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Yeah, >> we will start the stream in 1 minute.
3:53
In 1 minute, we are live from the New York Stock Exchange at the Figma IPO. >> 60 seconds.
4:05
>> And the crew over at Citadel Securities is going absolutely wild.
4:09
It's really a sight to see. They are having fun.
4:12
Very excited for this IPL. >> Let's do it. [Music] >> What? [Music] >> 30 seconds. >> 20 seconds. Just kidding. Just kidding. 5 4 3 2 1 You're on. >> You're watching TBPN.
5:02
Today is Thursday, July 31st, 2025.
5:05
We are live from the New York Stock Exchange. It's the Figma IPO.
5:12
>> The Fortress of Finance.
5:12
>> This is the real fortress of finance.
5:12
We have created a similocum of the fortress of finance in Hollywood, California.
5:16
But today, we're in New York City. We're in Manhattan.
5:20
We're in the financial district.
5:21
We're on Wall Street at the New York Stock Exchange and the mood is electric. It is wild.
5:28
>> Just down here a second ago, uh the there was a crowd breaking out uh cheering. >> Yes.
5:35
>> And it is really a sight to see. >> Yes.
5:37
So, uh, Figma is going, uh, public today and, uh, earlier today, Dylan Field and the Figma team rang the bell to open the market.
5:44
And then, uh, throughout the course of the day, uh, the the the market is in the process of, uh, of filling orders and actually taking the stock public and getting liquidity into the stock.
5:57
>> And, uh, I will say Figma has really made this place their own.
5:59
Every single floor and space in this building has been designed, uh, which makes sense.
6:06
They're taking design public.
6:07
>> There's little like graphics on the floor.
6:09
There's every single uh every single digital billboard has been uh done up with a motion graphic treatment.
6:16
>> Even signs pointing you around the building.
6:18
The merch they they made merch for uh I guess the process that they do, but they made merch >> for a bunch of the employees in the building and they're all wearing it. Looks stunning. I want it for myself.
6:29
>> Everyone's very happy >> and uh it's just absolutely incredible to be here.
6:32
>> So, we will be interviewing a number of people today.
6:34
uh in and around the Figma IPO uh taking you through the story of what's unfolding here on the ground.
6:41
>> Some guy with the username Zoink.
6:43
>> Oh yeah, >> he's got a NFT profile picture.
6:43
Yeah, I think his name might be Oh, his name's Dylan Field.
6:47
Dylan Field Dylan Field will be joining the show. Very excited for that.
6:50
Uh Chris, the CTO of Figma will be joining as well.
6:53
Of course, Andrew Reed, friend of the show and former guest will be joining uh from Sequoia.
6:59
and then Danny from index from Kleiner Perkins and last but not least Lin Martin from the New York Stock Exchange itself. >> Fantastic.
7:10
So we should have about a 90-minute show for you.
7:11
Uh we are going to uh say thanks to our sponsors now. Thank you to RAMP ramp. com. Time is money. Say both.
7:18
Thank you to Figma, one of our sponsors.
7:20
We're very proud to be partnering with them.
7:22
Uh Vanta, you can go to vanta. com linear linear. app graphite graphite. dev devidsleep.
7:27
com of course uh wander you can find your happy place at wander.
7:32
com if you're looking to trade public securities uh adquick.
7:37
com out ofome advertising made easy and measurable bezel uh go to getbbezzle. com numeralhq. com adio. com thin.
7:45
ai AI and of course reream which wouldn't which uh the stream wouldn't be possible without.
7:51
So without further ado, let's uh take you through what else is in the news so then we can dive more deeply into the Figma API.
7:56
So uh we covered this yesterday.
8:00
>> A little bit distracting.
8:00
Everybody keeps breaking out into applause.
8:03
>> People are really really happy.
8:03
It's uh it's we'll get into some of the timeline and what's going on.
8:08
>> For me for me on a personal level, I mean I'll start this off by saying uh nothing on today's show is financial advice.
8:14
We're not qualified to give financial advice. We're qualified.
8:16
Uh but I do feel qualified to talk about the product. I was lucky.
8:19
I've basically been lucky to spend my entire career >> using and I can't even hear myself because people are >> You got to yell into the mic.
8:29
>> They're really They're Yep.
8:33
>> So yeah, I'm assuming that means it's trading. >> I think it's opening. Um fantastic.
8:36
So yeah, you were going to talk about your your journey using Figma.
8:40
Uh it's it's a real overnight success.
8:43
So the the stock has officially opened. Here we go. Everyone's excited. You can hear it.
8:49
>> And uh people on X are celebrating.
8:49
They uh maybe got access to one share. >> Yes. Yes. Robin Hood.
8:54
They're having trouble with that.
8:56
>> They are uh the listings, but uh the excitement is palpable across both the online and offline world. We're seeing it here. Um >> yeah.
9:03
And there's so many people that wanted to invest in this business forever rounds and rounds ago in the private markets.
9:08
Uh and it's uh it's public companies wanted to invest in Figma at one point. >> Yes. Yes.
9:14
Do a little bit more than invest. >> Yes. Yes. Yes.
9:17
>> But anyways, um yeah, I was going to say I mean the context here, you know, uh it's very surreal for me. I I've been lucky.
9:24
I don't really know a time before Figma.
9:27
>> Sketch was like kind of on the way out.
9:29
Um I I used it, you know, here and there early in my career, but I've been in Figma every single day.
9:33
uh as somebody that never identified as a designer.
9:36
I'm sure more of a more of a more of an ideas guy, more of a product guy. Sure.
9:42
>> Um and uh it's just been with me throughout my entire career and and it um someone was saying on the timeline uh I think it was Norard who was saying uh you can tell when a product's made with love and despite Figma, you know, growing and and launching so many different products over the years, uh you can just tell that the people that design and build Figma care so much about the people that use the products. So, >> totally.
10:04
Yeah, a true overnight success.
10:07
Four years uh working four years grinding >> grinding to get to launch fat MVP as they call it.
10:11
Uh and then another decade or so uh building the public uh building the product and the customer base and launching a lot of products.
10:18
So what a fantastic journey.
10:20
I remember like learning about Dylan Field as this like you know teal fellow wonderkin and uh and seeing that the product was growing and that they were always getting rounds done but they were never like the totally frothy company.
10:32
It was just like compounding the >> compound.
10:35
I was looking I I pulled it up earlier.
10:37
So index did the seed round.
10:37
Uh and and somebody uh Terrence Rohan I guess was in there as well.
10:42
I'm so I'm sure he's happy today.
10:44
Uh and then Greylock did the series A, but the seed round was 3. 8 million.
10:48
Somewhat of a modest seed dollars.
10:52
The series A was by Greylock for 14 uh million in total.
10:55
KP did the B a $25 million round.
10:58
uh Andrew Reed and Sequoia came in and did uh 40 and then uh the series D was 50.
11:04
And then the other thing is I believe it was uh GC and Iconic. Yeah.
11:11
>> That did the round in um 2022. >> Okay.
11:16
>> Um I'm going to look it up. >> Sure.
11:19
>> But anyways, the vibes here on Wall Street are good.
11:21
It's absolutely electric if you look at >> Yeah. It's not just Figma.
11:23
>> Yeah. It's not just Figma. timing is remarkable because I mean yesterday we got news that the the US GDP grew at 3% which beat estimates uh and so a the economy has returned to growth is on the front of the Wall Street Journal of course uh we covered this a little bit
11:37
yesterday but uh obviously a good environment people were talking about like will the IPO window open and it kind of opened months ago but people were still not declaring it fully open because it felt like oh this is one special company that's sneaking out this is just one maybe this Corwe that makes
11:55
sense that makes sense coins and now it's like okay well all of the companies that make sense are now going public and uh it's really >> yeah and there was some commentary earlier uh on the timeline people talking about more companies need to be taking advantage of this moment right there's a lot of companies that probably
12:12
you know the the windows wide open right it is um if it makes sense but it doesn't make sense for every company to go public for a variety of reasons >> and the bar is just so high now >> it is >> part of what makes a Figma IPO special just looking at the rule of 40 and just looking at their business broadly. It's
12:26
It's um >> you know coming out and and you know day one being one of the most impressive companies in SAS. >> Yeah. Yeah.
12:34
Uh and then the other news is that the Fed has kept rates steady over rare disscents.
12:38
Two of the members of the Fed said uh no we should lower rates but they were overruled and the Fed kept rates high.
12:45
And this is interesting because you you'd think if they if they cut rates we'd see the market ripping anymore even more.
12:50
the market's already ripping, which is kind of like it feels like a little bit of like a safety deposit box, like a a rainy day fund that if something doesn't go well in the markets, there's still that lever to pull.
13:02
And so it it it feels reassuring that the economy is growing well.
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We're also seeing big tech earnings perform very well.
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And then we also have high rates.
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So there's a number of le like the health of the consumer is strong, unemployment's doing well.
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that there's just good news all across the economy which I feel like we've been dancing around from one one bull case, one minor story, one sliver of hope for a while.
13:25
Now we're really firing on all >> big tech uh big deck uh big tech having just blow out earnings yesterday.
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>> They call Figma big deck your decks.
13:35
>> I've made so many decks in Figma, you wouldn't believe.
13:37
Um uh but uh yeah, big tech just blowing out earnings. Microsoft Yes. >> Uh Meta, etc.
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Uh certainly doesn't hurt.
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Yeah, I saw the I saw the headline number.
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Uh we talked about Google having something like a hundred billion dollars in in cloud backlog.
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So if they could fill it today, they could just make a hundred billion dollars of I mean these might be longer data contracts.
13:58
People might not kind of business this is not financial advice but business advice.
14:04
Build up a hundred billion dollar customer backlog, demand backlog. Just do that.
14:08
>> Yeah, especially on that everything else will kind of Yeah, the share price will take care of itself at that point.
14:12
So Google's been doing very well.
14:13
Google's been doing very well. I apparently Azure and Microsoft cloud has even an even larger backlog something around 300 billion I was seeing I'm not sure um but uh the Wall Street Journal is breaking down Microsoft's cloud business which is driving a lot of the profits that makes sense in the age of
14:29
AI and every relationship with open AI >> exactly and so uh the Wall Street Journal kicks off by saying demand for Microsoft's artificial intelligence services continues to pay off for the company its cloud computing unit saw another high growth quarter while the tech giant spends heavily fully on building out its AI data centers. Uh now
14:44
Uh now there has been some timeline and turmoil over whether or not the depreciation is uh the depreciation calculations are too aggressive for some of the hyperscalers.
14:56
Someone was talking about meta specifically, but um I'm I when I was reading into it, a lot of people were saying like no, the depreciation schedule is widely disclosed.
15:03
It's actually very well understood.
15:04
They're not doing anything that crazy.
15:06
And yes, it feels like it feels crazy to go out and buy a ton of the most advanced Nvidia GPUs that might be quote unquote obsolete like next year when there's a new uh model and new uh hardware out there that you want to be that we want to be taking advantage of.
15:22
But if you think about those cloud workloads staying around and growing and doing the thing that is that they are capable at for a very long time. >> Yeah.
15:30
And we've covered a lot on the show sort of like capability overhang.
15:33
Even if the models don't get smarter, which they are, there's still so much to build and so much value to unlock with the agentic workflows.
15:39
And who doesn't love >> I mean, there's so many like just PDFs to pipeline into databases and just >> we're still getting really good.
15:46
We're getting really good at PDFs. >> Knowledge retrieval.
15:48
Just just basic knowledge retrieval is just a massive market for for for business overall.
15:51
So, um the cloud's groups the cloud groups strong performance uh powered Microsoft during it the last quarter of the fiscal year.
16:01
The company on Wednesday also outlined that its first quarter would be better than analysts projected.
16:05
Wall Street cheered and the result cheered the results sending shares of Microsoft up 9% in aftermarket trading.
16:11
The support carries over if the support carries over to trading Thursday which is today.
16:17
The company could be worth around $4 trillion.
16:19
That's that number that Nvidia broke.
16:22
Uh but uh also of course their capex is growing um significantly and they are getting very very close to spending over $25 billion in a current in a single quarter on capex but when you have that type of cloud backlog makes a lot of sense to build the data centers to service that backlog.
16:39
>> Yeah has also been fairly pragmatic if you think about um >> you know some of I mean he's conducted multiple layoffs this year.
16:45
He's clearly uh feeling the pull of AI but not getting over his skis.
16:50
wants to wants, you know, seems to be managing uh through uh this kind of euphoric uh uh revenue ramp. Yeah. Very well.
17:01
>> I saw I saw a funny post that was like something the effect of like, well, we now know that Satcha is good for his 80 billion.
17:07
>> Y because he blew out earnings and he's been doing fantastically.
17:09
So, uh, just since April where after, uh, liberation day and all of the big tech stocks kind of selling off in the first quarter of the year, Microsoft's been an absolute tear, up 20% over the baseline on the year where the S&P 500's been around 8% up and so outperforming the S&P 500 broadly.
17:28
Big tech continues undefeated.
17:30
Uh, the windows >> Microsoft is uh, sitting at 3. 98 trillion.
17:34
It's up 4% today, but they're just touching 4T. So close. So close.
17:40
>> Well, good luck to them and everyone involved.
17:42
Uh >> the the funny thing to think about is uh imagine you joined Meta. >> Yeah.
17:48
>> You know, maybe a couple weeks ago >> and the stock with with this like, you know, massive uh nine figure comp uh structure and then you're immediately you made you you've been averaging basically making you know an extra million dollars a day in stockbased comp.
18:03
If you you know another 10%, right?
18:06
Um people were running the math on how many AI researchers um you know you you know the the added uh you know you could you could Zuck could go and do this this round of aggressive >> every single day every single day for for a while. >> It's wild.
18:20
Um so let's continue with Microsoft earnings.
18:22
Uh the Windows maker is among the many tech companies trying to cash in on the expected AI windfall.
18:29
uh the cloud offerings its cloud offerings put it in stronger position to capitalize than other firms because of course they are uh very neutral in terms of what they are building such has been very model agnostic he has great access to open AAI which is a leading API but then he's also happy to sell you llama
18:45
or gro or anything else and so uh he's he's he's kind of acting as a de de facto model router in many ways the model router companies are obviously doing something different and helpful in in other contexts especially in terms of bidding against Microsoft He's excited to be a platform, >> but but he is embracing the platform. Of Of course. Of course. >> Yeah.
19:02
I'm interested to see if the markets when when the OpenAI Microsoft negotiation around their whole licensing deal, uh, they're cheering again.
19:09
Uh, not exactly sure why, but I I love the sound of it.
19:14
Um, >> and uh, anyways, it'll be interesting to see if the market reacts positively to that at all.
19:20
I know Satia cares a lot about the partnership and uh I'm sure both sides are are negotiating their hearts out.
19:28
>> So Satia Nadella said we are going through a generational tech shift with AI. Absolutely true.
19:32
Microsoft reported revenue of 76.
19:35
4 billion for its fourth fiscal quarter.
19:38
The figure topped Wall Street's expectations.
19:39
It's closely watched Azure cloud business grew 39% grow uh beating expectations.
19:45
This is already a massive business in a highly competitive market.
19:48
They compete directly with GCP and AWS and so they're doing fantastically.
19:52
All the cloud providers seem to be doing very well.
19:54
Operating income increased 22% to 34.
19:54
3 billion higher than consensus projections.
20:00
So they beat on topline and bottom line.
20:02
Um the company said net income was 27.
20:04
2 billion or $365 a diluted share.
20:09
That figure also topped analyst projections.
20:11
They're just blowing it out across the board.
20:12
This AI adoption is really helping the whole whole portfolio.
20:17
It certainly gives us great confidence in our ability to continue to lead in the cloud and AI wave that is here.
20:22
And so in other news, uh uh the uh micro uh uh meta also beat earnings and went up what 10% something like that.
20:33
Uh you mentioned this soaring meta ad revenue fuels push into artificial intelligence.
20:38
Uh 22% revenue growth in its second quarter.
20:41
We've talked to a lot of people about this.
20:44
Like they're just like when you're in one of these companies that has the ability to continue to compound seemingly endlessly, it's just one of the best uh >> online ads are a big market. >> Yeah.
20:55
One of the best like financial phenomenon to ever exist. Yeah.
20:57
Uh >> and so uh uh showing that core ad revenue uh business remains strong at a time when the company is investing billions of dollars into artificial intelligence.
21:08
For the first time this year, the company is spending its top capital is uh held its top capital spending projection steady.
21:14
A move that is sure to ease investor concerns o after uh Mark Zuckerberg's AI spending spree.
21:21
Shares rose more than 11% in after hours trading.
21:23
And it's interesting to read into the capex numbers because we were we were talking about that they might be limited on power.
21:30
So it might not be that Mark Zuckerberg and the Meta team want to necessarily hold back capex, but the market and and the and the and the public market certainly is looking at that as oh well um you know ad revenue grew a ton and you didn't even need to spend more on capex.
21:43
Maybe that's coming down the down the pipe in coming quarters but not this quarter.
21:47
And so everything across the board looks looks much better for the company.
21:50
Um shares rose more than 11% in after hours trading.
21:54
The results show the extent to which Meta's advertising business will continue to pay for the company's outsized AI ambitions as well as how the AI tools are contributing to to its strength. Sales came in at 47.
22:04
5 billion ahead of analyst expectations and net income was at 18.
22:10
3 billion, also ahead of market expectations.
22:12
Technology giant said it expects to post between 17 and 24% revenue growth year-over-year for the current quarter.
22:19
the investments it's making in AI are already paying off in its ads business, said a researcher.
22:26
Um, Meta is the third biggest technology company to report this earning cycle and shareholders are keeping a close watch on the extent to which revenue is increasing as a result of the AI boom relative to spending levels.
22:37
So, >> and Geer uh Capital is reporting on X Meta is now up 760% from its 2022 low after the failure of the metaverse. Never doubt Zuck.
22:50
Obviously, there was a bunch of other factors going on there.
22:51
Broader correction, rise in in Yeah, the metaverse bet certainly didn't translate to bottom line.
23:00
>> I do remember you the the iconic image of Zach's face in the metaverse, you know. The Wii graphics.
23:07
>> Okay, we're a little bit away from the metaverse.
23:09
>> And and the and the and the the Oculus or the MetaQuest would sell well at uh at Christmas time, but it wouldn't like the stickiness just wasn't there to drive real adoption.
23:17
And then of course, you know, the whole goal was never just to be in the hardware business and sell $300 headsets.
23:23
The goal was to be a platform and then take an ad store like cut of all software that's sold through those headsets.
23:29
You need you can't just get the install base up.
23:31
You actually have to get the DAU base up.
23:33
That hasn't happened yet, but maybe it will in the future.
23:36
>> Meta ended 2024 with uh 44 billion in cash in cash equivalents.
23:43
>> They're now down to 12 billion.
23:45
>> Uh so he's been sp he's on a spending spree.
23:47
Okay, >> which which makes sense. We've been tracking it.
23:50
I wanted to cover an article here that Sarah Guo just posted.
23:56
She says, "Design goes public.
23:56
It took Dylan Field and Evan Wallace," and I think she's here in the building somewhere. We'll try to get her on.
24:01
She says, "It took Dylan Field and Evan Wallace more than four years to go from founding Figma to public launch.
24:06
They built Figma playing for the endgame, not the headlines.
24:10
Dylan didn't chase growth at all costs or settle what they could ship in 10 weeks.
24:14
He didn't try to crush competitors.
24:16
Instead, he spent a decade obsessing over the product he imagined should exist in the best company he could.
24:23
Making design and software product delivery more powerful and collaborative.
24:26
He consistently acted with integrity and thoughtfulness turns out not just good turns out that's not just good philosophy.
24:35
It's a strategy for a special business.
24:37
In 2014, when John Lily led Greylock series A investment, Dylan and his team had seven people in a nondescript office on Alma Street in PaloAlto and barely an alpha product.
24:49
But they described a future with remarkable foresight, a high performance, collaborative multiplayer design tool built natively for the web, harnessing all its power, changing product development forever.
24:59
And this product was just so incredibly viral.
25:03
Obviously, people don't design in a silo.
25:05
They would uh make something, share it with people instantly.
25:07
you could just open it in the browser, you could see everyone else's cursor.
25:10
And we take that kind of software for granted now, but it's because so many different companies realized how powerful it was and uh moved to uh and you know, we're inspired by by Figma.
25:22
>> I mean, it's the difference between Instagram and Hipstatic like they both had photo filtering and people saw them as like tools for photo filtering, but Instagram bootstrapped a network and was worth billions and now probably have you spun it out worth like hundreds of billions.
25:35
So, uh, Sarah says, "Figma had its fair share of challenges.
25:37
Market size was an early question, right?
25:41
People were just looking at the market and being like, how many designers are there really out there?
25:44
How many are willing to pay for this?" Totally. Totally.
25:47
>> Um, and they were burning uh Sarah says they were burning $800,000 a month pre-launch.
25:52
So, no no sign no real sign of validation other than their own conviction. >> Um, >> so bold.
26:00
She says, "Like with any startup, getting early pilot customers required cajoling of our friends.
26:06
Competitors who built less product for a while seemed ahead. Dylan persisted.
26:10
Driven more by conviction than fear.
26:10
He assembled a team of remarkable people.
26:15
Chris Raasmus who's going to be on later show Kuamato, Claire Butler, Pier, Malwani, Kyle Parish, Amanda, Clea, uh, Yuki, Yamashita, and more.
26:25
Each of these fig mates, which is a good name, >> fig mates.
26:31
contributed extraordinary talent. >> Fig leaves. >> Fig leaves.
26:34
>> But fig mates makes more sense.
26:36
>> Dylan himself evolved dramatically along the way from a clearly talented, thoughtful dropout founder to a formidable CEO capable of scaling a legendary company.
26:45
And um this is a special special one for me to to again to just experience the product first as a user and then somebody that uh you know followed followed tech closely and being able to watch watch his evolution as a CEO is just amazing.
26:59
I mean the hardest >> you learned who Dylan Field was or did you use the product first?
27:07
>> I think he always had insane aura.
27:07
I do think I used the product I must have used the product first.
27:12
probably used the product first or it was brought into my my organization first >> cuz again it's not like he was coming out the gate raising 50 million or whatever.
27:20
These were like relatively normal rounds.
27:22
They were >> great >> completely different go to market motion back then too.
27:26
It was viral video growth which was entirely the showing the power of that.
27:33
>> Um at just a few million in revenue the board received a letter about aligning our path to IPO.
27:38
Very few people uh very few other people uh play secret Hitler as ruthlessly against their own spouse or casually suggest starting a game of diplomacy at 11 p. m.
27:50
These aren't just games to Dylan.
27:52
They were exercises and long-term strategy, the same discipline that meant Figma.
27:56
I don't know if the I don't know if uh >> we're getting news that the first trade might happen in a few minutes.
28:01
And so I think people are are getting ready for the first trade to happen.
28:05
And so they're chanting Figma, Figma, Figma, Figma, >> Fig. >> I love it. >> This is wild.
28:14
>> Absolutely the with the piece when you're ready.
28:16
>> Uh Sarah says, "At Figma's IPO road show last week, two developer advocates."
28:22
>> Uh great job, Jake and Tom.
28:22
Spent the first 35 minutes of the presentation doing a comprehensive live demo. Wow.
28:29
>> It's something I'm convinced had never been done before to a room full of bankers, mutual fund managers, and hedge fund investors.
28:34
Afterwards, Dylan turned to me with that familiar uh slightly nutty gleam in his eye.
28:40
I want them to understand the product they're investing in.
28:43
They're all going to be designers eventually. >> Wow.
28:46
>> I do believe that uh fig I in some ways I become a better designer over the years even though I'm not classically trained just because the Figma product's gotten better.
28:56
>> Like as Figma gets better, I get better.
28:58
And that's such a powerful feedback loop.
29:00
>> Um today millions rely on Figma and its scope and power continues expanding.
29:03
The IPO is proof that special founders can reshape even entrenched categories and and that they will find the surrounding hills to climb and focus on product is rarely wrong.
29:14
It underscores that technology matters.
29:16
Uh we covered this yesterday and at config but you know that focus on WebGL early like that was that was the why now.
29:23
Um and uh it's it it can be rare to have a true technological why now.
29:29
Often times founders try to >> I think that's the first trade. >> First trade.
29:39
>> Dylan just rang the bell for the first. >> First trade is at 90. >> 93. >> All right. Climbing to 93. >> Climbing. Wow. That is amazing.
29:49
>> Dylan looks absolutely fantastic.
29:49
And is that a purple suit?
29:51
I think >> that's remarkable.
29:57
We should just turn this around.
29:57
Show the screen right there. >> Good idea. >> There you go. You can see the screen.
30:06
>> Put it Put it down and just point it up maybe. >> There we go. >> There we go. >> Oh, >> I don't know. >> So emotional. So emotional. >> It's remarkable.
30:19
going through the the almost acquisition blocked >> and to make it to make it back here >> uh well beyond uh and and the >> the employees too.
30:30
I mean the resilience, right?
30:32
We saw this last week >> uh not or the week before, you know, the the windsurf team thinking they're getting acquired by OpenAI roller coaster doesn't go through >> uh and and that was a different scenario, but uh they had they really had to >> uh build uh you know find find a new gear. >> Yeah.
30:50
And I mean we we all know that there was a breakup fee, but >> yeah, it didn't hurt.
30:54
>> But the val like the the value of focus is just so underrated.
30:56
And you think about that for that like how long were they going through that process?
30:59
like a year and uh the amount of distraction both from just like a legal compliance financial thing but also just like well you think you're going to partner up with somebody.
31:09
Are you going to build a competitor?
31:11
Are you going to be like, "Okay, let's just not put that.
31:12
Let's push that out on the road map because we we we're partner Scott Bellski was I imagine too it running effectively running running the show over there."
31:26
>> Uh and uh you know disappointing for him as well, but he obviously uh was uh very congratulatory.
31:35
>> Sarah says, "I'll close it out."
31:35
She says, "We're all going to be designers eventually. Congratulations, Figma.
31:39
And uh yeah, design's going public today.
31:45
I'm gonna pull up Scott's post. >> Yeah. Yeah. Read me Scott's post. >> What a crazy day.
31:51
>> Citadel Securities in the back. Looking great.
31:54
>> Scott says, "Thrilled for my friend Dylan and the whole Figma team today upon such a milestone.
31:58
There are few products that have had such an impact on the lives of designers, our everyday experiences of products and the value of design."
32:05
He says, "I had um a unique opportunity to get to know the entire Figma management team and business very deeply a few years ago."
32:12
Of course, Scott was uh at Adobe at the time.
32:14
Uh you know, one of the uh key players in the deal.
32:21
Uh and he says, "What I learned inspired me in many ways and makes me confident that this team is just getting started.
32:26
This is a team with deep empathy for empathy for their customer.
32:29
They of course uh in my words are the customer.
32:32
That's part of what >> Figma uses Figma to make Figma.
32:34
It's like this perfect uh >> perfect uh partnership.
32:39
>> Yeah, the S1 showed that. >> The S1 showed that.
32:41
It was very nicely one of all time.
32:44
>> U but yeah, the the the the story here is the thoughtfulness, right?
32:47
Down uh down to the signage in the building today.
32:52
>> Every single step has been considered and they have to, right?
32:55
If they want to help other people have great design, >> they need to uh lead by example.
32:59
I have a post here uh from John Lily who was um >> I believe John was at uh Greylock. Okay. Um let me confirm that.
33:12
>> Yeah, I saw Greylock on the cap table. Pretty big shareholder. Probably overlock. Greylock led the A. >> Okay.
33:19
>> Uh held on through a bunch of proats. Did quite well. >> Yep.
33:24
Uh John says today's IPO is a landmark moment for Figma.
33:27
not just a financial milestone, but a powerful validation of Dylan and Evans founding vision back in 2012 to eliminate the gap between imagination and reality.
33:36
Uh, Figma's relentless focus on product, community, and craft has reshaped how the world designs.
33:42
What began as a bold technical challenge, building a web-based design tool that felt native, evolved into a platform that helped millions of creators design and build together.
33:51
In a 2003 interview about the iPod, Steve Jobs famously said, "Design is not just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works."
33:59
Figma built around this idea, building tools so that designers of all kinds come together not just to make things beautiful, but to make them work better.
34:09
And now we're standing at the threshold of a new era, one defined by the rise of artificial intelligence.
34:13
It's an especially important moment to ask, what does the future of design look like?
34:17
I think that's every on everybody's mind.
34:21
I think a lot of people have good uh ideas for what it can look like.
34:23
Um John says, "Design has always existed in the space between tools and human intention."
34:30
And as Mitch Kapor wrote in his 1990 software design manifesto, what is design?
34:36
It's where you stand with a foot in two worlds.
34:38
The world of technology and the world of people and human purposes.
34:42
And you try to bring the two together. That's powerful.
34:44
uh 35 years later, that's still the clearest expression I know of what great design strives to do.
34:51
And it's what Figma enables, a connection between imagination and reality and between the systems we build and the people we build them for, between our machines and ourselves.
35:02
Uh not not John, my words, not John's, but uh it's so funny to think about how when you are interacting with anything online, there's like probably like a 80% chance that it was built with Figma at some point or another.
35:15
You can't open an app on your phone >> and not have a designer under the hood that uh probably spends, you know, hours and hours a day. Yeah.
35:23
>> Uh in Figma, I have so many great I have so many great memories.
35:26
Um >> and the stock is over $100 now. This is remarkable.
35:31
Uh, and I saw something that I it seemed like there was potentially some sort of circuit breaker going on where there was uh like a limit up where it seemed like they stopped trading for a little bit and then resumed, but uh the stock is jumping all over the place. I'm seeing like 107 now.
35:45
Uh really really on a rocket ship to die.
35:51
>> Uh couple fond memories for me.
35:51
One is with Brandon Jacobe. He's at X.
35:57
>> Uh he's a free agent now.
35:57
We'll see how long that stigma users to ever do it.
36:01
>> And I have so there was so many nights when we were building party round >> that uh it was it was like deep co so we were we were often remote and so many nights we would spend >> just in Figma for and had zoom in the background Figma just like just grinding it out and uh I I cherish those memories.
36:18
The other thing uh Simit over uh formerly at Andre uh brought up today when I posted earlier, he said that when I was pitching A6Z originally, almost the entire pitch, I didn't have a deck when I first met them.
36:31
So the entire pitch was walking around all of our product design in Figma, showing them the product, showing them where we wanted to take it.
36:38
And so it's really just been um >> such a such a core core part.
36:42
Um I'll close it out with John.
36:46
He says, "On a personal level too, this is a significant moment for me.
36:49
I was lucky in my career to be mentored by some of the best thinkers and designers in the world.
36:54
Terry Winterrad and David Kelly at Stanford and later Mitch Kapoor and many others.
36:58
And from the very first time I set foot in Figma's offices, I felt like I'd come home.
37:03
Dylan and Evan had built a temple of design with typography books scattered around. >> We love temples.
37:10
Let's give it up for temples.
37:12
>> Let's give it up for Temples.
37:12
But the whole company culture was infused with a belief in and a reverence for designers and their work.
37:17
And that's still the core value of Figma today. >> I love it.
37:21
>> You I I uh we we made somebody mad sometime uh when we joked on the show.
37:27
>> We joked on the show that uh like like Figma hadn't like released some feature fast enough and to to to uh to create more responsive designs automatically.
37:37
And we were like people were people were protesting the street for this one obviously.
37:41
Somebody somebody came out and and very angrily messaged us saying >> they weren't protesting. No one was protesting. This is fake news.
37:47
We were like, "Okay, we were joking, but people do love Figma. It's a thing." Like, it's okay.
37:52
>> People get emotional about it. That was the thing.
37:53
We were at We were at Config and and the number of people that there was somebody from every country there.
37:58
>> It was standing room only. It was crazy.
37:59
The the community is wild. Yeah.
38:01
>> Um >> uh John says, "One of the other things that Mitch said to me about entrepreneurship is that you've got to build a house you want to live in.
38:07
In other words, build organizations that can help create the world you want."
38:13
and empowering the team at the world of so I mean the the in a world without Figma every digital product that you use is less beautiful every website that you use is less beautiful >> do you think uh in the original Microsoft formulation of what a platform
38:37
is Figma fits that definition so the original uh I think it was Bill Gates's conception of it was a platform is a is a business or product that where the value that is created on top of the platform is greater than the value that is captured by the platform. So the
38:51
So the classic example is yeah is Microsoft Windows there like the Windows app ecosystem uh uh is larger than the amount of money captured by just Windows licenses and when you think about Figma it's a little bit different because although there is a third party ecosystem there are also like design agencies that probably wouldn't exist. >> Yeah.
39:13
I mean the part of why Figma has such a great brand is they can't possibly they they can't possibly capture there's so much value creation like happening on the platform.
39:22
Y >> and it's as simple as like a company signing up, two founders paying 50 bucks a month or whatever.
39:27
>> Everyone feels like they got their money's worth. >> Yeah.
39:28
And and creating something that allows them to go a deck that allows them to raise millions of dollars or creating a product with millions of users.
39:35
>> Um and and that and that flow of like somebody can be a freelance designer, sign up for Figma, >> create designs that they they can go sell and and um yeah, I I think it definitely fits the definition.
39:44
It's it's very much a it's an operating system for people that design and build software.
39:50
We talked a little bit about it yesterday.
39:52
Ben Thompson gave a breakdown on stratey which you should go read and subscribe to obviously of this Figmass one and the IPO prospects and um he was highlighting the potential the potential benefit of being a public company and having public company stock to do uh M&A with and I'm wondering where you sit on the M&A question.
40:11
Um there's the world where uh Figma has a talented team.
40:16
They can build new products.
40:18
They also have this network effect.
40:19
They have amazing go to market sales motion.
40:22
Um but uh if they were to acquire something, what what do you think would be the right angle?
40:26
Is it more something like a foundational technology that can improve all the products or some sort of new line extension, new skew to add on to the portfolio of products?
40:36
Uh I I think that's where the debate.
40:40
>> Yeah, it's a great question.
40:40
I mean, I I'm less excited about what they uh I'm personally I'm more excited about them acquiring better, you know, I mean, the team is obviously beyond stack.
40:50
It's one of the most talented groups in uh in in certainly design.
40:55
Well, the most talented group in design and >> and one of the most talented teams in the industry broadly.
41:00
Uh I'm less excited about individual app plays, although there's some exciting genai uh applications that are growing quickly.
41:08
Figma has compelling products in those categories, right?
41:10
You look at Figma make, Figma sites, right?
41:12
Um, and everything they're doing around making it so that anyone within an organization can generate designs uh that are on brand.
41:21
Um, >> I guess the question is, yeah, like uh >> and again, trading has been halted at $112. Wow. uh on a limit up.
41:27
$112. Wow. uh on a limit up. Um if uh if someone goes out and builds not just a not just a tool that is complimentary but also has a network and is starting to bootstrap a network that feels like the Instagram Facebook moment and something that would potentially merit
41:47
an M&A but but just building a tool or different approach to the product or different feature always this question about like uh you know is it a feature or is it a company and I think that'll be something that people are are are debating
41:59
>> and they they acquired heard uh a buddy of mine Jordan Jordan Singer's company I think it was probably two plus years ago >> um and he was in building you know very early to building in in generative AI and I believe they integrated a lot of what he was working on >> I do wonder uh on the on the M&A topic
42:16
like what is the formula for success because there's a little bit of a meme in Silicon Valley that like you should never sell your company it can never work then there are like these zombie aqua hires that feel like something that people want to avoid employed. And so,
42:29
And so, uh, one of the questions that's been kicking around my head is like, what is the shape of the company or founding team or employee base that is suitable for an acquisition that could actually integrate well and be something where everyone is happy a decade later like, oh yeah, that was a fantastic partnership. That was great.
42:45
Um it it it probably has to be something around the uh >> the uh the the acceleration that would happen post acquisition and then also uh just the the actual integration and and >> yeah there was a while back you remember this company was a sixmon own uh six-month old soloowned vibe cutter base 44 sold to Wix for 80 million which was not uh to my knowledge not in the game at all from from a gener generative AI standpoint.
43:14
So, hey, >> uh, looks like we have our first >> Let's bring him in.
43:18
We have Andrew coming in.
43:20
>> Andrew Reed in a beautiful suit looking >> somebody somebody confused me.
43:23
Uh, you guys earlier they said, "Hey, you're Andrew, right?"
43:27
I said, "I am not, but he is close by.
43:29
What's going on, >> Andrew? Welcome to the stream." You are live. How you doing? >> You are live.
43:35
Uh, here's my New York Stock Exchange.
43:38
>> Thank you for having us.
43:38
>> You guys look like you were made to be here.
43:40
We're very happy to be here.
43:41
decision to put on the suits 6 months ago has paid off flawlessly because we don't have to dress up for something like this.
43:46
>> Is this my microphone?
43:47
>> That's your microphone. >> Wonderful.
43:48
>> Uh, how are you doing? Give us your reactions.
43:49
How's this day been for you? >> Um, let's see.
43:52
Well, first off, congrats to your initial public uh appearance at the New York Stock Exchange. It's really exciting.
43:58
Um, >> today has been it's been a good day.
43:59
You know, you open uh Dylan rang the bell at 9:30 and it's 2:11 p. m. Eastern right now. >> Sure.
44:07
>> So, we've been milling around for many hours and >> it's a little exhausting.
44:09
it opened and yeah, it's amazing seeing the team here um and just the excitement of everyone chanting Figma and seeing all the traders in their swagged out Figma jackets.
44:19
>> Yeah, the jackets are going to go and start market, you know, bidding uh jackets after this because those are totally iconic.
44:26
The thing that stood out to me is all the little like they really made they really made uh NY their home.
44:33
Like every like every single place you look there's something Figma and it's just so so incredibly well done. >> Yeah.
44:39
Yeah, this one of my one of the experiences I've had with Figma, you know, dating back to when we first invested seven years ago was it's a company that success overnight success.
44:50
the um >> it's a company that's always had extraordinary attention to detail and you know it shows up when you do an all hands at their office um and the way >> the board slides the S1 config the conference and >> um how they applied that attention to
45:04
detail to the NY is incredible because >> you know there's applying the attention to detail and then realizing all the things you can do in terms of the signs on the ground and the party outside like they just did an unbelievable job. >> You have to be doing things that haven't
45:15
>> You have to be doing things that haven't been done before. >> Yeah.
45:17
I mean, I think the the takeover outside was like breathtaking.
45:19
And I'm obviously very biased cuz when I see the pickle logo, I get very excited.
45:22
But yeah, it's like >> Did you see the road show?
45:25
Did you go to any of the road show?
45:26
I heard there was like a long product demo there, which is kind of uncommon. >> Um, yeah.
45:30
So, I think it's I think this is true for, you know, uh, many CEOs, but especially for Dylan.
45:35
Dylan >> cares a lot about the product and it's important that everybody who is considering investing in the company really knows what fig not just what Figma stands for and design and creativity and all the things you see but really how the product works.
45:48
Um and it was not a five minute flyby, you know, look at the cool, you know, shiny features.
45:56
The product demo was, you know, they were in the weeds.
45:58
Um >> it was Yeah, I was uh I in fact uncovered parts of the product I didn't know existed. Um, but that was good.
46:04
I think it's important again like part of, you know, that's like who Dylan is, right?
46:10
He like actually cares so deeply about every single pixel and and >> uh every single feature and then that shows through in How early did you actually meet Dylan?
46:19
Sarah Sarah Guo was posting earlier that pre-launch they were burning $800,000 a month, which just sounds like that's the most nerve-wracking scenario for any, you know, a lot of founders will go through that at some point.
46:31
Um, but uh when did you realize what a special foundary was?
46:36
>> Well, Dylan uh and Evan, by the way, I think just uh I think it's it's a nice moment to take a pause and just give a shout out to Evan Wallace and just like an absolute legend.
46:44
And I think the stories that people here tell about Evan are just, you know, it'll go on.
46:48
Um >> Chris, who's going to come on next, you know, is Figma CTO.
46:52
He'll, I think, have a lot of he'll tell you actually all the stuff Evan did in the codebase, but allegedly it's insane.
47:00
Uh and you know >> well well and and just going like taking another step back um people have like people love to use Figma as an example that it's okay to take a long time to ship your product and I think most like almost always when I hear a founder say
47:17
well Figma took four years I go well you're not Evan Wallace >> and you're not like fundamentally changing you know the way that like software works online uh you you you're just um you're building enterprise workflow workflows you should probably ship like next month. >> Yeah. The other thing about the um you >> Yeah.
47:32
The other thing about the um you know you can take take as long as you need you know um you know Figma there's this there's a something that Roof talks a lot about for our business which is the red queen dynamic.
47:43
You have to run faster and faster just to stay in the same place.
47:46
And I think in a world of accelerating technology change like >> uh in order to win in your markets you just have to run the company faster and do more.
47:56
And obviously like AI is allowing companies to do a lot more.
47:59
>> Isn't the red queen race usually an anecdote of something you want to avoid getting into? >> Yeah.
48:03
Well, that's just the truth of technology I think. Yeah.
48:05
>> The truth of venture capital and the truth of enterprise software business.
48:10
>> If you look at how you know when Figma went from four products to eight products at config, right?
48:12
Like >> uh the pace I think everyone who uses the product feels it like the pace is just picking up. >> Yeah.
48:19
We got a little preview of config and and uh I I messaged Nai.
48:21
I was like, "Wait, all you're you're announcing all of this at config?"
48:29
>> Like all all four of these like it was like four majors announcements and and that's what that's what picking up the pace looks like and like finding that new gear. >> Yeah.
48:37
Uh how are you thinking about uh org design changing in the age of AI?
48:43
This is something I've been talking to a lot of folks about.
48:44
There's taking uh you know designers and giving them the ability to ship code.
48:48
kind of this flip from going from a zerox engineer, a designer to a 1x engineer.
48:52
And that gain can sometimes be better than taking a 10x engineer and making them a little bit better because you just unlock this new capability.
48:59
How are you thinking about companies just broadly thinking about AI as a as a product vertical that is its own silo versus something that infuses the whole company?
49:08
What what are you hearing? What are you seeing?
49:11
>> So I've been I've been thinking about that question a lot.
49:12
Um, you know, the way I kind of craft the archetype would be the creative technologist.
49:17
And >> I think in the same way that all of us are capable of scribbling something on a piece of paper when we're bored in a meeting, I think similarly all of us are going to be capable of creating something on the internet.
49:28
>> It's actually interactive. Yeah. >> Exactly.
49:30
And I think that has been happening for a while.
49:31
I think it's picking up steam in an incredible pace. >> Yeah.
49:35
>> Yeah. And I think this role of creative technologist I think you know in big companies you'll still probably have siloed engineering product design you know marketing teams I think in our small companies like the founding the founding engineers founding teams people are wearing a lot of hats right and
49:52
using tools like Figma to do everything from ideiation to prompt something to iterate get in hands of users and to actually you know publish code >> I think that um the small companies I bet will leave >> my uh my buddy at Andre said that when I was first pitching them, we we weren't like actually raising it. I didn't have
50:08
I didn't have a deck and so I just was in Figma screen sharing, showing them the the product and showing them all the different ways that we were going to take it and things like that.
50:16
And it it's just and and again that that that's just like evidence of Figma not being for designers.
50:22
I never thought I thought it was a tool for building things. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Yeah.
50:26
Uh what one dynamic Ben Thompson has been talking about is that as a public company sometimes it can be easier to do M&A.
50:32
Have you ever run into that in your career just broadly of a company that where that is an important factor in kind of their long-term strategy?
50:43
I've always I've generally the meme has been like stay private as long as possible, but you know there's a reason companies go public.
50:49
There are obviously tons of benefits, but uh what what are the what is the M&A dynamic in public and private markets right now?
50:58
Yeah, I think the, you know, there's what you learn when you start out at Goldman Sachs and it's, you know, it's, you have access to the capital markets, if you need public currency for M&A, you know, blah blah blah. Tell your story.
51:07
For me, the um the the reason why I'm so happy with the IPO timing today is coming off of Config a few months ago and just like feeling the energy.
51:16
You guys were there and felt the energy amongst the community, >> like the incredible community surrounding Figma.
51:23
Um, and then being able to tell that story and all the stuff we're doing with our new product initiatives with AI and tell it to the broader world.
51:31
Um, you know, in the S1 we reported I think 13 million monthly active users, twothirds of which are not designers and >> um, you know, like >> did you >> did you know did you did you was that was that your guess early on?
51:43
Did you did you did you fully see that the that the TAM for this was not like how many designers are there and just like add it up and multiply it?
51:53
Uh did did you I imagine you believe that it could be used across >> the tam is it's similar to what I was saying with the you know I think the creative technologist archetype who's going to do a lot of things and eventually in 10 years the way that companies run their product engineering things will probably look very different.
52:09
different. I think similarly like there were there were even you know predating our investment there were definitely examples of teams that went all in on the Figma way collaborative way of building products and you had you know full product engineering design teams at small companies or even at mid-size companies I remember Airbnb and square were in our portfolio and we talked to
52:28
them before we invested and they were you know early at pioneering this you know we're getting off of the Dropbox links being sent around we you know we're going all in on on you know working in Figma And it turns out there's a much better way of shipping products if you wanted to ship really good products quickly and therefore the entire world seemingly um changed its mind in a few years. I think similarly
52:49
I think similarly some small companies are going to pioneer new ways of doing things.
52:54
They're going to move really fast.
52:54
It's going to be obvious that there's like a new archetype emerging.
52:57
I think many of those people are going to live in Figma.
53:00
I think the most creative community on the internet today already exists in Figma.
53:04
Um, I I always it it it felt even I remember using it as a like a social app like in the sense that like I would get I would it'd be late at night.
53:14
I would open my laptop and I'd be like, "Oh, Brandon's up."
53:18
And I just go over to wherever he was designing.
53:20
I'd be like, "Hey, what's up, dude?"
53:22
I just type a comment and it was like this like it was like almost like uh a lot of people built these in uh these like virtual offices, but like Figma was our virtual office. That's interesting.
53:31
>> Where I would just be like, "Hey, what's up?"
53:32
or I just like start, you know, I just mess with them and like move change the button colors. >> Yeah.
53:37
The one thing I'm really excited about with um the new products is, >> you know, they're both raising the ceiling of what it is possible to do for the most creative people in Figma, you know, like with like Figma draw for instance, right?
53:50
Like the ability to do like really interesting artistic creative work inside of Figma files >> and also massively raising the floor for those of us who are, you know, more Excelincclined in our, you know, creative abilities. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
54:02
Um, and I think it's so rare to find like technology shifts that allow companies to capture both of those things.
54:09
Usually there's a trade-off. Yeah.
54:12
>> And >> yeah, it's really exciting.
54:13
>> I mean, Excel kind of serve the same purpose, but decades ago, right? >> Totally. Yeah.
54:17
Like and and similarly to the idea of, you know, Figma slides came out of this intuition or not intuition, just the reality that many people were torquing Figma files into slide decks. >> Yeah. Yeah.
54:27
Um, >> I had a a I I had a file called deck formatting that I've shared with probably hundreds of people at this point of like this is how I build decks.
54:38
Like this is how I build fundraising decks.
54:39
Here's like, you know, 50 examples for each page.
54:41
Uh, and I would just send it out to everyone.
54:43
They could just copy it and start working off of it. >> Can you have me that? That sounds great. >> It's great.
54:49
I I We don't We don't have to make many decks at at We should start We should start making more decks just for each other. >> We should. Yeah, it' be great. Uh, last question.
54:59
I think we'll let you go.
54:59
Um, I I want to talk about the culture and and hiring changes and just how uh going public changes any of that.
55:06
How do you describe the culture of like someone who's a good fit to become a fig mate?
55:12
>> Oo, that's a really good question.
55:12
Um, you know, when I was reflecting >> the series C lead. >> Well, yeah.
55:18
When I was reflecting on what I was going to tweet today, you know, because there's always a fine balance, right?
55:23
balance, right? like how do I tweet something to say congrats without doing the you know can you believe this amazing event you know so I I kind of went into a very paranoid headsp space of how do I get you know not end up in the wrong >> quadrant we just go too far just you're welcome everybody
55:37
>> you said uh congrats to the incredible Figma team the most creative determined imaginative and positive group of people I'm just so happy for all of your success >> there we go >> and I was I almost responded our success >> yeah so those those four adjectives I think they are um they are uh creative. I think I tried to pull off an analogy
55:54
I think I tried to pull off an analogy when I was talking to you guys at Config about how everybody >> everybody who was at Config would be a good tattoo artist for my my face painting artist for my daughter and my brother said that was that analogy did not land. They're very creative.
56:09
>> I think they're extremely determined.
56:09
>> I think they're extremely determined. I think look this is a company that you know when the early days of burning however much money they were burning a month and not having product market fit and grinding your way to product market
56:18
fit >> and all the twists and turns over the last seven eight years since they really you know started their ascent >> but you still have like the hardcore WebGL crew and that's like it's not like quite like foundation model level AI research but it's like serious engineering. >> It's a company that does hard things.
56:31
>> It's a company that does hard things.
56:32
They are not afraid of doing really hard things.
56:34
Um >> I think they're imaginative.
56:35
I think that's uh like you know the makebelieve billboard you see in San Francisco.
56:40
It's a company that really does think out there and I think Dylan obviously Dylan is on the bleeding edge of technology and they're positive like they are >> just good human beings and you know looking at obviously the reaction to the um to the IPO is just look around these are awesome people who are so cool.
56:56
The validictorian of my high school works at Figma. Her name's Katie Zto. She's aud PM here.
57:03
She's >> literally like the smartest person I knew in high school.
57:06
And you know, now she builds products to Figma.
57:07
And anyway, um >> I'm just so happy with that.
57:10
I really am happy for their success and your success.
57:15
>> We had I didn't put it out, but uh yesterday we did the we did it meme with ramp and it was every person involved. I >> sent you that. >> Yeah, that was great.
57:24
>> And but now Ramp's congratulating Figma with the big billboard today or the big you know, they had that idea Monday.
57:30
We're on the phone with them.
57:30
and they're like, "Yeah, we think we might get a banner and like hang cuz we're our office is right across the street from Figma's New York office.
57:36
We should just hang it out."
57:38
And it's like this like 40. >> It's unbelievable.
57:40
It looks like you can I will say the the ramp thinking Figma with TVPN and New York Stock Exchange. Today's a big day. Today it's awesome. >> Well, lovely. Yeah. Thanks for being here.
57:52
Enjoy talking to everyone else and obviously I hope to see you later.
57:56
Congratulations on your success, too. >> Congratulations. We'll talk to you soon.
58:01
Let's bring in our next guest to the studio.
58:04
We are going to tweak some cameras and give you an update. What did he say? >> Celebrate the moment.
58:09
>> Celebrate the moment says Jim Kramer. We >> certainly are.
58:12
>> And we are at 10154 >> and uh it's getting quieter.
58:15
The the the the folks have uh the the Citadel Securities >> that nobody's manually executing trades.
58:24
>> I also didn't see a single crowd surfing event happen.
58:27
and we can make it happen. >> Good to meet you. Good to meet you.
58:32
>> Where should we start?
58:32
But please introduce yourself for the stream.
58:33
Let people know who you are.
58:36
>> Yeah, I'm Chris Rasmmanson. I'm the CTO at Figma. >> Great.
58:38
Uh take us a little bit through your journey with the company. When did you join?
58:41
What have you been working on? All that.
58:43
>> It's amazing to have like a barely a two sentence, you know, intro that just tells everything you need to really know.
58:49
>> Took a lot to get there.
58:50
>> Yeah, it's a lot easier now than it was in the beginning to to explain it.
58:52
But no, yeah, I joined Figma through a roundabout means I actually started off as a contractor with the company.
58:56
So um for the first 8 months I was just writing code helping to get the product launched publicly and then working from there.
59:02
Um I think the thing that stood out to me back then was just like how incredible the team was.
59:06
It was this insanely high aptitude team.
59:08
It was probably the first time in my career I felt old and yet I felt like everyone around me was just like some of the most gifted people I had a chance to work with.
59:15
And the thing that like really sold me on the company was just how much people were trying to lift each other up rather than compete with one another.
59:20
I think, you know, when you have these really fast growing startups, everyone's ambitious, everyone's hungry, and that's great, but I think it's really important to remember that, you know, you're not trying to drive towards an end state.
59:30
You're trying to build something that's lasting.
59:32
>> Does that culture just come from like four years in the trenches not being like, you know, being a quiet company and kind of building in like this monastery almost is like the vibe that I get from like the early days.
59:42
And then you kind of carry that through as opposed to the first six months are insane and then you're like ups and downs.
59:48
Sarah Sarah Guo said that the company was leading up to the launch, the company was burning like $800,000 a month and didn't have a product really out in the wild, but I have to imagine you you were using were you guys how early were you able to dog food the product and like build that conviction that hey, we've actually built something really magical here. >> Yeah.
1:00:05
So I I I started working with Figma about a month before the public launch.
1:00:08
So there was a lot of work that had already been done.
1:00:09
Um I think there was a time when people thought that, you know, everything just had to take six months and if it took any longer, you know, it wasn't interesting.
1:00:15
But, you know, hard things take time.
1:00:16
And I think it's a testament to the culture of the company and Dylan to really persevere and push through that time and bring something to the market that hadn't existed before.
1:00:25
>> So were you brought in for specific WebGL experience or was WebGL at the focus of what you did or was there were there other challenges because the the whole like the whole story gets kind of collapsed to like oh they just picked WebGL and like that was the key innovation but I'm sure there was a ton of other stuff going on. >> Yeah. Yeah.
1:00:41
WebJL was was the technology that enabled us to do graphics like custom graphics in the browser and bypass some of the traditional browser graphics stack.
1:00:47
Um I think I was brought in cuz I had this really weird intersection of things that aligned with the company.
1:00:52
So I used to work at a company called Aauna and I built a lot of their real-time kind of real-time collaboration infrastructure.
1:00:56
Um which relates to the multiplayer stuff that we've been working on at Figma.
1:00:59
And then u funny enough I I had been taking a sobatical.
1:01:03
So the reason I got introduced to Figma is because I was working on a side project just a passion project.
1:01:07
And in my case, it was writing a game engine to simulate surfing because I'm a surfer and I think I'm the only person stubborn enough to work on that long enough.
1:01:13
>> You solving Navier strokes like that.
1:01:17
There was one there was one browser surfing game that I used to play as a kid cuz I'm a surfer, too.
1:01:22
>> Uh but it's it's funny you bring up a sauna too because like as when I when I look back at like the real like start of my career, it was like I was quickly invited to a sauna and I felt like such an adult.
1:01:31
I was like, "Oh, look at me.
1:01:33
I've got this, you know, very uh cutting edge, you know, pro uh project management tool.
1:01:37
And then very quickly after that was invited to uh Figma and then ever since then, I've used the product every every single day. >> That's amazing.
1:01:44
We're we're following the same path as it's great.
1:01:48
>> So yeah, what what else were the technical challenges going on to release?
1:01:52
>> Yeah, I mean, so I mean, first off, it's just not easy.
1:01:54
I think a lot of people like when they first looked at Figma back then, they're thinking, oh, a design tool, a single player tool.
1:01:58
But under the hood, Figma is this real-time multiplayer engine.
1:02:01
to be multiplayer from day one. >> Yes.
1:02:04
Because I think like the the opportunity back then and the opportunity still today is not just to make a designer more efficient and more effective.
1:02:10
It's also to bring the team closer together to enable the best ideas to surface to the front and to help them align and ship and execute those ideas.
1:02:17
>> And I was I was uh saying to Andrew right before you jumped on the uh for me Figma was a social product in the COVID times because I would jump on I'd open my laptop my my son would would go to bed.
1:02:28
He was uh just like 6 months old or something like that.
1:02:30
I'd open up Figma and I'd see a couple other people on the team like in in the main like you know file that we had and I would just pop over their cursor and be like you know in the in the comments being like hey what's up I didn't realize you were up still. >> Yeah. Yeah.
1:02:45
>> And it it felt like a virtual office for the team at a time when there was like no there was not much social activity at all. >> Totally. Yeah.
1:02:51
I I think it's really important to make work fun and to you know again it comes back to lifting each other up.
1:02:56
We're all trying to kind of surface ideas and put things out there and it's a lot more fun when you get to do it with your team.
1:03:00
One of my favorite memories from the pandemic was actually this time when Slack went down.
1:03:04
Um so Slack went down as like the middle of it.
1:03:08
It >> doesn't go down that much, but you remember when it goes down.
1:03:10
>> You do remember when it goes down. We use it, too.
1:03:11
We're big fans of Slack, but um when it went down, um we found out that a bunch of people were actually recreating the Slack UI inside of Figma and then using our multiplayer functionality to chat on the canvas.
1:03:20
It was just a super cool moment. >> That's wild. >> Yeah, >> that's wild.
1:03:24
Do you think that adding multiplayer features after launch would have been if you play out like the counterfactual?
1:03:29
Would that have been much more technically challenging?
1:03:31
You think you think it's like there's something this special about from day one this is baked in?
1:03:39
>> Yeah, I think there's there's two sides to this problem.
1:03:40
So the first is just getting the base technology in place. That's one problem.
1:03:43
The other thing is actually rethinking all of the product features so that they are actually eventually consistent and you're not stepping on each other's toes and dealing with conflicts.
1:03:51
And so a big part of building, you know, collaborative multiplayer software is actually reasoning about how you design features so they compose elegantly when multiple people are doing things at the same time.
1:04:00
And that's really hard to bolt on later.
1:04:01
Yeah, >> the thing the thing that >> makes it so powerful in in in my own words is if you have uh no matter how talented an individual like designer, engineer, product person, founder is, no matter how much of a visionary they are, no matter how capable they are, the whatever idea they initially have for something will be better once it has like the input of a group of people.
1:04:22
And so the the the the prehistoric uh era when design tools were built for like designers and like no one else would even have the file necessarily.
1:04:30
It's just so wild to think back because I think like every every great feature I've ever made, every great ad I've ever made, every great website was always like this combination of a bunch of smart people coming together and all contributing.
1:04:44
And then Figma makes it so that it's as simple of like even if you're not in the same room, right?
1:04:48
Like I I think about how much progress would have been lost if you didn't have something like Figma during co where if you were used to as a team working and like all working on the same you know feature and being able to be there in person uh it just made it so seamless to recreate that and actually build great things. >> Yeah.
1:05:07
No, I couldn't agree more.
1:05:07
I I I think the other aspect of design that sometimes people mistake it for is they think it's just about building like a static mock or a single image.
1:05:14
And I think the reality is like the best design products, people sweat the details all the way to production.
1:05:18
So you're not just thinking about, you know, how is it going to look in a few key states.
1:05:22
You're thinking about how is that going to work?
1:05:23
What's the system behind the design, you know, and how are you going to make it performant and efficient and how are you going to learn from that and keep iterating?
1:05:29
And so it's a really broad space and super excited to be playing in it.
1:05:33
>> What was the leadup to config like?
1:05:33
you guys came out the gates with what four major new product areas it felt like and uh I remember Na uh gave me a little preview of what you guys were announcing and I was like really like four I imagine it was pretty stressful for you but you guys pulled it off. >> Yeah.
1:05:52
No, we the team pulled it off to their credit. It was incredible.
1:05:53
Yeah, we went from like four to eight products all in one config, which is really cool.
1:05:58
Um and it was even cooler because I was on rental leave for the first month before config.
1:06:01
I was just so stoked to come back from my my short little prince to leave and see that this team had just cranked everything out and and done such an incredible job. >> Yeah. Uh talk to me about AI.
1:06:08
Uh obviously there are AI enabled uh you know products but then I imagine that AI is starting to infuse both in the internal workflows and also the sub features within products that exist already.
1:06:23
And I'm I'm wondering how you think about organizational design, how you think about uh letting the existing team run with just adding on features and tools that leverage AI to setting up new teams and do you need a do you need a crack team that goes around and AI everything or is this just another tool in the tool chest that everyone can be pulling from regardless of where they sit in the org? >> Yeah.
1:06:48
Yeah, no, it's a it's a good question and we've been we've been kind of sweating that question ourselves, but I think um it really comes back to what we've been doing all along for us.
1:06:53
So, at Figma, like when we started the goal was to make designers more efficient and give them superpowers, if you will, so they can do, you know, more and, you know, bring the best ideas to life and then also to enable them to collaborate more seamlessly and effortlessly with their team and and make that whole process more accessible to their team as well.
1:07:09
Um, and I think AI is just this incredible tailwind and accelerant to all of that right now.
1:07:13
Um it's like not hard to imagine the ways in which you know designers are using AI in the context of Figma for example with Figma bake to not just like uh you know build a prototype but actually breathe life into that prototype with prototyping and ship it all the way to production.
1:07:24
Um at the same time um you know all of these technologies are making the entire product suite that we have much more accessible to the people around them.
1:07:33
And so you know people can come into Figma and they can prompt themselves um to get started but then they still have the full power of the Figma ecosystem.
1:07:40
So, you know, when when the prompting is no longer the most efficient way, they can just grab the mouse and, you know, grab that color wheel and find that perfect red color rather than trying to describe it. Yeah. The final touch.
1:07:47
So, yeah, it's super exciting. >> Yeah. Last question.
1:07:50
I think we have someone else coming on in a second.
1:07:51
Uh, talk about uh the the engineering culture.
1:07:56
Figma is so interesting because I think every I don't want to generalize too much, but it feels like everyone has some design chops or at least taste or or cares about design, but at the same time, you have those deep WebGL roots.
1:08:07
It feels like there's some pretty serious hardcore technologists in the organization. What's the blend?
1:08:11
What is that like when those two orgs come together?
1:08:15
Uh I imagine that you've spent a decade integrating those two disciplines.
1:08:19
But culturally, uh what does it take to really succeed at the company?
1:08:23
>> Yeah, I I think it takes like intellectual curiosity, right?
1:08:25
That's what we seek out in our hires.
1:08:26
Like we're trying to find people who are just as passionate as we are about making things better.
1:08:31
Um which really serves our customers, too, because that's exactly what we're trying to help them do.
1:08:35
Um, you know, I think that we have like these incredible designers who also know how to code and we have these incredible systems architects who have really really good product sense as well.
1:08:43
And I think it's this like kind of role blending that we've embraced as a culture and we're starting to see, you know, with AI breaking down some of the learning barriers between these functions, other companies embrace as well. >> Y >> last question.
1:08:53
Andrew Reed uh says that Evan Wallace had some crazy uh contributions to the codebase early on.
1:09:01
Any any any standout highlights in your mind?
1:09:03
Evan is just an incredibly gifted engineer.
1:09:06
And uh the thing I remember is actually even before I joined Figma, when I was working on my own little game engine, I was reading these articles online about how to do constructive solid geometry and and you know, all these mathematical things and I was reading these tutorials and then when I started working with Evan at Figma, he he's like I I went to his personal website and I realized the articles I was reading were written by him.
1:09:24
Like he's just he's he's a super gifted person.
1:09:27
It's really really an honor to have worked with him. >> That's fantastic. >> Congratulations.
1:09:30
Congratulations to everyone.
1:09:31
an incredible journey to date and just getting started.
1:09:34
>> Yeah, thank you so much.
1:09:35
>> Thanks so much for hopping on stream. Appreciate it. Congratulations. See you soon.
1:09:39
>> And we are ready for our next guest on this Figma stream.
1:09:41
TBPN is live from the New York Stock Exchange. Welcome to the stream. How you doing, >> Danny? Pleasure to meet you. Nice to meet you.
1:09:50
>> I've always heard great things.
1:09:50
It's such a pleasure to meet you in person.
1:09:53
Uh would you mind just doing a quick introduction for the folks who might not be familiar?
1:09:56
>> Yeah, so I'm Danny Rhyr.
1:09:56
I'm with index ventures >> and um we're a firm that's based in London, San Francisco and New York.
1:10:02
We are invest in early and growth stage and uh we invested in Figma.
1:10:08
We led the seed round in Figma.
1:10:13
>> So met met Dylan when he was 18 for the first time which is pretty amazing.
1:10:16
I'm I'm now going down you know melancholy hill as I'm nostalgia hill as I'm hearing this.
1:10:23
What what I I have to ask right away, what how did you react early on to to to their kind of launch timeline, right?
1:10:32
Like the thing that keeps coming up today and we talked with Andrew Reid about this earlier.
1:10:37
Personally, as an angel, if somebody tells me they're building a software company for other businesses and they say that it's going to we're going to launch in two years, I almost immediately think like, okay, this person probably needs to like update their thinking.
1:10:49
But and I think people generally use a Figma example of like this fat MVP and it can be a trap because you can work on something for a long time and have it not not really be that valuable.
1:11:00
But I I wonder what your immediate reaction was given that this was, you know, well before the launch. >> Yeah.
1:11:05
I mean, believe it or not, it's sort of in line with our contrarian approach.
1:11:10
Like we we're contrarian on a bunch of stuff.
1:11:12
We've been really, >> you know, bearish on crypto.
1:11:14
We didn't do any crypto investments.
1:11:15
So for us it was a feature, not a bug that it was going to take that long.
1:11:22
>> You've been contrarian about being loud too on Figma.
1:11:24
A lot of people I think they saw like you know index's ownership >> uh at at the IPO and and didn't you know you guys haven't been posting threads every single day.
1:11:33
That's part of the culture.
1:11:35
I mean you're bearish on crypto.
1:11:37
How do you react to Dylan's NFT profile picture? >> I think it's God.
1:11:43
He's got the pass for this.
1:11:43
He's got >> Doesn't mean that he can't be.
1:11:47
But but you know really at the time you know um >> all of the technology all the software was sort of like in that meta spirit that Facebook spirit of like throw it against a wall you know ship quickly doesn't matter if it's broken break fast
1:12:03
and break things build fast break things and this was so contrary it's like the the two guys were contrarian and they were committed to actually developing things for 2 years before we were going to have any sense as to whether it was going to be good or not. And it really
1:12:16
And it really had to compete against Sketch was the primary competitor and Sketch was damn good. >> Love the product. >> Exactly. Exactly.
1:12:25
>> Which is like the hard you know, even even you know, most investors if they're looking at a new investment in a category with a very well-loved product that has massive saturation.
1:12:33
I mean, I don't I think it would be hard to find a product designer in San Francisco prefigma that wasn't using Sketch.
1:12:40
>> Yeah, you're absolutely right.
1:12:40
Do you remember what the other comps were from that era of companies that had figured out how to do something utilitarian but then bolted on a multiplayer aspect?
1:12:49
We were kind of kicking around the obvious example of like Instagram.
1:12:54
There were a few other photo filtering apps but Instagram started with a social network out of the box kind of bootstrapped it in the background and wound up being very successful product obviously.
1:13:02
But were there other companies that were coming to mind at that time?
1:13:05
>> I mean so we're big game investors, right?
1:13:07
So first of all multiplayer was a term that we were very familiar with >> and then we were Dropbox investors. That makes sense.
1:13:14
So like the notion of sort of the product the consumerization of the enterprise starting small >> growing through you know gorilla tactics and just mainstream adoption within the organization we felt really comfortable with. >> Sure. Sure.
1:13:29
Is that is that broadly productled growth or is productled growth in your mind uh a broader term?
1:13:35
>> No that's it's it is PLG. Absolutely.
1:13:38
And um it was it it was clear back to the you're I totally agree with you.
1:13:41
The line share of folks were using Dropbox and Sketch >> and so for us the we knew what the problem was like the first time I met Dylan was at Flipboard when he was 18 and they had amazing designers at Flipboard and I just remember the confusion. Yeah. Beautiful product.
1:13:59
>> Beautiful like the and also I don't know if it was WebGL but the 3D animation of the page flipping. >> Fantastic.
1:14:05
And you can see that that comes through with like okay just the just the technical challenge of like how would I implement that?
1:14:10
I remember playing with it on the iPad and being like okay this is a different thing this is >> exactly right.
1:14:14
I mean they they launched it before the iPad was launched. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's right.
1:14:18
>> But the the versioning headaches that they were getting through like you know they had all these amazing designers.
1:14:24
One ended up leading design at Uber.
1:14:26
Another one and is one of the senior designers at Apple for for like eight years.
1:14:30
and the design problems that they would get into of like sending the wrong version, sending the wrong asset. Totally.
1:14:37
You know, through Dropbox, it was clear that you needed a better solution. >> Yeah.
1:14:42
Uh what are you seeing broadly in terms of artificial intelligence as a sustaining or disruptive innovation uh to companies that have established a market and then there's a whole bunch of companies that are coming in and saying like we're going to be the AI version of that.
1:14:55
It feels like in some ways you could say oh well that's just like the multiplayer version, but in some ways it's more of a sustaining innovation. What's your broad take?
1:15:01
>> I would say the latter. Sustaining innovation.
1:15:03
I mean, I'm super bullish about AI.
1:15:05
I I mean, sure, it's hard not to be, right?
1:15:07
Like, >> you probably have to qualify that like bullish on AI doesn't necessarily mean you're like upset about what's happening at, you know, the Foundation Model Labs or in terms of capex or Nvidia.
1:15:15
Like there's a million different places, but you know, our our our job is to see a trend and then to analyze a trend and then to go pretty deep. Okay. Yeah.
1:15:26
And we are very bullish on AI.
1:15:30
>> Well, it seems like every other time I see a billion dollar M&A headline, it's another index always ends up with the most. Thank you.
1:15:38
>> Um, the thing that strikes me about Figma that I think is still powerful to this day is the the the simultaneously like the complexity of the product and the simplicity of the product.
1:15:46
If you land if you get invited to Figma and you've never used the product before, you just get dropped in to the canvas. You're there.
1:15:53
you can see the other people and despite all that you can do with the product, it's still I just found it like somehow intuitive even for somebody >> uh and and I think that's yeah very very difficult. >> Yeah.
1:16:05
And and you know the the co-founder you know Dylan was brilliant enough to hire his co-founder the best computer scientist he had ever met who was you know his TA at Brown right like convinced him to stop doing a PhD and to code. >> Wow.
1:16:21
That guy had such an understanding of that. Yeah. Uh or still does.
1:16:24
Evan still has a such a clear understanding of how to create the lowest common denominator and make it inclusive with everyone while also because it's design and design is going to become central to everything have enough sophistication so that you can differentiate from anyone else. >> Yeah.
1:16:44
Um, >> no, it's really it's really amazing to me the magic of Figma and the thing that I I from the very first Figma that I was invited to uh and that that was obviously why that the growth was so insane early is it's like natural productled growth versus force productled growth. Yeah.
1:17:01
>> Was this abil you know as a user if you can if if the thing that you provide a customer or user is the ability to take the thing that's in their mind and make it real so they can see it.
1:17:09
That's like the most magic thing ever.
1:17:12
And the the other thing I would comp kind of this moment to is, you know, we we cover uh Alphabet and Google a lot and we talk about how Google's initial mission to like organize the world's information and, you know, make it useful.
1:17:25
I I forget exactly uh how they position it.
1:17:29
Um and how that's so aligned to Genai in the sense that a lot of what LM do today is just make organizing information for you and making it useful, right?
1:17:37
That's like the core of the value.
1:17:38
And it feels like Figma of this core of like taking a spark of an idea and making it into a thing is so aligned with generative AI because it's like oh you want to make a website like describe it.
1:17:47
You want to make an app describe it.
1:17:49
You want to change the details you want to change this color.
1:17:52
You want to you want to build like an entire you know uh app uh uh underneath the the website.
1:17:57
It's just all there and reducing that time from spark of an idea to like real product. >> That's right.
1:18:04
It's just and I think it it is a really important component at making sure that the human intervention is critical for differentiation, right?
1:18:14
Like you need that in order like the idea has to first manifest, but you can do that with AI tools, but then it has to have a human differentiation like a human intervention that makes it way better to use.
1:18:28
>> And this is the same this is the same way that making things in an organization work.
1:18:31
You might have the smartest person on a team have an amazing idea and get it get it here and then and then the intern might throw in hey by the way what if we did it like this and everybody's like oh that's a good idea and even with like super intelligence or whatever we're hurling towards.
1:18:45
It's like you know you can you might be able to create a V1 but it's it's this combination of ideas and experiences that makes it truly special.
1:18:53
>> Uh last question uh give me the update on index.
1:18:55
It's a huge fund growing.
1:18:58
What's the contrarian strategy?
1:18:58
We're hearing rumors, but we're going to see you out there soon. Public funds.
1:19:04
>> I mean, I guess our contrarian element has been not to grow enormously.
1:19:07
So, you know, we've had a billion dollar venture fund and $2 billion growth fund for a decade now and we haven't expanded our size.
1:19:17
So like the idea is that from our perspective, >> investing is a craft >> and >> if we get bigger, we might lose the focus and we're not going to be able to have the same relationship with the founders that we that we adore having.
1:19:32
>> So we just have to >> generate the return.
1:19:34
So that's what we're focused on like keeping it small and and hopefully I mean you know I have I have some amazing partners who >> you haven't met um >> we're we are we're seven investing partners and um yeah and what's cool is that you know like Chardul is behind Whiz for us >> and um we have Dream Games >> and we have Service Titan and it's a mentorship business. >> Oh yeah. >> Yeah.
1:20:03
That's that's that's that's what excites us is that the next generation >> you already >> are better are better than the current generation. >> It's great.
1:20:14
>> Well, thank you so much for coming. Fantastic.
1:20:15
We'd love to have you back on the show soon. Pleasure. >> Great.
1:20:18
I'll take the microphone and we will bring in our next guest, Jordy.
1:20:20
Do you have any updates from the timeline? What else is going on? We have >> Mimoon. >> Hello. Hello. >> Hello. Welcome to the streams. Thank you so much. I like that pin. That pin is fantastic.
1:20:32
>> We're gonna have you hold this one. Yes.
1:20:33
I'm so fired up to be here. It's so fun. >> Perfect timing.
1:20:35
Uh give us a little introduction uh on yourself and what you do. >> All right.
1:20:39
Well, I'm a partner at Kleiner Perkins, early stage venture capitalist.
1:20:42
Cliner Perkins, the firm has been around for 50 plus years >> in amazing companies like Google and Amazon and Netscape and Figma of course >> and uh yeah, we invest in early stage companies, but we also have a growth fund. >> Yes.
1:20:56
>> Uh that invests in some pretty cool later stage opportunities as well.
1:20:58
Uh, and what what is the the story of meeting Dylan and Figma?
1:21:02
When did that come together?
1:21:04
>> Yeah, I think I met >> You guys did the B. >> We did the B. Yeah. And that was in 2017. Yeah.
1:21:09
>> I met >> Dylan probably in 2017, early in 17.
1:21:13
>> Uh, I was on a board with John Lily who led the series A. >> Oh, yeah.
1:21:16
We read his blog post today.
1:21:18
>> And John uh and I were involved with a company that didn't really work out. >> Okay.
1:21:22
>> And he he he told me at the time, "Hey, this thing may not work out. So, >> I owe you one.
1:21:29
I'm going to introduce you to this guy. >> Okay. >> Dylan. >> Yeah.
1:21:32
>> And you're going to love him.
1:21:32
And by the way, like your background in Box and Yammer and Slack really >> could help. >> Yeah.
1:21:39
>> And so spend time together, get to know each other, which we did over a bunch of month months.
1:21:43
And uh we really hit it off and uh later that year, Dylan decided to raise a series B.
1:21:48
And uh this is around the time when the the product had just come out of beta >> and you could you'd hear people talking about Figma and you know the company had been around for 5 years so this was a long windup. >> Yep. Totally.
1:22:02
And it was coming out of beta, just started to monetize, a few customers, and you'd walk around actually South Park where we were based, and you see people in coffee shops, the designer type >> using Figma, just like >> three, four, five years prior, you'd see Slack on people's screens and so >> like, okay, there's something going on.
1:22:22
And then when I saw my my friend Josh Williams, who's a designer, incredible designer, it's like, oh, Josh is using it.
1:22:27
That means that the designer community has really latched on to Figma. Yeah.
1:22:32
>> And so took a few tidbits, data points, and uh and then I remember asking Dylan like, "Show me this one chart.
1:22:37
All I need to see is this one chart. >> It's called the L28." >> Yeah.
1:22:42
>> It's the the usage for the whole user base over a 28 day period of time. It's a histogram.
1:22:47
It's kind of nerdy, but >> Dylan, just go go look at this data and tell me what it looks like.
1:22:51
So he sent it over and it had this little little smile and which effectively shows that at day 14, 15, 16 out of 28 days, many of the users were using it for like every day of the work week, which meant that effectively if you're a designer, you were using Figma to get your work done. >> Yeah.
1:23:12
>> And there's just no question about it.
1:23:13
By the way, I'm a non-designer and I I kind of came online in the work in the work world startup startup game in 2017 and I was very quickly a DAU.
1:23:21
Like I use it all the time as a as somebody that didn't consider myself a designer.
1:23:25
I was just invited to Figma and I was like wait this is a pretty good way to just do a lot of different types of work whether you're making a deck or marketing assets or website or any anything.
1:23:35
So >> totally and and that's you saw that you know I think the the first board deck I think I ever got was actually in Figma.
1:23:43
So, and Figma slides wasn't a product that that we just launched actually. Yeah.
1:23:47
So, >> uh so yeah, you saw this like in incredible depth of engagement with the product >> that uh I I'd seen with products like Slack and obviously like Slack we all use and >> uh we love some hate but mostly love, right?
1:24:01
And uh and you saw that >> how people feel about it. They still use it.
1:24:05
So yeah, L L28 that's effectively like a churn uh analysis but short-term >> it's usage usage over the first 28 days because you should see some usage over a 28 day period.
1:24:14
It's actually just a take any user like the the whole user base like let's say a thousand users. >> Okay.
1:24:21
So a random slice they could have been installed months ago. Yeah.
1:24:22
But you want to see how they use it.
1:24:25
>> Every person who who signed up, let's say a thousand users, >> and did they use it for that once a month, twice a month, three times a month or 28 times a 28 days out of the month. Okay, got it.
1:24:35
>> So then you saw this tick up like the smile curve.
1:24:38
It's like and only consumer companies typically look at that.
1:24:40
So to see that sort of behavior out of a >> enterp enterprise software product was incredible. >> Yeah.
1:24:48
Uh one of the analyses I saw was rule of 40.
1:24:50
People were talking about how Figma's in a great position right now.
1:24:53
uh great margins but also great growth rate.
1:24:56
Add that together, that's the rule of 40.
1:24:58
Uh when did the rule of 40 come into your world?
1:25:00
What did it factor into the series B or was it something you started tracking later? Uh what can you tell me?
1:25:06
>> Just the cafe analysis go >> real uh later actually funny enough uh I think about 10 years ago I came up with this thing called a quick ratio. Okay.
1:25:17
>> Which was more interesting to me because for early stage companies it showed >> uh a quick ratio is effectively in a given month how much how many users did you add? >> Yep.
1:25:27
>> And how many users did you churn? >> Okay.
1:25:29
>> So let's say you added 400 users and you churned 100 your quick ratio is four. >> Yeah.
1:25:34
>> And that was actually like a good number. >> Sure.
1:25:36
>> But if you're adding 200 and losing 150, >> not good. Yep. >> Right. That's a leaky bucket. >> It's a leaky bucket.
1:25:41
So for an early stage person the the quick ratio was just way better than looking at growth rate and then looking at the >> margins which could be all over the place based on what they did that month or that quarter. Makes sense.
1:25:54
>> One question I have I'm curious uh how you see it.
1:25:56
So it was index greylock koa a6z were were the leads.
1:26:00
If this company if figma had been started in 2020 do you think there would have been one or two funds just like going back and forth?
1:26:09
Was it was it was it um you know I feel like today you'll see these like fast fast fast follow rounds seems to be a real focus for a lot of fun >> and and was that something you think that like Dylan was just pushing for it wanted a a diverse board or or was it more um just the state of venture at that time?
1:26:27
that time? I think Dylan is just very nuanced and detail- oriented and very methodical and every round he had in his mind who was the investor the right investor for me at this point in time >> which is how I think he even sought out
1:26:45
this our relationship where uh John Lily and um Dylan was just telling me downstairs you know you know we sought you out for that series B it was like a you know a beline yeah >> and I think Dylan had that same sentiment towards the series C with Andrew Reed who was just on, right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah.
1:27:01
>> And then even the round thereafter.
1:27:01
So he was always in his mind had is this is the the the person the firm that I really want to work with based on their skill set, their capabilities and he went after it and he got it. >> Yeah. >> Every single time. >> Great.
1:27:18
Uh how do you think the board evolved?
1:27:20
It seems like there's a lot of uh different investors, different firms joining.
1:27:24
How do you think the board will evolve going forward?
1:27:25
And it already has evolved.
1:27:27
Can you talk to some of the additions and what the rationale was behind those? >> Yeah.
1:27:31
So, we in just in the last month, we've we've added three incredible people. Bill McDermad. OG, right? Like OG.
1:27:38
You have you have to have Bill on the show if you haven't. >> Oh, no. We'd love to hear. >> Oh my god. Bill is the man.
1:27:41
I mean, obviously he runs Service Now. Before that, he ran SAP.
1:27:45
Uh, so he he's just the the CEO of all like the goat in terms of like running an enterprise software business. Yep.
1:27:54
>> U and uh we added Mike Kger, founder of Instagram. Come on guys.
1:27:59
>> And and a very interesting people wouldn't think about it focused. >> Yeah. Anthropic too.
1:28:04
>> Anthropic and now chief product officer at Enthropic.
1:28:06
He was downstairs and uh and then we added Louis Vanon.
1:28:09
Luis Vanon I think is from Dualingo >> and he's a founder a CEO went early in on AI >> and u you know running a public company.
1:28:20
Y >> uh also a KP company.
1:28:21
So just like three folks who really bring different skill sets but are just like A+ top-notch and I think that's sort of how Dylan has really built the company from you know setting the tone the culture >> amongst the team his executive team the board >> uh and it's you know you couldn't be more proud of what's been built there. >> It's fantastic.
1:28:42
When did uh last question uh then we'll I'm sure you'll have a busy evening.
1:28:46
One uh when did the kind of Gen AI opportunity click with you and Figma? Was it was it instantly?
1:28:53
Was there a specific moment that you realize what an opportunity Figma would have in terms of if you're already helping people turn ideas into real things and products?
1:29:03
>> Genai has an obvious, you know, immediate application there. >> Yeah.
1:29:06
I think there's the uh more the features that allow you to do things with AI inside of the the canvas of Figma. Yeah.
1:29:12
And then there's the what do you what can you do from from prompting to code to design and I think there's both elements of AI to integrate into the Figma product which we we've done but I think uh Dylan just being such a so early on technology but also timing it really right as well. Yeah.
1:29:31
>> Uh was early but you know more recently as you know we've launched four products and one product is very heavy on AI the Figma make >> which goes from prompt to code. Yep.
1:29:39
So, uh, really just timing matters and I think, you know, Dylan and the team are all over it and you just had Chris on and >> and you have millions and millions of DA weekly active users that are ready saying, "Please give us more. >> We're ready." So, amazing. Well, thank you so much. Fantastic. Back on sometime soon. >> Fantastic.
1:30:02
And I think we're going to hop on with Dylan right now. Welcome to the stream. >> Here we go.
1:30:08
>> Looking incredibly sharp. >> Thank you so much. Fantastic looking suit. Great.
1:30:12
>> Uh, what do you have there? You have a gallon.
1:30:13
We're going to ask you to hold this.
1:30:15
>> You know, I mean, he's got >> How many times did you ring a bell today?
1:30:18
>> Because you rang the opening bell.
1:30:18
Walk me through your day.
1:30:19
What did you actually do today?
1:30:21
Have you gotten any sleep or your day started? Okay. I don't know. I don't know. Is that how bad I look? >> No, no, no.
1:30:27
I just know the schedule is is brutal.
1:30:31
>> Intense schedule, but it was a great day and um the team >> was incredible.
1:30:34
And yeah, the uh in terms of the gavvel, I mean, I just feel like you're holding this thing, you know, you can do anything. >> You can do anything. So powerful. It's a powerful gavvel.
1:30:45
I feel like it's time to make a bunch of product decisions. >> Yeah.
1:30:48
>> Not sure on what yet, but like, you know, just >> Well, you also shipped a bunch of product updates today, too, right?
1:30:54
What were the highlights?
1:30:57
>> I mean, a lot of highlights, but the things that I was super excited about, one was offset vector >> because we've been getting requests from that uh from the start of Figma. >> Yeah.
1:31:05
And then also for dev modem MCP we made a bunch of improvements and you know it's interesting with dev mode MCP.
1:31:11
I mean this is one where uh the team was like yeah I think it's time to release it and you know we kind of did the walkthrough.
1:31:18
>> This is for MCP servers to AI agents essentially. >> Yeah.
1:31:20
Basically it lets you translate uh you know designs to code. Yep.
1:31:23
>> And pull that in via MCP. Yep.
1:31:25
>> And uh kind of an extension of our dev mode functionality >> and I was nervous uh because I just felt like we have so much to build out still and we do. >> Yeah. Yeah.
1:31:33
But it's been great to see the reception.
1:31:35
Yeah, the reception has been really positive.
1:31:37
And then today we made some more improvements to it.
1:31:38
But this is just the start.
1:31:40
There's a lot more coming on dev mode.
1:31:42
>> Yeah, we were talking.
1:31:43
>> We were talking about this earlier uh kind of making the argument.
1:31:45
I think we both agreed that uh Figma fits the traditional definition of like a platform that was design was I think defined by Microsoft.
1:31:52
Uh this idea that the value that's created on top of the product is greater than the product the value that the product captures.
1:31:58
Um but how do you think that's going to change or what is the shape of it right now?
1:32:03
Now, I know that there are we we have friends who run agencies that probably wouldn't exist if Figma did not exist.
1:32:09
I'm sure they would find a way, but there like they have built a whole company and business around it.
1:32:12
Uh, and they're obviously incredibly synergistic with you.
1:32:16
>> Every single every single thing that I've done in my career. >> Yeah.
1:32:18
Arguably Jord's career is is >> like I don't think I've ever closed like even Figma.
1:32:23
I always love using it in the browser because it's just as good.
1:32:25
I don't think I've ever closed the tab open.
1:32:28
Figma has just been like, you know, 99. 9% like >> Yeah.
1:32:31
It's your operating system.
1:32:31
Yeah, it's your operating system.
1:32:33
>> Yeah, I love love love hearing that obviously.
1:32:35
Uh but also I mean it's it's it's folks like you who are in the product so much every day >> that give us the best feedback and we learn from it.
1:32:44
And the thing about designers is they are so thoughtful with their feedback. >> Yeah.
1:32:50
>> And they really helped steer uh us and really orient us towards the right things to build.
1:32:55
And then you know of course you got to also take some bets where everyone's saying one thing and you're going to do another thing.
1:32:59
But uh or or things that you know people aren't thinking about yet and so we try to do a mix. >> Yeah.
1:33:06
>> Uh but it's the feedback from designers I think is consistently just like probably some of the best feedback in the world.
1:33:11
>> I saw big it was crazy.
1:33:11
Standing room only and standing ovations. It was like Woodstock. It was crazy.
1:33:15
Um I want to talk about organizational design in the age of AI.
1:33:20
Um how is the org structure changing if any at all?
1:33:24
Um, I imagine that you have your own team of designers and then developers and front end and backend down to hardcore WebGL folks, right?
1:33:33
And there's some sort of, you know, uh, uh, different tiers and different groups and product groups, but how does AI fit in? How does it change it?
1:33:42
Obviously with Figma make it's kind of its own product team, but then I imagine that there are folks using AI all over the organization.
1:33:47
So, how do you think about AI playing a role either as a vertical product focus or horizontal slice or support teams?
1:33:53
Like how are you tussling with that?
1:33:57
>> I think it's got to be kind of uh many things at once.
1:33:59
So uh one dynamic that's always interesting is uh you have to motivate research by having uh you know great product applications but also you know if you don't have the research done sometimes people go ah I can't build the product application part yet >> and I think you just have to break that chicken and egg. >> Sure.
1:34:19
>> Sure. you have to um you know motivate by showing here's what's possible and then you have to also uh try to break through and find new ways to do research uh so that you're able to inspire people on the product side and it's just a virtuous loop if you can get it right
1:34:36
but the um the thing I'd say more broadly on organizations beyond even just Figma >> is you know the core thesis of Figma is like over the last decade we've had this point of view that as the inputs to software change >> uh as more people are creating software
1:34:53
as there's just an exponentially more amount of software in the world then design craft point of view that's the differentiator and I think that there's a really interesting dynamic that we're observing you know is like two decades ago uh design was lipstick on a pig you
1:35:11
know make it pretty and maybe a decade ago the conversation shifted to okay design's how it works you got to really think about design through a whole process and designers were like yeah We've always been saying this, but finally everyone else kind of got it. And then now I think it's literally it's
1:35:22
And then now I think it's literally it's how you win or lose. >> Mhm. >> Yeah.
1:35:26
>> And I think there's um if you look at some of the companies that are doing the best, >> they uh you know, some many of which have been on your show.
1:35:34
>> I familiar it is my number one complaint between many of the modern products.
1:35:37
I wind up making a making a decision not on the foundational technology but instead on the user experience UI which feels crazy in the age of benchmarks and like something that's so quantifiable and yet I find myself making decisions based on the unquantifiable.
1:35:56
>> John John Lily had a had a post earlier uh congratulating uh you and the team.
1:36:01
Uh he said in a 2003 interview about the iPod Steve Jobs famously said design is not just what it looks like and feels like design is how it works.
1:36:07
M >> he said that you just built like around this like core idea from from >> absolutely but I think it's evolving.
1:36:13
I think it's now how you win. >> Yeah.
1:36:16
>> And the companies that are understanding that I think are just we're seeing them outperform and the ones that are sort of like catching up uh they're investing a lot in design and not just in the design team and how to get everyone in the organization to be part of the design process.
1:36:34
And I think this is really interesting for the designers role because designers are the ones who are then going to have to lead the charge. >> Yeah.
1:36:41
>> That's going to be a lot of power >> and we're going to start seeing so many more designer CEOs. Yeah.
1:36:46
>> So many more designoriented folks who are, you know, leading and shaping directions of the future of software and of companies more broadly because every company's becoming a software company now. >> Yeah.
1:36:59
>> And I just think that um uh it's it's going to be quite a shift.
1:37:01
I I suspect we're already seeing this a little bit, but you know, maybe not at the level of magnitude of, you know, Zach throwing >> these offers at uh researchers, >> but like but like I think there's a parallel at a different scale. >> Yeah. >> Uh on design.
1:37:17
I think that the design talent wars are heating up. >> Yep.
1:37:21
>> And people are realizing that they have to get ahead. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.
1:37:24
It really I mean the the like clearest example here is despite how far Gen AI has come and how many new capabilities there are incredible designers are more in demand than ever.
1:37:35
It's like you just get hit up all the time and I think there's like few people in my rolodex that I'm like these people are truly incredible but like good luck >> recruiting them because like they have 50 other offers and and infinite optionality. >> Yeah.
1:37:48
Talk to me about research.
1:37:48
>> Yeah. Talk to me about research. you mentioned doing research in the context of the of of Figma and I'm interested to know >> and this dates back to Evans Evans work before >> I was thinking about the WebGL example I was thinking about you know watching
1:38:01
GPT3 come out GPT4 and kind of understanding capabilities research like walk me through the understanding of like how do you think about design translating to tokens and then AIM like how do you even test all these new functionalities like you can operate on pixels diffusion models or tokens and HTML. There's so many different angles
1:38:20
There's so many different angles like what does research actually look like in the Figma context? >> Yeah.
1:38:24
>> Yeah. Um without sharing too much uh I I think one of the high level framing might be >> you know diffusion models uh are excellent >> uh in just like if you look at sort of uh some of the things that we've seen with diffusion the results over time I
1:38:40
mean >> it it's really felt like more of an exponential um >> obviously with LM's whether it be language or uh toy problems and code and math >> uh I that feels like an exponential Yeah, >> I think that uh neither is quite the approach for design just yet. I mean,
1:38:58
I mean, obviously with LMS, >> sure, >> you know, we use uh models to generate uh make outputs in make. >> Yeah.
1:39:06
>> And Figma make we're super excited about and I think it's the ideal case because you go from zero to one. >> Yep.
1:39:12
>> But we are still in a world where uh there are constraints and >> to actually get to the point where you're differentiating the output where you're adding that craft that point of view. >> Yep.
1:39:22
uh you know the financial models don't get you there. >> Yep.
1:39:26
>> And even if they were to be able to increase quality of visual output, I I think it actually only makes design more powerful.
1:39:34
>> Y >> uh because if you had you know five different designers in this room who are experts of their craft and they're all looking at uh you know some wonderfully uh generated design that was actually very good which is not maybe where we're at now. >> Yeah.
1:39:49
They probably have five different points of view and if that's how you're going to stand out is your design craft, your brand, your marketing. >> Yeah.
1:39:57
>> Um I think it requires intentionality and systems thinking not just in the design and software context but even beyond cultural uh business constraints and so >> you know we have in the front of the New York Stock Exchange today the sign design is everyone's business. >> Yep. >> It's so true. >> Design went public.
1:40:13
It also does seem particularly like uh reinforcement learning resistant because there's no like taste benchmarkeristic. It's nondeterministic. Yeah.
1:40:21
>> How did you think about uh adding to your board uh heading into the IPO and beyond?
1:40:26
Every single uh investor uh that that led various rounds from from Andrew to to Danny to Mimoon talked about your thoughtfulness around choosing the right partners at each stage.
1:40:36
And I'm and and I know you added Mike Kger and and Bill and I'd love to to >> Louise too.
1:40:45
>> And yeah, we're super fortunate to have just the most incredible board.
1:40:47
We also have two other independents.
1:40:49
Lynn, she's the former CMO of Salesforce and on some other incredible boards, too.
1:40:54
Uh Kelly, uh Kelly was the former CFO at Cisco. >> Oh, wow.
1:41:00
>> And uh they are are just powerhouses. They're amazing.
1:41:03
Uh and yeah, I'm just my mindset whether it be on the VC side, uh independent side, uh although I think as of right now, everyone's now independent.
1:41:12
Um technically as a few hours ago, >> yeah, a few hours ago with the with our Gavl, >> um changed everything.
1:41:19
>> But uh yeah, I think that you're looking for folks that you can learn from. >> Yeah.
1:41:23
folks that you love spending time with >> because the perfect board relationship is one where you know you're going to be calling them up with questions and you're going to really enjoy spending the time and working through it with them. >> Yeah.
1:41:36
>> I don't think they have to be folks you don't have to find board members who are universally great at everything. That's a high ask. >> Yeah.
1:41:43
>> But when you can find people that spike in certain areas uh and then you know what to call them for that is awesome.
1:41:50
And so I think we have a very great group on the board, also in our exec team where we just on all these different levels of the company have folks that really spike in different areas and then coming together they uh really have they can really help everyone in the group get to the right decision. >> Yeah.
1:42:11
>> Do you think your team pushed NY to the limit?
1:42:13
You can't walk anywhere in the building without seeing like either the most iconic merch on the back of somebody down on the trading floor or, you know, this like meticulously designed sign pointing you to like a storage closet or something like that.
1:42:27
>> You know, I I uh I had some early previews, but it's nothing like walking around for real.
1:42:31
I mean, this was incredible to >> probably the best this place has ever looked.
1:42:35
>> I I haven't been here before.
1:42:35
uh you know first time so I can't comment on that but I thought today looked exceptional and they were great great to work with. It >> was great. >> Yeah.
1:42:46
>> Uh talk about the evolution of the company culture over just the entire journey.
1:42:50
I mean, I have to imagine that like just the vibe changed from being, you know, pre uh pre-release for four years and then and then growing on this kind of steady trajectory where it was obviously tier one after tier one coming in, but never felt like super overhyped and never saw you on like the deified podcast circuit, if you know what I'm talking about.
1:43:16
Um, >> we're doing that right now. DeFi.
1:43:18
Yeah, this is >> well you and Evan both both kept you know a fair a lower profile than other companies with your financial and everything performance and growth and >> so where do you see the company culture going uh from here on out?
1:43:32
Is anything changing or do you think there's an evolution or shift?
1:43:37
>> Yeah, I mean I think you look at the folks that come to Figma.
1:43:39
Yeah, >> we sort of shine this bat signal in the sky of uh through our product and the folks that are want to come work at Figma, a lot of them are people that use Figma. >> Yeah, of course.
1:43:50
>> It's a very creative team.
1:43:50
Uh we're very oriented towards craft.
1:43:55
>> Uh we I think as a group our very first principles oriented.
1:43:59
We're in the weeds, but we can talk about strategy.
1:44:01
People need to be able to go across all those different levels.
1:44:04
And I think very growth mindset, very humble, very kind, and uh I I just think we're builders. >> Yeah.
1:44:13
>> And I uh yeah, I would imagine that in the future that will all be the same.
1:44:17
Um I I don't see why that would change.
1:44:21
The things that, you know, I think about a lot right now are just clarity.
1:44:26
lot right now are just clarity. I think that um in order to this is true for I think a lot of organizations just the more clarity you can create uh for your team both top down uh but also noticing and creating processes for stuff to bubble up from everyone in the
1:44:44
organization and then have it be in the middle and quickly have a great cycle time where you're able to figure out okay what is the right decision here and progress >> that's what will make it so that you're able to adapt rapid rap in an era where everyone has to adapt rapidly right now. Things are changing that fast.
1:45:01
Things are changing that fast. >> Yeah.
1:45:03
>> Uh how did the the product demo go the other day with with >> the investment bankers?
1:45:08
Are they are they converts uh converts now?
1:45:11
>> You know, I did have one uh investor come up to me in the road show and say that they wanted to be a designer now. >> Wow.
1:45:18
>> So, I don't know if they actually quit their job and, you know, uh started. It's never too late.
1:45:24
>> That's what I told them. It's never too late. I was like, "You can be. It's okay." >> Yeah. >> Yeah.
1:45:28
For me, >> we didn't have time to go deep on it, but like I was excited to hear that.
1:45:32
>> I had never taken a design class.
1:45:32
I'd never uh considered myself a designer. I knew I was creative.
1:45:36
And I did have this moment like in 2021.
1:45:39
And I was like, "Wait, am I a designer? I like use Figma a lot.
1:45:45
I make a lot of designs."
1:45:45
And I it was this like realization that it was like the reason you know a lot of like what what um all the people involved here talking about today is like everybody's everybody can be a designer, everybody can create things, make things uh and it was true from the very first moment that I use the product.
1:46:01
Um and just balancing that you talked about having team members that have that range to be able to talk about strategy and then get in the weeds and Figma the product.
1:46:11
What makes it so incredible is the range where you get invited to a file, you just land in it, you're there, you can see your buddies there in the same file uh all all together with your cursors.
1:46:21
Uh but then as you understand the product more, there's no I don't think I certainly haven't hit the limit of what the product's capable and I don't know that maybe anyone has.
1:46:29
So >> yeah, I mean I think it's it's there's this tension always of you got to make things both approachable uh and you know you also have to cater to the most power user functionality and for folks that are real power users of the product how do you make sure that um you do both and I think that um that's always a balance we're trying to strike.
1:46:52
One thing that helps though is pulling out new areas and use cases um into their own products.
1:46:58
That lets them breathe, but it also makes it Figma design focused on product design.
1:47:04
>> So, for example, Fig Jam was the first one we did it for and we're like had noticed for a long time.
1:47:07
Okay, people were doing brainstorming, whiteboarding.
1:47:11
>> I would make the jankiest whiteboard diagrams and like I would pre-esign graphics and then I would like make them look nice and then you had to like copy and paste them all in this like weird way.
1:47:20
And then you guys made Fig Jam. I was like, "Okay, cool.
1:47:21
That's >> I was like making this myself in the product for years.
1:47:25
>> We saw that with many people and then uh by taking it and bringing it to his own space.
1:47:31
The other thing that we thought about was during pandemic times especially people were treating Figma design like a space to hang out in.
1:47:38
>> This is what I told Chris people watching the stream six different people.
1:47:41
I told this to I told this to Chris.
1:47:44
I Figma during the pandemic era was like a virtual office where I would open >> I'd open my computer after my my son would go to bed. It'd be late at night. I'd pop it open. Figma would be open.
1:47:55
I'd see Brandon >> in there.
1:47:57
I'd see his little cursor.
1:47:57
I'd go over, put a comment. Hey, what's up? How you doing? I would mess with him.
1:48:02
I'd change the button colors on him.
1:48:02
I'd move stuff around, you know, but it was just like it felt like a virtual office.
1:48:07
I ultimately didn't adopt any other virtual office tools because I was like, well, I kind of I think at one point we even designed like an office in Figma that everybody would jump in.
1:48:17
>> You could move your character around a little bit. >> Exactly.
1:48:20
>> I mean, that was part of the insight for how we differentiated Fig Jam.
1:48:24
>> You know, I told the team, you know, maybe a month before launch, hey, >> like our differentiator for Fig Jam is going to be fun. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.
1:48:30
And I remember having a board call and I told, you know, the team this and everyone looks at me like, "Oh man, you've been sheltering in place way too much, buddy." >> Yeah.
1:48:38
>> Because that was I mean, there was a bunch of companies that were dedicated to whiteboarding and I don't even I haven't heard about them in a while.
1:48:42
But >> uh it wasn't like a category you just waltz into, you know?
1:48:48
>> Well, and and to team's credit, I mean, I said this and at first there was skepticism and then people were like, "Okay, let's do it."
1:48:53
We did a one-day design sprint camp with like, I don't know, 30 ideas or something like that.
1:48:57
I think four or five of them shipped uh including many of the features that are like the hallmark features of Fig Jam uh and stuff that's really gone very broad and like cursor chat for example >> where we see that pattern replicated in other surfaces now and that all came out of one day.
1:49:15
>> So it's like you when you got this amazing creative team >> making it so that you're able to unblock them and just let them go and if you just point them in a direction uh it can be incredible what you find.
1:49:26
Yeah, we have to let you go.
1:49:28
I want to thank you for having me.
1:49:30
I want to talk about uh everything from quantum computing to Dyson spheres, but that will be for the next one.
1:49:36
We would love for you to hit the gong with this mallet if you would do us the honor. >> I don't know.
1:49:40
We might want to use the uh we might want to use the regular mallet.
1:49:43
I want to I want to keep the the precious gong safe.
1:49:47
>> There's I guess we'll use this for the really serious stuff.
1:49:50
>> Yeah, >> use that one.
1:49:50
There's a mallet right there. >> Okay. Oh, there we go. >> There we go. >> Iconic moment. >> All right.
1:49:55
Have a good night, everybody.
1:49:57
And thank you for being here. Thank you for having me. So great to be here.
1:50:03
>> You're a legend, guys. >> Congratulations. You guys rock. >> Incredible leader.
1:50:09
>> Uh have a great rest of your day. You guys >> are taping. >> Uh we are taping. We are live. >> We're still taping. We're still live. Great time there.
1:50:20
>> But we'll we'll talk to you more after the stream. >> Thank you. >> You're the man. >> Congratulations. It's fantastic.
1:50:27
>> And we will bring in our next guest. >> Who we got? >> Who do we have?
1:50:30
>> I think we have Lynn from Nicy.
1:50:33
>> Do we have our next guest available? Perfect. Thank you. We will bring them here. >> Here she comes.
1:50:37
>> Is the market still open? I don't know.
1:50:39
Three >> another 40 minutes or so. >> Okay.
1:50:41
I'm usually on on uh West Coast time. Hi, welcome. Nice to meet you. >> Welcome.
1:50:47
>> You are live on the air.
1:50:49
>> So uh so great to be here.
1:50:49
The day we picked the right one.
1:50:52
I haven't been to the New York.
1:50:54
My mom knew that I was coming to the New York Stock Exchange and sent me a uh picture of me here uh when I was 10 years old and I got a uh and I got a booklet, a pamphlet and then I came in college once for kind of a entrepreneur networking event.
1:51:07
Haven't been back since, but I picked the right day. It's been fantastic.
1:51:11
>> It's been a great day here.
1:51:12
>> Uh can you introduce yourself really quickly?
1:51:14
>> Introduce yourself and then there's so much we want to talk about. >> I'm Lin Martin.
1:51:16
I'm president of the New York Stock Exchange. There you go.
1:51:19
>> It's a great honor, privilege and I'm thrilled to be on this podcast. I listen to you guys. >> Thank you. Thank you.
1:51:24
This is a big moment for us.
1:51:26
I mean, we just started a couple months ago.
1:51:27
It's been This has definitely been on like the vision board of like one day and now we're here.
1:51:30
So, thank you so much for hosting us. >> Totally surreal.
1:51:33
Uh, first question I have to ask because it's uh it feels like Figma pushed the limits in terms of making this space like feel like the Figma brand.
1:51:43
Did they give you any trouble in around the around the details of of design? >> No.
1:51:48
I love a good takeover and >> you know this space is really to celebrate >> capital markets and to celebrate our issuers and today with the full brand takeover by Figma. >> It's been amazing. >> That's fantastic.
1:52:02
Walk us through what else has gone this year.
1:52:04
Uh we've been we've been talking about this dynamic that people were kind of like is the IPO window open and then all of a sudden we'd looked around and it was like oh it's wide open.
1:52:11
There's been a ton of exciting news.
1:52:12
Uh but what have been the standout moments this year in your world?
1:52:16
Yeah, I mean the market very much is now open.
1:52:19
I don't think anyone is debating that after today. >> I agree.
1:52:25
>> Um, you know, we've had a lot of great companies come to market on the tech side.
1:52:28
We've had just in the last couple of weeks, we had Accelerant.
1:52:31
We had Ambic Micro go yesterday.
1:52:35
>> Um, obviously Figma today we had Circle >> couple months ago.
1:52:38
That was another great one. Neielson IQ last week.
1:52:39
McGra Hill, Hinge Health, >> Hinge Health. >> Um, Mountain.
1:52:44
So there's been quite a a effect of effect deals and they've done well. They've done well.
1:52:49
They've helped >> broadly have done very well this year. >> Yeah.
1:52:54
And when I'm with institutional investors, the thing that I keep hearing from them, these are, you know, the big long only funds is we want more issues to come to market.
1:53:04
We want to add to our portfolio.
1:53:06
When's the market going to open?
1:53:08
When's the market going to open?
1:53:10
So there's a lot of excitement, euphoria to actually get these companies out and a lot of demand which I think is great. >> Yeah.
1:53:17
What what are the key goals, the key value props, the key like action items that you bring to bear uh in your day-to-day in your in your role?
1:53:27
>> You know, one of my big focuses, probably my primary focus is to >> scoot. All right. All right.
1:53:34
>> We're getting >> we're co we're cozy in this in this studio.
1:53:37
um is really to ensure that our capital markets remain the envy of the world.
1:53:43
For me, it's about price certainty. Okay.
1:53:45
>> And efficiency of risk management.
1:53:46
>> How do you increase those?
1:53:48
>> Uh have to have good technology.
1:53:48
Now, I'm a technologist by trade, which >> I was going to ask how how what the path is to becoming the president of the New York Stock Exchange.
1:53:56
>> Of course, in this day and age, you start as a coder.
1:53:59
>> That's where I started. No way. That's amazing.
1:54:00
What where did you write code first?
1:54:03
I was at IBM part of their global services consulting practice and my clients were financial institutions. >> That makes sense. >> Incredible.
1:54:11
>> What uh what programming language did you write in back then?
1:54:14
>> You know, you're asking me to date myself.
1:54:16
>> We don't need to do that.
1:54:17
>> I'm going to, you know, I I'll say C. >> Okay.
1:54:20
>> C was the main one that I used. >> C++ a little bit. >> Yeah.
1:54:25
>> But, you know, I'm not going to go further back with the other stuff.
1:54:27
I >> can Can you walk us through like a day in the life of a CEO going public?
1:54:31
I didn't want to uh get pul it out of Dylan, but it's like ringing and then the just how calm and collected Dylan wasn't just so focused on product team culture. >> Totally >> vision.
1:54:46
>> But isn't that Dylan through and through he doesn't have to like put on He doesn't have to play a character on a day like today. It's just another day. >> Totally.
1:54:52
Um but yes, what walk me through the day in uh a day in the life of a CEO taking a company public at the New York Stock Exchange.
1:54:58
Well, you probably have gone through about a 10day period where you've been on the road and you're probably a little tired.
1:55:05
>> Does that mean literally on the When people say road show, does that just mean like one big conference room where every where everyone comes to you or are you literally flying around to different long mix some of the big longies?
1:55:13
You will go see them in person.
1:55:16
Um you know Boston based um >> like a state street or something or something the Welling Fidelity probably go see Tro you know you're going to see some of the the big names the ones that are generally the top holders of equities.
1:55:31
You're going to probably also go see Vanguard and Black Rockck and all those folks >> and some of those are in Manhattan so it might be a stop here but you're going around and you really are on the road.
1:55:40
You're moving around on the road. You are on the road. So 10 days of that. Yeah.
1:55:44
>> Then the big day comes.
1:55:45
>> This is calendar days.
1:55:45
I'm going not not business days.
1:55:48
So it's more like five or six. Yeah. Week and a half.
1:55:51
>> Um and then by the way, you've already done testing the water.
1:55:54
So you've already met these people in the past.
1:55:57
>> Um and then the night before you price. >> Yep.
1:56:01
>> Your deal gets priced.
1:56:03
>> Uh and then the morning of you.
1:56:06
>> And how does that how does that happen?
1:56:07
Is that just everyone uh like putting in different bids, testing the water?
1:56:09
Is there an automated system or is this is this piece happening more over conference calls and and discussions like walk me through that piece?
1:56:18
>> It's probably a better question for the banking syndicate that's doing it.
1:56:20
It kind of depends on I think it's probably a bit of everything at the moment.
1:56:24
A bit of technology also some phone calls. >> Sure. Sure.
1:56:29
>> Um they set the price where they think the supply that is coming to the market should price. Yep.
1:56:35
>> And then you go to sleep. >> Yep.
1:56:36
Then the next morning you wake up and of course you ring the bell.
1:56:40
>> You ring the bell >> uh at the New York Stock Exchange and um then you have a couple hour period where you're doing media interviews. >> Yes, of course.
1:56:48
>> Uh talking about your company while your stabilization agents trying to figure out where the stocks will actually trade. Yeah.
1:56:53
Where where should it open? Okay.
1:56:56
Um there's obviously, you know, a lot of supply on some of these or not not a lot, but a lot of demand.
1:57:01
>> A lot of demand on on this one in particular because we've been hearing maybe, you know, we were hearing like rounds of cheers around noon and then one and then it seemed like this particular stock opened at two kind of around there and that was all just based on matching the buyers and selling.
1:57:17
>> What What have you done as president of the exchange to attract the circles and the hinge healths and the uh and the figs? Right.
1:57:25
These are the blockbuster IPOs of the year.
1:57:27
There's obviously other players >> had it last year.
1:57:31
>> Yeah, there's obviously other there's other plenty you know other companies I won't name that would like to uh have those opportunities.
1:57:38
But what what is what is you know what makes uh NY so appealing at this moment?
1:57:46
>> Well, I think there's probably a couple of different reasons.
1:57:47
Number one, our market model.
1:57:49
this fact that there are guys and girls down on the floor who are >> putting capital to work taking the other side to stabilize a stock once it is open in the market.
1:58:00
So our market model is very much differentiator.
1:58:04
>> Uh we're the only exchange in the world that has that that market model.
1:58:06
Two are the services that we offer.
1:58:08
Um we partner with the best-in-class firms to provide the best-in-class services.
1:58:12
And three is the general community that we have of issuers at NYSC. >> That's great. Yeah.
1:58:18
Um, talk to me about the Bitcoin ETF.
1:58:20
That was kind of an interesting one.
1:58:22
Was anything different about that?
1:58:24
How did that kind of play out? >> Yeah.
1:58:27
So, we were the exchange to bring the first Bitcoin ETF to market in partnership with Gayscale.
1:58:32
We actually started working on that in 2016. >> What? >> Yeah.
1:58:38
>> I thought you were going to say in 2023 because I remember seeing some ads on CNBC and stuff for like, oh, Beret scale's happening.
1:58:43
And then there was the approval and that took some time.
1:58:46
Whenever you first got the pitch, was it did did it did it immediately make sense?
1:58:49
Did you think they were crazy at the time?
1:58:52
>> I'm a big believer in the fact that ETFs are one of the great innovations >> of in financial markets.
1:58:57
Uh it's a vehicle that allows for liquidity and transparency of assets that have less liquidity. Sure. >> And transparency.
1:59:08
So bringing Bitcoin and ETH and some of the other ones that are being talked about into the ETF structure, it really focuses on trans price transparency, liquidity, and trade certainty and the whole investor protection. >> Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure.
1:59:26
>> So it made a ton of sense to us that someone was thinking, yeah, well, if you wrap this in an ETF structure, >> Yeah.
1:59:33
you'll actually be able to get institutional investment >> and people to get exposure to the asset class.
1:59:42
>> So, eight eight years of work.
1:59:42
I imagine a lot of that's with the SEC and regulatory.
1:59:46
Um, but was there also a piece of uh talking to the the buy side and the investing group to see if there was demand?
1:59:54
Was that is that a piece of it or was it mostly just chopping wood?
1:59:58
>> It was it was chopping a lot of regulatory wood. >> That makes sense. Yeah, that makes sense. >> It was a lot of that.
2:00:01
Um, Grayscale did a great job as did >> uh the other >> another overnight success just like Figma.
2:00:08
>> Very easy >> overnight success.
2:00:09
What seven or eight years in the making?
2:00:14
>> I think Figma was over a decade, but that's how these things happen.
2:00:16
What's been your uh kind of framework around market volatility this year?
2:00:20
How have you talked with clients and issu issuers around just kind of navigating that broadly? >> Yeah.
2:00:28
Um, as a technologist, the big thing that I've been focused on is capacity in the systems to ensure that certainty and efficiency of trading was continuing to persist on those really volatile days.
2:00:39
Um, I always like to say you're investing for the long term though, like don't watch the market on any one given day.
2:00:45
The markets go up and the markets go down. Yep.
2:00:49
And we've had such a long period of time where the markets just went up. Yeah.
2:00:53
that I think people had forgotten that at times markets do go down and it's it's okay. Yeah.
2:01:00
>> Um but if you are patient and thoughtful and disciplined about your investing and you invest for the long term, you'll see the rewards of that investment. >> Makes sense. Anything else, Jordy?
2:01:14
>> What's uh what what what are you keeping track of for the rest of the year, the next quarter?
2:01:20
>> What what's on your mind?
2:01:21
>> Excited to bring some more IPOs to market.
2:01:22
Yeah, >> we got some big names that we're working with that we're really excited to to come to market.
2:01:28
Um, >> yeah, and continuing to just watch the market market moves, ensure that our systems are the >> How big is the organization right now?
2:01:40
>> Um, well, we're part of a bigger organization.
2:01:42
The bigger organization is about 13,000 people.
2:01:44
We've got about within our area, we've got about a thousand uh thousand folks.
2:01:49
um AI >> that still feel that still feels that feels pretty lean given given uh given the size of some of the some of the companies that we cover that are maybe a couple years old. >> Um impressive. >> Yeah.
2:02:02
I mean AI is a big area we're also watching as well.
2:02:05
We've been using AI for more than a decade here.
2:02:06
Um >> so >> we're very focused on the application of it for specific use cases but ensuring that >> and you're talking about internally not on the issuer side. >> Yeah. Yeah.
2:02:20
Internally, uh, but our area of focus is ensuring data privacy. Yeah. Is held.
2:02:26
Um, that's the most importance to us. >> Yeah. Yeah.
2:02:30
It seems like we're still in the early innings of actually getting a lot of those products into like enterprise ready states. Absolutely.
2:02:35
And when when you're entrusted with the safety and security and liquidity of the the most dominant American capital market, uh you can't always be on the most risk uh frontier in terms of technological adoption.
2:02:49
Yes, but we've been using AI for example to help surveil the market.
2:02:53
You can pay you can point AI at a secure >> anomaly detected data set and get amazing efficiencies. >> That makes sense. Yeah. >> Right.
2:03:05
And that then feeds back to the human who's like, "Okay, I just got a bunch of information based on this data set, this huge data set that I just pointed my AI at." >> Yep.
2:03:14
>> Um it makes the human much more efficient.
2:03:17
>> That makes a ton of sense.
2:03:17
Well, thank you so much for student for this era for hosting us given your uh engineering background and uh yeah, thank you for having us.
2:03:25
Hope to be here many more times this year. >> Come back.
2:03:28
>> Ideally, ideally the windows the windows open enough that we're just here every day.
2:03:32
>> Yeah, just fully relocated.
2:03:32
Is there an apartment up there? >> I'll I'll hang out.
2:03:36
>> Thank you so much for finally meet you.
2:03:39
>> Nice to meet you guys. >> Thank you. >> Cheers.
2:03:41
>> Um well, thank you for watching our stream today. Do we have anyone else?
2:03:46
Ben, are we ready to wrap?
2:03:46
I think we're good, right? That's a wrap, folks.
2:03:48
From the New York Stock Exchange.
2:03:51
Thank you so much for watching.
2:03:54
>> Many hopefully we will see you tomorrow.
2:03:56
>> One more congratulations to the thousands of fig mates. >> Yes.
2:04:00
>> That made this a thing. >> Yeah. Uh, it's true.