0:00
So, he's written, I think, five or six best-selling business books, non-fiction business books, and business life hack type books.
Search this video
0:08
And if he was going to do just another one of those, it would have been like, "Okay, cool."
0:11
Like, you know, just going back to the, you know, what butter is your bread, right? That's That makes sense.
0:14
But instead, he's like, "I'm going to build like a world like Game of Thrones."
0:20
He's like, "I'm going to build a whole thing around like this."
0:21
Like, I'm going to It's an entire fantasy world.
0:26
All the characters are roosters. Okay. There's eight houses.
0:29
They compete in the great games.
0:31
And they do this like, you know, then, you know, there's a war and there's different classes and there's blah blah all the all the things like if you create like a a sort of a giant fantasy like, you know, Tolkien or or George R. R. Martin style thing.
0:43
And along with it, there's like basically an NFT which you can buy that basically is not like is is literally just like you're buying a piece of art.
0:50
And you're buying a ticket into the entertainment of like watching him build this world. What's up?
1:03
In this episode, we're talking about hanging out with Tim Ferriss, a guy that we've looked up to for a long time, and some of the insights that he he shared with us.
1:08
We talk about meeting a real estate billionaire and his model, how he built from scratch in 7 years to about a billion dollars in real estate assets.
1:19
We talked about the opportunity to build SaaS tools for OnlyFans.
1:21
You're You're going to want to hear that.
1:25
And then last but not least, Sam's got a a friend who's created his own, I don't know, religion, sort of like the Amish people who love money.
1:33
Kind of It is almost like Amish people who love money. I'm going to this thing.
1:37
I'm going to give a big update on it next week.
1:39
But in this episode, when we start off, I'll tell you a little bit about it.
1:42
I think you're going to dig it.
1:43
But yes, that's the episode. Listen up. All right, we live.
1:47
Can I tell you about an interesting call I had with uh with your old pal, Tim Ferriss?
1:52
I'm so eager to hear this.
1:52
I only asked you a few questions because I was waiting to to hear about this.
1:58
So, I interviewed Tim Ferriss because he's got like a new NFT project that came out today or it's coming out today.
2:06
And um so I was like, "Hey, you should Yeah, called Cockpunch. Right? So, I was like, "Okay. What's that about?"
2:13
And um I was like, "Yo, you should come on the Milk Road and like tell your story and um blah blah blah."
2:20
And I've met Tim Ferriss one time in my life.
2:22
You've met him a lot more than that, I think, cuz he was an investor in the Hustle and was kind of like lived around the same area as you or whatever.
2:30
But, I've met him one time.
2:31
And I guess I'll I'll just I want to tell you three things.
2:33
One, it's pretty interesting to meet people who you've really gotten to know through their content. Uh what what was it?
2:41
The The OnlyFans girl who came on here called it a parasocial relationship where it's like, "I feel like I know a lot about you and to you, I'm a complete stranger, but you know, I feel like we're close friends cuz I know so much about you and you don't even know who the hell I am."
2:57
That's how I feel with Tim Ferriss.
2:58
That's how people feel with you and I, I bet.
3:00
Yeah, it happens with with you and I um and you know, I was like, "Well, and it's just like a weird dynamic."
3:04
There's no no It's not like bad or good.
3:05
It's It's like a strange dynamic.
3:07
It's a natural thing that happens with content like this.
3:10
So, I read The 4-Hour Workweek when I was in college and I got, you know, before COVID-19, there was the 4-Hour fever.
3:18
And the 4-Hour fever was what happened to you right when you read that book.
3:21
For the next 4 hours, you question every part of your life and you start fever dreaming about quitting everything, you know, hiring a VA to do your job, going and living in Argentina, and you know, like basically creating some online passive income business that's going to give you 7K a month cuz that's your freedom number.
3:38
And so, like and I know this because everybody I gave the book to, I'm like, "Look, you might want to clear the schedule cuz you're going to have the 4-Hour fever as soon as you're done with this.
3:46
Um like just don't make plans because you Whatever they are, they're going to get busted by this."
3:51
And sure enough, that's exactly what happened.
3:52
So, Four Hour Workweek is one of those books that I found to be really, really life-changing.
3:56
uh informative, life-changing, especially at the time that I read it.
3:58
I was 20, 21 years old, trying to figure out what I wanted to do with my life, and um it was a new It was somebody saying, "Yo, here's how I live."
4:06
And it was totally different than everybody else.
4:09
Okay, so that's how I knew him.
4:11
Um you knew him in a different way.
4:11
Can you describe how you knew him, and then I want to tell you some of the takeaways I had from this interview.
4:17
So, I initially met him when I was I was coming home at 6:00 a. m.
4:20
from the hospital after I got a kidney stone.
4:22
My wife was driving me, and I was sitting in the passenger seat, and I was super messed up on morphine and all types of drugs, and I pull up to my house, and I go, "Sarah, what the hell is Tim Ferriss doing in front of our house?"
4:36
And uh I see him, I go, "Tim, what's up, bro?
4:40
What are you doing here?"
4:41
And uh he's like, "Oh, I live down the block." I was like, "Oh, sick.
4:45
Hey, you got any uh cures for kidney stones?"
4:47
And I just sounded like a total [ __ ] And then, 2 days later, I see him again.
4:51
I go, "Tim, what's going on, man?
4:52
I just want to apologize.
4:52
I I was come from the hospital.
4:54
I was all hopped up on drugs, but I'm a huge fan.
4:56
That's cool that you're you're you live around here."
4:59
And then, through that, we just started walking our dogs like in the park every once in a while together, and I would just see him in the park.
5:04
Then, a few weeks later, I get an email from Tim saying, "Hey, I want to learn about emailing. I like the hustle. Teach me about it.
5:12
Can you go out You Can you meet me at this restaurant in my neighborhood?"
5:14
I go and meet him at that restaurant, and he goes, "Oh, what the hell? You're the dog guy?" I go, "What's up, man?"
5:18
He goes, "Why didn't you It's so I basically he cold emailed me, and I never told him who I was, and it was a total coincidence.
5:25
And And that's how I got to know him.
5:26
So, I want to say two things.
5:28
One, I'm going to tell people my philosophy about meeting people that you kind of, you know, admire or you think highly of in some way.
5:40
And the main trick that I have is I admire parts of people, not the whole. Totally.
5:46
And this is a key, key thing that I think a lot of people get wrong.
5:48
They look at it as a binary yes or no thing.
5:52
Oh, this person, do you love them or do you do you not do you hate them, right?
5:56
Are they the best or they the worst, right?
5:57
Are they are they your hero or they not your hero?
5:59
And I never think like that because when you meet people, you see this like full 360 picture of them and you're like, oh, like no, for example, I met Tim Ferriss and he's actually quite quiet in person the first time I met him.
6:11
He's super quiet and shy.
6:12
And he's a little bit introverted or shy and and then when he did say things, I was like, oh, wow, that's like a little bit of the Tim Ferriss that I I, you know, I've I've heard or followed coming out.
6:24
But also I was like, you know, even though I love 10 things about this guy, there's a couple things about him that I wouldn't want to emulate, right?
6:30
There's six things I'd want to copy, let's say about the way that Tim Ferriss lives his life.
6:34
But I was like, oh, you know, something that's really important to me is like, let's say kids or having a family and I don't know if it's important to him or not.
6:42
I don't know him that well, but he doesn't have that.
6:44
So I don't want to I don't want to be him, right?
6:46
I don't want to be the whole, but there's parts of him that I think are awesome that I would love to steal for my game.
6:50
And I think about this with everybody.
6:53
you like standing over him and he's just sitting down and you're poking him with a stick and you're like, come on, tell me life hacks. Like Come on.
7:02
Yeah, basically what you did with your kidney stone thing.
7:03
He's like, you ever seen you ever one of these on your feet? What do you do?
7:06
Yeah, what's this rash mean to you? I don't know, man.
7:07
Maybe you should ask a doctor.
7:11
And so same thing with Tony Robbins. I love Tony Robbins.
7:15
But do I love the whole Tony Robbins? No.
7:17
I love parts of Tony Robbins.
7:17
And some people are like, dude, what about that thing he did or that thing he said?
7:22
I'm like, ah, I don't I mean, I don't know about that.
7:23
And if he did do that, that would be bad.
7:25
But I love his public speaking.
7:28
I think he's amazing at that.
7:29
And that's what I try to steal from him.
7:30
Or I love his mindset around XYZ and that's what I've adopted from him.
7:34
That's been really helpful.
7:34
And there's other stuff that's either not applicable or not admirable. Well, it's fine.
7:37
I just don't take that, right?
7:40
I'm just walking through the farmers market picking up little bits and pieces of people and being like, oh, you know, like Conor McGregor now is like basically looks like he's like a roid head, you know, like I don't know.
7:51
He's got allegations of sexual assault and he's just cooked out or who knows? The guy's nuts.
7:58
But like Conor McGregor from the years 2015 to 2018, you know, what they call the young hungry Conor, that's the Conor I liked.
8:06
That was the things I drew a lot from and I don't let the other stuff really tarnish that cuz I'm just only looking for the good and the bad I just say, oh, somebody else can pick that that bad apple up.
8:15
I'm not taking that out of the farmers market. Right?
8:18
So that's just my general philosophy. Okay.
8:19
So let me tell you some of the nuggets that I took away from this interview cuz it was supposed to be I mean, frankly speaking, it was supposed to be like Tim Ferriss comes on the Rogan that's cool.
8:29
That's just sort of like a bucket list item thing for me.
8:30
But you know, for him obviously it was a good way to get the word out about his NFT project.
8:35
So I thought I went in with like, you know, pretty low expectations.
8:38
Generally when somebody goes on to like announce the launch of something, they're kind of just shilling that thing. He didn't do that.
8:42
So that was kind of cool.
8:44
And he said a bunch of things that were I would I would say life advice or money advice that I thought were interesting.
8:48
Do you want the money or the life one first? Money. All right, money one.
8:53
So I was like, what Tim, what are you doing?
8:56
You know, crypto prices are crashing. What are you doing?
8:57
Um, are you making any adjustments?
8:59
Do you look at the prices?
9:02
He's a crypto guy by the way.
9:04
Yeah, he said he bought crypto bought Bitcoin for the first time but like late 2012 and been accumulating kind of since.
9:10
He's like, it's a, you know, a significant thing for me, not like, you know, not everything, but it's significant.
9:14
And he said last year Q3 2021 he sold enough to cover like feel like he kind of covered his cost basis and banked a little bit of a win and then the rest he's just like, you know, holding to to to see how it all plays out.
9:27
And he was like, he said a couple interesting things.
9:29
He goes, I've made most of my money mistakes selling early, selling too early.
9:35
And he gave a bunch of examples.
9:37
He goes, you know, I owned I was one of the first advisor in Shopify super early on.
9:42
And I owned pre-IPO shares of Twitter and Facebook.
9:47
And as soon as they went public, uh you know, you know, yeah, so they they grow, they go public, and you know, in that first year they all hit like turbulent times and they you know, stock went way down.
9:57
He's like, I just as soon as the lockup was over, I just sold because stock's going down.
10:02
I was kind of a novice in public markets.
10:04
Frankly, still a bit of a novice in public markets.
10:06
I didn't know what to do, so I just sold. All of it? Yeah, all of it.
10:10
I think I He didn't specify that, but it He made it sound like all of it.
10:13
And he's like, "Those are massive financial mistakes."
10:16
You know, like selling Facebook, Shopify, and Twitter like right when they went public, um you know, 6 months after is when the lockup ends, is you know, he's like, "These are, you know, hideous financial mistakes that I've made."
10:30
He's like, "And it wasn't because I He's like, there's He's like, "You know, he's like, so I learned what When do you sell?"
10:36
So he goes, "I now go into any I I only buy if I know what conditions I would sell under."
10:42
He's like, "So most people have no exit plan.
10:44
They don't know when they would sell, how long they plan to hold, or what would cause them to sell."
10:47
He's like, "I now have a plan when I go in.
10:48
I know what would trigger me to sell.
10:50
So if I'm going to deviate from that plan, I better have a really strong reason."
10:55
Because the second thing is, "I don't sell now because, you know, the price went down.
10:58
I sell if something I believed before, I now have new information that tells me that's not true any more or I'm surprised about it."
11:06
He's like, "So for crypto, for example, he's like, I haven't sold, but I haven't sold not because I'm like, you know, more confident than ever."
11:12
He goes, "Frankly, I just haven't done the homework to go figure out were any of my initial assumptions wrong?
11:17
I haven't done that homework yet."
11:18
And he's like, "That's what I'll do.
11:20
I'll go talk to my smart friends, the ones who helped me get into this, and I'll say, you know, is there anything that you used to believe that you no longer believe about crypto or anything that any red flags that have come up for you that didn't go in line with your initial hypotheses?
11:32
I want to hear those before I make a decision on what I want to do.
11:36
I thought that was extremely reasonable and I thought that the the sort of selling early mistake is something that, you know, I I I've shared on the pod too.
11:43
You know, like I sold Tesla early when there was like, you know, I basically lost $5 million.
11:49
I lost out on $5 million had I held.
11:52
But I, you know, there was a bunch of bad news and I didn't know what to do and so then I just sold, right?
11:56
And And by the way, for the Shopify example, it looks like 6 months after it was around $2. 50 a share.
12:00
At its peak at its peak peak, it was $150.
12:07
So, that's something like you know, a million dollars of shares that he had, which he definitely could have had, would have been like $50 million, uh which is like very substantial.
12:17
And so he, you know, he was pointing out, you know, my mistakes in investing haven't been buying the wrong thing.
12:20
The biggest mistakes have been selling the right thing too early.
12:24
And you know, that I think that might be, you know, he's like, you know, I don't know if this applies to everybody, but he's like, for me that has been, you know, some of my largest kind of missteps.
12:34
Um okay, so then the second thing he was talking about uh this project that he's doing, this NFT project.
12:38
And I was like, so this is kind of crazy.
12:40
I don't know if you know what he Do you know what he's doing? Do you know what it is?
12:43
So, I know that he's always been interested in non-fiction writing.
12:44
Or sorry, fiction writing.
12:46
Like he's always wanted to write like stories and for some reason he hasn't until now.
12:49
And I think this is like his first fictional story or book or series of podcasts and it comes with an NFT, right? Yeah, exactly.
12:59
So, he's written, I think, five or six best-selling business books, non-fiction business books, uh business life hack type books.
13:08
And if he was going to do just another one of those, it would have been like, okay, cool.
13:11
Like, you know, going back to the, you know, what butter is your bread, right? That's That makes sense.
13:15
But instead, he's like, I'm going to build like a world like Game of Thrones.
13:20
He's like, I'm going to build a whole thing around like this.
13:21
Like, I'm going to It's an entire fantasy world.
13:26
All the characters are roosters. Okay. There's eight houses.
13:29
They compete in the great games.
13:31
And they do this like, you know, then you know, there's a war and there's different classes and there's blah blah all the all the things like if you create like a a sort of a giant fantasy like you know, Tolkien or or George R. R. Martin style thing.
13:43
And along with it there's like basically an NFT which you can buy that basically is not like is is literally just like you're buying a piece of art and you're buying a ticket into the entertainment of like watching him build this world out. It's a book? Like one book? It It's not a book.
13:59
It's like I think it's just like long He's like I've written 10,000 words but uh I don't think he's going to release it like a book.
14:05
I think he's going to release it in some other way like essays or chapters or podcasts and like other He's playing with different formats.
14:10
I don't think he knows exactly how he wants it to come out yet.
14:12
So, anyways, pretty interesting.
14:14
I was like, "Dude, so why are you doing this?"
14:15
He's like, "Well," he said a couple nuggets.
14:18
He goes, "You know, I'm having the most fun when I'm creating something.
14:23
And that's what gets me into flow state.
14:25
And so he's like, "So, I knew I wanted to create something and I wanted to if I just did another nonfiction book, I don't feel like I would have that magical feeling of being challenged and satisfied at the same time." Yeah.
14:39
Um and so he go he goes he he goes I talked to the guy from who did Steven Pressfield who I think wrote uh The War of Art. Yeah.
14:47
Um and he goes, he goes, "You know, um he has this concept of a muse which is like the project you're working on or like you know, the the thing that you're you're you're playing with."
14:56
And he goes, "You're doing your muse a disservice if you don't go big."
15:02
And uh he goes, "So, I decided like if I'm going to do this, I'm going to go big."
15:06
And he goes like, "Big is not um I have to write like an 8,000-word book or whatever like a 8,000-page book.
15:10
Like that's big doesn't mean like literal volume.
15:14
Big means I have to go to a point where I'm uncomfortable with this and my friends are calling me and they're saying, 'Tim, are you okay? Are you sure?
15:21
Is this what you want to do?
15:23
And he's like, that's how I know that I've like pushed it into a a realm that's like something interesting is going to happen. how I feel with this.
15:31
What's up with this podcast? What do you mean?
15:33
No, with him coming up with a non-fiction thing called or a fiction thing called Cockpunch.
15:37
Yeah, you want to call him and be like Yeah.
15:39
I'm like, you know, you have nothing to lose here because like, you know, you're set, you're fine, and if this is creative, that's cool, but like it's kind of weird.
15:45
What are you What What are you doing, man? Like Are you okay? Yeah, exactly.
15:50
And he goes, that's when I'm going to basically do the things that are off the beaten path.
15:53
Something that I haven't done before, something that is new and interesting and novel.
15:59
And so that's how he was talking about this thing.
16:00
And I was like, okay, I love that advice.
16:01
Um the second thing he said that it was along those lines, he goes um He goes I go I go what if we're just sitting here like, you know, a year from now, just got a beer, we're like, dude, what happened with Cockpunch, man?
16:12
That story was That was going to be that project was crazy.
16:14
Like, where did it all go wrong?
16:16
Like, if it all if it all goes wrong, what do you think your answer will be?
16:19
If we're we're looking back at it a year from now and it's just like the the yeah, that went that went totally wrong. What is the core risk?
16:24
He goes I've thought about this a lot. It's a good question.
16:29
He goes if I end up managing the project instead of creating it I think that will have all gone wrong.
16:35
He goes, because A, he goes He goes anything great comes from you know, staying at it.
16:42
He goes, so I have to do the things that give me energy because without the energy, there is no endurance.
16:49
And that like really resonated with me.
16:51
He was like, you know, with no energy, there is no endurance.
16:52
He goes, so I got to spend my time on the things that give me energy.
16:55
For me, that's drawing and that's creative writing.
16:57
So I have to do those parts.
16:59
That's also the parts that will Those are my superpowers. That's what I'm good at.
17:02
And I'm good at I'm better at that than other people.
17:05
like he did the animation.
17:07
was like illustrations and comics.
17:07
Like, that's how he made comics and stuff like that.
17:10
Yeah, he's like a sketch artist.
17:11
And I think that's what he originally wanted to do was be a cartoonist and stuff like that.
17:14
What a fascinating person.
17:15
And so he was like, you know, those are my superpowers.
17:16
I got to spend the time on that.
17:18
If I just end up spending time managing this thing and it feels like a lot of administrative work, I know that for me, that gives me no energy, therefore no endurance, therefore I won't stay stay with it, therefore the great things won't happen.
17:28
And I thought the self-awareness was really key.
17:29
And this is something that I know as I think about my next projects, these are the types of like you need to have like these strong ass pillars or tenants of like, this is what it this is what I am doing and this is what I'm not doing.
17:42
And if I do this, I think it'll work and if I don't do this, I know that it I will have trouble.
17:45
And I think that self-awareness is pretty baller. Dude, that's awesome.
17:49
He's he's always been a pretty wise person.
17:50
Even like, you know, I think he wrote Four Hour Work Week when he was maybe a little bit younger than you and I.
17:56
Like at he might have been only 30 when he wrote it.
17:58
And he always was pretty wise, man.
18:00
He he's he's he's always had like interesting insight and that's a really good insight about the energy and the endurance thing.
18:07
He had another one that goes, he goes, I go, "So, um I was on the topic of failure."
18:11
He goes, he goes, "I should first say that I kind of rigged the deck in my favor."
18:18
And I was like, "What do you mean?"
18:18
And he goes, "You know, I um I go into a project thinking, how do I win even if this fails?
18:24
How do I succeed even if this fails?"
18:26
And so he goes, "I think about it in terms of, sure there's the like, you know, um do a lot of people read this thing and, you know, does this become popular or does it become financially successful?
18:38
Sure, those are things, but like he's like, "I want to win even if those hard things don't happen."
18:43
So he goes, "I will only pick projects if I know that the act of doing it, the creative process of doing it is going to be awesome.
18:51
If the people I'm going to meet along the way doing this are going to be awesome.
18:54
And if the skills that I'm going to develop doing this are going to make me more awesome."
18:58
And so he goes, "If I do those three things, if I know that the skills, the knowledge and the network that I acquire along the way is going to make it worth it for me, then I don't have to stress about the the popularity, of income cuz I'm going to win in either case.
19:11
I'm going to win if if just those things happen, or I'm going to win even bigger if the other happens.
19:17
So, he goes, I pick projects where I can stack the deck in my favor, and that's what I've done here.
19:21
And is this still the life or the money advice or the life one?
19:25
Now we're in the life advice, yeah. Dude, he's good, man.
19:26
He's a really interesting guy. I What's he doing now?
19:30
So, he just like Is he Is he treating that as like That's been his like 40-hour work week?
19:33
Like that's been his job job for the Yeah, he's been He's just going ham on this for like, you know, close to a year now, and he's like, "I dude, I just put so many so many hours into this." He's like, yeah.
19:44
And which is funny, cuz people are criticizing like, "Oh, dude, you're doing an NFT.
19:48
You're just like another celebrity doing an NFT. It's just a cash grab."
19:50
And I like I told him this on the call.
19:53
I was like, "Dude, that's crazy to me."
19:54
First of all, he's donating 100% of the proceeds to like his charity that does like the research on like psychedelics and stuff like that to treat PTSD.
20:01
So, he's So, all the primary sales are going there, right?
20:05
So, that's like, you know, most you know, that's a huge chunk of the financial reason you would do it.
20:08
Uh the second thing is um if you just count like the number of hours it takes to do this world-building type of thing, like he's got to be working for minimum wage basically just in terms of the number of hours it takes to create something like this.
20:20
And third, if he was going to do a cash grab NFT, he would have done it last year.
20:24
He wouldn't be launching it now, and he wouldn't be giving away the money to charity, and he would be like doing it in a way that's like not doesn't require him to like build out this whole fictional world.
20:34
Like he would just be like, "Hey, here's a picture.
20:37
Hey, meet this You know, this gives you 5 minutes to talk to Tim Ferriss, right?"
20:40
That's what he would do is just like a cash grab if you wanted to do it.
20:43
And so, I thought that was like, you know, one of the funny criticisms.
20:46
Tim has like a really interesting celebrity.
20:47
Ryan Holiday has this, too.
20:49
And I know I've known a few guys that that have had this, where there's people I look up to, and then there's people who the people I look up to look up to.
20:58
So, like Ryan and Tim, they both get like all these football coaches, all these like politicians, these rich billionaire types, all these interesting like powerful traditionally powerful people will reach out to them and like hey sensei, show me the way.
21:12
What can I do about this? What should I do next?
21:16
And I have always found that type of celebrity to be incredibly fascinating.
21:19
And so like I mean he'll Tim will like not in a bad way but he'll like name drop all these stories like on the pod.
21:26
He'll be like yeah, you know, I was with Ed Norton recently and he was telling me like this this and this and I was trying to help him like figure out what to do.
21:32
You know, like he like tells these stories or he's like when I was with Jamie me Fox, he was asking me about this.
21:37
And I've always found that celebrity to be so fascinating.
21:39
I've always wondered what his life is like.
21:42
I also I asked him another question.
21:42
I I go, you know, you're one of the most like prolific interviewers.
21:47
You've done I don't know 600 episodes of of interviews on your podcast.
21:50
One of the top I don't know five or 10 podcasts in the world.
21:54
And I say I go, you know, if you had a chance to sit down with Sam Bankman-Fried and interview him.
22:01
You got a couple hours with him.
22:02
How would you approach it?
22:04
And I thought his answer was pretty interesting.
22:06
So he goes He goes it's a tricky one because I don't know going in how much of what he's going to tell me is the truth or a lie.
22:16
So he goes, but I'll tell you how I would approach it given that that's the problem.
22:20
And he goes, first I would my goal initially is just to get him off of his party lines.
22:25
Get him off of his PR script.
22:27
And so he's like I would go and I would try to talk to as many of his old friends and co-workers as I can.
22:33
And ask them, yo, if I if you you know, you must be surprised at what's happened here.
22:36
If you could ask Sam one question just genuinely heart-to-heart, what would you want to know the answer to that I can maybe ask on your behalf?
22:44
And then he's like I'd get those.
22:44
He's like then in the interview I would use their name to kind of soften soften him up a little bit.
22:48
Say I talked to James who you know was your college roommate and knew you before any of this stuff, right?
22:53
When you were just a guy blah blah blah.
22:55
And you know, he said he would want to know this.
22:57
Like what would you say to James?
22:58
Cuz it's like saying to James versus saying to Tim I think is like interesting.
23:02
So, I thought that was an interesting tactic.
23:03
He goes, "That gives me good research, but also maybe can get him to just like deviate from the same repetitive loop of answers he's going to give to everybody else."
23:12
He goes, "The second thing is I He goes, "I'd be pretty direct.
23:15
I go, 'What percent of what you say to You know, before we do this, what percent should I assume is true of the things that you're going to tell me? Is it a hundred?
23:24
Is it less than a hundred?
23:26
And I you know, if it's less than a hundred, I understand that. But why?
23:29
And he goes, "Another version of that would be, 'You're doing a lot of media.
23:32
Um what do you What do your lawyers think of what you're doing?'"
23:37
He's like, "Cuz it might make him laugh and get him to kind of talk about his motivations for why he's even doing an interview like this."
23:43
Uh cuz it seems kind of counterintuitive to be doing all the stuff you know a lawyer would tell you to tell go go and do the stuff.
23:50
He goes, "The last thing."
23:51
He goes, he goes, "You know, I would um He goes, I would He goes, "I just want to know the guy's fundamental beliefs because it seems like he's not stupid.
24:01
He's got good hardware upstairs.
24:01
And that's why I want to know what his beliefs are.
24:04
Um you know, am I just supposed to assume that he's just a bad person, he was a criminally-minded person, and for a long time he planned to do this criminal behavior?
24:12
Or was he Did he have the right intentions and then somewhere along the way made a bad ethical decision under some stress or pressure and that led him down a path of making the wrong decisions, you know, like And he's like, "That's what I'd be trying to figure out.
24:25
And you know, I would try to um to understand, you know, his uh you know, his thinking around that."
24:31
And tell him, "That's what I want to know.
24:32
I want to understand that."
24:34
I thought that was pretty cool.
24:36
So, I'll I'll wrap up with one last story about Tim.
24:38
So, in this what you're saying kind of like he'll he'll say these things sometimes in interviews as if he's coming off the cuff or that he's like just thinking out loud.
24:50
I have never met someone like him who prepares for everything.
24:53
He prepares for every single thing.
24:59
And this is quite different than you and I.
25:01
You and I are totally cool improvising.
25:03
And you would think someone like him who's interviewed all these people or has talked publicly for so many hours that they can improvise.
25:09
Maybe he can, but for my experience, he is not someone who improvises.
25:12
And he everything he says, the words are chosen very, very specifically.
25:17
And so you like he'll say this line like, "Oh, I don't play a doctor on TV and I don't pretend to do that."
25:23
Like he'll say that line and like that's just like he must have heard that somewhere.
25:26
He's like, "Okay, that's actually a good line to get That's a good brand message to Disarm.
25:31
Yeah, I'm going to keep saying that.
25:31
And so another thing that he'll do is like one time I interviewed him for The Hustle and I interviewed him on the phone and then I transcribed it.
25:39
And there was a couple instances where I made an error, so he was right to yell at me.
25:42
And he didn't yell at me, but he was just like, "No, this is That's not what I said."
25:47
And we're talking about like I I would write the word hadn't instead of had not.
25:51
He said had not and I wrote hadn't, so I was in fact wrong.
25:53
And he like very specifically called that out.
25:56
And he did that so much where he's like, "No, there shouldn't be a comma here.
26:00
There should be a period and then a new sentence."
26:01
Or like these like incredibly, incredibly if he did that, then he's going to be pretty pissed at this interview cuz I definitely like Dude.
26:11
you know, move stuff around to help him.
26:13
No, he he does not like that. And I don't blame him.
26:15
He is so specific about his brand.
26:17
And in fact, if you go and see the like for example, there's this conference called 212 that I went to and Tim went and he gave a testimonial for it.
26:25
And if you read the testimonial, it's very specific where in his head he's like, "What I can't endorse anything like but I What I can't say is you know, Adam hosted a great conference. They're wonderful.
26:35
He's he's a wonderful person."
26:38
Or like like you know, like some people will ask us you and I like I've asked you to do a testimonial for something and you're like, "Just write whatever." Uh no, not him.
26:45
Everything about his brand, like what you see out in public and what he writes, he is very specific and it's all incredibly well thought out.
26:55
So, like we almost had him speak at a conference or something like that and we just like went through we just start chatting about it and he was like wanting to know exactly who all was there and I'm like, "What do you mean, dude?
27:04
Why does it matter to you?
27:04
Just like [ __ ] wing it. Just talk."
27:05
And then like that's not his style at all.
27:08
Like it it was all incredibly precise, well thought out, it's all everything had a purpose and I've I've always found that to be very admirable about him because I remember being pissed off when he he didn't yell at me, but like he kind of like had a tone where he's like, "No, that's not what I said. This is what I said."
27:23
And I remember being upset about that and then I was like, "No, man. He's right.
27:27
He's he he's has a brain and he's sticking to it."
27:29
And I always thought that was really interesting. Yeah. Well, all right. Tam, I'm sorry.
27:32
I did definitely chop and chop up the interview to to try to make it shorter and better.
27:38
But like I said I was like I was like I was like It's it's already live. Too late.
27:43
Tell me if he replies to you.
27:43
That's going to be the follow-up. I bet you he will.
27:45
He he what He's very specific about it and I and I appreciate that. You're you're right.
27:50
I had told him I was like um He's like He's like, "Yeah, I'll do it.
27:54
You know, just send me the questions in advance so I want to make sure I can prepare and do do the best job I can."
27:58
And I was like, "Well, I don't know the questions I'm going to ask you. So, okay.
28:01
I guess I'll do the work now."
28:01
And so I did it and then he's like, "Okay, cool.
28:05
For this question I think we should do this and this and this."
28:06
And I was like, "Wow, this is like way more in-depth than anybody."
28:09
And then even during the thing he's like He's like I did an audio video test earlier. Blah blah blah. It should be good.
28:16
Cuz he's like, you know, whatever in some foreign country right now and he's like, you know, I um And then on some of the answers he's like, "Okay, stop. Can we Can I redo that?
28:26
I think I was not being clear there."
28:27
And then he would like, "Do it again."
28:28
And I was like, "Wow, we're so different."
28:30
But I get why being the way that you are leads you to have the type of brand and and success that you have.
28:38
Um I am so different than that.
28:41
I am like, you know, complete I'm basically like the equivalent of a food fight and he's like a Michelin star restaurant. Exactly, dude.
28:48
You're like so fascinating.
28:52
and he's like, you know, got that perfect plate.
28:55
Dude, I remember we were with our dogs like walking and I go, "Oh, that's a cool dog leash."
28:57
And like or like cool dog collar or something and he and I was like expecting him to be like, "Oh yeah, got it on Amazon. It's pretty great."
29:04
He was like, "Oh, this thing?
29:05
You see, this comes from like this rare like African horse hair."
29:10
And like he had like some in-depth story about it and that was my And then I noticed every time something like we had these conversations, everything about his life, it felt very purposeful, high intent. Intentional, yeah.
29:24
Yeah, I thought that was fascinating. Yeah, that's cool.
29:28
It really highlights like It's like you see a 12 out of 10 at being very intentional and then you're like, "Oh wow, I thought I might have been an eight or a nine. Actually, I'm a four." Totally. He's very specific.
29:43
Our software's the worst.
29:45
Have you heard of HubSpot?
29:46
See, most CRMs are a cobbled-together mess, but HubSpot is easy to adopt and actually looks gorgeous.
29:52
I think I love our new CRM. Our software's the best. HubSpot, grow better.
29:58
All right, you want to do another one here?
30:00
Yeah, let's do some other topics.
30:00
Okay, so uh where do you want to shift to? Maybe some ideas?
30:06
What's is Spotify interesting? Or real estate insights.
30:09
That's I'm interested in that.
30:10
You said maybe, but let me give you the real estate thing real quick.
30:13
So I talked to somebody, I can't say their name, but uh I talked to your friend who has had who has built, I would say, in the last seven years, I think it is, yeah, seven years, they've built a real estate portfolio owning about a billion dollars of real estate assets where with 40% debt.
30:32
Um so 60% is equity, so about 600 million of of equity in these properties.
30:39
And they started seven years ago um from zero and had zero ability to like zero network, zero ability to borrow, only like skills.
30:49
They knew they thought they knew what they were doing and they were able to build this up.
30:52
Okay, so I was talking to him and I was like I was like you'd and he does retail in a specific he does retail real estate.
30:57
So basically or I guess in their world they would call it commercial real estate but what I mean is like retail stores.
31:03
So he'll buy a shopping center and the shopping center will have a um you know, a Hobby Lobby and um you know, a Starbucks and a whatever and there's like you know, six spots and he'll basically own that center and then he'll he'll get it leased up, buy it, he'll build on it he'll lease it up and then he'll either hold it or or sell it after that.
31:26
And he's basically compounded his money I think about I I was doing the calculations afterwards.
31:33
Um he's compounded his money about like 60% a year for like 7 years something like that even maybe even a little bit more.
31:38
Um and so I think 60% was the minimum that I calculated it was was possible for where where he was at.
31:45
I think it's it's it's a little bit a little bit north of that.
31:49
And I was like, dude, I was like in my I was like first of all, this is crazy. Congratulations.
31:53
Second of all my world view is that like dude, shopping centers like is this still a thing?
31:59
Like I I aren't you is this not dying?
32:02
Like in my world in the tech world we're just like everything's going online, everything's e-commerce, you know, you're going you're swimming against the the current.
32:11
And I go, am I just wrong about that or what's going on?
32:14
How do I how do I do this?
32:15
Lobby folks are always going to need a lobby to hobby, bro.
32:17
Like they're they're they're they're they're going in real life.
32:20
Like So so that's what he said. He goes, you're right.
32:24
He goes, but there are some specific trends, some specific categories that are going completely anti-trend and expanding. Depot probably.
32:34
Cuz I go I go, how does it work?
32:34
He goes I go, what's your edge?
32:36
Like what are you doing differently than anybody else?
32:39
Cuz you're getting a dramatically better result than anybody else I know in real estate."
32:42
And he goes, "Well, I'll get a call from, you know, the owner of, uh, you know, whatever, Dollar General or something like that.
32:48
And they'll say, 'Hey, we're looking to expand the owner, like, like an executive, like someone an executive there, you mean?
32:55
Could be the CEO, could be the head of of real estate, whoever.
32:57
Somebody Somebody at the top of these companies.
33:00
And they'll say, 'Look, we're trying to get into Lexington, Kentucky.
33:03
Um, you know, we want to be in that geo and we or we want more stores in that geo.
33:08
Uh, can you make this happen?'
33:08
And I'm like, and he's like, 'So then I'm going to make it happen.'
33:12
I go, "No, no, no, no, slow down, slow down."
33:13
I go, "So, what Why do they call you?"
33:15
He's like, "Well, they've done business with me."
33:17
I'm like, "Okay, great, but like, why aren't they just calling a broker?
33:19
Like, or somebody in Lexington?"
33:20
And he's like, he's like he just started laughing.
33:23
He's like, uh, he's like, you know, I was or or even specific more specifically, I'm like, "So, then you have to find the right location."
33:30
He goes, "No, sometimes they'll just tell me, 'We want to be in this location.'"
33:33
I was like, "Then why don't they just contact the guy from there? Like, just do the deal."
33:36
And he's like, I'm like, "They have real These companies have real estate teams." He's like, "Oh."
33:41
He's like, "Yeah, they do."
33:41
He's like, "But they He's like, three things."
33:42
He goes, "Number one, most of the owners of these places are like a pain in the ass for them to deal with."
33:49
He goes, "They know I'm easy to do business with. Why?
33:51
Most owners don't want to invest in their properties.
33:53
They won't do any tenant improvements.
33:54
I will invest money to build out the stores the way they want.
33:58
Um, and because I've been willing to do that, they want they would prefer to work with me over any other developer or like the average developer because I have shown that I can build fast and I will invest my own dollars into building it. Okay, second thing.
34:12
And I go, "But doesn't that guy just think like, 'Man, if I just did this?'"
34:15
He goes, "Yeah, but it's speculation."
34:16
He goes, "I know because I have these relationships, I know they'll come through.
34:19
That owner would have to like, on spec invest in in maybe improving some part of their property in order to make it more inhabitable. I'll just do it."
34:27
And And by the way, so he gets the Hobby Lobby like interest, then he can go get a loan and tell the bank, "Hey, I got interest uh in this.
34:32
Therefore you Not even that.
34:35
He'll He'll get the interest.
34:36
Then he'll go tie up the property. He'll commit to buy it.
34:38
But he doesn't have to have the money right away.
34:41
He has 90 days or whatever.
34:41
He's got to like close the thing in 90 days, 60 days, whatever it is.
34:46
And in that time, he then goes and gets Hobby Lobby to sign the lease.
34:48
Then he goes to the financiers.
34:50
He says, "Here's the Here's a property with a signed 10-year lease from a you know, from a highly reputable client.
34:58
Can I now get financing?" business ever. Yeah, exactly.
35:02
And they're like, "Oh, Hobby Lobby is not going out of business anytime soon.
35:04
You have a 10-year tenant.
35:04
Yeah, this is an easy This is all easy."
35:08
So then he was like He's like I was like, "Okay, so okay, I kind of buy that the mom-and-pop owner of these like, you know, they own like one or two shopping centers, three shopping centers.
35:14
They're not like they're more scared than they are more fearful than they are greedy.
35:19
They're not investing in it.
35:19
Okay, I buy that some people might fall into that. What else?
35:22
What are your other edges?"
35:23
He goes, "I don't die by paralysis by analysis."
35:26
He goes, "These guys will something on page seven of the lease will get them all tied up."
35:31
And he goes, "They'll just get like oh, some covenant they're really worried about."
35:36
He goes, "I have like basically like a standardized deal with these guys.
35:38
My leases are like clean and simple.
35:40
And like, you know, I'm willing to bear some risk.
35:44
These are not like the most ironclad, bulletproof, every every inch of every part of my body is covered and can't be exposed."
35:50
He's like, "You know, I just don't die by paralysis by analysis.
35:53
Like these guys will just die in the deal-making process of the lease cuz they get worried about stuff that really doesn't matter.
35:58
I've been doing this for long enough that I understand, look, if things go wrong, I have a plan B, a plan C, plan D.
36:02
I don't have to make plan A this completely fully insured thing."
36:07
Okay, that's interesting. Tell me more.
36:09
And he goes, he goes, "The other thing is that um uh they will have like um uh he gave me some other deal-making points, but I'm going to leave those out cuz some of those are, you know, maybe a little like, I don't know, personal or secret pri- secretive, I guess.
36:23
But I go, "Okay, what about these tenants?"
36:25
I go, "Who are these pure Who's trying to expand?
36:27
I thought the whole retail landscape is like shrinking and collapsing and Amazon's killing everybody.
36:32
He goes, yes, but there are certain categories.
36:35
So, he goes, anything DIY.
36:35
So, Hobby Lobby is an is an example of this.
36:38
DIY, people like to go in, they like to see the stuff, they like to have the stuff, and they need a bunch of inventory in a big space.
36:45
So, they're willing to rent these big stores.
36:47
He goes, another one, anything that caters to the black and Latino community.
36:50
He goes, for some reason, those groups are not buying online as much as, you know, white white or Indians or other other races.
36:57
He goes, because they're not buying online, their stores are still thriving.
37:01
And he goes, and I asked them, you know, like, why do you think uh it'll be like um Burlington Coat Factory. Got it. Or uh things like that.
37:08
And I'm like He's like, for Burlington Coat Factory, he's like, a lot of these places, they're not just like, oh, I just need a shirt, let me go buy the shirt.
37:14
Okay, if you wanted to do that, Amazon might be more convenient or ordering online might be more convenient.
37:19
like I need a coat today.
37:20
lot of these communities, it's a hangout.
37:21
It's like, this is the one place we go when we leave the house.
37:23
We go for an outing and we go to this place.
37:26
And um he's like, so that is like a big piece of like it's like part of their lifestyle is to go to stores and hang out and you know, do the whole do the whole nine.
37:35
He's like, so those stores are all thriving.
37:39
He goes, the third one is anything that's like super low-end, so dollar store um style style things because they're actually cheaper than online and they don't have to have the shipping problems.
37:48
And so, people if if you want the lowest price, that's still the place to go.
37:51
Fourth is he goes, like your wife and my wife, HomeGoods and home improvement.
37:56
So, go to HomeGoods, it's like he goes, they're treasure hunt treasure hunt experiences. So, what's that like? A TJ Maxx or HomeGoods?
38:03
TJ Maxx, Ross, uh Marshalls, uh HomeGoods, uh things like that.
38:06
He goes, they go because there's a joy in finding an amazing deal.
38:11
And so, they they don't want the most efficient experience where they just go online and they just buy the thing and they're done.
38:16
There is this actually like the joy of the hunt.
38:19
So, they want to go to this big messy store and they want to find gems, and they want to do that.
38:22
And again, that's their outing, that's their fun, that's their hobby.
38:25
And so, the retail store still really matters.
38:27
And so, he gave me this like list of categories that were like still expanding, and I thought that was pretty interesting.
38:32
It's like some of the the nuance that you don't really pay attention to unless you're like in that field.
38:38
And so, I just appreciated kind of talking to somebody who super fascinating.
38:42
knows their stuff in that area.
38:43
How many people work at this person's company? Like less than a dozen?
38:47
No, it's probably like somewhere between 20 and 30, I would say overall.
38:52
Man, that seems like it seems too boring for me.
38:54
Like I I I think I would I for some reason I pick things that probably make less money, but are more double mean hit.
39:01
boring, but they do high deal volume.
39:01
He said he had done like 80 or 100 transactions this last year, which is just in That's a doing a a real estate deal every 3 days, basically, which is just an insane amount of volume.
39:12
He's like, "There's a reason.
39:13
That's not normal, but like the whole real estate world has shifted, so I needed to shift my portfolio um accordingly.
39:20
Like, what are my what are my generational holds?
39:25
What are my, you know, quick quick opportunistic buys?
39:26
And then, what are my B properties that I need to offload because interest rates are changing, and the real estate market's about to, you know, crash, so I need to do this.
39:34
He goes, "I remember He goes, "I remember in '08, I was the guy who was like, 'I'm going to do real estate.'
39:41
Like, cuz real estate had been good for like, you know, eight straight years.
39:44
He's like, "So, I was running into the burning tunnel, and people were just handing me properties.
39:48
I'm like, 'Wow, this is incredible.'
39:49
He goes, "Now I realize you want to be the guy on the way out.
39:53
Hand Hey, here you go, bud. Have fun.
39:55
Have fun with this property.
39:57
Yeah, it's All the papers are all the numbers are good cuz last 5 years have been fantastic.
40:00
Last 7 years have been fantastic.
40:02
But the next 7 years might not be the same."
40:04
And he's like, you know, "I know Now he's like, 'Now I've learned which which way to go in the tunnel when it's burning.'"
40:10
What skills or attributes does this person have you think that sets them apart? Extremely aggressive. They are. They're aggressive.
40:19
When you talk to them, you almost feel like at any given moment like uh It's like are we are we are we laughing or we fighting? What's happening here?
40:27
Like they're very friendly person. It's not that.
40:29
It's not nothing wrong with that.
40:30
But they are aggressively minded where it's like we play to win.
40:33
Uh like the way they raise their kids is to win.
40:37
It's like um Like their kids like you know, if they do something bad, they don't go to time out, they do 20 burpees.
40:43
And it's like you know Cuz that's like like standard.
40:46
It's like okay, before dinner, we're going to go run wind sprints and then like you know, that's just how we do things before dinner.
40:50
Um and like girls, boys, two-year-old, 10-year-old, doesn't matter.
40:54
Like whoever you are, this is how we how we roll.
40:58
Well, now your back's going to hurt.
40:58
You just got lawn lawn care duty. Yeah, I mean Exactly.
41:04
Like there's a there's just a play to win mentality. That's the first thing.
41:08
Second thing is giant giant chip on shoulder.
41:12
Massive insecurity, daddy didn't love me, uh daddy was mean to me, um people said I wasn't [ __ ] uh people said I would never be something.
41:20
Hold onto that, use that as fuel.
41:23
Um And that same thing that kind of like and you know, they'll say like yeah, that this stuff doesn't bother me anymore.
41:30
It's like yeah, but you've brought it up to me eight times in the last three years.
41:33
So like I think there's like you haven't let it go. That's for sure.
41:36
You know, I think you've used it to a very very productive end for sure, but that that chip on your shoulder is like you know, what do they say?
41:43
Chip on shoulder equals chip in pockets.
41:45
Uh chips in pockets, that's that's what's happening.
41:47
So Um that's the second trait.
41:49
Third is amazing at deal making.
41:52
Negotiation, deal making, gift of gab.
41:58
Um spends very little time in front of computer, spends a lot of time in front of people or on the phone.
42:01
Tons of time on the phone.
42:04
And like I feel like for our generation, like how much time do you Dude, I [ __ ] hate talking on the phone. I just click end.
42:10
talking to you know, potential business things on the phone.
42:12
Like I spend essentially zero.
42:14
And in fact if even if there's a business opportunity they're like, "Hey, I'd love to do a call."
42:17
Like I just tell them straight up like, "Hey, I hate doing calls.
42:20
But if you write it down like I'm happy to respond."
42:22
And then like I'll just send you a voice memo.
42:27
Yeah, like I'm not I'm not doing any of that. That's hilarious.
42:30
Um yeah, so this person spends a lot of time on the phone and they do that to gather tons of info.
42:35
And they'll just if I they're like driving a bunch they'll just dial.
42:39
Okay, I'm driving 4 hours to go see this property.
42:41
In that time I'm going to make 14 phone calls or whatever.
42:44
And I'm hey brother, what's going on? What you seeing?
42:46
Oh, what happened to that property you had out there? Oh, you having trouble?
42:48
Well, send me the numbers. Let me take a look.
42:52
Maybe I can help you out.
42:52
Blah blah blah, you know, like and they're just constantly surfacing opportunities or information.
42:57
Oh, that guy's doing having some trouble? Interesting.
42:59
Like oh, this person, you know, they're underwater there?
43:03
Oh, I know Hobby Lobby wants to be there.
43:05
So I'm going to you know, okay, good.
43:06
Let me let me make that happen.
43:08
And so they just find these these deals like that.
43:10
That's one of their tricks. Dude, I love it. Um very different.
43:14
Like honestly, pretty standard for the real estate world.
43:16
None of the things I said so far are like shocking to anybody that's in real estate.
43:22
But for us in the tech world, it's a very different play style.
43:23
It's totally different set of strengths you know, activities than what we do.
43:27
So for us it's like, "Ooh, that's cool. That's new." That's crazy to me.
43:31
Dude, by the way, my father is like that.
43:33
My he owns a business where when he spends his winters in Florida, he brings a phone that plugs into the wall and he brings a fax machine.
43:40
And it's just constantly calling like, "Hey, what you got? What what you hearing? What's good?"
43:45
And like the his company, you know, sells millions and millions of dollars worth of stuff and it's just with a [ __ ] phone, a fax machine, and mailing checks, and just constantly calling like, "Hey, what you got? What you hearing?"
43:58
It's like that's just how the business is.
43:59
It's crazy, man, and they kill it. Par here, talk to me. That's what they do.
44:05
They go what they go "What's good, brother? What's going on?"
44:08
Or he'll call people nephew. "What's up, nephew? What's good?"
44:14
You got to work in a barber shop if you're going to just call non-nephews nephew. people nephew?
44:18
You got to be black and in a barber shop.
44:20
I can't believe Well, your dad gets away with that. That's amazing. I kind of like that.
44:23
I'd like, "What's up, nephew?"
44:25
He just calls people nephew. What's up, young blood?
44:31
He just calls people nephew.
44:31
Um all right, well, you want to do one more?
44:35
Uh let me tell you about a space that I've been poking around in.
44:39
It's not something I'm going to do, but there's definitely opportunity.
44:41
You know, I poked the the beehive and I heard some buzzing.
44:43
I don't want to go near it, but like somebody who wants honey go get it.
44:49
That's a very good analogy.
44:51
together that analogy on the fly.
44:51
I didn't know I didn't know what the next word was going to be.
44:55
You just had words coming out of your mouth, not sure how the sentence is going to end it, and it totally found its place. Wonderful.
45:01
That was really satisfying. So, um So, so Only Fans.
45:07
Okay, so we've talked about Only Fans a bunch, but let me tell you the angle that I'm thinking about here.
45:12
So, By the way, I do not give a [ __ ] about Only Fans.
45:16
Everyone talks about Only Fans.
45:17
The only thing I care about is Bhad Bhabie. Do you know who that is? I think that's her name. Bhad Is that it? Bhad Bhabie.
45:25
What What did you just say? I thought it was Bhad.
45:27
I thought it was Bhad the Bhabie?
45:30
I think there's like an R and an H in the first word. Just an H. Just an H.
45:34
Wait, who's Wait, it's Bhad?
45:34
That's how you spell Bhad? Yeah. Barber shop stupid.
45:39
I feel like you I feel like you're up to speed on Bhad Bhabie. What's What's her name? Bhad Bhabie? What's her name? I don't know. Bhad Bhabie.
45:43
I just know her as the catch me outside girl from Maury but or Dr.
45:48
Phil or some [ __ ] Anyway, that's the only person I know and it's like change like races?
45:54
Wait, is she black now or white?
45:54
What is she supposed to be? and she's now black. Oh, well. Have you seen her?
46:00
Did you Google bad baby right?
46:07
Whatever she she she switch.
46:09
She's Jewish and her mom's Italian. She really?
46:13
and then Now she's being like criticized because she's like They people say it's like modern day blackface because she's like really like changed her look. Like when she was on Dr.
46:24
Phil she looked like a you know I don't know like a spoiled white girl or something like that.
46:28
And uh anyways whatever doesn't matter.
46:32
She kills it her name is she kills it.
46:33
She kills it and like apparently she bought like a $20 home $20 house.
46:40
Uh so whatever so So bad Barbie is Uh company crushes it.
46:45
So they do billions of dollars in revenue.
46:47
Uh the owner whose name is now public so we can talk about him Leo.
46:52
He's a fan of the pod friend of the house.
46:54
He um I think they he cleared or you know like the the company cleared 500 million in profits in 2020 or 2021 like just an insanely profitable insanely big business. Okay. And what is OnlyFans?
47:08
OnlyFans is basically like a storefront where anybody can sell pictures or videos.
47:13
So you're selling content.
47:18
And so you know I do it I do e-commerce I come from the Shopify world.
47:21
I know that in Shopify Shopify is your storefront that's your equivalent of OnlyFans.
47:26
But you use like this whole host of tools around it to make your store sell better to increase sales.
47:32
So you'll use Klaviyo to you know grab people's email addresses and then send them automated emails.
47:38
where you're going with this one.
47:40
You use you know this app to boost your you know to do upsells automatically right to cross-sell or upsell new products so that you increase the dollar value per customer.
47:49
So you use all these different things.
47:53
OnlyFans kind of has none of this stuff.
47:56
But it has the same and the same like, you know, like seriousness of any of these other big storefront / marketplace type of ideas.
48:04
And so I think there's a whole world of OnlyFans SaaS tools that can be built.
48:08
And there are also so like But do they have an ecosystem?
48:12
Like uh Uh you don't need you don't the they just use it on their own.
48:15
You don't have to like plug into OnlyFans.
48:16
You just like um it there's not like a platform you have to go be approved to to sell under to be an app like the way Shopify does.
48:23
You got to be in the Shopify app store.
48:26
But do they have like a So oh, so they don't have But there's no OnlyFans app store? No.
48:30
You just you just sign up and you just use products.
48:32
So for example, there are products that are like chatbots.
48:33
So what they do is somebody follows you or they subscribe uh either they're a free follower or maybe they're paying the $5 a month subscription.
48:41
But what you where you really make your money is what they call pay-per-view.
48:44
And so that's where you sell like, oh, I did a photoshoot uh whatever like, you know, I dressed up like Catwoman.
48:51
Pay nine $19 to unlock, right, that piece of content.
48:55
And so what these bots, these SaaS tools are doing is they basically are like, "Hey, we will go message all of your followers as if it's you being like, hey, did you see my Catwoman thing?
49:05
I think you're going to love it."
49:07
Follow up 24 hours later.
49:09
Um like picture three in the album was like just for you.
49:13
Wink face, whatever, right?
49:15
Like this is this is a bot. And what is this?
49:16
This is a sales rep that is going around for you doing sales and selling your content, selling your product.
49:22
And so the all the tools today are pretty rudimentary.
49:26
They are pretty um or they're just like they're just missing certain things from certain ecosystems.
49:30
And I think somebody could do what uh what Andrew Andrew Wilkinson did with WooCommerce or where he basically rolled up a set of plugins and tools.
49:40
I think that you could do that in the OnlyFans world.
49:43
Now, to do this, why am I not doing this?
49:46
Well, I don't want to deal with people on OnlyFans every day.
49:49
I don't want to be like selling this content every day.
49:52
It's not like What's it called like it's not my Ikigai. Ikigai, yeah.
49:58
What we were put on this earth to do. Yeah.
50:00
But we got a bunch of friends who are less, you know, uh Little little less uh Different standards about Yeah.
50:07
Different standards maybe we were not going to say lower or higher standards. We'll say more wide.
50:13
They have wider standards. Yeah.
50:15
They're not Left or right.
50:17
Yeah, it's it's not a you know, our bar is up here and else's bar is down here.
50:21
It's just different bars. It's a little wider. Yeah.
50:26
So, if you're one of these wide standard fellas out there I think there's a lot of opportunity.
50:31
If your moral compass is a little wobbly And there's a whole the whole ecosystem, right?
50:35
So, if you want to start an agency, OnlyFans agencies do really really well, right?
50:38
Because they take care of the back office, they take care of growth for for these OnlyFans creators.
50:42
Um I know two people personally that have built OnlyFans like just SEO optimized websites that are like search engine so it's like find a creator, discover a creator, search for a person. No way, who?
50:54
They're like metric sites and they've built them and they're either like cash flowing really really well like, you know, to the tune of like, you know, 100 grand a month of free cash flow or they sold them for like two three million.
51:04
Is one of them called Fans Metric?
51:07
Uh I don't want to say cuz I kind of already said some numbers.
51:08
So, um yeah, there are like Ben, we know two personally that that did this.
51:14
And so, metrics like in any ecosystem, same thing with Twitch it's like there was a metric site and the metric site got big.
51:19
Then there was Streamlabs and Streamlabs made it easy for somebody to like accept tips and donations and and they made like a alert system so that every time you got a tip or donation, you could automatically acknowledge that person which which leads to more tips.
51:31
And that Streamlabs became an indispensable tool for every Twitch creator.
51:36
What is the Streamlabs of OnlyFans?
51:39
Dude, that's so fascinating.
51:40
These are the There is so much opportunity to build SaaS tooling for these creators, to build agencies, to build, you know, a whole bunch of different opportunities around this ecosystem because most people aren't going to go there. Um, myself included.
51:54
And if you do go there, the tool it's like new and growing so fast that the pie is big, but it's not totally saturated the same way that Shopify feels quite saturated or, you know, tools for I iPhone developers or whatever seems pretty pretty saturated.
52:09
Do you follow um, have you ever seen that Tik Tok guy who goes up to people with fancy cars and he goes, "Hey, what do you do for a living?" Yeah, of course. Uh, what's his name?
52:17
Brandon Mac, I think, or something Mac. Uh, it's awesome.
52:21
And for some reason all of it feels like all of the ones lately have all been it's always hot girls and they like make jokes and then they they finally admit that they do only fans.
52:32
And OnlyFans is one of those ideas when when I heard about it like five years ago, I'm like, "Who the [ __ ] going to pay for that? Like just Google it.
52:37
Like you're you'll see the same thing." Just like Yeah.
52:41
Google that person's name followed by the word nude and you'll like find exactly what you want.
52:44
Like why would you pay $20 a month for this?
52:46
And obviously they proved me wrong.
52:48
And it's gotten to be such a huge thing that it seems like if I go to LA, do you see a hot girl in a fancy car?
52:56
Like just based off my me scrolling in bed at night, it's like, "Oh, they're they're definitely in only it's an OnlyFans model."
53:03
And that is like totally new and strange to me and that is what has made me feel like, "Oh, this is like going to be much actually much bigger.
53:11
It's it's it's significantly more mainstream than I ever thought."
53:13
Like no one would make like maybe now people will make jokes about Pornhub, but like every guy out there has like five or 10 porn sites that they go to and never in a million years would they say out loud what it is. Do you know what I mean?
53:27
And in fact, I'm not even going to say any words for the rest of this segment.
53:31
And now it's like OnlyFans is like a thing that like well, we we talk about because it's like so mainstream popular.
53:37
I find it to be incredibly fascinating.
53:39
Like even just in the last four years we started mentioning the word Pornhub because they would do funny skits like during the Super Bowl or they would like, you know, do fun It's like become a joke, but that has just happened in the last one good idea was just to do another OnlyFans.
53:54
And so, I forgot what it's called.
53:55
Fan- Fansly or Fans Only?
53:55
I think I think it's Fansly.
53:58
Fansly is just like Uh if you don't want to be on OnlyFans, come on Fansly.
54:03
And they're just like, "Well, we'll we'll be number two. It's fine.
54:06
We'll We'll make some different decisions like we allow whatever like you know, I don't know what their difference like cartoon creators or something like that like you know, I like you can be like a digital thing or whatever.
54:16
there's 7-minute abs and some Fansly's just going to be 6-minute abs.
54:18
It's like, "Yeah, it's the same thing.
54:19
We just We charge you only 9% instead of 10." Exactly.
54:23
And so, and then they're doing pretty pretty well.
54:25
Like they do they do they do fairly well and when and so, I think there there was just This was just one of those winning ideas.
54:31
It was one of those really big winning ideas.
54:33
I don't know if I told you this, by the way.
54:35
I had a buddy who was a VC who kind of quit his job and was going to raise like his own fund.
54:43
And then he was just like he identified I think 3 years ago. He goes, "OnlyFans." And I go, "What?"
54:48
And he goes, "OnlyFans is going to be massive."
54:53
And I go, "I think it's already pretty big."
54:54
At that time, it seemed pretty big for what it was.
54:55
I was like, "Dude, how popular can this get?
54:57
Like that's What's it worth now, you think?
54:59
What what could it sell for now? I don't even know. Uh I don't know.
55:03
I think very very conservatively 2 billion is my guess and aggressively closer to 10. I don't know.
55:11
You know, it's hard to say.
55:13
Like the the all the market like multiples just got changed, so it's hard hard to know.
55:17
Also, you know, there's not that many buyers for OnlyFans.
55:20
So, this is the problem with OnlyFans.
55:21
That's that's what I was want getting at, yeah.
55:22
really go public and there's not that many buyers, but it's super super profitable.
55:25
And so, my buddy was like, "It's going to be big.
55:27
I'm going to spend the next year trying to get ownership in OnlyFans." I go, "What do you mean?
55:33
Like just I guess you're you're going to reach out?"
55:34
He goes, "Yeah, but if it doesn't work like I'm going to find a way to get ownership in OnlyFans." I was like, "What?"
55:38
He's like, "Yeah, I'm just going to like I'm going to invest in it. I'm going to help them.
55:42
I'm going to do anything I can."
55:44
And he literally made that his mission for like a year. Did he get it? And he did it.
55:47
He was able to like they didn't let anybody invest, but this guy was able to go in and get advisor shares by helping them out in all these different ways, and he did it. He got a piece of it. And he was right.
55:57
He sent me He goes, "I remember when Twitter acquired us."
55:59
He goes, "OnlyFans will be bigger than Twitch."
56:00
I go, "Bigger than Twitch? No way."
56:03
And I was like, "Do you even I don't think you know."
56:05
Twitch is like one of the top six like most visited websites in America or something like that.
56:09
Like most most traffic or something.
56:11
And he goes, "Yeah, you'll see." And um and he was right.
56:16
It passed Twitch in terms of uh users and revenue in the last year.
56:22
And and I was like, "Wow, this guy really like called his shot of being super super bullish on OnlyFans."
56:26
He was He was absolutely correct.
56:29
Dude, what this Does he also own $600 million of real estate? This guy sounds awesome. No, different guy.
56:36
Uh yeah, I mean, I'm on board.
56:36
I think I think you know, WooCommerce is an interesting company.
56:40
WooCommerce is Andrew Wilkinson, you know, fan of the pod or friend of the pod.
56:44
He comes on all the time.
56:45
Their market cap is decimated right now.
56:47
It sucks right now, but their business is is pretty good.
56:51
Like it's a good business. Um it's way undervalued.
56:55
Um but it I think it's an interesting model, and yeah, I'm I'm on board with your aggressive friend who pushed his way into OnlyFans.
57:04
Do you Do you have a pre-game routine you do before this podcast?
57:08
I listen to music, and I review all my notes. That's about it.
57:13
Like a specific song or just like generally whatever whatever is on?
57:14
Do you usually What I I use Pandora, and then I um 1 hour before, so I have my schedule locked in.
57:21
So, for the people listening, we record for 1 hour, and so we're usually here at the top of the hour, and then we start.
57:26
And then 1 hour before that, it's my quiet time where I like review everything. Quiet time. Nice.
57:33
Well, like people are like messaging me and I'm like, "Hey, I can't talk to you right now. I'm preparing."
57:36
And so it's my time to like read notes and like I scan the news and I just want to know what's going on in the world.
57:42
Yeah, my daughter has that. That's great. Quiet time. I love it. What do you do?
57:46
invented this great thing cuz she's like, "Dude, my kids don't want to sleep and they just want to play."
57:50
And so she's like, "I got to turn like I she's like, "I don't even care if they're asleep.
57:55
I just want them to go to the room and just like not talk to me and just stay in the bed and like have fun."
58:00
So she created night time sister play time.
58:02
And so it's this like hilarious thing where they're like, "Oh, it's night time sister play time."
58:05
And they get to go run into their beds and like the two sisters can play together, but they have to be quiet cuz it's night time sister play time.
58:10
Nobody else is allowed in, which means don't bother mommy and daddy.
58:13
And I just thought what a hilarious rebrand of go in the room, shut the door and shut up.
58:18
And and so then I now whenever I'm doing something, like even work wise, like with my co-workers in like our e-com thing or whatever, I'll be like, "All right, it's night time sister play time."
58:28
Like that just means like Don't talk to me.
58:30
me with slack and don't talk to me.
58:30
I'm going to go do some work now. That's what I have.
58:35
Mommy and daddy got to go do things.
58:36
Dude, I just like I blame everything on the pod.
58:37
I'll be like, "Hey, can't. Preparing for the pod.
58:38
Can't don't talk to me, please."
58:40
Cuz everyone knows it's like a deadline.
58:42
Why, do you have a routine?
58:45
Um I got a well, I kind of have one, but I was making fun of myself this morning about it.
58:48
So my schedule's similar, I think, to you where now the the morning is all locked in where it's like I work out at a specific time.
58:56
And then at the end of the workout, I do my like 10 minutes of like mindset stuff that I do.
59:00
And and it's like it's really good.
59:00
It's everything's really healthy, but it's almost comically healthy where I was doing it today and I was like I was like, "What am I I was like, I'm that cliche tech guy that's like Things have changed.
59:13
I fasted, car yeah, I do my fasted cardio and then I I you know, seven and a half minutes in the sauna, then I you know, 11 minutes uninterrupted staring at the sun.
59:27
I have sex for 3 minutes three times a day.
59:28
It's study show that it's better.
59:31
I'm like doing all these like life optimization things that really I'm like I'm not a huge fan of those things cuz I feel like individually I like all of them, but together I'm like am I this delicate that I need to be like this uh you know like am I like I'm not a I'm not one of these like performance F1 cars or whatever that's like you know has to be like perfectly balanced everywhere.
59:51
I don't want to be so fragile.
59:54
You you are what you are what you didn't want to be now. I I think that's good. You look better.
59:58
You look I think you look significantly better than you did 3 years ago. That's for sure.
1:00:02
Yeah, but that could be that could be anything. Who knows?
1:00:04
Who knows what that could be.
1:00:06
Wait, let me tell you really quick.
1:00:07
I don't know if that's the morning routine cuz that's that's been more recent.
1:00:10
Speaking of morning routines, I got to tell I I was actually excited to tell you about this.
1:00:13
So, I'll tell you about it more when I'm done with it, but I met this guy on Twitter named Isaac French.
1:00:19
Do you know Isaac French?
1:00:21
He's that guy No, but it's a strong name.
1:00:24
strong name and that's why I got interested in him, frankly.
1:00:25
But he like he's that guy who has Not going to lie French, I'm here for the name.
1:00:36
Dude, Isaac French is his name. I met him on Twitter.
1:00:37
He's He's the guy who he bought a like a five-acre plot of land and like built cabins on it and turned it into an Airbnb that's making like millions of dollars in sales.
1:00:45
And but he like he's only 25 and he like architect and Oh, right.
1:00:50
We featured him on the pod a long time ago.
1:00:53
And he like called you and he told you all the numbers and all that.
1:00:56
Yeah, and he like architect the whole thing and he like is also an accountant so he did all the accounting and then he even like hired all the builders himself so he was the general contractor.
1:01:02
Just this interesting guy. I hung out with him. I met him on Twitter.
1:01:06
We actually I eventually met up with him.
1:01:07
He's really fascinating and he's part of this uh religion I guess is the right way to describe it called Homestead Heritage.
1:01:16
And basically if you're if you're an outsider it kind of looks like an like a Mennonite society, a little bit.
1:01:21
You know like what Mennonites are? No, what is that?
1:01:26
You ever seen Amish people? Yeah, sure.
1:01:29
So, this is like he would not say that they're the same and they aren't, but from an outside perspective, it all like looks a little similar.
1:01:35
And so way, those are the best descriptions where it's like they'd be kind of offended at this, but this is what it is.
1:01:42
Well, they're they're they're like objectively not the same, but like if you go I posted their website in the in the thing in the chat, you'll see guys wearing like those big white hats and like there's like a cow or like a horse like tilling the land and they're walking alongside it and like a lot of the women wear like the long dresses and like and so listen to the the description of their religion.
1:02:00
I It's a religion, but it's also a community, but listen.
1:02:03
Homestead Homestead Heritage is an agrarian and craft-based intentional Christian community.
1:02:09
Its literature stresses simplicity, sustainability, self-sufficiency, cooperation, service, and quality craftsmanship.
1:02:19
And so it's this like super I don't understand any of that. What does that mean?
1:02:22
What does any of that mean?
1:02:23
dude, it's it's hard to hard to understand if you don't know, but I spent time with them and he's taught me all this, but like basically somehow they they derive from like Chris from the Bible or something like it's their like
1:02:37
it's their duty or something to like create like high-quality craftsmanship like stuff and to like farm on the land and be sustainable and like there's you find God in like doing hard work and good work and being honest and creating stuff with your hands. That's like again
1:02:50
That's like again this like huge generalization from a massive outside perspective, but basically they like make their own food, so if you they own a 500 acres in Waco, Texas, which is about 2 hours ish from Austin and they like all of their food is like made on that land and like within the community they share food with one another and they're also pretty savvy at business.
1:03:14
Like I don't know how that kind of comes into this, but like they like he's an he's an accountant and so he's like, "Oh, I just love like being diligent with numbers."
1:03:21
And I'm like, "Oh my god, you're making me weak in the knees, my man."
1:03:24
Like tell me some So anyway, this weekend he's having like there it's like their festival.
1:03:30
They do like a festival where you can go in and buy like their arts and crafts.
1:03:33
And I'm driving 90 minutes to go there and like we're going to like sing Christmas songs and like buy arts and crafts.
1:03:39
And I'm incredibly excited to show you like or to report back about what it's like.
1:03:44
This community is so fascinating to me.
1:03:46
And so it's kind of interesting.
1:03:50
I'm imagining Do you watch The Office?
1:03:51
You know when um Dwight has his Airbnb? I'm imagining that, too. Yes. Schrute Farms.
1:03:57
Like that's what I'm imagining and you're going to go meet Mose.
1:04:01
Uh wow, that is that is incredible.
1:04:01
You know if you told me if you live this way, you can live till 200, I might do it then.
1:04:08
That That is how big the cost is to me of like, "Yo, go make go till your own food."
1:04:14
I don't even know what tilling is, to be honest with you.
1:04:17
I don't know if it's something you do with your hands or your feet, right?
1:04:19
Like what what what is tilling?
1:04:20
I think it's when like a cow like pulls along like a rake or something and it like moves the soil, then you can like plant [ __ ] in it. I don't know. But Yeah.
1:04:28
Dude, it I can I would bet my well, I bet you these people are pretty happy.
1:04:31
I think that there is like happiness in simpli- simplicity, but like who the hell knows? Everyone's unhappy.
1:04:36
But uh anyway, that's what I'm doing this weekend.
1:04:39
I'm going to report back.
1:04:42
Well, I like that it's kind of like Amish people that love money.
1:04:43
That's kind of already intriguing, right?
1:04:45
Like, you know, tell me more.
1:04:48
Yeah, which is basically like Have you ever walked around in Brooklyn and like I know Ben Levy who's here like lived in this part of or ish in this part of Brooklyn.
1:04:54
Have you ever been around like the Orthodox Jews?
1:04:57
No, but you've said they like run the place in Brooklyn, right? They run the place, man.
1:04:59
And they like you'll walk around in parts of Brooklyn and they'll be speaking Yiddish or like you go to certain stores and like everything's in Yiddish and you're like, "Am I in a different country?" This is wild.
1:05:08
And they They of like like you like help others in the community. It's really fascinating.
1:05:13
I love these uh I actually like those cultures.
1:05:15
I think it's a really interesting that those exist. All right.
1:05:19
Uh, I think that's it for today.
1:05:21
I'm going to save the rest for next episode.