with Ringo. >> No. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Why? People say, "Why is he?" Cuz he's Ringo. >> Yeah.
30:26
>> You know, he's just >> Yeah. >> himself.
30:28
And again, you know, he had a lot of um problems when he was a kid.
30:30
He was very ill when he was very young, three I think.
30:37
And his mom was told he might not live.
30:40
And so he had all of that sort of stuff.
30:42
And didn't go to school much, you know, because of all of that.
30:46
So again, you know, it's he's built a sort of shield.
30:49
I think we all get shields, but people who've had a harder time than I did.
30:56
Um, you know, I was had a pretty good time up until my mom died when I was 14.
31:02
But yeah, no, Reno is still very much his own man, which is a great thing if you can keep that alive.
31:12
that alive. You know, >> it sounds to me like you experienced that even though you've known him most of his life and one of and they were the only person alive who could even share what you've had to these are incredible experiences and yet the story that you know I heard you tell about the making
31:27
of this song you know on the album the two of you do a duet on >> was like you know having to sort of say no no I want you to sing these lines that was kind of cute really but we'd sort of written it here in this room actually >> with him in mind this is home to It's home to us. It's what it's called. It's what it's called. Yeah. >> Yeah.
31:46
It had all started because Andrew Andrew W who I was working with whose studio we're in by the way if I may just say thank you for letting us come this.
31:54
This is a little B studio. >> That's right.
31:56
>> Um where we did a lot of the work and uh Ringo knew that I'd worked with Andrew and we'd done one track which is the opening track of the album called As You Lie There.
32:07
So he went over to see Andrew.
32:10
Then I was working with Andrew and I said, "You remember that Ringo came over and did some drumming, didn't he?" He says, "Yeah." I said, "Let's hear it."
32:19
So we got it up and uh I said, "Oh, it's good.
32:22
It's nice druming because Ringo."
32:25
Um so I said, "We should write a song around that." >> Yeah. >> We had some time.
32:30
So we did it and uh I wrote the words about where we both came from.
32:40
I came from a place in speak.
32:40
He came from a place called the dingle. >> Yeah.
32:46
>> And it was poor living, you know, looking back on it now.
32:48
Um I would have to say that nobody had any money and the houses were were pretty rough.
32:59
But we didn't know any better and it was cool.
33:02
So we had friends, we had mates, we had uncles and aunties and all that stuff.
33:06
>> So you were on that level and you enjoyed it, you know.
33:10
So anyway, um I knew that Ringo had been through that like I've been through it.
33:17
So the song sort of says, you know, it might have been a bit rough where we live, but it was home to us. >> Yeah.
33:24
>> You know, so we did it.
33:24
I put the vocal on it as a guide vocal for Ringo and then we sent it over to him and I said, "You're gonna would you sing on this?"
33:36
You know, thinking he'll just replace my vocal. >> Yeah.
33:40
>> Um but he didn't get the idea.
33:40
He sort of said he sang on it a little bit the chorus.
33:45
>> It's harmonies >> just a tiny bit.
33:48
>> So I rang him back up and said, "Uh, you know, didn't you didn't you like it?
33:54
Didn't you want to sing the whole thing?
33:55
I didn't think you wanted me to. You know what I mean? >> This is hilarious.
33:57
These are two guys have known each other their whole life.
34:00
Still circling one another trying to figure out how to get it done. >> It's life, baby. That's true.
34:03
That's how people do it, you know. >> Yeah. Yeah.
34:07
>> Anyway, I said, "No, no, no.
34:07
I'd love you to sing the whole thing."
34:09
So, he did very nicely >> and then it suddenly became obvious that we could I could take a line. He could take a line.
34:18
So we have the first Paul and Ringo duet >> which speaks to his reticence to some degree because it's never happened before. So >> that's true.
34:28
And it was never a John and Ringo track.
34:30
It was never a George and Ringo track.
34:33
>> I know you probably don't think too much about the whatifs of what could have been. >> Yeah.
34:36
>> But when you think about the lack of interactivity you had as friends and as creatives once you were no longer a band, are you any close to understanding sort of why that was?
34:45
why there wasn't more opportunity for you to kind of do things together, do you think?
34:50
>> No, I mean, I think we knew, you know, we we'd finished >> and we'd all said, "It's full circle. This is great."
34:56
John was off with his life with Yoko, which was you couldn't say, "Would you mind coming back and we'll do a bit more Beatles?"
35:05
I wouldn't have put that to him, you know.
35:08
I could see what he was doing, you know.
35:10
It was a a different life.
35:11
And I was too with Linda, you know, we would do, you know, would you play drums on this for me?
35:20
Would you play bass on this for me? Would you sing on this?
35:22
Would you do bits and pieces?
35:23
So, it was great to get round to it in the end. >> Yeah.
35:28
>> On this, you know, and uh >> Yeah, >> we sound a bit similar. >> We do.
35:32
>> So, it's you've got to figure it out who's me first. Ringo sec. >> Yeah. >> Me third. Yeah.
35:38
But uh I'm really glad we did it.
35:41
Once it became a duet, I thought that's a great thing.
35:44
Suddenly after all that time we've known each other, it's another gift.
35:51
And suddenly we've got a track together.
35:55
No one is to blame for the days we left behind. The days we left behind. >> I love the song. We too.
36:09
And I love the feel and the sound of it.
36:11
And um you know what was telling me and and I'd love you to elaborate that that there's some original equipment being used in that.
36:19
And so it wasn't just about going through these one wonderful photos and memories of your mind.
36:22
It was also like hey, I've got some >> Yeah, that's right.
36:26
You know, it starts to sound when we're talking like this that it's just a total nostalgia album at all.
36:33
>> There are a few tracks that go back.
36:33
I talk about my parents in one of the tracks.
36:38
Um, but no, there's a lot of sort of love songs and and things that aren't looking back.
36:43
Now, with We Too, we were in my home studio in Sussex. >> Yeah.
36:49
>> Andrew had come over to do some work with me there and um I was showing them around and I've got quite a nice selection of stuff there.
36:58
Um amongst which is the big studa machine the fourtrack studa machine which is what we made all the early Beatles well one the first Beatles sing was not not even that grand just a little two track. Yes.
37:15
So we had this four track studio to four track and I still have one and I keep it up.
37:23
Well, I don't but my engineers uh and we love it, you know, occasionally we'll use it.
37:29
And Andrew said, "Could we use a commission?" said, "Yeah, sure."
37:34
You know, let's do think of something to do on it.
37:35
So, um we put together this song uh We Too >> and um recorded it on that.
37:43
And the thing I think we loved the most about it was the snare drum sound. >> That's great.
37:52
That's a good That's >> Yeah, it's meaty. >> Yeah.
37:55
And you know, I'd talked to engineers in the past and sort of said, "Why is it that?"
38:00
Said, "Well, it's cuz it's fat tape."
38:04
>> I said, "It's that simple."
38:07
>> I thought I thought it'd be something more complicated.
38:08
No, if you get thin tape, you get thin sound.
38:13
>> But anyway, so we did it.
38:13
We had a lot of fun doing that. Um, yeah.
38:15
So that that that snare drum is a good snare drum sound.
38:24
>> It's amazing snare drum sound.
38:24
I love the guitar line on that song.
38:26
I just love how it brings just a dark whisfulness to it.
38:29
Floats up and down and in and out.
38:31
And you can hear the two of you obviously laying everything down, printing everything, committing to everything.
38:36
It just feels committed >> that song in a really lovely way.
38:40
>> And with the four track, you've got to wipe things. Yeah.
38:44
>> Cuz there's only four tracks and you may want to do eight things. >> Yeah.
38:47
So, you know, not many people know, but you you take two tracks where you've got, let's say, drums and bass, and you reduce them to one track, which frees up these tracks.
38:59
So, you can keep recording, >> but you're on the hook for these things.
39:04
You can't change anything.
39:05
>> But that's that's actually a great thing. >> Yeah.
39:08
>> You know, I say to young bands and nowadays, don't rely too much on the sort of gadgetry.
39:15
just play it all, learn it all, write it all because it's better.
39:21
>> But you love the gadgetry, too.
39:21
I mean, you know, fireman. I mean, come on.
39:22
We got I love how you dabble on these. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. No, I do. I I like it.
39:27
But I think the thing is what will happen is a lot of people rely on it. >> Yeah.
39:34
>> So, you get records that sound like they've been made by >> gadgets.
39:37
So, you know, I don't like that.
39:40
But I do like to use I I like odd things. I like tape loops.
39:47
>> I like to to work with tape loops.
39:47
And again, Brian Eno in your interview with this.
39:55
>> He starts talking about tape loops.
39:55
I'm thinking, Brian, you're nicking all my ideas.
39:59
Tomorrow never knows before you were born.
40:02
This is a serious celebrity death match we got on our hands right here between the two. if you're listening.
40:11
>> No, it's um I as I was watching the interview just because I like Brian >> Yeah. >> and his music. >> Yeah.
40:18
>> Anyway, so yeah, I I love messing with tape loops cuz it's sort of freeing. >> Yeah. Yeah.
40:25
>> I hate it when making music starts to feel like work. >> Has to occasionally.
40:32
>> You can't always just feel good.
40:36
Sometimes you're slogging away on a part, you know.
40:38
God, I wish I'd never written this thing.
40:42
>> But um that's that's not the normal thing. Normally it's it's nice.
40:47
>> That's where you need Andrew. What?
40:47
And people to come in there and be like, "Don't let it go." Like it's there. >> Yeah. >> It's waiting for you.
40:54
>> Andrew is very enthusiastic, you know?
40:56
So he's he's good to work with like that. >> Yeah.
40:59
>> He'll uh keep things going. >> Yeah.
41:01
Um how does music step away from the themes of the record for a second?
41:05
just talk about you as a music fan cuz one of the things that I really love is the fact that much like your friend Elton and others you remain really into music as a experience not just the music you make but >> you love going and seeing shows your
41:18
wife loves to go and see shows you know it's cool like >> how curious are you still to this day about what people are making >> yeah I I think uh you know like a lot of people if you hear of someone um and they're going to play live Yeah. >> And you're there in this room with all
41:44
>> And you're there in this room with all these people and there's the artist >> you say Bruce Springsteen or somebody and he's playing and it's like oh he's really doing it and I don't know there's something special about that for me.
41:56
So so I like going to quite a few concerts and seeing who's doing what.
42:00
has anybody that's releasing music now at the start or at the peak of their experience really impressed you, you know, that you're a fan of that you that you draw to to listen to um that's making music now or even just a scene or a vibe that you're really appreciating at the moment. >> Yeah.
42:17
I'll go to festivals >> and there I'll see um like Bono's son Eli and Hispanic. >> I think they're good.
42:27
So, I I like to, you know, check them out and sort of see >> what's going on.
42:33
But, I mean, it could be anyone.
42:36
And I don't really keep a list of who it is, you know, but I like watching people um make music.
42:42
I also like checking out other kinds of music.
42:50
Like, I've recently just got into a lot of African music, >> Sagal, and and sort of stuff like that.
42:56
And it's like, wow, that really is where the blues came from. >> Yeah.
43:00
>> You know, that's fascinating.
43:02
>> I went to Marley once with some musicians and we we we went into a bar on the side of the road and we were there till 2:00 in the morning sitting on beer crates watching these this band plays.
43:10
There was a kid on the drums who was literally been playing for like 6 hours. He was a kid. >> Yeah.
43:14
>> And we all walked away and we were like, "No one in this group is ever going to be as good as what we just saw."
43:18
It was like super sobering for everybody there.
43:21
Yeah, my best experience of that was a fellout live.
43:28
>> That was insane at his place, the African shrine >> and um I wasn't going to get wasted but cuz it was very much the thing to do with with fella.
43:41
with with fella. I was with Ginger Baker too and uh I was trying to resist and I was sort of saying it's okay guys the guys were coming up like you know and he had offering joints out you know and I was saying okay I'm good I'm good thank
43:58
you you know so I was doing very well and then this pivotal moment came and the guy went up to Ginger and Ginger takes a smoke yeah great he's smoking away fella comes over to him claps an arm around him he says Ginger bear The only man I know never refuse a smoke. So I go,
44:15
So I go, >> "You're on the line." >> I said, "Yeah, okay. I'll have one." >> And I got wrecked.
44:27
Wrecked, paranoid, the whole thing.
44:27
And so I was in a state until his band came on and then they just hit this riff that I still remember.
44:38
>> And it was it was incredible.
44:38
And I just wept just and that was experience you know I could never forget.
44:47
Like I say I still know the riff and the band kicked in and it was like whoa.
45:01
>> You know it does end in a in a beautiful way.
45:03
There's two songs um starting with um Salesman Saint which I know again just to reiterate this is a beautiful modern sounding record but there are some really key moments of reflection and it's lovely hearing you pay tribute to the environment that your parents were in as they were trying to honor their responsibility as parents.
45:23
>> These were dangerous and difficult times I think to be a parent.
45:25
When you think about in in my case World War II, when when you think about it now, >> this war that was really going on, my dad was a fireman in Liverpool and they were sending these firebombs down in century homes, uh, and my mom was a nurse, you know, so they were going through it, fearing for their lives every day pretty much.
45:49
And I can't imagine what that's like.
45:52
I don't think our generation can.
45:54
Um, our children, I love the way I'm lumping you. >> Thank you. >> Young people like us. >> I'll take it. >> No.
46:03
So, I I occasionally will think, "Wow, you know, wait a minute.
46:06
How could you keep positive with all that going on?"
46:11
A lot of people didn't, of course, but my mom and dad did.
46:13
So, I always give them sort of credit in my own mind for finding their way through that.
46:19
And so I was writing a song in a minory kind of key >> and um that became the subject of the song.
46:30
You know, >> I love the Glenn Miller horns.
46:31
It blows my mind how the different time signatures reveal themselves over time.
46:36
>> It feels to me at first like you've made the horns fit into the more four on the floor type thing, but then at the end I realize, no, they're dancing with each other and it's where did you record those horns >> in Abby Road? >> They sound amazing.
46:47
Yeah, they they really um came off.
46:50
Uh, I think, you know, you got to get the arrangement right.
46:54
And, um, this guy Ben Foster is a really good arranger and he I said, I want it to sound like, you know, it's coming off the radio >> 1940s or something >> and um, so it does and as you say, yeah, the songs in three, but it's also when you put four against it. >> Yeah. >> That's very African.
47:18
You hear a African music doing that a lot. Yeah.
47:31
So, so I'm I'm fascinated by that. Wait a minute.
47:33
Three four against four foot four foot. That's great.
47:35
Shouldn't make sense, but that's what happens in the song.
47:39
>> My last question about the more effective sides as we draw the end of this chat.
47:43
Um, your mother was not alive to see you go on to achieve wonderful things with the Beatles.
47:52
>> Um, the transition into Wings still the first half of your life trying to figure out what you want to do, you know what I mean?
47:58
And how far you want to take this thing.
47:59
But your father was he did see it occur. >> Yeah.
48:04
>> And and he got to experience it.
48:04
just to come off the back of the of the song, how did he absorb that experience that you were going through and and how did how did he see it?
48:15
How did he feel about who you were becoming and what you were achieving?
48:19
>> Well, I think he loved it.
48:19
He had been a musician in the 1920s, so the roaring 20s, you know, he'd been one of those guys, so he'd been looking for fame himself.
48:35
Um, so when we got it, he loved it.
48:35
We'd be in a restaurant, you know, and he'd be look checking out the people and, you know, he'd say, "They've got you."
48:49
I kind of, "Dad, dad," you know, he liked it, you know, he he he liked that I'd achieved what he had tried to achieve.
49:01
>> So, I think he enjoyed it, which was good.
49:03
Where uh does it go from here?
49:03
I mean, I would say you're touring. You're always touring.
49:06
I mean, I feel there's always an opportunity.
49:08
You're looking for a place to go and play some shows and keep the band moving.
49:10
We got to experience that.
49:12
Thank you for that at Apple. That was wonderful.
49:15
>> That was really great.
49:15
That was I mean, cuz I'd never been to Certino.
49:17
I didn't know what that was when I got my first iPhone, >> which Steve Jobs had given me cuz we had a bit of friendship, you I didn't know him too well, >> but he gave me the iPhone and I kept seeing Certino cuz it was like the home base of it anyway.
49:36
So to show up there and to do the concert >> Yeah.
49:41
>> for all the tech bros. >> It's so funny.
49:47
We're the most untech bro company in the world. But it's brilliant.
49:50
This is like you think you are.
49:53
I played I played to you.
49:53
Believe me, you're tech bros. And it was good. It was good.
50:00
Um, but it was a different audience to what we're used to. >> Yeah, of course.
50:05
It was really appreciated by everybody in attendance and it was a moment they'll never forget, you know, for sure. >> Yeah. No, it was great.
50:11
It was a lovely evening and um Tim Cook was very pleased.
50:16
He before he showed me around the the donut. It is. Yeah, it's amazing.
50:22
So this album uh is is a beautiful beautiful body of work.
50:26
You know, where are you now?
50:28
Where is your where's your creative creativity now?
50:31
>> Well, you know, I mean, I'm always at the same place, you know, heading to the future, you know.
50:34
I'm always >> listening to music at the moment cuz I'm putting this album out. >> Yeah.
50:42
>> I'm not desperate to write, but I know that once the album's out that I'll I'll see a guitar, you know.
50:48
I mean, I am writing stuff, you know, but it's not um I don't I don't feel the pressure that I'm I've got to make another album.
50:59
>> This one will do for a while.
51:01
>> I mean, there's a guitar there if you fancy.
51:02
I mean, look, I'm just saying I understand, you know, you just pick up, you know, one chord is all it takes.
51:06
>> That is uh strung for the left.
51:06
I feel >> it is left handed.
51:09
That's what happened with uh Andrew. >> Yeah.
51:14
>> Oh, that's how it starts. So, that was the story.
51:18
I said I I said to him, "I wish I could show you something on guitar."
51:22
And he says, "Well, I've got a guitar."
51:24
I said, "No, I'm left-handed."
51:26
So, and being Andrew, he said, "I've got a left-handed."
51:29
>> He strung that one left-handed for you today. He said, >> "Yeah."
51:34
>> So, I said, "Well, yeah, sometimes I just take them the weirdest chord.
51:35
Just take any old chord."
51:38
And I I'd never played this chord before.
51:41
I still actually don't know what it's called. >> Yeah.
51:46
>> So, I said, "There you go. That's sort of crazy."
51:48
And then just change that one note and then so it's like a a three chord sequence, you know. So we were off.
52:02
Once you got that far, you can't stop.
52:07
So we uh yeah, we just just kept uh kept working.
52:12
>> Can't wait for you to play your next chord.
52:15
>> I probably don't know the next chord.
52:15
I mean, I I know certain things, but once you recorded them, you don't necessarily retain them, >> you know, like so that's like the opening to days you left behind. That's beautiful. Yeah.
52:41
So, uh, yeah, we will, you know, be learning that with the band. I'll learn >> Yeah. >> how it goes. Listen to it. >> But that's fun.
52:50
So, that's I mean, I'm very lucky cuz like I write stuff and that's good fun. >> Yeah.
52:58
>> Um, and when you've written something that you like, it's a great feeling. >> Yeah.
53:03
>> And I record, which is again, that can be great, you know, recording and putting all the stuff together.
53:08
So that's two areas that I'm involved in that I love.
53:14
>> And then you go and play it live.
53:14
So that's like three >> different jobs really in the one world of music, you know.
53:22
So I feel very lucky to have those cuz if one of them gets a bit boring, you can switch to the other one.
53:30
>> Briano said something very similar to me in an interview I did with him. Almost identical.
53:34
>> He's taking all my lines. This guy