a couple of songs on this album made some grown straight man cry so I always think when you get a grown rich white straight man crying you're doing something really right [Music] it was almost like a rehabilitation process with Rick Rubin it was like going to pop star rehab yeah no because the last time we spoke right unless I remind you
um you had an album out that started with a line that says tonight's the best night of our Lives Can you feel it God can you like the Divine Comedy the timing of that is like I mean You Gotta Laugh at right well I think what you got to do is you gotta you gotta be kind to yourself you got to take a look at yourself in that
moment in 2020 and and you said it all in the album title you're like I'm I'm trying to take the high road here yeah and at that time you kind of have to like look back at yourselves and have compassion I guess you do but it's not that I I still love that album I think standing alone minus the timing of everything I have fun like
listening to kinky featuring my old self like that's funny it's a great album we had a great time talking about it and yeah and I recognized that you are trying to manifest a process to get through struggle and Trauma it's like that album was willing you out and that's why when I heard this album I was like so it dragged you back in you had to do
the real work well yeah and that album I think when I was making it I've never I haven't told anybody this but I had this like really strange feeling the entire time I was making high road I was like I don't know really why but this is just something's gonna happen I didn't know what it was yeah but so I was just like I'm just gonna like try
to reclaim my joy yeah yeah and then when the world stopped and we're all left alone in our heads like you said I had to like okay like I'm gonna none of us could run at that point uh no there's nowhere to run to anyways you can also run and there you are that's when I started therapy again you know that's when I realized like damn
abstractions aren't working okay I had to start and I think you know and and it was also I'm not to turn this into a quarantine conversation but I I'm actually here for it because I think we were all like we came out of there to some degree and we're like let's just not even talk about it's like that's not healthy um you know there was so much trauma and
tragedy wrapped up into all that so yeah we're dealing with our own internal selves trying to figure out how to grow whilst we're constantly having to acknowledge and empathize with people who in many respects are going through unimaginable sadness absolutely like I don't even like not I always have to think like what
I've gone through is nothing compared to what a lot of people have gone through in the past what are we as human beings if we don't have the context of our own experience and I think that we have to also talk about being kind to yourself like I think you can be both I think you can be self-aware and externally aware
at the same time totally and like you're allowed to be affected by the things that affect you and also understand that there are people that are affected by very different more intense things yeah and like both can be true both can be true was there ever a moment when you were deep in your process whatever shape that took where you weren't sure if there was
music that could come out of this because it was maybe it was too close to write about or it just wasn't presenting itself as a solution like it had before well I had like ever since I was little like 10 years old I just it was almost like a coping mechanism it's not almost one it's a coping mechanism writing a song about something so I'd go
through a breakup and be like well being heartbroken I'm gonna make a song out of it and then there's something positive that comes out of this shitty feeling so I went through my life writing songs and like trying to find humor and levity in the emotions that just become unbearable and I don't know if that's
just me who I am I'm too sensitive it's too much like am I just too much I don't know but when I get an emotion it's like it's not a wave it's a tidal wave so for me to just sit in that it becomes unbearable so I have to take it and make a song out of it it's just the way I cope with life that's my mechanism
so then something comes out of it even if nobody hears it even if the song is whatever at least I did something with it instead of just sitting around feeling sorry for myself that's actually actually almost the best position to execute is is to be okay not executing and just doing it for you like I asked Dolly Parton she's like I can't walk
past a guitar without strumming it or touching it in the house and I was like do you ever does it ever draw you back after you've taken two steps past it and say no no that's not enough today you gotta write you gotta write me write with me yeah she's like all the time I say do we hear every one of those songs she's like absolutely not no oh my God
it's like when things leak I don't actually care that much except for when it's a bad song because I'm like just let me bury the bodies please you're not meant to see this you're not meant to hear it and like nobody is and I wish it didn't exist but so just like let it die so not to be morbid about this because we're a long way from this
reality but at some point your estate will belong to somebody else needless to say you would have wrapped that up and ensured that those bodies are buried from a songwriting point of view oh yeah no I've like already talked to my brother about it because I was like if I sound like if you put it on I'm gonna contact your ass
and I am so serious since I've seen you last I like I went through this crazy psychedelic like spiritual experience in the midst of the anxiety unaided as well right you weren't on anything this wasn't an Ayahuasca trip this was pure meditation it was meant it was pure anxiety I think it was pure like my brain like felt like I thought maybe it was the process of
having like a psychotic break or something but then once I just started leaning into it so I was like well it's happening so what am I gonna do about it so I had this full like psychedelic kind of trip sober and that's what eat the acid is written about um but after that I just really started leaning into I'm a triple Pisces I love
weird unexplainable spiritual Supernatural stuff so after this happened to me I went down like a total like it's my rabbit hole I'm currently in is just the Paranormal like and also different spirituality like different things people believe in I'm just trying to read about it because I feel like we're all talking about a
similar thing you know you you did something in my life once which I'll never forget which I thought was really actually really touching like he texted me during quarantine and said hey you got a minute and of course I called you and you're like I said a dream last night you were in it I just want to make
sure everything's cool it's not that it was a bad dream it's just that if someone enters it in my subconscious state I'd like to check on them and make sure they're okay now what's really interesting about that was you know we had a quick conversation I reassured you we went back to life it was cool I hung up and the kind of person I am
I spent like a couple of minutes going where are the kids are they cool where's Cara shoot my wife is she cool check on my dad checking my mom did that thing because that that really sweet very nice gesture tapped into my spirituality in a way but then when I came out of that checking process I actually learned something from that
which is that um it doesn't have to be a concerning thought it can just be a nice thought and it really reset how I kind of default position went into like let's get you checking in on me like what's going on do I not know something like what's happening and it was so sweet and and I and I've really tried to practice that ever since because it was
such a it was just such a genuine Outreach it was just a really cool thing why just when people pop in there I always like to like it's I always take everything as a sign which is maybe why I felt like I was having a psychotic break that must be intense if everything's a sign like that's almost like you're it's almost like your
hearing aid has turned up to oversensitive uh yeah and like especially in the Silence of the past few years yeah and like readdressing my life and you know there's a lot I can't talk about we don't have to yeah but like litigation's ongoing yeah and just let that thing happen right because that's in someone that's on everyone
else's hands yeah but so there's a lot of things we all go through like I know what mine are I don't know where yours are but so when I think of someone yeah it's not necessarily a bad or good thing unless you like died in my dream which I don't believe was the case I don't think so if you did I don't think I would have
told you I don't think you would have and also your dream's a little early but like I just always been like oh the universe wants me to like my energy thought of you for something it was really cool I loved it it was really cool and um especially a time when people weren't reaching out to anybody we didn't know how to communicate with each other at that
point do we anymore still because I hope so I sometimes feel like my social graces have gotten a little [Applause] seriously can you can you give me a playful example of one of those situations playful example like I just when people start doing small talk I start telling them about my like psychedelic experience and then they're
just like I just wanted to ride the elevator with you and it's just impossible now I'm like full-blown I once created a party in seven minutes when I played Porter's head's third album oh my God at one o'clock in the morning when everyone was just settling in to drink champagne have beers and get through to the sunrise and I was like
listen to this and it was like oh we should go so I'm fully with you sometimes I feel like I'm not actually built for social graces period but like this is also the the question my mind is is like how do you act normal like what does that mean I don't think of you as normal well that's good because well I mean it's good and it's not good
I wish at some point in my life someone would think I was like kind of normal but I think I'm too far gone I don't think that I think there's a difference between being too far gone and being abnormal I I just think that from what I hear of your music and the more I get to know you here's the great thing because I'm I'm a
lot more mature than you and here's the great thing that maturity brings if I may just patronize yourself please here's what here's what maturity brings you is it just brings you a sense of um fulfillment with all of the abnormalities that you have going on around you you know as long as you keep doing the work and figure out how to
keep the ones that are out of control and check and get rid of the ones that no longer serve you eventually you're left with just the refined weirdness and the refined weirdness is awesome like I'm a weird person too I mean you seem a bit weird but you like really also seem to hold it together it's called maturity it's just
understanding that the weird is the weird you know and like that's when I hear like this album I just feel like you've gone into the weird acknowledged the weird and said this is actually totally fine whatever the rabbit holes you call it is I'm in it it's cool I'll come out of it I'll learn from it I'll move on yeah good
I'm happy it like comes across as that because like I said at the beginning I was like gorilla training but I seem a little weird yeah you're weird I'm just double checking it look at you [Laughter] no you're brilliant but also with that comes like weird weird and yeah it was it was it was a gag um it was it was a thing it was a play a bit um
yeah but I do I do think there's a song on the album called Fine Line sounds like an Allison chain song now it sounds like a grunge really it started full country but no that started like major chords yeah there's a fine line and I've been walking oh like very like almost sort of a positive take on a destructive situation yeah
which I guess my process with working with Rick who I'm sure you know love him but he kind of took all my I tend to write everything on major chords which I think is probably my underlying problem of trying to make something positive out of everything and then he puts the chords that actually match the lyrics yeah because the lyrics he
was like this is a really dark song yeah and it sounds like you know a Dolly Parton song yeah but you've been doing that from day one you talked about the humor that people get got addicted to in the early songs and the playfulness and the fun but and maybe we talked to us in the past but if you go back and listen to those
early albums and they are sad albums I mean you are at a party but I'm not sure you're happy at that party no I think it was I mean some of the parties I was having a great time at that point for sure being like a 20 year old romping around so the caricature of myself that has been formed was absolutely parts of me but it wasn't entirely like
I always wanted to show this other side of myself that I get to show on this album yeah and you know for whatever reason I haven't always got to show all sides of myself yeah and then it became dangerous in my mind for me to show that side because the happy fun party starting positive dance glitter girl she was so
loved we like that we want you to we you're awesome and you're like but I'm not sure that's accurate on an identity level yes yeah and that's like a it's a hard thing when oh it's brutal people love a side of you that you also love but then you feel like you're not being seen I feel like we all want to be seen I think I think to bring it into an
environment which everyone can relate to and to preserve the Integrity of your approach to this conversation I respect it you're walking in a fine line I'm watching the finest line yeah yeah yeah yeah and it's exhausting the song lyrics are so honest yeah they are and I think uh you put it through the music that's where you've chosen to
live at this point but bringing it back to the idea of what is effectively identity theft and I'm not saying any one person stole it I'm saying we all contributed to it as fans and you let it happen and didn't let it happen and it's just a big thrashy mess right it's tough just no matter what happens whether it ends or begins in litigation
or not it's exhausting trying to snatch that back take that back it's hard I've seen it over and over again with artists it's really hard so not just me no but especially like you know AC DC you want an AC DC album yeah but they like their identity very very happy being AC DC in fact I will go as far as to say that AC DC
found the per formula and then just for like packing out hit it hit a thought that he'd have thought you'd if we'd have found this in Australia look that's just it's like it's like someone was just like this is this is eternal youth you know amen [Music] perfect there's something perfect about that knowing being a constant yeah is
very comfortable so when people you listen to change drastically yeah I think it can be uncomfortable for everybody and it's not necessarily like I have no idea if people are gonna like it or even listen to anyone but it doesn't matter because you crack the code and the code is that the album exists within its owner identity it it
now has an identity I keep saying this is such a good line and this will bring us to a nice anecdote I'd love to get more detail from you because you touched on it in a recent interview but when I spoke to Neil Young and there was this encouragement for us to talk about Harvest and he was open to one or two questions and I was a bit reluctant
because I'd know Neil enough to know this is his idea of a bad time but he's like okay so it was I'm like okay so we started in this thing and toward the end of it he was just like look man that guy's around that guy is around he's loving that album and he's just back there in this Loop having a great time making that record just that Neil is just he's
so happy making Harvest yeah but there's been a lot of me yeah so there's a lot of guys a lot of guys they're going on in this life yes many chapters many chapters many identities that's the point right well and I wonder because I've been so far at living so far up my own anal cavity that I don't actually know if other people like when
you see photos of yourself on like yeah whatever social media or your phone do you ever look back at periods of your life and be like yikes yeah delete yeah no I don't want to look at this right now yeah because as much fun as I maybe was having in the moment and making myself I'm giving myself idiot Shivers
yeah but guess what that idiot back there is having a great time and still lives there yeah no I love her have the best time like see you later you do you I feel like it's my little sister see that's a nice that's a nice feeling because it brings a nurturing into the Judgment of judging yourself yeah I I had to do a lot of therapy to get past
that you know I would I would just the same I'd be like oh you know the I used to the used to come out of my mouth like hell the I used to say to tell myself that you know I was this this and that and it's yeah self-awareness is one of the hardest tricks to learn it's really tough it's uncomfortable and like there's a part of me there's a line in
fine line that's like there's a fine line between happy and stupid as and I'm sometimes missed the stupidity I miss it I know and I I feel for you because you've really been the last two albums in particular have I think I I feel the the how tough it is for you as a human being to try to get back to just simply stupid
oh yeah I I kind of like you know the last before gag order yeah I like really wanted to reclaim my joy and there were definitely like surface elements of doing that but unfortunately I find that I had to really go into the head and go to all the places the deep dark corners and deal with this yeah before I can have any semblance of
true yeah true Joy and true happiness like I said you saw her coming the high road is a false path really it's a fall I mean I thought maybe like if I just you know power of positive thought I'm also really into manifesting so it's the same same but to say I'm taking the high road by its very nature is to suggest that I understand that
there is a darker place that some exists somewhere and I choose to ignore it and that's really what the term to me at least means and so that album to me is like the step before you know are you are we gonna are we gonna go there and I think getting to this now this this relationship with someone like Rick who um has this innate ability to identify
within and around the songs what's really going on and then creates a safe place for artists to be able to let it out away from that sort of identity like that thing of like oh this is what people want or this is what I should do he's like oh it gives a yeah that was a trip working with someone's first time in life including
with my mom because like she is been a songwriter yeah forever so like this is the first time in my life I sat with someone they were like let's just make what we both think is cool they're you're not being a vehicle for something that you will please others with and like get paid admiration Etc the whole process with Rick that blew my
mind was being present in how I feel and making it come out into the song in a way that felt like it's reflective of the feeling a sound that reflects a Feeling and I just had never made art for that purpose before like subconsciously you know like I didn't really know but in making these songs with Rick we never once talked about singles
radio any of it it was just we're making a song about how you feel and that like still kind of blows my mind because the entirety of my life it was always there was this illusion of what it was for and I working with Rick has now made me fall in love with music again because I remembered yeah why we all love it and why I loved it
you know what I remember you talking about the relationship you had with your mom as a songwriter as songwriters as well as as mother and daughter and you describing the the form of tough love that she would she would exercise in terms of hearing your songs and whatever and how important that was to helping you shape songwriter yeah I remember
that right oh yeah she's amazing but she's also no human yeah very no yes and so that was the tough love only a mother can exercise that muscle yeah Rick was doing the same thing he's just doing it from a different place right he's doing it from a place that I think she had been like gorilla trained and writing songs because she
was a staffed songwriter yeah so I think coming at it from this place of like it's not for anyone else was so weird I'm actually like walking through this in parallel and like my therapy too where it's like if it's not for anyone else like you do it for yourself to make yourself happy and for your insides are you at a
place now well with all this going on where you're starting to see the Poetry in all of it even the struggle and I'm not trying to be glib because I know it's been a struggle and continues to be a struggle um sick of walking the fine line that fine that that fine line that's a very important word let me get that right
sick of walking that fine lines jumping out off this iPad right in front of me but I think true growth comes from acknowledging that it's complicated and the growth may not always be from a natural normal fun experience it's going to come from trauma as well oh God yeah I mean would I look back at the whole thing I oftentimes think like I believe I have
to I don't know I believe there's many lives so I came down here to learn I guess so I'm learning a lot [Applause] and I do like that's why I kind of take everything as a as a sign from the universe so like if I dream about somebody I text it like it's because I do feel like I'm in this Cosmic dance this Divine Comedy and
like I'm just I have to just be here for the ride and like kind of see what's going to happen I've realized that you have to have like good boundaries is something I've learned recently but yeah I'm like I'm here for the ride and I'm just trying to hold on tight boundaries are crucial and I think as kids we sort of told our boundaries
exist within the lines of personal physical safety don't go there don't touch that careful which is sort of understandable being a parent I get it I've done it and there's no avoiding it or maybe there is I actually have one parental friend of mine who's like they'll figure it out and I'm like they're running along an open ball
it's like trust the universe trust the process like no make sure your kid doesn't fall in the pool but this is the this is the conflict I'm getting at that I feel has existed within you to some degree is that you are someone who is attracted to spirituality and a desire to want to let go and yet you've found yourself in some of the most controlling
environments of an artist or a human that I've had conversations with you know yeah and I think a lot of that it's really weird we're having this conversation because I had a really in really intense therapy session yesterday about this um how do I put this in a way that I can um to trust and be trusting is a very child childlike quality
and I sample my knees on the album later on in the in the album to refer to make reference to how beautiful it is when you can live in your childlike self like that's such a goal and it's not always safe to just blindly trust that's why I have a problem with faith sometimes because I don't think you like can survive off of pure faith and
trust and I think that goes back to because I think people are good but people are bad so you have to protect yourself and have those boundaries laughs and I don't really remember what your question was really because you answered it perfectly okay now it's just like going down the pathway of by the way I have no questions
I'm just trying to stay right here I'm just trying to stay right here did any of that make sense yes okay okay it did make sense but where it becomes really interesting is um people and a person are very different things and um I don't want you to I hope this isn't sort of me overstepping the mark but how is this process affecting your
ability to maintain a relationship it doesn't have to be overly personal romantic or anything just a singular relationship because that to me is where trust is at it's absolute most important yeah it's definitely hard I'm not gonna lie I have people that I trust implicitly like so much in my life so I'm very lucky for that um but I have a harder time
in romantic relationships really trusting I'm going to be honest with you yeah and yeah it's something I work on like that's why I'm constantly working on myself is because it's not all it's selfishly I'd like to um be happy with just pause that well and I want to be happy which the last song on the album It's called happy and that's
kind of where I was going it's about just that like I want to be happy I want to let go I want to be free I want to trust the process trust the universe all of those things and I do feel like I cannot just remain in my child like self so there's an element of having to grow up and I feel like this album completely
documents the time where I was like okay I have to like I have to deal with some and I just need to walk through and it's gonna be really uncomfortable and I feel like it's really helped me grow into a woman um and it's you know you hear it all in the album you can hear it start to finish like going through these stages of
emotions and I never let myself go through before I'm the girl that wrote We Are Who We Are love yourself okay Tick Tock we're having fun Warrior I'm such a warrior and at those moments in time I did feel the invincibility of Youth me youth is wasted on the young I say that it's only old people can say that so careful because you're not there yet
but I can definitely say it and it's funny you know it's so true you just have this sense of like anything and everything is possible M should be absolutely that like that bravado I would kill to have that bravado back me like yeah but confident but to trade that for true knowledge of self I think it's fair trade is it not
it's not like a weekend being 20 years old again just a weekend I don't want to live there but sounds like a nice vacation honestly but no I actually like in all honesty yeah and never in a million years that I think I'd be sitting here talking to you about the fact that I just spent three years making an album with the greatest
living music producer on the planet because he hears it Kesha he hears it he understands I can speak for I would never dream but in this case I can't he he is it he wouldn't show up if he didn't and he doesn't have to and so when I hear that when I put this album on I was like I was like oh like I immediately thought of the moments of
what you were going through before the songs came and I was like hard work flood emotion a lot of like rage and just trying to figure it out and thank goodness Rick was there because I because he's so present I know that he's just letting that happen a lot of people would be like what do I do how do I control this oh it
was so nice I'm gonna get fired like I'm gonna get fired no I'm gonna get fired I can't control oh the label's gonna call how's it going I'm new like she's doing the homework that's outside crying uncontrollably I don't know what to do I don't know what to do she's singing a three-minute song about wanting to be a house cat yeah what do
we do what do we do I'm freaking out you know she wants to put her armed ass on the record is gonna like bang out those hits but you know what I believe in ROM dancing I don't give a anymore well I think I think that's that's our that's our right is to is to find the people that apply to our puzzle and to believe in them and allow
them to guide us right I I take absolute power this is a weird thing to admit yeah please I totally take empowerment out of Chino Moreno from Deftones I listen to that band I thought you're talking about the shoes okay go on go on I listened to the band and I don't just hear riffs and energy and and all that stuff I
he puts me back together he knows I've told him he puts me back together he's my ROM Das at times really yeah yeah and so it's like we choose who is going to be a part of our story when I feel like we all have these weird life experiences like your life is weird my life is also weird different and weird no but everybody says like if you
sat down with anybody everybody has their own story but all those perspectives can like help each other because I feel like in the reason music is so important is because it connects us even though we're so different totally and I feel like we spend so much time on these different social media app like all this stuff trying to connect and
like to the point where it gets addictive because I feel like and I could be wrong maybe it's just me but sometimes I feel so alone in here then when I hear someone else say something that really connects to how I'm feeling yeah it makes me believe in God like I am not alone and we're all being held together and yeah I don't know it's just like a
beautiful connective tissue that is very spiritual I want to talk about a song called any love can save us now yeah title itself is one of the most kind of talk about manifestation that that's manifestation on a mass scale yeah it's a big statement it's a beautiful statement it deserves to be Mass marketed for the end of time
um what was the honest headspace you were in when you started to put this piece of music together that song actually happened like The Best Time Ever that day we were at Shangri-La in the chapel which nobody is aware there's a video of me touring Shangri-La at some point before I did a rick interview years ago
it is like the Mount Olympus of Music it really is it is like the first time I went there I just like was like sobbing because it was so it's so unbelievable when you when you make it to Shangri-La I get to create here like it's like pilgrimage to the motherland you hear that that's you hear that it's it's I mean last time I went up there I
was with Rick and Neil on the lawn in the rain having a conversation my God just like you yeah the greatest of all time the greatest like moment in the rain but you can imagine how what that was like too trying to coax those two into a conversation about something that got made three months ago they're like hmm so funny yeah well I mean Neon
I was too nervous to like actually interact with him so I kind of looked at the wall and talked that was so awkward like moments like me yeah so no I don't really know what it's like to look at oh I'll tell you I'll tell you Neil Neil look at you and he'll be like are you he'll be every answer will be like are you here with me
right now and then if you skew it ever so slightly to the left Rick will go and just giggle and just think it's the funniest thing he's ever seen you're basically cooking it up with two of like two gandalfs for for the price of one it's insane I like really Envy I'm gonna have to go watch this conversation it's really good it sounds
amazing it was really great but I mean Shangri-La is that place I people talk about almost through the lens of like Arts you know Paradise yeah but real emotion comes out there deep deep honesty gets elicited from within at Shangri-La and just is what it is like that's what happened to me that was my experience it might all just be like playing into
some sort of Illusion but whatever illusion it really it worked for me and so I was in this burnt out Chapel at Shangri-La and I was outside in the grass and then this like nasty beat was playing and then I just like started flexing because I had spent so many months in just like some of these songs that are D so miserable deep misery
by the way the album's a banger go get it it's out now it's over I'd be like gag order the new album from Kesha deeply miserable and out now well that's I'm doing interviews sometimes I'm I feel like like I'm in an alternative universe and it's very surreal yeah because I feel like also people are like shut up don't say that but it is it's
not like um the most bangery of albums but there are bangers there's bangers there are bangers but they're also sensitive beautiful intimate gorgeous mind songs and this is one of those moments when you're like that misery I'm going in today's a day and I'm gonna and if I can be present enough to capture the sadness I
should be present enough to capture the goodness Bingo and that to me is also one of the keys to life is address the sadness but also address the is for as much time as I make to do therapy and be in my in the fixing of self I also you won't I said sure oh but then I try to take as much time to be in the joy and celebration
so this song I went in and I was like okay I just like really need a day to flex and act like I'm a rapper please and so my boys were like yeah let's go and then we're just kind of playing around and the song came out really fast and I just got to say a bunch of things it's almost when you're writing a song and you're in my position
you don't really know it's gonna come out of your mouth because you have so much in there yeah that you haven't expressed and a lot of which I can't well that's how do you walk that that's the fine line I know that's that fine line but it's like to be in a situation where you want to honor the creative process which
and it's at its very core centers for all aspiring artists who are growing and forming their sound and their voice it really centers around one core principle which is tell the truth right yeah and you can't and you've done a damn good job of telling your truth but it must be hard it must feel sometimes like how do I honor the songs here well it feels a lot
like there's a plastic bag over my head my head and I'm suffocating and choking on my tongue yeah hence the album cover which if I'm not mistaken and maybe I'm seeing it wrong so please correct me but it looks like you're looking but so slightly off camera for that picture yeah I am a little bit um yeah super effective
it's super effective about I'm really zoomed in and the closer you get to it the more it looks like you're staring down the barrel but when you step back it's almost like one of those classic Illusions from Renaissance heart you know it's like no she's just just like a point five percent off access that's so funny that you got that oh
yeah I didn't think I'm even because we took a couple that's so funny this album is like um it's as it's as close to the truth as anyone's ever got in anything so it's not like you pull back trust me it's not like there's unresolved moments here it's your truth and it's going to change over time it always will everyone's does and you know
I think your life's journey in the way of you you're reflecting it through the art that you're put on this lifetime to make focusing on the art because I know you're in another journey and that's I respect it's your journey it's going exactly the way it should the art is going exactly the way it should okay believe that I do like I have to oh it
is as a as someone who listens to your music and respects your artistic voice I think this album will save you just like the last one did and the next one will four that's what it's for you said in the beginning it's there to trace the journey and I think you can only honor the songs in a way that they'll allow you to and
they're protecting you and everyone else as well I mean the music isn't just there to it will never take you off the edge if you think about all the greatest songs of all time that sound like if someone's ripping their heart open or whatever the song also knows where the line is it knows where the fine line is I also think that
I've realized in art that's where you can really go over the line because it's a safe place to go over the line and Rick taught me that um because I kept writing songs about trying to find balance and he was like no the art is where you go off rails this is punk rock Rick from New York I mean I only know the Rick from like meditating the punk rock
Rick is still there and when you get them out have you must have had conversations with him where it's all just like full Lotus position and then he'll just go but I hate that he about where's there anymore Around Me Maybe maybe a curse maybe since he became a dad too I don't know I've definitely been out to lunch and he's like you
know really yeah never cursed the whole time but when Iowa curse and I'm like whistling Rick is here oh my God he does the wrestling that's so funny but he's about to jump off the top Ropers to find me over the salmon no he is okay he's like the most punk rock Zen dude ever dude ever and like yeah it's been an
honor it's been like an honor it's not a bean by the way I mean you know just keep going I mean no we are still it hasn't been but it has been but it will continue to be like that's beautiful a beautiful um I don't know there's like probably some part of me that like I don't know who my dad is so there was some really cool thing about being
around someone who is like male strong paternal energy like you know and Feeling Just like so emotionally protected that kind of actually had a physical response the left side of my body when I get like anxious or triggered or whatever yeah it um sees us up same really it's the bridge I got taught apparently it's the bridge that our
bodies this is just from my experience yeah I got taught that the body stores trauma and stores the anxiety and the stress because we haven't developed an effective enough a bridge to get it over to the other side of the brain where it should be stored internally and could be processed effectively so the body kicks
in to protective mode over protective mode and it stores it because we're not processing it and that's why it starts to manifest physically I used to get stiff arms fingers I mean I'm getting a little bit of it now just because we're in a beautifully intense conversation and I can feel you know the the the experience has been traumatic for you so
I'm so probably having a bit of an empathetic reaction so very very minor and it's like you can feel it and it's because the brain isn't processing them what that's what I got told I like that and that's why like reading about like all these different psychedelic things that can help which I've not done but it sounded really interesting to
like re-wire the neural Pathways and all of that sounds really interesting because Lord knows I've tried all the other kinds of therapy oh but with working with Rick I found the left side of my body stopped um hurting it was just it was always in this diff uh self-protective defense tension and then over the course of the past
couple of years it's it's really settled I still have moments of it but it's not um constantly yeah and you know it's probably a suit between trusting myself trusting him and the whole process of making this album my body has physically reacted to it in a really interesting weird and beautiful way yeah because you were probably
storing it and it's like now it's out and it's like okay but now it's out for everybody to listen to which is also kind of psychotic that you would put out all this trauma into something and then play it to the whole world it's kind of insane Tom York doesn't think so and if Tom York doesn't think so I'm fine with it you know do
you know what I mean like fine this is the guy when I told him that Dawn Chorus on his last solo album made me pull over nearly pull over and I because I burst into uncontrollable tears behind the wheel of the car and he landed across the table and went Wicked I mean that is like he asked him what about you and he's like the same
still after making it and listening to it and everything same wow and he said that's the point um when I hear stories like that it makes me feel better because I told you you're not alone in this yeah it just feels quite deranged of course just really drench but I'm here for it like I like I like the deranged part of life but
a couple of songs on this album made some grown straight men cry so I always think when you get a grown rich white straight man crying you're doing something really right do you disagree I mean no I don't disagree at all I think when you get to that level where those four or five attributes go neatly in a row you're probably you've probably searching for other
things then an emotional an emotional vacuum you know by all means remind them they're human kind of there was like a moment of I'm feeling pretty good about myself for that binge takes all kinds of forms oh man I give him a heart that's how I with them always great it's always great I mean you know this you don't need me to spell
this out I mean I respected the pop music but I didn't understand the human that made those first albums I was somewhere else doing something else I was living in my world playing other and you were out here playing your and we weren't on a collision course by any stretch the imagination right you were living an incredible pop
star life going and changing it was a Mad Max meets the charts and I was over here I don't know probably interviewing Deftones you know but somehow about pods have crossed right and I'm so glad that they do every time like it's like you're such a great Brave artist so I just you know I just I just hope this album finds you in better form
for the next one and and by better form I don't necessarily mean like yay happy just wherever you need to be honestly I don't I don't think is we'll see what happens if the music's honest it will be what it would be I think that's like it's like writing a book and this is the chapter oh god listen to us we're just
like Rick Rubin the bad Broadway play I mean we're literally just I mean this is just terrible isn't it I mean there's a great white stripe song called I'm slowly turning into you and that is us oh god well I can like do so I was just gonna offer I can like baby bird you a beer before I go if we want to feel alive again but thank you [Music]