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Today is Friday, December 5th, 2025.
3:12
We are live again from the New York Stock Exchange.
3:15
[music] >> Thank you for the boat sound Jordy.
3:19
This is the Real Fortress of Finance, the capital of capital.
3:20
Uh the Temple of Technology. It's back in Hollywood.
3:25
We'll be there on Monday.
3:25
But we have a great show for you today, folks.
3:27
We have Keith Ra Boy joining us in person.
3:29
Uh we have Lynn Martin, president of the New York Stock Exchange.
3:33
We have Emily Sunberg and do we have we have one more Adam Faze again >> had some hot takes on uh the WB >> which is the top story today other than of course RAMP time is money. Save both.
3:46
He's used corporate cards bills accounting and a whole lot more all in one place.
3:50
Let me give you some facts about Netflix.
3:53
They're going to be bought by or they're going to buy Warner Brothers and HBO Max for an 82. 7 billion dollar deal.
4:01
Uh the acquisition is expected to close following Warner Brothers Discovery spin-off of Discovery Global TV Network's division in Q3 2026.
4:11
There's a bunch of fun interesting things hitting the timeline.
4:12
Obviously, this is a tech story because of Netflix.
4:15
It's also a uh a media story and, you know, a public market story as well.
4:18
And it is a story that we we will be talking about for quite a while because although uh although this has gotten announced uh in the last 24 hours, it's very likely that this is going to be a very long uh drawn out process before it actually gets regulatory approval. >> Yeah.
4:36
Well, let me read through Variety that had uh a great summary of the deal.
4:43
But first, let me tell you about graphite. dev.
4:44
Code review for the age of AI.
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Graphite helps teams on GitHub ship higher quality software faster. So, it's official.
4:50
In a move that will dramatically reshape the entertainment business, Netflix and Warner Brothers or WB, don't call it Warner Bros.
4:56
, although we we want to, uh, the insiders, they call it Warner Brothers or WB.
5:02
Uh, Warner Brothers Discovery announced an agreement Friday under which Netflix will acquire Warner Brothers, including its film and TV studios, HBO Max and HBO.
5:14
Uh the deal has a total enterprise value including debt of 82.
5:17
7 billion with an equity value of 72 billion.
5:20
The company said the announcement of Netflix's deal to buy the Warner Brothers streaming and studio business came after a week's long bidding war that pitted the streaming giant against David Ellison's Paramount Skyance and Comcast.
5:33
Uh news broke Thursday evening that Netflix had entered into exclusive negotiations with WBD on a deal for Warner Brothers and HBO Max.
5:41
uh quote from Netflix co-CEO Ted Sandos.
5:44
He said, "I know some of you are surprised we're making this acquisition and I think people were surprised because didn't uh Netflix's stock trade down on this news down.
5:58
>> People are worried about the >> Some people are excited about it.
5:59
Some people are plenty of people are not excited about it for various reasons.
6:04
Some people don't think uh it'll get uh approved.
6:08
Other people think this is, you know, it's quite an extension.
6:10
WB obviously does theatrical releases.
6:12
They have a movie theater business.
6:14
It's not uh it's definitely will be an quite an extension >> uh to Netflix's core business today. >> Yeah.
6:23
Netflix for reference $425 billion company down 2. 6% today.
6:26
So not falling off a cliff or anything but uh certainly people taking note of this.
6:33
There's also a number of opads about this already out on the timeline.
6:37
Uh we can go through some of those but first let me tell you about Vanta automate compliance and security AI that powers everything from evidence collection and continuous monitoring to security reviews.
6:45
Um so Netflix expects it uh said it expects to quote maintain Warner Brothers.
6:55
He said uh he said the company has historically been more of a builder than a buyer.
7:00
And so Netflix is trying to like sort of reassure both fans, employees, even people who might just see Warner Brothers Discovery as like a fantastic asset that doesn't need to be like stripped for parts.
7:11
He's trying to push back against a potential narrative that uh Netflix will will be very ruthless in cost cutting and and lose some of that, you know, what people think made WB amazing art.
7:23
Uh so he said uh Netflix expects to maintain Warner Brothers current operations and build on its strengths, including theatrical releases for films.
7:33
I know this doesn't matter to you because you never go to the theater and you never receive.
7:38
>> Hey, we went and saw Dune.
7:38
We got >> that was like 2 years ago.
7:40
But we got a b we we got a when we did that it was a lot of fun.
7:44
We got a bunch of the guys we got a bunch of the guys together.
7:46
We said we're going to make a monthly thing. >> Yeah.
7:49
We were close at at the start of the year. We were doing that. We were doing that.
7:52
We were getting everyone together just like guys night out kind of but to the movie theater because we were like okay what do you do if you're a guy and you have a bunch of guy friends and you want to you know go meet up but you don't really like drinking, you don't know anything about sports.
8:06
Like what [clears throat] can you do on a Tuesday night?
8:09
>> Suit up and head to your local movie theater.
8:10
head to the local movie theater.
8:12
And fortunately, it feels like Netflix must have heard what we said.
8:16
They probably re this seems like a direct reaction to us >> potentially.
8:19
We do need to go back to the theater though because uh we have not been supporting them uh nearly enough recently.
8:25
Um but it is a good time and and I do think it is important to set this tone like I mean the reality is that like like theaters are going to change.
8:35
change. they are that like it there's a question of like you know fast takeoff in AI fast takeoff in streaming like it's been 20 years since you've been able to watch things on the internet you've been able to watch uh home box office was a way to watch a movie at
8:50
home uh in some ways the ability to put a TV in someone's house was the beginning of the end for the theater because they were immediately substitutes although the difference was massive screen versus tiny CRT and then it was like okay 42in TV flat screen. Now, that might cost a couple grand, you
9:06
Now, that might cost a couple grand, you know, 10 years ago.
9:09
Now, I was at I was somewhere I think I was at Target and I saw a 42-in TV.
9:15
I think it advertised for like 75 bucks or something.
9:17
It's like suspiciously cheap. It was so cheap.
9:22
>> It's like a rotisserie chicken.
9:22
It's just trying to get you in the door.
9:26
>> I mean, in college for me, like the 42-in TV was the gold standard.
9:30
>> We weren't in the era of the 65, the 75, the 85.
9:32
Like, the big TVs hadn't arrived.
9:34
But the 42 inch TV was good.
9:36
>> It was like you're the king of the castle.
9:37
>> Yeah, you were the king of the castle if you had a 42 in.
9:38
And it was like a serious expense. It was a couple grand.
9:41
Now they're practically giving them away.
9:43
Uh and so of course that's going to be a competitive pressure, but also it's not going to destroy the theater immediately, but it's going to have an eros erosion effect over decades.
9:50
And that's exactly what's happening.
9:53
But it's nice that Netflix is not declaring this the end of the theater.
9:56
They're going to continue to invest in support.
9:59
Uh, and I I think this will, you know, certainly, you know, encourage everyone to continue supporting Warner Brothers and Discovery and Netflix.
10:05
So, Netflix signaled it would keep HBO Max as a discrete service while it also touted the addition of HBO and HBO Max content to its lineup.
10:15
And so, they're going to add the deep film and TV libraries and HBO to and HBO Max programming.
10:20
Netflix members will have even more high quality.
10:25
>> Will it be called Netflix Max?
10:28
You need to be Netflix maxing.
10:28
Maybe that's Wait, is that why they did HBO Max?
10:32
Because they wanted it to be like, "Oh, if you're HBO Maxing, you get HBO."
10:35
>> Then it was then it was HBO Max, then it was Max, and it was back to HBO.
10:39
>> People People give them so much uh they talk so much trash about HBO with the with the rebrand chaos, but Max is a great term >> as opposed to because they could have done HBO Plus.
10:50
No, I mean the critique there was HBO has built up such an incredible brandity and credit to Scott Galloway.
10:56
I remember he went so hard on them for dropping the HBO.
11:01
You've spent like you've spent decades building up this incredible brand and you're just like see you.
11:07
We'll just be called Max.
11:08
>> They spent like two years HBO Maxing.
11:10
>> Well, they spent two decades HBO Maxing and then they just max HBO Maxing and then they just went maxing and that was that was the end the beginning of the end.
11:19
[laughter] But uh uh the article goes on, "This allows Netflix to optimize plans for consumers, enhancing viewing options, uh and expanding access to content.
11:30
Netflix says it expects to see 2 to3 billion in cost savings annually by the third year after the Warner Brothers Discovery deal closes. Um let's see.
11:40
Uh the company expects the transaction to be accretive uh to earnings per share by year two.
11:46
Uh the cash and stock transaction was valued at $27 per share and the timeline is going back and forth on this.
11:54
But >> okay, Leia, let's get into some takes.
11:59
So counter side of this, the information actually had a pretty scathing uh a scathing kind of analysis of the acquisition.
12:06
>> I'm going to tell you about public.
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com investing for those that take it seriously.
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12:12
>> Uh so I read through this earlier.
12:12
This is from Martin Piers.
12:15
He says, "Netflix's Warner purchase is an $82. 7 billion blunder." Calling it a blunder.
12:22
>> Uh he says it will likely announced Friday morning will likely prove a stupendous error by a management team that until now has rarely put a wrong foot.
12:29
Netflix paying a huge price, 27 and a half times next year's expected earnings well above prevailing multiples for film and TV companies for businesses that likely won't help it add many subscribers, right?
12:40
Like Netflix has like saturation a lot of people today.
12:45
So, from a consumer standpoint, if you subscribe to Netflix and HBO uh Max, you're going to be like, "Cool, I can turn off of one of these services and just switch over to here."
12:53
Question is, well, then Netflix will they be incentivized to just keep pushing the the price of the subscription?
12:57
They're adding more content, more IP.
12:59
Um, and so I would expect them to do that.
13:02
Um, Martin continues, "Moreover, the deal is likely to face severe regulatory obstacles."
13:08
Uh again, so Netflix is not exactly uh Trump aligned, right?
13:11
Uh they the Netflix did the deal uh with the Obamas.
13:17
Uh and so I think that in a world where Netflix was going to uh uh sorry uh WB is going to Paramount.
13:24
I could see that uh uh much more likely to to get through.
13:30
Uh whereas this uh this is going to make make sure the the Netflix like team is going to be spending like at least the next year I would assume working on this and then since we started >> what you mean regulatory approval? >> Yeah.
13:42
Just trying to get this across the line. >> Yeah. Yeah.
13:44
I mean it it feels like it's so hard to make the case that this creates some sort of monopoly because Disney owns it's like yes okay now Netflix has and they also have Batman.
13:56
But >> Jason Kar, who's a former Warner Media CEO, says, "If I were tasked with doing so, I could not think of a more effective way to reduce competition in Hollywood than selling WBD to Netflix."
14:08
>> What about selling it to Disney?
14:11
>> You literally have Batman, Superman, and all the Marvel characters.
14:13
You have Spider-Man and Star Wars.
14:15
That feels like that would be less competitive than having right right now from my perspective.
14:22
You have you have Batman and Superman kind of off on an island.
14:27
They haven't really been able to get that that that engine going to the same degree as Marvel, the Avengers, Thanos.
14:34
>> Somebody named Ben Weiss says disagree.
14:36
Hollywood is competing with Silicon Valley, Apple, Amazon, Google Meta, preserving some notion of competition in and between legacy.
14:41
Hollywood risk winning a battle and losing a war.
14:43
the old media companies need to more of the right type of scale. This does it for WB.
14:49
Jason says, "When I use that phrase competition in Hollywood, I'm referring to having a sufficient number of vibrant and robust entities that can and will aggressively compete against each other to produce and distribute films, okay, series, live events, and more for decades to come.
15:01
I'm not focused on the legacy of it all."
15:03
So >> yeah, I I would still I would still say this is like number two, but it I mean it might be high.
15:10
Uh but just in terms of like Hollywood film making, these feel like extremely competitive areas.
15:20
There are so many different uh there are so many different uh streaming services and and and bundles that you can piece together.
15:29
There are folks who are like, "Yeah, you know what?
15:31
I order from Amazon, so I have Amazon Prime.
15:32
That's where I watch everything.
15:34
There are still people that just go to Apple uh you know, Apple TV and just buy a movie.
15:38
You know, you can still just do that.
15:40
Uh you can be over off in the Netflix ecosystem.
15:42
You can be in the Hulu ecosystem.
15:44
Like there it doesn't feel like there's a a crazy lack of competition in media right now. So I I don't know.
15:54
I I'm I'm I'm I would be I would be somewhat surprised if this doesn't if this doesn't go through, but I mean, you never know. [sighs] >> I don't know.
16:00
I think uh Netflix >> again we we were uh before this we were having lunch with uh s cable exec and uh he was kind of bringing up how Netflix had gotten caught up a little bit in kind of some of the the the woke stuff.
16:15
Uh, and again, I just think in uh in in a in Trump America, uh, it just feels far more likely that uh, the Allison's could get a deal done and they're notoriously >> absolute dogs in Washington.
16:29
>> Yeah, there's rumor going to go that they're going to like they're going to try and out bid, right? >> Yeah. right now.
16:33
Uh this is Chris Gasprine over at at Fox says Scoop as reported Paramount and Sky Dance is now looking to launch a hostile bid for WBD because it feels its $30 a share allcash offer is actually higher than what Netflix offered in terms of cash stock and the value of the spin-off of the cable business.
16:51
So this is still uh developing but uh >> anyways fan had some interesting uh backstory.
16:58
He says, "Wild outcome, especially after these three uh wild whatifs before Netflix IPO'ed in 2002.
17:05
Uh before Netflix IPO'ed in 2002, apparently Bezos offered $12 million to buy it.
17:10
Can you imagine if Netflix had sold for 12 billion?"
17:14
>> Well, they also tried to sell the Blockbuster during the >> So Blockbuster had a chance to buy it for $50 million and they laughed it off.
17:22
But then it was just a DVD delivery service and they were like, "We can build this. We have DVDs.
17:25
We have all the infrastructure.
17:26
the infrastructure. we can just take it from the stores like we don't need to do this but what they didn't realize was that actually building technology actually building a real tech like streaming service and scaling that platform I mean Netflix has some of the greatest like just infrastructure
17:42
>> and even the early recommendation engines like I remember I remember my dad being like yeah Netflix just recommended it knows what I like and it just said it sent me this they said you're going to enjoy this >> uh and then Bernard Arno saved it with a $30 million check you know this Netflix and Bernard Arno over the top. I love I love it. I love it.
18:00
Um I was I I was thinking about the actual value of putting these these things together because like you're you were making the point that putting Netflix and and uh and Warner Brothers together.
18:12
It doesn't like everyone's already subscribed to Netflix. I don't know.
18:15
I don't know if that's true if if the trends continue.
18:21
Like Netflix has a fair amount of like like they have their Squid Games.
18:24
They have some big They have some big IP, but if you just think about like the drum beat of HBO come back every season.
18:33
Oh, you're not watching Game of Thrones? You're out of the loop.
18:37
Oh, you're not watching Succession? You're out of the loop.
18:40
Like the conversation driving shows I feel like are on HBO much more consistently than Netflix.
18:47
And in fact, I don't even know if I'm logged into Netflix on my phone right now.
18:51
I know I'm still paying, but I really don't watch it very much.
18:55
And I think that the reason is because I just haven't had Oh, you're missing out on somebody.
19:02
So, you're you're a true enthusiast.
19:04
For me, as someone who's not an enthusiast, I'll go to Prime because I'm like I rarely watch movies.
19:08
If I'm going to watch a movie, I want to just I'm happy to just buy.
19:12
I'm not like going, let me get the let me get the the the free option on Netflix.
19:16
I'm like, I will just buy the thing that I want to fill this 90 minutes with.
19:24
>> Anyway, so the deal doesn't include WD WBD's cable channels such as CNN, TNT, TVS, and Discovery, which are being spun off.
19:32
>> Um, >> we don't know where that will land yet or people speculating.
19:36
>> Even if Netflix gets regulatory approval, it will have to take on 50 billion in debt to complete the deal and we'll spend a couple of years cutting costs to reduce that debt.
19:42
uh Netflix does do around 10 9 or 10 billion of free cash flow and so they can certainly service the debt >> um >> but uh anyways in the first 9 months of this year WBD studio and streaming operations generated 2.
19:58
3 billion in earnings >> uh in in IBIDA next year Netflix executives said they expected the Warner business to generate 3 billion in IBIDA that's a price of 27 1/2 times IBIDA after taking into account cost savings of 2.
20:12
5 billion they expect to make.
20:14
Netflix says the deal value represents a multiple of 14. 3 times.
20:16
Um, uh, WBD's traditional rivals Disney and Paramount Skyance are each trading around 11 times.
20:26
>> Uh, anyways, uh, we can kind of skip over this.
20:30
>> Kramer said, "So out of the box, Netflix as the world's biggest content creator by far.
20:34
Exciting, but not necessarily in a good way for shareholders." That's so funny.
20:40
Let me tell you about Finn.
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AI, AI, the number one AI agent for customer service, automate the most complex customer service queries on every channel.
20:47
Adam Faze, who's coming out on the show in just an hour or two, uh he says, "I don't think people realize the licensing business Netflix is about to have if this deal goes through.
20:55
Warner Brothers animated IP library alone would bring in billions in new merchandising revenue coupled with new versions of these iconic shows on the platform. Game over."
21:06
And he lists some of these out and uh one of them I think is hilarious is Fogghorn Legghorn.
21:10
Uh they own Looney Tunes.
21:13
So they have Bugs Bunny, Daffy Duck, Porky Pig, Sylvester, Roadrunner, Wy Coyote.
21:17
These are Yeah, these are these are timehonored uh iconic iconic characters.
21:24
Um, I just think it's funny because very clearly, um, there are a series of bankers out there that have a spreadsheet and somewhere they have a row and on that row is Fogghorn Legghorn and attached to Fogghorn Legghorn is the value of the intellectual property of Fogghorn Legghorn who's like a large rooster who talks with a funny accent.
21:44
And I just imagine that they're out there saying like, "Yeah, Fogghorn Legghorn, that's like 30 million.
21:46
That's a $30 million business."
21:48
Like, okay, Yusede Sam, that's a $50 million business. Porky Pig. Borgie pegs 80 million.
21:54
Let's view a sum of the parts.
21:57
I really hope that someone on Wall Street, some some investment banker, >> it's actually Adam Ant is being really undervalued.
22:03
We actually think this is a $2 billion property. >> Oh, Dick Dastardly.
22:06
You think Dick Dastardly is worth 8 million in in intellectual property value? Yeah, right. What about Snaggle Puss? >> I don't know.
22:14
This is part of No, this is part of the Hannah Barbara.
22:17
Uh, Quick Draw McGrath, Johnny Quest, Space Ghost, the Hercuoids.
22:22
Hercuoid sounds like some crazy crazy anon meme. >> Boooo.
22:28
>> Hercuoid seems like someone with a uh with a Roman statue avatar. >> Okay.
22:32
So, so Poly Market has who will acquire uh WB at 86% today.
22:34
Paramount is still only sitting at 6%. >> 6%.
22:42
So the company behind >> Amazon uh Amazon is still up there. Uh >> yes.
22:50
>> Anyways, so >> well let me tell you about Adio the AI native CRM.
22:53
Adio builds scales and grows your company to the next level. Um the DC comic books.
22:57
Uh I feel like there's that like I feel like Netflix could do something cool here.
23:02
I feel like Batman, Joker, Harley Quinn, Superman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, the Flash.
23:06
Like these are iconic characters.
23:08
These are these are costume these are Halloween costume characters.
23:12
They they are still really known and but the last round of of DC it just didn't break through in the way the the Marvel uh series did and Marvel broke through in such a massive way.
23:24
It didn't have the cache of the Dark Knight and the Nolan films.
23:27
But is there any way that they can get Nolan back in the seat to actually do a full arc or something? I don't know.
23:34
I I would just hope that uh I I I just grew up with the with the Nolan era of DC and I would have loved him to go on and do more of that with Superman, with, you know, uh the the whole crew, everyone coming together, and instead they got >> just really over the top with the CGI and the slow-mo and the and the the Zack Snider era.
23:56
And I think a lot of people sort of got got they got got tired of it.
24:00
And uh um I'm looking forward to whatever they whatever they wind up uh doing next.
24:04
Oh, they have Metal Aocalypse. That's a great one.
24:06
I like Robot Chicken Aquatine Hunger Force.
24:09
They got a they got a ton of stuff.
24:09
So it' be interesting to keep following it.
24:13
Anyway, >> um you want to go to Pawsum?
24:14
Oh, what's Mike Mirllor saying?
24:18
>> Mike Mirlo says, "We already have Nana Nano Banana Pro TVC commercials with decent paid media budgets behind them.
24:25
Everything is moving so so quickly." Okay.
24:27
>> So, James Harden uh is in an ad for My Prize.
24:30
I don't know what My Prize is.
24:33
>> Uh said, "This is the best commercial he's ever been in, and he never stepped foot on the set.
24:37
Uh let me show you how to crack the code on Celeb Deep Fakes for this My Prize ad we did with James Harden."
24:45
So, this is a guy named Billy uh Woodward. Yeah. Um, who's been here?
24:50
>> What do you think they're actually putting behind this uh this ad on TV?
24:53
Cuz it looks like a TV commercial, but this also could just be a viral marketing campaign on >> Oh, wow.
24:59
My prize is a premium online casino games on the the gambling trade.
25:04
Uh, >> surprised he doesn't have an official prediction market partner yet.
25:11
>> Um, in other news, uh, this almost seems like uh it could be fake. you share this news.
25:19
Let me tell you about Reream.
25:19
One live stream, 30 plus destinations.
25:21
If you want to multiream, go to reream. com. Um, so what is it?
25:25
There is uh there there's news out of uh the truth. >> I don't know. I don't know.
25:31
I don't know if this is real because not not a single there there's a very viral post right now that says breaking President Trump set to announce a new AI platform called Truth AI.
25:40
There's not a single not a single uh legacy media institution has reported on this that I've found.
25:45
So, I would uh given that this is a story that they'd be very excited to cover, I would be uh wary that it's real uh yet.
25:52
Uh but uh that's not stopping uh J Bull >> uh T A R [laughter] T uh from saying uh and you guys think Google won the AI race talking about how Trump is set to unveil new AI platform Truth AI.
26:08
I wonder if Truth Social uh popped at all today off of uh >> Truth Social.
26:17
>> No, it's down% lack of focus. Lack of focusing.
26:21
Yeah, you should be focused.
26:24
>> Uh >> you have to lock on one thing if you're a social media entrepreneur.
26:27
I mean, you know, Mark Zuckerberg is getting dinged for going some of the stuff back, >> you know.
26:35
Maybe maybe the truth social team's getting dinged for heading over to AI land instead of just doing a partnership. You know what?
26:40
You know what the crazy thing is?
26:41
Like I keep laughing about this fact that like it has got to be so hard to justify an in-house AI foundation model training run.
26:50
Now if you're a big platform when the rebuttal has to be, okay, so you're saying that you need to do something special, you need to do something creative, you need to do some weird deal with some other people, put something together, but Apple can just work with Google.
27:04
Yeah, >> it's enough for Apple to Apple gets to work for you.
27:08
Apple works to just buy tokens from Gemini, from Google, but you your business is more more special than >> I think I think Apple is in the position where like they're like we don't need to prove to like I feel like an analyst can look at Apple and say like they will have leverage in AI at least. >> Yeah. Yeah.
27:28
>> Whereas where there's other businesses that feel like okay, we need an AI strategy.
27:31
It's not enough to just announce a partnership with a lab.
27:32
Yes, >> we need to like actually own the weight. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
27:36
We should we we should actually get into some of the uh the Apple departures cuz we talked about this briefly.
27:42
Um but uh but the Wall Street Journal is saying that uh Apple departures point to challenges for iPhones dominance.
27:50
And I'm I think it's too early to call the the iPhone challenged.
27:56
I I feel like the iPhone's dominance has not been challenged yet. Maybe that is coming.
28:00
But uh you know uh there have been several top lieutenants who have left in the past 12 months and uh dozens of others have defected to rivals.
28:09
So there are some facts that are important to consider and and walk through here.
28:13
So uh the Wall Street Journal is summarizing it this way.
28:15
They say Apple is facing a wave of executive departures as the company continues a period of transition not only among its leadership but if rivals have their way for its businesses as well.
28:25
Uh on Thursday the company announced that its general counsel and head of policy will both retire next year.
28:32
Um on Wednesday a top designer left for Meta Platforms.
28:35
On Monday Apple said its head of artificial intelligence strategy would retire.
28:41
Uh its chief operating officer announced its retirement in July and the CFO has transitioned into a new role.
28:49
So lots of head uh lots of you know are the heads rolling or are these retirements?
28:55
There's a lot of like you know sort of management.
28:56
It feels like Apple's just like not the place to let the drama kind of come to them.
29:01
of come to them. They're like, "Look, if you even if you got poached, maybe we just >> Well, it was notable because Apple Apple came out with an announcement after the guy left for Meta and said uh we're basically tried to make it sound like it
29:14
was it was uh like they were positioning as like mutual like this was the right time for him to go on and I'll let anyone else kind of like read into whether or not it was really uh DHH was getting over 37 signals but says Apple was overdue for a full executive reset. just need to add Cook to the list and
29:31
just need to add Cook to the list and for a replacement. For stall is only 56. Time for a comeback.
29:37
>> Oh, that would be very interesting.
29:38
Yeah, there's a lot of Forest Doll fans out there who think that he didn't get it he didn't get it right or he didn't get the the opportunity he deserves.
29:44
>> Cook can't catch a break.
29:44
He's like >> I still think I still think Cook's done a lot of good good stuff.
29:48
I'm I'm still I'm still bullish on Cook. Um but I don't know. Um let's see.
29:53
It says the executive departures underscore a changing of the guard underway at Apple.
30:00
Even as executive uh chief executive officer Tim Cook himself shows no sign of stepping down even though everyone is leaking a variety of rumors to the contrary.
30:09
Uh Cook and his new lieutenants face a critical test preparing Apple for the AI era and a wave of new competitive devices that result.
30:21
We haven't seen the wave of new competitive devices just yet.
30:22
He I mean Apple if you there's another way to tell the story which is like Apple defeated the the rabbit R1.
30:28
They defeated the friend attack.
30:30
They defeated you know like uh what was the other one that that that that was the humane pin.
30:34
Oh, they're singing happy birthday out there. >> Sing happy birthday.
30:39
>> It's someone's birthday.
30:40
>> It's one of the guys down on the trading floor.
30:43
>> Oh, he's got a whole cake out there. That's great. >> Good guy. Well, >> very sweet.
30:47
Um why don't you uh tell us about your first >> turbo puffer [cheering] >> serverless vector in full text turbo puffer >> built from first principles on object storage fast 10x cheaper and extremely scalable. >> We love turbo.
31:03
>> That was really funny yesterday having Jim Kramer reference the puffer puffer team crazy crossover that was a deep that was a deep cutmer.
31:14
>> Yeah, that was a deep cut.
31:14
We have some uh uh Jacob uh Rentaki tagged us in a post here.
31:20
SpaceX tells investors it's aiming for a late 2026 IPO.
31:22
Uh Katie Roof over at uh the information >> the scoop >> uh has a scoop.
31:29
Uh apparently Elon Musk SpaceX has told investors and financial uh institutions that it is aiming for an IPO in the second half of next year.
31:36
The talk comes as SpaceX considers holding a sale of shares held by investors and employees that would value the company at 800 billion. >> Uh quite the markup.
31:45
Um double its valuation in a sale this summer and what would make it the most valuable private company.
31:51
He's got to be the most valuable private company.
31:53
It probably uh candidly makes him sick that that OpenAI has briefly uh eclipsed.
31:58
Um, the company is considering a a public listing of the entire company including Starlink.
32:04
Uh, which which makes sense.
32:06
I don't I I think like Starlink is is a a huge part of uh uh obviously the value of the business and I just don't think it goes out anywhere near 800 without it and they're very interlin.
32:17
Um, that is a change though from a few years ago when Mus said he expected SpaceX would eventually spin off uh Starlink and take it public, but executives have shelved the idea of a Starlink spin-off as its rocket business has improved.
32:29
Uh, apparently the Wall Street Journal uh reported on the uh share sale at 800.
32:35
Uh so anyways, um in other news, uh Mark Beni off is saying that he might rename the company Agent Force. Ha.
32:48
>> Uh, Trace Cohen says, "Just Force. Why not just Force?" >> Ooh, Force.
32:53
>> Um, >> well, isn't there a uh isn't there Force India, the F1 team from a couple years ago? BYT or BWT? Force India. That was like a team.
33:01
Uh, >> I think they struggled. >> I got to find that. >> What was Force India? Was that >> Force India?
33:08
>> Ben Off is is on a tear.
33:08
His his pinned tweet right now.
33:10
LLMs are the new disc drives.
33:13
commodity infrastructure you hot swap for whoever's cheapest and best.
33:18
The fantasy that the model is a moat just expired.
33:23
>> People are really going wild.
33:24
>> They're going off down here.
33:24
Uh >> do you think does it uh is there is there a prediction market yet up for renaming of Salesforce?
33:30
I think Salesforce is such a strong name even if they do more than sales uh at this point.
33:37
It's it's transcended the uh it's like like the the company has definitely transcended what they do like I think people know. >> Why not just sales?
33:47
I like just sales just be sales.
33:52
>> I don't think it can be.
33:52
I I think that's too generic. >> I don't know. Not >> what you do.
33:56
>> I mean he would have to update the the ticker.
33:59
Ticker is the bigger one >> because sales >> because everyone wants to be like CRM are dead.
34:03
You're going to just be able to just generate a CRM >> on the fly.
34:08
>> Buco Capital says, "F it. Nothing else is working. Go for it, brother."
34:13
>> A name change sometimes we'll fix you.
34:16
Just Just let it let it run.
34:17
>> Ethan Ding was coming in with some uh commentary. >> Yeah.
34:20
Uh he said yesterday, "It should be extremely extremely alarming to Salesforce investors that no exec at Salesforce is telling him that's not a lot of tokens."
34:30
Of course, he he they they they talked about generating 3. 2 trillion uh tokens.
34:33
Sounds like a big number.
34:36
Uh Ethan says, "For anyone who doesn't understand, Cursor processes more tokens than Salesforce all-time figure every 6 days.
34:42
Salesforce has 20 million users."
34:46
>> I mean, >> credit cursor has similar amount of users, I think. Um, sure.
34:52
>> Uh, assuming same average token count per active agent force user count is 40 to 60,000 truly active users aka 2 to.
34:56
3% adoption 3 years after launch. >> Yeah.
35:03
I I wonder I wonder I wonder like the like all tokens are not created equal.
35:07
like you can you can generate so many so many tokens if you're doing these like deep research reports and uh like if you had agent force going around and bas effectively running a deep research report on every contact in every CRM under like under >> every conversation >> every time you get a new email from a lead the the the token generation could be incredibly high and also deliver very little value.
35:31
On the flip side, uh you could have a really fine-tuned model that is, you know, laser focused, more of a scalpel, and uh you could be getting a lot of value out of those tokens that you are generating.
35:41
So, I don't I don't really know >> on the on the app layer debate. Our CRM's cooked.
35:47
There's a post here from Kalin.
35:49
Uh he says, "Just met a company that vibe coded an entire CRM to avoid paying for HubSpot over the last year.
35:56
It's now become a burden to maintain and missing key functionality.
35:58
Third party interoperability as they scale.
36:00
They're now migrating to HubSpot app layer is fine. We experienced this.
36:04
Uh I think it's so easy to make a a V1. >> Totally.
36:09
you can make a V1 in a day.
36:09
And so you assume like okay, you could be spend like another few days really building out like more of a feature set.
36:18
And the reality is like the thing that you generate in one day could take 10 at least for now hours and hours and hours every week just to like maintain it and make like incremental improvements.
36:28
>> Um let me tell you about linear.
36:28
Linear is a purpose-built tool.
36:30
Uh meet the system for modern software development.
36:34
Linear streamlines work across the entire development cycle from roadmap to release.
36:38
Uh I actually I didn't vibe code a CRM but uh back in college I built a CRM inside of Microsoft Excel and so I >> yeah that's like the classic that's the real competitor for a startup.
36:52
>> It it was like okay you could go from X sheets or Excel >> to maybe an Air Table slightly more robust then to to adio or a HubSpot or or or then and then eventually get over to Salesforce. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
37:05
Uh also I mean they uh yeah the question about like the value of the platform and the value of the app layer.
37:12
Um I mean we we were talking about this with with Shopify folks like there are so many companies I've worked at these companies.
37:17
I've run these companies where we said like no no no no our use case is special.
37:21
No one's going to build an e-commerce site exactly the way we want to build it.
37:26
And so we wind up building an entire e-commerce stack custom and then a couple years later Shopify just catches up and then boom, you're on you're back on Shopify.
37:35
Uh and and that's just happened time and time again. I I lived it at Soilent.
37:39
Uh it was a wild wild time.
37:42
>> Uh this is some wild news.
37:42
Logan Paul, Jake Paul, and Jeff Woo are starting an 8week accelerator.
37:46
It's a 25K safe followed by a $100,000 price round for a total of 7% equity.
37:52
Uh a lot of people are confused about uh doing it as a price round for 100k.
37:59
Uh a founder could easily end up spending like 30 grand, you know, like depending on depending on who their lawyer is like actually working through.
38:07
So it's like 100k investment and then you have like let's assume you're like super efficient and it's like 10 grand.
38:12
It's like is that >> it's kind of annoying.
38:15
>> And then yeah, it's it's it's uh it's annoying.
38:18
Um, that said, I think there's a lot of interesting businesses that could go through this that would really benefit from working with Jake and and Logan and Jeff.
38:28
>> It's so interesting that it's a 25 safe and then a $100,000 price round.
38:30
Like, why not just 125 for 7% like on a on a on a safe with a cap that ensures they get 7% no matter what.
38:39
Like, uh, that feel I would love to talk to them.
38:41
I I think hopefully we're going to be able to get Jeff Woo on the show at some point.
38:46
We can ask him about how he is, you know, thinking about that particular term.
38:50
I know a lot of people here are saying like, oh, 7% for 125k, that's low.
38:55
Uh, and that's certainly lower than YC.
38:57
YC, you come in with like, I think a $10 million valuation.
38:59
This is more like a $1 million valuation.
39:01
Um, but uh, you know, if you're an earlier in your career and you're not ready to go to a different higher valuation, like this could still be a good >> or you don't need a lot of capital for your business, but you do need a lot of attention.
39:14
Like I could see some consumer brands getting started this way.
39:18
>> No, I I I mean I just remember like like YC was my north star for like what I wanted to get into with my first business.
39:23
But like I got denied the first time I applied.
39:24
And I was like, >> if you gave me $5,000 for 10% of the business, like I would take it because I want to work on my thing and I want to keep going.
39:33
And like yes, it's so at some point it can be predatory.
39:35
But like uh with some of the first ideas that I was coming up with, like I definitely didn't deserve 125k for 7% cuz they were like slop companies that were like very unlikely to w to to succeed. So I don't know.
39:48
There's something interesting.
39:48
I do wonder if they will position this as okay, you're you're you're going to be able to accelerate on the go to market side.
39:57
You're going to be able to accelerate on the on the creator side, creator partnerships.
40:00
Uh this will be there's a whole bunch of different ways.
40:04
It could be something where you are work you're going through this accelerator because you get to ask Logan and Jake about their media creation, their creator work, and then you're you're launching your company.
40:18
because it could be a crack incubation because I'm sure that they want to launch a bunch of products.
40:28
This is a way to just kind of take swings and and get to get close to working with people and then if something lines up, they can say, "Hey, we actually want to do like a 50-50 deal and this is going to be like Logan and Jake as co-founders of the next thing that they're working on together and we're going to really really push this for you.
40:44
We'll be your marketing arm." Yeah.
40:45
So, it'll be interesting to see where these companies go.
40:48
>> Jeff and Jake, uh, I think are coming on the show in the next couple weeks before the end of the year.
40:52
So, we will be able to ask them more about that.
40:56
>> Before we move on, let me tell you about Profound.
40:57
Get your brand mentioned in chat, GPT, and more.
40:59
Reach millions of consumers who use AI to discover new products and brands.
41:03
Um, >> Aaron has a good post here.
41:06
The remaining remaining Apple leadership team, >> who is Travis Scott, Tim Cook, >> Mr. Beast, Mr. Beast, >> Mr.
41:16
did say that he's going to film on iPhones.
41:18
I'm not sure what the Travis Scott connection is.
41:20
Has he done a partnership with Apple?
41:24
>> Just there are still plenty of folks. Eddie Q is still there.
41:26
Apple leadership team is still stacked. Don't you worry. Don't you worry.
41:31
There are still people here.
41:33
Uh and we have our first boy in the in the reream waiting room.
41:41
>> Physical reream waiting room.
41:43
>> Uh they put the moon on the sphere.
41:43
They put cheese on the sphere.
41:48
>> We're the sphere of Vegas says, "We're sending off the last super moon of 2025 with something special.
41:53
>> Using NASA's public domain lunar data, our team built a true to science moon that is that's lighting up this Las Vegas skyline.
41:59
This looks absolutely insane.
42:04
>> Building the sphere is like underrated. It's so cool."
42:06
Like when I >> We don't know how to build beautiful things anymore. >> Make it make sense. >> Yeah, we do.
42:11
People look at people look at this and they think uh you know the New York Stock Exchange how did they build this?
42:17
Was this built by humans? There's a lot of debate.
42:19
Uh but the sphere really really reinstates yes we can build amazing things. >> Yeah. Humans built that. >> Yeah.
42:26
>> Humans built the sphere.
42:28
>> You heard about the heating the like the the level of uh of like engineering that went into actually driving the screens on the outside cuz So >> at that scale like the each pixel is not like your laptop.
42:40
It's not like your phone.
42:42
It's like a bright light.
42:42
Like each pixel is like this big and it's a light. >> Yeah.
42:47
>> Then and so that light even if it's an LED, it still produces heat.
42:50
>> And then you have So you have a whole bunch of them that are all heating each other >> next to each other.
42:54
>> And then you put it in the hottest place in the world in the desert.
42:58
>> And so there's just been like a phenomenal amount of energy.
42:59
And I'm surprised you you know people are so ready to dunk on this and be like, "Oh, it failed."
43:04
Like if it if it shut off, if if it showed like a blue screen of death or like an error message, that would be so viral.
43:09
That would actually be a good campaign.
43:11
That would be a great campaign if you were marketing it and and the video that you put up showed the the the the like the Windows blue screen of death, like the fail like, "Oh, oh, it broke."
43:20
Because then you'd go viral if if someone was like, "Oh, wow."
43:24
Like, what were they advertising?
43:26
Oh, they were running an ad for TBPN and the ad was too good and it crashed the whole software or something because, you know, the Shopify guys came on, they were like, "We're doing this live.
43:33
We're live streaming to the sphere." It's very cool.
43:36
Um but uh but if you if you cr if you can figure out how to crash the sphere or at least make it look like you crashed the sphere, I think you have some viral potential.
43:42
Well, let me tell you about numeral. com.
43:43
Compliance handled numeral worries about sales tax and VAT compliance so you can focus on growth.
43:51
And we have our first guest of the show.
43:53
We have Keith Boy here in New York City coming on down. Look at this. Thank you, Keith. Good to see you. How you doing?
44:02
[music] >> Thank you so much. Thanks for having us.
44:04
you are the mayor of New York now.
44:04
Uh we have partnership with the New York Stock Exchange. It's a great setup. It looks great.
44:11
Uh and obviously it gives us easy access to folks like you.
44:13
So thanks so much for coming on down. Uh how have you been?
44:18
What's new in your world? >> Great. Pretty busy.
44:19
You know, of her adventures pretty busy right now.
44:21
People doing deals every day watching left and right. Crazy valuations.
44:26
>> Is that a green flag for you or is that a red flag?
44:29
>> It's hard to tell like and I think a lot of people are going to lose money.
44:32
Hopefully we're not included.
44:32
Um but the valuations have an extra zero. >> Yes.
44:36
>> You know sometimes two >> literally um before this recent like sort of trend I had never invested an entry price for like any normal company above an $86 million valuation. >> Yeah.
44:50
>> And you know that whole world is completely different.
44:53
>> Uh so like everything seems to have >> How many deals a year are you trying to get in under under 10?
44:59
>> Like I would imagine all No, I know. I know.
45:02
Realistically like in the last year maybe like one one a year somebody you knew well so you can >> my philosophy is bold early impactful bold early impactful that's the KV mantra you know I I love that >> so early means first institutional capital >> even today if you're right bold and early that's still maybe over $10 million it used to be you know 500k when I invested Airbnb it was 500k 3. 5 million post. Wow.
45:33
>> Door Dash was something like 8 to 10 post. >> Yeah.
45:36
>> So, you know, the world's very very different now.
45:38
They're going to be epic companies.
45:39
Like what is very clear is some of these companies are absolutely iconic and will be iconic for decades.
45:46
>> I doubt there's as many as people think.
45:48
So, the argument goes that, you know, we've changed the physics and there's going to be 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, 100 billion dollar plus companies.
45:55
I don't believe that stuff.
45:57
Uh, certainly not on the consumer side.
45:59
I don't believe it on the consumer side.
46:00
Possibly an enterprise if you believe AI is going to transform every business everywhere possibly.
46:06
But the consumer side, consumers are busy.
46:08
They have 20, there's only 24 hours in a day.
46:09
Tech doesn't change that yet.
46:12
>> And so every time someone adopts a new app, a new product as a consumer, they have to substitute from their friends, from their family, from church, from basketball.
46:22
>> And so the bar just keeps going up.
46:22
So I don't really believe there's going to be too many breakthrough consumer companies.
46:27
Chat GBT, OpenAI will be one.
46:30
Not really sure who else.
46:32
>> And it just feels like we're in this era where if you do have a breakthrough, the big tech companies are in an offensive position. They're in wartime mode.
46:39
Some of them like Meta are are are uh they're founder still.
46:44
They're still in founder mode.
46:46
And so you're going to have a pretty good copycat on your tail within 6 months of you going viral, within a year.
46:52
That is an interesting dynamic.
46:54
Typically the large companies we don't all make fun of you all entrepreneurs and we don't make fun of these old sluggish you know large companies with tens of thousand now they're our friends well they may not be your friends but they are fast and they are paying attention like they're usually sloppy and slow like I remember when we were doing PayPal eBay was like the most
47:11
incompetent organization on the planet like Google was literally being built underneath them and eBay hired like management consultants at Bane and told them don't worry about Google like that was the classic like large tech company and admittedly bag was worse than most But like still now, you know, all the large tech companies except Apple seem to be paying attention. Um, you know,
47:28
Um, you know, Apple is behind the eightball in AI. >> Yeah.
47:32
Unpack that a little bit because there's a lot of departures and, you know, you're wearing an Apple Watch today.
47:37
Like, you're not giving it up anytime soon. I love my Okay.
47:44
What's the nature of the risk?
47:44
Because I don't see us actually going somewhere else because we're locked in, right? >> No.
47:50
I think, you know, building vertically integrated products.
47:51
vertically integrated products. So to do hardware well you need hardware skills chain battery innovation >> that's before you get to the software but does somebody figure out how to do an AI unique unique to AI custom device that is compelling possibly depends on
48:08
what time frame we're talking next year unlikely >> 10 years I'd be one of that you know more more likely than not >> so at some point Apple will be >> Bernard Arno has a best quote here he's like in something like in 50 years will people we be drinking champagne. I think I think yes.
48:24
In 50 years, will we we all be using iPhone? He's like, I'm not sure.
48:28
>> Yeah, I'll take the champagne or at least tequila.
48:30
[laughter] >> Um, but >> how is your how is your uh kind of view on Google's uh like competitiveness in AI changed over time if if at all?
48:41
>> Well, I we had a debate several several years ago.
48:44
Is it you know a sustaining innovation, you know, disruptive innovation?
48:47
Um after chat GBT it's clearly more disruptive potentially.
48:50
Um and I do think though they're they are paying attention.
48:54
They are taking it seriously.
48:56
That said Chad GBT is still the fastest growing product consumer product in the last like 15 years.
49:01
>> Um and I think if OpenAI plays its cards well and focuses on Chad GBT versus gets distracted as being a pure research lab.
49:09
So there's probably this tension there. Yeah.
49:12
>> Research lab AGI blah blah comes at sacrificing the quality.
49:14
It's not just that, but it's it's a let's launch a short form video app. Let's automate.
49:20
Let's do all the science.
49:20
Let's do they Sam I mean I think uh uh Sam's answer to Brad which kicked off like a broader discussion.
49:28
He was saying we're fine.
49:31
We're going to do consumer electronics and we're going to do science and I didn't I think a lot of people read into that and just say like hey Google does that.
49:38
They lose a lot of money on it.
49:39
It's not exactly and those are their bets.
49:41
Google means money so that it's going to be clear so they can fund it.
49:45
Um I think there's some things that Sam has to do.
49:47
Hardware is probably one because the risk that somebody else puts AI together on a consumer device before he does >> can rip them sort of out of >> what do you think about what do you how are you processing Apple with Gemini as a risk to chatbt?
50:05
>> I don't I I >> because to be cuz cuz like to be clear like Gemini has an amazing model.
50:11
They're well be behind on a just a product uh product experience standpoint, but there are quite a lot of searches that I hit Chad GPT or Gemini with that like a Siri integrated with Gemini, I'd be going there right away if it was like >> Yeah, it depends on the kind of query you're doing or prompt you're doing.
50:27
>> Yeah, but right now if I if I hit like for a fact that's not that far away that's not that far away from doing a a com like a a like >> Sure.
50:34
But then there's other kinds of prompts where you didn't used to maybe even use Google.
50:37
For example, I asked to write a book outline for me proposal.
50:42
>> I wouldn't have thought that [laughter] you could you could probably one shot a book because somebody was outline was actually moderately creative.
50:55
What I expected and this blew me away was that there was a spark of ingenuity to the proposal.
50:59
It wasn't just like right down the middle. Um I tried it on Gemini.
51:05
>> Are you writing a book?
51:06
>> No, but maybe one day.
51:06
You see the problem with long form content is apparently because of token ratio ration rationing rationing. Yeah.
51:13
>> If you try long form content they they'll only spend a certain amount of tokens on you so it degrades.
51:17
So you'd have to write almost like a paragraph or a page at a time otherwise the quality will degrade.
51:23
But the outline the proposal was actually quite good. I did try it on Gemini. It wasn't as good. So I think 5. 1 5.
51:31
1 thinking mode >> actually still has a bit of a human personality and I don't see that when I try the same prompts in Gemini.
51:37
So I think you could build an excellent cutting edge >> person human personality product if you focus and then I think you do need to try a device just to make sure you know you're kind not blindsided by somebody else.
51:52
>> Some of the other stuff though may interfere.
51:54
There's only so much time.
51:55
There's only so much band.
51:55
Sam only has so many hours in the day etc.
51:58
>> Um may interfere with success with CHBT.
52:01
Chad GBT should be a $4 trillion business if you maximize it. >> Yeah. Talk about uh hardware.
52:05
It feels like we're in this weird era where everything is getting more capital intensive earlier and earlier there we >> So this is a good question.
52:15
I think there's some companies where that's true.
52:18
Some types of markets, some types of products.
52:19
I think other people are raising capital for no apparent reason.
52:23
Like let's talk Harvey Legal AI.
52:23
I have a competitor investment that doesn't need a lot of capital. >> Which one are you in?
52:29
>> Uh it's called Spellbook. >> Spellbook.
52:30
They target somewhat different markets, but they directionally legal, >> but there's no real reason to spend that money.
52:37
Like like in other words, their compute costs can't be that high. >> Sure.
52:40
Because they should be able to pass that through as gross margin.
52:41
Like they should have good gross margins on day one.
52:44
>> So when I invest in AI companies, so 2/3 or 3/4 somewhere in between of all my investments over the last 18 months are AI based. >> Yes.
52:50
>> Most of the application layer but not all. >> Yes.
52:53
>> Of the application layer ones.
52:53
I expect them to have positive gross margins.
52:56
Extremely positive gross margins.
52:58
Actually, I'm like, you have to build a business, too.
53:00
>> And I don't believe in these excuses.
53:02
Now, if you're building frontier models and cutting edge or you're going to do hardware, you're clearly going to spend money or infrastructure clearly going to lose money intentionally.
53:08
And that's always been true in tech.
53:10
But if you're building an application layer, I don't buy that margin upside down.
53:15
>> There was this hilarious uh expose on HackerNews about uh AI startups that aren't actually training their own models. They're just rappers.
53:21
And they were breaking down the gross market.
53:22
was like, "This is a VC's like like celebration because they were like >> the only thing that was bad is they were kind of making the claim that they were like training models when they're not."
53:34
But the the my takeaway was that like the rapper market is extremely healthy in certain in certain markets >> because workflow like if it you have to productize things. Yeah.
53:44
>> Like if I'm working as an investment banker >> Yeah.
53:47
>> or an accountant or a lawyer, >> you it's not just the performance of the bottle that I care about.
53:52
It's like how efficient, how improve, how how does it improve my life. Yes.
53:55
And that's a function of how intuitive is the UI, how easy does it make the entire job to be done, so to speak, uh, be able to be accomplished.
54:04
So, it's not just a model performance.
54:05
I think when I'm looking for like a consu like an application layer, uh, CEO, I want them to really understand what their ability for, why, and what the P&L impact to their target customers are.
54:15
Like in legal, like it's actually a complicated question because of the billable power.
54:18
You don't necessarily want to make your lawyers more efficient if you're on a law firm.
54:23
>> We've been talking we've been talking about this so much.
54:24
We had a I know a lawyer who switched firms because he knew he was with a big like probably top 30 law firm.
54:30
He's like they are not going to adjust in time.
54:32
Like there's no in they're like we like that our associates are just running up hours on tasks that could be oneshotted by AI.
54:40
>> I built 300 3,600 hours my last month as a lawyer.
54:43
And and and what what the last month is Yeah.
54:46
Next time someone tells you they're working too hard in tech.
54:49
Although I literally build three 3,600 hours.
54:52
That was not my average month, but still I hit over 3,000 a few months a year though.
54:56
Usually today we'll do like a few thousand.
54:58
The culture has degraded to like >> Wait, but uh how do you build 3,000 in a year?
55:05
>> I wasn't anywhere near the top 5% for a year. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 3 Oh, sorry. Here it is.
55:12
360 hours in January 2000. >> Okay.
55:15
Okay, that makes sense because the top associates in S&T were over 3,000 for the year.
55:20
Yeah, I'd be like 26 2700. So, I was a slacker.
55:25
>> Uh I mean, you're a buyer of legal products as well as an investor in legal AI products.
55:28
Are you advising your uh your portfolio companies to push harder on their law firms to get >> Well, they are.
55:36
So, every founder I know actually uses chatbt for legal research.
55:40
Then they call up their lawyer and their lawyer's giving them advice and they're literally sometimes they're actually screenshotting and saying what you're telling me is wrong.
55:47
>> Does CHBT need some like legal like clearly a lot of people are using it, but there was just a judgment today that was requiring CHBD to turn over a bunch of stuff.
55:56
>> So it's not technically not privileged.
55:58
So it's complicated to use it.
55:58
They could >> we'll see how the law evolves, but it's probably the right decision as a legal matter.
56:04
Um, but I do know I just had a conversation with a CEO of a more than hundred billion dollar company >> and he has a legal team that spends $40 million a year and he authorized all his lawyers to use chatbt. >> Wow.
56:15
>> He's just like you need to induct you need you need to adopt this tool efficient right of course.
56:20
So if a lawyer technically uses chat GBT it might be privileged but if you as a consumer normal person input stuff like oh you know how do I hide the murder weapon that is definitely not privilege. for them.
56:32
Now, >> I I wonder I wonder if it uh there's certain businesses that uh start and uh build knowing that they're going to get sued a lot.
56:39
I wonder if this levels the playing field for businesses like that that are kind of going after markets that don't want innovation and they can just say like, "Yeah, we would have needed a team of 20 lawyers back in the day, but actually now we can have like a few like really efficient." >> Yeah.
56:51
Well, there are startups in the legal space that basically are a substitute for a lawyer.
56:55
And then there's the legal AI startups that make lawyers more efficient.
56:59
>> And which is uh which is Spellbook?
57:01
Spellbook is making lawyers mostly making lawyers more successful for firms and now for companies.
57:05
We have a lot of like uh actually fortuneous companies because you think about the incentives of a corporate legal department.
57:10
They're different than the law firm frenziers like corporate legal >> departments want to spend less and get faster responses.
57:17
So it makes tons of sense and then you can customize to the culture of that company. Yeah.
57:20
So like eBay uses Spellbook for example and they have their own preferences about how they want to practice law and we can implement that on software versus like Google's not a customer but Google might have different preferences. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
57:33
We we've been seeing this new trend.
57:35
I mean the the the lineage here in legal is clearspire and then atrium and and now people are trying it again.
57:41
What do you think about folks who say uh I was on a particular track where I'd be at a firm now I'm going to start an AI powered firm.
57:51
Should they be raising money or should they just go do that on their own?
57:55
>> Usually the way they start though is a human a ratio of humans and models.
57:56
It's not like just all model, right?
57:59
So you're going to have to pay lawyers for a while and like you want to take the ratio from 80% humans to 80% automation and like hopefully quickly.
58:07
Atrium basically never did that and maybe they didn't have the technology to do it.
58:11
They got hooked on the drug, I think. Yeah.
58:13
Of just like >> I knew some of the machine learning folks at Atrium at the time and they were like, "We're we're close to understanding documents with AI and but close doesn't pay the bills."
58:24
You still need a human in the loop technically for most of these products right now.
58:27
That's going to change and the ratio should be like one human for 99 customers or 99 documents or 9,000 documents and then the economics could work.
58:35
But you I think you would need to raise venture money upfront also maybe for credibility.
58:39
for credibility. there's some signal you know like people are buying enterprise company enterprise all across the globe any vertical are buying AI products that's what's allowed these you know vertical application companies to hit you know 100 million of revenue quickly is there's top down demand at very large
58:54
>> for how do you how do you assess quality of revenue if a founder comes to you and says yeah I am raising at 100 million uh for my first round but I have a $5 million deal with some Fortune 500 company and so it's really not that crazy of a revenue mult But then you start wondering obviously is that going to stick or can they just bounce? >> We ask for the contract actually because
59:15
>> We ask for the contract actually because the terms may vary.
59:16
We call the often ask to call the customer like why are you buying this?
59:20
What do you hope it does you know and achieve?
59:21
What are the business goals?
59:22
How confident are you that you're achieving those business goals?
59:26
So that's actually a pretty standard reference. Yeah.
59:29
Yeah. Does that mean that uh like the level of the level of due diligence required on these deals even if the early stage like this the the the round numbers it might still be a seed but it's a bigger number you're treating it with the due diligence that you would bring to an I think I think you do need to look at what's the source of the
59:46
revenue what are the terms of that relationship are they a pilot permanent do they have cancellation rights and then you can look at the underlying metrics like we always used to which is what's the active usage like ultimately everybody in your organization is using the product even if you have contractual right to cancel, you're not canceling it. So like you can look at MAUs, DAUs,
1:00:01
So like you can look at MAUs, DAUs, all those kind of things.
1:00:03
And actually we do tend to look at that.
1:00:05
I tend to personally look at the engagement metrics as much as the revenue metrics.
1:00:10
You can also look at the margin metrics because ultimately like yeah, if you give away someone pays 5 million that cost you 10, it's a great deal.
1:00:17
[laughter] Like that's not a long-term >> business.
1:00:19
I mean, if you're if you're a enterprise uh you know uh CIO or CTO, uh you're probably getting pitched some stuff where you're like, "Wait, I was going to buy those tokens anyway."
1:00:27
Yeah, was going to be and I don't even have the infrastructure to run it.
1:00:31
So, it's like totally I don't have to buy I don't have totally >> there was a lot of bearishness around certain vertical specific AI tools and enterprise AI after that MIT report came out that nobody read the source material uh and and uh just anecdotally it feels incorrect.
1:00:49
incorrect. Uh but uh I think the the simplistic way to look at it is like will large companies spend more on AI in 2026 than 2025 and I think like you lean like >> the answer is definitely yes I mean I think you could critique you're right nobody read the report they just write look at the highline you know X or
1:01:06
something but I think it comes down to as talked about the quality of the implementation if you have the right people implementing it you're going to get high quality results if you just think the software is just going to show up out of the box it's going to work and transformation highly unlikely unless the product was designed to be that way. There are a few products that you see
1:01:22
There are a few products that you see that you know are designed for a consumer to just like or user like an average employee to just use out of the box. That's pretty rare.
1:01:30
Usually you have some implementation hurdle and I suspect a lot of these things are getting trapped in the implementation sort of you know uh box somewhere. >> Yeah.
1:01:41
>> You guys have stayed out of the prediction market wars.
1:01:44
>> We have not invested in a prediction market.
1:01:45
Is that was that uh like was there a moment where you wanted to and the dynamics of the round didn't work out or was that a conscious choice?
1:01:53
>> It's a it's a good question and I had the maybe I've been burned because I helped uh start and like seed invested way back in the day this thing called blueap which is an early prediction market.
1:02:03
Um it's a really cool product Kevin Hartz Javin and I worked with this founder on back in the day like 2005 or six >> from uh YouTube or PayPal. >> Yeah. Yeah. Right.
1:02:12
There's never any new There's never any new ideas.
1:02:15
>> We we could never get it to work.
1:02:15
The hardest part that made it work wasn't like on the better side or the the wager side.
1:02:20
It was actually getting enough bats.
1:02:23
>> And maybe now with AI, you can scalably create enough interesting bets.
1:02:26
We had to do it by hand and we just never [clears throat] could get that treadmill working >> or you maybe didn't do sports bet sports.
1:02:33
>> Well, we didn't do sports betting. It was illegal.
1:02:34
So, yeah, obviously the on traction has been sports and then cleverly politics.
1:02:39
We did have political bets there.
1:02:41
Um and so anyway, maybe I was burned by that.
1:02:44
Then there's another question which is I like the political markets. Yeah.
1:02:51
>> How you know I said we're bold early and impactful.
1:02:53
You do have to start think about which market segments are actually positive impact in society.
1:02:57
Like just giving average Americans more places to gamble certainly is not something I want to like invest in.
1:03:02
Now there are markets that are illquid and they the byproduct of the liquidity is a good thing for society like politics. Yep.
1:03:08
But I don't want too many people speculating like Americans don't have a lot of money.
1:03:14
>> They gamble, that's fine.
1:03:14
They bet on sports now, which maybe is fine.
1:03:16
They bet on crypto whether they call it that or not.
1:03:20
So adding more speculation to the American, you know, consumer, I'm not sure is something I want to, you know, invest.
1:03:26
>> How much how much attention healthy American consumer?
1:03:28
How much attention have you paid to just this tension between states clearly want to regulate this stuff and yet the CFTC has decided like hey these are event contracts like we're it's under our jurisdiction.
1:03:38
How how have you kind of like watched that play out?
1:03:42
>> Well obviously the poly market guys have played their cards really well.
1:03:43
Um controversial you know at the beginning probably very high risk.
1:03:47
You know Alfred I saw Alfred Lynn talking about a little bit.
1:03:51
I'm sure he probably opposed it, but the founder was pretty tenacious and it worked out.
1:03:55
Or, you know, they all played the regulatory cards, you know, in interesting different ways.
1:03:58
Um, so it's worked out well for them.
1:04:00
Uh, >> but the story is not over.
1:04:04
>> Well, I think they're in pretty good shape.
1:04:06
Um, you know, they the biggest issue they had historically was more not more US citizens were using their products before they were supposed to. Yeah.
1:04:16
>> But it I think the statute of limitations might sort of be hitting on that. >> Sure. Yeah. It's fascinating.
1:04:19
Do you think this will be a political issue in the next cycle?
1:04:22
Uh in terms of tech stuff that we've been monitoring, it feels like the uh the the AI data center energy use, water use, like those are the questions that people want to answer in DC.
1:04:34
Job displacement stuff >> displacement is obviously top.
1:04:38
>> That's a bigger question than than okay. Yeah.
1:04:40
Like my, you know, my uncle, he was always a sports veteran, now he uses a different platform.
1:04:44
Like uh it's kind of >> I think unless people start losing a lot of money.
1:04:48
So, you know, in sports betting, you definitely have this.
1:04:50
You have the opposite of Wales people, you know, Wales the company, but like people lose massive amount of money and that becomes a really sad story for them, for their family, and it becomes a political issue.
1:05:00
Then >> if for some reason you get more more people betting, betting, wagering, whatever, predicting, >> but they're not like massively exposed.
1:05:09
I think that it won't be a political issue. >> Yeah. Yeah.
1:05:11
Um, we I mean, we've been tracking AI diffusion.
1:05:13
We're obviously excited about a lot of the products getting in people's hands like like Spellbook, like law like law firm for like legal AI.
1:05:20
Uh at the same time, we're just not seeing that much job displacement.
1:05:24
Maybe it's coming, but it feels like there are if whatever's happening when somebody lays people off, it's probably not because they're just, oh, now it's just a prompt.
1:05:32
Uh but but do you think tech needs to do a better job of telling that story or understanding how? >> Absolutely.
1:05:39
Tech is not I mean you know I was in a speech that President Trump gave and he says like I don't like the terms artificial intelligence.
1:05:43
You guys need better branding >> and nobody's come up with a better answer.
1:05:47
I think someone should like artificial intelligence sounds scary.
1:05:49
It sounds bad artificial when you say like you're having artificial sweeteners you know.
1:05:55
So like I think you can rebrand it like that. >> Yeah.
1:05:58
Now it really is like a power up.
1:06:01
Like if you're very creative, >> credit to Sachi Nadella and and the Microsoft folks like like co-pilot feels like okay I have a helpful assistant that's alongside me.
1:06:08
Does the co-pilot ever put the pilot out of business? Never. >> Not yet. Not yet.
1:06:12
Maybe you have a long tail kind of situational planes that makes it prudent.
1:06:18
But I I don't think there's there's going to be job elimination.
1:06:22
I think there's going to be job substitution. >> Sure.
1:06:25
>> You know, we're going to we need more data centers.
1:06:26
Well, to build data centers requires a lot of advanced plumbing, >> a lot of advanced electricians.
1:06:31
These people get paid a lot of money. Um, like Yeah.
1:06:38
3 to 5x easily the median income in the United States.
1:06:40
So, we're going to be building a lot of infrastructure.
1:06:43
Building infrastructure creates jobs.
1:06:45
Are the people who, you know, are doing this now >> going to have to substitute something else? Maybe.
1:06:51
>> But I don't I do think there is going to be some substitution for white collar work like accounting, lawyers, maybe do primary care doctors. >> Yeah.
1:06:59
>> So, what advice would you give to um high school student?
1:07:03
>> I think you're still like read learn reading, writing and math very well.
1:07:08
>> Even though the computers can read, they can write and you can definitely do math.
1:07:10
>> You need to know the fundamentals.
1:07:10
I mean like there's a research paper I I I retweeted this week about if you if you handw write your notes versus type your notes in class on any metric you match back >> and where if they're in middle school, if they're in high school, should they be fighting to the nail to get into the Ivy League? Where are they going? Where are they learning?
1:07:26
>> Oh, that's a good question.
1:07:26
Chill fellows seem to work out well. It does. I'm a fan.
1:07:28
I'm not, you know, my kids are four.
1:07:30
I I hope by the time they're better, they better not have to go to college by the time they [laughter] grow up. It' be really sad.
1:07:37
>> You're not saving for it. >> I know. >> Sorry. No college on AI.
1:07:40
[laughter] Um, we'll get a little data center.
1:07:43
What about what about for the the the next generation of entrepreneurs that are just getting to Silicon Valley right now and they're seeing a trend of what we call like the deal guy yuga, the deal guy era.
1:07:55
This idea that uh it used to be you get to Silicon Valley and you're writing code and you're in and you're in the basement or you're in the garage.
1:08:03
You write the code and then you put it on the internet and everyone shows up and your elegant algorithm just produces Google and you create a trillion dollars in value and it's because you're the PhD scientist, you're the mathematician that you get rewarded.
1:08:14
And now it feels like you can maybe make it in Silicon Valley maybe not caring so much about the technical aspects but instead about the deals putting pieces together.
1:08:24
>> So the funny thing though is like people use Sam as an example of this but like he was running a research lab for years and and so like even though like >> he was like he was a CS dropout.
1:08:32
>> he was like he was a CS dropout. He was yeah he was also a CS drama and like definitely built like an app uh bubble yeah he built an app but now so the reason why it's scary and this is maybe betraying my age is back in the late
1:08:43
bubble internet bubble 96 2000 there used to be all these what we used to call business dev people running around all the companies and all doing all these deals >> and then the bubble collapsed >> and every a lot of people ascribed the bubble and collapse to these business dev people. >> Oh interesting. >> Oh interesting.
1:08:57
>> So everybody stopped using the label.
1:08:59
When was the last time you met a business dev person like never like for the last 25 years. BDR BDR rebranded.
1:09:04
Well, Bisdev was like higher like partnerships.
1:09:09
>> I was like I come to you I say Keith I'm going to I'm going to give you $100 million of revenue.
1:09:12
Funny enough I'm also going to give you invest $100 million in the company.
1:09:17
I'm going to give you $100 million in revenue.
1:09:18
That was the classic that was the classic example.
1:09:21
So that's how I started my career in tech actually was a business head person.
1:09:24
And if you look at my LinkedIn profile it's still there [laughter] >> but it became like this you know sort of negative signal on your resume.
1:09:30
negative signal on your resume. those business have people running around and so everybody's doing that now that is a scary indication that maybe we're hitting you know something >> yeah yeah so I mean would your advice to new entrepreneurs say ignore the noise ignore the frothy rounds uh retreat to
1:09:47
what product market fit programming >> I I think look ultimately deliver value I think it's actually really simple building a startup >> it's like you create a value proposition >> yes >> and then you explain the value proposition to people >> and then you actually yeah there's
1:10:03
product there's market you know that's basically it like what is my value proposition to who like what do I do for you that's good for you it could be good for your business it can be good for your life and then can I articulate that in a way that causes you to interrupt your life and test it out and verify
1:10:16
those claims and then rinse and repeat so you can create a value proposition through massive use of technology create it through design you can create it through the intersection of humans design and technology it doesn't actually matter but you have to have a very crisp succinct compelling value proposition. In business cases, you want
1:10:32
In business cases, you want to move the P&L of your customers.
1:10:34
Like I had an enterprise company, maybe the only enterprise, true enterprise company I ever funded and joined the board of where our first customer is Walmart.
1:10:44
Everybody's like, "No, how's Walmart going to be your first customer?"
1:10:45
And they spent $5 million on us.
1:10:48
>> The reason why was we figured out there was one of the top three priorities for the company we could address.
1:10:52
Our second customer was AT&T, another classic customer.
1:10:57
spent 10 million or it was a telecom. It wasn't an ATD.
1:11:00
It was a different telecom actually.
1:11:01
Next we could our technology allowed them to understand their churn better.
1:11:06
What's the only issue in the telecom business? Churn. Subscriber churn.
1:11:09
That's the only thing that matters and like you know cuz they all compete on like churn.
1:11:15
>> Somebody else is going to offer.
1:11:16
>> Nobody had a technology that could literally take all their data and actually figure out why people were returning.
1:11:21
So if you have a right the correct value proposition all the rules are changed.
1:11:25
So just dial into the value proposition and then figuring out how to articulate it, which sometimes can be different for my post.
1:11:30
Sometimes you have actually marketing fit and sometimes you actually have your product positioning fit and sometimes you actually have value proposition fit.
1:11:38
>> Sometimes you start with both, but sometimes you're bad at one and it kind of masks and is not clear that you're actually really good at >> marketing market.
1:11:46
Marketing market fit will mask the lack of product market fit for about a year.
1:11:51
>> The other one the other one doesn't get masked.
1:11:53
It's hard sometimes hard to fix.
1:11:55
Like you may go back to the product and think you don't have a value prop. You actually do.
1:11:58
You just can't explain it.
1:12:00
>> Uh because you only get a certain amount of attention to explain. You got to distill it.
1:12:03
Once you distill it to the right people, then it might take off without changing the product. But that's the art.
1:12:07
True CRO is actually good at this art of triangulation. >> Mhm.
1:12:12
>> Uh how do you uh there's been some kind of coalitions or or not really coalitions, but uh Walmart and Etsy have leaned into LLM commerce.
1:12:19
They've partnered with OpenAI.
1:12:22
Amazon and eBay have not yet. Shopify has.
1:12:25
How do you who do you think is going to look smart in two years for like leaning into these platforms early?
1:12:34
>> They're leaning into learn.
1:12:34
So there's a question, are they leaning in or are they leaning into learn?
1:12:37
Leaning into learn is a great idea.
1:12:38
Like if you're Shopify, of course, like will people use ChachiP in a way that leads to product discovery and product purchases?
1:12:45
>> We had a friend of ours has a Shopify brand.
1:12:47
They do like 200 million of revenue.
1:12:48
He says uh people that land on his site from chatbt convert at 12%. >> Incredible.
1:12:56
>> That that I agree with.
1:12:56
Sure that's true cuz they take they it's authoritative the recommendation the the signal it's better than a blue link.
1:13:03
>> However, the question is the volume and what's the increase in that volume like how much of today. >> Yeah.
1:13:08
So that's the question is what does that change and what triggers that change? What catalyzes it?
1:13:12
But I mean you know we invested in a company called profound day. They're sponsor. >> Yeah.
1:13:19
So they allow you as a brand to track how various whether it's Gemini chatp etc are showcasing your products and brands.
1:13:26
That's critical to the future.
1:13:29
>> But what consumers ultimately decide to do they actually start using chatp to recommend the next tennis shoe to them or not?
1:13:36
I think in some vertical almost surely yes.
1:13:39
>> I want I want Christmas data so badly.
1:13:39
I I I feel like this is the first year that we're really going to get an answer.
1:13:45
At least the labs will now.
1:13:45
I don't know if we'll figure it out, but uh about the agentic shopping, just the propensity.
1:13:51
>> So, let me give you an example of something they can solve.
1:13:52
So, like think you're a guy and you want to buy a new blazer like I need a blazer so I don't look like ridiculous on like a nice Christmas >> sweater.
1:14:01
So, I got to figure out what what blazer is going to fit me off the rock.
1:14:05
I don't have time to get a tailor. >> Sure.
1:14:08
>> Almost an impossible task like today. >> Yeah.
1:14:10
>> Yeah. Like like literally like you would actually even if you know your fashion you almost an impossible task like you might know your brands might >> I can imagine though chatb kind of knows >> you know what I buy how it fits what things I return what things I don't over time
1:14:25
>> and just says Keith go to Hugo Boss >> y >> 38 or 48 or 42 will it fit you off the rack like that is something that doesn't exist online and there's a lot of latent demand for consumers not to go to retail like the reason why I go to retail typically is I either need something immediately or I need to try it on. >> Yeah. Yeah. There's also this >> Yeah. Yeah.
1:14:43
There's also this interesting thing where uh chat and basically every LLM has been only pull in the sense that you have to go and prompt it.
1:14:51
It never just sends you a push notification and says here they they're experimenting with with pulse.
1:14:56
So they'll say okay we know that you like venture capital news and you like learning about data center.
1:15:00
They have depp prioritized it, but I still think that there's a glimmer of something valuable there where they could proactively send you results.
1:15:07
It's very comput intensive and I don't know if they got the form factor right, but there's clearly there's clearly a glimmer of something.
1:15:16
>> There's a glimmer there.
1:15:16
The question is going to be the quality, right?
1:15:17
Like ultimately if Yeah, totally magical, but I'm going to >> react to the first five they send me and either love it >> or hate it and they're not going to get a second shot. Totally. Totally. Totally.
1:15:28
>> So, I think that's hard to do in a beta. >> No, no, no.
1:15:30
It's hard, but uh I think over time the scale like all the math and like the actual value we've seen it work with like some of the Instagram ads where you're like, "Wow, I didn't even know I wanted that. It's really cool. People are satisfied." I think that will come.
1:15:42
>> People are also more comfortable sharing data with CHP than any other tech product I've ever seen.
1:15:46
So, I think like my sizing and things like that, you know, if they allow me, if I put that in memory, it makes it a hell of a lot easier.
1:15:53
>> So, so help me square that because I feel like that's true.
1:15:54
I feel like people have these incredibly personal conversations with LLMs.
1:15:58
They use them for all these funny things.
1:16:00
They're obviously seeing AI search results.
1:16:02
And yet AI as a whole feels like the most unpopular technology in decades.
1:16:07
And >> well, I think it may be a 1% issue too.
1:16:13
Like there's a lot of people who are motivated for their own reasons, you know, to cause uh to create negative feedback on be [laughter] 5 years ago.
1:16:23
There was a lot of interviews that happened where they were talking about job loss and and just like totally >> well even Sam made the mistake of like talking about UBI.
1:16:30
We need UBI like this is a mistake.
1:16:33
>> We need UBI because there's going to be job loss.
1:16:34
Well, first of all there's not going to be job loss as we were talking about arguably but B like highlighting that a decade before any of that happens.
1:16:40
Makes no sense whatsoever.
1:16:40
And UBI by the way is a terrible solution.
1:16:44
So [laughter] for all those reasons it created like more fear.
1:16:46
And then the safety hoax people the people are always creating hoaxes about it's literally a hoax.
1:16:51
Safety is a complete hoax. This is my challenge.
1:16:54
Name a single person who believes we have an AI safety issue that's been right about any political issue for 50 years.
1:17:00
>> Every single person who's talking about safety has been wrong on the environment, has been wrong on equality and all that nonsense.
1:17:06
So like I just don't believe any of this because the people are all always finding excuse for bureaucrats to interfere with progression.
1:17:14
>> I mean that that I I hear you.
1:17:14
That's just like that's kind of sad for our tech community because uh >> well, as you know, a lot of people a lot of people in tech though have very sad views. Yeah. [laughter] Yeah.
1:17:22
But what I mean is like is like Mark Zuckerberg has deal has dealt with a lot of attacks on like social media is bad, right?
1:17:28
But at least you got 5 years of people kind of liking posting Instagrams, you know, people kind of liked social media before they started critiquing it.
1:17:36
AI day one immediately >> which is critical like you know uh there's this old there's this old like line that's stuck in my brain from when uh Nuke Gingrich was speaker of the house.
1:17:50
He said, you know, if the electric light had been invented today, it would absolutely be banned because it would have threatened the candle making industry.
1:17:56
You know, the safety, you know, it actually was somewhat unsafe.
1:18:00
Actually, thousand people died, >> but we never would have allowed electricity and think about society without electricity.
1:18:06
>> Yeah, we have feedback loop on fear and and actually taking action and then monetizing that fear or one way or another.
1:18:13
>> And we saw this with nuclear power.
1:18:13
>> And we saw this with nuclear power. you see if you see a a an AI like video uh that was generated and it's bad you're like I don't want to lose my job to this thing that I don't like you know and so I I I >> well we have to remember people also there's a bell curve distribution of
1:18:30
people's content let's take video >> of all the humans assume there's no technology >> what fraction of human generated video is great >> or good even >> it's probably a fairly small fraction >> but then you see the AI you're like oh >> you know this is terrible it's >> the guy that made this said I'm going to lose my job and that I'm going to need UBI. Why don't we just stop all of this
1:18:47
Why don't we just stop all of this >> alto together? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
1:18:50
It's a little bit like Paul Graham had this epic uh blog post about, you know, if someone um unfortunately like meets someone, you know, and sexually assaults them at a grocery store like Safeway.
1:18:59
It's not like a front page news story for the New York Times that I mean this happens all across the country unfortunately.
1:19:04
God forbid, you know, someone meets someone on Instagram in a DM.
1:19:08
Front page news story, you know, something bad god awful happens.
1:19:12
But it's the grocery, you know, versus the new technology.
1:19:14
And so, you have to always remember that people are going to critique the new technology differently than what the real risk in the real world is.
1:19:21
That's actually probably more material.
1:19:24
>> Uh, we have a couple minutes left.
1:19:24
Uh, and we're here at NIC.
1:19:26
What's your IPO kind of like outlook?
1:19:30
How are you thinking about 2026?
1:19:31
You think a lot >> got some good ones coming up for you hopefully.
1:19:34
Um, you know, ventures going out.
1:19:37
>> We've heard rumors about some other funds.
1:19:38
We are definitely I can assure you we are not going to be we have never had the conversation about whether we should be a public company.
1:19:46
We're in the craft business rumor swirl. IBO rumor swirl. >> Absolutely not.
1:19:50
We'll let someone else do that. But who else?
1:19:53
>> But um you know obviously we've been involved in really good companies.
1:19:54
Ramp your sponsor obviously is phenomenal.
1:19:58
Can be a public company whenever they choose to be.
1:19:59
Um got a trade republic in Europe.
1:20:02
Not as many people are paying attention to. Great future company. Um there's a bunch.
1:20:06
like so I'm excited about the future.
1:20:09
>> Saw there was some news that SpaceX is maybe thinking about going out next year.
1:20:12
>> I don't have any inside information there.
1:20:14
I mean I read I read the same thing.
1:20:15
I think it would be great.
1:20:15
You know it's 202 years or [laughter] something. >> Yeah.
1:20:20
A long time and also just a lot of Elon fans have been riding with Tesla for a long time and that's unlocked to invest private.
1:20:28
They'll take it back public at some point that you can invest.
1:20:30
through what what you're advising uh those portfolio founders without naming names, but uh uh on whether or not how they should be thinking about timing an IPO.
1:20:40
You've obviously been along for the ride on many uh what are you counseling them on where when to do it?
1:20:45
>> Well, I'm always a fan of Go Public as early as possible. Okay. Yeah.
1:20:47
So, I wrote a whole chapter in Eli Gil's book, High Growth Handbook that explains why.
1:20:52
>> One of the best books in industry. >> It's a great book. I have two chapters.
1:20:56
One about hiring and then one about going public. Sure.
1:20:57
My general view is $50 million in revenue plus predictability.
1:21:01
You should be a public company. >> Wow.
1:21:04
>> Uh there there's so many benefits of being public.
1:21:05
Um so I'm always counseling when you're as soon as you possibly can go early, not late.
1:21:11
>> What about what about burning money?
1:21:11
I feel like there's another bar which says, hey, if you're a public company, you shouldn't need to raise money anymore. Has that changed?
1:21:18
>> Well, it depends on the company.
1:21:18
Some businesses are profitable.
1:21:20
Like Trade Republic wouldn't need to raise money, for example.
1:21:24
Uh we actually pay taxes already.
1:21:26
Yeah, [laughter] I've actually never had that happen to me.
1:21:29
I've never been on a board of a company that's actually paying taxes cuz you know you to pay to pay corporate taxes, you actually have to offset loan and profit.
1:21:36
So like we're such a great company.
1:21:38
You burn through all your care. >> Exactly. Wow. That's fantastic. Well, thank you so much.
1:21:41
Is there anything else we should talk about being why why New York? Why are you here? Is it the ramp mafia?
1:21:47
You want to make sure you pick off all >> pick off all?
1:21:50
So we actually looked at my geographic investments.
1:21:52
So I mentioned AI is 2/3.
1:21:53
New York is the number one geo has been the number one geo for me for five or six years.
1:21:57
It's about 60% of all my investments.
1:22:02
Application layer stuff, financial services, you know, like Imprint, RAMP, a lot of great companies.
1:22:07
Basis, accounting AI, Robo, Investment Banking, AI, Traa is here, you know, RAM, they a great set of companies here.
1:22:14
So, and then it's better for me to be on the East Coast for like personal reasons, >> of course.
1:22:20
Well, we appreciate you taking the time to come down. This is fantastic.
1:22:22
I'm sure we'll catch up with you soon.
1:22:25
>> Thanks for the invite.
1:22:26
>> Have a good rest of your day.
1:22:26
I'm going to tell you about Numel. >> Compliance handled.
1:22:29
I think I already told you about Numeral, so I'm going to tell you about Figma again.
1:22:33
>> Think bigger, build faster.
1:22:33
Figma helps design and development teams build great products together.
1:22:36
And our next guest is Lin Martin, the president of the New York.
1:22:41
>> While we wait, uh Dan Sroker's company, Limitless, has been acquired by Meta.
1:22:46
>> Oo, congratulations to him.
1:22:48
>> There's a video here that we cannot play, but Meta acquires AI wearable startup Limitless.
1:22:52
Ooh, I we were talking about I feel like there's a lot of opportunity in the AI wearable space.
1:22:57
There's a lot of cool stuff happening and like it just feels like fertile playground.
1:23:00
I feel like it'd be a fun time to be a hardware hacker.
1:23:02
We talked about that transcription hard piece of hardware that's making $250 million out of nowhere.
1:23:08
Uh very interesting companies.
1:23:10
There's obviously cool things to do.
1:23:12
to do. a lot of the a lot of the the you know the the the the a lot of the attention goes to the rabbit R1 the uh the friend pin the humane AI pin but there's cool stuff happening all over the industry and so uh yeah again voice recorder they had a hardware device >> amazing
1:23:30
>> uh notable that yeah again Limitless I don't think was able to crack uh like real growth with the hardware but that company Plaude has and very so uh but again this is great outcome for for them uh I'm sure the whole Limitless seem as uh >> and let me tell you about privy. Privy
1:23:43
Privy makes it easy to build on crypto rails, securely spam white label wallets, sign transactions, and integrate onchain infrastructure all through one simple API.
1:23:53
Um what else is going on in the timeline, Jordy? >> Let's see here.
1:23:58
Uh >> yeah, I I mentioned this briefly in the conversation with uh with Keith, but apparently OpenAI must turn over 20 million chat logs to PL >> Judge Ona Wang has ruled. >> Yeah.
1:24:12
>> Um >> you have to send an email to a to a server that adds a Chat GPT response in with your lawyer CC.
1:24:20
That's how you maintain confidentiality.
1:24:25
Harvey who Keith also al also mentioned raised 160 million at a $8 billion valuation [laughter] this is why Keith was talking about 2% dilution round from A16C they 3x revenue this year to 150 million they raised 300 million from Sequoia at 3 billion in January 300 million at 5 billion from KOU and KP in June and then 160 at 8 from A16Z shout out to Spencer and the boys at at uh COU a little mark up there.
1:24:56
>> And I feel like I feel like law firms have got to be pretty discerning on making this purchase decision at this point.
1:25:00
Like it's not it's not entirely exploratory budget anymore.
1:25:02
And it's not viral like something that's like oh it's like a flash in the pan and then all of a sudden like they're not going to be able to monitor. >> Yeah.
1:25:10
My question is like if anybody that wants to say like oh this is like out of control it's like do you think they'll be able to get to like a billion dollars of revenue?
1:25:18
dollars of revenue? legal industry is pretty big and and it's been traditionally pretty hard >> and they actually they actually so so the labor displacement thing does feel real here because I do think a law firm would say hey currently we have 100 associates we can condense that down to
1:25:34
about 20 and do the same amount of work by working with uh with something like Harvey and again the the vibe had had uh at least uh with a a lawyer buddy of mine had shifted drastically with Harvey a year ago he was saying uh we're like using it a little But now he's like it's oneshotting stuff that uh I didn't think it would. >> He says I'm I'm oneshotted actually by
1:25:53
>> He says I'm I'm oneshotted actually by >> I'm one uh >> well oneshot your data anal your data analysis with Julius AI the AI data analyst that works for you.
1:26:05
>> Uh this is >> join millions who use Julius to connect their data ask questions.
1:26:09
>> We should have got Rahul here.
1:26:09
You should have we should have told him to come here and be in the capital with us.
1:26:15
Uh >> we'll do that soon.
1:26:16
>> YC has a new company called the hog. Oh, wait. Really?
1:26:20
>> It's called the Palunteer for Go to Market.
1:26:21
We were just We were just talking about >> uh Yeah, we were talking about swine themed startup names. You have Pig.
1:26:26
You have >> apparently carried no interest.
1:26:29
Watch their launch video twice.
1:26:30
I evaluate software businesses for a living.
1:26:32
Still no idea what Hog does. >> Good to see you. >> Great to see you. >> Good to see you.
1:26:43
>> I have your green situation. A green sandwich.
1:26:46
But it is I mean yesterday uh we were greeted by a number of folks into your team.
1:26:50
Everyone was dressed to the nines when festive and fantastic.
1:26:52
It was the tree lighting right.
1:26:56
>> So this is every year.
1:26:56
Walk us through exactly what happened. There were mascots. There's celebrities.
1:26:59
Everything >> they were singing.
1:27:01
>> Oh seen the tree outside.
1:27:01
It's CFOs, celebrities, mascots, charitable organizations.
1:27:07
Um >> all celebrating the holiday season.
1:27:10
We had about 10,000 people. >> 10,000 we heard.
1:27:15
No, it was crazy because we walked in. We walked in yesterday.
1:27:16
It felt like there was an IPO going. It >> felt like an IPO.
1:27:20
>> It feel like Sienna was IPOing and then and then today uh we were like, "Oh, okay."
1:27:25
Actually, this is a huge event.
1:27:27
>> You know, Hankeria actually made a joke that he was IPOing yesterday celebrities. He did a spot.
1:27:34
>> But I mean, it's a great opportunity for our list of companies to get some visibility, particularly the consumer focused brands.
1:27:40
There were about 30 different tents outlining Wall Street.
1:27:44
celebrates the downtown community.
1:27:44
It's a great opportunity to generate business and give it give a bit back.
1:27:50
>> What other big events like treelighting that are kind of off of like like things that you can count on happening every year?
1:27:55
What's on the calendar regularly at the New York Stock Exchange?
1:27:59
>> You know, we do a lot around the >> is it like Fourth of July?
1:28:04
>> We do a lot Fourth of July, Memorial Day, like those types of holidays to celebrate Veterans Day, to celebrate our military.
1:28:12
anytime there's something to celebrate our military and people who have served this great country.
1:28:15
It's all about giving back and highlighting >> what makes this country great.
1:28:23
Obviously, one of the things that makes this company, this country great is our phenomenal uh capital markets. >> Yes. Yes.
1:28:30
>> Um and it's really a unique differentiator. >> There you go. Love that.
1:28:33
But then also like our military, the people who selflessly protect us every single day.
1:28:41
And then the not for-profit, the charitable organizations who so many of our listed companies support.
1:28:46
As part of the treelighting, we >> we highlight um the charitable organizations that our listed companies support.
1:28:55
And this year we have 400 of our listed companies >> that have contributed to that program.
1:29:02
So all throughout the season, we like to to highlight that people who have done good things but also are paying it forward. >> Yeah.
1:29:11
And and we we heard that uh in in 10 years there has never been an IPO that landed exactly on the tree lighting.
1:29:18
uh that some of some of is close some of >> have come what's the latest what's the latest in December that that uh that that you remember an an actual like IPO happening >> the week before Christmas I think I think New Bank >> yeah New Bank in 2021 was a pretty late IPO I don't remember if it was >> uh the 19th or the 20th of December that's That's basically a ton of that.
1:29:50
>> Well, that's that's that's basically the last day that I think the e-commerce brands can like you can place an order and still get the product.
1:29:56
That's kind of like the last day of business basically. >> Exactly. The rush, right? Right. >> Yeah.
1:30:01
When when is the holiday season?
1:30:04
When is the stock exchange dark? How much time?
1:30:07
>> You know, we're not really ever dark.
1:30:10
Um, if I look at the calendar for the next couple of weeks, for example, we have a ton of ETFs going out, which is actually not >> received as much coverage as the IPOs of operating companies. >> What is that?
1:30:22
What does the pro what does that process look like from from even like road show stage all the way to like uh listing?
1:30:30
>> I mean, that one's a little bit different because you can just launch the ETF and then accumulate aum.
1:30:36
>> I know, but is there any like I mean, but I'm assuming like building.
1:30:37
Well, I'm assuming you're trying to build like attention going into >> uh going into the process.
1:30:45
>> A lot of times you're also spending the time looking at the index you're benchmarking against and back testing the results and then going out to the people who are going to contribute the AUM and show them the performance of the ETF and how it would have performed under stress periods and >> um different macroeconomic events.
1:31:03
What what trends are you seeing in some of these net new ETFs?
1:31:09
>> Uh you know crypto ETFs have been a big uh a big unlock for that industry.
1:31:13
Uh you're seeing just a continuation of various types of ETFs. Equities fixed income. >> Oh interesting. >> As well fixed income.
1:31:23
It's also been a big unlock.
1:31:25
ETFs have been probably one of the greatest financial innovations of our lifetimes.
1:31:33
where it allows someone to invest in an incredibly liquid vehicle >> that has incredibly illquid constituent basket.
1:31:42
So I think of like the fixed income markets which where I came from like the MUN ETFs >> they've been able to accumulate a good amount of assets. crypto.
1:31:51
It's been another >> some folks have been on our show talking about the future of uh you know putting graphics cards in an ETF or getting AI compute or data centers and giving folks more access to that.
1:32:04
I know uh some of the private credit funds we had John Zto on the show yesterday uh from Apollo, but some of the other funds have like taken different funds and IPOed them separately so that they get more direct access.
1:32:15
Uh and I I would expect to see more of that, but I don't know.
1:32:18
I mean, there's been a fair amount of folks who have talked about private private instruments and putting them in in an ETF rapper.
1:32:25
I know Vlad's talked about that from Robin quite a bit >> that he's looking at at that as an opportunity. >> Yeah.
1:32:33
I mean, there's been insatiable demand for uh for private company stock all in Silicon Valley, but it's usually done through angel investing.
1:32:39
uh never really through uh an ETF, but it seems >> structure and how you disclose information and whatnot.
1:32:48
Make sure that you're the basket of assets >> and how and do you actually have a voting share in the ass in the underlying basket?
1:32:56
There's a lot more logistics to work out in that.
1:32:58
But in general, ETFs are going to add a layer of transparency that a lot of these illlquid assets don't have because they're marked to market every day. they have NAV.
1:33:09
At the end of the day, the fund the fund has.
1:33:13
>> There's been some other experiments with trying to bring private shares uh into the public markets that aren't uh that that end up trading like, you know, three four times NAV and then they end up being like the underlying assets can be high quality, but if you're buying them at 4x or something like that, the actual like valuation, it's like you're just lighting money on fire.
1:33:30
2026, uh, everybody everybody's super excited. We just talked to Keith.
1:33:35
He's going to be a big year.
1:33:37
It's going to be a big year.
1:33:39
You know, the year was going really, really well and then you had various events such as Liberation Day in the beginning of the year that sort of shut the window, the IPO window, but obviously it reopened.
1:33:51
So, how we met you guys, here we are.
1:33:53
Um, and then the government shutdown, >> temporarily closed the market as well.
1:34:00
So, a variety of our deals have now pushed into January.
1:34:02
But January, it's gonna be a busy January.
1:34:04
We have really busy Q1 >> and now it feels like momentum because that narrative is out there and these deals are going to go early in the new year.
1:34:16
Momentum's truly building for for the rest of 2026.
1:34:20
But you got to remember you got midterms at the end of 26. >> Oh yes.
1:34:27
>> How how have midterms historically impacted uh just like whether or not I it's kind of uh the the windows open or closed?
1:34:34
probably for a couple weeks before the window will be shut for a bit of time because people are gonna they're going to be >> they're not going to want to go when there's potential volatility in the market.
1:34:46
And anytime you have >> a large group of elections or a monumental election like the election for a president, >> Yeah.
1:34:56
>> you're not going to want to go just before because you just don't know what's going to happen around that election period. >> Yep.
1:35:03
That makes a ton of sense.
1:35:05
>> Well, we just want to say thank you for welcome.
1:35:07
>> I am so psyched to have you here. I mean, look at this. It's still being here. It's still surreal.
1:35:11
Uh and thank you for letting us this be our home uh on the East Coast. It's no better.
1:35:19
Literally could not have picked a better place.
1:35:20
>> Your interview yesterday with Kramer, it >> was so much fun. Oh my gosh.
1:35:24
>> We came off pulling a jack off the he tweeted in the morning.
1:35:27
He was like, "Uh, it could be fun. It could be wild. >> Could be wild. We didn't know."
1:35:31
We got all the all the all the above.
1:35:33
But just we talked about the market, but we also just talked about interviewing building relationship with CEOs over decades.
1:35:39
And uh it just laid a ground the groundwork.
1:35:43
I remember we watched his interview with Tim Cook 15 years ago, a decade ago, and watch how he how he built that relationship.
1:35:51
Uh really remarkable work.
1:35:53
And a lot of it happened in this building.
1:35:54
A lot of it happened right down there. >> Right down there.
1:35:56
Well, we're we're looking forward to eventually joining joining him on on his show.
1:35:59
And uh we I just hope we can bring the same level of energy that he has.
1:36:05
>> You can bring your gong and your panel alongside his panel.
1:36:08
I can't wait to see who's louder on that day.
1:36:15
>> Yeah, we got to hit the gong for the part for the partnership.
1:36:16
Gong hit for the partnership. I will hold this.
1:36:18
This is% the official gong hitting. >> There we go.
1:36:27
That's a good We're going to leave.
1:36:30
We're going to leave these here for you.
1:36:31
So if you're ever you need a boost of energy coffee. >> Thank you so much. >> We appreciate you. >> We will be back soon.
1:36:45
>> The team behind the AI software engineer Devon.
1:36:47
Crush your backlog with your personal AI engineering team.
1:36:50
And I'm also going to tell you about Gemini 3 Pro, Google's most intelligent model yet.
1:36:56
state-of-the-art reasoning, next level vibe coding, and deep multimodal integrations.
1:37:01
Um, what else is in the timeline?
1:37:04
We of course have Emily Sunberg from Feed Me, uh, joining in just a second.
1:37:09
We're very excited to have her on the show.
1:37:11
Uh, but is there anything else in the timeline that we should run through before we bring in Emily from Feed Me? >> Uh, Chrome Hearts.
1:37:19
>> Chrome Hearts >> acquired acquired uh acquired one of my favorite hotels.
1:37:24
Wait, the Surf Surf Rider. >> Oh, they did.
1:37:28
>> I think it was the family, the Starks, the the owners. We've been there.
1:37:30
Dylan Dylan will stay there sometimes when he's in LA.
1:37:35
>> Uh they acquired uh yeah, one of my favorite hotels.
1:37:37
I used to stay there a lot and then I moved like right near it.
1:37:40
And so now I don't have any reason to uh to stay there, unfortunately.
1:37:43
But uh interesting pickup. It's an iconic hotel. They paid more than 1.
1:37:46
8 million per room uh which puts it among Southern California's priciest hotel deals in years. Uh it's just 20 rooms.
1:37:53
Uh and so uh yeah, I don't I don't uh I I was It had been owned by I know the guy who created the hotel.
1:38:05
>> It was basically an impossible task to like redevelop this like basically uh it was an old motel that was kind of crumbling.
1:38:11
He redeveloped it, made it beautiful.
1:38:13
Uh many people said it couldn't be done just because of the coastal commission and just how hard it is to like uh do any type of like development work in Malibu.
1:38:20
He did it, sold it to private equity. I think this is it. trading hands again.
1:38:23
Uh, but I'm excited to see what they do with it.
1:38:27
They've been um they have they've just been in Malibu for so long and and have a great presence there.
1:38:31
So, >> it's a beautiful hotel. I love it.
1:38:34
>> Um, >> and it's fun that it's Chrome Hearts now.
1:38:37
>> Uh, before we move on, let me tell you about Fall, the generative media app platform for developers develop and fine-tune models with serverless GPUs and ondemand clusters.
1:38:46
>> Uh, shout out to Jim O'anosy. >> This is hilarious.
1:38:50
>> He says, "When I say I love Bach, I really mean it."
1:38:51
He listened to 64,000 minutes of Bach last year, which puts him in the 0. 001% of global fan. >> He's just on repeat. Repeat. It's like no Mozart. I don't even drift away. I'm loyal.
1:39:06
I'm riding with Boach 24/7.
1:39:06
How many minutes are in a year?
1:39:09
Can you actually look that up?
1:39:13
>> 60 * 24 * 365 * 24 * 365. He was listening. Okay. Okay.
1:39:22
So, there's 525,000 minutes in a year, I think, if I got that right.
1:39:27
Um, and so he was listening for 60,000 minutes. >> 60,000 minutes.
1:39:32
So, more than 10% of his time.
1:39:36
>> So, that's that's more than 2 hours every day.
1:39:38
This guy's listening to just Bach. >> He's an absolute dog.
1:39:43
>> This is the craziest thing. What happened?
1:39:44
I mean, I feel I didn't even I think I was like top 2% fan on my most played artist or something like that. I got value top 1%. He's the 01%. This is hilarious. Okay. Yeah, we're good.
1:39:55
Let's bring in Emily Sunberg and let's also tell you about getbessel. com.
1:39:59
Shop over [music] 26,500 luxury fully authent.
1:40:08
>> Yeah, good to have you here. >> How's it going? >> Um, it's going great.
1:40:10
Last night we were at a uh an event and uh and the interviewer was asking us a bunch of questions about the business and stuff, but one of the questions that it didn't phase me at the time, but then I talked about it with someone later and I'll give you the question and I want to see how you interpret it.
1:40:25
It was uh if you are on a desert island, you're stranded on a desert island, >> what are three Twitter accounts that you would follow?
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>> Oh, >> maybe do that for Substack.
1:40:38
>> Yeah, >> three Substack accounts.
1:40:38
[clears throat] >> You can do anything.
1:40:39
I I I wound up listing a Substack as well.
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>> It was just technology analyst.
1:40:43
John's just on a desert island just like reading Tom Twitter.
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Um need need uh Joe Weisenthal.
1:40:56
We definitely need Joe Weisenthal. Yes.
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>> Um [clears throat] and then a third probably like a like a Frank O'Hara bot or something that just like automatically gives you some poetry.
1:41:04
You answered the question exactly how I answered the question.
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And then someone came up to me after and was like, "No, like if you're stranded, you need to be h you need to be following like alert services or like the Coast Guard or like >> Oh, right.
1:41:17
You know, pilot a pilot like someone with a plane, >> but also don't stop analyzing technology.
1:41:23
You're just waving you're waving the Joe Weisenthal >> post.
1:41:26
What is Joe Weisthal going to do to get you off that?" Joe would figure out.
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>> He's not going to help you.
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>> He would know that I was missing though and have like task force. >> Okay. Okay.
1:41:35
And you want to know that he's coming for you. >> Yeah. Yeah.
1:41:38
He would give me about >> Wait, speaking of Joe Weisenthal, he recently uh made an appearance on your new podcast. >> He did.
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>> Expense account, >> right?
1:41:47
>> And he had a take that I thought crossed journalistic lines.
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I thought he >> Let's hear it.
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>> He said that Malaysia has the best food in the world. >> Have you been? >> No.
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>> So, how would you know?
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cuz I'm from America and I know America has the best food in the world.
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>> I went to a a birthday party at a Malaysian bar last night. >> Okay. Was it the best food? >> It was great.
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>> Is Malaysian food actually that good?
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>> What is Malaysian food?
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>> It's like >> Name every name every green.
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It's uh Do you like spice? >> Yeah. Yeah, I like spice.
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I'm just saying that like like Malaysia has one type of food. >> It's delicious.
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You should have beef sauté. Beef sauté. I love beef. I love beef sate.
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>> And then like sausage, >> but we have pizza. We have McDonald's.
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We have the Doritos Locos Taco.
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>> Do you have pizza in LA?
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>> No, but in New York, which is again in America, he he was saying on a country bycountry basis, we have Las Vegas.
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>> We have San Francisco.
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We have French We have French Laundry.
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We have all sorts of restaurants.
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>> Have you guys had any great dinners while you've been here?
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>> Uh we had a pretty good dinner last night. >> Where we go?
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>> We went to a steakhouse. It was delicious. >> Which one? >> Hawk something. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah.
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>> Uh but I just think that the variety that you get like I I will give Joe Weisenthal. I've never been.
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But let's give him Malaysia is an A+. It's an A+. Yeah.
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It's like, well, then America has got to be B+ in steak and B+ in French and B+ in sushi and B+ in uh, you know, Italian and all the different all the different genres of cuisines. Awesome. And you add all that. Okay. Okay.
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You're defending really probably saying was like a great this like like probably one or two specific great Malaysian places in New York cuz he has his stops. No, no.
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He was talking about going to Malaysia physically and saying that that being in Malaysia, that's the best food in the world.
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>> Yeah, we went to Hawk Hawkmore. >> We went to it. It was good.
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You're not You're not >> I mean, I haven't been yet, but I'll make I'll make a trip. >> Okay.
1:43:35
Well, uh how how is Expense Account going as a new podcast?
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Are you excited about it? >> It's great. It's a blast.
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You know, it started um Jason, my restaurant columnist, he started writing a column for me a little bit over a year ago called Expense Account.
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And it's sort of about like business guy restaurants, like places where somebody slams the car down. >> Yes.
1:43:56
>> And it was a great column.
1:43:56
And I was reading one of them.
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He joked about having a podcast.
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I called him and I was like, >> "Are you making a show with someone else?"
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>> And he said he he wasn't. >> Yeah. Yeah.
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>> But then I said, "Do you want a show?"
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>> And we made it and Substack and uh Silver Oak Wines >> sponsored season one.
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>> That's a great sponsor. >> Yeah, they're great. to Substack. >> Congratulations. I like that. >> Great. Substack sponsored.
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>> They are the presenting sponsor of season one. >> Very cool. >> Love Substack. >> Yeah.
1:44:26
What I liked about it was uh the fact that I am not really a foodie as you can tell from my >> You guys say that, but you've been having more um culinary conversation. >> Yes.
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But my example of good food in America was the Doritos Locos Taco. >> Baja Blast.
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I like I like a I like a Baja [laughter] Blast. I like a Diet Coke. I like a Red. >> Same. We're on the same page.
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>> So, but but so, so I was worried that I was going to open up the RSS feed and see a bunch of names that I didn't recognize.
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And when I saw Joe Weisenthal, I was like, I'm in >> and he has great takes on food. Yes.
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And it was great because he's one of New York's best food.
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>> I'm used to him in one context talking about me about the markets, about what what's happening with the latest news in the Fed, talking to founders, talking to entrepreneurs, CEOs.
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Uh it was really cool to see uh just a different side of him.
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So, I think if you can keep doing that, like I'm I'm hooked.
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That's the That's the idea. >> Yes. Yes.
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And I think a lot of people will jump and honestly a lot of people should be trying to get on the show because it shows them a different side of them and I I don't know.
1:45:22
It just seems like it's it's a recipe for success. I love it.
1:45:26
>> Uh what about the West Coast expansion?
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You're looking >> I need your advice here.
1:45:31
>> So I I found out Subsack is very limited analytics.
1:45:34
They're great for other reasons, but in terms of like the demographics of my readers, >> Sure.
1:45:39
>> it's limited, but I do know that about 20% of my readers live in California. >> Yeah.
1:45:44
Um it it feels like a loss to not it it feels like a miss to not do some sort of or California product.
1:45:50
Uh when I was there on my last trip, everybody was saying like we want something like we read Feed Me religiously, but we want something in California.
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So I decided next year I'm just going to go out there more like there as a state.
1:46:03
Um, and I I think it will probably start as like a monthly letter, but all of these readers of mine, they like have tips for me.
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They have stories they want to tell.
1:46:14
I'm not sure exactly how I'm going to focus it, but I really I was I was putting together like a small newsroom or thinking about people to help me with it.
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And then I realized I can just go and do it.
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I think that's what people want. >> Yeah, for sure.
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>> So, I'm going to San Francisco at the end of January. >> Great.
1:46:30
I asked my >> I wonder how we need we need a prediction market on how long you're going to actually stay in SF.
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>> Right now it's three nights. >> Okay.
1:46:39
You're making it sound like it was going to be like 3 weeks.
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It could I mean maybe I'll never leave. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
1:46:45
You're going in January, not for January. >> In January.
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My husband would not want me to go for that long. He would miss me.
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>> Um and my readers would miss me in New York.
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But uh yeah, I I'm not sure where to start, but my my Twitter community of my like reply people in SF have been very welcoming and generous and have invited me to a few people >> dinner parties and bars.
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>> You'll probably leave with a scout fund.
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>> I'm looking for like some hidden doors. >> Sure. Sure. Okay.
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>> So, I mean that sounds like sort of restaurant focused, but are there other cultural touch points?
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>> All kinds of establishments have doors. >> Okay.
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go to Sand Hill Road and just start trying doors like against the side of some of the buildings.
1:47:30
>> I think the Feed Me Report on the Sand uh the Rosewood Bar on a Thursday night would really go >> that would go great.
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>> I think that'd be a great piece.
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>> Definitely go definitely go there.
1:47:38
I'll do that on a Thursday night.
1:47:43
>> Um but there's a lot that I don't I mean the only other time I went to SF was for WWDC.
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Thank you Apple for bringing me earlier that this year.
1:47:52
Got a selfie with Tim Cook.
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>> Yeah, but Certino is a very different environment than San Francisco.
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I know you probably spent some time >> in a neighborhood called >> What's the neighborhood that you don't that not everyone always likes to see? >> The Tenderloin. >> Oh, yeah. I live there. That's rough. >> Really? >> Yeah.
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>> We walked we walked through there uh at night after dinner.
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>> The the Twitter headquarters for a while were there.
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>> It wasn't fine when we were walking through.
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I had John as kind to uh to take a trip to the the Hamptons of San Francisco >> which is Tahoe. >> Oh, Tahoe.
1:48:27
>> I would say Tahoe, right? Or maybe Martha. Wait, no. Uh not Martha Vineyard.
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That's what's the Martha's Vineyard of San Francisco. I don't know. >> I said Marin. >> Marin. Yeah. One country.
1:48:33
But I think Tahoe is more of the Hampton cuz I when I think of like the Hampton's of I think like 2 hours, 3 hours, 4 hours. >> Skiing. >> Yeah.
1:48:44
You can ski, you can do a bunch of different things.
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You guys ski >> occasionally. I'm not super into it. It's fine.
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>> And we're into the track right now.
1:48:52
We're in very much in a in a race car phase.
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Uh less of the skiing phase.
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I I the most recent experience of being on the track just completely reset my expectations for what's possible with recreational sport.
1:49:02
So, uh I'm I'm find me in thermal, not you know, uh Jackson.
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>> You're getting um ad deal ideas also from F1, right? >> Oh, yes. Love F1. always. >> He's the best. Um, back to Substack.
1:49:18
>> Yeah, >> Jack Ki at Patreon is trying to poach Substack writers.
1:49:23
>> What do you think he's thinking?
1:49:23
What do you think he needs to do?
1:49:24
How do you think about the positioning of Substack versus Patreon?
1:49:28
Just like from a vibe and cultural perspective maybe first, like how how do you interpret like a Substack creator versus hi, I'm a Patreon creator? Yeah.
1:49:38
I think the medium is like you think Patreon, you think news or you think Patreon, you think podcast model, right? >> Yeah. Otherworld.
1:49:49
Do you know my favorite podcast? Otherworld. >> Jack. Uh Jack. >> Yeah. From uh Yeah.
1:49:53
He was originally >> Tamagotchi, Versace, whatever. Yeah. He rocks.
1:49:58
I think if they keep him >> with Well on that show. Yeah. >> I love Other Worlds.
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I listen to >> I've never listened to I never I I I've never watched a full horror movie >> and I'm not into any of this. You're not into that.
1:50:17
>> He just turns into a ghost. He's he's too afraid. >> You're missing out. It's a world. Yeah. Yeah. I'm a scary guy. A scary guy. >> Um Okay.
1:50:26
I think if they keep them, you know, they keep some of the big hitters like Red Scare, whatever.
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But I I don't think I think what both of these platforms are doing wrong is when they try to do like the sports team trade thing like >> and I was feeling [clears throat] a bit of FOMO.
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>> Why not go try get new people on your platform? >> Yeah. Yeah.
1:50:43
Incubate if you're Patreon. Yeah.
1:50:46
If you're Patreon, don't go poach from from Substack.
1:50:50
Go find someone who's working in legacy media way under way underpaid relative to the value they create.
1:50:56
Have them come over and do their new thing.
1:50:59
And and that was the lineage of some of the early Substack deals was we'll we'll help you get set up.
1:51:03
We'll we'll give you enough money that you can pay for healthcare, pay for the first thing, and then get your business up and running, >> right?
1:51:09
Um I was feeling a lot of FOMO that I wasn't getting the email from the Patreon team saying, "Come over here check."
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And then I got one the other day and it had the um >> it had the term I haven't even responded yet.
1:51:23
>> [laughter] >> post poached me trading card attempted poaching happening.
1:51:29
>> You're way too You're way too loyal.
1:51:29
I I genuinely think you're I feel like your audience would have a mutiny.
1:51:32
They would be like >> it wouldn't work.
1:51:36
>> I think you're Substack coded. That's the thing.
1:51:37
I think you're a Substack writer, >> but also when you see certain terms like >> we're rolling out new features that we want to tell you that roll is like a slow thing.
1:51:45
It's not like we're launching this and that the email kind of just fuzzed out after that and then he followed up or they I won't I won't out I won't out who emailed me but um >> this is amazing. >> Yeah, >> I love it.
1:52:00
>> Uh but I think I think like it's okay for Substack to be a newsletter platform and it's okay for Patreon to be >> podcast platform and I I would I'm very curious to see what an email CMS on Patreon even looks like. >> Do you have Netflix? Do I have Netflix? Sure do.
1:52:17
>> Are you like lo cuz I pay for it but I'm not logged in on my phone.
1:52:18
Like I'm not like a regular watcher. >> Phone. >> Yeah.
1:52:22
If you ever watch >> watching on the plane? >> Yeah. On a plane. I won't do that. I won't do that. >> Apple TV maybe. >> Okay. There you go.
1:52:28
So, uh, but do you think you'd ever watch a podcast on Netflix?
1:52:32
You've seen that they're doing this? >> Yes.
1:52:34
>> They're starting to buy podcasts and put them on Netflix. >> Yeah.
1:52:37
More like distribute them. >> Distribute them. They got The Ringer.
1:52:40
>> I would not, but these kids are really watching a lot of podcasts.
1:52:42
They're into podcasts on TVs on on the wall.
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Throw it on for a couple hours.
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>> I just messed up my mic.
1:52:48
No, I think you're >> um >> wall podcasts.
1:52:52
>> Yeah, I they're all watching podcast like people are watching expense account as much as listening to it >> and and and do you think they're also watching it on like smart TVs basically like they throw it on on the TV the way they might throw on uh you know reality TV show or a movie or >> with all the like working from home.
1:53:10
Okay, it's the close [applause] here.
1:53:17
They're closing the stock exchange. Who is it? It's Wells Fargo.
1:53:20
Well, man, >> we got one tower still up here.
1:53:21
We got one to Wells Fargo. We're holding on. We're holding on to one. >> Yeah, we got one. We got one left. There we go.
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[screaming] We're here live. shopping.
1:53:41
>> Let's give it up for Wells Fargo. >> Yes. Yes. >> Wow. She is going for it. >> That was great.
1:53:45
>> Maybe future fem sponsor there. Who knows? >> Who knows?
1:53:50
>> Uh anyway, you were saying people watching Netflix shows at uh >> I think more and more people are sort of using their TVs as like that always on thing in the office but in their house.
1:54:00
So, it's like a you know like the Harry Potter moving picture frame almost.
1:54:02
It's just like the TV is on, the podcast is on while they're doing whatever [clears throat] else they're doing.
1:54:08
>> Yeah, that makes sense. Uh holiday gifting. >> Yes.
1:54:12
>> Uh are gift are are are do gift guides matter in a world where you can tell the LLM uh describe the person and say generate a gift guide at you know every possible price point all the way through.
1:54:23
>> Did you guys see the gift guide that I wrote about that um Evercore sent out to everyone.
1:54:27
It's like what to buy the I think last year this I >> you wrote it for somebody at Evercore sends it to >> I feel like that's that's a premier product. >> That's great.
1:54:37
I'll forward it to you guys.
1:54:39
>> I looked up the person who makes it.
1:54:41
They've been doing it for many years.
1:54:43
Last year it was like what to buy the women in your life and this year they changed the subject to what to buy the people in your life.
1:54:47
But it's like luxury >> items men. >> Love it. >> Yeah.
1:54:52
So I I like the idea of sort of like this word of mouth kind of gift guide.
1:54:57
I think becomes a little bit more secret. >> Sure.
1:54:59
Um, Substack has become a storm of gift guides this time of year and it's a lot of clothes.
1:55:07
I didn't realize that like that's what people want.
1:55:08
So much >> what do you do you are you guys going to make a gift guide?
1:55:12
>> Yeah, but we're going to strict no clothes, more hardware, more like what track car to buy. >> No, no, no. We don't love the game. Love of the game. >> Oh, yeah.
1:55:22
Shop my We got to have the Shop on Shop My >> Yeah, I think Shop.
1:55:25
They have a lot on there now. >> Okay. Yes. >> Yeah.
1:55:30
If they if they get Ferrari challenge cars on there >> will be our word of the year. >> Word of the year.
1:55:38
>> DB needs a word of the year.
1:55:38
Every publication has a word of the year.
1:55:39
The economist has a word of the year.
1:55:41
The economist word of the year.
1:55:44
>> We haven't disclosed it yet.
1:55:45
>> The the the economist word of the year is slop, >> right? I saw that.
1:55:49
>> And that feels like appropriate, but also potentially could have been last year's word of the year.
1:55:53
We were talking about slop as a term that was sort of, you know, I think you called the top on slop in February, >> but so it really >> became it became the word of the year.
1:56:04
>> I think the economist did a good job picking and then Oxford had rage bait.
1:56:08
>> We Oh, yeah, they did. Rage bait. >> That's two words. >> Uh term of the year. >> Yeah.
1:56:13
One one word put together, I guess.
1:56:16
>> I want to say our word so much, but we need to introduce it in the right way.
1:56:20
You can you can >> Have you been hearing everybody saying flow state now?
1:56:22
That's like the very hot flow state.
1:56:25
I like that's like such an old I feel like that's like a 2018 era. >> Slump is negative. Range dates negative. Flow state.
1:56:33
Yeah, we're moving our word.
1:56:36
>> I remember I remember when I was like in college when I was in college listening to uh like Tim Ferrris, >> he was always trying to get in flow state.
1:56:44
I was I was >> say like Whiz Khalifa.
1:56:45
[laughter] >> Flow state's good. >> Yeah. Well, yeah.
1:56:50
I would encourage you to to drop FeedMe's word of the year. Okay.
1:56:55
>> I think you should think about >> I've been thinking of doing um some sort of list at the end of the year like >> the I was going to do a man of the year thing after GQ did theirs and left you off. >> Oh yeah. >> Crazy.
1:57:06
>> Well, uh didn't they give it to Sydney Sweeney instead? >> Yes. >> She was at the event. I It's funny.
1:57:10
You said >> Did you get the invite?
1:57:13
>> There was another >> No, we didn't even get the invite.
1:57:16
>> No, there was another >> You guys would be at my man of the year party. >> Thank you. Thank you.
1:57:20
I'm glad we'd make make a list. >> Uh what do you have?
1:57:25
>> Um >> are you having a holiday party?
1:57:28
>> I I mean I >> No, we we've really like dropped the ball on events like since the event we did.
1:57:33
Uh >> yeah, we had it's impossible.
1:57:36
>> Um do you >> you knew with our event we were like we're doing an event we picked like a rough time and then did nothing else until the day of but you pulled it off.
1:57:43
So >> did you It was It was fabulous.
1:57:44
Um, did did you guys ever go into any to any like 2016 awesome SF World holiday parties?
1:57:53
Like I feel like the budgets have kind of vanished and things have changed. >> Vanished? What do you mean?
1:57:59
>> Holiday parties don't really feel the same. >> Wait, how so?
1:58:03
>> Maybe I'm talking about the media ones. >> Oh, okay. >> Okay. Okay.
1:58:05
Yeah, cuz I mean, so that does make sense.
1:58:08
Like the biggest >> more money than ever and stuff. >> Yeah.
1:58:11
So, so like we're like the next two weeks like basically the the holiday holiday parties have begun.
1:58:17
>> Uh tech has obviously like taken the they saw the media companies with their big holiday parties and they said like that that's actually our money like we're going to take that and now um but I was wondering uh how you would how you would handle uh room blocks for uh as as like feed me if you were going to put on a big event.
1:58:35
How would you handle room blocks?
1:58:37
Cuz there's been a big >> hotel room.
1:58:39
>> Well, you have a very big team. >> Yes.
1:58:42
>> So, you're saying how do we transport the team if something was happening in New York? >> Yeah. >> So, we travel light. We travel light.
1:58:48
There was just four of us. There was four of us. >> Yeah.
1:58:50
I mean, do people do there's like two questions here.
1:58:54
One, how do you how does a who has to put up that many people like in a different city?
1:59:00
Uh like like if a media company is doing uh if they're if they're doing uh I'm I'm somewhat doing a bit >> I think you guys need to open a New York office.
1:59:08
>> We should Well, this is our New York office.
1:59:10
We're partnering with the New York Stock Exchange now.
1:59:12
>> But I'm just saying if you were doing an event in New York and you were inviting people and you were like, I'm going to pay for your accommodation because you're speaking at my event.
1:59:17
What what what would what hotel would you choose?
1:59:20
>> We need a high low strategy.
1:59:20
We need a high low >> strategy.
1:59:22
We what we need is a sleeping bag on the floor of this booth.
1:59:24
When we come to New York, we crash in the booth and we're like, we are grinding harder than anyone in Manhattan.
1:59:30
>> Or like a Vice Warehouse strategy.
1:59:30
Do you guys know the media company in DC, Punch Bowl?
1:59:36
Like they own a brown store. >> Oh, yeah. That's cool.
1:59:38
Their office is there and I'm sure someone has slept there before.
1:59:42
Um, but you might need to, you know, >> look check out like the real estate.
1:59:47
>> Where would Punch Bowl go on uh my media map, which was the map?
1:59:52
And I think I got to talk.
1:59:53
>> We still We still are getting We still are getting notes from people saying like, "You didn't put me on.
1:59:57
>> We did this actually event last night."
1:59:59
>> People thought that was like the Magna Carta.
2:00:00
It was like [laughter] >> together. It was so crazy.
2:00:06
>> It was so crazy cuz Tyler put it together. We like glanced at it.
2:00:08
We're like, "Oh, it looks pretty funny."
2:00:10
And you and then we're like, "All right, we'll have Emily basically to be the heat shield and put this out to the world."
2:00:16
So >> yeah, that was great.
2:00:17
and then people [laughter] tried to make their own and it didn't hit the same obviously. >> Okay. Well, yeah.
2:00:22
I mean, I I think that these formats they they when they hit, they hit really well and they're very sharable.
2:00:27
I I would I I would say that >> stuff can get overdone, but I would be excited to read the FeedMe holiday gift guide.
2:00:35
Also, just the recap of the top 10 moments from the year, pieces that I might not have read or snippets that I missed, things like that, like the the scoops that you've gotten or interviews, things you learned.
2:00:46
I have a question for you guys.
2:00:48
>> Predictions for next year.
2:00:48
All of this stuff like the formats are they they they they're played out but they they work still.
2:00:54
They work and it's just a good way to enjoy information.
2:00:55
I like seeing a market on a map.
2:00:59
>> I like seeing a list of top things whether it's people or companies.
2:01:01
Like people like ranking lists and stuff to digest. >> Yeah.
2:01:06
And you need a little bit of heat shield, but you know, >> um can I ask you guys a quick question?
2:01:10
I was at Dealbook this year and interviewed Mr. Beast. >> Yeah.
2:01:13
and he was playing the videos that he made 10 years ago with like camcorders, like early stuff.
2:01:20
>> That video that went viral this week, me in 10 years or something. >> Yeah.
2:01:23
>> And I'm curious, are you guys >> I I got like a pain and regret that I'm not capturing more like how I built this style stuff.
2:01:29
Are you guys capturing that as well?
2:01:31
Like are you guys getting behind the scenes stuff?
2:01:34
>> Yeah, we have a little bit of behind the scenes stuff. Um we we we've seen it.
2:01:38
>> The thing is we put our entire studio on the stream, >> right?
2:01:42
>> right? And so like it's in some ways like you get a behind the scenes look every episode >> more like back in the car on the way home like >> get some of that stuff crazy about it because >> like like you could tell like if you
2:01:56
were trying to just make the documentary about we actually thought it would be hilarious to make a 2-hour documentary about TVN and and release it in one year like and just because you could just put a documentary on on Amazon Prime if you want. Yeah. Um, but but you could you Yeah.
2:02:07
Um, but but you could you could tell the story through the show pretty effectively and we have ISOs for everything and we often have meta conversations like this one about the show on the show.
2:02:18
And so right here we're talking about the decision to put to do behind the scenes.
2:02:23
There aren't that many there aren't that many discussions that we're like, "Oh, we should have captured that off off camera."
2:02:29
Uh, may maybe there's a little bit more where we should be doing stuff.
2:02:34
I think that the the the lower hanging fruit for us is just uh like >> I think you should become one of those live streamers that just spends all day long walking around and be like, "Yo, no, no, Emily."
2:02:43
All around New York, you just have somebody following you with a camera.
2:02:46
You're just doing stories, scooping.
2:02:49
>> I could I mean that like photo in the New York Times where I'm in the back of the car is kind of that vibe. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
2:02:54
May maybe maybe we should do more uh behind the scenes shots, but it's just hard to figure out like how would we productize that because it's a lot of effort.
2:03:02
I think it's more for the time capsule. >> Yeah.
2:03:05
>> But I think for us, like think about the time capsule in 30 years from now, you'll be able to do a second from every single show forever and you'll be able >> photos and memory. >> Yeah.
2:03:15
There are a lot of stuff.
2:03:15
It's not exactly like bill building silently like it's very much public.
2:03:20
>> Um anyway, >> building very publicly.
2:03:22
>> Well, uh very excited. Massive year for you. Congratulations. >> Yeah. Congratulations.
2:03:28
>> Thank you so much for coming.
2:03:29
>> You're going to come to New York more? >> Yes.
2:03:30
I mean, that's exactly a lot of IPOs next year.
2:03:31
This >> New York Stock Exchange partnership is all about.
2:03:34
>> We got Adam over here.
2:03:34
He's suited up in suited up. But thank you. Yeah.
2:03:36
Thank you so much for joining for me. This is so fun. I'll see you guys soon. See you soon. Great to see you. >> Bye.
2:03:43
>> Um, while she hops off, let me tell you about wander. com.
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2:04:02
What are you laughing at?
2:04:02
What What do you got in the timeline? >> Can't share that one. >> Okay.
2:04:07
>> Um but um >> Varta is flying its fourth mission home to Earth. That's exciting.
2:04:12
Varta has been on an absolute tear.
2:04:14
Brewy sharing a photo of the uh Seun Kuniba. Go W4.
2:04:21
Uh, somebody was joking about how Varta names their their uh Varta names their missions W- the number.
2:04:27
They're now they're now on four.
2:04:29
Someone was making the joke that eventually it's going to start sounding like tax forms like W9 like you know 1099.
2:04:37
I mean that would be a funny bit.
2:04:40
>> Uh, does the W stand Winnebago?
2:04:40
I know that they have this whole like Breaking Bad theme internally that they like to joke about, but I don't know. Um, where were we at?
2:04:51
>> TJ Parker is quoting uh Granola.
2:04:51
Granola did Crunch, which is a great name for their version of rap. >> Oh, that is good.
2:04:57
>> Uh, TJ Parker says, "You're 2025 deposed." >> Deposed.
2:05:02
>> What did you mean by this?
2:05:04
>> That actually I mean uh a wrapped style product for all of your meeting notes is extremely interesting uh for the corporate athlete out there.
2:05:12
Really, really if you're if you're a corporate athlete and you put up historic numbers in I love how he is like I did 3,200 hours in a month [laughter] just like you can't possibly work 3,000 hours in a month.
2:05:28
There aren't 3,000 hours in a month cuz I know I know in full a full work year is is 2,000 hours and if you're working 80 hours a week that's 4,000 hours.
2:05:36
Uh, but it's uh, yeah, it's that's >> Andrew Reed says, "When your vendor sends out their forward deployed engineers, they're leaving their flank exposed to a pinser movement by your calvary." What? >> It's ridiculous. The metaphors. I love it.
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Let me tell you about adquick. com.
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2:06:02
GA announced a $15 million series A yesterday led by Excel and launched Prism Aentic reporting that can explain your finances.
2:06:10
>> Yeah, we got Adam Faze in the New York Stock Exchange. >> Wow.
2:06:15
In the suit in the Can we get Can we get a suit check real quick? You look fantastic. [music] >> Stock. Yes, you look great. Thank you so much.
2:06:24
>> Are you Are you like a tailoring guy? You get it?
2:06:27
>> I No, I am like you buy a suit then you get it tailored. >> Okay. That's great.
2:06:30
I'm not at the level yet you can get like a custom suit one. We're getting there. >> Getting there.
2:06:36
Well, uh you had some rattling timeline.
2:06:39
I do >> uh about about the news breakdown. What happened today?
2:06:43
How did you find out about it?
2:06:44
>> I found out from someone tell I've been in favor of this merger from the day it was announced.
2:06:49
So I think like when there was conversations around who might be the new owner of Warner Brothers, Netflix for me was always the best option.
2:06:55
Um, and so I was having dinner with a friend two nights ago and I was saying this and the next day, last night, he texted me and he's like, "It happened."
2:07:01
I was like, "Wait, what?" And I was shocked.
2:07:03
I really did not actually think this was possible.
2:07:05
But I think I'm one of the few people in Hollywood that actually think this is good for Hollywood. >> Okay. Why? Why?
2:07:11
>> You say you say in Hollywood, but you're here in New York.
2:07:12
You know, look, Hollywood is kind of every state of mind. It's a state of mind. >> Hollywood. Okay. So, uh, yeah. Why is it good? Why is it good?
2:07:20
>> I think everyone is still stuck in 2015 and thinks that we are in a battle with Netflix.
2:07:23
The reality is like we're in a battle for attention with Neta, Google, Tik Tok, the AI companies.
2:07:28
And I think whatever's best for this IP is what's best for Hollywood.
2:07:32
>> And we as content creators, IP, >> I think as people that love our industry, I think the IP that Warner Brothers own is so rich.
2:07:37
At the end of the day, Netflix has the most powerful distribution arm in entertainment.
2:07:41
And so when you look at the force of like a K-pop Demon Hunters, for instance, which like arguably the biggest movie of the year, you think that Warner Brothers is the second most important animated IP library, second to Disney, right? This is Looney Tunes.
2:07:53
We're talking Hannah Barbara.
2:07:55
We're talking >> these are titles that are gathering dust on platforms and it would gather dust on Paramount Plus as well.
2:08:02
And Netflix now has the IP to match the distribution that they already have.
2:08:07
>> Why do you why do you don't think Paramount would be able to put it to use?
2:08:10
>> Not to the power of Netflix.
2:08:10
And I think at the end of the day, Netflix has wanted a licensing business for a very long time, but I think what they figured out is that IP is really hard to make.
2:08:16
I think after 10 years, there's like three titles you can actually say are IP.
2:08:22
Stranger Thingsid Squid Game.
2:08:22
Uh, and I think you can say K-pop team, but like they spent 15 billion dollars using it really is remarkable because I feel like I feel a very positive association with Netflix.
2:08:34
I've always had a good time with it. I've always enjoyed it.
2:08:35
And then but when I actually look through I can name 10 HBO shows that I love and revere as like fine art relative to like had some good times on Netflix, but it's not like oh you're not watching you've never seen the Sopranos. Exactly.
2:08:51
>> You're not watching Game of Thrones.
2:08:52
Like, it's not the FOMO TV.
2:08:54
>> And I think at the end of the day, we're matching now the most powerful audience in streaming with the greatest library on earth.
2:08:59
So, I think like in revenue alone, >> the greatest library on earth, >> hey, I really do think Warner Brothers has the greatest library when you include HBO as well. >> Okay. Sure. Sure.
2:09:06
I mean, there's some good stuff. Yeah.
2:09:08
>> And I do think when you think about the licensing revenue they're going to start making for merchandising, I mean, we're talking Netflix now owning Harry Potter.
2:09:14
>> The merchandising on that alone is the reason why this is the best deal possible. >> Yeah.
2:09:19
You're not worried about You're not worried about the debt.
2:09:20
You're not worried that everybody that that subscribes to HBO Max is already probably paying Netflix and there's there's just >> Well, I don't mean it'll be cheaper for all of us, right?
2:09:29
I mean, I think you're going to get too far a little bit more expensive.
2:09:32
>> A little bit more expensive, but then you can just keep >> bringing it up, bringing it up, bringing it up.
2:09:36
I mean, I I've I've I've always uh >> Yeah, I've always always been uh like Netflix has felt like such a good value proposition for so long.
2:09:45
I've always been interested to see how people will churn if there's not like a hot showt on Netflix at that exact moment that they're engaged with because there's just so much content.
2:09:56
>> Help me wrestle with this.
2:09:56
There was someone on the on the timeline who was saying like uh I cannot imagine another place where Warner Brothers would land that would be more of a would create more of a monopoly and and they're saying they're going to face antitrust. Yeah.
2:10:12
So Jason Jason Kar who was a founding CEO of Hulu. That's right. >> Warner Media CEO.
2:10:17
He says, "If I was tasked with doing so, I could not think of a more effective way to reduce competition in Hollywood." Reduce WB to Netflix.
2:10:25
>> Particularly an antitrust phrase, >> but I was saying like, what about selling it to Disney?
2:10:30
Like if it was >> What about to Paramount?
2:10:32
At the end of the day, there'd be a lot worse consolidation with a Paramount and Warner Brothers combined merger and a lot more lost jobs. >> Okay.
2:10:39
So, so explain explain that angle cuz I was talking about Disney and it just seems crazy to put uh Superman next to Spider-Man like you.
2:10:46
>> I think at the end of the day, as much as people usually like to say that they'd like to keep the teams at both studios, at the end of the day, if Paramount and Warner Brothers were to emerge, they'd have the same film studio. >> Oh, sure. Sure.
2:10:55
>> And so, I think what we're really talking about here is the consolidation for the survival of a 100-year-old industry.
2:11:00
That's going to continue to happen.
2:11:02
But again, we are in a war for attention with the digital platforms that are free to watch, which is YouTube, which is Instagram, which is Tik Tok.
2:11:09
So, I think that at the end of the day, we are trying to keep alive an industry that is not thriving, but still is a very powerful industry.
2:11:15
I think that this puts it in a much better direction going forward. >> Yeah.
2:11:19
What about uh actual physical theaters?
2:11:21
theaters? It seemed like Netflix was trying to get ahead of some narrative that uh you know movies that you love with the the next Harry Potter maybe whatever that is or the next super >> well the next it is about to be an HBO TV show that's been in development which is really funny but but but you you understand
2:11:39
>> well you say that but like it it feels still feels like it this deal has a long way to go >> has a long way to go >> and and it still feels like there's a number of different scenarios >> but I think most likely this is just held up for a few years so I think that's probably more likely the option similar time. >> Hey, yep. Obviously, the next great >> Hey, yep.
2:12:02
Obviously, the next great movie we have, we could just put on Netflix, maybe get a couple more subs.
2:12:07
We are going to consciously make an effort to put it into theaters.
2:12:09
Uh, do you think that's lip service? Do you like that plan?
2:12:12
Do you think like how are you feeling about the theater business and what it where it goes from here?
2:12:18
Do you see Netflix putting a popup that's like, "Hey, this is in movies now, but if you pay $100, you can watch it [laughter] today."
2:12:25
>> That no, but I will say I think this year we've seen Netflix going to go back on things they've said.
2:12:28
I mean, they put K-pop Demon Hunters in theaters and made $19 million in the span of one weekend.
2:12:34
So, I do think they understand the force is you can make a difference.
2:12:37
>> There's something about a musical in a theater, too, cuz especially with kids. >> Yeah.
2:12:40
and seeing with a shared audience.
2:12:43
But I do think that at the end of the day, Warner Brothers, you know, has to continue having their releases come out in theaters if they're going to want to still make movies with people like Paul Thomas Anderson.
2:12:50
And so I think what you will more likely see is the window being shortened.
2:12:55
>> But I do think that they will have to keep and maintain this sort of theatrical exhibition release. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's fascinating.
2:12:59
I wonder I wonder where it goes.
2:13:01
There's a been a trend that I've been a fan of where uh the movie theaters, at least in my town, have been uh reducing the number of seats, but then increasing the amenities and upsells and they'll try and sell you a whole dinner and drinks and you get out of there and you spend 200 bucks, but I don't get to go to the movies that much so it's like a fantastic experience.
2:13:19
So, you like the eating in the theater. I love that. >> I like the iPick.
2:13:22
I don't like the eating in it.
2:13:23
I like the like luxury seat for sure.
2:13:26
>> No, you bring a bottle of wine over.
2:13:26
You bring a >> How's the wine? Is it good wine?
2:13:30
>> I can't tell, but it depends. enjoy it.
2:13:32
[laughter] No, no, sometimes inspired. I don't know.
2:13:35
But I I I think they should go all the way.
2:13:37
French laundry, put a movie theater in. >> Yeah.
2:13:39
I mean, look, at the end of the day, I think you look at something like the Lincoln Center IMAX, which is usually sold out for weeks on end.
2:13:43
It's almost impossible to get a seat when you have a one battle after another or DC or something premiering there.
2:13:48
So I think the trend is going to go to the theater during the day or just in >> sold.
2:13:58
I mean I actually tried to go see I finally saw one after another like weeks after it had come out and I had the shittiest seats on earth because I couldn't find seats at any other given show time.
2:14:05
But I do think the trend's going to be the only reason you will go to a theater is to have an experience you cannot have at home.
2:14:10
So if that's the ultra luxury sort of beautiful screening room that you have a steak dinner at, great.
2:14:14
If that's the biggest screen in North America, then that's also amazing, too.
2:14:18
And I think a lot of this is sort of repeating what the movie experience was 100 years ago.
2:14:22
We used to build like palaces to watch movies and it went to the multiplex in the mall, which really does mirror probably a worse version of what you could watch on Netflix at home.
2:14:33
And so, I'm in support of kind of going back to that original experience and making it something that's just like spectacular as a way of getting people back in those seats. >> Yeah.
2:14:42
>> Um, >> what other media stories are you tracking?
2:14:44
I mean, this is the biggest one of the week. This is history.
2:14:46
This is like actual history.
2:14:48
And I and I I do I am sensitive to that fact.
2:14:50
I think there's a lot of people in Hollywood that are scared about sort of what is next for our industry.
2:14:56
You know, we had a very long strike that then came to an industry that was sort of smaller than it was at the beginning of.
2:15:01
But um at the end of the day, I do think that this is an exciting story.
2:15:05
And I also think that it's going to be as someone who's a fan of like Looney Tunes for instance, I would rather a newer version of Looney Tunes be on these platforms than having kids watch like YouTube kids AI stuff.
2:15:17
>> Favorite Looney Tunes character.
2:15:19
>> It's a great question. Wy Coyote.
2:15:19
The the the influx of just pure AI content now to YouTube is actually crazy.
2:15:28
specifically in the video essay kind of documentary space where they're just like, "Hey, like I'm going to just generate a deep research report, >> use 11 Labs to like basically create an audio track and then just put pictures and some videos over it is actually crazy.
2:15:42
I've only been uh I like some of the history content on there and I'll just like search for a topic and then if I don't know the channels yet, I I I don't know until I'm 3 minutes in the video and the and the and the video says this this move wasn't just uh this it was that and I'm like I'm like they got you.
2:16:00
>> I will say YouTube Kids is like one of the scarier things I think we have in culture cuz like you might think your kid is safe because they're watching a Rachel video.
2:16:07
It's very cute and innocent but like the recommended feed I don't know if you ever spent time with YouTube Kids. It's terrifying.
2:16:11
I mean, it's like AI slop coming from like Russian.
2:16:15
>> They're not going to swear and there won't be nudity or content, but it's weird.
2:16:20
>> It's weird and it is like weirdly sensual at times as well.
2:16:22
And I think that like I don't know when we decided that these tech companies could be the babysitter for your child.
2:16:27
But I imagine that we're going to sort of reverse those trends. >> I completely agree.
2:16:30
And I think the meme is already taking hold.
2:16:32
Like the whole iPad kids meme is definitely something where parents are now proud to be like, "Oh yeah, my kid doesn't have an iPad."
2:16:39
And it's like if it becomes a status symbol, then all of a sudden everyone does it and hopefully the matter.
2:16:42
>> What about social media being banned?
2:16:44
There's something in Australia. >> I'm in favor of this.
2:16:48
>> I think under under 16 they're banning social media in Australia, which I think is a great thing.
2:16:51
I really do think we're nearing peak >> sort of consumption.
2:16:56
>> So here's here's the issue with that.
2:16:58
Like kids are still going to have devices.
2:16:59
They're going to use various services.
2:17:02
They'll use new networks that have less control.
2:17:04
I think kids are still going to be social on the internet.
2:17:08
And if you ban the platforms that actually invest billions of dollars a year, you're going to get them on these like places like dark corners of the internet that don't have any scrutiny, that don't have any uh whatever you want to call it, safety teams, whether you're in favor of them or or not.
2:17:22
I just think this is you cannot ban humans being social, they will always find a way.
2:17:29
>> They will always find a way.
2:17:29
But I mean, we had a very similar conversation around cigarettes, right?
2:17:32
And like we know that the sort of laws we put around cigarettes has saved lives, a countless amount of lives.
2:17:37
And so I do think that like regardless, but but the comp would be like it's you ban cigarettes, which is a physical item that you need that needs a supply chain.
2:17:45
You need to it's hard to like make a cigarette.
2:17:47
Uh we're not banning kids cell phones.
2:17:49
They're still going to have a device >> roll with one hand.
2:17:52
[laughter] >> Yeah, John was John was probably rolling his own pipe actually back.
2:17:59
>> Whiddling whiddling a pipe. Whiddling a pipe.
2:18:01
So I just so I just think like you're going to end up in a situation where kids are probably going to make they're going to just vibe code a crazy social network and it's going to invite in a lot of >> Sure.
2:18:11
I mean I think look regardless I think we're we're nearing that point where we need to have a national conversation about this.
2:18:16
I don't think anyone out there can say that like kids are better off today as a result of the amount of brain rotten consumption they're doing on these platforms than they were before.
2:18:24
And I think like on top of that these platforms are in the business of getting you more addicted to their slop.
2:18:29
There's a reason why Instagram moved the reels tab to where messages used to be cuz they know that once you're on the reels tab, you're probably going to watch a few more reels. That's a $50 billion.
2:18:38
>> I was not I was not on the reals tab at all.
2:18:40
I would just check my messages.
2:18:41
>> You swipe and now it's real.
2:18:42
>> I swipe it down there. I'm like cursed. >> Okay. Well, it is cursed. >> It's cursed.
2:18:46
>> So, I just think that like this is a conversation that needs to be parentled and [clears throat] we don't really have the data yet to show just how harmful it is.
2:18:54
>> I always just go back to like my experience with video games like you know Halo I think was like M for mature.
2:18:58
I was not supposed to be able to play it until I was 17.
2:19:00
I was probably able to get out my hands on it at 14.
2:19:02
I think I turned out okay.
2:19:04
I'm not obsessed with like killing aliens and I not doing like No, I'm actually completely fine.
2:19:12
Same thing with Call of Duty.
2:19:13
>> I mean, I remember going to GameStop with my mom and uh trying to buy GTA V and they have to give you that whole warning like do you know this game includes like every horrible thing you've ever heard in your entire life?
2:19:21
And it's like yeah, >> yeah. Yeah.
2:19:22
So, so having some sort of warning system.
2:19:24
I'm a big fan of MPA ratings coming to tech products.
2:19:26
I've been kind of beating that drum for for a couple months.
2:19:29
But uh I I like I I think the MPA ratings I hope that the MPAA figures out a way to work with the tech companies in a way that's like accreative to them, like they get paid or whatever.
2:19:39
Um because I think that there's just something about if I say, "Hey, uh like like Instagram is R-rated," you'll be like, "Okay, I know what that means."
2:19:47
Or like Instagram is PG-13 rated or it's G-rated.
2:19:49
I know intuitively and I'm ready as a parent to to decide when and maybe I want to say, "Hey, uh, you know, PG-13 rated movies like a little bit earlier because parental guidance is recommended." It's okay.
2:20:04
It's like we can even with video games, I I'm I'm I'm a big fan of like cooperative games being a wildly different dynamic than like solo online in like the toxic chat room.
2:20:13
Whereas if it's like me and my son playing a co-op game together, like troubleshooting and stuff, even if like the the the screen images are a little bit like like adult, it's like we're collaborating and so it's a wildly different dynamic than being like lonely and then seeing [clears throat] imagery.
2:20:33
>> I mean, I do think these are just sort of unfortunately some of the problems we had to deal with with userenerated content.
2:20:38
Like we're talking about games that were made by hundreds if not thousands of people that had to go through an approval system to get that rating.
2:20:44
There are dangers when it is totally left up to the person of just making whatever type of content you want.
2:20:48
Of course, platforms like YouTube are going to police that content and you're not allowed to have, you know, can murder somebody and have that video exist on on YouTube. You can on X, though.
2:20:57
So, I think it's just a matter of figuring out like where do we want this conversation to go and like what approvals do we want to give the parents? >> Yeah.
2:21:04
>> Uh want your take on uh the Marty Supreme marketing campaign. >> Oh, yeah.
2:21:09
Cuz this feels like to me I don't I don't I don't pay much attention to movies, but I'm seeing a lot of Marty Supreme content. >> That's good.
2:21:16
And >> Jord's film of the year already.
2:21:19
>> Oh, you haven't seen it. Have you seen it? >> No. No.
2:21:21
I saw it a few weeks ago. You saw it on Christmas. I saw it. I went to the premiere.
2:21:26
>> I understood it came on Christmas from that.
2:21:28
But it's I mean it's amazing.
2:21:30
It's the best movie of the year.
2:21:31
I will say the best movie of the year.
2:21:34
Not to put a a brotherly race between the two, but Josh Safy is is the GOAT and he's he's the one. It's the best score. It's the best acting. It's the greatest cast.
2:21:43
It's such a phenomenal movie. >> The best score. >> Best score. >> Really? >> Yeah. >> Interesting.
2:21:48
>> Like the game in the ping pong. >> No, no, no.
2:21:49
Like the best like the music of the movie. The music of the movie. >> 21 to zero.
2:21:54
>> I will [laughter] say I don't know.
2:21:54
I I think >> you know part of they're dealing with Tim.
2:21:58
Timmy has a Timothy, not that I'm friends with him, has a very short amount of times.
2:22:02
I think he's filming Doom right now.
2:22:03
So, I don't think he's that available for press.
2:22:04
I think what they're doing is super creative.
2:22:07
>> I worry that it's a little inside baseball.
2:22:09
And I think like you could be going more mass culture with this like he did with the Bob Dylan movie by going on Pat McCaffy and all these other programs.
2:22:16
>> Um, >> I will just say the blimp. The blimp.
2:22:19
I've been trying to get somebody to use do a blimp marketing campaign for so long.
2:22:22
>> You want to do a blimp? Uh, no.
2:22:22
I was just pushing like ramp to do a blimp.
2:22:24
I told the Gemini team, do a blimp. Right.
2:22:28
Like blimps are an amazing asset cuz you can physically put them over the air.
2:22:33
Like you're putting something naturally inspiring.
2:22:35
You look up and it's a blimp and it's like amazing. >> They are.
2:22:37
And I think it was fun that it was connected to the instrument. It is. It is.
2:22:41
It is the movie of the year. It is best. >> Okay. Wow. >> Best picture. Wo wo wo.
2:22:46
>> It's the show of the year. >> The show of the year.
2:22:48
Um, honestly, I feel like I actually didn't catch up that much with television shows.
2:22:55
I'm re-watching Homeland though, which I >> Oh, Homeland. Wow. That's a throwback.
2:23:00
>> It is a throwback at this point.
2:23:00
sort of like Obama era scene.
2:23:03
>> I remember season 1 having a great like cliffhanger. I was really into it.
2:23:07
You're deeper in the seasons. You >> No, no.
2:23:08
I'm I'm like episode seven, season one right now.
2:23:10
This is like a new kind of like in passing when I was a kid, but I don't really think I like went through.
2:23:17
>> No, I remember being really into it when I watched it.
2:23:19
Uh anyway, thank you so much for coming on. This is fantastic. Thank you for having me.
2:23:22
Congratulations on your booth. Look at this. >> This is crazy. This is crazy. >> We're here. We're doing it. Thank you so much.
2:23:30
Have a great rest of your day.
2:23:32
Uh I'm going to tell you about adquick. com.
2:23:33
Out of home advertising, easy and measurable.
2:23:36
Plan by buy and measure out of home with precision.
2:23:39
>> Uh did you know the owner of AI. com is uh DeepS? >> What?
2:23:45
>> Apparently it could be fake news.
2:23:45
It's according to Google AI overview.
2:23:49
>> Uh but uh >> wait, no, no, no.
2:23:50
This is this is completely wrong.
2:23:52
Completely wrong because it says it was owned by techuber YouTuber MKBHD who acquired it from Elon Musk.
2:23:59
That doesn't make any sense.
2:24:00
That's complete nonsense. Um, no, no, no. That fake news.
2:24:03
That's That's like completely unreliable. I I'm not buying it. I'm not buying it.
2:24:09
>> Um, anyway, is there any other news that is worth running through?
2:24:12
There was a review in the Wall Street Journal of a book called Mainten Maintenance of Everything Part One review, Making of the Future, uh, by Stuart Brand.
2:24:20
This is a Stripe Press book.
2:24:22
We should try and have him on the show.
2:24:24
Um, so, uh, it begins with this drama.
2:24:27
This is a This is interesting.
2:24:29
It's talking about like the the the process of maintenance and says, "The author recounts the stories of three contestants in the 1968 Golden Globe around the world solo sailboat race.
2:24:42
One was a former merchant marine whose wooden 32 ft catch was barely adequate for a journey through the punishing southern ocean.
2:24:50
Make do and mend was his was his uh motto."
2:24:52
Another competitor was a tech whiz who packed his plywood triaran electronic electronic gizmos.
2:25:01
A dreamy optimist, he set sail in a rush uh hoping for the best.
2:25:07
The third and the most experienced racer sailed in a purpose-built steelhold boat which he maintained with zen-like discipline.
2:25:15
He said he spent his days working calmly at the odd jobs that make up my universe.
2:25:20
And so while this story will be familiar to sailors and others who have read the many books written about the race, Mr.
2:25:26
Brand minds the competitor's harrowing experiences for deep lessons, maintaining the technology that keeps us alive is more than a necessary job.
2:25:36
>> Josh Wolf, remember he was talking about his thesis for maintenance.
2:25:41
>> Like I think he was on the show if I remember correctly.
2:25:42
Uh, I mean the idea is like everybody wants to build things.
2:25:46
Nobody wants to maintain them.
2:25:46
But we have a lot of things in the world that maybe aren't functioning the way that you want them to.
2:25:51
You can throw them out or you can like like maintain them and improve them, bring them uh revitalize them.
2:25:58
So uh I'm excited to read the do they did they give a proper review?
2:26:01
Um I mean the New Yorker isn't or the the the Wall Street Journal is not doing exactly like two thumbs up here but uh they they they are they are reviewing it and they say uh maintenance will engage students of technology, challenge business readers and inspire home tinkerers who will be happy to learn that fixing gadgets is also a path to enlightenment.
2:26:24
Fittingly, the book was initially published in installments online visible at books.
2:26:29
work andworksandprogress. co. Co.
2:26:32
Uh, as a kind of editorial DIY project, Mr.
2:26:34
Brand tends to jump from topic to topic as he follows his passions.
2:26:38
Some might find his digressions meandering.
2:26:40
I certainly wouldn't have a problem with that.
2:26:43
Um, and the author of this uh post on the Wall Street Journal says, "I found them delightful."
2:26:48
Uh, reflecting that quirky organization, the book ends on a tangent rather than a big wrap-up.
2:26:54
[laughter] Uh, but that only raises expectations for part two.
2:26:59
And so, uh, I think this is a positive review, uh, by, uh, Mr.
2:27:04
Meeks, the former editor of Popular Mechanics and senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute.
2:27:08
Um, and I think that concludes our our show from >> I found out, uh, AI. com.
2:27:11
The owner is trying to sell it and they're redirecting it to a bunch of different sites to try to generate income. >> Exactly.
2:27:19
And so people are people so so they'll show they'll send it to MKBHD for a couple days >> to hope that he post and then and then if you're in the analytics and you're Elon at XAI or something and you're like, "Oh, wow.
2:27:29
I'm getting all this traffic from where?
2:27:30
Oh, someone someone redirected aai. com to me.
2:27:31
I'd be curious how much valuable. Maybe I should buy it. It is a lot of traffic.
2:27:37
>> I I wonder how much traffic it actually gets. >> I have no idea.
2:27:39
Um I can't imagine that there's that many people that are just going to ai. com.
2:27:43
Are those the best customers really?
2:27:45
Like people haven't made a decision.
2:27:47
I mean, openai botch chat. com.
2:27:49
So maybe these short short domains uh make a lot of sense.
2:27:51
Um I mean uh doesn't uh does Google own.
2:27:54
ai AI or something because they have AI. studio.
2:27:59
So I guess they own they own the the TLD studio.
2:28:03
Google Google doesn't just buy domain. >> See AI.
2:28:07
com only got 93,000 visits in October >> according to similar web which is not seem super valuable.
2:28:13
Um but you could do something fun with it.
2:28:16
You could do something interesting with it.
2:28:17
I'm sure that there's a there's a way to make some >> but it's not worth $100 million in any situation. >> Yeah.
2:28:23
Well, uh, in other funding news, uh, there, uh, there's 350 million new funding for Castellian, who's been on the show, uh, is, uh, and and the Wall Street Journal is putting in context, there's alarm over the hypersonic missile gap, and it's fueling a startup boom.
2:28:40
The Pentagon is getting serious about hypersonic weapons, a technology that have eluded uh, the US military for decades.
2:28:46
It's looking two startups with no experience but billions of dollars backing them to fill an increasingly glaring hole in the national arsenal.
2:28:55
China and Russia both have stockpiles of these long-range super fast maneuverable weapons. The US doesn't.
2:28:59
Even though officials consider them essential to winning future conflicts as the defense department belatedly looks to close that gap.
2:29:07
private investment is pouring in and startups, many of which haven't has haven't built hypersonic systems at scale and haven't flown at hypersonic speeds, are seeing their valuation sore.
2:29:20
The latest is Torrance-based uh Torrance-based Castellian, which on Friday said it raised $350 million at a $2. 8 billion valuation. Wow.
2:29:27
Congrats to the team over at Castillian. That is crazy.
2:29:32
>> They were >> they were around a I remember they were around like 100 or 200 earlier this year. So big jump.
2:29:40
>> Um we are in the back of our show.
2:29:40
So I will pull up this post from Jason Freed.
2:29:46
He's talking about the best back quarter in the last [snorts] 50 years. What car is this?
2:29:50
>> Uh this is the Aston Martin Zagato.
2:29:52
>> Oh the which is probably an underrated car in general and just a fantastic color.
2:29:58
Hopefully the team uh can pull it up.
2:30:01
Um but uh Jason has incredible taste in all things in life and certainly in cars.
2:30:08
Uh but uh that's our show for today.
2:30:11
We'll be back home on the West Coast on Monday. I can't wait.
2:30:14
And uh thank you for tuning in with us today and yesterday from the NY.
2:30:19
Thank you uh to Lynn, Chloe, and the whole team. They're all fantastic.
2:30:25
And uh we will be back here soon. We'll see you on Monday. >> Cheers. >> Thank you. Goodbye.