NBA Star Chris Paul ON: How To Build Resilience & Overcome Societal Pressures — searchlore

NBA Star Chris Paul ON: How To Build Resilience & Overcome Societal Pressures

Jay Shetty Podcast

Published Jun 19, 2023

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0:00

People always going to say something.

0:01

Always, they're going to try to have some type of narrative, but as long as you know what's real, I think that's what can help you keep your sanity.

0:08

The best-selling author and host The number one health and wellness podcast On Purpose with Jay Shetty I want to start off with just setting context for people. Season's just finished.

0:19

You're heading it off into the playoffs.

0:22

Like how do you prepare at this time? It's a big year. Huge start for you.

0:30

You talk about hard work, work ethic in the book all the time, but how is this different?

0:34

Or how do you set yourself up? Yes, wow.

0:37

This is my 18th season, right, in the NBA, and it's been been a lot, right?

0:43

A lot of good things have happened, but a lot of unfortunate bad things have happened.

0:47

Losses, injuries, and all of this, and it's crazy.

0:51

I usually have like this dead date. Right?

0:54

Honestly, like we usually have this dead date with everybody that works with me, where we'd be like, "Look, Chris will be doing meetings and all this stuff until this date, and then we just lock in." You know what I mean?

1:03

But uh doing the book and everything, um it's been cool, and getting the chance to do this is is really cool.

1:10

And so when you lose at something, right?

1:13

Like one like group of athletes I've always thought about is Olympians. Right?

1:18

Like the Olympics happen once every 4 years, right?

1:23

And if you trip like in that race, that's it. Yeah.

1:28

You got 4 years till you can get ready for it again.

1:30

But see, for us, like when we lost last year in the playoffs, you know, you feel that heartache and that hurt, and it's like I can't wait till next year.

1:39

And now finally next year is here, you know?

1:42

So we got 5, 6 days to get ready for our first game, but it's it's nothing like it. Yeah.

1:48

In the book you said you think the game.

1:51

And when I read that, I thought that was interesting to me.

1:53

I've I've sat down with so many athletes on the show and behind the scenes as well, but I'd never really heard anyone say it that way.

2:02

What does that mean today?

2:02

What does that mean right now?

2:03

Yeah, that means I don't Do you do anything?

2:06

Do you like play cards at all?

2:07

I I used to I mean, I used to play soccer growing up.

2:10

That was like my favorite sport growing up.

2:13

like even if it's soccer, if it's Connect Four, right? Like I play dominoes. pong. I play ping pong. ping pong.

2:19

I play I play any and everything.

2:21

In any and everything you do, you have to have a strategy, right?

2:24

Whether it's a card game or anything and you just have to think different layers.

2:29

You can always play, right?

2:29

Just play, but if you can think the game, too.

2:31

And so me, like I was up this morning like soon as I woke up this morning before I called my kids, I was on YouTube like looking at clips.

2:40

Like I go to YouTube and I'll look at um or I'll go to this website that'll show me every shot I've missed or made since I've been in NBA.

2:50

So like I'm literally always watching, trying to learn, trying to see how I can get better.

2:54

So that's what I mean when I say I think the game. Wow.

2:56

So you literally go on YouTube, type in Chris Paul misses, and then watch.

3:00

And then Chris Paul hits.

3:03

this website actually called Second Spectrum Okay. that you can go do that.

3:06

But I can go on YouTube and look uh at this particular game.

3:10

So we're playing the Clippers in the playoffs, right?

3:12

So I can go look on YouTube.

3:14

They got everything on there.

3:16

I'm sure everybody know that, too.

3:16

But you can go look at all of my shots that I played against the Clippers this year. Wow. Yeah. And And you just study. Study it. Study the game.

3:26

Study who I might be guarding.

3:28

Study your opponent and all this stuff.

3:29

So then in the game, of course, talent and all that stuff, but at some point you still got to be able to think and sort of everybody has tendencies. Yeah. We play 82 games, right?

3:38

There's certain things that guys do on a regular basis.

3:43

So if I can learn that and figure that out, the better. Yeah, I love that.

3:44

And I saw that in your book, too.

3:46

It's like it's almost like you're observing patterns. Right.

3:50

Like there's all these patterns and that's what you're saying, like there's patterns over 82 games, and when you start spotting the patterns, it's hard for people to break them, and so they're going to keep repeating them.

4:00

I can't imagine the things that you learned and all the experiences that you've had, right?

4:03

But you know there are certain things that are staple for people that that are successful. Yes. Right? Yeah. You know what I mean?

4:09

Like you got to work hard, you got to have some type of discipline, right?

4:13

Or else whatever you want to see come into existence, it's just not going to happen.

4:21

It's like they always say um what is it?

4:25

I'd rather be lucky than good or something like that, but you you still got to have the work ethic to to see it through.

4:31

Yeah, what have been your Do you have like a set morning routine on game days and prep days, or do you kind of intuitively figure it out?

4:38

Like what what are you like?

4:38

Are you that disciplined beast that's just set up to win, or do you feel it out?

4:45

Uh good friend of mine, JJ Redick, uh he he does a podcast now, and he talks He was my teammate, but he's retired now.

4:51

Uh earlier this year he was talking about how sometimes a routine can drive you nuts, right?

4:59

And I had sort of got into that mode, cuz I didn't play so long.

5:01

I didn't felt like if I don't do this particular thing, I'm not sure what's going to happen tonight. You know, Yeah.

5:09

especially with how many games I play.

5:10

Like I I I'm serious, I used to have so much anxiety, like oh man, if I didn't do this before I run out on the court, God some injury might happen.

5:19

I mean, I used to have this crazy routine for the past few years, like I would get up, I would eat breakfast, go to the gym, shoot around might be at 10:00, I might get there at 8:15, do all the stretching, work out, shoot, then go home.

5:32

I would get body work from like 11:15, 11:17 till like 1:00, and then I would lay down, had to be at 1:00, get up at 3:00, shower, get dressed, eat, get in the car, go to the the You know, it just made for a long day.

5:47

Honestly, on a game day it was a long day.

5:49

And so, I stopped doing necessarily the body work from 11:15 to 1:00 just to give me some time to live. Yeah. Honestly. To just be.

5:57

Maybe like watch a show for a little bit.

5:59

When my kids in town, chill with them or what not.

6:01

And it's actually been like liberating. Yeah.

6:06

But for so long, you just like, I got to do this. I got to do that.

6:08

And it'll it'll drive you nuts. Yeah.

6:09

And it sounds like that's the way of it though, right?

6:13

Like the the reason you can take that break now or what's that show or catch up with your kids is because of that investment you put in for like Yeah.

6:20

15 years, 16 years For sure. For sure.

6:22

But you also realize that sometimes you got to break up the monotony of that routine or what not just to give yourself a break. Yeah.

6:32

That I think that's going to help a lot of people listening because I think there's so many people listening right now who are stuck in their routine and don't realize how much it can It'll it'll drive you crazy, especially in what we do now.

6:43

There's certain things like There's certain handshakes that's got to happen.

6:48

I like a few things not going to change, right?

6:50

Like uh when they call our name out for the starting lineups, I make sure I dap up all my teammates, then I go to the little slant board.

7:00

I make sure I put my foot on that three times.

7:02

I make sure I get the chalk, rub my hands together, clap them together three times, hit the back stanchion.

7:10

I got a lot of routine stuff that I do.

7:12

I like hit my chest, then I look up and you know, say what up to Kobe. You know what I mean?

7:17

And then we do the jump ball.

7:18

Some of that stuff not going to change.

7:20

But some of the other things or what not, you have to look at your situation and realize how can you be, I don't know, intentional with your time. Yeah. Yeah.

7:30

And do you feel like all of those things you just mentioned that aren't going to change, they were things you picked up along the way because of wins and Where do those originate from? Yeah.

7:38

So, it's funny it's funny you asked that.

7:39

And being on a team for all of my life, you know, I've been on a team since I was 5 years old.

7:44

And so when you find these little things, they sort of just happen, right?

7:49

So you're out there with your teammates and you come up with a handshake and then somebody like accidentally do something and then you're like, "Oh, I like that.

7:58

We're going to keep doing that.

7:58

We're going to keep doing that."

8:00

So all these things just sort of get added along the way. You know what I mean?

8:03

So like before before I leave the locker room, I also do uh like a one, two, three uh and a bunch of our team trainers, they they yell it with me.

8:16

I do one and they yell two, three, you know, so that stuff just sort of picks up and you keep doing it. That's amazing, man.

8:22

One of the things that comes through your book is you talk so much about hard work, confidence, you know, seeing your own potential when no one else sees it, being able to bet on yourself, having that confidence.

8:35

And even today I can tell there's but at the same time with that confidence, there's this humility in your book, too, because you talk so much about the teachers and the coaches and the mentors and you talk about this idea about how no one's really self-made.

8:48

And so you have this great balance between this confidence and this humility.

8:52

I wonder what was something that you were insecure about as a kid?

8:55

Was there anything in your life that you weren't confident about or things that made you doubt yourself at all? All types of things.

9:04

I mean, I was small, right?

9:06

Well, some people will still say I am. You know what I mean? In my profession. I'm small. Yeah. In my profession.

9:11

But I mean, I was a little brother, right?

9:15

So I had my older brother and all his friends would pick on me.

9:17

You can't do this, you can't do that. Uh I played football.

9:22

I mean, I was on my AAU basketball team.

9:24

I think I talk about this in the book and everybody on my team was on varsity. Except for me, right?

9:28

And so I was a little bit slower, right?

9:31

Than some of the other guys.

9:32

I mean, one of the most embarrassing things was back then, our team used to run out for warm-ups.

9:40

And back then, like our parents had chance and all these songs they would sing and as my teammates, we ran out to the court, everyone would run and smack the backboard, right?

9:49

Everybody pop pop, everybody smacking the backboard.

9:52

I couldn't touch the backboard.

9:54

So, I would have to run by the backboard and just get back in line.

10:00

So, I just had this conversation with my son the other day cuz I told my son he's going to be vertically challenged just like me.

10:07

And so, one of his biggest goals is to be able to dunk. Right?

10:11

So, he asked me when did I dunk for the first time.

10:14

I was a junior, I think in high school when I dunked for the first time.

10:18

So, he was like, "I'm going to dunk before that.

10:20

I'm going to dunk before that."

10:20

And I told him I'm cool and fine with that, but I also want him to develop the actual skills of like playing the game.

10:29

I feel like so many times now kids just want to be able to dunk instead of learning actually how to play the game.

10:36

How did How did you make that difference for yourself growing up?

10:37

Because I feel like kids are always kids, right?

10:40

Like you grew up watching Jordan and you want you know, so I feel like everyone who grows up watching anyone, we all want to stand that way, imitate, right?

10:49

And so, how did you stop yourself as an athlete when you were coming up to refocus just as you're encouraging little Chris to do?

10:58

It was just different and I and I say different because and it may be because of my circumstances and my situation, right?

11:07

And seeing my grandfather, right?

11:07

So, I saw how my grandfather provided for my family in so many different ways, especially financially.

11:15

And growing up the way I grew up, I always wanted more.

11:19

Like I wanted more, not just like financially, but I wanted to see things and I wanted my family to see things.

11:26

And I don't know, I've just always been very competitive and my brother helped make me that way.

11:35

But I just uh I mean, still to this day, like I really don't take no for an answer, right?

11:40

Like, there's got to be a way.

11:42

There's got to be a solution.

11:44

And if you tell me I can't do it, then we going to see about it. You know?

11:49

And so, it was a it was a drive about it, and it was a drive to just want to be better, and the curate curiosity, and I don't know.

11:58

Like I said, it was almost subconscious watching my grandfather work. Right? So, I played football.

12:05

My coaches were hard on me, you know?

12:07

And I just knew if I wanted to do something, I had to work.

12:12

Yeah, that work was just obvious through your grandfather, who just lived it every day.

12:15

And I'm you know, when you took the kids back to see the service station in the space.

12:22

That part of the book is is really special.

12:24

Because you reminded me, so I was I was 9 years old when my dad took me back to the home he grew up in. Mhm.

12:31

And my dad's home was probably as big His home was as big as this room.

12:36

Like, cut off that part as well.

12:39

Like, none of that hallway.

12:41

So, his whole house was this big. Mhm.

12:44

And it was in India where he grew up.

12:46

And so, he took me there.

12:46

And I I remember like walking outside, there was a lot of like trash on the floor.

12:50

There were like rats running around.

12:53

There were cockroaches inside.

12:54

This big bat flew on my face.

12:57

Like, had my Batman moment.

13:00

Like, I was like I was like this 9-year-old kid, and this bat flew in my face, and it was disgusting.

13:03

My dad put it out of my eyes.

13:05

And then we went in this house, and it was literally this big.

13:09

And I remember my dad was telling me how they shared like a toilet with like 30 families.

13:12

Like, he grew up in like, you know, immense poverty.

13:14

And it was just one of the best experiences of my life going there as a 9-year-old.

13:18

So, when I was reading about you taking your kids back to your grandpa's service station in the space you grew up, I was like, I know how formative that's been for me.

13:27

Walk us through what what their reaction was and Yeah. your reasoning actually.

13:31

Everything that you just said is so valid and if I be if I'm going to be very honest like when you're a kid you only know what you know, right?

13:40

And so the times that something was going on and I seen my grandfather pull that wad of money out his pocket I used to start tripping.

13:49

That's a lot of money to me, to anybody.

13:52

And so like as a kid you want things.

13:55

I mean when we was in the car and we went to McDonald's or something, right?

13:59

Or say you went to Wendy's.

14:02

I don't care where you went.

14:03

Like if you went to Wendy's we want the biggie size fries, right?

14:06

Like we want the extra large fries and the extra large soda. We couldn't do that.

14:11

You know what I'm saying?

14:13

Like my parents just wasn't doing it because we didn't have the the money to do it.

14:18

And as a kid I watched movies, too.

14:20

Did you ever see Richie Rich? Yeah, of course. Yeah. Right?

14:23

So you see Richie Rich, you see that movie uh what was it? Blank Check? Yeah. You know what I mean?

14:27

Like as a kid it's like damn, I'm trying to see what that be like. Yeah. Right?

14:32

And so of course you want things.

14:34

You want uh things, but the biggest thing that I learned is when I got to the NBA, right?

14:40

And you can get those things, they don't complete you at all. Like they don't.

14:45

But what you start to realize is that with the money and the finance at times you have an opportunity to change other people's lives. Mhm.

14:54

So that's when the work really just sets in.

14:56

It's like all right, I want to keep working cuz I want to keep providing and helping others or not.

14:59

So when it came to my kids they live a totally different life than me and my wife ever did. Right? And so this is so crazy.

15:09

Like I'm I'm picturing these real conversations that I have with my kids because for me and my wife like I wanted something different for my parents, right?

15:19

And the hardest thing is trying to figure out how to get my kids motivated because they can't get me and my wife a new house. Yeah. You know what I mean? They just can't.

15:30

And so it's constantly just making sure that they have their own motivation.

15:34

What's going to motivate them?

15:35

So I wanted them to see why I am the way I am.

15:38

Cuz sometimes they just see mom and dad or they just see me, but they got a chance to really go see why I get mad if the trash ain't taken out.

15:49

You know, because growing up I was having to cut the grass, we were having to fold clothes, wash clothes, do all these different type things.

15:57

So that's one of the challenges as a parent of how do you instill some of these things in your kids?

16:03

Yeah, and it throughout the book you see just how conscious and intentional you are about the kids.

16:07

And again, I think there's this healthy balance where like there's a lot of love for them and you get that.

16:12

It's not their fault that they didn't have that experience.

16:16

Yeah, but at the same time you want to help them.

16:18

And I think that it's it's such a it's such a hard balance to do, but it sounds like because you and Jaden are taking it so thoughtfully and intentionally that I I just see it all the time.

16:29

Like the amount of celebrity kids who also feel the pressure A to be like their parents in their field.

16:37

That's already a pressure.

16:38

Second of all, there's a feeling which I don't think a lot of people realize, but there's a lot of feeling of guilt for kids to be like, well, I didn't deserve this or my friends don't have this or like I didn't do it.

16:48

And then on the other side, which you get is the entitlement as well.

16:51

So so it's such a it's so much to deal with.

16:56

It's so much that goes into it, man.

16:56

And I think the the only thing for us that we've always tried to do is at least communicate with them and don't make them guess or try to figure it out on their own.

17:08

And even though I'm here somewhat giving advice or whatnot or talking about my memoir, I'm always looking for advice.

17:16

Some of the people that I've looked to as mentors or whatnot, most of our conversations have been on parenting because this thing don't come with a manual.

17:24

You know, it doesn't and I'm constantly learning, adapting, trying to adjust because kids um for sure will will will like test you, you know, and I think it's been the best test that I've ever had cuz they show you how to love unconditionally and uh it's the it's the it's the best ride.

17:46

Yeah, the part in the book that that really got me was when you're because I don't have kids yet and me and my wife have been together for around 10 years now and we moved from London to New York to LA and now we live in LA, but the last 7 years have been moving around and you know, in our own way obviously, I'm not moving how you are, but but still kind of that feeling of not having a home.

18:07

Now we know we're living in LA and we're we're happy there, but I often think about like how my kids will have a different life to the life I had even in So that the point I'm picking out of your book is when you're leaving LA and you're talking to little Chris about it and he's really upset about it like cuz he's made his friends and he's going to miss him and and and you can relate to that as a kid.

18:32

It doesn't matter who your dad is.

18:34

It's like as a kid it's like your friends are everything.

18:36

You're scared about what it's going to be like going to a new school.

18:40

I think that's when you're moving from LA to Houston. Yeah.

18:42

And and you're just you're feeling this discomfort and I love what you say to him where you're like I need you. Yeah.

18:49

And I thought that was amazing to hear a dad say like I need you.

18:51

It wasn't like you need to do this for me or you got to, you know, just just fix up and be be strong and man up and how did how did you recognize that that was the conversation?

19:03

I'm very visual so even when as you're talking to me like I'm envisioning when it happened.

19:08

Like we were in my office in my house in Calabasas and I'll never forget his face, ever.

19:15

It was tough and like I said, I grew up around the same friends. Right?

19:17

Like me and my brother got a group chat with our homies back home that we grew up with and that is probably one of the coolest things about my childhood.

19:28

Whereas I know to each his own.

19:31

Some people moved around a lot and it gave them the ability to uh be flexible to different cultures and this and that, but it was cool having a home base.

19:39

And so when we left and Chris said that it was hard.

19:43

It was really hard, which why which is why we ultimately made the decision when we went from Houston to OKC to let them stay in LA.

19:49

And it's always going to be hard.

19:54

That's what you understand is that there's no perfect life, there's no perfect family because in trying to give them stability, now last 4 years I've been without them.

20:06

You know, so I think what always ends up happening is somebody got to sacrifice. Right?

20:11

And if anybody going to sacrifice as far as my family go, I'm going to make sure it's me.

20:14

You know, and that's that's how we got to where we are now.

20:18

Yeah, and how do how do you stay strong in that time because I get that too.

20:22

Like my wife and I end up spending a bit of time apart every year as well because uh family both of our families are from London and they live in London and our niece and nephew are there, our sisters are there.

20:33

So my wife misses family a lot and her family's like uh her like fuel. Right.

20:37

And so we end up spending quite a few months apart every year and I wonder how do you stay strong?

20:42

How do you kind of like what do you work on to make sure that you're filled up as well because like you said it's a sacrifice, but at the same time you have to take you have to be the Man, I'm looking for tips and advice every day.

20:54

I'm telling you it's it's so hard and I and I tell you I think the the the biggest thing that I try to do is make sure that I'm not not too emotional in front of in front of my kids. right?

21:07

Because uh my kids are are special.

21:08

Like my my son is so like thoughtful, you know, and my daughter is the same way. And it's so different. Right?

21:20

My childhood was my dad was coach and all that. My mom was team mom.

21:26

So my parents never missed anything.

21:30

I think probably one of the coolest interactions was we played in LA maybe like a week and a half 2 weeks ago and my family came to the game and my kids were standing outside the locker room and I had no clue they did this, but when a few of my teammates left, they saw my daughter and they was like, "Cam, we be watching your baseball games.

21:46

We be watching your basketball games."

21:49

Because because I can't be there.

21:52

I'll literally be in the locker room before game. My iPad is set up.

21:54

My wife is videoing the game and I'm doing my stretches and exercises before the game and anybody that's in the locker room, they can hear they can hear my daughter's game going on.

22:09

So to see uh my wife told me how much my daughter like she just lit up knowing, you know, that I'm I'm not there physically, but I'm always you know, at least watching and trying to when I can.

22:21

I feel like kids feel that presence, you know, I always felt like my parents didn't have a lot of time for me.

22:27

They were both immigrants working hard trying to put food on the table, but I always felt their presence because when I was with them or see me there was a real connection there. Yeah.

22:40

And I didn't need like 8 hours a day, 10 hours.

22:42

I didn't have that luxury.

22:42

They didn't have that luxury.

22:43

But even if it was for those couple of hours every day.

22:47

I say that all the time, man.

22:47

I'm I'm so aware and conscious that like kids, my kids now 13 and 10. They're very smart.

22:55

They're very aware that if you was to get them a gift, say you're a big time person or something and you get them a gift and somebody works for you got them to give.

23:02

Your kids, you can't fool them, you know, but they would much rather have that time.

23:06

So, when I'm in town or whatnot, if I get a day off and I go home, the best time for me is taking my kids to school, right?

23:14

That 20-25 minute drive to school and then even the fact that my daughter still lets me walk her in, those I think are the most priceless moments because one thing that I learned during quarantine was that was the first year that I lived away from my family, right?

23:30

I was in Oklahoma and then the shutdown happened and we all went home for a while.

23:36

And it was just crazy because even though my kids might be doing their own thing, they felt comfort in I was like on Zoom trying to set up the bubble, right?

23:46

Cuz I was the union president at the time, but they felt comfort in doing their own thing, but they knew if they looked out the side of their eye that they could see me in my office, right?

23:56

So, just the awareness you might not necessarily be right there next to them all the time, but just the fact that they know you're there. Yeah. Yeah, well said. Well said.

24:04

And going back to one of your rituals, I was just thinking about this, you said you write can't give up now on your shoes before you before you got to play a game and I was I was thinking like, what is that, you know, 18 years is a long time to dedicate professionally and then what to speak of all the prep and and everything else that goes into it?

24:23

But what does it feel like to get traded, to feel down and out, to feel like it's not going in the direction you want and then to can't give up now? Yeah.

24:32

Like, I find that that kind of pivot for some people it breaks them and for some people it makes them.

24:39

And for you, any sort of pivots have only taken you further and further and further for you to perform and pursue at a higher level. What is that?

24:47

Because I think people look at you and even when I read your book, I was just thinking you're working really hard at basketball.

24:54

You're really working hard at your family.

24:55

You're working hard at being dad.

24:57

I'm like, this guy works hard on every area of his life.

24:59

Like there's not So you're trying to. Yeah, I respect that.

25:04

You don't come across as you're perfecting it, but there's this energy of like I'm thinking about how I'm raising my kids.

25:09

I'm thinking about my family relationship.

25:11

But then when the career part is having its hiccups and slip-ups and whatever else in the past, what did you find when you get that can't give up now?

25:20

Like where does that come from?

25:23

So I tell you what I came from was when I got traded from Houston to OKC, like to be I I was mad.

25:29

Like really mad because I've been told one thing and another thing happened.

25:34

And when I went to Houston, I'm we moved like 15 people to Houston. Right?

25:38

So to not know and to know that I was going to Oklahoma City, I was hot.

25:43

I was in Augusta, Georgia.

25:47

And I didn't know what that meant. Right?

25:50

I didn't know what that meant.

25:50

I didn't know what was next.

25:52

It was the first time I've been blindsided.

25:53

I thought it was something There's a song about Mary Mary, right?

25:56

It's called can't give up now cuz like I said in the book, I grew up in church.

26:00

I was in church four or five days a week.

26:02

And I remember listening to that song and like getting emotional and it was like, look, the trade didn't happen.

26:08

ESPN and everybody talking about it or whatnot.

26:13

I learned this a while ago in the league is that ain't nobody going to feel sorry for you.

26:16

And like you said, I've learned that too in this business that there's two different type of people.

26:22

People who going to feel bad for themselves and just sulk.

26:24

And then there's other people who going to get to work.

26:27

And so that was my that was my mindset.

26:30

It was like, all right, I think I'm done. All right, cool.

26:32

I got I put my head down and do the work.

26:35

And so that was, you know, my whole energy going into that. Yeah.

26:40

How how do you differentiate between what the media is building as a narrative versus your narrative?

26:46

Like how do you I find like athletes that's what makes the athletes job a million times harder than even playing the game. Yeah.

26:55

Especially now with social media where there's so much chatter, so much conversation.

26:58

How do you keep your focus around this is reality and that's just noise?

27:04

you said that because I learned something about myself even a few years ago.

27:10

I can't have that clutter. Right?

27:11

And when I played back in LA, I think I said this in the book too with the Clippers Doc Rivers, he used to talk about uh getting rid of the clutter. Right?

27:21

So when you get home from a game, if your team lose, everybody that's with your family and all that, what they going to do?

27:28

If y'all lost the game, what they going to say? Yeah. Uh hope you're okay. else's fault. Right?

27:34

Like if you lose a game and you get home, everybody in your family going they going to be like, uh this person wasn't doing that, that person wasn't doing that.

27:42

They ain't never going to say nothing about you. Right?

27:43

And so that's literally clutter. Right?

27:45

And the same thing I learned years ago in the playoffs, like in the playoffs you got to win four games out of seven. Right?

27:54

And I don't care what anybody says about social media or whatnot, but if you win a game in the playoffs and you go on the social media and you had a great game and everybody talking about you like you the best thing since pants with pockets, then you might let your guard down. Right?

28:09

And the same thing if you don't have a good game and you go out there and everybody's talking about how sorry you are, you might lose a little bit of confidence.

28:17

So for me, I try to block out all of that noise. Mhm. You know what I mean?

28:22

So that's like when the playoffs start, I don't want to see what ESPN talking about, I don't want to see what Bleacher I don't want to see what none of them talking about because you got to just stay locked in and stay focused.

28:32

And as long as you know what's true you know what I mean? Yeah.

28:36

People always going to say something.

28:39

Always they going to try to have some type of narrative or whatnot, but as long as you know what's real, I I that's what can help you keep your sanity.

28:47

Yeah, and I think that's one of the hardest skills for anyone, let alone someone who a lot of people in the world are talking about.

28:53

Like that's you know, I can imagine that affects kids today.

28:57

I'm sure kids feel it at school and you see that with them at school.

29:00

Like And see this is the thing I tell you and I'm not a parent, coach, anything like that.

29:05

I can only tell you my experience, but what I've learned with social media with kids, right?

29:11

And having a 13 and a 10-year-old is that when I was growing up if a girl didn't like you or something like that, you dealt with it at school. Right?

29:21

Once you went home, you didn't have to deal with it. Right?

29:23

You You just saw her at school the next day.

29:25

Now with phones and social media and all that, one thing I know is that these kids are dealing with things all day long, right?

29:33

It could be on Snapchat, it could be on Instagram or whatnot.

29:38

And if I us as adults, if we can't handle that mental capacity, like I said, I can't handle that.

29:42

Like I'm on Instagram, but I'll go weeks without even looking at it. You know what I mean?

29:48

Just because I feel like, you know, with our stories and stuff like that now, we ask people how how they doing.

29:54

We already know what the hell they didn't did for the last 3 weeks. You know what I mean? So, that's just me. Yeah.

30:00

Yeah, there's I I want to I want to shift here because there's what I found was really special as someone who was reading your book and and just again, like I said, learning so much about you.

30:14

It was like you said that your grandpa you know, you stay encourage you to listen to obituaries.

30:19

And when they came on and you'd he'd he'd tell you more about that person, too.

30:24

Like he had this amazing memory. though. I ain't going to say.

30:28

It was It was weird and kind of strange because like it wasn't no like iPhones where the alarm went off and he knew to do it.

30:36

It's like everybody would be working and my granddaddy would just be like, "Cut on obituaries."

30:41

And soon as somebody hit the little radio player, the song would be playing.

30:48

It's like kind of morbid.

30:48

And they would just start naming off the people who had died. Right?

30:52

And I mean, everybody out there working and you might hear Mr.

30:58

Ulysses or Bo or somebody say, "Oh, such and such died."

31:01

You know, they didn't know.

31:03

And my granddad might start talking about one of them, but cuz I talked about my grandmother dying when I was 7.

31:09

That was my first time, you know, being faced with death. And then, it's crazy.

31:14

It was a funeral home in our hometown called Russell's Funeral Home.

31:18

Like once every like 2 weeks or whatnot, they would bring their fleet of cars up to the service station cuz they had like a It's crazy to think about it now.

31:27

They had a business account, right, with my granddad's service station.

31:30

And so, just It was a lot, man.

31:33

I had That's why I ain't I still don't deal with death well. You know what I mean?

31:37

To see the the hearses pulling there and I don't know. It was It was different.

31:43

Yeah, it's it's You said that with your grandmother's passing, you're like, "I never really got over that."

31:47

Like and I think that's That's so real for for so many people.

31:53

But like you said, like people often say like, "Oh, I know how you feel."

31:55

But no one can know how you feel cuz they didn't know that person.

31:58

They didn't know your connection to them, that experience.

32:01

Like you you dealt with that so early on at 7.

32:06

And like you said, you didn't you never really got got over it.

32:08

Now when you look back on it, is it something you even want to get over or is it something that just stays with you and it's important to you?

32:17

it just stays with me cuz um I tell you, like writing this book was also like therapeutic cuz some of the stuff I had never talked about.

32:23

And so, might have been a week or two ago, I was talking to my parents and was just asking them.

32:29

Like I was like, "Dad, I was like, when was the first time you dealt with death?" Right?

32:33

Because my kids are 13 and 10, and they have it. Right?

32:38

The only person I think that they've seen pass away, like I would, is um my my wife's grandmother. Right?

32:44

And so, obviously, the less you have to deal with death, the better.

32:51

But, I mean, as soon as I go to a funeral, right?

32:57

All those emotions from when I was 7, you know, they they come right back. They come right back.

33:01

And there's something about the closure aspect of it, and somebody not being there anymore.

33:07

I'll tell you something really cool.

33:09

My dad, when I grew up as a kid, videoed everything.

33:12

Every one of my games was VHS, all of that.

33:14

My dad uh found a bunch of those tapes, and he had them converted into DVDs.

33:20

And so, recently, maybe like 3 weeks ago, he sent the DVDs to me.

33:27

He hadn't even watched them.

33:30

And I put one of the DVDs in, and I was watching it, and we used to have events all the time at this place up the street from our house.

33:38

And I was looking at the video, and I was like, "What is this?"

33:41

And I kept watching it for a while, and my granddad walked in.

33:45

It was actually a video from his 60th birthday. Right?

33:49

Literally, just 3 weeks ago, came across this.

33:52

And um it was like emotional watching it.

33:55

And I started filming some of it, cuz uh I hadn't heard my granddad's voice in shh over 20 years, since since he passed away.

34:03

I took a video of it, and I put it in our family group chat. My mom called me.

34:07

She pulled over to the side of the road, and she was crying.

34:11

Because you don't you don't think about stuff like that. You know what I mean?

34:14

My kids, they know the story of my grandfather. They know all of that.

34:15

But, they'd never heard his voice.

34:17

My wife, I didn't know she had never heard his voice. Right?

34:21

So, to to have this footage now, and my brother talked wishing him happy birthday, and I'm anxiously watching.

34:31

I'm like, man, where am I? Where am I?

34:34

Cuz you see everybody setting up and then you see somebody say, all right, everybody be quiet.

34:38

He's about to walk in cuz it was like a surprise.

34:42

And so when I heard somebody say that, I was like, oh, I must be bringing him in to surprise cuz we used to be together all the time.

34:48

And then he walks in and then I don't see myself.

34:50

I'm like, where am I in this video?

34:54

And as my brother's giving his happy birthday speech to my granddad, he says if Chris was here, he would have said the same thing.

35:04

And then I I like just this whole feeling came over me cuz I wasn't there. And I called my mom.

35:10

I was like, Mom, where was I? Where where was I?

35:12

And she was like, you had to be at the AAU tournament. And so it was crazy.

35:16

Like I was getting emotional again cuz I was like, damn, that's sort of been the story story of my life is missing stuff. You know what I mean? But is it's crazy.

35:24

Like I said, death and all this stuff, you just you never get over it.

35:29

And you're not reminded of it until you you face with it again. Yeah.

35:34

Thank you for sharing that story, man.

35:35

I mean, that's like the Ooh, I mean, to be to be reminded of being absent because you're pursuing your dream, but then, you know, the the stuff, like you said, sacrifice.

35:45

You said some something has to be sacrificed, but I can't imagine what it felt like to, you know, reconnect back with that memory through finding it amazing tape, but then Right.

35:54

Especially at this time with the book Especially at this time with the book coming out to to finally see that that was uh that was really cool.

36:02

And I think I mean, I got my little cousin AJ and Tacoria who like 29 and 27, they had never heard AJ had, but they were kids or whatever when he died, so they hadn't heard anything. Yeah. Yeah.

36:15

What what do you think was a lesson There's so many lessons in the book that you learned from your grandpa and that that I you know, I think people should read the book for that to learn the depth of it, but what's the lesson that you think you carry in your heart the most that stays with you right now till this day that you feel lives with you?

36:35

Man, it it sounds so generic, but I say the work ethic, right?

36:38

But it's crazy because I could sit here and say you got to work, you got to work, it's the work ethic, but I'll also say it's the balance because it's the one thing that I also learned about my family and my mom said this and I never even thought about this aspect of it was that my grandfather worked so hard and I think I said this in the book that that was all he knew.

37:01

So, he never actually I don't want to say enjoyed our family, but he never like went on vacation, you know what I mean?

37:09

And I'm not saying you got to go to another country or something like that, but just try to make sure that there's balance and make sure that of course, you got to work work work to provide, but make sure at some point you take some time to enjoy the people around you and your family because my mom said that the the one time that my granddad actually went on vacation was when my grandmother was about to pass away.

37:36

And so, it wasn't until he seen that he was going to lose my grandmother that he was like, "Okay, I need to to do something with her."

37:43

Yeah, and you and you talk about how like he used to finish work at like 7:00 a. m.

37:47

to 7:30 and then he started ending at 6:00. Yep.

37:52

And he was saying like to some people that may not be a big thing, but to you and your family that was huge. That was huge.

37:56

Because all you saw him do was work.

37:57

All we saw him All we saw him do was work and when my grandmother died, is when anywhere he went, I tried to go with him. I tried to go with him.

38:06

And it's it's tough, man.

38:08

Like I like I keep saying, my mom is unbelievable cuz I mean, I'll be 38 in a few weeks and I still got mom and dad.

38:19

And it's not till I got older and I started like I was like, man, mom, you lost mom and dad, you know, so I can't imagine that. Yeah. Yeah.

38:30

And how do how did they process it?

38:32

Cuz you say in the book like how, you know, we don't always do therapy, we don't always talk about it.

38:37

Like have you helped them with their grief while you help yours?

38:40

Do you find that useful as a family to connect or is it You know, it's crazy.

38:43

I don't think my parents have read the book yet.

38:44

I'm so excited for them to read it.

38:46

I want them to read the book, but I also want them to listen to the audio book cuz I did the audio book so they can actually hear my voice.

38:53

And I think when they read it they probably going to learn some stuff about me that they probably don't know.

39:01

And I know my my family is extremely emotional and a lot of times we're all working. We're all on the move.

39:06

We're all on the go, but uh I think it's going to be something cool to talk about once they read it. Yeah.

39:11

What do you think's going to shock them the most or surprise them the most or or something you think that they're going to be maybe even Is there anything that would make them uneasy?

39:20

What do you think would don't think anything's going to be uneasy.

39:22

Some of it probably be funny.

39:26

Cuz I talk about some of me and my brothers like childhood growing up, my parents never talking to us about sex, all this different type stuff, but uh it's um it's going to be real cool and I think they'll probably I mean, I try to tell my parents how much I appreciate them all the time, but hopefully they get more of a feeling of that through the book, too. Yeah.

39:43

Do you think you were talking about the hard work and the balance and it's such a it's something that I think all of us who are ambitious or obsessed with figuring out, right?

39:57

You want to put everything into the thing you love, the thing you were born to do, and at the same time you realize it's meaningless if the family, the relationship, the friendships aren't there, right?

40:07

We always hear the term like no one wants to be lonely at the top or it is lonely at the top.

40:13

And so, do you think that that makes you sacrifice success or do you think that is success is to be able to have both? It depends. It depends.

40:20

If you can have both, then that's probably the ultimate goal, right?

40:26

To have both, to have that success and have that balance.

40:27

But the thing that I'm always battling with, right, is that 18 years of my life I've been in the NBA.

40:36

And that is a blessing, right? I want to be there.

40:39

I want to be there for my kids' events.

40:41

I want to be a dad just like my dad was to me because I'm not where I'm at without my dad sort of cultivating that and and being there.

40:53

And then there's this other side of it, too, where is if I was to retire, right, and stop playing knowing that I still got a lot left in the tank and still got the passion and whatnot, would I be this amazing dad that I want to be if I gave up my own passion? Mhm. Right? Mhm.

41:13

So that's the the hard decision.

41:13

That's the hard decision that everyone has to make all the time.

41:18

And I constantly have those conversations with my kids and my wife about it.

41:22

And you know, we ultimately sort of decided that they wouldn't like the person that's at home if I stopped playing prematurely.

41:31

Yeah, that's so real, man.

41:34

I think that's like the that's that's the biggest realization is like how if you're not living your purpose, the person you become is like a figment, like a little tiny piece of who you really are.

41:46

And then everyone's getting that leftover version of you. Exactly. And so it's it's crazy. You just never know.

41:52

It's you know, that time, you know, you you won't get that time back.

41:57

It ain't like you can stop playing and then call the NBA in 4 or 5 years be like, "Yo, pick me back up."

42:02

You know, but also you don't get that time back with the kids.

42:06

So you it's what we're all trying to figure out. Yeah.

42:09

If you were in that tape, if you were there at that birthday, what would you have said? Oh, man.

42:17

I'm sure there's a tape somewhere from one of those other birthdays, but I know I would have just talked about how my granddad was my best friend, you know, and how I was happy for him to be there, and I probably would have said something about him not having his teeth in.

42:29

You know, in that video in the video that I seen of him, he didn't have his teeth in his mouth, so as soon as I seen him walk in and his whole face was closed up, I was like, "Oh, where is my granddaddy teeth at?" But, um I don't know.

42:43

And it was crazy for me because, like I said, I'm watching this video not knowing what it is, and then when I see it's his 60th birthday, knowing that he died literally the next year at 61, it was uh it was crazy.

42:53

So, I would have definitely just told him, you know, how much I love and appreciate him, and probably try to get him to move in with us again. Mhm.

43:01

What what do you think is the lesson that if he was here with us today that he'd still want you to learn or something he'd be poking at you at for or Oh, man.

43:11

What do you think he'd be coaching you on right now?

43:14

Probably all the texts that I get, my temper. Oh, yeah. Probably. But, um I don't know.

43:19

I think the biggest thing that my granddad would be proud of, if he was still here, was just that our family is still together. You know what I mean?

43:28

I think that's the biggest thing that he'd be proud of because he had uh he had my mom and he had my Aunt Rhonda, right?

43:34

And so, the fact that even in LA, that's where my wife and kids live, where my brother lives, that's where my Aunt Rhonda's kids, AJ and Coya, live.

43:44

Like, all the holidays, we all still get together, even after all this time, and uh I think that's what he'd be most proud of. Yeah.

43:54

I mean, you know, it's like you're when I'm reading the book, I had the the bird's-eye view note of what had happened in your experience, but then to read it and to get the the real context of the depth of your relationship with your grandpa, which then when you read about what happens, you're like you know, that that like it gets it gets you, right? Like it gets me.

44:16

I wasn't close with my granddad at all. Mhm.

44:19

Um I never I barely met my dad's dad and I was never really that close to my mom's dad and so I didn't I don't have I can't even say I know how you feel because I don't even have that context, but I felt close to your relationship with your granddad because of how you described him.

44:36

And then I mean there's there's no words to describe it for it to happen just in the most tragic way that you could lose someone you love and the way you find out, the way you rush over there, like yeah, that that whole moment when I'm reading it it was like I can't imagine how tough it is to relive that for you as you're writing it out and why was it so important to share that piece and why did it mean so much to you to share that?

45:05

Yeah, I think it was important for me to share it just um selfishly it was for me too, you know, to to talk about it and also to show why I am sort of the way I am and why I'm wired the way I am and I don't know, keep learning little things.

45:22

Like throughout the book, throughout the process of writing the book, I was having to call and ask like my mom some questions, right?

45:28

Like that's how I found out my granddad's name was uh Chile.

45:32

Like I know we called him Papa Chile, but called my mom.

45:37

Luckily my granddad still has a few siblings that still alive and that's why it's so important to ask our grandparents and things like that questions so we know our history.

45:50

And I don't know, I think it was just great for me.

45:53

Um obviously I want a lot of people to read it, but sometimes I was almost in the book just talking to my family.

46:01

Because even being away from home, right?

46:03

I haven't lived in Winston-Salem in 18 years.

46:05

And that's where all my family is.

46:07

Like you were saying your wife like London or whatever, I grew up around all my family, so in some parts of this memoir is me talking to my family back home that I've been away from for a long time and just let them know how much I appreciate them, how much I miss them.

46:23

Um through a lot of these experiences, too, it's taught me I really treasure the relationship that my kids have my parents and my wife's parents. Right?

46:35

Cuz my dad, my mom and dad, they are not the same people that raised me. Right? They are not.

46:39

The way they be so nice to my kids and you know, my son in the backyard shooting basketball when he was younger and he bricking left and right and my momma just yelling, "Good job, baby. Good." No.

46:51

That is That is not what you're supposed to be doing.

46:56

But there are times when my kids will do something and I get on them and I see my dad them like, "Be easy on them."

47:01

And I like, "You wasn't easy on me."

47:03

But because of my grandfather and that relationship, I get it. Like I get it.

47:11

When my parents would get mad at me or I get my butt whooped, the first person I called was my granddad.

47:17

So, I'm I'm grateful for that cuz those relationships are really important and I want to make sure that my kids uh have that bond that I had to with my granddad. Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

47:29

And And that's I'm so happy to hear that.

47:31

I'm so happy to hear you feel that your kids have that with your parents and Jada's parents because Yes, cuz when they wake up when my parents are in town and my kids wake up in the morning, they run in there first. Yeah.

47:43

They run in there first and I see the way that my parents light up.

47:44

And it's seriously, like I literally look at my parents and I think back to my granddad and how he must have felt. And it's it's so crazy. What's this? 2023, my dad is 62 now.

48:00

And so, when my grand I mean, when my dad turned 61 last year, it was like crazy emotional for me cuz I was like, "Man, this is how old my granddad was when I lost him."

48:11

And it's crazy to see like my dad. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

48:16

And for them to to have him in the house and in greatness.

48:21

It's uh I think the part that really blew my mind is you saying how you found a way to have uh empathy and uh you know, some sort of like forgiveness for the four individuals that assaulted your grandfather.

48:37

And I think having to relive it again when the case gets opened up again and you know, you know, to deal with it up until 2021, I think it was.

48:46

Like you know, it's like that having to go through it is the worst thing anyway.

48:52

And then to have to leave relive it again and for it to be opened up and for innocence to to be the topic of conversation and for then again for it to close like But you for you to be in a place where you said it's taken you a long time, but you feel like there's a certain level of empathy.

49:07

I'm like, "That is I mean, walk us through the journey, not the end cuz the end is the hard part, but Yeah, the journey's tough because in the immediate reaction Oh, yeah.

49:23

Like I said in the book, I had some family members who was going to handle it handle it themselves.

49:29

But it was um I don't know.

49:31

It took a while, but then you start to realize no matter what happens, he's not coming back. Right. I couldn't get him back.

49:40

And I don't know if it was just getting older or the way that I like watch shows, you start learning about the prison system and all this different type stuff.

49:49

And you you start realizing that people make mistakes, sometimes bigger than others, but being incarcerated for that long of a time, you know what I mean?

50:00

If you can show that you're remorseful and everything that everything has happened that's when I definitely think you need a second chance at this thing.

50:11

Did you ever receive any remorse or apology or any sort of thing from them or that never happened? No. No, never.

50:16

And what's crazy is like I said, when that case got reopened, that was one of the first times it was the first time that I actually started finding out details about the case. Yeah.

50:30

Cuz you think about like I said, I was in college and my parents wouldn't let me go.

50:34

They wouldn't let me go to any of the court hearings or anything like that.

50:38

And uh over the years, I tell you my Aunt Rhonda, she the one that be on top of everything and it was a few times that I used to ask her.

50:47

I used to be like, "Auntie, show me show me what the boys look like."

50:51

You know, and she would like pull up a picture or what not.

50:52

And that was like hard to even look at cuz you start questioning asking why like the hell why would you do this?

51:01

But as time goes on you just you just try to heal.

51:06

That's that's huge, man, to to never hear the apology and remorse and to almost to accept an apology you never received in order to rise above.

51:18

I mean, that that's like I mean, that's I mean, I was going to ask you what do you think's the toughest thing you've ever done. I'm like Mhm.

51:26

that sounds like the toughest thing anyone's ever had to do. Yeah, for sure.

51:30

It's definitely one of them.

51:30

Like I said, I think it was the unexpected situation as far as my granddad.

51:34

And in the book, like I really like detail.

51:39

You know, when traumatic things happen, you sort of tend to remember everything down to I remember scuffing my Jordans. You know what I mean?

51:45

Uh right there about a about a gym. And it was crazy.

51:50

It was just a whirlwind how everything happened.

51:52

I went from the best day on the 14th, seriously, like a movie.

51:56

The 14th signing my letter of intent to the 15th that happening.

52:01

You start to realize that I don't know.

52:04

Like I don't I'm I'm right here thinking about it. I love that.

52:07

When people when people call you sometimes now or what not, like you always hope for the best but expect the worst.

52:14

You know, when somebody says, "Yo, this happened." You know what I mean?

52:15

Even though that one situation happened, it sort of almost gets you on edge when it whenever something happens. Yeah.

52:22

Well, well, I think that the book is genuinely like it's a beautiful dedication to your grandpa.

52:30

Like it is like I can't imagine anyone in the world who wouldn't be super proud to be honored in that way.

52:38

Like it's such a beautiful honoring of a person that you loved.

52:41

And I've never I don't think I've ever read a memoir that felt like the honoring of someone else. Man, I appreciate it. I really mean that.

52:48

It's like I I was reading I was like you you know, obviously you shared you do share so much about yourself, but so much about yourself is in him. For sure. And from him.

52:57

And so you know, to to read something where someone honors like almost offering your life as an honoring to him is to do that in a memoir is very very special. It's like very special.

53:07

How many books have you written? Written like two. I'm on my third, yeah. Oh, yeah. This is one.

53:13

And that one was that took a while because like you said, I wanted you to be able to feel like what I was experiencing and what I was going through. And it's cool. It's really cool.

53:23

It's really cool to hear that you you read it all.

53:25

That sort of made me nervous when you said that, too.

53:26

Cuz cuz it's not probably not always going to be um the best or what not.

53:33

But if somebody can draw any experience from it, right?

53:38

Any experience from it and uh I think then that was a win. Yeah.

53:43

And I I I didn't mean to scare you.

53:45

I just wanted you to know, you know, I just I feel like when I when I started to dive into you and it, I was just like I just needed to feel like I had a real grasp of what you'd gone through to to to honor you in this way as well.

53:58

Like when I sit down with someone, I feel like I'm trying to to some degree appreciate and honor their life because it's my ability to also capture your you as a as a human.

54:11

And even even the name, like I remember when the book first came on my desk and I was trying to figure out like I didn't get the physical version, but the the digital version.

54:18

When it first came to me, I was like, "Oh, 61, interesting."

54:22

And I started diving into everything around it.

54:25

And what it what did it feel like winning that game, you you know, when you talk about all the feelings that rushed through your head of like, "Oh, that's the record of Jordan at 67."

54:34

And you know, I feel like when you're in that place, so many things are flashing in between your eyes.

54:40

Like, walk just walk us through that.

54:44

It was crazy cuz like I said, the high school that we played against was my mom's old high school, Parkland.

54:50

And the most I scored in a game up to then might have been like 34 or 36.

54:55

And I know that when death happens or things happen for me a lot of times, I get quiet, right?

55:01

And a lot of times that's because I'm just trying to collect my thoughts or trying to breathe or I don't necessarily know what I'm always thinking, but I knew that I wanted to try to honor my granddad somehow, someway.

55:13

And I didn't want everybody to know. Mhm.

55:18

You know, I'm one of those people that just like try to get it done, right? Get it done.

55:24

And when it happened and I had 59 and I drove and I I scored the 61st point, I think about that was 20 years ago, right? 20 years ago.

55:33

So, I had I couldn't foresee that I would be in the NBA all this different type of stuff, but um that was the highlight. Right?

55:43

And I just never forget being so tired and exhausted because emotionally I've been drained. Right?

55:50

I had literally been drained and seeing my dad over there on the bench and my brother or whatnot just made it that much more emotional and I knew, like right then, that all my family was in town or not and that's something that would always connect us for the rest of our lives. Yeah.

56:08

Yeah. I think I think for so many people who went through something like that 20 years ago it's easy to for all of us on the outside to look back now and see how incredible it is, but uh for so many people that would have been a very valid reason to give up on their dream or for it to

56:26

not happen because it you know, it it derails you and it can derail your life and that would be completely valid, but to actually look back at it now and go this career is dedicated to this person through your lens it's it's remarkable to think that you could find the courage to step up again and go from that. Yeah. Yeah.

56:45

I think what's even crazier for me probably at this point in my life is that I've actually been without my grandfather longer than I was with him. Right?

56:54

And I never think about that.

56:54

You sort of just live or whatnot, but there's literally almost nothing that I can do on a daily basis that I don't think about him, you know?

57:04

And what's crazy is in the book um I think I said something about uh one of his favorite scriptures being Philippians 4:13, I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

57:16

In that video I just found when he's standing up thanking everybody for coming to um his birthday thing, he says that. Wow.

57:26

And it gave me goosebumps.

57:26

He says that in the video, so one thing about it, I'm going to tell my daddy to keep keep buying the videos cuz it's uh it's it's really nice to have.

57:35

Yeah, and that's not the watch though, that's a different watch.

57:39

No, but this isn't the watch, but uh Vacheron, right? This is a 222.

57:42

I literally got this watch because it looks like the one Yeah.

57:50

The way you described it, I was like, yeah, yeah.

57:53

watch looks like it and I mean, I think I talked about how strict my parents were growing up.

57:57

There was no earrings, no nothing like this or whatnot, no tattoos or whatnot, but last summer I got this this tattoo right here which is Chevron logos. Mhm.

58:07

Right, so uh from my granddad. Yeah.

58:12

I love getting to do this because I even even just sitting with you right now, I'm I'm like I'm thinking my head, I'm so grateful that I came out today to sit with you to to have this opportunity because you know, it takes a lot of courage to sit with someone and for them to open up in this way and obviously you have a book to do it and I was really fortunate to have the same experience to sit down with Kobe in 2019. 2019? 2019, yeah. 2019 it would have been.

58:37

It was it was literally like 2 months before his tragic accident.

58:44

So I got to interview him and we didn't we didn't know each other in the same way we don't know each other, but I felt like there was a real connection.

58:51

It was such a such a gravitas and such a presence when he spoke and just his demeanor with the team and just everything and and even today like you know, I think when when you talk about not being able to play with someone, but knowing what could have been, but you again even today you would like you look up and you know, honor him in that way like how how do you navigate what ifs in your career?

59:16

I feel like that again as an athlete is such a skill because there's so many what ifs.

59:21

so many what ifs. Like, what if I did that, played it that way, played it this like you know, and so talk us through that because I think even in life like that's what your whole book about just for everyone who's listening Chris's whole book is about what his

59:34

granddad told him off the court which applies on the court and then on the court lessons that apply off the court and there's this beautiful synergy but I think there are so many people listening and watching right now who live their life in what ifs

59:46

and you've had a lot of what ifs that's the big one you call out in the book how do you how do you breathe and live through that You know what it's 24 chapters in my book you know what I mean as a tribute to Kobe you know what I mean and

59:58

I was actually on the phone with Adam Silver yesterday and I brought up a Kobe quote talking to him and I actually talked to Vanessa every now and then too that's probably one of the coolest if not the best award that I've gotten since I've been in the NBA was um

1:00:14

a year before last they started a Kobe and Gigi award and I was able to get the the first one that they did and so Kobe was just different right and the way he approached things but the way we competed against each other and I think in the book what I keep

1:00:30

talking about when you say the what ifs right I always say if there was one thing that I could change in my entire career it wouldn't be wins and losses it would be how I rehabbed after my very first surgery right so I had surgery on my meniscus back in 2009 right and I was so young

1:00:52

2009 2010 I was so young at the time that it was like all right they did the surgery okay I'm going to be fine right didn't really take rehab that serious cuz I was just so young it was like okay they fixed it I'm going to be fine but because of that I've had so many

1:01:11

different things over my career different hamstring things or whatnot and me and my agent were talking about it the other day but sort of the story of my career has been the different situations that have happened over my career, how I've learned from them. Mhm. Right? So, an injury that I Mhm. Right?

1:01:28

So, an injury that I had, right?

1:01:31

It taught me something and I was like, "Okay, I'm going to figure out how to how how this is going to make me better." Right? I get traded or whatnot.

1:01:40

Okay, they feel like I ain't performing well enough or I'm not playing enough games.

1:01:43

How is this going to make me better?

1:01:44

So, every time something has happened, right?

1:01:48

You know, I got to talk about it in the book.

1:01:50

The craziest thing, probably one of the craziest things in my career was that injury in Houston. Mhm.

1:01:56

When I got hurt and we were a game away from going to the NBA finals.

1:02:02

And so, had that not happened, had I not hurt my hamstring that year and then hurt it again the next year, I don't think I still would be playing in the league right now. Mhm.

1:02:14

Because all of that stuff was a wake-up call to me.

1:02:16

It was like, "I got to change something. Mhm.

1:02:19

I got to change something.

1:02:19

I got to figure this out."

1:02:20

And once all that stuff happens, All right?

1:02:25

So, if you if you if you sit around and I'll tell you this, if you sit around and dwell on that what if too long, somebody going to pass you by. Mhm. You know?

1:02:32

So, if you sitting over there trying to figure out what if, somebody else over here going to take your job. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, definitely.

1:02:40

And that And that's And I And I love that idea of this happened, what can I do better?

1:02:44

This happened, what can I do better?

1:02:46

That that mentality of like continuous improvement and rededication as opposed to Exactly.

1:02:50

Instead of what if, it might be what's next. You know what I mean?

1:02:55

Cuz yeah, you can sit back and chill and me and Kobe every now and then be like, "Man, we played together. We played together."

1:03:02

Yeah, what not, but everybody can't do it, but I can compartmentalize that.

1:03:07

I can talk about this what if, but I'm still you know, I still got my eye on what's what what the goal is. Yeah.

1:03:14

Yeah, I think I think a lot of us live in what if, but we all have to learn to live in what is. Yeah.

1:03:20

what's next as you said, because that that's what we have. Yep.

1:03:24

And and I love hearing that it's great, but what I appreciate is it's a nuance.

1:03:28

It's really subtle what you just said there and I want people to appreciate it because what you're saying is I can feel this way, I can compartmentalize it and I can move on and I think that's super healthy because I think a lot of us pretend like we don't have what ifs. Right.

1:03:44

easy to walk around and I love what you just talked about with your injury.

1:03:45

It's a lot It's very easy to walk around and be like, "I've got no regrets.

1:03:47

I have no what ifs in my life."

1:03:49

But the truth is we all have them. Yeah.

1:03:53

you don't address them, they're going to come up somewhere. Exactly.

1:03:56

But but you're saying no, you have it, compartmentalize it and then focus on what next. That really resonated.

1:04:01

going to be sitting around telling them high school stories or whatnot that don't nobody care about no more.

1:04:07

Yeah, and that and that happens to all of us.

1:04:08

We can all live in nostalgia and walk down memory lane.

1:04:13

Uh Chris, this has been such a such an honor to sit with you.

1:04:15

Is there something that I haven't asked you or something that's in your heart and mind right now before I have a couple more questions, but is there anything that I haven't asked you or something that's on your heart and mind right now that you really want to share that Um feel I haven't touched on?

1:04:28

No, just the the appreciation for this and being able to talk and tell my story through the book and I hope people can really feel that it was it was really about that.

1:04:38

It was about letting people understand and know about me and make sure that people understand that look, my family, like anybody else has got their issues.

1:04:49

Everybody isn't all like loving and all this stuff on each other at all times.

1:04:54

I mean, extended family or whatnot, but at the end of the day it's my family, you know, and as long as you, you know, try to work through different things with you and yours, I promise you um you know, you'll appreciate it in the end. Yeah, I love that.

1:05:08

Well, Chris, we end every On Purpose episode with a final five.

1:05:14

And these ones have to be answered in one word to one sentence, maximum.

1:05:16

But, I always change the rules, so we'll we'll we'll try.

1:05:21

Uh Chris, what's the best advice, and I'm guessing it's going to be from Grandpa, but what's the best advice you've ever heard or received?

1:05:30

Uh never delay gratitude.

1:05:32

That was actually from my college coach, Coach Prosser. Mhm.

1:05:34

Well, walk us through that actually. I want to hear more.

1:05:38

Yeah, never delay gratitude.

1:05:38

And that means, you know, if you're grateful or thankful for anything, be sure and tell people.

1:05:45

You know, be sure and tell people.

1:05:47

Like, I don't care where I'm at, what's going on, whenever I get off the phone with my parents, my wife, my kids, or whatnot, it's always I love you.

1:05:53

You know, those times when you say you're going to tell somebody something in the morning or something like that.

1:05:59

Like, you just never You absolutely never know what's going to happen, so never delay gratitude.

1:06:05

And and that was a coach who said that to you.

1:06:07

How did How did that apply to sport?

1:06:09

And why How did Why did he introduce Because that's so interesting to get from a like a a basketball coach.

1:06:15

Yeah, so I talk about Coach Prosser a lot in the book cuz he's he's one of the most three most influential men in my life.

1:06:21

And he just had all of these sayings, right? Never delay gratitude.

1:06:25

If you can't be on time, be early.

1:06:27

Uh don't be a two-to-four guy, be a four-to-two guy.

1:06:29

And it was just all these different things.

1:06:32

And the reason that never delay gratitude thing, how it related to sports was it's hard to win a game, right?

1:06:41

It's hard to win one game, let alone make it to the playoffs.

1:06:43

Like, our coach the other night when we clinched to make it to the playoffs, in the locker room, he just told everybody, he said, "Listen, I'm grateful for you guys.

1:06:53

We always talk about gratitude.

1:06:56

There's a lot of teams that's going home and going on vacation, but you know, don't take it for granted that you get a chance to play in the playoffs."

1:07:02

Yeah, that's awesome, man. I love that.

1:07:04

And a lot of young athletes who are listening, or if you have kids who are young athletes, like that's great advice because often that kind of softer touch is is missed.

1:07:12

Like you don't think it's there.

1:07:14

So Yeah, but when I say never delay gratitude, I also mean for like kids to your parents.

1:07:19

Like when I'm at my basketball camps, I always make all the kids stand up and turn around and tell their parents thanks.

1:07:24

Cuz like I said in the book, my dad spent his entire 401k on me and my brother playing travel basketball.

1:07:30

So that's where these kids, they get to go do all these camps and all this stuff and don't delay gratitude.

1:07:37

Tell your parents thank you cuz every kid is not getting that opportunity. Yeah.

1:07:40

opportunity. Yeah. I actually I want to I want to take a side note on that because one of the things I was blown away by in your journey is just how much purpose and giving back and service is such a big part of how your your foundation, the way it's

1:07:53

set up, your when you walk through the, you know, the the murder of and the death of George Floyd and Black Lives Matter and then how you're dealing with it in the bubble and of course with your role at the time and you talk about how like you changed the messaging three times. Like it went from

1:08:06

Like it went from peace Yeah.

1:08:10

to to I forgot what the other one was. Say her name.

1:08:12

And then I think it was equality. Equality, yeah, correct. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

1:08:15

And and and you shift through it.

1:08:18

And I was just thinking like there's just so much intention in your life with all the work that you've chosen to do, uh what what's been kind of like a meaningful fruit or result that you've seen that has really It's a it's a lot of different things and I'm fortunate to

1:08:33

have an amazing team that works with me or what not cuz obviously dealing with a lot of different things on a given given day and trying to be the best athlete that I can be, but they're constantly bringing different things uh saying, "Hey, would you like to support this? Or could you Or could you do this?"

1:08:49

And uh I'm always trying to as much as I can.

1:08:52

And I think the most valuable thing that I have is time.

1:08:54

So even if it's before a game or after a game, giving a young kid an opportunity to watch me warm up, or taking a picture with him, and just giving them your undivided attention for for 5 minutes is one of the most valuable things that you can do with anybody. Yeah, absolutely.

1:09:10

And I just I'm I'm going to read this out because it's so it's so powerful.

1:09:13

So, last March, Chris was the only athlete appointed to President Biden's advisory board on historically black colleges and universities.

1:09:23

And and that's been I mean that that's incredible that you've become a a spokesperson and a champion for for that.

1:09:30

Is there some of the work there that's resonated or some stories that you think Oh, man.

1:09:33

Um It's probably so many.

1:09:36

Yeah, I mean well, we we got a lot of different things.

1:09:38

What we've done is uh me and my brother a few years ago, and then Carmen actually did it, too.

1:09:43

We went to this business class at Harvard with uh Anita Elberse.

1:09:47

Um a BEAMs class, business education management sports, I think.

1:09:53

And after going to that class at Harvard, we were like, "Why isn't this curriculum or course offered at HBCUs?"

1:10:05

And we got to work, and Anita helped with it, and now we have that course at a few different HBCUs. Wow. Right?

1:10:12

So, just always trying to figure out how we can make some type of impact. Equality, again. Exactly. Equal access.

1:10:20

Equal access to education. It's incredible.

1:10:22

I'm glad I'm glad we went there, actually.

1:10:24

Uh second question, what is the worst advice you've ever heard or received? Worst advice?

1:10:29

Uh "That cheese tastes good." Cheese is disgusting.

1:10:35

Like, seriously, I've never had a cheeseburger, macaroni and cheese, none of that. It's disgusting.

1:10:40

I thought you do my cheese is in money.

1:10:42

And so, you're being literal.

1:10:45

Yeah, you're being literal. Yeah, yeah, literal. Okay, literal.

1:10:48

So, you don't like cheese? At all. At all? No. No. Not even on pizza? No, no, no, no. I'm cool. No cheesy fries? No. Oh. No. Okay. No.

1:10:56

Okay, that's good to know.

1:10:58

When we used to get home from school, he used to go in the refrigerator and get the block of cheese. What is that?

1:11:02

I don't even know what it That string cheese, kind of like I think I know what you're talking about. Yeah. I don't know.

1:11:08

He used to have to take plastic off the side and eat it.

1:11:11

Doing nothing but putting mucus all in his body. Nasty.

1:11:15

Also, question number three, how would you define your current purpose?

1:11:17

You know, basketball and athlete, that's that's what I do, not necessarily all of who I am, but just just trying to help make a difference in in different aspects of life.

1:11:30

Whether it be HBCUs, whether it be health and wellness.

1:11:35

I think that's been a big thing that I've become passionate about the past four or five years is trying to figure out how to make some of these health things more accessible, right?

1:11:47

And make people more aware.

1:11:47

Like I'm always curious about this, that, whatever it may be.

1:11:54

I'm so curious about water and the things that people are eating and all these different type things and trying to make sure that other people become aware like I am and the other biggest purpose is whatever I have to do for my family. Mhm. Right?

1:12:11

Whatever I have to do do for my family, especially my wife and kids is just trying to figure out how I continue to pour into them.

1:12:17

Question number four, what what's your reaction to the title point god? Oh, man.

1:12:23

Uh the the point god thing has been it's crazy.

1:12:28

I don't even know when it started.

1:12:30

I don't even know when I when it started, but it's a privilege, right? Like a honor, basically.

1:12:36

That people see you playing the game the right way.

1:12:39

Now, it ain't something like worshiping thing or whatnot, but uh I get really like kind of shy and bashful when people say that or whatnot, but uh it's it's cool to be even in that consideration and playing for as long as I played. It's dope.

1:12:55

Uh fifth and final question, if you could create we ask this to every guest who's ever been on the show, if you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be? Take your time. Ooh wee. One law. Yeah.

1:13:12

That everybody in the world had in the world had to follow, what would it be and take your time. There's no rush.

1:13:15

Oh, that is everybody got to get them guns up, man.

1:13:19

Everybody Everybody come turn them in.

1:13:22

Everybody come turn them in. Everybody.

1:13:24

So, if we got some beef or something like that or somebody got to do something, you got to fight it out. You got to fight it out.

1:13:30

I don't know, that was the first thing came to my head. Yeah. That's awesome. Thank you, Chris Paul.

1:13:35

Everyone, Chris incredible memoir 61.

1:13:38

Make sure you go and grab it.

1:13:38

We're going to put the link in the comments and the captions across the board.

1:13:41

Want you to go read this book.

1:13:43

If you're already a fan of Chris, you're going to love it.

1:13:45

If you're learning about Chris through this, you're going to love it even more because it's it's truly a remarkable story of love, of sacrifice, of connection, of generations passing on beautiful lessons.

1:13:57

Uh you've got like four, five generations in the book being talked about.

1:14:01

So, I hope you go and grab a copy of 61.

1:14:03

Chris Paul, it's been a pleasure and an honor.

1:14:05

Honestly, honestly, you're Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

1:14:11

one of my favorite interviews, honestly, because you're so present.

1:14:13

When I was sitting with your book, it felt that way and to sit with you and to watch you thinking and to watch you visualize it and to watch you telling it from memory and then for you to share that story about finding that tape or your father finding that tape.

1:14:25

I mean, just really grateful, man. Thank you for this. Thank you. you, Jay. Thank you. Thank you, man.

1:14:29

If you love this episode, you'll love my interview with Kobe Bryant on how to be strategic and obsessive to find your purpose.

1:14:39

Our children have become less imaginative about how to problem solve and parents and coaches have become more directive in trying to tell them how to behave versus teaching them how to behave.