it's nice to just be able to have a space where I could step into and tap into being like myself at the highest level you know what I mean and also show people that it's okay for you to do that as well you know try and Inspire those to to tap into their higher self
[Music] followed my my intuition you know I've got um and just kind of always listening to that little voice in me that's like okay it's now it's now go you know what I'm saying don't hold back don't be afraid you know try and eradicate fear um it's a big one to come out of
childhood yeah and understand that fear uncontrolled lacks the potency required for a motivation right that is the craziest thing to be able to acknowledge because most of us spend our whole lives making decisions based out of some kind of fear of course how did you get rid of
that who helped you do that like where does that how does that go away um that's probably Foundation of that is my family you know I think I've been blessed because I've had such a great support system behind me you know my mum my brothers and sisters were very very
supportive of my dreams and like you know go for it we're gonna we're gonna back you we're gonna being your corner and I think I think that helps because I think as an artist like self-doubt and you know having periods where you don't necessarily believe in yourself is
almost inevitable sometimes so when you have like the support system around you that in those times can kind of help bring you back to that point of believing in self yeah is really helpful how important has the the kind of the Nigerian Heritage the part of your family you know that where you come from
originally and what your family what it means to you and but being in the UK which is incredibly Multicultural environment and very community based as well I lived there for a long time I mean how does that whole puzzle sort of how important is that to you when you
think about it as a through line in your life leading to your art it's super important I mean in in my household it was very Nigerian you know from my mom speaking Uber to me from our Foods you know what should we cook to the music she played to what she was watching you
know Nollywood movies and then and then as soon as I uh open my front door it's like London you know and that's an interesting situation for you to be in because you have this um this amazing community in your home which which is there telling you this is this is your
family this is where you come from yes but in London has other ideas right London is like just like hit the street and it just happens and you make it happen and it's just it's it's really ragged out there on the streets in London you just just go for sure so what was it was it like kind of forming an
identity from that that place of ultimate support you just beautifully described and then get out there and figure out who you are on the Streets of London for sure yeah well I kind of grew up in a in a in North London and growing up I kind of had obviously I had my
school friends and then I had like people that I grew up with in my area and like um I came up with a team called Space Age so there was like a group of us and we all done music and we all go to my friend um lashaan's house and like record and make music there and sometimes at mine
as well when my mom would allow it um so I've always surrounded myself with like-minded individuals um without me even knowing I guess um I think I probably just attracted that you know I was very drawn to creative people I went to a youth center called St Mary's
um really influential too I mean for the people who went there a lot came out and seemed to be built to manage the situation exactly is where I'm at inflow who I work with to to today you know so we've always kind of been around environments where creativity is like the one thing that was like ours you
know our art was ours that's an important statement Sims because you know you have built and maintained a strong independent Vision thank you and a lot gets made of Independent Artists and I've been absolutely I've done this myself where we seem so fascinated with
people who don't get drawn into the thrash of infrastructure that we almost put too much pressure like oh you're an independent artist and it's like the way you're describing is like well that's how we learned to function of course rather than make a statement it was by
Design out of the need for community and collaboration exactly exactly that and kind of just like yeah like I said our art is is really all we have this is a way in which we're able to really express ourselves and um kind of make the most out of what we have you know I'm someone that is very
big on like all right cool we ain't got budget to do this we're going to figure it out you know if we're shooting a video I've got some clothes I can borrow my sister's stuff I can you know I know your brother's got mad hats let's get him in the video Let's you know I'm
saying just trying to work with the resources we have amongst each other to to make something happen and so learning that Independence was something that I'd kind of built from from early without even really recognizing it at the time I don't think we put enough emphasis on
the fact that yeah you're working with what you have and you don't ask for these resources or not those resources But ultimately it's more fun that way if you think back on it yeah for sure we're always looking for answers right we're always looking for someone to help us
figure out our vision if we lean into a place where business tells you I got you then you're almost already denying yourself some of the most fun exactly exactly exactly and I think that's the thing that's that's the key word I think fun yeah you know what I'm saying don't
say it enough we don't say enough man sometimes it's just enjoy yourself and just have fun with it you know it hasn't always got to be so serious and so like even me as a person in real life you know I'm very to myself you know I'm just uh just me I'm quiet I'm not you
know but as soon as I get on stage or as soon as I'm doing something I'm super passionate about kind of turning to this person is that what Sims is to you is Sims a chance for you to explore something that you need to express yourself through that ultimate but
without sacrificing your actual nature as a quiet person exactly for sure and I think it's nice to just be able to have a space where I could step into and tap into being like myself at the highest level you know I mean and also show people that it's okay for you to do that
as well you know try and Inspire those to to tap into their higher self you've got to be able to protect your true nature in that space though and the more successful little Sims becomes the more people want to know about the boss of course I don't know if I want to be the boss
right now I kind of want to be able to like collect my thoughts right how is that balance because it's not like little Sims isn't a thing it's a thing right yeah I'll be honest saying like is tough you know what I'm saying and I think like um that's something that I've kind of
not struggled with but I've found challenging over the years is to wear a few different hats you know and still be myself and still be simbi you know but then also be the boss and then be the performer and then be the actor and the actor and the all-round creative and the
and the person with a loud very resonant cultural voice yeah somebody that people look to and say hey yeah you know we out here in the UK we really appreciate voices like yours yeah being loud yeah but to your point you don't strike me as a loud person by Nature yeah yeah no I'm
not to be honest and those those labels kind of get put onto you and then you kind of it's just for me to like step in that and walk in that light and be like okay cool maybe that is a purpose of mine you know to be a voice of some sort but also I'm human you know what I'm
saying so I'm going to make very human mistakes yeah and that's okay you know I never want to repeat the same mistakes but I'm open to make new ones because I'm I'm human you've made mistakes I don't know yeah and this whole thing no man I've had my fair share of uh you could have done
about that you know you didn't need to do that or you could have handled that a bit differently or whatever it was what was something that you did you feel comfortable talking about or even slightly uncomfortable enough yeah to talk about right now with me where you
were like you know what I'm not gonna forget that that was a moment where things changed for me and I understand that that is not the path I want to be on um um maybe maybe in my earlier yeah when I when I just kind of started out which is allowing people to maybe
dictate my vision a bit um or what I should dress like or what I should you know present myself as um and kind of ran with that and I always felt ah this this feels uncomfortable but yeah yeah exactly how much how much stake in the game do I have to push back
right exactly exactly and feeling like oh you know just being so trusting like which is I I love that about myself you know I give people Grace and it's like yeah you know I trust in what people say until um proven otherwise you know but I think like just in the beginning I just wish I
kind of had a bit more of that thing in me and I was like no I trust yourself you you know best you know yourself you've lived yourself for 20 odd years you know what I mean well the difference there is that like trusting somebody is different to trusting a process and the
thing is that the people who are asking you to do something that feels uncomfortable they ever hold into a process that's been established for them exactly and now they're including you in that process it's not really you're not really trusting or not trusting any
individual at that point you're all basically serving the same process facts exactly you know and the only way out of that right is to build your own process and to break and eventually even those people like come round you know and see actually that's yeah I'm not mad at that
way of doing things how things get better exactly I feel like gray area was a really important moment in that your previous album is obviously so much promise you had great experiences off the back of those there voice no disrespect to those projects but I feel
like great area to me when I heard it for the first time was you saying I got a process yeah it was for sure and being like just unapologetically me you know what I'm saying like I don't feel that there was anything at the time that was coming out that was sounding like boss that was sounding
like a fence even selfish you know I mean from from a UK artist 101 FM which jumped out so hard at the time was like for sure yeah for sure you established such a unique sound it was exactly what flow and you do so brilliantly and he's been able to elaborate on with Sultan
and some of his other you know work with other people I mean he understands the instant vintage like time was instant vintage appeal of certain drums in certain Fields yes never at the sacrifice of modernity yeah that's a fine line facts big big facts I mean to watch him grow as his friend in your
process yeah I'd be dying to ask you this how has because he's quiet how has that on the on the record not so quite off the Record but how has that been um ah man that's my problem and you know I'm saying like he's been such an instrumental part of my life journey is
simply the person you know what I'm saying not even Sims the artist like you know I'll call him and I ask him advice and so many different things and he's always just been there for me even when we wasn't like because there was a pit we started working together when I was
super young um and he would always I would just always nag him for Beats like send me beat send me beats is like 2007 2008 um and he would yeah and I did my thing or whatnot and then I kind of went off and done my own thing but he was always in my corner you know what I'm saying
and and then we kind of um I remember coming off tour with gorillas and uh I was just going for a Madness in life anyway and I was just like Dean like flow I'm ready I'm ready now it's now it's gotta be now and he was like yeah say no more how did you know you
were feeling it it was it was like it was a it went from Summer to eruption you felt it yeah it did and I just felt like there was a space that I needed to tap back into that I hadn't been in for a while and I and I I was in that space when I was working with him in my
earlier days you know what I'm saying and I thought I need to get back to that that hungar that that space space man the mic is not fit to be used after I've touched it right and and being over instrumentation that will evoke something Kimmy that I haven't said
before I haven't felt felt inspired to write about and I knew like it's gonna be overflows beats you know what I'm saying because he knows how to do that and well and kind of tailor instrumentation around the artists you know it's not just me on a beat you know see he's greater that's a producer you
know when they're able to craft the music around the artist and make it fit in for them you know I always know when an artist like yourself who's who's working in a similar energy field is in their bag is when you know you have the confidence to drop a hot eight yeah and
it's just you yeah it's just everything cuts out it's just like just let me have the floor yeah yeah you know and I think you and Flo having the confidence let that happen and not try to dress it all up I think about simply the album and I think about that couldn't exist with our
gray area those two things I feel like you needed great area had to be just kind of like an apologies if anyone's offended by swearing but I'm from New Zealand we use it only for positive purposes this our gray area is just absolutely it's like you've been just
drinking nothing but you juice right there was a thing of like there was a thing of just like you know I'm just gonna take it and I'll I'll get into the introverted side of me later yeah but right now I just gotta take it yeah is that what you were referring to
when you said there's a space I've got to get to I've got that fire in me exactly that exactly that it's gonna be 35 minutes gonna be 10 songs very direct very to the point um I'm gonna say everything that's been brewing and then kind of see what happens and honestly I had no
expectation of that album I didn't I didn't think it was going to be the Breakthrough record and I just wanted to create and just like I said get back into that space and it just shows and it's funny because that is the first album that I didn't have expectations
with and it done the most yeah my first album my second album yeah yeah it's gonna go number one process comes the expectation of results exactly and people will tell you you're going to achieve them yes because they want you to yes yeah for sure for sure and gray area was the first record
where's that regardless of what this does or doesn't do like I'm tapping into something and I'm going for it man I remember I don't believe it got back to you but someone who was working with you at the time bought came bought that album and before it came out and said I
want to play new little Sims of course I came to my office at the parking lot that played that album and I was like I'll never forget it wow I didn't forget it I mean I was pulling everybody I knew into the office that day I was like yeah it is because to your point there was an
immediacy there was a you had lit the unnecessary go so it was just all essential I was like all my days so yeah yeah I mean it didn't surprise anybody that it went on to do what it was going to do okay but at that point you know you get to decide how much of yourself you
really want to share yeah because you've put the superhero costume on you've shown the identity and I was like okay what is introvert going to be um what was that album like to make and all together different more ambitious very built on gray area but yeah it was
like if you're a tribe fan gray area is low in theory that was midnight rewards right right right right right right right yeah it's a great way to fit it for sure um sometimes I might be introvert I think was like I didn't I didn't know when we started that it was gonna sound
like that because I was so in it and I was so honed in on I guess my writing and kind of um I guess the first time that I kind of let that be the the center and the focus of my attention I think other times I've been very much like oh let's try to produce the album as well you know and
well you're a cottage industry since you've got to think about all the creative across the board right exactly but sometimes I might be into but I was so into like no I need to focus on the one thing I know I can do with my eyes closed and in my sleep and that's right
you know and so I'm gonna um hone in on that and really trust the process and it was a beautiful experience you know from just recording um I mean there was a lot going on in the world at the time of like the pandemic stuff and that so that obviously inspired a lot of people it
doesn't sound like a pandemic album at all to me in fact it was a relief that it didn't so much music felt like it was in direct reaction to what we were all going through yeah it's like that album could have come out in like 2024 right right right right right yeah and know
for sure and that was um I guess asked the same thing just happened into a space and even our recording process you know we've done some strings in a church um I was writing in my car I was right in my bedroom I was writing in the studio like I was in so many different
spaces just trying to get out what I wanted to say um and yeah it was it was a really it was a really beautiful process it was really tough as well I think I was as tough on myself right so you were setting real high standards yeah for sure especially coming off the back of
gray area I knew uh people are going to be listening I also love the fact that you um you know you really pay respects to the people in rap like you're a rap fan yeah and a lot of times people who rap don't it's not a natural conversation for me to always have with rap stars about
rappers yes and no like sometimes they go yeah I'm into this and they give you the laundry list but they don't often talk about them in the context of their music the way you do right now I wouldn't be here if it wasn't you know for the greats that come before me like
who sparked your imagination who was number one what's day one like I can tell you right now day one for me was Run DMC like everything built from Run DMC to me who was your day one Missy Missy Elliott just based off the pure fact that she was a black woman in hip-hop um and she
just stood out by being herself yeah you know that that is something that um I'll always remember just be like oh like she's so herself like that's sick you know that's that's what I want to do you know not to mention like Timbo has gotten crazy on the beach crazy you know
the videos are crazy I mean almost I think in a way we're only figuring out now just how Innovative a writer she is because the videos and the beats and the performances in her whole Aura was so on Mars they're out of here but you listen to her songs now it was amazing and the
flows yes and and what she's done just even behind the scenes you know when she's been producing or been writing songs for other people like she is so like really about it and I just remember being really really um inspired by her yeah for sure you see
and then my brother was a huge noise fan and I just I just remember like riding with him in the car and just taking him in and being like I don't understand the level of what he said but he's so smart he's a real Lyricist and um yeah I don't know too many artists in my lifetime
that paint pictures as well as he does yeah very very Vivid you know he's able to take you into One Singular environment and and describe it to such a degree that you get anxious yeah or you get excited yeah or you feel the feelings that he's feeling in that
moment it's it's not descriptive it's it's um it's immersive almost yeah exactly that I want to talk about feeling I'm obsessed with feeling right now because I think we listen to a lot of things and I think that we don't allow ourselves the space to feel as much as we should
in fact and I think that feeling is when it becomes a reality unrealized yet it becomes something that is you're on a different path when you feel it than you are when you hear it yes yes you shift a couple of degrees left or right on your axis and you're going somewhere deeper and somewhere else
um what is what is your experience when it comes to feeling things are you do are you a very are you a very emotionally uh dialed in human being do you feel a lot you do I do for sure I'm very very feelings um LED you know and that's been and these and these women was talking
about earlier about some of the mistakes and stuff and that's great for creativity and music but sometimes not so great for business you know and that's where I've had to kind of oh like I can't be so emotionally LED when it comes to business because it is the
music business you know and I gotta remove that in in some areas when it comes to to creating and and what sticks out of me and what evokes a particular emotion like that's beautiful and I love that about myself and I love that I'm able to tap into that side of myself
when writing for sure you have done I mean you know a song like wounds um the beginning of no thank you and dedication to your friend you know yeah yeah Harry and I mean I I didn't really know enough about the story until I started hearing your music and so I started investigating it what a terribly
tragic turn of events yeah this chain of events that was just set in motion so sad and real loss um when it comes to Translating that into music and finding a way to pay tribute and also work through your own feel through ART how is that for you um it's I think it just allows me to like
um speak on it to be honest because I'm someone that if I'm going through something and sometimes this is healthy and sometimes it's not but I'm very into the person you know and I'll deal with things by myself and kind of just like okay this is what I'm going for I'll go
into my little cave and you know that's it but I think speaking about it allows me to process it a lot more and remind myself that I'm human and sometimes I even say things aren't that right I didn't even know I felt like that until I said it out loud you're in some
conscious space exactly exactly so I think it just allows me to process how I'm feeling about something um and not and just not be afraid to to speak on it and that doesn't make me weak or it doesn't make me um yeah not strong or whatever it is I think I've actually found a lot of
strength in my vulnerability and um yeah nothing even listening to as we were saying artists whether that is a Nars or whether that is a biggie or packed like that yeah Lauren Hill they're very Irish you know and um but I've always saw them as like superheroes you know and they and they've I guess
the same with them they found their strength and their vulnerabilities so just knowing that I I also can do the same what is the conversation that you and Dean are having that flow are having when it's it's like you know what we should put on these Baroque horns and
sound like I'm descending into the church in order to speak to the masses right like what like what what is that conversation um straight what is the conversation um I think we're both very visual people you know and so we reference a lot of um art and film you know and we talk a
lot about film and in the studio we put films on and we do yeah so we we almost subconsciously make like score type movie type and femic cinematic songs Just because we're genuine fans of that it's cool because you get to almost attach the emotion that's going through
you yeah to a visual yes that allows it to become to to to better vividly explain it yes it's like motivation material I love that yeah man what were you playing movies um well I think one of our guys who's probably Breakfast at Tiffany's so yeah why yeah
um just this aesthetically and just like the colors are so beautiful oh my God you two are like were you like such a weirdo Renaissance people right yeah you really are like you just come here from such a different place yeah no but it's cool and I think it just allows us to
like it almost sometimes doesn't feel like we're making music as little Sims and as inflow you know what I'm saying we're just creating you know um this could be for anything really yeah just uh yeah so it's a fun way to make it so no thank you it's time yeah I want to talk about it I want to talk
about what I mean I just want to get to a very very basic straightforward starting point on this on this album um it felt like it came quick I know it didn't but it felt like it did because I felt like introvert just kept building a momentum building momentum and then we
all came out of quarantine and it was positioned for us to really love outside yes so it felt like it never went away it never felt like it like the the cycle had exhausted itself so when no thank you came around probably not to you but to me it was like already outstanding so
what made you want to get back in but even that though I think we gotta get out of this like being so attached to stuff like so I remember putting songs out on MySpace every week SoundCloud every week yeah like go do you know what I'm saying like and
so I don't know when this thing of like you gotta wait three four years to put out and what I do is when people it's when something connects and then everyone's like please just stay with this for long enough to let as many people absorb it as possible I hear it
but where does that leave the artist do you know where does that leave me like I understand today was gonna be Wicked that's the best that's the best question it's not even a question that's actually a statement question it doesn't actually deserve a response right it's you're making a statement
with a question mark right yeah because it's true from from the release date something comes out on this date but I wrote this two years prior you know what I'm saying so I'm in a totally different space from when introvert actually came out don't talk to me like
I'm there Drake from five years ago I'm in a different place you know I mean it's it's we do like I think I think that's the part of the trade we get confused about as fans and I'm including absolutely like front center on this conversation is that I I become attached to what it means to me and I'm
not quite sure how to let you go right right right right right right right right right yeah and I hear it you know I'm also a fan and I get that as well but sometimes like and and there's a thing called like not a thing called like you haven't heard of this before
but momentum as well you know it's like you have something building and it's like no Now's the Time to Say Something Like and I'm it's never gonna feel like this again you know so yeah and also there there was stuff going on at the time I remember I just had to cancel my
US tour um and that was a really rough period I was like you know switching teams around and stuff is that why you had to cancel it yeah infrastructure mm-hmm and just this thing's not being handled the way they should have been um I take accountability for sure you
know because I I know my 50 um but I have to I had to protect myself in that space and my mental well-being and you have to take accountability to make a change that dramatic anyway for sure 100 that's very nature blame doesn't actually work it doesn't doesn't
mean for me and I think I'm really like thankful that I had I have support and you know fans as I do that actually were like y'all like it's all good like you know what I'm saying so tell us about another project we'll be fine yeah you know so it's always like all right cool
I can't yeah um come out and see you but I have got new music for you and guess what I'm gonna come and tour both albums you know yeah it's gonna be crazy I mean I even know you to a gray area obviously extensively and you've done festivals and whatnot and bought this music to
life but I feel like you're this this feels like a triumvirent tour to me right like it feels like I'm feeling like like I said there's three books on the row here and they all speak to each other perfectly and I just think your Arc actually all things work out timing
wise when they're supposed to for sure it was good why'd you go to Paris just because um no well I was on tour yeah um and I had the most time off in Paris right so it made sense to kind of uh try and finish the album which by the way even when we shot the visual visual which was
shot by a director by Gabriel Moses amazing filmmaker by the way um he I brought him to the studio like flowing out working versus what overhears mixes were off but everything was like a bit of a mess and he understood what we was working with and even on a day of the shoot we were
shooting songs that were not finished um I was like on set and flows in the studio recording strings and I was bouncing between both and then going to do a show it was Madness but um yeah man everyone believed and I think when and that's another thing as well sometimes
like you don't you don't need to pitch that this is gonna be the most that makes some people just believe and just get it you know I think you established that yourself though I think there is not too gas you to well sure that's my job my guess what I think you
established this this ability to be able to there's there's a trust in the process even if the process is unrealized yeah and also as a filmmaker that's got to be fun I think yeah you know to me I think too I don't know Gabriel maybe not but I do think if you're a filmmaker right often you get
given a finished result yeah and it's like uh translate that into something and I think sometimes it's nice to be able to kind of have an unfinished body of work to figure out where where the gaps are missing pieces are facts for sure yeah and that's yeah that's
what made it fun for me anyway I think just knowing that okay we got this day this has to be in by this time otherwise we're not going to get this album out when we want it to yeah I've already announced it so I'm like you know I'm just committed yeah I'm committed I'm all in
um flows on boarding out saying the team's on board game we was doing his thing so it really was like a team team effort did you laugh when you came up with the album title because of the multiple meanings it can be taken from yeah it's brilliant it's hilarious yeah
I cracked up laugh I showed it to three people to see what they thought and it was exactly as I expected one was like no thank you another one's like no thank you and then there was a big debate like well someone should put a comment that would have a comma after everyone I was
like I don't think it's that cut and dry yeah yeah and uh I just to be honest it it stemmed from uh I guess somewhat a deep meaning just well it's not even that deep to be honest it was just a realization of like the power of the word no no yeah oh it's huge with
politely though you know the era of no is when the art gets enters a very fruitful phase yes because no allows space for the right yes yes yes that's what I think I I just I think like man and I've been like I used to get so upset when artists would say no and now I'm like good for you come back
come back to me when you're ready to say yes yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah for sure and same you know that was always like a um it just meant Rejection it meant this it meant it had so many negative like things attached to it and actually it's like no there's so much power yeah in
the word no in a positive way um and just standing for something can be like no like you know I'm I'm actually all right it's not compromising anything here um yeah yeah mum you're a gorilla you know I'm I'm out here man it's a jungle that is and I'm telling you ah but
you're a gorilla you know you you know you've I mean literally beyond the song and Beyond everything else you know you did have your your time and that cam um it's it's rare air and and you know and and that watching them on stage at Coachella on the stream I'll be there
this weekend and and seeing the whole thing occur and happen um reminded me that it's it's kind of been one of pop music and and modern music's great experiments this Timeless experiment what did you take from from there because when you when you really stepped into the environment with Dan
Jamie yeah you want what you weren't so be as you are now right yeah yeah yeah yeah no I wasn't at all and I think I remember first getting in getting in um into the studio with d for the first time and uh my anxiety just being through the roof now like this is mad
and trying to I guess I felt myself trying to mold myself into what their thing was and I remembered Damon peeping it and being like no no that's not why I called you in here I called you in here because I want you to do that thing you only you can do you
know and I think from that I was just like ah okay so every space I walk into all I gotta do is bring myself you know that's what I took from from Damon you know what I'm saying that might be one of the greatest observations any artist can come to is bring yourself to any
space you know what I'm saying you ain't gotta mold yourself or try and fit into Norman you know if you're in that room is because of you so you can do you trace all that's occurred in the last five years kind of back to that observe to that moment that's D yeah and what would it happen
if I just brought myself at that point you know um so that's something that they yeah I always have so much love and respect for Damon for for that one for that one thing he said to me he has this reputation for being this like curmudgeonly and compromising grumpy at
times you know British would have a different word for it beginning with C right New Zealand has used their word too right I'm sure he's been called that many times right um but never works lovely he's the most he's one of my best mates but but never excluding that personal relationship
never when it comes to the artist or the artist no like that I feel like he's one of the most encouraging special collaborators in modern music history and I'd love that you know anyone that's kind of worked with him or has everybody he always has a space for them you know
what I'm saying is whoever is cool we're playing here and come out and do this song on this shirt like there's always a space to like be a part of that family it's ever extending it's ever prone and and he's built that you know and I just it's really inspiring for me anyway [Music]