it has been a journey for you and the music is very truthful and that's something I really responded to when I heard the music that you that you were about to release and in particular these these two songs um and we're going to talk about the significance of these songs.
It's clear to me that you know you've found a way to get that harmony by being as honest as you can in music is the vehicle in which you get to do that. Mhm.
>> I think one of the things that we've always become very kind of um uh aware of when someone is very successful in their own right as a musician and as an artist is that we become very attached to their relationship with their music.
>> But what was the role of music in your house?
Like I've always wondered in a in a home where your dad >> is so successful for entertaining and creating songs that move so many people.
What was his relationship like with music when you were growing up? >> Always around.
It was always I had a lot of early exposure.
And typically usually when I do these things, if I'm asked questions, I'll usually give the answers that I give every single time.
And it's funny because some people will respond and be like, "Oh, she lifts the lid on on secrecy."
And it's like, no, I actually answered that on Steo's podcast four or five years ago, and I'll usually say the same thing.
Um, and the same thing usually is I grew up with Chaikoski, I grew up with Beethoven, I grew up with Mozart, I grew up with a lot of amazing classical music, I grew up with the with the Beatles catalog.
>> Um, but there were also certain songs that, you know, I would hear, God, I wish I wrote this, and it would be like If You Could Read My Mind by Gordon Lightoot, or it' be a song by the Mamas and Papa.
>> And it really was everything.
There was a lot of Bill Withers.
It was a lot of Frank Sinatra.
It was a lot of just some of the most innovated souls that music has ever seen.
And um the thing that stuck out the most was the effect these sonics and lyrics had on the nervous system, on the mind, on the heart.
M >> just this like deep love and passion for it which I do believe is is contagious. >> Oh yeah.
>> It's extremely contagious. >> It's magic.
It's math and it's magic. >> Did you feel that?
>> Cuz when I was growing up and my mom would play certain music, I could tell she could see I was responding to it.
>> So she would lean in and play it a little more than she probably wanted to >> cuz she liked the idea that it was changing. my DNA. >> Oh, yeah.
I remember being in the in the Middle East when I was a kid and um I remember really loving because I heard it in like a kids film uh Sugar Sugar [laughter] and I remember loving it and he was so humored by how much I loved it and he was like, "Yeah, it's a good song."
And then he got it for me on CD and I could listen to it on my little CD player and and um there was this encouragement for like, "Oh, you like this?
Okay, here's here's some more."
Yeah, >> you know, which is just feeding that.
And I remember, you know, little tests here and there, and this is also something I haven't really shared of >> it would be somewhere in like a hotel and he [clears throat] would test me and see if I could match pitch. >> Wow.
>> And when I did, he'd like smile >> and I'd be like, "Oh, I did it right."
like I you know like it's just this everyone wants approval from their parents but just if I got it right it was just like this okay I did it you know and and uh >> yeah I didn't learn how to harmonize at at such a young age but I learned how to match pitch for the most part.
Yeah, it's it's a really lovely memory as well to know that um at some point in the all too brief time, if I may say, that you got to spend with someone who's very important to you, that they recognized that you were interested in it and it was taking a hold of you in some way, shape, or form.
>> Um, when did you discover music for yourself?
What was your first record that you knew when you showed up at school or at your friend's house >> that that was that was yours?
That was your badge of honor.
>> I've had different phases with it.
I've definitely had you know like Mly Crew was one of the first bands that you know as an angsty teenager I discovered and was like oh this is mine.
But there's still some kind of separation because it was introduced to me by like a boy.
>> And there were certain bands like the Smashing Pumpkins and Nirvana that I kind of was able to kind of claim for my own because those were ones that I discovered by my own research.
>> Um, and there have been, but then there were also some songs that like I discovered um a Manchester Orchestra song, one of their bigger ones, I can feel a hot one, when I was like 14.
And I remember that one having such a profound effect on my heart and I would like listen to it as I went to sleep.
And that band has continued to just be one of my, you know, in my top three for for a long time.
Um, but having like albums that I'm like, "Oh, this just is it."
Uh, would be like some Radio Head albums and some Bright Eyes albums.
Yeah, >> those were those were and those didn't come until a little bit later, but that was just like this >> once Tom Gets You.
[sighs and gasps] >> It's really hard to like and and like I have I have moments with Radio Head.
There are songs I I can't put on unless I'm ready >> to go there. >> For sure.
>> Like Daydream is one of them. >> Mhm.
>> Videotape is one of them.
You know these ones where Tom is just like >> I was playing video tape in the car on my way over here. hell. Bad song.
>> I [clears throat] was slower to get to that album. >> Everyone was.
But but boy >> and then when it hit >> they always [laughter] do. They always do.
Can you imagine what it must be like being a radio head song?
If you give a radio head song an actual physical cuz I believe songs are physical ultimately live their life.
They've got little they're off meeting all the people all the time, living multiple millions of lives at simultaneously, right?
And and sharing and creating connection.
Imagine being a Radio Head song and just like sitting there patiently waiting for the world to catch up to you.
>> It's like a It's like a It's a much more condensed version, I imagine, of like Van Go's life. >> If I had to Yes.
>> give a, you know, visual representation. >> Yeah.
Van Go's like, "Wow, come on guys. Come on. Anytime now, please. Please." >> Yeah. Totally. [laughter] Totally.
But there's but and that is funny, but there's just so much um cathosis and joy in that music too once you get through the sadness of it.
And I think that brings us in a really nice way cuz music will always show me and us the way um to these to these two songs.
You know, >> there is a body of work that is very recently released um which is a beautiful synopsis of where you've been and where you are at that moment in time.
But you're not wasting any time.
You've got two these two songs, your most personal songs, I think, today.
Certainly in a certain time in your life. >> Oh, yeah. For sure.
>> And I I would like to just start the conversation by asking you um why you decided to release these two songs now before we even talk about what they mean to you and get into the creativity of them.
Why why the significance of this day and why these two songs?
Um, >> and you can take as long as you need to figure that because that's a big question. >> Yeah. No, it is.
And and and it and it's very layered and it's very I'm like, how do I answer this in a condensed way?
>> Well, we can figure it out together. >> Yeah.
So, The Breeze I wrote in probably 2021 and recorded a version of it with Andy Hall and Robert McDow from Manchester Orchestra.
They did my first record with me and we we did a whole batch of songs uh together that >> we ended up not putting out.
And then earlier this year, I wrote the other one.
>> And that they fit so well together and that they're both Hey, let's have a let's have a chat.
Um, and I I didn't really feel like one could be released without the other.
M >> as far as the the day I chose to do it, it's uh my album cover is tongue and cheek.
I really like tongue and cheek stuff.
The birthday thing is is a tongue and cheek thing because you know song number two is about parasocial relationships and this kind of we can get into the lyrics but [clears throat] >> you know the idea of a blood packed a one-way bloodpacked one-sided >> that you didn't sign up for.
Well, it's I have been every year um on my dad's, you know, birthday or whatever I if I don't post something on Instagram on [clears throat] um on social media, >> it means I hate him. It means I resent him.
It means I don't love him.
>> And there are two realities.
There's the reality of personally knowing him and having grown up in the same household as him.
And then there's the reality of like never having met him and not knowing what the internal family dynamic was.
And the truth is we didn't celebrate his birthday.
He wouldn't let us celebrate his birthday.
And he had no interest in celebrating his birthday. >> And you tried. >> Yeah.
I mean, he just wasn't interested in it. And I don't know.
There there's there's this combination of being like, "Okay, you want me to do something for his birthday here?" Like, "Fuck you."
And then there's this other side of it that is just I don't know.
I guess I just want to be honest and I I'm I feel like I've kind of been nagged to open up a little bit more.
And so I'd like to kind of do an asked and answered thing with this >> so that I don't have to keep feeling like I need to defend myself on the internet or feeling like I need to explain my personal relationships.
Um which which people have to do all the time.
If there's two celebrities that are dating each other, they have to explain away their relationships.
They have to just it's I'm not interested in that. >> Yeah.
>> You know, >> you know, we're going to listen to the these songs.
Um, I just want to say as well that it's not lost on me that maybe maybe I don't know, maybe I'm just like reaching here, but you know, for someone who didn't ever like celebrating his birthday, you've finally got a chance to celebrate his [laughter] birthday >> in a way that I I would I would like to think would make him giggle.
I would like to think that there's a little bit of a like, >> all right, like you like looking down at me like you're a little you're a little >> Fine. >> Okay. Yeah. Yeah.
Can we listen to the breeze? Yeah, >> please.
[sighs and gasps] >> It's great writing. It's great honest work. >> Thank you.
>> That is um there's a lot to talk about in that in that piece of music, >> you know, because you've been honest and courageous enough to share it.
And um let's start with at the end >> and let's talk about the voice note and um what would you like to share about that?
I mean I could I could ask specific questions about where that was and how long you've had that and where and all that stuff, but it's yours.
You've given it to everybody now to listen to.
It's it's the most probably the most intimate moment you're going to hear of your dad having a conversation with you even just for that brief time.
So, let's talk a little bit about that and why you chose to put it on.
And >> yeah, that was that was taken from a home video um on like a little camcorder that my oldest brother owned.
Um and they would take turns just filming everything.
and uh he had the camcorder.
He was and my brother came over a couple years ago and was like showing me a lot of the stuff >> that he had just hours and hours of footage and uh that was one of the things we were just me and my older brother were sitting on the bed. We were watching TV.
My dad comes over and I'm just like in my own world distracted by the tube.
Uh we rarely got to watch >> TV.
It was like if it was probably a weekend where we were given one or two hours to watch it.
>> And so I was very sucked in.
It was cartoons, probably Transformers or something.
And um yeah, he's just like, "I love you, Paris. I love you, Bears."
>> I look over and I'm like, "I love you."
[laughter] Immediately, you know, go back to my show and of course there's that like you dumb little girl.
That's a very special moment.
You're so distracted by the by the TV.
And I don't know, I think we we take certain things for granted when we're little.
>> Um >> Oh, it's hard to take things for granted when you have no idea what's what's what's coming.
I mean, it's >> that's you just all you can do is sit in your moment at that age and appreciate the fact you even acknowledge that moment and and reciprocate it is is it's special.
I mean, >> you know, >> there's a a a voice, there's a transition from you as a mature adult, someone who's figuring out who you are and want to be for the rest of your life.
It transitions into a young voice about twothirds of the way through the song. >> Yeah.
>> Who is that and what is the significance of that?
Well, first of all, I try not to beat myself up too too bad about that one moment because most of the time if my brothers were off running and playing, I wanted to spend all my time with my dad.
Um, and I think there there definitely has always been a part of me that like was so enamored and like couldn't get enough.
>> And so I have lots of memories like that that kind of balance it all out.
>> Um, but I had my goddaughter Isabella come in and and sing.
We were in the studio and it wasn't a part of the plan.
So I I had originally done these songs with with Andy and Rob.
>> And then when I wrote the other one, it was like, "Okay, well, we got to get in the studio.
We have to make it cohesive.
So we should do it all in the same studio.
We should do it all with the same, you know, engineer [clears throat] and just so that it all sounds, you know, like a good pair."
>> And as we were like wrapping up the song, um, I was just sitting on the couch.
My best friend had come in for a second.
She was the one that shot my my album cover. Mhm.
>> I [snorts] was just sitting there and I got this little like ping and I don't know if it was from >> an affirmation.
>> I don't know if it was from the the universe or God or my dad or my higher self or whatever the woowoo belief is cuz I believe in like most of them.
>> Uh something was like Isabella. >> Mhm.
And I I like sat there for a second and I'm like, "Nah, it's too last minute.
Like, we've only got a few more hours here in the studio. She's probably with her. I don't know."
You know, I'm sitting there for like maybe two minutes just debating it in my head.
And I'm like, "Yeah, it."
So, I get up and I walk walk outside and I I call her mom. Her mom doesn't pick up. I call the stepdad.
He He's like He's like, "Yeah, what's up?"
I was like, "Where's where's Isabella right now?"
And he's like, "Oh, she's with she's with her dad."
And I was like, "All right, cool.
Hang up [laughter] the phone." I called the dad.
I was like, "What are you guys doing right now?"
And he's like, "We're sitting on the couch watching TV."
And I was like, "Can you be in Eagle Rock within the next couple hours?"
And he's like, "Well, we're in Roondo Beach, but yeah, we could probably be there in like an hour and a half." I'm like, "Perfect."
And and she comes and and she just lays down these perfect vocals.
And at first it was going to be I think maybe just the second song doing some background vocals.
And then as they were on their way over, I was like, "She needs to sing with me."
and we got her vocals down and it was so beautiful and I was crying in the studio.
Her dad was crying in the studio.
She started crying in the studio.
It was this very beautiful experience and uh she's the same age that I was when my dad died. She's 11.
>> So there was this weird just synchronicities that were that were occurring and it all just felt so like [sighs and gasps] divinely timed.
um if you believe in that.
And yeah, we have we have some some footage of us in the studio and I'm like hugging her crying uh and in the in the process of of comping vocals and stuff.
We're listening back listening back and she was singing with me the entire time in that in that last section and I kept thinking about it and I'm like let's take my vocals out.
let's make them blend together until mine are gone >> and then you can bring them back in in the very end.
And that ended up being perfect.
>> Yeah, it's um one of those moments when you listen to the lyrics and you hear what you're saying where it's there life is full of so many things that remain unanswered. >> Mh.
>> And the fragility of it all, right?
This idea of like the the perishable experience of life, right?
you know, um, if you're lucky, you live this long healthy life, you get to serve your curiosities in good measure and feel pretty pretty pretty good checked out.
That's that's a blessing, right?
But doesn't always work out that way.
And you know that better than anybody.
I mean, >> you know, through no [snorts] sort of responsibility of your own, your life has been has been on pathways and all kinds of interesting twists and turns.
And so, it feels to me like you're addressing some of that in the lyrics that you've kind of accepted that there's the mortality of things. Mhm.
>> The idea that things nothing lasts forever, >> but you also kind of want to believe that somewhere along the way the energy can exist or the spirit can exist. Is that fair to say?
>> I mean, I think I I think what really sparked the idea to write the song to begin with was this really beautiful poem that Andy showed me.
>> Uh I think it's called Autumn Leaves or Gold Leaves.
And it basically talks about like a person who spent his entire life in search for God.
>> Uh only to find out at the very end of his life that it was there the entire time.
And it talks about the million masks of God.
>> And >> he ended up Andy ended up naming one of his mansions orchestra records the million mask of of God because of that that record.
And and that poem was just really really beautiful and um it got me thinking about like my own spirituality and my own conscious contact with my higher power and you know really started this spiritual journey of understanding that everything is higher power.
Everything is divinely timed.
Everything is for a reason.
And um I also do believe in energies.
I do believe that, you know, once it's over, it's not really over. >> Yeah.
I've had moments in my life, for sure, where people who I love very much have moved have moved on and um >> you feel them. >> You feel them.
I've also had, you know, friends that I've lost to addiction and I have other family members and and >> it's >> I don't know.
I mean, I'm sure science can explain away like looking for because we're human beings and we're designed to look for patterning and whatever, but like I've had some pretty unexplainable experiences and I believe what I believe and >> and I think that that energy >> is there when I when I see a butterfly, hi daddy.
Like I there's just little things, >> you know. >> I agree.
And I think it I think also they manifest themselves into things that ultimately speak your language.
I think we all really try to create commonality amongst each other in every way.
We try to align our own beliefs with other people's beliefs and force their beliefs into our beliefs and blah blah blah.
But it's like, you know, for me almost every time it's happened, it's happened through the rhythm and magic and math of music.
>> Like I've lost someone really careful and then something's happened.
I'm like that song met that time frame met that moment and that thing and that bird and I'm like whoa I I'm fully aware.
>> Like I'm really like I'm available. I'm aware. I get it. Thank you. >> Yeah, >> it's real.
>> Yeah, if we're open to it.
[snorts] >> If we're open to it.
Um, the bag pipes at the end.
>> Yeah, that So, that was really exciting.
So, >> by the way, justice for bag pipes and pop songs, please.
Can we Can we please >> Yeah.
>> The idea of of bag pipes having to just be constantly >> Yeah.
uh like you know somebody who can't play them when they're played beautifully and this was played beautifully. >> Mhm.
>> It it brings a very emotive feeling into the experience.
>> So real fun fact about the bag pipe process.
[laughter] >> Words you never thought you were ever going to say in in a conversation.
>> You know at this point what it's my life really. >> Okay.
Welcome to fun facts about bag.
>> The most absurd things have just flown out of my mouth just in life.
Um, so we when I was in the studio with Annie and Rob back in 2021, >> there aren't like bagpipe settings on like a melatron situ.
Like there aren't that's just not an option.
>> So what we ended up doing was we downloaded a a bagpipe app on my phone.
>> Can I download this bag?
>> There's multiple, by the way.
>> And we found the right one. And then sampled it.
[laughter] sampled it >> to to hit the notes that we wanted to hit.
And then when I was in the process of re-recording this song, >> Yeah.
>> we uh my friend Jeff who manages Drop Kick Murphy's was like, "Yeah, I know a bag pipe guy."
[laughter] >> So we we we hit up his bag pipe guy.
>> You got to go to Boston and get your bag pipe guy. >> Straight up.
He was literally Campbell was in Boston.
We sent him the song and he's like, "Yeah, I can record it and send you the stems this weekend.
I'm about to go on tour again.
So, like this is the ID wheel.
It was perfect timing again. Divine timing.
>> And he's like, "Little little problem though.
Uh, my bag pipes don't play in the key of your song, which I believe is G." >> Yeah.
>> And he's like, "You have to autotune >> the bag pipes."
[laughter] >> So, I don't know if bag pipes are made in this key, you know.
So, I don't know if this can ever be played live. Be >> played live. you got to do it.
It >> It's just like back to the app. So, he's in Boston. He records these things. He autotunes them.
He sends them to us >> and we're like, "Okay, we have the song.
The only thing left was to was to throw in the voice note at the very end."
>> And maybe the only time that this particular bagpipe, let's call it a solo for lack of a technical term, >> just ripping bagpipe solos exists in that key. >> Yeah.
But you've yourself because you can't ever play it live.
>> But I'm sure I don't know the mechanics of a bag pipe, but I'm sure that you know in the way where you can make harmonas in different keys.
Like you've got to be able to like it.
It would probably have to be a very custom expensive pair of bag pipes, but you probably could >> um >> in Burbank somebody probably in Burbank.
>> If somebody behind a door, a nondescript door in Burbank can do this for you. Paris >> 100%.
next to like a tire store parking lot.
>> God bless that bag pipe actually.
Why did you put a bag pipe on there, though?
>> Uh, a couple different reasons.
>> Couple different reasons.
The the primary reason was just from a producer standpoint and a songwriting standpoint.
>> The sound >> captures the longing and grief >> um that I was trying to convey with this song.
And also some of my favorite memories as a kid were were in Ireland uh with my brothers and my dad.
I I don't remember even how long we were there.
I must have been around eight.
And we would always like just go on these little adventures and we'd walk through the woods that like it was a small cottage and we'd walk through this like haunted woods and there were like just giant mushrooms and ferns and everything was dewy and it was just such a magical >> part of my childhood and we would just go on adventures and some of the adventures uh included rumaging through the house.
At one point, we went up into the attic and we found uh a really beautiful vintage case containing uh like these antique bag pipes >> in them.
And it was because that was my probably my favorite place that I ever lived as a kid with some of the best memories.
Um and we'd be playing I don't even know if they make the Viking Legos anymore, but like we my brothers and I would just be playing with these Viking Legos, which is like the coolest series Lego ever came out with.
just like the best memories and and so I wanted to be able to put that in there.
Um my my brothers have heard it. >> They like it.
>> I got I got the blessing.
>> I got the blessing >> which uh which felt really nice.
>> Um and >> I'd imagine for them too to be able to hear you take these memories >> that are really fond.
>> that are really fond. you have fond memories of these times and they do [gasps and sighs] >> and this voice note which could have just stayed and been personal for you but it's a beautiful way to cap off this this journey and song is a real journey from who you are now going through
almost retracing your life and kind of healing yourself through the process and God bless your god daughter for for stepping in and doing that and the whole thing for them as well it must be pretty pretty cathartic even just to know you can >> think about these things and bring them back to life. >> Mhm. >> Mhm.
>> Because because memories can when they just when you sit in them for a long time and you don't know who to tell or who to trust with them or where to share them, >> they can weigh you down. >> Yeah.
I saw this interview recently. Uh Connor was talking.
>> I don't know if it was the New York Times or something.
You saw it recent very recently and he's always been like an activist and he's always been, you know, the voice of the people in a very niche way.
um for a specific community and uh >> I love being a part of this musical community and um he was asked about why he doesn't write about uh some of the specifics that are happening politically.
And I loved his answer and I'm going to butcher it so I'm not going to try and quote him um because I know I'm not going to be able to do it verbatim, but it it was something along the lines of it's just there's just kind of so what I got from it was that there was just so much that it's hard to put it all into a song because a song is so short and it's hard to say all of the things that you want to say.
And even with this, I'm so proud of this double single.
so proud of uh my kind of coming into my own as a as a producer and kind of coming into my own as as a songwriter and also saying like the rules.
We're not going to have a chorus.
We're not going to have a bridge.
The first one's going to be the letter and the a letter and the second like kind of spoken word and the second one is going to be some verses in a chorus with a weird instrumental thing at the end. like I'm not.
>> So, and that was that was really cool, but by no means does it feel like a complete message of like, well, this is all I have to say about this.
It's like I'm probably just going to keep the rest of it to myself for now.
>> Um, but it doesn't feel like uh >> I'm not saying this is this is it, if that makes sense.
This is this is >> um >> it's what it means to you. >> Yeah.
>> It's what it means to you.
and and it it doesn't have a conventional chorus, but man, you know, about halfway through, there's a shift in dynamic as you go around one more time before the change into the vocal, which is really really thoughtfully done.
Really hard to do that arrangement wise to to to keep us on this very gentle climb.
>> I didn't play with a click, that's why.
>> Yeah, >> there was no click and I was playing uh on my acoustic guitar, no and no pick.
It was just thumb and it's like start out really quiet and then build and because I knew vocally I wanted to start to project more and in attempt to emote.
>> How many times did you record the vocal? Do you remember?
>> Probably like three times.
>> Couldn't be more than that, right?
Otherwise, it gets into performative space.
You start to we start to clean things up and refine things. >> Yeah.
Which I'm not really interested in.
I I saw this uh I saw some reactions to the thing I did on on Good Morning America where I hit kind of like a big note on on Zombies and Love and uh people were commenting on whether or not I was a good singer and I [snorts] don't really think that I am one.
I think if I was one, I would probably go to vocal lessons a couple times a week and I would do the I would I would have put like a vocal run in that pocket of the song because that's something that the great vocalists of our world would do.
That's something that Ariana or Mariah or Whitney would have done.
Like that's just those singers.
I'm not trying to be a singer.
I I'd like to hit the notes correctly, but as far as like tone, I enjoy abrasive. I enjoy the Tom Weights. I enjoy the Conors.
I enjoy, you know, like I like this abrasive thing.
And I feel like my even my favorite Damian Rice songs are ones where it his voice cracks >> because it feels honest and it feels raw.
And And >> you need headphones for this. Yeah, you do. You got them. Put them on.
Join me in the music sphere for this. >> Oh, wow.
Your voice is right in my head. >> Here I am. >> Who's the you? >> The you. >> And me and you. It's also my dad.
Yeah, both songs are are are to my dad.
>> And just this idea of, you know, the chorus is meant to sound like a lullabi.
The chorus is meant to open up >> because the chorus is when I talk about how beautiful the relationship can be without all the noise >> and how that's the space that I can actually enjoy >> the relationship. Mhm.
>> Whereas when we go into the verse and we get into the noise and the parasocial relationships and the expectations and it's just like >> that's the eerie, creepy, uncomfortable, you know, bloody knuckles with a concrete wall.
Like it it's very uh >> Yeah.
When did you realize, if you can remember, >> that you would you would have to one way or another figure this out that you would have to figure out how to live in this in this lifetime.
Figure out how to get your life into a place where it's yours.
But most of us, we do that without that noise, that parasocial dynamic, which is so loud in a world where it's so available. You're available to us. We're available to you.
It's all availability, right?
>> I think it's I think it's an active practice and acceptance. >> Yeah.
>> Um I'm well aware that the subsection of humans that I'm talking about, cuz I'm not talking about like >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
>> my dad's entire fandom.
Like that would be absurd.
Um but the the subsection of of people that take it too far, >> I'm well aware that those people are not going to understand this song at all. Yeah. >> And it's okay.
Like I'm well aware that it's not going to satiate some people and that's okay.
And I'm well aware that it's probably going to upset some people and that's okay.
Everyone's entitled to their own experience.
Everyone's entitled to their own, you know, reality.
I guess to to some extent, I think causing harm, that's kind of where I draw the line as far as the reality I want to live in.
>> But it's it's kind of just this Yeah.
active practice and acceptance and understanding that if I go left, I'm going to get annihilated.
If I go right, [laughter] I'm going to get annihilated. So, it feels surreal.
>> I might as well just be honest and be myself.
And and you know, it's >> I don't know.
This is this is just my honest experience through music.
You know, I I think it's inc it's incredible that you're at a situation where because I'm looking at the artwork here, which is a picture of you having an experience that that any child really I mean, everybody, if we're lucky enough, has parents who have photos in a box of that.
>> That is a classic >> Central Park 1999.
>> That's a classic pop photo of a kid, you know, having a day in the park and figuring out what is to be around other kids.
probably giving whoever's with you a little bit of a breather because you're quite happy doing your thing and you know what I mean.
It's it's a very normal thing.
Um what do you think when you see that photo and why did you decide to kind of honor the music with that picture?
>> There's so many I'm very grateful to have a good a good amount of, you know, easily accessible childhood photos.
Um and I have some friends that don't have any pictures from their childhoods at at all.
>> That says something as well.
Yeah, >> I'm I feel very very fortunate enough to have the collection of photos that I have.
>> Yeah, >> this was chosen for a couple different reasons.
There's the there's the overall vibe of like, you know, nostalgia.
My last record was very '9s influenced.
That's this has been a photo that I've wanted to use for my music for for a long time.
And then also there is the more logistic side of like I have to know who took the photo so that they can sign off the rights.
Um, which Kathy Olson, >> what do you recognize in that kid? >> So emotional. >> So emotional. >> Look at the eyes.
>> Yeah, >> that was a big thing.
I always um >> I would just stare at my dad since I since I was that age and up.
Like I would just stare at him. >> Just stare. >> A big stare.
Apparently I still do that.
My friends give me the feedback that I still like. I just stare.
[laughter] Some people don't like it at all. Uh but [snorts] yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.
I um I'm sure people are going to have some fun uh dissecting the lyrics.
>> What's your favorite lyric on there? >> Oh man.
I think the keep keep you to myself is is the part that that just hits hard, but it's so nail on the head and it's very like blatant of like, okay, here's this song and I'm just going to let let me have what's mine.
Like, let me have Don't make me perform for you.
Don't make me like >> that's not my way of showing love.
I'm not going to, you know, make a fan account.
I'm not going to, you know, let me have my own personal way of like, you don't know what I do when I'm at home.
You don't know if I light a candle.
you don't know if I have my own there's just there's a lot of assumptions.
there's a lot of assumptions. Um >> you think it's because partly and maybe you haven't given it this much thought and I just thought of this this may or may not be of any relevance whatsoever but if I could just kind of think of what it's like to be a fan of someone of
something or someone to such a degree that you feel compelled in order to reach out to somebody who has a closer a closer closer relationship with that person or that thing and you feel some resentment about that is because you're not meeting them in the place of worship. Do you know what I mean? It's Do you know what I mean?
It's like I want to get clo as close as I can to the thing that I love the most and the person who knew and loved that thing or that person the most won't meet me there. Why not?
Why don't you want to come and and worship like we want to worship? >> Yeah.
>> And it's kind of this it's almost like that's where the line gets crossed cuz it's like you have a right to to absorb, translate and and experience however you want.
>> Well, we just have different lenses. There you go.
>> We have different lenses and and one of my favorite examples is one that I saw [sighs] recently >> um where someone had written like where did she learn to curse because I know I know her dad and family didn't and the shurness >> from this person the absolute >> relentless tunnel vision of I know better and I know that this is true. I know he didn't swear.
swear. Meanwhile, literally one of my favorite childhood memories was we were somewhere in like the middle of nowhere Virginia and we were staying on like a farm and like there were cows and fireflies and it was just like middle of nowhere and we'd sit on the porch and we would watch the
thunderstorms and it was just like a very another really magical special like place in in my childhood memories >> and [clears throat] uh because there was this constant desire for make it magical, make it, you know, like walking through the woods in Ireland and telling ghost stories and just there was this keep the magic alive. And so picture this, [snorts]
And so picture this, [snorts] okay?
You're sleeping your in your bed >> and you get woken up in the middle of the night >> and your your parent is standing over you with a lantern that he found.
Somehow he found a lantern. He's like, "Sh."
And now you're creeping over through the property.
There's cobblestones, you know, it's like crooked path and you're by a main road, but you're on a private property.
Um, so you're not doing anything you're not supposed to be doing. >> Yeah. Yeah.
>> And a car drives by on the main road.
Dad gets spooked for some reason, as if you're doing something wrong. >> Takes off running. You hear a loud crash.
You see the lantern fly in the dark night sky.
And then you just hear, "Shit, I myself up."
[laughter] >> Which >> Now, >> just like that.
>> Now listen, I was not allowed to swear as as a child.
As a child, I was not allowed to like instead of saying but, we had to say booty.
Instead of saying like shut up, we had to say be quiet.
like it was >> it was important that that we didn't >> swear, but when this person online that's never met me is like where did she learn that word?
It's like it's been it's been around.
>> It's been around, >> you know.
And I also kind of have I try and be mindful at mom like when I'm on stage and I'm playing shows cuz I I do swear on stage. I do.
It's like we have bits, we have jokes, we you know, I kind of just speak whatever >> and sometimes I'll I'll be like, "Oh, there's a kid in the audience.
I probably shouldn't swear around them."
And then I'm also like, this kid has heard it before somewhere, whether it's from their parent or from another rock show that their parents have taken them to like to.
It's it's, you know, >> it's a rock show and you're a grown ass human being.
>> If if I see certain things, which honestly like I went and saw one of my aunts uh a few months ago.
I was in London and I asked her because she's experienced a remarkable amount of of scrutiny as well.
And I'm like, "How do you deal with it?"
She's like, "I just don't look."
And I'm like, "I need to do that.
I need to just not look."
When I do and I see these things and people are like, "Where did she I know for a fact that this, that, the other, and this person is living in a completely different reality of mine, I have to kind of remind myself that that's okay. They're allowed.
And I'm also allowed to have mine.
And I'm also not required to kind of like def defend myself.
But there is this if they're allowed to do that, I'm also allowed to like write about my experience.
>> That's what I was going to say.
You got >> and put it into art. >> You got your art.
>> That's what that uh [clears throat] glass line is about where it's like thumb print scuffing on the coward's glass.
It's this idea of these, you know, these phones.
We're just mindlessly rubbing a piece of glass all day, rubbing our thumbs on them.
Y >> if they cut themselves on the piece of glass, they're going to use the blood to forge a oneway pact.
That is the idea of this internet one like just one-sided, you know, parasocial >> and the and also the mirroring of love and it never was.
And it just it's >> Yeah.
I mean, it's it's very much like at one point in my life, I did try and mirror that expression of love uh the expression of love that comes from someone that didn't have a personal relationship.
And I think some of it did come from a place of of not knowing how to grieve and not knowing how to have my own experience with it.
And then also there must have been a part when I'm 14, 13 years old that had like some kind of desperate attempt to appease and cuz people pleasing was a huge part of my life for a very long time.
>> That's the abandonment thing. >> Yeah, it is.
And and also I think a really big thing that helped me kind of start putting the peopleleasing aside was realizing that it is inherently dishonest and manipulative. >> Yes. It Oh my god.
It's the big It's crazy when you realize that it it that that realization put me to sleep for 10 minutes. >> Yeah.
>> It's like you're mugging people. >> Yeah.
You're you're manipulating them.
You're not being your authentic honest self. You're lying. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
to to get something from someone, >> which is >> I don't want to be a dishonest person.
>> I don't want to be manipulative.
I did I did all kinds of stuff when I was still like using and getting high.
Like I don't I'm trying to live sober now, so >> why would I kind of continue that behavior?
Um and also this thing that I have to constantly remind myself of of you're never going to please everybody.
And at the end of the day, like the the the opinions that really matter to me are the ones of like my friends and colleagues and like >> and you're banned.
>> Dude, the truth the truth of the matter is like I have already attained success in the sense that these people that I look up to, uh, some artists I can name, some artists I won't because I'm not like I don't have public friendships with them, but like Kevin Divine and Andy Hall are great examples.
These are songwriters that I really look up to and I send them my stuff and they love it and they send me their stuff and I love it and it's there's and then there's some other artists that I consider heroes that really like what I'm doing and have said as much >> and it's like that's >> it.
I'm like in the club with like these people that I that I love, like these people that I respect.
And I'm not trying to make super palatable music.
I'm not trying to make, you know, a pop hit.
Uh, there's nothing wrong with that, but that's just not what feeds me.
And if the people that make weird that I really like also like my weird then like I can die happy. Like, I'm good.
You know, >> the thing about lyrics, Paris, is that you know what they mean to you.
Obviously, they're open to interpretation. That's the beauty of it.
And any great artist will ultimately recognize when you release a song, it kind of doesn't belong to you anymore.
It kind of does, but everyone's going to take it and apply it in their own way.
And >> yeah, >> you know, there's definitely going to be, you know, people who are going to pour just for the nature of who you are and who these songs are about, they're going to pour over these lyrics.
Um, you know, are there any lines or any any words or any lyrics in this song that you would like to clarify or talk about and get ahead of that because you probably know the relationship with these songs before they're even. >> I can I can guess.
Do you have the lyrics in front of you?
I can guess at some of them.
Um, >> yeah, >> we can go down in order.
>> You should really see them all. Yeah, you go through it. Here you go.
>> You should really see them all going like this.
I wonder if you know or want to know the things that you've missed.
I feel like that's pretty >> Yeah.
>> all crowded in the bedroom like some feral kids suffocating. It's such a trip.
So, I wrote It's Such a Trip. my coowwriter.
I wrote this with the Hill Country Devil and he wrote All Crowded in the Bedum Like some Feral Kids, which is like he's a really big >> Yeah. >> Tom Weights fan. >> Yeah.
>> And he's also bore witness to some of the like crazed almost foaming at the mouth like messages that I will get. >> Yeah.
>> I've started I've started sending some of them to him just kind of as like I got a load of this one.
This is three pages long. >> Which is the bedum? >> That was his line.
You'd have to ask him all crowded in the bedroom like some feral kids, >> which just hit hard.
There were a couple lyrics that he that he wrote like the bloody knuckles of the concrete wall was also his that he wrote in another song that he gave me for this one, which I'm so thankful for.
But yeah, suffocating and and I I really liked the idea of it's such a trip just the entire experience of like how upset people on the internet can can get um based on >> if something is as simple as like this person didn't celebrate birthdays so I'm not going to like publicly do something
on Instagram and I'll find my own private way to honor it and someone takes that and decides to come up with their own reality of what that is of like this person must hate this person and get so angry and it feels like a foaming at the mouth kind of a thing. That's a little
That's a little >> Yeah, >> it feels feral. It feels feral. >> Um >> that's fair.
>> Not all of them, but a solid percentage.
Not even most of them, but a solid percentage.
>> Um I explained the cutting themselves on the phone.
>> [sighs] >> um [snorts] ate you alive.
I feel like that can be open for interpretation.
I don't care really how people interpret that. That speaks for itself.
[sighs] Um and anything that's real will leave them outraged and and appalled.
I think that's also kind of something that speaks for itself in the sense that like I'm trying to live an honest life and I'm trying to live an authentic life and authenticity and humor is a really big part of what I try to offer my shows, my online presence, you know, how I meet people in in real life.
Even if I if I meet someone literally on the street in Venice the other day, I will crack a joke immediately and they either get it or they don't.
Sometimes they walk away and I'm like, "Well, that was weird.
weird. or they do not have a sense of humor and that's fine but that's something that I try and bring to as much as I can and some people don't like that and it is outraging and it is appalling to some people and >> I guess more that is they when they turn around about 500 meters later you're
still staring at them cuz you're a starer >> I might have to start doing that I might have to just like and not blink >> or like make one go like a little >> just turning around you're still just like them >> twitching at them thousand >> yards I want to I want finish this conversation um by wishing you the best on the road. >> Thank you. >> Thank you.
>> And uh I know you don't do this and uh I hope I hope coming out and and being a part of these kind of conversations and spending a little bit of time with people and being a little more open about your life is I hope you're getting something out of it. >> Thank you.
Yeah, I usually don't because the headlines that they write about it are the most absurd.
Like one of the ones was uh the question was what was it like growing up on Neverland?
My answer was, so I actually didn't grow up on Neverland.
The following headline was talks about her childhood.
Like it was >> Well, we gave you bag pipes and you guys pipes and G.
So I hope you enjoy Run with Bag Pipes and G everybody. You're welcome.