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Welcome back to Los Angeles. >> Thank you. >> Do you like it here? >> I I like it here.
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I mean, >> your voice went up a little high. >> Yeah.
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Uh I'm not I'm not very good at uh bullshitting really. Um >> please don't.
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>> Look, I spend I spend a lot of time here because um my son lives out here.
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Well, he lives in in Venture, actually.
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>> Um so I've been spending a lot of time here for for a while.
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>> I think it's one of those places you need you need your little you need your click really. So you need your roots. >> Yeah.
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I'm only ever really here for Freddy.
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So, it's not somewhere that like is an overly social place for me.
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It's like this is where I'm full-time dad basically, which is now >> 10. >> Wow. Congrats. >> 10. About to be 10. 10 in two dates.
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>> What's he into without putting his biz in the streets? What does he love? >> Loves surfing.
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Nothing's come close to surfing.
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I've tried to push him into into football a little bit.
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Um, [laughter] >> you know, gently, gently.
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But, um, he doesn't seem overly bothered about that. Surfing's his thing.
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We went to Disney yesterday to celebrate his birthday, which um, which was an experience. That was fun.
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It's been a while since I've been >> experience. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> No shade. There's never any shade. >> No, no, no shade. No shade. But >> on a hot day.
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No, but I mean no shade, but also no shade on a hot day.
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On a hot not to keep it like not to keep it modern and very Gen Z. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah.
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But actually no shade like I I noticed at Disneyland that on a hot day it's uh >> tough. >> It is.
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Yeah, it was very very hot.
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I actually felt pretty bad cuz uh >> one of the first rides that we went on, me son uh I do encourage him to be brave.
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I do hope that he is brave and he was well up for getting on the first roller coaster and it was one of the space mountain one more scary ones.
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>> So we started there and I was thinking well listen if he could do this he's probably do anything on the park >> which is probably quite naive parenting and I learned the hard way on that and honestly I felt I was absolutely mortified.
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We went on one of those do you know those like big dropper ones like what you just graduated him to the like the free faller. >> Yeah. Yeah.
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[laughter] Ah, and he was like, at first he was like, "Yeah, I'm up for it."
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And then the first time it dropped. >> Yeah. Yeah.
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>> He did seem a little bit scared and that was I had to then try and comfort him while also having me breath taken away, dropping on that.
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Yeah, that was quite intense, but it was a great day.
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>> We don't know what we're doing as parents.
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You know, we're just making it up. Doing our best. We're doing our best. Exactly.
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>> Well, congratulations, man.
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You built a beautiful life for yourself. Thank you, bro. Thank you.
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You know, you've got some some really great mature foundations now.
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you know, you know, being a parent, family, whatnot, and you're still getting to build out this wonderful dream of being an artist, um, and follow through on that thing that grabbed you when you were a kid.
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How old were you when you realized it wasn't just a a passing love of music or or something you wanted to to absorb. You wanted to be in it.
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You wanted to participate. >> Yeah, probably.
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It was late for me probably cuz I got put in the band when I was 18.
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I auditioned when I was 18 for the X Factor.
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So, it was probably like 17.
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I'd just done a school production.
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First time I'd done anything like that. It was Greece. Feel like.
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Did we speak about that last time? >> Maybe a little bit.
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But I'm still I'm still surprised by the fact that you pulled out a bow and arrow just decided to take on archery and got a bullseye on the first go.
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You wanted to become a musician at 17 and joined One Direction at 18.
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>> Yeah, that kind of worked out for me. Yeah.
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Where I grew up in Doncaster, there wasn't We've actually got Young Bloodood now who's also from Doncaster, but there wasn't a lot of stories like that, you know, inspiring stories.
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So, it was never really on my radar.
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I mean, the first time I really took it seriously was going to audition for the show. Really? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
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>> Um, so yeah, I did all right. >> The rest is history. Yeah.
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And that brings us to new history, this brand new album, man.
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Um, you know, it is a leading question.
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I mean, how did I get here? We did talk about that.
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Uh, we talked about the multiple meanings of what that can mean.
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What does it mean to you today?
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>> It's a statement of all.
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I'm not I'm not I'm not interested in answering the question.
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The first couple of years once I'd kind of been, you know, been doing this job, I think I was probably a bit more interested in answering that question.
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But after years and years of trying, >> there is no answer to it.
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You know, I think it's so out of the ordinary what I do and especially as I said, the place that I come from, there's not loads of these stories to kind of look to.
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>> So, I'm just looking around open arms like, you know, how the did I get here? How did we get here?
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Me and me fans, you know? It's uh >> Yeah.
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So, then I'm It's just basically gratitude, I suppose.
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That's the feeling that I was thinking about. >> Yeah.
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Well, the cover, the artwork, I'm assuming that was shot in Costa Rica while you were out there recording. >> It actually wasn't.
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We all certainly not Doncaster.
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>> No, it's certainly not Donnie. No.
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Um although looks as overgrown as some parts might be.
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Um to be fair that was in I want to say somewhere in France.
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Um can't remember off top of me, but we wanted it to basically look like Costa Rica.
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I'd already been to Costa Rica at this point, so wanted to have that kind of feel.
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I think the filter does a bit heavy lifting as well. >> It's nice. It's a nice filter.
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It's a powerful image, man.
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Um you know, you look like you're relinquishing some control, you know.
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Um, it doesn't look like, you know, uh, you're walking away from something.
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It looks like you're walking towards something. >> That's nice. Yeah, I I like that.
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I also wanted like I've had my last couple of records have been very >> It's a little bit like those old family photos you used to go for in the '9s, you know, like really kind of prim and proper. You're sat on a stool.
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It's like front and center.
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I'd done that for the previous two records and >> yeah, I wanted to have the whole thing.
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I wanted to feel a little bit more cinematic that it had a little bit more of a world behind it.
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Um, >> so that that's been fun.
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something that I haven't really done before.
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Try and, you know, just add more and more detail to the music as well.
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You know, >> you made a really lovely statement about this record.
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You honored the music by saying you feel like it's the album that you deserve to make, the album that you've always kind of wanted to get there.
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You could look at it on a timeline and be like, well, what took you so long?
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But I think that's a totally fair amount of time.
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Because if you think about you made your first album in 2020, you took your time.
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You really took your time.
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You know, you gave music and show people what you were thinking at the time. Here's a song.
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Here's where my spirit is.
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Here's where my spirit is.
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Here's where my spirit is.
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Um, was it by design to take so long? >> It wasn't.
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It wasn't wasn't by choice and it wasn't. I mean, choice maybe.
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Um, but I I certainly at that time would have hoped for things to happen a little bit quicker. >> Yeah.
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>> But, um, at that point I was like 24, 25, just left the band and you know who you are as an artist, it's like a metaphor of who you are as a person really.
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You're still working a lot of that out. >> Life. >> Yeah. Yeah.
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And you know, I had I had it was obviously I loved every second in One Direction, but there was lots of growing up that had to do post that, you know, cuz we didn't, you know, often people would be there to help us with many things.
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And actually claiming your independence was another thing that that that was another mission of mine post One Direction that took a bit of time.
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Uh had some stuff going on me family life as well.
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Some tough stuff to deal with.
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So, it was one of those things.
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I remember being really frustrated at the time, but I'm I'm thankful to have that time now.
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I'm thankful that I gave myself that time and and didn't overly rush into anything.
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Truthfully, when I listen back to Walls, it probably could have taken another year, that first record.
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It's indecisive as a record.
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I I >> What do you hear that's so decisive about it from an artist point?
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>> I just think Listen, my fans hate it when I badmouth me old.
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I love I love I love I I I >> you could be you can you can critique your own work and time. >> Right. Right.
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Um Walls was it it just it lacked a bit of identity.
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It didn't really at that point I wasn't brave enough to say, you know, here are all my alternative influences because I'd just come out of a really pop band.
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So like I wasn't brave enough to kind of make those choices yet.
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>> You felt like the toe was wagging the dog a little bit. >> Absolutely. Yeah.
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Um, and also, you know, every session I was getting in, I was getting pulled to a certain direction of, no pun intended, to to how they wanted me to to be in sound.
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Um, and you know, when you're going out on your own and you don't have any experience like that, you do, >> doesn't matter how opinionated you are, you do rely on people around you to to help, you know, kind of um uh fill out the puzzle.
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And and I think sometimes I was maybe getting pulled in the wrong direction a little bit on that first record.
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I think I just hadn't worked out who I was as an artist or even who I really wanted to be.
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really wanted to be. I don't think >> I think it's a really unique and and and could be a challenging situation also to leave an environment where you have really strong relationships with there's five of you and then you all decide to go your separate ways and then how do
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you not look left and right every now and then and think like well they're already running and they've got an album out and what's going on and you know were there moments where you sort of felt a little frozen like like I I need this to be right before I even do this? It felt more like honestly like I
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It felt more like honestly like I was just there was a time where I was just treading water or sprinting on the spot and not really moving anywhere.
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There was definitely a lot of like um passion and like intention behind what I was doing, but it was just the whole thing was such a jumble and such a turbulent time in my life for so many different reasons.
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Um, and then where I got to in favor in the future, I felt I felt that did feel like it knew who it was and it had a stronger identity and it was >> it definitely stood out amongst the albums of your of your peers and your friends.
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You you definitely were like that's Louis. >> Mhm. I hope so. I hope so.
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Those things, you know, like growing up in the north of England and having those slightly more alternative references were always an important part for me, even in the band.
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Um, but there's still an element of it kind of being dumbed down, you know, you cuz >> you kind of just go with the crowd a little bit, especially when you're in the when you're in a band. And also, you know what?
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Like great alternative music sometimes can be a pretentious space.
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So, when you come from one direction and make the music that you should not be making, you know, it um sometimes Yeah.
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From a confidence level, it takes a bit of balls to do that. >> Yeah, it does. It does for sure.
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And I can see why you there might be some concern, some imposter syndrome there coming from one room to another.
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None of that on this record whatsoever. It really glides. >> Thank you, man. It really glides. Thank you.
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>> You know, um just before you came in, >> uh I was playing Sunflowers.
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>> It's a breeze of a record, dude.
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It's the kind of song it feels like it's written itself.
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And I know that that's probably a little out of your comfort zone, but it's anchors the album.
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Sunflowers was a really really interesting um moment in the process because at this point I think we'd done about a third of the record maybe half the record and that was a song that I was like late to the session that day.
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Maybe I just like woke up late or something.
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They'd already started on this little idea and they had a couple of references that really would make the story more interesting if I could remember them that I can't >> give us location though. Where were you?
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>> It was It was in It was in London. >> Oh, it's a UK one.
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It was in the UK and it was it was basically longing for Costa Rica.
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Costa Rica was already booked at this point.
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We knew we were going to go there. >> Yeah.
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>> So, it was kind of written with that feeling of I I I quite I struggled with that little writing session.
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We did four or five days and >> my head was in Costa Rica.
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I was just so excited to get there.
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I had this whole vision in my head of what it was going to bring to the project and stuff like that.
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>> But once we'd written Sunflowers, it felt like we'd opened a different pocket or another area to the record.
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Sonica that we hadn't done yet and lazy was written the next day and those two always kind of sat next to each other for me.
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Um, and Sunflowers was again one of those moments where >> you know the songs like Palaces that I would have always hoped would have been on this record [snorts] >> before I started making this record.
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Never in a million years would have I imagined a Sunflowers.
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It's quite a different kind of stoner kind of space.
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You know, it's got that kind of feel to it.
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>> A lot of space for you to try to overcompensate or under serve. Mhm.
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>> And what's beautiful about it because it it it the music and the arrangement in the song knows itself so well.
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It's not pushing anything and it's beautiful hearing you sit in that space. >> Yeah.
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I mean, musically, you know, I can't I can't take all the credit for that.
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Nico Ribster, who has produced the whole record, just been such an amazing, you know, it's so fulfilling to be around these people cuz like I I don't I don't, you know, I'm not a student at music. I'm all feel, right?
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you know, I'd fail a music test miserably, >> but >> being around that kind of genius, and he's just got this like kind of wacky, off-the-wall nature to him, and you can almost hear that in the way that he produces just added so much value and depth to the record.
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I'm really thankful for that, you know. >> Yeah.
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How did you find out what you wanted to say on this record?
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Where did when did you realize that, you know, you had something you wanted to say?
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Cuz people can make music and fill the gaps, no problem.
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But, you know, you want if you're a feel guy, >> then you got to feel what you're singing.
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Yeah, I spend all my life feeling often in me head like that.
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The the intention with this record was to be a better reflection of my personality because in in the past, especially the first two records or or or or parts of those first two records, they're quite gloomy and it's quite dark.
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It's quite emotionally heavy.
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Um, it's not really how I live my life, you know, like I've had some tough things to deal with, but I'm a glass half full kind of guy and there's always kind of some kind of positive punchline even in the darkest time.
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And I just wanted to I feel like I'd got the emotional weight on the previous records, but not quite found the light at the end of the tunnel.
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And that's kind of what this record really was about cuz I feel really really good in myself personally, professionally.
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And it's nice to feel like this, you know, it's an obvious thing to say, but especially professionally, it's such a high pressure job and to actually be enjoying it, you know, that's probably the reason why I started doing it.
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And >> you feel like the first time in your career, this is lofty, but but where you feel like it like the decision to carry on to make music to be an artist is entirely yours and it doesn't it's not beholden to how successful you are, whether the fans still love you or whether the industry gives a Does that make sense? >> No. Absolutely. Yeah.
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It's a a stupid thing to say cuz that's definitely was my I wanted to kind of claim some of that back and those feelings and those emotions and my intention for doing everything.
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You know, I my fans know I'm so so grateful for them and I always thank them as as often as I can.
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>> But yeah, you know, I wanted to try and that's why I took some time over this record because often I'm in this pressure cooker of, you know, we've got to deliver the record around this kind of time.
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It was nice to take the time and to have room to be able to make mistakes and find the edges of the record that that that I found that really fulfilling.
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It's the first time truthfully making [clears throat] my own record where I've kind of really enjoyed the process start to finish cuz previously as I said it's just there's a time restraint and there's pressure and have we got the single and you know there was just a different kind of momentum with this record that um that I felt really lucky for.
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I think that also was cuz it was a small team really small team that we worked with. Easy to be free.
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Move with freedom when there's not a lot of people around you pushing and pulling. >> Huh? >> Absolutely.
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And but also people that were willing to really build me up, fill me full of so much confidence.
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Nico Rib Shaw produced the record.
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And we've got Dave Gibson, Dave Snedden, >> Theo Hutchcraft, >> Joe Cross, Matty Wang, One Last Name, Rob Harvey. That was it. That was literally it.
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Um, so that was the first time where I'd had such a small team as well.
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And it felt a bit like a band, you know.
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It was that's kind of what I've always >> Harvey from the north of England. >> Yeah, man.
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You know, >> Harvey from the music. >> Yes. Yeah. I love Rob, man.
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Some writer, you know, some writer. >> What a vibe machine. >> Yeah, he's great. He's great. He's great. Really cool guy as well.
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Very very uh very northern. Very cool.
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>> Were you around when the music were happening first time around when they came out?
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I I I like I knew the name and like he mentioned it in a couple of sessions and then like after like the third time working with him I was like maybe I should go check this out.
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His hair it's like it's like mad. It's cool >> man.
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They just came out they were young and they came out and the racket they made and the it was psychedelic.
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It was >> and his vocal man. Yeah.
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I mean because the band made such a racket >> that he had to he had to anchor these songs and he had this power to his voice high and powerful >> and when yeah when he sings high it's like really angelic tone amongst Yeah.
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I thought it was really cool but no I I missed that at the time but um >> they called themselves the music nuts on these guys. >> Yeah, that's funny. >> Teenagers.
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What are you going to call yourselves? The music. out of here with that. >> I rate that. I rate that.
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That's young energy in it. >> That's so good.
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I mean that yeah it's great that you find your people and you get to do that and it's also great you get to you get to decide where to do it.
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I mean music studios are beautiful things.
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Long may they continue open more.
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Um but if and when you can in your life if you're a career artist go to Costa Rica or somewhere nice do it right once. At least once. >> Absolutely.
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I mean look when I was a young lad any of these kind of things I just used to think it was like some hippie dippy Like what difference really is where you write the record?
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Is it going to actually make a difference to the record? >> Yeah.
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And now now I've got a bit older, you know, and a bit more experienced, you see how naive that is.
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And and >> because you hear it in the music. >> I I I think so. And I hope so.
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I mean, look, we were all feeling really good.
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There was definitely a real sense of like kind of camaraderie, bit of a lad's trip, you know.
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Um, but really the intention was to just create this tranquility away from the noise and away from the pressure.
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And as I said that making the record previously has felt like this pressure cooker.
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I just wanted to try and eradicate that.
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And you you know the place that we were at it was like a real small surface town called Santa Terresa.
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>> Beautiful like really like slow pace to the way of living and it's just to you feel all the room.
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My life is I I feel like time is my biggest enemy. I'm always against it.
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Always always always especially also because you know I split my time between the UK, family in the UK, son lives in LA.
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[gasps] So, I yeah, I really I really wanted to just take the time and see what that meant for the record cuz as I said previously, it gave me room to to make mistakes and like that's where the real risk takingaking came from in this record is cuz we had time to do it.
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>> If you're making a record, you know, and and it's um and you need to do it quickly.
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There's no time to take risks.
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You need to be more clinical.
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So, it definitely all in I feel very very thankful for the process.
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I'm sure anyone listening is thinking of course it was great to write an album in Costa Rica.
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It was it was absolutely lovely but it just I the intention again for this record even though contrary to the current weather in England it want I wanted it to feel sunny.
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I wanted it to feel warm, light, positive etc.
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>> Um so you go to a place like it does half the heavy lifting you know >> it's proof of concept too.
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I mean you know you go to Costa Rica on the first album you may as well be anywhere because the pressure is going to follow you. >> It's a good point. Yeah definitely.
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I think it was the right the right time to kind of have that ambitious intention really. >> Yeah.
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Have you been able to now do you think that and it's everything in life is a journey. There's no arrival.
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But are you much further down the road in terms of being able to separate the 1. 0 for the 2.
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0 to to to accept that with success and everything that was laid out before you and all of this crazy headiness that you experienced in what, five, six years maybe >> that that can still exist and still be something and still be something to be proud of.
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But [snorts] I'm happy making these records.
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I'll make 50 of these records.
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Can you separate the two now? >> Now I can.
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I definitely struggle with that at first.
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Um I mean when when your only experience is at the level that One Direction was.
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It's a really difficult thing to navigate.
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Where do I sit in in the realms of all of that?
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You know, it never came from a place of arrogance or expectation or anything like that.
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But I would love to say that I have this completely new um definition of success.
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That that would be a lie. um a version of that.
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But truthfully, you know, like when the records when it charts and stuff like I'll of course I'll be looking at that.
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It's like human nature, I think, to look at those kind of things and but that will be a fleeting moment, you know?
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So the album will do what it does and then I'll go and tour and I'll feel that that's really like the proof is in the pudding.
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That's the moment for me tour. >> Yeah.
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>> Um so I'd be lying if I said I wasn't going to, you know, I didn't want it to be a commercial success. Of course I do.
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Those things are just less important to me now.
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>> Um, and it will be a fleeting moment.
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It'll be a thing of, you know, either great or not so great, move on, go on tour, forget about it, you know, and now that that's my happy place on tour >> where it charts is a bit more of an ego thing truthfully. Like that's the truth.
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But but the touring that just feels really authentic, really real, really legit in an industry that sometimes doesn't feel like that.
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I love I love to tour for that reason. >> Yeah. Yeah.
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Well, it's the closest you're going to get to seeing how people are responding to your truth. >> Absolutely. Yeah.
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>> And you write from you write from a truthful place. >> Yeah.
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I don't I'm not really very good any other way really.
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People often ask me, yeah, you know, I'm often quite vulnerable with me lyrics.
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It's kind of how I am as a person to be honest.
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I wear my heart on me sleeve.
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I don't struggle talking about me feelings.
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And I realize my mom used to call it a superpower, being able to talk about your feelings. And I agree with that.
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And I I I like to try and use that in my songwriting. Um especially as a man.
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I think it's important those things.
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You know, >> you know, you've well, you've lived an extraordinary life in so many different levels.
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You know, you've reached very high highs and achieved things that that that most people never dream of.
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And then of course, you've seen the other side, too.
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You've lost people around you that you love. We all do. It's a fact of life. Yeah.
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>> Um you know, grief is a part of the human experience.
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What have you learned about grief having come face to face with it in in in a very real way?
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just how individual it is.
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As you said, I've I've had I've had a couple of different experiences now.
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Um, you know, family and friends, and you naively think that the experience that you pre previously garnered from the grief that you'd had in the past, it's not relevant.
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Each thing feels so devastating.
21:28
You know, you think in the back of your mind, well, I've been through this a couple of times now.
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Maybe it will soften the blow. It absolutely doesn't.
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You know, it's different different feelings and different emotions.
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But I I just whenever I'm talking about grief, I feel very very very lucky that I was brought up in the way that I was that I do see the glass half full.
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It doesn't take much, you know, mental kind of procrastination for me to see the glass half full.
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That's how I do it instinctively.
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So that's what's helped me through the grief really is just >> forcing myself to always stay positive positive.
22:03
Um but also there's always been you know especially in my family it's been quite a lot of responsibility on my shoulders. I'm the oldest.
22:11
>> Um and that helped definitely responsibility definitely has helped me 10fold.
22:15
How does being responsible at a young age become something that you can be proud of being when so many people probably find themselves later in life sort of ruining that that kind of there are other people who who have to go through that experience and don't necessarily ask for it.
22:27
Yet the way you describe it it you feel comfortable and and and happy that that was the case.
22:32
>> It's all I've ever known.
22:32
Like as I said, I'm the oldest.
22:34
Um and and like even Ly who's the second um oldest, she's still I think seven years younger than me.
22:43
So it was always quite a big gap.
22:44
I was always older brother.
22:46
>> My mom used to work nights on occasion.
22:48
So you know I'd have to get the kids ready for school and take them to school and all that kind of stuff.
22:51
So I definitely had a bit of a crash course in in a little bit more responsibility than say your average 15, 16, 17 year old.
22:59
>> But it's that that's who I am.
22:59
That's where I get me comfort.
23:01
That's where that's like that's my true purpose outside of music is >> hopefully to be someone you can you know rely on emotionally.
23:10
>> You like to take care of people. >> I do. Yeah. Yeah, I do. I do.
23:12
Which is ironic cuz I'm actually I'm so bad with my phone.
23:17
I'm real bad in like I I struggle with it.
23:20
The phone is often the enemy for me.
23:22
Can often be stress and work etc. you know.
23:24
Um, but contrary to that, yeah, being in person and having, you know, really kind of emotive and constructive conversations, I I I enjoy that.
23:36
I got a lot of benefit from that.
23:37
>> What's important to you about the people that you let into your life?
23:39
What What are the key How old are you now, Louis? If I if I ask. >> 34. >> Okay.
23:45
No, that's >> hesitant answering that. Yeah, >> you look great. >> Thank you.
23:49
uh you've got you've got you know you've got some road under your feet and um you've made friends and lost friends and kept friends and let friends go and that's just life.
23:55
What's important to you do you think as you as you mature that what are you looking for in people that that are keepers?
24:02
>> It's kind of always been the same for me. Authenticity. Authenticity.
24:03
Like I I'd like to listen everyone says that they're good at this but I like to think I'm quite good at smelling a rat.
24:10
I just like authenticity and actually you know sometimes and just just just honesty.
24:15
I find it really refreshing, you know.
24:18
Um, and it's something that I definitely strive to do more and more.
24:22
That is like a a daily struggle to be as honest as you possibly can every single day.
24:27
>> How do you do that and not hurt people's feelings?
24:29
>> I like uh >> maybe I overexlain a little bit.
24:31
I like I like I like to think that I have enough time to kind of soften the blow a little bit, but don't get me wrong, I'm also the kind of person that occasionally get myself into a thing where I'm like, >> I don't need to be that honest.
24:43
I've made my life a little bit more difficult there, you know?
24:46
Um, but for the most part, it makes life a little bit easier, I suppose.
24:51
>> I was so sad to hear about your friend.
24:55
The world was it was it's a tragedy.
24:58
>> Um, and I I never really got a chance to spend time with him like this.
25:00
Um, but he seemed like a real human.
25:04
>> Like a real lovely man.
25:05
>> Like a real Yeah, like a real one.
25:07
>> I hope this is doesn't come across like this is like in no way derogatory and only endearing, but he was a puppy dog, man.
25:13
Just like the sweetest, most lovely guy like that.
25:15
Did you get a chance to write about him on this record?
25:17
Does he make it into music?
25:19
>> Listen, when when something like that happens in your life, it's really difficult to write anything else.
25:23
I remember I remember this the first time that I experienced grief.
25:28
[clears throat] >> How can you write a love song when when you're feeling the feelings that you're feeling?
25:33
It feels so unimportant to everything that's going around in your head.
25:36
So yeah, there are definitely moments where I've written about him kind of directly and then other moments that are a bit more subconscious, but it's also not something I want to overexlain cuz like the so look I mean it won't be too hard for people to join the dots but you know those kind of songs >> there's a song there's definitely a song.
25:56
Yeah, that song or those type of songs it that should be completely open to interpretation because I do think you know they have potential to heal those songs.
26:05
So I I wouldn't want to overexlain anything like that.
26:09
People will find what they need in that kind of feeling you know.
26:12
>> So when I listen to Dark to Light >> um I was deeply moved by that song. >> Okay. Thank you.
26:17
And I only I only share that with you because I I want you to know that as a writer, you really successfully captured that feeling. >> I hope so, man.
26:27
I really appreciate that cuz it like it's a really intimidating concept to entertain, you know, definitely cuz there aren't enough words really to to explain me love like that.
26:40
But I I Yeah, I'm It certainly makes me feel.
26:42
It certainly is one of the songs on the record that pretty much every time I hear it, there'll be a moment where I get goosebumps and drift off in my head and have a little think about it.
26:49
It'll probably be a challenging one to do live, but it is still one that I want to do live.
26:53
>> I can imagine listening to that song that there was moments when you were writing that or listening back to that knowing that it it had taken life of its own and it ex it existed and was going to exist.
27:01
That that was an emotional moment. >> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.
27:03
Again, it feels it that feels like a very authentic snapshot to my love. >> Love, man.
27:10
God, it's a risk and it [snorts] we got to take it every single time.
27:15
But it is a it is a real it's it's one of the big risks in life. >> Yeah.
27:18
It wouldn't mean anything if it wasn't anything if it wasn't.
27:19
So, let's talk a little bit about how that word has changed for you because again, you've experienced it in so many different ways.
27:26
You have the love as a parent, which is unbreakable and above all else.
27:29
It's crazy how that just becomes something for me. I >> just like whoa.
27:33
And then you have the the the love of people that you've never even met before that that don't really know who you truly are.
27:38
know who you truly are. How does that sort of shape the concept of love when you're a kid and then the whole world is screaming how much they love you and you're like wait a minute do I know it sort of speaks to what you did in the first few years of taking your time like what does the word love and what do I love right
27:51
>> I've always looked at the fans as like one person I think that psychologically is easier for me to digest >> that's brilliant I say I've never heard anyone put it that way before and I love that >> it's personal the whole relationship feels personal that's why it feels like a specific person feels like >> one of me best mates someone that's always here for me when I need them. Look, it's kind of like a twopronged
28:13
Look, it's kind of like a twopronged thing where like, you know, I appreciate that maybe if I wasn't in that band, I might not quite get as much love.
28:19
You know, that's just the nature of what it is.
28:22
But at the same time, even though it kind of lives in that whole world, it still feels utterly authentic between both of us.
28:29
Um, and that's really beautiful.
28:32
And that's why I love the live moments.
28:33
That's why I love those live spaces because they feel what I why I need them.
28:38
There are moments like I've had some I wouldn't quite call them car crash, but I've had some bad shows where like I've been struggling vocally and I I've walk off stage feeling like some kind of like Olympian.
28:49
I've got these people on site tenfold and I'm maybe when I'm not even singing that great and maybe that's why they're giving me that extra energy at that time.
28:57
There's just this real protective nature over over each of us I think.
29:01
Um, and and also something that I think doesn't get spoke about enough.
29:06
These people are so so passionate at what they do.
29:10
I for a while now, and I haven't quite found the right way to integrate it properly into my world, but more fans should work in music, man.
29:16
Like that is like like yes.
29:22
Oh, I always wanted one of them.
29:24
>> That's a [laughter] bar right there.
29:26
>> I always wanted one of them.
29:26
I mean, look like these these people live and breathe these projects.
29:29
It's so important to them and and and you know like at least my feeling with the fans this is like a mutual endeavor.
29:35
We're doing this together.
29:37
I wouldn't do half I wouldn't be able to do any of this without them, you know.
29:41
>> So, and also the young minds young minds that haven't been too tainted yet and they do it just for the passion. There's so much. >> Sure. It's beautiful.
29:51
>> As I said, you know, there can be a side of the industry that occasionally feels a little artificial. Um >> just a little. >> Yeah. Just a tiny bit.
29:57
Um, and those things I think at least for me that whole concept of having more fans in music.
30:03
I've got a couple of people that work with me like loosely.
30:05
Um, but I'm trying to find more ways to integrate them like that cuz you know it's like it's like so the album this album. >> Yeah.
30:16
>> I know for a fact like when I next go into wherever it might be I'm trying to think like it might even it maybe even the record label like they they shower people with gifts. Yeah.
30:26
They're sending gifts to radio.
30:28
They're sending gifts to me record label.
30:30
They're sending gifts to press, literally buttering up, buttering them up so I look good.
30:34
It's like it's like and they're very ve their their innovation, not just buying gifts cuz that is a smart move, but their their innovation of uh how to do things and and and >> the relationships evolved big time.
30:50
>> I feel very very very thankful.
30:50
I've always worried that listen, I've heard the same thing said about fans a million times.
30:56
It always feels really cliche these kind of things, but my love for them is it's it's unbreakable like that.
31:02
It's just I always call it a codependency. That's what it is.
31:04
I I I >> you know, if I was a like I often think about footballers or any sportsman if you're not playing well, your own fans will chat about you. >> Oh yeah. >> Like that is heavy. Oh yeah.
31:17
>> Like if I was in that kind of business, I just wouldn't I would the pressure would be too much for me.
31:21
I would not be able to do it.
31:22
So having that the pressure of the outside world is enough, but when I have those live space and those live moments, it really is like our little palace.
31:30
It's our little space that nobody can get into.
31:32
And there's something really like us against the world about that.
31:35
I love the anarchy in that, you know.
31:37
>> You still playing football? Social football. >> Yeah. Not enough. Not enough.
31:39
I'll still call myself a semi-pro. Yeah. Not enough.
31:44
I played in a charity game uh summer last year, which to be honest, I smoke too much these days. I am desperately unfit.
31:50
Well, you smoke cigarettes. >> Yeah. And weed. Yeah.
31:55
I mean, the weed Well, I mean, I get that, but he's still smoking Taylor. >> Yeah. Yeah. Which is not good.
31:58
I'm trying I I'm trying to cut down, but I think >> that's a M's game.
32:02
And I say that as someone who smoked for a long, long time. It >> is, man.
32:06
>> You know, the minute that you stop doing that that you actually realize like what the Like, this is just nothing but bad for me.
32:12
It is literally the definition of of habitual. And I get it.
32:17
I was addicted for decades and then I stopped.
32:19
And when when I look back on it now, I'm like, "Oh, was that about?" Like, >> yeah. Yeah.
32:24
It's it's it's a tough one to kick.
32:26
I've never really been overly pressed about trying to kick it as a habit, really.
32:29
Um, but I'm getting there.
32:31
I'm getting to that age where I am a bit more conscious of that. Weed, I'm not so sure.
32:34
I think that might be in my life forever, but we'll [laughter] see.
32:38
>> When did you start smoking weed?
32:40
>> I started smoking weed first.
32:40
I actually used to despise cigarettes. I despise them.
32:43
I was the kind of guy that would like nick it out of my friend's mouth and throw it on the floor.
32:46
Like if someone did that to me now, I head, man. I'd be fuming. >> Yeah.
32:52
Um, but then I think I was around 18 or 19. No, I was about 19.
32:55
I think I've been in the band about a year.
32:58
I'd smoked a little bit school, but just the odd doo.
33:02
>> All right, I got to I got to dive in on this, right?
33:04
Let's just zero in on this for a second, because weed is like whatever. Like it's not whatever.
33:09
Obviously, people think it's a gateway drug, but out here in in LA, it's legal. >> Y >> So, um So, okay.
33:13
So you are going even a year into the band, you are going from one crazy nutty situation to another. >> Mhm.
33:26
>> And the and there's thousands of people everywhere you go. >> Mhm.
33:29
>> And you're like, you know what's going to help me? Weed. >> Yes.
33:33
>> How is how >> it's a match made in heaven.
33:34
>> it's a match made in heaven. How do how do you function as someone where all eyes are on them and you have to work at the highest level because it's all happening so fast whilst also developing um you know a weed habit >> experience I suppose [laughter]
33:52
that's all I could put it down to >> then you weren't experienced so just I mean were there moments when you just praying out you're like that that wasn't that wasn't a good move >> there definitely was a good >> I shouldn't have had a joint before I went on Good Morning America that was not a Yeah. Yeah. There's Listen, actually, Yeah.
34:05
There's Listen, actually, there's still that odd occasion.
34:06
I can't I think I was was it can was either Canada or Australia. Yeah.
34:11
I just had a joy and it was like I was on morning TV.
34:15
I was thinking I'm going to get absolutely trashed for this.
34:16
Um but I just for me it it it my life is so noisy, you know, and I just I I've always been the kind of person who takes a lot of comfort in the quiet times to be honest.
34:31
>> I think that's the nature of growing up in a big family.
34:32
you kind of need to, you know, my corner. >> Yeah, exactly.
34:35
Um, so it just it's just Yeah, it's always been definitely a a help in this like kind of crazy world.
34:44
And it also that that I mean that helps me with glass half full, too. >> For sure. >> For sure.
34:50
Once I've had a joint, everything's going to be all right.
34:54
>> It blows my mind, man, that you're on a bus driving past 10,000 people into a stadium and you're just like burning one down. Like, what the >> Yeah. Yeah.
35:01
Yeah, but you got once you build the experience, you got like a lot of those One Direction shows, in fact, all of them. Never mind a lot. Like all of them.
35:09
>> Um, yeah, I'd have a couple of joints before and like these days I won't these [laughter] days before a show I won't before a show.
35:15
And I'm always I love it's always a really nice joint after a show.
35:20
But in the band, yeah, there was that was just the way that it was.
35:22
I'm not going to lie though, [snorts] >> even the strongest weed in the world, >> you walk out to a stadium and the crowd's like, "We played it."
35:30
Yeah, it slaps you around the face.
35:33
>> Pulling a whitey in front of 80,000 people.
35:35
>> No, never quite got there.
35:35
Never quite got there, which is actually Yeah, I'm I'm pretty happy about that. >> You proud of that.
35:41
>> Actually, I am very proud of that fact. >> I am.
35:44
>> I just love that, man.
35:44
I just love the idea of you being like cuz you know, everyone would think that there's this high pressure and everyone's just back there like psyching themselves to the point of absolute anxiety attack and you're like, "No, just give me a joint. I'll be fine." >> Absolutely.
35:53
Do you know what that that was a kind of good um way of describing One Direction.
35:57
The most calm people were the guys in the band.
36:00
Everyone else was flapping and stressy all the time whereas >> apart from the weed, how did you manage that as a band while everyone else is around you looking at their clock every 3 seconds and the five of you did?
36:09
And I and I'm going to give you this 100% agree with you.
36:14
Always came across like there's 100,000 people out there boys and you're like safe. [laughter] I love that. I love that. Um I don't know really.
36:24
I think I think having each other was a massive thing that and and >> the camaraderie that comes with that. >> Yeah.
36:32
>> You know, like like I don't know.
36:32
I'm picturing like my old manager like being stressed at us cuz maybe we were supposed to be on live TV in 10 minutes or whatever and you know, we're just like we'll be all right. We'll be all right.
36:42
I think I think when you've got that when you move as a group and as a unit like that >> Yeah.
36:47
Uh yeah, it's uh there was definitely a time in the band where that kind of bubble that we surrounded ourselves in just in the band, it was impenetrable like that.
36:54
Even the pressure it was we just I think cuz we had each other's back.
36:59
But also the nature of the band, we made mistakes all the time.
37:02
Our fans liked that stuff.
37:02
You know, if we forgot lyrics, if we fell over on stage, so it it meant that >> the things to get stressy about, >> they weren't that stressy cuz if we made those kind of mistakes, it was kind of all right.
37:14
We're seeing that now develop into the K-pop industry to some degree.
37:18
We're seeing bands that used to come out and they'd be incredibly everything was just completely buttoned up.
37:21
And I mean some of the videos you see now some of these groups cuz I've been doing quite a bit of work in the K-pop space and so been watching some various clips and stuff and you see them like position themselves in the wrong way and not know where they're going and the fans love it.
37:33
They just think it's in fact they call you better for it. >> Definitely.
37:35
It's it's um especially on a One Direction level that was what made people come to multiple shows.
37:39
There was a feeling of impromptu that that you know different things could happen.
37:42
Um, and I also think that's what we stood for as a band.
37:45
We weren't the kind of band that we'd like for wearing the same outfits, dancing, looking like robots.
37:51
It felt hopefully authentic.
37:53
>> Man, we are uh this is so such a brilliant time to catch up because, you know, you may have been a little bit um slower to get going, but you have three albums out now and a bunch of songs. Isn't it funny?
38:04
It all works out in the end. >> It does. Yeah. Luckily. Luckily.
38:07
>> You know, like you're keeping pace and doing your own thing and you've developed your own thing.
38:09
Um, which leads us to live.
38:10
You know, you're a bonafide arena headliner.
38:12
you know, you have always maintained a really strong relationship with your fans.
38:16
You sell hard tickets and you do it internationally and globally.
38:20
>> Um, that's a beautiful, beautiful thing.
38:22
>> I feel very very lucky for that.
38:22
I mean, as I said, always my time in One Direction.
38:25
That was my favorite thing, the live shows, but you don't know what how those how that's going to look for me on my own and especially on a global level, you know.
38:32
So, I feel very very thankful to be able to tour at the level that I do.
38:37
And it's now nice to know that I can.
38:39
You know, before going out on that first tour, I was just crossing my fingers and hoping for the best.
38:42
I've never done this before, man.
38:44
This sounds utterly intimidating.
38:47
>> The last album felt like a proof of concept to you. Like, you know what? >> Absolutely.
38:50
That that that's also what really influenced this record, to be honest, is the confidence that I built up through that.
38:54
It it >> it meant that there was no like, of course, there's still the occasional bit of self-doubt or procrastination or whatever, but there was very little room for that.
39:03
Night after night, you're feeling, you know, this experience and you're feeling this energy off people.
39:08
It's really difficult to keep saying, "Well, maybe I can't do this."
39:10
You know, eventually you go, "Well, it certainly looks like I can."
39:14
>> No, this is definitely not a I can't do this album.
39:17
>> No, >> this is I can't wait to do this album. >> Yeah.
39:19
And you know, even even like even during the promotion part of it, like I truthfully, >> it's not my favorite thing to do.
39:24
Not this this is this is obviously top tier. You know this already.
39:30
>> You're not surprising anyone when you say do impress is a bit of a dance around the fountain.
39:34
around the fountain. historically this time >> I I feel I'm like this is the first time where I feel like okay let's show this record off let's talk about it let's feel good about it like they just that the there was an element of ticking the box in the past of doing the promo I
39:48
knew I needed to do it >> but also you were put through a like like hit like a blender of promo for 5 years I mean you guys did I felt like it was like show show album promo >> yeah yeah absolutely yeah it was it was non-stop like that um but it was also it was you know, it was such a runaway train. What else you going to do? You
40:05
What else you going to do?
40:05
You got to keep moving with it, you know.
40:08
>> Um, but yeah, this time around I just it feels good to show it off.
40:11
It feels good to be in these spaces, talk about it and and and actually mean it when I say I'm really really proud of this record.
40:16
You know, >> there's so many great songs on here, mate.
40:19
Palaces, as we already know, is beautiful.
40:21
Um, do you have a particular favorite on the record that you're listening to, Ryan, that you keep coming back to?
40:26
>> Palaces is definitely up there.
40:26
That was like like you know if I if I was left to my own devices and stopped thinking that you need light and shade in a record like I just put 12 palaces on the record like I that's my kind of song.
40:39
>> Isn't there a future where that exists?
40:40
I mean isn't that the beauty to be [clears throat] able to think like okay I can I can come back to that but would it be nice to sit in that space for a bit? >> Yes.
40:47
However, I it was something I entertained for this record and I I I feel like I could have made that record.
40:54
[clears throat] But what I didn't want it to do, I wanted this whole thing to feel ambitious and and and not getting too preoccupied with this whole, you know, identity thing.
41:03
I didn't want it to be Faith in the Future 2. 0.
41:05
That that was not that wasn't very exciting to me.
41:08
And even though I and I also think that that's what my fans probably thought they were going to get.
41:13
you're going to go further down that route, >> which I may well tap back into that.
41:16
And there's, you know, there's moments like Palaces that definitely kind of allude to that.
41:21
But what I was most interested in with this record was I have only ever really painted with two or three different colors.
41:29
>> Let's see what happens if I have the full color palette, you know, and like there was something really really fulfilling about that idea.
41:36
>> It's a really big modern pop record. Thank you, man.
41:39
>> It's your version of pop, I guess, the way you always always wanted to do it. >> Yeah, absolutely.
41:43
And I think I I I had it was so it was cliche, right?
41:45
You leave a pop band and you try and be as alternative as you possibly can.
41:49
But unfortunately, I I played into that cliche or at least mentally in my head that I was, you know, I had such a mission of proving who I who I was all the while just kind of denying how I got where I got, you know, and and and >> the idea of like something really centrally pop was like terrifying to me.
42:07
Like I just I thought that idea you just especially when you've come from a band like One Direction, you don't want to get put back in that box.
42:14
I'm immensely proud of One Direction.
42:17
It goes without saying, but you know, it was it was very pop or at least the first three records in particular.
42:23
>> Um so yeah, I I this record was about being brave and leaning into those things that in the past I might have felt, well, is that cool enough?
42:33
Does that say enough about me as an artist?
42:37
You know, >> it's one of those things that like I mean and remove the the whole obvious observation that like people who want to be cool never be all that blah blah blah.
42:44
We all get our head on it.
42:46
>> But but the but you're right.
42:46
The point is like what the story you've told me already today is this is what I like. This is what I became. >> Mhm.
42:57
>> Now, how do I take the two things and make sense of both of them? >> Really well put. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.
43:03
And that and that's where when I look back at this record and I just did a full listen down before I came here made me feel really good.
43:08
That's what makes me really proud is that it does it feels like somehow I connected the dots and there was a definitely a time whereas I didn't think that those two things could work together.
43:18
work together. I felt like it had to be either or >> which I know is naive but I think when you're in the center of it and you know it's all this is going on in your head you obviously it's like with a magnifying glass you know this intensifies >> but you know songs like Imposter a good
43:32
example really pop melody >> y >> but it's got an edge to it you know it's got a kind of eeriness a spookiness to it >> it's all still there mate is all still there >> yeah absolutely absolutely and that that's what makes me feel really good I I I've definitely got more melodic it kind of feel on this record. And that's kind
43:49
And that's kind of um going back to the statement that said that I said before, that's the record that I always deserve is having enough melody on there.
43:58
And having stop trying to prove a point and just paint, you know?
44:03
>> I love that you use the word deserve as well because it's like it it puts some selfworth in there.
44:07
Like >> that's a new thing for me too to be honest. Yeah. Yeah.
44:10
I I I had to I had to kind of get there in my head.
44:14
>> How'd you do that >> tour? I I I don't really know.
44:16
I can't think of any other thing that's been even 1% as powerful as that.
44:21
As I said, it's just undeniable.
44:24
Like look, you only really obviously occasionally you look further back, but most of the show lives in the first six rows, you know, and when you're looking at what it means to people, >> you know, I used to struggle saying to say things like um when you look at the importance of this show to someone like cuz it sounds arrogant, it sounds shitty, you know.
44:48
I was in those spaces and I watched people I watched their reaction and I knew how important it was to me.
44:54
[snorts] It was important.
44:54
It was important for both of us to share that time and share those moments.
44:59
How many incredible music memories have we got as a fan?
45:03
Of course, we would deem them important.
45:05
>> And my thing is music, you know, if you if you love something, it loves you back. AB: >> Absolutely, man. Absolutely. I love that. Definitely. Definitely.
45:11
Definitely feels like the relationship I've got with my fans for sure. Um Yeah.
45:14
So those, you know, that that feeling and and and seeing the genuine importance and feeling my own importance within those kind of ideas, it just left it left me no room but to like and now I feel in a place where I'm worthy and I'm happy to say that that those things, you know, whereas there was the longest time where I wasn't really I just I just it was just such a such a tough question to answer in my head. Am I worthy for this?
45:42
You know, do I deserve this?
45:42
Truthfully, you know, [clears throat] the diff that's where imposter came from.
45:47
It's obviously a playful take on it, but I've always kind of suff suffered from imposter syndrome.
45:52
And how do you not when you grow up in a place like Doncaster that doesn't have, you know, many heroes to aspire to?
45:58
You didn't really do music too much as a kid.
46:00
You went an audition for a talent show and then you get put in a band as big as One Direction.
46:06
How could I possibly not have imposter syndrome?
46:09
because it it it's it's so out of the ordinary and there are hundreds of thousands millions of incredible singers out there that never make it.
46:18
So, how how could I how could I put me feet up and go, you know what?
46:22
Yeah, I definitely I definitely do deserve all this.
46:24
So, I think there's there there is this like >> I think it comes from a little place of guilt maybe as well, you know, >> that place. >> Yeah, I think so.
46:32
But yeah, I I I definitely feel I definitely feel worthy.
46:36
I'm definitely feeling really really comfortable, but I'm also not underestimating how out of the ordinary it is.
46:42
>> You just want to work for it now. >> Exactly that. Exactly.
46:45
>> Like when it's given to you and you spend 5 years chasing around the world, you're just working to keep your head above water.
46:49
But now it's like I actually want to promote my record.
46:52
I actually want to work for this life. >> Yeah. Absolutely.
46:56
>> Yeah. Absolutely. And you're right on time actually as a fan and as but also as somebody as a human being because you got a 10-year-old who's looking to you now as we as we go full circle this conversation who's like okay >> is he going to is he going to wake up when he's 16 and go dad is really famous
47:11
I'm not quite sure why >> or dad's really famous cuz he works really hard he loves it and he cares >> the latter hopefully >> right >> yeah yeah um yeah the older he gets the more he kind of becomes a little bit more aware of that which I wish I could shield it more from it But there is an inevitable kind of nature to that, you know. >> Yeah. But he when he sees the mechanics >> Yeah.
47:29
But he when he sees the mechanics of work, he can see it's the right machine working.
47:33
>> That's a really good point. Yeah. Hopefully. Hopefully.
47:34
And he definitely sees my passion and love for it. For sure.
47:38
Um, so yeah, hopefully that'll teach him a good little life lesson.
47:43
>> This is a good time in your life. >> Yeah, really.
47:45
Well, and also, you know, going back to me saying this is the record I always deserve to make or whatever.
47:50
This is also the right time for all of this.
47:53
It feels like the stars are aligning for me. Me confidence is good. I feel good post tour.
47:56
Sonically, I feel like this record's got more depth than we've ever had in the past.
48:00
It just it feels like everything I've been working really really hard to get to it.
48:08
And there was definitely times where I wondered what they'd be like at the end of the tunnel. I I I see it now.
48:10
And that that is that's a really beautiful kind of relief.
48:19
>> Thanks for coming in, bro.
48:20
>> Thanks for having me, man. I really enjoyed this. It was a good chat. >> We do it again. Yeah, definitely. >> All right, man.