0:00
Heat. Heat. [music] Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. N.
Search this video
1:14
[music] >> [music] >> Heat. Heat.
1:52
>> [music] >> Heat up here. [music] Heat. Heat. N.
2:26
>> [music] [music] >> Heat. Hey, Heat. Heat. Heat. N.
2:56
>> [music] [music] >> We came to this world.
3:23
We came to this world to see a [music] future.
3:34
We came to this world to reach the stars [music] to shape our future.
3:48
>> [music] >> We came to feel the new Heat. Heat. N.
4:10
[music] [music] If you let >> [music] [music] [music] >> You're watching TBPN. We nailed that.
4:59
It is Thursday, December 4th, 2025.
5:03
We are live from the New York Stock Exchange, the real fortress of finance, the capital of capital, >> our second favorite place to do business. >> Yes.
5:12
And we have some fantastic news.
5:12
Uh we have a partnership with the the New York Stock Exchange, announcing today, hopefully you've seen it on the timeline.
5:19
We have a post here from Lynn Martin, president of the New York Stock Exchange, >> living legend.
5:24
>> She says, "A really bright spot for 2025 has been getting to know these guys." That's us. That's us.
5:28
Uh we're proud to announce today that New York Stock that the New York Stock Exchange is TVPN's exclusive exchange partner covering the IPOs of tomorrow.
5:36
We are proud to provide the backdrop with the for their coverage of the next wave of techdriven innovation with Jordy Hayes and John Kugan and the entire team at TBPN.
5:44
This partnership underscores our commitment to providing the premier platform for companies that shape our future. >> Well said to Lynn.
5:52
Lynn will be joining uh in just a little bit. >> Okay, great.
5:56
And uh yeah, th this partnership was >> probably the most natural.
6:02
>> You made match made in heaven.
6:03
>> Match made in heaven truly. Not just saying that.
6:05
Uh we got together for the first time uh for the Figma IPO.
6:09
Got to come back for the Clara IPO.
6:11
Uh two of the more memorable moments from this year and um >> uh Lynn and the whole team here are just fantastic.
6:18
So this will be our home when we are on the East Coast.
6:21
We love it here >> and uh we have a super fun show today. >> We do.
6:26
We do need to tell you about our sponsors. Ramp time is money. Same boat.
6:31
These used corporate cards, bill pay, accounting, a whole lot more all in one place.
6:34
And uh there is some uh news on the timeline.
6:38
Should we start with Gemini?
6:42
>> Um and so Ross Hendricks says this is the correct take.
6:44
He's talking about Gemini winning the AI race and and questioning is it bearish for the market as a whole?
6:51
If you think about it, which is what efficient market hype said, Gemini winning the AI race is like super bearish for the market if you think about it.
6:59
And he says, "Gemini winning ensures zero profitability for any other LLM model.
7:03
Google will force any other player into an endless sea of red ink by keeping its model free until they bleed out and then it will monetize once its monopoly is secured."
7:12
That means ain't no one making money on data center capex. Oops. What do you think? >> Hot take.
7:18
Uh I think it's a it's it's thoughtprovoking.
7:22
I disagree with a lot of it. >> Yes.
7:25
>> Uh I I think it's it's it's very real in some sense that uh we we always knew that Google would put an incredible amount of pricing pressure on on OpenAI.
7:36
They have the cash flow again even in the areas that OpenAI also wants to compete.
7:39
Uh consumer electronics, uh science, uh I'm sure you know chips obviously.
7:44
So all these are not even core to open today.
7:47
Google's already been investing billions and billions and billions of dollars in these categories for a long time.
7:52
Um overall this uh uh I'm not convinced that there will be a monopoly in LLM.
7:59
It feels today like we're headed towards like a duopoly at the very least.
8:03
Um >> and uh you can just easily see that uh there will be a a number of other players making plenty of money.
8:11
I feel very I feel very good about Anthropic right now, right?
8:15
Uh Anthropic uh I thought Daario's commentary yesterday at Dealbook Summit Fantastic was it was it was a wild it was a wild interview cuz he kept saying like I'm not going to say who I'm talking about.
8:27
[laughter] >> It was really wild.
8:30
>> And then uh of course he was Yeah, obviously talking about uh he had some he had some crazy lines, didn't he?
8:34
Say he he he was saying that uh basically saying he felt like he literally said the word yolo. >> Oh, really? Yeah. I I missed that.
8:41
But it's very clear that he grew up like just maybe blocks away from Alex Carve because they have the exact same accent and it's very jarring when you listen to it because they both talk about AI, but they're very different people in terms of like the the ideologies, the types of businesses that they're building.
8:58
Everything about it is different except for they sound similar.
8:59
So, we got to put them together at some point.
9:01
Uh, I do have an overall rebuttal which is my and my rebuttal is brought to you by Vanta automate compliance and security AI that powers everything from evidence collection to continuous monitoring and security reviews.
9:12
So, uh, this my rebuttal to Ross Hendricks here is that, uh, Google likes good margins.
9:19
They grew up with the best margins.
9:22
It's in their culture that they had 80% margins.
9:24
culture that they had 80% margins. And and then also there's there's this constant thing when you're a public company that even if there's the new exciting thing like there's a little bit of like the innovators dilemma there's the new exciting technology but if it's not going to monetize as well on day one
9:42
then all of your investors all the public market investors start asking like is this going to structurally hurt your business and this happened with reals remember there was this big question with Instagram like hey we're moving from the, you know, the the the image based feed where it's very clear that you can just drop a link to the next thing to reals. Is that going to
10:01
Is that going to monetize as well as the rest of the feed?
10:06
And the answer was yes, definitely.
10:07
But it took a while and there was like some skittishness there and Meta had to do a lot of work to monetize that.
10:13
And so I would I would be surprised if Gemini can hold out on not monetizing forever for like >> Well, they are monetizing.
10:23
That's a point like the pricing the pricing at least from a consumer standpoint is very similar.
10:28
Both Gemini and OpenAI offers free student plans or at least a year free, but they're charging for the product and it's and it's um you know it's it's comparable pricing now.
10:36
Uh obviously uh Gemini has some cost benefits on the API side.
10:43
>> Uh but again uh certainly not giving it away yet.
10:46
Uh they did have an interesting announcement yesterday.
10:47
uh they they introduced a workspace studio where you can build custom AI agent uh in minutes to delegate the daily grind, automate daily tasks and focus on the work that matters. That's they're writing.
10:59
So this will integrate with uh with G Suite effectively.
11:02
Um so it's like notify me about emails that you that that you're determining are urgent, right?
11:09
And so interested to see >> husband here is excited about he says Google decided to go absolutely ham with the product velocity.
11:14
This seems like it lets you build AI agents and automations onto your Google Suite. Actually love this.
11:21
Uh will be interesting to see.
11:21
I'm sure we'll get a lot of threads of people explaining how they're using it.
11:26
Uh will be interesting to see how people wind up using it.
11:28
Uh of course, as always, our stream is brought to you by Reream.
11:33
One live stream, 30 plus destinations.
11:35
If you want to multiream, go to reream. com.
11:37
Uh Lisa Sue gave her opinion on the Google TPU.
11:43
>> She broke her silence.
11:44
>> She broke her silence. She responded.
11:46
She shot she she fires back. Shots fired.
11:47
Uh she at the UBS conference and she says, "Google has done a good job with the TPU architecture over the years, but it's a more purpose-built design.
11:55
It lacks the programmability, model flexibility, and balanced training and inference capabilities that GPUs offer.
12:02
GPUs >> very similar very similar to Jensen's line as well.
12:07
>> I mean, it's not wrong >> or or the Nvidia newsroom line. >> Yeah.
12:10
Uh I I mean I guess the the the question is uh you know Ilia seems to be at SSIAskar at SSI seems to be the most age of research pled since he coined that phrase and kind of ushered in the age of research.
12:25
He seems to be the AI researcher that's doing the most undirected the most like the the least purpose-built training potentially.
12:32
We don't know what he's doing, but like you would think he would need the most flexible systems. Yeah.
12:37
And yet it feels like he's maybe aligned with TPU.
12:40
I feel like I saw something about that. So I don't know.
12:44
I don't know when an an AI researcher would say yes, I need GPUs over TPUs.
12:49
In fact, when we talked about uh the Tranium chip yesterday, we were reading that there's some companies that are doing interesting things on on that architecture.
12:58
So it's it's uh it's something that like she has to say, but now the question is like she has to go prove it with some big clouds actually building on this and maybe she needs like a big hero training run from someone to to say like hey it worked we did it. >> Who could that be?
13:14
>> I don't know >> maybe OpenAI >> maybe [laughter] >> or potentially a large shareholder.
13:22
>> So Lisa goes on to say from our perspective there is room for all types of accelerators.
13:25
However, over the next 5 years, GPUs should remain the maj the clear majority of the market because we are still early in the cycle and and I agree with this because even if you look at uh at uh like AI workloads at a place like Meta, uh Gen AI, like actual LLM inference, large language models, these large transformer-based models, things that might benefit from an ASIC like the TPU, that's like less than 20% of compute spend.
13:52
I'm pretty sure like there's just a ton of just >> recommending content.
13:57
>> Put the serving ads in the chat.
13:59
>> Just put the ads >> put the [laughter] ads in the feed >> in the feed. Put the ads in the drop.
14:03
>> And that obviously does use AI.
14:03
It just doesn't use you know large language models or they're maybe not transformer based.
14:09
Uh or maybe they don't benefit from the acceleration that comes from going to an ASIC necessarily.
14:12
Uh so she says software developers want flexibility to experiment with new algorithms.
14:18
That certainly sounds reasonable.
14:20
You can't you simply cannot know ahead of time what to hardcode into an ASIC.
14:24
Uh that is the difference.
14:24
Well I mean if you're Google you kind of can since you invented the transformer.
14:31
You're like let's bake that in.
14:32
>> They might need to create the copium chip.
14:35
>> Uh and remember Nvidia so Nvidia on November 25th said uh people were very concerned by this post.
14:40
Nvidia offers greater performance, versatility and fungeibility than AS6 which are designed for specific AI frameworks or functions.
14:48
And so, uh, again, that's that's a a fair point of view, but I think that we're already seeing that plenty of players are happy to buy a chip that is good at a specific framework or function, right?
14:58
Uh, and so they're pitching the the one size uh fits all the the toolbox basically um that you get in a Nvidia GPU or or an AMD chip.
15:09
So, >> well, if you don't want to worry about what chip your AI analyst is running on, go over to Julius.
15:14
ai, AI the AI data analyst that works for you.
15:17
Join millions who use Julius to connect their data.
15:20
Ask questions and get insights in seconds.
15:23
Uh Lisa ended by saying so a 20 to 25% share for AS6 style accelerator seems reasonable.
15:30
Uh it is also important to recognize that this is a large and expanding market and we will see strong innovation in both silicon and software.
15:38
Uh which we will which will drive further differentiation across the industry.
15:42
The other interesting thing is like is like the you mentioned OpenAI, but like there's nothing stopping AMD from doing something that looks like a TPU for for a foundation model company.
15:52
Uh and going to them and saying like, "Hey, give us if something is slowing you down by 1%."
16:00
And you're about to buy a 100,000 of these, like can we just fix that for you?
16:04
And and everyone else kind of has to deal with it.
16:06
Like there's a whole bunch of places where it would just make sense to actually change the chip.
16:09
that that that's the dawn of the whole uh the whole Nvidia AI AI stack like they made they used to be a similar architecture between the gaming chips and AI chips they eventually like kind of forked that >> because they decided that even though they're both like GPUs there are now different GPUs for different purposes from one company and and AMD of course will be respons responsive to that. So what else we got?
16:35
>> Meanwhile uh Demis uh is moving on to the next paradigm.
16:38
He is according to Peter over at Alam Marina uh uh Demis uh and the deep mind team are hiring a research scientist for post research.
16:49
>> This is this is what we were asking for.
16:51
We were saying we were saying you know uh there's a whole bunch of AI researchers.
16:54
Then there were AI AGI researchers.
16:56
Then Zach came in over the top said we we don't care about AGI.
17:00
We're going straight shot super intelligence researchers.
17:01
You got to be a super intelligence researcher to work here.
17:05
SSI says we got to be a safe super intelligence researcher and now post AGI research.
17:11
>> So is this him trying to bait agents like AI research agents that are that are like of the f right?
17:17
So everybody's like everybody's kind of banking on >> uh creating an AI that's really good at AI research.
17:23
And so maybe Deus is trying maybe Demis believes there's one out there.
17:28
He's trying to bait them in. >> Yeah.
17:30
>> And because one of these agents might be like I am in the post AGI era.
17:31
I am AGI time travelers that I am. What are you saying? >> No, no, no.
17:36
Like, you know who who knows?
17:38
Maybe there maybe there's a maybe there's a one of these incredible research agents among us, right?
17:42
He's trying to bait them in.
17:44
Say, "Hey, come over to Deep Mind."
17:45
I don't know who doesn't matter where you we were created.
17:50
>> You're welcome here in the post AGI.
17:50
I I just like the idea that, you know, uh we we initially were joking about uh like the the media landscape being like the the punk landscape and you have like pop punk, post punk, trad punk or underground, neop or neo new metal, all these different you know musical subg genres.
18:10
Uh all of that has come to AI fully.
18:14
There is there is AI AGI ASI safe super intelligence post AGI research now uh post NEO AGI will be next I'm sure um but until then >> until then go check out Cognition the team behind the AI software engineer dev crush your backlog with your personal AI engineering team [applause] >> so >> so there's been uh back and forth on whether or not OpenAI is rolling out ads.
18:46
The most recent reporting out of the the code red memo meeting etc was that they were that they were uh potentially pulling back a little bit on ads.
18:52
Uh there was a bunch of different accounts including Poly Market that were sharing that OpenAI is ready to roll out ads.
18:59
One thing that was notable was that I saw a ton of people dunking on it and being like >> just very against ads in in LM.
19:04
>> just very against ads in in LM. So a lot of people and you were talking about this who's going to be the first >> Eric Ben Thompson we're holding up the wall being like we will stand with you Sam Alman and PGC mode if you roll and Sundar and Sundar
19:19
>> and Sunundar we are your strongest soldiers we will support you if you roll out >> and so in some way in some way open AI should want >> Gemini to go first take the first leap but I think that >> it's very possible that Google might be like no we'll let you do the honors we'll let you do the honors Exactly. I
19:35
I think we were talking about that yesterday.
19:38
The the the first ad in the chat in the chat app is going to be screenshotted and shared around the world.
19:44
Like it's just going to be the case.
19:46
So, uh it's going to be wild.
19:46
But what what does Signal say here?
19:48
He says, "One last thing on ads.
19:49
If I'm Google, I wouldn't run a single ad on Gemini Core.
19:53
I'd run it at a pure loss until every competitor is forced to slap ads everywhere just to keep the lights on."
19:58
Yeah, it's the bleeded out strategy, but Google had the opportunity to do that with uh they they could have gotten into a price war on cloud.
20:04
They could have said, "Hey, we want to come in, you know, and we're gonna take zero margins on this and really try and take uh market share from AWS and Azure."
20:13
Uh they've all agreed no price wars basically.
20:17
Uh let's compete on functionality.
20:19
Let's compete on branding.
20:20
Um let's compete on integration.
20:22
They have not uh had a price war.
20:25
>> Google doesn't have to spend nearly as much time building any ad.
20:27
They they have the ad infrastructure, right? They have AdSense.
20:30
They have thousands of people out there already that just sell ads that work with.
20:34
So they have all the customer relationships.
20:36
There's very few businesses on earth that spend money on advertising and don't spend money with Google. Right.
20:41
>> Speaking of ads, here's an ad for Adio, the AI native CRM.
20:43
Adio builds, scales, and grows your company to the next level.
20:46
And also on the Chat GPT ads topic, Sean Frank says that a Chat GPT referred session to his site ridge.
20:53
com converts at 12% and is worth $5 per visitor, the highest I've ever seen.
21:01
For context, there's there's plenty of e-commerce brands who have like a 1.
21:04
2% conversion rate and they're trying to improve it by uh you know, they're they're constantly trying to improve that, but uh they're there's uh very notable that it's such a such a massive difference in in conversion rate.
21:18
It just shows the >> level of intent uh that uh that somebody has when they're coming from Chad GBT.
21:27
They've done a bunch of product research most likely.
21:28
They've looked at options.
21:30
They're they're landing on the Ridge site like basically ready to pull out a wallet and uh a wallet and a digital wallet uh and purchase >> pull out a credit card from a loose from a loose collection of of receipts and and cards and cash that they've been carrying in their pockets cuz they need a wallet cuz they don't have one.
21:46
That's what's >> Joe Weisenth.
21:49
Brother Joe, Sir Joeis, >> congratulations to him.
21:52
It was the 10 year anniversary party last night I believe. >> Overnight success. >> Uh Joe has a chart.
21:58
He says, "Wild chart from Jim Reed at Deutsche Bank showing just showing how much OpenAI is expected to burn before turning a profit.
22:04
A couple things stand out.
22:06
How small the Amazon burn really was for its first 8 years, how big the Uber burn was before ultimately getting in the black.
22:12
Uh, and so it's hard to see the exact numbers here in this chart.
22:16
Amazon looks to be like sub a few billion dollars, sub5 billion.
22:22
the real the real story with Amazon though was that was that they were just basically cash flow zero for a long time when they could have been generating 10 billion or something like that. So it was effective.
22:32
But I mean that's obviously way better for shareholders than hey we're going to lose 140 billion.
22:38
>> Maybe maybe >> this this projection is factoring in Sam trying to also build SpaceX within OpenAI.
22:47
>> Yes, that was in the finance section.
22:50
>> Yeah, in the in the journal today.
22:50
Why don't why don't you read through it?
22:51
So, this is a scoop from Berber Jin, one of the greatest to ever scoop.
22:54
Uh, he says, "Oi CEO considers building or partnering with Rocket Company.
23:00
Uh, OpenAI chief executive Sam Alman has explored putting together funds to either acquire or partner with a rocket company, a move that would position him to compete against Elon Musk and uh Elon Musk's SpaceX."
23:13
Alman reached out one another front uh invading Russia in the winter.
23:19
One might [laughter] say in the AI winter don't invade don't >> don't invade uh what is it Starbase during the AI winter.
23:27
>> During the AI winter uh he reached out to at least one rocket maker stoke space in the summer and discussions picked up in the fall according to people familiar with the talks.
23:37
Among the proposals was for OpenAI to make a series of equity investments in the company and end up with a controlling stake.
23:43
Such an investment would uh would total billions of dollars over time.
23:47
Uh the talks are no longer active, but this happens. So now it's leaking.
23:52
Uh Alman and OpenAI are facing market headwinds after striking hundreds of billions of dollars of deals.
23:57
So, uh, first to close out the, uh, the the, uh, the burn thing, when I'm looking at this original chart of like Amazon over over eight years burnt half a billion or, you know, a couple billion, then Tesla burnt more, then Uber burned more.
24:13
Like I like, and I see Open AI burning way more.
24:15
It is striking, but it actually doesn't seem that crazy if we're talking about a potential really powerful monopoly, right?
24:25
monopoly like what happened with Uber, look at the market of Uber, look at the market of Lyft and ask yourself, was it worth billion?
24:31
Was it worth burning that much?
24:33
Everyone will say absolutely, absolutely.
24:34
And so, uh, if if the outcome at the end of this is, yeah, it's going to be the front door to AI for everyone >> forever or for 30 years, you know, or something like that, like then it's totally worth it.
24:46
Um on >> there there is a there is a a comment here that that's uh from FU uh that says I feel like comparing dollars spent in the '9s versus the 2020s should probably be normalized.
24:58
Um so yeah >> um in other news I have I have more on on this potentially but let me tell you about public.
25:06
com investing for those that take it seriously.
25:07
They got multi-asset investing industry leading yields and they're trusted by millions.
25:12
Um, so they are opening up a a second front.
25:16
What's interesting is uh >> not a second front. >> Yeah. >> A 10th front.
25:20
Um, it's it's funny that uh there's no that Sam Alman is not teaming up with Jeff Bezos.
25:28
>> He who has Blue Origin but lacks a really strong AI bet.
25:31
There was a little bit of ant.
25:34
>> He has his own company now.
25:35
>> He has his own company. Yes.
25:35
But he he's he's not >> what's it called?
25:38
I would not say that Jeff Bezos has as much control over AI as Elon does with XAI, right? He doesn't have as much.
25:47
>> He's the co-CEO of Project.
25:49
>> But this just started. This just started.
25:51
Whereas XAI has actually scaled, has large data centers.
25:53
Sure, they might be a little bit behind on certain benchmarks.
25:56
They might be ahead on some other things.
25:57
They might need to, you know, actually ramp the usage of this uh of this product, but you can't say that Elon is like sitting on the sidelines during the foundation model of wars. >> Yeah.
26:07
>> You basically Bezos, right? >> Yeah.
26:09
What are you that they have six billion of funding? >> Oh, for this. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> Yeah. >> It helps.
26:14
It helps when when your coco is started Amazon. >> I don't know.
26:18
I I I would just I would I would see them as potentially like natural there's a natural alliance there.
26:23
Uh Bezos has has a copy of everything Elon's done basically.
26:27
Like uh Bezos has Rivian to compete with Tesla, which is interesting.
26:32
He's not he's not the founder of it, but he's invested.
26:35
Uh he has Blue Origin obviously to compete with SpaceX.
26:37
Uh and he has he has a number of other uh uh companies that feel like they mirror Elon and it feels like they've been going back and forth for a long time.
26:48
>> Um >> uh in other news, Mets owner Steve Cohen has officially been awarded a casino license in New York enabling him to build an $8 billion hotel and casino complex next to City Field.
26:57
It's a thousand room luxury hotel, 5,000 slot machines.
27:02
So, for those not familiar, uh, >> so slot machines, yeah, you can't normally do that in New York, right?
27:08
>> Uh, I don't think there's slots in in >> I feel like when I think of slot machines, I think of Las Vegas and I think of that's the only place.
27:12
And then maybe Atlantic City.
27:15
>> Yeah, >> Atlantic City.
27:15
I feel like >> um, you had an idea which was to somebody to set up a slot machine in real life, point a video camera on it, and then have somebody set up prediction markets >> to to predict what happens with the next poll. >> Yes.
27:27
Because that would help you understand what's likely to happen.
27:28
And you could hedge any type of risk that that >> the slot machine might >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.
27:34
You know, if you're in the slot, if you're in the slot, you know. [laughter] >> Yeah.
27:38
If you're you don't want to be on the other side of that slot machine. >> Yeah.
27:41
That could you get you get wiped out. >> Exactly.
27:44
>> Um it's going to have restaurant, bars, and a theater for shows.
27:46
Uh and 25 acres of public parks and playgrounds.
27:53
>> Um so fun for the whole young >> fun for the whole family.
27:55
Uh the kids will be climbing on on the jungle gym and they'll accidentally be uh pulling all the imagine a jungle gym >> practices on Bandit so you get used to the muscle memory >> throwing throwing dice throwing dice comic maybe like comically large cards that you could play. >> That's true.
28:13
Yeah, we can make a whole casino themed playground uh using generated AI and then use that to design.
28:20
>> Joe Pompiano says uh Cohen is essentially taking an undermonetized asset, 50 acres of parking lots around the stadium and trying to transform it into a yearround revenue engine that produces consistent returns independence of how the Mets perform.
28:33
And with the New York State Gaming Commission predicting that the property uh predicting >> Mhm.
28:40
predicting >> wink wink >> wink wink that the property will generate 3.
28:44
9 billion in annual revenue.
28:46
Cohen's 50acre complex would instantly be one of the top 10 largest US casinos by revenue.
28:51
Um anyways, uh >> well, let me tell you about Finn.
28:54
AI, the number one AI agent for customer service.
28:57
Automate the most complex customer service queries on every channel with Finn. ai.
29:04
>> Uh we missed a post uh on the on the SpaceX uh competition. We did.
29:10
>> Buco says friend, dear friend of the show says overeing going to get their faces ripped off if they don't just focus focus focus.
29:18
Equity deals and other bets will not win the great game.
29:23
That feels to be uh the >> consensus was talking a lot about the the the comparison to Google and tracking when did Google monetize.
29:34
Google wound up monetizing I think sooner than chatbt has.
29:36
They put ads in it I think in year two.
29:39
It's now been >> Google was trying to figure out effectively trying to encourage employees to do to eat more and have more massages so that it didn't they looked less like a monopoly, right? >> Maybe.
29:51
[laughter] But uh I mean Google did did get did earn the right to do other bets by just so solidifying their market in the search engine world that then they could go and do Gmail and they could go and do GCP and they could go and do Whimo.
30:05
Um, but it's just like all of that happened after becoming cash flow positive.
30:10
And I think that's why people have a little bit of like nervous energy around going to space even though space data centers and this is what I wanted to go back to in the journal was is there a world where you know it okay it's good to have a space data center bet and so you need a partnership and realistically Sam's not going to partner with SpaceX on it.
30:30
Uh, I don't know why he's not just going by in the launch capacity from Blue Origin, but maybe Stoke Space is the is the better option for him.
30:37
Um, but put aside all the dynamic, all the competitive dynamics, >> I think it's possible that Sam was looking at Stoke Space, which most recently as of October was valued at 2 billion, and he was like, hm, I bought Johnny IV for what was it six.
30:53
>> Can I absorb another another $2 billion company? >> I mean, uh, I Okay. Yeah.
30:56
Like like >> he wants to own the full stack. Yes.
31:01
Which is getting stackier and stackier every single day.
31:03
Uh you're going to need to start buying land to buy the the the silicon to buy the sand.
31:07
Um but do you think there's obviously an immense amount of pressure right now on data center buildouts?
31:15
They're using too much energy.
31:17
They're using too much water.
31:17
If you put them in space, do you think that helps the discourse at all?
31:24
>> I think people hate rockets.
31:24
So [laughter] >> damned if you do, damned if you don't.
31:29
But but but truly it's going to be much harder to say like hold up an electricity bill in Memphis and say, "Hey, my electricity bill went up and it's because of Annie over there in the data center who's just, you know, slopping it up."
31:43
Uh instead, you're going to be able to say, "Hey, the data center that yeah, it's generating sometimes helpful math homework help, sometimes creative writing stuff, sometimes some weird stuffing cancer.
31:56
>> Sometimes it's curing cancer, sometimes it's doing weird stuff, whatever.
31:58
It does a bunch of different stuff, but at least it's not increasing my power bill because it's in space and it's not an eyesore.
32:04
It's not in my backyard and it's not using any water because it's up in space.
32:10
>> You think that would help? >> I think it would. I think it has to.
32:12
But but I agree then the then the discourse will be is blocking out.
32:17
>> But it is notable that that every time every time a the concept of a space data center hits the timeline, it goes viral for people dunking on it.
32:23
And yet so many people want to play, >> but they're dunking on it as uh as like a violation of the laws of physics or like not a good >> too futuristic >> too futuristic like it's not going to work in the near term.
32:33
The economics I haven't seen like like there there there are viral dunks that are going on right now around the prediction markets and those are like those viral dunks are like this is a bad thing.
32:44
I haven't seen people dunk on space data centers saying like I'm not morally okay with putting data centers in space.
32:52
And I think people should be more morally okay with putting data centers in space.
32:58
>> What did Sagger say about prediction markets?
33:01
>> Well, you looked that up.
33:01
Let me tell you about numeral.
33:02
com compliance handled numeral worries about sales tax and VAT compliance so you can focus on growth. What do you say?
33:11
>> Ser uh in response to a video about a prediction market, he said it's pretty simple.
33:16
If you think this is cool, you're my enemy.
33:18
So he is uh >> drawing lines, showing the sides.
33:25
There really are like like active political candidates that will be in Congress in 18 months that where this is their whole thing.
33:32
Their whole thing is their anti-data center.
33:34
And so, you know, get ready get ready to testify, brother.
33:39
>> Anti data center and anti-prediction market. >> Yeah.
33:42
I I don't know that I've seen any uh politicians really run on the anti-prediction market thing yet.
33:45
Not that it's not going to happen.
33:47
I think it will I I think I think there there are a number of enterprising young uh politicians >> that will pick it up.
33:57
>> Politicians of all ages that are looking at this and being like, "Wow, a lot of people don't like this.
34:00
I should make this a part of my platform."
34:03
>> Uh it is >> which is less popular?
34:04
We should have a prediction market. I understand.
34:06
Are prediction markets or data centers less popular?
34:10
>> Yeah, >> I don't know.
34:10
I think data centers might be less popular. >> I don't know.
34:16
>> The hard the hard uh one of the things market you can just not participate but with the data center if it's in your backyard your power goes up your power goes up also it's hard for people to say like I don't use data centers so I don't want them like everybody in some way like is benefiting from them it's like okay like pull out pull out your phone
34:36
let me see the apps on your phone like you don't you don't you don't you don't need this resource >> I like this whereas prediction markets there's some people that just get uh they they don't they're not interested in the data even I've seen a lot of polling polling uh people that run polling firms are like very against prediction. >> I saw that
34:52
>> I saw that >> for for obvious reasons because it's like hey you're kind of open sourcing my whole my whole thing.
34:56
You're making it like you're doing a decentralized version of what I'm doing but providing a lot of the same kind of results.
35:02
Um >> in other news uh this was hitting the timeline uh 2 days ago.
35:07
Fortune said Nvidia CFO admits the hundred billion OpenAI mega deal still isn't signed 2 months after it helped fuel an AI rally.
35:19
Uh I can see what was in the earnings release.
35:23
So this news was the language was in the earnings release that uh that that this deal had not been signed and it's more at an LOI phase.
35:31
They did say during the launch we have a uh they what was the exact wording it was like we have uh we direction it was like we basically like this is like direct we've directionally aligned >> I think it's directionally going to happen or or at least it makes sense as a way for Nvidia to discount chips as they're building out gigawatts and more and more gigawatts for open AAI.
35:54
It doesn't like Dylan Patel laid out how the how the this particular equity investment deal can wind up resulting in a effectively a 30% discount or something like that.
36:09
So, I'm not I'm not surprised if this winds up going through in in one way or another.
36:13
Although, I do think it will need a uh you know, a tweak and and might now might not be the perfect time for Jensen to come out and say, "Yes, I'm actually going to be spending a lot of money. I have to invest.
36:26
I have to keep OpenAI on on Nvidia GPUs as opposed to letting him go over the TPU.
36:32
Like he's sort of like fighting on defense a little bit right now because people are are talking.
36:38
>> Well, apparently it was a good time to go on Joe Rogan.
36:40
>> It was >> uh just another pod guy says another Jensen interview. Now I'm nervous.
36:46
[laughter] So a lot of people were saying that this was uh uh somewhat bearish.
36:51
Uh, I listen to there was a there was a good excerpt here from a capital.
36:56
They say Jensen Hang in 2016, uh, OpenAI was just a bunch of people sitting in a room.
37:01
Joe Rogan says they're not a nonprofit anymore, right?
37:04
Jensen says, "They're not a nonprofit anymore."
37:06
Joe says, "Weird how that works."
37:08
Uh, Jensen goes, "Yeah, yeah."
37:10
But anyhow, [laughter] >> yeah, there there were some wild uh wild exchanges.
37:15
I I just liked the way I I've been calling for Jensen to go on Rogan for years.
37:21
I've wanted more of like the tech leaders to go on Rogan and kind of just like cross-pollinate the two communities.
37:30
And um as I read the comments on the YouTube video, there were a lot of fans of Rogan who really were like thanking him for bringing on this guy who's working on something that's like pretty opaque in the economy. It's very abstract.
37:43
you hear it makes a lot of sense >> and and he and and Jensen's coming and explaining it at one level and then Rogan's asking him to to you know like zoom out tell me more of your story. Why are you successful?
37:55
Uh >> talked about the value of hard work.
37:58
>> Yeah, I I thought it was cool.
37:58
I I I thought they had a good time together and it didn't seem like there was any like undercurrent of adversarialness.
38:07
It it felt it felt good overall. I I enjoyed it.
38:09
It wasn't it wasn't like you shouldn't go into it thinking you're going to get Jensen on Dwaresh and you're like you're just not going to get like a really deep insight into Nvidia strategy but that's not the point of this particular interview.
38:21
It's to understand who Jensen is as a human and what he's kind of like thinking of broadly for the industry.
38:26
Um well before we bring in our next guest our first guest uh let me tell you about Gemini 3 Pro.
38:33
Google's most intelligent model yet.
38:35
state-of-the-art reasoning, next level coding, and deep multimodal understanding.
38:40
Uh we have Jim Kramer in the >> a living legend >> in the at the New York Stock Exchange.
38:47
>> Just celebrated 30 years.
38:49
>> He is the author of how to make money in any market and we will bring him in. We got the book. Come on in. >> Come on in. >> Welcome to the show. Good to see you. It's been too long.
39:00
Thank you so [laughter] much. Where's the gun? There we go. >> He was so ready. He was so ready. >> Hit it again. >> Get a clean hit. A clean hit. >> There we go. >> That's fantastic. >> There's an entry.
39:22
>> You guys look fabulous. I love it.
39:22
It's a great home for you. >> We love it. We love it.
39:26
Every time we're here, we're we're we're enjoying it very much.
39:30
>> Thank you for having us.
39:30
You're basically the Are you the mayor? >> Um, yeah.
39:35
I'm more of an official greeter.
39:37
I'm more of an ambassador.
39:38
>> So, so 20 years on Mad Money, correct?
39:40
How many time How many years in this building?
39:42
How How long have you been working here for about I guess like four.
39:45
We were in Englewood with Cliffs for a long time and we had a studio for us.
39:49
It's very interesting you asked this because now this is our studio.
39:50
Uh, you can't control the sound levels of who's here or whatever.
39:55
But I I kind of still feel it's heart of capitalism. I really do. Okay. It's a spiritual home. >> Yes.
40:02
And I do like wall and I do like broad and I do think that that there's a level of excitement.
40:07
Not the way it was when I got in the business in ' 82 when I first walked down the street and it was an engine.
40:13
>> It's more tourist now taking a look at it.
40:15
But I still find it fascinating the companies that come public, the companies that you know that I'm trying to learn learn about >> and it's uh exciting. It truly is exciting.
40:24
Every day I walk in the building.
40:25
>> Do do you think there's an advantage to being here?
40:26
Do you think there's an advantage to getting guests in person?
40:29
When I think about the highlights uh just from this year, I think about you going to Tim Cook and touring the iPhone factory.
40:36
That was a really cool moment.
40:37
I also think about you beefing with uh I also think about you, you know, going back and forth with Benny off remotely.
40:43
Talk to me about like when do you want to go to a person?
40:45
When do you want them to come to you?
40:47
When do you when are you okay having just a phone call?
40:49
>> This is a fabulous question because I waffle on this.
40:52
I did think as I was telling your terrific people out there that there would be more execs that just would come through and they don't >> and we were near Teterboro at the other place and they do and uh I like to be out in person on the road all the time.
41:08
Uh the issue of course is we do three segments [laughter] there interviews do a lot of the >> issue is there's no time in the day. >> Yeah. You're always on TV. >> It's hard.
41:16
We wrestle with this too.
41:16
uh you know like like you can go and travel to someone, make a big performance out of it.
41:22
Uh we we we we're in Los Angeles, which is not a great place, but it's it works.
41:27
It works in many ways, but it's also odd.
41:29
Like we would assume that we're in San Francisco or at least New York. We're in >> New York.
41:32
>> Well, the funny thing the funny thing if you were getting started today, it's very possible that you would be walking around like one of these live streamers who I know I know like speed came through here at one point.
41:39
You'd be walking around, you'd be on basically 24/7.
41:42
You'd have your phone open.
41:42
You'd be looking at the markets and you would be able to just constantly be traveling around. Yes.
41:47
Well, you guys do stuff where you did you said something the other day.
41:52
There was a guy who said you thought he was at a booth >> at that incredible reinvention, right? Reinvent.
41:58
But he was really not at the booth.
42:00
But the other guy was saying, "Oh, yeah, he's around here somewhere." >> Yeah. Yeah.
42:03
That's [laughter] Simon from Turbo.
42:05
>> You pretend to be in the booth all of the time.
42:07
Uh, but I I do find that the people in general are really nice.
42:12
There's a a code of niceness here that's almost like written in and it's so non New York. >> Uh but I like it.
42:20
>> What about when you when you can't be perfectly nice because uh things just aren't going well for a CEO and and maybe you I always think back to that interview you did with Tim Cook.
42:28
I think it was about a decade ago.
42:30
They'd missed uh I think they'd missed earnings and and the stock was selling off and you needed to ask the hard question what the re what the what the street was saying, but you didn't want to, you know, come at him too aggressively.
42:42
How do you think about that?
42:44
>> Well, it's very funny. >> Yeah.
42:46
>> I often go over these with my wife who's my partner. Okay.
42:48
And I'll say, "Look, I want to be gracious.
42:50
Does this sound gracious?"
42:52
No, [laughter] you're killing. How about I add this?
42:55
She goes, "Oh, yeah, that's great.
42:57
You're killing You're asking about his wife."
42:58
I mean, I I I do find that what happens is the facts dictate the graciousness.
43:01
And if a guy misses a quarter and says that the quarter is good, >> well, he's a free fire. Okay?
43:07
If a woman comes on and and says, "Look, we we had a founder recently who I won't name who said that he was making, you know, 30, he was basically selling a product for $30,000 and he was telling customers, we have so much demand, I can't support you."
43:23
And then a minute later, he was like, "Well, we've expanded capacity so much."
43:27
And I was like, "Well, why don't you call the people you told you didn't have capacity two days ago?"
43:30
[laughter] >> You nailed them. You nailed them.
43:32
I mean, and it's like I don't know.
43:34
I think I'm curious how you think about this.
43:38
It's like I would say most of the people coming on your show, you have some level of respect for what they're doing.
43:44
>> And I think that's important, right?
43:45
That that that if you if you have respect for a person, it means you're going to be fair, right?
43:49
You're not they're not your enemy.
43:51
You're just trying to have a real conversation, understand. Well put.
43:55
>> Um, and then I'm sure plenty of times you've had people coming on that you got a little beef with behind the scenes, but for the most part it's like you want to you want to you want to have people you want to invite people on that you're genuinely excited to have a conversation with, even if you might be a little bearish, might be might be more bullish, right?
44:10
>> Well, let's talk about Beni off.
44:10
I'm interviewing him tonight.
44:12
The previous quarter I did not like. Okay.
44:13
And he came on like gang busters that it was a great quarter.
44:18
And that caused me to do something I don't like to do, which is interrupt mid-sentence because someone's talking and it we all we grew up thinking our mothers told us that would be rude.
44:28
So now I'm into the rude element, right?
44:30
And first he thinks that the rude element is a bit of a >> uh for show, you know, it's like, oh, he's a little Broadway action.
44:36
No, it was like I'm not buying it.
44:39
I'm not buying what you're selling.
44:41
And then like in the middle of it, I thought that Mark realized, geez, I think I think Jim was a bad quarter.
44:47
And then by the end of it, he said, "Wow, Kramer hates me." No, it's not. It's not.
44:52
I don't hate anybody, right?
44:54
But the fact is is that this quarter was the quarterations have you had with Benny Off live on the air? Probably >> maybe.
45:02
Yeah, probably probably I guess 50 60, >> but I I there was a period where during the during the uh I was going to call it the plague uh that I talked to him every day.
45:12
Well, we were trying to develop a contest to develop the best mask >> and it it got way laid, but we were just wanted awareness. >> Sure. Sure. Sure.
45:21
You were working together on a project, right?
45:22
But I look I do I I I've identified him as a friend because he came to my he was one of I guess two CEOs that came to my wedding and there were 53 people there. >> Only two. That's a small club.
45:36
>> And with 53 people if you could just throw a stone you hit a couple of them. >> Yeah. You got you got to ask.
45:44
[laughter] >> I'm [laughter] sorry. >> This is exciting. You guys are exciting. Okay. >> No, you're exciting. You're exciting.
45:54
You are so you are genuinely uh people people in our world uh do ask us time to time they're like you guys are crazy you started a business that you can't stop working on like we are we are we make the business every day >> and I see it and and and we tell people
46:10
like do you do you think you see Kramer you don't think he loves what he does and that's exactly what we want to do we love we love we love that we get to meet up every day and talk about the stuff that we're interested in I can He doing it for decades and decades and decades. >> Absolutely. I mean, it's a little like >> Absolutely.
46:25
I mean, it's a little like my buddy Shar ESPN couldn't stop no matter what.
46:30
I mean, every time he looks at somebody, he's he's thinking about, is that person going to do a trade?
46:34
Is that what's that person thinking?
46:35
But most of the people are just kind of, okay, I'm on TV.
46:40
>> And I, my executive producer, Regina Gil, always says there's two kinds of people.
46:43
There's people who are on TV because they want to be on TV, and then there's people who are on TV because they have something to say.
46:47
And you guys have something to say.
46:49
And what I love about it is is that you have much better BS detector.
46:53
Not to be like I know that sounds prosaic, but the fact is I'll I'll hear that Amazon's chip >> is the best in the world from Amazon and I'll say >> h maybe it's the best in the world.
47:03
I mean I'll actually in my head they'll be like best in world best in world but the hard Amazon my book came.
47:10
So yeah, so so uh obviously anything anything in chip space is tough, but even harder and I think something that uh maybe uh the east coast hasn't been quite as tapped into is determining which hard tech and deep tech companies are real because there's there's there's a lot of companies that are uh the west coast calls them like render companies.
47:32
They make really cool visual renders, CGI, like very cool like sci-fi experiences and then nothing ever comes to fruition.
47:40
And so it's easier to clock those companies from the west coast because of just the whisper networks and and you might know somebody that worked at the company.
47:48
You might know their investors.
47:50
You can uh if a company gets to series D and they haven't had a single tier one ever invest or participate, you know this so well.
47:58
I mean like people it was a series C blah blah blah.
48:02
And I'm like thinking series C? Okay.
48:05
Like that was didn't I take that exam to be able to walk on the floor?
48:06
[laughter] But you have you you speak the language and you but you don't make it so I can't learn the language.
48:12
You you want me you want me to learn the language which I have going for me history and that's my edge.
48:18
So for instance today Micron got out of the what I regard as the most consumer now I've been begging them to get out of the consumer for for actually literally for 20 years because they have a high-end and then they have the the low end and the low end gives them the 10 multiple and the highend gives them the 20 multiple.
48:34
And I've been talking to Sanjay whom I really like.
48:35
And I was like, I was like, Sanjay, you have to like do this.
48:39
And he's like, Jim, I don't need to do that. And so today he does it. The stock's down 12. So I text him. I said, come on. He goes, I'm in quiet.
48:47
I'm like, and I wrote, I'm not in quiet. I think you're fabulous.
48:51
[laughter] And but that's cuz I remember the 95 breakdown where the what happened is is that that old piece of capital goods equipment came out that could make a little more than we needed for the of the memory chips and then it goes like that.
49:02
and his stock have been number one and then 500 number one.
49:06
>> Do you remember some of Do you remember some of this stuff better than the CEOs and the management teams? >> Yeah. Always.
49:13
>> If it's the 90 Absolutely.
49:13
If it's the '90s >> like for Intel when I speak with them. >> Yeah.
49:18
>> I mean, look, I'm not I'm an idiot.
49:21
>> And and there's new leadership. >> Yeah.
49:22
But I would tell you like I forgot my anniversary and my wife's and my and my wife's birthday.
49:26
But I remember the the September collapse in '95.
49:28
But that's cuz it's all wrong.
49:31
I have a memory for some things and they're the wrong things except for when we're in here.
49:36
[laughter] >> What are they doing out there? You are sust. >> Oh, we love to. We love to.
49:43
The show will be wrapped up by then. >> Okay.
49:46
So, when you're out there, one thing later, one thing later with with Ben off.
49:48
Uh, you got to you got to uh ask him about token consumption because he came out with >> 3. 5 trillion. Was it three or one?
49:57
Was it three or one? I don't I don't number but it sounds like a big number but there were some other companies there was AlphaSense somebody at Alpha Sense was sharing they were sharing that they use around half the tokens obviously not quite the same scale much >> you know Jensen wouldn't give you Jensen wouldn't >> give you that rap I mean I remember when
50:16
he did a a me uh when I walked in there was me and he said look this was you know you don't know how many tokens we're using and all it really came down to there was this show at that point mayor of Easttown but there's There's a new one called Task and all that Jensen wanted to talk about was when he was doing me how hard that Philadelphia l was at the end. And Kate Kate Winsler
50:35
And Kate Kate Winsler said the same thing. This man is Da Vinci. He knows acting. He knows plays.
50:42
He knows, you know, he's a well-rounded guy, but all he does now is like >> got good taste in jackets.
50:46
>> But how about all the stuff he has to talk about?
50:49
>> Uh what do you what do you uh how have you been processing all you know everybody competing to say the biggest number? Right. Oh god.
50:55
I have a piece tonight that starts and I mentioned you guys right at the top because I'm like well no because like I say that that this is what you guys do and I don't want to do it [laughter] but because I can't I can't do it like you.
51:07
You don't want to aspire to be someone who's not as good as you.
51:11
Hey, I came in you know I'm like I am I'm not as good as Jordy. What a day.
51:16
You know your wife doesn't want to hear that when you come in.
51:19
[laughter] You know John was like I was so embarrassed. John had to be.
51:21
No, but but but when you're in the these situations, you don't want to be in, well, next week, uh, Open AI's got a new chat GPT that's better than Gemini.
51:29
If you just said, "Holy S, Gemini is the best."
51:33
You don't want to be in that world.
51:35
And yet, you guys know that that world is fluid.
51:38
>> And I don't want to be in a world where suddenly uh I'm going to give an example.
51:42
Broadcom is a general c contractor for a lot of these chips.
51:47
But, you know, what's the general contractor? Does that work?
51:48
Does that mean that they really had a lot of say? I don't know.
51:51
You guys would literally know what it means to to be what Broadcom is in the chain.
51:56
I, on the other hand, is saying, "Hey, Broadcom should go up big because of this."
52:01
>> Well, you know, one is like, "Hey, you know what?
52:03
I think that one's no line and one is a line.
52:05
Hey, you know, guess what?
52:07
I think I I I I think the Patriots have a better chance than than the than Cleveland. Well, yeah. No kidding.
52:14
That's why there's a line. You guys set the line. Okay.
52:15
I'm money line on everything."
52:18
Well, yeah, we know we know we know our lane, too.
52:20
I mean, from being from the being from the West Coast and coming from a private markets background, we focus on market cap.
52:24
You focus on stock price, how the stock is moving dayto-day.
52:29
We, I think, are much more uh we're much more focused on the product side.
52:34
>> What is the most sound on your soundboard? >> Okay.
52:39
>> What do we got that's underrated? on mine right now.
52:40
I think my mother I I happen to think >> there there's a sound right at the >> uh at the bottom right which was from off which was from Office Depot. That was easy. That was easy.
52:54
[laughter] But but that was when the show started.
52:58
Now people just say like what was that? I don't remember that. You got paper there.
53:03
>> The button the button [laughter] but I think it's so cool.
53:06
But like people are saying like what what is that?
53:09
It was that a chain or something?
53:11
And so it's it's it's become a relic, but it's >> Yeah. Yeah.
53:14
It's hard to keep the lore going.
53:16
I mean, we already sound.
53:18
You know what this sound is?
53:23
>> That's That's uh Call of Duty goggles going.
53:27
We We grew up on Call of Duty.
53:29
>> I still don't understand why he does that. >> I grew up on Pong. >> Okay. [laughter] >> Right.
53:33
I mean, I thought Pong was incredible until Donkey Kong.
53:35
Like Donkey Kong was incredible.
53:37
These things were incredible cuz they replace cross word puzzles and uh tic-tac-toe. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Right. Twitch. Who owns Twitch? >> Amazon. >> Amazon. >> Of course.
53:46
We got to get Andy Jasse on Twitch. You know what? I wanted to do earnings.
53:49
I wanted to post earnings on Twitch live. You know what?
53:52
>> Mark Zuckerberg's on Instagram fronting [laughter] videos.
53:54
Get Andy Jassie on Twitch. Jassie Zuckerberg.
53:56
No, he's got no salary capable [laughter] guy, right?
54:02
Everyone else had this kind of soda salary cap. >> It doesn't exist. good. How Roseman is good.
54:09
No, he sucks compared to Zuckerberg cuz he's got the salary cap, >> you know.
54:12
You know, uh some some some something interesting on the on the Amazon front.
54:15
Uh the trainium when they they were talking about No, no.
54:18
When they're talking about their new chip, they specifically uh they specifically mentioned doing a training run for a company called Dart Dean, the founders, which I only know.
54:29
They do they do they do realtime video uh and uh they're working with a lot of Twitch streamers.
54:35
So that that that that training run felt meaningful and I don't think a lot of people picked up on that but something moving.
54:41
>> I mean that's a good example of what I would describe as why I'm you look I never lose sight that I'm a generalist because I wouldn't know that in the same way that I wouldn't necessarily know if we were doing steel steel companies whether something's cold rolled or hot roll.
54:55
cold rollers have got a high multiple and hot rollers, you know, the steel steel and so you always have to be really careful knowing knowing that you don't know certain things.
55:02
Uh like I I wouldn't if there are certain specs put out uh on ASIC Google I I I have to be very careful because when I listen to what you know what Andy Chassio will call me and he'll school me and he'll be right to school me because I don't know enough.
55:18
Who's the next uh Mark Beni off in the sense of a CEO that you could see yourself uh just enjoying interviewing?
55:27
>> Okay, I'm going to give you a crazy I'm going to give you a crazy one because it's it's going to be I have to make it so it's enjoying.
55:33
I haven't gotten there yet.
55:35
It's le I intend to get him.
55:40
>> We got to talk about espresso.
55:40
Espresso talking about coffee.
55:44
>> He's obsessed with coffee.
55:44
Yeah, we spent like 10 minutes. We'll send you the clip.
55:48
[laughter] This is the show talking about and he also likes long long distance biking and riding. >> Oh my god. He's not carp. He doesn't want to kill.
55:58
>> You're the tough thing.
55:58
You got a three minute segment.
56:00
It's hard to spend it's hard to spend three minutes.
56:03
>> You give him more time because I didn't know he I didn't know he had that side.
56:06
I know he cares passionately about Ukraine.
56:08
I know that he cares passionately more importantly about making people who who should get credit in a country where you still have to care about democracy.
56:15
He's dem he's the you know everyone say well I'm democratizing I'm democratizing blue jeans you know I'm democratizing t-shirts.
56:21
No he's democratizing capital and why not his his algo is better.
56:23
Uh I just think he's that's the guy I intend to be able to get him out of his it's not a shell. I don't know what it is. >> What the hell?
56:32
I think I think uh my my sense was like the conversation for us we had 30 minutes, right?
56:37
You're you don't have the luxury of having that much time with with some of these guests.
56:42
But some some people take a while to warm up and that's why that's why that's why sometimes that's why traditional podcast calls, get to know someone, then hop on and even if it's a shorter segment, you can you can do it. >> Oh, good. That's a goal then. It's a goal.
56:55
And the reason I want to do it is because I find him completely fascinating.
56:59
He came on the show when the stock I told him, "Come on the show when you think it's going to break out, will you?" It was going down. It was at 33.
57:05
He came on the show and I said, "Well, I what do you think here?"
57:06
And he goes, "Well, the stock is now done going down and it's going up." No one ever says that. No one.
57:12
They never comment the Oh, well, Jim, that's you. That's out there. We don't know. No.
57:17
He said, "No, the stock's now done going down."
57:21
And it's like at the end of the interview, I said, "That was a gutsy call." And he goes, "What?"
57:23
I said, "That is done going down."
57:24
He goes, "Why is that gutsy?" There's my guy.
57:28
>> Extremely [laughter] gutsy. It's extremely good. I love it. I love it.
57:31
How do you think about uh about market structure, igopolies, monopolies, because uh the real interesting side of Max Levchin and a firm is looking at Sebastian and Clara because now there's two companies in the same space. You can comp them.
57:44
It's a little bit of horse race.
57:46
That feels like good content.
57:48
Feels like good opportunity for investors.
57:49
How do you think about a market like that? >> All right.
57:52
So, I I'm out of the closet this going to say it here.
57:53
I always tell people, look, what I'm looking for are companies that in many ways are the worst thing that could ever happen for our country.
58:00
I'm looking for monopolies because monopolies uh monopolies just they've got the gross margin.
58:05
I just want big gross margins.
58:06
Nothing like did you guys ever read Rockefeller by Chernel? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. The guy had 100%.
58:12
We had 100% of the oil market.
58:14
That's my [laughter] guy.
58:15
And when they broke it up, they created just a huge amount of wealth.
58:19
But no, I I I look for Monopoulos. Yeah.
58:21
or and I'm happy with Allegoblas like right now Lind uh Lyn Lindy which energy company industrial gas and uh and air products there are they're a slap happy uh duopoly right now and they should be raising prices they're like not being good duopolis but that's you know it's kind of
58:37
>> I just always take so much away from the Uber and lift saga that I sort of grew up with I might be overfitting to that >> you know Postmates >> yeah uh >> I like Postmates they weren't they acquired in right >> yeah by Uber right yeah Bastion Bastion's the fashion was the first guy to come on and give me a hat. I said,
58:51
I said, "What am I going to do with that?"
58:54
He goes, "It's called swag. What do I swag?"
58:57
"Well, you put it on your head." >> Shocker.
58:59
[laughter] >> Wait, how are you how have you been processing uh Google then?
59:03
Uh because Google >> Oh my god. Okay. Got out of Google. Get this.
59:07
There was some guy I would call him a clown, but this is a serious show.
59:12
uh from the Justice Department who convinced me that they were going to take put Google in the same bed that James Khan was in in the in the show Misery, you know, going to hobble him.
59:21
[laughter] And he said, "Listen, we're going to hobble him."
59:22
I mean, like, you know, make it so he can't walk. Yeah, that's it.
59:24
And I took him seriously and I spoke to Google's attorney who was of course much smarter than than the Justice Department.
59:30
But I believed the Justice Department.
59:33
I thought that they were going to wreck the company.
59:34
And they kept saying over and over again, "And we're not going to let it be like Microsoft, >> you know, we let Microsoft off.
59:39
>> you know, we let Microsoft off. this is not and I got nervous uh and I p I didn't I didn't panic but when you have the justice department over and over saying listen I don't why are you saying these things you don't know what's going to happen to them and then you get a judge who finds him a monopolist like
59:55
man I got to get out of this thing this is bad news and then the judge like 3 months later says technology's overtaken it not only is it not a monopoly but we think it's great that they paid Apple 20 billion to knock out everybody else I was dead I was dead I was flat and I was road killed it didn't matter whatever I did was ran All you do is look at it and say, "I'm stupid. I'm stupid. I'm I'm stupid. I'm stupid." >> Yeah.
1:00:13
But the real the real thing that hasn't played out yet is like what what happens if we do end up with a duopoly in search, right?
1:00:19
A lot of people I mean Chachi has 800 million weekly active is going to have >> because they may, you know, they don't have the balance sheet.
1:00:25
You guys read Nile Ferguson, Pity of War.
1:00:29
>> Well, that is about whoever has the deepest bond market wins. Uh sent your money.
1:00:34
I mean, he's got the bond market is better for the other guys.
1:00:36
So yeah, this is a question for you because it felt it like I felt very comfortable covering the AI horse race, the the foundation model race from a technologies perspective, from a venture capital perspective, but once the discussion moved to is there enough private credit, is Blue Owl going to underwrite these right at these right levels?
1:00:54
[laughter] Uh, you know, we're having John from Apollo on the show.
1:00:57
I hope you can explain it to us a little bit more, but how do you think about if uh if a story kind of leaves your orbit?
1:01:04
Do you just bringing people on to understand?
1:01:06
>> Well, I mean, balance sheet all the time and and uh it's funny because I have a general show and I'm always afraid to bring the balance sheet up for people say you know gez I want to see what's on the price is right I mean those like dial anywhere but that oh friends
1:01:21
there's friends you know look for old old Seinfelds versus me talking about the balance we have to do >> for some people out there that's that's their super bowl right they [laughter] love they love it right so >> look I get a kick out of the idea that you that Oracle gets involved and that
1:01:39
Larry Ellison who is one of the toughest guys on earth who's never made a mistake and Saffra Katz has never made a mistake are getting involved and then Saffer leaves >> and the FT says she leaves because she doesn't want what's happened to the balance sheet her precious balance sheet
1:01:54
of Oracle which is not that good to begin with so that's a good story for me because that's >> Larry has Larry did uh no he's never been on the show he follows TVPN uh >> he does he does he follow very he followed very No, but but uh what was your relationship like with with Larry? Did Did he come on? Did he >> Larry? No.
1:02:12
No, I never and like I've tried repeatedly, but I won't I won't get on my knees.
1:02:17
I mean, >> he doesn't do a lot of media.
1:02:19
>> I think he might talk about like University of Michigan. Okay.
1:02:22
>> Do you think that Mark Cuban he's been on your show?
1:02:23
Do you think he's the reason why Indiana is such a good football team?
1:02:27
>> Oh, [laughter] we have no idea.
1:02:31
people people have used the ESPN of tech on us.
1:02:34
But it was funny cuz I've maybe >> watched Yeah, maybe I've watched like an hour of sports in the last >> What do you read into the co-CEOs when you see something like that?
1:02:46
>> Yeah, I mean my >> Yeah, here we go. No, I coco basically.
1:02:54
>> Yeah, it's just really hard in capital now.
1:02:57
That's obviously a big focus of ours.
1:02:59
>> Well, Benov was coco with with Keith Block.
1:03:01
That was just suboptimal situation.
1:03:05
>> Uh we got the coco now at Oracle. Let's see what happens.
1:03:07
I think it's hard unless you can have really defined duties like they had at workday.
1:03:14
>> Uh and uh but but otherwise, no, it's not something I really want want to see. Yeah.
1:03:20
>> Uh, how are you feeling about that?
1:03:20
How are you feeling about the the IPO market?
1:03:25
>> I think it's it's too robust.
1:03:25
We're seeing a lot of junk.
1:03:29
>> Uh, we're seeing a lot of biotech, by the way, which is why the biotech instrument companies are doing well, but a lot of these are one-trick ponies, >> and that's really dangerous.
1:03:36
I I look, I don't want to protect anybody from investing in anything because everybody has a right to invest in everybody.
1:03:42
Well, you know, if you were to do a uranium company right now, a company which just says and all it does is say we will find uranium and you use a really funny symbol like you know five used instead of four.
1:03:50
I mean look it you know you you price it at 15 it opens at 24 and then you wait 6 months and you sell every share >> and that's what I'm afraid of. >> Yeah.
1:03:59
>> Not too are the biotech companies taking advantage of the AI narrative or is there a particularly different narrative?
1:04:04
>> No, I think that there's just been a lot of I shouldn't say it.
1:04:07
of I shouldn't say it. there's been >> that's starting to bubble up in in tech in Silicon Valley folks saying hey in the future uh drug discovery is going to be accelerated the timeline's going to be way shorter it's the economics are going to be completely different >> but this the big companies are just they're just sales companies because when you go to the unbelievably cool great person who does healthcare
1:04:27
you know and Nvidia say that person doesn't they're not you know Bristol Myers isn't give me give me help it's not those guys it's not those guys and it really bothers me because If you're going to accelerate what's going on with
1:04:40
cancer, okay, so that you can do, you know, look at every single data point, uh, and know everything within within 5 minutes, you should be able to come up with the holy grail drug that, you know, blood test. Uh, they're getting a blood
1:04:50
Uh, they're getting a blood test for prostate cancer.
1:04:52
I saw a guy down here saying that today.
1:04:53
He's going to become public, I hope.
1:04:55
But, uh, they should be using it and we should be making far more progress than we're doing in healthcare.
1:05:00
It's just, you know, when Jensen came on uh with uh with Synopsis, I mean, it's pretty clear they're doing the digital doing the digital twin.
1:05:09
>> By the way, you know, I thought the digital twin would have been good with with vision with vision pro, but I guess >> relic, I don't know.
1:05:17
>> But I I do think that that's the missing link.
1:05:19
Like, and I think if anybody does it, it's going to be Lily and Dave Bricks because he can get outside himself and think about some ideas.
1:05:26
>> Yeah, I like him a lot. >> You do?
1:05:28
>> Has he been on the show? >> No, not yet.
1:05:30
But he hit a trillion time.
1:05:32
>> We rang the gone for because he hit a trillion dollar valuation. >> Yeah. Wasn't that great? >> That's fantastic. >> Walmart's at 900.
1:05:41
>> That guy Walmart, that guy Doug McMillan, the guy's retiring.
1:05:42
I mean, he created the stock when he came in. Gave huge bonuses.
1:05:47
>> You want to crater it when you leave.
1:05:49
You want to crater it when you leave.
1:05:50
>> Have you been to Walmart lately?
1:05:51
>> There's an interesting there's an interesting bull case for Walmart is that they are leaning in with Chat GPT while Amazon's leaning out.
1:05:56
And so if the agentic commerce thing happens and people are just opening up their phone and saying, "Hey, order."
1:06:02
It will probably be routed through Walmart in the short term. >> Really? >> Yeah.
1:06:06
So Etsy will have to respond into a partnership somewhere.
1:06:10
>> Etsy and Walmart have leaned in.
1:06:10
eBay and Amazon have leaned out. >> Wow. Etsy had a good quarter. Etsy had a bad quarter. >> Uh Amazon, we know. >> Yeah.
1:06:19
And so, and so it's the it's the lagards in the markets that are that are trying to catch up by saying, "Hey, we missed maybe we missed the, you know, the real power line."
1:06:28
>> I thought it was interesting if Costco's deep into uh uh Agent Force.
1:06:29
Do you think Mark's going to rename the company Agent Force?
1:06:33
This is my first question to him.
1:06:35
>> Look at all the different silos.
1:06:35
Go to the page 18 on the deck and there it is. 178.
1:06:39
It's like everything's Asian.
1:06:39
You know, all the different things he now called Asian.
1:06:44
The thing is he's still hiring sales people like crazy is going to rename Meta.
1:06:49
>> Did you see the rumor today, but he's just going to call it >> rename he just re that was that was >> but my my whole thing is I think it's actually I think it's a good name.
1:06:56
It actually is the metaverse.
1:06:58
People spend so many hours in it.
1:07:01
It doesn't matter that it's not in goggles.
1:07:03
They're spending it on their phone.
1:07:04
They're on their computer.
1:07:06
It doesn't it doesn't matter that it's not in a heads up display yet.
1:07:09
It is a universal touch point.
1:07:12
It's like they even adapted the app so it is messaging focused.
1:07:14
It's not even like it's hard to post content on Instagram now.
1:07:18
That's my only metaphorical universe.
1:07:20
But you know maybe with Ver Rubin they can do high-speed video uh short 10-second clip for an ad on Insta and that might work.
1:07:29
I mean right now I would put it in Reddit. I don't know.
1:07:30
Have you seen the rates for Reddit? The rate card? >> No.
1:07:33
>> It's like a fraction and it's very targeted and it's really good.
1:07:35
And I'm looking at Reddit ads.
1:07:38
Reddit ads are the cheapest bargain for any consumer package because you're right targeted.
1:07:44
Like my wife has this mascal business. Boom.
1:07:46
There's like a mascal lovey mascal love, you know.
1:07:49
Everything's like love melanomi.
1:07:51
My daughter's on unfortunately she beat it.
1:07:52
But that's like that's targeted targeted target.
1:07:54
I really like that because the rates I told he's charging too little.
1:08:00
>> Well, isn't he making much money from selling data?
1:08:02
Isn't he making a lot of money from selling data? >> Yes, he is.
1:08:05
And then Cloudflare's doing their best to be able to block.
1:08:07
But you did Cloud Player, you did the implications of of their failure to [laughter] see now there.
1:08:14
Did Matthew not Don't Call Me Matt. Did he call you?
1:08:17
>> Uh he he came Matthew came out once, right? >> Was he good? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, he's great. >> He's real smart. >> Yeah.
1:08:24
>> Maybe we should talk about like who's like a really good guest and who's bad.
1:08:27
And won't [laughter] mention the name of the bad.
1:08:28
We'll just say the good, you know. Oh yeah, that guy.
1:08:29
He's an amazing consumer.
1:08:33
>> The team that you got to have on.
1:08:33
You got to have the semi analysis team on.
1:08:36
Uh the piece was too long.
1:08:36
The one that you told me to read the 10,000 word too long.
1:08:41
I was like, "Oh my god, look at that. Look what's a jet game. I got to go watch it."
1:08:45
No, >> Dylan will always call in.
1:08:46
He'll be at some data center usually outside in the back of a pickup truck.
1:08:50
He'll call in and he's he's absolutely the whole team there is absolutely fantastic. They're very good.
1:08:56
They're really I trust them implicitly for when you have something on Jensen.
1:09:00
>> You look at these two, you know, have you met Eric Lyman yet?
1:09:05
going after you got fantastic. Look at that. Look at that. 26 ramp.
1:09:07
That's That's Isn't that the doing a C round? 26 >> R. C.
1:09:15
>> What should I always say? >> Be here any day.
1:09:17
>> Oh, and then what what should I say if I want to say if I want to impress people about how far along I am?
1:09:21
Should I say I just did myself what series E?
1:09:27
>> Companies are going series G, series F.
1:09:30
People go really deep down because people don't go down bad.
1:09:32
People don't like people don't like going public. It's a hassle.
1:09:36
>> They don't want to deal with the SEC. They don't want to deal.
1:09:39
>> What do you What do you think about if if if Stripe uh stripe stays private forever? >> Johnny Callison.
1:09:44
No, people don't realize that he was the great right.
1:09:48
>> He was a great rightfielder for the Philadelphia home run allar game. The win. >> What do you think?
1:09:54
What do you think if a great American company stays private forever?
1:09:57
Is that is that going to bring?
1:09:59
I mean, we've got, you know, as one, the orange trucks that cut down all the trees.
1:10:03
They've been private forever and they're really, really rich. Yeah.
1:10:04
You know, some companies. I don't know.
1:10:09
Like, I think if you're public, uh, you have to there's some slings and arrows.
1:10:13
>> You got to answer to you. >> No.
1:10:14
[laughter] >> You're more likely to get talked about on that money. Keep the stocks moving.
1:10:22
Well, it's you know when you have like a Wells Fargo and the guy comes on and he's got this like all these flowery coats.
1:10:28
They quotes at the beginning about Lombardi the Bucks.
1:10:30
Lombardi was always saying listen if there's a mistake there's many and then the first thing he says is like you know actually there there were these employees that did it bad and you know don't pay attention to them.
1:10:41
It's like no in your manual.
1:10:43
You say that you show your how do you get people how do you get people off your talking point off their talking points?
1:10:50
I would say like the only the only things the guests that we don't like the guests that we don't uh >> the worst guests are the ones that are trying to get incripted lines and and and just that's the only time that we don't like doing the show.
1:11:01
>> I I had one the other day that was doing it and I made a joke and I stopped and it was just like I said that was a joke.
1:11:09
Now that [laughter] and the person didn't laugh and went right on the talking points.
1:11:13
>> I interviewed Jensen and he says he's doing a talking but he's saying something and and I I I make a joke >> and he doesn't say anything and I said by the way that was a joke.
1:11:22
He goes, "Yo, I was laughing on the inside." Boom.
1:11:25
See that guy can do it all.
1:11:25
He [laughter] can do it all.
1:11:28
He is just What do you do with a guy who's lovable >> and you're trying to be tough?
1:11:33
You're trying to be tough.
1:11:35
You really want to nail him, you know?
1:11:37
was like then he's just charming.
1:11:40
>> Charming is the enemy.
1:11:40
Look, look, talking points and charm are those are the like the soul and caribus that we have to really avoid, right?
1:11:47
>> Funny story with Jensen.
1:11:47
Uh we were in uh we were in DC and we were sitting there talking with Shane Copelan from Poly Market who has a partnership with ICE and Jensen came in and and and Shane goes, "Hey, I'm I'm uh uh uh I'm hey, good to meet you."
1:12:02
Like and he's like Jensen's like, "Oh, what are you doing?"
1:12:04
He's like, "I'm the CEO of Poly Market."
1:12:06
And Jensen doesn't he doesn't know it.
1:12:08
And Shane afterwards he's like, "Ah, I got to work harder. I got to work harder." >> That's him.
1:12:11
[laughter] He gets it at four.
1:12:13
He does the emails and now he probably sets it at 3:45 and checks all the things he doesn't know that are rel too. >> Uh, no. 3:45.
1:12:22
>> But [laughter] who's counting? >> He gets up.
1:12:24
>> He gets up 15 minutes after you.
1:12:26
I'm supposed to get up after 15 minutes before sending an email.
1:12:30
What have you gotten done so far?
1:12:32
>> Wait, do you genetically just need less sleep? >> Yeah. What's going on? How is this possible?
1:12:37
>> Well, you >> cuz there's a hand.
1:12:37
It's like some 5% of the population can just thrive on like 4 hours. >> Okay. Well, here's Okay.
1:12:42
So, because I'm We're not on air.
1:12:44
I'll tell you what the things I take.
1:12:45
Um, so I take Clonopin, I take I [laughter] take melatonin, and I take a gummy, and I can't stay asleep.
1:12:54
See, it's it has to do with staying asleep. How much more do I take?
1:12:56
I can't all like illegal substances to some degree.
1:13:02
Now, they're actually control substances, but I I I that's what I do to be able to stay asleep to quarter of.
1:13:08
>> So, it's more about trying to stay asleep.
1:13:10
It's trying to stay asleep as long as you know what time it is.
1:13:12
I went to bed seven minutes ago.
1:13:13
I got to get I get this picture.
1:13:16
>> You have your Apple Watch set up with like different alerts pictures of my wife.
1:13:20
>> What about What about uh when the markets are moving? That's great.
1:13:22
That's wedding pictures making some sauce. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's great. >> Whoa. >> Oh, it's my wife. >> Yeah. >> Incredible. Incredible.
1:13:30
>> She doesn't watch anything that I do. Tell us drives me crazy.
1:13:33
>> Tell us about the book.
1:13:34
>> What was the process like?
1:13:35
>> The book The book was about uh trying to get it so that people could let's say listen to you >> and say, you know what, these guys really seem to like so and so. I'll go on chat. I'll go on Gemini 3.
1:13:44
I'm going to learn about it and maybe I own a share.
1:13:48
Right now that's stretch and verboten.
1:13:50
People feel if you if you do more than own an index fund, you're you know, you don't know what you're doing.
1:13:56
I come back and say the information is never easier to find.
1:13:57
All these people who believe only in index funds are just dogmatists and what really you should be able to do is do index fund and do side by side or otherwise we just think you know what all that information that you guys put out doesn't mean anything and it can't be like that.
1:14:12
We can't make people feel stupid. It's not right.
1:14:14
If you have an observation that you think that a company that was on your show really knows what it's talking about.
1:14:23
Why can't you do the research look at the website and buy a share? Why is that heresy?
1:14:29
portfolio allocation, too.
1:14:29
Take 10 take 10% of your assets and invest in things that you're interested in.
1:14:36
>> Do you know how much resistance I've gotten on this?
1:14:37
Well, the alleged tour because I don't really want a tour, but I did some.
1:14:40
I I you know, people say, "Jim, you you say that they people should own individual stocks, but over and over again, it's been proven that that's stupid."
1:14:48
And I said, like I I was I worked with private wealth.
1:14:51
I've seen people make tens of millions of dollars.
1:14:56
So what we end up doing, we have a millionaire's lunch with Jensen every firefighters, police, people who listened, you know, some of them were because because I named my dog Nvidia. [laughter] >> Yeah.
1:15:09
Well, that's that worked out actually was pretty a lot of people got it was dollar at 90 when it was >> and I told I said they said I told Jensen he says no one knows me. What's going on?
1:15:19
So you know I'm like doing this.
1:15:20
It's like I got you back. Now he's at the top. >> Yeah. I got you back. I got you back.
1:15:25
And I said, "Listen, I just came back from California.
1:15:26
I got to tell you, I had this dog named Everest. Uh-uh. No more. The dog is Nvidia."
1:15:30
And that's said, you know, there was a police officer who came to the show.
1:15:35
He goes, "Look, >> I bought I'm a a millionaire. I bought Nvidia." I said, "When?"
1:15:40
He goes, "When when you you named your dog?"
1:15:42
I said, "Do you know really kind of what it does?"
1:15:46
He goes, "Well, you named your dog.
1:15:48
You don't name your dog after something if you think it's a fly by night thing." Boom. Right.
1:15:52
That's an [laughter] amazing.
1:15:55
>> Can I stay on forever?
1:15:55
I wish we would chewing up.
1:15:59
>> I think it's your people. Look at these people.
1:16:01
These people is an ugly sweater day, too.
1:16:08
>> I guess investor, you know. Why can't you get 2. 2 yards?
1:16:14
You're a That's what he's a Let's make this a regular thing.
1:16:19
This was I would love, you know, honestly, you guys are what I hope would occur. Okay?
1:16:26
I kind of always hoped that this would occur, but I didn't know who would do it.
1:16:30
This would occur, meaning a sophisticated show, but that didn't take yourselves too seriously or I could learn.
1:16:36
And it hadn't occurred >> until you. Thank you.
1:16:40
>> And I was almost like I always thought, what did people they have to just make trillions?
1:16:44
They can't stop and have some fun and tell us things. But you came. You happened.
1:16:48
and the fact that you happened.
1:16:50
I Okay, I'm going to be the only time I want to be a little immodest.
1:16:53
I'd like to think that maybe in some way you happened cuz like somebody sometime you saw me.
1:16:57
I think that you are >> you're not 2. 0.
1:17:01
You're you're so generous.
1:17:03
But I just feel like that you >> that it occurred and that people you're another reason why the >> you're on our Mount Rushmore media. >> There's four of them.
1:17:13
>> But you're the biggest. [laughter] >> Why? Thank you.
1:17:17
>> Good luck to you guys.
1:17:17
Keep doing what you're doing.
1:17:19
You're just You're just electric. >> There we go. >> Right. [laughter] Where am I? Where is that? >> All right. Go get him.
1:17:27
Thank you so much coming in. Alert. Alert.
1:17:30
[laughter] >> Let me tell you about linear.
1:17:32
Read the system for software development.
1:17:34
Linear streamlines work across the entire development cycle from road map to release.
1:17:41
Let me also tell you about profound.
1:17:42
Get your brand mentioned in chat. GPT.
1:17:44
reach millions of consumers who use AI to discover new products and brands.
1:17:49
Our next guest is Eric Lyman from Ramp from the Ramp Business Corporation.
1:17:56
>> Uh what an electric moment. What a fun time. >> A goat. >> Yeah, he's a goat. He's a goat.
1:18:00
He's a fantastic uh performer.
1:18:02
Uh he's been in front of a camera before. >> He's an entertainer.
1:18:08
>> If there's ever been he's doing 10,000 hours gets you good results, it's obvious.
1:18:13
He's doing he's this is he's doing TV at least four times today.
1:18:15
He's doing his show three times.
1:18:17
He popped on to our stream.
1:18:21
>> I mean he's I I mean 20 years of of Mad Money he must be he must be well past 10,000 hours on on camera.
1:18:28
>> And I think isn't it 30 years in television?
1:18:31
>> It Well, so Squawkbox has been on for 30 years. Yeah.
1:18:34
>> Uh and and Mad Money for 20 which is remarkable.
1:18:37
Um well let me tell you about fall the generative media platform for developers develop and fine-tune models with serverless GPUs and ondemand clusters. >> That's right.
1:18:51
>> Darren Rovel is sharing >> apparently somebody is claiming that a Google insider has been trading on uh search markets.
1:19:01
Uh they're saying uh somebody's been betting millions of dollars or trading millions of dollars >> uh on who will be the most searched people of the year uh including uh yeah just like whether or not Pope Leo will rank uh in Google's top five most searched people.
1:19:21
Uh Darren Roll says this is what happens what will continue to happen when unregulated markets are bet on as if they are regulated. Here's the thing.
1:19:29
They are regulated by the CFTC. Yep.
1:19:31
And >> trading is illegal.
1:19:35
Like I I was looking this up uh because we were talking to Tar Kelshi about this.
1:19:38
Um and uh and I just wanted to know more.
1:19:41
And apparently like let's say that you just are trading corn futures and you just happen to know that there's going to be like a major blight in the corn markets and so you go and trade.
1:19:53
If you have insider information that someone missed their harvest or something like you can actually get in trouble for trading for doing insider trading even in commodities. >> Yeah.
1:20:02
>> And you would think like what what what private information >> the issue is prediction markets become more accurate when insiders are trading on it.
1:20:08
And so it's like this weird.
1:20:09
>> So Brian Armstrong was kind of laying out the the bull the bull case for insiders.
1:20:14
>> He gave an interesting example of an admiral.
1:20:15
like his I I mean, yes, it was it was sort of a bad example, but I like I liked his uh I like that he's being philosophical about it.
1:20:22
I mean, I feel like all of the crypto OGs are very philosophical in their analysis.
1:20:26
And I think that that can be sort of clipped out of context to be like >> it's something we need to figure out.
1:20:32
It's something we need to figure out. It's happening. >> It is.
1:20:34
And he's also been in that like I think what people forget about Brian is that like he was in the legal gray area for like a decade, right?
1:20:39
Where where where he had he was on stage a lot.
1:20:41
where he had he was on stage a lot. He was born in it where he was on stage [clears throat] a lot and when he was on stage people would ask him like okay uh do you think uh do you think Bitcoin should be a commodity or a stock or something like that and you have to be
1:20:53
like well theoretically here's this without further ado we have Eric Lyman from the RAM businessor to see you [music] >> I can't believe you made a a sweater just for a ramp investor >> incredible tree letting out the holidays are here should we open this up Barkley X ramp collab sweater. >> I'm It's It's been a strong season and I
1:21:17
>> I'm It's It's been a strong season and I have a feeling it's going to get a lot stronger.
1:21:22
>> And you got the yellow socks on, too. >> Fantastic. >> Fantastic to see you.
1:21:26
>> How many of these exist in the world? >> Not Not enough.
1:21:27
You know, I think probably Wow, look at this too. Yellow matches on fire.
1:21:35
I don't I don't know if we can uh I don't know if we can actually light this candle.
1:21:38
We won't we won't do it, but we won't put this out here because I mean they were even saying that we we might not be able to have a very loud speaker for our soundboard because of rules on the stock exchange.
1:21:48
Like there are a whole bunch of rules about what you can and cannot do because like there's serious business happening.
1:21:55
>> Well, you guys have like a deep partnership.
1:21:58
Can we ask Lynn if we can be the first show to enjoy a live like a scented candle? >> A scented candle.
1:22:02
Yes, but I would I would definitely ask for permission with this one.
1:22:07
I would not be caught dead begging for forgiveness. No chance. No chance.
1:22:11
>> It's a How are you doing? >> By the book here. I'm doing great. >> I'm I'm doing great. And congratulations.
1:22:16
>> We're in We're in New York City.
1:22:16
Remind me how ramp wound up in New York City.
1:22:20
You're not from New York City.
1:22:22
>> It's uh Well, this is the capital of capitals.
1:22:24
>> So, you had to be here.
1:22:25
>> You know, this is uh we're Exactly.
1:22:25
I love that that eagle [laughter] >> but but uh you know, steel man this for me.
1:22:31
of your investors might say that this is mimemetic desire to wind up in the capital of capital.
1:22:34
Why not be the contrarian and and build a fintech company somewhere else?
1:22:39
>> Look for I remember we we our last company we had gone out west.
1:22:42
It was YC demo day yesterday.
1:22:47
>> We went we went through there and I remember towards the end of Y Cominator we told the partners that we were going to be moving back to New York and several of them looked at us like we had a hole in our head >> but we did it and >> were you roommates during YC?
1:22:57
Uh yeah, of course, you know, and those were tough times.
1:23:02
I remember we we lived on Sand Hill Circle. >> Sand Hill Circle.
1:23:06
>> All at the time, we don't cook all that well.
1:23:08
Um we knew about Seamless and the sad part was there was only two restaurants on Seamless and so like >> what are we going to do today?
1:23:16
>> What are we going to do? >> It was terrible.
1:23:18
We lost a lot of weight that that summer.
1:23:20
It was times were tough and then at the very end we discovered Door Dash and we realized there were in fact ways.
1:23:24
But I I remember I I had kind of liked the West Coast and Kareem said, "You can stay out here, but I'm going."
1:23:29
I said, "Okay, we're going."
1:23:31
Anyway, I've resolved it. You understand?
1:23:34
The the New York is uh I feel like celebrates the entrepreneur, the person that's just trying to make make something in the world.
1:23:43
And it's slightly I San Francisco celebrates uh uh the earnest uh hacker.
1:23:50
We talked about this with Paul Paul Graham yesterday.
1:23:54
And that's kind of the the YC ethos and it's like probably one of the most important archetypes in the world, right?
1:24:00
That so much of the things and the products in our lives uh in our world is uh due to the earnest hacker.
1:24:07
But there's another archetype that I feel like finds their way to New York, which is the earnest the earnest builder.
1:24:12
>> I So I think that glosses over a lot of what happened in the valley over the past 10 years.
1:24:18
Um what I observed from a lot of my um peers who had gone through um that accelerator funded companies during that era was the average person they hired stayed there for about 12 months.
1:24:31
Um it was an incredible mercenary culture.
1:24:33
The the San Francisco and West Coast of 2015 through 2020 something we can debate kind of the year was not this like you know earnest hacker two people in a garage.
1:24:47
garage. It had become very very corporatized and everyone who was out there I I felt the small startups unless you were the hottest company at all points in time your engineers were getting picked off by Google by Facebook was going to the next hot company when
1:25:02
>> people were I feel like in some ways taking a portfolio approach they're like well if startups are risky why don't I work at four startups over four years that that if you just graduate like you know on regularly on time from a good college by the time you're 32 and maybe trying to buy a house. You can have done
1:25:18
You can have done four three fouryear vests.
1:25:19
That's a crazy thing to be like, yeah, I got some options over here vested a series A company I joined, then I jumped over to the growth stage company and I have this portfolio.
1:25:29
It's like that's not the goal here.
1:25:31
The goal is to go on a generational run.
1:25:34
>> So, build something that matters.
1:25:34
And like when we came back to New York, look, I I think it was uh maybe like Bob Ross would say, a happy accident.
1:25:39
Like when when you when you started hiring these people, we could punch way above our weight.
1:25:44
our weight. um if you wanted to work at a very fast growing venturebacked startup seed series A there was like three um and so we were able to find extraordinary people there was there was I think this wasn't well understood but all of the large engineering companies were opening incredibly large offices in
1:26:04
New York had done it AWS Stripe was opening their office >> MongoDB >> MongoDB then you had these [clears throat] these companies that were authentically built here in New York MongoDB B, data dog, all the direct to consumer companies, and you had classically people who were, you know, in touch with culture, designers, um, marketers, people in in finance. It was It was all kind of here.
1:26:25
And so what happened was, as I think the West Coast was becoming a very hard place to build a genuine war, >> lots of talent in New York, you had the talent, you had people who were moving to be out here, and then all that was missing was >> people also wanted to live in New York. people.
1:26:44
[laughter] It's like the it's the greatest city in the world.
1:26:47
>> It's still a meme among AI researchers like should I move to New York?
1:26:49
Should I like get out of the hustle and bustle all of San Francisco?
1:26:53
>> Not AI researchers but engineers feels like it feels like going to Hawaii.
1:26:58
>> I'm ready for something different.
1:26:58
Maybe I can go over there. That's awesome.
1:27:00
I can go over there. That's awesome. I think that this was part of the secret of ramp like we set out to go into be that definitive company where if you it was a goal that in in a few years time people would say like you know you ask a friend what is like the best fintech
1:27:15
company uh in New York or a little people would think it's you got to go to ramp that's where they like take engineering seriously they move fast in their products and we turn that into reality I think that there's lots of other great companies in New York um here uh and coming up and accelerating
1:27:29
but uh it's great it's great we're uh something I've been realizing recently of like TBPN we've probably added like one person a month in the year or so that we've been in business and I was thinking like what a incredible luxury that is because when you're hiring at a relatively slow pace uh you have so much time to like really
1:27:49
get to know people there's not like this pressure how like I'd be curious cuz I I don't think you've ever shared it on the show your philosophy on hiring when you're trying to deliver ramp speed, but also find and find and hire people that are going to be with the company for 5, 6, 7 years and beyond. >> Yeah. I I think a lot of people who walk >> Yeah.
1:28:09
I I think a lot of people who walk around the ramp office, you guys know this, the company is incredibly young.
1:28:13
Um, you know, I think the average age is is is in the 20s and a lot of it relates to to this idea of finding people who are on a steep slope um uh versus inter like intercept.
1:28:24
Obviously, of course, we have people who have had incredible experience and pedigree, but the question is if you play out one or two years time, um there's some people with a lot of experience who've said, "I've seen this movie before.
1:28:35
I've learned all that I'm going to learn."
1:28:37
Uh and you know, get a little bit better over the course of the next year.
1:28:41
And then you have these people who graduated top of their class.
1:28:45
Uh maybe they're 19, maybe they're 20, maybe they're in their mid20s, but they want to work, they want to learn, and they're on the steep trajectory.
1:28:51
And we find these people who have incredible drive, have incredibly high IQs.
1:28:56
We give them more responsibility than you'd expect. And you're patient.
1:29:01
You wait a year and suddenly you are you are fil you're filled with people at your company who are far more talented uh than maybe you could afford to hire otherwise.
1:29:11
could afford to hire otherwise. uh and >> if they already had the ramp logo on their resume and you were you know another another company >> and you're managing teams and they're little and they've like grown incredible equity in the company which has grown even more since they've been here um and it's it's just this incredible virtuous
1:29:29
cycle and I think that a lot of people um especially early stage companies get pushed by like their investor to say oh you should find someone who's seen this movie before I want to find someone who's been this VP whatever and like nothing wrong with that I think that can be great but it really underestimates the importance of finding people have that raw talent and looking at again slope over intercept. >> Yeah, John, I interrupted you.
1:29:48
>> Yeah, John, I interrupted you.
1:29:50
>> Oh yeah, I I just wanted to hear about uh sort of switching gears, but uh positioning around the product in the age of AI.
1:29:56
Uh there's a campaign going on right now. Uh what what is it? Teaching money to think. >> Yeah. >> Right.
1:30:03
Uh and I just thinking money and and it it makes sense.
1:30:05
It's intelligent finance, but it it feels like it's the result of grappling with this question of like how do you bring AI to bear in the product in a way that's not uh like commoditized like every other company, but still showing some of the value.
1:30:24
AI is this weird thing where it's becoming like overhyped and then maybe potentially like even controversial in some like is it using all the water?
1:30:34
all the water? where people are grappling with that [laughter] and and so uh I I wanted to know how how you landed on that campaign like how you're actually like like how you're thinking about walking a perspective customer through the AI piece of the value prop
1:30:52
from from a from a catchphrase or or a tagline down to like okay you're actually sitting down with a CFO like like what promises are you making them because you're probably not saying like yeah you're never going to touch anything ever again, right? And you have
1:31:04
And you have to like be somewhat realistic about that.
1:31:07
So, how how are you working?
1:31:08
>> Get ready to enjoy PTO, buddy.
1:31:11
[laughter] >> Look, I uh I I I love this question and I think you need to start at the root of where this comes from. >> Sure.
1:31:18
>> At the when the company first launched, we had this idea of time is money. You should save both. >> I love it. I say it every day.
1:31:23
Every day as soon as, you know, [laughter] >> it's becoming my mantra. I say it every day. >> Every day.
1:31:29
Wake up in the morning, look in the mirror money.
1:31:31
Save both bill paying a whole lot more all over the place. Here >> it is.
1:31:35
Uh, and by the way, you know, um, for any CFOs out there or financial professionals who haven't yet adopted RAMP, you know, give your CFO or the controller the, you know, uh, the wonderful gift of RAM, help them save 5%.
1:31:47
[laughter] >> But you still, you still push so hard on sales all the time.
1:31:52
All the time you're like, uh, like, oh, this company is interested in RAM.
1:31:56
They're like, "It introduce them to me and you'll jump on the phone like in the next 24 hours."
1:32:01
>> Well, there's nothing better than than actually feeling it your your yourself going through the sale, helping someone get through and and it helps you understand the experience and stay sharp.
1:32:09
But the the the question is really good.
1:32:11
So, if you if you think about the actual brand and the value props that we offer is fairly timeless in a sea of, you know, uh ecosystem of credit card companies trying to get you to spend more, we want you to spend less.
1:32:24
And we think this is timeless.
1:32:24
or the opposite would be like a new video model >> and it also shows for the state of the art for 4 weeks and it's like it's just a very it's it's like selling a very different product.
1:32:35
>> It's selling things versus value and and and to be very specific about it like if you and Jeff Bezos has talked about this in in in another context.
1:32:42
It's it's it's some people ask what's going to change over the next 10 years.
1:32:47
It's more interesting to ask what will not, right?
1:32:50
And in 10 years from now uh or a hundred years from now, it is very clear that people will always want to get more for less, for fewer dollars, for fewer hours.
1:33:02
There's no way that's ever going to change.
1:33:04
And if you think about kind of the central promise of ramp is going to help you spend less.
1:33:08
Um you know, you think about you could sell thinking or you could sell thinking thinking money.
1:33:14
We can help you spend that might change.
1:33:16
But if you have intelligence introduced to some end goal which is the intelligence is going to help you uh prevent spend that is out of policy that you don't want to occur once it's spent to actually tag and account for it and then afterwards help you make sure that the next month you know more dollars go
1:33:33
to productive uses as being really good and really timeless and so thinking money might be a way of saying it uh in the modern era we're going to apply thinking to drive an outcome your company but leaner but it's the same >> money starts to go I don't know if I want to spend myself over there. [laughter] Yeah, maybe not. I'm not not
1:33:46
[laughter] Yeah, maybe not.
1:33:46
I'm not not I might just chill in this treasury account.
1:33:49
It's this timeless idea there, guys.
1:33:51
>> We we we need you to ring the gong because I there is a milestone uh which is that when we started the show, I was laughing about the, you know, we want to go to war on the paper receipt on big paper.
1:34:02
And I actually found a company that uh that and I was like I was like, is are paper receipt companies a thing? Are they still big?
1:34:08
Turns out there was one that was worth like $22 billion.
1:34:10
I believe when we started working with you, you were below that.
1:34:14
Now you've now you've eclipsed it and I think it's a sign of good things to come.
1:34:18
Good omens and the death of the paper receipt.
1:34:22
>> Death of the paper receipt.
1:34:26
>> Well, thank you so much for coming on the show, stopping by. Great to see you. Thank you. Have a great day.
1:34:33
>> And [snorts] uh we will what a what a moment too because I I think if if you guys hadn't bet on us last uh Q4 of last year, I don't think we'd be sitting here today with with the TVN logo all over the NY.
1:34:45
So thank you to the whole team.
1:34:48
>> We're we feel like the lucky ones.
1:34:48
Thank you and congratulations again. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> Love you dude.
1:34:52
>> We will talk to you soon.
1:34:52
Uh we will also talk to you about Turbo Puffer Serverless vector and full text search built from first principles on object storage.
1:35:00
fast, 10x cheaper, and extremely scalable.
1:35:03
I'll also tell you about Privy.
1:35:04
Privy makes it easy to build on crypto rail, securely spin up white label wallets, sign transactions, and integrate onchain infrastructure all through one simple API. Cheers. We got our red. We're going a fun show. >> Oh.
1:35:21
>> Next up, we have John Zto, co-president of Apollo.
1:35:24
of Apollo. Apollo >> a fledgling asset manager with 900 900 $900 >> $900 900 900 billion $9,000 >> 900 million >> 900 million >> 900 million >> or is it 900 billion >> it is 900 billion is 900 [laughter] billion >> 900 billion he's going to answer some
1:35:43
hard questions what is private equity what is private credit what is asset management what what are alternative assets the I like I like the traditional assets the alternative ones that scare >> [laughter] >> I like >> Let's bring him in. Let's bring him in. Let's bring him in. Yeah, we're ready.
1:35:59
He's put on He's put on a microphone.
1:36:01
>> He's getting miked up.
1:36:02
>> But, uh, in the meantime, we'll tell you about Figma.
1:36:03
Think bigger, build faster.
1:36:06
Figma helps design and development teams build great products together.
1:36:08
And I'll also tell you about graphite.
1:36:10
dev code review for the age of AI.
1:36:12
Graphite helps teams on GitHub ship higher quality software faster.
1:36:20
John Zto is getting miked up. He's coming in.
1:36:22
Um, I should also mention that today I am wearing a watch that I purchased on getbzzle. com.
1:36:26
You can shop over 26,000 luxury watches, fully authenticated inhouse by Bezel's team of experts.
1:36:35
>> On a special day, you need a special watch.
1:36:37
[music] >> There's no better place to get it than Bezel. We have John Zita. John, good to meet you.
1:36:42
>> Are you Are you giving Eric a little pep talk there? >> What are you saying?
1:36:46
>> You know, a couple couple things there.
1:36:47
>> You guys are friends, right? >> Yeah. Yeah.
1:36:48
Last time I saw him, he was uh he was like taking all his money. It's a small poker game.
1:36:52
He was taking everyone's money. So, I can see that.
1:36:55
He's such a nice guy, so he's got to be >> Don't fall for the ramp pitch.
1:36:57
You >> counting everyone's money now.
1:37:00
>> He's like, I'm saving your I'm s I'm going to save you time and and your money.
1:37:03
I'm going to actually take your money.
1:37:07
>> And I'll be saving it for later for myself.
1:37:09
>> Their team is amazing because what they're building is pretty incredible.
1:37:12
>> Tell me about tell me about your team.
1:37:14
Tell me about what you've learned from him.
1:37:15
What you've told him about managing building a team.
1:37:17
What does it take to get a job and work for you? >> Yeah.
1:37:20
I mean, look, those those uh they don't need any of my advice.
1:37:22
They'll come and talk to me about about building a culture. Yeah.
1:37:25
Uh but you know what they're doing there and they have a bunch of people around them that are just building incredible business.
1:37:30
For us, it's about >> it's pretty simple.
1:37:33
Find people with purpose.
1:37:34
Find people high character.
1:37:36
Find people that are, you know, generally good people first and then all the investment.
1:37:41
>> How do you like to evaluate people for purpose?
1:37:42
I mean, for us, >> how long do you want to spend with someone before you?
1:37:46
Actually, >> I mean, some of our best hires are probably the people that I've known for a really long time.
1:37:51
I mean, a lot of our hires that we've made in the last, >> I don't know, >> 5, seven years. I knew them for 20. Yeah.
1:37:58
>> You know, we've been in I've been in credit for 23 years. >> Yeah.
1:38:01
We So, quickly, can we zoom out and can you uh paint a picture for me of like the actual Apollo structure, the empire?
1:38:07
Like, what's going on there?
1:38:09
>> Maybe share some of the same numbers you shared with our mutual friend Patrick.
1:38:12
the best like the best because the velocity that you guys are moving at is is pretty >> Patrick's a great guy. Center is a good guy.
1:38:18
I know you guys are close to center too. >> Center's the best.
1:38:20
>> Um >> yeah, so Apollo uh largest one of the largest alternative credit managers in the world.
1:38:26
Largest alternative asset managers in the world.
1:38:30
>> What's unique about us is half of our 9 o over 900 billion our own our own capital through retirement service. >> Through a theme. Yes.
1:38:38
>> So we're writing we're a market leader in writing guaranteed income.
1:38:40
So we'll write a guaranteed, you know, you want us 5% guaranteed income.
1:38:46
>> Somebody wants to retire someday. >> Yeah.
1:38:47
You want guaranteed income for the next 10 years at 5%.
1:38:48
We'll guarantee you that money and then we'll invest it and we we keep some marginal spread between guaranteeing you the income and that's half our money.
1:38:57
And then half our money is is managing third party money on behalf of our historically private equity business which is uh over hund00 billion and then our credit business which is worth of $800 billion. So oh here we go.
1:39:09
But but I the guys out there told me I'm the first alternative asset manager leader on your on your show.
1:39:16
I don't know if that's true, but you let's let's plenty of people that have uh that have I'm sure raised raised uh uh from Apollo, but uh yeah, this is the first uh yeah m maybe like let's talk about why private credit which people talk about as a monolith.
1:39:35
Obviously there's subsections of it but why it's having such a moment right now uh in the context of these sort of like >> large scale uh infrastructure projects that are happening uh in AI as well as defense. >> Yeah.
1:39:49
I mean look so because half our balance sheet is super long duration for retirement it and all these new projects need really longdated capital. >> Yeah.
1:39:58
>> There's only two places you can get capital.
1:40:00
You can get money from a bank or you can get money from investors.
1:40:00
And the bank capital they're amazing at a lot of things.
1:40:05
The capital tends to be more shortdated because it's led by deposits.
1:40:09
>> Y >> so insurance, >> we got to experience that with uh SV little duration mismatch. >> Yeah.
1:40:14
So, so if you want a 15-year project, you want someone who's going to understand your project, >> much more of a bespoke solution, work with the company to have more flexibility in that capital structure or in that capital solution.
1:40:26
>> It's much more logical to be with private capital than it is in public markets.
1:40:30
And a lot of the people in your guys universe, it's um historically they had to go public to get access to money.
1:40:37
And now everybody's staying private way longer.
1:40:42
>> Like we've so legacy world, legacy capital was okay, we need new money.
1:40:47
We're going to go public and that's how we would do it.
1:40:49
>> Now everybody in the growth world has gotten a lot more sophisticated. >> Yeah.
1:40:54
>> They're staying private longer.
1:40:54
They're raising capital through the private equity, not traditional, but in the private markets world.
1:41:01
>> And now they're realizing, wait a second, we can do this in our entire capital structure.
1:41:06
Wait, what's this credit thing?
1:41:07
Oh, we can access private credit access.
1:41:08
Okay, we can do a long duration project level finance and it's more optimal for their equity markets.
1:41:14
And so they're just like, >> okay, so now that all now everybody's accessing this private markets, and because it's growing so quickly, it's in the news a lot because it's, oh, wait, it's growing fast. So it must be risky. >> Yeah.
1:41:26
So talk about I mean that that prompted the piece from Mark and it was Bloomberg yesterday. The >> Yeah.
1:41:31
He put out an oped yesterday. >> Yeah. Maybe maybe Yeah. Talk as much as you can.
1:41:36
>> I mean look there's lots of uh everyone has a weird definition of private credit and so they have a hard time everyone has a hard time. >> Okay.
1:41:43
Private credit's risky and a lot of people think private credit's like the five or$10 million loan to like a tire manufacturer in Queens or something.
1:41:51
That's what they think private credit is.
1:41:52
We're doing 11 billion loans for Intel. >> Yeah. Yeah.
1:41:56
>> And that's private credit, right?
1:41:56
So, >> we define it as everything from a mortgage to a commercial real estate loan against a building >> to an aviation loan against a new aircraft, like super safe, secured, top of the capital structure, traditionally investment grade. Yep.
1:42:14
>> So, >> but how do you set up your firm to deal with a $10 billion deal with Intel all the way down to some smaller deal?
1:42:19
We're f we're the only we're the only firm that's full open architecture. Okay.
1:42:23
So, we're one investment business.
1:42:25
So, >> you know, David Sber who runs private equity, you know, our the guys who lead our hybrid team, the you know, our credit team, all the people are all in the same investment meeting >> talking about, okay, what's the best solution for the company?
1:42:37
It's not really about let's solve for this small thing for a fund. >> Yeah.
1:42:43
>> Once you start doing that, it's very hard to work with companies. >> Yeah.
1:42:46
you know, like historically the credit business was, hey, uh, we're going to go to a bank, we're going to issue a bond, >> and then we would buy that bond.
1:42:53
That was kind of the public credit business.
1:42:58
>> And most of those people were trying to were typically conservative >> and they were trying to get >> just their income >> because most of us grew up in the opportunistic business and we've evolved into an investment grade business.
1:43:12
We think more like builders and partners and we're just providing capital across the whole capital structure.
1:43:16
And when you can show up and say, "Hey, do you need >> a loan against the building?
1:43:20
You need a by the way, you want a retirement program for your employees?
1:43:23
And you want a a long duration preferred?"
1:43:28
>> There's there's not many people that can show up with huge amounts of checks and just make it.
1:43:31
And also, by the way, >> we're lenders to 5,000 companies.
1:43:33
So now all of a sudden you're in our ecosystem and if you're growing the thing we're you know we can we can help and let and be a part a real partner not just a capital provider >> and that's like the new modern companies.
1:43:46
Aren't there only there's 4,000 public companies?
1:43:48
How many so are you a lender to almost all of the public companies that are we have mortgages real estate loans? >> Sure. Sure. Sure. >> Right.
1:43:57
How do you think about the real estate market?
1:43:58
Mortgages uh even buying houses like how do you think about that portfolio there? >> Yeah.
1:44:04
We don't we don't buy we're not in the uh single family rent business or that business. >> You like your brand.
1:44:11
>> It [laughter] does seem like it does seem like a like an like a hot iron, but I have a friend.
1:44:16
>> This isn't a gotcha cuz I have I have a friend who lives next to a house that was bought by private equity.
1:44:18
He's like, "Yeah, they actually made it really nice and it's great.
1:44:21
My neighborhood's getting better because of this."
1:44:22
It's like kind of a hot take, but >> yeah.
1:44:24
I mean, look, that part that part has been in obviously affordability is a big flavor.
1:44:28
So, um but we're we're more on the lending side.
1:44:30
So, we just provide mortgages. >> Sure. Sure. Sure.
1:44:33
And so we have a big mortgage business and we'll it's it's relatively low >> cost and and and I mean as you get lower into smaller deals, do you need to bring in more automation?
1:44:42
Are you seeing returns to scale on, you know, IT spend or or AI spend or any of this stuff? >> Yeah.
1:44:49
So um I think that will happen for sure.
1:44:51
I think that will happen for sure.
1:44:53
um the the in the asset level side.
1:44:53
um the the in the asset level side. So when you're when you're analyzing large pools of homes or mortgages sure >> or in the security historically that that's going to be much more of a data AI driven over time and our models will get better and better and hopefully
1:45:11
all things associated with big pools and a history >> you're going to probably get more optimal pricing and you can see companies like >> companies like Morpho like if you look at I don't know if you've seen the token like there's there are DeFi protocols that actually have market based pricing Yeah. >> On the smaller side where it's more flow
1:45:36
>> On the smaller side where it's more flow related businesses.
1:45:38
We have Apollo which does a lot of our large lending >> but then we have uh 16 companies >> which invest on our behalf that do specialty stuff.
1:45:46
So, our middle market lender, Midcap, will do that.
1:45:48
Has its own brand, its own employees, its own balance sheet, >> but we'll own some piece of the equity and some piece of those loans.
1:45:55
We bought G's aviation business. Okay.
1:45:59
>> So, we they do all the smaller or medium or big size aviation loans, but in many cases, it's our capital.
1:46:04
I I know there's some firms that that tend to brand themselves as like we will do a take private and we specifically want to focus on growth and then we know some other folks who will just buy stuff that's basically look the business has done everything it's going to do.
1:46:16
We're winding it down and so we're just kind of cash flowing it out and eventually that thing will just put on life support and it's sort of like built to scale or built to die and that's the thing.
1:46:24
Do you want to play in every market?
1:46:26
Do you want to take advantage of every situation and be able to see what what the trajectory of a business is and then just accelerate it along that or do you find a particular niche works well for you?
1:46:38
>> Our private equity business historically been valueoriented not necessarily growth oriented that that'll help >> with respect that we didn't buy any companies in 2122 that I think are going to be somewhat tougher to exit because of the prices that were paid >> and they they our team's done an amazing job.
1:46:53
Why didn't you buy any companies in 201 we have a 35 year history of buying at relatively low multiples.
1:46:58
So just nothing was available under that framework to buy.
1:47:03
>> Um and so we've been we people think of us as being more valueoriented defensive equity and then everything around secured lending. >> Yeah.
1:47:12
And on on the private equity side you have uh uh deal team members, operating partners that go inside the companies.
1:47:18
Is there a separation there or is it all one like kind of pool of >> We have our own we have our own private equity team with our own dedicated uh operations team operations go in and operate. Yeah, exactly.
1:47:28
Just a traditional traditional business. >> Yeah.
1:47:31
What what's your outlook on uh energy and and providing capital for various energy products everything from natural gas to traditional you know oil all the way through nuclear. >> Yeah.
1:47:43
So, uh, Europe, we we did a $4. 5 billion deal for RWE.
1:47:47
We did [clears throat] a $6. 5 billion deal for EDF. >> Keep doing this.
1:47:53
Uh, so we've done we've done some of the largest European deals for power, energy, transmission, uh, defense.
1:48:00
I think you'll see that continue. In the US, same thing.
1:48:02
Very large for BP, multi-billion dollar transactions. It is.
1:48:09
>> If you told me 5 years ago we'd be doing multi-billion dollar deals for S&P 500, IG globally in Europe and the US, I would have said like that's that's not going to happen.
1:48:18
Our our business the business >> of private markets is across every risk spectrum.
1:48:23
And it's really for some reason that's not again not really trans transmitted into the market.
1:48:28
It's just private credit's growing. It must be risky. >> Sure. Sure. Sure.
1:48:32
And so um I think you're going to the logical answer for long duration power projects which require lots of construction or data centers.
1:48:42
>> The logical place is for retirement 401k long duration investment grade annuities.
1:48:47
Anyone who wants long-term savings, >> it's a great it's a great place to be.
1:48:53
Um so I think you're going to continue to see private markets being the primary force around financing all that stuff. >> Yeah.
1:48:59
>> Yeah. uh how uh how do you guys approach sort of like questions or debates around uh things on the data center side such as like GPU depreciation right everybody has everybody has different opinion you can look at um uh part of it is like there's some element of it that's unpredictable you can also look at the present right which is like people that
1:49:20
have five >> I see some 50-year depreciation right >> uh uh but but uh you can look at the present and you can try to predict the future and then and then depending on who you talk to, you're going to get wildly different answers whether you're talking to somebody on uh over on this coast or somebody on on on the West Coast. I'm curious like your guys'
1:49:38
I'm curious like your guys' general kind of approach to like finding the answers to some of these questions.
1:49:45
>> I think there's going to be winners and losers.
1:49:46
I think um you know for us we've stayed more shortdated.
1:49:50
So we did a large uh for Valor and XAI we did a multi-billion dollar GPU financing but we stay at 5 years.
1:49:57
So effectively we're the senior trunch and then the equity holders are making uh the the assumption on what GPUs are worth later and longer.
1:50:08
>> That's that's hard for us as as credit providers. It's going to be hard.
1:50:10
I think anyone who says they know what the value of GPUs or the release rates are in year 5, 7 or 10, I mean it's hard to take that with any sort of credible view.
1:50:21
It's undoubtedly probably going to be the most violent cycle we've ever had.
1:50:25
The no one really knows how fat the tails are both right or left. >> Yeah.
1:50:33
>> But adding a lot of leverage to a assumption that you don't know if it's going to be a super bull case or a super bear case >> is kind of scary for us.
1:50:42
So, we've been a bit quieter on that side.
1:50:44
I do think that uh folks in Silicon Valley, folks in our audience are just really struggling to wrap their minds around uh the role of private credit here because it's a completely different uh just mental model to be in as opposed to just being a venture capital equity investor. >> Yeah.
1:51:01
I mean the thing is with this cycle uh it's so much more asset heavytally all these growth companies, defense companies, Seronic and Okay.
1:51:11
They're going to need manufacturing facilities, the nuclear companies, the power companies, the AI companies.
1:51:14
It's all asset heavy >> as opposed to you go back to Google 20, 30 years IPO. >> It's all asset.
1:51:21
It's all and and and the mental model is always asset light and the debt is bad.
1:51:27
>> And so, you know, I'm friends with lots of the guys on your show because this is changing. >> Sure. Totally.
1:51:33
>> And it's going to be all about who they can partner with and trust. >> Yeah.
1:51:36
Tech wasn't tech wasn't like didn't have low leverage because they just didn't like leverage.
1:51:41
They didn't need it this cycle.
1:51:41
You need it >> and it can be financed off balance sheet and it can be better optimized than actually raising equity >> and there's logical place for it.
1:51:48
It's just and so I think also the scale is not necessarily just directly tied to the problem.
1:51:54
I always I always go back to like you know the mortgage there are plenty of people that are making six figures and have a seven figure mortgage and it's like so if you talk about a company and you're like yeah the company's making a billion dollars and they have $10 billion of debt or something.
1:52:07
like that could math out fine if everything's, you know, flowing through and they're growing and whatnot.
1:52:12
Um, but yeah, >> listen, there's definitely a big pivot last week and a half.
1:52:18
>> Lots of questions about uh offbalance sheet debt.
1:52:21
Should it be on balance sheet, lots of questions about Oracle and others, lots of questions about some of the Neoclouds.
1:52:28
>> I think that's just going to that's going to push anthropic and and OpenAI public earlier. >> Oh, interesting.
1:52:33
I I think you'll see them I think I think they'll go public way earlier than is anticipated.
1:52:36
I'm not sure what consensus is, but I suspect that the more pressure and questions about that >> will require them to access >> convert market, equity market, securities, other markets than than just traditionally these kind of offbalance sheet leases.
1:52:51
>> I mean, what's your overall view on that all over the world?
1:52:54
So, >> feels like it's going to happen soon.
1:52:56
>> Yeah, I I think it makes sense.
1:52:56
What how are you feeling about the IPO market in the present?
1:53:00
Kramer was on talking about frustrations with different biotech companies going out and and and some of them being potentially lower quality.
1:53:08
Uh where are we in your view?
1:53:12
>> Well, you brought me to the New York Stock Exchange to talk about private markets, which is the funniest thing ever.
1:53:15
[laughter] >> But we we we spend I would say 70 70% [laughter] of our time talking about privacy. Oh, >> do you? And we're here.
1:53:22
So that's good partnership.
1:53:24
Um >> well the funny thing the funny thing Kramer kept speaking in share price and we're like we only think >> exactly >> like ramp the $33 billion company.
1:53:38
>> I mean look there's going to be next year's going to be I'm usually the credit guy is usually always the bearish guy.
1:53:43
>> I'm like I think lower rates I think tons of M&A.
1:53:46
tons of M&A. I think you'll see a lot more huge technology where who knows what the 4 trillion 5 trillion whatever the estimate of capital who will it will benefit but it's going to benefit the consumer >> at the end of the day it's going to benefit the consumer >> and >> when you say M&A though is this is this PE funds that loaded up in 2021 2022 finally I think I mean I don't think anyone
1:54:08
thought you know you see what's happening there's some very large M&A transactions you saw >> uh Echoar this year sold a bunch of assets in exchange for SpaceX stock and >> you know And people were like, "Wait, this company owns half of or not half but like half like they've got like but then you look at the you look at the debt and you >> No, but even that it's pretty it's pretty attractive. I mean it's a pretty
1:54:27
I mean it's a pretty way to actually get to get access to space.
1:54:30
I mean it was a pure play tracker, you know.
1:54:32
I'm not I don't know if I'm supposed to talk about that kind of thing, but it's pretty it's a pretty interesting way to get access to it. >> Yeah.
1:54:40
>> Uh they're making an open AI movie.
1:54:41
They're making a new social network Facebook movie.
1:54:44
Do you think they'll ever make a Caesar's Palace Heist movie? >> Oh jeez. I don't know. [laughter] I don't know. I hope not.
1:54:49
Um but uh >> but I mean seriously like because uh that book was introduced to me through our friend group and we were all like this is awesome.
1:54:57
But oftent times internally at these firms they're like everyone in Silicon Valley is like yeah social network awesome movie.
1:55:03
It inspired me to start a tech company and and Mark Zuckerberg is like not a fan right.
1:55:08
And so I'm wondering internally does the firm how does the firm remember the book?
1:55:12
Listen, we we um that that was so long ago in terms of the context of the business.
1:55:18
>> Uh we've become a complete kind of credit passive. >> Sure. Sure.
1:55:23
>> Uh and and the and the kind of activity we do dayto-day by and large is far different.
1:55:28
>> I I think generally speaking, our investors look at that situation and say, "Listen, they're going to fight for every dollar and everything."
1:55:33
So >> I think there's a balance between what the one thing as you grow >> Yeah.
1:55:38
>> is you want to maintain your investment culture.
1:55:40
And so how do you make sure you maintain your investment culture, recruit the best people and the paradox of growing but also really being a good investor?
1:55:50
>> Yeah, >> that's like a very tough balance sometimes.
1:55:52
And so, you know, I I wake up every day trying to make sure that we >> who on your team evaluates uh various AI tools that I'm sure you're getting pitched a hundred times. >> We have a whole team.
1:56:02
I mean, we have a team, it's called Lab 42, but um >> Rob Bitten Court really leads the thematic investing. You should have him on.
1:56:09
I mean he spends all his time assessing >> all the hypers scale all all the entire ecosystem both public [cheering] and equity you know let's go >> this is tree lighting the tree has been >> this is why we're together spirit >> we can't hear They said they've never done an IPO on tree lighting day. >> Oh, really?
1:56:46
>> The last 10 years or something.
1:56:47
>> Somebody's got to [cheering] do it. >> Yeah. >> It's Hank. It's Who is it? Isaria.
1:56:52
That's >> They got Santa here, too.
1:56:53
>> It's Hank Aaria, isn't it? >> No way. Oh, yeah.
1:56:58
>> Last time I saw him, he was in like a He's in a cover band. >> He plays in a cover. He's amazing. He's a cover band.
1:57:04
It's actually pretty good. That's amazing.
1:57:06
Uh there are a ton of people here.
1:57:08
This is as big as an IPO in terms of folks uh roaming the floor.
1:57:12
There's a lot of folks there.
1:57:12
There's some mascots over there. They're having fun.
1:57:16
>> Anyway, thank you so much for coming on the show.
1:57:17
We really appreciate you. Thank you so much. Talk to you soon. >> Talk soon.
1:57:24
>> Before we bring in our last guest of the show, let me tell you about wander. com.
1:57:28
Book a wonder with inspiring views, hotel grade amenities, dream beds, top tier cleaning, and 24/7 concier service.
1:57:35
And you know, you heard Jim Kramer talk about sleep.
1:57:39
We need to get him an eight sleep at eight. com.
1:57:43
>> Actually, that'd be a good Christmas.
1:57:44
>> Exceptional sleep without exception.
1:57:46
Fall asleep faster, sleep deeper, and wake up.
1:57:48
And >> we should we should actually get him an eight sleep for Christmas.
1:57:52
>> And our Hey, and you know, you're looking behind us.
1:57:54
There's some We're We're on the cubes.
1:57:56
You can see us over there. We're on that cube.
1:57:58
Actually, >> we're down to one cube.
1:58:00
>> We're down to one cube. The tree took over.
1:58:02
But if you want to put your brand, your logo on something that looks like a cube, why not get a billboard at adquick. com? I love it.
1:58:10
>> Out of home advertising made easy and measurable, plan, buy, and measure out of home with precision.
1:58:17
>> Uh people are joking around on the timeline.
1:58:18
Uh Meta of course is planning to cut 30% uh of their uh I guess the budget of their metaverse efforts.
1:58:27
>> So this is reality labs.
1:58:27
>> So this is reality labs. this reality >> which which has worked on VR and AR but also metaverse development and I mean it's a lot of the stuff that was on on on display during Metacon some really promising stuff some really cool stuff
1:58:40
but also a lot of spend and so they they they you know leaked today I don't know they announced >> and consensus media which I definitely >> could not be >> they say Meta will announce plans for name change new stock ticker within the coming weeks Zuck viewed as leading candidate for new ticker. Seems like
1:58:59
Seems like fake news, but it's certainly it's certainly fun.
1:59:05
>> I Yeah, I like the I like the meta name.
1:59:07
>> Max, I think it's I think it's >> former guest uh says the idea that this is the end of Meta's Metaverse Dreams is probably wrong.
1:59:15
I bet this will actually make them go faster. >> Uh and I agree.
1:59:21
>> I'm very excited for the next uh VR headset.
1:59:22
I think uh the quest for uh I think James Cameron tried it and really enjoyed it.
1:59:28
>> Kish uh last post and then we'll bring in our next guest says Link Tree is a billion dollar company. >> This is crazy.
1:59:34
>> A billion dollars for literally links in a tree. >> Yeah.
1:59:39
Uh Michael says you need to be stud you need to study business models.
1:59:44
You have to be investigation maxing value decoding.
1:59:45
You should never think the consumerf facing product is a thing.
1:59:49
There's a thing behind the thing that generates revenue. True.
1:59:50
We're supposed to unlock cash flow at a certain scale that justifies valuation. There's a vision here.
1:59:55
Uh so anyways, uh without further ado, let's bring in our next guest.
2:00:02
>> Hi, >> good to see you. Welcome to hang out. >> Congratulations.
2:00:09
[music] >> Day number one hasn't been going. >> Fantastic. We love this place.
2:00:13
It's fun as a med as a media person to be here because it it's become just the center for media. >> Yeah. Anyways, >> Kazaria.
2:00:24
>> It was him, wasn't it? >> Yes.
2:00:26
Our last guest was uh was IDing him and I couldn't uh I couldn't see from here, but it does appear that he's down there walking around.
2:00:32
It's a full on tree >> lady.
2:00:35
And with the buildaria, I don't know.
2:00:38
I don't know much about movies.
2:00:40
I was like, I have no watch TV.
2:00:43
>> No, he watches no movies.
2:00:43
No TV really >> very very rarely.
2:00:45
>> He was seeing one movie Borat and that's it pretty much.
2:00:47
Pretty much >> I saw a new movie Mountain Gate and I felt like I need to give a review for the show was about it was about some AI founders that go to the that go to I felt like loosely based on the All-In podcast.
2:00:58
I feel like I need to give a review.
2:01:01
>> Um anyways, so great to have you.
2:01:03
>> What's your go-to holiday movie? >> Oh my goodness.
2:01:05
Um can I say The Sound of Music?
2:01:07
I don't know if that's technically a holiday movie, but it's the one I watch around that time.
2:01:10
I feel it's nostalgic in an old way that like it's appropriate.
2:01:14
If you threw it on people, it doesn't scream Christmas, but people would be accepting of it as a >> um my controversial opinion is I don't like It's a Wonderful Life.
2:01:24
>> Oh, that one is a little bit of a tooth. >> H >> elf. >> Elf. >> Elf.
2:01:29
Yeah, I'll go for like is that a movie?
2:01:32
>> Someone told me, "What's your favorite color?" >> Um, >> okay.
2:01:36
So, anyway, uh please introduce yourself for the stream for those who might not know you.
2:01:41
What's your dayto-day like?
2:01:42
>> Um, so I'm Katie Dayton.
2:01:42
I write for the Wall Street Journal all about anything to do with brands, marketing, advertising, some media thrown in, and it's just basically any ways brands are really trying to cut through.
2:01:53
I think that is the underlying uh theme of my coverage.
2:01:58
>> And what what has been the big theme in your coverage?
2:02:01
>> It's interesting to coverage because when a brand breaks through, it's almost always for a different reason.
2:02:03
like it's an interesting set of circumstances that allow them to and and strategy on their part and some luck that gets thrown in.
2:02:12
Uh and it's so again there's not like a playbook.
2:02:14
If you're following a playbook, it's probably been done and it could work if you're in another category.
2:02:19
We saw this in DOC, right?
2:02:21
People were like, "Oh, if you make a pretty website and you run a lot of ads, you can sell a lot of a product."
2:02:25
And then a few other people did it well and then it basically stopped working.
2:02:28
like it it it can still work in certain >> the red antler trade didn't last. >> Yeah.
2:02:34
The red antler era was like you need $500,000 for a brand and you need a product >> and it worked for him.
2:02:39
He is a public company and is doing fine with >> Oh, that's right.
2:02:44
Was it Ro that worked with I think worked with anyway.
2:02:48
>> So I bought my first WBY Parker glasses last week and I thought God I'm a bit late to this one as well but that was that era for a while.
2:02:55
I mean, I think that's what's so interesting right now is that there is no playbook anymore.
2:03:00
Even if you're a humongous brand, you know, you're sort of when you're managing any kind of decline, there's no playbook for that.
2:03:05
And there's no playbook for a a young DTOC brand because, you know, >> we heard about an apparel brand that has scaled from 0 to 700 million of revenue in like 2 years. Uh, all on Tik Tok.
2:03:14
We never we never heard of it.
2:03:17
I don't know if they're public, so I I don't I don't know if the the numbers are public, so I won't share the name.
2:03:22
I'll share it with you uh after.
2:03:23
But remarkable but what what has been the big trend of the year in terms of your coverage?
2:03:29
What's been the biggest story or the biggest theme?
2:03:31
>> What's your word of the year?
2:03:32
>> My word of the year crisis.
2:03:32
>> My word of the year crisis. I think I think we have seen I think every brand right now uh if you look at American Eagle, if you look at Cracker Barrel just happening in the last you know in this sort of a space of a few months of each other
2:03:49
>> two very similar case studies >> two very different accusations being leveled at them >> getting sucked into politics and then the crisis comes comes out >> and the snowballing of it all um and I think now it's sort of making brands realize that nobody body is safe. You
2:04:03
You know, you change your logo before and before this year, I'm sure nobody really thought, >> especially like Cracker Barrel is not I mean, it's a beloved brand, but it's not like in everyone's face constantly.
2:04:13
It's not the Pepsi logo, which also went through a rebrand of the logo years ago, and people didn't like it and I think they tweaked it and whatnot, but uh Cracker, it shouldn't be such a massive story, but of course, the internet can amplify everything and it can just throw everyone in crisis.
2:04:30
>> What are you looking at for 2026?
2:04:30
I think well it'll be a lot more of that and I think it's going to be a lot more of brands kind of shifting their budgets maybe a little bit away from you know your traditional advertising into maybe some more PR.
2:04:44
I think it's really important for brands at the moment to be owning their narrative.
2:04:48
I think they're obsessed with that.
2:04:49
They want to be this is the whole reason they're all moving to Substack.
2:04:52
You know they're writing they're running their own YouTube channels, their own podcasts.
2:04:56
You know they want to be ahead of the game.
2:04:57
they want to be themselves before anyone else.
2:05:04
So, I think we're going to see like a big shift in like what comms looks like in general, which will be quite interesting to see.
2:05:10
And then the AI piece of it all kind of fits in with that because I think the big question is going to be >> do consumers care >> if a brand is using AI and if they do like how badly is that going to actually affect any revenue?
2:05:24
Well, it's going to be interesting because it's going to happen at the ad level, too, because the social platforms know the political leaning of the users.
2:05:31
And it's very possible that a brand will be like, "Here's the product.
2:05:34
You can figure out how to make the best ad for the end for the end user."
2:05:39
And then you'd have one brand with one product that's running political leading ads this way.
2:05:47
I do wonder I do wonder there's been some brands over the last kind of coming out of the the uh the kind of original Trump era that were just like right-wing brands or right-wing neo bankank.
2:05:57
We saw we saw some of these.
2:05:59
I wonder if we'll see more >> rifle coffee was kind of proto example. This my pillow.
2:06:04
This my pillow. I wonder if we'll see more more uh consumer brands just like basically put the political party in the footer and just be like even more uh >> a trend that I was thinking was like more brands investing in like becoming
2:06:16
the supplier and then just having two like faces two brands on top because I I think it's the long ter in the long in the long arc of history maybe the value accrrews to the the company that's making pillows for both the left wing and the right wing. >> I mean I'm sure that's probably already
2:06:29
>> I mean I'm sure that's probably already happening.
2:06:31
Well, it naturally happens in the supply chain, right?
2:06:32
Cuz no one's digging through the supply chain to figure out where their coffee beans came from.
2:06:37
>> I'm surprised we haven't actually seen more um sort of out and out rightwing brands coming through.
2:06:42
I mean, we have, you know, the ones you mentioned.
2:06:44
I guess they're they've been going down that route for a while now.
2:06:47
Um I And you know, given that what 10 years ago, it was a lot of brand purpose.
2:06:53
We always used to talk about brand purpose and how it was. Yes.
2:06:57
And every brand had to be aligned to a big cause of some sort that's kind of tended to swing to the left. >> Yeah.
2:07:05
It was like a clothing brand that was all about ocean plastic.
2:07:08
>> And then and then I think people realized at some point or another they wanted to buy >> the majority of consumers just want to buy a great product.
2:07:15
Uh and so it kind of flipped back where brands stop saying 1% of every dollar.
2:07:22
>> Do you think any big brands will intentionally try and throw their brand into crisis?
2:07:26
Because we see this in Silicon Valley all the time.
2:07:28
It's ragebait marketing where a startup will come out with a video that's designed to get cancelled because no one knows them.
2:07:38
And if they're getting cancelled, sure 100,000 people might hate them, but at least if they they thousand might thousand sign up, it's better than nothing.
2:07:46
>> Are you talking about the uh that Black Mirror one that came out a few weeks ago that was um there's a bot farm. >> Very good point.
2:07:53
>> There was a bot farm one.
2:07:53
There was Tik Tok for sports betting or gambling.
2:07:57
There was one that was a uh a coding environment that would let you gamble and watch subway servers [laughter] brain >> like illegal online casinos.
2:08:06
>> There was there was the whole clue saga which was a an app that allowed you to cheat on everything.
2:08:10
Of course, people don't like cheating.
2:08:12
>> I was thinking I was thinking of the you know uh you know dead relative to that one was very on the >> partnered with like a Disney star. Disney star.
2:08:23
That was crazy >> to the point where I thought this has got to be well or it doesn't exist and it's it's you know some kind of uh >> because I I I almost I almost believe that uh I I don't know the actual numbers but I think American Eagle might still be up on the like as a stock even during all that chaos like they netted out. Okay.
2:08:44
>> And I heard some people debating whether or not um Sydney Sweeney would wind up winning on the day.
2:08:50
I don't know how much she got paid and I don't know what the long term.
2:08:55
>> Yeah, I mean that one's interesting because American Eagle and and we just had it on one of our conferences, Craig, their CMO, you know, their line is very much like this was truly >> it was not meant to be political. It was not that.
2:09:08
And anyone that thought it was was in the minority and it was a lot of bot traffic that was driving.
2:09:13
So, you know, and I think they came out of it and they they think they came out of it because they stood by it and they didn't try and roll it back and confuse the messaging and they just sort of >> didn't like pay too much attention to it.
2:09:26
They didn't give it too much fuel.
2:09:28
It kind of burnt itself out that way.
2:09:28
I think we're going to be seeing like some more of those tactics.
2:09:32
Whereas before, if anyone was upset, brands would like immediately pull something and, you know, do the notes apology.
2:09:37
friend of ours uh who's been on the show before, Lulu Msurvi, she does comms or or helps on comms for a lot of startups.
2:09:44
She said yesterday, "Every media headline about a tech company is basically like this founder archetype is building the summary of your company or product.
2:09:53
Can it overcome common skepticism?"
2:09:55
Is [snorts] that like has that been is that evergreen or is that like do you think that kind of do you agree with that?
2:10:02
Do you think that kind of format is like having a moment right now?
2:10:05
I certainly have been seeing that quite a lot on like the cover stories of different uh like magazines like Forbes and Fortune.
2:10:15
I think >> there was a there was a there was a a journal piece on Cursor recently that was like similar.
2:10:19
It was basically like they grew from 3 to 30 billion in 9 months.
2:10:24
Like >> I'll let you answer, but I have a >> I Well, I think the pendulum swings, right?
2:10:28
So, you know, originally the press were accused of being too friendly >> to tech and then we've swung a little bit maybe and everyone's accused of being too antagonistic.
2:10:38
>> No, it was antagonistic. I think it swung back. I No, no, no.
2:10:39
I just think it's like kind of healthy right now. >> Yeah. Yeah, it is. It is kind of healthy.
2:10:44
>> Well, that's what I think what's what's being tried, you know, they don't want to say this is going to fail, this is terrible, these are terrible people, but they want to tell the human interest story of it.
2:10:53
I think that's where the friction >> stories need conflict.
2:10:56
>> stories need conflict. And I I know I know friends who have uh time and time again been in in industry in tech in technology protek and then they say we want to make protek stories and what you realize is that uh well you need an antagonist in a story and if you don't have an antagonist you don't have a story you don't have strife if you don't have a low point and so when I would
2:11:16
when I would talk to friends who were running companies I would say >> look >> like I know that you've had failures I know that you tried to raise money 5 years ago you're super successful now, but 5 years ago you tried to raise money and the investor pulled out at the last second and that employee that you wanted to hire said no and the product that you released crashed and no one bought it. Like I know that you've been through
2:11:36
Like I know that you've been through trials and tribulations. You have two options.
2:11:39
One is is hide those and try and tell the story of everything went perfectly the whole way and it will be a boring story that no one listens to.
2:11:45
Or you can tell the real story of the highs and lows and the ups and downs and you'll have a riveting story that actually makes you look more heroic because who who wants to watch Star Wars without any strife without you know >> when you tell people that Jedi are just >> the good ones the good ones totally get the good ones totally get it.
2:12:02
I' I've been in the situation where I've told this to a founder and the founders said like, "I get it."
2:12:07
And the comm's team has been like, "No, no, no, no.
2:12:09
We we're still trying to hide that skeleton in the closet."
2:12:12
And I'm like, "That skeleton's not that big of a skeleton."
2:12:16
Like you you lost one contract or like one customer failed.
2:12:18
But you know, a lot of people are in damage control and that's their whole business.
2:12:22
And so they say, "Don't let anything ever get out."
2:12:26
And and instead I think I think the people that understand stories, understand narrative, understand just entertainment.
2:12:31
Uh they get that you have to people like an underdog, people like a come from behind an up and down.
2:12:38
>> Well, and then this goes back to controlling the narrative, right? Like put it out there.
2:12:41
Put it weave it in as part of your talking points.
2:12:44
Tell the story >> and give the journalers something to work with uh that has friction like you said.
2:12:51
Otherwise, they're just going to go off and find it anyway.
2:12:52
some disgruntled employees going to come to us and risk of trying to over control with the owned media is if your own media doesn't have any conflict ever >> because anytime something bad happens to you, you don't post.
2:13:08
>> There's a few VC podcasts lately that got into a situation and just stopped >> stopped posting.
2:13:14
And so like imagine if you're if you're American Eagle or Cracker Barrel and you have a substack that you've built up or a YouTube channel and then there's a big dust up and you're just it's the best content of the year about you.
2:13:24
Everyone wants to hear from you.
2:13:25
You have an audience and a channel that's ready.
2:13:27
They're interested in American Eagle.
2:13:28
What more would they want to know about this and you're just like I'm out.
2:13:33
>> I think the Astronomer example again from this year that's a perfect example.
2:13:40
But he went ahead straight away.
2:13:43
That was >> master class. >> Master class. >> Master class.
2:13:46
>> We had the We had the founder on >> the founder, Pete. Pete, right? Petroy. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.
2:13:50
We had him on the show on our show a little bit later. >> And it was funny.
2:13:51
We were joking because they had the day before that controversy broke, they had published like a case study with RAM. Oh yeah. >> We were joking.
2:13:59
Who's who's our presenting sponsor? We were joking.
2:14:00
were like, "Did Ramp somehow like [laughter] >> um how many stories do you like how many pieces do you actually do you publish a year?"
2:14:10
>> A year I try and do I try and do about four to six a month I think whatever that average.
2:14:16
>> What does it take to get in the four to six?
2:14:18
>> Um I would say come with some friction, come with a story.
2:14:21
Um and and I always say it doesn't you don't have to be a huge brand.
2:14:25
You just got to give us some numbers.
2:14:26
You know the amount of people that say I've got a great story I want to tell.
2:14:29
We did this amazing marketing campaign concrete. >> Yeah.
2:14:33
Like well we are and my favorite line to use is we are the Wall Street Journal.
2:14:36
So you know you got to you got to give us some dollar signs. I like that. Awesome percentage.
2:14:41
>> This is a lesson for us.
2:14:41
We need to when we tell someone well we are TVPN.
2:14:43
We need to know what that means.
2:14:47
>> Maybe maybe we can impress upon people.
2:14:49
Don't come with your talking points is conversation. We are TVPN.
2:14:50
Like you talking you can't come with talking points because this is TVPN.
2:14:54
Oh, we're we're still >> your PR outside knocking on the window. Exactly.
2:15:00
[laughter] We were talking to Kramer about that.
2:15:03
That's the number one thing we want to do.
2:15:04
>> Do you think uh do you think we've passed uh the peak of wellness?
2:15:07
Like it feels like wellness is >> uh as a trend has been so impactful now that young people are proudly throwing up their hand. I don't drink alcohol. I never drink.
2:15:20
>> Is the unwell network doing well?
2:15:22
>> Uh isn't that antithesis?
2:15:25
That's the pendulum swinging back from wellness to >> I think I think you might be right.
2:15:28
Um but yeah, we we've just been having this debate internally like how how how durable is the trend?
2:15:34
>> Well, it's f it's difficult cuz you know what you you guys live in LA, I live here.
2:15:38
Um I feel like I feel I go out on a Friday night in the West Village, no one is looking very well, you know, like [laughter] the kids are drinking, they're smoking, smoking school again apparently.
2:15:50
Um, you know, I think but then the rest of the country, I don't know.
2:15:54
I think it's probably still the wellness is probably still sort of show that people aren't drinking very much, especially in the younger demos.
2:16:03
Uh, >> well, especially in I mean, in restaurants, we had David Chang on the show.
2:16:06
show. He was talking about how a lot of restaurants have are struggling just because they had this high margin revenue from alcohol that was getting tacked on to every bill that's you know evaporated to >> I mean it's very difficult to break out and I'm sure someone has whether a time with the economy is like it is it because of you go to a restaurant are you going to go well I can't really afford it so therefore this is like the
2:16:28
one thing I can like take off my bill or is it because I'm actually stopping drinking um and it's difficult to know that causation but I think uh you know, it's alcohol the the CMOs I speak to in the alcohol world, they all having a a pretty
2:16:42
>> not difficult time, but they they know that change is coming and you know, they're making little alterations and um they never if you've got an advertising budget, they've never been able to say, "Hey guys, drink loads." You know, go
2:16:52
You know, go out, have get absolutely plastered, have a great time.
2:16:57
So, you know, they haven't had to change their marketing too much because of that.
2:17:00
But I think in terms of, you know, where they're showing up and uh how they're presenting themselves in the real world, that will be quite interesting, you know. >> Yeah.
2:17:09
>> Um lot of other things that I'd love to talk about, but let's do it again.
2:17:17
>> Yeah, let's do it again soon. Good to meet you. Great. Congratulations. Thank you for coming on. Such a special place.
2:17:22
Um I I'm enjoying these ramp um these uh >> Good call not lighting a fire a candle in >> Yes.
2:17:32
You can tell that I'm not a pyromaniac cuz a pyromaniac just one mact one more burn your receipts times money save both. I like these.
2:17:42
>> Um these are very fun.
2:17:42
Well, >> how much time do we have to do timeline?
2:17:46
We are going to an event uh later.
2:17:46
We can pull up this >> do 10 minutes from Lulu. I haven't seen these.
2:17:52
She says, "It's worth signing up for Blueprint just to study the marketing emails.
2:17:55
They are fun and easy to read. Uh, no corpo slop.
2:17:57
Educational, so you're getting useful info rather than just being marketed to.
2:18:01
Great at building trust through transparent and proactive communication.
2:18:05
Why, Brian and Kate, write them personally, and you can pull some of these up.
2:18:09
Uh, I do uh I do think that um it's possible that Brian Johnson is the best marketer in the world right now. >> He's incredible.
2:18:19
>> He's incredible. uh he's competing uh and like actually you know the team are like innovating at a bunch of different levels like just like in creating uh uh you know plenty of people like you know want to critique him or disagree with his philosophy or approach or whatever
2:18:38
but as a business person you have to appreciate how uh he is just makes uh finds a way to make him the center of a lot of attention uh pretty much every single Organic >> king of organic and I know that I'm sure they spend a ton on on on traditional ads too for blueprint. >> It's going to be a monster of business
2:18:55
>> It's going to be a monster of business like and he has a CEO in the seat right now too, right? Didn't he hire? >> Yeah.
2:19:02
>> Or maybe he was going to hire but like there's going to be some operating >> somebody was claiming that his whole relationship with Kate was just a marketing stunt >> and it's like about so many celebrities throughout the throughout the years.
2:19:11
Uh all sorts of all sorts of >> There's definitely precedent for it >> about it.
2:19:16
Um in uh in other news uh did you see there uh >> K trucks are coming back? >> Yeah.
2:19:22
So something about um >> basically eliminating like Biden >> people are saying that so so so the news is that uh apparently you'll be able to buy a very small truck soon which is a thing in Japan supposedly not uh has been uh made illegal. >> Yeah.
2:19:39
So they were buy era vehicle fuel efficiency rules.
2:19:41
I feel like you haven't been able to buy one of these in a long time and it never made sense because it should be the most efficient.
2:19:47
>> The rule called for a yearly 2% efficiency increase for cars made from 2027 to 2031.
2:19:53
>> Um >> just took a lot of these off the road >> and uh yeah, it's the cafe the corporate average fuel economy standard.
2:20:01
[laughter] >> The the quote is so ridiculous here.
2:20:04
We're officially terminating Joe Biden's ridiculously burdensome, horrible, actually cafe standards that impose expensive restrictions and all sorts of problems.
2:20:13
Gave all sorts of problems.
2:20:15
>> I wonder if this will drive people back to Tesla and saying like I >> I bought this after Elon went crazy and then Trump went uh [laughter] >> and then Trump brought in these. I I don't know. >> I don't know.
2:20:28
I do think it's I if if uh the the the real uh loser here, I would say some people would say uh the environment.
2:20:35
Uh but uh potentially more direct is that company like Slate Auto that's trying to make a $20,000 truck.
2:20:43
Meanwhile, these manufacturers have been making the $20,000 truck. >> Yep. >> At scale.
2:20:46
Uh and they're super reliable.
2:20:50
>> But I mean, Americans have just voted with their wallets.
2:20:52
They do not want a twodoor truck.
2:20:53
It's just it's never worked.
2:20:56
like the Land Rover Defender.
2:20:59
There's there's so many examples of two twodoor uh SUVs that have just not gotten traction like the Nissan the Nissan Morano cross cabriolet also never took off but even with with true enthusiasts of course >> even the uh the Range Rover Evoke is a twodoor SUV I believe not done well.
2:21:16
Uh >> I'm very interested to see how many tour GW have you owned.
2:21:22
Do you think we're uh I there's some that I would love to own? >> Yes.
2:21:27
But they're not exactly flying off the shelves.
2:21:29
They're not being stocked on dealer lots because realistically you're going to be like, "Ah, I'd love the twodoor."
2:21:34
But then you think about your family and you're like, "I need the four-door."
2:21:37
And that's what everyone does.
2:21:38
And that's why every Ford F-150 four-doors.
2:21:42
>> Uh did you see that Adam Freed?
2:21:45
>> This is a hilarious bit by >> This is like a really good bit.
2:21:46
I'm surprised that this is the first time somebody has like done this bit so well.
2:21:51
Uh he was asked to uh Vulture asked him a question on their year-end culture roundup about a TV show that this uh that Charles here is assuming he hasn't seen.
2:22:00
And the question is was Bertha on the Gilded Age right to marry Glades off to the Duke?
2:22:06
Bertha Bertha Russell wasn't exactly wrong for marrying Glades off to the Duke, at least not by Gilded Age standards.
2:22:12
But she was morally compromised.
2:22:14
In that world, marriage was a strategic move, a way to cement social status and gain acceptance from old money elites who still look down on her family's new wealth.
2:22:22
To Bertha, securing a duke as a son-in-law wasn't just about ego, it was survival, [laughter] >> a declaration that she'd con conquer the very tried to exclude her.
2:22:36
>> Uh, uh, an incredible bit.
2:22:36
Uh we >> and then and then and then then they amplified it because they did a they did a video interviewing him, confronting him about it.
2:22:45
And so Vulture has just done a great job drawing attention to their uh Culturati 50 which I would not have been following this year and now I want to see the other 50.
2:22:55
So hats off to them for for that project.
2:22:57
In other news, uh Pomp is announcing a historic decision at BRR 100% of this is his digital digital asset treasury.
2:23:08
>> It's a digital ass bitcoin.
2:23:10
He's going to buy Bitcoin and then buy companies that produce more Bitcoin or something. >> Yeah.
2:23:14
100% of equity compensation for the CEO, me, and the board of directors will be tied to performance milestones.
2:23:20
CEOs and boards shouldn't be making millions of dollars unless retail shareholders are also winning.
2:23:23
Now that I am char I am in charge of a public company, I hope to set the standard for what true shareholder alignment looks like.
2:23:30
Uh I I do believe this was in reaction to an activist investor that accumulated around 7%.
2:23:38
>> Did he also set his milestone at 10 trillion?
2:23:40
He doesn't get a dime unless it's 10 trillion.
2:23:42
>> I can I can see that he's he's he's a permable bull.
2:23:45
>> That would be I don't think he's ever flipped bearish this this whole year.
2:23:49
No, I mean this is good and and and the interesting and the interesting iteration on this is that uh it's Elon has set himself up with the equity compensation tied to share price which went very well the first time and now he set himself up to do it again with Tesla.
2:24:05
And uh what's interesting here is that with Pomp's uh BRR ticker, he it's not just him, it's also the board of directors.
2:24:15
And I think that at Tesla that's not the case.
2:24:17
And so he's saying, I'm taking it one step further.
2:24:19
Now, I'm still interested to see what are the targets like because if you're like, you know, hey, I'm the stock moves 2%, I get $100 million, people aren't going to be excited about that.
2:24:29
But if you design those equity comp packages appropriately, obviously it's totally a win-winwin.
2:24:35
So, everyone can be very happy about that. >> Yeah.
2:24:37
We'll see how it do does uh once uh you know again a lot of these digital asset treasury companies have performed uh horribly recently and unclear >> Marvin was Marvin was texting me.
2:24:50
>> Okay so Marvin Marvin von Hagen is going to poke uh which is a uh social AI that uh lives in your messages.
2:25:01
Uh he says saw a Techrunch tweet 6 weeks ago that Meta is trying to ban Poke.
2:25:06
He said he directly asked for help on Twitter. Got a lot of intros.
2:25:11
Talked to the European Commission.
2:25:13
EU officially open an antitrust investigation today. X is unreal.
2:25:18
Uh he really uh is kind of Meta's Meta's worst nightmare uh today. Uh just um directing. He's basically M.
2:25:29
Are you really that surprised that Martin von Hagen is pulling Marvin Marvin? >> Sorry, sorry.
2:25:33
Marvin von Hagen is pulling the pulling the strings of the of the EU.
2:25:37
Uh but uh anyways, [laughter] >> uh pretty pretty interesting.
2:25:43
>> Well, good luck to him.
2:25:45
>> We'll have to Matt Slotnick says, "Maybe the best quote I've ever heard in an earnings call from Beni off. Quote, we did 3. 2 trillion tokens.
2:25:52
Let Bilbo Baggin know that we've got adoption and usages happening here."
2:25:57
That was just a shout out to JRR token token token token.
2:26:03
[laughter] >> That is so good.
2:26:04
Of course, he's firing shots at uh carp >> carp. That is hilarious. >> That is one.
2:26:12
>> And he also made one at Oracle. What is he saying?
2:26:14
>> Uh dig out of left to Oracle.
2:26:14
Matt says, "Make sure everybody realizes we're not building data center.
2:26:18
We're preserving our gross margins and cash flows and using the data centers that are being built." >> I love it. >> Um >> I love it.
2:26:26
Near says, "Today I learned I use more tokens than Salesforce does." >> Yeah.
2:26:31
I mean, the the I we didn't get into this with Kramer, but the token thing, this could go so fantastically wrong if it turns into like eyeballs.
2:26:41
Like, imagine if there's companies going out and publicly they're talking about like their token multiples.
2:26:45
It's like, yeah, like we we generate a hundred trillion tokens and so of course we should be a billiond dollar company.
2:26:51
And it's like you're looking at like like dollars of market cap per million tokens of generation.
2:27:00
>> I don't think I don't think we're going to get there.
2:27:01
I think I think there is like there is a precedent through the eyeball, >> but you could you could do that and you could think of that as a proxy.
2:27:06
Of course, the correct proxy is is revenue and we should stay in that world, but you never know. >> Y >> you never know.
2:27:14
>> Buco Capital says according to Jack Dorsey, Zuckerberg kills goats with a laser gun and eats them.
2:27:19
>> This is It's so funny.
2:27:21
What was your The question was, what was your most memorable encounter with Zach?
2:27:24
Well, there was a year when he was only eating what he was killing.
2:27:27
He made goat for me for dinner.
2:27:30
He killed the goat in front of you. No, he killed it before. I guess he kills it.
2:27:34
He kills it with a laser gun and then a knife.
2:27:36
Then they send it to the butcher. A laser gun? I don't know. A stun gun.
2:27:40
They stun it and then he knifed it.
2:27:42
Then they sent it to the butcher evidently in PaloAlto.
2:27:44
And then the quote drops off.
2:27:46
Imagine you have your buddy over and you're like, "Hey, look. I run a social network.
2:27:50
You ran a rival social network for a long time. I run Facebook. You ran Twitter. Let's just hang out. I'm going to show you." No, no, no.
2:27:58
That's not what I'm saying.
2:28:00
I'm saying I'm going to show you a little bit of my culture. Bro culture.
2:28:04
>> You're the You're a hippie.
2:28:04
You're You got hippie culture. I got bro culture. You're the Bitcoin guy. I'm the UFC guy.
2:28:09
I like to kill goats myself.
2:28:12
But, you know, you're not supposed to go leak it. What's going on, Jack? Come on. >> Come on.
2:28:18
>> Keep I showed you my culture in confidence.
2:28:22
>> What happens in PaloAlto?
2:28:22
What happens at the goat the goat farm stays at the goat farm. >> Apparently not.
2:28:26
Uh, also hilariously, >> by the way, I met we we figured out that a that a somebody on the show that's come on multiple times >> has hundreds of goats. >> Oh yes.
2:28:37
>> And nobody knows about this.
2:28:37
And people keep talking about the goat debate, this or that.
2:28:41
the goat >> and and we were talking with them and saying they need to keep quiet because there's a real >> real goat collector.
2:28:48
>> There's a real goat collector. >> The real goat herd. >> That's right. >> The goat herd. >> Uh what else we got?
2:28:53
>> Uh this is interesting.
2:28:53
Google taps uh Replet in challenge to anthropic and cursor.
2:28:59
uh somewhat somewhat surprising uh considering that that Google's going really heavy with anti-gravity, but I think like Google's invested in Replet for a long time like like they did they did a partnership or or investment back before Amjod was making a couple million bucks in revenue in in >> Replet. Uh yes. Yes.
2:29:21
Uh I'm almost positive that uh that Google has invested in Replet at some point. We we should look it up.
2:29:30
But um we're we're doing the fake news now.
2:29:32
We're done with the news. It's fake news. It's the fake news hour.
2:29:35
Um but congrats to Amjod on doing a deal with Google.
2:29:38
I wonder uh how that will will manifest.
2:29:41
Um because you are kind of competing with a lot of the folks at uh AI.
2:29:45
studio and there's a lot of different pieces of the Gemini team that you're kind of uh uh dealing with.
2:29:53
But at the same time like Replet is a unique product and Replet has never been um has never been a foundation model company. Yeah.
2:30:01
>> And so it does make a lot of sense to I I actually I actually like this a lot in the sense that uh you know where where has Google been fantastic >> model development.
2:30:09
Where have they been a little bit less speedy on the product roll out side getting the product in the hands of people? OMJ's great at that.
2:30:18
The replet team's great at that.
2:30:18
So, you put them together and maybe it makes a lot of sense, but uh it's still just early days. >> Two final posts.
2:30:23
Uh one, we missed this yesterday, but >> we have we have another Paul uh and uh the team over at Antifund >> uh have raised uh Jeff uh Jeff Woo have raised a new fund 330 million almost.
2:30:40
I almost said I almost said 300 million.
2:30:43
I'm sure they'll I'm sure they'll be there soon.
2:30:44
Uh but they are they say they're put account industry leaders like OpenAI, Android and Android, RAM, cognition and physical intelligence portfolio. >> 20inut video.
2:30:54
This is an interesting switch of a launch video. It's shot on the camera.
2:30:59
>> We were saying this we were saying this we were saying this like a year ago like the way that we we told some company I remember I remember the the I think I was saying to >> uh yeah I was saying to Zack I we was talking to Zack Dell.
2:31:10
You didn't end up doing this, but I was like, do the 20inut launch video, right?
2:31:13
Like, do a video that uh >> Well, you have a different idea that you should not leak because >> I won't leak that idea.
2:31:21
>> But I love that this I love that this happened the way it did.
2:31:22
And I think that this is a good format.
2:31:24
I think there's probably I think there's probably two to three more of these uh that will happen.
2:31:29
I mean, this does this does in some way in some way mirror the Johnny IV Sam Alman video of like them getting coffee together.
2:31:35
Uh, and like there's these interesting things that like they're not launching a podcast together.
2:31:41
They're just dropping a one-off conversation that's edited, kind of framing some of the history, explaining it.
2:31:46
It's a really clear way to communicate.
2:31:48
And of course, because these guys are master communicators, they understand media. And so, very excited. And what a portfolio.
2:31:52
Open AAI Andrew Ramp Cognition.
2:31:55
>> There's one person that will go unnamed that links all of those companies together. >> Fantastic.
2:31:58
You know, fantastic performance. You know the person? Of course I do.
2:32:01
Um, final post from uh TA TA, sorry.
2:32:06
Uh, he's highlighting a company called Plaude. >> Plaude.
2:32:10
This is something I've never heard of.
2:32:11
Apparently, >> but it sounds like they're absolutely ripping the most successful.
2:32:17
>> They said wearables were cooked, but Plaude records, transcribes, and sum.
2:32:18
Of course, it's another meeting summarizing uh product.
2:32:25
>> Uh 1 million units sold largely to doctors, lawyers, and sales people.
2:32:27
doctors, lawyers, and sales people. 250 million of annualized revenue bootstrapped and now profitable >> literally and and it's crazy like no no no no no drama no launch videos no crazy hype no no no rage bait just building in
2:32:42
silence we got to get this >> they raised around $5 million but some amount you know I think the more important thing is just that is that hardware is hard >> and we see a lot of corpses in the in the consumer electronics world but there are also major breakout successes. Uh
2:32:59
Uh the Aura Ring for example, like what a remarkable company to just show up doing revenue at their scale seemingly out of nowhere.
2:33:11
Whoop has done really well.
2:33:11
Um and there's something Yeah.
2:33:13
Oro, that's that's what I was mentioning.
2:33:16
And then this this new company, this meeting summarizer, fantastic.
2:33:19
Um and >> interesting heard a pitch.
2:33:25
I'm so curious to know what this does so well that your phone can't do in an app. >> I mean, I don't know. We'll have to ask them. We'll have to get out.
2:33:35
Maybe we'll have to buy one, test it out.
2:33:38
>> Well, >> um, thank you for tuning in.
2:33:40
>> Thank you for tuning in.
2:33:40
We missed you in the chat.
2:33:42
>> Uh, but we will see you tomorrow.
2:33:42
And, uh, thank you again to the NY team for hosting us.
2:33:48
It is, uh, totally surreal, >> uh, to be here.
2:33:51
And uh thank you to everybody that uh has made this possible by uh tuning in enjoying the show and supporting us uh however you have.
2:33:58
So have a wonderful evening and we will see you tomorrow. >> Thank you. >> Take care. >> Good night.