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It was just a natural anxiety that I had my whole life was causing me to have a panic attack.
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0:03
I remember having a panic attack at at that football game.
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So, you know, for me it was just a learning experience cuz cuz it was it was validating everything my father was telling me.
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And my father was telling me that if I didn't change my behavior, if I didn't change my lifestyle, I was going to end up in jail, dead, or broke sitting under the tree.
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Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose.
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I'm so grateful that you keep taking out the time to invest in your growth, your education, and for you to move forward.
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And today's guest is going to help you do just that.
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Today's guest is super unique.
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It doesn't really need an introduction, but I'm going to give him one anyway because I think that it's important for each and every person that we have on the show.
0:42
Today's guest is Charlamagne.
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He's best known for co-hosting The Breakfast Club.
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He's a social media influencer, an executive producer, and someone who I think has a really interesting way of thinking about culture, media, and what's happening in the world today.
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And I can't wait to tap into that.
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Charlamagne, thank you so much for making the time, man. Thank you for having me. Yeah, thank you, man.
1:04
Thank you for being here. Yeah, really good, man. Thank you. Yes, sir.
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But yeah, so today I want to dive straight in.
1:08
I called the podcast On Purpose.
1:11
I believe you're someone who's living a purposeful life, and I really want to dive into what that is.
1:16
But I want to start by setting your background up a bit because I want my audience to really learn about what you've been through, where you've come from.
1:22
And now growing up, you went to jail quite a few times. Yes, indeed. Right.
1:27
Tell me about what that experience looks like, feels like, and how you were able to evolve from it.
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I think that's an interesting question cuz for me, the first time I ever went to jail, I didn't realize how much trouble I was in because the first time I ever went to jail was for assault and battery with intent to kill.
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And it was me sitting in the backseat with one of my homeboys, another guy that was driving, and you know, one of my homeboys shot at at this this car because me we had just been arguing with the guys. We weren't not arguing.
1:56
We was in the neighborhood talking to the girls and they drove through and I was acting like Ice Cube in Boys in the Hood. I had my shirt up.
2:03
I didn't even have no gun. I just got my shirt up. Like, it was what's up? Y'all got a problem? Y'all got a problem?
2:05
So, then when we left the neighborhood and went to McDonald's, they followed us they followed behind us and then they pulled up on the side of us and so my homeboy shot and they literally came and arrested me the next day from high school and you know, you got to think up until that point I had been getting into a lot of disciplinary problems in high school.
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But, I had never been into a situation serious where I had ended up in jail.
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So, it's like when they put me in handcuffs in high school, I honestly did it didn't even dawn on me that, "Oh, shoot. I'm in prison.
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I mean, I'm in jail in county jail."
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In my mind, I was like, "I'll be out in by Friday in time for the football game."
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You know, like I literally thought I was going home that day.
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And I remember, you know, the police officers giving me a statement to write and I wrote this long lying-ass story about how I was hitchhiking and you know, I jumped in the car with some hitchhikers.
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And I don't know who the people were that shot.
2:56
I just made up this whole BS story, you know?
2:58
And I remember the the officers coming back saying to me, "You know, we was going we was going to let you go, but you know, you you sent us on this wild goose chase."
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And then my father my father was like, "Look, you know, I'm going to I'm going to let you sit here for a while."
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Cuz, you know, this is what I've been trying to tell you your whole life.
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I've been trying to tell you that if you don't change your your behavior, you're going to end up in jail, dead, or broke sitting under the tree.
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And you know, he he let me sit in there for like 45-50 days. Wow. Yeah.
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I mean, he he was he was actually he was waiting for the bond to go down as well, but he really wanted wanted me to learn a lesson.
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And you know, I didn't learn that lesson the first time I went to jail.
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You know, I learned it more like the second or third time I went to jail because, you know, when I when I first got out I was actually the day I went out, I went right back to the hood and my father told me not to do that.
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And you got to think I hadn't smoked weed for 50 days.
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So, that's that's kind of like when my love affair with marijuana stopped cuz I remember getting out after those 50 days and smoking weed and being so paranoid and all I kept thinking about was I'm about to go back in jail.
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I'm about to go back in jail.
3:59
I'm about to go back in jail.
4:00
But I didn't realize at the time I was dealing with anxiety, too.
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So, not only was it the weed, it was just the natural anxiety that I had my whole life was causing me to have a panic attack.
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I remember having a panic attack at at that football game.
4:10
So, you know, for me it was just a learning experience cuz cuz it was it was validating everything my father was telling me.
4:20
And my father was telling me that if I didn't change my behavior, if I didn't change my lifestyle, I was going to end up in jail, dead, or broke sitting under the tree.
4:26
So, when you see things happen to other people, you know, wise people learn from those mistakes.
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But you know, you know, a lot of times, you know, you have to go through things yourself, you know, in order to to to really learn from them.
4:37
That's why they say smart people learn from their own mistakes, while wise people learn from the mistakes of others.
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I wasn't wise then, you know?
4:42
I I probably wasn't even smart.
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But I had to go through all of that, you know, just to just to learn the lesson that my father had been trying to tell me for years.
4:49
Yeah, and what was it about that third time where you were like, "Okay, now I get it.
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Like now I get the lesson." What was it?
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wasn't even necessarily just the third time.
4:56
I remember the second time I got locked up.
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I got locked up for um distribution of marijuana cuz I sold to an undercover.
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And they had a a drug bust on on my the the the house we used to trap out of.
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Rest in peace to my man Jerrell Garnett. And we all was in jail.
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And I remember just all of us being in the cell and just just threw up.
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Like I literally I I wasn't even drunk or anything.
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I just I was just sick cuz I'm like, "Oh my god, I'm back in jail."
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Like but I was I was only there for the weekend.
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And then it was just like you know, the third time was just like, "Man, I'm I'm just I'm I put myself in such good positions, you know what I mean?
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But then I put myself in such bad positions and it's like, "Yo, you can't you know, play both sides, you know what I'm saying?
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You got to really do one or the other."
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So, it it was just me finally realizing once again everything my father is saying is true.
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If I don't change my lifestyle, I'm going to end up in jail, dead, or broke sitting under the tree.
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When you see people that you grew up with who you used to look up to and they really are broke sitting under the tree.
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Or you got people who end up going to jail for 5 years.
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Cuz that was the first time my my homeboy, he actually went to jail for 5 years.
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He was the first person I knew that had like a longer prison sentence.
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And those 5 years seemed like forever until he came home.
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But, you know, like those those type of situations just finally made me say like yo, this is real and I'm not going to waste my life.
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And I and I always had this vision of the future, you know, cuz I don't know what I was reading one day where it just said everything you do in your life today directly impacts what happens in your life tomorrow.
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And or maybe I saw Back to the Future and I was like damn.
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I remember I feel cuz I believe in the space-time continuum.
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So, it's like you know, you you you see what happens if you don't make the right decisions, you know, in your past that will impact your future.
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And I always thought about that.
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You know, I thought about what my friends were doing or what my cousins were doing, you know, and and and and what was causing them to be washed, so to speak, or causing them to end up in jail.
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And I I just was like I'm about to do the exact opposite.
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And that's exactly what I did.
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I started going to night school.
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I started, you know, working real jobs.
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Like I just did anything I had to do to create positive energy in my life. I love that, man.
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Because I think a lot of us can have that experience.
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Maybe not to the same extreme of going to jail multiple times.
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But, I think a lot of people listening right now or watching right now would say that we're not wise.
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We don't learn from the mistakes of others.
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We don't learn from hearing about the mistakes of others.
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We learn by unfortunately or fortunately going through the experiences.
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And one thing that you sparked was what you said about your father.
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There's there's a statement that says the day that you realize your parents were right, your kids are telling you that you're wrong. Ooh.
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But, I I mean, do you have that sometimes?
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Do your kids when you're coaching your kids or you're sharing that wisdom with them or insight with them?
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I haven't gotten to that point yet.
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Like my oldest daughter is 10. Okay.
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My other daughter is three and I got a 7-month-old.
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So, I haven't gotten to that point where like my like you know, both of my daughters have their own personalities.
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They're both very strong-willed.
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But for the most part, you know, especially my oldest daughter, she really listens to me.
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My second daughter don't listen to me at all, but she's only three, so I got to give her time.
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But my oldest daughter listens to me a lot and she listens to me Oh, that's beautiful.
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and intently, you know, and and you know, she just I guess maybe because we're both Cancers.
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You know, my my my birthday is the 29th and hers is the 27th.
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So, she's just in tune with me in a different way.
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And I think that she's grasping the concept of whatever happens today will dictate what happens in your life tomorrow cuz I realize she has a lot of plans.
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Like you know, she's been talking about going to Harvard for the longest and she started talking about going to UCLA cuz of their gymnastics program, if I'm not mistaken, or or the cheerleading.
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Might be cheerleading and gymnastics. I don't remember.
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Some program UCLA had that she's really into.
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But then she said she wants to be a dentist and you know, she hears me talk about business a lot and the one thing I do is if I'm on a like a business call, I I if she's riding in the car with me, I have the phone on speaker cuz I I don't think I think kids we learn we we we learn like we we the stuff we think is in the background to kids is actually top of the mind awareness to kids.
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So, when we're having these conversations, kids learn from that.
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Kids learn from what they hear us say.
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Kids learn from what they see us do.
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So, you know, if you walking around your kids yelling and screaming and cursing all the time, don't be surprised when they start yelling and screaming and cursing.
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But when you having conversations about business and you know, buying you know, commercial real estate and franchising and you know, whatever whatever it is, like she takes all of that in.
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Like she wrote a screenplay the other day. No way.
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She wrote it for just she just it was something for school, but it was a screenplay.
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I'm like, "How did you learn to write a screenplay?"
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And she was like, "Cuz I read a Harry Potter book one time that was a screenplay."
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I don't know if it was Harry Potter, but it was some book that she read that was in the form of a screenplay.
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But she wrote her own screenplay.
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Now she's she says, "I'm writing a book.
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I don't want you to read it till I'm finished."
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I'm like, "Do your thing."
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Like, I'm not going to stifle anything you do creatively, you know? Go. beautiful, man.
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I think that's a great trip.
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Yeah, kids don't do as you say, they do as you do. Absolutely.
9:47
And that's That man, yo, that's so funny you said that.
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I was having that conversation with somebody earlier today, and I was talking about or maybe it was yesterday, but I don't remember.
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I was talking about like how, you know, the the the the stupidest thing you could tell somebody, especially when you're a parent, is don't do as I do, do as I say. No.
10:03
Like, I'm going to do what I see you do.
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I'm not Like, I don't I don't care about your your words and lip service.
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I care about your actions and deeds.
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And that's how all of us learn.
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Like, we're we're we're a visual people, you know?
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If you show me how to do something as opposed to tell me how to do something, I'm going to learn faster. Well, at least I do. Yeah, me too. No, 100% man.
10:22
And And then this seems like a massive switch in your life because you have this moment or few moments, and you're now saying you're going to night school, you start getting real jobs, you shifted to being a local radio station.
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How does that shift happen?
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And why do you think you get start getting pushed in that direction of of music and radio?
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That shift happened because I believe that positive energy activates constant elevation.
10:45
And I mean, I always wanted to rap.
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Like, I got a I got Wolverine tattooed on my arm holding a microphone.
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I got this when I was 17.
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So, I always wanted to rap.
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And it's it's, you know, the the I got Wolverine holding a mic cuz I thought that the microphone was going to change my life.
10:56
It did, just not the way that I thought it was going to.
10:58
And so, like, you know, when you're a black man growing up in a a certain environment, the people you see who who are successful that look like you are usually in rap or they're usually in, you know, athletics. You know?
11:11
So, so for me, I wanted to rap.
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So, I I would be at these local studios.
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I was at a studio called TNT.
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And then I was at another studio called Never So Deep, you know?
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Never So Deep, those are my That's my family, you know? Dr.
11:23
Robert Evans and his son, you know, Blessed.
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And for me, I met this this named Willie Will, and he's a radio personality.
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And he was a local radio personality at Z93 Jamz in Charleston, South Carolina.
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And I remember just you know, I'm like that now.
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If I see somebody doing something interesting, I just ask them how did they get into it, you know, what what how did you how did you get into whatever it is that you're doing?
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And I said, "How did you get into radio, man?"
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And he was like, "I went down there and I got an internship."
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And I was like, "Oh, you you went down there and got an internship?
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Like like it's that easy?" And he was like, "Yeah."
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I'm like, "You don't got to be in school or nothing?" He was like, "Nah."
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And this was 1998 in Charleston, South Carolina.
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So it you know, the the entry the path to entry was a little bit less difficult than it is now.
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And so, that's what I did.
12:06
I went down there and I I got an internship.
12:08
And that's how I got my foot in the door radio.
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And for me, a guy who never been to college, didn't have no college degree, w- might have just graduated night school and have my diploma, that was a huge deal for me cuz that was the first environment I was in that was like really corporate.
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Even though I had worked at, you know, telemar- a telemarketing place called Paragon Solutions.
12:29
I worked at Demo in the mall, which was a clothing store.
12:32
But that was a big deal cuz that's you know, for me that's Z93.
12:36
I'm from Moncks Corner, South Carolina. My whole life was Z93.
12:40
Z93 is a heritage station in that area.
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It's still there right now. Wow.
12:44
So, that's what we used to always listen to.
12:46
So, for me to just be in that building, even though I was just a intern, you know, I was you know, driving the station vehicle and going to get the the jocks pizza or whatever it was, that just felt like such a big deal.
12:57
Even just driving the truck and people blowing their horn at you and you they driving on the highway like, "Oh, Z93."
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Like that was such a big deal for me.
13:04
So, that's that's how I got into that space, you know what I'm saying?
13:09
Just just really following my dreams.
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And that's what I always say, I'm not afraid to say [ __ ] my dreams.
13:15
And in my in my first book, Black Privilege, you know, I have a chapter called [ __ ] Your Dreams.
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You know, and it's [ __ ] your dreams if they're not your dream.
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Cuz rap really wasn't my dream.
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Rap was just something I wanted to do cuz I saw it working for other people.
13:25
I saw it working for people who looked like me.
13:28
So, me following that dream led me to be in that recording studio, but what was really supposed to happen I was supposed to have that conversation with Willie Will, and Willie Will was supposed to introduce me to this game that changed my life, which is radio.
13:40
And that And that's exactly what happened. Yeah, I love that, man.
13:42
And a lot of people won't know this as well is that mine's the same.
13:45
So, I have a microphone tattooed on my neck because I grew up wanting to be a rapper as well.
13:49
So, if you remember The Source magazine. Wow.
13:53
to be a rapper, too, and I used to love love spoken word. I used to love writing. I used to love word.
13:56
And that was the same thing for me.
13:58
And I had the same experience because I used to do Internet Choice FM.
14:01
Choice FM was London's cuz I I was born and raised in London.
14:04
So, Choice FM was London's like underground, grime, you know, hip-hop, rap. That was our space.
14:11
So, I was interning there when I was around 16, 17.
14:15
And for me it was the same thing.
14:17
And then I realized through the same process that what I loved was moving people through language, moving people through word. Communication. Communication. That's what I love.
14:23
So, even though I'm not a rapper now in my life, my whole life revolves around a microphone, whether that's podcasting, whether it's video, but the point is it's using words to articulate a message that moves and transforms people's lives. Same here.
14:36
That's That's That's That's very interesting you say that because that's what I have always known, but just started to really understand.
14:46
Like I I I tell people all the time I've been doing radio 21 years, but I feel like the past 2 years I've been really walking in my purpose, you know?
14:53
And And I think that purpose is, you know, knowing that when you got a certain platform, and you know, when that platform gets to a certain level, like you're here to deliver some some type of messaging, you know?
15:06
And I feel like that's where That's where I'm at now with it in my career. It's awesome, man. What is the purpose?
15:11
Where Where is your purpose right now?
15:12
Like what is exactly, and how's it serving people?
15:15
I've It's exactly what you just said. It's serving people.
15:17
You know, I I I wrote an article I used to write for Ozone magazine back in the day.
15:21
I don't know if you remember Ozone. Mhm.
15:22
I used to write for Ozone and I remember writing this article called what would It was It was what would Jesus do?
15:28
So, it was WWJD, but it was what would Jesus do if Jesus was a jock?
15:34
So, it was all of those initials. Yeah. Basically.
15:36
And um I was saying that if Jesus was alive, he would be a radio personality {slash} DJ because I really truly feel like we're public servants and we're here to serve the needs of the public.
15:49
You know, um we're not public servants like police officers.
15:53
We're not public servants like, you know, um firefighters, you know, but we're public servants being that every day somebody gets up in the morning 6:00 a. m. to 10:00 a. m.
16:02
and we got to get them through. Mhm.
16:04
You know, we help them get their day started. We give them their news.
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We give them their information. We entertain them. We educate them.
16:12
You know, we give them that energy.
16:15
And I truly feel like that is what you're supposed to do when you have access to these big platforms.
16:19
Like Malcolm X said, the the person who controls the media controls the minds of the masses.
16:25
And I mean, if you notice, we're getting fed we're getting fed a lot of BS right now.
16:28
You know, it's a lot of fearmongering going on.
16:30
You know, it's a lot of anti-intellectualism going on.
16:35
And I'm not saying I'm the most intellectual [ __ ] out here at all, but I know the people who are.
16:41
And being that I know who the the people who are, I got a platform of 4 to 5 million people that they can talk to whenever they want to.
16:47
So, so that's what I use my platform for.
16:48
If it's not me delivering the messaging that may impact somebody's life or affect somebody's life, I know the people that can.
16:56
So, for me, that's what my purpose is.
16:58
To to to serve the needs of the public.
17:00
And one of the biggest things I think that the public needs right now is we just need to be mentally healthy. Mhm.
17:06
And it's so it's so wild to me.
17:11
Everything that I'm realizing now I always knew.
17:12
Like I told you I wrote that article about being a public servant a long time ago.
17:16
And before that I always knew that everything was mental.
17:19
Like I always knew that and it can it can go back to like another bad creation saying everything is mental.
17:26
You know, TLC saying everything is mental.
17:28
You know, RZA saying everything is mental.
17:30
Everything starts with your thoughts.
17:32
You know, like when they teach you in kindergarten if you can conceive it, you can achieve it.
17:35
Like you have to be mentally healthy to even have that kind of optimism.
17:39
And you wonder why so many brothers in the hood, so many sisters in the hood don't have that kind of optimism is because they're dealing with their insecurity and their anxiety and their depression and just trauma and pain. How can I think clearly?
17:50
How can this tool that can change my life which is my brain, how can I properly use that if I got all of these, you know, obstacles in these these these distractions in my head that are keeping me from thinking optimistically.
18:02
So that my my biggest thing right now is just to just just to spread that word of investing in your mental wealth. Yeah, I love that man.
18:10
And that's the same reason why I started social media.
18:13
Like my my mission on social media is making wisdom go viral.
18:16
So it's like how do you take this wisdom that's like hidden away, it was only for the elite or it was only for people who went and had these crazy experiences and adventures.
18:25
How do we take that and spread it to everyone?
18:27
So that that average kid in London where I grew up or the average kid in New York City where we are right now can come across it and find it too.
18:34
They don't need to go read a book right now.
18:35
They don't need to go and travel halfway across the world to find it.
18:37
And so with that, how did you start cuz you talk about how at 40 you had a spiritual awakening.
18:44
How did you get to a point where you started to confront the fact that there were beliefs, pain, trauma from your past that you'd never faced before.
18:53
And that's what's clouding and blocking so many people today.
18:55
Our mental health or our mental wealth is lost because we're clouded by all this pain from the past, challenges we never looked at.
19:02
How did you start to confront that?
19:04
And where can people start too?
19:06
Well, man, for me you know, I started unpacking a lot of that in therapy.
19:10
You know, I always say that when it comes to therapy, you know, therapy is like having a real junkie closet.
19:15
So, you got a just a messy closet everywhere.
19:17
So, you start to pack up the things that you don't need and things that don't serve you anymore.
19:22
And you you get rid of that.
19:24
And the things you want to keep you hang up nice and neat.
19:26
And then you got room to bring new stuff in.
19:27
But, you know, to to get to that point, it was just me not only asking myself a whole lot of questions, having conversations with other people.
19:37
You know, it's so funny, man.
19:38
I got to like friends who used to tell me that they thought I was a sociopath.
19:42
Cuz I didn't really show any emotions or I didn't seem like anything ever got to me.
19:46
You know, I I didn't have empathy for other people.
19:49
And some of that could have been true.
19:52
But, you know, I just think that all of us are just so selfish.
19:54
So, we're all just stuck in our own world.
19:56
And I mean, I'm sure you can attest to the fact that when you really on your grind and you trying to get it, like you not thinking about nobody else.
20:03
Like when when I was thinking about everybody else early on in my career, it was like I had a bunch of stuff weighing me down.
20:10
You know, and it's like, yo, you can't take everybody with you until you get to where you're supposed to go.
20:13
So, I remember telling my homeboy DJ Frosty when I first got the job at The Breakfast Club, I said, "You know what I'm going to do, man?
20:18
This time around, something I've never done before.
20:20
I'm going to be completely selfish."
20:21
I said, "I'm going to focus on me and only me.
20:26
And then when I get to where I feel like I I need to be, I'm going you know, start start bringing everybody else along."
20:32
So, for me, when I started just having conversations with other people, right? Stop being selfish.
20:38
Like actually started listening.
20:40
Cuz you you That's one thing social media did do.
20:41
It it woke a lot of people up cuz you know, just our language.
20:45
Like you would say little things.
20:47
I remember one time I got on on Twitter and I said something about females.
20:50
Like I said, "Yo, females, whatever, whatever."
20:53
And it was just like all these comments, "You don't call women females."
20:56
And I'm like, "What the What the [ __ ] What's it What since when don't we call women females?"
20:59
But, that's just, you know, new language, new information.
21:03
And instead of At first, I dismissed it.
21:05
Like, "Man, I don't want to hear that."
21:06
But, then after a while I had to just stop and say, okay, well, let me see why they don't want to be called female.
21:11
So, they broke it down to me why they don't want to be called females.
21:15
I even, you know, conversations with with black women, you know what I'm saying?
21:19
Like black we we we tend to take for granted, you know, black women, you know, I I never I didn't I I I told my I used to work with this young lady named Crystal.
21:28
I used to have my TV show Uncommon Sense.
21:29
And she used to be on there.
21:29
I remember saying to her one day, look, I really did not know black women felt the way they felt, you know, cuz my whole life the strongest people around me was black women, you know, my mother, my grandmother, my aunt, you know, my my my girl who's now my wife.
21:42
So, I just wasn't paying attention to what they were saying, you know, I just assumed that they would always be there for us and I just assumed that they were strong enough to handle any load, but y'all they they was tired, you know what I mean?
21:58
And they was tired of a lot of the [ __ ] [ __ ] that we was doing.
22:00
So, for me, just those type of conversations started making me be just way more aware of what was going on around me and it started making me be more aware of what was going on with myself.
22:11
And I remember having a conversation with my homegirl Amanda Seales.
22:15
And I remember Amanda saying, yo, brothers are damaged.
22:16
They don't want to admit that they're damaged and they don't want to do the work to get no healing.
22:22
And I remember just hearing that word, healing.
22:24
And I remember saying to myself, I'm going go get me some healing. You know what I mean?
22:30
I'm going to go get me some real spiritual, emotional, mental healing.
22:36
Forget the gym three or four times a week, you know what I'm saying?
22:37
I'm about to start going to the therapist every week.
22:39
And I'm about to start meditating and you know, I'm about to, you know, just just do whatever I got to do to really put myself in a mentally healthy space.
22:46
And then I wanted to get a a handle on my anxiety.
22:50
So, you like, you know, panic attacks is something that I experienced my whole life.
22:55
And the last really Well, not the last really big really bad one, but the one I had that made me realize I was dealing with anxiety was when I was back at home living in Moncks Corner, South Carolina with my mother at like 31, 32 years old.
23:08
My daughter was like two.
23:08
My my now wife had to move back home to Moncks Corner with her parents and I just gotten fired for the fourth time from radio.
23:16
Finally started collecting unemployment cuz all the other times I was too proud to do it.
23:19
So I started collecting my unemployment checks and I remember driving down I-26 in South Carolina and feeling like I was about to die.
23:25
Like same feeling, the same shortness of breath, same crazy heart palpitations.
23:30
Had to pull over, drink some water, said a quick prayer like, "Please God, don't let me die on the side of the road.
23:34
Like I promise I'll go to the doctor tomorrow."
23:36
Went to the doctor the next day.
23:38
Doctor's like, "Yo, you got a healthy heart.
23:39
Your heart is fine, you know?"
23:41
But he said he said, "Have you Have you ever Have you suffer Do you suffer from anxiety?" And I'm like, "No."
23:48
He's like, "Sounds like you had an anxiety attack."
23:48
And I'm like, "I've never had that before." But I thought about it.
23:51
I'm like, "Yo, my whole life I've had these things."
23:53
And then the doctor said, uh "Are you stressed out about anything?" I'm like, "Hell yeah."
23:58
You know what I'm saying?
24:00
So in my mind I could always point to something else. You know?
24:03
So I didn't deal with it.
24:03
But then once you get my next gig with The Breakfast Club, four or five years later, you richer than you ever been, you got more opportunities than you ever had, but you still having the panic attacks.
24:12
You still having anxiety.
24:14
And you're like, "Okay, where is this coming from?"
24:16
And then finally my wife was like, "Yo, take your ass to therapy. Just go see what's up.
24:22
Instead of flirting with the idea and talking to other people about therapy, go." And that's what I did.
24:25
And then you know when you start going to therapy, you start unpacking all kind of [ __ ] Yeah.
24:31
You start dealing with trauma from things that happened to you when you was young, things that you thought you dealt with that you hadn't.
24:35
You know, you start focusing on your PTSD from things that happened to you when you was young.
24:41
And then you start thinking about you know, the pain and the hurt that you still feel from certain situations.
24:44
And you don't realize you have been redistributing that pain to other people for so long.
24:50
That's why you didn't have no empathy for nobody else cuz you really was hurting.
24:53
You've been hurting so long that you numb to what it is you actually feel. So, Yeah. you know. I love that, man.
24:59
And and and that's the challenge, right?
25:02
Like all of us have been through stuff, Mhm.
25:05
but we've never unpacked it. We've never repacked. We've never unlearned.
25:09
We've never figured it out.
25:09
And that's why we end up in this position.
25:10
And the problem is denial.
25:12
We sit there and we deny that we have any experience of stress or pressure or anxiety when the truth is we're dealing with a lot of it. And I love that.
25:20
I love the fact that you're making that point clear is that whatever you're experiencing, you're destigmatizing mental health.
25:25
Because we think mental health has to be something super mental, right?
25:30
Like we think mental health has to be something like schizophrenia or like a complete a a complete uh personality disorder or something.
25:38
We don't realize that it could just be regular anxiety. Yeah.
25:42
I didn't realize anxiety was a mental health disorder until I started going to therapy. Yeah.
25:44
And I remember when they asked me to write, you know, my second book.
25:49
They didn't ask me to write one, but they wanted me to write a second book.
25:51
And I was like, I really don't have anything to write about.
25:54
Cuz at that point, I was really just trying to figure my life out.
25:58
Cuz you got to understand like when I started going to therapy, I'm I'm 40 now.
26:01
I might have started going to therapy around 38, you know, early 39.
26:03
And for me, it was like, yo, can you imagine thinking you had it all together, thinking you knew exactly what what what was going on in the world, and then you start sitting down with a therapist and realizing you don't know [ __ ] Mhm.
26:19
Realizing that, you know, you you've just everything that you you was raised totally wrong from in a lot of different ways, you know, you was raised wrong by, you know, the the the influences you had growing up, you know, you was raised wrong by the the music you was listening to growing up.
26:37
You was raised wrong by your environment.
26:38
And you've carried all of this stuff with you into your adult world, and you're still trying to function with with with this level of thinking and this level of understanding of things, but you've lived now.
26:48
Like you've lived, and you've been around the world, and you've talked to a lot of people and you've seen other things and you realize like nah, this ain't this ain't it, bro. Like we we we wrong.
26:57
So imagine feeling like you know it all to realize and I don't know [ __ ] Especially when you're an influencer. Yes.
27:06
Like you're an opinion maker.
27:06
Like people come to you to listen to your thoughts. So.
27:10
And then you have to go through that process. Absolutely.
27:11
So the only thing I could do is like, you know what?
27:14
I got to take people on this journey with me. Simple as that.
27:17
You know, I remember I remember telling my book publisher like, look, you know, I've been going to therapy.
27:21
I've been keeping a journal.
27:23
Um, you know, I I've been dealing with my anxiety, but then I realized I'm dealing with my PTSD.
27:28
I'm realizing I got trauma from things that happened to me when I was younger.
27:31
I'm, you know, talking about being molested when I was eight.
27:34
You know, I'm talking about issues with my father.
27:35
Like all these different things, you know, uh, fear of not being a good husband, fear of not being a good father, you know, fear of, you know, not being a good friend.
27:45
You know, just all kind of different things.
27:47
And so I just started turning these into a in pages of a book.
27:49
And what I was trying to do, I was trying to translate what my therapist was telling me, but that doesn't work, you know, because what what your therapist is telling you just helps for you to have a better understanding of what it is you're going through.
28:00
So one thing that my therapist did help me do was to explain what I was going through better, but I brought in a doctor named Dr.
28:05
Ish to give like the clinical correlations to everything that I was feeling.
28:09
And then and that's that's what was That was really the most beautiful thing about the book.
28:15
That was therapeutic for me.
28:17
And I know people say that all the time when they write books, oh, it was therapeutic for me, but no, this was really therapeutic for me cuz this is not a it's not a book about understanding. Mhm.
28:22
Like it's not a it's a book of confusion.
28:24
It's a book of unpacking.
28:27
It's a book of This is all the [ __ ] that don't serve me no more.
28:30
This is what This is what was [ __ ] up about me.
28:33
You know, and I don't want this no more.
28:35
Like here, y'all take this. This is gone.
28:37
You know, cuz I'm at stage zero right now. And guess what?
28:41
Happy to be at stage zero. Yeah.
28:44
Like it feels good to not know. Yeah.
28:47
You know, and it feels good to say you don't know. Yeah.
28:48
And I feel like at 40, I'm doing more unlearning than learning. Absolutely, man.
28:52
At this point in my life. Yeah, absolutely.
28:54
And that's that's the biggest challenge today is like that ability to speed up, unlearning, relearning. Right? Relearning again.
29:01
And I think so many of us get blocked by thinking we know it all already. So, I love that, man. It's great message.
29:05
Let's tap into some of those fears in a bit more detail because I think your unlearning and your healing in those are awesome.
29:11
So, if we look at something like parental paranoia, which I know a lot of people have.
29:16
Like becoming a parent, I'm not a parent yet, and that's why I'm asking, but I'm also asking it because one area of wisdom that I don't talk about is parenting because I'm not a parent.
29:24
And I know my audience cares a lot about this.
29:25
So, let's talk about that parental paranoia, which I think is very normal.
29:29
How have you kind of grown to deal with that and work with that or heal that?
29:33
You said something earlier.
29:35
You said something about you What did you say?
29:36
You realize you're a parent when you realize you're a parent?
29:39
The day you realize your parents are right, your kids are telling you that you're wrong. Yeah.
29:42
And and I guess that was another one of those moments, you know, only because you think about all the times your grandmother used to to trip out over you all the times your mother and father used to trip out over you or wonder where you was at and why you didn't come home.
29:58
Like I remember my father, you know, gave my my sister my older sister a beating cuz she broke curfew and I remember everybody running around the town looking for her trying to find out where she was and this and that.
30:07
It's just like that is only that's a paranoia that only a parent can understand.
30:13
You know what I'm saying?
30:15
Like the love you have for your children.
30:18
Like they that those are real I got three girls.
30:20
So, those are that's really your heart outside of your body.
30:24
Like you're looking like somebody just ripped my organ out and threw it on the table.
30:27
I'm like, "Yo, could you be more gentle with my heart? That's my heart."
30:29
So, it's just like when my daughter is on the way to school in the morning, you know, her being at school right now.
30:36
Like I don't feel any sense of relief.
30:38
Well, I got a sense of relief now cuz I know it's 3:00.
30:39
So, she's out of school now.
30:41
She got out of school 3:30, but I don't feel any sense of relief till I know she's home.
30:44
You know, only because I don't know what she's going to experience at school, especially nowadays. You know what I mean?
30:50
Like these kids are growing up way different than we ever grew up.
30:52
And then you see stupid [ __ ] on the news like school shootings and you like, man, you know, like you start thinking the worst Yeah.
31:00
at all times, you know, and it's just like those are the things that I'm afraid of, you know, and then even just when your your kids get older.
31:07
I remember somebody asking me the question Jemele Hill asked me this.
31:12
Jemele Hill said, are you uh would you are you the type are you the type of man you would want your daughter to date? Mhm. Or or be with.
31:24
And I was like, yeah, probably me from 35 to 40.
31:28
Anything before that, hell no. Yeah. You know?
31:30
But but that's honestly Think about Think about that question like if you got girls, are you the type of man that you would want your daughter to date?
31:40
Like stuff like that is what will help you go out there and get the healing you need if the answer is no. Mhm.
31:47
You know what I'm saying?
31:47
If the answer is no, then go out there and get that healing you need.
31:50
Take your ass to therapy, whatever it is you got to do to you know, be the man that you would want Yeah. your daughter to date.
31:57
So, like I'm I'm paranoid about all of that stuff.
31:58
Like I It's certain things that I've already embraced.
32:01
Like I know one day my daughter's going to have sex.
32:04
You know what I'm saying?
32:04
Like and then She's got to get up. It's going to happen.
32:06
Like every woman that we love in our life has sex.
32:10
Your mama, your grandma, you know, your sisters, your aunt. That's going to happen.
32:14
So, it's just like things like that I'm about to get a panic attack thinking about it, but that's just what you you you Like things like that is what you just have to accept.
32:23
You understand what I'm saying?
32:25
So, it's just like you know, I always got to remember my serenity prayer, man, and that's just God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
32:33
Cuz there's nothing I can do.
32:34
And that's Somebody else told me that, too, and that was one of the most freeing things to me.
32:37
They told me that you got to just let go. Yeah.
32:42
Like no matter how I can I can grab my daughter like this and hold on to her tight.
32:45
I've been I got to let go. She's 10.
32:47
My other daughter's going to be older in a minute too.
32:49
She's going to be in school.
32:50
Like they got their own lives that they got to live, their own lives that they got to lead.
32:54
Only thing I can do is just guide them along the way. Absolutely, man. Absolutely.
32:57
No, you're spot on and and I think that's like you said, that's a natural feeling everyone's going to have.
33:03
I always had that with my younger sister.
33:04
I've got a younger sister.
33:05
I always felt like I fathered her to some degree and there was always that feeling and that pain of seeing her date or whatever it may be and you're right, there's just something you have to accept and there's a big part of acceptance needed because you can't control everything and that's also liberating when you figure that out that not everything is for yours to control. Absolutely.
33:25
And it's not for you to control.
33:25
There is certain things to humanize yourself by and you realize, oh actually I'm not that significant because I can't control everything and I have to learn to accept certain things.
33:34
Yeah, I was going to write a book.
33:34
I mean I don't I don't think I'm going to go with this title anymore just cuz the energy of it don't feel right but you know, at one point I was going to write a book called one day your daughter's going to suck dick and other things you have to accept as a father.
33:48
Well, so now what's he going to change the title to?
33:49
I might not change I just don't know that that just feels a little too crass.
33:53
You know what I'm saying?
33:53
Like I I I know that sounds crazy coming from me but I'm not I'm I guess I've grown.
33:57
You know what I'm saying?
34:00
I guess I've grown cuz at one point I'm like, yeah, that's the title.
34:02
I love that but then now it's like, eh, I don't know if I want to put that out.
34:05
It'd be a useful book, though. Very useful. Very useful book, yeah.
34:07
But sometimes, man, you know, you got to present the message in the right package, you know?
34:12
Sometimes yeah, people will dismiss you and and just because of that title, you know what I mean? Which I think is whack.
34:18
I'm not that kind of person, you know?
34:19
I'm the type person if I see a book like The Subtle Art of Not Giving a [ __ ] I'm going to read that book, you know what I mean?
34:26
I'm like, oh, that's a dope title.
34:27
Like that grabbed me but I know I come from a different generation.
34:28
I come from a different culture.
34:30
You know, I was going to name my first book, I don't give a [ __ ] and neither should you.
34:33
A self-help guide on how not to give a [ __ ] And the book publishers was like, "No, you'll never get into Walmart.
34:38
You'll never get into Target.
34:38
Nobody will buy a book with [ __ ] in the title."
34:42
And then here comes The Subtle Art of Not Giving a [ __ ] Mark Manson.
34:43
Sold goddamn over 2 million copies.
34:45
And I remember standing that [ __ ] to I wrote about that book in my book cuz I was talking about how, you know, you sometimes you just got to shh listen to yourself. Yeah.
34:56
You know, like sometimes you're ahead of the curve and other people have to just catch up.
35:00
And that's just the way our society is, especially when it comes to creatives.
35:03
That's why you got to let creatives just be creatives cuz they're already 10 steps ahead of you, but you got all of these suits, whether it's TV, whether it's the film world, whether it's books, like you just got these suits that are old and stuck in their ways.
35:16
And being that they've they've never seen it work before, they'll tell you it can't work.
35:20
Not knowing that you might be the first that changes the whole game.
35:27
Nobody nobody wants to be game changers anyway. You know? Absolutely.
35:29
You look at Bohemian Rhapsody and Freddie Mercury.
35:31
It's like such a game changer.
35:33
And you look at anyone that we look up to or admire in the world, they've been game changers.
35:37
They don't write books about people who are not game changers.
35:40
You don't make movies about people that are not game changers.
35:41
But, we've always been taught about how do you trust other people?
35:45
We don't get taught how to trust yourself. Right?
35:47
We we get taught how do you communicate with other people?
35:49
We never learn how to communicate with ourself.
35:51
And so if you never trust your own self, you're always looking for validation.
35:54
Like, "Hey, do you think this is a good idea?
35:55
Hey, suit, do you think this is a good idea?
35:57
Hey, suit, do you think this is a good idea?"
35:58
And then that suit becomes your validation and your decision maker. Absolutely.
36:02
And those are the most uncreative people in the world.
36:04
Like I've never been more confident in my life than I am right now.
36:07
And I'm confident in the fact that I don't know [ __ ] Yeah.
36:10
And I'm comfortable with that.
36:11
You know, and I'm confident in the fact that I am a person who truly loves theyself.
36:18
And the reason I truly love myself cuz I've done the work to truly love myself.
36:21
And it's easier for me And I guess that's why I get hurt a a because I am a loving trusting person.
36:28
Cuz I'm I'm at the point in my life where I just I try to see the good in everybody, you know what I mean?
36:34
And and and I don't expect you to [ __ ] me over.
36:38
That's another lesson I recently learned. Yeah, go for it, man.
36:40
I used to I I still believe in the law of attraction, meaning that your thoughts become things, but um I don't necessarily think I believe in energy as far as like whatever you put out, you get back.
36:53
Because it will always be somebody else out there who's having a [ __ ] up day Mhm. who will ruin yours.
36:58
Cuz you got to think all all we're trying to do every day is avoid crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
37:03
We're just trying to stay out of the way of negativity, crazy, evil, but guess what?
37:08
Sometimes there's people out there who are hurt. Mhm.
37:09
And they haven't done the work on themselves, and they haven't, you know, gotten to that place where they're trying to do any healing.
37:14
And so, hurt people hurt people.
37:15
And sometimes we run into those people.
37:16
And it has nothing to do with anything that we did.
37:20
We just happen to run into, you know, some of that negativity that day. Yeah.
37:25
So, so that's just that's just something I've been thinking about.
37:27
So, it's just like, yo, you just got to you got to do you got to put that kind of energy out there just because you like putting that kind of energy out there.
37:34
Not because you're putting that kind of energy out there cuz you want to get it back. it back. Yeah, absolutely.
37:37
And I've realized actually that when you put out good, it does come back to you, just not in the same place as you put it. Yes. Right?
37:43
Like it will that energy will transfer back, but not in the same place as you put it.
37:47
So, just because you put good energy into work, doesn't mean good energy is going to come back to you through work.
37:51
Just because you put good energy into this person, doesn't mean this person's going to give you good energy back. Absolutely.
37:56
And that's our expectation is that we think like, if I'm nice to this person, they'll be nice to me, and that's not going to work like that.
38:02
No, be nice to that person cuz you want to be nice to that person and put a period on it. Yeah, absolutely. I love that, man.
38:06
And I one thing you mentioned earlier that I want to dive into now, which is more about your understanding of culture and where you see it going, and you spot it you said that I grew up listening to the wrong type of music, or there was music that you think created an environment and pushed you down the line.
38:21
You even said when you were thinking about people that look like you, there were certain things. Yeah, yeah.
38:26
Let's Let's talk a bit about how much you think music through all of its, you know, whether it's bad language, whether it's idolizing going to prison, whether it's idolizing guns and gangs, whether it's demeaning women or men even.
38:38
Like, where are your thoughts on that?
38:40
And And how do you think that needs to evolve or do you think it does at all?
38:43
Not I think it I think it has evolved.
38:45
You know, I mean I grew up in the '90s.
38:47
So, I grew up in the era of gangsta rap music.
38:49
So, it was it was all about you know, the celebration of violence.
38:53
It was all about the glorification of the gang culture, the glorification of the drug culture, and the extreme disrespect of women.
39:01
You know, I mean you're talking about, you know, whether it was AMG [ __ ] Better Have My Money or Snoop Dogg [ __ ] Ain't [ __ ] But Hoes and Tricks, you know what I'm saying?
39:12
NWA I'll Teach You How to Suck a Dick.
39:14
Like, you know, I remember Cam'ron said, "Niggas think to What he said?
39:18
[ __ ] think to reach a [ __ ] you got to What he said? Oh, yeah.
39:21
[ __ ] think to reach a [ __ ] you got to treat a [ __ ] Now, this two [ __ ] got to beat a [ __ ] I said, "Reach a [ __ ] who think she all that.
39:26
Whip her one time, 10 minutes she'll call back like all of these like you Like that's what we were constantly listening to all the time."
39:33
And when you go back and you look at like C.
39:34
Delores Tucker and Al Sharpton and all of these people who were saying, "Yo, this music is messed up. It's ruining our kids.
39:40
Like, you know, rappers y'all need to do better.
39:43
Record labels need to stop pushing this shit."
39:47
We rebelled against that.
39:47
You know, you know what you know what we said to C. Delores Tucker? What?
39:50
Shut up, [ __ ] You know what I'm saying?
39:52
Like like that God bless the dead. That's what we did.
39:54
We rebelled against that. But, she was right. You know?
39:58
And it's so it's like a whole generation of of of us was affected and influenced by that kind of rhetoric.
40:04
And you know, I don't think that it's until you get older and you start having daughters of your own.
40:10
You know, that's why I think the Me Too Times Up movement is so good because the Me Too Times Up movement is is like a like a like a day of reckoning, you know, and it's making a lot of people, you know, look in the mirror and and and and the culture has shifted, and you know, either you evolve or die. Mhm.
40:26
You know, and that's something I saw like 4 years ago, you know, before there was a Me Too Times Up movement.
40:32
Like I Like I said, I don't know if it was my daughter, uh like my wife checking me, you know, cuz I was really on some hip-hop Howard Stern [ __ ] Like like that all of that got to my head, Mhm.
40:43
you know, when they was calling me the hip-hop Howard Stern and the black Howard Stern.
40:46
And you know, when I grew up listening to Howard, like Howard was on some frat boy, you know, rapey, borderline borderline rapey culture.
40:55
Not even borderline, rape rape culture. Rape culture, yeah.
40:57
And so it's for like for me, I'm like, "Okay, that's what I'm going to do.
40:59
I'm going to be shocking.
41:00
I'm going to say the most creepiest things to women in interviews.
41:04
You know, I'm going to bring porn stars in here and tie them up.
41:05
I'm going to do like all of that kind of stuff."
41:09
And that has been the most low-energy content that I've putting out put out there, if you ask me.
41:16
You know, like when I'm having conversations with people, ain't nobody bringing that up to me.
41:19
Ain't nobody saying, "Yo, I you did this and you did that."
41:21
They're talking about the more high-level stuff that I've I've putting out there in the past few few years that is really influenced people.
41:28
So, it's just like I was doing all that for nothing.
41:31
You know, if anything, all that did was come back and bite me in the ass later on in life.
41:34
Cuz when they start digging up old tweets and listen to listening to old commentary, they're like, "Look."
41:41
I'm like, "Man, I'm not even remotely that guy anymore.
41:45
Like that's 8 9 years ago.
41:48
Like I'm I'm over here with it, but you got to deal with that cuz that's part of Me Too. I put that out there.
41:55
You know, so for me, it's just like I You know, so I was just reading Howard Stern's new book.
41:58
Howard Stern got this his whole introduction is literally about that.
42:01
His whole introduction is about how he doesn't consider anything he did back then good. Wow.
42:08
He was like, "That [ __ ] is cheap.
42:09
It was it was it was whack. It was disgusting."
42:13
And he was and and and this is a guy he don't he don't got to answer to nobody.
42:16
He don't have to admit that, you know, he was just like that's not who I am anymore.
42:20
He said he said he said this book this book that he put out is his legacy book.
42:23
He was like, this is what I want to be remembered at.
42:25
I want these long-form interviews to be what people remember me for.
42:29
And so it's like it's the same thing with me.
42:32
Like, you know, you grow up a certain way.
42:33
Like I remember having a I remember having a conversation with my father when he was cheating on my mom.
42:40
And I'm like, "Oh, you cheating on mom? Yada yada yada."
42:41
And I remember him looking at me and laughing and saying, "Oh, you only got one girl, huh?" And I'm like, "Yeah."
42:46
One one one day you'll understand.
42:49
So in my mind from that point, I'm thinking, so I'm not supposed to have one girl.
42:53
I'm supposed to have a bunch of different girls.
42:54
And then, you know, you also realize that a lot of that is just ego. Mhm.
42:57
You know, men men I say it all the time, men only sleep around with a bunch of different women to feed their ego.
43:02
They're looking for some sort of validation.
43:04
You know what I'm saying?
43:06
Like their their cup is empty. Mhm.
43:07
So they're trying to fill their cup up and they keep wondering why, all right, I can sleep with 10 different women and my cup still don't feel full cuz there's a hole at the bottom of your cup.
43:13
Like you need a whole new cup, brother. You know?
43:14
So it's just like for me it all of these things I'm talking about created just uh a culture shift and a created a spiritual awakening in me.
43:25
Like I can't pinpoint one specific thing that made me say, "You know what?
43:31
I got to be a better human being.
43:31
I got to be a better man."
43:34
Cuz I was I was on this journey 4 years ago, 4 or 5 years ago.
43:38
That was just from listening to my friends and listening to women around me who who cared about me and and was was telling me what I was doing wrong, you know?
43:47
And you know, even even some of social media, not all of it cuz it's not constructive, but some a lot of it can be constructive criticism cuz you start seeing things and you like, "Am am I that way? Mhm.
43:57
Do I really act like that?
43:59
Do I really move like that?"
43:59
And then when you take a step outside of yourself, you put your ego down, you're like, "Oh, I see what they're saying." Yeah. Yeah.
44:07
And I love hearing that, man, because I think just the fact that you can get that open in front of a mirror and be okay with the fact and what you've just said about how it's turned, getting okay with the fact that you don't need to tell anyone you've changed.
44:21
You don't You don't owe You don't feel like you owe anyone anything.
44:24
You've done your thing, but to be able to go out and just say, "I got it wrong. I messed up.
44:27
That was a waste of time."
44:29
I think it's amazing that we live in a world where we have people doing that because it's so easy to continue playing the facade and faking it the whole way and pretending like it never happened. Yeah. Right?
44:39
You can grow and just pretend like it never happened.
44:40
Yeah, I mean, that's that's I mean, listen, I I would never grow and pretend it never happened only because all my favorite stories growing up were the stories of people's growth and evolution. Yeah, absolutely, man.
44:54
You know, I love the autobiography of Malcolm X, and I say it all the time, this generation wouldn't let Malcolm Little become Malcolm X, you know?
45:00
I I love I I was talking about Kim Kardashian earlier today. Yeah.
45:04
Man, I don't give a [ __ ] how Kim Kardashian career started.
45:09
Kim Kardashian is out here getting people free from prison.
45:11
She's become this, you know, criminal justice reform activist, you know, this prison reform activist, and she's using her privilege and she's using her money and she's using her fame to get people free from prison. Who saw that coming? Mhm. Absolutely. It's a great surprise.
45:30
Like I used to work right over there on 34th Street on Park Avenue WBLS when I was Wendy's co-host.
45:33
I used to watch Kim and Kourtney come hang out with my homegirl Nicole Spencer. She was Wendy's booker.
45:39
Like they used to come and just hang out in Nicole's office trying to get an interview from Wendy when she was like organizing parties and doing the closets.
45:45
And Wendy Wendy was like, "All right, come in." And she came in.
45:46
And then, you know, when when when the sex tape happened, she came back to talk to Wendy exclusively.
45:53
And I saw I remember when Kim Kim ran through the whole urban circuit, Smooth magazine, King magazine, was out there kicking it with the rappers, dating the rappers, video vixen.
46:01
Then she grew to reality TV star, and now she's a a wife and a mother, and she's a one of the biggest brands on the planet, and she's getting people released from prison.
46:10
Like, YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT SOMEBODY'S ultimate journey is going to be.
46:16
You don't know who We really don't We really have no idea who's going to change the world. You can't ever tell.
46:21
You can't ever look at a person and say, "Oh, yeah, that's going to happen." You really don't know.
46:25
Sometimes it comes from the most unlikely places.
46:26
Who would have thought a pimp from Harlem would have ended up being one of the greatest activists, leaders the world has ever seen.
46:36
You don't you you really don't know.
46:37
You know, look at Jay-Z, drug dealer from Brooklyn, Marcy.
46:40
Now, look what he's doing with the the Reform Alliance, and you know, and and and and telling everybody to embrace black ownership and black entrepreneurship, something that he's been doing from the beginning.
46:50
Honestly, he's been he's been on his black ownership tip since the beginning.
46:53
But, you're looking at this man, and you're saying, "Man, this man is really evolving into the leader of the free world." He said that one time.
47:01
I remember one on a on a on I think it was on Ignorance [ __ ] he was like, "The next leader."
47:06
No, more like the leader of the The next leader of the free world, or something like that.
47:09
And I'm like, that's really what he's evolving into.
47:13
This is the guy who made Big Pimpin'.
47:16
It's the There's There's not There's not a more misogynistic video in the world, but now this guy is married to one of the most beautiful women in the world, and beautiful kids, and like, he's telling people about therapy, and man, it's it's like, man, it's a beautiful time, man.
47:27
But, I'm saying all that to say, you just don't know who's going to be who.
47:32
You just got to let people grow.
47:34
You got to let people evolve.
47:34
You got to let people make their mistakes. Yeah.
47:37
You know, we're all works in progress.
47:37
I don't know what I'm going to be 10 years from now. Yeah. I have no idea. And guess what? I'm fine with that.
47:42
10 years ago, you would have asked me what I'm going to be 10 years from now, I'd have had a whole list of things lined up for you. I'm going to be this. I'm going to be that. I'm going to be that. And guess what? It's all true. Yeah.
47:49
You know, but you tell me what I want to do on a professional level?
47:53
Yeah, I could tell you some things I want to do on a professional level.
47:55
On a personal level, I just want to continue to grow.
47:57
I want to continue to hit I just want to continue to grow.
48:00
I want to continue to heal.
48:02
I want to be the best I I can be mentally.
48:05
I want to be the best I can be spiritually.
48:06
I want to be the best I can be emotionally.
48:07
That's what I want to do on a personal level.
48:09
The personal growth is more important to me than the professional growth at this point. I love that.
48:13
What a powerful message, man. That's just I love it.
48:15
I'm just listening and going, this is exactly what the world needs to hear right now because we need to let people grow.
48:19
And we need to let people evolve.
48:22
We need to let people change their story and write another chapter because the challenge is we want them to stay in their chapter.
48:29
We want people to stay in their lane.
48:29
We want people to stay in their box and not give them an opportunity to become something else because we're like, oh, we know what you did.
48:36
We know what you did before.
48:37
But we need to let them grow.
48:38
Well, you know what they say?
48:38
They say when you when you can't stop somebody uh from from from from who from being who they are, you keep trying to bring up who they used to be. Yeah, absolutely.
48:47
You know, and and I always I talk about how imagine 15 years ago you were driving down a highway and the speed limit on the highway was 70 mph. So, you would do 70.
49:00
Sometimes you do 75, 80 cuz you know you can get away with it, you know?
49:02
But then 15 years later, they've reduced the speed limit on the highway to 55. Why? Because 70 was too fast.
49:10
It was too many accidents happening.
49:12
Too many fatalities, you know?
49:15
People were just really getting hurt.
49:16
So, it was safer for people to be doing 55 mph. Okay, boom.
49:18
Speed limit gets reduced to 55.
49:21
15 years later, you're grown. You're evolved. You get it. You're driving 55.
49:25
Sometimes you might do 60 cuz you know that's what you can get away with.
49:29
But imagine you go home and then all of a sudden you start getting tickets in your mailbox cuz you were doing 70 15 years ago on this highway that is now a 55.
49:38
It's like I was doing what I was allowed to do at the time.
49:46
That's the information I was presented.
49:48
They told me 70 was the speed limit I could do.
49:50
So, that's what I was doing.
49:52
Now that I found out that to me living a healthy lifestyle or anybody on that highway living a healthy lifestyle, I'm going to drive the speed limit cuz I want all of us to live and on on this journey called life.
50:02
I want all of us to be peaceful on this journey called life.
50:05
I want all of us to live safe on this highway called life. Absolutely, man.
50:10
This has been such an amazing conversation and every podcast we finish here with the final five.
50:14
So, these are final five rapid-fire questions you can answer in one word, Okay.
50:19
three words, or one sentence maximum. Right? Easy for you.
50:21
You're a lyricist, you're a rapper, so this is part of part of the play. So, final five.
50:25
First question, what do you think is the greatest hip-hop album of all time?
50:31
Only Built 4 Cuban Linx by Raekwon the Chef. Oh, nice. Okay.
50:33
Question two, if you could change one thing about humanity, what would it be?
50:42
I I would want everybody to love. Okay. Nice.
50:46
Question three, what's the best advice you've ever received?
50:53
Best advice I've ever received, um hm. Take your time.
50:59
Honestly, man, I would have to give that credit to my father when he told me that if you don't change your your lifestyle, you're going to end up in jail, dead, or broke sitting under the tree.
51:08
And then the reason I got to credit it that to him because what he was telling me back then is you have to grow, you have to evolve. Mhm.
51:19
And that is something that even though I don't have I don't have no threat of jail, and we all have a threat of death, you know, but I don't I don't have any threat of being broke sitting under the tree.
51:29
It's just that at every point in your life it's going be it's going to call for a new you. Mhm.
51:35
And it's going to call for you to grow and it's going to call for you to evolve.
51:38
And if you don't evolve, you will die. Absolutely, man.
51:41
Question four, what's the worst advice you've ever received?
51:46
Worst advice I ever received was [ __ ] that you going to be a real [ __ ] for the rest of your life.
51:53
You know, like as that's just stupid.
51:56
You know, cuz cuz there's so many of us I've seen so many people fall victim to just stuck on that one mindset.
52:05
Like they just had to stay in tune with the hood and they just so much so that they would still hang out in the hood.
52:13
Like I had homeboys who got on scholarships to go to college but they just wanted to come home all the time just to hang out in the trap. You know what I mean?
52:21
And that's exactly what happened.
52:22
They ended up trapped in our hometown.
52:24
You know, they ended up you know they ended up just not evolving the way that they probably would have if they would have stayed in school and stayed in college and actually took advantage of the scholarships and stuff that they were presented.
52:39
So it's just like yeah, like you know, just keeping it keeping it real in the cliche that's the worst advice I ever got.
52:45
The worst advice I ever got was keeping it real. Yeah.
52:46
But keeping it real in the cliche term that the streets give you which is actually keeping it criminal. Mhm. You know. Keeping you locked.
52:55
Yes, cuz keeping it real is what I feel like I'm doing now.
52:57
I'm like I don't know anything.
52:59
I'm in I'm going to therapy.
53:02
Do you know what I'm saying?
53:03
I'm afraid of being a terrible father, being a terrible husband.
53:05
So yeah, that's I feel like I'm more real than I've ever been. Nice man.
53:09
And question five, what's the one thing you're trying to learn this year?
53:15
Hm, I'm actually trying to unlearn more than I'm trying to learn.
53:17
I don't think I'm really trying to learn anything.
53:18
I'm just still unlearning a lot of a lot of things.
53:22
I feel like unlearning is learning at least for me. Great.
53:26
You know, so it's just like I'm still just peeling back a lot of layers of of of of BS and a lot of layers of nonsense and I'm just I'm just really just trying to learn how to how to love more.
53:38
I know that sounds so cliche but it's the truth, man.
53:40
Like I promise you like if we all just First of all, it got to start with you.
53:44
Your first, last, and best love is self-love.
53:47
If you love yourself, it will be so easy for you to love others.
53:50
And you know, I I I started thinking about this a lot when the Nipsey Hussle situation happened. God bless the dead.
53:55
Because I never in my life felt empathy for both parties in a situation like that. You know?
54:07
I knew Nipsey, you know, Nipsey was a a a great brother, you know, me and Nipsey used to share books and stuff like that.
54:13
He was a he's a he's a good man, you know?
54:16
And of course I was going to have empathy for him.
54:19
Of course I was going to have empathy for his family.
54:20
But when I heard what happened, and then my my homegirl, Lisa, sent me the goddamn video, and I don't watch stuff like that, but I didn't know what it was, so I clicked on it and watched it.
54:31
And I didn't think I was going to have empathy for the guy who actually shot Nipsey.
54:35
But I did, and that was a strange feeling for me.
54:40
And the reason I had empathy is because I understand that that brother was in some type of pain. Hurt people hurt people.
54:45
And if we don't start healing each other to deal with that hurt, all we're going to do is redistribute that pain to other people, and that's what happened that day.
54:55
That was a redistribution of pain.
54:56
So, Nipsey was a loving brother, he was a brother that put out good energy. It didn't matter.
55:02
It goes back to what I said earlier, sometimes you run into negative people, sometimes you run into evil people, sometimes you run into people who haven't healed at all, and all they want to do is hurt you.
55:12
So, it's just like when I saw that, I just had a different feeling of of empathy, you know, for and I I never felt that way before.
55:19
I never thought I would feel that way about somebody like him.
55:23
But it just really made me say, "Man, I just I just want to go on this just this mission of like just helping brothers really, really heal."
55:31
Like I've been out here talking about mental health and investing in your mental wealth, but no, like I really, really got to go out here and and help brothers heal, you know what I mean?
55:39
So we can stop hurting each other. Yeah, absolutely, man.
55:42
When you're when you're hurt, you end up cutting people who didn't make you bleed. Right? Powerful, yeah. We do that all the time.
55:48
When we're hurt, when we're wounded, we going to cut others even though they didn't do anything to us.
55:52
We bleed we bleed on people who didn't cut us. Yeah, absolutely, man. Absolutely.
55:57
Charlamagne, you incredible, man.
55:57
This has been one of my favorite conversations, honestly.
56:01
You really brought your energy, man. I loved it. an hour already. Yeah, man.
56:05
It's been an hour already.
56:05
I I would I've got like a million more questions to ask you.
56:07
So we got to do round two.
56:08
But thank you so much and everyone who's been listening or watching, make sure you share your insights on Instagram, tag both of us, anything that you learned, anything that you gained, share it with your communities.
56:18
There's so many great talking points in this conversation.
56:22
Make sure you get those insights.
56:22
Make sure you get them out there.
56:23
Make sure you subscribe and rate to the podcast.
56:26
Make sure you go find out where Charlamagne and Charlamagne, where's the best place that you'd like them to come find you?
56:30
Um I'm on Instagram @cthagod, c t h a g o d.
56:32
I'm on Twitter @cthagod, c t h a g o d. Absolutely, man.
56:35
Go grab my books, Shook One, Anxiety Playing Tricks on Me, and Black Privilege Opportunity Comes to Those Who Created It, both national bestsellers.
56:44
Absolutely, go get those, guys.
56:44
We'll put those links in the bottom as well.
56:47
Thank you so much, Charlamagne. Honestly, man.
56:48
My brother, thank you, man. I appreciate it. a pleasure, man. Awesome.
56:50
If you want even more videos just like this one, make sure you subscribe and click on the boxes over here.
56:56
I'm also excited to let you know that you can now get my book Think Like a Monk from thinklikeamonkbook. com.
57:05
Check below in the description to make sure you order today.