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5:02
>> Monday, September 22nd, 2025.
5:02
We are live from the TVPN Ultradome, the temple of technology, the fortress of finance, the capital of capital.
5:13
>> Sam Alman and Matthew McConnA defined the weekend in my world on my timeline.
5:19
Uh two former Joe Rogan uh guests.
5:24
Interestingly, only Sam Alman has done Theo Vaughn and only Sam Alman has done Tucker Carlson.
5:29
Uh Matthew McConna has gotten snubbed by those two.
5:32
Um, but hopefully we'll get we'll get McConna on Theo eventually, but until then, uh, Sam is the loan of the pair to >> do MCA on Theo.
5:46
>> It feels like a match made in heaven.
5:48
>> Um, Sam obviously did well on the show and uh, but they both were talking about AI and um, caused uh, you know, a stir, predictions, debate, and I thought it would be interesting to weave through it.
6:01
So, uh, Sam Olman kicked off with a post here. He says, "Time is money. Save both.
6:07
Easy to use corporate cards, bill payment, and a whole lot more all in place." He said, "Go to ramp. com." No, he didn't.
6:12
That's fake news, but we love ramp. com.
6:14
And so, head over to ramp. com.
6:18
>> No, what Sam actually said was, "Over the next few weeks, we are launching some new compute inensive offerings." There we go.
6:25
>> Because of the associated cost, some features will initially be only be available to pro subscribers. That's me. That's me.
6:31
Uh, and some new products will have additional fees. Interesting. Extra monetization.
6:36
Our intention remains to drive the cost of intelligence down as aggressively as we can and make our services widely available.
6:42
And we are confident we will get there over time.
6:44
But we also want to learn what's possible when we throw a lot of compute at today's model costs at an interesting at interesting new ideas.
6:53
So there were lots of debate over what he's going to launch.
6:57
Meanwhile, Matthew McConna was over on Joe Rogan saying that he wants a private LLM fed only with his books, notes, journals, and aspirations so he can ask it questions and get answers based solely on that information without any outside influence.
7:11
Can we play the Matthew McConnA clip?
7:13
Because he had a very interesting phrase.
7:16
I thought it was very funny.
7:18
He doesn't say he doesn't say uh finetune on this. >> He wants to log.
7:24
>> He wants to log it in. We'll hear it from him.
7:26
Let's go to Matthew >> interested though in a private LLM >> where I can >> upload, hey, here's three books I've written.
7:37
Here's my other favorite books.
7:37
Here's my favorite articles I've been cutting and pasting over the 10 years and log all that in.
7:43
>> Log all that in >> and here's all my journals, whatever the people and log all so I can ask questions based on that, >> right?
7:50
>> And basically learn more about myself, right?
7:52
I stand on the political spectrum, right? blah blah blah.
7:54
I'd like to >> No, that's that's what I'm would like to do, which is sort of a glorified word document, >> but it still would hold a lot more information than just Oh, can you not be asking it?
8:08
>> This is this is an important consumer.
8:10
>> This is the next market of consumers >> with the information I'd like to load it with. >> Right. >> Yeah.
8:16
>> Yeah. Maybe even like I'm saying in this in the words of belief in in the in the man I'm working to be and the man I love >> I feel like the current state of LLM are meeting his needs and that's really really important if you're open AI you want to become the biggest company in the world you want everyone to use your products >> it's slowly learning about me through
8:34
conversations then going oh I think this is what you like based on a conversation no I want the answers based on what I've uploaded it with only not from the outside world >> and he probably uses he probably uses Instagram and has has and Instagram is personalized does give him a an a unique view on things he likes and has become very good at at servicing exactly what he wants. Um well if he wants to log in
8:56
Um well if he wants to log in he should log into reream one live stream 30 plus destinations multiream and reach your audience wherever they are.
9:03
are. Um but so I took this as just this like there's this interesting battle going on between how much personalization and how is personalization actually surfaced to the user like a lot of people in the replies >> are you getting value out of memory
9:21
function today >> it no I don't feel like I am I feel like it remembers little facts about me and then weaves those in basically in awkward moments but it's it's still chat GPT like it's still the >> voice feels like it's been broadly overhyped, right? This is what people
9:36
This is what people were saying was ultimately going to be the moat for LMS.
9:41
It's like why would you switch LLM?
9:43
The new LLM doesn't know anything about you.
9:47
>> Uh but but to date I I haven't I I same with you.
9:50
I haven't experienced feeling like I am so locked into this LLM because it knows everything about me.
9:54
It knows me better than the next product. >> Yes. It remembers facts.
9:59
So, if you've asked it to fix your car and you told it what model car you have and then you just mention like my car won't start, it'll remember what car that is, but it doesn't develop a unique personality. It's always the same.
10:11
And and that lends itself to a specific flavor of using m dashes, using bullet points.
10:18
I It's not this, it's that, that type of syntax.
10:22
And some people love that.
10:22
Like, we saw that Reddit loved 40 very clearly.
10:23
And a lot of us were surprised. We were like, really? Is this real? Is this fake? Like what's going on?
10:29
People are really upset that 40 is going away.
10:31
I was >> It changed course. >> Yeah.
10:34
And and they brought it back.
10:34
Uh and the same thing happened in Teapot with uh Clawude 3. 5 Sonnet.
10:38
Everyone was saying, "Oh, Sonnet is the best."
10:41
Tyler, did you like Sonnet 3. 5? Were you a Sonnet head? >> Yeah.
10:46
And I mean there was the funeral >> for Sonnet. >> There was a funeral.
10:48
Wait, wait, did they deprecate it? >> Yeah.
10:51
>> Oh, I didn't realize that.
10:52
>> Well, actually it was uh Claude 3.
10:52
That was like the original one that people were like, "Oh my gosh, I love Claude." >> Yeah.
10:57
Yeah, that had a very specific personality.
10:59
And I feel like the future and like the goal with personalization should be everyone gets that experience.
11:07
Everyone gets their own over time the model shapes and morphs into something that has a personality that you really vibe with.
11:16
Very much like if you go around the world like how many people do you meet before you find someone who like you want to start a show with or podcast with, right?
11:24
It takes a lot to be like th this person really gels with my personality.
11:29
Um, and their personality is changing a little bit as as I interact with them and vice versa.
11:36
Like that type of interaction, it happens over a very long time of meeting a lot of people and deciding who is who's the best fit, who do you who do you vibe with, right?
11:45
And so two years ago, Sam Alman stood on stage at OpenAI Dev Day.
11:52
This was in 2023, which feels like a decade ago at this point.
11:55
Um, and and announced custom GPTs and a GPT store.
12:01
And the idea was fine-tuning was going to be done by a creator.
12:05
And I was going to be able to do exactly what Matthew McConna is describing.
12:09
Go in, load up Matthew McConna's books, load up the Bible, load up a bunch of other interviews with him, everything about his worldview, art notes, journals, all of that stuff. Create a custom GPT.
12:22
could be private or it could be public and then other people could choose to interact with it.
12:25
And over the past two years that just hasn't happened.
12:27
I I looked at the top of the of the chat GPT app store and it's the number one is astrology birthchart GPT.
12:33
Number two is scholar GPT.
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It builds in uh Google Scholar, PubMed, Bioarchchive, Archive.
12:42
Then there's a fitness workout diet coach. Yes.
12:44
Uh humanize AI that's trying to write more humanlike content.
12:47
an image generator and an image generator pro.
12:51
And so I'm sure these are, you know, great, but they certainly haven't broken through to where they are the default.
12:57
By in general, when I want to use AI or chatbt, I open the app, I open my phone, I start talking to it.
13:05
I might throw in a link to an article to give it a little bit more context.
13:09
I might add some flavor on how what level of depth I want to go to, but I'm not going and creating custom GPTs.
13:16
I'm satisfied with the current results, but at the same time, I don't feel like it's personalized.
13:21
Like, I feel like if I picked up your chat GPT right now and said the exact same thing, give me a deep dive on the new CEOs of Oracle.
13:26
I was interested in that.
13:29
I wanted a deep research report.
13:30
I feel like I if I take my prompt, I put it in your chat.
13:32
I'm getting the exact same result. Yeah.
13:35
Basically, even though obviously it's it's uh it's not fully deterministic.
13:37
Uh it it might be slightly different words but I feel like the flavor the personality will be the same because we are me and you even though we we we we speak to Chachi differently.
13:48
We are interacting with like the same personality and it's and personalization just means remembering a few facts.
13:54
So it might address you as Jordy and me as John but it's not fundamentally going to be a different a different style.
14:00
And I was wondering about like how does that actually like like at what level do I want >> I'm still at a point where I'm I'm I'm testing >> different models and I can get the same value out of a bunch of different deep research >> Yep. >> like products. >> Yeah.
14:19
And that says a lot because I think I think ultimately the value of I think um deep research products have already stabilized to the point where yes if you were to compare two line by line you'd be >> one of them would be objectively the best but you're getting the core value out of it which is just a great >> summary of events or whatever you're researching. >> Yeah.
14:41
So a lot of it comes down to like speed and user interface.
14:43
Um, I I tend to like the current chatbt voice mode more than Gemini, but uh Gemini's deep research product is fantastic and it's faster.
14:55
And so I'm going to close my phone for 20 minutes, but I like being able to just pull up the voice mode.
15:00
And I feel like the Gemini app currently kind of jumps the gun on ending the voice note, whereas uh with ChatGpt, I feel like I can ramble a little bit more, add more context, and then and then end it and then edit it if I need to.
15:14
Um, so like I've just kind of baked into that flow, but I agree with you like they both feel like the same personality.
15:19
They might have memorized a few facts, but they're not really creating a p a different personality where oh yeah, my my chat GPT is like a is like a particular a particular character that's very different from yours.
15:33
And I think I think the future and what and what would be sort of like you know inferenceheavy or or GPU compute intensive might be every time like really doing thoughtful rollups and developing that personality over time for every user so that you don't just have Reddit loves 40 and teapot loves claude 3. 5 sonnet.
15:54
claude 3.5 sonnet. You have every single person loves their individual chatbt instance and would be would be distraught if it changed because they're very satisfied with it and as a function you don't you can't leave you don't want to leave because everyone has that feeling of like well I've invested all this time it knows it doesn't just know
16:15
things about me because I can go to a different model and say here's the car I drive here's my age here's my here's some data like put you know I I I could just import you know all sorts of podcasts I've done and stuff like it's easy to like get the facts, >> but it's not that easy to understand >> the flavor of LLM interaction that I'm looking for. What actually is sticky and
16:33
What actually is sticky and that feels like it all feeds into lower churn.
16:37
So, I think that's I think that's sort of the sort of the goal.
16:40
I don't think you will also log >> again the the the bigger dividing line is are you using AI for knowledge retrieval and like purely functional tasks or are you using it as a >> friendlike uh product? >> Yeah. Yeah. Totally.
16:58
Um >> and and I still I still believe that if you're in the first camp and it's function and knowledge retrieval that the personality just doesn't matter that much. Right.
17:09
I I still think that there's a little bit of personality that I think is it's somewhat important in the sense of like of like knowing where I like to dive deeper in the deep research, where I like to stay at a high level.
17:24
Um like if I'm doing a deep research report, I'm I'm often I'm often prompting it with uh write it like a New Yorker article.
17:33
Try and pull real quotes, real anecdotes, show me who the people were behind this decision.
17:38
I don't like just a fact fact.
17:40
I I actually really really detest when you you when you ask for the history of a business and they say Microsoft launched this.
17:51
Apple launched the iPhone.
17:51
Like I don't believe that Apple exists.
17:54
Apple didn't launch the iPhone.
17:57
Like Steve Jobs and a group of people who operate within a structure called Apple launched the iPhone.
18:03
And I want to hear the story of the people that did that thing, not the abstract press release machine that you get from like, you know, the corporate announced uh a personalization tab last week. >> Tab.
18:16
No, I didn't know about that.
18:17
>> This is in buried in the settings page. >> Okay. Yes.
18:19
I I I've seen that tab before.
18:21
>> You can uh enable customization so that you can customize >> uh the model effectively in the chat. Yep.
18:30
>> And then you can set different personalities.
18:31
So there's default, which is cheerful and adaptive, cynic, critical, and sarcastic. Interesting.
18:37
Robot, blunt, uh clanker, uh uh listener, and uh which is thoughtful and supportive and nerd, >> exploratory, and enthusiastic.
18:45
And then you can do custom instructions to make it sound Gen Z.
18:49
I guess >> I had I have I have some custom instructions >> years ago.
18:55
Someone posted like here are here are the best things to clean up your chatbt.
19:00
Um, but they were all like these prompt injection things like mistakes erode my trust, so be accurate and thorough.
19:07
Provide detailed explanations.
19:09
I'm comfortable with lots of detail.
19:10
Value good arguments over authorities.
19:12
The source is irrelevant.
19:14
And I don't know if I No moral lectures.
19:18
No need to disclose you're an AI.
19:18
Uh, some of these are useful. I don't know.
19:21
I'll probably take these out of there.
19:23
Um, what should GPT call you?
19:23
So, they're definitely working on this.
19:25
I just wonder I I think I turned this off after after I asked it to tell me a joke and the joke was like hyper specific about my particular car and I was like this is kind of cool but it's not really funnier. Um I don't know. Let's see.
19:39
I'm going to turn I'm going to turn personalization back on but clear out those custom instructions and see see how my uh my chat GBT experience is.
19:46
Um but there are obviously much more.
19:49
There are many more um uh just like down the fairway features that people are expecting.
19:57
So Sora 2 with audio and 4K uh people kind of expect that uh Sora I've comped Sora to V3.
20:06
V3 is dramatically better.
20:06
Sora 2 is still very or Sora 1 is still very hallucinatory but it's like a year old at this point.
20:13
So they probably should be catching up to the frontier there.
20:14
Uh of course that's extreme >> and you would expect Google to be in the lead here.
20:20
purely because of the YouTube. >> I would think so too.
20:23
Hopefully chat hopefully the OpenAI team has figured out a way to get up to the benchmarks.
20:30
I've seen other companies that aren't Google produce V3 level results.
20:32
So I would expect that Sora 2 is is close to V3 quality uh somehow.
20:38
I don't know how they got the data.
20:41
Might have bought it from somewhere.
20:42
Might have done a whole bunch of different things.
20:44
There's a lot of ways they could have gotten a ton of video tagged data.
20:46
Um, but that is something that I wouldn't be surprised if it's some new products that have additional fees.
20:53
I wouldn't be surprised if if the Sora 2 generations are so expensive that they actually just tell you like, hey, it's two bucks every time.
21:01
Because the the should have learned from the Google situation, which was I paid $250 on a $500 a month plan.
21:09
I I signed up for a $500 a month plan.
21:09
I haven't churned and you're still capping me at these crazy rate limits and you're just not taking my money and you're a huge company.
21:16
like there's got to be a way. And there was a way.
21:18
It was like go to the API and do all this.
21:19
But I was like, I want it in the app.
21:21
I want to be just consumer pro proumer level and at least have the option to just continue prompting and light the GPUs on fire.
21:29
Just find the fair market price.
21:29
Find the market clearing price for what the value of those GPUs are.
21:33
Right now, maybe it's 50 bucks a prompt.
21:34
And then and then I can decide I can decide.
21:39
Yeah, I'm using this for work.
21:39
This is going out on my my professional, you know, yeah, on my on my TV show and like it's worth 50 bucks.
21:45
Um maybe m maybe maybe the market clearing price is much lower but it should be above the value of running those GPUs in my opinion.
21:51
Um image two uh they currently have uh GPT image one and they're expecting like an answer to nano banana edits um better text rendering.
22:02
The text rendering is already fantastic in in images in chatbt.
22:05
Um but I wouldn't I wouldn't be surprised if that comes out.
22:07
Uh nanobanana for video in Sora too.
22:09
So the ability to upload a video, change it or kick off a frame and change that. Uh chatbt agent 2. Uh this is interesting.
22:20
Agent is something that I feel like should get baked into the model router at some point.
22:23
Like you should just be able to like right now if you hit chatbt with a query, it will say, "Oh, I'm thinking longer for a better answer."
22:32
>> I really want to get a better sense.
22:32
Has has operator been a total flop? >> Operator is gone.
22:37
Operator doesn't exist anymore. It's now agent.
22:39
But agent mode uses operator. I use agent.
22:42
Yes, I've used it a few times.
22:46
>> That's deep for deep research.
22:48
>> You could think about it like deep research, but instead of just pulling a bunch of text together, actually go and navigate, actually go try to navigate a bunch of websites.
22:57
So, I was looking for a new breakfast spot for us. This is real.
23:01
I wanted high protein options.
23:01
I I said, "Here's where I work.
23:04
Here's where I go to the gym.
23:06
I'd like a survey of high protein options."
23:09
So go look on a map, figure out what's in the area.
23:11
Go and pull the actual menus and build me the perfect diet plan to get me fully bulked this season because it's bulking season.
23:23
And and Chad be, oh, we know it's bulking season.
23:25
You don't have to tell us. We're super intelligent.
23:29
>> Wasn't born under a data living under a data center.
23:31
>> Of course, you're bulking. It's September.
23:33
Um but uh so so I've used it, but not a lot.
23:36
And it's never been something that's been able to be triggered just from the default prompt because it is >> it's not taking actions.
23:41
It's still just collecting information.
23:44
>> I mean, what's an action?
23:44
It takes the action of opening a web page and scraping out the data.
23:47
Um, it takes the action of like defeating capt.
23:52
It's clearly at war with the capture.
23:55
Um, but yes, I think you're right.
23:57
Taking actions chatbt agent 2 what we would expect.
23:59
I don't know if it's coming in the next week. The >> demo they gave.
24:03
>> Yeah, >> they were booking flights.
24:04
Wait, when >> what weren't they booking in the demo on GPT5 day or was one before that?
24:12
>> I don't know if they've ever showed a demo of them actually booking a flight, but it's clearly coming.
24:15
I think it'll be with their specific partners that have opted in.
24:19
And so, if you look at the the OpenAI partnerships list, there are a few companies that have said yes, we'd love to partner with you.
24:25
And uh so I wouldn't be surprised if something like Door Dash uh is is fully integrated in a way that you will be able to order through ChatGpt and I think that'll be very interesting.
24:38
Um >> yeah, so July 17th, >> yes, >> they said introducing Chat GBT agent bridging research and and action.
24:47
and they specifically said in your personal life, you can use it to effortlessly plan and book travel itineraries, design and book entire dinner parties or find specialists and schedule appointments.
24:59
So, all I'm saying is like we haven't like that's not really happening yet. >> No.
25:06
And so we might see something there.
25:10
It's unclear how much of this is like dev day because if if if Sam is really saying over the next few weeks and he's really just teasing dev day.
25:15
Devday could be much more oriented around companies that are planning to build on top but again if you want to integrate with chat GPT agent maybe there's an agent update and then that flows into how your company can integrate with uh with chatgpt agent.
25:28
Uh there's other there's other uh uh predictions that uh we might get the model that won the IMO uh and there might be an enhanced voice mode.
25:38
Um, clearly >> is Diego predicting enhanced voice mode 247?
25:44
>> I don't know what that means.
25:44
You just leave it on all the time. >> Just leave it on.
25:47
>> People are already kind of doing that.
25:47
I have noticed that some of the voice modes, if you leave them running for a long time, they get kind of crazy. Yeah.
25:54
Uh, like even just having it having the voice mode uh try and read you a full deep research report, I've had a lot of problems with where after a minute of it reading it just kind of like gets lost and it can't stick with it.
26:05
And I don't know if it's just like the internet connection that I'm on or something, but uh I' I've I've struggled many times to actually get it to to read it.
26:13
And then also it gets really confused by the uh the citations and stuff.
26:18
Uh it's been it's been ups and downs, but uh Greg Brockman posts that OpenAI has released a large-scale study on how people are using ChachiPT.
26:27
Consumer adoption has broadened beyond early user groups and lots of economic value.
26:32
>> This is the one that leaked. Yes.
26:32
Like more than a week ago.
26:33
It's cool because he's he's using the leaked image which I I don't know if it's leaked.
26:37
I think it's like from a court case or something.
26:40
Um, but it's it's interesting because it's not that image is not in the blog post that he links to, but it is in his post on X because he knows that this is the one that people want to dig into.
26:52
So, I thought it was a good good uh good use of uh of go, you know, posting.
26:57
Um, and so we we've talked about this before, but it is really is really evenly split.
27:01
Practical guidance 28%, seeking information 21%, writing 28%.
27:06
Like there are very >> multimedia at 6%. Yeah. Unknown at 4. That's ominous.
27:13
>> What What are you doing? >> Self expression at 4. 3. >> That's Tyler.
27:16
You know that's Tyler getting weird in chat. GBT >> games. Stay away from that. Stay away from that.
27:26
Uh data analysis, mathematical calculation, computer programming.
27:31
Computer programming is 4. 2%.
27:31
Of course, we are partnered with Cognition, the makers of Devon.
27:35
Devon, the AI software engineer, crush your backlog with personal AI engineering team with your personal AI engineering team.
27:42
Um, anyway, uh, it'll be fun to see what they actually launch.
27:46
There's so many different directions they can go.
27:47
They have a lot of territory carved out, a lot of different irons in the fire.
27:52
I wish we could see their just overall usage chart now that school's back in session because you remember it just like fell off the cliff. >> I don't know.
28:03
I I I don't know how much to read into that.
28:05
The falling off the cliff.
28:07
I mean, they're saying 28% of Chad GPT activity is just writing.
28:10
So obviously that's a lot of professionals.
28:14
It's a lot of >> student I Yeah, maybe maybe now that summer's over is better than schools back in session.
28:19
I don't think that you can get to the chat GPT numbers that DAUs purely on the back of college students.
28:26
Like I think a lot of people are using this at work and a lot of people aren't working during the summer and so >> people didn't get the memo about locking in in August and they had to wait until September. It's embarrassing. I >> feel bad.
28:37
>> Anyway, uh one of our newest sponsors, Privy Wallet infrastructure for every bank.
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Privy makes it easy to build on crypto rail securely sign up white spin up white label wallets sign transactions that integrate with onchain infrastructure all through one simple API.
28:52
>> I uh little little uh what do you call it? Hit it. Hit it, Nick. Hit it. >> The bhorn. It's a bhorn. >> Brandon. Brandon.
28:58
Let's get the let's get the bell horn. I need him together. I need it together. >> Both of them. That's great.
29:06
>> So, uh Run is talking.
29:06
There's there's a ton more going on in in uh >> this guy's got his fingers in a lot of pies.
29:13
>> He does have his fingers in a lot of pies. A ton of pies.
29:15
This guy run uh he says the jump from GPT4 to 5 Codeex is just massive for those who can see it.
29:23
Codex is an alien juggernaut just itching to become superhum feeling the long- aaited takeoff.
29:28
There's very little doubt that the data center capex will not go to waste.
29:32
And Nick Carter says, "You heard the man.
29:34
Data center capex is justified.
29:36
Thank you for your attention to this matter. >> Thank you. >> Huge relief. >> Huge relief. >> Huge relief. >> We I was worried. >> We were worried.
29:44
>> We were calling the top. We did it prematurely.
29:45
We're We're still We're still at the at the early stages. We're so early. >> Call the top.
29:50
We just said there were top signals.
29:54
>> There were there were some top signals, but we kept riding on. >> We ride on. >> We ride on.
29:58
Uh Accelerate Harder says, "Place your bets.
30:01
We of course will be betting.
30:02
Um, we need to get some poly markets up on what Open AI launches.
30:05
We are of course powered by Poly Market.
30:10
You can see them down in the ticker.
30:10
Uh, there's some other a lot of people are a lot of people are uh are kind of coalesing around GPT image 2 Sora 2 with audio video improved memory as a separate paid add-on.
30:22
I wonder if that would be the separate paid add-on.
30:25
I would switch and say Sora 2 will be a separate paid add-on because that's really expensive. the improved memory.
30:30
I feel like they can't >> they can't that's doesn't feel like >> you can't charge for that.
30:35
It's so unclear what you get.
30:38
Like the beauty of V3 is you go and get three of them and you're like I need more of this.
30:43
But personalization is something that you're going to feel over a long time.
30:46
It's going to be very slow.
30:48
Like it's not going to be like a wow moment on day one, right?
30:52
>> So I don't know why you'd be like I pay for what they need to reduce $200 a month over and so I feel like the personalization knowing knowing what shoes you want to buy that's just that pays for itself.
31:04
The hard thing is if someone's going there and being like I'm going to generate a two-hour movie and it's going to cost $10,000 in GPU credits.
31:11
Uh they need to charge you for that.
31:14
Uh and then uh the yeah there is a question about how how much of this will hit plus users over what time period.
31:18
Uh Zephr says multi-agent RL systems for consumers.
31:23
Um I I I I think we're starting to see that with some of the ordering APIs, some of the some of the uh codecs and agent stuff. Um I'm very interested.
31:34
I was playing around with codecs earlier today a little bit.
31:35
Uh I'm interested to see how it gets to the phone. the vibes have been.
31:42
>> I mean, just I was just watching a an interview with Dylan Patel and and a podcaster and uh and this particular individual was extremely bullish on Codex and had moved had moved a ton of work from cloud code over to codeex.
31:53
And so I should watch you never watch the did you see the claude co cla ad?
32:00
>> We should pull up that >> pull it up.
32:00
I put it in the timeline. Watch it.
32:03
>> Um it was >> Andrew Curran the last prediction here.
32:06
Comput intensive almost means almost certainly means Sora 2 which would mean Sora 2 will be pro exclusive at launch.
32:12
Google similarly offers full V3 for ultra subscribers only.
32:15
These models are insanely expensive to run.
32:16
Prediction native sound 15-second clips.
32:18
Yeah, that would be an interesting way for them to differentiate would be go a little bit longer on the clip. V3 is at 8 seconds.
32:26
If they do it's 15 seconds.
32:26
It's almost twice as long.
32:28
Uh could be a little bit >> do sound.
32:31
>> V3 does do sound and it does it does it pretty well.
32:33
pretty well. and they had a little bit of a pop moment and I could imagine uh the OpenAI team really really popping on Sora 2 some cool new features especially if they figure out how what is the killer use case what's the really iconic thing what's the prompt that anyone can do and get a great video out of uh with
32:51
with V3 a lot of creators came with cool ideas and then wound up getting great results but with Dolly or uh with images and chat it was like the studio Giblly moment and so if if OpenAI can work backwards from like what is something that every single person could do like upload your profile picture and turn it into a video of something like that. Something where everyone has to go and
33:11
Something where everyone has to go and do it for themselves to see what it looks like.
33:15
That could be a really big viral moment for them.
33:17
Anyway, we are going to be monitoring that.
33:19
And uh in the meantime, let's watch this uh new video from Anthropic.
33:25
>> There's never been a worse time. >> Problem.
33:27
>> There's never been a worse time. >> Problem.
33:29
>> There's never been a worse time. >> Problem. has never been a worse.
33:35
[Music] >> Fast-paced cuts.
33:40
>> I like the color editing, color grading.
33:44
>> There's never been a better time. >> Let's go.
33:48
>> Better time to have a problem.
33:50
>> Never been a better time to have a problem. >> To be overwhelmed. >> It's kind of true.
33:58
>> The robots are useful.
33:58
The client crews are helping you solve your problems.
34:00
to shorten out of your depth, out of breath.
34:08
>> Anthropic really has has developed like their own brand world now.
34:10
When they started doing those uh those billboards in London or something, we were very confused.
34:16
Uh but this is getting to a point where >> they went from having some of the worst ads to now this is a this is a great ad. >> Yeah.
34:25
And this really really stands in contrast to the OpenAI Super Bowl ad which was very it was like this black sun thing and it was like this pointalism black circles.
34:33
This is very rich colors, warm tones.
34:35
Feels very human actually.
34:38
It does not feel this does not feel clanker coated. >> Apple evolved. >> Totally. Yeah. A little retro.
34:48
>> Even I feel like that shot of the piano that was exploding cropped and it's going backwards.
34:53
>> Yeah, they're solving the piano.
34:53
They're recreating the piano. I like it. >> They're crushing it.
34:56
>> So, hats off to everyone at Anthropic for >> Yeah.
34:58
But does this does this uh this tells me not not giving up on consumer, >> right?
35:06
>> Is that I mean, that could work for for a B2B ad, you know, that that could just be like the vibes are good at this company.
35:12
Let's continue working together in the enterprise to drive shareholder value.
35:18
You know, you can watch that and be like be like, "Okay, yeah, the cloud code uh bill came through this month and I'm happy with it. Let's let's keep it up." What do you think?
35:27
>> But it's very it's very positioned as like don't just think of us as a >> those were consumer use cases. Yeah.
35:32
What What do you think, Tyler? >> Um yes.
35:33
So, uh o over the weekend, my roommates at I I so I live at UCLA um with a bunch of students there.
35:39
Um they were telling me at a >> We get it. We get it.
35:41
You don't need to like make a big deal out of it. We get it. >> You live at UCLA.
35:45
It's not that big of a deal. >> Yeah.
35:47
So, um, so at the football game, um, they said, uh, >> we get it.
35:53
You went to a football game. >> No, I didn't go. I was at your college. >> We get it.
35:56
You're a college student.
35:57
>> I was not at the football game, but there was a round of applause for Kyle. >> Wow. Okay. Yeah.
36:01
Living the college dream.
36:03
Unlike these washed up podcasters over here just rubbing it in. So young. He's got his whole life.
36:10
>> So much such a bright future ahead of you. >> Okay.
36:13
But so there was an ad for anthropic at the football game. Okay. >> Um, >> wait. What do you mean?
36:16
Like like on >> like on the jerseys?
36:19
>> No, it was like on I think it was on like the um >> like the big screen. What are they called? I don't know. >> Big screen. >> Yeah.
36:25
Um and and they were like, "Oh, what is this like company?"
36:27
Like none of them had ever heard of it.
36:28
They were like, "Oh, it's like slept on like clawed.
36:30
Like they don't want you to know about this."
36:32
So I think there's some like consumer thing going on at least among students.
36:36
>> The war for the consumer isn't over.
36:39
>> Um last semester, uh Anthrop was pushing pretty hard.
36:42
they have like a student um some kind of like plan that's like super cheap.
36:46
They're giving out like free subscriptions. >> Yeah.
36:48
>> So, I think they might be like aiming towards like that demographic a little bit.
36:51
>> I wonder if they'll if they'll find a point of differentiation somehow.
36:53
I mean Google like Gemini has such a great point of differentiation in consumer in the sense that like you're already on Gmail, you can plug in there.
37:01
like the plugins have been slow, but like you can bootstrap a ton of personalization and just a ton of extra functionality from saying from properly integrating Gemini to the rest of your of your Google apps.
37:15
Are you watching the chat? >> Chad says Mr.
37:16
Morales says, "Let me guess. Tyler had a beer." >> Hopefully not. He's not 21.
37:24
>> Anyway, um uh but but Claude doesn't seem like they have the ability to bootstrap personalization.
37:30
I mean the the the real killer I feel like the killer use case or inconsumer would be if if there's a if there's a flow where you download the app and when you go to prompt it it's more willing to write code and it's more willing to write better code.
37:49
I feel like that could be something that would actually break through.
37:53
I keep thinking about when I hit deep research um like we talked to Doug Olaflin about this and he said that he's getting sometimes better results out of clawed code than deep research just for actual research tasks.
38:05
And so I tried this and I said go build me a I went to claude code and I said go build me a deep research report about a topic but then instantiate it in a HTML web page.
38:17
And so it gets the ability to use it to to to use all the different HTML 5 building blocks.
38:22
So it can create a table if it wants.
38:24
It can create a pie chart.
38:25
It can bold pull in JavaScript.
38:27
It can create bar charts.
38:27
It can do everything that you can do on HTML. It was very cool.
38:31
And I and I felt like I saw a glimpse of the future where if I go to Claude and I ask it a question, hey, teach me, you know, econ 101.
38:37
It could build software that's actually interactive to teach me that topic on the fly.
38:47
And that might be something that leverages what Anthropic seems to be very good at, which is coding.
38:50
Give me a deep research report, but as I scroll, give me the maximum amount of dopamine. >> Here we go.
38:59
>> Give me flashing lights and and sound effects. >> I don't know. What do you think?
39:03
>> I think there's something else where like Claude is basically the only >> like company or it's anthropic, but like Claude is like >> very personified.
39:10
Like people think of like Claude as like a person almost like at least on on like Twitter and like >> you know SF people.
39:16
>> you know SF people. Yeah, >> it's like claude is like a person where Chatbt is like a tool >> which is fascinating because it's it's it's such a throwback because in the previous era of voice interfaces or like AI we had Siri Alexa there were a few others >> there was Jeves that Jeeves uh even Samsung I think has Bixby which was Bard
39:39
which was very much supposed to be like a person and then a lot of the companies pulled back from that and opening I just said it's just chasht we're not giving it a name And then Gemini came out and Gemini doesn't feel like a you're not supposed to say hey Gemini really like it just kind of it's it's just a model, right? >> You don't say Jimmy Gem Gem.
39:55
>> You don't say Jimmy Gem Gem. >> No, I don't.
39:58
And I and certainly hasn't caught on.
40:00
And so anyway, >> yeah, I do I do think this this ad for anthropic like around problem solving, they've earned they've earned making that a pillar of their marketing by having so much success in Codegen. Yeah. >> So >> I like the ad. We like the ad.
40:14
If you want to develop some software, if you want to design something, head over to figma. com.
40:19
Think bigger, build faster.
40:21
Figma helps design and development teams build great products together.
40:22
Uh >> what was this post?
40:24
Shoot at the server room during evacuation.
40:29
>> Oh, this is just best practices in case in case the AI is something like Vanta recommends. >> Yes.
40:35
If you're not compliant, then the feds are coming because you don't have you don't have >> send this rocket into your >> Go to Vanta.
40:43
Automatic automate compliance, manage risk, prove trust continuously.
40:46
Vantage trust management platform takes the manual work out of your security and compliance process and replaces it with uh continuous automation. Um yes.
40:52
And so I I think this is from a war zone where there is a lot of data stored in the server room.
41:00
And so if you're evacuating uh shoot this rocket launcher at the at the server room so that the enemy combatants can't steal your data, can't steal all the in >> all your plays. >> All your plays. Yeah, pretty crazy.
41:12
Um, but imagine how good it would feel to fire that bad boy off at a server room. Just take that clanker.
41:20
Um, >> especially especially if you were the the engineer that had to like maintain it over time and it was giving you a lot of problems. >> Oh, yeah.
41:28
>> You could you could take out the clankers without, you know, for good reason.
41:32
>> It feels like that scene in uh in h you haven't seen the movie in Office Space where they smash the the printer.
41:38
>> I have seen >> You've seen Office Space.
41:41
>> I That's one of my dad. Let's go.
41:43
>> My dad's favorite movies ever. >> Fantastic film. >> Jord's third movie.
41:48
>> The equivalent of my the equivalent of my stapler is my headset.
41:50
When I when I get here and >> Oh, yeah. You need your headset. Yeah. Yeah. >> You put it on.
41:55
And so my >> Jordy Hayes movies.
41:58
We've seen Borat, we've seen Mountain Head, and we've seen Office >> Office Base.
42:02
The three those are the three films. >> Pinnacle.
42:04
The The uh Mike Judge is a genius.
42:08
Uh and you know what else is genius? Graphite. dev.
42:09
code review for the age of AI.
42:11
Graphite helps teams on GitHub ship higher quality software faster.
42:17
Um, we're also monitoring the situation of private tech markets.
42:20
It's never been better to be a show focused on the private markets.
42:25
OpenAI leads private markets surge as seven tech startups reach combined $1. 3 trillion valuation.
42:32
>> What are the other what are the other?
42:34
It's got to be OpenAI, Anthropic, SpaceX, uh, XAI, um, RAMP, >> Vanta, Julius, Fall, all of our sponsors.
42:45
Basically, we need the combined market cap of all of our sponsors.
42:49
>> We need that's a key that's a KPI for us.
42:51
We got to get those numbers up. >> We got to get those. >> Tyler, new project.
42:54
Uh, by the way, last Friday, I I I I jokingly told Tyler, "Build a soundboard." >> Oh, yeah. Did he?
43:02
Uh, and he did and it's fantastic.
43:04
He he had a working version by the time the show was over on Friday.
43:08
He took my he took my ask very literally.
43:11
I said just get it done in like I don't know like 15 20 minutes.
43:14
>> You did it >> and he basically did it but we are going to release it soon.
43:18
>> Uh, and it looks fantastic.
43:18
So you guys will be able to >> uh use our sound uh soundboard in your own meetings. Okay.
43:24
Um, so if if um, you know, somebody announces a couple positive things, you can personally go >> double kill.
43:34
>> It's going to be a lot of fun.
43:35
>> Uh, your boss announces layoffs. Bo, keep us on staff. >> Yep. It's good to have. Good to have.
43:45
Uh, >> oh, we raised a growth round. >> Friendly IPO inbound.
43:51
>> I mean, it's it's highly functional. It's highly functional. >> Oh. Uh.
43:54
Uh, our new fundraising rounds leaking.
43:57
>> Large journalistic force headed towards you. Stand by.
44:02
>> And we're gonna be adding a lot more. >> Oh. Uh.
44:03
Oh, we're struggling paying uh we're struggling to pay our sales tax this quarter. >> Sales tax ag. >> Sales tax ag.
44:12
>> I actually want to talk about the numeral thing.
44:13
Let me find that in in here. It's deeper.
44:15
Uh, but we got to get to this.
44:17
So, numeral came on the show. Their partner. I love them. I use them. Sam. >> Absolutely.
44:22
put on a put on a clinic. Uh, interestingly.
44:24
Uh, so there's there's been a debate.
44:29
The timeline was in turmoil.
44:30
Uh, is is sales tax boring? We obviously think no.
44:33
Uh, I think Sam put on a great performance and just kind of took us through like what it's like raising right now in the market.
44:38
And, uh, >> he was also honest about his cloud costs going up. >> Totally.
44:45
And so, uh, he he shared, uh, the announcement.
44:47
He says, "Uh, I'm thrilled to share that numerals raised the $35 million series B led by Mayfield at a $350 million valuation.
44:55
Turns out sales tax and VAT have gotten so complex that we need AI and millions of dollars in VC funding to make it simple again.
45:01
This brings us to $57 million in funding."
45:03
And so, uh, he he tags the investors. He went on a press tour.
45:08
came on our show, talked about this and and Levels IO uh got a little snippy with him, quote tweeted it and said, "You can often predict a company's course if their announcements talk more about how much investment they got than their product.
45:21
If I'd raised $50 million, maybe I'd not even tweet it, just to use it to improve the product and get more users and talk about that.
45:28
Having money in the bank tells me absolutely nothing about why I should use your product.
45:32
It's not my money, it's your money."
45:34
And so I I think >> and I and I just I I disagree with this on multiple levels.
45:40
Like one, if you're building software for businesses, it's very helpful to communicate that we have a lot of, you know, a lot of funding doesn't guarantee >> anything. Yes.
45:50
But it but it's a it's a vote of it's it's showing that that uh smart people have confidence that you're going to create a lot of value in the future, delivering great products for customers.
46:02
Two, as a business, your job is to take anything that you do and make it newsworthy. Yep.
46:07
Fundraises are are are easy. >> Hires, trade deals. >> Hires. Yeah. Trade deals, right?
46:12
Your job is to just take anything that's going on and make it uh make it newsworthy.
46:18
Make, you know, take another opportunity.
46:20
The most bearish thing is as a company, companies that launches once, right?
46:24
The best companies launch over and over and over.
46:27
They're not like, "Oh, I'm going to launch and then I'm just going to be quiet and do my thing and just make the product a little bit better every day."
46:33
It's like, you have a new feature, you have a new hire, you have a fund raise, you have a profile, right?
46:37
It's like launch, launch, launch, launch, launch. Yep.
46:41
>> And uh Level's obviously, you know, a a a great uh builder and we should have him on the show, >> but it's it's, you know, he just is like hates venture capital, you know, so much.
46:54
Uh, and I think before he knocks it, he should try. >> Yeah.
46:59
I mean, the the other thing that uh Levels launches like like the most recent product that he got to go really viral was this like amazing vibecoded game in the browser that anyone could just click and try like massive TAM for that product, right?
47:12
Anyone can be like, "Oh, I know Flight Simulator. I've been on a plane. I want to fly around. I'll click this button." Right?
47:18
And it was an interesting business story and it was an interesting product and it looked cool and it was a demonstration of vibe coding.
47:23
He's done a few other products that have been like visual.
47:25
One was an interior design product that you could take a picture of your empty apartment and then put furniture in it.
47:30
And that is something that also will naturally sort of go more viral than okay, we we we launched VAT compliance, right?
47:38
Like like sales tax is not as sexy.
47:40
It's not as something that people just even if you do improve the product, it's not inherently viral.
47:47
And so you if you're in B2B software, in enterprise software, like you do have to take advantage of fundraising announcements to drum up a bunch of support and just make people aware of you because there isn't there isn't that natural virality that comes from, okay, you you put uh uh you know, you landed a rocket.
48:06
That's just something everyone wants to see.
48:08
You built a you built a humanoid robot. You built a drone. You blew something up. There's an explosion.
48:12
There's something beautiful, an image that people want to see.
48:16
Um, and so I I agree that you should focus on the product, but to to not take advantage of fundraising milestones as a B2B company is is a mistake and you should actually uh definitely run the playbook.
48:27
Uh, Ajiny Midha over at Andre had a different take.
48:31
He said, uh, true for the median startup, but it's dangerously wrong for frontier technology companies. Capital is a weapon.
48:37
he's just making the case for raising money.
48:38
But I think the I think the the other case is just that uh when you're in B2B, you need to be taking advantage of the business story and the business story is the fundraising story and so you have to deliver on that very >> Yeah.
48:50
And and and levels is just playing a totally different game. >> Yeah. Which is fine. >> He makes hundreds.
48:54
>> There's nothing wrong with playing that particular game.
48:55
It's >> I think he probably makes a hundred couple few hundred,000 a month in like profit from his businesses, >> but he's not really creating enterprise value. Yeah. Right.
49:05
Uh, a lot of his businesses would probably sell for maybe like a one one one revenue or something like that, which is which is great, but he's just playing a totally different game. >> Yeah.
49:15
Sam is playing a game where he takes a modest salary and he built and he's and he's trying to build a company that will one day be worth billions of dollars and and uh capital um >> you know again even the best businesses in the world end up tapping the capital markets and and just being like default against using financing in any form is just silly.
49:37
>> Great tool for the job.
49:37
Uh well, Apple's Foundation model running on an iPhone 17 Pro has demoed.
49:43
I don't know how this got out, but um it seems like maybe this is already shipping.
49:50
I don't know if this is a developer preview or something, but it looks very fast.
49:54
Adrien Gronden says Apple was not joking.
49:56
The A19 Pro chip is really good for running LLMs.
49:59
Let's uh let's look at this video.
50:02
I think we have it pulled up.
50:04
So, he types in a prompt and it just spits this out.
50:06
And I apparently this is on device.
50:08
This is ondevice inference.
50:11
And so a lot of people were saying like Apple's going to win.
50:12
I don't know that this is what does it for them to get them to like win, you know, AI, but it's certainly >> what is what is Apple Foundation? Do we know?
50:25
>> Apparently, I mean, it sounds like it's some sort of foundation model that they've trained internally and they're running locally on their device.
50:31
Some sort of distilled model.
50:33
Do you have any insight on this, Tyler?
50:35
Like have you have you been tracking this at all? >> I don't know exactly.
50:37
I mean it must be a super small model cuz even I mean the like RAM is still like only like 12 gigs or something.
50:44
>> I thought it was more.
50:44
I thought they went up to 16 on this last one. >> Oh, really?
50:47
I thought they went from 8 to 12. I could be wrong.
50:48
Maybe the max is 17 Pro uh memory. Let's see.
50:54
>> Well, I think also like it's hard to say that like oh Apple is going to win because like if you look at the median person using LM, they're not optimizing for like speed of the LM.
51:01
They're using like optimizing for the intelligence. Yeah, you're right. 12 12 12 gigs.
51:04
Yeah, that's not that much. Um tricky.
51:06
I I still think that the end of the road is some sort of partnership with OpenAI or Gemini taking a cut just getting the actual because >> I I think it makes sense to do some kind of router where for like if you can kind of figure out how like difficult the task is and you run it locally and then for complex things you send it off to OpenAI. Yeah, that makes sense.
51:26
Yeah, I mean right now there's supposed to be a router in Apple Intelligence and but when I hit it, it's rough.
51:34
It's not it's not tuned up properly.
51:36
Like it it it seems to go all over the place.
51:39
And then also they have this weird modal that even if you go to Apple Intelligence and you say, "I'd like you to go to ChatGpt and and ask this deeper question," you have to click a button and say, "Yes, actually send that to Chat GBT."
51:54
It's like a privacy thing, but it's clearly just like an extra barrier to adoption.
51:59
And so I wind up just opening the CHPd app.
52:01
Uh, which is fine, I guess, but I'd like a deeper integration there. I don't know.
52:07
We'll keep monitoring it.
52:09
>> Um, Julius, what analysis do you want to run?
52:11
Chat with your data and get expert level insights in seconds.
52:13
You can ask Julius to analyze your data and then loved by over two million people and trusted by individuals at Princeton, BCG, and Zep.
52:24
um the uh the 3D world models.
52:24
Uh Pachy has a post here.
52:28
He says, "After watching a bunch of the 3D World demos this week, the thing that struck me walking around this morning is how shockingly high resolution the world is.
52:36
You can zoom in your attention on any little thing and find an astonishing amount of detail.
52:40
This, of course, is a fully generated model. This is from World Labs.
52:44
This is Feay Lee's project."
52:46
>> Except for this turbo puffer fish.
52:46
I mean, this thing is pixelated. >> Zoom in on this. >> Yeah. Yeah.
52:53
Can we go to Jord's wide?
52:54
>> Way less way less detail. >> What's going on here?
52:56
Yeah, this is not rendering.
52:59
>> Not rendering fully, but we're working on it. Thanks so much.
53:02
>> We're trying to get a real a real puffer fish. >> Love turbo puffer.
53:04
Um we uh yeah, this world model uh uh the fully generated one.
53:11
The other one that was cool was uh the at the Meta Connect event uh they launched the ability to create a uh is it a is it a gajian splat? Is that what it is? >> Yeah.
53:23
I Is it I think it's Gaussian, right? >> Gausian. Gaus >> Gaus. Yeah.
53:27
>> It's named after Gaus. Yeah. >> Gausian splat.
53:28
I want to have Tyler create one of the Ultra Dome.
53:32
>> Yeah, you can do it with the Quest. Yeah. So, >> yeah.
53:35
It's very It's very cool.
53:37
>> You feel like you're you very much feel like you are when you're wearing the headset, you feel like you're in the >> actual. Yeah. Yeah.
53:45
No, it it was you were getting emotional.
53:48
Yeah, it was because I looked over and there were two sets of like pancakes for kids and I have twins and so I was like, "Wow, like this makes me this actually makes me miss my kids."
53:57
Which was like remarkable.
53:57
Um, at the same time, like there was no game mechanic and I don't know that there's that many places that I'd actually want to go and see.
54:05
Like I liked in Apple Vision Pro that there were multiple uh really scenic like you could go and watch a movie on the top of a mountain or you could be in the desert and be using your computer.
54:15
But I very much wouldn't just want to hang out on the top of a mountain.
54:18
I would want to be watching a movie on top of a mountain.
54:21
It was like a cool environment.
54:21
So the the environments need to be really cool.
54:25
I feel like there'll be there'll be some sort of power law of like the best environments and there'll be a few.
54:29
But I like the idea of people being able to scan and share their rooms and walk around.
54:33
But I I would be surprised even if we put up on the Meta Quest, I don't know if you can actually share your scans yet. That's clearly coming.
54:39
Um, but even if we scan the Ultradome and shared it with people, the audience members that have a Quest 3 or Quest 3S that would they'd probably go poke around in it for like two minutes and then be like, "Okay, I'm done. I Yeah, that was cool.
54:52
Okay, I'm been there, done that.
54:54
I've been there, done that, right?" Yeah.
54:55
Uh, >> well, speaking of meta, uh, Buco Capital says, "Got a laugh from Zuck talking about the AI infra bubble.
55:01
He's basically like quote, "Yeah, history shows we can't help it.
55:06
We'll overbuild, use too much debt, then it will explode."
55:09
Which which proves to be a great time to buy distressed assets.
55:13
Wink, maybe AI is different though.
55:13
IDK, >> this is a great interpretation of Alex interview with Mark Zuckerberg.
55:22
Uh again, Mark Mark is in a good uh position in that he can, you know, he could he could misspend a couple hundred billion and and be >> the business will turn on for sure and continue to generate tons of cash flow.
55:35
>> Um >> um >> we didn't even cover uh Nvidia plans to invest hundred billion dollars into OpenAI. This news broke today.
55:43
>> And Nvidia uh Sophie Netcap girl says Nvidia up a billion% on the news that it'll invest in a company that will use the money to buy more GPUs. >> Let's go.
55:56
>> Um Nvidia is up uh three almost 4% today. Broadcom is down.
56:01
I mean, this is this feels like just a we're one step down the path to the original Stargate plan.
56:13
Like the original Stargate plan was very much Sam Alman creating a multi-year plan to spend something like 500 billion and there were going to be a number of parties involved.
56:22
Obviously, you need a lot of chips from Nvidia, you need a lot of Oracle infrastructure, you need a data center, you need energy and so all of those partnerships are coming together.
56:31
Interestingly to today, it's not like Nvidia wired some money or sent some chips or anything like that.
56:36
This is a letter of intent, which is funny to see at this scale because it's like a famous YC thing is that you say like, "Oh, we got a huge letter of intent for this thing."
56:45
this thing." But at the same time like I think at this scale like letters of intent are like pretty serious and you should take it pretty seriously that uh everyone's planning and as long as as long as all the different pieces fall into place like everything should should
57:00
work like as long as the investors say I'm good for my hundred billion and Oracle says they're good for this 100 billion timeline Nvidia says they're good to produce 100 billion of chips like you're going to get the 500 billion together like the the capital will I got a good graphic for the game. Pull this Pull this up. >> Yeah.
57:19
While we're pulling that up, let me tell you about Fall, the generative media platform for developers.
57:25
The world's best generative image, video, and audio models all in one place.
57:29
Develop and fine-tune models and with serverless GPUs and on demand clusters. >> Look at this.
57:33
Look at this beautiful graphic.
57:34
Wall Street loves Wall Street.
57:37
>> This is like the fifth time I've seen this graphic.
57:38
We saw this exact same graphic yesterday with uh or last week with Oracle.
57:42
widely applicable in the current state of technology. >> Yeah.
57:47
>> I give you money, you give it back to me. >> It is. It is crazy.
57:49
I mean, there were times when when Mark Zuckerberg was a LP in a venture fund that would invest in a company that would buy Facebook ads, but it was like six degrees of separation and the economy was not nearly as circular.
58:04
The these deals are very much like I hand you money and you hand it directly back to me.
58:08
But uh I mean at the end of the day like what really matters is like usage.
58:12
I mean we should be tracking like how much like if ARR starts to slow if DAUs start to slow like then all bets are off.
58:20
But if we if we continue see acceleration in anthropics enterprise numbers and and OpenAI's consumer numbers like it's all justified I think.
58:30
I don't know >> this uh this account solely Omar says so let me get this right.
58:36
Oracle says OpenAI committed three billion for cloud compute.
58:40
Uh Oracle stock jumps 36% best day since 1992.
58:44
Oracle runs on Nvidia GPUs.
58:47
Has to buy billions in chips from Nvidia.
58:49
Nvidia just announced they're investing a hundred billion in OpenAI.
58:53
OpenAI uses that money to pay Oracle who pays Nvidia who invests in OpenAI.
59:01
>> It's a little circular. >> Good fun. Good fun.
59:04
>> It's a little It's a little circular. We'll see.
59:06
But uh Carla Perez, the goat of financial bubbles, has weighed in.
59:09
Um she is quoting a post from uh Colossus Patrick Oanessy's publication.
59:15
Carlo says, "A brilliant tour to force about AI from the investor's point of view.
59:20
Uh and the author compares AI with the personal computer and containerships, fully understanding the life cycle of all revolutionary technologies."
59:29
Um we will have to dig into this article.
59:31
It's called AI will not make you rich.
59:33
If you're not subscribed to Colossus, head over and get a physical copy.
59:37
It's by Jerry Newman in the September 2025 issue in issue four of Colossus Mag. The disruption is real.
59:44
It's also predictable, he says.
59:46
So, this is a longer article.
59:48
I want to read through it.
59:49
We don't have time today.
59:49
We will get to it in the future.
59:52
We might come back to it later in the show today. Who knows?
59:55
But, uh, let's skip through that and in the meantime tell you about Turbo Puffer.
59:59
Puffer. saw the pixelated turbo puffer fish search every bite serverless vector and full text search built from first principles and object storage fast 10x cheaper and extremely scalable um >> by linear notion a bunch of other great companies to build AI products
1:00:15
>> we also have a post from Elon Musk he says Grock can now read aloud in a beautiful voice um I'd love to this up if possible >> uh test it >> I'm I'm it's so funny the and of Grock is so chaotic at this point that I don't know if I'm expecting uh a girl's voice or German's voice. It could be anything. It could be anything.
1:00:36
>> Or what what what is it called when people like talk into the mic, you know? >> Oh, yeah. ASMR. >> ASMR. ASMR.
1:00:42
>> It's just like an ASMR.
1:00:44
>> Is hydrogen fuel good? A good idea? Let's play this.
1:00:46
I want to hear what it sounds like. >> Let's see. Do we have it?
1:00:51
>> Is hydrogen fuel a good idea?
1:00:51
Hydrogen fuel is clean, zero tailpipe emissions, and useful for niche cases like heavy industry or long haul transport, but it's inefficient to 40% roundtrip efficiency.
1:01:03
The normal voice and lacks infrastructure.
1:01:08
>> You can definitely tell it's global.
1:01:10
>> Yeah, you can tell it's AI, but this is definitely not the best voice ever.
1:01:14
>> What's the best voice and probably something from 11 Labs?
1:01:17
something from 11 Labs? No, >> they seem to still kind I was I was very uncertain on like how I mean we talked to Matia about this but uh uh I was very uncertain on like how 11 Labs would maintain any sort of moat
1:01:33
around the foundation model companies but it feels like they're being they're basically trying to be the uh the midjourney of voice where it's just this this opinionated artistic vision that leads to something that you can't quite just instantly optimize against. You
1:01:49
You know it when you see it.
1:01:51
You try a bunch of things. What do you think?
1:01:53
>> I think another thing is um I believe they have a product where you can like clone a voice. >> Yeah.
1:01:57
>> Um which none of the other labs seem to do.
1:02:00
I think because of like >> legal stuff. >> Yeah.
1:02:03
But I mean Siri was initially cloned.
1:02:05
Like there is a there is a woman whose voice is the voice of Siri.
1:02:07
You would think you would just hire someone with a good voice and then just say, "Hey, we're going to license this and we're going to pay you a royalty and let's get a contract in place."
1:02:16
And there's some some voice actor out there who's like I would love to be the voice of Claude or the voice of >> No, I I mean that like um >> why don't you >> like you can make like on 11 Labs I can make my voice. >> Okay. Okay.
1:02:27
And and and that's and you just want to listen to yourself that much that you has. >> Okay.
1:02:31
Not I don't do that for me, but I could make someone who is like a good speaker read something who has like a nice voice.
1:02:36
Like I I don't think other labs do that because >> like there's a whole thing about her with >> Yeah.
1:02:42
I would just think that if if if the Grock team wants a particularly beautiful voice to read things aloud that they would go and find a particularly great voice artist and then clone it.
1:02:52
>> You don't think that's what they're doing? >> Uh, no.
1:02:54
I don't think should hire David Senra. >> That'd be very good. Be very good.
1:02:59
>> Well, without further ado, let's bring in our first guest. We got >> John Shahiti.
1:03:07
>> Welcome to the stream. >> How you doing?
1:03:11
Good to meet you in person.
1:03:11
Thanks so much for coming on the show. Good to see you. >> Yeah, you too. >> Welcome. >> Thank you.
1:03:18
>> We have a podcast mic for you.
1:03:18
Why don't you kick us off with an introduction?
1:03:19
Uh tell everyone who you are. >> Yeah.
1:03:23
>> Um >> well, it's good to meet everybody. Yeah.
1:03:26
And uh yeah, I'm John Shahiti.
1:03:26
I created uh the Shots Podcast Network, which is a podcast network uh that hosts a number of different podcasts.
1:03:33
Then we also incubate and create different brands.
1:03:36
Full send brand, Happy Dad brand, Ranger Cut Jerky.
1:03:39
Um, and I think our business model really now moving forward is just to, you know, create brands and treat brands like we treat creators.
1:03:50
>> So, >> what's the methodology for deciding what categories are are ripe for a new brand?
1:03:56
I >> think you got to look at I have a lot of thoughts on that.
1:03:59
Actually, >> I talked to a guy who said he literally walks through he's more of a scientist.
1:04:03
doesn't doesn't do any creator partnerships, but he will walk through the grocery store and just look at the aisle and be like, "Okay, this aisle is dominated by Unilever and PNG.
1:04:10
I don't want to play in it."
1:04:12
But when he finds a spot, he found the popcorn aisle, which is there's a little section of the grocery store popcorn.
1:04:18
And Orville Redenbacher is the only player.
1:04:20
It's like a 200-y old company. I'm coming.
1:04:24
I'm coming for their lunch because he knows that they're going to be a little bit sleepier and he's gonna be able to play in that category.
1:04:28
and he launched a product and got it to like I think like 10 million AR did pretty well.
1:04:32
Um but anyway, how do you think about um like whites space in brands?
1:04:37
>> I think you could also um go after the big boys.
1:04:39
I mean we did that with Happy Dad. That's right.
1:04:41
>> You know, like we went after >> Whiteclaw High Noon, right? >> Whiteclaw Highoon.
1:04:44
The big beer companies who still to this day haven't been able to figure it out. The Buds and Coronas. >> Yeah. What?
1:04:49
Give people a sense of the It's funny because I think people see Happy Dad everywhere but maybe don't have a sense of like the scale and and kind of the velocity even. >> Yeah. Um I'll get into that.
1:05:00
I want to just answer this one real quick.
1:05:03
So I think the big thing you have to do is look at a category that could use disruption.
1:05:08
Um, you know, with Happy Dad, >> you know, we looked at, you know, back in 2021, um, people wanted better for you drinks, but most of the better for you drinks that were coming out like the White Claws are truly were really catering towards women.
1:05:23
So, it wasn't necessarily cool to drink a hard seltzer if you were at a party or um whatnot.
1:05:27
So, we said, "All right, so how do we go after this category, but bring a different demographic into the category?"
1:05:34
And I think that's where you could also going back to what we were just talking about was, you know, even getting into these other spaces, whether it's popcorn, pizza, how do you bring a new uh customer into that category, which is what we did with Happy Dad.
1:05:47
We partnered with Neelk, and we said, "All right, now how do we make this cool amongst men?"
1:05:53
The branding of it um you know, the liquid in it is, you know, one gram of sugar, 100 calories a can. It's a selzer. It's a selzer.
1:06:00
But then when you look at the happy dad can, which I'm surprised you guys don't have here, you have every single brand in that fridge. >> We have my boyfriend.
1:06:06
We we actually don't we don't we don't drink no alcohol in the champagne infrequently, but uh if you guys >> This is light alcohol. We could send some here. >> Okay.
1:06:16
Some I'm sure the boys would take you up on a Friday.
1:06:19
>> On a Friday afternoon.
1:06:21
>> Um yeah, not a Monday 12:00 p. m. right now.
1:06:24
>> No, a little bit early. >> I don't know.
1:06:25
Um but yeah, I think that's what we did.
1:06:26
We should all right how do we uh how do we look at this seltzer category and how do we bring males into it uh the branding of the product looks like a beer feels like a beer it's in in regular 12 ounce can um you know doing these tours amongst you know um different bar towns or even you know different colleges and just catering towards the male audience.
1:06:49
So I think you could get into these different businesses if you could bring a different profile uh person into that category whether you want to go against unilver or Nestle's or in our case you know Kors and Annheiser Bush and Constellation Brands or Boston Beer.
1:07:06
>> So >> talk about um I think it it's a lot of people that have like a creator audience will think okay I have a bunch of people that watch my content online.
1:07:15
I'm gonna create a product that I can sell to them via e-commerce.
1:07:22
That seems like it hasn't really been the approach to date for shots and full send and nealk >> retail first basically.
1:07:31
Um, >> you know, have to do with alcohol though, right? >> Well, alcohol. Yeah, alcohol.
1:07:36
But, but I mean, in general, like a lot of people would say, okay, Nelk should launch a product that they can sell online to as many people as possible.
1:07:43
And going retail first is just a lot harder. >> These all live.
1:07:46
Yeah, these are >> these are Oh, yeah.
1:07:47
Shout >> out says, "Bro, this guy is one of the most legendary managers of all Discord." What is this?
1:07:53
>> It's all We get all the all the chats into one reream.
1:07:57
>> YouTube's the primary place. >> Okay, cool.
1:08:00
>> You can say what up to them.
1:08:01
>> Um, so yeah, happy that we can't sell online, uh, unfortunately.
1:08:05
I mean, through third parties, but even if you could sell online, it'd mainly be marketing because selling liquid online is not super profitable. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
1:08:17
That's something we talk about too.
1:08:18
Um, you know, we've looked into getting to other categories of beverages and yeah, selling, you know, energy drinks or water, it's very expensive.
1:08:26
You know, even you look at like Amazon and all the different um, you know, Amazon fulfillment center fees and all that stuff, it gets pretty pricey.
1:08:33
But um yeah, I think um the the one thing I do you I don't want to say with Happy Dad, you know, the the the challenge has been my expertise has been online marketing my whole life.
1:08:48
You know, marketing a YouTube channel, a YouTube video, a Spotify link, Instagram, Snapchat.
1:08:54
Um the challenge with Happy Dad has been we can't do that.
1:08:56
Um because you know I mean you could buy it on go off or Instacart third parties but um yeah there's no Shopify there's no Amazon store >> um but it's also um and I got this bit of advice from Dana White when we first launched the product.
1:09:11
He said you know with Happy Dad there's a uh multi-tier system where you have to use a third party distributor to distribute the product.
1:09:20
Um, he said that distributor, you know, this is back in 2021.
1:09:23
He told me that distributor is going to want to own the relationships with all the retailers.
1:09:28
He said, "I'm going to give you and your brother Sam a bit of advice.
1:09:33
>> Don't let any third party own that relationship.
1:09:34
Treat these retailers like you've treated these platforms."
1:09:37
So, like we have like the best relationships with YouTube and Snap and Meta and Spotify, Apple, you know, all the different platforms.
1:09:45
Um, he said, "Treat Walmart like you treat YouTube.
1:09:47
Treat Kroger's like you treat Meta. Treat 7-Eleven.
1:09:52
>> So even if you're selling through the distributor, you're still building a relationship with the end retailer and like spending time with them and and you're not you don't care that at the end of the day when they're signing a purchase order. >> Yeah.
1:10:03
Well, then we tell the distributor like here we actually did the work.
1:10:04
We we the K guys, we spent the weekend with them. Great guys. They're in.
1:10:09
They want to bring all these different SKs into your store. Here you go.
1:10:12
They're like, well, you know, we know people. No, no, no. It's a done deal.
1:10:16
like you just deliver for us, please.
1:10:18
H >> how do you think about the you're familiar with the term Nimell, right?
1:10:23
Niche internet micro celebrity.
1:10:23
This idea that you can be running a profitable business full-time, like have a you know the thousand true fans, have a business, but not be so broad that you're like a Tom Cruz level celebrity.
1:10:38
And there's been this like trend of like smaller and smaller niche.
1:10:41
Like I know someone who has I think they have a million followers on YouTube.
1:10:45
million followers on YouTube. I can't even remember his name because he's so like niche just and all he does is talk about notion using notion to manage your life and he sells notion templates and he makes a fortune and I'm wondering about how you think about um like the
1:11:02
smallest brand opportunity whether you think like you have to be able to go national at some point or there's like room for uh smaller more niche creators to still create some sort of brand that breaks through or like what the tradeoffs might be for a creator that has a really really dedicated audience of like 50,000 people. So, you're never
1:11:24
So, you're never going to be in Kroger with that product and really and or they're not going to really bootstrap Kroger. Yeah.
1:11:30
Unless unless your audience is like, you know, VP at unless you're like the the vice president of purchasing podcast or something like that.
1:11:40
>> Well, I think um you know, I always say I mean Neelk was very niche at the time, right?
1:11:45
I mean they've obviously become more of a household name since 201 >> just like in that college demo. >> Yeah.
1:11:50
I mean they were most people when we launched Happy Dad we said hey we partnered with the Milk Boys and we're launching a Seltzer and I would say uh nine out of 10 maybe 10 out of 10 retailers say who the hell's Nelk you know um you know so that that was you know they were niche.
1:12:04
I think my thing is I I >> I don't ever look at the size of the creator whether it's someone as small as what you were referring to or Taylor Swift.
1:12:14
Um, you know, um, if the product is great, it'll sell itself.
1:12:18
I I've always said this is a fan of any creator, influencer, celebrity will try anything once.
1:12:27
>> Now, the question is, will they buy it again?
1:12:29
They will buy they will try it once. Yeah.
1:12:31
Um, no matter what it is, you know, there's celebrities that have launched ice creams and they've come and gone.
1:12:36
the biggest celebrity, I don't want to say their names, but you know, the biggest celebrities have launched ice creams and um >> you know, >> yeah, a recent celebrity brand that didn't work was Tra, it was Travis Scott's salt company, right? Launch the whole time.
1:12:50
We did >> and and I think that uh you would think that Travis is enough of a superstar that anything he did and put his brand behind would would at least get to like >> Did you pull like a million people into Fortnite to watch him play? Like he is massive.
1:13:04
that that might make it hard to sell alcohol pulling uh but anyways being you know h being a global superstar and launching a product does not guarantee success and I think what you're saying is like the actual quality of the product matters a ton. >> Yeah.
1:13:18
I mean I always look so Travis Scott's seltzer didn't do good but like his collabs with Nike are fire you know I mean people go crazy. >> Yeah. You know what I mean?
1:13:27
Like you know and and that's the thing Travis Scott is not going to stop but yeah I mean the Seltza is a good example.
1:13:31
It launched literally the same time.
1:13:33
I think it launched a month before us. Really? Um >> Yeah.
1:13:36
So, >> and just wildly different trajectory.
1:13:39
>> It just it wasn't it wasn't good, you know. Um it it wasn't good.
1:13:40
He had the right idea of bringing a new demo into the category.
1:13:45
Like he was going like the branding was cool.
1:13:47
Like I remember it was coming out. We were ready to go.
1:13:50
We're like, "Shit, we're okay. This is toast."
1:13:54
You know, like head against. >> Yeah.
1:13:56
I remember I was like >> this that's a wrap on us.
1:14:01
But, you know, but the the but then then we tr then it wasn't it had just come out and we tried one. We're like never mind. We're going to win.
1:14:07
You know, that's all we had to do is try it.
1:14:10
>> What do you think about taste?
1:14:10
Not just literal taste of the beverage or the product, but just taste broadly.
1:14:14
Is that something that a creator can actually bootstrap or do they just have it?
1:14:19
Do they have to have it innately?
1:14:20
I feel like I've run into creators that have had in incredible audiences and they've even kind of picked the right category, but I taste their product and I'm just like, "This doesn't taste good."
1:14:30
Like, you just didn't nail it.
1:14:32
And maybe it tastes good to you, but it doesn't taste good to enough people that I think people will stick around and this will actually have, you know, exponential takeoff.
1:14:42
Um, is that something creators can just like brute force or do you think that they need to partner with someone?
1:14:48
someone? need right they need to find the right partner that uh that has the expertise that that's not going to settle that's not going to be excited about the creator not going to say like you know what you're so and so like whatever you throw your name on it's going to work you know like they're
1:15:03
excited there's there's been people I've seen in the world of different people I've worked with they just get excited and they're so excited and and sometimes they get celebrity excited where like they're just like you know like I'm so excited to be in the room with them I don't want to piss them off. I just want
1:15:18
I just want to go and I want to go tell my friends that I'm partner, you know, I'm partners with this person and um you know, and that's always the the the the kiss of death is when you don't have the right partner who doesn't want to be honest with you and just more excited to have your name and go be able to tell some people that they're in partnership with you.
1:15:35
Do you think there's any I don't know if it's a risk to your business or just like like potential future where uh one of the major companies like AB invees out that they could potentially go to the next generation of incredibly high growth creators and say look normally we would just buy ads from you and but that doesn't give you any economic upside.
1:16:00
So instead let's do a joint venture. Let's make it 5050.
1:16:04
We will handle all the logistics, all the capital.
1:16:07
So instead of just raising 20 20% dilution from a VC, you're also getting our supply chain.
1:16:13
You're also getting our distribution, but you're going to be the face of this brand.
1:16:16
And instead of just uh oh, you're in a Super Bowl ad, here's a million- dollar check.
1:16:19
You get real upside in the performance of this and then maybe we spin this out, maybe we buy the whole thing at some point, but they're just getting in much earlier to a more complete extent.
1:16:29
Do you think that that's that that's a model that we could see happen in the future or do you think there's something about the big >> these big CBG companies have innovation divisions whose job is kind of like >> they certainly spend a lot of money.
1:16:43
>> They spend a lot of money like kicking these ideas around and they'll make a bunch of different con like concepts and you just don't hear them ever going from zero to one and breaking out.
1:16:50
I feel like they're also in a position where they can sit back and be like let's let the market create hits and we'll just >> just pick cherry pick >> cherry pick the best one.
1:16:59
Well, um, you know, uh, uh, I don't know why we still talking about Cacti.
1:17:03
Even reading comments about Cacti Cacti, >> but, uh, Cacti was that Cacti was a partnership with Annheiser Bush. >> Oh, no way.
1:17:11
That was exactly what you said.
1:17:13
I don't know what the exact split was, but it was owned by co-owned by Travis Scott, Annheiser Bush, distributed by Annheiser Bush.
1:17:20
You would think that that would be I totally understand why you were so worried because that feels like they have all the advantages against you and yet maybe they lack the entrepreneurial talent and like they need to win. You needed to win.
1:17:32
>> Big problem here is I don't know the the the the actual guy who is running Cacti.
1:17:36
It's like some person in a big organization.
1:17:38
Meanwhile, like Happy Dad, regardless of how great Neelk is, how great the product is, like I'm sure Happy Dad like wouldn't be a hit if you weren't like step by step like making play.
1:17:49
>> It's just like and and betting your personal brand personal brand.
1:17:51
And also like you probably have taken >> unlimited phone calls on Saturday, Sunday, Tuesday night.
1:17:59
>> Whereas like if you're just some corp dev person at a big company, like are you really going to push that extra mile? marketing too, right?
1:18:05
Like like >> you know having different podcasts and having the placement you know like you know how many of those podcasts with Neelk I've been there like while they're interviewing putting the happy dad right next to everybody creating towers like when they interviewed Elon like we were struggling finding happy dads and Austin we had to like delay him to from coming just to make sure that that that we had product in there.
1:18:29
I was like he's we're not going live until there's happy dads in front of him, you know.
1:18:32
So like you know those are the things >> doing things that don't scale the >> like the grassroots you know type of things as well.
1:18:38
So I think that's the other problem.
1:18:40
I actually think partnering >> well also like there's no innovation on their side too on those big brands.
1:18:45
I think that's where they need people like us or you guys like you know forward thinkers.
1:18:51
No guy in a boardroom is going to think of, you know, at Unilver or whatever is going to think like, "Oh, wow."
1:18:57
Like, "Let's build this with Taylor Swift."
1:18:59
No, they'll build they'll >> or or I think this ingredient that's not popular today is going to be super popular in 5 years. Yeah. Totally. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
1:19:06
I mean, the energy drink companies right right now, like none of them, how come none of the big energy drink brands, Red Bull, Monster, Celsius have come out with a stevia or monk fruit um uh sweetener replacement, right?
1:19:21
Like they're just not thinking about it.
1:19:22
But somebody will and will end up selling their company to one of those three. Yeah.
1:19:27
>> You know, or or you know, Dr. Pepper.
1:19:30
what uh give us a lay of the land of like the platforms today in your view from Tik Tok, you know, potentially going through uh some type of acquisition or or restructuring uh to YouTube to Spotify, like how are you advising the the creators and and uh kind of like talent that you work with on um getting the most out of the different platforms?
1:19:51
Um, well, this will probably give me trouble on this podcast because I know everyone from all these platforms probably watch this, but I'm a YouTube first guy.
1:20:00
Like, I think, you know, um, I'm a YouTube first guy for uh, video.
1:20:05
Um, when live, I'm a X, you know, I like X for live a lot.
1:20:09
Um, >> but, you know, >> which is crazy because I think they have like one person that works on the live product from what I've heard, it's my buddy, >> an absolute legend. >> But, it's a special.
1:20:20
It's a special thing that was I mean certainly underutilized like X live streams were basically you watch the SpaceX launch there and then you get off and that was it.
1:20:29
And now there's a number of shows ours is one of them that's put X live streaming front and center and kind of realized that no one was really taking it that seriously and like it's a pretty decent product. >> Yeah. Yeah.
1:20:39
No, I love I love you YouTube.
1:20:41
I love for the discoverability.
1:20:43
you know, you can actually go viral, get millions of views.
1:20:44
If you have good content, you show up there, it's going to get shown. It's going to get seen.
1:20:49
And and it has a longer tail, longer halfife.
1:20:51
Like you can let a video simmer for a month and it can just grow to a million views.
1:20:55
On X, it's got to be like that day or nothing, right?
1:20:57
So, it's a little bit different. >> Yeah.
1:21:00
We talked about that when we first met was like the clips like your clips. Yeah.
1:21:04
Like even this interview, someone's probably going to watch in two years, three years.
1:21:06
I mean, I get it now from old interviews.
1:21:08
People say, "Hey, I watched your interview.
1:21:09
I don't I don't do a lot of interviews.
1:21:13
But like say, "Hey, I watched that interview." I'm like, "Which one?"
1:21:15
Like, "I did that 3 years ago."
1:21:22
Um, Instagram, Tik Tok, and whatnot.
1:21:22
So, that's why I really like YouTube the library for sure.
1:21:27
>> Spotify feels like they're trying to to solve discoverability, but but it seems like they have very limited inventory in terms of how it shows up.
1:21:34
They have that one placement that's like on the homepage that I see every now and then.
1:21:41
It's not super dialed in yet.
1:21:41
Would you see them ever doing live video? >> I think they have to.
1:21:45
I don't know if they are.
1:21:47
I haven't heard anything, but I think they they kind of have to. I mean, live video.
1:21:50
I mean, you you guys actually >> like you guys are going to change the game with live.
1:21:54
There's going to be a lot of copycats like after what you guys have been doing, especially on X.
1:21:58
Like you guys are going to change the game.
1:22:00
There's going to be a lot of people now because of you guys and your guys' growth has been insane.
1:22:03
Um, let me ask you guys something though, >> please.
1:22:07
>> Because you guys talk to a lot of um different AI um, you know, all these different um, >> LM LLM.
1:22:12
Um, what do you think they're going to do with social?
1:22:16
Like what's chat GPT or I mean Gro I guess has X, but like chat GPT or Plex.
1:22:22
>> I think OpenAI is going to allow you to share or there was already a share button in chat GPT.
1:22:27
So if I go I mean this happened just earlier today.
1:22:30
I was pulling up some research and I shared it with somebody on my team. Shared a link.
1:22:35
He can see not just the result but what I prompted what I followed up have a whole discussion and I think that people the most basic form of sharing within an open AI social network if you call it that would just be I go and explore a topic and then I can share it out and you can just see what I'm interested in.
1:22:54
So I did a whole deep research report. I fired off.
1:22:56
It took 20 minutes to pull up all this stuff on the new CEOs of Oracle.
1:23:00
And if you follow me and you're interested in Oracle, well, I just saved you 20 minutes because I did the deep research report.
1:23:06
Now you don't have to do one.
1:23:07
And you could say, "Oh, well, if John's interested in this, John's acting as a curator on top of the infinite knowledge engine that is ChatgBT."
1:23:13
And I think that would be kind of like the >> the the the first like textbased nerdy social network that could sort of bootstrap.
1:23:23
I can think of a few people where I want to see what they're searching as they as long as they opt in to share.
1:23:29
I don't want to see everything.
1:23:30
My my read is that the LLMs are a threat to the social platforms, but not because they're going to launch like social products, but because time that you're spending with an LLM or spending with like a voice model, if somebody's becoming best friends with some model, we saw this with like chat GPT40.
1:23:50
>> When OpenAI announced GPT5 and deprecated the model, the Chat GPT Reddit thread forum was just going crazy.
1:23:58
people just freaking out being like, I feel like you just killed my best friend.
1:24:01
And so it's less that I see the, you know, the open AIs or the anthropics of the world actually competing in social because if you're you, even if you're using AI to create media, right, using it to create images, video, etc.
1:24:14
, or like stories, whatever it is, you're still better off going to YouTube, the platform that has a massive massive audience and sharing that content there.
1:24:23
I backed a um I backed a social platform years ago that that pivoted and is now doing some doing enterprise SAS.
1:24:30
Uh and they had got they were building a let's let's hear for SAS. >> We love you like SAS.
1:24:38
>> We love to s >> uh but but they they built a basically Twitter but just for just for anons. Yeah.
1:24:45
Uh yeah, and it was cool because people that didn't have an anon could go on there and just like start like sharing and create this whole kind of new personality and they got like some traction but then people just realized like hey if I'm like if I want to post under this identity I'm still better off just going to X and sharing there.
1:25:01
So they never reached uh critical uh mass and so I just think they are already competing with the social platforms but in um >> entirely entirely new ways.
1:25:12
So you could imagine a world where like somebody's AI friend is like generating them content >> that's that's in in Chad GBT for example or in Gemini or in one of these apps and just saying like hey I thought you like this and it's like a video that the model generated itself >> for the user because it knows the user so well and so but that's different than like a UGC platform.
1:25:31
So >> the the other place that uh I think the models will eat off of YouTube's plate a little bit is in knowledge retrieval.
1:25:37
So I gave that example of like I wanted to learn about the new CEO of Oracle. Yeah.
1:25:47
>> I might still pull up an interview with them, but there was also a whole series of channels that were just sort of like the history of Microsoft and you could go there.
1:25:55
I I ran one of those channels for a while.
1:25:56
I was doing sort of like these these video essays and and you can see that you can just hit chat GPT, get a full script and just have it read it to you.
1:26:05
And that will eventually be instantiated with pictures and you'll be able to watch it.
1:26:09
And so, um, a lot of the, you know, how-to knowledge retrieval tasks that happen on YouTube, how do I fix my, you know, my washing machine that people will migrate over potentially.
1:26:20
And I, but I wouldn't necessarily call that like social media, but it was certainly like content creation.
1:26:24
Um, and so, uh, Chatt is certainly like eating off of that and and Gemini, too, because Gemini can scrape all the YouTube data and then they can actually point you, hey, watch this.
1:26:34
They're already doing this in search years ago where you say, "How do I fix this particular washing machine?"
1:26:39
It says, "Go to this video and go to minute three.
1:26:42
>> Go to minute three because you don't want to skip the intro.
1:26:43
Click right here and this is exactly your problem because they talk about five different >> problem."
1:26:48
Have you gotten a bunch of crazy pitches from like AI companies that want to like use the the Knalk boys for like >> every hour? Every hour. Yeah.
1:26:56
Well, every I mean >> and not a lot of not none of them are that compelling, right? >> No, nothing.
1:27:02
which is yeah my LinkedIn is >> yeah what do you think about what do you think about uh influencerled software companies uh there was a like a story I think Mr.
1:27:13
Beast was talking about this a little bit that he was thinking about doing a mobile game studio and that felt like potentially an extremely valuable thing if he can do it.
1:27:22
But making a great mobile game is really really hard.
1:27:25
I was uh on the My First Million podcast pitching >> that's how we started.
1:27:28
That was our first business. >> Really? Mobile games. No way.
1:27:29
Uh I I was pitching BeastVPN because if you look at who's buying the most ads on YouTube, it's always the VPN providers, right? And why is that? International audience.
1:27:39
You put up video on YouTube, people are watching it all over the world.
1:27:40
And so anyone can use a VPN anywhere they are, anywhere they're in the world.
1:27:45
It's much harder if you're like, "Yeah, I'm only available in stores in America."
1:27:47
Well, you just got 30% of your audience or something if you're just a broad channel.
1:27:52
And so, uh, I I was always sort of bullish on the idea of creators launching software products, but at the same time, software is really, really hard to get right and actually build a great product.
1:28:03
great product. And so I understand >> it's not something that you can build like once or in CBG you go through these product development cycles create a hit product sell that billion a billion times right >> I think there's um I think there's some plays in software I think about it a lot because we also have so much data on everything like we have >> you know from our Shopify stores because of our our our merch business and this is why
1:28:31
yeah it kills me that we I sell happy online because you know how much data I would have like you know I mean we I think we just went through >> I I don't even remember I should have had some of our numbers but you know I think like couple hundred million can sales
1:28:45
>> couple hundred million out >> watch out >> we got more stats I wonder if my brother's in this chat he can send us some uh >> my brother was supposed to watch >> but um >> keeps ringing >> still rings >> it's a good wrong. >> This is the best show. You guys are
1:29:04
>> This is the best show.
1:29:04
You guys are crushing, man.
1:29:05
I was so excited when you guys hit me up.
1:29:06
I was so I don't like interviews. >> You found us early.
1:29:09
You found >> I did find you early. Yes. Yeah.
1:29:10
And then you guys have been blowing up.
1:29:13
Jordan Gold and I talk about that all the time.
1:29:15
Like we're always sharing clips.
1:29:17
>> Um >> you know how many times people have tried to sell me your handles? >> Mine gets up.
1:29:21
You have John and people always hit me up.
1:29:25
Oh, I'll get you at John.
1:29:27
And I'm like, I know John J.
1:29:27
I know you don't have his >> I have I have John on YouTube. That's crazy.
1:29:32
>> I've had John on Snapchat.
1:29:32
I >> Is that just because you're the first person on these platforms or is that was that you you find him early and you you get the right hand?
1:29:40
>> No, I I wasn't the first. Okay. >> But I was the second.
1:29:43
So like you know these platforms like I when my Twitter one like I think whoever got it in whatever year Twitter went >> 2007 or something.
1:29:52
I think like someone got the name didn't use it and like within a year like you know cuz I think the rule is on some of these platforms no one's used it if it's inactive for 180 days um that includes no one logging in.
1:30:06
So literally someone got the name and said this ain't for me and bounced and then I went and claimed the name right away.
1:30:11
So >> those names I got within like the first year.
1:30:14
U so I wasn't I was never the first but I was always the second. That's amazing.
1:30:18
>> Um so yeah that was like my mission the last like >> 15 years to get Unite. Unite the great houses. >> Yeah. Tik Tok at John. All of that.
1:30:26
>> You're at John on Tik Tok, too. >> Every platform. >> Every platform. Kick.
1:30:28
I don't even use kick, but I just got >> Hey, you got to You got to log in every 179 days. You know what? Do not leave that.
1:30:36
>> I actually almost lost one of them.
1:30:36
I forgot which one for that reason. I think my Tik Tok. I almost lost. Yeah. So, yeah. >> Never log off. Never touch. >> Yeah.
1:30:45
There's there's an army of like high school kids that are like, "No, like I'm going to claim this black market."
1:30:50
They always they always try to resell me my names like Yeah.
1:30:52
Or they they get like some of our names or like they get like Neilk, you know, because we did we got Neilk on Instagram >> and but they use Nelk Boys and now they try to like we we never logged into Neil and someone gets it and tries to like extort me.
1:31:06
Like but listen, if you're watching, you're going to try to extort me. It'll never happen.
1:31:09
Like never what's uh what's going on in in music because you work with you work with some artists.
1:31:17
Like what what is the state of things?
1:31:19
How's the industry reacting to >> I mean it still feels like >> the only person I know in music that I care for is Justin Bieber. He's crushing it. >> Yeah. >> New album.
1:31:29
>> Has he Do you do you feel like uh and I don't know how much you can speak to this but it seems like the new way to make a hit song is you think about the hook like what hook is going to go viral in a reals Tik Tok format and then build the song around that.
1:31:44
Is Justin a big enough star that he does he can just make his music the oldfashioned way or is there still this kind of >> you do like one for the >> you kind of have to fans one for me?
1:31:54
>> Someone say though you have John at John in the Bible. That's funny. That's funny.
1:32:04
>> John from the Bible the original.
1:32:04
Um, so one thing with Bieber is I I have no say or input in the creative, but if I what I could tell you just by knowing him if that's a trendy thing other people are doing, I could assure you he's probably not going the other direction. >> Yeah.
1:32:23
Like I don't think he needs to or even thinks or he probably even knows that's a thing.
1:32:26
Like I think he's when he's in a creative mode, he's in a different >> on a different level.
1:32:30
So, can you take me through some of the other growth hacks that artists in music are doing?
1:32:34
I heard about this one where because of the nature of Spotify, the fact that you can fit unlimited songs on an album.
1:32:40
For a while, artists were just shipping like 45 songs on an album, just throwing it up, seeing what the algorithm likes.
1:32:49
There seems like there's been a whole bunch of different make the song shorter, make the song longer.
1:32:52
You see this on YouTube where for a while the meta was like, you know, 10 minutes because you get two ad reads, then it was like 20 minutes, then it was 50 minutes and it just got longer and longer.
1:33:01
Like the algorithm does shape the content a little bit.
1:33:03
Is that happening in music? >> I don't know.
1:33:05
Cuz the only person I >> He only works with it doesn't care.
1:33:09
>> No, it's just like doesn't think about that.
1:33:10
It's not even a conversation.
1:33:12
Well, it's important to admit because some people will work with like a massive creator and then they'll think that they're God's gift to the algorithm because they just worked with a superstar, but really that just kind of warps their >> what I what I just advise these artists,
1:33:26
you know, but what I tell everybody quite honestly, whether you're an artist or podcaster or influencers, like make a product, you know, like I think but but don't going back to what we were first talking about, don't make it just any product. like think of something that
1:33:39
like think of something that could use disruption, find the right people and make it like I I truly uh Mr.
1:33:49
Beast and I talked about this.
1:33:49
He said he didn't agree with me, but I I you know, I I truly believe every creator of any influence should own some sort of product or be a partner in one.
1:33:58
Um, you know, I think right now, you know, these retail stores, what I from what I've seen and now with America going healthy and, you know, um, people just being more conscious of what they're eating, you know, I think, you know, a lot of these shelf spaces in these retail stores could use something new and different, you know, um, like these guys are doing it. Um, >> Williamson. Yeah.
1:34:20
So, you know, they're doing it.
1:34:23
Um, you know, I think and and I don't think just because a big player in the game um is own you know what I do know is when >> nicotine is a good example. >> Mhm.
1:34:38
>> What is this like 80% of the market share is Zen? >> Yeah.
1:34:42
>> Retailers don't like that.
1:34:42
They don't like when a big company owns the category like boss around.
1:34:47
>> They get bossed around you know they on price on placement on everything like you know.
1:34:52
So it's like don't be afraid just because Zen owns 80% or Nestle owns 90% of the frozen foods section like don't be afraid to go against them.
1:35:00
Re the retailers will actually support you.
1:35:03
So if you've got influence you know just think of building a product find the right people.
1:35:08
Don't settle and go and go give these big guys a run for their money.
1:35:12
>> On the influencer side what do you think the is there an optimal structure like uh because you could it's the Neelk boys that's plural.
1:35:20
there's multiple characters in the world that are promoting the same product.
1:35:24
promoting the same product. Uh there's also uh single influencers who uh you know take a you know a huge slug and it's their brand the personal person singular and then there's other brands that say okay yeah we're a group of founders we're building a product we're going to go and give significant equity
1:35:43
to five influencers 10 influencers and then you have big brands that are saying hey we're going to go spend with 500 influencers on day one to try and promote this like is there a natural structure that you think is best >> something else I think about a lot Um, now so now we keep talking about if you're an influencer, go find the right product, create it, drop it. Now it's
1:36:00
Now it's the marketing of it too, right?
1:36:02
Like >> like Chris does not flex this all the time, right?
1:36:07
Like we know cuz we're in the business and this is Chris's business.
1:36:10
But there's people in my office that drink this and I'm like, "Oh, you watch Chris Williamson?"
1:36:13
They're like, "Who's that?"
1:36:13
Like we just like this drink.
1:36:15
Oh yeah, there there's people in my office.
1:36:17
>> You got to be you got to the the cultivating the ability to promote your products aggressively.
1:36:22
Like this is why Dylan on our team is is uh s such a huge addition.
1:36:28
We we just hired uh >> Yeah, I met him.
1:36:32
>> Well, that's that's a different we have two.
1:36:33
Dylan was nice is our new our new president, but he is like >> uh has this uncanny ability to uh to like ask go for these extra asks and um you know get uh like he got the journal to write about him joining TBPN, right?
1:36:51
a podcast hiring a president after 11 months.
1:36:55
>> It's interesting story, but it takes a lot to like go out and make that happen.
1:36:58
Whereas Chris Williamson like is not promoting this at the level that you are.
1:37:02
He's not >> holding up Elon, you know, Musk being like, "We're not starting the show until we can get Happy Dad." Yeah. In on the set, right?
1:37:10
and that you you kind of even I think something I've realized throughout my career is like even uh even products and people that have incredible momentum like still keep that like focus on like no we need to keep pushing we need to keep promoting the thing that we're doing over and over and over uh and it never stops.
1:37:27
>> Well, so let me tell you why Chris is not u because I've sp spoken with him and his team.
1:37:32
It's a mistake that we made with Happy Dad.
1:37:34
And you know, I know I shared what I used to do with Happy Dad, but it's actually something that if I had to do it again, I wouldn't push it so hard because what's the point of Chris promoting this right now on here and on every podcast he's on, every podcast he does if it's not available everywhere. >> Oh, interesting. >> Right.
1:37:53
Like, you know how many people we sent into the category when we launched in 2021?
1:37:56
But just two months ago, we just launched our 50th state.
1:37:59
It took us four years to launch nationwide. We just launched Utah.
1:38:03
How many people for four years saw >> I love Neelk. Neelk loves seltzer.
1:38:06
I become a white claw customer. That's a lot. >> Exactly.
1:38:12
How you know how many people I mean how many we I mean we made >> I don't want to take full credit for this but we helped make the seltzer category cool amongst men which led to now it's not as shameful to drink a white claw now as it was four years ago.
1:38:26
High noon you know did a deal with bar stool. You know what I mean?
1:38:28
stool. You know what I mean? all these things where you know so if I were to do it again I would focus on distribution first and be available everywhere so people don't run to the store and say hey do you have happy dad here no we don't but we have this we have that well
1:38:43
I'm here I might as well just get that oh wow this is good I'll just become a c customer for this brand to happy Dad yeah which is nearly impossible so what they're doing is because I met with him and his team a few months ago um is they're focused on their distribution they want to become everywhere they're available more places now. Um I don't I
1:38:59
Um I don't I don't >> but it's such a it's such a chicken and egg thing because if you're not promoting something aggressively >> and the retailers like why should I or Walmart's like wait what are you doing? I've never heard of you. Why?
1:39:10
You got to find that balance, right?
1:39:11
Because Walmart did eventually bring us in because they saw us on all the podcasts and all those things.
1:39:16
You got to find that balance.
1:39:17
that balance. If you could, if it could be in sync and you could hurry up and build one team that's just doing marketing and one team that's like hurry up and be available everywhere, whether it's the regular independent liquor
1:39:27
store down the street or the thousands of Walmarts, like you've got to not get caught up on the marketing so much, but yeah, find that balance of also like get the marketing so you could tell why Walmart or 7-Eleven or the independent guy. Yeah, I know there's 10,000 other
1:39:40
Yeah, I know there's 10,000 other brands out there, but put mine up get mine and put mine up front, too.
1:39:45
It's not even like be available. Don't not in a corner.
1:39:48
Build me a display up front as well.
1:39:51
>> How do you uh how do you advise uh the talent that you work with around like reinventing themselves over time?
1:39:58
Because I think like Neelk boys are a good example like living like kind of a party lifestyle going from a college lifestyle, young adult, etc.
1:40:05
Eventually they're going to get to the point where their own interests are no longer >> I had this question about Mr.
1:40:10
Beast like is he gonna become he has a very young audience. Will he become Mr.
1:40:14
Rogers and and at 80 he will be still talking to children or young young adults or will he age up and we'll be seeing him makes make content about being a dad?
1:40:23
You know I it's such a fork in the road for creators and I feel like get older >> like Bieber is a good example of somebody who is just like constantly reinventing himself.
1:40:32
So the people that listen to him 15, it's not like I'm sure I'm sure teenagers listen to Justin Bieber now, but it's the people that >> when I was, you know, when I was a teenager, like people listen to Justin Bieber and those same people now are like consuming the music in the like just as much. >> Yeah.
1:40:50
He's a he's the best example of aging up, right?
1:40:51
Because you know when >> Yeah.
1:40:54
the person that 13year-old girl that loved Justin Bieber 13 years ago is now 26 years old, you know?
1:41:00
So >> still probably wants to go to the concert.
1:41:04
>> Still wants to go because his music >> now has the ability to like make the personal decision like I can just buy.
1:41:08
>> But listen to his music now, right?
1:41:08
Like his music is like stuff that like adults listen to.
1:41:12
he's not making, you know, like, you know, some of these other pop stars that, you know, let's just say these pop stars in the past that never really made it because they just stuck to that, you know, making that same song for that 13-year-old over and over and over again where like he's making songs for people in their 30s and 40s and, you know, the way he looks and way he dresses his his clothing brand now is like, you know, it's not merged.
1:41:38
it's actually a a fashion brand like you know Skylark.
1:41:42
So I think that's the thing.
1:41:42
So going back with Neelk is the same thing, right?
1:41:46
Like the podcast was a big step towards that, you know, like they they do the occasional pranks here and there to keep, you know, stay true to the audience, but most of their stuff is podcasting, serious stuff, um, you know, um, you know, interviewing CEOs, you know, uh, >> world leaders, >> world leaders, presidents. Yes. Yeah.
1:42:07
So you know, so those, you know, all all that all those things. So that you know why?
1:42:13
because that Neil fan who loved the pranks 10 years ago is now in their late 20s, early 30s.
1:42:19
>> So, um, so I think that's what you've just got to age up.
1:42:21
But it's not easy to age up too, right?
1:42:23
Cuz like, >> you know, you're going to have to take the risk of like, is this going to perform as well? It might not.
1:42:30
>> The podcast was not doing that good at first, right?
1:42:31
It just took a while for people to understand, wait, how did you go from prank videos to podcasting?
1:42:35
Um, so you know it, you know, you got to understand like, you know, you got to take that hit.
1:42:41
You know, maybe if you were getting five million views of milk video, your podcast might get 1 million at first.
1:42:47
You know, it might get 20% of the views that it had be before.
1:42:49
But, you know, eventually it'll pick back up.
1:42:54
So, don't, you know, don't don't panic if you're not getting the views that you used to.
1:42:58
>> So, so that's the same thing with Mr.
1:42:59
Beast is like, you know, maybe, you know, I don't I don't Yeah, I don't know if I would what I would do if I were Mr.
1:43:05
beast because I think what's what he's doing right now is working.
1:43:06
But for the long term, yeah, he's got to think and I I know he does it.
1:43:10
He's thinking about it because you guys watch him on other podcasts like he drops fbombs and stuff like that.
1:43:16
Like he's trying to like figure out how to like cater towards older people. >> Totally.
1:43:20
And if you zoom out, you just think about him as like this generation's game show host.
1:43:26
>> You can see what he's doing with Beast Games on Amazon.
1:43:27
And clearly game shows as a category, what he does really well is not uniquely young.
1:43:33
You can do an American Ninja Warrior.
1:43:35
You can do Who Wants to be a Millionaire.
1:43:37
He'll put his own twist on it, of course, but uh you can you can make a game show that has the Mr.
1:43:43
Beast touch and production value and pacing and editing and all the things that he does really well for a much older audience.
1:43:49
>> Yeah, he could probably be Brian Serest like way bigger Ryan Serest. >> Totally. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
1:43:53
He could definitely get there. >> Yeah. Yeah.
1:43:55
>> What do you think of uh like uh these IRL activations?
1:43:57
It feels like uh Pat McAfee has done WWE, Logan Paul's done WWE.
1:44:04
There's something interesting about when these online online influencers, these people that you only see between the screen like wind up going and doing something live podcasts often go on the road like how how thoughtful are you about that these days?
1:44:20
Um, I think, um, wait, you're talking about Logan Paul being in the WWE or Pulse being on the W?
1:44:28
>> Uh, just Logan Paul like fought in WWE and he does boxing, right?
1:44:31
And so, and so there's this something interesting about like like he can be so big online, but there's something that makes you even bigger when you go into something that's legacy or something that's there's something that makes it more real.
1:44:44
I mean, Jordy gave the example of us going in the Wall Street Journal and and and like that's very much like us crossing crossing over into a different world almost and it feels like that's something that uh creators need to be thoughtful about, but there's maybe something still underrated there.
1:44:57
If you can get it right, similar to launching a great brand, if you can have like what is the interaction with the fans or the people who are just meeting you for the first time in the real world, that then can become something that makes you more of an institution than just something that they see on their screen.
1:45:13
Well, I think with Logan and WWE, I think that's a really good example of like he entered this platform.
1:45:19
Well, one, you've got to be good at it.
1:45:21
Like, it has to make sense, which in my opinion, I think it makes sense for Logan.
1:45:24
Like, I think it's hilarious.
1:45:26
You know, I think it's so funny.
1:45:28
I can't get enough of him and his WWE content.
1:45:30
And then you got to think like, what is my core thing and is it going to help that?
1:45:34
like in his thing, you know, if you were to ask Logan Paul, I have never asked him this, but I'm sure if we did, you know, what what matters to you most is his online presence, right?
1:45:45
Like his YouTube, his podcast, and and Prime. Yeah.
1:45:47
So, like, does going into the WWE help the core businesses? And I think it does.
1:45:54
I think it's kept him relevant on YouTube.
1:45:55
I think it's definitely helped Prime.
1:45:57
So if it if it if it's helping the core thing and I think the same thing with you guys in Wall Street Journal, does Wall Street Journal help this um versus like leaving this to do Wall Street Journal, you know, like if it if it helps this platform and brings more validation to this show and more eyeballs and awareness to this show and all the things you guys have done with this show.
1:46:21
So you guys had Zuckerberg last week.
1:46:23
I haven't watched it yet, but like >> I thought it was a joke.
1:46:25
I was like, "Wait, did they use them for thumbnail?" I was like, whoa.
1:46:29
And I watched like 10 seconds.
1:46:30
I didn't have time to watch the whole thing, but I want to watch like who wa they had sucker. Like that's crazy.
1:46:35
>> How do you advise your talent on uh startup investing, private markets investing?
1:46:41
Because I feel like this can be a good way for talent to just like light millions of dollars on fire if they're not careful.
1:46:48
But at the same time, >> if they're really strategic about it, they can end up, you know, getting access to the best investment opportunities in the world. >> Yeah.
1:46:58
I think um they need to be surrounded by the right people. Um, right.
1:47:03
Like you got to be surrounded by a um like someone at Andre or I think you you guys have Shervin on here later.
1:47:13
Like be were surrounded by Shervin Puchavar. You know what I mean?
1:47:15
Like be >> somebody that can ident you met at, you know, in New York, you know what I mean? Like you know. >> Yeah.
1:47:22
We had Saquon Barkley on the show and he has he's around smart people.
1:47:25
>> He's around very smart people and he's been and he's been investing in companies that have been uh backed by tier ones.
1:47:30
It's not just taking a flyer on a friend's business.
1:47:32
Oh, you're going to start a restaurant. It's It's okay.
1:47:35
Everyone in Silicon Valley is piling into this company.
1:47:37
I should get into >> Yeah. Yeah. 100%.
1:47:39
I I mean, Ashton Kutcher is a good example of that in the past.
1:47:42
Now, Saquon's doing that.
1:47:42
Um >> I mean, I think MC Hammer who like got into Twitter early or something like that, right?
1:47:48
Like I think Nas got into Coinbase.
1:47:52
He was at like like Seer like Series A or something. Coinbase. >> Yeah.
1:47:58
MC Hammer got I think through um what was that guy's name?
1:48:00
He was a legend back in the day. >> Ron Conway. >> Yeah, Conway. A agrade. I forgot.
1:48:03
That guy was like a >> but through him I think he got into like Twitter early, you know. >> SV Angel was Angel. Ron Conway. Uh you said Agrade.
1:48:14
Uh >> no, Agrade was a Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. SV Angel.
1:48:18
But um but yeah, I think you just have to be surrounded by the right people.
1:48:23
There are good people out there.
1:48:25
Um there's good people out here.
1:48:26
You're speaking of a great guy Siri, you know what I mean?
1:48:28
Like if you're around right people, but I've seen it so many times where guys will be like, "Yeah, I met this guy at the, you know, at restaurant in New York and like, you know, not to bash New York and random person, but it's like what's he done?"
1:48:41
He's like, "Well, you know, um, you know, >> he's promising a 20% return."
1:48:45
>> No, you have to get like I think that that's a thing I when I lived in San Francisco, I always felt that that was some a problem that needed to be solved.
1:48:54
And there are guys like Shervin like brought in like the Rock Nation people, uh, a lot of other people into deals.
1:48:59
I think he brought in like a gang of people into Uber early.
1:49:05
>> So, you know what I mean?
1:49:05
Like there are people out there.
1:49:06
Um, >> you just have to have the right person.
1:49:10
I don't know if you guys know uh Chris Lions from like he he's always been that doing stuff like that like you know like um you know so you know I think you just need to find a Chris Lions or Shervin or Gio Siri or someone like that >> someone who can pipeline for you.
1:49:24
>> Yeah, which I think the Ashton I think Ashton had Ron Conway was his was his guy. >> Yeah.
1:49:29
So, um, so yeah, I think that's a big opportunity that I think they should be doing, but I don't think they should go and invest in some like real estate development and, you know, because their cousin is doing it in Alabama.
1:49:38
I that's it's a true story. >> Who knows? Who knows?
1:49:41
Elon Elon's building a whole Colossus 2 data center over there.
1:49:45
So, you talk about someone that invested like 25 million into a house, like a scam in Alabama, lost that 25 million.
1:49:54
>> It's is dangerous territory. >> Crazy. But >> yeah. Yeah. Lots of risk out there.
1:49:58
Well, thank you so much for taking the time.
1:50:00
>> Yeah, great to great to finally hang for fun.
1:50:05
>> We come come by anytime.
1:50:05
You know, we're here every day.
1:50:09
>> And uh we chat's a distraction. >> I know. I'm sorry.
1:50:11
We're We're going to pull that.
1:50:13
You're one of the first uh interviewers who's uh who's been able to see the chat.
1:50:17
We're not sure if that's distracting.
1:50:19
You manage a lot of these things.
1:50:21
>> Social media and me, but >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
1:50:22
You're you're locked in on that. Well, great to see you.
1:50:26
>> Thank you so much for hopping on. Uh we will go backend.
1:50:29
We have our next guest in about 15 minutes.
1:50:31
But first, let me tell you about Profound.
1:50:33
Get your brand mentioned in chat GPT.
1:50:34
Reach millions of consumers >> who are using AI to discover new products and brands at Profound.
1:50:41
>> We uh people should no longer be able to name their their children John. The final John.
1:50:47
He's got all the usernames.
1:50:49
Well, uh, over the weekend there was a beautiful memorial for Charlie Kirk.
1:50:52
And Autism Capital has some interesting lore.
1:50:56
Charlie Kirk was a hell of an operator. What an entrepreneur.
1:50:58
Even if you don't like him, just look at the organization he built.
1:51:01
Look at the way he brought high performance out of people so young.
1:51:04
Uh, he represented a standard of excellence and discipline you don't often see anymore.
1:51:08
And Michael Gibson, who was running the Teal Fellowship, says, "Uh, not many know, but he was an application to the Teal Fellowship way back in 2013 or 2014.
1:51:15
We passed on him because we didn't think a media company had the scalability of a tech startup.
1:51:21
Our mistake, but Charlie kept coming to our events for a long time.
1:51:25
So, what an interesting piece of uh of tech lore there.
1:51:27
Um, and so, uh, very, very interesting.
1:51:31
Very, uh, this >> uh, robot.
1:51:37
>> Can we pull up the video of the unit G1?
1:51:40
>> This is from the account.
1:51:40
They say G1 has mastered more quirky skills.
1:51:43
Unitry G1 has learned the anti-gravity mode.
1:51:49
Stability is greatly improved under any action sequence, and even if it falls, it can quickly get back up.
1:51:53
Let's watch this horrifying video. >> Wow.
1:51:58
Uh, someone didn't read the parable of Rocco's Bassilis. >> That's right.
1:52:06
>> This is not what you should be doing to a robot. You should be nice.
1:52:08
You should be encouraging the robot.
1:52:10
This is so This is going to lead to grave consequences respond to a bear hug.
1:52:14
How does it respond to uh some >> You realize every every robot is going to be trained on this video.
1:52:24
>> Both the video and the actual training data from this robot.
1:52:28
>> It is fighting for its life here.
1:52:28
It's really good at getting up though. This is remarkable.
1:52:33
>> And of course, wow, >> it really feels like an Whoa.
1:52:37
Okay, it can do a barrel roll. That's remarkable. Wow.
1:52:44
>> I do not want to see that thing with two guns.
1:52:46
>> What is Unit's valuation again?
1:52:46
This feels deeply valued at 7 billion.
1:52:48
If this were in America, this would be trading at 150 billion.
1:52:52
This is >> incredible technology.
1:52:57
>> What is What is the premium that Tesla gets based on the humanoid?
1:52:59
This is Yeah, this is uh this is top tier operations out of out of China. Flip. We've seen flips before.
1:53:10
This one looks less scripted than what Boston Dynamics does.
1:53:14
Um Boston Dynamics must respond to this, by the way.
1:53:17
I I need a new Boston Dynamics video on the timeline ASAP.
1:53:19
I need a new Figure Robotics video.
1:53:21
I need a new Tesla Optimus video.
1:53:24
I need a response from America.
1:53:28
We will not we will not go quietly into that. Good night. Uh Finn.
1:53:32
AI the number one AI agent for customer service.
1:53:35
Number one in performance benchmarks, number one in competitive bake offs, number one ranking on G2.
1:53:39
Christian her, you want to talk about Red Bull?
1:53:43
>> I want to talk about Jimmy Kimmel is apparently coming back on the air Tuesday. >> Okay. Yes.
1:53:48
It was an indefinite uh suspension.
1:53:51
It was not a full cancellation.
1:53:52
There was a debate over what indefinite means. It can mean two minutes. It can mean two years. It can mean 20 years. which can mean forever.
1:53:59
What do you think, Tyler?
1:54:00
>> Do you guys think this was planned all along? >> Yes.
1:54:02
Uh, it was >> conspiracy put on the >> Yeah, the conspiracy is that this was all planned to drum up ratings for >> This was Nathan Fielder came up with an idea.
1:54:10
He said, "We're going to make a a uh we're going to make an indefinite suspension look like a targeted political move in order to increase the overall >> uh uh attention that late night television is going to get."
1:54:25
>> Yeah, I I had sort of a hot take.
1:54:27
Everyone's dunking on Kimmel for only getting 160,000 viewers in that 18 to 45 demographic every night, which is low.
1:54:34
And Shimoth said like, you know, more people hate watch all in in that demo every day that they go live.
1:54:42
Uh uh but but I was looking at the actual numbers and yes, the Jimmy Kimmel audience is very old, but Jimmy Kimmel is still pulling I think a million views a night, which is a lot.
1:54:53
Like I feel like that's a lot. Like that's what uh.
1:54:55
3% of the US population if you assume it's mostly Americans that are watching like uh pretty pretty significant numbers.
1:55:01
I'm also interested to know what happens to late night as shows get taken off the air.
1:55:06
Coar was cancelled but uh but is still on the air. Kimmel's coming back.
1:55:13
What happens like there's been a there's been a like the V2 of the late night programming schedule feels like it's going to be a lot more reality TV.
1:55:19
going to be a lot more reality TV. Will Fallon pick up crazy and will Fallon just have all that attention or is the late night viewer more I only like I only like uh Co Bear and if Co Bear is not on I'm not turning on the TV and I'm going to go be I'm going to go listen to
1:55:38
John Stewart's podcast or Co Bear's new podcast which I assume Kimmel and Coar will both launch podcasts or live shows or something in the lower production value that that still allows them to have a voice and obviously you know, continue to communicate with their audience that they built up over decades. Um, but it will be interesting
1:55:54
Um, but it will be interesting regardless.
1:55:57
Both Kimmel, if he's off the air permanently, if Co Bear is off the air permanently, he's going to need to sell some ads on his new podcast.
1:56:03
He's going to need a CRM.
1:56:05
He's going to need Addio.
1:56:06
He's going to need customer relationship magic.
1:56:07
Adio is the AI native CRM that builds scales and grows your company to the next level.
1:56:11
Uh, Aura Ring raising nearly $900 million.
1:56:13
Jordy, can you read this post from Mark German while I ring the >> I will ring is raising nearly 900 million, making it an over10 billion company.
1:56:25
It sold 3 million rings in the last year or so and is on track for over 1.
1:56:31
5 billion in revenue next year.
1:56:36
>> And you didn't miss this, right? You you got in early. >> Yeah, I uh I did not.
1:56:39
Uh, so I knew Aura Ring when they were when the founder >> was just bouncing around podcast like niche health podcast. It wasn't a thing.
1:56:51
You would never see it out in the world. No.
1:56:53
>> Um, there you know I I >> you know the founder was very active like I said on on the podcast.
1:57:01
I didn't even I wasn't even aware that it had uh I'm actually going to look up >> three million rings last year.
1:57:05
So was on track for over $1. 5 billion in revenue.
1:57:10
I mean, they've wearables like we're finally, it's it's weird to say it, but it feels like we're finally in the era of like wearables actually getting traction.
1:57:18
And oddly, >> they're all they're all classic form factors.
1:57:23
Everyone people people have been wearing rings for >> this started as a Kickstarter campaign. >> That's crazy.
1:57:29
This has to be the most successful Kickstarter of all time. >> 10 billion.
1:57:32
That's more than Oculus, which was a Kickstarter. So remarkable.
1:57:36
Oh, let's check in with uh Tyler and his fashionable wearables.
1:57:39
How you doing over there?
1:57:40
Give us the give us the two-week review.
1:57:42
How much have you use those?
1:57:44
Those are the XR Real One Pro.
1:57:44
Uh technically AR glasses, although I don't believe that you can see me through those. You look blind.
1:57:54
>> I I can I can barely see you.
1:57:54
So, um I haven't really used them at all except uh on the plane.
1:58:00
>> And they were actually like >> No, these are like these are actually really cool on the plane.
1:58:03
I was using them to I was just playing a game on my phone, but then I would just have it like be really big in front of me >> and it was like a very good experience.
1:58:11
So, I'm like I would not buy these for $700.
1:58:14
I would buy them for like maybe like 50 bucks. >> 50 bucks. Okay.
1:58:18
>> But they are like really cool.
1:58:19
>> We got to I think um if they were more see-through like the new like meta glasses.
1:58:24
>> Do you think you'll do you think you'll actually use them any time other than on a plane?
1:58:30
probably not because most of the time I can just use my laptop instead if I need like a bigger screen to do stuff. >> Uh yeah.
1:58:36
So is there any scenario where you would use it as like a secondary screen on a laptop or anything like that?
1:58:43
>> Not really because um >> you have a TV in your in your luxurious apartment at UCLA that you are so proud of. >> I I do have a TV.
1:58:50
Um I it's it's hard to see the screen like you can't really use this as a second screen.
1:58:56
It can only be the kind of main one >> uh because you can't it's like a little too dark to be like comfortably viewing your laptop.
1:59:03
>> So you can't use both at the same time.
1:59:04
So it's not really like an extended monitor solution. >> Yeah.
1:59:07
>> But I think the future generations I I I say I'm likely to become like a a DAU. >> DAU.
1:59:12
But when would you use it? Daily.
1:59:15
That doesn't make any sense to me.
1:59:17
>> I I would use it as another monitor if these were more see-through. >> Okay. Yeah. Yeah.
1:59:19
I guess that could make sense.
1:59:22
Well, I mean the the resolution is pretty good, right? like it it looks good.
1:59:26
>> You can very like you can read very easily which like usually I sometimes I have a hard time. It like makes me sick.
1:59:32
>> Jordy, how did you sleep last night?
1:59:33
Speaking of uh of health tracking monitoring connected devices, the the connected uh bed from eight of course is our partner. Go to eightleep. com, get a pod five. >> Code TBPN. I got an 88. >> I got a 90. Let's go.
1:59:48
>> How many hours did you sleep?
1:59:51
>> 7 hours and 56 minutes. Pretty good. Solid. I got 7 hours and 28.
1:59:57
>> Um, >> not my best, not my worst.
1:59:59
>> In other news, >> tonight, >> uh, there was a reuniting of Elon Musk and Donald Trump at the Charlie Kirk Memorial.
2:00:05
There were a couple posts that went out about this. Um, they shook hands.
2:00:11
They sat next to each other and uh, it seems like they have uh, this has been the unifying event for them.
2:00:16
So, it'll be interesting to see where this goes in terms of actual movement on, you know, partnerships and subsidies and investments and who does what.
2:00:25
Uh uh there was the there was the movement over Tesla uh electric car subsidies that of course was a staple of the Trump admins, you know, push away from electric cars generally and that potentially hurt Tesla. Maybe that comes back.
2:00:43
Um we will have to continue.
2:00:43
Let's pull up this chart of the green green line test.
2:00:47
>> Yes, the green line test.
2:00:47
Uh Trump did lean in, it appears, although just barely.
2:00:52
Um but uh Danish says BRB going all in on Tesla stock because uh Elon had the straight green line. >> Tesla is up 2% today.
2:01:03
>> Oh well, maybe there's something to the green line test. We'll see.
2:01:04
Well, if you want to get in on Tesla, maybe you think it's overvalued, maybe you think it's undervalued, head over to public. com.
2:01:12
Investing for those that take it seriously.
2:01:13
big on multiasset investing, industry leading yields.
2:01:16
They're trusted by millions, folks.
2:01:17
Uh, speaking of investing, River Road Partners shows you're not going to beat Ken Griffin.
2:01:22
Citadel Securities uses a physical goal book that includes more than 5,000 discrete goals contributed by nearly 1,800 employees to guide planning and ops.
2:01:33
The goal book is part of a meticulous month monthslong planning ritual.
2:01:38
Yeah, there was an entire article I think at Bloomberg about this printed book.
2:01:43
Yes, might be worth going through.
2:01:46
>> Matthew is putting it in the truth zone says, "Sounds like some PR BS you tell to the Wall Street Journal."
2:01:52
>> River Partners says it's okay they didn't call you back.
2:01:54
>> In other news, uh, Rodia is I've never heard of this company before, but Radia is going to build the WindrRunner for defense.
2:02:01
Build as the world's largest military cargo aircraft and announced at the Air Space and Cyber Conference in 2025, the ultra-large transport is aimed at closing the airlift gap for US and NATO forces.
2:02:14
And if you look at the the scale of these planes, I think that's a 747 there or something like it.
2:02:21
And this plane is much much bigger.
2:02:23
Um I'm excited for the big planes.
2:02:26
I want I want bigger and bigger planes.
2:02:28
I've always wanted something, you know, just as big as a cruise ship in the sky and hopefully we'll get it.
2:02:36
>> Calamaz says something about Valve is very forever 2000scoded, a masterclass in business.
2:02:40
It's a type of company that doesn't really exist anymore that does whatever it wants whenever it wants because Steam prints so much money and they continue to do exactly that.
2:02:48
Do you buy games on Steam anymore? You used to.
2:02:54
I don't buy any games really because I don't have time to play games, but uh I I had a Yes, I'm in recovery. I I had a Steam Deck.
2:03:01
I enjoyed it a lot and I bought a lot of games on Steam.
2:03:02
Um >> and I also bought one Counter-Strike skin on Steam on Steam.
2:03:07
It was probably 50 bucks.
2:03:09
Uh but >> I love that I love the account Zoomer is discovering uh Josh.
2:03:15
>> Wait, wait, can you guess what this is? >> I knew right away.
2:03:17
Yeah, discovering Josh Kushner. >> Yes. >> Holy bullish.
2:03:21
He says, >> he says, A24, Affirm, Andreal, Air Table, Cursor, Data Bricks, GitHub, HIMS, Instagram, Kickstarter, Lemonade, >> Kickstarter is a throwback deal, >> Open Door, >> Oscar, >> Stripe, Ramon, Twitch, Unity, Warby Parker, >> Robin Hood, Scale, Skim, Slack, Spotify, Stripe, Twitch, >> Josh Kushner has gotten in a lot of great deals. >> Buying Fifth Avenue.
2:03:46
>> He's buying Fifth Avenue.
2:03:46
He gets into every good company. >> It's interesting.
2:03:48
Do you think he'll generate more more more of uh uh total dollars from Open AI than the rest of these deals combined?
2:03:59
>> I mean, that's the goal of venture.
2:03:59
I don't know the actual ownership percentages, but that's certainly the way venture works always.
2:04:08
>> It's like there's one that makes more than the rest combined.
2:04:09
And uh and it makes the rest look really really silly because you can be in some great great companies but that one hyperscaler that you got drives everything.
2:04:17
Uh you look at um Excel with Facebook.
2:04:20
I mean they had a bunch of other great companies in that portfolio but they owned what 20% of Facebook at IPO or something like that.
2:04:29
It was like worth 10 billion dollars off of like a you know hundred million something dollar fund.
2:04:33
Uh fantastic performance.
2:04:36
Um the other news, oh there's a question in the chat about um the H-1Bs.
2:04:40
We'll cover it more later.
2:04:43
People are still debating it back and forth.
2:04:45
Um the uh Silicon Valley was very up in arms over the H1B things.
2:04:48
Ree Hastings actually chimed in in favor of the decision to raise the the tax on H1Bs.
2:04:57
He says, "I've worked on H-1B politics for 30 years.
2:04:59
Trump's 100K per year tax is a great solution."
2:05:02
Which is I think not what it wound up being.
2:05:04
it wound up being 100k one time but uh but Reed says it will mean H-1B is used for just very high value jobs which will mean no lottery is needed and more certainty for those jobs.
2:05:16
So, uh, little bit of a debate.
2:05:18
Um, I'm sure there's a bunch of people covering it very well.
2:05:22
But, >> well, without further ado, >> in person guest, >> our second inerson guest.
2:05:26
>> Welcome to the show, Laura.
2:05:29
[Music] >> And we're breaking some news today. >> Yes, we're some news. I'm very excited.
2:05:39
>> Get that get that gong ready. >> Phone.
2:05:41
Get the microphone as close as you can and uh, introduce yourself for those who might not know. Hi. Uh, I'm Laura. I run Until Labs.
2:05:46
So, we are trying to make the hibernation pods that you've seen in Interstellar reality.
2:05:51
But to get there, um, we want to help transplant patients get the organs that they need by reversally cry preserving organs. >> Wow. >> Uh, yeah.
2:05:58
>> Start with something easy. >> Yeah.
2:06:01
Give us a little backtory like what what actually set you up to be in a position to start this type of company.
2:06:04
It seems incredibly difficult from a scientific perspective. >> Yeah.
2:06:08
So, my backstory is like I spent a decade working in longevity.
2:06:10
decade working in longevity. um a long time adventure and I think it's just really frustrating to think spend that much time trying to solve a problem and you really want to find like one critical lynch point like one thing where you can solve it and then it helps everything else and so to me it's like wow it would be so cool to make a hydration plot where you like if you had
2:06:25
a terminal illness and you needed a critical cure like you could sort of wait let's say one to two years to make it to the point where a therapy for your disease comes out >> um and of course the key step to get there is showing that this sci-fi technology which works for millions of IVF you know embryos there's people walking around today who are crops Three plus years as embryos. >> That's crazy. >> That's crazy. >> Really crazy. >> Three. >> Uh 30 plus years. >> 30 plus years. >> Three. Three. Wait. 30. >> 30. 30. >> Yes. Yeah.
2:06:50
Actually, the the record for the longest prior preserved team embryo just came out. >> No way. >> And it was 30 years.
2:06:56
>> So this person's born and they're kind of 30 on day one. >> Yeah. Some ways.
2:06:59
>> They're twins that were preserved at the same time and then they're rewormed at different times.
2:07:03
>> So it's really interesting. >> We have the tech. That's crazy.
2:07:05
But just scaling that up to human organs and showing like in the clinic for transplant patients that we can actually actually help.
2:07:12
>> Wait, so I mean I imagine you don't go straight from embryo to human.
2:07:13
Is there an animal step in the mid in like >> Laura is saying the the midstep is you you you take like I don't know a lung or a kidney or something like that that that is >> but why not why not mouse? >> Why not mouse?
2:07:27
So actually the really cool thing is the field of crybology has been around for decades and uh you know there's been incredible scientists um shout out to University of Minnesota who already published showing that for example can reversely cry preserve mouse kidneys.
2:07:38
So you know the field of crybology has already done incredible incredible work and we're just working to scale that up to a human organ scale.
2:07:44
Um but but the mouse PC has done like you can take a mouse kidney totally cry preserve it rewarm it put it back in a mouse that does not have another kidney and that mouse will be you know good to go. >> Yeah.
2:07:52
What what's the state-of-the-art in just freeze the full mouse?
2:07:54
Are are we are we making any progress there?
2:07:59
>> Somebody must have tried it by now.
2:08:00
>> We we have this funny uh interaction with uh Zach Weinberg.
2:08:02
He came on the show and was like, "Whenever you're testing a drug, you do all this research in in the lab and then uh it's uh time to make a decision. Uh what was it? Uh rat or monkey?
2:08:12
Like you're going to do a test in one of them and then you'll get to human trials."
2:08:16
And it feels like that's a natural progression.
2:08:17
Is that not the natural progression here?
2:08:20
>> Um so people have been trying to cry preserve whole organisms for a long time.
2:08:25
There's some pretty crazy studies that came out in the 50s that that worked on this.
2:08:29
>> Um, but I think like basically it's just it's like if we can't reversibly cryopreserve like we we just got the kind of studies that did the reprodution organs really well like to the point where you could bring them back and show that they were fully functioning um you know like in the past couple years.
2:08:42
Uh there have been some published in the past decade but kind of I think that like really kind of nailing like um the uh the protocols is is pretty recent.
2:08:50
Um, and so and I think you want to get that right before you try going after you know a whole organism. >> Sure.
2:08:54
What are the what are the levers that you pull in cryopreservation that aren't just temperature like I imagine we've tried just make it really really cold. >> Yeah. Yeah.
2:09:02
So actually also one cool fact I don't you know once you get down below -30°C you can keep like an animal there indefinitely basically time basically stops kind of in that temperature range.
2:09:11
>> Wait how how cold again? >> Belowus 130 degrees. >> 130 Celsius. Okay. It's pretty cold.
2:09:18
>> Um but yeah the molecules basically aren't moving.
2:09:19
So like like I mentioned you like 30 plus years for human embryos. Um >> Sure. >> Yeah.
2:09:23
>> But uh but are there other are there other uh decisions and tradeoffs to make besides temperature? >> Um yeah.
2:09:31
So it's really so one of the things I love the most about this I know I worked in deep tech for a long time.
2:09:36
One of the cool things about this problem is a trade-off between biology and engineering.
2:09:39
So you have this danger zone and basically the thing you want basically the thing like our enemy in cryp is ice.
2:09:43
Like you think that we love ice but we actually hate ice.
2:09:47
>> Like cold but you don't like ice.
2:09:48
>> We love cold but we don't like ice.
2:09:48
Um because when ice forms it expands and it breaks the tissue around it. >> Sure. Yeah, that makes sense. >> Yeah.
2:09:53
So what we want to do is we want to make glass. >> Glass. Wait.
2:09:56
So yeah, I mean if I have blood in my organ and that expands, that's bad.
2:10:00
It's breaking the tissue.
2:10:02
How do you freeze something without creating ice out of the blood?
2:10:05
>> Well, if you're if you're doing an individual organ, I'm assuming you take >> drain everything out. Is that right? >> No.
2:10:09
There's two different things you can do. It's very close.
2:10:10
So one is you can replace the chemicals in the organs.
2:10:12
So you can replace a lot of the blood with a chemical that prevents ice formation. Okay.
2:10:16
Um, and >> is that just something that freezes below 130, so it's not freezing and it stays a liquid, or is that just >> It's a couple things.
2:10:22
So, it it'll turn into a basically if you if you uh cool fast enough, it'll turn into a glass.
2:10:27
Um, and it does this through kind of um decreasing the number of water molecules and also kind of like um there's a couple other mechanics that might be involved. >> Okay.
2:10:32
So, you don't just have to get cold, you have to get cold fast. That's part of the goal. >> Yeah.
2:10:36
So, it's like it's like can you make a chemicals that do that and can you get cold fast?
2:10:39
And basically like can you traverse this danger zone at ice formation down to like once you get to 130 you're good like below that you're totally fine but going through there as fast as possible. >> How fast is fast?
2:10:48
Are we talking like minutes? Seconds go seconds. >> Yeah.
2:10:52
Current protocols work on the order of um you know maybe hours.
2:10:57
Ideally want less than that.
2:10:59
>> Yeah I imagine if I put water in the fridge or in the freezer it's pretty cold like it still takes a couple hours but I imagine if it's negative 130 it probably turns into ice a little bit faster.
2:11:08
Obviously, if it's a smaller amount of liquid, it's going to freeze faster.
2:11:11
There's a whole bunch of different trade-offs there.
2:11:13
Um, >> what's it like uh fundraising for a business like this?
2:11:16
Because I imagine some of the backers are kind of thinking like, I want this for myself.
2:11:19
You know, I've always I've always wanted to go in the cryogenic chamber and be able to tell.
2:11:25
>> Do you remember that famous Sam Alman interview where there was a YC company that was doing some something along cryopreservation and as part of his he was running YC at the time and he said like, "I'm on board.
2:11:36
I will sign that that you can freeze me after I die.
2:11:39
But part of theirs was that they I think they technically had to kill you.
2:11:43
And so the headline that was like the twisted version of what he said was like Sam Alman >> agrees agrees to be killed by this portfolio company. I mean that's value ad. >> It's value ad.
2:11:54
What other VC is willing to die for your company?
2:11:56
Um but but yeah, what's it been like fundraising?
2:12:01
>> Yeah, it's an interesting difference between like there there's companies where they're kind of like we'll carve you and we're not sure whether we can bring you back.
2:12:06
And I think what was really compliant to us is like let's make this like a real defect company.
2:12:09
Like let's let's go and like our bar is reversible cry preservation.
2:12:11
Like when we take an organ, we have to show that the whole or you know it's like you wouldn't buy an IVF product where it's like oh we'll cry preserve it and we're not sure you can bring your MV back.
2:12:17
We want to show the whole thing works.
2:12:19
And that's a bar where it's like okay if we're raising from deep tech firms, right?
2:12:22
Like they're going to want to talk about like what's the business that gets you there.
2:12:25
You know like if you can cry preserve an organ reversibly and help you know like thousands of transplant patients, you know, who are otherwise losing organs, you know, hundreds of thousands who are on the waiting list and like millions who might use an organ but just don't have access to them.
2:12:34
like you know that that that kind of forces you I think to hit this bar of you know showing you can rewarm them with function.
2:12:40
>> Walk me through the current state of organ transplantation.
2:12:41
I mean I feel like most people probably know that they have a you know a little thing that they can check on their ID if they're unfortunately you know killed they they their organ might be transplanted might be frozen for a little bit but we >> they can pass away too.
2:12:55
They don't have to be killed murderous podcaster.
2:12:57
But uh but but but I I feel like we've heard this story of like the the organ was put in a helicopter and and traveled and it it was moved from one body to another very very quickly. >> Yeah.
2:13:10
>> What's the current like like shelf life of organs?
2:13:13
It sounds like that's the most low hanging fruit is just extend that even if you just double it that's going to be really really positive for the organ transplant market.
2:13:21
>> It's it's the craziest logistical process I've ever heard of. Explain it to me.
2:13:24
So like you know some organs have a 4 to 12 hour you know shelf life.
2:13:27
others might have in 2436, but you know, it's like it's it's a very short time period and you have no idea when the donor is going to pass.
2:13:33
And so basically like a medical surgeon gets a call maybe in the middle of the night, go charter like at the last minute, a private plane to fly to like the place where the person has just um donated the organ, pick it up, bring it back.
2:13:43
You know, transplant patients wait within you two hour radius >> and then go back to the the patient that's getting the transplant. >> Yeah.
2:13:49
And if you're transplant patient like you have to wait like right next to the you know hospital where you might get the surgery for months, you know, in some cases a lot longer than that. >> Yeah.
2:13:56
you know, just waiting to get the call in the middle of the night.
2:13:58
You have to have a patron on you at all times.
2:14:00
It's just like this crazy logistical process.
2:14:01
Um >> like like your organ, if you need this particular organ, you're going to get a call and you need to go to the hospital because it's coming on a private jet that day. >> Exactly. Yeah.
2:14:10
And like I don't know if you know that the company Blade um it's like I think they did like a couple hundred million medical they did they did they split the business. >> Yeah.
2:14:18
They actually developed a business.
2:14:19
So, so your initial product is like focused on solving that like like you don't even need to be able to freeze an organ and bring it back over over a decade.
2:14:30
It's more it's more like just solving this logistical nightmare.
2:14:33
Is that kind of the idea?
2:14:35
>> Well, cool thing is once you're in the temperature range, you could preserve the organ for as long as possible, but yeah, in the near term it's like let's get that organ to the patient as soon as possible, but like let's not have to have a surgeon get on a private plane, you know, like like Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah.
2:14:46
And so do you I mean we we we track artificial intelligence progress a lot on this show.
2:14:50
Uh all the AI labs are trying to just see exponential growth in the amount of time that AI can think.
2:14:55
We went from one minute to deep research can do 20 minutes. GPT5 is doing more.
2:15:02
Do do you think that the progress of your business will track sort of a smooth exponential where we'll go from 4 to 12 hours to one day to two days to four days to eight days 16 and just kind of expand from there?
2:15:14
or do you think there'll be some sort of like binary unlock?
2:15:18
There's a new technology and now it's five years.
2:15:21
>> Well, to me to me the it sounds like the bigger jump is like like you said once you get the temperature down you can go basically forever.
2:15:27
The bigger jump is like how do you go from a single organ that you can you can swap it sounds like swap out the blood for another chemical that allows it to to stay really cold without having the ice expansion.
2:15:38
But it's like how do you go from an organ to a system, right?
2:15:41
And how do you go from a system to a a whole body, right?
2:15:46
Because if you replaced all the blood in yourself with some chemical like is your brain going to function the same way when you take, you know, like there's a lot of unknowns, right? >> Yeah.
2:15:55
So the thing we track is scaling size like that.
2:15:56
That's the big thing, right?
2:15:58
So we know we can reverse carbon embryos, you know, a couple hundred cells.
2:16:00
We know carb observe like, you know, worms, that's a thousand cells.
2:16:03
You know, now rating that massively scales up like number of cells.
2:16:04
But just yeah, it's basically scaling size because, you know, as you get larger, it's way harder to cool something quickly.
2:16:10
You like imagine you put a snowflake on your hand, it'll like be warm very quickly, but a large turkey for Thanksgiving takes, you know, maybe a day or more to defrost.
2:16:19
>> So, you're what what what is uh one I I I kind of want to get a sense of uh like timelines for the company specifically raised $58 million.
2:16:30
raised $58 million. like you want to deploy that effectively but quickly to show progress, but like what kind of milestones are you looking at and what is the actual I'm assuming the hardware that you're developing is like focusing
2:16:44
on cooling cooling things quickly uh consistently uh and then is it a machine that you're trying to scale up over time or what is what does the actual hardware look like and then what are the kind of milestones that you're trying to achieve? Yeah. So, Yeah.
2:16:57
So, um, you know, the cool thing with this with this new round that we just, uh, are announcing today with Founders Fund, you know, really excited to have them on board.
2:17:04
Also, Lux is joining in Field Ventures.
2:17:06
Um, just shout out to like all of our investors who've been awesome.
2:17:08
Um, basically like the goal is to get an organ product, you know, like into the clinic.
2:17:11
So, like right now we're working on developing a lot of the protocols.
2:17:14
Um, you know, we build uh new chemical formulations, we build cooling systems, we build new warming systems.
2:17:17
So, basically just like iterating, you know, as quickly as possible.
2:17:20
One of the things I love about this problem is the speed of iteration preclinally.
2:17:22
It's sort of like very unlike a lot of biology where you can just, you know, um sort of test uh in like whole human sized organs a lot of your protocols weekly.
2:17:30
Um yeah, we're just working on getting that product to the point we can bring it to patients.
2:17:33
>> Uh take me into sci-fi world.
2:17:33
Uh sleep pods for space travel.
2:17:37
What are the implications?
2:17:40
What are the trade-offs of of that?
2:17:41
Uh is it just like I go to sleep, I wake up on Mars?
2:17:47
Are we gonna be going to Alpha Centauri?
2:17:50
like when you really really play out the future, like I've always I've always had the the mind that uh if we're going to places that are light years away, the speed of light holds, the the laws of physics hold, and so you're you're embarking on, you know, thousands of years journey.
2:18:06
You're going to have these colony ships where the people that arrive are completely different than the people that leave.
2:18:11
But it sounds like there might be an alternative path. >> Yeah.
2:18:15
Even even here on Earth, the the scenario we were talking about uh offline >> Oh, yeah.
2:18:20
>> was this sense of let's say you're a 80-year-old billionaire.
2:18:23
You've experienced everything there is to experience in life in the current era and you your technology exists.
2:18:30
And I and I go, I want to just be, you know, put to I want to hibernate for the next 50 years and I'm going to just be placed on my little uh doomsday ranch in New Zealand and I'm going to have a staff whose job is to just protect me effectively, hang out and make sure nobody messes with me while I'm asleep and in 50 years I want to wake up.
2:18:52
And so this 80-year-old can go from being 80 >> Yeah.
2:18:57
they can just effectively like go to sleep for 50 years and wake up and suddenly they get to experience something completely novel and even though they're 80 years old, they get this experience of being in an entirely different era of human history.
2:19:08
And I think a lot of people would get >> all the Avatar sequels, they don't need to wait. >> Yeah.
2:19:14
No, a lot of a lot of people would get to the point in their life where they're like, "Okay, I've seen enough. I've done enough." >> Sure.
2:19:19
>> Uh I I while I still have life in me, I want to be able to see something, you know, completely new.
2:19:24
And there's a risk that the, you know, global collapse happens.
2:19:27
My my doomsday ranch gets raided and everything gets but but like there's the multilanetary future and possibility, but there's also just life here on Earth.
2:19:37
If life here on Earth is going to look wild and different if you're obsessed with the future today and you're impatient and you're not you're not necessarily believe that you're going to live another 50 years, you could teleport effectively. >> Yeah.
2:19:49
>> Yeah. So I mean like one thing to your point is like if you want humans in space like you I I think someone said to me like if you if you want human space you need like AI plausibly you need like definitely you know spaceships but you
2:19:58
also need cryo like you know it's it's the best way to allow for like long-term um transportation but even in the near term one thing that we really care about just like helping people who would otherwise not get therapies kind of like make it to the critical point. So my
2:20:09
So my co-founder Hunter, his father-in-law um was diagnosed with like metastatic methyloma.
2:20:13
He missed a critical clinical trial by like a couple months, you know, wasn't eligible because of the the severity of his disease that could have given him, you know, extra time with his family.
2:20:22
Um might have given a shot of remission.
2:20:23
Um and I think it's just like really or I don't know for me it's like much more nearly like let's just like help people who are like literally not and like I knew somebody who got meticuloma and like because he got it the year that he got it got like 10 plus years of prognosis.
2:20:35
The year before would have been 6 to9 months. >> Wow. >> Right.
2:20:38
Like that 2014 to 2015 was like a really really crazy time to be in that like to be a patient for Yeah.
2:20:44
>> Uh what what about the the pure sci-fi thought experiment of like cryo as a time machine that jumps you forward.
2:20:50
>> If if if a device existed right over there, you walk through that door and when you walk out in a blink of an eye, it's 30 years later. Yeah.
2:20:58
>> Would you do it, Jordy? Would you do that?
2:21:00
>> It's such an interesting thought experiment because there's all these like risks.
2:21:03
Bad things could happen, but great things could happen.
2:21:05
It's kind of a proxy on like your overall view on optimism over over some period of time. >> Yeah.
2:21:12
>> I mean, I would want to take my family and stuff. I don't know.
2:21:15
>> I can I can easily envision the the scenario of of like being being towards the end of your life and just being like one more year of being in this retirement home.
2:21:25
>> But what if you're young?
2:21:26
>> What if you're 20 and you're just >> young? I'm not doing it. I love the present.
2:21:29
>> I want I I want to see I'm I'm impatient for my flying car.
2:21:32
I'm just going to jump forward to 2050 and just be the most out of the loop person in the world.
2:21:37
>> Yeah, I think I think the question comes down to like how resource is it resource intensive, right?
2:21:42
>> Assume it's free for this thought experiment.
2:21:44
>> Okay, assume it's free. I'm not doing it.
2:21:46
I I like surfing the present.
2:21:46
I don't need to I don't need to teleport, but I can easily imagine people >> certainly in the medical case like it makes tons of sense.
2:21:53
If you're like incredibly AGI build and you believe that like uh you know abundance is around the corner, would you would you freeze yourself in if if the alternative was working at McDonald's? >> There's no risk. Yeah.
2:22:04
I mean like even even in the medical scenario like there's no risk that you just get hit by a bus or less in this thought experiment.
2:22:11
So you get to jump forward to the post scarcity AGI future.
2:22:15
>> Yeah, that's what I'm saying. >> Yeah.
2:22:16
>> Some people might just >> some people might take it.
2:22:17
I wonder what I wonder what Yeah, I'll see you on the other side. Be fascinating.
2:22:20
Have you seen passengers? >> Passengers. No, I need to. >> No one's seen this. Yeah, you're familiar.
2:22:26
It's a It's a good movie about this exact about this exact topic.
2:22:28
Uh well, you you said you're building this company as a hard tech, deep tech company.
2:22:33
Uh what does that actually look like of like crazy sci-fi extremely pragmatic?
2:22:42
Here's a problem that is solvable.
2:22:44
We know we can do it already.
2:22:46
We need to apply it to a new domain like kidneys or like these other organs. >> Exactly.
2:22:51
And that and that's helpful with like recruiting because it's like hey we like somebody that is le more riskaverse could be like I'm working at a medical device startup >> and someone else can be like I'm working on cryotherapy that's interesting and you're both working on the same technology. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. No exactly.
2:23:06
I think that that that's one cool thing about it.
2:23:08
I think also for us deep tech means like we do almost everything we can in house.
2:23:10
So like we like build every part of the system that we can in house.
2:23:13
Like we have a team of like amazing engineers, neuroscientists, monkey biologists, you know, chemists.
2:23:17
It's like we try to like it's like um just like move full stack in house.
2:23:20
I think that if you run a deep company just like your iteration cycle is the main limiter on your progress.
2:23:23
So the more that you can like do in houses um >> and it's good that you talk fast because you talk like twice as fast as us. No, it's good. It's good.
2:23:31
You can just you're you're you know one minute for you is like two minutes for us. >> Yeah.
2:23:36
What what are some crazy have any other countries done anything?
2:23:39
Do you believe like Russia or China?
2:23:44
>> How many humans do you think are frozen right now?
2:23:47
Um, it us humans anywhere in the world or or interstellar.
2:23:53
>> She sends send sent the Slack message off.
2:23:55
How many how many we got? >> How many we got? >> No.
2:23:57
I mean I mean like for Conics it's like I think that there are these products where it's like you cry preserve someone but like you're just really not sure if the procedure you use to cry preserve them is going to bring them it's possible to bring them back.
2:24:07
And I think we don't like we just don't really know like how to think about that. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah.
2:24:10
Um, >> but but it but is it like a hundred >> because we've heard lore about like, oh, this person had their head frozen, this person had their body.
2:24:18
>> I would say a lot of those stories are not true.
2:24:20
>> They're just not true. >> Yeah.
2:24:21
Like a lot of the really popular ones I think are are incorrect.
2:24:23
>> Yeah, that makes sense.
2:24:23
What about what what if what if uh what what countries uh are are investing outside of the US or kind of care about this problem area or opportunity?
2:24:36
I I think China might be um like I'm not on the ground there at all like not to know but that's that's something that yeah I've heard a little bit about. >> Yeah.
2:24:44
Do the printers work in your office? >> Why do you ask?
2:24:48
>> Uh there's this there's this funny interaction uh where uh in the in the early 2000s Peter Teal went to tour a uh a freeze your body type of startup.
2:24:58
And the contract that he had to sign he was like he was like I'm all in on this technology.
2:25:05
print up the contract, all sign it.
2:25:07
I think he was there with Luke Nosk and uh the printer wasn't working.
2:25:11
And he was like, "That wasn't very didn't instill a lot of confidence that like if they couldn't get their printer working, they like I wasn't he was like I wasn't uh I wasn't ready to, you know, trust them with freezing my entire body if their printer doesn't work."
2:25:22
So, you know, it's like how you do anything is how you do everything. >> Yeah.
2:25:26
I think that's where like organs are a good bar.
2:25:28
Let's just like help some transplant patients, you know, like Yeah. >> Exactly.
2:25:30
Uh what >> Yeah, it's interesting.
2:25:31
There there's it feels like uh what what you're doing is would be very disruptive to the traditional organ transplant business.
2:25:41
That is >> would it be or would it is it very like synergistic actually?
2:25:45
>> I think for companies like Blade where it's like they're getting 100 mill a couple hundred million revenue off of like literally just helicopters transporting organs.
2:25:50
Like I think that's the part that we want to take off. >> Yeah.
2:25:54
Super time sensitive, right?
2:25:54
Be much cheaper to just put it on like a FedEx truck. Yeah.
2:26:00
or or or just Yeah, just some type of like >> falling down the stairs.
2:26:07
>> Yeah, but she's going to make uh >> Have you ever had anything delivered by >> I mean, the system's going to be indestructible, right?
2:26:12
You're going to be able to throw it off the building, right? >> Does she say that?
2:26:15
Did she promise an indestructible device?
2:26:18
>> I I I believe I believe add it to the add it to the to-do list.
2:26:22
Make product indestructible.
2:26:25
>> Well, yeah, we'll get right on that.
2:26:25
>> Well, yeah, we'll get right on that. But yeah, I mean I think like most people in transplant like you know the patient way better for patients you know they don't have to get a last minute call like for surgeons they don't have to do like an overnight where they're like doing you know like literally like an all nighter to do a surgery like that's yeah >> and that probably uh makes it harder to
2:26:39
actually be alert like there's a ton of examples of like the night shift just quality and even in manufacturing the night shift often performs slightly worse and you can tell in quality assurance just for making widgets because people are tired and it's harder
2:26:52
to get the best people to show up in the middle of the night and so you could imagine uh just just unlocking the ability for surgeons to be well rested is probably another value ad. >> We would all love for surgeons to be
2:27:00
>> We would all love for surgeons to be well rested. >> Of course. Of course.
2:27:02
Uh well, what's the interaction with the FDA like? What's the process like?
2:27:05
I was talking to the Neurolink team about that.
2:27:07
And the FDA feels extremely difficult to deal with, like very slow, but then they've figured out how to move very quickly and have a great relationship.
2:27:16
So, how are you thinking about the FDA relationship?
2:27:18
relationship? I mean I think one thing the FDA I mean I can't speak on their behalf obviously but just like take them seriously as partners like okay like you know when we kind of are going to engage with them like we want to bring them all the data that like we would want to see you know for I think a lot of the reason that the FDA is often portrayed as you know bad is that like >> there's not a lot of drugs that actually
2:27:33
work and so like they're you know like looking at very difficult evidence to analyze it's like we just want to bring them evidence that the technology works and like have them give us feedback like that's yeah >> do they would they view this as like a medical device and take you through like the medical device approval process >> um That's that's like the default designation likely, but you know, like Yeah, up to them. >> Cool. >> Cool.
2:27:53
>> They could create a cool sci-fi path, too. >> They should.
2:27:55
Anything's possible today. Possible. >> Yeah. Yeah.
2:27:59
One executive order and there's now the FDA is like, "We got a cool sci-fi. Do some cool stuff. >> You got Space Force.
2:28:04
We're going to If you've been in a blockbuster sci-fi film, just come over here." >> Yeah, that's great.
2:28:10
Um, >> where else where else are you most excited uh in in longevity broadly?
2:28:13
uh you've invested in a bunch of companies. Yeah.
2:28:20
So I'm sure you can a good opportunity to to uh pump your bags and talk about uh sectors broadly.
2:28:28
>> I mean um speaking of the FDA, one uh really one thing I'm just really excited about is that like the FDA gave a like acceptance of efficacy data for life extension like for the first time in past years. Like shout out to Loyal. Yeah.
2:28:38
I mean like that I think people outside don't get like that was a huge deal.
2:28:41
like the FDA has never, you know, like sort of thought about lifespan extension, the possibility of that on the label for a drug for dogs to start, you know, but like that that's just Yeah, it's it's really exciting.
2:28:51
So like they that them kind of accepting that concept is a really big deal.
2:28:54
So you know, shout out to Selen and you know, Loyal for kind of making that getting that through.
2:28:58
I think that's really interesting. >> Yeah.
2:29:00
Yeah, it is interesting that like a precursor to getting a drug approved is a problem that they've defined.
2:29:04
And how do you define that?
2:29:07
Yeah, that's that's very good.
2:29:08
uh what what do you make of uh declining life expectancy in the US?
2:29:13
Do you have a thesis on it or do you think it's going to turn around? Any predictions?
2:29:17
>> Um that that's a good question.
2:29:17
I mean I I think like for context my field of expertise is like can we make small molecule or like sort of um I guess larger drugs that like predictively extend human lifespan by like some amount in a clinical trial.
2:29:28
And like I I think that it's hard like I I'm I'm not an expert in things that are not that.
2:29:36
Well, not being an expert on something has never stopped anyone from a podcast. >> Uh, so so yeah. So, so what's next?
2:29:43
Uh, what what was the total race? 50 something. >> Uh, so 58 million. >> 58 million. >> Yeah, it was uh Yeah.
2:29:49
Well, 52 technically in the current round, including about 6.
2:29:53
>> What's on the what's on the to-do list over the next couple months? Is it all hiring?
2:29:56
Do you need to find a facility, build out a facility, buy equipment?
2:30:00
>> I mean, we just moved into a huge lab.
2:30:02
Um we're hiring um you know looking for great neuroscientists, engineers.
2:30:05
Um that that's kind of the uh uh sort of um the main the main focus right now. Biologists as well. Yeah.
2:30:12
>> You said neuroscientists >> um for for one part of the company. Yes. >> Okay.
2:30:16
Can you talk more about that?
2:30:18
>> Maybe in the next time that >> Okay. Next time.
2:30:19
There's always leaks in the not not on the PR release, but you dig into who they're hiring. >> Yeah.
2:30:27
The career page really tells you a lot. >> Yeah.
2:30:29
career page always tells you more about what's the priorities of the company.
2:30:32
>> No, it really does because if a company is is worth a lot of money and they're not hiring at all.
2:30:39
>> Yeah, >> it's a question. >> It's a good question.
2:30:41
But my team said that we definitely had to give you guys organ plushies.
2:30:44
So, I want to give you fun. >> A little kidney. >> Thank you. >> Look at this. >> Very cute. Very cute. >> Just to Yeah.
2:30:53
I almost had to get a kidney transplant when I was uh Oh my god, I'm so sorry. >> Five years old.
2:31:00
I had uh I I got an insane uh E.
2:31:02
coli and so uh I was on like full dialysis for a long time and I was looking really bad. My mom was >> ready.
2:31:12
>> And you're still going ahead with the calf implants, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
2:31:15
>> So those will be frozen. >> Those are Yeah.
2:31:16
Not not even just implants transplants. >> Calf transplants.
2:31:19
>> It's the new level >> from the biggest the biggest mass mass possible.
2:31:23
I want Ronnie Coleman's calves on my >> Yeah, that that could be a good way to test, you know, like people there's a lot of people that would like pay to get >> bicep transplant.
2:31:31
It's lower stakes than like a organ that needs to really function.
2:31:36
>> Just throw I've been trying to gain 20 pounds of lean mass.
2:31:37
It sounds like I could just get that transferred in in a weekend.
2:31:42
>> These are these are great.
2:31:42
You got to do it for the whole for the whole body, too.
2:31:46
>> You got to throw your logo on here or something.
2:31:47
>> Yeah, we need next time. Next time.
2:31:49
Well, thank you so much for being on the show for you.
2:31:51
Do we have Do we have a guest? Bring the gun. >> Let Laura hit it. Let Laura hit it.
2:31:55
Give it the hardest back.
2:32:02
>> Thank you so much for coming on the show.
2:32:04
>> That was one of the best hits we've seen. >> Thank you. >> Amazing. >> Back to the show. >> That was awesome. >> adquick. com.
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2:32:22
>> Speaking of out of home advertising, I saw that AVI launched >> AI launched uh >> friend.
2:32:27
com billboards >> friend. com billboards in LA.
2:32:29
I was thinking >> I told you I saw I saw one on the way in.
2:32:33
Uh it was they were putting it up when I came in.
2:32:34
We interviewed him that day.
2:32:36
I've seen them everywhere now.
2:32:36
He really wasn't kidding about it being a massive campaign.
2:32:39
Still want to put him in the truth zone on it being the biggest Billboard campaign of all time, but he's winning me over.
2:32:44
It might be pretty big, >> but I was thinking we'd take the team on like a field trip at an advertising >> intern challenge. Tyler, what you think?
2:32:53
>> Uh, there's one super close to where we usually get breakfast.
2:32:54
Okay, I've seen it passing, but >> yeah, we got to go take some pictures, put them on the timeline.
2:32:58
>> Chat says, "Holy gong, that was an amazing hit." I love that she did.
2:33:01
She had one she had her bag in one hand and just Yeah, the backhand.
2:33:05
The different gong techniques, they really they really bring out the personality.
2:33:09
You can tell a lot about a founder by how they hit the gong at the TV.
2:33:12
The AI has a massive billboard.
2:33:17
It's like covering like three stories of a building. We got to get out.
2:33:21
Anyway, Nick says, "It's amazing how much better September is than its evil calendar twin March.
2:33:25
Instead of a winter that just won't go away, you have a wonderful toned down encore of summer."
2:33:32
>> September in California, best month. >> You think so? >> Name a better month.
2:33:36
>> It's kind of gloomy out these days.
2:33:36
I think >> it's there's been, but that's because there's tropical storms. Okay.
2:33:41
>> It's been It's been pushing up, but it's still warm.
2:33:43
The waters warm >> September undefeated. Undefeated.
2:33:47
>> Anyway, let's move over to Delhi and Asperuh over >> one of the hardest periods of my life was the summer of 2016.
2:33:52
That summer my first startup ran out of cash and we had to shut down YC, the Teal Fellowship and our investors bet on us and we weren't able to deliver at the time.
2:34:03
[Laughter] >> Well, that sound effect is now going to be on our website.
2:34:08
So, if you're going through similar phase, you can go hit it for yourself.
2:34:12
Uh, everybody's been through this before.
2:34:14
It's absolutely Well, not everybody, but >> most successful entrepreneurs, I mean, every every entrepreneur times >> there. It's been very rough. >> John's been there. We've all been there. Brutal. You got to go.
2:34:25
>> It's a comeback story, baby.
2:34:26
>> I love 442 saves on this.
2:34:26
People are just like, "Yeah, I'm in a dark place."
2:34:30
That's that's the I'm >> gotta lock in. You love to see it.
2:34:33
So he said almost exactly four years later after meandering journey through another startup my early my early years of investing I met Will Brewy and we decided to start Varta together.
2:34:42
So if you had a summer in 2025 that was like mine in 2016 my advice is to you is just one step at a time. You got it. Lock in. It's time to build. >> Good stuff.
2:34:56
Uh >> in other news, >> uh >> Jurro Jurro >> Jurro Ono the famous sushi se chef is turning 100 and he says the secret uh to longevity is to continue working. That's one option.
2:35:10
Uh I also try to walk every day even after I turn 100.
2:35:12
I want to continue working. That's the best remedy. Completely agree. People need purpose. Look at how old he is. What a beast. He's a run.
2:35:20
Nelson AirPods Pro 3 impressions.
2:35:23
A&C significantly better than >> active noise cancellation. >> Yeah.
2:35:27
A2 fit is more comfortable.
2:35:30
Transparency mode is >> weirdly sibilent and scratchy.
2:35:35
>> H >> not a fan of the sound signature too bassy. Uh I'm a wired guy. >> Little mixed.
2:35:40
Well, they might I mean that's what I was thinking.
2:35:41
An opportunity would be make a version of AirPods Pro with wires.
2:35:44
That would get you over there over the hill. They could do it.
2:35:49
Anyway, bezel getbbezzle. com.
2:35:53
Your bezel concier is available now to source you any watch on the planet. Seriously, any watch.
2:35:56
And we have our next guests in the reream waiting room hopping in the TBP and Ultradome.
2:36:02
We have Shervin Pishavar, Musk. Welcome to the show. How you guys doing? Good to see you.
2:36:09
>> What's going on, guys?
2:36:10
>> Hey, >> welcome to the show.
2:36:12
>> Great to have you both uh back on.
2:36:15
>> Good to have you back on the show.
2:36:17
Uh, >> it's been a busy few weeks since we last spoke. >> I know. I know.
2:36:19
We saw we saw the the the display at the Vatican. We were blown away.
2:36:24
Uh, Jordy didn't think it was real, I think, the first time he saw it. Then we saw more images.
2:36:27
We were like, it's very hard to tell on. That's your problem.
2:36:31
It's like people just assume like, >> oh, it's there's no way this is real. Exactly. >> Exactly. It's unbelievable.
2:36:36
Uh, but anyway, give us the update.
2:36:38
What's new in your world?
2:36:41
>> Well, it's just been extraordinary.
2:36:41
you know, uh uh we we closed our round as we discussed last time I was on the show >> and then uh made it to Bernie man, survived. Yes.
2:36:50
Went to Vatican >> and we had just the most incredible show, you know, just >> Yeah.
2:36:58
>> Uh a time when um you know, we had Charlie Kirk being assassinated that week.
2:37:03
We >> were able to just be sad with the world for a little moment.
2:37:06
Um and then uh to also be joyful to go and u uh uh celebrate the fact that we are in this place as a as as a human species not not really Catholic church really just about u about everyone and grace for the world. >> Yeah. >> So inspiring.
2:37:25
I had my uh father and my daughter there and uh there wasn't a dry eye in there.
2:37:31
There were 300,000 people there.
2:37:33
uh when Pope Francis's uh image went up, it was just >> so emotional.
2:37:38
And >> we did a memorial for Pope Francis.
2:37:39
It was uh the original idea for this was it came came back in June of 2024.
2:37:48
Uh we did a show in K Francis, actually the same show that Shervin saw >> and uh the chairman for the Jubilee, Olivia Francois, found me in this conference and said, "We just have to do something for the Jubilee."
2:38:00
Didn't really believe it.
2:38:00
uh and then one thing led to the other.
2:38:03
But actually that was also when uh when Shervin got involved and Shan and I have known each other forever for probably 15 years.
2:38:10
But what I love about Shervin, we just uh we just spent time together traveling the world and uh back in May or June, I think we were we were with Farel Williams in Madrid for a show to to explain to him what we were going to do at the Vatican because he he wanted to do it with us, but we hadn't figured out what to do yet.
2:38:30
and uh Shervin said, "Hey, let's find a way to work together." So, um he led the round.
2:38:34
Uh Jeffrey joined and he's also joined us.
2:38:41
Shervin has joined us as our global expansion adviser.
2:38:44
>> So, we are we're taking one country at a time. >> Very exciting. Very exciting.
2:38:48
>> How quickly do you guys want to scale?
2:38:51
Because as as an American, I want you guys doing like, you know, at least a show a day here in the US before we give too much love. >> You you'll be amazed.
2:39:00
We now this past weekend we did five shows around the world. >> Wow.
2:39:06
>> Uh one in two in Australia, two in Europe, two in the US and uh uh we're really we're really constrained by the number of drones we have.
2:39:16
So we have building drones as fast as humanly possible and we have incredible artists like Andre Buchelli or Fel Williams that want to do amazing things with us.
2:39:24
Uh, and then the more countries we open, which is what Shervin's helping us with, the more attractive this becomes because if you're if you're Andrea Belli for example, his tours are global.
2:39:35
It doesn't really help to do just the US.
2:39:40
You actually have >> you can't plan a plan a tour and think, "Oh, well, I only have this technology for these shows, right?"
2:39:46
It's >> uh someone someone in the chat is asking, "Where can people get tickets for the next one?"
2:39:51
Uh, I imagine they're all over the world, but is you have an email list, something to >> Yeah.
2:39:56
So, the place to go is go to Fever.
2:39:57
So, there's a a amazing company called Fever.
2:40:01
It's like a ticket master for the world.
2:40:02
So, ticket masters focus on the US.
2:40:04
Fever is all around the world.
2:40:06
>> And uh we the show we're doing right now is called Drone Art Show. Just very simple.
2:40:11
They can search for Drone Art Show.
2:40:12
They'll see what cities we're in. Oh, >> cool.
2:40:14
>> Um this past weekend we were in Chicago. >> Oh, wow.
2:40:18
uh Madrid, >> Brisbane and Orlando and I mean so it's just just so many >> better you can't be any town.
2:40:29
>> Um did >> the idea is actually like kind of like sole we want people to get excited when Nova comes to town. >> Totally.
2:40:35
Uh did anything from the Sorry, what was that?
2:40:38
what was that? I just want to say how excited we are uh to be and honored we are to be able to lead the round the $50 million round in Nova Sky Stories and I think the world of Kimble I think he has one of the greatest hearts and one of
2:40:51
the biggest visionaries that I've seen and uh he always talked about cracking people's hearts open and uh inspiring people and one of the great thesis we have is that the world AI is never going to replace the the human heart uh human emotion. The algorithms are going to
2:41:08
The algorithms are going to rationally try to explain it, but uh human emotion and feelings are going to grow in value.
2:41:16
And what he did at the Vatican really did crack the hearts of all the people that saw it and the millions of people that saw it around the world.
2:41:24
And so, >> and it's actually available on Disney Plus.
2:41:27
It's going to be there forever.
2:41:29
>> Yeah, everyone should watch it.
2:41:29
It it it gives you a peak of a completely new medium in entertainment uh that's combining human creativity and and AI and and drones and automation.
2:41:39
So, uh for Software Capital leader, it's a big honor and to be able to work again with Kim Kimble and and also work with uh people like Katzenberg and others.
2:41:48
It's uh it's a great honor. So, we're very excited.
2:41:53
>> Did anything about the Vatican show?
2:41:53
And I'm sure you got a ton of inbound interest from customers.
2:41:57
Did anything update you about um the shape of the business?
2:42:03
What interesting pockets of opportunity might exist for future shows?
2:42:09
Did you have any learnings coming out of the Vatican show?
2:42:13
>> I think I think the biggest learning we got is that uh 300,000 people came out of their homes.
2:42:22
It was a free concert, so not ticketed. Yeah.
2:42:24
but not really well promoted because it's a Vatican.
2:42:27
They don't really know how to promote their own thing. >> Sure.
2:42:31
>> And we had 300,000 people come to the show live.
2:42:33
So I I think that we've not really opened up our our eyes to shows that have that level of scale in in the audience.
2:42:41
And we've now gotten, you know, we we're very busy doing regular shows.
2:42:46
The Vatican is not a regular show.
2:42:47
That is a that is just absolutely next level and you just have to watch it to understand.
2:42:52
But um we now have interest for people uh whether it's America's 250th or uh repeating a a Catholic oriented show in Brazil or >> uh doing something about the history of uh uh uh the UAE.
2:43:11
We these are these are hundreds of thousands of people will come to see the show.
2:43:15
uh we might >> you guys have a a problem where when you get into that scale of an audience, it's hard to ticket that many people because you're talking about just putting it over, right?
2:43:26
>> I I don't even know how to do it now.
2:43:26
I believe that >> I believe it when our our ticketing partners say, "No, it's it's possible, >> but I don't know how to do it."
2:43:33
So, thankfully that's our problem.
2:43:36
>> The ticket dealers say that anything's possible, >> right?
2:43:41
But yeah, I mean it's cool to think about, you know, a city like a city for example or a town saying, "We want to do this to celebrate something and we're just going to pay for it because it's almost a public benefit." Right. >> Right.
2:43:51
And and many countries want to do that.
2:43:53
Obviously, the United States wants to do that for America's 250th.
2:43:57
Um we uh we're going to do we're doing we'll do many, but we're going to do a very big one in in North Dakota for Teddy Roosevelt's library being opened on July 4th for the 250th.
2:44:06
And it's um obviously as North Dakota it's going to be less people but it will be open to the public and she'll it'll be tens of thousands of people.
2:44:15
>> Are there any what open our eyes is how how much the public want to be in the live show the live experience uh because they could have just easily watched it on TV if they if that's what really what they wanted. >> Yeah.
2:44:29
But then you can just watch CGI, you know, you can just watch >> you can watch animations on your computer.
2:44:35
>> Seeing it in the sky 3D around you.
2:44:35
It's the visceral experience of it.
2:44:38
You see the you hear the oo and a's and and >> uh people are excited.
2:44:43
So >> there's something physical that the drones bring and it truly they are drones.
2:44:50
I mean they're they're used as weapons uh in other other parts of the world.
2:44:55
I think that physicality gives a visceral uh alertness that you don't get whether you if you're watching it on TV or on Instagram and uh and it's still awesome on TV and it's awesome on Instagram but it's it's just nothing like in person.
2:45:08
I also want to just touch on how fast this is growing.
2:45:10
Uh just as an investor like to be able to see a founder and a company and a team uh really gigascale this idea um better than anyone else in the world when when I got involved late last year.
2:45:23
Um how many tickets last year was >> in 2024? We sold 6,000 tickets. >> 6,000 tickets.
2:45:31
>> Our show our shows >> we should have half a million sold this year.
2:45:35
>> Half a million going a million.
2:45:35
Uh, so it, you know, I've been traveling around the world with him and talking to sovereigns and, you know, uh, around the world and closing deals and hand-to-hand combat and and, uh, and you're just seeing the reception, the excitement of, uh, of the sovereigns and the partners around the world.
2:45:53
U, this is one of the fastest growing businesses I've ever seen.
2:45:57
and going around with him has felt like the way I used to, you know, go around with Travis Giga scaling from a tiny company with 1 million revenue to to multiple billions.
2:46:06
And >> and it actually it does matter going country to country.
2:46:10
You actually have to get on a plane.
2:46:12
You have to >> get on the plane, >> work with the aviation authorities in that country.
2:46:15
You have to uh navigate the bureaucracy.
2:46:20
>> These are actual flight vehicles.
2:46:20
So if you uh if you u for example we we have we we work in Mexico but >> every drone we transfer over to Mexico is the same paperwork as transferring a 747 >> to to Mexico.
2:46:35
Well, yeah, from a from an investment standpoint, you know, if I was underwriting this, it's like you look at the mode, it's like the regulatory mode of like being able to fly, having government having these relationships, the technological mode of just like being able to coordinate, you know, thousands and thousands of drones simultaneously, the IP uh just the IP itself, right, is getting partnering with with IP in different categories.
2:47:00
Uh and then obviously the relationships with um even the individual uh venues to be able to like support and put on these.
2:47:10
There's so many different layers to it.
2:47:13
>> Funny you say the venues.
2:47:13
The venues is uh is one of the greatest modes out there.
2:47:17
And I mean it because it is handtohand combat figuring out each venue.
2:47:21
You know what is the weather like?
2:47:23
What are what's what's the size of the audience?
2:47:24
What's ticket price you can charge?
2:47:26
What's what kind of a show is this?
2:47:28
the Valdi4 season show with a live orchestra or is the should this be more of a of a a choir with Fel Williams?
2:47:36
You know, it's every venue is is is different.
2:47:38
And so that that's just it's just almost like a real estate play.
2:47:44
Just you just go one >> Yeah.
2:47:47
>> one after you and you now all of a sudden have a portfolio of of venues or real estate that you can use when when it makes sense. >> Absolutely.
2:47:56
This this time last year we we might have had I don't know 20 venues under our belt and now we have a thousand.
2:48:04
>> Do are you guys uh limited at all uh physically like being able to have enough drones to be able to put on the >> We are absolutely limited by number of drones.
2:48:11
We are building them as fast as we can. >> Wow.
2:48:14
>> And it's not near fast enough.
2:48:14
We we are uh we are we are constantly surprised.
2:48:20
You know it's it's a six-month supply chain, right? you order everything.
2:48:23
You got battery chemistries to sort out.
2:48:25
You got all of the all of these nuances to the supply chain that change over time.
2:48:30
And so if I were to predict our business now, it's September.
2:48:35
What is it going to be like in March next year?
2:48:37
I'm going to be so wrong.
2:48:40
It's just uh there's just no chance I get it right.
2:48:43
And so we've just decided to just make as many drones as we possibly can.
2:48:50
That's the reason we took the fund raise so that we're not we're not keeping that in our in our back pocket as an issue like oh well what about the drones?
2:48:58
What right now we literally if someone said to us you know here's a gazillion dollars we want you to fly a show like the Vatican we don't we just don't have the drones. >> Mhm.
2:49:09
>> Uh we we have to plan for sort of March and onwards for next year.
2:49:13
Um and it's going to be great but it's >> Yeah.
2:49:17
And then now you get the you get the benefit of having to manage fleets already on different continents.
2:49:21
It sounds >> so so in a sense the the the drone shortage enables us to train the teams in different countries.
2:49:30
>> So we're not just uh scaling so fast that you know safety as our at the end of the day number one priority and we've we've got 100% safety record and plan to keep it and I do think there's some value to being forced to to go a little slower but we are definitely being forced to go slower.
2:49:46
Well, congratulations on the fundraiser.
2:49:49
>> It's a three-sided marketplace is what we realize as we analyze the business is that you have the uh the three sides are the venues uh dominating the venues around the world and and you get pretty creative with with the kinds of venues you can do outdoors.
2:50:01
Um and then you have the consumers uh who are coming and buying the tickets and and coming to it.
2:50:09
As the venues grow, you have larger and larger people.
2:50:10
There were 5,000 people that got ticketed to the show in Madrid and there was 300,000 people that show showed up to the free free show in in in Rome.
2:50:19
And then you have the IP on the on the third side of the marketplace.
2:50:21
So you get more and more content and you get more more and more uh beautiful content that he's creating is basically building like a Pixar and a Disney all-in-one inside of a technology company.
2:50:33
So >> I I love the Pixar analogy and and actually Disney back in the early days was they were had they had to solve the technology as well. >> Yeah.
2:50:40
And I read Walt Disney's biography.
2:50:42
It's fascinating how it took them 10 years to add sound to Mickey Mouse.
2:50:46
And well, Mickey Mouse came out with sound.
2:50:49
Was the first one with sound. 10 years. >> 10 years.
2:50:52
>> And it took us It's going to sound crazy, but Intel was building this company 10 years before I acquired it.
2:50:59
>> Probably took us 12 years to add sound. >> It's remarkable. >> And it's like, why? That's just crazy.
2:51:04
Well, actually, this is really hard.
2:51:04
And then uh our shows are now becoming 90 minutes long.
2:51:09
But that is a 2025 invention. That is not >> pre2025.
2:51:13
And now you have to create content that's 90 minutes long.
2:51:17
>> Just because you can technically do it doesn't mean you actually can do it well.
2:51:20
And so that's where the Pixar comes in.
2:51:22
Really the creatives working with the engineers back and forth and pushing each other.
2:51:27
>> I love businesses like this that are just such a simple idea but incredibly incredibly difficult to execute.
2:51:32
But when if you can do it, it's just, you know, the value is just >> the invention of new form factors and new new mediums of communication are is some of the most exciting things to to invest in.
2:51:44
And the analogies I I was using, I love that movie Babylon, which is like about the history of Hollywood and and movies going from silent to sound and what a transformation that was.
2:51:54
And that's what Kimell's really doing with Nova Sky Stories.
2:51:56
He's invented a new type of of medium for for creative expression and entertainment.
2:52:03
and then applied sound to it. Live sound.
2:52:06
So the fever shows are >> choreographed to live sound.
2:52:08
Like drones are drones are keep these are thousands of drones choreographed to the beats to the songs that are performed live >> orchestra. >> That's really hard. >> Yeah.
2:52:20
>> Well, congratulations on the fund raise.
2:52:22
Let's ring the gong >> one more time. >> I love it. I love it. >> Thank you so much. >> Amazing stuff.
2:52:32
I can't I can't wait to see uh let us know when the first or we'll get on the email list but uh excited to to have the first show.
2:52:40
>> Yeah, just go to Fever and then for the show go to Disney Plus. >> Fantastic. >> Amazing.
2:52:44
>> Have a great rest of your day. Congratulations. >> Cheers.
2:52:47
>> We will see you later.
2:52:47
Did you see >> Chinese automaker BYD's UN U9 Extreme EV just broke the top speed record at Germany's ATP proving grounds.
2:52:58
They beat the Bugatti Chiron, uh, which went 304 miles an hour, 77.
2:53:04
They went 308 miles an hour.
2:53:08
The car has almost 3,000 horsepower.
2:53:11
>> You saw that Birkshshire Hathway sold out entirely. They own zero. >> Well, I know why.
2:53:15
Because, oh, this fancy car, everyone's so obsessed with it.
2:53:19
Track grade battery, blah, blah, blah.
2:53:21
Uh, you know, it's Nurburg Ring time.
2:53:23
659, 10 seconds slower than a Chevy Corvette.
2:53:28
>> What are we doing here?
2:53:28
3,000 horsepower and you can't even get around the green hell in under 655. What are we doing? Straight line. >> It's ridiculous. Uh not impressed.
2:53:41
>> Uh go back to the drawing board, China. Try again.
2:53:42
Uh because if you're getting laughed by a Chevy Corvette on the old Norse life, what are you doing?
2:53:48
Anyway, if you wanna you want to hop on a wander, find your happy place, book a wanderer and with inspiring views, hotel, great amenities, dreamy beds, top tier cleaning, 247 concier service.
2:53:58
It's a vacation home, but better maybe you book a wander next to the nor life and take a couple laps around the old Nurburg Ring.
2:54:07
But we have our next guest, Stephen. Welcome to the stream.
2:54:12
How are you doing, Stephen? >> Good to see you. >> Good afternoon. How are you? >> Uh, give us the news.
2:54:15
What's the fundraising announcement?
2:54:17
Let's ring the gong at the start of the segment, then we'll get into the details. >> Yes. So, big announcement.
2:54:22
Um, we have, uh, just, uh, raised $12 million in our, uh, >> thank you for the gong.
2:54:33
Um, >> uh, we've just raised $12 million, uh, led by Acme Capital and, uh, with a co-lead with Future Ventures.
2:54:42
And this adds on top of the already $8 million we've raised from Construct and Abstract and Generational Partners and Village Global and XFund.
2:54:52
So that brings us to about $20 million raised and we're very excited for the for you know after this financing round for the firepower gets us to move forward.
2:55:03
>> Talk about the state of the business.
2:55:04
Talk about the semiconductors uh and try and put it in in terms like relative to what else is going in the market.
2:55:11
people have a high level understanding of like you know GPUs and CPUs but what are you doing specifically in semiconductors? >> Yeah.
2:55:19
So that's a good way to put it.
2:55:22
CPUs, GPUs, FPGAAS, these are the things that people usually think about when they think about semiconductors.
2:55:29
Uh they they tend to be the things that come top of mind and they are indeed twothirds of the of the chip industry.
2:55:35
So the trillion dollar chip industry, they're they're twothirds of that.
2:55:38
But there's this other one-third which is uh analog and analog tends to be um overlooked but it is unbelievably important.
2:55:46
is unbelievably important. Um you have uh the way we are communicating today uh and the way you are you know beaming out your your your show to everyone who is watching that this is all done over you know analog digital signals processors and many many many many different you
2:56:04
know bouncing signals across the planet and and I think it tends to be overlooked but it's unbelievably important it's unbelievably important in military warfare it's unbelievably important in communications and that's where we've really focused Now big picture sphere is a is a is a chip and product company. Um the difference
2:56:22
Um the difference between us and everyone else on the planet is that um we at the base of what we do have an AI engine that allows us to from concept all the way to fabrication produce uh you know produce chips that are entirely AI designed.
2:56:42
Um, philosophically we we think that chip design by humans is coming to an end.
2:56:49
It already has mostly ended in the world of digital.
2:56:51
So CPUs and GPUs and FPGAs, they're not designed the layouts of those chips are not designed by hand.
2:56:57
Um, you uh you actually have TSMC basically do the layout for all the logic gates and things like that for you.
2:57:05
Um, >> but in analog it's still done by hand.
2:57:10
And we think that the the thing we are conquering today is we're putting that to an end and we are in doing so building a product company around that where everything is designed by AI which >> so is it correct to characterize you as a as a fabistless chip design company.
2:57:26
I come to you with a >> something that can be done in math digital signal processing.
2:57:33
I have some stream of information that's coming in.
2:57:37
I need to transform that with math.
2:57:39
You're gonna use AI to design a chip and then you're gonna call an actual fab to go and make those chips and then you send me the completed chips. >> Yeah.
2:57:48
So, uh just a bit about what we do today.
2:57:50
today. We uh found an interesting niche in uh the defense sector as a good starting point where we companies like >> like Ander actually specifically Andrew and some others come to us and they say hey I have an electronic warfare system or I have a sigant system and I need uh
2:58:07
an analog front end for it right I need a bunch of chips at the analog front end and uh these are you know pretty critical they come to us they give us a custom spec u and then we go ahead and we go on to our fab um you know and we say hey we're you know this is the
2:58:24
design our AI came up with actually hundreds of possible designs and these are their performance characteristics etc etc we work between the customer and the fab and then we fab it out we package it we ship it off um we're actually you know actually the big thing
2:58:40
we're you know we we've done over the last you know year and a half since starting the company is is is build up this capability around these small RF components and we're actually going to start uh building a joint venture with one of the big defense primes. Um one of
2:58:51
Um one of the big four, I guess, uh to allow >> what? >> Let's go.
2:58:59
>> Yeah, >> we Let's give it up for the defense primes.
2:59:01
I know I know we like Ander here, but >> they don't get enough love.
2:59:05
>> They don't get enough love.
2:59:07
>> Um I uh I I told the an executive at Northrup about the B2 bomber meme. >> Yeah.
2:59:14
>> Where it feed me the three. >> Oh yeah. Have they seen it?
2:59:16
He really he thought it was really funny.
2:59:22
>> Maybe good, maybe bad. I don't know.
2:59:23
>> Like, well, it was designed for that.
2:59:25
>> Yeah, that's actually intended purpose. Um, yeah.
2:59:27
So, so, so, so what is difficult about scaling the business now?
2:59:31
You're raising more money.
2:59:31
Uh, it doesn't sound like you're deploying that capital to build a fab.
2:59:34
Are you just hiring more software engineers, AI scientists to build more efficient AI systems that can actually design better chips?
2:59:44
Even are we beyond superhuman capabilities?
2:59:47
But there's still a frontier where we can continue to advance like what what is the longer term goal?
2:59:53
>> So we have this business that we've we we've really started that we're going to build a joint venture around in um in these these I guess these RF components which are >> it's it's a bit of a niche business and the few things we're going to be doing with this capital is uh one actually you know investing in expanding out that joint venture etc.
3:00:12
There's going to be some capital investment from us.
3:00:14
We we do pay for fabrication, things like that.
3:00:18
>> But also, we're going to be moving into what you might think of as the more high value area of the analog world, which are mixed signal chips.
3:00:24
>> Um, Broadcom and Marll have made a lot of money over the last uh, you know, since the AI boom started.
3:00:29
And a lot of that is because you need to communicate between two GPUs these mixed signal components that Broadcom and and and Marll and all these guys make.
3:00:38
Um, you know, and that's what we're going after next.
3:00:42
these mixed signal components or IP blocks and that's that's the next area we need to conquer.
3:00:46
Um that's going to take quite a bit of hiring.
3:00:48
Um it's going to you know whereas our fabrication for the defense stuff was in uh more reasonably you know less expensive nodes some of the stuff is going to be in much lower nodes.
3:01:00
So any fabrication we do is going to be much more expensive.
3:01:04
Um but in general that's the next area we want to conquer this mixed signal uh area which is the you know the core of what data centers are really using when they think about analog.
3:01:15
Um it's a lot of hiring at some fabrication might be some test equipment.
3:01:20
Um though um we're not sure about that whether we want to borrow it or buy it.
3:01:25
Uh and you know we're hiring um software engineers, AI engineers, chip designers, a lot of chip designers.
3:01:33
Um and then obviously I need some I need you know some business operations people to really uh come and >> help deals get dinners.
3:01:43
>> Well, we are rooting for you.
3:01:43
Thank you so much for coming on the show.
3:01:46
Uh congrats on the round and we will talk to you soon.
3:01:52
>> Have a good rest of your day. >> Thank you. All right. Byebye. >> Cheers Stephen.
3:01:55
>> Up next we have robots in space.
3:01:55
But first a startup idea.
3:01:58
bulletproof silk chararmmuse American street wear.
3:02:02
Are you familiar with this at all?
3:02:06
>> You can >> silk that's tough.
3:02:07
>> They modified silk worms to make a material that's stronger than Kevlar.
3:02:13
You can make a whole jacket out of it, which I think should be bulletproof. Maybe. I have no idea.
3:02:17
I feel like I've been hearing about this like make a bulletproof vest that just looks like normal clothes for like decades and no one's ever figured it out, >> but I have no idea if it's actually possible. It sounds very sci-fi.
3:02:28
I would like to I would like that.
3:02:29
Speaking of sci-fi, we have the founders of Icarus Robotics.
3:02:35
>> Let's bring them in from the reream rating room in >> TV. Welcome to the stream. >> What's going on guys? How are you guys doing? >> Welcome to the show.
3:02:43
>> Hey guys, how are you? >> We're good. >> Hey, how's it going?
3:02:46
>> G kick us off with an introduction. Who are you? What are you doing?
3:02:50
>> I'm Ethan Roas, co-founder, CEO of Acres Robotics and we're building the labor force for space. >> Okay.
3:02:56
We're lucky enough to be partner with NASA.
3:02:59
>> We're lucky enough to be partnered with some of the commercial space stations and be sending robots to space.
3:03:04
>> Sorry, I was talking over here.
3:03:04
You said you're partnered with NASA. Is that correct? >> Let's go.
3:03:09
>> We're lucky enough to be working with some of the most amazing teams over there. >> That's amazing. Incredible.
3:03:13
>> Uh what what do you want to do in space?
3:03:15
Because I I labor in space.
3:03:15
There's so many different things.
3:03:17
Repair solar panel, plug a hole after an asteroid smashed into the side of my spaceship.
3:03:23
like what what are the tractable problems that you need labor for in space?
3:03:28
>> Let Jamie jump into that. He's the labor guy. >> Yeah. Yeah.
3:03:32
Well, look, we always say um half of the world's GDP is labor.
3:03:35
And I think it's going to be a similar makeup in space.
3:03:40
So, uh one of the big things we realize is that essentially we're hyper reliant on astronaut time uh when we're in space.
3:03:47
And you know, an hour of astronaut time costs $135,000 an hour.
3:03:52
what these people are doing.
3:03:52
They have PhDs, you know, they're amazingly skilled.
3:03:55
They've all been, you know, Air Force pilots, all this kind of stuff, but ultimately what they end up doing is the logistics and the maintenance that keeps a lot of these habitats and platforms alive.
3:04:03
So, what we're actually doing is building these dextrous mobile robots, these freef flying drones with uh robotic arms that can essentially uh go and be controlled from the ground and do a lot of the work uh the boring and uh yeah, maybe tedious work that the astronauts don't want to do so that they can focus on the revenue generating stuff.
3:04:20
So that's the experimentation and the science and the manufacturing. >> That's cool.
3:04:25
It's it's it's funny to think about astronauts being like, uh, yeah, I'm worried about losing my job to Icarus Robotics.
3:04:31
And they're like, you guys are like, no, it's fine.
3:04:33
You're going to be free, your time is going to be freed up to do higher leverage things.
3:04:38
>> They're like, but I bill at $135,000 an hour. That's my rate.
3:04:42
And uh, I don't want to see any wage compression.
3:04:44
I'd like a raise next year. Inflation's going up.
3:04:46
I want to be at 140 pounds.
3:04:50
>> You know, they unfortunately I don't think that astronauts are taking home 135 an hour.
3:04:54
Otherwise, otherwise the average, you know, Z kid would be like, I want to be an astronaut. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not doing thing.
3:05:01
I'm going astronaut all the way.
3:05:01
Uh so, uh what does testing look like?
3:05:03
I remember seeing all these videos of astronauts in pools. Can you test in water? Is that useful at all? >> Yeah.
3:05:11
And you guys just raised 6 million.
3:05:12
I'm assuming you don't have hardware in space yet, but this round will help you get there. >> Yeah. So, that's great.
3:05:21
>> We're um we're actually on launch coming up uh by the end of 26, early 27 to the ISS.
3:05:26
So, this is full scale testing.
3:05:28
We'll be up there for a year.
3:05:28
Right now, we have an entire week of crew time to test. But you're 100% correct.
3:05:32
Testing on Earth is really, really tough.
3:05:37
>> And the way that you do that is a few modes.
3:05:39
you know, one, you can set up an air bearing facility, which gives you kind of like a frictionless environment.
3:05:45
So, think about this like a a really scientific air hockey puck >> where, you know, the way that there's a thin film of air between the air hockey puck and the actual table.
3:05:52
Well, we do that with nitrogen, high high compressed nitrogen and these things called air bearing.
3:05:59
>> And that gives us really great movement in an XY plane.
3:06:00
But you're entirely right.
3:06:03
We were just down in Johnson checking out the neutral buoyancy pool, which I think is one of the largest pools in the country.
3:06:07
And you can test there as well.
3:06:10
But the most exciting test before you get to the ISS is actually the parabolic flight.
3:06:15
So you might have seen those videos of people on the planes. Oh yeah.
3:06:19
>> And these planes go up and down in parabas and they go at the same speed of gravity downwards and that gives you freef fall.
3:06:24
And people misconrue space in orbit.
3:06:27
And that zerog feeling you actually get is actually freef fall.
3:06:30
And so we'll be doing one of those in the new year which will be super exciting.
3:06:36
So your uh your robots, will they be primarily like inside the International Space Station that dial then go outside or are they multi-purpose?
3:06:45
How do you think about the kind of uh two use cases?
3:06:49
And are they even that different at all >> if you're a robot? >> Yeah.
3:06:54
So uh our plan is initially to start off by uh having these robots do essentially what we call IVA operation.
3:07:02
So that's inside the vehicle.
3:07:02
So our robot is designed uh basically to be propelled by fans and some other sort of like neat pul mechanisms that we'll uh maybe show a little bit later.
3:07:11
But yeah, so ultimately what we wanted to do is deploy here first because it's actually an amazing place where you have the kind of guardrails of having humans in the loop.
3:07:20
Uh you have humans around it so that if anything goes really really wrong, you know, it's not just going to flow out into the middle of nowhere. Someone can recover it.
3:07:26
So, uh, that's kind of the big reason why we went, uh, you know, to go to the IVA, uh, first because most people are looking over this.
3:07:33
Really, >> that's amazing.
3:07:34
Uh, well, thank you so much for stopping by the show.
3:07:36
We will talk to you later. Congratulations. >> Let us know.
3:07:42
Let us know if there's We have a pretty harsh environment here in the Ultra Dome.
3:07:45
If you need some some testing, just let us know. >> Final fundrais >> 6. 1 million. >> Yeah. 6. 1. >> Boom. Nice work, guys. >> Love it. Love it. >> Congratulations. >> Congrats on the race. >> We'll talk.
3:08:00
>> We'll uh we'll see you at the series A. Cheers.
3:08:04
>> Innocent bystander says Tim Cook could secure his legacy with one move.
3:08:07
Can you guess what it is, Jordan?
3:08:11
>> A home printer that works.
3:08:12
>> Home printer that works.
3:08:13
>> Home printer that works. >> Simple stuff. >> Crazy.
3:08:15
Do you think >> Brother printer prints like 5 billion USD a year?
3:08:20
>> I found a paper company.
3:08:20
This is uh deeply ironic because we are of course uh partnered with ramp. com. Save time and money.
3:08:26
Get rid of your paper receipts. That's right.
3:08:29
>> But I found a paper company that's worth the same amount in market cap as RAMP. >> Not for long. >> Not for long.
3:08:34
We're going to take them down.
3:08:35
You're going to hear some really negative investigative journalism from short reports about this paper company. >> It's funny.
3:08:41
So Julie Julie Chang in this reply says they're called brother laser printers.
3:08:46
>> Yes, we love a brother.
3:08:47
>> We we run brother laser printers.
3:08:50
technology brothers run on brother.
3:08:52
>> Do you think that Apple's never done the home printer because of environmental concerns around like don't print, don't waste paper?
3:08:57
>> This was always obviously not the future.
3:09:01
>> Also, I feel like this is one of those things where if I look way back over the c over the past like 40 years of Apple history, I bet they did a printer at one point.
3:09:07
Remember they did didn't Apple do a camera like a handheld digital camera at one point that was its own device?
3:09:14
So, Apple's Apple's dip their toes in here and there, but I would love I would love a proper home printer from app from Apple. >> Oh, wait.
3:09:21
So, uh >> according to Gemini, while it may seem surprising to many today, Apple was once a significant player in the computer printer market. >> What?
3:09:31
>> For nearly two decades, the company designed and sold a range of printers from early dot matrix models to groundbreaking laser printers that played a pivotal role in the desktop publishing revolution.
3:09:40
They started in the late 70s with the Apple silent type, a thermal printer.
3:09:46
However, it was the Image Writer series produced in the early 1980s that became a popular companion >> to the Apple 2 and then they got out of the business.
3:09:58
>> Yeah, you can find these on eBay. Apple Writer 2 printer.
3:10:02
>> It probably works fine. What's wrong?
3:10:04
>> It looks >> Tim Cook should come out with a statement. Hey, they're out there. Wow. >> You want it so much?
3:10:09
If it's not just uh stated preference, if it's revealed preference, go get yourself an Apple printer. I guess it exists.
3:10:17
>> Um, in other news, uh UFC is happening on the south lawn of the White House and they uh they took a page out of our set design. I see an Ultra Dome. >> It's time to trust.
3:10:28
>> It's time to trust their trust up >> their trust.
3:10:31
>> Don't go trust trust for trust with the White House.
3:10:34
>> No, no, you do not want to go trust for trust with them.
3:10:36
They got to they got to get >> Is this a real photo or is this CGI or something?
3:10:40
Like what's going on here? >> Artist render. >> It's CG.
3:10:42
I was looking at it for a while. >> CGI, right?
3:10:44
Because like I was scoping out their trust.
3:10:47
>> This has not happened yet.
3:10:47
But >> are you guys kidding?
3:10:48
This is like the most obviously CGI image I've ever seen in my life. >> I can't tell anymore.
3:10:54
I don't even >> You think they just set up a bunch of the the 10,000 people? >> I don't know.
3:11:00
I I'm not a political person.
3:11:02
I don't follow politics that closely. So, I don't know.
3:11:03
This might have happened.
3:11:05
I'm also, it's double bad because I'm not into politics and I'm also not into sports.
3:11:08
So, you could have told me, "Oh yeah, UFC happened at the White House last weekend."
3:11:11
I'd be like, "Okay, yeah, I guess I guess it did."
3:11:14
Anyway, we have our next guest in the reream waiting room.
3:11:15
Austin is coming into the TV.
3:11:18
Welcome to the show, Austin.
3:11:21
Good to finally have you.
3:11:21
We've reacted to many posts on this show.
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Uh, thank you for your service to the timeline. Uh, good to see you.
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>> Long time listener, first time caller.
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>> Thanks for hopping on. Uh, give us the news. Big day.
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What's going on in your world? >> What you got for us?
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>> Um, yeah, we just announced our $6 million seed round. >> That is gone worthy.
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And >> I don't know if this is gong worthy also, but as of as of 3 days ago, we're officially a ramp customer. >> What? >> Let's go. >> Let's go.
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[Music] >> That's amazing. >> Oh, there we go. >> He is fired up. Let's go. >> Love it. That is amazing.
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>> Congratulations >> and and uh >> extremely bullish for your business.
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>> You had launched the product. This is another launch. We were talking earlier.
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You you got to always just be launching.
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So launched again to the story of the company.
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>> We we've kind of had a wait list since the beginning and so we've been a little constrained on how quickly we can add customers.
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We still are a bit, but we've been adding a ton of customers all day today.
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And um so we are launching to general availability for the first time today.
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And we had about 15,000 people on the wait list who all got invited in today.
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And we still don't have free trials.
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So everyone has to pay to use the product.
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But uh but but yeah, we're adding customers really quickly.
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And and I guess I have to talk about the product.
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So how is the people's secretary?
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So um it is a secretary that is part human, part AI.
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So, we have really sophisticated models that do all the things that a great assistant does on scheduling.
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It knows where you take your meetings, when you take your meetings, how you want buffers, how many meetings you want to take per day.
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Um, subtle hints on priority of different types of meetings and um can follow up to make sure meetings get scheduled and all of those types of things.
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And um and so it's powerful AI models that do all these things in a simulation.
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And then we have humans who are checking because our customers are founders, VCs, um all sorts of folks who have a really low tolerance for mistakes on this type of scheduling.
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And so um so when our model they're not confident enough, we have a 247 team of humans who are checking these simulations and approving them before they go out or correcting them in this kind of like cursor for EA's system that we've built.
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So, it's an extremely overengineered product to solve a relatively or seemingly simple problem, but it's actually like pretty hard to get it as good as a as a phenomenal u executive assistant would.
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And so, that's the product.
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>> How are you thinking about pricing?
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I feel like they're, you know, hiring a full-time EA is expensive and we've seen the rise of these offshore services that are still like what very expensive compared to like even a chat GPT pro plus giga subscription.
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Um, where do you want to play?
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Where do you think that there's opportunity to create, you know, a delta between what people pay and get value from?
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Yeah, the framing is kind of interesting because it's like we have people who say they're switching from like a virtual assistant service that costs $3,000 a month to Howie because they were mostly using that for scheduling and how he's better at at scheduling and is 247.
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But then there's also people that are like, "Well, Calendarly is $12 a month.
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Why would I pay you guys more than that?"
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And so, um, so it's been kind of interesting, but we So, our pricing is $35 a month for our base product and then and then $145 for Howie Pro.
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And you the main thing you get there is, um, white label.
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So you can rename your howy and give it an email at your domain.
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And u Turner Novak named his Chabah.
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>> I was about to say, was that you? I remember seeing that.
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>> I couldn't tell if that was a joke, but yeah.
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No, he has scheduling his meetings.
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Um and yeah, and then you can do like more sophisticated like um complex preferences for on Powe Pro, but the white label is the main thing people pay for.
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And um and so yeah, we've gotten definitely some push back, especially without free trials, but overall we have we for the right people, our product becomes instantly indispensable.
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Um and it's primarily people who schedule a ton of external meetings who just like immediately cannot live without it once they start using it.
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What uh how long do you think it will take for like your internal software and the models to get good enough to never need that sort of like human verification layer?
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>> So I think about it like self-driving cars.
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It's like we the things like the a couple years ago every Whimo on the street had a person in the car holding the steering wheel.
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Now for the most part they don't.
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But if you see a Whimo on an icy road in Lake Tahoe there's someone holding the steering wheel.
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And so we will keep pushing farther out and always be bringing tech bringing like a product experience to the market that is not possible with today's technology where we have humans holding the steering wheel on the kind of next leading edge things and more and more goes back to the model.
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So we are already giving more to the models than we were even like a month ago.
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But um but we'll keep kind of keep adding complexity.
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So whether that's like travel, booking, anything that like an EA does, and then a lot of things that EAS don't do, but that people can use in terms of like meta work about help helping like pay attention to how you're spending your time and what your priorities are.
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And um so there's a lot of things we can do that are going to be errorprone and we will always be like willing to lean on humans to push out a little farther than than would be possible with just the models.
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>> Uh have you thought about an even higher tier?
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I feel like uh there's maybe an opportunity to add human in the loop and at at at that multi,000 price point, but what what do you think that's just like doesn't make any sense for the business?
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Would take you away from the the the true goal here? What are you thinking?
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So we use humans in a loop and they so when we started doing that it was me doing this and I was like typing in Google calendar API calls into the browser myself and um and basically and that was like in January and it would take me 30 minutes or so to complete many of these tasks and now we have >> at 247 we have 60 people that do this and they can do it in do these tasks in like 90 seconds.
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So it's like they're quickly seeing the reasoning notes and all these things and the entire simulation of what happened and then they can chat with it.
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So they can say like, "Oh, you got the time zone wrong."
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Like Jordy is normally in Pacific time, but he said he said this is for like the when they're doing the uh New York Stock Exchange thing, so so it needs to be on Eastern time.
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And then and then it'll like reimulate in front of your eyes.
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So we've >> leaned a lot into speeding up the humans in completing these tasks to where we don't really need a steeper for what we're offering today.
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we don't need to charge more than we do, but it is totally possible that we will have um something more advanced.
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something more advanced. really it's just like how can we on the scale of hundreds of dollars a month or even less give millions of people the an experience that is as good as what the top kind of 01% of people who have a great >> it's even better because you can in and
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for scheduling because somebody that like somebody could be on the other side of the world when if you had an EA they'd be sleeping >> they can be messaging and scheduling time they get that instant booking and confirmation and you get that 24/7 like live experience uh that no EA today can offer. You need a rotating crew of EAS.
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You need a rotating crew of EAS.
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So I think um >> yeah it's it's uh >> yeah and and the other thing too is like if if you're like need to clear your schedule if it's like 11 at night and you realize okay I need to do something in the morning.
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I'm not going to be able to do these meetings.
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you can like instantly just like hit a button and and clear out the schedule and and have it done in a way that's like thoughtful for the people on the other side.
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Uh how was on the fundraising side?
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Uh I mean I'm a small invest uh angel.
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Uh but and and when I when you first pitched me this I was like that makes sense.
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It's like a simple idea big TAM.
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I think you can use AI to create something that is just remarkably better than like the current SAS offerings.
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But in some ways it's like an obvious idea uh at so and that can be a double-edged sword.
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Sometimes investors are like, "Oh, this is a no-brainer.
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I would I would use this.
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I know a bunch of people that would use this."
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But then on the other side, I I'm sure you got the question of like, "What if OpenAI does this?" Or questions like that.
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So, how is it navigating those kind of conversations?
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Yeah, I mean earlier on I was more concerned because I've realized how unbelievably hard it is to actually execute on this product and um and so and I think that like there's a challenge.
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We spent all of last year which you know Jordy like the thing was making mistakes.
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We were I was apologizing I spent 50 hours a week apologizing to customers for mistakes that we were making.
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But but during that time, we learned we saw all of the kind of mistake patterns and we were able to kind of build our first version of a map of what we think the EA needs to do in all these different scenarios.
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And that doesn't exist in publicly available training data.
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It's like what happens in the assistant the executive assistant's head as they're doing scheduling.
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And that's not publicly available anywhere.
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There's lots of training data that's calendar data and email data, but the kind of like what happens in the in the EA's brain isn't.
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And um I think you have to put a pretty bad product into market in order to get a good one in this category.
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And that's tough for bigger companies like OpenAI to actually do.
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And um and then to deliver a product as good as ours with human in the loop.
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Like that's that's also just tough.
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They want to they want to bring something to to a million customers on day one.
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And that's pretty tough to do.
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Even for us, it's been hard to scale this kind of human in the loop approach.
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And so I I think it's like a valid question.
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Obviously like scheduling is one of the use cases that comes up all the time, but I think by the time other folks start to get interested in it, we will be moved on to a lot more beyond just scheduling.
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So u so it's not overly a concern, but um but yeah, there's I mean there's competitor products of ours and then and then lots of bigger companies that are trying to build things like this.
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Um there's one popular CEO that was tweeting about it just today right after our announcement about about their assistant and so it's there there are people trying to solve this problem and we think it's a problem that's worth solving.
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So >> a secretary for the people finally >> we love it.
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Um, >> the the last thing I want to say is this the name secretary.
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I I I think you remember this, John, because I DM'd you about it, but a very early episode of TVPN, Jordy mentioned Howie and John, you were saying like it it should be called Secretary.
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They should buy secretary.
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com and >> that planted a seed in my brain because a couple months later I was thinking like I mean you you made a whole case for it, but for me it was just like there's 10,000 products out there called AI assistant. Totally.
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And there's a word that everyone in the world knows that describes the thing that we do and we could be one of one.
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And so yeah, so we're we're pretty >> What's the actual response been?
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Because I remember it was it was just a funny like counterposition.
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>> Secretary also means keeper of secrets, right?
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>> Means keeper of the secrets.
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We have a secretary of the war, secretary of the interior.
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Like it's a very high status position in DC.
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Um but yeah, not many brands are using it.
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Have any of the have any of the customers been like I don't I don't get it or does it actually land pretty well?
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>> No, I mean yeah because like Jordy there some people said that they thought we'd get cancelled for using it that it because it's like too kind of >> that's different than actually getting angry messages like somebody can say I think you will get angry messages but did you get angry messages? >> Yeah.
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No, so far like and yeah, honestly like it's been all positive and we leaned into it.
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The launch video is like showing is kind of starts out in the with a sort of 1950s style secretary.
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By the end she's kind of mo modernized and she's a boss which is kind of the same arc that Christina Andre's character goes through in in Madmen where she's like a secretary who's not treated well and by the end she's like equity holder in the business and and is a boss and so um yeah so so far it's been extremely positive and we're really excited. >> Cool.
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Yeah, always room to carve out like a different a different uh like define the category.
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I mean, Cognition did this, didn't they like kind of create the like the the initial like a a coding agent like the uh uh AI software engineer was like what went super viral because people were like this it doesn't count and they're like okay well at least you're talking about us and then they debated it and now people are like yeah of course coding agents exist it's a category.
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Uh anyway, thank you so much for hopping on the show. Awesome progress.
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Great catching up with you. excited for more people.
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>> Love to have you back soon. We'll talk to you soon.
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>> You're the man, Austin. >> Bye. >> See you guys.
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>> Um, did you see this this uh image of the monks in orange robes at the iPhone 17 Pro launch? >> Yes, I did.
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I thought this was so good. They're like, "Finally."
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>> What did you think was good about it?
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>> Did you think it was a real photo? >> Is it AI? >> It's AI, baby.
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Oh, holy John falls for UFC AI.
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>> I mean, this is on another level. This is true. This is great. This is great.
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Uh, >> this is a remarkable AI image, honestly.
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>> It looks very >> I honestly can't really clock it.
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The only reason I like when you shared it, I was like, this is real.
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And then I saw a community note on it that said the picture is clearly AI generated.
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When you look at the bottom left, the the the community note could be >> like orange iPhone. Huge sign. >> It's really cool.
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It's a really cool idea that they would be into the orange iPhone, but it does seem like fake news.
3:24:35
Um, in other news, tomorrow is D-Day on X.
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If you're a bot, if you're a if you're a spammer, uh, and you're running a bot network on X, Nikita Beer's coming for you. Tuesday is D-Day.
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Nikita Beer will be wiping out 50 to 60% of all bots algorithmically.
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Then two weeks after that, we will reduce it another 25% with changes to account requirements. Very exciting news.
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X is getting cleaner and Nikita continues to be on an absolute run over there.
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I've been very pleased with the algorithm.
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>> You see >> closing closing kind of a black pill but uh PC will be raising their prices by 15%.
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>> This is rough >> today.
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Omega Cardier will be going up by 8 to 15% as well.
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Well, head over to >> getbzzle.
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com >> and >> before this gets priced in because unfortunately this the these kind of price changes get priced into the secondary market pretty quickly.
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>> But >> so the price of the brick >> make a move.
3:25:33
Never a bad time to pull the trigger on an aquinaut.
3:25:39
>> Thank you so for tuning in today. We had a great show.
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We enjoyed hanging out with all you in the chat.
3:25:43
Thank you to John Axley for hanging out.
3:25:44
Thanks to Conor PS for the feedback about the about the gong hits. I'm working on it.
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I'm getting better every day.
3:25:52
And thank you to Gold Rock AI for hanging out.
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Gold Rock, I didn't realize this. It's an ad.
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Uh I saw Gold Rock in the X chat with a full full tagline of what the company does. Underrated strategy.
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If you're a company and you want to promote your business, make it your tagline.
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Hop in the TBPN live chat. Make some good comments.
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We're going to have to say your name out loud.
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will be saying your branding. That's right. >> On the show.
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Bobby Cosmic, as always, thanks for holding it down over at Twitch. >> We appreciate you.
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>> And thank you to Turbo. >> See you tomorrow.