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Tetrogrammaton. [music] Tetro.
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0:17
I have a lovehate relationship in Vegas, you know, cuz I don't act like I used to. >> Yeah.
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>> You know, so then once we're in there playing, it's great.
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The sphere is not like any other gig.
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It's totally its own thing.
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>> No, it's its own thing.
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And the thing that I loved, you know, I didn't know how I was going to like it, but they did a tribute concert to Jimmy Buffett at the Hollywood Bowl and then I was there and Irving Hoff says, "I want you to go to to Vegas with me and watch the Eagles."
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And I went with him to see it.
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Hadn't been a country guy do it. You need to do it.
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I said, >> "Well, it looks great."
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you know, and so that's how that started.
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>> It's only been you two and Fish, right?
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Are those the only two other artists who've done it? >> And Dad and Company. >> Yeah.
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I I think no doubt just finished. >> Oh, really?
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>> But the stuff I've seen of Fish on there, you know, is just unbelievably creative. I loved it.
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But I I I really love the process of putting that all together >> for the creative brain. It is.
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It was a bit overwhelming at first, but man, when you're in there, it's very unique, you know, and for me who has built an audience, you know, part of my mojo is, okay, all night, right? Is human behavior. You can't help it.
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The people that are in there, that thing comes to life and everybody's going and then, oh, wait, wait, the band's down here.
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>> Even where the artist is positioned is a weird place to relate to the audience. It's no.
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But I mean, after a couple of shows, I was I was really able to reach across the fence and bring them over to us.
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>> And once I once I got comfortable with that, I I loved it because people that have lived with this music for a while >> Mhm.
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>> they come there and they experience it in a completely different way, in a completely different state of consciousness. And I loved it.
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I loved it so much that we're going back. Great.
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you know, and so and to to to stay in one spot when Look, I went on the road in November of 93.
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So to to stay in one spot was really great.
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>> I don't think anyone understands how hard life on the road is. >> I got so used to it.
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It's a beautiful addiction life on the road.
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Not to say I wasn't didn't get tired >> because but this has been a good break for me of for sure hearing the constant hum of a generator, you know, in my life. I needed a break.
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My my soul truly needed a break even though I wanted to stay connected and this allowed me to do that, you know. >> Beautiful.
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>> Yeah, it was really good for me.
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>> I'm glad you took the time to do it. >> Yeah.
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Because honestly, not everybody's afforded the opportunity to do it differently.
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You know, you get caught in this cycle and you and you just keep doing it.
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I've watched from afar a lot of my friends and people that I love and respect, that's how they start to hate what they do. >> Yeah.
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And they also forget who they are.
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>> They only know who they are on the road. >> Oh wow. That's [sighs] Yeah.
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I mean that there there's this saying you like and and I I think it happened with me a little bit like you almost become emotionally frozen in the moment that you became that your life changed or that you that your music started to happen or people started paying attention to you or you become semif on any level.
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You almost become emotionally frozen in that moment and stuck in it as a human being.
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I've tried really hard not to do that. >> Yeah.
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>> And my life out here and me, you and all of our mutual friends here really helped me as a human being to Okay. Wow.
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Now, you don't have to be that persona all the time.
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I spent my whole life trying to be that, you know, to get into this space to live up to that. >> Yes.
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>> And it's a madeup thing.
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And I also realized that one of the things that helped me and when people ask me for advice, they do now all of a sudden, [laughter] you know, so is to try to separate that as much as you can. >> Yeah.
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I got to a place where I realized that every decision that I ever made as an adult once I got on this path, every decision that I made was for the persona and not the person, >> the guy on stage. >> Yes.
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That's that's a weird thing to say.
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Like every life decision, no who I'm friends with or where I'm going to go on my off time, everything was on a schedule and it had to fit in the life of that persona on stage, not the person.
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And I realized that was making me really unhappy. >> Yeah.
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>> At some point it does.
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And and that's >> because the person needs some attention and love.
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>> Well, it needs nurturing. >> Yeah.
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>> And there's I mean, so there was years where we would, you know, be in a different town, which is great.
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This is not complaining at all. I am so grateful.
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But for the person, >> it's the reality of the situation.
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>> It's the reality of the situation.
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And for the person to be nurtured, I realized I was like, well, I was like I wasn't really unhappy, but I wasn't happy.
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It was just this existence where I it made me realize that every decision that I ever made was for the persona and not the person. >> Yeah.
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>> And that's changed a lot in the last four or five years.
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And I'm much happier, you know.
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And >> was it a decision?
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How did the change happen?
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>> I did a couple of journeys in plant medicine.
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>> First time in your life. >> Mhm.
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I was very scared of it, you know. I I went I don't know.
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But I think that I was just numb. I was just numb.
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nothing really, you know, back in the day, especially when you're on the road and there's really like, okay, you know that the next year is planned out for you, then there's no not stopping this.
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There was certain things that >> it's a lot of work. >> It's a lot of work.
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>> You have to sing every night.
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>> Every night and create. >> Yeah.
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>> And there would there was certain things that I would run to to make that would mask whatever that was.
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And we all know all those things. >> Yeah.
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I think we've had a conversation about this when I was in that.
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I've never been one to do drugs, you know, but uh whether it was alcohol, you know, partying after shows, women, whatever it was that I thought was making all that okay and music, right?
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Or writing songs or or or cutting a record that you're excited about.
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Always fed that thing that that made it okay when none of those things worked.
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and including music, which music is supposed to help you get out of that. Yeah. >> And creativity.
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>> When none of those things worked, I had this >> oh moment.
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>> And I had a really good friend of mine out here introduced me to what we're talking about.
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And some of the things that draw you to plant medicine or either inspiration or desperation.
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And mine was a little of both.
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And it it truly made me realize that I wasn't taking care of myself for 30 years.
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>> Tell me about the first experience.
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>> And it was something that has really changed my life. It really has.
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And it it it made me realize how just unavailable I've been.
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Not I mean to my parents, to friends, but to myself as an individual.
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And >> do you think it was just cuz you were driven and so driven focused on focused but also not wanting to fail and loving music so much and growing up how I grew up and I wanted to I I don't know there's there was this always this I I I'm not sure maybe it was because I was undersized as an athlete and I wanted to succeed but couldn't and I'm still working on the why [laughter] but but yeah I mean it made me within that space.
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It tore my heart open enough to where I could actually look in there and take a peek for the first time ever and it was amazing.
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And the songs I wrote, I mean, and all of a sudden I loved being on stage and I I was just available again as a person, as an artist, as a son, as a friend, as all of it. >> That's amazing.
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And so when I met you for the first time, I mean, I was I wasn't in that space yet.
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I was still >> felt like there was something you wanted to do that you didn't know how to get to. >> That's exactly right.
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>> That's what it felt like. >> Yeah. Yeah.
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And so I'm glad I went through that and glad I'm in that experience, you know, because that just made me realize how and when you're on the road and when you're in a different place every day and you got a lot of people in front of you and they're responding to your music and what you've given your whole adult life to. >> Yeah.
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>> You don't think about the idea of intimacy with someone else that much.
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>> You don't have to like because you're getting fed, you're getting stimulated.
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there's so much love coming at you.
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>> Like I never thought about having a child because music has always been my baby.
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But it got to a point also where I was like, hm, I realized within all of that, even though I could stand in front of 50,000 people and make love to them all night and that's that's intimate, that that's a level of intimacy, but I get to leave in two and a half hours. It's not real intimacy. >> Yeah. >> Right.
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So, the person that I was being constantly paralyzed me when it came to intimacy >> and I'm really happy I'm out of that space and I'm working on it. >> Great. >> Yeah.
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So, yeah, I'm much happier out there doing what I do now in the creative space. I feel really good. >> And songwriting. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.
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You know, like like I fell out a lot with songwriting because it just it didn't I don't know.
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It was >> You've also been doing it your whole life. >> My whole life. Yeah.
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>> And even something you love when you're scheduled to do it, it's a job. >> That's right.
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>> You know, it's like, yes, you love it.
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And if I don't show up, a lot of people are in trouble.
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>> Especially when you know that there are people building houses and having babies based on you not getting sick. >> Yeah.
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>> All of a sudden, it it's still fun, but it's a that's when you know it's work. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.
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>> We thank God for success.
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And it's not what you think it might be when you're a kid looking at it. >> That's exactly right.
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>> It's a tremendous amount of work.
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>> It's a tremendous amount of work. I love the work. >> I do.
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I think I'm more grateful now. >> Yeah.
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>> Cuz when it when it's all when you're in the middle of it and it's all happening.
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I mean, you're grateful, but I think at this point in my life, when I look back on what happened to me and the audience that we were able to build, it was rare.
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And I'm so just insanely thankful for that that this kid in college picked up a guitar and wrote a song about a girl.
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Ironically enough, I wrote a song.
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There was this girl in my persuasion class in college.
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And I was I I worked all semester trying to persuade her to pay attention to me and go out with me on any level.
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And I was like, "Okay, I've never written a song before, but I'm going to write a song for her."
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And it was back in the day when you had you had the recorder and you hit play and record on the tape recorder, right?
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>> That's cassette recorder. >> Yeah. Yeah. Cassette recorder.
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And I I wrote her a song and I gave it to her, but I made the mistake of it was a the persuasion class was on a Tuesday, Thursday class.
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And so I made the mistake of giving it giving it to her on Thursday, which meant I had to wait Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and Monday for any kind of response whatsoever. >> Yeah.
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So the Tuesday I just, you know, it was that time for me to walk in and get some sort of response from her.
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And look, all semester she sat right beside me.
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When I walked in, she was sitting in as far away from me in the back corner as she could possibly get.
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And I went, "Okay, this tells me two things.
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My songs have to get a lot better."
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And this was the first time that I was going to taste what I was going to taste a lot of in the future was the first taste of rejection in the music business. >> Yeah.
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>> But for some reason it didn't bother me.
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I said, "Okay, you got to get better."
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>> Do you remember the song?
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>> Her name was Amy and I can't remember the song. >> Okay.
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>> But it was it was >> I'd love to hear it if you >> Oh my god.
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I don't even have any I'd love to hear it. >> Yeah.
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Wouldn't it be [laughter] great?
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>> It would be great to hear it.
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But that was the first song I ever wrote.
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I was a I was a sophomore in college at East Tennessee State University.
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That's where this whole creative >> You had no plans of becoming a singer or >> No.
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Well, I was in college and Rick, I was playing um at a Mexican restaurant called Chucky's Trading Post.
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It was on this big river where people Have you ever been whitewater rafting? >> Okay.
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Well, at some point they'll stop and you'll get off and have lunch or whatever.
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Well, I was playing at a Mexican restaurant halfway down this river called the Null Chucky River and people would get off and they would drink some beers and whatever and I would be the guy up there playing and that's the first place I ever felt any kind of >> a job or more like the beginning of your career.
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I didn't know it was going to be this obviously, you know, but it was more me in college and I was playing there and then all of a sudden there was a couple of bars on at at ETSU, what's called the Tree Streets and there was a place called Quarterback's Barbecue.
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I played there three nights a week and at Chuckies and then in Johnson City I kind of graduated.
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There was a couple of guys that when I I joined a bluegrass band at ETSU.
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I mean, it was like a real class and it's still one of the only classes in the country where you can take bluegrass music as a accredited class and it was great and that's the first time I learned how to play with a band.
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And there's a place still today in Johnson City called the Down Home.
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And the Down Home, every bluegrass band in the world plays there.
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I mean, I've seen James Taylor there, Allison Krauss, Union Station.
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I mean, all these people played there.
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And every Wednesday night they had a thing called the open hoot, which means you could sign up for 30 minutes and get up and do anything.
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And it's a place where you drink beer and have chips and salsa and you watch people get up for 30 minutes and play.
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And me and a guy named Marcus Smith and another guy named Shawn Lane, we would get up every Wednesday night and played for 30 minutes and we'd play songs.
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We wrote, you know, by that time I was writing a few songs and some bluegrass songs and and that's where this started.
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But the the creative part of it was for that girl in my persuasion class.
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And then after that, it just kind of I went, "Oh, wow."
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Like, you know, it wasn't all the time because I didn't know this was going to be my life, but it was just kind of a a slow burn and like this seed that was that was sown, you know, in college.
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And that might be a familiar story.
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I would imagine that a lot of guys who started playing guitar was to impress a girl at some point.
15:42
Maybe [laughter] a lot of my friends that I know that do this, that's that's I have that in common with them.
15:47
But but that's how it started for me.
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18:12
>> When you started writing, was it always with a guitar? >> Yeah.
18:15
The music is what would start it and then you'd start singing to that. >> Yeah.
18:19
I would always have stuff written down. I would have notebooks.
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It's just stuff, you know.
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I didn't know what they meant.
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And then eventually I would I would, you know, put something with it and and then every now and then I would be had to have enough courage up there to play an original song, you know, in the middle of all the covers of My Heroes and stuff.
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And you know, >> what would have been the covers you would have been playing back then?
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Oh, well, I would have played Tom Petty.
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I would I would play Johnny Cash.
18:47
I would play Jimmy Buffett. I would play Alabama.
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I would play Leonard Skinnard.
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I would just I had so much music swirling around in my head growing up in East Tennessee because we heard it was it was unlike the way it is today.
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Today, we can listen to anything anytime we want, wherever we want to. Mhm.
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>> In East Tennessee, you heard what was fed to you either on terrestrial radio or at church or at school or you'd hear it at the ballpark.
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But growing up, I I loved Van Halen.
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I had Steve Miller's greatest hits in my car on the way to school and on the way back. I loved that music. I had Tom Petty. I had Leonard Skinnard. I had AC/DC.
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I loved I still love that music. It was rock music.
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what's now known as classic rock, but I had the Eagles. I had I don't know. I had Montrose.
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I knew Sammy Hagar Mantros. >> Yeah.
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>> And then on his solo stuff. I love that. I love Joel Walsh.
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>> But then again, I had this country base because I me and my mom lived with my grandparents while my stepfather was in Vietnam.
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So, I heard all the country stuff.
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I got all the church stuff twice a week because in in high school and as a kid, I didn't understand the genius of Bruce Springsteen or Bob Marley, right?
20:08
But when you go to college and you start writing your own songs and you're all of a sudden up there playing, you realize, wow, this is what Bruce was doing was really great.
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And the first time I really listened to one of his records was the Tunnel of Love album.
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And there was a song on that record called One Step Up and Two Steps Back that I had the balls enough to record on my record.
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I mean, looking back, I probably shouldn't have done it, but I did, thinking I could bring something new to you, whatever. But I did.
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And I sent it to Bruce and he wrote me this unbelievable letter back. >> What' he say?
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>> And I could tell that he that he listened.
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I mean, he really listened.
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And he said he knew his song was in good hands before he heard it.
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and he always felt like that the Tunnel of Love album had a country soul to it. >> Beautiful.
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>> And it was really great that I decided to do that.
20:58
And I'm not saying that we wish each other a merry Christmas every year, right? But we're friends.
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We've been friends since then.
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[laughter] You know what I mean? >> Yeah.
21:08
And you brought his song to a different audience.
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>> To a different audience, >> which is beautiful. >> Yeah.
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And the first time I saw that, right, and heard that in college, it just created space for me and my dream. I didn't know.
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I didn't know what the dream was yet.
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>> It's ironic that I'm holding this guitar, but in high school, I wanted to be an athlete.
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And so, I went to North Carolina at the University of North Carolina.
21:32
Their basketball coach is named Dean Smith.
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Dean Smith had a basketball camp for youth kids every year.
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And I went to it and we were in this big cafeteria, you know, in between games and whatever.
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And I remember we were drinking Gatorade and eating a bunch of fruit and it was just this massive cafeteria on campus.
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And they had a TV and I knew about MTV, but I didn't have it at my mom and my grandmother's house.
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I had it at my dad's when I go visit my father every other weekend.
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I would see MTV and ESPN on cable.
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So I knew of MTV, but I didn't know that much about it.
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When I was at Dean Smith's basketball camp, I saw Tom Petty's video where he had the the top hat. >> Yeah.
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>> Don't come around here no more. >> Yeah.
22:20
>> And I remember just staring at it and for some reason paying attention to the guitars and the way it was recorded and and thinking, "Wow, I this is so different, you know, looking back on when some of this dream started, you know, and not really knowing what it meant."
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That's one of those moments because that also created space for me. >> Yeah.
22:41
>> It's funny because I think that there are moments when we're young and we don't even know it at the time, right?
22:49
That seemed really insignificant because that moment I saw that and it passed. >> Yeah.
22:54
>> That moment passed and I went on to shoot free throws and I went on back home and but it I kept it back here. >> Yeah.
23:00
It just showed you a possibility of something different because if you think about bands before that video, you probably thought about >> what the Beatles looked like or what AC/DC looked like.
23:08
And that video wasn't like that. >> No.
23:11
But not only but the the sound was like that sound.
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I know that it was rock on MTV, but the accent, the music, it spoke to me. >> Yeah.
23:22
>> In ways that some other things didn't.
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>> So So in college, I would be playing that when I got to when I got guitar in my hand. I would be playing that.
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I would be playing Leonard Skinnard.
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I would be playing everything.
23:32
But it was always I I was always drawn to singer songwriters like Buffett and Steve Miller and and and especially when I got older, Bruce, the people that did that were the people that I was really drawn to.
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>> And still am to this day.
23:49
>> And then early on you had a whole series of hit records before you really became who you are. Is that correct? >> Yeah.
23:56
I mean, I [laughter] it was really strange. It's It still is.
24:00
Like, I was like, when I first moved to Nashville, I got a publishing deal with Akuff Rose Publishing pretty quickly.
24:08
And then Phil Walden, who was had Capricorn Records, was my first record label. He's the first person. >> I didn't know that. >> Yeah.
24:17
Phil Walden signed me in 1993.
24:22
So, I was on the label with like Government Mule.
24:27
>> I was Almond Brothers.
24:27
They were doing a record on Hank Jr.
24:29
They were doing a record on Leonard Skinnard.
24:31
This blues guy from Austin named Ian Moore.
24:33
They were doing it with Colonel Bruce Hampton.
24:38
And >> yeah, and 311 at that time was on the label and me.
24:43
So, I was It was really an echclectic interesting time for me. >> Yeah.
24:49
It also suited your taste though because you liked a lot of rock.
24:53
>> I love that music so much, you know, and I was always drawn to lyrics with hard drums and and rhythmic guitars always.
25:05
>> But that was my first record label, but we didn't have any hits on that.
25:08
But it was a lot like for me, and I didn't realize it at the time, but it was a lot like being in AAA baseball. I was learning. I was on the road.
25:16
Looking back, it was just a huge educational experience. We had a lot of fun.
25:21
We laughed a lot and it was it was great.
25:27
You know, >> you open for a lot of artists.
25:29
>> I was opening for a lot of country artist. Yeah.
25:32
>> I was I went out there with Alabama, which was great because one of my the first concerts I ever saw was was them in a field about 8 miles from my house.
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>> And all of a sudden, I'm out on the road with these guys. >> So cool. >> It was just so cool. >> Yeah.
25:45
And honestly, I looked at my band and I said, "We made it, [laughter] >> right?"
25:51
>> Because you got to do it.
25:51
You got to make music and >> I was doing it. >> Yeah.
25:54
>> I was not on a stool at East Tennessee State playing foras. >> Yeah.
25:58
And you didn't have 30 minutes at the open mic night. >> That's right.
26:01
I wasn't at open hoot in Johnson City.
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I was I was out there and all of a sudden we started having some hit records, but nobody knew.
26:08
>> What was the first hit?
26:08
The first hit was a song was a ballad called When I Closed My Eyes and that was my first one.
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See, I had I had I had a 17th song, Greatest Hits album, and nobody knew who I was.
26:23
Like, they knew the songs.
26:23
I >> The songs were hits, but >> the songs were hits, but they were disposable hits.
26:30
>> Remember the first time you heard yourself on the radio? >> Yes.
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I was with my manager Dale Morris at the time who managed Alabama and he lived down in Florida in you know in the winter and I was down visiting him and he loved to show off his boat.
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So we'd pull into some yacht club and we're sitting there with him and some of his buddies I'd never met and Dale had the stereo turned up and I've always thought that Dale somehow manipulated this so I would hear it on the radio. You know what I mean?
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But whatever reason, I heard it and I went, "Damn, that sounds familiar."
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And I went, "Oh my god, that's my record."
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And I jumped up out of the table, went to the boat, and turned it up so the whole yacht club could hear it.
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[laughter] >> It was great.
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>> It's an unbelievable feeling. Unbelievable. Believe it.
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>> No, because all of a sudden, that's not Jackson Brown on the radio. That's me. >> Yeah. You're in the club. >> Yeah. It's Wow. This is great.
27:19
I still get that feeling. >> Yeah.
27:22
It's such a great feeling. >> I still get it.
27:24
But there was a moment where I had 17 of those and nobody knew who I was.
27:29
I would go play a state fair or a club or whatever and they would go, "Oh, that's the guy that sings that song." >> Mhm.
27:36
>> And oh, that's the guy that sings that song and that song.
27:37
It wasn't until 2002 when we released the No Shoes, No Shirt, No Problems album.
27:43
And that's when it all took off.
27:47
>> How many years in was that? >> 13 years. >> 13 years. It's a long time. >> Long time.
27:51
You know, I I was making records, Rick, to fit a formula in a genre.
27:56
That was the the definition of success.
27:59
And the reason people didn't know who I was because there was a lot of people singing the same songs, mixing their records the same way, dressing the same way.
28:07
And I was just trying to fit that formula.
28:09
I was in survival mode for a long time. >> Yeah. Trying to fit in.
28:14
>> Trying to fit in and just trying to >> And you succeeded at doing that.
28:18
>> I succeeded at doing that.
28:18
But during the time that I released my greatest hits record that had all the radio hits on it, >> I had about two and a half years of nothing of not releasing music and it afforded me the time to really take my time and it was also a period of my life where >> I was changing.
28:38
>> What do you think allowed that to happen?
28:39
I was in well I went to the Virgin Islands to um to shoot a video for one of those disposable songs and then I spent a lot of time down there and all of a sudden I had a a different a completely different family there and a group of friends that I didn't have anywhere else in the world.
28:58
>> They all had different religious beliefs.
28:59
They all had different political beliefs.
29:00
They all grew up nine times out of 10 they were from New England.
29:04
And after a three or four years of that, I went, "Wow," you know, >> not only could I make music for the people that I've been making it for, which fit in this formulaic style that I was doing, this narrow thing, >> I realized, oh, I can make music for these people, too.
29:23
>> And all of a sudden, the idea of who I've become, Kenny Chesn, that's where it all started to change.
29:29
And it changed stylistically. It changed musically.
29:32
It changed emotionally, mentally.
29:34
All of a sudden, my heart was more open to new experiences, to new people, to different way of mixing my record to everything.
29:44
And that's where it all changed.
29:47
>> It's interesting how just being in a different place is enough to just >> Yeah. >> open your mind.
29:53
>> Had I not done that, had I not met all those people, I would probably still be out there doing at some level, you know, and >> Yeah.
30:00
But I would never have built an audience that was as universal of an audience that we did because I I think that >> just met different kinds of people >> just because you were exposed to different kinds of people who would who thought differently who truly did I mean like in the nature of the business and life today with social
30:20
media and everything I don't know if you gave me that same scenario today I'm not sure that my heart would be as open and I would be is open to new experiences and new people because one of the negative things about being at this place in my life is that I don't meet a lot of new people and I I don't like that. I don't let myself I I'm not as
30:40
I don't let myself I I'm not as open as I was going to the Virgin Islands in the way I'm talking about now. >> Yeah.
30:48
>> And I wish I was but >> there's also something about island life that's really open and free. >> Yes.
30:53
If you meet someone like in Hawaii or whatever, there's something about a level of acceptance. >> Yeah.
31:03
>> And you feel closer to them than you would if you met them anywhere else.
31:06
>> There's a connection to nature that's inherent in us. >> Yeah. That's very primal.
31:12
>> That they keep and that many of us have lost growing up in industrialized places. >> Yeah. Yeah.
31:19
Because I was so on fire when I when I went down there.
31:22
I mean, before I made the No Shoes album, when my life really changed, I was so curious. >> Yeah.
31:28
>> As a human and I was on fire with creativity and I knew my life was changing and I just didn't know where it was going to take me, but I was just I said, "Come on, bring it on." It was great, right? >> Such a great feeling. >> So, yeah.
31:42
And I don't I mean, I get that. I get still get that.
31:44
I don't say I don't, but it's >> first time is different though because when it's a new experience, it's amplified in some way. >> Yeah.
31:51
And when you've been doing this for a while, you run it.
31:53
Your first gets smaller, which is fine. >> Yeah. Yeah.
31:57
It's just the nature of life, I think. >> Yeah. That's true, too.
31:59
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33:42
Where would you say songs come from? Wow.
33:48
For me, it's just I get inspiration from I it's just other people, but creativity for me is one of the best gifts.
33:59
The thing I love about creativity and where songs come from, wherever they come from, like you take something and you give the world something today that didn't exist yesterday.
34:12
>> It's the best feeling in the world.
34:13
>> It's the best feeling ever.
34:13
And to know, it's almost like you have the answer to the life's question that nobody else knows. You know what I mean?
34:20
It's like you have a secret.
34:21
Like you and I could write a song right now and we would only us would know that it exists in the world until it comes out. I love that.
34:29
And before that, it doesn't exist.
34:30
>> And before that, after there's a song you can sing, it's amazing.
34:34
>> Yeah, that's the thing that always I'm not comparing creativity to golf cuz I don't I don't love golf. I don't play.
34:40
But when I did play golf, it's like you spend all day out there hitting shitty balls.
34:45
And then you hit one that's perfect.
34:47
That's the thing that keeps you coming back. >> Yeah.
34:50
>> I've always said writing songs was a lot like fishing.
34:51
You can go out there one day and not get anything, but there's that one day where it's just magic. It's not in our control. >> That's right. >> Yeah.
34:59
We're at the mercy of whatever >> whatever it is, you know.
35:02
So that's where songs come from for me.
35:03
Whatever that source is, you know, and these, you know, these people go on writing camps. I get that.
35:09
And you know that, okay, okay, we're going to make an appointment to write a song. I get that.
35:12
But the best songs come when they're lived.
35:18
>> The writing camp sounds more like your earlier career.
35:21
>> That's exactly of the songs that fit.
35:24
Well, I can tell you that we were on the road. I forgot. I think it was 2006.
35:29
And we were playing Ohio State's basketball arena. And we had a night off. So, we were there early.
35:34
On that night off, Van Halen was playing the same arena.
35:38
And Louis Msina, who had worked a lot with Van Halen and with Sammy especially, was promoting my tour and still is.
35:47
But I said, "Lou, I got to meet Sammy Hagar."
35:50
So we went he they wor, you know, worked it out for me and the band.
35:54
All of a sudden, boom, we go backstage and there's Eddie without a shirt, you know, with hair, you know, doing his stuff.
36:00
And and here comes here comes Sammy Hagar in this yellow jumpsuit and his red shoes and his blonde hair.
36:07
And it was as if I had known him my whole life.
36:11
And you take my real manager and I, David Farmer, we were we were kids.
36:15
We were in his garage with pool sticks acting like they were guitars listening to mantros.
36:20
And then here comes that guy.
36:22
So me and Sammy became pretty instant friends.
36:25
And then he invited me to come play his birthday party he has every year in Cabo.
36:29
And I said, "Okay, we're coming."
36:32
So we play we do I think we play three and a half hours. Wow.
36:36
And then there was a club next to it called Squid Row and me and the band went to that.
36:43
Well, when I was in that club, I I just felt restless.
36:45
I felt uneasy for some reason.
36:48
Everybody was having fun and I I was looking around at all a lot of the guys in my band and some of the guys that I grew up with.
36:55
And I don't know why I had this feeling, but I was going, you know, they've all got families and they've all got their lives they're building.
37:00
And I started to not feel bad about for myself or whatever.
37:06
I said, "That's not that I'm not doing that."
37:07
And and I I just kept feeling like I needed to leave that club.
37:13
And I left the club and I went to the house that Sammy got us overlooking the the lights of Cabo and I pulled out a notepad and I pulled my guitar out of the case and I sat out.
37:24
I can still see the table.
37:24
It was a glass a round glass table at the pool deck and I was out there by myself trying to figure out what it was I was feeling.
37:32
I was 36 and I said I don't have to figure all this out right now.
37:38
Whatever you feel in the club, you don't you know it's just okay.
37:40
it's okay to play at Sammy Hagar's birthday party and this be what you're doing right now.
37:44
And I just started writing down everything I was feeling.
37:49
And that's where I wrote Beer in Mexico.
37:51
I wrote it completely by myself in about a three-hour period.
37:54
And by the time the band got back to the house that Sammy got us, that song was almost done.
38:00
And that's an example of where songs come from. Yeah. >> It's lived. >> Can you play it?
38:04
Just like [music] sit right here and have another [singing] beer in Mexico. Do my best.
38:14
Waste [music] another day.
38:21
Sit right here and have another [music] beer in Mexico.
38:27
Let the warm [singing] air melt these blues away.
38:36
It's where I started pushing the choruses, too.
38:37
[laughter] I didn't really push until the, you know, [music] I'm a sucker for pushing, but you know, sun comes, sun comes up, the sun sinks down, and I've seen them both in this tourist town.
38:47
Up for days in a rage, just trying to search my soul for all the answers and the reasons why I'm at these crossroads in my life and really don't know which way to go.
38:56
So, I'll just sit right here, have another beer in Mexico. Yeah.
39:03
>> You know, so that's an example of I would have never have written that song.
39:08
Let's just say that you called me one day and hey, let's write a song.
39:11
Here's we're going to make an appointment and then we're going to sit in a room.
39:14
>> Wouldn't it happen like that?
39:15
>> I would never have written it.
39:16
>> It was based on the experience and hearing you tell the story.
39:18
I hear the song as being therapeutic. >> Yes.
39:24
>> In that moment, >> no question.
39:25
There were some years that, you know, some less generous critics, whatever, just looked at that title and went, "Oh, this is just a KHS party song." Just Yeah, whatever.
39:38
>> But it was a true portrait of my soul at the time. >> Yeah.
39:41
>> You know, it really was.
39:42
>> It feels so personal in the moment, but other people feel like that, too.
39:44
And that's why it translates. We all have feelings.
39:48
Turns out, [laughter] >> as it turns out, we all have feelings. Yeah.
39:53
You know, we spend all this time trying to find commonality. Yeah.
39:56
>> And sometime sometimes we make it harder than it has to be, you know, because if it just songs come from lived experiences. >> Yeah.
40:04
>> And I have written songs where, you know, it's been an appointment and some of them made my record, some have been hits, but real commonality. It's hard.
40:13
>> Do you still spend much time in the Virgin Islands?
40:15
>> Not as much as I used to some.
40:18
>> I still love it, but you know, with social media, a lot of stuff changes.
40:22
You know, it's just like h what used to be a place of real peace. >> Yeah. >> It's not the same.
40:25
I still I I I take what I want from it. >> Yeah. >> If that makes sense.
40:29
>> Are you [snorts] writing songs all the time? >> Not all the time.
40:32
I wrote some a little bit in Vegas because I was still, but it's really hard for me to ride on the road. >> Mhm.
40:40
>> I have to be off that out of that space to really write.
40:44
You know, some people can do it. I I can't. I I used to could. Yeah.
40:49
>> I mean, I wrote a couple of songs on the road.
40:50
Uh, but I have to be out of that space and more in a in a quieter space for me.
40:55
>> Also, your shows are very I'll just say high energy. >> Yeah.
41:01
>> I don't know if the high energy lends itself to the going inside and feeling what you need to feel to write. >> Yeah.
41:08
And when you're like and you wake up the next day and you I I go to the gym and next thing you know it's 2:00 in the afternoon and next thing you know it's just I >> a lot of energy is being >> this anticipation which I love that energy.
41:20
I'm so thankful for my adult life because it's live music is one of the most amazing things we have in our in in our world you know >> and to be able to be a person that gets to do that that gets to give the world that.
41:33
>> But the thing I love about it is that no two nights are ever the same. Yeah. >> Ever. No.
41:37
I eat I I eat really early when I'm on the road.
41:40
I'll eat around 4:30 and then I'll I lay down for a couple hours and then I you know you got to say hi to who you got to say hi to. >> Yeah.
41:49
>> And then the next thing you know it's showtime.
41:50
Those things are the same.
41:50
But every night is different.
41:52
The shared experience >> Yeah.
41:55
>> is what I love so much.
41:57
>> How did the live show develop from the early days when you were writing the songs to fit in? >> Yeah. >> To what it's become.
42:03
Was there like a moment when it changed?
42:07
>> Well, I mean, when my song Young came out, that was the first single off the No Shoes album, that just took us to a different place.
42:14
Now, had that been my first single, things wouldn't have changed that much.
42:18
But I had, remember, I had 17 hit records >> and 13 years >> out of in 13 years of building a fan base.
42:25
But so when Young hit and then everything else came, we already had a show. >> Yeah.
42:31
We already had recognizable music and people were coming to the show to hear Young, but they went, "Oh my god, he's got two hours of material." And so, Rick, it was on.
42:43
>> Yeah, >> it was everything that we did was based around the show.
42:46
And that goes back to what I was saying earlier.
42:48
I couldn't help but feed the persona. I couldn't stop it.
42:53
And all of us, everything we did, every morning we woke up was to feed that energy. And I'm glad we did.
42:57
I mean, it's it's fantastic, but I'm learning now that >> that I got to take care of the person, too.
43:07
So, >> you also want to be able to do it for a long time.
43:10
And >> right, >> the thing that stops that is not taking care of the person. >> That's exactly right. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.
43:16
So, you know, I I'm very particular about what I put into my body now.
43:19
I'm very particular honestly about who I hang out with because >> energetically >> energetically uh it's just I want to be available to everyone.
43:28
But so if you give energy to people that drain that energy for everyone else, it's I'm learning how to navigate some of that.
43:38
>> How would you say your relationship to music has changed over the course of your life?
43:43
>> I think that my first producer was Barry Beckett.
43:48
Barry Beckett produced my Capricorn record and my first couple of records after that and I played in so many clubs that I I just played hard and sang hard, you know, because of the nature of it. >> Mhm.
44:02
>> And I got into the studio and I was singing hard in the mic and I one of the things that I take with me and I still I mean, man, I miss Barry, you know, and and one of the things I take with me is Barry came into the vocal booth one night and he He goes, "I want you to think of, you know, you're you're doing it right."
44:23
He goes, "But I want you to think about the world out there hearing this song."
44:26
He goes, "How do you want them to feel hearing this song?"
44:28
He goes, "I want you to do what you're doing, but I want you to back off the mic, Sama, and I want you to put a smile on it."
44:33
And I've tried to infuse that moment into all of my music.
44:42
Now, I didn't know how to do it.
44:45
like I was I I did it, you know, especially on those early songs.
44:47
But I think for me having Barry Beckett in my life early, by the way, have you ever seen the um the Rick Hall documentary muscle shows thing?
44:57
And like Barry's Barry Becket was one of those players. Yeah.
45:01
>> You know, >> and I mean I wept because making music in the studio has been my whole adult life.
45:07
>> This console came from that studio.
45:07
This was the original Muscle Show console. >> That's unbelievable.
45:11
So my relationship with that was was un was was really intense.
45:16
But for me, I mean, it's it's been a struggle because I do like to make records that feed that energy we were talking about on stage. >> Yeah.
45:28
>> And the machine of it all.
45:28
But I'm also I've made a lot of records that I wrote on my boat that's very acoustic and and over here, which early on confused my audience.
45:38
We thought you were this guy, but you're this guy. I'm Well, I'm both.
45:42
It's just another part of me >> and it makes a two and a half hour show more interesting if it's all the same it gets boring no matter what it is.
45:47
gets boring no matter what it is. So my relationship with that and I don't know I don't know when that kind of records coming you know it's it's always in the works but creatively you know I sometimes I've I've learning not to but early on I edited myself to a fault
46:04
always thinking about okay the live show what's this going to what's this going to mean how are people out there in the grass in the amphitheaters going to respond to this not the season ticket holders the grass [snorts] so I thought about that all all the time and that can >> that can edit your relationship with your music some. >> Yeah. It's just a limitation of like >> Yeah.
46:24
It's just a limitation of like they all have to do this one thing. >> Yes.
46:28
So, when I made my B as you are album, I didn't know I was making the record at the time, but it's still one of my favorite records I ever made because I wrote it over a 5-year period, not for any album cycle.
46:39
I was just writing my experiences and I was writing about characters I've met down in the islands and their stories and and none of those songs, none of them fit on >> any of the other albums.
46:52
>> Any of the other albums because Joe Galante heard that and he goes, "No, no, right.
46:57
That doesn't fit with all the stuff. They only fit together."
46:58
And so that became the Be as You Are was called Songs from an old blue chair.
47:05
But that was a true portrait of my soul, which is a whole other relationship with my music.
47:11
>> You want to play one of those? >> Sure.
47:12
I was in the Virgin Islands New Year's Eve.
47:15
This was what's the guy that predicted the end of the world 2000? Nostradamus. What?
47:20
And that like you say like, you know, the world's going to end in the year 2000.
47:23
So everybody was kind of antsy, right? >> Y2K. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
47:27
It was like and um man I was really drunk on on the beach one night and I I was sitting in this old blue chair and I had a one of those turvis tumbler cuffs about that tall full of rum and coke and it was probably 2:00 in the morning and I was on the beach and I put that glass between my between my legs and lay back and I fell asleep and I woke up with the sun coming right over Tortola right and have had mosquito bites everywhere.
47:57
I went back to the house.
48:00
I slept a couple hours and I got up and started writing this song.
48:03
And I again, I would have never written something like this unless it was lived. So, see you. Been a minute.
48:10
There's a blue rocking chair sitting in the sand.
48:21
The weather by the storms and welloiled hands.
48:29
It sways back and forth with the help of the wind and seems to always be there like an old trusted friend.
48:44
I've read a lot of books, wrote a few songs, looked at my life, where it's going, where it's gone.
48:50
[music] I've seen the world through a bus windshield, but nothing compares [music] to the way that I [singing] see to the way that I see it.
49:06
to the way that I see it when I sit in that old blue chair.
49:13
[laughter] >> It's beautiful.
49:15
>> So, >> beautiful song.
49:17
>> So, that but that's not hammered down on stage, Kenny Chzn.
49:19
That's a whole other relationship in a long answer.
49:24
That's a whole other side to my relationship with my music.
49:26
And I love that side >> for sure.
49:30
>> But if you're playing SoFi Stadium in LA, I don't know that you pull old blue chair out.
49:34
You might >> you might in the middle you might. >> It's quick though.
49:38
I mean >> get a little stage in the middle of the audience. It's a good vibe. >> Yeah.
49:43
So my my the relationship with my music is a little like I love being that person but I also love being the other person.
49:50
So I've had numerous people ask me if I'm ever going to do just a show of that kind of stuff. And I might. >> Yeah.
49:58
>> You know I think it would be really great.
50:00
I mean I saw one year the Stones did it and I thought it was really brilliant.
50:04
Not that I would steal from them, but I thought the idea was great.
50:08
In the same calendar year, they did clubs, they did theaters, they did arenas, and they did stadiums all in the same year.
50:14
And I would imagine that every one of those shows in those environments were different. >> Totally different.
50:19
>> And I just I love that idea.
50:19
And I think I might I'm going to go ahead and apologize to the guys.
50:25
>> It's such a cool idea.
50:25
It's [clears throat] >> But you have to have a a scope of a catalog to do to pull that to pull that off.
50:30
But maybe we'll do that one day.
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52:11
>> You said you went to church growing up. >> Yeah.
52:13
>> How did that influence your life?
52:15
>> Well, my my grandmother was very religious.
52:18
We grew up in an area where we had just in the nature of our community, we leaned on certain things.
52:23
We had school, we had sports, we had our friends, and we had church.
52:27
And I mean, I went to vacation Bible school every summer.
52:33
But it was the first time in church that I heard three-part harmony. >> Yeah.
52:39
>> And I went, "Wow, what's that? This is great."
52:43
You know, one of my first memories of hearing that and how connected I was to it.
52:48
You know, I didn't know I was going to be this disconnected to it, but but it was the first time that I heard music that made me feel something. Yeah.
52:56
>> I didn't know what it was. >> It seems like magic. >> Yeah.
52:59
And I think as a as a child, you're so impressionable >> and things you experience young sets such an an emotional blueprint for the rest of your life. >> Yeah.
53:11
>> Like I don't have kids, but I always said there there's a singer songwriter that played in Jimmy Buffett's band. His name is Mac Mini.
53:16
Max just my favorite singer songwriter ever and he has this amazing voice.
53:22
He's a great great player and I've written a lot of songs with him.
53:26
But I always I always said because of what I'm talking about that if I ever had a child now of course the mother would have to be okay with this.
53:33
Um but I would have want Mac in the delivery room because the first thing I want that child to hear was Mac Mini playing music and his voice singing in the room. Wow.
53:47
>> Because it sets such an emotional blueprint.
53:50
Like if you're born into chaos, you're probably going to have chaos in your life.
53:54
If you're born into peace and positive energy, then it it just sets an such a different tone.
54:01
>> It's also something that happens when people are singing devotion.
54:07
It's got a different energy to it.
54:09
>> It's got a different energy to it. >> It goes through you. >> Yes. Yeah.
54:11
And and I'm very spiritual.
54:11
I don't think you can do what I do and not be spiritual.
54:16
My relationship with religion has changed. >> Yeah.
54:20
>> But it was in church that that I was first touched by music that said something.
54:27
It spoke to me where it wasn't so right here.
54:29
All of a sudden, you heard the bottom third and the top third.
54:32
It goes ah [laughter] >> that's that's beautiful, right?
54:36
But I was in church a lot.
54:39
You know, you're taught a certain way as a kid and we I grew up Southern Baptist >> and you're taught this is the way, everything else is wrong.
54:51
>> Then you go on the road and you have 120 employees all from like a lot like the Virgin Islands.
54:56
You you meet this this melting pot is it's this really eclectic group of people that you all of a sudden living life with.
55:03
And that and like I said when I was talking about the Virgin Islands all with different political beliefs, religious beliefs, you know, there's there's people from all over that have traveled much different journeys to be on the road with you going down together. >> Yeah.
55:17
>> Well, over a period of a lot of summers, you get to know and love these people.
55:23
>> It's like, okay, what if something happened and we were all killed the same night?
55:27
Am I to believe that they're going to go to hell because they have the wrong religion?
55:33
No, that's my point on religion.
55:35
[laughter] So that's it's crazy like where I grew up within the same county there were churches fighting other churches because they believed differently and within the same 20 miles.
55:45
I was like >> and two Christian churches that just had slightly different beliefs. >> Slightly. >> Yeah. Yeah.
55:52
Different interpretation.
55:53
>> We couldn't hang with those kids at school.
55:54
We couldn't like ah >> see I don't think that's how it was originally, in my opinion designed.
55:59
I think there's something much bigger than all of that that is full of positive energy, light, and love.
56:05
And I want to believe in that.
56:09
And I I have a whole other whole other thing.
56:11
But with people, well, I don't like TV preachers. >> None. >> I don't know.
56:18
I just think like they've all like especially when physical product was a big deal.
56:22
[laughter] >> You know what I mean?
56:25
Maybe they have >> they were selling something. >> Yeah.
56:28
They're all like they're making millions of dollars off the off the insecurities of all these people now.
56:33
You buy my DVD and we're we're going to change you. >> I don't know. I mean, it's good.
56:36
I mean, God bless them, I guess.
56:38
I mean, >> but I always felt really weird about that.
56:42
>> Would you say if you didn't have your church upbringing, you wouldn't be the same person, >> but there's that. So, there's something.
56:53
>> So, it served you in your life.
56:53
It it's still serving me, I guess, because my parents, my grandparents, it keeps you from being rudderless, >> and I'm I'm thankful for that. >> Yeah. >> But I don't know.
57:04
I guess I've always had a problem, especially in my adult life and especially after I went on the road and traveled the world and met all these wonderful people full of love and light.
57:16
>> They all can't be bad. >> No.
57:17
And I would have never have met Rick Rubin had I not expanded my life, you know, and and been in the music business.
57:25
And I would have never met Barry Becket.
57:27
I don't I don't know Barry Beckett's religious affiliation at all. Yeah.
57:32
>> We I didn't we didn't care. We made music together. We loved each other. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, I don't know.
57:35
I think what they're selling is certainty.
57:39
>> And I'm in the corner of I don't really know, [laughter] >> right?
57:43
>> I just know I I feel I know love when I see it and feel it.
57:47
How would you describe the spiritual side of your music?
57:54
>> I think first of all, I mean, early on you had to find that part of yourself.
58:00
Like for me, I I it was all just so formulaic, right?
58:03
But the song I just played, you old blue chair, that is a that was that came from the heart.
58:07
That came from a lived experience. >> Yeah.
58:10
I think there has to be to take your audience down or to build one or to connect on any level.
58:16
There has to be some sort of commonality somewhere along the way >> and you have to dig in a little deeper.
58:23
It can't all just be in Mexico.
58:23
Even though that was a >> the deeper song that it than the poster says, but I would like to think there's a spiritual side to to a lot of it.
58:33
Well, I imagine to connect to that many people, there has to be something going on bigger than the human Kenny. >> Yes.
58:41
>> There's something bigger happening in that room, >> right?
58:44
I would like to think that the music that we've made over the years that it had a positive impact on our life.
58:52
And you can tell, Rick, when people come to our shows that something in there touched them somewhere aside from Yeah. This is really loud.
59:00
We feel the kick drum coming through our chest. This is really fun.
59:07
>> It has to be something more than that.
59:09
>> And I'm not sure which songs did that honestly.
59:13
>> But I can tell when I'm looking out into the audience that this has meant something more to them than just hearing it on the radio.
59:19
I mean, they've lived with it.
59:20
And there's a spiritual part of that that I never knew existed at East Tennessee State when I was in the Bluegrass band or my first 13 years on the road. It's a communion. >> Yes.
59:33
There's a a connective tissue that I would like to think that is spiritual in nature. >> Yeah.
59:39
>> Like a common thing they all felt.
59:41
>> Tell me about how you become the person you are on stage.
59:45
Does it happen automatically or do you have to do something to get into that state?
59:51
>> I know people that it takes for them to go on stage at 9:00.
59:54
They have to start getting ready at 2:00 in the afternoon.
59:58
And I don't know how to explain this, but I can be ready to go in four minutes. >> Wow.
1:00:04
You can turn it on like a light switch. Wow.
1:00:07
>> And I can let it go like that.
1:00:07
Like I'm so thankful, like I talked about earlier, that I don't carry that persona with me in my everyday life.
1:00:12
It just wouldn't work for my life now.
1:00:14
I I've let that ego part go thanks to a lot of nights in a jungle. Right.
1:00:20
[laughter] >> So that that ego part of me is is is gone.
1:00:24
Now, I had a really good friend who played for the Drew Brees who played for the Saints. Okay. >> Mhm.
1:00:31
>> And Drew is one of the best guys in the world off the field.
1:00:33
Now, you get him on the field and he's got just enough ego to want to kill you.
1:00:37
>> And that's what it takes to do his job.
1:00:39
>> That's what it takes to do his job.
1:00:39
Now, for me to be up there, I've got to have enough of that to be great at what I do.
1:00:48
But I'm telling you, back in the day, I got three or four friends with me on the road that I went to high school and college with.
1:00:53
Two of those guys run my merch company out there and the other guy is my road manager for years.
1:01:00
We would play college PlayStation football on the road and we were addicted to it.
1:01:04
And I've held shows before so we could finish a game and be it's time to go on, you know, we're 10 minutes late from going on.
1:01:10
I'm back I'm not even my show closed yet.
1:01:12
I'm back there playing football trying to win.
1:01:14
So [laughter] So I can there's I know I know of at least 10 times that happened. Yeah.
1:01:24
>> And the audience is going, "Well, Kenny nervous. What's going on?"
1:01:26
I'm back there going, "Motherfuckers."
1:01:27
Yeah, [laughter] >> that's so funny. >> Right. But I I could quit that.
1:01:33
>> And look, I >> You're really lucky. >> Very lucky.
1:01:36
And I can put a pair of jeans, boots, shirt, my my palm leaf straw, cowboy hat, and all of a sudden I'm walk to the stage and it's like that and I'm laser focused and and ready to go.
1:01:50
Do you travel anywhere interesting while you were in college?
1:01:53
>> Now, there was three or four of us in that bluegrass band that had never been out of East Tennessee ever.
1:01:59
Like, now I went to on vacation, I went to Myrtle Beach, South Carolina with my family and to Daytona Beach, Florida.
1:02:06
But other than that, I never went any further than church, the ballpark, and school. Never.
1:02:14
All of a sudden, here we here I am, a sophomore in college, and one of my guitar teachers in college named Jack Toddle.
1:02:21
He says, "We've been invited to come to Moscow for this music festival." >> Wow.
1:02:27
>> And we and it was just a a bluegrass band.
1:02:29
We were, you know, and so we went to Moscow and there were other uh groups there from other countries.
1:02:36
There was a Russian group that was it was a little different. It was It was folkier.
1:02:40
different. It was It was folkier. It was it was still acoustic instruments but it wasn't traditional grun bluegrass you know that we were playing and there was a group from Italy and there was a group I don't know just from other countries and there was about 10 10 of those groups there [sighs and gasps] and we we had interpreters but it was really broken communication right for
1:03:04
the first three or four days we were there for 10 days and for the first three or four days we we kind of stayed in our group and kind of stayed in our zone Little by little we started jamming with the other players and little by little we all formed our own groups within that and we were learning from them and they were learning from us and all of a sudden we had written a few songs together and all of a sudden we were friends. We still
1:03:27
We still couldn't speak the language >> but we played the same notes.
1:03:34
>> So beautiful >> and that is the power of music.
1:03:35
That was the first time that I ever felt how strong that was and how connected that made people.
1:03:43
And I remember thinking how blessed I've been.
1:03:45
But by the time we left >> in this bus to go to the airport, I mean, we didn't want to say goodbye to anybody because we knew that that was the last time we would see them.
1:03:55
>> But for seven or eight days in Moscow and this really shitty uh university dorm room, I mean, in any hour of the night, you would see different people in there playing music and writing songs and jamming together. So cool. >> Great experience.
1:04:09
>> That's the power of music.
1:04:12
>> What makes a great record? >> Spontaneity. >> My opinion.
1:04:18
I've been guilty of making it too perfect.
1:04:21
I've been guilty of like another Barry Beckett ism.
1:04:23
Barry taught me early on that sometimes, not all the time, but sometimes you can mix the hit out of it. >> Yeah. Overdo it. >> Overdo it.
1:04:32
you know, and I've been guilty of not knowing when to walk away.
1:04:37
I've been guilty of maybe sometimes walking away too soon.
1:04:40
I especially in the middle of exhaustion and making really important decisions in the middle of exhaustion.
1:04:46
But to me, what makes a great record is when something just shows up out of nowhere and it's just the spontaneity of it all and you've been there. It's just magic. You can't explain it.
1:04:58
It's a gift and you can't plan that.
1:05:01
You can go in with a great artist and songs and you can mix it the way you want, but it's sometimes it sounds like it's got a 100 pounds of bricks on its back and sometimes it sounds like magic.
1:05:15
>> Yeah, >> that's the best way I can explain what's happened to me.
1:05:17
I mean, yes, you got to have great players and you got to have, you know, the song the songs have to be solid or whatever, but we've all taken great songs with great players into the studio and it make a great record.
1:05:29
>> And also sometimes songs that you don't think that much of when you record them all of a sudden blossom into something you couldn't imagine. >> Oh yeah.
1:05:35
That wouldn't even mirac that you didn't even have for the record. >> No. >> Right.
1:05:41
I've been in the process of making this record on a a friend of mine named Kat Higgins who's a great songwriter.
1:05:47
She's written a lot of songs for me and we've been in the process of making her record for a while. >> Mhm.
1:05:52
>> And we were in there and she wanted to recut a couple things and which we did and it was a good decision but and it goes to this point about not overdoing it and magic happening in the studio.
1:06:02
I said, "What's one of your favorite songs when you were growing up?"
1:06:07
And she goes, "Blue by you by Linda Ronstead." I said, "Perfect. Perfect example." Yeah.
1:06:13
and we went and listened to it and it's not perfect, but it's magic.
1:06:17
I mean, if you sat and listened to that, as someone that's mixed a lot of records in his life, there's a lot of things that I in the moment I would have probably done different. >> Yeah. >> But it's magic. >> It caught a moment. >> It caught a moment.
1:06:29
And that's what makes a great record.
1:06:30
And there's a lot of records that I that, you know, you and I both grew up on.
1:06:34
If we go back and analyze them now, my own records like I I can't listen to anything, you know, that was early because I just I'm too inside it. >> Yeah.
1:06:45
>> And there's so many things I would have done different >> and not overdoing it makes a great record.
1:06:54
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1:09:00
[music] How important are lyrics to you?
1:09:12
>> Well, I grew up in a very lyrical town like and and I got to Nashville when some of the songwriters were bigger figures than the artist.
1:09:18
Like I I I feel very fortunate to have started my career as a songwriter at Auff Rose with a bunch of people who were true craftsmen of songs.
1:09:30
So lyrics have always been very very important to me.
1:09:33
Like the first time I heard you and Tequila, right?
1:09:38
I didn't write that song, but the first time my friend Matrice Berg and Dina Carter wrote that song and she'd sent it to me before, but it was a female singing.
1:09:47
It was Matrice singing it.
1:09:48
And I said, "Well, send that to me with with a male singing. I just want to hear it." >> Yeah.
1:09:54
>> And I'll never forget it.
1:09:54
I was Well, it was the year I met you.
1:09:56
I believe it was 2007 and I was in Santa Monica and I was driving home. It was magic.
1:10:02
It was sunset and it was just one of those drives and you go, "Oh, this is why I live here."
1:10:06
And I put that song on and the lyrics of that song like it was just unlike hearing a male sing it.
1:10:12
I went, "Oh, I can do that."
1:10:13
That's the power of those lyrics because a lot of people collab for marketing and duets and and awards and just stuff, you know, for different reasons.
1:10:24
I haven't done a ton of them, but the lyrics and the song has to be there first.
1:10:31
So, I had I left Malibu and I went back to Nashville to record You and Tequila and I had the track for a little while, but I didn't want someone that people would have just Okay, yeah, that's we we would expect that person to sing within the format or whatever.
1:10:47
I had to have a specific voice and I didn't know who that voice was yet.
1:10:51
Well, my friend Holly Gleason sent me a live record of this girl named Grace Potter from Burlington, Vermont. >> She's amazing.
1:11:01
>> And I put it in my in in my computer and it was on my iTunes.
1:11:04
And Rick, I could at the time and I it's even more now.
1:11:06
I could hit shuffle on my iTunes and it wouldn't repeat a song for a month.
1:11:10
I had so much music in there.
1:11:12
Well, I was at my house in the Virgin Islands. It was a clear night.
1:11:17
was a clear night. I was looking up at this endless beautiful sky and I heard this voice on my pool speakers and it was Grace Potter singing a song called Apologies >> and I went that's it that's the voice and it was sent I mean I'm telling you
1:11:33
it was like the without being cliche the stars were aligned and I called Holly the next day I said this Grace Potter person singing this song I said that's the that's the voice for you in tequila Grace was in >> Europe and she had just landed in the states. I don't know where, but we had
1:11:49
I don't know where, but we had sent her my version of you and tequila.
1:11:54
Now, all Grace knew of me was she thinks my tractor's sexy.
1:11:57
Then they played that in Burlington, Vermont.
1:11:59
That's all she knew of Kenny Chesney.
1:12:00
So, when she first heard the name, she was like, "Ah, I don't think so."
1:12:04
But going back to the lyrics, the song, she listened to it and she said, "I'm going to do this."
1:12:12
And the next day she was in Nashville.
1:12:14
It was on my birthday and we went into the studio to sing you and tequila together and we went to dinner that night after and we had some drinks, a big dinner and celebrated my birthday and the fact that we just sang a great song together, never knowing that it was going to end up being a life friendship.
1:12:34
That's the power again of music.
1:12:38
>> Let's listen to that song.
1:12:38
You play [music] first and then we'll see.
1:12:47
Baby, here I am again kicking dust in the [music] canyon wind.
1:12:54
Waiting for that sun to go [music and singing] down.
1:13:00
Made it up my Holland drop and hell bent on getting high above the lights of town.
1:13:08
[music] Now you and tequila make me crazy.
1:13:21
Run like poison in my blood.
1:13:28
One more night could kill me, baby. One is one too many.
1:13:38
One more is never enough.
1:13:45
Now you put Grace Potter's if you want to play it like you listen to Grace Potter sing that song. >> Yeah.
1:13:51
>> It takes it to a [laughter] completely different place.
1:13:54
>> Let's hear a little of >> I mean >> of you and Grace.
1:14:03
>> But see, Grace was unexpected. >> Yeah.
1:14:05
>> Her voice hadn't been burned within the format.
1:14:13
Baby, here I am again, kicking dust in [music and singing] the canyon, waiting for that sun to go down.
1:14:26
Made it up my Holland Drive.
1:14:30
Hell bent on getting high above the lights [music] of [singing] town.
1:14:41
You and Tequila make me [music and singing] crazy.
1:14:48
>> Like poison [music and singing] in my blood.
1:14:55
>> One more knock could kill me.
1:14:55
Baby, >> one is one [singing and music] too many.
1:15:05
One more is never enough.
1:15:05
[music] [music] >> 30 days and 30 nights been putting up a real [singing] good fight.
1:15:23
There were times I thought [music] you'd win.
1:15:30
It's [music] so easy to forget the bitter taste the morning left.
1:15:37
Swear I wouldn't go back there [music and singing] again.
1:15:44
[music] You and [singing] make me crazy.
1:15:52
Run like poison [singing] in my [music] blood.
1:15:59
One more [music] knack could kill me, baby.
1:16:05
One is [music and singing] one too many.
1:16:09
One more is never [singing] enough.
1:16:13
When it [music] comes to you, all the damage I could do, it's always your favorite [music] sins that do you [singing] in.
1:16:36
>> [music] >> Well, that's a cool song, but it's not the same without grace. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> Yeah. Yeah.
1:16:40
>> So, that's a the lyrics had to be there, you know.
1:16:43
So, it's like that's an example of that's not marketing. That is that is >> Yeah. It's just what it means. >> This is what it is.
1:16:50
>> I love the story of how you came to know her just by hearing her voice.
1:16:54
>> Just by hearing her voice. >> Yeah.
1:16:55
And see, that's an example of kind of what I talked to you about in Russia.
1:16:59
Like, I didn't I didn't know Grace.
1:16:59
I don't I didn't know anything about her.
1:17:03
She didn't know anything about me other than she thinks my character's sexy.
1:17:04
We joke a little bit about because she had this kind of she had a much different audience than I did, right?
1:17:11
I had this core country audience and I was building it and it was it was wider than most, right?
1:17:16
But still a lot of her fans in her world wasn't coming to the normal Kenny Chesn show. No, ever.
1:17:23
So when we did this and we joke about it like a a lot of a lot of my fans were going who the and all of her fans were going why the [laughter] >> That's really funny.
1:17:42
>> It's really true though. Yeah.
1:17:42
But once they heard it, >> they went, "Oh, okay. This makes sense. It it works.
1:17:47
They play the same notes as it turns out."
1:17:49
You know, >> makes me want to hear a whole album of you guys singing together. We thought about it. >> Yeah. Be beautiful. >> No.
1:17:56
And she wants to, I want to.
1:17:56
It's just getting it there.
1:17:58
And >> but yeah, something that organic and wonderful, >> just beautiful.
1:18:03
>> And you know, I don't know if we lock ourselves up and write all the songs. I don't know.
1:18:07
But >> maybe or we just find great songs.
1:18:10
>> I don't think it matters.
1:18:11
>> I don't think it matters.
1:18:11
But >> as long as the songs are great, you know, it doesn't matter.
1:18:13
As >> long as the songs are great.
1:18:15
>> You don't get extra credit for writing it yourself. >> No. No. It's like, wow. Thank God.
1:18:17
If I had insisted on writing all the songs. >> Yeah.
1:18:22
There is a third of my life that it wouldn't exist in my life. >> Yeah.
1:18:26
>> I get asked advice, like I said, a lot now.
1:18:29
>> I don't know how I am with advice because I just know how I did it.
1:18:31
And the way I did it, there's a piece of it that a lot of people don't want to hear, and that is work.
1:18:36
[laughter] >> Tell me about some things that you learned about the music business being in it this long. Yeah.
1:18:44
>> What would you tell your 18-year-old self about the industry?
1:18:46
I would have definitely have tried to teach him patience because it's only human behavior to want it all at once and I did.
1:18:55
I am so thankful that I didn't get it when I wanted it.
1:18:59
>> It wouldn't have worked the same way.
1:19:01
>> I wouldn't have had the skill set.
1:19:02
>> No, it's perfect the way it happened.
1:19:04
>> Everything that's happened to me would it would have crushed me.
1:19:06
There was a reason that I was in DA and AAA baseball for 13 years.
1:19:09
That kid didn't know patience.
1:19:12
He just wanted it all at once.
1:19:14
The music business taught me patience. It forced me to have it.
1:19:17
But even now, that's all.
1:19:20
I mean, so much of it has changed because everything today is so automatic.
1:19:23
Going back to Springsteen, he told me that him and the guys, you know, early on would take a train from Jersey to New Orleans, do a gig, and take a train back, right?
1:19:31
I mean, this is early on.
1:19:33
I mean, like, >> yeah, but >> that's wanting it.
1:19:35
That's having that willing it to happen and getting better at your craft and >> whatever it takes. >> Yeah.
1:19:41
But truly loving it so much. That's just what you do.
1:19:46
I'm proud of being on the road that long this long because I sincerely believe that if my life hadn't turned out the way it has and I've been fortunate enough to write some songs and record some songs and do what we do, >> I would still be doing it somewhere. >> I'm convinced of it.
1:20:01
It's like an inherent need. I need to do this.
1:20:05
>> It's what you were born to do. >> Yes.
1:20:07
>> Tell me about the Hall of Fame. >> Wow.
1:20:11
I'm from East Tennessee and there are some people that are from East Tennessee that were in the Hall of Fame that to me were bigger than life mythical figures.
1:20:18
I mean, like it was, you know, Dolly Parton's from East Tennessee.
1:20:20
Chad Atkins is from East Tennessee.
1:20:22
Chad, I could walk from my grandmother's house to Chad Atkins's front door on the same street.
1:20:28
And one of the best songwriters and one of my best friends now is named Dean Dylan.
1:20:32
He wrote so many great songs and he's in the country music hall of fame.
1:20:36
All those people are from East Tennessee.
1:20:38
So, for me to add my name to that list, I never thought it was even possible, right?
1:20:43
I was told in February of last year that I was going to go into the Hall of Fame.
1:20:47
So, I had all the way to October to think about it.
1:20:52
>> And it it didn't really sink in. It didn't hit me.
1:20:53
And I honestly I don't know that I truly accepted it.
1:20:57
And I had gratitude, but I'm not sure in my brain that I accepted it just yet.
1:21:04
>> The night of the induction, >> where did it take place?
1:21:07
in in Nashville at the Country Music Hall of Fame and and there's a theater there where they do that.
1:21:12
But before that, they have a this induction pre-eremony and the only people that are allowed in the room are the living members of the Country Music Hall of Tank.
1:21:24
It's like they welcome you in.
1:21:24
And like I said, not to say that I didn't appreciate it and didn't have gratitude towards it.
1:21:30
I just didn't accept it that much until that night, until that moment.
1:21:35
moment. because they walk you into the ratunda where the plaques are held and every living there's only 100 I was number 158 so there's 158 people in the history of this format that are up there and when you walk in they say ladies and gentlemen country music hall of famer Kenny Chesn >> Wow what that does to you >> it's surreal >> in that moment
1:22:01
>> I it was real >> it was real and surreal And I was still having a hard time accepting it, but I was like I was looking at everybody and all of a sudden I was in that room and I get emotional thinking about it because that was that's I had a lot of heroes and friends in that room and I was >> Did you know most of the people in the room or No, >> no, no. Willie Nelson's in that room. I
1:22:23
Willie Nelson's in that room.
1:22:23
I mean, [snorts] >> it just it just seemed unbelievable. >> Yeah.
1:22:30
you know, but when they say your name in that moment, it does something to you.
1:22:35
I mean, it was just I was so emotional and I was so thankful that you go back to, you know, it goes back to me being in church here in three-part harmony.
1:22:45
It goes back to the trip to Russia.
1:22:47
It goes back to every Friday night that I played high school football, we would run out of the locker room to born to run.
1:22:54
that fired us up so much and it just made me think about all these times in my life where music where it wasn't in the front of my brain.
1:23:03
It was just back here in the room waiting to happen.
1:23:07
And it was all these pieces of my life that was orchestrated that was said, "Okay, not yet."
1:23:12
All of that came to me as as they said my name that night as I was getting inducted into the Hall of Fame.
1:23:19
And I don't know how to explain what that what that feels like.
1:23:23
It's just a very surreal moment.
1:23:23
I was lucky enough to sit there and get inducted and have both my parents sit beside me. >> Wow. Beautiful.
1:23:31
>> And when you're 58, that's a big deal.
1:23:33
>> Their minds must have been blown. >> Blown.
1:23:35
My mom, well, the whole night she was just had my hand in my arm and squeezing it really tight.
1:23:39
It was great to have that experience with her and and my dad, you know, and >> probably meant even more to them than to you. >> Oh, no question.
1:23:47
For them to be there with me. >> Unbelievable.
1:23:50
>> Because, you know, my dad and I, you know, we we don't have a lot in common.
1:23:53
and we don't we have sports and and I've learned over the years that that's enough, right?
1:23:58
>> So, our relationship for a while was strained at best, but to have sports and to to have him there and us share that. I'll never forget it.
1:24:07
>> It's also different than any other kind of award is a competition between artists. This is not that. There's no competition. >> No.
1:24:16
And you can't buy yourself into this.
1:24:17
you're invited into a club >> of the all time >> because some of those award shows, you know, people block vote >> and they it's real, but it's I've learned over the years that awards are there, you know, they're important when you're young.
1:24:31
I think after a while it's okay, >> but this >> But there's also something about which song is better than another song or what artist. It's it's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. It's ridiculous.
1:24:42
It's all apples and oranges every time.
1:24:43
Who's to say one person's creativity is so much more superior than this one? >> It's insane.
1:24:49
>> I hate that part of it.
1:24:49
So, >> but this is different.
1:24:51
>> But this is different.
1:24:51
This is you have to make some sort of they call it an indelible mark.
1:24:56
And >> wow, beautifully >> um for them to recognize that and to care.
1:25:01
This is really cool, you know, and so yeah, you can't buy your way into it.
1:25:05
You can't >> you can't market.
1:25:06
You can't >> politic for it.
1:25:08
It's just given to you, you know.
1:25:11
So, I'm very I feel very fortunate and very thankful.
1:25:15
How long does it take you to fall asleep after a show?
1:25:18
>> I haven't slept in 10 years.
1:25:18
[laughter] >> And I'm working on it, but you know, I I I have a hard time relaxing.
1:25:25
This side of my brain turns this way, this side turns this way, and I meet somewhere in the middle of all that.
1:25:31
So, I have a hard for years, I've had a hard time sleeping.
1:25:35
One day, I'm sure I'll calm down.
1:25:38
But when I'm not doing that, you know, I I've got my own SiriusXM radio station. I'm programming that. I'm sending stuff in. Okay, I hate that.
1:25:46
This doesn't, you know, stuff we love five years ago. Just get rid of that. We know.
1:25:50
Let's play the new Grace Potter record. Let's play whatever. >> It's fun. Fun curating stuff. >> I love it. I love it.
1:25:57
>> But there that's just another thing to turn the screw on.
1:26:01
>> I read somewhere that you would end your tour every year in the same place. >> We We still do.
1:26:08
>> How did that come to be?
1:26:10
because I love sports and within sports I've always been very superstitious always.
1:26:16
So there was a year that we opened our tour at the Tampa Bay Buccaneers football stadium and it was on fire was just different than than any other year >> and that whole year was just incredible.
1:26:31
I forgot it was like 2007 I think and we ended it in Foxboro, Massachusetts at the Patriots football stadium at Gillette Stadium.
1:26:40
Since then, we have opened every tour in Tampa and we have closed every year with two nights at Gillette Stadium in Foxboro.
1:26:48
And it's all out of superstition.
1:26:52
>> That's amazing >> because I >> Yeah, you know it works.
1:26:55
>> And I tell Louis Msina, I said, "Don't mess with it.
1:26:57
Whatever in the middle we do, we do.
1:26:58
But we're opening in Tampa >> and we're closing in Foxboro."
1:27:01
And people know that that's where it's they travel to those places to be a part of the open and the close.
1:27:06
Are you superstitious in other ways in your life? >> No. No.
1:27:12
Now that I think of it, I know someone that won't park their car unless the odometer ends in threes and they'll drive around. >> So that happens. >> Yeah. >> I'm not that way.
1:27:23
So it doesn't control my life.
1:27:25
But I don't know because I was superstitious in in sports in my younger life.
1:27:31
Um >> would you like wear the same lucky socks? >> Yeah. Or I would like Yeah.
1:27:34
I I this is really gross, but we went on I can't believe I'm telling you the story on we went on a little winning streak in high school football and I mean this is really gross.
1:27:50
Like we didn't wash our our anything our undershirt, our under or underwear, anything for like a month.
1:27:58
You know how much sweat and dirt and everything.
1:28:01
>> But we were superstitious. Finally, we lost.
1:28:03
I mean, okay, we get to wash our clothes.
1:28:04
[laughter] But it was to that point.
1:28:09
>> So when that when my life changed out there and we started every year like as I'm sitting here talking to you right now, I know I'm doing this here.
1:28:15
[music] We start in about 7 weeks.
1:28:19
>> That aside, next summer and we're already planning what we're going to do. Different gravity.
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