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Kehlani, it's so wonderful to see you.
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Thank you for coming by Apple Music Radio.
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Happy 10th anniversary to us. We met in 2016. >> Aw, look at us. >> I had a photo shoot.
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>> have had like a little cupcake?
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>> We should have provided >> [laughter] >> Now, I feel bad for not providing you with a >> Ah, it's okay. >> your spirits? >> I'm so good. I'm so happy. It's my birthday. My album is out. Thank you. I'm happy to see you.
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I always know we're going to have a good conversation and you actually care about what, you know, what I've done and what we're doing and yeah, I'm happy to be here.
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>> Very much so, you know, and like all of your fans, we've seen and heard the growth throughout life, but I feel like you have been focusing on the fine print more and more in recent times.
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The big macro problems have faded somewhat into the distance and allowed you to zero in on the detail of what makes a great life. Is that fair to say?
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>> Yeah, I feel like I spent so long trying to just like keep everything going and kind of running around like a chicken with my head cut off trying to find my little moments of peace and >> sanity and for myself and I finally am at this place where like balance is >> Balance. >> I have balance.
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I finally have balance and I'm like not fighting to keep it.
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I'm just like fully integrated.
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And it's really, really nice. >> Mhm. We hear it in the music.
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It feels like you allowed yourself to receive the songs. >> I love that.
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Yeah, that's exactly where I'm at.
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Across the board, I'm in a a receiving place. So, yes. >> Mhm.
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So, how do you know when there's a song coming?
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>> [sighs and gasps] >> Like when it's time to make it or >> When it when you're receiving it, when the words start to flow and everything starts to happen.
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I mean, it's so hard to put into words, but I'm never going to stop asking that question. How do you know?
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How does it feel when you realize that something is channeling?
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>> Oh man, I think it's like it's when it's happening before the words.
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I know when like I'm in the studio with the producer and the beat is starting to form and I'm like hearing the instruments I want and I'm like, "Yo, like we should nudge it in this direction or we should get it here because I'm very musically led, not like lyrically led initially.
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So, it's when I'm in there and like we're starting to catch like a thing me and the producer and then like I'm already like, you know, playing around and getting melodic, but usually when that first that first little freestyle of a line comes, that kind of cements what the song is going to be about.
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That's when I feel like I jump into the portal. I'm like, "Oh, okay."
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Like when I made Folded, I just kept saying, "Come pick up your clothes.
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Come pick up your clothes."
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And then it was like, "Okay, now we're going into whatever this world is."
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But that it started with that just little I couldn't get that out of my head, so.
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>> Did you know that song was going to change your life? Did you feel it?
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>> No, I had no idea, but >> one who didn't.
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>> [laughter] >> Only one who didn't know.
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>> You know, I like put the teaser out and like I just teased the intro and then I teased the little I'll let your body decide part and everybody was like, "Cute, we're getting a little summer sex song."
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And then it dropped and they were like, "This is emotional. We wanted a sex song. We don't want this."
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And then like I kind of watched people be like, "Wait a minute, I can't stop listening to this." Like what's happening? I do like this. >> So sticky.
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>> I'm I'm I'm very grateful for that song.
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I owe all my life right now to that song. >> Everything.
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Well, but your whole life led to that song. >> Yeah. Oh, amen. Oh, that's true. That's true.
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>> the song just reflected the human and the spirit and what you were ready to say. >> And you know what? I receive that. Thank you so much. >> Yeah.
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Yeah, there's no luck involved here.
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That song is a byproduct of a lot of miles under foot.
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A lot of experiences give you to find that kind of space in there.
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Um let's just stay with Folded for a second.
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We never spoke about it and we're going to go through this album because it is so good.
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The song with The song with Brandy that Jam & Lewis did.
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Oh my god, I didn't even know they worked on it and I heard I was like, "Jam & Lewis in the house."
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>> Yeah, and they've never done a song with her before. That's their first time.
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So, I got to be some type of freaky legendary glue. >> Mind-blowing. Mind-blowing.
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>> Yeah, I I'm like that I really I was saying the other day cuz I was shooting the video with Missy and like Monica pulled up and Tyrese was there and I'm sitting there and I'm going, "I feel like the kid at the grown-up table. >> Yeah.
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Yeah, that's that's Mount Rushmore.
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>> Yeah, I'm like sitting there like, wow, I can't believe I'm in this room with y'all.
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I feel like I'm intruding almost.
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>> No, you're welcome and and [laughter] here's a cool thing about that. >> to me. Yeah.
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>> Yeah, yeah, because Janelle Monáe said to me one thing, I love to share this whenever this comes up, this idea of how does the gravity work?
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How does the intangible become tangible amongst peers to fans to friends? >> Yeah.
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>> And it really comes from the fact that they hear and see themselves even somewhat spiritually or subconsciously in you because you are formed out of them.
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>> Yeah, I'm just a a byproduct of them. Yeah.
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>> Yeah, but not in a in a in a Xerox way, in a in a chemical way. >> Yeah, yeah.
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>> them with you because they moved you and changed your life. >> Absolutely.
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>> And then they're like, kind of know this person.
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>> Yeah, they recognize us. Yeah, for sure.
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>> So there's the there's the there's the connection. The connection.
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Uh getting getting back to a folded, um you know, it started to happen, it started to move, it started to to become a thing.
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Um what did you see people really recognizing in the song that that was connecting as you're performing it and as you were getting reactions?
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And we talked about the emotion, but how do what do you what do you think the connection is there?
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>> I mean, I think it is a super nuanced take in a song.
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Like I think they're still having conversations about what the song means.
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They're like, I don't know if it's a breakup song or is it a love song or is it I messed up or did you mess up or do we hate this person? Do we love this person? Do we miss them?
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And they're arguing about it today right now and literally the song came out a year ago. >> Yeah.
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>> And um >> I think the folded clothes element is a big giveaway to me cuz it's like even through even through hatred, it's like I >> I care enough.
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Yeah, to fold these clothes.
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And I start the song off by saying like I shouldn't have walked away.
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Like I probably should have just asked for some space. I overreacted.
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Like I'm starting the song saying, clearly something happened, but my issue was that I blew this up.
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So I'm kind of having a peace offering by like saying, hey, like we should probably link up and talk about it.
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And I folded your clothes cuz I do care, but I am hurt because things have obviously changed and things obviously happened.
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>> And that's where the sting in the tail is for me if I really want to go super micro on it and lean into the chat on this.
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Uh >> [laughter] >> the folding is a genuine um it is a gesture of acknowledgement and acceptance in one's role in something and the care it takes to acknowledge the time you spent, but equally if you want to send someone on their way with a sense of um frustration and and anger, you toss their >> Exactly.
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>> If you want them to feel really bad, you fold their >> [laughter] >> That's so petty.
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It's like, and look how nice I'm still being. Look at me.
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>> [laughter] >> Like god, she folded my >> And I'm being a >> [laughter] >> Because even the people with the nicest can still have a little bit of pushing it. >> Yeah, for sure.
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>> That's the whole point. That's the whole point.
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There's definitely some of that going through this record.
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There's proper boss level but there's also real prayer.
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It starts with an intro that establishes exactly what's going on here on this record.
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Um where were you when you wrote the words for intro and and why is it important that you start the album that way?
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>> You know what's funny?
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The intro actually was the last thing that came. >> I love that.
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>> And I kind of have like some notorious intros across the years.
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There was the intro on Sweet Sexy Savage that my friend did like a poem.
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There's an intro on You Should Be Here where like I'm speaking and like the difference between my voice and my energy then of just being like you could tell I was fighting to try to find the the I guess the the the good part of it, but it was it was so much pain and hurt in that intro of me just being like I've been fighting and I've been fighting and I've seen so much and I've been through so much and it hurt so you know?
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And to be able to come full circle and I'm like 31 now and I was what, like 20 21 for you should be I was 20.
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And like say okay, you can hear it.
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You can like hear it even in my tone of my speaking voice how you know, I've grown up and I've matured and I'm confident now and I want everybody to know like going into this you're going to hear someone that's obviously grown and it's obviously, you know, been reshaped and I hate to say reborn but a little bit of a rebirth >> No, that's beautiful.
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>> in a sense of like I finally really belong to myself and I'm in my body and I'm embodied and I'm confident and I'm very sure of everything that I'm doing right now and it it feels like a 180 from before.
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>> Were there times when you were creating and you were trying to find your way out where you felt that that that odds didn't exist without the pain?
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>> Yeah, and I think just you got to be careful as a as a as a heavily traumatized person to not make your pain your identity.
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>> [snorts] >> Um But it can it can be come that >> the first of many truth bombs over the course of this conversation I would say.
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>> Oh yeah, don't worry about that.
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Oh yeah, don't worry about that.
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I've got more stuff I have prepared for you.
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[laughter] Uh no, that's very very true because then you become potentially become something to people that you wouldn't don't want to hold on to but they feel you that you are the vehicle for them.
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>> And you become tethered to that energy and that emotion.
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and that emotion. Like no one wants to like I I mean we all talk about manifestation and you know, what we speak is what we are but and the second you start to just identify as everything you've gone through you don't give yourself a chance to like grow and heal and change and I there's
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times when like I see old interviews of myself and all the questions are like and your mom and your dad and your childhood and your homelessness and your this and I'm like I'm seeing over the years how many times I was asked those questions and like over time like I'm just like yeah, sure. Yeah, sure. Like Yeah, sure.
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Like the the they used to be really long answers.
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And now they're like yeah, but it's cool.
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Yeah, but it's cool and like over a while you could see that I'm just trying to grow from it and I'm trying to I've processed it, I've done the things around it and yeah, you just can't tell it yourself in that way.
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So, this was me just being like >> Love it. >> Let's move forward.
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>> why is people and remove even like the exercise of media to artist a relationship required to gather information out of it.
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And let's just look at it from a basic human standpoint.
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I I I wonder why we we do become so attached to people's traumatic stories and we want to retell them, hear them again.
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It almost speaks to the side of our psychology as a species where >> with you know, we're almost unable to process it maybe unable to process our own trauma or our own experiences.
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So, we feel somewhat heard or seen by by living vicariously through others.
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>> I mean, I think that's how kind of like everything was taught in life.
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I mean, even if you think of like religious texts, it's all these grand stories of all these ups and downs and trials and suffering to then teach us how to move through those own that those things in our own lives.
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I think that's just how we learn and how we process as humans.
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It's why music works, it's why art works, it's why dance you go cry at a ballet because everything is just so moving and we need these processes to unstuck ourselves.
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Um so, I'm happy that I'm able to share in that way and that I'm able to like you know, connect with people in that way, but it does come times where I'm like, are we all just trauma bonding? >> Right.
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>> This one big ass trauma bond. >> Yeah. >> Sure.
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>> [laughter] >> Sure, but not at the party.
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Don't be at the party in my ear talking about the trauma. I'm going to scream.
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>> I think we do get to a place where you are able to process it with enough distance and enough altitude and you can you can choose how to go in and it doesn't become an you know, a natural observation.
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>> Yeah, well, God willing.
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>> [laughter] >> Oh, you're there.
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You're there on this record. You're so there.
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How How do How do you process emotions differently now that they're not attached to pain? How beautiful is that? >> It's so nice.
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I mean, it honestly came when I had my daughter and not even when I had her because I honestly tell people all the time who are like having kids, I'm like, "Yo, you'll get the When you really get the hang of it, like you'll understand."
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There comes a point where like you go, "Oh."
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And it's not in the first couple years. You know what I mean?
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I feel like the first couple years you're like, "How do I care for a human being?
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Like, what do >> Listening in like, "Is it [laughter] okay?"
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>> I'm like, "Are you breathing?"
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I'm like putting my finger under her nose. >> Oh, dude, for real. For real.
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>> It's all that kind of stuff, but when you get to having to like she's seven, so she's like having really thoughtful conversations with me.
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She's expressing grievances with me.
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She's telling me things that she wants to change and do differently and ways that she needs certain things for herself and all, cuz she's just super like autonomous and has so many things to say and like that is when everything starts to get into this like I'm not processing just for myself.
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I'm processing so I can show up as a mom and so I can show up as a student of life and so I can guide her in a certain way and it not being informed via trauma is obviously really hard, because there's some part of the ego that wants to go like, "I've been through so much and I've I fought so much and like does anybody recognize how hard I was fighting this whole time?
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Is anybody going to tell me I can rest now and give me a pat on the back?" >> Wow.
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>> But you can't wait for that, you know?
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>> You got to work your way through it. >> Yeah.
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>> And you know, you're on the clock when you have a kid, too. >> Absolutely.
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>> you know, you >> You get no seconds to waste. Yeah.
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>> And then, you know, they get to that age and then you start having your firsts.
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You're out of firsts, you know? >> All the firsts.
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>> The first time they they feel rejection. >> Yeah. >> Oh.
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>> Yeah, my daughter had a crush and she was like, "But he doesn't like me back."
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And I was like, "You know he probably wants to be your best friend."
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And that's the best That's actually way better. >> that moment?
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>> Yeah, he doesn't like me.
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>> She's not listening into anything you're saying.
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She's just like, "Damn, Mom, just let me be heartbroken for a second."
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>> And I'm like, "Girl, >> I'm going to fix it for you."
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>> I hate them all even when they're seven.
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>> [laughter] >> Oh my god, you're going to be the best mother-in-law, but it's going to be a terrifying trial by error for whoever becomes your >> I actually I think I have such a wide understanding of how important it is for like for love to exist.
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And of course I don't apply this right now, she's freaking seven.
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>> Yeah, yeah, we're way ahead of schedule.
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>> Yeah, we're just chopping it early. >> Yeah, yeah.
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>> But I genuinely think that I'm going to just thoroughly enjoy seeing how she navigates love in the world.
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Her her her astrology is so funny.
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Like she's an Aquarius Venus and I feel like if anybody listening you know that means she's going to be just hyper independent.
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And it's so different from like how I'm set up and how I'm wired. >> What are you? >> I'm an Aries Venus. >> Mhm.
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>> So everything's got to be on fire and it's got to be so passionate and intense and she's kind of probably going to be like yeah, I'm doing me, honestly.
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I'm I'm excited to learn from her and watch her and >> the best part.
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>> Yeah, and I can courage her when I can, but I'm very hands-off in the way of like she's she leads and I course correct when it gets out the way, but I don't I don't tell her these are how things have to go.
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>> She knows what mommy does. >> Yeah, oh for sure.
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>> Yeah, and she's a fan of your music? >> She loves it.
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She's like has perfect pitch, has freaky deaky melodic like input, like she's doing her own runs over stuff and I'm like catching her while she's in the bathroom, like in the shower, like singing her own versions and I'm like >> Hold on tight, Mom. Hold on tight. >> Hold on tight. Who is that?
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>> Because they are by their very nature meant to be better than us and that's beautiful thing about it. That's what I mean.
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And so >> She's light years ahead of me.
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>> I have experience in this department, you know, and some of my friends have often said to me, "Do you get worried about the people you love the most going into an industry that you know is you don't know how hard it is?"
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And I say no, because we need good people to keep stewarding this.
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>> She got the tools to do so and I totally think she will. >> Yeah, thanks to you. My gosh. So good to see you. >> Nice to see you.
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>> This album, wow, it's so good start to finish, absolutely incredible from intro.
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You know, I love how you gave Wayne the space to really start the album in earnest. >> Yeah.
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>> And you didn't come in there and take the first beat.
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You just waited to reveal yourself after the goat after the goat. >> Uh-huh.
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>> That was obviously a conscious decision. >> Yeah.
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>> Talk us through the thinking process.
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>> So, you know, when he sent the verse back, my only requirement to Lil Wayne was that he must flick the lighter.
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>> [laughter] >> When I sent the song, I said, "I have one request.
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I would never tell you what to do in this life, my king, but I need you to flick that lighter."
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I need it because what I wanted to happen on this album was I really wanted all the features to feel this like joyous return to what they truly love to do.
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Which they didn't really know what type time I was on.
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They was like, "Okay, like what I don't know what kind of song you're going to send."
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And I'm like, "You know, like we the last album and we you know, then we heard folded and like what we heard from other people in the industry, you're kind of like taking it back to your roots and like what is it?"
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And then they would get the song and they were like, >> [laughter] >> They were like, "Oh, I love this. I get to do my thing."
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>> Thanks for thinking of me and not to yes, yes.
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>> So exciting and he didn't send the verse initially back I think even in the beginning, but I'm like, "How crazy is it to start the album and you hear the lighter flick and he says my name?"
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And it just it feels so celebratory and such like a like I get to step back and just say, "You take your place and do your thing."
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And >> It's a really beautiful generous gift to not not just to yourself and to Wayne, but to us as fans, too.
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And it really heightens the anticipation of you arriving on this record. >> Yeah.
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>> And opening your mouth and and and we hear the tone and we hear the words and the truth and it's like, "Oh, wow." It It's It's beautiful.
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It's like a wonderful It's the kind of thing that I remember some of my favorite rap records used to do is they would just allow other people to step in and then they would >> Yeah.
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>> It's a little confident. >> Yeah, it's confident.
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>> It's a little like, "Yeah, like just know by the time you hear my voice going to be great, but just enjoy this right now as a fan cuz I'm a fan. So, I got to fan out.
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This is This is my favorite thing to do.
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>> Confidence is an essential part of the equation.
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It doesn't come easily and it's not always present.
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And in fact, great art gets made in a very unconfident space as where vulnerability can exist, too.
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But, now that you have achieved this hard-earned confidence and you know and you bring it with you, um how kind are you to your former self when you didn't have it?
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>> Um you know, I don't think I spend too many conscious moments, which I probably should, like really looking backwards.
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>> Do you Do you do therapy? >> I do do therapy.
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I've been in therapy for a very long time to the point where I had to start going into other alternative routes of therapy because I got to the point the four the four-year mark of my therapist and we're kind of just like looking at each other like, "So, you want to play a game?"
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Like >> [laughter] >> You clocked therapy?
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>> so many body scans that I can do.
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>> So, Kehlani clocked therapy?
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It's like, "You have clocked the game."
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>> when you're getting to the point where like you're saying things and you're like, "Yeah, but I know where that comes from.
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I knew what other option I had to how to behave in this situation.
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I know the thought process for where I was.
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Like, I should have taken a beat before I Like, you're starting to >> right.
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>> You're like, "What else >> myself.
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If I'm not going to learn this lesson at this point, when am I going >> girl, I'm paying you so much money.
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Like, what are we talking about?"
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>> [laughter] >> There was that part.
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So, what did you take it from there?
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I mean, if if if you're in a situation where Okay, therapy is waiting for me.
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It's always there for a tune-up.
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But, how do I How do I stay present?
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How do I now start to process what's going on in my life today and applying that >> It's really God. Like, it really is.
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Like, I wouldn't say I ever lost faith in life.
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I was I was raised Christian.
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Um and then the woman that was taking me to church, my grandmother, passed away.
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So, there was nobody else who had time or had a church relationship to then take me.
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My mom took me to the ashram a lot to meditate.
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Um, she was always very spiritual.
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Like always she would listening to like The Secret like in the car the audio book on the way to school.
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So, she was always like very tapped in very connected and upon making like such a conscious return to to religion and to and to God and to Jesus Christ like really re-rattled me like in such a like I would say like a Christ consciousness kind of way like >> what that means?
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>> Really removing the the parameters of like structure and religion and like this kind of like very human applied thing to this massive very high IQ very smart very deep thing that is you know Jesus journey and and just I have so many moments where like I guess in the past this would have been sarcastic but now it's so real I will say what would Jesus do?
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>> Yeah, so it's a micro almost rather than a macro experience.
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It's not like it happens once a week.
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It's like it could be an every action.
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>> All the time I'm like yo like this would be a situation that would would have required love as the response when I really want to like have a cold shoulder I want to like be reactive like what would Jesus do?
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Yo, he would probably just say like I can choose love here and like that be that.
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Really simple be kind to your neighbors honor your family like >> yeah, yeah.
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>> It's so much more simple and I feel like humans have just taken it on one and we've turned you know we we kind of turn everything into something >> not Are we like cuz we love to own >> Yeah, and we just do it up and we just we harm a lot of really beautiful and and simple things that way and
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>> I used to you know there have been times when I've been in really low places and I've been in cities or whatever and I've gone into churches not that I I I I particularly adhere to any one religion but I've gone in because I because I wanted a place of of quiet and >> you're massively moved. >> Massively moved. >> Massively moved. >> Yeah.
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>> And I'm just overwhelmed by the beauty all around me. >> Yeah.
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>> And about, you know, the fact that it And I really have always walked out of there going, "You know, I just experienced something that has collected soulful and spiritual moments and held it in this beautiful holding place." >> Container.
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>> So, you literally go in and you're just like, "Whoa, I'm in this wonderful swirl."
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>> It is usually about just the songs, somebody sharing a passage that they're relating to your everyday life. There's more songs. >> Mhm.
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>> There's a collective gratitude moment. >> Mhm. >> That's it. >> Mhm.
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>> And we've turned it into all of this when when I when I went back and really just stripped everything >> Everything.
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>> and said, "Wow, this is just supposed to make me happier, healthier, more whole, and have something that I truly believe is orchestrated for me." >> Yeah.
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>> I don't really have to apply all those other things.
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I don't know you guys, you guys don't know me, you don't know anything about my life.
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I don't I don't have to apply any of this like painful I can apply a curiosity here.
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I have so much curiosity about Jesus.
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I have so many questions.
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I have so many There was There's books about years he spent in India.
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And all these things where I'm like, "Wow, this is actually really cool and there's so much more to it than But we've we've, you know, we've got a little nitpicky about it and I don't want to be anywhere near that.
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I just would really like to be informed by love.
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So, I will stay in my little Christ consciousness love bubble.
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>> It It sounds like a beautiful shape.
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>> Oh, it's been the best. It's been the best. I love church. >> And it's yours. >> Yeah, it is. >> It's yours. You're right.
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I I think we get too swept up in the um in in the, you know, uh the contribution, the forced contribution of it all in order to maintain the architecture.
22:56
>> Yeah, I start talking about Jesus and everybody's like, "When's your gospel album?"
22:59
And I I like, >> Oh, yeah, don't put it on me.
23:02
>> How did we get all the way here?
23:02
Okay, well, now you got to start dressing different and you got to start looking different and everything's got to Everything's has to change about you.
23:08
And I'm like Wow, do you can't see that it's doing exactly what it should be doing right now? Do I not seem lighter? Do I not seem healthier?
23:14
Do I not seem more focused and grounded? I think it's working.
23:18
>> Well, I think it's because to some degree, and I don't want to speak for for any one religion, but I think the idea of um uh some kind of spiritual consumption on mass ultimately really urges, even with the best of intentions, um others to like I said to contribute. >> Yeah.
23:32
>> Um to give something back that that that serves the masses, right?
23:33
And there's something really beautiful about that.
23:36
We all have to exist on one rock.
23:36
And we have to contribute and work together as one at moment especially in in moments of of of real of real trauma and real challenge.
23:44
But I I I've never liked the idea of enforced anything. >> Yeah.
23:49
>> Certainly from a you should for aside from just basically trying to be a good person and contributing in a meaningful way. >> Yeah.
23:55
>> It's it's hard when you get told like, "Yeah, welcome to the party. What are you doing?"
23:59
>> And Jesus was a disruptor.
23:59
He basically came through and said "Oh, all of this crazy human stuff you guys are doing, that's not what it's about.
24:07
All I'm saying is I've been here to be a human representation of this massive love. >> Mhm.
24:13
>> And I'm just here to do I don't even want you to worship me.
24:14
I just want you to see me as flesh just as you guys are.
24:20
And see, I'm a representation of something bigger.
24:21
I'm just here to say a couple things, get my things, and be about my way." >> Mhm. >> Love that. >> Mhm. >> Disrupt. >> Mhm.
24:28
>> I don't have to do none of that.
24:28
I'm I'm following instruction from who I'm supposed to be following instruction from, and that's where it ends.
24:36
>> God, we're fascinating species, aren't we? >> We really are.
24:39
>> We use the We use the ego when we need it. It's a thing, you know?
24:41
You use the ego until it starts to use you. >> Yeah.
24:45
>> And then it gets real The table turns really, really fast. >> about them tables. >> They [laughter] turn.
24:52
>> They're going to turn. Yes.
24:55
>> Nothing lazy about that, Susan.
24:55
will turn real [laughter] fast.
24:57
Uh I just love the fact that you have achieved things in the last 18 months that your ego as a younger person would have just eaten up. [clears throat] >> Yes.
25:09
Oh, I thought it was all the time. >> me more of that."
25:12
And I feel like you're just like, "Cool." >> Yeah.
25:19
Because I have had things in my hands before and my hands weren't, you know, ready enough to carry them and they I dropped the ball. >> Yeah.
25:25
>> And whether it was fear, whether it was too overly excited ego, or I didn't have the tools as a person with mental health issues not having the tools and you have all of a sudden you go from zero to 100 and it's chaos and it's money and it's people and it's attention and it's all these things. You're like >> Oh, man.
25:41
>> It is a gluttonous thing.
25:41
It It makes all the disorders just gluttonous.
25:44
Yeah, they just you just turn upside down.
25:46
And um I'm glad that I'm I'm I'm seasoned in a way of I've been in this world for so long to where I've seen massive fast ups.
25:58
I've seen really low lows and I've seen plateaus. I've plateaued.
26:02
I've done I've done all of those things to where this now feels like I'm taking these steps, but I'm also like carrying them properly.
26:08
I'm also being really really aware.
26:10
I'm not just like And I'm not freaked out.
26:14
>> You know >> I'm not scared.
26:15
Which is really cool because fear is an emotion that ran me for a really long time.
26:21
>> I've done maybe I don't want to count, but I mean a lot of interviews, a lot of conversations with you.
26:24
You know, we've spoken a few times off the record.
26:26
We've spoken, you know, quite a few times on the record.
26:29
Um it's not for me to put them in any kind of hierarchy or category and tell you that's for you to understand your growth, but it is beautiful to have an honest conversation with you where you do not feel afraid or seem afraid at all.
26:41
>> I I appreciate it cuz I know I have been >> Yeah.
26:44
>> And you know, I think something about that is the whole like being famous since I was a teenager. >> Yeah.
26:50
>> And you like every time you feel an emotion for yourself, you realize at some point that that's going to be plastered to millions of people.
26:56
And so you start to be in this like how you start to hyper surveil yourself.
27:00
And like for the last like basically 12, 13 years, I've been hyper surveilling myself.
27:05
Like I I will go to say something and then my brain will think of the five possible ways I can maybe get canceled for saying it and how people could take it wrong, who's going to dissect it, and I'm like, I shouldn't even say that.
27:16
>> job to say it and I'm asking you a question and just give me an honest answer.
27:19
>> I have asked you you know, similar questions five other times for other people and I'm >> I'm just at the point where I'm like, you know, I who I'm meant to connect with and who's meant to hear this and receive this and see me and and and
27:31
whether they believe me or not or see the honesty and the honesty and all the things that that's exactly who it's for and we're just in a place where like people are going to twist it up and turn it up regardless and that fear cannot belong to me. >> Vic Mensa was saying a similar thing
27:44
>> Vic Mensa was saying a similar thing recently cuz you know, I love Vic and >> Yeah, my twin.
27:48
>> Vic is the best and what he's what he's doing is God bless you, Vic.
27:51
Yeah, we love that orange tree.
27:52
We absolutely do and he was talking about that.
27:55
He's saying a similar thing about how, you know, he was so caught up and and and and afraid to say what was on in his mind and in his spirit that he was just like paralyzed basically.
28:02
Every night every night and then he was like, I can't do it anymore and he had this eruption of truth and he said his life changed for the better the second he let it go.
28:11
>> You [snorts] know, you can't I just think we're here as vessels.
28:12
Artists are just here as vessels and there's like a whole spiritual concept that when you receive something if you don't then put it out because that was the point of receiving it, you kind of start chipping at this like spiritual gift that you have.
28:29
And it's almost like spirit begins to not trust you to be able to share that.
28:33
So maybe the the what it gives you to receive becomes less and less and I I started to feel that way.
28:38
I'm like, I don't even know if I'm hearing things how I used to hear things or or seeing the the the God in everything how I used to because I'm now cutting I'm cutting God off.
28:51
>> your experiences >> Exactly. Exactly.
28:53
At the end of the day, like we also our for some reason our gets sensationalized way crazier than this is like way crazier is happening to regular people up and down the street.
29:03
You go outside your house right now and your neighbors is going through the craziest you ever heard in your life, but it's it's crazy when our is minimized.
29:10
And then it's everywhere.
29:11
>> Can we talk about the Can we go Can we just uh dabble in the in the in the world of conspiracies for a second?
29:14
I mean, you know, just for a second.
29:16
And I'm not I'm not particularly conspiratorial.
29:19
>> I'm not either, but on the on the tip of this year finding out every conspiracy ever IS THE TRUTH.
29:24
>> MAYBE I SHOULD HAVE BEEN. >> Y'all was right.
29:26
Where my tin foil hat at? >> Seriously. [laughter] Seriously. >> Get me one.
29:29
Get me a copper beanie right now. I believe it. >> 100%.
29:33
I think about the odds and I think about This is a very deeply rooted institutionalized belief structure from people in power who are afraid of the freedom of voice. >> Yes.
29:42
>> Because the odds can't be controlled the way media can now. Social media can.
29:46
Now, everything else is to some degree owned. I'm not wrong. It's owned.
29:47
It's owned by a very few amount of people. >> Yeah.
29:50
>> And you know, the odds are very very free.
29:52
And someone said this to me once.
29:54
They were like, it's one of the last free spaces.
29:55
Might have been while I am.
29:57
It's one of the last free spaces.
29:57
You can say anything if you're clever and good about it and things like that without disruption and without distraction and without someone gatekeeping your thoughts.
30:03
So, well, that's the last remaining thing we have to control. >> Yeah.
30:09
>> plant the seed of distrust amongst artists.
30:12
That's why when someone says something that they really believe in, >> Mhm.
30:15
>> rich spoiled musician comes out and says, you know, the same narrative starts to creep out.
30:21
>> Shut up and sing your songs. >> Right?
30:22
This this kind of idea of of devaluing and questioning the or the credibility of your statement. >> Absolutely.
30:28
>> And yet it couldn't be more credible cuz it's yours. >> Exactly.
30:31
And it's this it's this tired like it's this super tired we must not know anything or we're so privileged we couldn't possibly relate to the people that we're speaking about when it's like do you guys think we're all nepo babies?
30:44
Like do you guys think like it couldn't be the the the ones of us that literally were homeless before or came up from nothing and dropping free songs on SoundCloud and was begging people to come to our concerts that had freaking 60 people in the room like I someone the other day this is so funny I have to say it.
31:04
Someone the other day said I it's it's interesting that I chose to perform my song folded at the Iheart Awards in a laundromat because there's no way that I had I'd be in the laundromat.
31:19
>> [snorts] >> And I did that to then be relatable when I should have stuck with the cleaners.
31:24
>> [snorts] >> I had no washer and dryer growing I've been in the laundromat.
31:30
My my my mother still goes to the laundromat.
31:34
>> I'm not laughing because of because of the the the the undeniable truth of it.
31:38
I'm laughing because it's just such a >> shitty base cut. >> It's so shot out. Shut the out.
31:41
I'm sorry it's shot the out. >> Yeah.
31:47
>> There's no way I've been to a laundry.
31:49
Me and my all of my garage tattoos with there's no way I've been to a laundromat. >> It's ridiculous.
31:55
And then but >> You heard it here first.
31:57
I've never been to a laundromat.
31:59
>> Thank you some truth at last. Some truth at last.
32:04
We all know you've been bougie from the day you were born. This is all like a lie. >> Hello. Obviously look at me.
32:10
>> No that's not the point.
32:10
The point isn't whether or not you had a tough upbringing and that's factually correct or you didn't this this this and the point is they don't don't speak your truth. >> Yeah. >> Do as you're told. >> Yeah. >> Crazy.
32:22
>> I mean and we've never been that's just never what art has been about.
32:24
Like art has been such a key point in political history.
32:27
Like what like in war there was the Beatles. >> Yeah. >> You know what I mean?
32:32
Like there's there Nina Simone there's so many parts where things were just an artist saying I have a They're probably in the room by themselves for all we know. I have a thought.
32:43
I have a passion about something.
32:43
I have a good feeling about something. I'm just making a song.
32:45
Did we know that these things would then become >> Well, yes and no.
32:50
Your your consciousness, I'm sure, would never pick up on it, but there is something very beautiful and spiritually connected between the um artistic process and the reality of what we live in.
33:00
It's a bit It's a bit chicken and egg, but I can never figure out which which one comes first. >> and egg. Yeah. Oh, no.
33:11
There's been some freaky manifestation moments in my life where I wrote the song, I wrote the album, and then I lived it afterwards, and everybody then confused the timeline. >> what I'm saying.
33:20
>> I was like, "This must have happened before."
33:21
And I'm like, "No, no, no.
33:21
I think I got to be careful what I write."
33:24
>> And that becomes a problem cuz then you're like, "I don't want to speak into existence, but I feel it so crazy >> No, I lived my last album to the T, and I was like, "Wait a minute. Is this my fault?" >> Crazy. >> I did this to myself. >> Crazy. >> Afterwards. Yeah, it was crazy. >> Going in circles.
33:39
>> Whole time I'm just like, "I want to I want to make a conceptual album and I have concepts I want to think about."
33:43
And then I lived the out them concepts.
33:46
>> your voice inside was just like, "I hate to break it to you.
33:47
It's going to happen one way or the other."
33:49
>> I got to start just writing, "I need a million dollars."
33:53
>> Congratulations on your million dollars, by the way.
33:55
>> I want to save the world, you know?
33:57
>> Congratulations on saving the world, by the way. >> Speak it. Speak it into my life.
34:02
>> [laughter] [gasps] >> I said at the beginning of the conversation, one of the things that really jumps out across this body of work is not just that the songs know each other so beautifully, and and that each one of them holds their holds their position in this overall experience in such a lovely way, but the quality of the of the music is just >> who you worked with and how you brought it to life.
34:19
You know, I'm obsessed with your vocal lines and your runs.
34:21
I'm obsessed with your harmonies.
34:22
I know you work really hard on those.
34:24
I'm obsessed obsessed with the >> Hey, you know I I a little signature scale thing happening >> [clears throat] >> here.
34:31
>> do >> a signature scale thing in there, you know, and I love it.
34:33
So, how much fun was it to perform these songs and and give us some examples of some moments as you're making the record that just kind of like were out of the box spiritually beautiful.
34:42
>> You know, I think writing is one thing and then vocals is one thing and that was something that I admired so much about what Brandy and LaShawn Daniels had.
34:51
Um him knowing her capabilities and then using his little freaky deaky mind, you know, rest his soul to create this like universe of like choices that were hers that this generation really got to learn from.
35:03
And when I met Dixon, who I love so much, and the way that we work together on vocals is like usually me trying something, him telling me I can sing higher than I think I can.
35:18
>> [laughter] >> Me saying, "I can't sing that."
35:19
Him being like, "You've done it before.
35:20
You can do this live, so you can do it in here. Push it."
35:23
Or me being like, "No, no, no, I think I need to do that five more times."
35:27
And him being like, "You got the take like 10 times ago."
35:28
But we treat all of these things differently creating the actual song.
35:34
I go and live with the song for a while.
35:37
And then I go do a recut because usually when I'm first writing the song, I really consider my songwriting and my me as a vocalist two completely different things.
35:47
And I also like low-key produced a lot on this album.
35:50
It was a lot of like my sound choices and what I wanted it to sound like and put that there and >> That's high-key.
35:55
>> Yeah, high-key, high-key.
35:55
Um so, once we get, you know, the the beat right and then we sit and we write the song.
36:00
We spend time diving deeper into that world.
36:03
My favorite part is getting to then take it and we recorded almost everything the final cuts in my room.
36:10
Which was really awesome.
36:10
That's like my just me, my engineer, and Dixon or me and my engineer and just kind of like zoning in and like now I know the song.
36:18
I get to live with the song.
36:18
I get to play with it and add inflections where I didn't have it when I was writing it.
36:23
And that's that's the funnest part and as far as like spiritual experiences, it was really cool to build that song that Brandy song and imagine like [clears throat] what she would sound on it cuz we didn't get to do it together cuz she was on tour. >> Yeah.
36:40
>> And actually all of those backgrounds are me.
36:44
>> [snorts] >> And I was like I just know she's about to send me 152 backgrounds and she said, "I love you so bad and here's my verse and my my bridge with you and I didn't have time to do these backgrounds but girl you handled it for us."
36:52
And I said, "I can't believe this."
36:56
>> [laughter] >> In the best way. In the best way.
37:00
>> Cuz there's also people who >> That's fan talking. >> Exactly.
37:02
I'm like I couldn't wait to see what little crazy thing she did but then she all them runs. Jesus Christ.
37:05
And you know what's cool because Brandy >> She's she's super served the song. >> She did.
37:12
>> You know, she actually did the thing that most artists wouldn't do.
37:13
A lot of artists wouldn't do and that is park their ego at the door and served what was best for the song in that moment in time.
37:19
>> Yeah and also she just like is so invested in the song being the best that it is.
37:23
Like she's literally like, "Let me know if you need more.
37:25
Let me know what you want to do.
37:26
Let me know what this is. I believe in you. I love you."
37:29
Like it's actually unreal to me that my hero is a good hero to have. You know what I mean?
37:35
Like they say don't meet your heroes but I met the out of mine and now she's like, "That's my girl."
37:42
>> That's That's going to be the name of my book if I ever write one.
37:43
Copyright this Meet your heroes cuz I cuz I have literally had nothing but an incredible lifetime of experience to learn from the greatest people on the planet.
37:52
>> And that's been my experience all over this album with all of these features.
37:53
I really wanted to like get people that I really adore and all of them just poured so much into me and it was no bad experience.
38:01
It was not a single moment of ego.
38:03
Everybody was like, "Well, I really love this." They check on me.
38:07
They speak to me outside of this.
38:07
Like they they're they're invested in what's going on right now not just oh I have a little verse on your album.
38:13
It's It's such a real a real real real thing and I'm grateful. >> Noodle >> Noodle it. Noodle it.
38:23
>> I'm getting into this one. Jam and Lewis. >> Yeah.
38:27
>> For me and anyone who knows me knows this and anyone who's a regular listener knows this.
38:32
Um I just all time for me. >> Great. As as they should be.
38:36
>> Um you know, their ability to write these songs and make you dance and give you this dynamic thing to connect to but you're crying. >> Yeah.
38:43
>> The emotion comes along for the ride.
38:44
>> talking about sex but like you're crying. >> Yeah. >> [laughter] >> Yeah.
38:48
But like they take these really big tough guys and they make them cry. >> Yeah.
38:53
>> Like in in while they're singing these songs like >> It's just unbelievable what they were able to achieve and I mean that's just I mean look from New Edition to Janet Jackson to you know, Human League to yourself to Across the Boards to Somebody New.
39:03
So let's just let's just nerd out a little bit.
39:05
Um what was the experience like getting to work with them? Simple question.
39:09
>> You know what was the craziest thing ever was I pulled up to the studio.
39:10
They have like a compound.
39:14
And when I say every inch of the wall I'm talking it's a warehouse.
39:17
How is every inch of the space just covered in history? >> I know.
39:25
>> Like photos and accolades and trophies and he Jimmy Jam walked me around and was like this is the piano I played on doesn't really matter.
39:32
Like this is the piano we use on I Get So Lonely.
39:34
Like I'm literally like And they're separate ones.
39:38
They're two separate There's like a million keyboards.
39:42
I They just have like Grammys and cases and it's it's I was walking around like low-key freaked out.
39:48
I was like a little bit of an impostor syndrome of like what am I doing?
39:54
What are we going to make?
39:55
Like >> friend of mine drove me out there telling me I was going to cuz I was writing songs at the time and he was like I want you to meet a publisher and I'm like I have a publisher.
40:02
And he's like no I want you to meet a publisher.
40:05
I'm like I have a publisher.
40:05
Why are we having a publishing meeting?
40:07
>> Why did Why did he say a publisher?
40:09
>> going to say where it is but about an hour outside of LA and I'm like you know what what the are we doing?
40:12
And we pull into this in this warehouse and I and I walk in and then he took me there and surprised me to go to go and meet Jimmy Jam. >> Oh my goodness. And you know what?
40:21
They're so sweet and kind.
40:21
And I also just love that they have never strayed from their classic outfits also.
40:27
Like I pulled up and Jimmy Jam had the hat on and I said, "Exactly."
40:37
This is the experience I dreamt about.
40:39
>> Yeah, when you listen back to the monitor mixes and you know that you've got enough and it's there and you can all you have to do now is just add nuances and just put the sprinkle on it.
40:46
That must have been one of the greatest moments of your life.
40:49
>> Yeah, it was crazy cuz basically I took the verse They have two studios.
40:50
I took the verse from I mean the the beat from Jimmy Jam's and then I went into Terry's studio and I started like writing and I was just super under confident about the song.
41:00
I remember leaving and being like "I don't know about this.
41:04
Like I don't know if I'm if that's the song for the beat.
41:07
Like I just it's it's not it's not my best." We lived with it.
41:10
We rewrote it and then what they like turned it into and when they came to the studio to do final cuts and final editions and then like pulling out their all their keyboards and giving me notes and vocal producing me and like them just not letting a single thing get cheated. >> Yeah.
41:28
>> Like they were like, "No, no, no.
41:30
We're going to need eight more eight more stacks just on that word." >> Oh, it's legendary.
41:34
You've seen the footage of Janet flipping out, right?
41:38
>> 16 of them on that word.
41:38
You can have You can have 32."
41:41
>> And they're like, "We like her.
41:41
She's got She's got She puts the wig on and Janet is just going, 'GOD DAMN IT, JIMMY JAM.
41:46
I'M NOT DOING ANOTHER TAKE.'" IT'S so good.
41:49
>> [laughter] >> And I'm just sitting there like, "Yeah, yeah, sure."
41:51
They're they're telling me what to do.
41:52
I did have my moments where I was like, "Guys, >> Yes, I'm saying.
41:56
>> how much more can I sing? My voice is gone. >> It's so good.
41:59
>> Especially cuz they they had to walk me through the like basically the original version that's just solo cuz I had to then send it to Brandy for her to cut. >> Mhm.
42:06
>> So I'm singing this and I'm like, "Gosh, you don't want to just let her have it?"
42:09
Like they're like, "No, we need to make sure you get this version so we can send everything out perfectly cuz they're so they're crossing their t's and they're dotting their i's and it's such a like a level of quality that is so missing from like our generation in general.
42:21
I really don't want to separate myself or seem like I'm separate.
42:26
I think a couple of statements I've made recently have come off like I was like separating myself from like my peers in R&B and I was definitely a part of the like laziness for a long time of just but it's it's >> I mean cut cut the record put the record out make another record and just keep it moving. >> sound good? Y'all feel it? Do it slap in the car? Cool, we can move on.
42:43
But there's just this application of like extreme attention to detail that like the OGs had that was like you're going to feel every bit of this and we need to comb through it so that even if we press play on the acapella or we just play the beat or we just play the bridge that like you still feel the same way about the song and it was just really it was such a cool student opportunity for me and like just some nerdy Just nerd alert for sure. >> Nerd alert for sure.
43:10
You know, I I think that that that desire to just like make it >> [laughter] >> That's why don't this is like I'll separate myself.
43:19
This is what people are going to be like, "All right, but you you >> my >> Dude has lost his mind.
43:25
I'm not a big fan of the term drop when it comes to music. >> Mhm.
43:29
>> Sounds like sneakers to me. >> Mhm.
43:31
>> And my thing is like you're going to drop a song like >> Yeah. >> don't like it.
43:35
I'm really word orientated.
43:37
>> Yeah, you like release. >> I like just release. You know, I like it.
43:41
>> now that you mention it that sounds drastically different. >> Right?
43:45
When I'm I dropped a song like well, pick it up, man. >> Yeah.
43:48
>> Like >> [laughter] >> why did you drop it for?
43:49
You've been all this time making it.
43:50
Why did you just drop it?
43:52
Like you just pick it up. >> all that's so real.
43:54
>> get it and I understand it and it has its place in terminology and I'm sure I use it and I'm sure I'm contradicting myself every day but but I just think it speaks to what you're saying about this idea that like a life well lived you need to put the same care into the creating or the recreation of the experience than you did than you had in the experience in itself.
44:08
And you didn't live that experience quickly most of the time.
44:12
Most of the time it had to marinate and live with you and become something that you want to write about. >> Absolutely.
44:16
>> So you're going to put the same time in.
44:18
>> Yeah, and they just they they put Bell to ass. They put Bell to ass. I was sitting in there.
44:24
I'm I'm looking at [snorts] boxes of like cassette tapes of demos. Freaking the out.
44:32
Like New Edition demo 1991.
44:37
Like I'm like >> Any hot break level?
44:38
Like what what what is on that?
44:41
>> I'm like, you got a You got a cassette thingy I can borrow?
44:44
>> What is What is on that?
44:46
>> [laughter] >> You got a tape player I can borrow cuz I need to hear this right now. >> It's crazy.
44:50
>> And they're just sitting around. >> I know.
44:52
They're nonchalant about that stuff, but deadly serious about the rest of it.
44:56
Like life serious about the rest of it. >> Absolutely.
45:00
>> You know, I feel like you and Usher on this album is a flawless victory. It was inevitable.
45:05
And I feel like Folded was the final step of like, you know what?
45:10
It was just going to happen again and we're going to do this.
45:13
So let's talk a little bit about that because I know that's a really important song to you and it's it's out front of the record and and is representing the record to some degree.
45:18
So tell us a little bit of story about making that one.
45:21
>> It's so funny because it like the the defining moment of that song happened in this room.
45:26
I was here doing my takeover.
45:30
And you know, Chris >> Apple Music. >> Yes, at Apple Music. And Chris was with me.
45:35
And he goes I think he like said it lightly like, yeah, we got the Usher feature.
45:39
Like I think you guys were asking me like >> [clears throat] >> if I could have gotten anybody on the Folded remix that didn't come on the pack and I said Usher.
45:48
And he was like, yeah, we he's on the album.
45:50
And I literally wrote back and said, do we want to spill those beans right now?
45:53
>> Yes, [laughter] that's right. I remember that.
45:55
>> I said, are we spilling the beans? And he said, yeah.
45:57
And I said, we got a Usher feature.
46:00
>> up in a meeting cuz someone was like, and Kehlani He a radio show as well, which was fantastic.
46:02
And I think we got an Usher exclusive, but I'm not 100% sure.
46:06
>> [laughter] >> That you we pause, we go on break. >> Yeah.
46:10
>> He FaceTimes me or calls me.
46:10
And I'm like, "There's no way you heard that that fast.
46:14
You're not tuned in to my Apple Music thing right now, Usher." >> Mhm.
46:19
>> And there's no way fans got this and sent it to you because I was also online. >> Yeah, yeah.
46:23
>> He said, "Oh, that's great.
46:23
I I just called to tell you I think we need a different song." >> Wow.
46:28
>> "I don't like our song." >> Wow, good for him. >> Exactly.
46:32
My brain didn't go "Oh, he hates me."
46:34
My brain went, "Oh, he really cares."
46:39
>> Yeah, and it was such a valuable lesson.
46:41
Like, I went over to his house after. We played so much music.
46:44
We listened to my whole album.
46:46
We listened to stuff that he's been working on.
46:48
We were talking about like perspective-wise, where are we at with it based on the reality of our two worlds, how do we coexist on a song, what do we want to bring out of each other, if we're going to shoot a video, do we need to dance, does it have to be a danceable song?
47:00
Like, we really combed through all of it.
47:01
And it ended up being like a way longer process.
47:04
It was like a couple more times of hanging out and trying to get through it and sending songs back and forth and calling in our collaborators and kind of putting our brains together and ended up being Babyface, which [snorts] is so cool.
47:17
So, it's like the freaking Babyface [clears throat] song is the Usher song. It's like, "What?"
47:23
>> was like, "This is your life."
47:23
It's literally >> [laughter] >> Literally, I'm like, "The What is happening?"
47:29
And again, it's something that I'm I'm currently applying all over the place.
47:33
Like, when people are sending me songs and I'm like, "You know, is this the song we need to put out in the world between us right now versus You know me, I'm the feature king.
47:39
Like, I'll just throw a little verse and send it out."
47:42
And now I'm like, "Wait, >> Is there intention here?" >> Yeah.
47:45
And if you're really this good and I consider myself to be good at what I do, then maybe we should make sure it's really great and we've put the care behind it and >> Yeah.
47:55
>> He he really like it was it was hours of us like this.
48:02
>> I could totally see him doing this to me.
48:04
>> Literally listening to the song and he's like, I don't know.
48:06
And I'm like, I I also don't know.
48:09
>> [laughter] >> Plays another one. We're both like, What?
48:14
I for a second there I was like, I it, guys. I it.
48:16
I told everybody I told everybody at Apple.
48:18
And now everybody's going Usher Usher and now we're like, we don't have it. But now we got the song.
48:26
>> I'm so happy he did that. >> his He did his rap. He did his Usher rap.
48:30
I got to I got to Usher rap.
48:33
And for the like super super fan in me, it was it's one of the coolest moments on the project to me, for sure.
48:40
>> You are just living your super fan dreams. >> My inner child.
48:43
That is That is my inner child. >> love the artwork.
48:47
I'm glad you brought it up because to me, and I and we're not trauma bonding. >> We're not.
48:52
>> But this is um to me almost a reflection of the person I met in 2016, but happy. >> Yeah.
49:00
>> Your hair was the same. >> it on purpose. >> I know.
49:03
>> I love when the dots connect. >> I know. And I love that.
49:05
It's like it's it's like um there's a parallel universe going on and that young person that And can I can I say something?
49:13
I'm trying to get emotional.
49:16
When I met you the first time it was at a South by South Southwest thing and you were in so much pain, dude. >> Yeah.
49:22
>> You were just like not you were there was not >> even there. >> behind the eyes. I remember.
49:26
>> Yeah, I was probably on drugs.
49:28
>> I have a photo of you me and Thug and you were not there. >> Yeah.
49:31
>> But that you that is what you looked like from a physical point of view in terms of like the the features and the attributes and the hair and the things that stand out, but there's light in the eyes.
49:41
And I I'm I'm glad that you acknowledge that cuz I did see it and I thought, I wonder if this is a message in a way.
49:47
>> [snorts] >> Yes, even from like the same like side my of that first album.
49:50
my of that first album. You know when that first album came out, I had ended up putting it off for like 6 months cuz I went through that massive giant heartbreaking thing in 2016 and I remember my 21st birthday and thinking
50:03
around like I'm going through this at 21 and like people are smacking me around like I'm in my 30s and I'm like I basically a kid experiencing this and still had to thug through releasing that album cuz the label was like we've held off for so long like you we're we're behind you. Let's just press the button.
50:19
Let's just press the button.
50:20
I had fully been like I never want to be seen in public ever again.
50:24
I never want to go outside.
50:24
I was experiencing so many mental health issues and I moved to New York and all these things were happening and touring the album was rough.
50:32
It was like having to get up every day and face so many fears that people were just completely unaware of and to be able to like say I wish I could go back and like this person could tell that person in that cover like yo, you're about to do it.
50:47
Like not just in a career way, but you're going to be okay and you're going to thrive and you're going to have a family and you're going to you're going to be taken care of and you're going to be mentally well and you're going to be like yeah, not just surviving, but really thriving like I'm really glad that she she gets to do this in this way and it's I shot this artwork twice.
51:06
This is the second option.
51:06
The first one we shot and it just felt it's a brilliant photo.
51:11
The photographer's brilliant.
51:13
The the art it's it's out of this world.
51:15
We went to Paris to shoot it, but I started looking at it and being like I don't know if this reflects the honesty in this music.
51:22
I don't know if this sounds like what I'm looking at. >> Yeah. >> And so I went back.
51:27
I said I think I have to cut my hair. >> Mhm.
51:30
>> I don't have any hair under here. Let's be very clear. I'm bald-headed.
51:34
But what keeps happening is I keep getting >> way.
51:35
I don't have any hair under here either. >> Look at us bald. >> Bald.
51:39
>> [laughter] >> I keep like dying it and shaving it again, but it's so refreshing to just be bald. Boom. >> Look at us bald. >> I just had to do it.
51:47
I had to do it for Sweet Sexy Savage for sure. >> Yeah, it's emotional. >> Yeah.
51:53
>> It's really beautiful.
51:53
It is a beautiful tribute.
51:56
>> And you know what else?
51:56
Some of these songs are the first times I've been back in the room with Pop and Oak at the same time as a production duo since that album. >> That's crazy.
52:06
>> And we were all sitting around looking at each other like, this is so Sweet Sexy Savage recorded in Philadelphia Milk Studios coded like it's so cool.
52:15
>> I'm so happy for you, mate. >> Thank you.
52:18
>> know, I mean you know we don't know each other well, but we like each other. >> We do.
52:22
>> And I'm just really happy that you're here and you're in such a good place.
52:23
Um we're fast forwarding to unlearn a really another special a kind of a a prayer of self-acceptance and understanding of what's important.
52:33
Sending a message to others, but also very much to yourself. >> Yeah, for sure.
52:37
It's you know, when you hear Love by Musiq Soulchild and they always say, you know, if you replace love in that song with God then it becomes a gospel song.
52:48
And to have be able to do something like this and kind of live my big R&B gospel at the end of the album dreams, um it was really cool.
52:56
And this funny little Easter egg there is as I was working on this song in one room, Ryan Leslie and Chris were working on songs in the other room and I was like, guys I really need a choir if y'all could just come into the studio with me real quick.
53:06
So randomly in that choir moment at the end somewhere in there Ryan Leslie's like tucked >> That's amazing [laughter] because >> like and his friend and his friend's girlfriend like everybody that the engineer everybody was in the room just like >> Yeah.
53:21
>> singing in the song and >> Supporting.
53:23
>> Yeah, and it it was so fun to do.
53:23
I have background vocals from some of my friends in there just you hear the male vocals just like getting so spicy at the end and it's a song that I feel like my 19-year-old self would think is like the best song in the whole world.
53:38
>> Speaking of your 19-year-old self, um can we just on the way out the door just give an extra special shout out to your homie Alicia Liu in the BAY AREA THAT >> YO, OAKLAND IS ON fire. >> Seriously.
53:52
>> always has been like we knew it, but it's really cool when the world Uh-huh, shout out to literally everyone.
53:59
We always knew, but it's really cool when we're having a moment and like everybody's like yo in every facet of the industry right now like we're super up.
54:07
>> I just love the fact that that that yourself and her took it home immediately. >> Yeah. >> Like immediately.
54:12
It wasn't like we'll see you when we get back.
54:13
It's like we're already back. >> Yeah, for sure.
54:16
She used to literally skate at the Oakland ice rink and we went to the same like high school for a second.
54:21
Like art school across the street from the ice rink.
54:23
So, that was cool getting to nerd out about that and then we got to have her hometown celebration and all the kids from the school are like filled up the whole little like floor part of the celebration.
54:34
It was just it's so trippy having these full circle moments and like really knowing it in the moment that it's happening.
54:41
>> experiencing a three generational thing going on there because you're at a point now where your kid is seven and she's early 20s maybe and you're maybe 10 years older or whatever and so it's like and everyone is meeting in this beautiful place.
54:52
This commonality >> of just greatness right now. So cool.
54:58
>> Uh, Kehlani, I've had this this has been my favorite conversation we've ever had and it doesn't surprise me because you're in the best space you've ever been and you've made the best music you've ever made.
55:06
So, I I would have to work very hard to this up and I hope [laughter] I haven't. >> You have not. Thank you so much.
55:12
>> It's been so lovely to see you and I just wish you nothing but continued success and love in your life. >> Thank you so much. I appreciate it.