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Life never stops teaching.
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It is us who stop learning.
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The day you stop learning is the day you start dying.
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The best-selling author and host The number one health and wellness podcast On purpose with Jay Shetty When you came up with this idea of making illness optional Mhm.
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Talk to me about a bit about how you think that way.
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Because most people are trying to end illness or most people are trying to avoid illness, but you talk about making it optional.
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So, let's talk about how you create these moonshots and create these ideas.
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You know, to me the questions you ask is the problem you solve.
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So, fundamentally asking the question is the most uh I would say the best skill you can ever learn as an entrepreneur.
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But, as an entrepreneur, what most people somehow think that if they do something is small, it's easier to get started.
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And what I learned is it is so much easier to do something audacious, something that's going to change the trajectory of how humanity is going to live.
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Something that can impact the lives of billions of people around the world, and that's so much easier to do.
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So, every time I start a new company, I ask myself three questions.
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Why this, why now, and why me?
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And why this is really simple.
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You start backward and say, "God forbid, I am actually successful in solving this problem.
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Would it help a billion people live a better life?"
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And the reason for that it's not just because of philanthropic thing to do.
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It is really easy from a capitalistic point of view to see that if you can build any product, any service that helps a billion people live a better life, you can create a hundred billion dollar company.
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But, you don't wake up in the morning and say, "I want to create a hundred billion dollar company. What should I do?"
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Making money is simply a byproduct of doing things that improve people's life.
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So, I'm going to repeat everything you do, ask yourself, how is it making someone else's life better?
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Because if you do that, they become your most loyal customer.
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And if you have most loyal customers, you have a great business, right?
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But people somehow always think I want to make money rather than I want to do something that helps people, right? Yes. Yes. That's That's why this.
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So, in the case of Viome, we started thinking that, you know, we as humanity are suffering through this epidemic of chronic diseases, right?
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We call them with different names: diabetes, obesity, heart disease, depression, anxiety.
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You know, call them Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, or God forbid cancer.
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These are all the diseases younger and younger people are getting them.
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And literally every one of us during our lifetime is expected to have these chronic diseases.
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And it occurred to me that we as human humans as haven't evolved in the last 50 or 100 years.
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It takes millennia to change human genes.
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Then why is it in the last 50 100 years this epidemic is growing?
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And it occurred to me, if it is actually growing, there's got to be a way to actually slow it down and reverse it, right?
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And our thought was, what if we can understand the human body at a molecular level and find a way to use Guess what? Food as a medicine.
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What a new concept, right?
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To be able to actually understand what foods are good for you and what foods are not.
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People say, "Oh my god, such brilliant."
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And I tell them, "That brilliant idea came 2,500 years ago when Hippocrates said, 'Let food be thy medicine.'"
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So, I am not inventing anything. I'm reinventing. Yes. Yes.
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And that's the You know, it's a beauty of the things.
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So, we say, "Look, what if we can understand and make illness optional.
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And why did we say make illness optional?
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Because I don't think I or you or anyone has power to eradicate chronic diseases.
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But each one of us has a power to do something about ourselves.
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That means being healthy is a choice, and that means being sick is a choice.
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And that's how you make it optional by empowering each person to know what they should be doing and what else they should not be doing, right?
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So now the second part of the moonshot puzzle is why why now?
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Why now is very interesting in a sense that you have to ask yourself what had changed in the last couple of years.
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But more importantly, what do you expect to change in the next 3 to 5 years that will allow you to solve this problem at scale in 3 to 5 years.
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And more importantly, this problem couldn't have been solved 5 years ago.
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Because when something could have been done 5 years ago, that means the technology already existed for someone to solve it.
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And the fact it's not being solved is a very different problem, right?
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So you say, "Can I intercept tomorrow's technologies to solve tomorrow's problem rather than use yesterday's technology to solve tomorrow's problem?"
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And then the most important question in my mind is why me?
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And why me goes back to the question you asked.
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What question am I asking that is different from what everyone else in the industry is asking?
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Because as I said, the questions you ask is the problem you solve.
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So I'm going to give it a couple of framework here because that's to me is a crux of why people fail.
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So in my previous company Moon Express, we were our mission is to go to the moon and settle on the moon.
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And someday we can talk about why do that, but every time I say that we're going to go become a multi-planetary society, everyone will ask the same question, which is, "How are you going to grow the food on the moon?
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And to me, that question is a genuinely a good question, except the wrong question.
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Because when you ask a question how to grow the food on the moon, the only solution is to find a way to grow the food.
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And what if you ask a slightly different question that says, "Why do we eat food?"
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Just by asking why do we eat food, we say, "Oh, only reason we need food is for energy and for uh nutrition."
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What are the different ways can we get energy?
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Plants get energy from photosynthesis.
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A lot of bacteria who grow on radioactive nuclear waste, they get from radiation, they get energy.
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The point is now you have many more ways of solving a problem than simply growing the food that are different.
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So, by asking a slightly different question, you end up finding solutions that no expert would have ever thought about, because that was not the problem they were solving, right? Yes.
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Uh coming back to Viome, the problem we were trying to solve was finding the way to make illness optional or finding the way to solve the chronic diseases.
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We noticed that every expert was asking the same question.
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They want to know about what's in my DNA or my genes, and somehow if I know your DNA, your genes, we can solve the problem.
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Now, I am not a doctor or a scientist.
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It occurred to me, like anyone else will tell you, your DNA never changes.
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So, I am born with my DNA that I get from my mom and dad.
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Now, imagine somebody did my DNA test and told me, "Here is what you should be eating."
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God forbid I gain 200 lb.
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My DNA is still the same.
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Should I keep eating the same thing? PROBABLY NOT. NOW, I get diabetes.
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My DNA is still the same. Should I change my diet?
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One would think, "Hope so." But DNA hasn't changed.
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Now, I get heart disease. My DNA hasn't changed. And then I die.
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And you were to look at my DNA 10 years after I die, it's still the same.
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You can look at the DNA of a dinosaur, right?
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So, if DNA can't even tell you you're dead or alive, how will it ever tell you you're healthy or sick?
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But, what's always changing is not your genes, but your gene expression, called RNA or mRNA.
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And we thought, "Wow, why can't we measure RNA?"
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We didn't know how to do it.
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We didn't even know it could be done.
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But, simply asking the question, "We're not going to look at genes.
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We're going to look at your gene expression."
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allowed us to look at the problem so differently.
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And the second part that was very interesting to me was I read a lot just like you, just like our friend Jim Kwik or others. We just read a lot.
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And I was reading all the scientific papers, and it turns out every single disease is connected to something called microbiome.
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And for life of me, I don't understand what this microbiome was.
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And you can Google, by the way, Parkinson's and microbiome, cancer and microbiome, Alzheimer's and microbiome, diabetes and microbiome, anything you want is connected to microbiome.
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And I'm thinking, "Wait a sec.
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If everyone believes that diseases are caused or somehow impacted by microbiome, and there 10 companies doing microbiome testing, then why is this problem not getting solved?"
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So, it's not a eureka moment.
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I'm thinking, "Naveen, you are a This can't be a problem."
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And then it occurred to me to go back to the first principle.
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What question are they asking?
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Well, it turns out, Jay, to date, every single company that looks at your microbiome is asking the same question.
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What organisms are in Jay's gut?
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What organisms are in Naveen's gut?
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And they somehow thought will help you solve problem.
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Now, not being an expert, it occurred to me, I don't know what these organisms are.
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They're probably like a tiny human beings in my mind, right?
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And I thought, "What What if the 10,000 different organism could be producing the same thing that's making me sick?"
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So, it's not about who they are, but what they are doing.
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Or the same organism can produce something good in your gut environment, and the same organism can produce something bad in my bad gut environment.
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So, take a person and put them in a good environment, good behavior.
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Put them in a bad environment, bad behavior.
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So, our thought was what if we can find out what they are doing and how they changing our human gene expression, we can solve this problem, right?
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So, punish the sin, not the sinner, as Gandhi said. Yes. Yes.
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So, idea was you know, focus on what is it they're doing that's wrong and then focus on that, right?
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And that literally was the concept behind Viome.
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Well, it turns out all the story that we didn't know how to do RNA testing and no one has ever done it.
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In fact, no one does it today other than Viome because we found the technology at Los Alamos National Lab where they were doing a biodefense project.
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And this was one of the project was to find out if you're going to protect our country against bioterrorism when the organisms are there, what they are producing, that's how they can create antidote for it.
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And they had developed the technologies, so we licensed the technology, hired the people and built this thing to help humanity live better.
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And that's the only reason they gave me the license because they realized I am not simply building a company to make money.
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I'm doing it for the benefit of humanity.
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And since our taxpayer dollars were being spent in this day, that is a perfectly good application of that. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And And I'm so glad.
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I mean, I've done the test myself and it was the results were fantastic as well.
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Very useful, very insightful. Yeah.
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And And you know, I mean in a deep way.
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We tell you what's happening in your body, Jay, right?
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So, we tell you what's your biological age.
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What's your immune health?
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And I don't know if you did the test recently, it tells you your heart health.
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It tells you your cognitive health.
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It tells you your oral health, your dental health, your gum health.
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And it tells you everything that's happening in your body.
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And then, as you know, it tells you don't eat these foods and here is why.
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So, for me, it tell don't eat broccoli and Brussels sprouts, even though everyone thinks it's healthy.
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And we say, "No, your sulfite production is too high. Don't eat it." Right?
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Or don't eat the spinach because your oxalate production is not good. Right?
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Now, you can tell, "Hey, here are the foods you should not eat and why.
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Here are the foods you should eat and why."
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And then we go step further.
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Don't take vitamin B3 because your uric acid production is too high.
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Or don't take curcumin because your bile acid is too high.
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But you do need 22 mg of lycopene.
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You do need 11 mg of berberine.
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You do need 27 mg of uh amylase.
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And we go through every vitamin, mineral, herbs, digestive enzyme, amino acid, probiotic, and prebiotic. And guess what?
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We built a robotic compounding pharmacy where we make these capsules with only the ingredients in the doses that you need on the spot for each individual and ship them to every month.
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Now, 6 months later they can do a retest.
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So, no longer is it working or it's not working.
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It's no longer based on faith. It's based on fact. Right?
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And so, you can see the progress you're making.
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And I think to me what satisfies me, J, most is we have now analyzed over 500,000 people.
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And there is not a day goes by where we don't get, you know, emails or messages from people that you changed my life. I I sleep better. I have lost weight.
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I no longer have brain fog. I have more energy. Right?
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I am no longer have, you know, things like depression, anxiety, all the things, or even better skin.
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People who had acne or eczema.
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And to me, not being a doctor and watching changes people's life is what allows us to do hard work every day. Yeah.
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And just like you, I think, J, I get up every single day at 4:00 a. m.
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in my every day, 7 days a week I get up at 4:00 a. m.
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And I jump out of the bed every day because I believe if I may use the word, I think I'm doing God's work. It gives me joy.
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It brings me that pleasure, that things I am doing is making people's life better.
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Yeah, that's unbelievable.
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No, it's it's really special and I know that that's always been your mission.
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And I want to go backwards for people because I think when people hear about these incredible ideas and that idea that you told us about now, the idea of asking the question of why do we need to eat?
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Like why do we need food?
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That's such a unique, rare way of thinking.
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Were you always like that in school?
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Was that a way of thinking you developed and built over time?
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Like let's go backwards a little bit because I think the way you approach problems is so different and it is and hence why you're saying that most people would ask like how can you live on the moon?
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So how did you develop that ability?
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Was it something that was God-given? You were born with it?
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Is it something you developed and where did you start to develop it and when?
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Well, interesting thing is every one of us had this idea that we are born with certain things and then you easy to blame someone else for all your problem.
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I am like this because it's this it's in my genes.
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This is what I was dealt with the bad cards, right? That is an excuse.
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Because remember, your genes are not your destiny.
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Like we talked about in your health, it is your gene expression.
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You get to control your gene expression by changing your environment.
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Your environment controls your gene expression.
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Even though people say like I'm born with these genes and they are mutation that may cause Alzheimer.
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Now, think about it for a second.
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There are very, very few diseases that are genetic diseases and never want to undermine them.
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They have a special name.
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They call rare genetic diseases.
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And the reason reason they call rare genetic diseases is because they are rare.
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Most other diseases are not genetic diseases.
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So, when someone tells you you have a gene that is going to cause you Alzheimer, I ask them a simple question, am I born with that? Yes.
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So, this gene is I am born with, it sits in my body for 60 years, 70 years.
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One day it wakes up and say, I think I completely forgot to wipe out your memory.
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I'm going to do that right now.
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It can't possibly happen.
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It has to change expression of it.
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That means there has to be a trigger that causes it to do something.
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And if you can take the trigger away, does it matter what genes you have?
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yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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So, the point is don't blame anyone except yourself.
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Including, I think I learned from you, don't tell someone my wife makes me angry or someone else makes me angry.
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Only you have that power to make yourself angry, right?
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So, to coming back to answer your question, nurturing or the environment changes who you become.
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And most people want to know there is, you know, is there a particular event that happened that made you different, right?
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But as you and I both know, life is full of experiences.
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Every interaction we have changes who we become.
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People think it's the last straw that broke the camel's back.
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And we all know it's the straws before that that broke the camel's back, right?
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So, my point I'm trying to make is that in a simple words, that every day the people you surround yourself with changes the way you think.
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So, the most important thing you can do is to find the people who uplift you.
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People who believe in you.
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People who inspire you to be better.
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Not simply tell you you are good.
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they push you to be even better, right?
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Everyday ask yourself, am I better intellectually today than I was yesterday?
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Am I emotionally better than I was yesterday?
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Am I spiritually better than today than I was yesterday? And grow everyday.
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Yeah, and and I can agree with you more.
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I I'm really glad though how you answered that question from a gene point of view.
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I didn't I didn't expect to go down that road and I really like that context of how to think about who we are and who we're becoming.
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And and you are right that it's not one event that transforms our life or it's not one moment, but it's a collection of thoughts and collection of people and collection of ideas.
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When you were young, what did you think big?
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Did you always have these lofty goals or did you have to learn to do that, I guess is what I'm getting is because and and who were you exposed to?
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Like when I grew up, I always say that in my area, I didn't really grow up around anyone who inspired or motivated me in my field of people I met.
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But, my dad would give me the biographies of people like Martin Luther King and Malcolm X and people like that.
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And those people became the people that inspired me.
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So, most of the people that inspired me were in books. Yes.
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They weren't anywhere else.
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Who were those people for you?
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Where did you interact with them?
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How did you connect with them?
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And how did they change the way you thought?
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You know, obviously as you know, I grew up in India. We were very poor.
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We didn't have, you know, food to eat.
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We didn't have place to stay.
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But, the thing that none of us lack really is imagination.
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And it's really let your imagination run wild while everybody is trying to contain you into what who you are and define you who you are and trying to protect you by telling you what you can't do, right?
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Everyone will say, "Oh, you are born in a poor family.
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Your destiny is pre-written.
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You can at the most become an accountant and go find a government job that will actually be there for your rest of your life.
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Anything you're trying other than that is you're going down the wrong path."
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And out of purely a good intention to protect you, they actually want to contain you to say, "That is not possible for you."
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So, they're limiting your belief.
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And what really interesting I found was my mom just was an You know, she's alive.
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She just unbelievable amount of faith in me.
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So, my dad will say, "You know, you will never go anywhere.
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So, why are you trying here?
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Just go get that damn degree in accounting or something so you can have a job."
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And my mom says, "No, no, no. He's very smart.
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He can do anything he wants."
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And then she would say, "Sky is the limit."
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And later I realized in my life that a sky doesn't exist.
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A sky is simply a figment of our imagination.
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And what she was telling me was, in her own way, "Your imagination is the only thing that limits to what you can do." Yeah. We create our own sky.
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Like when you go from here to the moon, you don't say, "Mom, I just passed the sky." There is no sky. Yeah.
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So, point is we create these imaginary boundaries for ourselves.
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I come from this background, so I This is my sky. I'm a woman. This is my sky. I'm a brown person. This is my sky.
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And everyone creates these sky until you get there and you realize that was all in my mind. It never existed, right?
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So, when I was young, I would look at the moon.
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And what really interesting to me was I am looking at the same object that the richest person in the world and he doesn't look at it any different than I can.
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So, I am that richest person in the world because I have the same power that they do.
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And in my mind it was about there's nothing that I'm sitting here when I look at that star that anyone else can do it any differently than I can.
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In fact, I can look at them better because I am sitting in a darkness and the sky is so much more beautiful than in a city with under the light you can't even see the stars, right?
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As I came to United States and then I started to meet and learn from different people.
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And as I continue to grow, I started to surround myself with people who had, you know, even bigger.
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I thought I was a big fish in the small pond until I realized there was a big pond out there and I was a small fish and then I started grow again, right?
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And I think, you know, a lot of people that have, you know, inspired each one of us have been the people who have gone on to change the industry.
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Now, obviously, you know, today you and I probably know most of them and we met them.
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But when I actually were being inspired, I I knew their name, but I had never met them.
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Now we get to meet with them and now you can at least look at them and say how much they changed your life.
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But I can tell you that the biggest inspiration for me or biggest mentor for me has been my own life.
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Life never stops teaching.
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It is us who stop learning.
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So, just every experience we have, if we keep an open mind, we can learn from every single person we meet.
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Even that homeless person, if you can give him 5 minutes of your time, he will tell you about his life story, what got him into where he is, and maybe hopefully you won't make that mistake. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
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Yeah, it's I've often thought that the people that are always learning in any situation naturally succeed in in whatever endeavor they have.
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And when I'm hearing you speak about these ideas which which resonate with me completely like very strongly.
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I start thinking like today the challenge is that we're not always choosing effectively and curating carefully who influences us.
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Because there's just so much influence.
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I was reading a study the other day that said the average human is exposed to 74 gigabytes of information every day.
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The average iPhone is 256 gigabytes and a fancy iPhone is 1 terabyte.
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Which means that 74 gigabytes a day, you know, give it like less than 4 days and you're already at a full storage of a iPhone.
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That's a lot of information and it's hard to know what's useful, what's useless, what's a waste, what's an investment because we're just inundated.
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How could you recommend to people to learn to filter and choose what to give I'll give you and I'll give you an a common example like you know, a couple of years ago it was like everyone was like you have to be in NFTs, you have to
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do this, you have to like, you know, and then everyone was like you have to invest in the stock market because now it's this and like then it's like oh you have to be an entrepreneur and it's like everyone's getting oh now you have to hustle we're in hustle culture. And so
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And so you see this like messaging that just fat messaging that just constantly pushes people and because people don't know their own values and they're not sure about what they really want from life, it becomes very easy to get distracted.
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How would you guide people into not getting distracted and knowing what is right to focus on?
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Well, I think you go back and saying why am I doing it?
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Let's assume but there's picking thing you want whether it's a NFT or a crypto or whatever. Yeah.
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How is that what I'm going to do is going to improve someone else's life?
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Would it improve a billion people's life because I bought NFT?
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If the answer is no, then why are you wasting your time, right?
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So, to me, the biggest thing to learn in life is curiosity.
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If you ask me there's one gift you could give someone you love the most, and I hate to say that, the biggest love I have for is anyone in this world probably be your children. Mhm.
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I mean, anyone, I think, right?
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Is your children are the one that, you know, they give you unconditional love, and you give them unconditional love.
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And the biggest gift you can give them is that.
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So, our job as a parent is not to take them to the water and make them drink.
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Our job is to make them thirsty.
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How do you make them thirsty?
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Is make them intellectually curious.
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Once you give the curiosity to the children, Mhm. guess what?
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They will never stop learning.
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They will always be learning.
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They'll always find their water, and they'll always be drinking.
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And that's your goal is to make them curious.
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And what makes them curious is to constantly think about what is possible, not what is not possible. What if it was possible?
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And the two most beautiful words in English language are imagine and what if.
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Imagine if this was possible.
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What if I could do it, right? And that's it.
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And then they'll constantly and become like a child. Mhm. Why? Why? Why it can't be done?
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Why if Why it couldn't be done before, right?
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And asking why makes you curious, and that's how allows you to dig deeper and deeper and deeper.
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If I may continue on that charge, Jay, I want to talk about, you know, as I said, I have three children.
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And I want to talk about them for many reasons.
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One is to show people what really matters in life.
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It's not just simply about leaving the better world for our children.
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It's also about leaving the better children for the world to continue to go where not only you get to push the humanity forward, you actually have trained them and made them curious enough for them to be able to continue to push the humanity forward, right?
27:19
So, I have three children. Our oldest is 32.
27:24
He went to Wharton when he was 17, he started his first company.
27:26
And that was simply about helping young entrepreneurs as a nonprofit to help young entrepreneurs find mentors for them so they can be successful.
27:37
And his reasoning was, "My dad brought me mentors, and these kids did not have that opportunity, so I'm going to create it for them."
27:44
Now, imagine what happened.
27:45
He could call anyone in the world and say, "I'm I want you to help these young kids."
27:54
Nobody says no to helping someone.
27:54
In the turn, he built one of the biggest network he could find of the most influential people.
28:02
So, when he started a for-profit company, everyone wanted to be part of this, right?
28:06
In fact, just today, my son was oldest was on CNBC and Bloomberg announcing that he's solving this problem that all his all the kids of age were suffering from.
28:17
I go, "There are two problems.
28:21
I graduate, I can get a job, and generally decent enough job where I can actually find an apartment, but I don't have the money to pay first month rent, last month rent, and security deposit."
28:32
And he said, "You know what?
28:32
What if we don't have that and simply spend $5 a month on insurance and insure the landlord so you don't have to have a deposit."
28:39
And he started that company. Wow.
28:41
Then he realized that everyone was complaining and say, "That's great, Ankur.
28:46
We keep wasting our money on a rent. We get nothing for it." Right? I got to buy a home.
28:50
He started this company called Bilt, B I L T, Bilt Rewards.
28:55
And just I was posting on my Instagram, he announced today he raised 150 million at 1.
28:59
5 billion pre-money valuation.
29:02
The reason I'm talking about, not the money, is what he did is so phenomenal.
29:06
He came up with a concept of a credit card where you can put a rent on a credit card with no credit card fees, no annual fee.
29:13
Normally, when you put something on a credit card, you pay 3 and 1/2 2 and 1/2 3%.
29:17
He convinced the MasterCard to waive that fee for rent.
29:23
And then, he's able to now earn points on something you haven't paid anything, and you can use the point to actually buy a home, down payment for a home.
29:33
Or use one-to-one on any airlines, on a hotel, on Expedia, on Amazon.
29:36
You can use the points to earn the points on rent and with no credit cards. Okay, what's happening?
29:44
Landlords love it because they're able to bill you on day one, day two they have the money.
29:48
You as a renter are not paying a dime more, and you're 21-day float to pay your credit card bill.
29:57
In turn, you earn the points that were completely wasted, and now you can travel or you can use them for next month's rent, or you can use them as a down payment on a home.
30:08
Solving the problem that impacted all these people, in turn he created a great company.
30:13
Our daughter Our daughter Priyanka went to Stanford, Stanford Stearns Fellow, Stanford Mayfield Fellow.
30:20
Only cared about women's women's education, women's health.
30:24
First company she worked removing gender bias from hiring using AI.
30:31
Started a company called Evvy, E V V Y, women's health company.
30:36
And just today Fast Company recognized as the fastest and the most disruptive company that she started a year and a half ago, right?
30:44
So, she's completely changing the idea of how women's health.
30:48
What I did not realize what she told me is until about 20 years ago, women weren't allowed to be in a clinical studies.
30:57
That means every drug we have were never designed for women.
30:59
They're only designed for men.
31:01
And no wonder these drugs don't even work for women because they were never on a clinical trial.
31:04
And she's changing that industry. Wow. Right?
31:08
Our youngest went to Stanford, became a Schwarzman Scholar.
31:12
And now he's solving the problem of home mortgages. Right?
31:15
Again, it doesn't matter.
31:17
The point is they find the biggest problem and they realize they can go out and solve it.
31:24
And why is it how did that happen?
31:24
And then you don't have kids yet, but one day you do, I'm going to give you some of the parenting lesson because I have 32 year 20 year 25 I'm very open to that. So, here's what happens.
31:38
These kids were growing up on an affluent family, unlike I grew up in a poor family.
31:44
We told them their our love for you is unconditional, but our approval is not.
31:50
That means I'll always tell you I love you, but I will never tell you I'm proud of you.
31:54
To be proud of you, you have to do things that make us proud of you.
31:56
And I told them that we will be proud of you when you do things that make other people's life better.
32:04
That means your success is never going to be defined by how much money you have in the bank.
32:10
It'll be defined by how many lives you improve.
32:13
They may when they were young, they would say, "Whatever, Dad." But guess what?
32:16
Every one of them remembered what Dad wants.
32:18
And they may they want to make you that their dad proud.
32:23
And I told them that I say, "I'm proud of you when you do the things that make us proud."
32:27
We told them that their self-worth doesn't come from what they own.
32:34
It comes from what they create.
32:36
That means you own a lot, but you haven't created anything, you're still a parasite on society, right? So, don't be a parasite.
32:44
And ultimate goal of the children was always for them to focus on what can they do and make them believe nothing was impossible.
32:55
So, I remember when the old kids were born, I was running a very successful company.
33:00
And instead of when I retire when I sold that company and I realized I they were very young. I had two choices.
33:07
I could sit at home to say, "Hey, my kids are young.
33:12
I want to spend time with my family."
33:15
Which is a normal thing to do.
33:15
It occurred to me what are what would they be thinking?
33:21
So, imagine if I had told them it's not about money, but dad just made a lot of money and dad is now at home.
33:26
When they go to ski school, what do they see?
33:29
Dad sitting on the sofa watching CNBC.
33:34
They come back from school, they see dad is still at home.
33:36
And dad tells them, "Go to your room, work hard, finish your homework, hard work is what it takes, and money doesn't matter."
33:44
And they say, "Oh, I watch my dad sitting on the sofa.
33:49
When I grow up, I want to be just like my dad.
33:51
Sit on the sofa and watch TV."
33:55
And because dad has money, he can do that and that's what I'm going to do.
34:00
Instead, what they saw was dad he started a second company.
34:02
Dad he started a third company.
34:04
Dad goes crazy, we're going to go to the moon.
34:06
Dad, no private company has gone to the moon, you're crazy.
34:10
Well, let me show you how that's done.
34:12
Dad turns 58, dad wants to start a health care company.
34:15
We're going to make illness optional.
34:16
Dad, it's time to retire.
34:18
Well, I haven't showed you how it's done yet.
34:21
Right, point was they realized at the end of the day that dad does it because he loves what he does.
34:26
He doesn't care about making money.
34:29
He does it because that's what brings him happiness.
34:31
And anything difficult can be solved.
34:33
And that's why every one of them is taking on audacious challenges because they see the dad do that.
34:43
So, while we tell our kids what to do, we never show them what to do. Right? Yeah.
34:51
Yeah, I mean, congratulations by the way, and it's amazing to hear about these incredible new companies coming into the world, so needed, so powerful, and so beautiful to see so many purpose-driven companies coming into the world, especially in a world where we're constantly hearing everyone wanting to build a billion-dollar company and everything, which is just It's such a It's It's driving me nuts, like Yeah, same. Yeah.
35:15
everyone who's listening to it, if I may say, should go to Evvy, EVVY, and if you are a woman, please sign up for Evvy.
35:22
It's a women's health company using vaginal microbiome.
35:23
And the reason I say that is I want her to realize that these are the problems she can solve.
35:29
Her generation is the first generation that had a shot at solving problems that our generation failed at failed women at them, and she can solve that. Yeah.
35:41
Yeah, I know, that's incredible.
35:41
Yeah, and I will put that We'll put that link into the into the show notes as well, so that people can access it.
35:48
I guess when I when I'm listening to you right now, you you raised a few points then, I was thinking that you gave the example of dad watching TV.
35:58
And I was thinking that so much of our society today has been And and actually going back again, you talked about the two most important phrases, like imagine and what if. Yes.
36:08
So much of our society today has become numb Yes.
36:11
to curiosity and imagination because we simply watch TV. Yes.
36:16
Now, TV and TV shows and movies can be incredible for imagination if we watch them in that way because the people that made them are very imaginative.
36:23
The people that made them are very creative. Yes.
36:27
But what's really interesting is that when we simply subject ourselves to sitting in front of a screen Mhm.
36:33
and let those images come to us and we don't use them creatively, we actually become numb. Yes.
36:39
And I find that the majority of media makes us less creative, less curious, even though the people that made it are curious and creative. correct.
36:48
So, I guess so many people feel like at the end of their work day because they wake up, they do something A lot of people do something they don't love. Mhm.
36:55
A lot of people maybe do something they kind of like. Mhm.
36:59
And then by the end of the work day when they get home, they just want to switch on the TV to switch off. That's right.
37:03
And it's like switch on the TV, switch off your mind. Yes.
37:06
And then that's how the next few hours pass.
37:07
How do people find the the energy, the ability to say, "Actually, you know what?
37:14
I'm going to use this time to be more curious, to be more creative because that's going to lead to a better world for me and for others."
37:19
Well, first of all, no one should be doing things that they don't enjoy.
37:25
So, I have a very simple rule in my life.
37:29
I just say that I wake up at 4:00 a. m.
37:31
And the day I feel when I wake up at 4:00 a. m.
37:34
, I'm not jumping out of the bed, that means I'm doing things I don't enjoy.
37:38
So, rule number one, when you wake up in the morning and if you're not jumping out of the bed, you should quit what you're doing because that's not your calling.
37:45
When you find your true purpose, find your you know, north star, you can never ever just lie down because you're so driven to solve that problem.
37:57
If I may say, you know, a lot of people talk about passion.
38:02
I think that passion is for hobbies. Passion is for losers.
38:04
The true winners have obsession.
38:08
Obsession to solve the problem, not obsession about things, obsession to solve the problem.
38:16
When you're truly obsessed about solving a problem, you go to sleep thinking about it and you jump out of the bed wanting to do it.
38:22
And that to me is find something that you're willing to die for and live for it.
38:28
Find something that you're willing to dedicate your life to solving and then solve it, right? Yeah. Right?
38:35
And you know, a lot of people give up because they are anytime you do something, there are going to be the times that things do not working out exactly what you expected.
38:43
And to me, that's a sign of you are alive.
38:46
Because you're the only way you know when you're alive because you have a heartbeat and the heartbeat goes up and down and up and down.
38:54
And when it's a smooth, you're dead.
38:56
So, if you're looking for a life that's a smooth life, you're looking for a life of a dead person.
39:01
Find things when they're going up and down that tells you alive.
39:06
When you are down, just hunker down and know that the next beat is going to be up.
39:12
And when you're on top of that beat, never become too arrogant because always remember the winter is coming and winter shall come, right?
39:21
And that is the life is that most people spend their life thinking they need to make money, so they do something they don't enjoy. Guess what?
39:30
When they come home, they cannot enjoy because they wasted their life doing things they don't enjoy and they turn the TV on as you say to switch off their mind.
39:39
And now they're being bombarded with the most If you're watching news, unfortunately, it's all about negativity for many reasons.
39:48
Our mind, our amygdala is looking for negative news.
39:54
So, negative news catches our attention and that's the reason newscasters know to get your attention. If it bleeds, it leads.
40:00
They want to talk about all the negative stuff.
40:02
So, you're bombarded and now you're even more negative than you were at work.
40:07
And the thing in life is to get yourself out of that mode.
40:14
Not only find your purpose, but truly be grateful for the life you're living in.
40:21
Many of us have, you know, culturally or, you know, or sometimes religiously, we are told, "Before you eat, do the great do grace or do the, you know, prayer." Why is that?
40:33
The reason it is, Jay, is that your body, when it's in the fight or flight response, it stops the digestion.
40:43
You cannot digest your food because, remember, the reason your body used to be in fight or flight response because the tiger chasing you.
40:47
And at that point, body says, "You don't need to worry about digesting your food."
40:51
It shuts down your immune system, by the way, because you don't need to worry about immune system because you're going to be lunch for someone else.
40:57
Or if you survived, then everything calm down and back to normal.
41:01
Today, we live in this world where when we are at work, our boss is stressing us out.
41:06
We come home, your spouse is stressing you out, and you're constant in stress mode, and you're constantly in fight or flight response.
41:14
And then we eat food in the fight or flight response. It doesn't get digested.
41:18
We Our immune system is not working, so we get more sick.
41:20
And then we blame everything on the society.
41:27
And all it takes is find the job you love.
41:31
When you come home, be grateful for what you loving family you have.
41:34
Give them the love, and in turn, you will receive the love.
41:39
And I was just reading about the new book, Jay.
41:41
I got You got to tell me about more about the book on this love.
41:45
If you can go figure that out, everything changes because then when you have love, you're always in the sympathetic parasympathetic mode rather than the sympathetic.
41:55
Yeah, that's such a great answer.
41:57
I love the idea that you're saying that we're living in a constant state of flight of fight or flight, in a constant state of stress. Yes.
42:05
And so, pretty much every activity we do is in a state of stress. That's right.
42:11
That perspective of finding what you love is so needed yet so hard and also different at different times.
42:19
Like I remember when I was at college and I worked Sorry, even before college when I was at school.
42:26
I worked ever since I was 14.
42:26
My parents always wanted me to get a job and I'm very grateful that they set that up.
42:33
And so from the age of 14 I was working. I delivered newspapers.
42:35
Then I worked at a grocery store.
42:39
And then I worked in retail and then I was a tutor. I I was always working.
42:45
And I never enjoyed going to the grocery store.
42:49
But I learned valuable skills there that I still use today even though I don't work in a grocery store.
42:55
And what I found is that What skills did you learn? Sorry?
42:59
What skills did you learn? At a grocery store?
43:01
I had to Part of my shift was I had to whenever a the truck would come with a delivery I would have to get one of these handheld pallet pullers go into the back of the truck, put it underneath the pallets, lift it back up and pull it out and then stack it. Now I hated doing that.
43:19
Like I absolutely hated doing that and I would try and avoid it at any cost.
43:23
But that genuinely I believe gave me the skill or the ability to do things I don't enjoy doing for something useful.
43:32
In the sense of like I didn't enjoy doing that task.
43:34
I didn't love doing it, but there are so many things that you have to do even when you're building your purpose that you don't want to do that specific But you have a purpose.
43:45
At the grocery store I didn't have a purpose, but I at least learned to be able to have a discipline of when it's your turn, you got to show up.
43:52
You can't just tap out and say I don't want to do it.
43:54
And again, these are small skills.
43:56
These are not But I definitely knew I pretty much knew everything in every aisle.
44:00
Like I I knew where it was.
44:03
So if someone asked me, "Where do I find bread?" I knew it was all 21.
44:06
Someone new And that simple idea, like today when I'm sitting down and interviewing or I have to prepare, I can pretty much sit down and memorize things fairly quickly.
44:15
And I don't think memorization for exams is good, but memory is useful in life. For so many things.
44:23
And so now when I read books, I can memorize what's on a page.
44:24
I can get back to that page because I feel there was a lot at that time.
44:28
So, I guess what I'm saying is that even if you don't love what you're doing, you can learn to love something about it. Love it.
44:37
Because you can extrapolate a skill that will be useful when you find your purpose.
44:42
And so, I found that a lot of jobs have not been I've worked so many jobs that are not Today, I live fully in my purpose, so it's it's much easier, but I've lived so many jobs that weren't in my purpose, but they've all taught me something that is now useful.
44:56
But my point that is isn't I think what you said is I think I want to just double-click on that is that even the job that you're doing, find something about that job that you fall in love with. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
45:07
And I think we agree is what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
45:09
Yeah, and I just want to clarify that for people that even if you're doing something where you don't love the whole thing, and you may not be in a financial position or a family position to quit your job, at least for now, look for the thing about it that you love.
45:24
Because that will always stay with you.
45:26
And so, I I love the direction in which we're going, and I'm glad that we're talking about life.
45:30
We're talking about curiosity.
45:32
We're talking about how you set your kids up.
45:34
How do you think you would have responded or when your kids were younger and maybe they weren't so externally successful and they they almost may have had some pushback? Of course.
45:47
I'm wondering if the kids had any pushback. Of course they did. Of course they did.
45:50
Because I feel like I don't know any kid who doesn't think Kids grow up thinking their parents are not cool.
45:55
And then when they grow up, then they're like, "Oh, no, my parents were right.
45:58
They they are much more cool than I thought they were."
46:01
Can you tell us a bit about some of those moments where the kids kind of didn't agree with your philosophy or theory, and what did that look like?
46:09
Well, you know, a lot of these times when the kids, like for example, when we're talking about that your success is all about the number of lives you improve, I remember my oldest son said, "Whatever, Dad."
46:21
And then he walks, you know, he says, "Dad, at the end of the day, money matters."
46:25
And I told him, "It only matters when you actually believe it matters.
46:30
Because most of the time you don't need much for it to matter.
46:33
After the basic needs are met, after that it's all It doesn't matter, right?"
46:41
He and I would have a lot of discussions, say, "I want to buy this pair of shoes."
46:43
And I said, "I don't think that makes sense for you to be owning a $200 pair of shoes at this point."
46:50
And he said, "Dad, I'm going to go get it, and I'm going to go earn it."
46:51
And I said, "Sure, if that's what you want to do, that that's what matters to you, go do it.
46:58
But I would rather have you spend that time in learning new skills than trying to go do some menial job because you want uh you want a pair of shoes."
47:06
And that was very interesting, and I think uh maybe I want to just expand on that.
47:12
A lot of parents, even the successful parents, would say, "Oh, I don't want to give my kids things to spoil them. I want them to work.
47:21
I want them to go do the menial tasks so they understand what the money means to them."
47:29
And what I think to some extent, you know, people may disagree with that.
47:33
My philosophy was very different.
47:36
My philosophy was, "My job is to teach you the as many things as I possibly can, and once you learn those set of skills, those are the skills you'll have for rest of your life.
47:48
That means instead of going out and earning money to pump the gas, I'd rather have you go out and take a summer courses, and I'll pay for it, right?
47:56
I would rather have you go and do internship at some place where you can learn something and not focus on making money.
48:02
Even if it's unpaid, but that's a skill you want to learn, go do it even if it's unpaid.
48:05
So, it's always about learning, learning, and learning.
48:11
And the best example I can give you is something I think you'll find funny.
48:14
When my daughter was 16 years old, she comes to me one day and said, "Dad, I know you love science and technology.
48:20
I have found my passion, and that's what I'm going to pursue, and I just don't want to do anything to do with science and technology."
48:29
And at that point, most parents would say, "Sweetie, tell me what your passion is and I want to help you with that."
48:32
My response to her was, "You're too young to have a passion.
48:37
Dad hasn't done his job of exposing you to everything, so you don't even know the things you don't know.
48:45
How can you tell me you don't like them?"
48:48
So, I say So, she said, "Dad, what is it you want me to do then?"
48:50
And I said, "Sweetie, what I want you to go is to go to Singularity University.
48:54
I want you to learn about nanotechnology.
48:56
I want you to learn about genetics.
48:59
I want you to learn about artificial intelligence.
49:00
I want you to learn about everything." And she rolled her eyes.
49:04
And by the way, and that's the article I wrote on Inc. Magazine.
49:09
If you want to find it, it's called An Entrepreneur versus his eye-rolling teenage daughter. That's cool. I like that.
49:15
Now, she says, "Dad, I just You don't hear a word I said.
49:20
I told you I don't like science and technology."
49:21
And I said, "Sweetie, you don't know what these things are, so how can you tell me you don't like them?
49:27
But here is the word Here's what I can do for you.
49:28
If you promise me that you're going to go there with a open mind wanting to learn and wanting to like, what I would promise you is when you come back, you get to decide what you want because I have done my job of exposing you to things, and you get to pick what you want to do."
49:45
And she said, "Dad, if you promise me that, I'll go there with an open mind, and I'll do that."
49:51
She goes there, comes back, and the first thing she opens the door, she said, "Dad, I've made up my mind."
49:57
And my first words I remember was, "Oh, yes."
50:01
And she said, "I've made up my mind."
50:01
I said, "Tell me what what you want?"
50:03
I said, "Dad, I've decided I'm going to be either a geneticist or I'm going to be a neuroscientist."
50:10
I shook my head and I said, "Sweetie, at the risk of you changing your mind, can you tell me what happened?"
50:13
She said, "Dad, you're so dumb. I'm in high school.
50:17
I go to these classes in science.
50:19
I mix things and they change color and I'm thinking, why do I care?"
50:25
When I went to Singularity University, what I realized was I care about my passion is about women's health.
50:31
How can I do that if I don't even know how their body works?
50:35
How can I go change women's life if I don't even know how they think?
50:40
So, to me, the science and technology is simply the tools in my tool chest for me to pursue the purpose I want. Right? So, guess what?
50:48
If I had done what most parents have done, they would have she would have never been exposed to these things.
50:58
She would have never found her true love and world would have missed out on a great entrepreneur. Guess what?
51:02
When she graduated, she did first company using AI to remove gender bias and now she's using AI to improve women's health.
51:10
This is simply because we persuaded her to follow learn rather than simply do something that she wanted to do.
51:22
Yeah, I what I like about where this is going is that and and as you were saying this, I was like, I need to talk to another guest that we've had on about this.
51:30
I don't know if you know Dr. Gabor Maté.
51:35
And he's an incredible expert on child trauma and illness and everything.
51:38
And I I now know what I'm going to ask him based on this conversation.
51:42
I've always agreed with exposing yourself to as many ideas, thoughts, learning as possible.
51:49
And you might disagree with that.
51:50
And and it's so funny that I agree with your daughter because I thought I hated science at school. Yeah.
51:56
And then when I grew up and I started reading behavioral science and neuroscience, I was like, I love this.
52:03
I didn't know science was about the brain. Exactly.
52:04
I thought science was about like photosynthesis, which I didn't find interesting, or it was about cutting a cell open and looking at the layers, which I didn't find interesting. Exactly.
52:13
And then I was like, but if I knew at 15 or 16 that science was about you could learn about the brain Oh my god.
52:20
and how the brain works and how that I would have been glued.
52:22
I would have been Every every girl in the school would have loved you, Jay.
52:25
Everything would have changed.
52:27
Like everything would have changed, but I didn't know that, right?
52:30
I didn't know that because the way we were taught a certain subject was so ba- not even basic, but it was so specific.
52:39
Like plant I've never found plant biology to be interesting. Nor do I, by the way.
52:43
But but if someone told me about the brain, the human brain, I find it so interesting.
52:47
And so I I can understand I didn't I didn't have someone in my life who could have sent me to Singularity University, so I missed out.
52:54
But but but I can vibe with that.
52:57
So I think exposing yourself to as many new ideas, more learning, rather than trying to get too fixated too quickly is is a really good lesson.
53:05
And that's And also what you're saying that when people when children are growing up, my parents encouraged me to do so many things that were uncomfortable for me that that actually turned out to be superpowers.
53:20
And there were also things they encouraged me to do that were uncomfortable that did not turn out to be superpowers, and both are okay.
53:27
I I remember my parents really wanted me to go to the school that I went to high school that I went to because it was a great high school.
53:33
And if you asked any kid while we were in that high school, They hated it. We hated it.
53:39
But now when I look back, I am so grateful I went to the high school cuz I learned so much.
53:42
And now I look back and I feel so happy that my parents pushed me to do that.
53:48
Even with simple things, like my parents were really scared that I was going to be a shy kid uh because I was very quiet, I was very self-contained, I was very shy.
53:56
My parents forced me to go to public speaking and drama school.
53:59
I went for 7 years to public speaking and drama school.
54:03
Today my whole life is public speaking.
54:07
And I always think about them, like if I didn't go and I didn't like going I hated going.
54:11
It was so uncomfortable to stand in front of a teacher and learn how to speak and communicate.
54:15
But today my whole life is based on communication.
54:19
And I was thinking if my parents didn't push me, if my parents didn't encourage me, I would never be able to do what I do today.
54:25
So That's what That's what I was, you know, I think you and I talking about that.
54:27
It's not in your genes, it's the nurturing.
54:29
It is what they gave you, the lessons, and made you uncomfortable.
54:35
And sometimes what we find in life is that if you can learn to love the discomfort, the comfort becomes very easy. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
54:45
And and to constantly move in that direction that just because someone finds something uncomfortable that we should we feel we think that if something's uncomfortable, we should avoid it.
55:00
But the truth is that discomfort is where all the growth comes.
55:03
And I I again encourage people to try I think the idea of trying more things is is growth.
55:11
to more ideas and more things.
55:11
And I think that's something we connect the dots more.
55:14
Otherwise, you have no dots to connect. That's absolutely right.
55:16
And I think, you know, we tend to find people who are just like us because that's what people want.
55:22
But I think we learn a lot from people who are unlike us. Absolutely. Absolutely.
55:27
And and they did a study at MIT which showed that people were more creative, innovative, and productive when they knew people who didn't know each other. Yeah.
55:39
The idea that if you know people who know people who know you, you just create an echo chamber where you all have the same ideas and you share the same thoughts. Yeah, yeah.
55:47
Whereas if you have someone in your community who thinks differently or randomly or Yeah.
55:50
whatever it may be, it can spark so much more.
55:52
I I wonder, this is the the last area I want to talk to you about is I love the idea that you inculcated into your kids the idea of improving other people's lives, doing something good for others.
56:05
How do you find Have you also Were you aware also as a parent about how to help them with their personal mental health and their personal well-being? Of course.
56:16
Because what we find is At the moment we find either or.
56:21
We see people who sacrifice their own well-being for the well-being of others.
56:25
And we see people who are just struggling with their own well-being that they can't extend themselves to others.
56:29
I wonder if you were a parent that was conscious of also mental health and well-being and and personal well-being.
56:36
Well, at the end of the day, there's no parent, at least I don't know of any parent who don't want their kids to be happy. Right?
56:42
So, to me, that is just part of in loving someone unconditionally that you do anything to make them happy or anything for their happiness, right?
56:54
And I'm not suggesting you sacrifice.
56:59
You know, there's you know, I'm going slightly tangent.
57:02
There's things that in life that matter the most is that unconditional love that you can receive or the unconditional love that you can give.
57:10
And very few types of love that in my humble opinion that are unconditional are, you know, we may say we love our spouse unconditionally, but that is still, you know, it's not the same as the love between mom and a child or a you know, that love is just so strong.
57:27
I mean, there's no one can ever say that.
57:30
In fact, I think I last time I think when you and I talked about I may have shared this story that I still to me resonates the best.
57:37
There was this kid who wanted to join the gang.
57:41
And and the you know, gang members said, "I don't think you're ready."
57:44
And he said, "No, I'm ready to do anything you want."
57:48
And he says, "If you are really that ready, what I would like you to do would be to show me that you can do anything that needs done is to go take your mom while she's alive, cut her heart, and bring the beating heart back to us.
58:01
Then we know you can do this."
58:04
The kid says, "I can do this."
58:04
And goes there, literally stabs her mom, takes the beating heart out.
58:08
And then he is walking out, he stumbles and falls down.
58:13
And the heart and the he hears the beating heart say, "Son, are you okay?"
58:18
That unconditional love her mom says the only thing that matters to her was, "Are you okay?" Not what you did to me.
58:23
And that kind of unconditional love always brings the tears to my eye. Mother didn't care.
58:30
She simply wanted to make sure that my son was okay. Right?
58:34
Because he stumbled and fell down, right?
58:37
To me, when you want to do things for your children, sometimes the children may not think it is good for them.
58:42
And it is your job to be an adult and say, "In the long term, it is going to be good for you."
58:50
Whether it is sending you to the school or speech you know, or going to the public speaking.
58:55
But at the same time, you wanting them to be a mini version of you is where I think parents go wrong.
59:03
The kids should not be molded to be another mini-me. Right?
59:05
And that mini-me concept happens more often than we want.
59:11
The kids of the lawyer become lawyer.
59:13
The kids of the doctor becomes doctor.
59:15
Kids of the teacher become teacher because they all try to make them to be themselves.
59:18
What I think you and I both agree that our job is to expose them to as many different things as possible.
59:26
Give them as many dots as they can.
59:29
So, someday they're able to connect these dots and create their own canvas.
59:34
And give them that open canvas that they get to create.
59:37
And they can only create that canvas when we give them also the curiosity and imagination.
59:45
So, they can create whatever they want to create.
59:46
And give them that inspiration that is nothing they want to do is impossible.
59:54
And the only thing that's impossible is the one they believe is not possible.
1:00:00
That means they get to decide what is possible and what's not possible. No one else can decide.
1:00:04
And the ideas when they are different, it's okay to be different.
1:00:10
Because when people tell you it's crazy idea, those are the ideas that are worth pursuing, right?
1:00:17
That when someone tells you it's a crazy idea, it is an audacious idea that you can go out with, right?
1:00:24
But what you don't want to be doing things is is to simply live a comfortable life and live a smooth life, right?
1:00:33
That is to me the day you stop learning is the day you start dying.
1:00:40
Naveen, it has been such a pleasure talking to you as always.
1:00:42
Uh I want to let everyone who know everyone who's watching or listening know as well.
1:00:45
If you want to know more about how Naveen thinks, grab his book Moonshots.
1:00:49
If you're someone that wants to set goals, if you're someone that wants to set audacious goals and try and achieve them, Moonshots is the book for you.
1:00:56
If you want to find out more about your gut microbiome, the company is called Viome, v i o m e.
1:01:02
We will put the link in the show notes as well if you want to get a gut test done to understand more about everything that we just spoke about from that perspective.
1:01:11
And the third is Evvy, uh about women's health, which we will also add into the show notes.
1:01:15
Naveen, it has been uh a joy sitting down with you again as always, my friend.
1:01:20
And uh every time I sit with you I definitely feel I can be a little bit more audacious.
1:01:24
I feel that I'm always being mindful of my gut when I'm with you and today I'm also really really happy that I feel the message that has really come through is whatever we do we have to do it to improve the world around us and continue to serve humanity at large.
1:01:41
So thank you from the bottom of my heart for coming on today. It's been a pleasure. Thank you again.
1:01:47
Well Jay, I just feel you have always been on purpose and I just love spending time with you and I hope to to see you again soon. Me too. Thank you again.
1:01:53
If you love this episode, you'll love my interview with Dr.
1:01:57
Gabor Mate on understanding your trauma and how to heal emotional wounds to start moving on from the past.
1:02:06
There's a difference between being alone and being lonely.
1:02:08
Alone is just a fact and that we can embrace and make decisions about. Loneliness