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is [Applause] oh god and then i beat them have you heard the middle section of that song no i've heard the album oh yeah that's the craziest record you've ever made first the first death growl ever on amusement it's very good
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yeah it's very authentic too well yeah which is very hot it's very difficult yeah it's tough it's tough it's really hard man it's hard to do that then go back to falsetto did you ever try and be a screamo guy did you ever try and do a chino or you just
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didn't have it in here it did it it just came out like a high-pitched falsehood whale like whenever i go loud that's where it goes yeah it can i mean you imagine how dave grow i mean how does he do it i mean how was it like night and night out over so many
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decades he goes on there and he's just like well yeah wait how does he i think i think a good volume of alcohol helps it doesn't it really does yeah i've noticed if i'm hungover or boozed a lot if i go for my big notes they sound a bit more like um
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acdc or something when was the last time you did a show with a hangover is it even a reality i think i stopped drinking before shows like maybe late 2000s yeah because and you know i i did other things as well like and it was kind of like i'd look
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back at my performances and go what the hell was that that was terrible because it starts out and doing that in front of 400 people's suite doing that for a thousand people no problem even doing that in front of 14 000 people i got
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this 80 000 people yeah yeah exactly you want to keep yours together when you're doing that yeah yeah and uh so yeah well i had to knock booze on the head well well done losing your sh on this album oh thank you very much so you heard the
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whole thing of course good man it's crazy good man it's really really nuts it's like it like i said it's sort of it's everything we love about you there it is on tin yeah that's exactly what that's exactly what we did yeah we sort
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of went back through everything and we're like what what have we done that we could do better you know for example you just play kill be killed there that's like us going like okay if we're gonna go heavy let's go heavy heavy yeah yeah and the drums on that
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are interesting to me because again and it's no surprise to muse fans you guys have dabbled with um you know different sonic templates throughout your career certainly after the first three albums i feel you start to really explore with
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dom's drum sounds bass sounds um you're able to make electronic sounds and music fit well within the band infrastructure um but there's a lot of different drum sounds on this one it's not like you just fight you know you mic'd up his
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drum kit and said right spend the day doing some tracks and we'll see you in three months totally yeah yeah like he had a different kit for everything pretty much but there was like i was really pushing him on the double bass
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drum stuff i mean because that's like he's always been a single bass drum pedal so you can't uh play her so you don't get that which is like the real metal vibe and uh so we've got a double bass drum pedal and i was saying come on just practice
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that and like every day i'd come in and go come on just keep it going like somebody tells me that dom at this point in his life as hard working as he is isn't really into practicing yeah i mean but that was what was refreshing about it it was nice to
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actually find something that like we weren't good at i mean like actually try and get really good at the because metal it turns out these metal players are absolute geniuses you flirted with it for a long time i mean as a band i feel
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like as a band who has achieved the success you've achieved um you've almost been metal adjacent but this time on this album there are sounds that make it feel like you actually have committed wholesale yeah it also coincides with a
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little bit of my son being who's really gotten into like slipknot and stuff like that you know you can go on it yeah yeah and uh you know we never pretend to be able to touch those guys but hearing that stuff blasting on the
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way to school most mornings it's like that really kind of got into the album a little bit i love that man your boy just went out in one day and just discovered slipknot on his own and just said this is my sh absolutely isn't it amazing how
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kids just grow into their own space and we think we understand them and the next thing you know they come home and they're wearing makeup and they're listening to weight and bleed i think it's the greatest thing of all time i mean listen to this this
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bonkers by the way these guys are truly like mind-blowingly good man slipknot are truly one of the greatest of all time we jammed this riff a couple times on the tour yeah yeah yeah it's just this intro yeah but when it drops in it drops
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seemed like like it mugs you thoroughly [Music] that's been my soundtrack going to school for like the last year basically have a great day totally i love it man so the album starts uh will of the people the will of the people the will of the people of the
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will of the will of the will of the villa the will of the will you know we're very again it's been a constant throughout our lives together as fans and band for you to try to empower us to recognize the flaws in our society
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and ultimately do something about it absolutely yeah i mean uh we we we've seen it our generation has seen this huge change you know obviously it started with 2001 and just across this whole period of time we've seen this
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thing going on what is this thing it's kind of like something's going on in the west to kind of collapse a kind of division has been emerging and now we're dealing with like real external threats you know it's like it we just feel like we're part of this
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generation where something is going to go down in a major way and yet you live here still and you could live anywhere in the world and i'm here i like you i like come on i think you've got the edge i like i like being close to the edge yeah i mean it's
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like it's like something about l.a something like california you just really are you're literally on the edge of a massive tectonic plate i mean there's that but it's also just full of risk takers and just crazy people i love
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it i agree i agree it's funny a lot of my friends left in 2020 and 2021 yeah i went the other way i stayed i stayed and and and you know i remember when a friend of mine who moved back to new zealand said you have the most precious
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item on the planet right now you have a new zealand passport that's true it was true you could have you could why aren't you using it exactly yeah i feel like half of the tech industry has moved to new zealand and it cost them a
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pretty penny but yeah but i'm sure but my thing is like be part of the solution or at least yeah obviously yeah america's where it's going down like no question i mean it's like the division in this country is kind of like if that's not solved it's like a major
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major issue like threats from uh from you know major threats from outside are going to come in you know yeah and this place could fall apart so like so like trying to be a part of the solution or trying to like comment on it
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or even give people the ideas of how they could solve it i feel like that's the way to go yeah when you find yourself in a situation and you know the theme is developing over the album because you are a conceptual band i
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can't think of any albums that haven't had some kind of through line the last one felt somewhat optimistic and searching for solutions and other alternative realities this one you're really looking outside your window again yeah yeah it feels a bit more like
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closer to reality this time you know i think i think in the past a lot of our stuff's kind of delved into kind of like fictional dystopia like you know georgia well is actually just a couple of years ahead of every of the reality exactly yeah
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yeah i mean i i i'm a huge fan of like 80s dystopian films and then obviously you know i've written about uh like george orwell books and stuff like that in previous albums but i think sometimes through fiction you can explore things
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that are maybe a bit more harder to speak about on the nose so can you be prepared when you wake up one day and the news reflects the art you wrote for five years beforehand and how do you take that because it could just be chance but also i i i mean i don't i
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don't think it's particularly unique i think there's loads of artists out i think there's loads of people that just have they just feel it they feel inside and they feel something's not right something's changing you know there's a
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risk of collapse here risk of western civilization kind of the empire of the west if you know i mean coming to it coming to an end in one way or another uh it's had a good run you know since second world war to now the american empire and it's like
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seeing it kind of being threatened kind of falling apart from within it's just like a real tough thing to watch because we all kind of love it we love what it originally stood for you know i agreed and i still do i still believe in it i
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still believe yeah we still have faith that it can come through the other side but but you know that's you won't find much of that on this album [Laughter] but but the interesting thing for me and i don't think i've ever asked you this
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before is that in writing about resistance in writing about liberation in writing about the idea of people taking control of their destiny in in the face of of um you know conflict and challenge and and rights being taken away you run the
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risk of handing this out over to people who can choose to take it one way or the other yeah i mean yeah i mean getting getting to getting to the core of kind of political belief i'm like you know i'm very influenced by rage against
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machines i mean like i'm a huge fan of them and and through them i sort of learned a lot of different perspectives i mean there's different ways of looking at the word freedom basically that's that's the issue isn't it like there's
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freedom like like raging libertarian freedom but there's also freedom for a person to be able to own a piece of land and just look after their families i mean yeah so there's you know like how do you bridge those two gaps together
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okay so i look at a song i listen to a song like liberation and i'm like that is just right for the picking on either side of the fence and i just and i wonder sort of as the writer of the song look we all know that it really hurt it's a lot of great artists throughout
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their life when their music is co-opted in environments that they didn't intend it to be yeah how do you live with the fact or accept the fact i should say living with is easy but accept the fact that when you write a song like
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liberation that could be used in lots of different ways yeah i mean i see it as a kind of i want to see it as a positive that if there's people from both sides of the coin are coming together to listen to something or be a part of
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something maybe at one of our shows boy that's idealistic um i know it's idealistic but i mean it's i always try and have some kind of hope that these two sort of ways of thinking schools of thought which are opposing against each other in the u.s right now
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you know the question is like is there anything that can is there any common ground here that can be found to bring these people together what you're saying in their song is that the common ground ultimately is a common uprising i i
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think the common ground is that there's a need for systemic change you know i mean like in in the way politics is done potentially you know i think i think i think the democratic structure is amazing in this country but everyone
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knows the lobbyists and others everyone's less faithful there's so much corruption it's being brought inside and i think the one thing that one thing both sides have in common you know but you know hard right hard left they both
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agree there's a massive amount of corruption at the in the elites you know i mean yeah and i feel like that is something that both sides maybe can agree on so coming up with a new a new system of how to solve that i think is something that could
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bring both sides together it's awesome to hear so much fight and reflection and perspective going on your music at this point because as far as rock standing is concerned you've hit your own elite place you know if you there's every reason for
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you to check out um and to do music you want to do but in a different way and yet i feel like you've actually made probably one of the most divisive albums like like thematically you've ever made uh most what devices divisive oh really
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yeah well i mean i i said i don't see it that way i think i've always i've always been for uh systemic change in the way politics has done you know in the west um i'm not a socialist i'm not a raging libertarian i'm probably some kind of
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left libertarian if you know i mean like a noam chomsky type i think that's always been a general theme throughout it's you know i come from a i come from a background where you know my family went through a breakup my dad went
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bankrupt a recession in the uk single mum all that kind of stuff so i've seen what it is to be on the other side of the coin i've also worked my app and become very successful in my own right so i've seen what the advantages can be taken by those who are successful
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um trying to stay true to what i felt in that period in my teenage years where i felt like kind of you know i felt like my mum wasn't being supported that well you know opportunities weren't that great for us as a family i kind of like i've tried to
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keep stay true to that in through the music throughout the whole time yeah it's very fair and you know what you're right divisive is the wrong word what i meant was kind of more um agitated but you're agitating this situation you know
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divisive would suggest that there would be people who listen to this that don't actually agree with what you're saying it's the opposite of that no i think i think revolution is certainly coming you know i think that's the bottom line is
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we know whether it's just whether it just falls into a kind of civil war and chaos and some external threat like china russia takes advantage of that that's one path you know the other path is as a revolution which is i don't like
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this dot path but a revolution is often are replaced with authoritarian regimes of one kind or another that's why they're encouraging yeah yeah what i if i had to pick one theme that i'm fighting for is like we can we create a revolution can we get change
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here where it isn't violent and it doesn't lead to an authoritarian right yeah it doesn't exactly it doesn't it we don't lose more of our rights in the process that's the challenge that's the path that we have to try and make happen
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you know you said something really powerful i thought before which was you try to hold on to that feeling that you had in your teenage years when your identity was under threat ultimately because circumstances out of your
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control were guiding you down a path you didn't understand yeah yeah that's definitely yeah i've see i've seen what it is to be seen my mum struggling and stuff as a single parent and stuff it's painful because you can't do anything
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about it yeah you're a couple of years ahead yeah and then also seeing like what led to the bankruptcy in the family it was like a big huge recession some guy called george soros was short selling the pound and it kind of put the
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uk into recession like so a very early age i had this whole thing of like okay there's some there's definitely some parties at the very top here like you know extremely wealthy extremely powerful people that are kind of playing
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games with people's lives i mean and it's and it's like um i've always had that feeling that that needs to somehow be moderated well but you've done it from inside the whale what's interesting was you didn't try and just continue to
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throw spears at the outside on the outside of an object that isn't going to feel them you you got swallowed up in your dinghy and now you lived in the well and you've made change from inside those systems you've been successful you've worked
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your way into those rooms to have conversations with people who make great decisions and people who make really ones yeah and i wonder kind of like it you know if a big part of that motivation was realizing that actually trying to protest from the outside in to
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some degree is a little bit of a long and pointless road you mean are you asking like what i've seen by if i've been close to people that really are up there yeah we're conversing what ultimately motivated you to not want to
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reject the system you saw that was corrupt in the beginning but ultimately get closer to it not to say you joined it all right yeah you've made money you've been successful you're an investor you move in lots of different places outside of music you're
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fascinated by that people who are ultimately traumatized by that infrastructure a lot of them don't get closer to it yeah i mean there's lots of people that go on that journey where they kind of come from you know come
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from nothing if you like build those build them build their way up and there's plenty of there's some people which obviously start to embrace the you know that change and that shift there's other people that try to maintain what it was they learned and
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what they saw across that journey which one of you i'm trying to be the letter yeah yeah getting the band back together and making music you know it's not like you know it was in the beginning when you all sort of lived probably within
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five miles of each other and it was just like those first few albums that's safe to say that is probably the glory most innocent time fun and games you can have in a band right well the early years yeah yeah oh yeah yeah cause you
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literally like you live together you do everything together you're living in a bus together in the studios you live together yeah it's just like it's like a family do you mean so how do you make it work when you started to mature and grow
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and decide to live in different parts yeah you have to you have to respect each other's uh you know personal lives issues you know everybody has moments in time where they're just not that available people have like you know
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issues at home blah blah blah you know so you just gotta respect that and not let it and not fight it do i mean like you know if someone has a bad year just you know can't you know don't do the shows that are going to get in their ways to deal
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with what they need to deal with you know you're talking about friendship oh well brotherhood with us you know so friendship and brotherhood but it's like supporting each other um we've all you know at different points we've all had
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difficult periods where one of us is like you know i'd on a tour next year i can't do this you know and you just respect you respect that i mean whereas i think other bands maybe fight that and go well you can't do this at all and blah blah you know we'll get someone
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else in or something but you know chris once said to me chris martin said to me that you know bands aren't supposed to survive they're not supposed to last forever you know they're supposed to have a moment in time and then ultimately they give way to something
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else and life takes over and la la la and yet it's ironic coming from him because they're into their 20th and heading towards their 30th anniversary so are you yeah um for muse you know apart from that respect what are some of
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the other ingredients that you think have allowed you to want to continue to make music as compelling as this well i mean it is i i've chat with chris about it as well it's like there is there is something that ties you together if
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you've been together since uh teenage years it's hard to really put a finger on what that is it might be because you've been on that journey from coming from nothing to being very successful but they become some of the only people
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that you can actually really relate to and talk about what the journey felt like and the up you know the ups and downs all of us have been through relationship collapses together and stuff and we talked our way through that
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we're now like the longest marriage of any of us have ever had it's basically news like the three of us are like we've been together longer than anyone there's loads of other people peripheral people friends uh ex-wives and all those kind
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of stuff that that you know i don't say we've left along the way but you know the people that have happened along the way but the three of us as time goes on that they become the only people that are that know every single data point of
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your life i mean it's like you know well you know in a situation math-wise because i know you love math and is it you're now in a situation where you're well over half your life you spent today you've spent together yeah and every day that you spend together
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you're chipping away at the time that you weren't together so eventually when this all comes to an end majority of our lives alive it's been us two yeah exactly yeah yeah yeah i think we're almost there aren't we i think we are
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yeah well i think fiona yeah we started when i mean we knew each other when we were like 14. so yes you're well over halfway exactly yes we're already there yeah which is incredible seeing the guys change as well but just focusing on music again um
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and watching the changing of watching everyone grow as players i'm just going to say this outright and and i want you to correct me if i'm wrong but when you first got together you were easily the most sort of um prolific and and naturally gifted of the
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three i don't like using those words because i i i never i never saw myself that way but uh it's um i i mean i saw myself as like not good enough to be a classical musician or jazz musician i mean you know i may have gone down that road in my teenage years
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when i first started playing i was really into classical you know but i just wasn't good enough so so i i don't really see myself in that in those terms okay there's a million uh amazing musicians out there playing classical
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music right now jazz music and stuff that are just like way better than us you know what happened with music we came along at a time when with all respects to the grunge era like let's just say musicality wasn't necessarily at its highest point and
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that's kind of where i was able to correct my point for me let me let me phrase it a different way and follow on from that observation when you came out no one was shown off the way you could show off as a band like no one was getting on stage
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and playing the way you could play yeah yeah i wouldn't start with you again i wouldn't say showing off i've never been a big solos guy but to the point i think we were lucky that we came along at a time when you had okay yeah i'm gonna
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call foul because i need the guitar pass me the guitar where's the guitar this was what you were like when you used to come out this was a news show okay in the year 2000 all right [Music] okay okay fair enough what do you want me to do with this i
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can do it yeah yeah it's like have you seen tom morello i mean come on i know i know and we all know tom and we all know that ragi gets the machine uh ultimately they they were totally normally jimmy i think i think they were the only ones
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that were like they have used this north star we know that yeah yeah but in terms of like musicality they were in the 90s they really stood up like this for sure everyone else was playing power chords and like just but they were coming from
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zeppelin to me yeah yeah they're righteous ziplining yeah like i'll go with your point where you're going with this well my point is is that when you i've completed my train of thought that's why i love talking to you because
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it goes wherever it goes but my point is when you came out like there was no one who could do what you do there you go that's an even way of saying it like i remember seeing you live the first time in paris young band first couple of
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songs out and just thinking i haven't seen anyone this good this young play this well as a unit now watching everybody grow as musicians what have you learned about everybody including yourself as a player what is it is it that
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you get better is it that you learn to get worse in order to reach the core of the song like how does it change it's for me it's like about songwriting it's about trying to improve on that front you know that's been a long term sort of
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journey if you know what i mean because i don't think i was like naturally a songwriter when the band first got together it was just like as you pointed out it was more music it's like prague it's very prog stuff right a lot of jamming a lot of just noises and like
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and then we're trying to figure out where the words instrumental sections i mean and i think really like that gave way over time to me really sort of trying to focus on the actual song itself yeah like what is this about what
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is the lyrics what is the melody you know because i'm thinking about the whole thing i mean so i if anything i've kind of like let my let's say pure kind of like you know blasting out shredding scales and stuff i let that go kind of a long time ago in
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favor of actually focusing on the bigger picture of what the actual overall music sounds like the whole band and the whole thing you know so what's the song that you're most proud of on this hour is it ghosts uh that one's uh an unusual one for us i
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was surprised that dom and chris even wanted that on the album we actually talked about it and whether it should go on the album you know well because i i did i did like during the pandemic i did a couple things on my
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own just like kind of yeah yeah just on the piano the acoustic just stopped a couple of things out right yeah yeah and i this song was kind of like in my mind in that world you know i mean like more like a sort of just me on the piano um
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sing it alone and um but yeah no dom really liked it he kind of thought it was yeah it wasn't like anything we've ever put on album before and really actually you know one of the things we do on this album is we look back at all of our we
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looked at our set list we looked back at all of our old albums we thought like what's missing you know and one thing that is missing is a good a really good ballad you know i mean like it's like an acoustic track if you like yeah you know
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we've got something called unintended in the first half but that is actually like the whole band playing it's not really a totally acoustic number know you've never had a reduced a song that's just written and recorded and performed entirely on piano and um
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what really struck me about that was um i mean the lyrics are tough to hear you know someone who's like millions of people watched the dynamic about my family change in a way that i can't get close to it right i can't i can't be present so what
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i'm coming back to is fundamentally different to what i left behind in 2020 yeah and i really feel like you've captured that beautifully on this song oh thank you yeah i mean it was yeah it totally came out of the pandemic period
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as i said it connects directly to some of the other stuff i did during that time it was kind of like very it was lonely by nature the first time i ever kind of went down the road of like doing acoustic solo e-type stuff was because i
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was on my own in studio and no one else was around you know and that song kind of came out of that so it really is a direct kind of expression of that kind of isolation to loneliness and also that you know the tragedy of what's happening
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for so many people there was a lot going on as well in your personal life you're becoming a dad again you know um you were forced into a situation where you got the family time which is beautiful but at the same time the community
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around your family and my family and everyone as individuals on the macro level yeah yeah yeah the community is just like non-existent yeah we're not seeing each other yeah yeah usually i was just i mean it was amazing because it's just me my wife and the baby you
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know so we had you know it was just us i mean obviously loads of other people went through this but obviously yeah it was hard being away from our parents you know having a baby and stuff and like you know her parents were all in uh
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texas louisiana mine all in england and we had to you know we had sort of just being on our own it was just you know you know face timing to see our baby and stuff was was kind of an unusual time but but it was uh it was also lovely for
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us you know we felt very lucky you know to have that time and have time with the baby and everything did you go through anxious periods during this time uh from anxiety do you get the stomach churn and things like that i mean i get um not not
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in a serious way i'd say work related sometimes if you know i mean like sometimes i see a tour getting booked and i'm like blind i've got like 50 shows to do you know and if it actually gives me anxiety sometimes i'm
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a bit of a you know flying i'm not a great flyer yeah i'm not a great fighter yeah yeah talk we were talking before about um you're talking about some artists or something to do with the vmas whatever but it might reminded me of the one time
23:04
we had that moment where we we won the new band award at the enemy awards yeah i may have told you this before but we had we had this little only time we ever took a little propeller plane uh we had a gig we were opening up for bush in germany but we
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had to go and get this award record label got this little plane as it was going down the runway like one of the one of the uh engines blew up and it was like one on fire and skidded off the runway and ever since then i've been
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like i'm just sketchy and playing private planes uh yeah well exactly yeah so no more of that it's you don't fly private uh we do we do when it's all of us in the crew like it and a lot a large group of you know i mean on the last tour it's like
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yeah you're talking about like 50 people on a plane so it's like you know and we take the gear sometimes as well but yeah i mean we're approaching this time where all that stuff has to get cut down yeah i've only ever been on a private date a
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couple of times and i've never felt turbulence like it yeah it's rough yeah it's rough it's it's it really is like you're in a tin can although this wasn't turbulence this was just literally going down the runway one engine blew us up skid off on the
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grass and we were like we jumped out of the window with with our enemy award and welcome to our welcome to our new life as a as as a best you band of enemy whatever it was at the time but we've been on top of that we talked
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about we're talking about anxieties yeah you said do i get anxious travel like intense travel gotta get like that that does mean a little bit yeah getting back to bush in germany i think about i think no because i think because i mean i
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think you know there's so much that we could talk about and we're always going to come back to the new album but there's so much we could talk about that we've never discussed just singular moments that just get forgotten about
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right like what was it like playing with bush in germany that was that was a yeah it was a weird time it was it was gavin was on fire back then he used to say yeah he was one of the world's biggest rock stars yeah he was a shut off you know like you know
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the after parties were crazy do you mean um i'm not sure if that stuff would be allowed anymore but but he was uh it was a fun tour those guys i think it's just germany i think we did a couple scandinavian dates we opened up for loads of people back then
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we opened up a skunk and nancy on tour that was great uh we opened up for um chili peppers yeah it was really cool we really cut our craft there sort of just learning from watching other bands playing you know what was your favorite early tour
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you ever did with anybody it was it was a chili peppers one you know we opened up a foo fighters and chili peppers i remember because i came to a show in portugal and yeah foos were supporting the chili peppers we were the opening
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band and you were the very opening banner yeah but uh but we did like a leg around kind of uh midwest america wow and that was and that was amazing yeah it was really cool get to see them play every night both those bands it was like
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it that was probably that was 99 i mean that was real real early days and uh and i do think that actually changed the way we played you know i think before that it was shoe gazery indie shy kind of like how far we can go yeah yeah yeah
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and then after that tour it just it was like you know seeing flea like you know doing his thing and the energy he puts out there it was like you know we need to up our game massively yeah yeah yeah and you did and now i mean i read an article recently with somebody
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it might have been the guardian and said that when it comes to performing live um you know you are like the heavyweight contenders if there's a competition for putting on live shows like you you're like well we we've learned from in my
25:59
opinion the best like you know i've seen rage 15 rage against between 15 times yeah i just saw them twice this weekend uh it was unbelievable i was uh i even got a look from morello i was very happy with that yeah he gave me a little wave
26:10
and a look because our seats were kind of just to the side of the stage and i was like he was playing calm like a bomb and you know i think he might know it's my favorite song and i was like yeah i was like just going through it and he
26:19
gave me a wave and i was like tomorrow waved at me i just love that we can you know listen the the whole life that we we commit both of us in different ways committed to music right yeah this is like you turn fan into fun and then fun becomes
26:33
life yeah yeah and yet you can still find yourself at madison square garden and you're just that kid at reading watching rage again except this time he actually waved to you or as opposed to reading an idea i did not get away with reading
26:47
it as a fact uh yeah that was amazing loved it and uh yeah i still love going to shows you know i i went to see slipknot with uh with ryder and bing yeah when they played in la that was really that was really amazing um yeah i thought i saw lady gaga
26:59
actually and that was uh just i actually am a bit of a gaga fan i always have i always having a monster yeah i i'm gonna do that thing where i say i saw her play in front of like 500 people in dc in like 2007. i did indeed yeah yeah and uh always
27:14
from day one i thought she was just an absolute phenomenal yeah what do you love about gaga uh the theatric well i mean first of all she's just an unbelievable talent okay like she's a better you know she's an amazing pianist
27:23
singer she's better than me on both those things and i just respect that and i think she's amazing songwriter but then just the way she creates the visuals and the whole theater around the whole thing i just think it's amazing it
27:33
must have felt in some just in some way shape or form like someone had actually walked into your room you know not your room as in muse's room but the room you were in with a few other artists that kind of weren't afraid to be to put bring some theater and
27:46
performance and some eccentricity into this and not just be authentic right like oh yeah yeah yeah no i've always wanted to delve into like fictional theatrics and things like that with our show as well as the music i mean like i
27:58
think it's in you know we talked about earlier on like sometimes sometimes delving with dystopia you can get you can get more of a vibe across if you go straight fiction uh rather than like trying to say like oh like heart on your heart on your sleeve kind of this is
28:08
like you know this is what you know what we think politically but uh but yeah i mean she's amazing she's been amazing at that you know crossing that line between like what is fantasy and what is reality and i think
28:18
that's a great i think that's a great place to be as an artist you know yeah have you ever had a chance to kind of kick it with her and sort of sheer mutual kind of theories yeah actually i met her briefly she wouldn't remember but i met a briefly in
28:27
2007 in that show i think it's washington dc or something we were touring nearby and i i i said look we've got to go and see this show i love this singer she's going to be massive and the guys were like when's the show and the
28:38
rest of the guys was like what is this like they have no idea but i was like this is this is amazing like and um and i've never told anyone this but she actually had like i think she had two iphones or something like that that were
28:47
made into eyeglasses like video and i actually i totally straight up ripped that that's where you got that yeah yeah i was like cut to four years later i'm wearing video glasses that's just basically that is me doing my lady gaga moment
28:59
yeah but she said one thing to me like i remember was like real weird wisdom that she said to me we were just chatting briefly and she said she goes oh yeah i know me she goes she goes rock that's a tough genre man that's going to be a
29:08
tough genre and i just i just thought what was that you know that was like where did that come from um but it was true you know yeah so it's a yeah because she's a watcher yeah yes you know she's no no she's a real trend setter yeah you
29:20
know she's the one who would tell stories about going and sitting down with record labels and they would give her the menu and say order whatever you want she's like i'll have a glass of water [Laughter] brilliant i mean say no more yeah and
29:32
what a way to tell a record label i have the power there's nothing you can do to buy me yeah yeah that's good i didn't know that she's a cool cat um last time that we were here we spoke about a song called be a fact yeah that's a great title um i can't
29:47
remember i spoke to someone after about that song but who came in and i mentioned the subtitle that's the anxieties right there there you go that that song literally sums them all up i think yeah yeah because it's all in there it's like
29:58
a laundry list of like doom and gloom and holy i mean you've danced around these this idea of finality many times but you've never actually laid it out like this yeah i mean it's uh couldn't put one more song afterwards just going but
30:15
we're going to be okay kind of yeah the one before that the fourth order yeah okay yeah um yeah i know you know look i mean look at all the bands we've been talking about like slipknot um rage uh metallica like you know we're influenced by you know iron maiden we
30:33
grew up on i made and we in dom did when we were kids and it's like you know we've always been influenced by you know metal and rock and and delving in the dark side is what we do i mean like go in there and and you asked about anxiety
30:43
and that song is like almost just like one of those i don't have it very often but if i did ever did have a moment where like late at night i'm like you know i can't sleep and like all those thoughts start going around like what's
30:52
going on like you know all these natural disasters like all this stuff that's happening in civil unrest by blind it all just kind of like puts you into a panic you know that song was written in literally that moment you know one of
31:01
those moments you know what's really fascinating about that to me is being the father of two teenage boys and you have two and you have teenage children um you know we we have to sort of figure out how we kind of prepare them for this
31:11
reality um and tell them the truth but at the same time not not sort of leave them bereft of all hope yeah i feel like you've failed miserably with that song and i yeah well i i think i think i think part of preparing is is
31:24
being honest about what's happening i mean like you don't you want to be like completely delusional you know the secret is just watch all eight seasons of alone on on netflix and there you go that'll that will get you in the right place seriously i just started
31:35
watching season eight the other day and it's like have you seen it it's like a survivalist show it's unbelievable oh it's it's it's the real deal they put um they put 10 people out in in british columbia they're all like say 50 miles
31:46
apart totally isolated they've got their own cameras um um what those little portable cameras called yeah yeah you know i mean gopros like they've got all that stuff and they just literally have to survive on nothing they've got 10 objects like a
31:57
knife and uh you know whatever something else like a saw or something and they're left there and the winner is the one who's still there like months later the last one standing wins half a million dollars it reminds me of back in the day
32:08
in radio competitions back when 80s fm radio was the internet um they would put competition winners on a raised billboard competition that and you'd you'd basically sit up there and the last person who still up there after like nine months yeah yeah yeah yeah of
32:31
existing on like a piece of toast and glass of water would win like a mini cooper yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah but just have way more modern versions totally totally it's always like it's almost like uh like running man or something crazy a
32:42
little bit yeah so what have you learned from watching it uh you know what it was a it was a bad segue because it's kind of like it's you realize how hard all these amazing survivalists actually are you know a lot of them ex-military and
32:51
stuff and they're just like that they really know that they know this yeah yeah but then like and then but you see the mind game like we're talking about anxiety yeah uh the thing that makes the thing that leads most them to go home
33:01
the fastest is not really that they made mistakes or they didn't survive is that their mind just starts playing games and they start to like miss home his family bit you know isolation is like really bad so it's a really interesting show seeing
33:12
just the psychology of these people go from being like confident solid to like kind of like gradually like ah i'm not sure about this so what does it tell you is someone who's been writing about this from inside the inside the womb of
33:23
society for a long time um what does it tell what further information do you gain from watching something like that i i think it really matters yeah i think what really matters is uh jokes aside i say it's like it's that you know me myself
33:35
none of us are really that kind of self-sufficient in terms of like the ability to like get through really tough times you know psychological resilience i mean and i think uh i think that's something that you you're talking about
33:46
kids you know you're talking about our kids you know i think it's like you know living living in uh living in tech the way we do you know we're so reliant on it all like all it takes is like one solar flare and none of us will know
33:56
what to do jimin and um so stuff like that i think like having like having the ability to live a little bit more without tech basically that's what i get from the show jimmy yeah is that an ambition i yeah the kind of yeah i'm not
34:08
going to pretend that i'm anywhere near it i mean but uh but i've got like uh i've got a bit of a military thing in my family like both my grandparents were in the military my uncle was literally my cousin's a colonel in the army right now
34:18
i've always had this thing of like i wish i was a bit more uh kind of like a bit tougher and self-sufficient in that kind of way yeah yeah yeah and i think uh you know it's uh i think it's just a good skill to have i agree listen i mean i mean you know plants and
34:31
vegetables i mean plastic seeds yeah yeah you know learn to live off the land a little bit i think um that that that used to be kind of something that would be leveled at people in a sort of aren't you a little bit eccentric kind of way
34:41
and i think it's actually now a reality i think so yeah but also like again talking about like the extremes that we see the viewpoints i think one of the areas that they link up on is is kind of this uh you know against kind
34:53
of globalization of trade if you know what i mean like you know the idea that there is a bit more localized yeah and even just quality of produce i mean i don't even know half the sh that that food's gone through before yeah yeah
35:03
it's on my table yeah and again that's one of those weird things that it does actually i think to some extent unified both sides i mean like it's like oh actually you know we don't like this massive global production of food the
35:11
way it treats animals and agriculture and all the chemicals and everything it's like yeah i think i think just like learning a bit more about that and having more done locally would be good for everyone god it's just kind of overwhelming sometimes though isn't it i
35:22
mean if i was to sort of sit there and figure out how i was going to make even just a microscopic improvement in the way i live my life to better certain things i would have to draw like a white board a list of things interconnected
35:33
that would take up the entire space it's a lot you know it's like oh how is my decision going to affect you know to your point the way you know animal was treatment and the way things are how then how is that going to be connected to those carbon emissions and
35:45
how there's just so many links to things it can be a bit overwhelming yeah yeah it's it's it's like like size is most because i'm small i don't know i'm saying this but like size is the enemy i mean i think that's the thing again like
35:58
i'm interested by the things that everyone can agree on not just the you know the two extreme viewpoints but size is the issue corporations begin getting to a certain size where it becomes just unbelievably you know the the shortcuts
36:10
they take the way they treat employees what kind of stuff i think everyone everyone kind of agrees that we don't you know we decide like how can we moderate things yeah we don't stop people having a chance to create a big business and do great do very well but
36:20
at the same time there's they're doing well and there's becoming a trillion dollar company that controls like you know half the agriculture in the country i mean it's like there must be a middle there must be a middle way here
36:30
somewhere i mean where we could allow people to create entrepreneurial ideas and do very well but at the same time have some kind of checks on power and size yeah i mean and i think the same thing can be applied to politics as well
36:39
you know yeah god the political system though man talk about lacking faith i mean i i think if you if you asked 100 kids in school right now i mean i was a kid in the school yearbook what do you want to be it was either athletes rock star
36:51
or prime minister yeah totally and now i don't even think one person which is politics no no that is that is true actually that's that's worrying in its own way isn't it very well because if nobody the people that do go into it are the ones
37:03
who really shouldn't be in it yeah they're kind of like sociopaths it's he's doing good yeah he's uh he's done i think he dyed his hair green or blue or something and he's growing a mustache and a goatee it's gonna finally grow
37:17
facial hair yeah he should have dyed that as well i think it looks it always looks weird to me when you've got like green hair and another and a grey brown they should tell you when you start at rock school that dramas are the ones you
37:28
got to watch definitely definitely yeah the uh a couple years away from midlife crisis i think it's a completely green here and a mustache uh and how's chris uh he's doing great yeah all good yeah he's uh looking after his brood as always living
37:41
in the uk still eastern the uk yeah yeah they both are now yeah donald chris dom's pretty much more full-time uk than la at the moment yeah wow cool good for him yeah i'm trying yeah he he was the one that went the other way i mean like
37:51
that's why the 2020 thing is all about you know he actually got he wants to go back to uk i mean like he wants to go back there whereas i went a little bit like i think i'm going to stay here he was drawn to it yesterday yeah i think i think when all the
38:02
yeah when it started going down he was like i'm out not to try and make you anxious or anything but can we talk about touring uh yeah yeah yeah no actually looking forward to it got um i've got a few more shows this year i've got doing a few
38:12
little ones when the album comes out around october but we're just about to put together our big tour for next year so it runs from january through to july it's going to be our biggest arena tour in the u.s we're looking forward to that
38:21
starting we're going to start in mexico u.s canada and then finish in europe so it's uh gonna be great how does the lifestyle of touring change over time like you know what are the motivating factors beyond putting on a good show like how
38:33
do you stay balanced yeah you go through different phases you know when you're young it's just like the buddies together you guys just exploring the world yeah yeah partying girls all the stuff yeah and then and then you kind of
38:43
go through i was at a theater today it was like i think it's yeah and then you go through go through a period of like becoming tourists you realize you know after 10 years you're like you haven't seen anything in half of these cities like i've been
38:53
to berlin five times plus i haven't been to a museum yet so you start off partying for about 10 years and then you sort of become a tourist for about 10 years yeah and then narrating the 10 years where it's like wives and kids on
39:02
tour and that's actually a load of fun as well because because you've got your kids with you and all the kids like mucking around together and wanting to see stuff so it becomes more like a family affair yeah and your kids are old
39:11
enough now to be able to really appreciate and acknowledge what it is that you do versus when they're young when you've got those big headphones on their ears too right so she's oh yeah yeah yeah yeah you know bing bing's like full-on
39:20
into it i mean like he gets it he's down the front like loving it um but like when you're playing he's down the front in front of the barrier yeah now he's not he's not in the mosh pit yet i mean a few more years how old is
39:32
being he's 11 yeah he's 11. uh you got him at the right time i mean as a 16 and 14 i know if my 14 year old was down the front i was djing he'd just be on his phone like when can i leave um but bing's a fan he is now he was like when i was like when
39:46
he was like five or six he was really into it and then he thought i was really uncool he was probably right i think that for about five years and he started getting into more like pop hip hop and all that kind of stuff like what was
39:54
kind of big like the big kind of pop stuff um but then he got into hard rock again and i think he only likes our heavy stuff like he likes like killer be killed i think is the only one that he really likes on the new album because it's got double bass drum pedals he's
40:05
actually a really good drummer yeah yeah he can actually shred like on the bass drums like way but like even faster than dom i mean um it's not necessarily the tightest thing i've ever heard but it is like he can just literally do it i mean
40:17
that's awesome yeah do you think about their future in terms of like the life you've lived in music and the changes you've seen when you started to now you got a seat on the elephant ship with gandalf you got to go to the elf in
40:28
wonderland where money still matters and you made it now it's tougher right there's a lot more bands on you know on the mainland with more door smoking yeah it's at my point like yeah yeah that's what gaga said is right rock that's a tough
40:41
business yeah yeah so when you think about your kids moving into music he sort of just hands off with that like don't forget well i mean ryder's interesting he's like 18 right so he's and he's in a band i'm going to go and see him play on the 20th just around
40:50
here so yeah it's interesting in this perspective because like you know i don't know i think some of these younger kids like they're not as and they're not as like ambitious and they're like gotta make it massive in a big world they
40:59
really appreciate um you know what it is to just have a group of friends and play great music together i'm not sure if it's like a sort of is it generation z what is that generation like 18 i think we're back to a aren't we back to a
41:09
again yeah whatever that generation is like i feel like there's something going on there where they are kind of resisting a little bit of the kind of social media sort of seeking attention and being big type thing it's like i feel like there's something going on
41:20
there i mean i i just get this filtered through rider to me but i sense there's a little bit of a shift there where yeah kind of it could almost be like the emergence of what we saw uh like a different version of what we saw in the
41:29
mid early 90s you know like where you know the early days of grunge and stuff i agree you know jackson who's 16 um he loves the process yeah and every time he'll post something which is rare and i worry if it doesn't hit the
41:44
algorithm and find the audience i go into that like is he going to be devastated and he's like on to the next one yeah on to the next one like it's like there's a suit and i'm not saying this for every kid i know social media still plays a huge role in
41:56
heightened levels of anxiety and depression amongst in particular teenagers but within the arts it seems to have kind of plateaued and reached some kind of saturation point where it just doesn't have the power it used to i think so
42:07
yeah i think i think there's a younger generation now that are looking to be a bit maybe out of it you know i mean like in a bit sort of like you know this they can see through it for what it is it's just massive attention seeking and
42:16
selling products and all that kind of stuff you know my generation was like uh you know i'm still like i don't really get what this is all about i still you know i do it i mean but i still don't really like like it i don't really get
42:27
it i don't really it just feels cheesy to me it feels embarrassing it feels well yeah that's because you and i are from the same generation i'm a couple years older than you but i'm sorry mate you're on the same boat in the same ocean and uh and
42:37
we were brought up to some degree to crouch at the bar yeah yeah we were taught to let our work speak for itself yeah and our success arrive organically exactly not to over stretch ourselves into a place where you're showing off for attention 100
42:54
yeah that's it that's like the whole 90s thing i think was about that you know and i feel like oh i hope that i think like the younger generation is coming through is maybe resonating with that way of thinking a little bit you know
43:04
1991 to 1995. that was it that was it yeah that was the period that was the period where it could have so if it had just stuck yeah yeah i i kind of feel like it rolled on a little bit after that tiny tiny a little bit but that was the real
43:19
thing it was just keeping it real no pretentiousness like just wear what you want be what you want say you know say what you want and just kind of like it was just people playing music together for the fun of it really like you know
43:30
then obviously nirvana a few other bands like blue absolutely blew up because it became a scene and that kind of changed the whole thing i'm so glad we're still here man you and me are able to talk about your music yeah absolutely it's
43:39
been a while they were asking me in there like when did we first speak up did you were you xfm i was at exit is that when we first spoke yeah i think the first time we ever spoke was on the first ever music you put out and i went
43:49
to paris and you did a show with sol axe so we're talking 2000 or 99 yeah yeah early early like very early on um and maybe we did a quick thing on xf7 even before that but 23 years oh my lord and i remember you know because the uk
44:03
didn't know what to do with you at first oh they just i'm not sure they still do really i don't know a few wembley stadiums and a lot of you know in like three headline ratings three headline glastonbury's i think you're okay but it just it was funny you know
44:17
that um it took everybody a minute to figure it out but yeah i never forget that time you came on stage the nights it's like nice to side on here at wembley stadium and thinking wow the weirdos won for a minute we did yeah and you were
44:29
the dj right now i was in the dj that was a great night it was a kind crowd wow speaking of reading the leads man before we go um i just wanted to give you a chance to talk about how great reading in leeds is because we've just seen a couple of bands make what i
44:40
think is and i'm very i'm not one to judge man right or wrong it's your career you do what you want but i think they got bad advice um you know going out and playing at the vmas instead of choosing the festival where you're going to reach a lot more
44:51
people and give people a memory that they may go on and form bands out of no one's going to do that watching you mime at the video yeah yeah um so rather than get you to weigh in on that and and choose a side i just wanted you to talk
45:00
about your experience of reading elise because i'm not sure that that manuscript and and jack carlo truly understand how great it is yeah so what i mean so what happened did they both pull out or something is that
45:11
what happened they both pulled out and the problem is that they both pulled out and then went straight on the record and said it's because the vmas and it's like are you choosing commerce over fan and that's fine but that must be the generation before
45:21
generation a that we were talking about that's the z isn't it i think there's a z or something else or the y um yeah yeah that's that's not a good decision in my opinion yeah i would never have done that um and i think uh but then again to to
45:35
sympathize with the situation i don't know what deals they're on you know some of these bands are on i just don't know i don't know i don't mean i'll make sure my comment's not wrong here but yeah a lot of these newer bands have
45:43
gone like these 360 deals where the label like owns a piece of everything i mean they own a piece of your merchandise you're touring everything and so when they make decisions it's like you know what are you saying they
45:51
have a controlling decision i don't know i don't know no no but it can happen that way as my parents say it can happen that way i'd be i'd be surprised if they want to do like that but if they were that might explain why whoever made that decision for them like
46:02
has a lot of power i just think it all makes me sad as and i think it's less so for jack harlow because he'll run around and and there's a lot of opportunities for him that exists in a more of a meta space but maine is gonna coming from a place of real legacy
46:14
they are a brilliant rock and roll band yeah i've gone on the record and said that you know they're kind of helping me make up for all of the the the really misplaced judgment i i gave to the darkness first time right yeah
46:26
that's a really good call actually i was not kind to the darkness when they first came out and i and i look back on it now and i think can get us maybe they were ahead of their time yeah yeah yeah so i look at manuscript and
46:36
i'm like i learned from that i go man it's kind of a great rock man yeah maintenance can need reading in leads a moment at reading your leads in their legacy absolutely and this was the year to do it and now when they go back that first 10 minutes could be tough
46:50
yeah yeah i mean again it's like is this just us like remembering what what created this these whole scenes in the early 90s you know because reading back then was a completely different beast to what it is now you know but but you but you might
47:01
be right you know that mentality you mean you share that which is like having an element of authenticity sticking to your commitment sticking to your fans especially the real ones paying to come and see you in a show yeah it's like
47:10
that should always come above some kind of promotional activity like playing it look go and give mtv their flowers man but i just know manskin would have run that festival they would have been the moment of that festival they would have
47:20
had the best performance of the whole weekend and 80 000 people would have walked away going that's my band yeah and now you got probably 80 000 people either going who are they or them yeah well we'll see we'll see yeah it's like
47:34
it could work in their favor but who knows i'm so glad to see you this album is really a triumphant music experience it doesn't let up except for the rare moment that it lets up for the first time in your entire career that's a good one
47:48
and um and i just think uh on to the next thing no just as hungry as ever still loving the experience yeah of course yeah absolutely yeah we've still got ideas and things we want to do that we haven't done yet you know so excited for the future [Music] you