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All right, everyone, what's happening? This is Sam.
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So, on today's pod, I did something very selfish.
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So, I've got these two friends. One is named Nick Bare.
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So, you probably have seen Nick on Instagram or on YouTube.
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He's got millions of followers, and he owns this company called BPN, Bare Performance Nutrition.
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They do something like $60 million a year in sales.
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So, he's a really successful entrepreneur, but he's like a fitness fanatic.
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So, he looks like a bodybuilder, but he's run a marathon in like 2 hours and 39 minutes, which is a freakish time, but it's also freakish considering how big he is.
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And then we have Sahil Bloom, who's another buddy of mine who's really popular on social media on Twitter. He's a writer.
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You probably have seen him all over the place.
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And I just nerded out on fitness with these guys.
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We also talked a little bit about business.
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So, we asked the typical questions like, "Where do you guys spend your money?
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How much do you spend each month?
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Where do you like to invest your money?"
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Um we talked about their their companies and how they're growing, and we did a lot of business stuff, but most of this was about fitness, and I just asked them all the fitness questions that I had.
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I had a bunch of listeners send me questions, and I think it was a great time, and it was really fun to learn about what these guys are doing for training.
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Hopefully, it'll inspire you.
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So, anyway, check out the pod.
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Can I ask you So, I tweeted out that you guys were coming on, and I got a bunch of questions.
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They range from personal finance, fitness, business, all types of stuff.
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I want to ask you guys both a couple questions.
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I'm going to start which I'm going to start with one that sounds like the hardest, but I actually think it's the easiest cuz you answer this all the time.
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And I'll preface this by saying I've seen your your father in videos.
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I've seen your brother in videos, and I've seen you in real life.
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And so, I think I know what the answer is cuz I know the genetics that you come from.
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But, someone said, "Generally curious, how can Nick be natural given his performance?
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Please press him on this."
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And so, you constantly get asked if you're natural.
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I know you've answered it constantly, but just humor me for because this was a a very a lot of people ask this question. I am natural.
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And I used to address these these call outs and questions and claims all the time because I would get defensive in it like it was all the time.
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It's been like that since I started creating content.
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I even went to the extent of sharing blood work every month.
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I was going and blood work every month and I would share it on my videos during my bulk and my cut.
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And people like oh he's faking it.
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He's find he's finding work arounds.
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I'm like guys So I finally have gotten to a point where I'm just over addressing the the questions and the claims and the hate around it.
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And I'm just going to do my thing.
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Like even on this last marathon people were like he's using EPO. What is that? Like blood doping.
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I'm like what amateur what amateur athlete you know that's running marathon run marathon is taking EPO and blood doping.
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But then you're like how do I how do I get that? Does anyone have a guy?
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I'm like yeah I'm like who like where do you get EPO?
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I don't even know where you you'd you'd get that.
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Uh I I mean I've seen you in real life.
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You just have I think you're just a freak genetically and and I would be honored if someone asked if I was on a bunch of stuff.
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That would make me feel wonderful.
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Dude, also by the way like my my thing with this always is like I have a few friends who everyone says this about.
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They're like oh they you know definitely not natural.
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And I just know for a fact that that person has just outworked me in the gym on a daily basis for the last like 10 [ __ ] years. Excuse my language.
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And not by like a ton but by a little bit every single day for 10 years and that adds up to something insane and it looks like a totally different human being.
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So like when I see a dude that has way bigger shoulders than me or way bigger chest like I know that they probably did that extra set or they did the extra two reps that I was just like, oh, six is good and stopped.
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And so like, I just thought I I think it's such a cop out when people freak out about like, oh, are you natural or not? But not always.
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Sometimes they Because genetics are real.
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Like for example, Genetics are real, but like Genetics are like definitely a real thing.
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Like the the bare genetics are solid.
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Dude, your dad ran like a sub six mile.
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I don't remember what age he is, but he was some, you know, he was a grown man and he still was huge.
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Like you got And then I saw your brother.
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Your brother looked like you competed in the strongman games.
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I mean, you guys are just huge. Yes, my my dad's 60.
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My uncle, his brother, is 57.
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If you saw both of them with their shirts off after running, they still both run marathons, half marathons.
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I mean, six-pack abs, chiseled arms and shoulders.
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They don't take anything.
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They're not They're not on TRT or any of that stuff.
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They're just like farm boys who grew up in central Pennsylvania, milking cows and and baling hay.
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Well, dude, listen to this. So Sahil texted me.
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I I I nerded out with him.
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I go, I go, "Dude, I just hung out with Nick Bare um and and it was amazing."
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And Sahil was like, "Yeah, he's, you know, he looks great, whatever. But how tall is he?"
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And I was like, "I'm pretty sure he's my height or just like an inch shorter. Uh so he's pretty tall."
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And I sent him this picture and I remember in that photo, I think I think Nick, you were at like your weakest.
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You were about to run a marathon.
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I was at my strongest and our squats and bench were like almost the same.
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I think you did 5 lbs ahead.
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And um you just like looked so much better.
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And I you know, we were like, this sucks that like we're kind of comparable, I guess, in terms of strength, but like he just he just has it. He just has it.
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Like you you just you just have whatever it is that you just you look good. I appreciate that. Genetics are real. Ari's laughing at me. Being tan helps, Sam.
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You got You Sam, you got to get a tan, man.
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You're too pale to uh you're too pale to have good looking abs. That's genetics, man.
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It's that's another genetic support. He just has it. And so, I don't know.
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Everyone Everyone in the comments are going to make fun of me that I'm just like flirting with you, but you know, I'm just saying what people think.
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Genetics are like a a real thing.
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You can take person A, person B, different genetics, same work ethic, same diet, same training program, and you're not going to get the same results.
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And people people send me messages all the time.
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They're like, "I eat exactly what you eat.
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I train exactly what you train.
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I run exactly the same miles as you, but you don't look the same."
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Well, yeah, because genetically we are not the same.
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Like, we have different DNA, so it's going to have different results.
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It doesn't mean you shouldn't eat right and train and and try to do your best, but like I will give I will give genetics the credit they deserve.
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But also, I am one of the most consistent people I know in terms of training and recovery and diet.
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Like, my diet is dialed in. I still enjoy myself.
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Like, me and my wife will go for dinner, I'll get some drinks, I'll like order the whole menu and try everything. I love food. I'm a big foodie.
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But my my diet 90% of the time is so regimented and dialed in.
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I'm eating my meals when I'm not hungry.
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I'm eating my meals when I know I need nutrition to fuel workouts.
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Like, it is for me a lifestyle that I truly love and embrace.
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Are you like that, Sahil?
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Are you as dialed in as you think? Yeah.
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I mean, I'm just like I I probably have a similar wiring to you, Nick.
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Like, I'm I kind of have like a obsessive personality, and so when I when I commit to something or dive in on it, it's going to piss off everyone around me because I'm like if we were traveling during the day and I get home at 10:00 p. m.
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, but I had a 6-mile run to do, I'm going out at 10:00 p. m.
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and have to go hit the run, and it's not a question.
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And like if I get home at midnight, but I'm the type of person that wakes up at 4:00 and gets in my cold plunge, I'm waking up at 4:00 and getting in my cold plunge.
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And I'm I feel the same way as you in general on the genetics thing, although I will say like when people say, "Oh, I do the same workouts as you. I run the same miles. I did the same thing."
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I call [ __ ] Cuz I I just don't like I've I've trained super hard my whole life, but there are people that I just know have trained harder than me cuz I know like in the back of my mind I know for sure that like I could have probably done two more reps on something, but I like was working out on my own in my in my home gym, and I just like took it easy.
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And that two reps compounded over 5 years makes a difference.
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Um to the point I'm like time being a lever, and so I'm honest enough with myself on some things where like with running I post all my stats, and so there's no hiding, right?
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Like if I'm going to post my Coros, you know, screenshot or whatever on my Instagram from any run workout, I can't hide from whether or not I put in the right amount of effort on that workout.
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But lifting, I can totally hide from it.
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Like I'm not [ __ ] You can't see all the stats exactly on what I did and how many reps I hit or whatever it was.
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And so it's also just like the accountability that comes with sharing things publicly on your progress that I feel like for you, like you've been basically doing that for what, 6, 7, 8 years?
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Like you've been showing your process in public, and the accountability that comes from that that people are out there waiting.
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Like, "Oh, what's Nick's next thing? What's he going after?
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Is he going to hit his goal?"
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That adds a whole lot of fire.
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Like when you're running Sim and you're struggling mile 20 and you're like, "This isn't for This isn't for me.
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Like I I have a million people out there that want to see me get this 2:39 done, so I'm going to go do it.
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I mean, that's that's why we included a small clip in the video after that race was over.
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But, that's why these when you hit your goal in a race or you hit your goal in anything, it feels so good when you hit it cuz you know the work that went in.
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And all I kept saying after I got across that finish line at CIM, I kept saying, "Man, I'm so [ __ ] proud of that.
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I'm so proud of that one."
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Because like you know all the work that goes into it, the early mornings, hitting your workouts, making your hit your your paces, making sure you fueled properly the night before these big workouts.
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And when I was at like mile 20, I knew I was I was running sub 2:40.
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Like I I just knew I was on pace.
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I was like, "I can hold on for the 6 miles."
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And I could feel this lump just like forming in my throat. I was getting emotional.
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So, I was thinking, "Man, all this work like this is why I did it."
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I'm holding 6:05 paces at mile 20 with 6 miles left. Like home stretch.
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And when you finally hit that goal and it's because of the work you put in, like there is nothing that replaces that.
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My um my dad and I have been really close my whole life and I played baseball in college, Nick, in case in case we we hadn't talked about that.
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And um when I had to retire cuz I was hurt, the hardest thing was telling my dad.
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Um cuz so much of our relationship had been built around the sport and built around, you know, him coming to all my practices, taking me to all my lessons, all that stuff over the years.
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And he told me at the time like, "I don't care.
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I'm going to be there to cheer you on in whatever your next thing is in life."
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And at my marathon, uh he surprised me and flew out for it.
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And I remember like those last 6 miles, I was hurting so so bad and all I was thinking the whole time was like, "I got to get to my dad. He's at the finish line.
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He's there waiting for me.
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And when I crossed the finish line and I had done it, I'd gone sub three, he was standing there and I like broke down completely.
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I mean like all of the emotion that you hold in from that, you know, from trying to get to something and like struggling through it, hitting your goal, um that emotion like it's completely unparalleled.
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Like nothing I've ever experienced in life, just that that rush.
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I think that's why people keep signing up and and doing races or signing up and committing to hard things is cuz when you finally accomplish it, it's like uh I reference this part of this book all the time cuz I think it's so applicable, but in Tim Grover's book Winning, he talks about achieving your first win.
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And when you achieve that first win, no matter what it is, it builds this little ounce of confidence.
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So then you set out to achieve another win, but that win is larger and more ambitious and requires more work, more effort, but when you finally get it, it builds more confidence.
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And you keep applying this thing over years and years and years and you keep pushing out what that win is and could be through the process of succeeding and failing and winning and losing, you build this massive amount of confidence where you finally get to a point thinking, "Oh, I can actually do whatever I want to do."
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That's a really powerful position to be in.
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That's why I always say there's no such thing as a loser who wakes up at 5:00 a. m.
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and works out because it is so hard to do and if you are losing in life and you're not happy with where you are, get up early and work out hate when you say that.
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You piss me off so much when you say that because I get out of bed at 7:00 or 8:00, but I'll be doing stuff until 1:00 a. m.
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Whenever you say that, I feel so guilty.
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But that is I'm not saying it on the other end that you can't win.
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I'm saying if you're not happy with your position in life, one of the biggest reasons is that you need to change your self-identity, right?
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Like you need to start identifying as a winner.
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Exactly what Nick said, like you need to create evidence that proves to yourself that you're a winner.
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And waking up early and working out is the easiest way to do that.
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And like it still sucks, but if you do that for a week, you immediately are like, oh wow, I can do that.
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That's one hard thing that I do.
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I'm like you start to change your brain chemistry around who you are as a person. Dude, I feel so shitty.
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I'll wake up, I'll look at Instagram and I'll be like, all right, I just got up at 8:00 and then I see Nick post and it's like I think on Saturday or something.
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It's like Dude, he just ran 8 miles.
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He already Just ran 72 miles at a 6:15 pace.
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like his Instagram post I I'm all [ __ ] And fed his daughter a great meal.
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Yeah, like he does all this before I'm even awake, but I in my head I'm like, that [ __ ] is going to bed at 9:00 though.
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I'm I'm up I'm up between 10:00 and 10:00 and 1:00 a. m.
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I I am I am a morning person.
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I am not a a night owl by any means.
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But now now my now my daughter's born and she's getting older, if I don't wake up at 5:00 and work out, there's a chance that it's it might not get done.
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So like right now we're going through this sleep regression where she's waking up at the oddest times and screaming her head off in the night.
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So like last night, woke up in the middle of the night, gave her a bottle, put her down.
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She didn't want me to leave her room, so I ended up sleeping the rest of the night next to her crib.
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My alarm went off at 5:00.
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I was like, all right, here we go.
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Went downstairs, went through my routine, went out for my run. Ugh.
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There's nothing that makes me more sick to my stomach than morning air.
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Um let me ask you guys let me ask you guys a a quick question.
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Um this will be it's meant for Nick, but so I want to hear your answer, too.
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Nick covers all fitness and diet stuff extensively on his channel, but I want to know his monthly burn.
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So where what he spends his money on and where he puts his money invests his money outside of BPM.
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So investing-wise, at this point in my life I haven't gotten to a point where I have any personal interest in investing, so I just hire a financial advisor and he takes care of all of my investments for me.
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Maybe at some point I'll actually be curious and explore that curiosity, but like I work with a guy. We make a budget. Index funds probably.
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Yeah, I'm just like, take this money, put it where you think it's going to make me some money.
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Uh other than that, I mean, most of my money that I'm spending is either going towards my mortgage, investing back into the business, my personal brand, and mainly food, to be honest.
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Like, me and my wife you spend per month on food?
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Just groceries, maybe like It's hard to say cuz we'll do like one big grocery haul a week, then I go like every other day to the grocery store.
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And I'm going like these exclusive like butcher shops here in Nashville.
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So, like, maybe I spend $2,000, $2,500 a month on groceries, but then we're going out to dinner and like when we go out to dinner, it's we want every appetizer, every entree.
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We're going to sample stuff, get a few cocktails, like we that's our thing is we love Sure. experiences like that.
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And we'll do some big vacations every year.
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Like, I'm not going out and buying a lot of materialistic things right now.
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It's more so on experiences.
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So, you haven't gotten on the no alcohol train, Nick? Nope.
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Uh to be honest, I I I really have no interest on the the no alcohol train.
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Like, I'm not a big drinker, but like if me and my wife are going to date night on Thursday, cuz Thursday's our date night night, I'll get one drink, maybe two drinks, but I really really never drink over two drinks ever.
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Wait, do you drink, Sahil?
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I'm the same way as Nick.
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Like, I I um I think like when it enhances the experience with the person you're with, uh I love it.
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And then I just I've cut all like drink by myself at home out of my life.
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do any drinking by myself.
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But like if if I'm with a group of people and we're having like a an old-fashioned or opening a bottle of wine, I do think it enhances the experience and the conversation's always good and it lightens the mood a little bit and it allows you to just relax.
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What what's your style What's your answer to that question?
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What do you What do you do You do with your money the same thing I do.
17:47
You just are in Vanguard Index, right?
17:51
Yeah, I mean we were like I was much more fun with my money when I was in my private equity days uh cuz then it was like I don't know.
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I was just like freewheeling in my 20s doing whatever the hell.
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And then we had a kid and I was like, I should probably start just being really boring with this.
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And I feel like you influenced me in this.
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Like we're in this group chat all together with a bunch of uh absolute degenerates.
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And they all like sling their money into the most degenerate stuff and they're always texting the thread like this is the best new opportunity.
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like a million dollars of aluminum or a million dollars of some some [ __ ] that I'd never even heard of.
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And And without fail, by the way, like 6 months later it's at its all-time low.
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Like this thing just absolutely tanks. Yeah, it's stupid.
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Or they'll short stuff or whatever.
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I don't even know what it they do, but it's like these the terminology that I don't even understand.
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I mean it goes back to like the fundamental thing is like you should spend more time figuring out how to increase your income versus like what your returns are investing for the vast majority of people because that's a much bigger lever for your long-term financial wealth.
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Um what I did for a while.
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I just I just focused on how to make more money, how to how to build revenue streams.
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And then I got to the point where like I was finally ready to start investing and I was able to invest or put put a lot of money a month that I didn't need to spend or or have liquid.
19:15
Yeah, and it's just like I just like to not have to think about where that is, though.
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Like yeah, I I I do that, too.
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I just want it to sit and like I basically want it to just track an index and just go sit there.
19:23
But to the burn question, Sam, we probably spend like I don't know, 20, 30 a month or something like that um all in on everything.
19:31
And groceries probably similar to similar to Nick.
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We probably spend three to five a month um on food.
19:40
I don't even know I don't know what my monthly spend is at the moment, but maybe 20, but I can see why New York would be significantly higher, but You're about to get on the uh northeast grind, right?
19:52
Yeah, I'm thinking about moving up there and I'm looking at the difference in prices and like it's it's uh it's pretty meaningful compared to Texas. Uh yeah.
20:01
Are you thinking Are you thinking about going to the city?
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So, my in-laws live uh around in this in Manhattan and I frankly hate Manhattan.
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I like Brooklyn, but I have a newborn and I think that we will likely do the most bougie thing on earth, but um there's a town called Westport, Connecticut.
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It's next to Greenwich, Connecticut.
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So, you could say I'm going to be moved to Greenwich, Connecticut, which is like clay clay tennis courts and white skirts and [ __ ] like that, but I think we're going to, yeah.
20:31
But we like I I'm testing it out, so I rented a place for uh a few weeks uh in late January just to see what it's like and I'm looking at what the rent is and like a comparable home to where I am now cuz I don't want to buy at the moment.
20:43
It's like 20 grand a month in rent.
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I mean, it's just like crazy.
20:47
Uh so, you The biggest reason, by the way, that Sam's not saying for why he's moving here is because it's like 20 minutes from me and we have a long-term plan of my son, Roman, and his daughter, Naomi, uh starting to build the uh the Parr Bloom empire here.
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So, we need to like start cultivating it early in their in their young years.
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Yeah, I'm okay with that.
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Uh we're we're just planning ahead.
21:08
Um all right, let me ask you guys another question.
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Um Uh this is a two-parter.
21:14
So, what do what do you most people get wrong about health and fitness?
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What makes you want to Nick, what makes you want to throw your computer out the window when people say it online?
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And the second thing is um we'd love an honest assessment of time requirements, and what's the best bang for your buck for workouts?
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Because a lot of us listening are entrepreneurs, and we don't have a ton of time.
21:33
Um so, what's like the best bang for your buck? So, that's a two-parter.
21:39
I mean, they they I can answer both probably in one answer.
21:44
I think most people think that they need to spend like an hour running a day and an hour strength training day.
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So, everyone thinks they have to spend like 2 hours training a day.
21:56
And I think you could easily split that 45 minutes to an hour a day split between strength and endurance training and get like a really really solid workout.
22:05
But I think you have some sort of you have to have some sort of level of cardiovascular conditioning as well as strength into your programming.
22:15
When you say cardiovascular, do you mean like hit?
22:17
Like a like a 60-minute Barry's, or do you mean like a like a Barry's Bootcamp class, something like that, or a body weight thing?
22:21
Or do you mean walking, or do you mean zone two steady pace stuff?
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I'd say it's a mixture between zone two zone three, cuz most people, to be honest, aren't spending their time in zone two.
22:32
Zone two is actually like super low.
22:33
Which is like what, 130 beats per minute for like a 30-year-old?
22:39
Yeah, it's it's it's low.
22:39
And most people are not doing any zone two training.
22:45
So, I I like zone two cuz what's the benefit of zone two, though? Aerobic base building.
22:50
But what's that mean for Does that make me live longer?
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Does that make me less likely to have a heart attack? What's it do? All those things.
22:55
Helps uh cardiovascular health.
22:59
It helps build your aerobic foundation so that you can utilize oxygen more efficiently.
23:04
Like you're not going to go run a sub 3-hour marathon by just doing speed work.
23:08
You need that aerobic base building where your body is learning how to utilize the oxygen at a more effective and efficient rate by then using fuel sources appropriately alongside of.
23:21
So like I'd say a split between you probably want just talking about cardiovascular conditioning 70 to 80% of that training being your aerobic zone, whether that's zone two, zone three, which is like lighter, say you're walking, hiking, jogging, something like that.
23:38
And then 20 to 30% of your cardiovascular conditioning is more hit.
23:43
You go to a Barry's Bootcamp.
23:46
You can go do like a my my wife does SoulCycle, like a SoulCycle class, hop on your Peloton, go do some sprints, speed work out, something like that where the heart rate is getting elevated.
24:00
Uh lactate threshold type stuff.
24:03
So if you split your your cardiovascular training between aerobic zones and some high-intensity interval training, and then you have compound movements, strength training, you're doing some some heavier movements, working with free weights, barbells, machines, stuff like that.
24:17
You don't need to spend 2 hours every day.
24:22
You can spend 45 minutes to an hour you know, 4 days a week, 5 days a week.
24:28
I personally love to train but I'm working out every day of week doing something, moving my body.
24:34
For strength training, what do you what do you say?
24:35
Is like do you tell people like do the 5 by 5 or like what what's your suggestion?
24:39
Just squat, deadlift, bench? What do you do?
24:42
I mean there's a lot of different ways to approach it.
24:46
Like right now I personally enjoy the push pull leg split, which is a a 3-day split you can do three workouts a week or you can do six workouts a week.
24:57
So like a push day would be all pushing movements.
25:00
It'd be chest focused, shoulders, triceps, pushing being upper body.
25:07
And then a pull day would be back, biceps, movements like rows, all upper body again.
25:13
And then your lower day is um lower body, legs, quads, hamstrings, glutes.
25:21
I like starting every strength workout with some some warm up movements and then going into a a heavy working compound movement exercise like a barbell squat, you do a deadlift, you can do a hex bar deadlift, bench press or dumbbell chest press, and then having some accessory movements alongside of that to support the development of the muscles that you're utilizing for those big compound movements.
25:48
So, that's the way I like to approach cardiovascular and then strength training.
25:53
I don't personally like to mix the two, like the the CrossFit approach.
25:57
I've never fallen in love with that.
25:59
Like when I'm strength training, I like strength training.
26:01
And when I'm doing my cardio, I like cardio.
26:03
But I don't I don't like like doing them together.
26:05
I like when they're separate and distinct and separated.
26:12
Now, moving on to I think where like what irks me about the fitness space.
26:16
I actually made a post about this yesterday.
26:21
Cuz everyone going into a new year is going to have new training and diet goals.
26:26
And everyone thinks that like there's this new thing that they're going to do that's going to change their life, it's going to change their body, it's going to change their health. So, January 1st starts.
26:35
People are thinking, I need to do something new. What should I do?
26:39
I'm going to do carnivore.
26:41
No, I'm going to do keto.
26:43
I'm going to I'm going to go like strictly bodybuilding.
26:44
No, I'm going to just like just going to run.
26:45
So, people go to these extremes thinking it's like the magic pill they haven't tried yet that's going to unlock this hidden potential that was just disguised by everything else they were doing previously.
26:58
And the reality is that like that's not going to change anything.
27:02
If it does, like the the changes are incremental.
27:06
But what makes this compounding change in your life and your fitness and your health is just being consistent with eating better, drinking more water, moving your body.
27:18
That's why everyone's talking about getting in more steps.
27:19
When you're getting in more steps, you're just being more active.
27:23
Going to the gym on a regular consistent basis.
27:26
It's creating creating habits and routines in your life that help you facilitate these healthy habits on a consistent and regular routine.
27:34
Sean was telling me that he was talking or he saw the guy who started a slice, it's like a piece pizza app.
27:41
He was like, "Between January 1st and January 11th, our sales slump."
27:47
And he goes, "On January 12th, that's National Quitting Day."
27:48
And he goes, "We see all-time high sales on for people ordering pizza cuz everyone from their New Year's resolution is giving in on January 12th.
27:56
That's where That's where it ends." 11 days, that's wild.
27:59
We owned a ton of uh Planet Fitnesses uh back in my PE days and that like first 10 days of the year is like rainmaker season.
28:08
Like you're just sitting there just like watching the fees pour in like praying to the rain gods for all the money that's coming in.
28:15
And then inevitably, those people just don't end up going to the gym. They still get paid.
28:21
Yeah, they still pay Planet Fitness makes their deposit business model.
28:22
They make a deposit cuz the catalog is like Yeah, and then you get you get like 10,000 members for a gym and maybe like, you know, 5 10% of them actually like regularly use it.
28:33
So the equipment doesn't have to get refreshed that often.
28:36
It's like I mean it's an incredible business model.
28:37
All right, here's a question for Sahil.
28:40
So we didn't even mention this, but Sahil Sahil, you mentioned that you were a baseball player.
28:45
I was a runner all through high school and college.
28:46
The baseball players were usually the douches who made fun of the runners because of our shorts.
28:51
And about a year ago, you got you got into running.
28:54
You made all these grand claims about these times that you were going to run.
28:58
You said you were going to break 18 in the 5K, you're going to break through I was like, you're an idiot, dude.
29:01
You don't know what the hell you're talking about.
29:03
Turns out you were completely right. You nailed all of it.
29:05
You you you crushed it in running.
29:07
And someone asked what the biggest So so at this point you by the way you're a pretty like you're like a pretty successful runner for like in the weekend category in the weekend warrior category.
29:17
You're like top top in that category.
29:19
Uh which is uh sounds like a left-handed compliment.
29:22
That's not what it That wasn't supposed to be that.
29:23
It was That was a compliment. I take that. That's good. That was a compliment.
29:27
Someone said, "What's the uh biggest surprise Sahil's learned from getting more into running?"
29:30
Honestly, it goes back to what you said.
29:32
Like when I was um when I was in high school, like I thought runners were nerds.
29:35
Um and in my mind it was like the nerdiest sport.
29:40
Like I couldn't imagine running or like being into I was like, "Ah, it's not it's you know, it's not a team sport.
29:46
Like it's not it's it doesn't seem hard, whatever."
29:48
And I have developed unbelievable respect for endurance athletes and for runners from having gone through this because I mean a a few reasons.
29:57
First off, the training is so many hours and so monotonous.
30:00
And you have to fall in love with the long slow runs.
30:04
Like it you know, in baseball it was all intensity.
30:08
So you could get excited about, you know, like a really fast sprint, uh you know, I was a pitcher.
30:12
So like a bullpen session or whatever.
30:14
But with running, like if you're going to be a marathoner, you have to love the 22-mi at a like 8:30 pace. Just zero fun.
30:20
Like you have to fall in love with that and be willing to do that over and over and over again in order to become a great amateur or to become elite, you know, like on Nick's level and above.
30:31
And you have to do it consistently over a long period of time.
30:35
And then the second one is just like the mental fortitude to pull through a race is badass. Like it hurts so bad.
30:42
I mean, I would argue that the 5K is the most painful.
30:44
Like I did So, my my PRs were the 2:57 marathon, which was painful, but in like a your legs are cramping kind of way where you just need to like grit your teeth to the finish.
30:56
I ran the 4:59 mile, which honestly didn't hurt that bad because it was too short to hurt.
31:01
Like it was just it was over before it could really start to hurt.
31:05
It was like you're breathing really fast, but didn't hurt that bad.
31:08
But the 5K, which I ran 17:52, was like excruciating pain.
31:14
Absolutely like the last five laps of that were the most miserable experience maybe of my life.
31:17
Um just like past your lactate threshold, awful.
31:20
And the mental fortitude that runners have and that endurance athletes have to grind through that, I now like I no longer think runners are nerds.
31:28
I think it is legit badassery.
31:30
And especially when it's like a runner that has body weight on them, I think it's unbelievable.
31:36
Well, the the the the runner like the the runner has evolved over the years, too.
31:43
Like now, running's become so popular in the past couple years.
31:47
It's it's Do you think it's because of people like you?
31:49
I mean, I think I think that you've created like a huge trend of these like it's it's now macho to be a runner.
31:56
Yeah, I I do think that like COVID and the pandemic definitely contributed a lot of that where gyms were closed down.
32:04
And this is why a lot of my content actually started growing is because I was pumping out running content for like a year and a half before the pandemic hit.
32:14
And then pandemic hits, all these gyms close, people have nowhere to to work out and train, and they need it for their physical health, but also their mental health.
32:23
So, people start running and looking for running content, and my content blew up during that time because everyone was looking for how to run, especially you know, people who are focused on strength now transitioning and evolving towards running.
32:38
But I I mean I think running has become cooler because there's a different look to running now.
32:45
Like you can carry more weight.
32:45
You can look like a bodybuilder.
32:46
You can look like a strength athlete.
32:49
And there's these different parts of running that exist.
32:52
Like the ultra scene has come up and I didn't know what ultra running was years ago.
32:58
And you have like these badass disruptive races.
33:00
Like have you guys heard of the Speed Project? No, what's that? Yeah.
33:04
So the Speed Project is like this underground race that happens and you start in LA and then it goes to Las Vegas. There's no spectators. There's no rules.
33:18
You just get there as fast as possible and it's a relay race.
33:22
So you have a team of I say like maybe six people.
33:26
I think it's like 300 miles and someone has to be running all the time.
33:31
But it's like super disruptive, really like aggressive, in your face look and feel. It's badass.
33:38
And then you have races like have you guys heard of the Barkley Marathons? No, what are these?
33:41
Dude, you guys you guys need to watch this documentary like tonight.
33:45
It's called Where Dreams Go to Die. Oh, I have seen this.
33:50
And this race happens in Tennessee.
33:53
It's I think there there's five loops and it's run by this guy named Laz.
34:02
And you can't have a GPS watch.
34:02
You don't have uh like any sort of sense of where the route is.
34:11
You're given a map and the map has points on it.
34:13
There's no trail and you're given a bib number.
34:16
So say your bib number is 13.
34:17
On this map, you have to go find all these points before you come back to the checkpoint.
34:25
And at each point on the map is a book and you have to pull out the corresponding page with your bib number and bring it back to Laz after each loop to be able to go out and start again.
34:37
And I think there were like 6 years where no one finished, no one won.
34:41
Yeah, it's like 15 runners in 38 years. like a pain in the butt.
34:44
I'm not trying to learn how to read maps.
34:45
I just want to look at naked.
34:47
Like but by the way, like running to to Nick's point, running has definitely changed in public perception.
34:54
Like I just more and more now I'm like I used to think, oh okay, lifting like deadlifting to me.
34:59
I'm like, oh it's so primal, deadlifting.
35:03
Like you got to pick a car up off of your wife or off of your kid.
35:04
Like you got to get it up off of them in order to save their life.
35:08
And now I I add running to that where I'm like if you can't go run like super fast to go call for help when someone's in trouble, like that's super primal to me.
35:18
Like you got to pick the car up and then you got to go run 2 miles to get help from like the nearest aid station. Scott Galloway on.
35:26
Nick, Scott Galloway is just like big successful entrepreneur or whatever.
35:27
And he um he said something that was a was brilliant.
35:31
He's like a He's like a poet.
35:33
He's really good with words.
35:33
And he said um he goes, my fitness regime, I want to be able to kill and eat most everyone in a room or outrun them.
35:43
Uh and then I was like I like that. That's great. I love that.
35:47
That sounds very like a very practical way to to exercise. I enjoy that.
35:53
Have you seen Theo Von on Joe Rogan talking about uh who he would eat in a plane crash?
35:57
If you If you haven't seen it, it's like one of the funniest Theo Von clips I've ever seen.
36:00
Um let me All right, I'll ask one or two more.
36:04
Uh the So, someone asked, do you guys um do you guys religiously stick to your programming?
36:10
And do you ever create the programming yourself?
36:15
It really depends on for me like what I'm training for.
36:19
If I have a very specific goal then my training program is specialized to to to that specific goal.
36:26
So, like for my my marathon prep, working with Jeff Cunningham, like he would give me my workouts for the week, and I would hit those workouts to a T.
36:37
I wouldn't miss or skip anything.
36:39
I mean, there there's been times where Jeff has accidentally sent me my workouts with the wrong paces, and I'll look at them and be like, "Oh, [ __ ] this seems fast."
36:47
And I go out and hit them.
36:50
He's like, "What are you doing?"
36:50
I'm like, "You sent this over to me."
36:51
He's like, "Oh, that's a typo."
36:54
So, like if you if if you send the program when I'm in a a prep, I'm doing whatever you tell me to do.
37:01
But outside of that, I have a lot of flexibility.
37:04
Like today I woke up and I was thinking, "How does my body feel?
37:06
How far do I want to run?"
37:09
I went and ran ran 10 miles.
37:09
Sometimes in the middle of the run, like two to three miles in, I I decide how far I'm going to run based off of my feel.
37:17
That's called auto-regulation.
37:17
So, you adjust your training programming based off your recovery and how you're feeling and how well you slept and all those things.
37:25
So, a lot of my training now is flexible, but it's not as rigid because I don't have a specific competition goal at the moment. What about you, Sal?
37:36
I need someone else to write the programs for me, otherwise I don't take them seriously, and I need to pay for them, um I have found, because when I pay for something, I take it way more seriously.
37:44
So, my um my marathon training, I had no program.
37:49
I was just running with my neighbor, um Brian Mazza, who's also a I I know Nick knows him and also, um so like a fitness influencer and uh personality that was really into hybrid training as well.
37:59
So, I started running with him, had no program, and then uh I got connected on text with Nick, and I was like, "Nick, I want to run a sub-3-hour marathon.
38:07
What's a workout I should do?"
38:09
And Nick replied and was like, "Try doing this."
38:10
And it was I don't think I'd run over like 16 miles at the time, by the way.
38:16
And Nick replied and said, "22-mile run.
38:17
It was 6 miles easy to warm up and then it was four rounds of three at 6:30 with one at 7:10 float.
38:27
He was like, "If you can do that, you'll feel good about being able to run sub three."
38:31
And I had never done I mean, I had not come close to that.
38:34
But that weekend, I had the same thing as what you said with your trainer Nick where like I was like, "All right, I got to go do that, I guess."
38:39
And so I went out and hit that.
38:42
Um and then I started following Nick's marathon program as a result.
38:44
Um that got me through it. Wow.
38:47
Um I I do the same thing, by the way.
38:49
I got a a guy that does my programming here in Austin.
38:51
His name's Jesse at Central Athlete. And it's expensive.
38:54
I think I pay $400 a month.
38:57
Um and I only I I do everything that I'm told because I'm paying money for it.
39:02
And if I won't take it seriously if I'm doing it, or I wouldn't go my intensity would be lower.
39:07
I'd be like, "Dude, I can't do this."
39:09
It's like, "Well, Jesse told me I have to do it.
39:10
Therefore, I will do it."
39:13
Um all right, last question.
39:15
Do you get nutrition coaching, too, Sam? coaching. Yeah, I use MyBodyTutor.
39:17
Um it's basically a service.
39:20
When I was like really into it, I would call them for 5 minutes every single day.
39:23
And they would be like, "All right, what's the plan today?"
39:26
Where like you have like a quarterly plan.
39:29
You're like, "I want to lose weight, gain weight.
39:30
I don't want to eat this. I do want to eat this." Whatever.
39:33
And they're like, "All right, what's what do you what's your plan today in order to hit your goals?"
39:36
Um and you and they you would have to like show them and then they review your MyFitnessPal every night.
39:42
It's like, "All right, you're you're doing you're doing everything according to plan."
39:46
So kind of guilt guilts me into doing it. But it also teaches me.
39:49
Like Like I didn't know that you had to get a gram of protein per body pound or per pound of body weight.
39:57
Like I didn't know any of that [ __ ] And so they like educated me.
40:00
Um all right, let's track tracking nutrition can be super beneficial for people just getting into health, fitness.
40:06
It just teaches them about serving sizes and macronutrients and total calories.
40:10
Well, I started weighing my food after I saw Nick you did it on some of your videos.
40:16
You were like and I thought weighing your food was like cumbersome, but like I just saw you like just have a bowl on top of the scale and when you were pouring the chicken in there, you're like, I just need about half a pound and you just poured in there and like, oh, cool.
40:26
That was really simple and easy.
40:28
You just put it right to the bowl and put it in the microwave and it was like a very easy thing to track.
40:30
So, I started doing it after I saw your videos actually.
40:33
Yeah, I don't track my nutrition right now, but I still weigh my food just for like serving size allocation.
40:42
Yeah, and now I know but now I just buy like like if I buy red meat, I buy it by the pound and I know that a pound of red meat reduces to . 7 and I know what's in .
40:51
7 of uh, you know, ground beef or . 7 of chicken.
40:54
And so, yeah, that's how I do a lot of it now uh, for weighing. Last question. Um, and this is from me. I'm actually curious.
41:01
Who influences you guys and what sources do you turn to for like like for example, there's this guy um, what's the guy on uh, I think his name's Bio Layne on Instagram. What's his name? Layne Norton. Layne Norton. Layne Norton's great.
41:15
So, like I like he's like, you know, New York Times did an article where they're like, now everyone has their own fitness guru who they trust.
41:23
And so, like Huberman is like a guy for someone.
41:24
Nick, you're a guy for someone probably where I'm like, if they say this, I do what they say.
41:30
Who are your your gurus, your fitness guys that you trust for health and nutrition and what sources do you use?
41:38
Layne Norton is definitely one for me.
41:42
And what I like about Layne is like if anyone's ever saying something and it seems so ridiculous and bold and new and fresh, I will literally go over to Layne's platform and wait for him to do a response cuz he typically does.
41:57
I love his carnivore stuff and like the guy who says like vegetables are bad for you. Like that's great.
42:03
Yeah, Layne has like a really holistic science-based approach to health and nutrition.
42:09
He also has a really good app called Carbon that is great for people who want to track their nutrition and and reach your fitness goal.
42:19
Like fitness-wise, I follow Lane.
42:22
I listen to some Huberman stuff.
42:26
I'm typically just like I don't I don't have one person I'm I'm following for fitness and nutrition.
42:30
I'm kind of just like having a pulse and feeling what's out there and then if I hear about something, I'll go do my own research.
42:37
So, I'll read the actual articles and peer-reviewed literature to see what you use for that?
42:40
Have you heard of I've been using Perplexity for that.
42:42
It's been kind of cool for It's like a chat GPT for studies. Interesting. Perplexity?
42:50
Yeah, I have it bookmarked here. Perplexity.
42:51
And it's uh uh they do a bad job of explaining what it is, but it they basically review tons of different studies, so you don't have to read all of them.
43:00
And then and so you can ask you can ask it a question of like, is aspartame proven to give cancer?
43:06
And it'll say like, well, of all these studies, here's what it here's what they Here's the summary. I'll check that out.
43:11
Layne has one called reps. I also use examine. com. Same. Love them. Exa- examine. com is really good.
43:17
And then I'll just go to like to PubMed.
43:21
PubMed and just like read the the articles there.
43:25
From like fitness, that's where I'm like pulling a lot of my info.
43:30
Outside of fitness, um just like audiobooks.
43:33
Like whenever I'm running, I'm typically listening to an audiobook. And That's crazy to me.
43:39
That's insane to me that you do that. You can't do that? Dude, no.
43:43
Like A, I don't pay attention.
43:45
And B, like it Like usually what I like to do is uh I like when I go for a run, I know how many I like beat beat per minute songs you know, songs that are a certain beat per minute.
43:56
And so my stride will go to that that beat per minute, you know what I mean?
44:00
Which is typically like like around 80 beat or 85 beats per minute. I used to do that.
44:05
When I first started running, I would do that.
44:07
But yeah, I'll listen to an audiobook and like 10 miles, I forget I'm running for 10 miles.
44:13
Like I just I listened to an audiobook during the marathon.
44:15
I did the exact same thing. What?
44:17
I listened to uh The Martian, Andy Weir's uh the sci-fi Dude, you guys are so weird. That is so weird to me.
44:23
Dude, you know what book I I just finished up that like I can't recommend enough?
44:27
It's called Trust by Henry Cloud.
44:31
If you guys haven't read that yet or heard of it, it's I mean, maybe it's just hitting me at like the right time in my life, but it is a powerful good book. What is it?
44:41
It's all about like how to evaluate relationships and trust, how to regain or rebuild trust when you've been betrayed, what to look for in in in trusting someone.
44:53
A lot of the times we think that trust is someone who just like won't lie, steal, or cheat.
44:59
So like we'll hire people, we'll bring people onto our team who meet those requirements.
45:02
Oh, they don't lie, steal, or cheat. I can trust them.
45:06
Well, can we trust them in the capacity of the role that we're expecting them to perform?
45:11
Dude, this is serial killer [ __ ] that you could listen to a self-help book while you're like while you're like running a marathon. I think that's so weird.
45:19
Uh like I would read this book you went no headphones for the marathon, right, Nick? Yeah, yeah. I I did no headphones.
45:28
That's what ballers do, Sahil.
45:28
Like if if you Yeah, that is what ballers do.
45:31
Like everyone really will definitely give you [ __ ] Yeah, if you like go to a cross country practice or something and like you go run with headphones on, like the the hardcores will totally mock you.
45:39
But I do it anyway cuz I'm like this is fun for me. I'm doing what I want.
45:44
I'm not going to be hardcore.
45:45
Nick said at the beginning, by the way, which is like when you if you publicly state you're going to hit some sort of like goals, the running like the the running hardcores will definitely talk crap and troll you until you post proof that you actually did it, and then you kind of like have earned enough clout.
46:01
Like I sort of feel like everyone made fun of me for getting into running, and then I like posted some actual verifiable stats, and now you Yeah, now I'm like a solid amateur, and people can't really make fun of you anymore.
46:12
So, now you've like you've like earned the respect of the crew, like the cool kids in the in the cafeteria.
46:17
So, now like they can't come beat you up.
46:19
So, that's a real thing that actually happens, yeah.
46:22
What's your What's your answer to that?
46:24
Um what's my answer to uh where I go to? Yeah. And who influences you?
46:27
Who's like your your person?
46:31
I mean, I grew up um through my baseball training.
46:33
I was the first client of this guy named Eric Cressey, who has now become pretty famous.
46:37
Um he's the performance coach for the Yankees, but is now like the Major League Baseball strength guy, like trains Max Scherzer, Justin Verlander, all of like the who's who of baseball.
46:47
Dude, I feel like a baseball guy is the worst person to get fitness advice from.
46:51
That's like the fattest sport there is.
46:54
No, he was like the um he was the first guy to like really bring strength and performance training to baseball. So, it was that.
47:00
It was like the fat guys or the steroid era guys who were just meatheads, and he brought like true performance training to the sport, which now is like the real driver of why every guy throws 100 miles an hour.
47:09
Like guys are hitting absolute tanks all the time.
47:13
Like he was really the pioneer of that.
47:15
I mean, he's been on like Tim Ferriss's podcast.
47:17
He's really really big time and a close friend, incredible.
47:19
Uh and then there's this guy Ben Bruno, who is like a celebrity trainer.
47:23
Um pretty big Instagram presence, and he's more of the like stuff for regular people to actually implement in their life um training.
47:31
And um I I just love that stuff cuz it's kind of a cool blend of the like more extreme things that I like doing with the actionable stuff that people can actually take as advice.
47:43
Yeah, Ben Bruno, he's got like the uh like the everyday ripped guy vibe.
47:48
He He's super super strong functionally um and trains like insane legit celebrities out of like a 150 square foot gym in his garage.
48:00
him with Justin Timberlake.
48:00
Yeah, Timberlake is like one of his one of his good friends.
48:03
Rolls up there and trains with him. He's He's incredible.
48:04
Um and then on diet stuff, there's this guy um Zach, I think Rousselot is how you pronounce his last name.
48:11
He's like the flexible dieting lifestyle is his Instagram handle and he just posts like insane macro recipes basically.
48:17
Um things that are like delicious but don't completely screw up your diet.
48:22
And I just I nerd out on that kind of stuff.
48:25
He's He's Austin, Texas based. Yeah, he's Austin based. Yeah.
48:29
Dude, Nick, do you you probably know like half these guys, I would bet. I know I know Zach. I know Zach personally.
48:35
You know who else is really good for a general health information health and fitness information for people just getting started is Jordan Syatt. Jordan Yeah. Jordan Syatt.
48:45
So Jordan was an intern at Eric Cressey's gym.
48:47
Well, so he Jordan is my year in high school.
48:49
He went to Lincoln-Sudbury High School, which was like our rival high school.
48:51
And he was an intern at Cressey's gym when I was training there.
48:55
So I've known Jordan since we were like we were kids.
48:59
Yeah, he's he's he's got good stuff.
48:59
By the way, he was Gary V's trainer. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
49:04
I saw I just went to this guy, the flexible dieting lifestyle and I'm I'm like typing all this in as you guys are talking and I'll I'll do a little flex.
49:11
I go to follow this guy and it says, "Follow back." Oh, yeah. That's awesome. Zach is awesome.
49:19
The protein ice cream recipes are like the best thing in the world.
49:23
Yeah, he This is a great Instagram. This guy kills it.
49:25
Do you have a creamy at home? Ninja Creami? I do. Oh, it's the best.
49:30
One of our best purchases, my wife and I. Like every Saturday.
49:33
The Ninja Creami, you can make like protein ice cream with it.
49:39
They were like they got popular based off of TikTok early on and they like were sold out for months.
49:45
And then they finally came back on the market and we purchased one.
49:48
Well, I used to do that So what I do with your So BPN So I like to do uh a scent protein, which water and then I use BPN to like eat.
49:56
And so, like for example, I'll mix it with some type of liquid and I'll microwave BPN and it's almost like I'm eating like um I don't I don't know.
50:05
I mean, it's like a dessert.
50:06
Cuz you gave me the Key Lime Pie one and then you gave me a birthday cake one and I think the birthday cake one is discontinued.
50:11
And I would just we would microwave it and just eat it and it was like a a soufflé or something.
50:17
Now, I guess I'll use BPN for this creamy.
50:19
Sam, I will change your life right now.
50:22
Two cups of whole milk, like Fairlife whole milk, a scoop of BPN vanilla, uh maybe like two tiny little packets of stevia, and some uh sugar-free vanilla pudding mix.
50:36
Freeze it overnight, put it into the Ninja Creami, and it is literally identical to like a vanilla McDonald's McFlurry. Really? out insane.
50:44
And then you can put a couple like Oreo Thins in there and get like a legit McDonald's McFlurry that has like 40 g of protein and is great for you. Shoot, this is awesome.
50:53
I'm like literally writing all this down and I'm I just added the Creami to my cart.
50:58
It will change your life. I'm not joking. It is it is pretty wild.
51:00
I I did it my first time and like I only mixed it once and it came out I was like, "What's this?" So, I did it twice.
51:07
Completely different thing.
51:07
The after like one more mix.
51:11
Light ice cream setting once, open it up, pour like a tiny uh like a tablespoon of whole milk in, and then blend it on light ice cream again and it makes the perfect consistency.
51:20
All right, I literally just bought it off Amazon, the Creami.
51:23
And now uh I only have uh I got to get uh BPN vanilla now cuz I only did chocolate, birthday cake, and Key Lime Pie.
51:30
Um I want to hear about this 2:39 though.
51:32
I'm going to nerd out on this.
51:34
Yeah, so Nick, you're trying to run 2:39 now for the marathon, right? No, I just did. So, You just did?
51:40
at CIM, which is the California International Marathon. That was December 3rd. I ran a 2:39:20.
51:49
And when I went into that prep, I was shooting for a sub 2:45.
51:53
And and sub 2:45 is about a 6:15 minute per mile pace.
51:58
Ended up doing 6:05 minute per mile pace for all 26. 2 of those miles.
52:04
Can you just walk through your progression on the marathon stuff?
52:05
Cuz I feel like I've seen a video.
52:06
So, I I mean, I only I started running in March, and someone mentioned your name as soon as I started getting into running as like the person that was pioneering this whole idea of like hybrid athlete, whatever.
52:20
It's kind of become like an in-vogue thing now, but basically a guy that can be both jacked and fit in cardio things.
52:25
Not CrossFit, like actual, you know, strength-related stuff and then and then running.
52:29
And I remember seeing a video of you like a 4-hour marathon, maybe.
52:36
Um and your progression from that to running maybe sub-3 for the first time.
52:41
Can you just walk through like what your progression has been from start to finish on the different marathons you've done? Yeah.
52:45
Well, first off, when when you and I first started talking, and you said you wanted to do a a sub-3 for your first marathon, I thought he was crazy when he said that. Dude, so did I.
52:53
I was like, "Man, that's that's I think I even told you like, "That's a bold move." But you did it.
52:59
So, congratulations on that.
53:02
Um But yeah, my my my marathon progression.
53:06
So, my first marathon was in 2018.
53:09
It was about a year after I got out of the military.
53:11
And what's funny is the day I got out of the military, I said I would never run a day in my life again.
53:17
And about a year later, was running my first marathon, and here we are like thousands of miles later.
53:23
But 2018 Austin Marathon, I ran a 3:57, which was just an absolute dumpster fire.
53:30
But you weighed like 225, right? I was like 225.
53:33
I didn't have a a training program.
53:35
I was a bodybuilder, like I was just I just wanted to be as big and yolked as possible.
53:43
Ran this marathon after mile 16, I hit the wall.
53:45
It was just all downhill from there.
53:50
A year later, I signed up for the Austin Marathon again, same training program, which was lack thereof, and I ran a 4-hour 15-minute marathon.
53:58
So, I I ran 18 minutes slower than the previous year.
54:03
And then after that, I signed up for my first Ironman, trained for an Ironman, did Ironman Florida, actually started to learn what it takes to build endurance, and get better at endurance events and racing.
54:16
You broke 12 hours in that one?
54:17
Yeah, I did my Iron Ironman Florida in 11:28.
54:22
But, I ran the marathon in 4 hours and 4 minutes.
54:26
So, the reason that was so kind of significant was I looked back at my previous two marathons.
54:32
I was like, "Man, after I just swam and biked and then ran, I was able to run a pretty decent marathon."
54:41
So, I told myself I want to run sub three, and that was the goal.
54:45
And I I I posted this online.
54:45
I said, "I'm doing a sub 3-hour marathon."
54:49
And the internet trolls and activity just blew up.
54:51
I mean, there were forums on Let's Run, there were forums on on on Reddit.
54:58
Everyone was like, "This guy will not run a sub 3-hour marathon."
55:01
So, then I signed up for the Austin Marathon again.
55:05
I I followed a training program.
55:05
It was a better prep, but even in my head, I was like, "I'm not in sub three shape."
55:12
But, at the starting line, I told myself that you can mentally outwill anything.
55:15
I was like, "If I just like I can mentally overcome the physical weakness that I have to run the sub 3-hour marathon." And what's sub three?
55:24
Is sub three 6:50 per mile?
55:26
I think 6:51 is like 2:59:59.
55:30
Like, if you sneak in under 1 second.
55:32
And the only reason I know that is because of exactly what Nick said about mine, that everyone was like, "Dude, there's no way."
55:37
So, I knew in my mind like I just have to keep this under 6:51 my watch pace and then I'm going to be fine.
55:42
See, I like banking time.
55:42
So, I always like I like saving time so at the end if I need it I I have it.
55:48
Which is the opposite of what like real runners tell you to do.
55:52
I did the same thing, by the way.
55:53
Like I went out way too fast and then was just like hanging on for dear life doing the math in my head of like, "Okay, if I run like a 10-minute mile here, I'm still going to make it.
56:02
I'm still going Because there's the like they call it the wall.
56:05
The wall is basically, I think it's like when you burn 1,800 or 2,200 calories or something like that and you start going into What's it called where you like start using muscle as energy, I believe, or instead of carb Yeah, yeah, yeah.
56:17
And and that's when that wall is where you're like, "I can't go any further."
56:19
Usually that's in like mile 20, right?
56:22
Yeah, ranges Yeah, based on the individual of like your conditioning, your experience, glycogen stores, how how fast you burn through your body's energy.
56:32
So, I went out at that Austin Marathon with a goal of running sub three. I went out way too fast.
56:39
And within the first six miles, I knew I wasn't going to do sub three.
56:41
Like I In the first six miles, I was done for.
56:43
And the Austin Marathon is not flat. It's it's hills.
56:46
It's It's like a horrible PR course.
56:48
No one PRs that I know of at the Austin Marathon.
56:54
So, then the remainder of that race I was just holding on. Ended up running 3:24.
56:57
So, 24 minutes over sub three.
57:02
Everyone on the internet that doubted me loved it.
57:05
And I went into another training block immediately after that race was done.
57:10
I actually did a real prep this time.
57:12
Had a really solid coach, Jeff Cunningham.
57:15
And I ended up running a marathon year later in 2 hours 56 minutes 27 seconds.
57:22
So, it was the first time I went sub three.
57:25
Then a year later, I did the Buffalo New York Marathon in 2:48.
57:30
And then just recently, December 3rd, 2023, I ran a 2:39:20, which is a 6:05 per mile pace. What weight were you? I was 195 lb. Oh my god.
57:46
That's ridiculous at 195.
57:46
And it was ridiculous at any at any body weight, but it was insane at 195.
57:50
Were you still squatting and benching while you're I mean, were you still strong?
57:56
I I I took a lot of time off strength training during that prep.
58:01
So, for like 13 weeks leading up to that race, I was still lifting here and there, but I wasn't lifting legs heavy.
58:10
I wasn't lifting even upper body really heavy.
58:12
I was just getting some movement in just to maintain and feel good, but the priority was was running.
58:18
Because what a lot of runners don't realize is like so, 2:39, that's that's impressive. That's very impressive.
58:25
But, it's more impressive that you're doing it at your body weight.
58:28
That is That is That is like out of this world.
58:30
I I got dinner one time recently with this guy named Josh Kerr.
58:34
If you guys know who Josh Kerr is, unless you're running a nerd, you don't know who he is, but he won the world he won the world championships recently in the 1500 meter. He's like a 3:45 miler.
58:42
So, one of the fastest milers ever, whatever.
58:46
But, he's pretty big for a miler.
58:46
For a normal human being, you think he's skinny, but for a miler, he's big.
58:49
And I started talking to him and I was like, "You're pretty big. How'd you do this?"
58:54
He goes, "Man, he's from Scotland, I think."
58:56
He goes, "When I I came to America when I was 17 to go to college, and I was training for the mile, and I but I wasn't used to having fast food and like having restaurants open 24 hours a day.
59:06
And so, I got fat like my first semester there, and I weighed 200 lb, and I broke the mile when I was 17 or 18 that year when I weighed 200 lb."
59:15
He goes, "I think I own the world record for the fattest sub-4 mile."
59:19
And like, 200 lb for like just a guy who's 6 ft, that's not huge.
59:22
But, to be able to run that time or the time even that you're running or even Sahil, you're pretty big, too.
59:28
For running those times with that weight, that's just like inconceivable.
59:32
Not only because it's hard, but what's inconceivable is that you're not getting hurt running 50 to 80 miles a week leading up to it.
59:38
That's what's like in my mind the most impressive part here.
59:43
Yeah, I mean, when I first started running, I I had a lot of injuries.
59:46
Just because my my body mechanics weren't super efficient.
59:52
So, I've had knee injuries, uh quads, ankles, shins, calves, like everything.
1:00:01
But, now as I've I've run longer with more miles, my body has become pretty efficient at form and function, and I rarely get injured anymore unless I do like a an ultra marathon.
1:00:15
I had two, um you know, from my training, I just had two like random life lesson type things from the running that I'm curious, Nick, if you've experienced these.
1:00:24
One was before my marathon, I was trying to figure out like how to just like mentally take on um the goal of running sub three for it, and how to think about like if I'm 6 miles into the race and I realize I'm not going to hit it, how to make sure I still finish the race and don't just like mentally completely lose it.
1:00:41
And this marathoner told me that for every single race or anything that you're going after, you want to have basically three goals.
1:00:51
He was like, you have your A goal, which is the main thing you're trying to hit, and then you have a B goal, which is like just slightly worse, and then you have a C goal, which is just like finish the damn race.
1:01:00
And you can always like you lock in on your A goal from the start, but if you start falling off that and realize you're not going to hit it, you need something to fall back on that keeps you motivated when you're in it.
1:01:10
And so, you have your B goal, and then the C goal is just get to the finish line.
1:01:13
And I have taken that and like run with it in every area of life now.
1:01:15
Like no matter what it is, if you have a fitness goal, like a daily fitness goal, you want to, you know, run every day and work out every day.
1:01:24
It's good to have that A goal, but the reality is that like [ __ ] hits the fan sometimes.
1:01:28
Like your kid is up all night or, you know, like you have a problem at home or something at work pops up.
1:01:31
And so having that idea of like what is the B goal, maybe it's a slightly lower version, and then the C goal is like I'm just going to go for a walk and get 15 minutes of movement in.
1:01:40
That has helped me so much in terms of just like navigating the vagaries of life that inevitably hit when you know you're not going to have your perfect day every single day.
1:01:50
Yeah, I mean it's like the mindset of like all or nothing.
1:01:53
It's like you see so many people at every marathon, every race.
1:01:59
It's very applicable to anything else in life, but like you see these elite runners go out and as soon as they fall off of pace, they drop out.
1:02:06
They just fall to the side.
1:02:09
And I was actually talking to Ken Rideout a few weeks ago when he was on uh my podcast.
1:02:14
And now he lives right down the road from me here in in Nashville.
1:02:18
But he was telling me when he did Kona Ironman years and years and years ago, during the race he realized he wasn't going to hit the time he wanted.
1:02:27
So he just dropped out of the race.
1:02:30
And he I mean him and his family traveled to Hawaii for this race.
1:02:32
So there's a lot of time, effort, energy, money going into it.
1:02:36
He dropped out of the race and he said it was like his greatest regret ever.
1:02:42
So he he forced himself to go back the next year for for redemption, just to prove to himself that he could do it.
1:02:49
But I think the the feelings, the emotions, and just everything that's created when you quit something and drop out cuz you weren't on pace for that A goal, I mean that's like self-destruction.
1:03:00
That hurts so much more than not actually finishing the race.
1:03:03
The other thing that's funny to me about uh all runners that I feel like they've gone through, you said it like with your first marathon or when you left the military, you were like I'm never going to run again. I'm done with this.
1:03:12
It's like uh it's like women after they have um after they have babies, there's like that chemical that gets released that makes them forget how much it hurts going through childbirth.
1:03:21
I think the same thing happens with running.
1:03:23
It just is like a little more delayed.
1:03:25
Like when I finished my marathon, I was like, "Fuck this.
1:03:28
I'm never running another marathon."
1:03:30
And I like that was the most painful thing I'd ever experienced.
1:03:31
Like the last 6 miles, I wouldn't wish that on my worst damn enemy in the world.
1:03:34
And then like 2 weeks later, I'm like, "Hmm, like which one should I sign up for next year? Like I got to go 2:49. I got to do this." Yeah, man.
1:03:44
It's I'm the same way with ultras.
1:03:45
Like I finish an ultra and I'm out for 2 weeks. I can't walk.
1:03:47
My like toenails are falling off. And I talk to my wife.
1:03:51
I'm like, "This is This was stupid. Why did I do this? I'm useless.
1:03:54
I can't help out at home."
1:03:57
And then I find myself signing up for another ultra shortly after.
1:04:00
Dude, your ultra documentary was so good.
1:04:02
I I remember I like had I subscribed for like the premiere.
1:04:05
So, I was like sitting at my TV waiting for it to come out.
1:04:08
It was an hour long about Leadville, I think, right? Yeah. Uh it was so good.
1:04:12
I remember I was like one of the first ones.
1:04:14
I was like, "All right, it's coming up at this time, Sarah.
1:04:16
Let's sit down and watch it."
1:04:16
And what's crazy about you is like there's this whole thing where these people who want to talk in clichés are like every media or every company should be a media company, yada yada yada.
1:04:28
And the thing is they mostly suck at it.
1:04:30
You're actually one of the few guys that has like your supplements, they meet I don't know what the grade is, but you know I know I've talked to you and I've talked to other people about it and your competitors will be like, "Yeah, BPM, they they meet this particular grade.
1:04:42
They are of high quality."
1:04:45
But you also you nailed that, the supplement thing, but then you also are nailing the media thing.
1:04:48
And no one else or very few other people are doing that where they're you're actually really nailing it.
1:04:54
It's almost you could argue that your media is even better than the supplements because supplements like I don't know how the industry works, but it seems like yeah, they're like these five are great, but your media is awesome. I appreciate that.
1:05:04
You had like it looked like you had three or four guys following you around the whole time. Your wife is there.
1:05:09
I feel like I know her because of of the videos and then she was following you on Instagram or and talking about your splits and these guys have these beautiful cameras.
1:05:19
It was just like it was a great documentary.
1:05:21
How many views did that have?
1:05:23
The Leadville doc now has I think 1. 5 million. It was so good, man. It was so good.
1:05:28
Are you Did you come up with that storyline or do you just hire a good a good team?
1:05:36
That's my creative director Jordan in-house here. Where's he from?
1:05:40
Jordan is from Ohio geographically but he was just when I met him, he was employee number four at BPN and he was filming for another YouTuber when I met him as a freelancer and I was looking for a videographer at the time because this was 2019.
1:06:00
At the time I was still filming editing all my own videos. That's crazy.
1:06:01
That's a [ __ ] ton of work.
1:06:03
I mean all I did all literally all I did was work.
1:06:09
And 2019 was the the first time I was able to bring someone on on but I was looking for like over a year for the right person.
1:06:17
I would fly people down, they would stay with me and meet them, we'd film something.
1:06:22
It just didn't feel right so I didn't pursue it.
1:06:23
Met Jordan it felt right.
1:06:26
He moved down, creative director.
1:06:31
He led my content for a while then he went and led BPN's content for a while and now he's back working on directly on my content again.
1:06:39
But he came up with the storyline the the whole production, the scouting, the editing process.
1:06:46
Obviously we had a lot of guys on the team supporting that editing and and filming and and production but Jordan led that that project.
1:06:54
We just launched the last man standing ultra that he led and created with Ian Rodriguez here on my team and then we posted the CIM race video Monday.
1:07:07
But yeah, Jordan is a super talented creative.
1:07:09
What's your How much are you spending per year on a team for content?
1:07:13
And are you able to Are you tracking the ROI, or is this just like a thing where you're like, "I'm I'm pretty sure it's working."
1:07:19
It's a I'm pretty sure it's working.
1:07:22
I mean, our our media team is I mean, with video Just videographers, photographers, we have 10.
1:07:34
But, then we have our social team and a lot of my business decisions as like as an entrepreneur, one thing I've learned and I think we were talking about this when when you were on my podcast a few months ago is that I make a lot of my decisions and I've made a lot of my decisions in business based off of intuition and gut feeling.
1:07:56
I never looked at the P&L, I never looked at the balance sheet.
1:07:59
If I had this feeling that it was working and I could feel momentum and I had a pulse on it, I was just like, "Keep Keep spending, keep hiring."
1:08:09
Then, finally, at one point I I hired operators, a CFO, a CEO, and they're like, "Hey, we got to put some some guardrails around this."
1:08:17
But, like, all of my decisions in business have been intuition, gut.
1:08:21
If it feels right, I'm going to do it.
1:08:23
I have a I have a feeling there's going to be an ROI.
1:08:24
I might not be able to measure it, but I can subjectively tell if it's going to work or is working. Is it separate at all?
1:08:34
Like, the Nick Bare Fitness platform and your personal social media, is that separate from BPN as like a functional entity?
1:08:40
Or are the people, like, the videographers, the 10 people, is that all under BPN?
1:08:46
Yeah, the whole process has has changed significantly over the last couple years.
1:08:52
So, originally, it was all one team.
1:08:55
And then, at one point, we separated out where I have now have the the Bare Fitness business and then the Bare Performance Nutrition business.
1:09:05
So, they were like two separate teams.
1:09:07
And the Nick Bare Fitness business is your app. Right?
1:09:10
Your app and your channel.
1:09:10
Yeah, it's like my my content, my IP.
1:09:16
Uh my my channel, my training app, stuff like that.
1:09:21
I used to do brand deals.
1:09:21
I don't do any brand deals anymore.
1:09:24
Dude, Hoka should have been paying you like seven figures a year.
1:09:26
I bought Hokas because of you cuz I saw I was like, "Oh, big guy wears Hokas. Hoka is the thing."
1:09:31
The amount of the amount of Hoka Rincons I sold when I first started running has to be absolutely ridiculous.
1:09:38
So, just talking about the separation, we separated out Nick Bare Fitness team and BPN team for a while.
1:09:47
Really, it it made no sense of what we were doing and why we were doing it.
1:09:51
Just I just thought it was the professional move to take in that next step and stage of business.
1:09:57
Now, we've brought it all back into one entity.
1:10:02
I still have the Nick Bare Fitness business, but everyone that is working on media is on BPN payroll, is a BPN team member, and all the content we're creating is in the hope of building the supplement business.
1:10:16
Now, the teams are separated working on different projects.
1:10:18
Like, I have my creative director Jordan who's leading my content, Ian who's working on my content, Everett who's a podcast producer, and then we have videographers, creatives that are working on just BPN stuff, but there's definitely crossover and the lines are blurrier blurrier than they used to be.
1:10:37
Do you think that dings your valuation if you ever wanted to sell the company because it's so tied onto you?
1:10:44
I don't know if it it dings the valuation, but I definitely think that a process and a sale would come with a whole lot of structure, a lot of IP IP negotiations and possibly issues.
1:11:00
Um I feel like it's less than you think, actually.
1:11:03
I um I was always impressed.
1:11:05
So, I had actually taken BPN supplements before knowing you and had no idea who you were or that you were involved.
1:11:10
They had just like popped up as one of the supplements I was taking.
1:11:15
That's That's not the bulk you think.
1:11:15
Do you think Sahil that's the bulk of customers?
1:11:18
Honestly, I have no idea.
1:11:18
I just remember like back in my private equity days, we looked at um Onnit.
1:11:20
Do you remember that brand?
1:11:23
I don't know if it's still around.
1:11:25
Onnit was selling and it was like Yeah, they had a huge exit.
1:11:27
Well, it was so tied to Joe Rogan and what was his name?
1:11:29
Aubrey um yeah, Aubrey Marcus.
1:11:32
And that was like when we were looking at it, private equity guys, like that's their biggest fear is like, oh, how involved were these two guys?
1:11:39
Like is it a key man risk? All this stuff.
1:11:40
And then ultimately, they ended up getting to an amazing exit with somebody.
1:11:44
And you know, they put guardrails around it.
1:11:45
They get like key man insurance or whatever it is.
1:11:47
Um but I I would I I mean, I'd be interested to find out actually like run a survey of your customers.
1:11:54
Like what proportion actually end up coming through you and your media versus now just like the flywheel is spinning, SEO is there, um and the business kind of just, you know, is self-propagating.
1:12:05
been the fear with my businesses, which is I don't want to make it me.
1:12:07
I want to make it its own thing.
1:12:09
But me or Nick or Sahil, like that gets initial base, but it's like at what point do you When do you make the transition?
1:12:18
And it's a That's a challenging There's a I don't know the answer to that question and I'm afraid of the repercussions of making the wrong the making the wrong choice, you know what I mean?
1:12:29
Yeah, that that's been a topic of discussion for the last couple years with us.
1:12:33
And trying to figure out how to navigate that.
1:12:36
And for a while I kept leading into, okay, well, let's separate in the hopes of building BPN away from myself so that it's separate and distinct and can stand on its own.
1:12:49
But what I I found by doing that is the separation created this loss of vision and brand.
1:13:01
So, I've kind of just like flipped my whole thought process on that and said screw whatever happens in the future and I'm going to lean fully back in and I don't care really how it affects valuation or the end process anymore.
1:13:14
I'm just going to build a brand that I'm really proud of and the way I want to build it and whatever happens happens.
1:13:19
And if someone comes knocking on my door in the next couple years and says like, "Hey, we love what you're doing."
1:13:23
let's talk, but if you don't like it, you know, I just want to make sure I'm enjoying the process and not building a business based off of KPIs and milestones.
1:13:31
And I bet you're I mean, I have I have no idea.
1:13:34
I've never seen you comment on this, but I would I would have to assume the app that you have how much do you charge?
1:13:40
50 bucks a month or something? Uh it's $19. 99 a month.
1:13:45
So, I would have to imagine that's doing well, too, right?
1:13:50
I mean, I I make much more money outside of BPN than I make personally with BPN.
1:13:56
Yeah, I mean, I I think it's killing it.
1:13:58
Style, have you ever thought about doing it?
1:13:59
Yeah, I mean, that type of business model is incredible, right?
1:14:01
It's just like the ultimate scalability and you know, as your personal brand like it just for you as you think about reinvesting cash flows into your brand building, it just makes it it makes it so much more dynamic because you can run all of your media stuff at break even if you want to.
1:14:19
Like you can just reinvest all the cash that you're generating from YouTube ads, from the app, from any of those things into creating better and better content and create this massive flywheel and just count on BPN as the like long-term upside bet.
1:14:30
Yeah, but if I had a bet, I I bet you Nick, if I had a bet, Nick has probably been even though his net worth has skyrocketed.
1:14:37
I if I had a bet, you'd you've lived relatively poor compared to the net worth that you've created, cash flow poor.
1:14:44
And now you probably taste this and you're like okay, finally I can afford like uh to live like I want to live as opposed to just living on $80,000 a year.
1:14:57
Yeah, I mean for the first I I I didn't take any money out of the business for the first 5 years.
1:15:05
What do you get like just like a like a army or you get like a military stipend or something?
1:15:08
Yes, it worked it worked well because I started the business 2012.
1:15:14
2017 is the year I transitioned out of the army.
1:15:17
So I actually had to start paying myself then.
1:15:19
Me and my brother who moved down from Pennsylvania to help us build the business.
1:15:24
We signed our first warehouse lease that year.
1:15:26
It was the first year we hit seven figures in revenue.
1:15:30
And it was also like the most challenging year of my entire life because I didn't know anything about financing inventory.
1:15:36
I didn't know anything about leveraging debt.
1:15:38
I didn't know anything about taking out business loans or utilizing lines of credit.
1:15:44
Cash flow is an absolute nightmare.
1:15:46
The only money I thought I had to spend was the money that was in the bank account.
1:15:49
We had no terms with manufacturers.
1:15:51
Like 2017 was arguably the the worst and hardest year of my life, but also the best year of my life that if I could go relive any year right now, it'd be that year. That's insane.
1:16:05
That's one thing by the way like just that the time frame on all of this.
1:16:07
I feel like people don't appreciate time as a lever for growth on anything as much as they should and actually like people in fitness and athletes understand it better because they understand that like growing slowly is the game and just getting better slowly.
1:16:23
Like when I look at your YouTube channel and go to most popular videos a bunch of these videos like you've been at this for years and years.
1:16:28
There's like six-year-old video, four-year-old video, three-year-old video, like eight-year-old video, the 10,000 calorie cheat day challenge.
1:16:36
Like some of this stuff you've just been at it and I know you just said it. You were editing these.
1:16:41
Like you were actually on the ground spending the like 100-hour weeks doing this stuff for a long, long time.
1:16:47
It wasn't like you all of a sudden popped up and had this unbelievable, you know, production quality that you have today.
1:16:51
So, I I also just think like appreciating time as a lever for growth on these fronts is incredible.
1:16:59
That is one one thing that's been uh powerful skill for myself over this last decade plus is just the consistency at which I've just kept doing the thing.
1:17:12
But even the one thing Sam and I talked about when he was on my podcast, I think you were you were going to do like a speech and you you were back in like the green room before going out to the speech and you're talking to all these high-worth individuals who are super powerful and they're all sitting there super insecure and scared and nervous and like Yeah.
1:17:30
They're like, "Holy [ __ ] these people aren't any more secure, confident, or better than me."
1:17:37
And I think once you realize that, that I have all the skills that I need to take whatever is I I want to take to the top, I just have to apply it.
1:17:46
Because I used to think and I went through this phase where I was like, "Okay, I'll get this business I'll get this thing to this this level, but at some point I'm not going to be smart enough.
1:17:53
So, I'm going to have to outsource people to come in and and take it from where I build it to where it needs or can go."
1:18:02
And sometimes you do that, but you don't have to and I've realized that there's no one smarter than me that's going to take this business to the level it needs to go.
1:18:10
I just have to be super consistent at this approach for a long period of time and it's going to pay off in dividends. But you did hire a CEO.
1:18:18
I think what are you a year into that? A little over a year. Yep. How's that? It's been great.
1:18:24
I mean, the the main reason I wanted to step out of the CEO role and I I wasn't actively looking to hire a CEO, but Kat came into the business first as kind of just an advisor.
1:18:41
And then she joined as the chief revenue officer leaning into more operations.
1:18:48
And then we just had a conversation one day.
1:18:49
I was like, "Hey, would you ever want to be CEO?
1:18:52
Cuz I really just want to like focus on creating content and brand building."
1:18:56
And she was like, "Yeah, if you want me to be CEO, I'll be CEO."
1:18:58
So we made the switch because the business got to a point and a size where I wasn't spending my time on the things that I was passionate about anymore.
1:19:07
I was spending my time on like people management and lawsuits and retail and finances and P&L and balance sheets.
1:19:19
And I was like, "This is all like super critical important stuff, but I don't love it.
1:19:23
I want to focus on what I love, and that's creating content, that's building brand, that's getting people jacked up, that's talking about the products, that's working on new product innovation."
1:19:34
And that's why I wanted to make that change.
1:19:37
Which has been like much harder than I thought it would be.
1:19:41
And I'm only now a year in of that transition really finding my lane.
1:19:47
But this last year for me has been an interesting one. Dude, and it's hard. So I I have a CEO, too.
1:19:52
We'll be at 1 year in a couple months.
1:19:57
And it's hard because you want to be a good I don't know what it's called, a good partner with your CEO, where you want them to make mistakes, you want them to you know, put their flavor and stuff cuz you got to let a CEO do that.
1:20:07
But then at the same time you're like, "But I already did all this and I can tell you what the outcome of this is going to be or uh you know, it's just like it's really it's a it's a hard it's like getting married where you and but not living together right away.
1:20:24
And so you get married and then you move in and you're like, "Oh, you're [ __ ] quit leaving the cap off the toothpaste."
1:20:29
It's like, "Well, no, you can't like [ __ ] about little stuff.
1:20:31
You got to let them do what they want to do. You know what I mean? It's like kind of weird.
1:20:34
It's like a It's like a weird There's It's a weird thing, but you have to learn how to like manage each other, and it's and it is a challenge.
1:20:42
But, when it works, it's It's It's the best.
1:20:44
At any point, do you feel the need to jump back into the CEO role?
1:20:50
Well, in my When I get pissed off, I'll be like, I got to do this.
1:20:53
And then, I'll get like end of week or end of month updates, and I'm like, oh my god, Jordan is so much better at me than all of these things.
1:21:00
And I And And also, like, I would have done this different, this different, this different.
1:21:05
And those three things, I probably would have been wrong about.
1:21:07
So, like, the the name of the game isn't being right 100% of the time.
1:21:12
The name of the game is being right for the right things most of the time.
1:21:15
And I just had to like kind of like have empathy and put myself in his shoes, and that helped a lot.
1:21:20
But, uh no, like, when I On a bad day, when I get pissed off, I'm like, I should do this.
1:21:26
And then, 99% of the time, I'm like, you are more talented than I am at so many things. I cannot do this.
1:21:33
Yeah, I think sometimes, too, when you're when you're far removed from the position for an extended period of time, you forget all the bad things you have to used to deal with. Yeah. only remember the good.
1:21:45
And like, man, I kind of miss this.
1:21:45
And then, you get exposed to all the the things the bad things that you don't miss. too much. Now, you got it. You run with it.
1:21:50
It also kind of I Just before you jump forward from that, Sam, it also differs greatly between like a true business operations endeavor and a creative endeavor.
1:22:03
Like, you couldn't step away and truly have a CEO just like running your content apparatus, because it would lose it would lose the like the Nick soul that is in it that's in every single piece of content that exists.
1:22:15
You can like build your team around it, but you actually being in that creatively, um I think it's so key.
1:22:21
There was this um I think it like it was Jerry Seinfeld um did a interview with I think it was like the Harvard Business Review, and they uh they asked him about the fact that him and Larry David basically like wrote every episode of Seinfeld, and after 9 years they had basically burned out, and so the show just had to end because they had burned out on doing it.
1:22:40
And the Harvard Business Review was like, "Could you have hired McKinsey uh to come in and like help you find a better model and design something?"
1:22:47
And Jerry Seinfeld said, "Who's McKinsey?"
1:22:48
And they said, "It's a consulting firm."
1:22:50
And Seinfeld responded, uh "Are they funny?"
1:22:55
And Yeah, and basically his point was, "You don't like I don't need them if they're not funny, because the efficient way of doing the creative thing is actually the wrong way."
1:23:03
And what he said is the right way is the hard way.
1:23:05
The show was successful because they did it the hard way.
1:23:08
They micromanaged every single detail of the creative process, and they really had their soul in it.
1:23:12
And so I think that like your creative success and what has allowed all your businesses to thrive are also fundamentally tied to the fact that you have your soul in every single piece of content that you guys are putting together.
1:23:25
Yeah, I I agree with that.
1:23:25
I think sometimes entrepreneurship and building a business and and founding a company from the outside looking in, like people make it seem easy.
1:23:38
So, it's romanticized, and everyone's like, "Oh, I could start a business. I could do it."
1:23:42
And then you finally do it, and like you have this passion around everything you're building, but then it gets hard.
1:23:47
And then it gets challenging, and then it grows, and then you know, your passions are sidelined for the priorities other of the for other parts of the business, but it's just maintaining that consistent work ethic even when you're working on things that you truly weren't passionate about in the beginning, but you know it drives business and leads you to an ultimate end goal.
1:24:11
Well, guys, uh I appreciate you coming on.
1:24:13
Uh it was a little impromptu, but this is fun.
1:24:16
I just like hanging out with you guys and and learning.
1:24:17
Um, Nick, uh Sahil, I'm close to Sahil, so I don't have to this to him, but Nick, I've uh I've up to you for a while now and I appreciate you doing this.
1:24:26
Sahil, I appreciate you doing this, too. This is awesome. Thanks, guys.
1:24:30
Appreciate the opportunity.
1:24:32
All right, that's the pod.