0:00
Thank God you're here. >> Amen. >> Wow.
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>> It's great to see you both.
0:02
Thank you for joining us. What a blessing. What a blessing.
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And I'm sure that's not lost on you guys.
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You know, the fact that through through the loss and the pain of losing people you love, but also building family and rewarding yourself with life, it's all a blessing. >> Yes, it is, man.
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It's definitely a blessing indeed. >> For sure.
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You know, um and here we are. >> Yeah.
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with the body of work that is so essential and just teeming with life.
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You make movies, you always have.
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I feel like those movies are rooted in truth, in true life, >> but you even at the beginnings, I felt like you you understood the power of art.
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It wasn't just like, oh, I'm going to create what I see. You love to create. >> Absolutely.
0:48
And that that was the mission from the beginning, right?
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Wasn't about money, wasn't about none of those things.
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It truly was about the art, you know what I mean?
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And and and that was the beautiful thing about teaming up with Al, you know what I mean?
1:01
Cuz he's in that same He's from that same cloth. >> Yeah. >> You know, of um art. He's a curator. >> Oh, yeah. >> Yeah.
1:09
>> I think that might have been what set you apart from your peers when you were growing up, >> you know, from where you came from.
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Cuz you know, the stories they tell me have was dedicated to the craft.
1:17
Like he was on his, >> you know what I'm saying?
1:21
>> you know what I'm saying? every day if it wasn't you know you went to art and design school you studied it you studied it and is an artist in every sense of the word >> that's right great great musicians often in my lifetime having spent 30 plus years talking to them many are designers by trade who found their way into music
1:37
some people are filmmakers who found their way into music where they began is often a little bit different and then they find their way in but I always feel like when I'm when I'm listening to Mob Deep Records and I same can be said for your music that I'm experiencing something multi-ensory >> yo >> absolutely You should see how good he draws. >> What kind what kind of stuff you draw?
1:53
>> What kind what kind of stuff you draw?
1:54
What kind of stuff you draw?
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>> Anything like he just has a knack.
1:56
You know, I have a theory that artists like any medium, you know, most musicians if you tell them to draw some probably have a bit of skill because it's just you transfer the medium, you know, we just focused on music. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
2:09
Look, it's it's a it's a spirit inside of you.
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It chooses how it comes out.
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And boy is it loud on this record. >> Very loud. Really loud. >> Wow. Okay, let's get into it. the album.
2:20
Um, so excited you're back.
2:20
Obviously bittersweet as it always would be from the second that you lost your friend. >> Yeah.
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>> You know, and partner in this whole experience and and it was a great loss for music, but a greater loss for you on a personal level.
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So, of course, very very belated, but regardless, man, rest in peace to the great. >> Yes.
2:36
>> So, so going back in and and and you know, I only go where I'm invited.
2:38
So, please uninvite me if necessary.
2:39
But I'd like to know what it's like to go through and postumously experience your friend's words and feelings and energy and start to create around that as opposed to previous albums where you're in the room together figuring it out. >> It's tough. You know what I mean?
2:52
Uh when you listening to the lyrics in ac capella mode and he says things that like have premonitions like you know >> I love you have see you on the other side you know you have to focus and be like okay there's a job we need to do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
3:09
Al, as a producer, I know obviously, you know, you've got you've got clear publishing on this record on a few cuts.
3:14
U but your spirit is definitely across this.
3:17
I know how important it was to you that this wasn't just a checkand checkout situation.
3:21
As much as you put into those situations, that this was very much a project you were passionate about, a lifelong loyalty to this group. >> Absolutely. It's part of my story. Um this is legacy. This is not about money.
3:34
This is not about any of those things.
3:35
This is literally um to continue the legacy of something I was like blessed to be led in.
3:40
Like I said before when they they put me down it was like I literally my finger was pricricked. >> You know what I mean?
3:46
Like Havoc is arguably one of the best producers of all times.
3:51
>> And to be able to be led into camp, you know what I'm saying?
3:54
And let me, you know, um just add on and then kind of build from there.
3:58
I mean, >> everything I do, I give credit to Mark Deep. Every beat I do.
4:02
And I always wonder how if Pete would be proud or you know what I'm saying?
4:06
I'm always like I know he would >> you know if I'm working with a new artist or think about it what would he would think but it's like >> everything I do is to continue that legacy.
4:14
So for me, this is personal, you know what I mean?
4:16
And the fact that me and H have were able to put it together first.
4:19
Like we literally got together and was like, you know, it's time with the family, of course, >> a full circle, with the family, with Tasia, with everybody, you know, the crew, No, the whole click.
4:30
And we we really um >> we worked on something and it felt from the from the inception from them first days, it felt like we were back and we felt peace spirit and it was like this is the right thing to do, you know? It was time.
4:42
Can you rewind to me because honestly it's one of my favorite tidbits of information in hip-hop because you guys both had these historic careers.
4:49
Everything you guys have both done separately, but as you say, this is a full circle moment.
4:52
What were those early moments like?
4:54
Cuz I've heard you say this that you knew how to make beats, but he's like Havoc was pivotal in creating the Alchemist that we know now.
5:02
Rewind a little bit and talk about that experience when you get in the room with these guys.
5:06
>> I mean, I feel so lucky.
5:06
It was a time this, you know, we're talking about the late 90s, 99, 2000.
5:14
>> You know, the tunnel was still in New York.
5:16
You know, just set the scene of what we're talking guy. I had moved to New York. I was a young guy.
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I still have my soul assassin ring.
5:21
You know, Mugs >> Respect put me on.
5:23
Now I'm in New York going to school and Mugs connected me with Infamous Mob, which then linked me with Mob Deep.
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>> And you know, >> I was out there by myself.
5:34
>> How old were you at the time?
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>> I like mid 20s, early 20s. >> Yeah. Yeah.
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and and >> old enough to be in the room but young enough to be soaking it up. >> Yes.
5:41
And you know what I you know being able like I had a style and I was developing my my and it was getting better.
5:48
But being able to be around Havoc in the studio like yo he used to make beats from scratch.
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I don't know how much he does it these days but he used to just come in there and J bottle was half finished. You know what I mean?
6:01
They would come in they would come in >> straight out the gate. It would be Jesus.
6:08
>> The whole the whole hood was in the studio and have would just craft beats from scratch and like I would be lying if I didn't learn say I didn't learn like certain drum patterns and how to he used to duck down underneath the the table to hear the bass cuz you know if you in certain studios like the >> if you get in certain areas it's like a bass trap and I used to just watch him like everybody else didn't know what the hell he was doing.
6:28
hell he was doing. watched a friend of mine I watched I watched a friend of mine define the baseline by putting his hand against the woofer and waiting for his hand to pop just enough >> all the techniques to make sure that it's it's got definition >> but we could hear all this what you heard in the room >> you could have retold that story and I have got goosebumps but you didn't even
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thank you but at the time you even need to cuz when we would play your records >> you felt it >> I'm in Oakuckland >> I'm in New Zealand >> Wow >> and we're sitting in our flats living together, listening to loud music, smoking weed, drinking alcohol, being dumb, dumb and young, and the lights are off and we're listening to your records and we feel it thousands of miles away. What was it like in the room
7:08
What was it like in the room when you were making it?
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That beautiful little tiny space between the energy of the room and the creative process.
7:17
>> It was like a journey, right?
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Like a journey for a search for that pot of gold. You know what I mean?
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Just, you know what I mean?
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It's like the never ending search.
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>> It was a nervous feeling, right?
7:28
Like uh >> cuz it sounds so good.
7:32
You like, damn, will it sound good to everybody else? >> Yeah, I know. I got something.
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Is it going to translate? >> Adrenaline rushing. You know what I mean?
7:40
Just adrenaline rush throughout the whole session.
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>> We're going to focus on this new record, but we're kind of just like we're paying our respects at this point.
7:46
So, we're going just stay right there.
7:47
You know, you guys are still back there, by the way. You never left.
7:52
Your spirits are still there.
7:54
So, we're going to reconnect with that just quickly.
7:54
You know, those songs that have traveled, I've been in so many rooms, >> where those songs get played and they are as electrifying and iconic and anthemic as they were the day you put them out.
8:06
So, when did you know shook ones? Did you just know? I know. >> No, I didn't. I didn't. I really didn't know. You know what I mean?
8:13
>> I was looking like I knew as a fan when I heard it, I was like >> changed all of our lives. >> I mean, look, man.
8:20
When I'm walking around Queensbridge projects and everybody's finally playing it, then that's when I knew, you know, >> what's that feel like? >> Incredible. You know what I mean?
8:27
Like your neighborhood is now supporting you, you know what I mean?
8:32
And that's how that's the foundation.
8:33
So, you know, >> and if if Queens is feeling you, we had this argument on air the other day.
8:36
I made the argument that >> Don't do that in front of people from Queens, man.
8:43
>> This the perfect people to do it in front of.
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I said Queens has the greatest MC's history.
8:48
See like >> a man of my own heart. >> I love it.
8:52
>> Did I say he's >> from Seattle? I know. I know.
8:58
>> So if Queens is spilling you and also another thing I'm toot my own horn cuz you in front of me. I said shook ones.
9:04
If if I had to describe New York I'm a little older.
9:06
I was around for the 90s. Okay.
9:08
>> What's the quintessential New York song?
9:11
And I've told people I've told Ebro.
9:12
I've told Zane it's shook ones. Yeah.
9:15
>> So when that catches in Queens, a place that knows MC's and rap music, >> you had to be like, "Oh yeah, we out of here, >> right?" Yeah. Eventually. Yeah.
9:22
I definitely got that feeling.
9:24
Um we carried on the tradition of the Queens MC, you know what I mean?
9:30
Like, and that's a a high bar, you know, being from Queens cuz we got LL Run the MC >> and later on you get 50 and you get Nikki.
9:41
To me, Havoc's production is like the sound of Queens.
9:45
And there's a lot of other people who added on, but and for me when I came in, he had the blueprint already.
9:50
So, I was able to immerse myself in and figure out, but it came from when you think of all the stuff he made and the catalog, it all even Gun and 50 fell off of that tree in my opinion.
10:01
You talk about the sound. >> Yes.
10:03
Can I be super nerdy for a second? Just the hats so loud.
10:04
Just like snare, >> the snare just is punishing.
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obnoxious >> like it's really obnoxious.
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It's like violent right in a great way.
10:13
But I want to talk about the melodies too.
10:15
This idea of um capturing that Kosanostra piano type everything just feels like it's happening in an alleyway with very little light.
10:25
Was it was it movie driven?
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Like where does the inspiration come from to create this feeling that is so visceral?
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you know, set aside from the neighborhood that I grew up in being the inspiration, >> watching movies was my second biggest inspiration.
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Like watching Scarface, Good Fellas, >> King of New York, New Jack City, you know what I'm saying?
10:47
Watching those movies and just hearing a split second of something and being like, "Oh, okay.
10:54
Let me get this V VHS tape and sample this." You know what I mean?
10:57
I I love the moods of you know film that it brings you through.
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So it translate into you know my my production like I want to put you in a mood. >> Yeah.
11:09
You really job done >> that he does >> job.
11:15
I've had arguments with friends.
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We didn't even know why we were arguing cuz you put your beats on, bro.
11:20
>> I was like why are we even having an argument right now? It's mom deep, man. This is what you do. >> That's crazy.
11:25
Um, man, this album is such a blessing because, you know, we would celebrate you regardless and rightfully so, but the fact we get to do it with an album which sounds so exciting today.
11:36
It is additive to what you've created as well.
11:39
Let's talk about the nuts and bolts of putting this together.
11:43
Uh, where this journey began for you, for the two of you, bringing everybody back together, wanting to recapture the spirit of what makes a Mob Deep album come to life. Where did it begin?
11:53
>> For me, it began in my head, right?
11:53
you know, from the moment the untimely passing of, you know, Prodigy, um, the grieving period started and then after a while it's like, yo, we got to get this done, right?
12:05
I have to leave home to get some more inspiration.
12:09
And the first place I go >> is to LA to Alchemist's studio. >> Yeah. >> You know what I mean?
12:16
I go there and I'm like, "Yo, Al, what's up?"
12:21
It's, you know what I mean? Second nature.
12:22
Like, you know what I mean?
12:23
>> I've been in that room.
12:23
It's hard not to want to stay. It's incredible.
12:25
You're surrounded by music and and right there in the middle of it is the temple. >> Yes. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Crazy. >> What about you, Al?
12:33
I mean, when you know when you when when when Havoc shows up and that's your friend. >> Mhm.
12:39
>> To some degree that's your mentor. >> Absolutely.
12:41
>> And he shows up in your room and there's a conversation about, hey, you know, just in the same way you were in the room when I was making beats back in the day and you're absorbing, I'm now in your room. >> Absolutely.
12:50
>> What are we going to do?
12:52
>> I mean, you know, I think a lot of this stuff is based on timing and it felt like the timing was right when we linked up and the conversations we were having and and you know life is short, you know what I mean?
13:03
You know, like do it now.
13:06
You know what I'm saying?
13:06
P is a testament to that.
13:07
And he worked so hard because he probably knew he might not have been here as long as the rest of us.
13:13
And he worked with that type of discipline. Yeah.
13:15
And then us having these gems in these computers and having access and the family getting a hold of some unreleased vocal >> must have been moving and emotional at times. >> Absolutely.
13:26
It was it was like Pete talking to you, you know, and and and um you know, luckily enough, we have a lot of footage, >> you know, and there's tapes of Pete just literally holding the camera or taping it to his uh dashboard and driving around the city talking to the camera. Crazy.
13:41
>> It's like almost like an Instagram live or something.
13:43
And it's it's it's actually eerie cuz PE is just so ahead on so many things and even when you listen to the album some of the lyrics sound topical. >> Yeah.
13:53
>> It's like whoa how you know what I'm saying so relevant >> and some of the best performances I' I I recall of him on record as well like just the tone even more urgent and more direct. >> Urgent.
14:04
Yeah, that's a good word.
14:04
I feel that was that was something in my head when it was time to make the record. Urgent. >> An urgency. >> We have to do this. You know what I mean? Have is here.
14:11
have the spirit of Mob Deep is still here. P is still here. You know what I mean?
14:15
So, we have to, >> you know, put it together.
14:16
And I think from what we had and the time we spent, >> I I when it was we were putting it all together, I felt like it really had the spirit of Mob Deep cuz, you know, we we feel like we have to do justice for P, >> you know. I don't take that light.
14:28
And I think um you know, I was real proud have was >> killing everything, you know, and we had to work around P's vocals, mind you. >> Yeah.
14:37
So it was like it was limited as far as we couldn't just make a song about anything.
14:41
So P really became the leader of the record. >> That's right.
14:44
The creative director just by the very nature that he'd already recorded these things.
14:47
He gave you the blueprint. >> Yes, he did.
14:49
And and and we just kind of crafted around it and hopefully we did justice to it. >> Yep. >> Wow.
14:54
You you guys were talking about timing specifically and this is a conversation we had with Slick Rick earlier.
14:59
It seems like now >> by the way I've had a good day. >> I've had a great day.
15:04
>> Slick Rick the ruler and we were talking about We talking about how it seems we're more receptive now to our ambassadors and our OGs coming back and making music.
15:14
And we point to examples.
15:15
L CoolJ dropped a great album. Clips coming back.
15:17
Who's on who's on your project?
15:19
>> I talked about how Run the Jewels really open the door in a lot of ways by being a new band, but further on in their life than new any new band on the >> Did you guys feel that when we're like, you know what, maybe maybe there was apprehension before, but you're like, yo, there's an audience for this now for us to do it.
15:33
To be honest with you, I always thought about putting out music >> and you know, my colleagues just beat me to the punch. You know what I mean?
15:43
>> You know what I'm saying?
15:43
They just beat me to the punch.
15:45
But um no matter what the temperature was, >> I was always going to just make sure that I put out a Mob Deep album.
15:52
And if they wasn't if they didn't have the appetite, they going to have the appetite today. >> You understand?
15:59
>> You knew that pretty much immediately after the passing, you were like, "We have material.
16:02
We have words and emotions. We have to honor this. >> Absolutely.
16:07
Because I I feel like it was unfinished business. >> You understand?
16:10
The last project was in 2014, >> you know? So, like, come on now.
16:13
Like, nah, we not going to do that.
16:15
We we we have material and we need to let Prodigy's voice be heard.
16:21
>> We need to let Mom Deep's voice be heard. Yep.
16:23
One more go around and then Okay. Then we could chill.
16:28
>> You know what I'm saying? For real.
16:29
>> I was at that roots picnic in LA. >> Okay.
16:31
Yeah, >> you saw that there was an audience for it. >> Yeah, absolutely.
16:34
You understand what I'm saying?
16:36
And it wasn't nothing new about that music >> and it was sold out.
16:38
You understand what I'm saying?
16:40
So, the appetite is there. >> Definitely.
16:42
Look, I mean, you know, rap music, any genre of music that, no matter how shallow in history, it seems in terms of the timeline of something being hundreds of years old versus 40, 50 years old, it doesn't matter. It ages beautifully.
16:53
I listen to the records that came out in 1992.
16:54
People go, "Oh, the golden era."
16:56
I'm like, "No, no, timeless." >> Right. >> Timeless. Mhm.
17:00
>> You know, you can't tell me that that that you know, your your music um tried these records don't sound as as essential today when you put them on.
17:07
I played lyrics to go in a club the other night and it was dominating. >> So crazy, >> right?
17:13
I mean, Mob Deep is an institution in my opinion.
17:15
They are like from the logo to everything they created.
17:19
It's literally like damn near its own genre when you dig into the catalog.
17:23
That's what always separated them, I think, from a lot of groups was the in between cuts, the joints that just leaked out, the freestyles, it was like >> just the chemistry as well.
17:32
The way you two just bounced off each other.
17:35
Sometimes I'd be like, man, there's just a blurring between the verses.
17:37
It's just like the transitions are insane, >> bro.
17:41
You guys had people saying done. Like, I'm from Seattle. Like, yo, son, done.
17:44
Like, we don't we don't talk like that. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
17:47
The D language went a long way, man. >> Yeah.
17:50
>> You know what I'm saying?
17:51
>> Can I ask you a tough question, please?
17:54
Did you did you discuss legacy before he passed?
17:56
Did you talk about what life might be like if he didn't if he didn't get to see a full life because of the circumstances he was dealt?
18:03
>> Well, we never spoke about that, right?
18:05
Like, but there were always moments where we would kill a show, some important show that we would do, and we get backstage to the dressing room and and and Pia look at me and be like, "Yo, we did it."
18:17
>> I'm like, "Yo, but it's 15 years later and he's still like, >> "We did it." You know what I mean?
18:20
Like because it it to me and him I I believe we had this sense of this thing that we did was a miracle.
18:28
You understand what I'm saying?
18:30
To make it from nothing to something into a high level. You understand?
18:34
With everything that we had against us, we weren't commercial at all. No. >> You know what I mean?
18:38
We barely got any play on MTV, you know what I'm saying?
18:43
And >> you know what I'm saying?
18:43
But we had these platinum and gold records, you know what I mean? To to to back us up.
18:49
So, you know, everything that we did, we fought for. >> And legacy, too.
18:52
I mean, you were having platinum records like eight years after you first came out. >> Crazy.
18:58
>> Was y'all mad young, too, when you initially came out? >> Pretty much.
19:01
Uh, you know, when we first put out record out in 1993, we was about Yeah.
19:06
You know, 18, stuff like that. >> Yeah.
19:08
That's a You're damn near a child star, bro. >> Like, that's insane. That's insane.
19:11
What was it like at that time when you had that kind of record that was moving and you knew your lives were changing in real time, but you also had your contemporaries around you, your peers around you?
19:21
And I think it's safe to say for anyone who's a lifelong rap fan, let alone the people who helped create the architecture and the music within it, that it was a very competitive time.
19:28
And as much as there was support, there was limited attention for hit records in the genre.
19:34
And so you are dominating.
19:34
You've got attention out there.
19:36
What was it like walking the line between camaraderie and competition? >> I mean, it was tough. You know what I mean?
19:42
You got Wu Tang out there, you got Biggie, you got Nas, you got all these people.
19:46
>> You really don't have time to think about competition.
19:48
The most thing you could do is like think about making a dope record. >> Yeah.
19:52
>> You know, cuz if you get lost in that, you know, about, oh man, we got to make a bet.
19:57
You you going to fumble, you know?
19:59
So, we just had to like put our blinders on and just make mob deep music.
20:03
And that's why I think it sounded so different from anything else that was kind of out at the time. >> Yeah.
20:08
You know, you've talked about obviously the the mentorship that you experienced, but but I think I'd also like to reference, you know, Tip Q-Tip who changed your life. >> Absolutely.
20:19
>> For the people that don't know, I mean, a chance meeting ultimately led to to a life-changing experience. >> Yeah.
20:24
I mean, that was a blessing, right?
20:25
Uh we came, Steve Riiffken signed it signed us.
20:28
We get the loud Steve is like, "You can do whatever you want, but we knew we needed some kind of assistance, right?"
20:34
Like, you know, the training wheels was off. We knew Tip already.
20:38
He agreed to like, "Hey, I hope y'all mixing.
20:40
I'll throw you some tracks, whatever, whatever."
20:42
So, that was like there's no infamous album without Q-Tip.
20:48
>> He didn't Didn't it go further back than that where you actually he actually kind of opened the door for you to some degree?
20:54
>> I mean, pretty much, you know, we uh met him down by Def Jam and all of that.
20:57
You know what I'm saying?
20:59
And, you know, one thing led to another and we forged a relationship >> that uh you know, helped us move forward in this industry.
21:06
How impactful as a producer for you was it to spend time with him because Q-Tip's one of the great producers in the genre across any kind of music.
21:13
>> I mean, you know, that was my mentor, you know what I mean?
21:16
At that in in real time, you know, I had to learn learn on the job, you know what I mean?
21:20
And I had to really refrain from fanning out, you know what I mean?
21:27
This is Q-Tip, >> you know what I mean?
21:30
Like all the dope records that we are talking about, he already made, >> right?
21:35
>> You know what I And I'm sitting next to him like, "Yo, bro, this is my teacher, >> you know."
21:41
>> Yo, and that speaks to not only how great Q-Tip is, but think about go one step further.
21:45
So, he creates all the great music that they create with Tribe, his solo albums.
21:48
He influences you and then a whole another thing is happening in LA. And famously, Dr.
21:51
Dre said Q-Tips music influenced him to make the chronic. >> I believe that.
21:58
So, so think about Q-Tips influencing just not in Queens and New York hip hop, but all the way over here.
22:04
Like that's >> Yeah, >> that's wild.
22:07
>> Dude made Brooklyn Dodges. >> He's did everything. He did everything.
22:12
And back then, I didn't know about samples like that.
22:13
Like also, he was kind of like our first DJ uh playlist.
22:18
Like I discovered ramp >> through here in Tribe Called Quest.
22:20
The samples like yo, he was like like somebody put you up on some music.
22:25
He was putting us up on things through the beats and like how those drum breaks blended with those loops to this day, >> right?
22:33
>> Still, I didn't know back then that I thought it was just a piece of music, but the the the artistry that he was doing of gluing breaks with loops and the Donald Bird sample he put on footsteps is like a split second in the middle of that song, which if you listen to the original has so much Donald Burr going on around it, like there's no way you're going to be able to flip that and give it like space.
22:54
and he just flipped it like >> incredible >> and a great curator.
22:58
I mean, you know, again, and we can move on a second, but respect to Q-Tip, who's a friend and and and a part of the Apple family, man.
23:03
He not only heard greatness in you, but everyone knows about his relationship with Dyler.
23:10
>> And you know, listen, I felt similar way how I, you know, I don't know how Dilla felt, but when they put me on, >> it was a similar thing like Havoc, you know what I'm saying?
23:20
The same way when I was being mentored by mugs, >> you know, like I had the blessing to be around some greats and that I think a lot is to be said cuz I know have even told me about days when you was with large professor. >> Yeah. Brought you over there.
23:34
How >> that affected you or I remember a day in the studio going to see have pee and they weren't there yet >> and this dude comes parks a bins outside. It's 1 in the morning.
23:43
I'm sitting in soundtrack waiting for y'all.
23:46
Dude parks with Benz and comes in with a bag of records and goes, "Yo, is Buster here yet?"
23:49
They're like, "Nah, he's not here yet."
23:50
He said, "I'm going to go in the room and just make some beats."
23:51
And I'm sitting in the hallway.
23:53
I'm like, "Who is this dude?"
23:54
And he goes in and starts chopping up some samples and he's making a beat.
23:57
And I'm sitting there going, >> one day, you know who it was?
24:01
>> That was LP >> Rashad Smith. >> Oh, wow.
24:04
>> Shout out to Rashad, man. Dice.
24:04
I told him that story later, but you know, like just a blessing to be around all these greats, man.
24:10
Is >> you were just soaking it up.
24:13
>> I was jealous that day. We had the Ben outside.
24:15
I was like, Buster just lets them come in the room and make beats.
24:18
Hey, >> I'm trying to think of like the key moment in your journey where you got out of the corridor, out of the waiting room and got into the room.
24:24
Would you know what it was? >> Mar Deep.
24:28
>> You could literally place my career on a timeline, you know, of course dilated in Mugs and Cypress put me on.
24:32
But once Bob Deep stamped me, that's how Nas wanted to work with me.
24:35
CNN, Far Fat Joe, I could name, >> you know what else, man?
24:40
I've talked to you about this for a second.
24:41
If I could just nerd out for a second, but I feel this is way further down the timeline than that, but I feel like that whole that whole we going to make it era was pretty that flat.
24:51
>> Well, yeah, that that helps.
24:52
>> That might be my favorite. I'm not going to lie.
24:53
That might be my favorite beat you did.
24:55
>> Holy I still can't figure out how the you flip that.
24:57
the real >> Yeah, me neither.
24:58
Yeah, it was just a great timing, man.
25:00
And like also being able to work with these guys when think about it, Mob DJ, they were the top of the top.
25:07
>> This was raw hardcore rap, but this was also connecting in the clubs, on the streets. everywhere.
25:11
So, I just caught a great era, you know what I mean?
25:14
You like being in New York and being able to work with these guys at their height >> is I don't, you know, I just feel lucky. You know what I mean?
25:21
Leave some things behind.
25:23
>> But one of the through lines here of this conversation is is, you know, being a student, right?
25:25
Recognizing that there's that there's you're in a room to learn and there are people here that you that can impart wisdom and knowledge and talent and creativity and and ultimately give you the tools. >> Absolutely.
25:37
I mean, that's what it's all about as a producer cuz you come into the game just learning, right?
25:41
And wanting to learn more and being, you know, blessed enough to be around these other great producers.
25:50
>> If you not trying to learn, then you you soon will exit this game. You know what I mean? For real.
25:57
>> You know that feeling that you got when you got adrenaline, when you knew and you got that nervousness in your belly.
26:01
What's a song on this album where you made something and you got that feeling again and you knew?
26:04
And I'm sure there's a lot, but is there one that jumps out? Oh man. Uh, Against the World. >> You know what I mean?
26:10
Against the World Really was like, >> you knew it was the opener from the getgo, right?
26:13
You just got that feeling. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, "Wow." You know what I mean?
26:17
Like, so >> I was I It was It was It was a good feeling. >> I love this, bro.
26:24
>> Can I want to talk about this cuz we've we've given you guys both giving each other flowers and Alchemist, you're making it very clear the influence that Havoc had on you.
26:30
But Havoc, what is it like for you to see him branch off and have his own six?
26:34
Cuz I mean honestly, bro, one of my favorite albums this year is the one you did with Larry June and >> which one?
26:39
He put out 19 with Larry June in the last six months. >> The Larry Jun.
26:43
>> The guy puts out 38 albums a month and every one of them is good. I can't I can't deal.
26:50
>> The guy's actually 19 years old.
26:50
Look how exhausted he is making that much music.
26:54
>> So, how does that work? I don't know.
26:55
Does he send it to you first?
26:55
When do you just stream and you hear?
26:57
What's it like for you when you hear some of his work?
26:59
You like my >> like to hear some of his work?
27:01
>> First of all, number one, it's inspirational.
27:02
You understand what I'm saying?
27:05
And whatever bug he was bit by, I'm looking for the bug.
27:07
You understand what I'm saying?
27:09
Like I'm like, "Yeah, I need some of that." You know what I mean?
27:13
But yo, it's like >> that's what we want to see, right?
27:17
That's what we want to champion because if he excels, the game excels.
27:19
You understand what I'm saying?
27:23
That work ethic is something that people need to witness and see and like, yo, get up off your ass >> and get to work.
27:30
You and a collection of artists have literally propped a certain feeling that we get from listening to to rap music. >> You prop that up.
27:37
Like what you've been doing with with Griselda, with the crew, with Larry June, with everybody else, and the consistency and dedication that you've applied to it.
27:45
My favorite game in the world right now is to go and play who sampled on Alchemist Beat and know that I'm clocking about 17% recognizability.
27:55
There is no You will not find the brakes. You will not get them. >> It's a blessing, man. I have fun still.
28:01
I don't, you know, the opportunities and having access to all these great artists.
28:04
I mean, I feel like it's just starting to get good, as crazy as that sounds.
28:07
I know it's been a long ride, but like now is starting to feel like we can really do what we want and we have this like climate that I feel like or this environment that we created.
28:17
You know, if it's >> freedom and altitude >> freedom, but I don't feel cuz we now we have the live element, we got the merchandise, we're doing physical.
28:23
So we have like this full ecosystem and it's like >> P would have nobody better would have been than Prodigy in this era because he preached this from the gate.
28:33
>> He was always about independence and doing your own thing.
28:35
And I I think about him with everything I do, like literally like cuz he kind of had the idea first and I feel like it's just a a good time.
28:45
And I don't take it light because the artists that I listen to and you know was raised off of, I feel like, okay, they did their thing and inspired us now. Maybe it's my time.
28:54
I got to do what we're doing now and inspire the next batch.
28:59
And some kid will come up and be like, yo, I was listening to whatever it is.
29:02
You know, the crazy thing about ALK, though, is I don't even feel like ALK, like ALC is an independent label.
29:06
That's how beautiful the experience has become.
29:08
I know it is, but it presents itself like a captain of industry.
29:12
And that's what I love about, you know, that that independent thing can often feel like a booby prize almost like, oh, you're an independent artist. Good luck with that.
29:19
And people don't go deep enough into the math to realize it's more profitable.
29:22
There's more freedom if you work hard enough.
29:23
But I feel like you've walked the line between establishing that business ethos, but you've built a brand that feels like it holds its place on the high street with any other major label.
29:33
I mean, you know, we we did that all came after cuz first it was the music and the artistry.
29:38
Then figuring out a way to make it profitable was like the blessing to me cuz we there was a lot of years when it wasn't, >> you know, we could go back to 2008 9 10 11 when it was like when it was kind of like rough for this style of music like where you know what I mean?
29:52
And then little by little, necessity became the mother of invention and things.
29:56
We started making higher quality product and lemonade and doing direct consumer things.
30:02
And it was like after time it was like you keep your head down and you're just running through through the line.
30:07
Then you look up and you're like, >> "Yeah, >> was it's okay now." >> Yeah.
30:10
Cuz they said I was dead.
30:10
It was right around that era. Well, you didn't. You knew.
30:14
But >> a handful of people, I don't want to say me, but there was a handful of people I'll say that were all we were all together.
30:20
And like a movement never happens when a bunch of people get have a meeting and go, "Yo, let's do this movement." That's true.
30:25
>> It just happens when a collection of people are all down and are just doing their thing >> and before you know it, >> it builds something bigger.
30:31
And I feel like that's kind of where we're at now.
30:34
And >> before we get back to this album, I got to ask you, do you know off top of your head how big the how big the ALC catalog is right now?
30:40
Like how many how many pieces of >> It's extensive, man.
30:44
>> It's extensive, right? >> Yes. And still growing. So >> Oh, dude. >> Yes. Every more to come.
30:48
>> Every every January 1st, man.
30:48
Man, me and my friends sit around and go, "How many ALK records are we going to this year?"
30:54
It's going to be a good year.
30:55
It's going to be a good year.
30:55
I reckon >> I want blessings to you and thank you so much for everything that you do.
30:59
I know we know each other a little bit. I appreciate you, man. For real.
31:02
I mean, that means most coming, you know, getting it back is like that's why we do it, you know.
31:07
>> You should you should hear how well he talks about you when you're not around.
31:10
Like we be on the radio and be like, "How come my man, you know, that's my friend." I appreciate that. I appreciate that. All right.
31:17
I I want to uh I want to talk about this album in more detail.
31:19
I want to talk about each of your favorite moment from Prodigy on this record.
31:26
>> Every verse, >> you know what I mean?
31:27
Getting to hear these verses from him, being able to, you know, revamp them, bring them back to life, hearing him as if he's in the room is is just special for me. Definitely.
31:40
Is there a line or a verse or a moment you were working on this record that really grabbed you when you heard his voice and it just reminded you?
31:49
>> I mean, Porter Henny, his verse is heavy.
31:51
You know, >> that that verse is like uh the whole time we were like once, you know, have had to beat for it and it was like >> we ran that back a lot cuz it was just like he was talking from, you know, where he's at.
32:04
Like it was it was freaky, you know, and but but it was like for him to even write like that was always tripped me out.
32:10
Like he just he knew no bounds and he wasn't afraid to go anywhere.
32:14
It was like uh that that verse definitely was one that I remember we were like >> crazy you know like how the the perspective he was rhyming from you know but >> yeah and you know throughout the whole album making it was definitely um emotional but also like a a a positive feeling too cuz I felt like we were doing the right thing.
32:35
>> You made the record in entirely in in the studio in your studio. Half and half.
32:39
Half came out and then we went out to New York and we crafted everything together and we felt like that was important too to like >> and and just bouncing ideas back and forth and he half is the leader you know he's sound so like for me it was like >> you got what four cuts on there. >> Yeah.
32:53
And always every mob album always just added some things.
32:55
So I felt it was right to do the same formula where it was like he already had the meat and potatoes.
33:02
So it was like okay let me see >> what type of sauces I can add to this.
33:06
And that was always the formula anyway.
33:08
So, >> how are you road testing these things?
33:10
Like, say you're out in New York and you're in your studio.
33:11
You got something cooking. You like it. You got a monitor mix.
33:13
You haven't got it through the mastering level yet, but you want to go make sure it feels good.
33:16
You driving, you walking.
33:17
How are you figuring it out? >> I'm driving.
33:19
I'm playing it in in the car. That's that's my Tesla.
33:21
That's my true test >> is playing it in the car. >> Yeah.
33:26
>> I want to talk about um the experience of m of of being mature and having everybody back again and knowing what it's like to sort of capture the the true essence of Mob Deep and the energy and the danger of of telling these stories.
33:36
And there is a danger to the music.
33:38
It does have that feeling when you walk down the street listening to it in your headphones.
33:41
Like it gives you that feeling again.
33:42
Um what it was like having everybody back together who was still with you and what it was and what that felt like with some lifelinking was happening.
33:52
It was just the energy was different in the studio.
33:55
>> It felt more responsible, right?
33:55
Like you know less Hennessy spilled on the track board and things of that nature.
34:03
It felt more responsible.
34:03
But it felt good though, right?
34:05
like to bring the team back together, the peoples, and you know, just vibing out, just making sure that the project came out good.
34:14
>> I visited New York way before I ever went to New York through your guys' music like you guys always painted that picture for me. I felt it.
34:22
>> Did you know you had that responsibility with so many people or were you just making then after the fact you realized like, >> oh, we created a soundsscape for a whole city?
34:31
Yeah, we was just trying to create a soundsscape for our neighborhood, you know what I mean?
34:36
To just transcend it, you know, after we released it.
34:38
So, we was just trying to represent, you know, our hood.
34:42
We wasn't even trying to be like, "Yo, let's just put the city on our back."
34:46
Nah, we was just repping Queens Bridge, you know what I mean? Just straight up.
34:49
And then, you know, people love that, you know what I mean?
34:53
When you when you give them a glimpse inside of your neighborhood because, you know, everybody has a neighborhood.
34:58
>> It's the purest art form to me.
34:58
Like that's what hip-hop is >> straight up. >> Yeah.
35:02
>> You know, you tal you talked about Porter Henny featuring Nas, you know, fellow Queensbridge icon, legend, you know, still alive, still here and still essential on the mic without a shadow of a doubt.
35:11
And by the way, kind of money he could have checked out a long time ago.
35:14
I mean, >> you know, that tech, God bless that tech money, man.
35:17
I mean, he's very savvy investor.
35:19
Uh but um you know it's just an incredible artist and obviously that's a lifelong relationship and um you just just speak to that and how that relationship has grown.
35:30
>> Man, you know it's one of those things like it it's super dope.
35:32
I I've known him since preschool.
35:36
Hung out as teenagers that far back >> like really ask him you know like >> wow I didn't know it went that far back >> you know. Yeah. Yeah.
35:44
N we go so way back and then the reconnect as teenagers before he even was on live at the barbecue before that >> and then back then I'm just going we're going to play ping pong here because there's so much this I'm interested in with your blessings.
35:58
So even as a teenager you know and you've known him as a kid as kids.
36:02
>> Did you recognize the ambition and the talent even then or did it surprise you when he started showing up?
36:08
>> I'll tell you a story real quick. I knew he rhymed. He knew I rhymed.
36:10
So I was like, "Okay, you know what I'm saying?
36:14
let me let me hear you rap.
36:14
And when he wrapped I was like a man that's not fair. You know what I mean?
36:18
Like I was like like a matter of fact I wrapped first, right?
36:23
I raped first thinking like yeah man.
36:25
You know what I'm saying? Then he did a rum.
36:27
I'm like ah you tricked me.
36:29
You know what I'm saying?
36:31
>> You know what I'm saying?
36:31
It's like street disciple my back.
36:35
I'll be right back for people that >> when Nas first dropped it was like LeBron James of rap.
36:39
It was like this this rap prodigy that just a whole wave came over.
36:45
>> I always I mean for many reasons, but I but I love Large Professor so much is that he gave him >> he gave him barbecue, right?
36:52
He knew and everybody knew, >> you know, and it's like I I want to say the other MC's on that song knew cuz I'm sure everyone bought their best game and it's a great posy cut.
37:02
It's a great group cut, but anyone who heard that song knew.
37:08
So Large Professor must have known. >> He knew.
37:11
If anyone knew Large Professor knew cuz think about it like you know he told me stories that he used to sneak Nas into the studio when when uh Eric B and Rock Kim wasn't there like when they had time off some of them demos he believed in Nas like he saw it first.
37:24
I mean you anyone in Queensbridge saw it but as far as a producer the level of large >> got to give him his credit. He saw that. >> Yeah. Imagine crazy. >> You know Pitchfork.
37:40
>> You know Pitchfork today.
37:40
This week you very much remember Pitchfork for good reason, >> right?
37:44
>> Uh you know there has been the uh 100 best albums of all rap albums of all time.
37:49
Greatest rap albums of all time.
37:50
Um, you know, there was a reader poll and then there was an editor's poll, editorial poll.
37:55
In the reader poll, um, you know, Queensbridge nastic number one >> on the editorial poll.
38:03
>> Queensbridge, >> mob deep, >> right?
38:06
>> It's a beautiful thing. >> I'm not mad at it.
38:07
I'm not mad at it at all >> cuz Queens got the best MC's. >> There you go. There you go. He's on to something.
38:15
Let's talk let's just talk talk a little bit about what that means though because obviously lists are a part of life. We love to make them.
38:20
We love to talk about them.
38:21
They kick you know they they kick the benality of of real life wide open and we get to talk for a minute, right?
38:28
And celebrate for a minute.
38:28
Um but but for you especially on the eve of this new album to be honored in that way.
38:32
Uh can you just put into words what it felt like to know that that that you know that there's a respect there amongst music people?
38:44
Yeah, it feels good because you know, you know, look, sometimes you Mob Deep be me being Mob Deep, we feel a little underrated, right? You know what I mean?
38:53
Cuz we didn't get some of the looks that other people got.
38:55
But to know that, you know, your peers is still revering you >> and and saying, "Hey, man, your album is is number one."
39:03
It's like it's it's not taken lightly.
39:06
You know what I'm saying? I I appreciate it. You know what I mean?
39:10
And on the heels of us dropping this album is definitely a good look.
39:15
>> You couldn't have written it better.
39:15
You couldn't have marketed it better, >> right?
39:18
>> Yo, that's what's interesting to me is you said rightfully so that you feel underrated.
39:22
Did you ever want to play that game where you tried to make a hit or like a radio?
39:26
So, did you ever want to do that? >> Nah.
39:29
You know, because once you start playing that game, I think it's kind of over. >> You know what I mean?
39:33
You really got to let the art flow. You know what I mean?
39:37
Now then it's becoming like you know commercial and you know nah nah.
39:40
So we always like kind of try to keep it organic.
39:46
>> I'm glad y'all did >> bringing it back to you out for a second and just talking about your contributions to this album. >> Yeah. >> Uh gunfire.
39:53
>> Gunfire pow pow pow pow pow. Um >> pow pow.
39:57
You know, I I don't know how you allocate and move and how you select and move, but I'm going to assume that with the greatest respect to all of your family and friends and collaborators and creators of which we love that we work with that you are looking at this opportunity on a Mob Deep album with your friend here as a chance to really find something or create something that is like, "All right, like I've got to put everything into this one."
40:22
like can you just talk us through how you went through sort of creating the music for this album and whether it did feel even again with with respect a little different given how your story started and interweaved it is with the Mob Deep story.
40:36
I didn't want to psych myself out, but it was definitely pressure I put on myself just thinking about the legacy and um how um how much Mob Deep means to me before I knew them, once I met them, how they changed my life, you know what I mean?
40:50
So, I was uh yeah, I was making sure that the the beats and the sounds that I was bringing to the table were um special and unique.
40:57
And also, you got to remember like Mob Deep has a sound. >> Exactly.
41:03
You know, so it was like, you know, like Taj Mahal or Gunfire. Like who else?
41:06
Who else is going to rap on that beat?
41:10
>> Just you'll just hear it and go, "Oh, that sounded like a Mob Deep." >> No, it's evident.
41:13
It's soon as you hear it, you know, >> it's a mob.
41:15
And I think more than anything, I was trying to make sure that we rekindled the sound which was created by my brother Havoc.
41:21
And it was like >> I was trying to stay in that spirit more than a dazzling beat or anything.
41:26
It was like we got to the sound was always so rich and important.
41:31
And I feel like there's kind of a void now that P's not hearing.
41:35
We're not able to do this as often.
41:37
So it's like the sound, you know, I wanted it to be like the minute you hear it, like the minute you hear Against the World or Taj Mahal, it's like out the gate and then Peace Voice comes in and you are reminded of what they brought to the game.
41:50
So you know, of course, everybody who I work with knows, you know, how important Mob Deep is to me.
41:57
You know, I'm working with Erica.
41:59
The reason we connected was over the realist. Yeah.
42:01
>> You know what I'm saying?
42:01
Everything goes back to Mob Deep.
42:03
So, I didn't take it light and um I feel like people will will feel that when they hear the records.
42:09
>> Gentlemen, you talked about the footage that that that you have archival footage of of your brother, of your friend who's no longer with us.
42:15
Um and and of you, I'm sure, creating this album before this album.
42:18
We talked about the records you make feeling like movies.
42:21
There's a sense of like an immersiveness and when you listen to the record, it's not just a record. It's more than that.
42:25
You know, there's a documentary here, isn't there?
42:30
Isn't there something here that that that that is an extension of this renewal, this this this new 2.
42:34
0, this album, this completion of the relationship on record?
42:38
Isn't there a story to tell beyond the music? >> I mean, absolutely.
42:43
I mean, you can see that from the footage that we used and, you know, the archival footage that, you know, we got from Alchemist.
42:52
>> Um, that the story is still yet to be told, you know, the full story.
42:55
This is the audio version right now that we putting out, you know.
42:58
But, um, there's definitely going to be a visual out there that, you know, just to complete the Mob Deep story so people could get a a idea of what we went through, you know, and how we got to where we are, you know, and I I I think the fans deserve it.
43:18
>> And at the center of that, is it friendship? >> Absolutely. You know what I mean? It's it's a friendship.
43:23
Uh, you know, a brotherhood.
43:26
You know, me and P were tight.
43:29
You know, I've known him longer than I didn't know him. You know what I mean?
43:34
>> Um, we met in high school, you know, as teenagers and watched each other grow, become different people, but still stuck together, you know what I mean?
43:44
And and it's tough, you know, having a group with two different people that might have two different ideas, but holding it together for the collective, it is a miracle for the collective good. It is what it is. Yeah.
43:57
We had our ups and downs, you know what I mean? We did. We did. >> What a blessing.
44:00
You were able to to to climb that mountain and come down the other side together. >> Yeah, man. >> You know what I mean?
44:06
Because because dude, you know, life is life. It has its own ideas. >> It really does.
44:13
>> You know, >> congratulations uh, you know, on finishing this project, this album, which is just, dude, it's it is top to bottom pure quality.
44:21
There's only that's the only way to describe it. >> True indeed.
44:24
I mean, I'm I'm happy with the with the project for real.
44:26
Like, I'm really really happy what Al did and, you know, happy what we did together.
44:32
Is I think people gonna enjoy this one, man.
44:36
>> And the prevailing sensation at this point now is gratitude. >> Straight up. >> Absolutely, man. Absolutely.
44:40
Still still out here killing it.
44:43
Shout out to, you know, Ghost Ray.
44:46
>> Thank you to Nas, you know, the clips, everybody came through. No.
44:48
I feel like we >> Whose idea was it to get the great Georgia Smith on this record, man? So good.
44:53
Well, we need to thank him >> for real.
44:57
And speak speaking of Ray, me and Ray Quin got a 30th anniversary tour coming up cuz you know it's the 30th anniversary of the infamous album, 30th anniversary of the Cubid Link.
45:06
So that's just another element like we was talking about Appetite earlier. So the appetite's there.
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We we got to remind these people like, yo, >> you know what I'm saying? Come out chain swinging.
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>> That year that year in hip-hop, man. >> Yeah, man. 1995 was was a year. >> Yeah. It was a year. >> It was.
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>> We'd have to remind us we're going to be at that show.
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>> Um, I really really enjoyed seeing you both.
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It's great to meet you at last after a life of listening to your music and being inspired by the by the records that you make, >> you know. Good to see you again. >> Always. >> Sometimes, man.
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I I don't know if you're still down the same spot.
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Sometimes I drive and I I'm going to just like knock on the door. I can't find it. It's like the Batcave.
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>> If it's like 8:00 in the morning, I'm there. 7.
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>> It's like It's like below a tire shop next to a bakery. Okay.
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>> It's like there's eight businesses around it and 19 doors and somewhere in there Alchemist is make imagine.
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>> I'm going to pin drop it for you.
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I got >> Thank you, brother.
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It's great to see you both, man.
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God bless this brand new Mob Deep album and Two icons in the building. Thank you. >> Thank you, man. Thank you.