0:00
What was reported, I think, was 30 to Conor and 100 to Floyd.
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0:02
Was that what was reported?
0:04
I think it was certainly higher for Conor that I know.
0:08
And and you know, so Floyd I would imagine it would be probably around there or higher just depending on what he did again.
0:14
Wow, you really think that 100 million was true?
0:16
Well, I mean I I Conor was you know, let's say just under 100, right?
0:21
When it's all said and done. So, and that's his part.
0:26
So, you know, he has a part we had a partner in UFC, so and I won't get into specifics, but yeah, so from Floyd's side, it's very reasonable to think that he could have pulled in 100 uh assuming that he he didn't take it all.
0:48
Audie, I I I see all these interviews with you.
0:50
I see you on the UFC like behind the scenes stuff and you're always wearing slick suits and you're dressed nice right now, but I just saw that you're drinking out of a Stanley mug.
0:59
Just to remind everyone at home that no matter how fancy someone is, we all have a little basicness inside of us.
1:05
You know, I always say like, you know, it's business much like sports.
1:10
You have to you know, you wear your uniform to play the game, right?
1:15
But we're all human at the end of the day.
1:16
We all have our casual clothes or you know, our our at home I've only seen one interview you and I've watched a bunch of interviews.
1:23
There's only one interview that you weren't wearing a suit.
1:26
You were wearing like Lululemon and a hat.
1:28
That was the only time I've seen you I have to switch it up now, man.
1:31
That's the you know, I have to switch it up, but it's a pleasure to meet you guys, man.
1:35
You should zig and zag the other way cuz I think a lot of people in the like agents, talent management, they all are all like very slick looking.
1:41
You should go the other way, right?
1:43
Like you should go athlete or as your main thing cuz you were an athlete, so I feel like you could pull that off and a lot of guys in that space will all look like suits to you know, in comparison.
1:55
I'm going I'm going to have to, man.
1:55
I'm going to have to to make people remember that I was actually one of them before I became a suit. Exactly.
2:00
There were Well, there there was some bum out there in San Francisco who was the first person to wear just like, you know, pajama bottoms and a t-shirt instead of a suit.
2:09
You you just That that's That that's your burden now, I guess. I was from Cali, too.
2:12
So, I got to start just rocking flip-flops, you know what I mean?
2:15
Just just all all good with the flip-flops and the shorts.
2:18
In Silicon Valley, uh it's like the opposite.
2:19
Like I remember when I first moved here, I went to like this nice kind of like club speak easy type thing, and everybody's waiting in line, and a guy walks up with a hoodie, and you know, it just looks completely disheveled, and the bouncers know like, all right, this guy's either homeless or a billionaire. We don't know which one.
2:34
We got to just err on the side of maybe this is like the next Mark Zuckerberg. Let him in.
2:37
Let him in first and go that way.
2:39
I I realized, oh the status game is different here. That's funny.
2:44
I heard a lot about that, yeah.
2:45
Certainly uh counterculture, if you will, to business.
2:48
The normal The New York The New York hustle is all suit and tie, whereas the San Francisco hustle is definitely flip-flops and and holes in your t-shirt, you know?
2:59
So, your introduction here is it's it's it's There's You've got a bunch of stuff.
3:02
So, so you've started Paradigm, which is uh and you just call it an agency, a sports agency, a sports management company.
3:08
I'd say it's a sports management and entertainment platform. That's what it is. Platform, all right.
3:13
With uh the most famous guy being Conor McGregor, but I also think you have Izzy.
3:16
Do you have one more champion on there? I thought you had three.
3:18
So, Izzy's a former client of ours, but definitely was an amazing client while he was with us.
3:22
Uh Michael Bisping, Michael Bisping.
3:24
Stephen Wonderboy Thompson, Michael Venom Page, Rico Verhoeven, uh past clients, obviously like Chris Lytle, who was actually one of my first clients.
3:35
That's how I got into the sport.
3:37
Um but yeah, very fortunate to work with some of the the greatest fighters of all time. So.
3:43
Yeah, so just a bunch of ballers.
3:43
But then you also co-founded Proper Twelve, which we're going to ask you all about it, but according to the headlines, it was like a $600 million exit.
3:49
So, you've had some maybe even more success there than the main thing.
3:54
What's cool is So, you run a talent kind of like let's say what part of your business is talent management talent agency and that's cool and there's a bunch of our audience that also owns agencies which I think is great.
4:04
But what I liked about you is that you have also kind of the venture side.
4:08
So, you're like creating brands and business ventures off the talent and we've talked about these kind of creator brands in the past. We had you know Mr.
4:17
Beast on here and he's got all these kind of like Feastables.
4:18
He's got all the you know, corporate brands underneath it.
4:22
We had Instagram star Dani Austin come on and she's got Divi like a hair care brand that's doing you know, way more money than she can get kind of just in in versus like influencer brand brand deals.
4:32
And so, what I like is that you got And Rob Dyrdek? Yeah, Rob Dyrdek.
4:36
You've got both and that's been a theme that we've kind of been been playing with.
4:40
So, I think we'll we'll try to hop around a little bit but I definitely Bless you. Bless you.
4:45
I mean, I'd be remiss if I didn't give you those two. Sorry. Oh, wow. What a gentleman. Look at that. Thank you.
4:53
Although John may edit it out and and then you know, it's not needed. in.
4:56
That's That's That's a character shower right there.
5:00
I'm like I'm talking if Sam's dying over there, I'm going to finish my point. I don't care. Yeah. Yeah. He's good. He'll come back. Yeah, exactly. No, no.
5:09
I appreciate the recognition.
5:10
Look, I mean, we we certainly I feel we're one of the early you know, platform/agencies if you will that really saw not only you know, an opportunity but more so wanted to do more for our clients, right?
5:24
And we wanted to disrupt our respective industry but also think far beyond that and not just think transactional.
5:31
And for me in mixed martial arts, it was an underserved market and we wanted to not only advocate for our clients but advocate for the sport, really push fighter fighter not only earnings uh, higher and higher which still have a long way to go, but they've come a long way from when we first started and back in 2009 in in the sport.
5:52
And we were very fortunate because we came in right before the first, um, you know, rights deal was was actually paid.
5:59
You know, the UFC was paying to be on Spike prior to the Fox deal.
6:02
And and as, you know, most people know, that's the main economic driver of any professional sports organization.
6:09
Whether it's the, you know, NFL, the NBA, and now obviously from from uh, mixed martial arts perspective, the UFC.
6:16
They were paying Spike to put themselves on TV?
6:20
That's That's publicly known.
6:20
They were actually, you know, paying for that airtime.
6:24
So, the the original Ultimate Fighter and then all all that was broadcast on Spike back in the day.
6:28
Um, yeah, they they were not only funding their own production, but they were paying for that airtime.
6:34
And and Fox was that really first paid deal that the UFC uh, garnered, and you know, and and it which was a uh, monumental uh, milestone for the sport and and for the promotion.
6:47
The sport of mixed martial arts, you know, is is it wouldn't be here without the UFC, which is the catalyst for where the sport is today.
6:53
Now, you have other promotions that are competing.
6:54
And promotion is very synonymous with leagues, right?
6:58
So, when you talk about leagues, um, you know, it's there there's certain terminologies within the sports world that are very similar, although there's a lot of differences as well, right?
7:06
In terms of, you know, athletes in NFL and NBA being employees and then fighters being independent contractors.
7:13
So, for us, we saw an opportunity of of it not only being the fastest growing sport in an underserved market for the athletes, but then also really thinking beyond just management.
7:24
How could we create, you know, um, more value for the clients.
7:26
And, you know, it ta- it takes a special client and a special personality like Conor McGregor.
7:33
So, I was very fortunate to sign him 10 years ago.
7:35
And, you know, and and we had a vision.
7:38
And he was very very bullish about that vi- vision as well.
7:40
Let's rewind Let's rewind to that.
7:42
So, you your story is kind of the I'll give you the the first part very fast.
7:45
So, you you play football at UCLA and I'm getting injured.
7:50
You move into uh management side of things.
7:53
You got You got some kind of football players as your first clients.
7:57
And then you branch into MMA and you discover Conor McGregor. Can you tell the story?
8:01
How did you How did you discover Conor?
8:03
What was What was his situation like at that time?
8:07
And uh What was those kind of the the first meeting?
8:10
Can you take us back to those days? Yeah, sure.
8:13
So, um I think taking it back to the first days, the early days of really working with guys like Chris Lytle, right?
8:21
Getting into the business.
8:23
Um when working with a guy like that, I got to work with him for one fight and then he retired.
8:27
So, then it was being able to sign Michael Bisping, which was one of the massive opportunities for me and and someone that I'm so proud of not only as a as a client, but as a friend as well.
8:36
He went on to be the first British uh champion, first champ UFC champion from uh from the UK.
8:41
And you know, he was a pioneer of mixed martial arts for all the up-and-coming athletes within Europe, you know, Ireland included.
8:50
So, um I was very fortunate enough to start to work with Michael and and other clients as well earlier in in my in my uh career in in in the UFC and in mixed martial arts in particular.
9:02
Um and so, when I signed Conor, it was when he first came on to to the to the UFC scene, right?
9:07
He was fighting in the regional promotion in Europe, Cage Warriors, which is still around and still a you know, let's call it mid-major, if you will.
9:15
And these are these are to some extent the professional um promotions, but they're feeder programs to the larger promotions, if you will.
9:23
And um he had just signed to the UFC and we were uh introduced uh interesting enough like through Facebook.
9:30
And you know, at the time it was he was you know, looking at signing with one of the agencies in the sport and I got an opportunity to pitch him and and coach his coach John Kavanagh as to why I felt that we would be the best fit for him.
9:48
And so, you got to you know, put you know, put your best foot forward and and give it a shot and and hopefully you win that business.
9:54
And I was fortunate enough that um you know, we got first opportunity actually to work with him heading into his you know, his first fight.
10:03
We said, "Okay, well, let's pause now.
10:05
Let's talk after this first fight."
10:06
So, he beats Marcus Brimage.
10:08
Was that the 50 D's baby? yeah.
10:12
That's the famous line from that fight.
10:14
And after that, his second fight was his US debut actually against Max Holloway and we we started to work with with one another um heading into that fight.
10:21
And so, um the rest is history.
10:24
But one of the things, you know, we recognized not only his athletic ability, but then he had special a special innate talent in inside the octagon, but you could tell he was very special and charismatic.
10:36
He had that it factor that you know, is is you know, I think it's it's once in a it's once in a generation type of of an athlete as well.
10:44
Not only from a physical perspective, but a qualitative perspective.
10:47
And so, you know, the sky was going to be the the limit um in terms of what we could do together.
10:54
And was that I mean, I've I've seen all the there's these older interviews where Conor still has acne, he has no tattoos, and he says like, you know, "Mark my words, you will see me in the UFC.
11:01
You will see me as a champion one day."
11:03
And then coming up leading up to that Marcus fight and then I think it was Dennis Siver in Boston, if I remember correctly.
11:11
Like in the early days, you still see that he has some type of star power on camera.
11:16
But behind the scenes, uh even at a young age in his early 20s, did you notice that uh the confidence and the star power was there just in your normal hanging out sessions?
11:24
Yeah, you could definitely see his charisma behind the scenes.
11:29
And um you know, he was like I said, he was very witty. Uh very very confident. But also very engaging.
11:38
You know, I think one of the things I always tell people is that you know, majority of people in the world uh know who Conor McGregor is.
11:46
And I would argue that most of them never seen him fight.
11:50
They've actually seen more of his interviews and and and um and him talking because you know, when he talks you can't take your eyes off it off it, right?
11:57
He's just so fun and and whether you love him or hate him, you're watching him, you know?
12:01
And that's that's I think what makes him special.
12:06
Yeah, you finding Conor is kind of like we've had guys on this podcast that are like yeah, I discovered Uber.
12:10
I was like the sixth investor in Uber or you know, like they're early investors in Facebook or something like that, right?
12:16
It's like a it's like an angel investment that goes on to become this this what do we call it?
12:21
It's like like a unicorn, right?
12:23
It's like this billion-dollar brand that you discover at that early age.
12:25
Were were other people pitching him for business at that time?
12:30
Cuz I remember that first Bermane fight, there was like a hype around him.
12:33
Like even his entra- entrance, people were like really excited about him.
12:36
And and I didn't know who he was at the time.
12:39
So I don't know even know how s- people were so excited about the guy at that time.
12:43
So I imagine that you know, there were other agents trying to win that business at that time.
12:46
Um do you have any good fun anecdotes or stories of like your hustle at that time to get him?
12:54
Or was it like no, people it was kind of like like an ignored asset.
12:58
People didn't realize that this was going to be that he was going to be a big deal and it it really what it didn't look like it was like this hotly contested thing.
13:07
No, I definitely think that people were were um you know, hot on him, but I think everybody was pitching him on the same idea.
13:15
It was more transactional.
13:15
And I think what what were um I stood out surely was because I had a broader vision.
13:21
I had a broader vision of creating IP, you know, and creating media content but also creating uh business ventures, right?
13:29
And I really was bullish in on that idea.
13:31
And I I remember even when I first launched Paradigm in 2009, my business plan was not only to be the best in class from a management perspective, but build uh clients media and IP where whereby building more brand equity for them and that would yield not only more ancillary revenues from a sponsorship perspective, but increase their value from a from their playing contract or perspective athletically and also leads to to business ventures.
13:57
And you know, I I was laughed at when I first had that business plan. It's too busy.
14:02
Focus on what you could do, you know, like uh and and I think that that's what stood out to him because he had that vision in for himself as well.
14:10
And um it was even if you think about what we did back in 2017 with the Floyd fight.
14:17
I mean, everybody thought we were crazy, you know, that that fight was never going to happen and everybody doubted us.
14:22
Everybody even some of those that ended up doing the deal and partnering with us.
14:26
So, ultimately, you know, we had to believe in ourselves and and more importantly go out and actually execute, right?
14:32
Because you could have dreams, you could have visions, you could start something, but if you don't execute successfully, it means nothing.
14:40
And now that trend is common.
14:41
Those exhibitions now are commonplace.
14:44
You see everybody now taking place in these exhibitions and there's an appetite from a consumer perspective for these unique matchups where people are are uh matched up from from different sports just uh to compete in combat sports.
14:57
Um and then we even launched our venture on the back of that. We launched Proper 2018.
15:01
And so, you know, again, at that time, I think it was maybe uh George Clooney and and um maybe Puff Daddy at the time, you know, but I don't think anybody else.
15:13
Now like Spears, everybody has a has some type of a of a a liquor brand that they're they're hawking and and then ventures is commonplace as well.
15:19
So, you know, to me I'm proud of the fact that we had this vision that we were able to execute more importantly, you know, because it's very hard to do.
15:28
It's hand-to-hand combat every day entrepreneurship.
15:30
I I want to ask you about the Proper Twelve stuff, but before that, so like I grew up watching Entourage and so you see like Ari Emanuel or Ari Gold dealing with like crazy young actors who have money and money and it's like, you know, drugs and sex.
15:43
And then Ballers, it's like drugs and sex as well, but the difference between you know, Ballers NFL.
15:51
But then there's the difference I imagine with UFC fighters where it's you're not an actor, you're not a player, you're going to get out there in your underwear and fight to the death in front of millions of people.
16:05
Can you like tell me a little bit about the difference between managing someone like Conor or Izzy like these like cuz I imagine the are they crazy?
16:13
What's that mindset like on a daily basis and that mentality particularly when it comes to business?
16:20
Have they Have you found that you've got to hold them back from being so aggressive sometimes or what's that like with that type of athlete?
16:25
Well, first of all, I don't think they're crazy per se.
16:28
So, it's not, you know, because of the profession or the sport that they're in that that they tend to be maybe a little bit um, you know, crazy so to speak, right?
16:37
I mean like when I say crazy, I mean like high high risk high risk.
16:44
I think look, it means depending on the field you're in, it's that's subjective what you think high risk and not. Most Totally.
16:50
that come from let's say if you're a neurosurgeon, you're going to think that combat sports is super high risk, right?
16:55
But ultimately, I think every human being is different.
16:58
They're certainly they're certainly when you're that competitive, you're going to be driven, you're going to be more aggressive, and I think I see it even in business at the same highest level there's there's that chip on the shoulder.
17:11
There's that edge that that every high-level competitor has whether it's an athlete in different sports, or whether it's a businessman or woman in at the highest level of their respective field.
17:21
So, obviously business acumen varies, right?
17:23
So, if you're talking about an institutional investor versus a professional athlete, that varies.
17:28
But even within the sport, you have athletes that have a very high level of business acumen.
17:32
Conor's not trained from an institutional perspective.
17:35
He didn't go get his MBA.
17:38
He doesn't have that that academic background, if you will, right?
17:40
But he's a very natural businessman.
17:42
What's the what's the story as an example of that? story is Proper Twelve.
17:46
story is Proper Twelve. I mean, he could have easily taken a check from a sponsorship perspective and been so short-sighted as opposed to putting up our own capital initially, finding the right operating partner, finding the right strategic
17:58
capital supply chain route to market, going out and creating our own, working without getting the sponsorship check for x amount of posts or y amount of appearances, if you will, for an ultimate windfall that changes life and is generational wealth. So, that in
18:11
So, that in itself is a great example.
18:14
Did you guys Did you guys have like Jameson like, "Hey, we want to sponsor you."
18:18
And you were like, "Dude, this, Conor. Let's do our own thing."
18:20
He's always had a desire to get into whiskey.
18:22
It's It's like he's Irish.
18:24
It's part of their DNA, right?
18:27
And his his grandfather was a was a whiskey man.
18:29
And we always had the idea when we were approached by a sponsor and and it was like, "Do we go and pursue a sponsorship and take a check, or do we just go and own our own business?"
18:40
And when you study the category and looked at the TAM and you looked at the opportunity, you're like, "We could This is ripe for disruption.
18:47
We actually could really come in and do something here, right?"
18:49
And so, that that's a perfect example of his natural business acumen, right?
18:54
Cuz it's hard to do that, especially at that level.
18:56
He wasn't making, you know, a ton of money yet up until he got to the Floyd fight, which is, by the way, when we announced our entry into the market.
19:05
We announced our entry into the whiskey market in our post-fight press conference.
19:10
Yeah, I remember he's he's holding the at the post though the process in 2014 and we were doing a lot of research and development and pivoting from different groups and and ultimately we we we found the right, you know, formula if you will and the right team etc. Right?
19:24
Um and and the rest is history and that to me takes a lot of a lot of intelligence for an athlete to do that's not trained, hasn't had the experience of building a business and, you know, more moreover the patience, right?
19:40
To really bet on himself.
19:42
How much of your guys' capital did you put up to get it off the ground?
19:46
And do you remember what your first year sales were what what was?
19:50
I I'll tell you I can't disclose all the information just due to strict confidentiality provisions that exist with our partners and our acquirer.
19:56
So, I I got to be safe, but I can tell you that we put up probably a few hundred thousand of our own capital initially. I can say that, right?
20:05
Um and that's, you know, I mean that most of that went to lawyers, if you will, just before you even got started.
20:11
So, um but it's like strategically I think the way we set it up and we have great partners, you know, one of our partners is uh and is an operating genius and is a wizard in the spirits business, Ken Austin.
20:24
So, I got to give him a shout out because I Yeah, he had another company, right?
20:29
I mean he did Avion, then he did Proper with us, he's done Teremana now, he's done Delola, he's done DeLeon.
20:33
Oh, he's a he's a he's a G when it comes to the spirits business, you know.
20:38
And when you find people like that, are you doing just like a like a 30 30 30?
20:42
Like, you know, you guys all split equity?
20:45
What I I can't I can't go into the details of the cap table.
20:49
I wish I could, but again there's strong confidentiality provisions in all agreements, but it was a it's a fair deal and I think everybody's happy in the end.
20:56
But moreover, you bring on a black belt that knows what they're doing.
21:00
Cuz at the end of the day, that's part of operating a business and being successful.
21:03
It's like you know what you don't know, but essentially, no matter what cap table looks like, you got to make sure you bring on that the right expertise, right?
21:13
From operational perspective, you have to have all the right ingredients to be able to execute successfully.
21:17
So, even with something like that, let's say, just to put this in perspective.
21:23
So, the decision to say, well, we could just take a straight sponsorship deal, get a check, make a few Instagram posts, and and you know, cash that check, um versus we're going to do the entrepreneurial work and actually build a brand.
21:35
The payoff difference, I imagine, you can tell me if I'm wrong.
21:39
I think it's probably a hundred to one.
21:40
Would that be approximate to like, you know, if you just say, okay, over a few years we would have a a kind of an alcohol sponsor and we're we're doing, you know, kind of these these scheduled posts with them, or commercials with them, or whatever it may be.
21:55
I think it's probably something like 50 to 100x bigger return by doing the work.
21:59
Is that I would say it's a more it's a multiple of that.
22:04
You think more you think a little bit a few hundred to How much would a sponsorship have been?
22:08
I mean, I mean, back in that back at that time, you know, when we first started the process, it would have been like two 250,000, something like that.
22:15
That would have been a big one.
22:17
By the time we launched, it probably was in the seven-figure range. Yeah.
22:19
In terms of sponsor sponsorship annually, right?
22:24
That's like an annual deal? Annual deal, right? Yeah.
22:26
Okay, so a million some some millions per year in order to promote a whiskey versus hundreds of millions. Yeah, exactly.
22:33
So, I would say I would say like it was, you know, you could run any, you know, analysis, you know, an NPV and look at like how we won and won big.
22:44
You talked about the Mayweather-McGregor thing, how that came to like how that Nobody thought that that was going to happen, and then it it actually happened, and it was kind of amazing.
22:52
I remember vividly where I was.
22:55
I remember I was on I was in Australia, and I had to get up at a certain time.
22:56
I was at a bar at like 5:00 in the morning or something like that to watch that fight.
23:01
Um but I also remember the build-up.
23:03
Like there was the kind of back and forth almost flirting on on social media talking talking trash to each other to try to generate interest cuz I think both guys, Floyd and Conor, probably the two smartest businessmen ever that come through combat sports.
23:16
And they kind of knew, okay, this is the right dance partner from for us to like execute something orders of magnitude bigger than what we could do.
23:24
And um, and I remember at the time it was seen as almost like the the Elon Musk Mark Zuckerberg thing today or it's like, wow, it'd be crazy if it happened but there's no way.
23:34
I mean, just to get all these people to get them everyone to agree um, seemed impossible.
23:38
Can you take us back like uh, you know, like I see all these videos of you like hanging out at Conor's house or whatever and like you get you know, the behind-the-scenes stuff.
23:47
There had to have been just like a couch conversation where you guys are like, okay, could we do this?
23:50
And how could we do this?
23:51
What what was that early days like before it came to fruition?
23:55
So, I to your point, I think, you know, you have two of the smarter and savvy businessmen in combat sports that really understood, you know, the modern-day fandom of both sports, right?
24:08
And early days like he wants to do it and then it would be shot down by UFC, by by members of the media, by whoever that just doubted that it would ever happen.
24:20
Um, and I think that the the banter is really what allowed it to happen.
24:25
Because once they started going back and forth and you could actually see the level of engagement and interest from a market perspective and from a consumer perspective, it was hard to deny it, right?
24:35
It was hard to deny it because it was like, this is real, it's viable, it it's a it's a win-win scenario and a win for all parties that'd be involved. Why not, right?
24:48
The fans want it, the fighters want it and and moreover, the numbers were speaking for themselves from from perspective.
24:54
So, that allowed us to really use what the two fighters were intelligently doing on a very instinctive level, right? It wasn't planned. That wasn't scripted.
25:04
It was very instinctive, but moreover, I think what what my job is is to look at the data and be like, right, there's something very viable here.
25:13
There's something that, you know, you have to be able to take and continue to to to advocate and push for your client because you could effectively have a successful business opportunity even for the UFC.
25:27
And so, that I think it took them a while to come around, but eventually they did because they realized there was just such an amazing and intense interest around this event that it it was real. It wasn't a gimmick.
25:41
It was something that everybody wanted to see.
25:43
And so, I think that was the credit to them, too, because again, it went against all their their their normal business practice.
25:51
They'd never done something like that before.
25:52
And it took, you know, I think for them to see the substance of it all to then move forward with us.
25:57
And ultimately, it was a huge success.
25:58
I mean, over 4 million buys.
26:00
I mean, I think there's probably there's a something there was some um report I remember receiving.
26:07
It was, yeah, like hundreds of millions of illegal streams.
26:09
I mean, like and we still did over 4 million buys. You know what I mean?
26:14
Like, so can you imagine if like it was the most bootlegged fight ever? Yeah.
26:16
And if we would have just been able to even just plug some of those holes, how many more buys we would have had, right?
26:22
But I mean, it was such a com- commercial success.
26:26
I mean, Can I ask you a quick question about those buys?
26:29
So, you said you said 4 million buys.
26:31
I'm not I'm not attacking this strictly about this fight, but when I see pay-per-view numbers, like what the headlines are, I think most of them are complete I think that when a fighter says, like, for example, I remember Floyd has multiple times said he's earned nine figures, so 100-plus million off of one one fight.
26:50
And uh I I think I've seen Conor say I I think he was just talking but he's like, "Oh, I'm making this much money off this um uh Cowboy Cerrone fight."
26:59
I think those are nonsense.
27:02
And the reason I think they're nonsense is it's almost like a rapper bragging about how much money they have.
27:07
It's like Part of the brand.
27:08
You're not It's part of your brand.
27:10
And also, no one's incentivized, like Dana or Showtime or HBO, they're not incentivized to like tell the public that you know, this dude's full of We gave him $2 million He didn't earn $20 million off this thing.
27:21
Oh, well, I No, let me Well, let me just There's a lot of That's a loaded That's a loaded cuz there's certain elements of that, you know, could be hypothetically true.
27:30
But for example, compensation is not fully reported when you're talking about UFC, particularly MMA.
27:37
Like that's not fully reported what the person's money are at the highest level that. You know what I mean?
27:42
So So it's actually more. Is even that true?
27:45
Because I It's just what's reported to the commission and assuming that they don't have what's called another agreement. So that's not true.
27:52
In terms of pay-per-view, there's speculation.
27:53
So for example, May-Mac in particular, there was, you know, I think there was rumors that were starting to trickle in that it did over 6 million buys or something to that extent, you know what I mean?
28:04
But it landed in like the 4 3 4 4 range.
28:06
And that's No, that's actual, right?
28:08
I mean, ultimately, you know, that's those are not fudged numbers.
28:11
And so what you were hearing about what potentially uh Conor made and potentially Floyd made On our side, I know it's more true.
28:20
On the Floyd side, I don't know if he divulges who he splits it with or, you know, what that what that looks like on his side.
28:26
So I can't comment on on his, right? But UFC was our partner.
28:30
So I know what they're what what reporting for Conor was Conor's.
28:34
I What was reported, I think, was 30 to Conor and 100 to Floyd.
28:38
Was that what was reported? I don't think so. But maybe.
28:42
I mean, in terms of what you're talking about reported to the the commission or the papers.
28:46
No, no journalist ever actually like breaks that down. You know what I mean?
28:50
So, that's why I'm saying like these numbers are so high and I hear that and I I was higher I think for for I think it was for sure we higher for Conor that I know.
29:00
And and you know, so Floyd I would imagine it would be probably around there or higher just depending on what he did again with Wow, you really think that 100 million was true?
29:08
Well, I mean I I ta- Conor was on you know, I'd say just under 100, right?
29:13
When it's all said and done. So, that's his part.
29:15
So, again he has a part we had a partner in UFC.
29:20
So, and I won't get into the specifics, but yeah, so from Floyd's side it's very reasonable to think that he could have pulled in 100.
29:26
Um assuming that he he didn't take it all, didn't have partners he split with, right?
29:33
you're a business guy, so you see what Floyd did in the boxing business where he basically became his own promoter, runs his own runs his own ship so that he can take the lion's share of of the the revenue or the the profits that come from an event.
29:45
Where like in the past guys like Mike Tyson and others sort of got screwed because they're out there fighting, generating all this demand then they look at 10 years later they're like, "Where's all the money?"
29:55
And the promoter has basically enriched themselves in that way.
29:58
And obviously the UFC's totally different, it's like a league, it works differently.
30:02
But a guy like Conor is essentially as big of a brand as the USC UFC.
30:06
Like you know, I'd say it's debatable.
30:09
They're in the same like the same like air.
30:12
And if Conor McGregor was to go do a fight on YouTube a pay-per-view or whatever he wanted to do, he could pull the same numbers as a UFC card without the UFC's promotion.
30:23
Do you think like I guess like when you see what Floyd did, do you think anybody's ever going to do that with the UFC or in MMA where they're going to become their own promoter and have their own shows?
30:32
I think the sport is still young and it's still evolving, right?
30:36
And while the UFC is to some extent synonymous to Lee, is a promotion, it's still structured to some extent, you know, like prize fighting, right?
30:46
There's still pay-per-view and even though there's rankings, sometimes you'll see the rankings are not It's not a true meritocracy cuz it's still prize fighting and entertainment to some extent, right?
30:55
Um and and I think that they have come a long way, but they still have a long way to go in terms of how much fighters should could earn should earn.
31:06
Um but at the end of the day, too, from a boxing perspective, I think that's why boxing has been on the decline.
31:10
It's still fragmented, right?
31:12
And there's The end of the day, there's not uh a true promotion that's that's stood the test of time.
31:21
I know Top Rank's been around forever, right?
31:23
but who do they really have?
31:25
Matchroom seems to be doing more.
31:27
Obviously, Premier still around and still PBC's still competing, but you see it kind of fragmented, right?
31:33
Canelo fight for Matchroom one one for for a couple fights and then he's fighting for PBC for his fight.
31:40
Um and and I And the difference is though, I think in boxing, promotions could fight each other and And so they have to agree on that, right?
31:47
I think in the MMA, it's going to continue to evolve, right?
31:51
You now have um the ability Can Conor do that?
31:54
Of course, I think Conor's one of probably the only person could carry his own show.
31:57
It's very difficult to do, right?
31:59
It's hard to go How many million pay-per-view sellers are there in either sport?
32:04
Not a lot, you know, it's like it's it's not that easy to do.
32:08
So, I think that from a from a UFC perspective, they've always looked at it as like, "Look, we're we're building something that's sustainable."
32:17
And they are correct in that regard, but I think that fighters definitely should have a a bigger piece of the revenues as this thing continues to grow, which I think they've come a long way, but they still have a long way to go, right?
32:31
This data is wrong every freaking time.
32:34
Have you heard of HubSpot?
32:36
HubSpot is a CRM platform where everything is fully integrated.
32:38
Wow, I can see the client's whole history, call support tickets, emails, and here's a task from 3 days ago I totally missed. HubSpot, grow better.
32:51
Yeah, I was going to say, you know, the other group that's trying to do their own shows is the kind of Jake Paul, Logan Paul style thing where they're doing these kind of like kind of celebrity matches, high interest fights, and getting people to buy pay-per-views for that.
33:04
Seems to honestly be working like you know, like I don't know what you think about those guys, but I personally used to be like, oh, you know, kind of wrote them off as just like kind of like they were like in the Jackass crowd of like the the YouTube generation, the Vine generation.
33:16
And then they said they were going to do this boxing thing.
33:19
I don't see who knows how seriously they'll take it.
33:21
But honestly like they've done a good job of actually like building up interest and pulling these events off and being like respectable, showing up very respectably, and winning several of these fights.
33:31
Um You can't hate on them, man.
33:33
You can't hate on them, mate.
33:34
You know, what the you're you're putting in the time.
33:37
Actually, our client Dillon Danis is fighting Logan Paul coming up in That's right.
33:40
Dillon Danis is your client?
33:42
so he's spot he's spot on.
33:43
Oh my god, that is so funny.
33:43
Are you the genius behind his current marketing strategy?
33:48
Is that your Did you sign off on that?
33:49
No, no, no, that's all Dillon.
33:53
I thought I thought you might have been his client.
33:54
There was a there's a famous video where Nate Diaz and Dillon are getting into it and Nate throws a beer on Dillon and I saw you in the video trying to be like the the father in the whole like you're like, hey, Nate, Dillon, could you guys please walk away? This is not good. Didn't work out.
34:07
My kids didn't listen, you know.
34:12
So, um but no, I I you know, you got to give those guys credit.
34:16
I mean, look, I I think they're they're they're putting in time in their craft.
34:19
They're they're going in there and and they're not only, you know, taking a shot, risking it.
34:23
You know, I could argue that they're not really doing it against real boxers, that's true.
34:28
You know, I think they're being more strategic and but you know, again, credit has to go to Conor, right? Who created that trend? Who started that?
34:37
It was us versus Mayweather and then now, I mean, even if Floyd goes and fights someone else, he doesn't get the same result without it being another two two A-side guys facing each other.
34:47
And while I give all of them credit, too, I don't think you've seen this blockbuster event that anybody's been hoping for.
34:53
So, so at the end of the day, though, there's a market, though.
34:57
There's an appetite from a consumer to go look at, you know, me and you, Shawn.
35:02
I don't I think maybe we may only get 100 people that tune in, but nonetheless, there's a market there and we're probably streaming on YouTube.
35:08
Sam is going to have to pay.
35:10
He doesn't get under You underestimate how many people want to see me get my ass whooped. Likewise, my friend. I think you're right. You're right.
35:17
So, what are the They've been begging to get Conor in that They're I think that that's the white whale that that Jake Paul's chasing.
35:24
What is the percent chance that a fight between Conor McGregor and Jake Paul ever happens?
35:29
I mean, right now, Conor's focused on Michael Chandler. I'm saying ever. Ever.
35:34
I I can tell you Floyd and Floyd the rematch is is there.
35:36
Logan Paul wants to fight him.
35:40
Jake Paul Conor has a lot of possibilities. Not zero. Yeah, it's not zero.
35:44
It's just not top of mind right now, right?
35:46
So, You need to take off your sports jacket.
35:48
You need to have a Proper Twelve.
35:49
You need to like I want the non-politician answer.
35:53
That You you You managers are so good at saying the best of everything. This is funny.
35:58
It's like I wonder if I just wore freaking streetwear and you know, and and and dyed my hair and bleached my hair like I used to when I was a young pop rock kid, you know, if everybody would really just hear what I'm saying.
36:09
This is This is not I'm just telling you the truth.
36:12
Like if he's going to fight Michael Chandler next, right?
36:16
It's not in the We're not thinking about that. You know what I mean?
36:18
But ultimately, of course we know he wants to fight.
36:22
Of course we know it's there and of course I think if everybody keeps doing their thing, it's going to be a market for it, right?
36:28
And so Well, let's talk about the the biggest of these freak show fights right now is Elon versus Zuck.
36:34
And it was one of those things that like in our world like that's that's never happened in the kind of business and tech world.
36:40
And then Dana comes out and kind of certifies he's like, "No, they want it to happen. We're talking to them.
36:46
We might make it happen."
36:48
Which is kind of Yeah, but he always does that. Well, exactly.
36:50
It's Dana White, so you never know.
36:51
Uh but you know, it was interesting that it got a little bit more heat from that.
36:55
What's your take on that?
36:57
And again, same question.
36:59
Probably He does that, but I don't know if Dana would have gone out on a limb if he hadn't really talked to both, right? I mean, did they?
37:05
Well, I'm sure he talked to both, but I know I don't think that he would done that, you know, and and even Zuck training with freaking, you know, a bunch of different fighters, Izzy and Volk and and Jon Jones and and then Elon bringing in GSP.
37:19
And do you believe it'll happen?
37:23
And if so, who do I believe Zuck would be down. Yeah. Catch weight, whatever.
37:28
It doesn't matter what they talk.
37:32
Like I think Zuck is down.
37:32
Zuck is a is is is truly, you know, training and regardless of this fight or not, he's in there.
37:41
Does that mean you think Elon might not be down?
37:43
Cuz that's our theory here on this podcast is that Elon wants to talk about it.
37:46
Look, from the outside looking in and all the information that I have, which is probably less than what you have being in the tech world, you guys have some freaking secret Telegram groups and with other Who told you about that?
37:59
Dude, for knowing you or like knowing what I think of you, you're probably going to be managing him.
38:06
I mean, I'm like Hey, I'll I'll yeah, I'll definitely going to pursue them, you know, but so long as we get some rights, not just transactional.
38:13
We got to build something together, you know?
38:14
But no, but I I I think it's up to Elon.
38:16
I I truly think it's up to Elon, you know? And I don't know.
38:21
Do you think Dana came out and said if They probably looked at the numbers though for both X and Threads are like, "This is great." Yeah.
38:31
But Zuck's more serious like, "No, don't talk about it."
38:33
I saw those text exchanges and all that kind of stuff that kind of were leaked.
38:36
And like I said, Zuck's Zuck's Zuck's Zuck's Zuck's about it.
38:41
He's not He's not bullshitting, you know?
38:43
Dana has said, "If it happens, it would be the biggest fight ever.
38:47
He thinks it would surpass Floyd Pacquiao, it would surpass Floyd Conor.
38:51
He thinks it would be that cuz it's just like uh you know, the freak of all freak shows in that sense.
38:55
Like it crosses over into so many different like fan bases or domains.
38:59
You get all the combat sports people, but you'd also get the business people to watch. I think so. I think so.
39:03
And I think It'd also be the saddest fight ever.
39:06
Yeah, it'd also be really a lame to watch.
39:08
It was actually It was It was actually It was actually kind of up the way Elon was all about it and then all of a sudden it's like, "Oh, it's not going to be the UFC.
39:15
It's going to be charity." Like, "Wait a second.
39:18
You can't play along all this time and then and then all of a sudden pull the rug, you know what I mean?
39:21
Like but Did you see the video of him curling a 40 or he had like a 20 lb or 40 lb weight at his office and he did a live Twitter where he was he's like, "I'm curling to prepare."
39:30
It's like, "Dude, if you think curl I swear to god.
39:32
If you think doing curls at your desk is how you prepare, you're this is not going to be good. Wrong sport, buddy.
39:39
Wrong sport, man, you know? Yeah, I didn't see that. That's funny. That's hilarious.
39:45
Dude, I want to ask you Let me ask you a about some other slick guys.
39:46
So basically, a lot of people who don't watch UFC they they don't know that So Dana's the front guy, you know, he's doing a lot of the match setting and he does all the talking and he seems like a wonderful businessman.
39:57
But the Fertitta brothers interest me most because they were I think I think Dana only owned like 4 or 6% of it when it sold, but the Fertitta brothers owned most all of it besides some outside money because they were already wealthy, but they seem like those guys they don't do a lot of interviews and they're a little bit behind the scenes. They seem like sharks.
40:16
Have you learned anything interesting from uh uh the two brothers and Dana uh about business?
40:22
Well, so obviously, look, uh they sold their their business now, right?
40:27
Endeavor ended up with Yeah.
40:28
you know, William Morris at the time. They they bought it.
40:30
Uh But I I had uh the pleasure of being able to to, you know, deal uh across from Lorenzo Fertitta on particularly uh on a on a couple clients, particularly Conor.
40:42
I obviously at that level Um and they're very savvy businessmen, very very composed, you know, I I It's not it's the the dynamic when I'm on the opposite side, naturally, it's adversarial a lot of the time, right?
40:56
And so, um you know, at the end of the day I'm advocating for my client, so it's it's I'm not their best friend, right?
41:02
It's not like they're going to invite me over for Christmas and and uh but but we do have we did have a respectful relationship, and I really really enjoyed dealing with someone, you know, that that has been not only used to trust for our sport and a pioneer in it, but was a super successful businessman in the casino business and and other businesses as well.
41:21
So, you learn you learn from the interactions and the dealings and the negotiations that you're you're you're you're doing.
41:27
Like, for example, when when Mayweather-McGregor happened, and we we basically got what we were achieving or or striving for from a negotiation, like Conor and I really we had that moment when we walked out of Lorenzo's office, we're like, "We did it."
41:41
You know, it was like a uh moment. Right?
41:45
And so, do you guys like keep a straight face till you get to the parking lot?
41:48
Yeah, you get like giddy, and start hugging and Well, in the meeting in in in in the office, you have the smirk, you know, you don't give it away. Right.
41:56
And then, yeah, when you get in the car, you're like, "Yeah!" You celebrate.
42:00
You know, um but yeah, man.
42:00
I think it's it's the human I think that's what people don't realize.
42:05
I mean, it's like it's the same in all sectors, all sports, and even the most composed person that doesn't do any interviews, I'm sure I've had those moments in their own, you know, journeys as well, right?
42:18
I read on um Front Office Sports, I think it's called.
42:20
It's like a sports publication, that the final exit for uh Proper Twelve was $600 million, and I think that was only four years after you started it.
42:30
Is $600 million in the ballpark?
42:32
Three years, and I can tell you you listen, if it's publicly printed, then you got to go with that cuz I can't necessarily comment on the specific numbers, but we're still involved, too.
42:42
It's not, you know, at the end of the day it's it's we we're still, you know, part of the team.
42:46
We're still pushing it to grow the brand.
42:48
We just came out with a new flavor, our Irish Apple flavor, which is amazing, um you know, dangerously amazing, too, cuz I you know, you just it it drinks and goes down so easy.
42:59
Uh but yeah, man, I'm I'm super proud of that brand.
43:04
Was that like a new level for you wealth-wise and what I mean, or were you able to make money a little bit along the way?
43:08
You know, I think that was a whole 'nother level, right?
43:10
That was a whole 'nother level where you're able to achieve, you know, your your your your you know, the your ultimate goals, right?
43:19
But ultimately, too, you're you're you're proving your concept. You know what I mean?
43:25
Like ultimately, like we're not having to go sell the platform.
43:27
We're creating liquidity events by creating opportunities um left and right.
43:31
Not just for clients, now we're creating ventures that are, you know, creative to the platform.
43:38
We have a a smart basketball technology called Hoop.
43:40
We have uh you know, some other ventures in the pipeline that are coming out that are very very much focused on on advocacy for the entire sport and creating something where we're putting our own capital in these things to create opportunities for everybody else, right?
43:56
And so, and and there's other things that we're creating specifically for our clients, right?
43:59
So, so, you know, in lieu of of uh of of of you know, having the opportunity to invest or you know, an athlete not maybe not having the brand equity to go start their own venture.
44:12
How can we bring them along the ride with us, you know, for for for the next proper troll list if if you will, right?
44:18
I always like to ask people this um because I remember you know, when you start out in business, typically you have kind of nothing to your name.
44:26
And you've got this literally nothing.
44:30
Literally credit card debt like Exactly. Nothing.
44:32
So you start at zero or usually you go below zero.
44:34
You dip below zero for a period of time. below zero.
44:39
Well, the the funny thing is and this is what people don't appreciate like my wife now, she was my girlfriend and she had a job and we were literally maxed out credit cards and for the first seven years of Paradigm, I didn't take a paycheck.
44:51
I was paying team members and staff before I was paying myself.
44:56
And I think people lose sight of that, you know, it's like but and but then when you have huge success, you still try to do right, take care of people, but even that's sometimes no good deed goes unpunished, right?
45:08
But ultimately the it's a war of attrition.
45:10
You have to be able to withstand all of it and really believe in what you're doing and you know, eat sandwiches daily Right.
45:20
on your way there, you know what I mean? getting at.
45:23
You you eat these sandwiches for in your case seven years, in my case I remember like for like eight or nine years straight of just uh like in my case it was just kind of failure, but like in your case at least you're building it up.
45:32
Um and then you finally have the moment where it's kind of like validated, realized, a payday comes in, you get a windfall along the way.
45:42
And like financially sure that's exciting and and things change at a logical level, but before it hits the logical level, there's kind of the emotional level of like what does that feel like?
45:53
Um what thoughts go through your head at that time?
45:54
We had a guy come on the pod, he's like like dude, I used to just every day for the next week I just drove to the bank and I would just go in the ATM, put my card in and say print receipt cuz I just wanted to see it.
46:03
And he's like he's like I didn't even have anything James Hong.
46:06
He's like I didn't even have anything I wanted to spend it on.
46:09
He's like I was just a I was just amazing to look at that cuz I knew the seven year or whatever that the the years that go into not not being there not having that.
46:19
And we had other people that were like, you know, oddly numb feeling. I didn't feel anything.
46:24
And other people were like, you know, I had a conversation with myself.
46:26
I said, all right, now I'm here.
46:28
Here's the pivotal conversation I had with So I always like to ask people about that moment cuz I think it there's usually something interesting that happens.
46:35
It's not just like just another day.
46:37
So It's It's surreal to me because, you know, on on one end it happened during COVID.
46:43
So it was a real It was a weird time for all of us, right?
46:47
And you know, you you you you you get there and honestly it's like you're pinching yourself.
46:52
And you know, because it's a new age you don't have to necessarily go to the bank account to print the receipt anyway.
46:57
You can just look at the app and you surely did that a few times. It's like, what?
47:00
You know, uh uh but also like you have to make decisions.
47:04
Like I we we hired more people. We gave people raises.
47:06
We gave people bonuses that had nothing to do with the with that part of the business.
47:11
And and we invested back in the business.
47:13
And so I was First thing I bought was my mom a plat my house and a car.
47:17
And so I like, you know, I I was trying to really you know, stay grounded. You know what I mean?
47:23
And more importantly like try to do right, you know, as best as you can um by for for those that are important to you both um family and on your team, right?
47:33
And and ultimately um still like just enjoy the moment.
47:37
And because we were kind of everybody locked in at home it was you know, every night it was for my wife and I it was just surreal.
47:47
And it's like you know, then you start to think about, okay, well, you tell your kids.
47:51
Do you not How do you raise them right way?
47:53
And how do you make sure you keep them hungry and humble and you know what I mean?
47:58
It's it's about that and a lot of things change, right?
48:01
Because it's like you get there and you start to realize um you got to start planning, thinking, and and acting differently.
48:08
But then also other unintended issues start to come up, you know?
48:12
Like there was I forgot more money, more problems.
48:14
This is is true, you know, at the end of the day. Um What problems?
48:18
Just a lot of different things.
48:21
I think People want People want People think that they deserve Um unappreciative people, no matter what you give them, you know, they just um unfortunately have a self-inflated view.
48:35
Um you know, I think there's there's a whole list of issues that come up with it, right?
48:39
Um that's the reality of it.
48:41
But it is you got to take the good, the bad, the ugly and just keep rolling with the punches and level up and level up and evolve.
48:48
That's what it is, right?
48:49
you were going to say you had a red panty night.
48:50
I was I was waiting for it.
48:52
That was the You said it for me. I did.
49:00
And you had two bites of the apple, right?
49:01
If I remember correctly, like I think you guys did you guys sell a portion of the of the business early on?
49:06
And I think you sold half of it and then Yeah.
49:08
another I don't know if it was the half or the rest or another big chunk. Yeah. Right? Yep.
49:13
Was it a hard decision to sell or did you have 600 million reasons?
49:17
I mean it it was I mean look, any first of all, it was an amazing time.
49:21
But it was after the fact that we like you know, we still have we we're still part of the business.
49:25
So we can still keep making a lot of money in in in into the next decade or and longer, you know, at the end of the day.
49:32
Um because uh it's always difficult to think about oh, what I shoulda coulda, right?
49:37
But you got to be able to count you know, the fortunes of it all uh you know, and and be grounded in in in that positive reality.
49:45
It's not a negative thing, you know, it's very easy to always Monday morning quarterback something be like oh, we shouldn't have sold cuz this this is not but You have those regrets, which I think is normal by the way.
49:57
I think most people who maybe most I think who they sell but if you sell it right you tend to sell early, right?
50:05
I mean that tends to happen.
50:07
I think I think the way we structured the deal allows us to really not only made a a ton of money but we just continue to make a ton of money.
50:17
And and you know, ultimately have I had those thoughts?
50:20
Sure, you always think about it and cuz it's for me it's more so okay. So execution, right?
50:26
So not only do we execute but then how's how are the deal? How's the terms? How's this? How's that?
50:32
You know, so I'm kind of like constantly watching the film to make sure that I'm learning and growing as an entrepreneur because I'm not resting on my laurels either. I'm not done, right?
50:40
And so I'm I'm still playing the game and while you play the game you got to be able to not only celebrate the victories but watch the tape back or see where you could have done better, right?
50:49
And that's the only way you're going to be the best at what you do.
50:52
So I have a partner who a business partner who basically he was he was already successful before but his second company he was about to get a $200 million check for the sale and it was a like a one of those like click-baity websites on Facebook that showed like top 10 lists and then Facebook changed the algorithm and the sale sale dropped from $200 million to like $30 million and it was just a massive issue because of platform risk.
51:16
And there's a lot of fear of platform risk.
51:18
Do you do you view Conor as like your platform risk?
51:22
Like if he really cuz he gets in trouble sometimes.
51:24
He gets accused of a lot of stuff.
51:27
Sometimes maybe he actually did do it sometimes he didn't do it.
51:31
Do you get nervous about platform risk with Conor of like if he does something really bad I'm I'm Yeah, well he's been accused of a lot of things and he's never been that's that's the the the the right?
51:43
Uh but obviously there's always risk in everything.
51:49
And I think when you look at, you know, such a, you know, Conor's kind of like an enigma, right?
51:52
So, there's certainly going to be uh those that may be adverse and not want to do anything.
51:59
But, at the end of the day, whoever gets to do a deal with us understands the McGregor brand, right?
52:04
And understands inherent risks that potentially come with that.
52:06
But, ultimately, they also look at the track record, and that is always going to win the day, right?
52:12
Cuz you could make all these claims, accusations, whatever, but ultimately, the facts are the facts, and the results are the results, and the data is the data.
52:22
So, I think when you look at all those things, sum of all parts is why we have a healthy relationship with all of our business partners, and we continue to incubate and launch other exciting businesses in and around the Conor brand.
52:35
For me, the he's the biggest client, he's the he's he's also the top 1% you know, pop culture brand in the world.
52:42
So, it's like unless I know on one side, the other people in that small uh bucket, if you will, he's always going to have he's always going to have a, you know, that that, let's call it, you know, a uh proportionate risk value across my platform, right?
53:00
But, ultimately, we're also, you know, much more than just one client, and we're building something that for me is into the future, right?
53:08
Did you see what happened with Barstool?
53:10
So, basically, Barstool Sports sold to a betting company. Like like uh Penn. Penn. Penn. Yeah.
53:15
And I don't remember the final sale. 600 million plus. Dave made a killing.
53:20
I think he got in stock, I think, right? A lot of stock.
53:22
Yeah, he he got a lot of stock.
53:25
I think he got some uh I think he was able to sell some.
53:28
I know I know that the the on Wall Street, you could see that he did sell a little bit.
53:32
And he um basically, after 3 years, Penn was like, "Shit, you guys are insane.
53:38
Like, you're it's really hard for us to do like cuz we're regulated as a casino.
53:42
It's really hard to let you do what you want to do without hurting us.
53:46
And ESPN wants to do this big deal with us, but they won't do it for with Barstool. You know what, Dave?
53:50
Here, look, just have the company back, and if you ever sell it again, we get half of the profit. Cool?
53:54
And in exchange, we're going to do this ESPN deal, which is going to boost our stock. We're good.
54:00
It was like the the greatest coup of all time of like, you know, Dave getting uh Dave selling it, and then them just saying, "Here, actually, we don't want this.
54:09
Uh you know, maybe we have a world where the buyer of of Proper Twelve is like, 'Hey, this was cool and all, but you know what? You can just have it. It's yours now. You can have it back.'"
54:18
I think that was brilliant.
54:18
It was great move for him, and I think he still has Penn stock, too.
54:22
So, then the stock goes up, and he's winning again. So, good for him.
54:26
Um yeah, that then that's a that's an interesting sector where we're getting ready to enter into as well.
54:30
So, I mean, that's that's a I'm interested to see what they do with it now, right?
54:36
Barstools, and see what they end up who who they end up, you know, partnering with to try to get that off the ground.
54:41
You probably I'm guessing you kind of studied other people who had talent like this.
54:46
Like, I don't know if you have you're in a group chat with like Scooter Braun and like, you know, John Shahidi or some of these guys that are managing, you know, the the sort of the big sports of those same top 1% kind of like people who can move the needle.
54:57
John's a John's a John's a friend.
54:57
I don't know Scooter, but John's a friend. Who's John? What's his last name?
55:02
The guy who manages the Nelk Boys now. Um Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um Yeah.
55:08
So, he's he has probably he has he has like a dozen or so some of the top podcasts and personalities, you know, he's he's a he's a he's certainly a uh entrepreneur I respect.
55:19
And he um and so, you you kind of studied them a little bit.
55:22
If somebody was studying you, and they see what you're doing with Conor and how you built like, I'm just going to name them off.
55:27
So, you did a whiskey brand, Proper Twelve.
55:29
You have Netflix documentaries and like entertainment that way.
55:31
You have Road House, which is like the new movie coming out.
55:34
You have the August McGregor the the suit lines.
55:36
You have title, which is like the recovery spray.
55:41
You have the fast app, which is like fitness like app uh plus and I think like gyms coming or whatever like you know something like that like a fitness brand that obviously fits.
55:48
And we have actually have a event-based competition coming with three called 3KO.
55:53
So, that's going to be you know, think of of Spartan Race meets meets meets uh CrossFit Games, you know. Very cool.
56:02
So, you got you have that, you have uh I think it's like a mobile game that he's in.
56:05
You got you do like kind of the the celebrity fight with Mayweather.
56:08
There's all these different things you've done around that person, that brand.
56:12
And I'm sure some of them worked amazingly and some of them probably were too much work for what they were worth and you just you learn as you go, right?
56:19
You're not I doubt you you were the one entrepreneur who just magically had everything right from day one. No no way, right?
56:24
So, if somebody was studying you or somebody had, you know, was it was had was with the next McGregor was with another star creator, would you what would be your kind of like advice to that person?
56:34
How would you advise them based on your learnings of the last 10 years of trying to figure this out?
56:40
Yeah, I mean first and foremost, I'm still learning, right? I'm still learning. I'm still growing.
56:44
What I would say is, you know, you have to be ready to uh you know, not only dream, but act on those dreams, right?
56:56
And come prepared from a research and preparation perspective, building out a plan, and be fluid because it's not always going to go to plan, right?
57:04
But if you're prepared and you do have a plan, you're you're likely more you're likely to execute even if you have to deviate a little bit cuz you have to stay fluid with what reality hits you with, right?
57:17
Uh you have to also have thick skin, man.
57:19
Like at the end of the day, it's a war of attrition.
57:20
You're going to eat sandwiches daily for a long time.
57:24
And so, you got to be able to withstand that with a smile, but be able to see through all the noise, the pressure, and more importantly, have that ability to communicate with that with that client, right?
57:37
Cuz you guys got to stay in sync in terms of what you're building.
57:39
Um I would say, you know, one of the things I wish I would done build it a team around you that's more experienced than you, right?
57:47
Because ultimately, I think that that's what's going to allow you to accelerate your plan as opposed to bringing people and then having to deal other with other things like those people turning on you.
57:57
Well, what what what reason or not?
57:59
How how big's the Paradigm team? It's still boutique.
58:02
So, we're about 15 on the on the whole co-level, but then every brand co, if you will, uh has has its own respective team, right?
58:11
Um and what I would also say is, you know, don't don't stop innovating, right?
58:14
Um don't stop trying to create uh new opportunities that have to align, right?
58:23
With their client, right?
58:25
Organically, but you got to make sure you're able to clearly define that.
58:26
What what's your criteria?
58:29
So, like you've gone into these 10 different categories.
58:32
How do you pick which category to go into?
58:33
What What is it Well, it has Well, first of all, it's the line organically. Right.
58:36
And they have to have a genuine interest cuz you can't sell something that's fake.
58:39
I mean, everybody thought, and that's another thing, everybody thought Profit Tool was going to be a gimmick until they tried it.
58:46
It's obviously, if you don't drink, you don't drink, but if you try it, you're going to Oh my god, this is great.
58:51
We made sure we created a substance to brand, right?
58:54
It wasn't going to be just something that we just put his face on it and try to sell.
58:58
And that's important, I know, to him as well.
59:02
And that's why he believes in in in in the ventures that that that that he's involved with.
59:07
He's very passionate, but it's they're of substance as well. They're quality.
59:10
So, you have to understand the market.
59:13
You have to understand the players in the market.
59:16
You have to understand how you fit in and how you can disrupt the market and grab market share.
59:21
And you have to put a plan together that allows you to to have a higher probability of success with the black belts that are are going to help you operate the business, you know, and then having all the other components that making sure that you could actually build a product or service of substance.
59:38
By the way, did you ever consider just putting his name on it?
59:39
Cuz like you have like Jameson or Johnny Walker or Jack Daniels, like McGregor's name is is so famous.
59:45
It's an interesting brand decision.
59:48
It's actually take It's taken.
59:48
We did think about that, but the actually there's a the McGregor clan, I think the Scotch, if I'm not mistaken.
59:53
So, that was that was certainly considered.
59:56
We We also considered Notorious Irish Whiskey at one point. Right.
1:00:00
Um and and you know, again, even early earlier days.
1:00:09
No, Proper Twelve is a good name. Proper Twelve is good. name.
1:00:12
Again, we'll be What's it mean?
1:00:13
Like the tw- Is it like the 12 districts of Dublin or something? Dublin 12.
1:00:16
So, each let's call it Yeah.
1:00:19
borough or city within Dublin is a is a number.
1:00:21
And where he's from is Dublin 12.
1:00:23
And so, and proper, I mean, they would say, "That was a proper night out."
1:00:27
You know, like, "Oh, it's proper good time."
1:00:29
And um so, it's you know, Proper Number Twelve.
1:00:31
That just made sense for the brand.
1:00:33
And again, after pivoting several groups and finding the the right partners, you know, we came up with the brand together and Sean and I are big fans of of words, you know, like we'll hear someone say something and we're like, "Oh man, the language they used was beautiful.
1:00:48
That was really good language."
1:00:49
Whether it's writing or just someone talking.
1:00:52
The cool thing about Conor is he he he's got the beautiful vocabulary and beautiful timing and beautiful phrasing.
1:00:58
So, he uses wonderful words.
1:00:58
And so, like I remember when he was fighting Jose Aldo, he would talk about like he was like, "If this was another time, I would storm your pavilla."
1:01:06
And then he like talks about like what he would do to the And like he he like, you know, the whole red panty night.
1:01:11
Like he just has like really funny catchy phrases.
1:01:12
I guess Trump kind of did this, too, where he just like It's just really catchy stuff.
1:01:18
Are you guys ever just shooting the and you're like, "Oh, that's a line.
1:01:22
We're going to have to We're going to have to use that." Like very natural.
1:01:25
I go back to the acting then.
1:01:27
I mean, that is stuff that it's not rehearsed.
1:01:31
It's very much stuff that he just comes up with.
1:01:34
But, we'd be there and he'd say some stuff and I'd be like, "That was hilarious.
1:01:37
That's another That's another McGregorism." You know what I mean?
1:01:39
Like You're like, "Put that in the bank.
1:01:40
Use that one another time."
1:01:42
two fan service questions that are around that. Number one, Yeah.
1:01:45
during the May Mayweather press tour, uh which was just like a very Yeah, that was that was so much fun. I didn't think about it.
1:01:52
But, it looked Cuz you you all UFC press tours are the same.
1:01:54
You go, you sit, and they ask you questions, and then you react.
1:01:57
Whereas, that one was like, "Stand up and give a speech."
1:02:01
And it almost looked like Conor was almost ambushed like, "Oh, I just got to give a 20-minute improvised speech in front of millions of people right now?"
1:02:07
And then he kind of did it. Was that an ambush?
1:02:09
I always wondered if you knew like idea what the format was going to be like.
1:02:13
And Sam, yes, it was exhausting at the time.
1:02:16
But, just thinking back to it every time it kind of comes up from whether it's the you know, the anniversary, whatever it may be, it was such a great experience, man.
1:02:24
And it was like once-in-a-lifetime thing because, you know, Sean, it there was no format. So, that's your point.
1:02:31
I don't know if he felt ambushed, but certainly we're like, "Oh, what How is it for this one? How is it for that one?" Right.
1:02:36
But, the energy of all of them was out of this world.
1:02:39
And so, I think that they fed off that energy, which gave them the ability to deliver these legendary lines, dance it back and forth.
1:02:47
I remember watching it and it was clear that he was like, "Wait, there's no questions.
1:02:50
I just have to I just have to go?
1:02:52
Okay, I'm a I'm a comedian now? All right. Do it, Ben." And he said this line.
1:02:56
He goes, "You know, they they tried everything.
1:02:57
They didn't tell us the format.
1:02:59
My microphone doesn't work.
1:03:00
They're trying to put me in a uncomfortable situation, but they don't know I thrive in uncomfortable situations."
1:03:07
I almost feel like he was giving himself a pep talk during the speech.
1:03:09
I I really love that line. That was that was great.
1:03:11
But, I also have another kind of fan service question on almost the other side of the coin.
1:03:16
So, as you can tell me and Sam are both fans of you, of the UFC, of Conor.
1:03:19
Like we we really uh and I took a lot of inspiration from some of the you know, it's it's just a badass thing to go out there and just fight and and put yourself on the line like that every single time.
1:03:28
There's something to be admired with that for sure.
1:03:31
And I think Conor came in with a very uh like at the beginning, how could you hate the guy?
1:03:35
Like he was he was bold, he came from nowhere.
1:03:37
He was like, you know, this guy who was like you know, apprentice plumber and then was like all of a sudden beating everybody exactly the way he said he would.
1:03:45
His fighting style was electric.
1:03:46
Like there was nothing to dislike about the guy I thought on the on the come up.
1:03:50
Uh I'm sure some people did, but like the majority of fans I think were were were on the come up were just like this guy's incredible.
1:03:58
And then there's sort of almost like a heel turn now where um I know a lot of people who I watch fights with, they're sort of feel like he's kind of jumped the shark.
1:04:05
Like oh, you know, now he's this like first of all, he's like super jacked now in this huge way.
1:04:10
He's like more of a boxer.
1:04:12
He's he hasn't fought in a long time.
1:04:14
You know, he talks trash.
1:04:14
Maybe he's crossing the line too much.
1:04:16
Oh, he's getting in trouble.
1:04:17
Like there's all these things that honestly like I know he's your client and he's your friend and you're probably never going to say a bad word about him, but I think there are some fair criticisms that like you know, it's understandable why somebody who was a super fan might now feel like uh you know, I can't really you know, get behind everything that I'm that I'm seeing here.
1:04:33
Um do you think about that at all?
1:04:36
And do you uh I guess like what's your reaction to that?
1:04:39
I don't really know how to phrase the question, but I feel like you're one of the few people on earth who would have a an an opinion about this that I would really care to hear.
1:04:47
I mean, look, I it's just like you are engaged with these conversations.
1:04:51
Naturally, I'm going to hear everything, right?
1:04:53
From people around me and you know, uh whether it's my friends, whether it's family.
1:04:57
And ultimately, what I'll say is this, like you know, everybody's entitled to their own opinion.
1:05:03
I know who the person is and obviously I I do have an intimate relationship with something that's more than just transactional, it's more than just a client, a business partner.
1:05:13
Someone that I I'm I'm loyal to, he's been loyal to me.
1:05:15
And so, at the end of the day, you know, I know that history, once it's done being written, will be interpreted by everybody differently.
1:05:25
He's definitely not perfect.
1:05:28
He's definitely made mistakes.
1:05:30
But a lot of the criticism, too, is subjective.
1:05:33
It's based on where where you stand on what you believe in or what you want to see, etc.
1:05:37
But A, A, never been legally all those accusations have not been legally found to be true, right?
1:05:46
B, he was the cleanest and most tested athlete before he got out of the sauna pool.
1:05:51
And when he returns to fighting, he's going to do it the right way and everything's going to be legal.
1:05:54
So, everybody can say what they want to say.
1:05:57
There's nothing that was done wrong, right?
1:05:59
And so, he's he's constantly being vilified because ultimately, the stuff that they loved him for, he still does.
1:06:05
Still outspoken, still says what's on the top of his mind.
1:06:09
But maybe because he has the riches now and it's not the rags anymore, sometimes we try to tear some people down. I don't know why. I can't tell you, right?
1:06:18
But ultimately, I do know proof's in the pudding.
1:06:20
He has to continue to go out there and show that he could continue to evolve, be the best version of himself, not just athletically, but as a human being as well.
1:06:29
And ultimately, that's on him to do and I can't do that for him, you can't do that for him.
1:06:33
But criticism is going to come.
1:06:36
And when you're when you're in the public eye, you got to be ready to to take it on.
1:06:39
And at the end of the day, heavy is the head that wears the crown.
1:06:43
You can't just walk the good and not take the bad with it.
1:06:44
So, ultimately, that's something that we constantly talk about.
1:06:48
Something that I know he says, I say to him. We talk about. He understands that.
1:06:52
But it doesn't make it easy.
1:06:54
It doesn't make it easy cuz ultimately, it's like you know, you know, you talk about that that aha moment.
1:07:00
I don't know how many entrepreneurs you've had on this podcast, but when they have that big moment, they don't need to be seen by everybody.
1:07:08
They're probably enjoying it with nobody watching them.
1:07:10
Or if they go somewhere, nobody really recognizing who they are, right? Myself included.
1:07:14
So, ultimately, it's very different.
1:07:16
And um that doesn't, you know, it essentially absolves him of of the responsibility that he has to take upon himself in certain instances.
1:07:26
But, more more importantly, it makes me understand pressure is real.
1:07:31
Not only to win and succeed, but on another level, to live your life so visibly for everybody to just critique every little thing.
1:07:37
In today's world, man, everybody has an opinion, you know?
1:07:41
You guys, before you met me, you thought I was a square suit because of how I appeared visibly to visibly to you without ever talking to me before, right?
1:07:50
So, it's like very easy and fast judgment based on whatever your belief system is, how you were raised, your experiences with someone that looked like me, whatever it may be, or your opinions of agents just cuz you watched Andre on some ballers, but I I can't change that ultimately, right?
1:08:05
And so, when you live in today's world like that for everybody to critique, man, it's going to come with not just the good, but the bad and the ugly as well, and you got to deal with it.
1:08:15
I like the fan questions, you know, this is it's fun.
1:08:18
We we've had Ariel Helwani on here.
1:08:21
Uh you know, we've become friendly with Ben Askren.
1:08:22
I think we've talked to Mike Mike Bisping.
1:08:24
We've talked to a bunch of folks.
1:08:25
It's uh you know, Shawn and I are super fans.
1:08:27
So, it's always fun to like get like the insider.
1:08:29
How many fights have you guys been to in person?
1:08:31
I've I've only been to three or four. You been to more?
1:08:35
there's I I the the the in-person event is definitely like the best in-person sporting event.
1:08:40
But, in my opinion, if you're like a like a a nerd and a fan fan, it's so much better to hear the commentary and to see it on uh and to like to see like the replay of the Sean O'Malley uh knockout uh on Saturday.
1:08:52
Like, it was really awesome to be able to like see it close up.
1:08:54
You know what There's one challenge with UFC, which is that the cage and the cameraman on every post of the cage does kind of screw up the viewing experience depending on where you're at.
1:09:04
depending on where you're at. Like I'm sure if you're right next to right ring side it maybe you don't have that issue, but like we went to one event at the the Vegas place the one where Masvidal knee'd Askren into like, you know, you know, the next realm and uh and and you know, the guy I saw it, but the guy next to me like literally
1:09:24
couldn't even see the missed the moment cuz it was like a split it was like in the first 5 seconds of the fight and secondly like you know, just because of the cage like if you go to a football game or a basketball game it's open field it's you know, it's very easy to see what's going on where you're almost watching on the jumbotron. Well, Well, it's interesting.
1:09:39
First of all, I think look, there are pros and cons to your both your points.
1:09:43
The energy of big fights is something else. It's electric.
1:09:47
I mean just the walkouts and the crowd and you feel it and then you hear the thuds and you know, it's like it's it's pretty pretty amazing.
1:09:53
I was at Jorge and Nate and it was like spectacular. Right.
1:09:59
But you just it's just nice to be able to like you got to go home and watch the replay and Yeah, yeah.
1:10:03
But then from a view perspective to your point unless you're like the first few rows on the floor it's actually that the the the mid low riser which is the perfect view cuz you're looking into the octagon but you're still really fairly close and I think that's the best view live, right?
1:10:22
But um nevertheless no matter where your seats are I think for big big big events you the the electricity of that place is something else, you know.
1:10:29
So, what's going to happen like I'm following this whole circus with Dillon Danis and Logan.
1:10:36
I have I've never even seen Dillon Danis train.
1:10:37
I went and watched his two Bellator fights, but that was like years ago.
1:10:40
What's going to happen like I I don't know.
1:10:43
I've never even seen him spar or anything on like leading up videos.
1:10:46
What's going to happen uh on that? When's that? August? It's August 14th?
1:10:51
Logan is is obviously has a a up having you know, boxed before, right?
1:11:00
Yeah, but that was years ago. think he's bigger. No, listen, listen. I I I get it.
1:11:01
Uh uh you know, the fight's actually scheduled October 14th, but but Oh, October 14th.
1:11:08
Dylan has made all the necessary necessary adjustments to his life, to his preparation.
1:11:14
But this is his boxing debut.
1:11:16
So, he has to go in there and really prove it, right?
1:11:18
I Now, I can tell you the banter that's going back and forth, I mean, you know, he's confident in his abilities and he's definitely putting in the work.
1:11:26
So, ultimately, you don't you don't make you know, you don't take that position with the banter that he's doing if you're not going in there with some level of confidence in yourself, right?
1:11:34
So, and and I and I'm sure it's giving Logan a little bit more to train for, right?
1:11:38
Cuz ultimately, it's it's personal now, I would imagine, right? Um Oh, yeah.
1:11:43
Not even Conor, you know, king of trash talk, Conor wouldn't even he never even went that far uh to talk about family.
1:11:48
I I don't like that he talked about family, but I like it in the sense of like I'm going to stare at it.
1:11:56
Yeah, I'm just saying so I'm I'm a kid on the internet and I think it's funny, too, you know? Yeah.
1:12:01
Yeah, I I I I I Like it's it's too far, but at the same time I'm like but it's there, you know what I mean? I'm watching that.
1:12:05
Listen, I think what's interesting is the, you know, love it or hate it, the engagement for that is through the roof and you know, it should help sell the fight and more importantly, like it's about now performing, right?
1:12:18
Cuz ultimately, you can talk all you want, now you got to go in there and perform.
1:12:22
But he's made all the adjustments to his life, personally, professionally, which which I'm very proud of him for doing, that will give him that that that high chance of winning this.
1:12:32
I think he's going to impress and shock a lot of people.
1:12:35
People are not giving him enough credit and I think when he goes in there, it's it's his time to shine.
1:12:38
Now, he's putting he's going to put he's going to basically put his money where his mouth is, cuz the mouth is getting ready, is going to make people want to watch him, love him or hate Well, you're you were kind of implying you're like, well, it doesn't matter unless he loses and uh I kind of disagree.
1:12:52
I think uh I think he's already won whether he loses or he's already kind of like from where he was starting to where he is now, like you know, he's already gotten it'll be okay.
1:13:03
He'll even if he gets knocked out right away, he'll probably be better off than where he was.
1:13:06
Oh, this is a great opportunity for him. No doubt. No doubt.
1:13:09
Thanks for doing this, man.
1:13:11
Where should people follow you if they want to get more?
1:13:13
Just my first and last name at audiotar Twitter, Instagram, threads and Sorry. Yeah, sorry.
1:13:20
Yeah, at audiotar X at audiotar threads at audiotar Instagram.
1:13:26
I think one of three still remain. All right, Audi.
1:13:32
Thanks for doing this, man. All right, Jess.
1:13:33
Shawn, Sam, thank you so much. Appreciate it. And that's the pod.