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Is that the spiciest thing you've ever eaten? Oh, yeah. That's not nice.
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Why are you doing this to me?
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Hey, what's going on everybody?
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From First We Feast, I'm Sean Evans and you're watching Hot Ones.
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It's the show with hot questions and even hotter wings.
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And today we're joined by Louis Theroux.
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He's a BAFTA award-winning documentarian and journalist who for decades has immersed himself in some of the most dangerous, complicated, and controversial aspects of the human experience.
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And this fall he has a series of six interviews with well-known personalities coming to the BBC.
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Louis Theroux, welcome to the show. Thank you for having me.
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How are you around spicy food before we get started?
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I'd like to think I'm pretty good.
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Uh, but that feels like I'm setting myself up to fail if I say that.
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So, I want to play things down and say average. Here we go. Nice.
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If I was eating purely for pleasure, that's pretty good.
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I'm As you know, I'm thinking about it.
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I'm like, I'll probably say that's fine.
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I wouldn't want to go much over that. And yet here we are.
1:33
So, one of the unique things about your upcoming interview series is that you're meeting your guest where they are in their life.
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You know, having a sit-down conversation with champion boxer Anthony Joshua immediately following a fight.
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As someone with a studio show, I'm curious.
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What do you think is gained by setting the interviews in the natural habitat of your guests? Okay, good question.
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I think you know, my background is documentary making.
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And I started out working for a documentary filmmaker called Michael Moore and he famously made a a movie called Roger and Me and he came out of a verite filmmaking tradition where you're sort of fly-on-the-wall, right?
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And you just sort of observe people in their natural habitat.
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Almost a little bit like an anthropologist would, like studying a tribe or something.
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And you just see people when they're not on, right? They're not performing.
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And the idea is that as the days go by you see a more natural presentation.
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You see someone uh coming across as themselves as opposed to sort of a curated version.
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There's both the the behind-the-scenes component of, you know, Anthony Joshua in the dressing room, but there's also a master interview component where you sort of see them in a more composed setting. The garlic I like.
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There's something reassuring about the color.
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But you seem to be into it. You must like the sauce. hungry. I know, me too. All right, good.
3:03
Without thinking about it too hard, is there a lifestyle or belief system outside of your own that you found yourself being most wooed by when you've spent so much time in the belly of it? Okay.
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Um I don't know why but my mind went to polyamory. Yeah.
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You know what that is, right?
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Yeah, yeah, you had the whipped cream like rubbed all over you at the You were at the sanctuary. it. Yeah, yeah. Consensual non-monogamy.
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I I I, you know, I felt like I get it.
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Like it when you start to analyze it uh in certain respects monogamy seems weirder.
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You know, especially if we live as we now, you know, we live hopefully to be 90-plus years old, right? All being well.
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And now they're talking about maybe being, I don't know if you're following these tech bros who are We're we're going to live to be 300.
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Can you imagine being married to the same person for like 280 years?
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Um it feels like it would start you'd start craving something else on the menu, figuratively speaking.
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So, that all made sense to you.
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So, there was So, I sort of thought, yeah, that that I except for the sexual jealousy part, which I think would make my head explode. Tasty. That's the best you got? Come on.
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I'll remember you said that. I like Thai food. Mhm.
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And a jungle curry that they do at a restaurant in Los Angeles.
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It became a a ritual for a while, once a year.
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And then the third year I was like, why are we doing this to ourselves? Right. You know what I mean?
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Like being married for 110 years or something, you know?
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Yeah, a very story relationship.
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it lasted, but we got to go our separate ways.
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So, I've heard you discuss the influence of being a dual citizen of Britain and the US and the impact that it's had on your work.
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What superpowers do you think that grants you working on either side of the pond?
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I think we're not seen as threatening.
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You know, when I arrive, I could go up to Idaho.
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In fact, I have gone up to Idaho to Mountain Mike to meet a militiaman who sort of thinks that the federal government is going to is satanic and is going to come and invade and take his guns away and and he's like, well, hello there.
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You know, well, so you've come all the way from across the pond.
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You know, and it's sort of this friendly like I've arrived like a kind of visitary visiting dignitary.
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You know, and this sort of imposing forbidding figure is softened towards me. That makes sense to me. It's beautiful. Los Calientes.
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This says first we feast on it, which suggests it might be one of your ones. Yeah, story checks out.
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Yeah, we actually do make this one.
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But, you know what, Louis, if you don't like it, you can let me know. It's disgusting. Yeah, it's okay. No. It tastes very nice. Mhm.
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A little bit hotter than the last one, but not overwhelming for you. Yeah. What do you think? Pretty good, right? Very good. I say very good.
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It's like me reviewing one of my own podcasts. Exactly. 10 out of 10.
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I like the skinny guy with the glasses.
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I want to see more of him.
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From where you sit, I'm curious, what's your take on the current landscape of documentaries?
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Because on one hand, there seem to be more made now than ever before, but there is this sort of palpable shift towards, you know, true crime documentaries or documentaries about celebrities that are produced and commissioned by the celebrity. Mhm.
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Ethically, it's more complicated because in some cases you have big stars executing their own programs um or you know, producing them with their own production companies.
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You have payoffs or pay payments to dubious characters.
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But the thing is is if I'm enjoying what I'm watching, I'm a happy man.
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Yeah, what does it matter? You know what I mean? Mhm.
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And I I get that where does it all lead?
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And I think all those conversations need to be had.
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Like, you know, like if you don't want to be incentivizing a criminal to do crime so that they can then Sell a series to Netflix, right?
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If I just kill one more person, I'll get my Netflix deal.
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That was in bad taste, wasn't it? No, no.
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Nothing Anything goes on this show.
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You blame it on the wings.
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Blame it on the wings, Louis.
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It's They're creeping up a bit on me. You know what I mean?
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I'm getting an after blast.
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There's a cumulative effect to it. It's going on here. here.
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There's a It's a sort of a low drone of um tongue tongue tongue activity. Warmth. Growing warmth.
7:28
But so, you of the recent stream-like kind of ones like Wild Wild Country, The Jinx, Last Dance, this new Beckham one, Yeah.
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Tinder Swindler, Yeah, those are all kind of bangers.
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They're all kind of awesome, yeah.
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And you're like, give me more. Cliffhanger, rack it up.
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Next one, you know what I mean?
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That makes sense to me, Louie.
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Are you ready to move on to the halfway point?
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Yeah, I might need a little sip of What do you suggest? Like the milk?
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I think the milk is probably the best for you.
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I'm not like You know, I'm not I'm trouble.
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Does it sound like I'm in trouble? I'm not. Excuse me.
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You can't always tell right off the bat, can you? Don't overthink it. going back in on that.
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You It is hot, but you're you feel good about it.
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But I thought I was supposed to have more than one bite. No, no. I respect it.
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I'm going right with you, yeah. It's quite hot. That is quite hot. Mhm. Yeah. Yeah, they're not lying. feel it on my lips.
8:32
Yeah, this show is like really starting to not even halfway. It is halfway. You are exactly halfway.
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Well, I haven't thought of it.
8:41
Yeah, we are now at at the exact halfway point. And you're doing great.
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You're doing great, Louie.
8:47
As someone who clearly sees the value in talking to subjects with viewpoints that are different than your own, what's your take on the growing backlash against platforming certain ideas or people?
8:56
I have to I answer an intelligent and kind of complex question while having my mouth the show, yeah. That's the show. Uh good question. Oh jeez.
9:15
Um platforming is uh something that you should be aware of. And um Here's the thing.
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There's a difference between giving someone a platform, i. e.
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a megaphone, you know, Here's Here's an audience, 10 million people. Have at it. Say what you like.
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And on that's on one hand, and on the other hand, you're asking questions.
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You're You are attempt to impose a shape to what what takes place.
9:40
You know, good journalism is not necessarily like a platform.
9:45
And and I and I think by the way like that is a I made a joke about it, but it's a good question and um something that I need to be conscious of like over the years I've made programs about neo-Nazis, um religious cults, you know, to a great extent I think due to the internet and social media, lone actors like people who would have been like fringe voices, guys who would have been out in a log cabin somewhere in in a wood somewhere.
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Um maybe kind of like writing their own newsletters, you know, and and and sending them out in brown paper bags.
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Now those guys have um or maybe shortwave radio, but now those people have uh social media accounts and and they have real uh they have real reach.
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But I think that doesn't mean don't don't So they have power, but I don't think that means don't don't speak to them.
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I think it means s- speak So in a in a way it's all the more important to speak to them, but um with a sort of sense of intelligence and accountability.
10:47
Is it ghost is it a reference to a ghost pepper? It is actually.
10:51
How how far in are you going on this one?
10:53
I'm going as far as you go.
10:59
My my mouth is so scorched from the previous one, it's hard to tell is it just keeping the vibe going or you know what I mean?
11:08
Yeah, I think this one has kind of a complicated flavor profile, you know, where I kind of catch that whiskey and then it leaves behind that ghost pepper trail.
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Like right now my throat's pretty scratchy.
11:19
Yeah, I we're definitely up above the tree line.
11:24
I'm continuing the the mountaineering metaphor.
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And we're heading into the what's it called? The death zone. Yeah, that's it.
11:30
Marching right into the death zone here. I know, I know.
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But together we got this. We got this.
11:37
I got a little on my Yeah. Back of the throat. Good.
11:40
I might leave that one there. Perfect. Nice.
11:44
As someone who's made documentaries for decades, do you find that it's easier to get subjects to comply in this social media age where everything is always about such self-promotion?
11:54
Uh I do, but I don't know if it's for the reason the reason that you're suggesting.
11:58
I mean, I think Excuse me.
12:01
A little bit ghost pepper coming up. Here we go.
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I think um what's happened is I have more visibility now and also people in general have less anonymity and so anyone I approach can quite easily sort of Google me, search me up, look at my socials and in general, sorry, nose slightly stinging. Yeah, that's the show. That's it. Okay. Excuse me. Sorry for that. Oh.
12:31
The risk of kind of bigging myself up, I'm an award-winning I think you mentioned in your intro that I have three BAFTAs.
12:37
I try not to make too much of that.
12:45
So far, nothing too troubling. Right.
12:48
So this one I think is kind of a chill number seven.
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We go out with the old and with the new every time. an album.
12:53
Like track seven's an instrumental. Yeah, yeah. Right? Right.
12:57
You don't want to overlook it too much cuz it does have kind of a some late life to it. But It's a good jam.
13:03
It's just um it's just not a single, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm with you on that.
13:09
From undergoing liposuction surgery to stripping down in your underwear to have whipped cream spread all over you at the polyamorous sensual dinner, what do you think is the most you've ever suffered for your art?
13:20
Thank you for actually watching some programs or someone watched something. I I your work.
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I like your I'm a fan of your work, Louie. Thank you, man.
13:28
Um in terms of suffering there's different kinds of suffering.
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Uh there's acute embarrassment.
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I've had that a few times.
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Once stripping off for a porn uh for to get basically on the books of a porn agent. He was called Jim South.
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This was in the late '90s.
13:46
you had the black couch audition?
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Yeah, I basically it wasn't really a casting couch.
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It was more of a stand naked and just wiggle it around.
13:56
You were supposed to have wood for the um for the It wasn't you know, in order like they basically they they had these books of of male talent in which the male talent is standing there and really to be fully true to life you should be in a state of arousal, right?
14:11
Because the director who comes in to book the talent the male talent wants to see what kind of wood you're working with. Naturally.
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But I'm like that's you know, I have limits. It's a bridge too far. It is a bridge too far.
14:22
So I'm not I I I think it'd be kind of funny to see me naked having my po- Polaroid taken for the porn agent.
14:30
I'm not going to uh get the wood.
14:34
They can basically go with the the the non I'm trying to find a safe way to Just the the natural The natural state. The natural state. is in its natural state. But it was out yeah.
14:44
So like moments like that. Yeah, right.
14:46
Part of the job, I guess. That is. That is.
14:48
And you put yourself in these worlds, you know. Yeah. And you know what?
14:52
Speaking of maybe not being safe putting yourself in the world, here you are in my world. Yes.
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And this next sauce is the bomb beyond insanity. Okay.
15:02
So this is The clue may be in the name beyond insanity.
15:06
Yeah, yeah, they they kind of give it away here. Cheers. Ready? Down the hatch. Something's happening. Hmm. Oh, wow.
15:25
Is that the spiciest thing you've ever eaten? Oh, yeah. That's not nice.
15:30
Why are you doing this to me?
15:33
It just It has to be this way.
15:38
Do the Are these got Do we have to be nice about the sauce?
15:39
I don't even like the You can say whatever I don't even like the flavor. No, it's awful.
15:42
You can say whatever you want.
15:44
It just tastes like a poison.
15:44
It has like a metal taste to it almost. Oh, that's not nice. Oh, that's bad. Yeah. It's building. I'm in trouble. Right. And there's more milk.
15:54
We do have some extra milk here for you.
15:58
And the key here is there is like a a tightrope walk where you don't want to drink too much milk. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh. Does this help?
16:07
I think what you're finding is that nothing actually helps.
16:09
You know, like once you're in this thing, there's nothing that truly saves you, you know?
16:18
Is it Is it like um You know, oh, I'm crying.
16:20
Is it like uh oh It's just Oh.
16:29
It's that thing where it just keeps going up. Yeah.
16:33
And you just got to It's just getting worse and worse. Yeah.
16:37
And then what you said like oh, it gets you from I was like oh, it's not too bad.
16:42
But remember early on when you were like very That's all you got, you know, like it's it's to that guy? I know. I know.
16:47
This is an ego death every time on this show.
16:51
My tongue feels like a stranger. You're right. Yeah. Foreign object in there. Yeah. It's like it's glowing.
16:59
It's like it's playing music.
17:02
But it's You know what I think?
17:02
It's getting stronger, all right?
17:03
Stepping out of this studio, we'll be stronger, Louie.
17:09
Pain is weakness leaving the body. Right?
17:13
I played You know, high school football in America, you get You picked up on all those.
17:17
Is that one of the things?
17:17
I saw that once at like a bodybuilding convention and I was like, I like that.
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What if anything did the explosion of your my money don't jiggle jiggle track, what did it teach you if anything about virality on the internet? Um almost nothing. Yeah, right.
17:34
Because I I didn't understand it then and I still don't really understand it.
17:40
I just know that um one minute I had uh just you know done an interview with Amelia Dimoldenberg, was a rapper written with a couple of guys in Jackson, Mississippi for an episode of Weird Weekends.
17:53
The rap's pretty good, I think, as a sort of novelty rap, but it still doesn't really explain why it caught on.
18:00
And and and of naturally as much as I've said, "Oh, wow, it's just a brilliant thing and it was once-in-a-lifetime."
18:06
There's a little voice saying, "Hey, do it again."
18:09
You know, "What about a Christmas?"
18:14
My my sleigh bells don't jingle jingle. Do you know what I mean? Like I can hear it now.
18:19
And and and what you know, what would be wrong with that?
18:22
Would make me I'd be I'd have that beautiful relevance all over again.
18:26
And then good sense prevails and I'm like, "Don't be that guy."
18:31
My wife said early on, "Don't touch it. Don't chase it. Let it be." Good advice.
18:37
So uh I've by and large done that other than re-recording a remix and doing a video and promoting it. I took a break of bite. I saw that. Did you? I'll join you.
19:00
Like like I might have been shot.
19:03
You know that they say when you're bit by a shark, do you know what it feels like?
19:07
You don't maybe you don't feel it at first, right? It's a tug, apparently.
19:10
Did you know that and it's taking your leg off.
19:13
And then you look down and you're like, that's weird.
19:16
There's blood in the water.
19:20
And then it's that weird, I'm going in circles. Yeah.
19:22
And there's a shark with a leg.
19:25
You start to connect the dots.
19:26
And then maybe you get some pain.
19:29
And after that, I think it gets worse. Yeah. Do you get my metaphor?
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I think I know what happened.
19:35
I'm immune because of that cuz of that one.
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Because pain was weakness leaving the body and you entered this next sauce, a stronger Louie. That's what happened. I did.
19:46
I had to die in order to be reborn.
19:48
Yeah, that's exactly what happened.
19:49
say that in high school football?
19:51
No, but that would be awesome if a coach did.
19:53
If he went like that deep.
19:56
Do you have a Mount Rushmore of documentaries?
19:58
Four films off the top of your head without overthinking it that you think are like the best foundational examples of technical excellence in the genre.
20:08
Uh I would go uh Thin Blue Line, Errol Morris's would be would be in there, I think.
20:15
Non-fiction storytelling, very pure.
20:17
It was one of the films that got me interested in documentary making.
20:22
I I'd probably have to shout out Roger & Me because Michael Moore was something of a mentor to me and as a first-person piece of storytelling and using humor and taking a social issue in a quirky way.
20:35
Oh, you know Exit Through the Gift Shop? Oh, yeah. He's film.
20:40
And I just thought it was um he's kind of in it but not in it and it's about street art, it's about self-promotion. It's a great watch.
20:53
And then the last one I would say maybe is The Act of Killing which is by Joshua Oppenheimer and a very heavy subject, a set of atrocities in Indonesia in which thousands of people were killed.
21:07
Oppenheimer approaches them as almost as if they are to be celebrated and gets them to reenact what they did because they're proud.
21:19
They're proud of They're proud of these crimes.
21:20
And in the course of making So, he's making a movie within a movie and in the course of following them doing the doing sort of these reenactments, they start to get some insight into what they did.
21:31
It's very heavy, but very very powerful. All right, Louie. Nice segue. No, no, come on.
21:44
If you're doing it there we go. I've put quite a lot on.
21:49
Yeah, that's a little wild. Too much? Impossibly. Yeah, there we go. Cheers, Louie. What a ride. We're in the death zone. This summit. Let's get to the summit. See on the other side.
22:08
No, yeah, nothing fun about it.
22:10
But the good news it looks you have a contemplative look on your face.
22:13
You know what I think just happened? What? I attacked the shark. You I Yeah.
22:20
I think I just killed the shark. you did too. Are you okay? Yes, I'm fine. Do you need help, buddy?
22:25
If you're okay, I'm okay.
22:25
That's all the strength that I need.
22:27
That's all the strength that I need.
22:30
And the good news is, Louie, the wings of death they're behind us. Thank you.
22:34
To close things out, Yeah.
22:36
you know, as an occupation, you've entered all of these worlds.
22:38
Some of them unseen, some of them outcasted, some of them weird and bizarre.
22:43
And then you've been doing it for so long in this ever-changing time.
22:47
What do you see as the importance of empathy in an increasingly fractured world? I love that question.
22:54
I'm getting more heat now.
22:57
I get my Is there like maybe I've got a time delay?
23:00
Are you getting more now?
23:01
Yeah, that's I I knew I What I did is I inhaled and so I caught it all back of throat.
23:06
So then I knew and then I know it grows and has that time bomb thing.
23:10
So I knew I kind of crashed right into the brick wall here at the end, but still have my feet. I'm fine.
23:16
So to take that step of reaching out and attempting to see things, uh I think it's crucial.
23:20
I I honestly take the approach in my films and this is more by instinct than design, but I assume a level of good faith.
23:28
I assume that people out there for the most part are doing the best they can.
23:34
Like very, very few people get up in the morning thinking, "How can I [ __ ] things up?
23:39
How can I be a bad person?"
23:44
The things that people do that do end up being destructive either it's just selfishness, which is, yeah, very human, or it's idealism run amok, right?
23:54
It's this feeling of being locked into a sense of your own virtue that means that you are you're failing to see the bigger picture and you're kind of being programmatic and and actually using people as roadkill on your own journey of kind of idealism.
24:14
Does that make any kind of sense?
24:16
Like you think about atrocities that are committed in the name of communism or fascism or eco-terrorism, whatever it may be.
24:22
Those are people attempting to usher in a golden dawn.
24:28
But nevertheless in many cases killing hundreds or thousands or tens of thousands or millions of people, right?
24:35
Um so that's you know, the empathy is sort of um I think the bedrock to to to to to sort of a preventing that and to attempting to not lose sight of the greater humanity.
24:47
I don't know, I I feel like I maybe got a bit grandiose there for a second, but but that's you know, that's how I feel.
24:54
Fueled by the wings, Louie. Taking them on, Yeah.
24:58
killing the shark, and living to tell the tale.
25:00
And now there's nothing left to do but roll out the red carpet for you.
25:03
This camera, this camera, this camera, let the people know what you have going on in your life.
25:07
Uh uh I have a series on BBC, a series of interviews that is coming up, depending on when you're watching this.
25:13
I have loads of I have 25 years of documentaries that are out there.
25:16
I'm really proud of my documentaries.
25:19
I've made 50, 60, 70 on all kinds of subjects, in prisons, in the adult industry, about religious groups, cults, whatnot.
25:27
And uh they're I think they're all pretty good. I agree with you.
25:33
I AGREE WITH THAT WAS NICE, MAN. YOU HAD A GOOD TIME? YEAH.
25:42
I'm glad we peaked with that one, and then the last two were kind of not coasting out of it, but it felt um like a story arc. Yeah.
25:49
Yeah, it felt like okay, well here we are, and actually um this is this is dealable with.
25:56
Oh, it was nice to see you suffering a bit.
26:03
Hey, what's going on, Hot Ones fans?
26:05
This is Sean Evans with an announcement.
26:06
Truth or Dab: The Game now has a brand new refresh edition. That's right.
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If you already had the original Truth or Dab game, you can now get even more hotter questions with the refresh edition. The game is simple.
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Answer deeply personal and potentially awkward questions, or face the wrath of the Last Dab. That's right.
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Both editions of the game feature a mini bottle of the Last Dab hot sauce.
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Check out the description below to see where you can pick up Hot Ones Truth or Dab: The Game, or visit wildertoys. com.