0:04
Breakthrough artist of the year. Song of the year. Album of the year. Three. It's amazing. Congratulations. Thank you. It's good to see you. You as well.
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0:15
Yeah, thanks for having me. Of course.
0:16
I always really enjoy catching up and talking about music with you.
0:19
You know, I know how much it means to you.
0:22
Um the first conversation I had in 2021 was with you. Mhm.
0:26
And the song had been out for a day, 2 days, and it was already changing your life and I could tell. Yeah.
0:31
You think about that time in the first week of January and how much has changed and how far you've gone.
0:35
What does that first week in January look like to you looking back on it now?
0:40
That, you know, first week was so surreal and you're actually like the first interview that I did for driver's license which I think is pretty cool.
0:45
That's pretty cool for me as well.
0:46
I'm very happy that it worked out that way. First is good.
0:49
But uh yeah, uh I think my whole life was just like changing in an instant and I don't think like my success by any means was like overnight, but it was it was truly just like oh, like yeah, like an actor on a show to like oh my gosh, like the song that you wrote is just like completely everywhere and like affecting so many people and that happened super quickly and so um yeah, I don't know.
1:09
I still really haven't processed that sort of immediacy, but um yeah, it's pretty amazing and Did you physically feel energy like in a weird way knowing that it was being listened to that much and people respond the way they were not actually just like in the in the messages on social media, but did you feel a shift?
1:27
I think it was really cathartic for me because that song was so personal and such an intimate part of my experience and my heart and so putting it out in general and just like letting it go and being like this is the world's now, this is not mine was like such an important like part of my healing journey and to like watch other people relate to it made me feel so much more like less alone.
1:47
alone. I think that's a really beautiful thing about music is that, you know, we all have these sort of shared experiences and sometimes we think that oh no, like going through this alone and nobody else feels the exact way that I
1:56
feel and just watching the way that Driver's License affected people made me realize that you know I wasn't alone in all of those feelings and we're all sort of this big human community experiencing all these feelings together. So
2:06
So Yeah, but you know that that's a brief moment when you realize that you're not alone and then it becomes I'd imagine this thing where all of your most personal therapeutic experiences, the desire to get past this pain to get into like a clearing again is becomes challenging because you're being reminded all the time about these songs that you wrote 6 months a year ago and it's like I'm sure you're not the same person.
2:30
I'm sure you've already moved on.
2:32
So how does that change your relationship with that music?
2:35
Do you have to detach yourself almost a little bit from it? That's a great question.
2:40
Um I I like to think of songs like tattoos sometimes.
2:44
I don't have any tattoos but I'm like obsessed with people who do have tattoos.
2:46
I always ask them I'm like oh like do you like them still and they're like you know what?
2:49
Like I don't really like them anymore but it represents like this point in time of my life and like that's forever like immortalized on my skin and I think that's beautiful.
2:58
I think songs are the same way.
2:59
I think those those songs represent exactly how I was feeling at that time and those feelings of mine are totally going to change and I might look back in like 10 years and be like why did I say that?
3:07
It was so cheesy and dramatic or something like that.
3:10
you almost it's like you welcome that.
3:11
Even in the opening song on the album like Brutal Yeah.
3:14
you're laying it out in full awareness that that you will look back at 27 and say like I'm sick of being 17 where's my you know teenage dream.
3:21
Like you can't feel that way at 27 but it's like you know that's going to be the case, right?
3:27
Like you're embracing that side of it.
3:29
Yeah, and it's so beautiful.
3:29
It's just like a time capsule of your life.
3:31
That song is an entire time capsule of the entire album. Yeah, I think so.
3:34
That's what I tried to do is thank you. Yeah, I know it is.
3:36
I mean the intro song it just lays it all out.
3:37
It's like the intro to the movie.
3:39
It's like everything that you're going to experience in more granular detail is laid out right here.
3:42
I'm sick of being this sick of being that da da da blah blah blah.
3:45
Where were you when you wrote that song?
3:47
Uh it was like 2 weeks before we had to turn the album in.
3:49
So it was like kind of this like mad dash to finish the song I love.
3:52
I love it when you have like restrictions to your creativity.
3:54
I think that like makes it so much better.
3:56
And also when you feel like you've you're over the hump of what an album is and it's like well, I have this sort of creative space now.
4:01
It's like the pressure's off.
4:03
Yeah, a little bit of freedom.
4:03
And I was with my collaborator Dan and he like played that riff like as a joke and I was like, "I love that.
4:08
Like let's write something to that."
4:11
And I had like written in my notes app like a week earlier like it's brutal out here cuz I heard someone say that in a conversation. I thought that was cool.
4:17
And so, but yeah, like you said I wanted to write like a prom song for the album and that's what it became.
4:21
Let's just talk about the making of the album cuz that's why we're here. Album of the year.
4:24
What are your feelings when you reflect upon that time making that record with Dan?
4:28
Yeah, I mean it's so fun.
4:28
I think music is just supposed to be fun and it's supposed to feel good and it's supposed to just connect with you and and be this thing for yourself first of all, I think.
4:37
You know, putting it out and having it resonate with people is amazing, but I think writing songs should first and foremost always be for you.
4:43
And so, yeah, it was a great time and I learned so much about myself and about working with other people and you know, what I want to say and how I want to say it.
4:50
So, yeah, I'll I'll take those lessons that I learned while making sour with me for my whole life.
4:55
Were there moments when you were writing the songs getting ready to perform them when the over analysis kicked in and you wondered whether or not you should say what you say cuz it's an incredibly honest vulnerable record.
5:03
It deals with the idea of heartache in a very real way.
5:09
And not everyone has the courage to follow through with that in such detail.
5:14
So, how did you find the courage to do that?
5:16
I think that was the beauty of making a record in the pandemic a little bit.
5:17
And also, I think that's a fun thing about making your first record is you're kind of like not caught up in it being consumed.
5:24
You're kind of just like writing how you feel and writing to get it out.
5:27
And I don't know, I've never been worried about writing like vulnerably like that.
5:31
I've always been such an over sharer.
5:32
And it's actually been like people around me who are like, "Okay, Olivia, like tone it down a little.
5:36
Maybe you shouldn't say that like in public or something like that."
5:39
So, yeah, but I I I love writing like really brutally honest songs.
5:44
And how did your parents react to that because there's a couple of ways that can happen, right?
5:47
The more traditional way is to try to keep you focused and keep you in the school system and like, you know, it's great you love music and everything, Olivia, but at the end of the day, your education really matters and that's a fair It's a fair road map for some people.
5:59
But, you tell me, like, how did your parents react to your talent?
6:02
Did they realize at that moment in time that it was something worth nurturing alongside education?
6:08
Or were they sort of taking a more traditional route?
6:09
How did they relate to you? Yeah.
6:11
Um my mom's a teacher and, you know, education has been always been a super important part of my life, but my parents are really lovely in the way that they actually like never applied any pressure to me in, you know, school or music or career or anything.
6:25
And um so it was just like me motivating myself and I think that was such an important lesson for me to learn growing up and, you know, I'm I'm like my harshest critic and I'm the person who's always pushing me and I think had I had other people doing that to me from a young age, I might have like resented it and not been so passionate about what I was doing.
6:43
So, I'm really lucky that my parents gave me that freedom.
6:46
So, how did you find your way into the performing arts, which is different to being an artist?
6:48
I mean, being in the performing arts, whether it's on television, on stage, whatever, is a sense of performance first.
6:53
Now, we know you was I now think of you as a songwriter first.
6:56
Like, whatever you choose to do now on screen is up to you and will be fantastic, but I now know you as a songwriter.
7:01
That's why we're sitting here with these awards, right, ready to go. Yeah.
7:05
So, um how did you find yourself sort of on screen?
7:07
Why did it was it in that order? I don't know.
7:10
I think it was just meant to be.
7:11
I think that was just the universe's way of guiding me here, but uh I always loved performing and I loved being expressive and I just loved emotions and channeling emotions.
7:18
Um and so, when anytime I would like sing at a talent show, I would just be like so like crazy and out there and expressive.
7:25
And so, my mom put me in acting lessons because of that and just sort of uh that sort of took off first, but I I think songwriting's always been my first love and that's the thing that I identify the most with and take the most seriously in my life. So.
7:36
So, how are you when you're not performing like the way that you talk about it is that when you sort of get put in that environment, it comes naturally just naturally for you to want to express yourself and and to perform.
7:46
So, do you have times when you're still and how are you in your own company like Yeah.
7:50
I think that's the most important thing as a creative person is carving out time to be by yourself.
7:54
I think sometimes like boredom is like the catalyst for a lot of great like art and creation.
8:01
And so, I think that's really important to take time to like have stillness in your day and something I'm still working on cutting out. Yeah.
8:11
And that's probably that's probably a lot of that going on right now.
8:13
How is the schedule at the moment? It's good, you know.
8:15
I'm I'm living the dream. I'm doing a lot. that question.
8:19
Okay, you just like I'm saying words come out like it's intense. Yeah, yeah.
8:24
It's intense but um it's amazing, you know.
8:26
I've wanted this since, you know, I was little so can't complain at all. Which part? Which part did you want?
8:32
Like now you've got a lot of the the sort of quote unquote constructs of of what makes a successful record and album. People love your music.
8:38
What is the What have you learned are the most valuable parts of that equation? Mhm.
8:46
Um I think all of it just comes down to your relationship with yourself.
8:49
I think me prioritizing that from the beginning has really been like a like a savior to me.
8:56
Um and also like being able to determine your own success and not letting other people like determine it for you.
9:06
Um I'm like so happy if I think that I did the best job I could possibly do.
9:10
If I did that, I'm like set and anyone could criticize and I'd be like, you know what?
9:15
I did the best thing I could possibly do. That's enough.
9:18
Um and so, I think by having me be like my toughest critic and like just wanting to do that, it like kind of alleviates all of the other pressure and noise.
9:26
Um all the ingredients on the album are really interesting to me because there's heavy things and there's and it's a very modern sounding record but there's also these really traditional very kind of timeless sounds.
9:34
And the acoustic guitar, the piano plays a really significant role on this.
9:38
What's your relationship like with those instruments?
9:40
Like do you play piano in your downtime?
9:41
Are you Are you Do you try and teach yourself to get better?
9:44
Like how do you relate to the musical side of what you do?
9:47
I play piano and guitar and I'm not like really classically trained or excellent at either of them and I kind of like it that way. this, right?
9:55
Yeah, and it's just like you're like figuring stuff out like while you're writing and I think that's super fun and it's like always keeps it exciting.
9:59
Um and like you know, if I like and like playing piano too much and I'm like just doing the same chords and I just like go to guitar and it's like it's completely new instrument that I have to figure out and then it's just like I don't know. It's It's fun that way.
10:12
What song came easiest to you?
10:12
What was the one that really emerged with little or no barriers?
10:18
I love to think of like ideas and songs as these like sort of magical creatures sometimes are just like floating through the ether and you're just like we're just vessels for art.
10:26
That's really what we are. vessels.
10:28
Um and I think sometimes you really do have to like work hard to like make that idea a real thing and you know, I there's definitely been some songs that I've written that have like been painstaking to write and that's totally fine and valid, but um some songs are just like whoop and then they're like right into the world and Like what? Like Happier was one.
10:44
Happier I wrote like the chorus and the verse like in like 10 minutes or something.
10:49
It was just like all like it came really easily.
10:52
It had to because that moment when you incorporate the word happier into the chorus for the first time is so crazy cuz it's like it it works beautifully with all the words that work before it, but the phrasing is so unique like I want you to be happy, but not happier and the way you got it in there was just crazy.
11:08
Was that just a pure accident?
11:10
You were sitting there and it just came to you like that?
11:12
Yeah, I was literally on set like for an acting thing and like they like called cut and I was like sitting in like the wings and I was like, oh my god.
11:20
Like and I just thought of it and I like remember like grabbing my phone and like recording the voice memo. I don't know.
11:25
It was just like such a such a like a magical moment.
11:26
I think that's like the one of the most exciting parts about songwriting is like moments like that.
11:32
Yeah, when you know you got something you got to build on it.
11:34
Do you find finishing songs fun, hard, challenging?
11:38
Uh, I think a lot of the time I really love starting a song and like having the initial idea and bringing it to other people that can like kind of like I can bounce ideas off of and help me refine that and finish it into something, you know, that's like a more refined version of the initial idea, but yeah, I'm getting better at that.
11:55
It takes a lot of discipline. Can we talk about Dan?
11:58
I mean, he's it's it's really you and him from predominantly throughout the record.
12:03
He's he's obviously, you know, your your constant collaborator on this album and you know, we've seen this in great albums where an artist finds somebody who's just a kindred spirit and helps to just bring the music out and help it take shape.
12:14
How does that relationship work when you're in the creative process?
12:17
What's unique about him and why do you think you guys work so well together?
12:21
I love Dan because he's so honest with me.
12:24
I I trust his taste, first of all, which is is really important, but um he cares about being he cares about me enough to be like, "You can do better than that."
12:31
And I remember like the first time he did that being like, "Oh my god, that's the best."
12:34
Like that's how you get better is like being around someone who cares about you enough to help you like Is there an example?
12:40
Was there a song when he was like, "This could be better"?
12:43
When I played him "drivers license" for the first time I was like, "I love this song.
12:45
I think I wrote something amazing."
12:46
And he's like, "Yeah, that's great, but like you need to like finish the chorus.
12:50
The chorus isn't finished.
12:51
Like you can finish that."
12:51
And I was like, "Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah."
12:52
And like that's how I didn't even know what a half-finished chorus on "drivers license" sounds like.
12:57
It just sounds so fully formed just sick and you hear I'm really interested having lived with the album now for a long time on how you approach the sub narrative.
13:04
Once you get out of the back end of a chorus and you decide that you're going to add something else. You love a middle eight.
13:09
Like it's almost like you paint a new picture with that middle eight.
13:11
You give it a twist and a turn.
13:13
Is that one of your favorite things to do when you're writing?
13:14
Like, "How do I twist it midway through the song?" Sure. I mean, I love that.
13:17
I love when songs like take twists and turns like that and stuff that's unexpected.
13:23
Um, I think like the "drivers license" bridge is a great example of something right like kind of twist it.
13:27
And it's like it's unexpected but it's not like it doesn't like not fit. You know what I mean?
13:32
But you're not expecting to hear it and I think it's stuff like that that makes like listening to music as just a consumer really exciting.
13:37
So You know one of my favorite songs on the record is hope you're okay. Really?
13:42
I love that song and and because it's you know, it shows a side of you searching to inspire other people um and to give them hope which you do through your music through being honest about how you feel but it's like you're actually just offering support like this really unfiltered support for people who are kind of misunderstood.
14:00
Does that surprise you that I like that song? Little bit. I don't know.
14:04
It was it was definitely a different experience to write about something that um you know, I I it was just writing about other people's stories that I had like collected throughout my life.
14:13
And so that was cool to kind of take take a step back.
14:17
Um and I love songs that do that.
14:17
I love like folk songs and country songs that kind of tell a story that you're really separate from.
14:22
Um and so that's what I tried to do in that song and uh yeah, I I don't really ever look at like comments on like songs or like you know, social media things like that but I remember one time like looking at the YouTube comments of like a song that song in particular and it was just like so touching to see the way that that song affected people.
14:41
That was like really special to me and I like literally almost like cried reading through like some of the people like left their own stories about like what that song meant to them and that was really special and just yeah, a really important moment for me as a songwriter. You make a good point.
14:53
I think it's you have to be careful how much you expose yourself to other people's opinion.
14:57
You talk about it on brutal straight away after the day.
15:00
Um but at the same time it's it's sort of especially in the last 2 years it's one of the only ways you can connect to your audience and find out how it moves them and telling their stories.
15:08
So how do you walk that line?
15:10
Like how do you how do you know what to expose yourself to or not? I mean it's tricky.
15:13
I think social media today everything is just so oversaturated and I think music is um one of the places that you can truly be yourself in a very real authentic way. Mhm.
15:24
I Cuz I don't know, on social media you can overshare and overshare and overshare, but there's just something about it that's just like lacks the humanity that music has.
15:32
And so, yeah, I guess I try to, you know, share the most of myself through my music and like save it save it for that and stuff.
15:40
Do you use social media though?
15:40
Are you as addicted as everybody else? I mean, yes, definitely. It's It's addicting.
15:44
It's designed to be that way, but um I try to keep keep it down to a minimum.
15:49
It's just like I get distracted when I go on it for so long, though.
15:52
You know, one of the things that we bonded over about the record when we when we talked about it on the day it came out was um how it it it it shares a sort of a DNA with Jagged Little Pill in the sense that it was an album made by an incredibly talented young female singer-songwriter openly expressing herself and just putting it all out there through the music.
16:13
And that album has traveled for decades with people and and is is a stone-cold classic.
16:17
I think SOUR is that record for today.
16:19
And you got a chance to spend time with Alanis when you did the Rolling Stone piece. So, how was that? That was incredible. I I was all the stories. Oh my god.
16:31
I've looked up to Alanis for so long.
16:31
Um and I'm so inspired by her songwriting.
16:37
I remember like listening to Jagged Little Pill and like certain songs on Jagged Little Pill when I was younger, like a like a young like 12 or something like that.
16:44
And I remember my mom like playing them on the radio and me being like, "Mom, oh my god, like people can like say that in songs?
16:49
Like that's okay for people to say?"
16:51
It was like just such a like Yeah.
16:54
like a lightbulb moment for me.
16:54
And uh yeah, it was just it was just super cool to talk to her about that.
16:59
And something interesting that I took away from that experience was I told her I was like, "Yeah, I think that's like so brave of you to say like all of the things that you said."
17:06
And she's like, "Is it brave?
17:08
I don't think it's brave at all.
17:08
I was just saying what I felt.
17:09
Like maybe it's brave to put it out there, but I don't I don't really think so."
17:13
And I I the thing that I realized is that the actual brave thing is being honest enough with yourself to like say that to yourself.
17:18
I think putting it out is, you know, not as hard as it is to like be honest with yourself. Does that make sense?
17:26
It does make total sense and it's it's an amazing lesson to learn because I think, you know, the execution of that is something that that that through being programmed by fear, we worry about as human beings.
17:36
Like how far am I willing to put myself out there?
17:39
And for Lanas to say to you and for you not to say to the world like you know what?
17:43
That's not actually the scary part.
17:45
The scary part is the internal dialogue, right? Yeah, definitely. Yeah.
17:49
You haven't really done any shows.
17:51
You've done a few here and there, but you've you haven't toured.
17:53
You haven't actually gone out there and done a tour.
17:57
Um, and I'm not fishing around for news, but I do want to know how it's felt.
18:03
I guess easier because we've all been quarantined, but also to know that your music is traveling and finding fans everywhere and you haven't been able to really meet them. Like how has that been? Yeah, I mean it's crazy.
18:13
I just think it's like totally different to see numbers on a phone and be like, "Oh yeah, this many people are listening to my music." That's cool. even translate the math?
18:21
I don't think it really does.
18:21
I mean it's like cool it's to like see people that it really affects is something totally different.
18:26
Even just like as I'm going throughout my daily life, like getting a coffee and some girl's like, "I'm going through a breakup and like your record is really really helping me."
18:32
That means like so much more than any number on a screen could ever mean, you know?
18:35
your instinct at that moment?
18:35
Is your instinct to sit there and go, "That's fantastic.
18:38
God bless and I wish you the best." Or tell me all about it.
18:42
Oh my gosh, I don't know.
18:44
I I love to pry, so I don't know.
18:44
I I would welcome anyone's breakup stories if they wanted to come up to me and tell them to me in public, but yeah.
18:52
Does it happen a lot right now?
18:52
I mean, do you find yourself in a situation where you're going about your day and people are starting to recognize you more? Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Mhm.
18:59
Can you prepare yourself for that?
19:01
Is it something that you can kind of feel comfortable I mean, you you have to do a good job at just some degree because you want to connect with people, but it's also your it's it's who you are outside of who you are.
19:12
Yeah, and I think I think there is that sort of knowing in your head that, you know, like these people are like totally like love what I put out and that's so amazing and I feel so connected to them, but at the end of the day, the only people that are like really truly going to like deeply love you are the people who know you in your personal life.
19:26
I think that's something that I've always remembered.
19:30
And has success brought you even closer to that?
19:32
Do you value that inner circle of family and friends even more now? definitely.
19:35
And I think sometimes extreme highs and extreme lows also really like show you who your true friends are and who are the people who like really support you and are there for you.
19:44
And um so yeah, that's that's been an important learning lesson.
19:47
Have they been both since the album came out?
19:49
And do do you still have these moments when you don't necessarily feel like you have the answers even though success is currently right there in front of you?
19:56
Oh my gosh, yeah, completely. I mean, I'm like 18.
19:58
I don't I don't really Yeah.
20:01
know hardly anything about myself even or the world or like how I fit into all of it.
20:06
I'm just kind of just like doing what I like and following what um makes me happy right now, but who knows that might change.
20:14
So 2022 to some degree is about bringing the album to life. Mhm.
20:17
Um because we have it in our lives, but now you need to go and put it, you know, in front of people and play shows.
20:23
So, again, without giving away any detail cuz that's yours to hold, but um I'd imagine there are shows and you want to play shows at least. Yeah. Yeah.
20:32
Yeah, I think that's a really special thing.
20:34
I remember going and seeing Lorde's Melodrama at the Staples Center with like two of my like friends that I've grown up with since I was in elementary school.
20:43
And just like bawling my eyes out at the experience that she created.
20:45
Like she cultivated this whole experience and you could just feel it in your body and with the visuals and the sounds and the everything just like heightened the album so much for me and I remember walking out of the Staples Center and being like, I want to like cultivate an experience for someone like that.
20:58
That's just like the highest form of art to me is like a concert. So, the sour experience.
21:05
I mean, you must have been thinking about that for most of this year in your own way, subconsciously or consciously, how you're going to bring the album to life. Yeah. It's going to be crazy.
21:15
I mean, the videos have already kind of paved the way a little bit, and I think through your videos, you know, you've shown a darker side to the album as well, which is really interesting.
21:21
Um, and you're unafraid to present the ugly side of SOUR. Do you know what I mean?
21:26
And I wonder whether or not that's kind of that's going to continue because the videos have been incredible. Definitely. Thank you. Yeah.
21:31
Um, and I love like visuals like that. It's so much fun.
21:36
I remember when I like first signed to my label and like had my first single and they're like, "Okay, music video, what do you want to do?"
21:43
I was like, "I can just like choose?
21:44
Like I can like make up whatever I want to do and you guys are like give me money to like make it and film it?
21:49
That's the coolest thing ever."
21:49
And so I've just like fallen so in love with making visuals that kind of augment the songs that I've written.
21:54
I think it's just like one of the most fun parts about I mean, you're in the visual arts and now you're an artist and then you have all this trust and the success.
21:59
Would you ever want to direct and do something like that yourself? Gosh, maybe. Yeah. Um, I'd love to do that.
22:05
I'm still learning every day, but I think it'll be fun one day.
22:09
How has SOUR changed for you?
22:09
From the minute that you wrote it, thinking about that record now and who you are, what does that album represent to you?
22:15
What do What do you hear when you hear that album?
22:20
I remember there was a distinct moment in my life when that album went from something that was really depressing and sad to me to something that represented like triumph.
22:29
Um, and that was really special.
22:31
I remember actually putting out driver's license and it had like actually like just gone number one or something like that.
22:37
I remember I was driving around and I was like blasting the song and I had like obviously driven around my neighborhood crying to like other songs that like I wrote wrote about in the song.
22:48
Um, I remember driving around and like blasting it and like smiling and feeling like such intense joy and like pride in like the work that I created.
22:55
And so, um, yeah, I think that's really special for that to turn into something that I'm really proud of instead of, you know, a feeling that I was ashamed about.
23:05
Success is the best revenge.
23:11
Well, listen, congratulations.
23:11
Um it goes without saying that 2021 has, in many respects, been the year of Sour.
23:19
Um you know, the quality of the songwriting and and just the honesty of your performance and all the steps that you've taken to support that record tastefully has just made for kind of like it's a pennant year.
23:30
Like, you know, you're just if you could win such a thing, you won it.
23:34
And so, album of the year, song of the year, breakthrough artist of the year so deservedly yours.
23:40
Thanks for taking some time to put a ribbon on this year and on this app. Record, appreciate it. Thanks for having me.