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I knew something was wrong with me.
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Um, and I just couldn't put my finger on it and I kept going to the doctor and I kept, you know, saying, "No, there's something wrong.
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There's something wrong."
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Um, they attributed everything to my lack of sleep and that I work too hard and all of these things.
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And And then they eventually found out that it was thyroid cancer.
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And I call it my baby cancer because there I knew from the very beginning that there is a very small, very small minute chance that it could be life-threatening. I did know that.
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But what I didn't realize, I guess, at that time was how life-changing it would be. Hello, everyone.
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Welcome back to On Purpose.
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Thank you so much for making a commitment to your growth, your personal development, and transforming your love, your work, and your life by continuing to be a part of this community.
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And that's exactly what we're building here.
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We're building a community where you can connect with other like-minded people, where we can start spreading powerful messages all across the world through this incredible online world that we all have access to.
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And today's guest is someone that I learned about recently, but the way she's using her platform, the way she's using the influence she has, and the messages she's spreading are so aligned with our community.
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It's absolutely incredible to see what she's doing, and I can't wait for you to learn about her story and her journey, which is nothing short of inspirational.
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She's an American actress and producer, and she's best known for starring in Battlestar Galactica and Netflix's new series called Another Life.
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Her name is Katee Sackhoff.
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Katee, thank you for being here.
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Thank you so much for having me.
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I am so excited to be here.
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I'm so grateful to have you here. Oh, thank you very much.
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Because I truly believe everything I just shared to introduce you, and I feel like we want the audience today to get to know you and the depths of you, which you've never been asked about before maybe and you still use your Instagram profile beautifully to share all these messages.
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So, if any of you don't follow Katie already, go ahead and follow her because you're just so effortlessly and honestly and through vulnerability just bringing all of these incredible topics to the fore.
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So, thank you for doing that.
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Oh, well, thank you so much.
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I like I said, I'm such a huge fan.
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I I love the community that you are forming. It's I'm in it. I I follow you.
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I have been for a quite a while now and I just it's such a safe place for people to be honest and talk about the things that are on their mind and the things that plague them and their worries and their fears and and and that is such a powerful thing and and it's just inspiring. So, thank you. you.
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I'm so glad you're part of the community.
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I'm glad I get to meet you.
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I I always love it whenever someone's a part of the community, I love for them to come up and tell me that Yeah.
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because I just want to give them a big hug.
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And and and and anyway, your energy since you walked in today has just been so welcoming and so beautiful that I I want everyone to experience that through the camera and through their ears. Well, I I hope so. I wish they could.
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If everyone was here, I would just hug you. She actually did it. She actually did it.
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I When she walked in, I was politely going to shake Katie's hand and then and then like 2 seconds later, we just hugged each Yeah, I do.
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I feel like it's the the quickest way to feel somebody's energy and their warmth and and to let them know that it's a safe place and so I I try to give really meaningful, loving hugs. that.
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Now, I'm scared what you could read through my hugs.
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Now, I'm like, "Oh my god, I'd like This is about you.
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This interview is about But no, this is such a wonderful opportunity for me and the audience to get to learn more about you, your story, your background and we almost wouldn't be having this conversation if you ended up becoming a swimmer. It's true. It's very true.
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I thought that that's what I was supposed to do.
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You know, I think so many times when we're little and you find something that you gravitate towards because you're good at it.
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Um it's not really necessarily something you enjoy doing and I think there is a very big difference between where you find your joy and what you're good at and sometimes there is a it's they're not the same thing, you know, and for me I was I I was a very good swimmer and I hated it.
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a very good swimmer and I hated it. Um so when I got hurt it was like this weird crazy blessing in disguise where it finally gave me the courage to say to my parents I don't really want to do this anymore and it was my path, you know, that was sort of where I saw myself going and and um it took me a while to figure out what I wanted to do after that, but my mom was very
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instrumental in getting me out of the house and getting me like to to go try new things and she found this this ad in the paper to go be Kirsten Dunst's body double and she was like let's just get her out of the house like she's so sad right now and and so I went down and they had said you're you know, you're too tall, you're too big to be Kirsten Dunst's body double, but um would you want to audition for this part? Do you Do you know how to act?
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And of course I was like absolutely I know how to act and I was terrified and I went home and my mom helped me memorize that and I booked the job and sort of like never looked back. Yeah. Wow. Yeah.
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that and I and I love how it's sometimes something negative that happens to us that actually awakens us to what we're meant to do. Yeah.
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And and we're all so different.
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And and we're all so different. I was speaking and because you spoke about swimming I was speaking at a conference last week and Michael Phelps spoke spoke uh after me and he was talking about mental health which is he's such a big
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proponent for which is incredible, but you know, he was talking about how all he wanted to do to do was swim and all he knows how to do is swim and here we have someone you're saying that actually I could do that, but I was good at it, but I didn't love it. Like I wasn't
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Like I wasn't passionate about it. passionate about it.
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It didn't give me any joy.
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I I hated going to practice.
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I just I really didn't enjoy it, but I didn't have I didn't grow up in a family where we talked about emotions and so for me to go home and say to my mom and dad, you know, I don't enjoy this.
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I don't get joy out of this.
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I don't I don't think that they would have understood that.
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I think they would have just been like, "But you're good at it. I don't understand."
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Um and so it took that injury for me to be able to pursue something that I actually something where I could actually experience joy.
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Wow, I love this actually and I know you said that you did one of my courses recently.
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But the what you're saying right now is resonating so closely with me because I've got a new course coming out and in that I talk about this quadrant of potential and I talk about how we waste most of our lives in this box called what we're good at but don't love. Yes.
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And and where we really want to be spending most of our time is things that we're not good at but do love or things that we're good at and do love.
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And now you've found that.
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Well, that's the thing is that I think a lot of times the thing that you're good at you have to struggle to love.
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And and when you love something, becoming good at it is easy.
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It it's because you love it.
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So I think that that's that's one of the main things that I My dad used to always say to me that find what you love doing and then figure out how to make that your career. Yeah.
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That was his his best advice to me that he'd ever given me because and it so many people say very similar things about like, you know, um you'll never work a day in your life if you find something you enjoy, things like that.
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But he really hammered that home for me and and um and that's I think what led me to to acting.
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Where did that journey start then from being a body double to now being in the industry for two decades Yeah.
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and like working to improve your art, your skill, that mastery that you're speaking about.
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Like obviously acting came upon you and it became a thing but then how did you go through that process of really developing your skills and your art? Yeah.
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You know, it's I like to say that I'm an overpaid compulsive liar.
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And I I think that acting is all about conveying an emotion and getting someone to believe it.
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Um and so for me, I never studied.
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I just um I learned how to fake it for a very long time.
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And because that's all I knew how to do, Um and then I was on Battlestar Galactica and I wasn't taking it very seriously and Eddie almost actually pulled me aside and he gave me the lecture of all lectures and said to me that if you actually tried, I think you would actually be really good at this.
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And I was like, "What do you mean? I'm already here."
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And and he he was very serious.
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He was like, "You have an opportunity that so many people wish they had and you've got to take it seriously."
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And I wasn't, you know, at that point I was 21 years old and I was just having fun.
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And I realized that you can you can have fun while still taking responsibility and and taking something seriously.
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And but it was a weird road for me. It was very strange.
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I I I did fall sort of right into a job, which was great, but I fought a lot against the the norm and what people wanted me to be.
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They saw me as this little blonde girl and they wanted me to play a very specific role and I wasn't drawn to those roles.
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I didn't have the courage to say, "No, I don't want to do that.
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I want to do something else."
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Until Battlestar came up and it was this role that was this tough, you know, take no prisoners, honest woman who wasn't scared of anything.
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And it's who I wanted to be.
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I was not that person, but I was so drawn to her as a role model for myself that I was desperate to play her and I wouldn't take no for an answer.
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And I would I think I auditioned for it like six or seven times and I just wouldn't go back like I just wouldn't quit. I just kept going back.
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And I don't know how I got it, but you know, by the grace of God I did.
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But it was it was one of those weird things where I never I never took no for an answer in this business.
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If somebody told me no, I never took it personally.
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I just went, "Okay, great.
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Let's move on to the next one.
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Um, and I didn't have a plan B.
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I I didn't think failure was an option, and I think that that was just the blissful ignorance of a child, but I I just didn't think that failure was going to happen, and so I I pushed through.
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Um, and my parents allowed me to do that, you know, they sort of saw how driven I was and just went, "Okay, I guess she's going to do this." Yeah, I love that.
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So, you're saying actually you auditioned six to seven times, and so you heard that no Mhm. that many times. Yeah.
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What do you think it was for you that's helped you push through a no every time you hear it?
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And I love the way you said that, you know, you didn't take it personally. Mhm.
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Tell me about how you were able to because I think today when we hear the word no, we all take it personally.
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It's very common, and I know a lot of the people listening right now or watching right now will think, "Well, when I hear no, I just think like, oh, I'm not good enough, or I don't have what it takes."
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Like, how did you take that no?
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Yeah, it it you know, I think one of one of the best things we can teach our children is that not everybody's going to like you, and that's okay.
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You know, I my mom was like, "You're not You're not going to be everyone's cup of tea."
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And that doesn't mean there's something wrong with you.
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It just means that, you know, they're a different person, they're going in a different direction.
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And so, when people told me no, I just it it it it lit this fire inside of me that wanted to keep going, but I didn't take it personally because I've always thought that acting was art, and it's subjective.
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And I can look at a Picasso and not get it. Yeah. You know?
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I mean, and and so people can have an opinion about me and not get it, and that's okay.
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It has no bearing on myself-worth and and who I am and what I have to give to the the industry of of acting or life in general, you know?
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And I think that um that is is one of the things that my mom and dad instilled in me from a very young age was was that that you know who you are is not what you do.
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And who you are is so much more important than anything else you're ever going to do.
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You know, my dad said at the end of your life you don't want to drop the mic and go oh that was fun.
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I lived a great life for myself.
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You know, he's like at the end of your life you you you question whether you loved greatly, whether people knew that you loved greatly and that's your contribution.
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And and so it was it never to live for yourself but to live for others was a big thing and when you live for others you don't take it personally if one person says that you know you're not good enough. Yeah, I love that.
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Your parents sound like incredible people.
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They're incredible people that have screwed up a lot.
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I think that you learn from mistakes and my parents never hid those mistakes.
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They they made mistakes and went wow, that was a great mistake.
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Let's sit down and talk about it.
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And so that's sort of how I attack it with other people where is like I make a ton of mistakes. I made five today.
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Um but that's the only way you learn.
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You know, you can learn by watching other people's mistakes but you can also learn from your own and I've made some pretty big doozies.
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Um What mistakes did you make today? Today today let's see. you made five today.
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You don't have to come You don't have to tell me all five.
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You don't have to tell me all five.
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I drank way too much coffee today.
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It's a little mistake today but no I am I do I make little mistakes every day but it's it's how we learn it's how we grow.
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And I loved what you said about failure that you never accepted failure was possible.
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And what I'm gaining from that and I'd love for everyone who's listening and watching right now to recognize this is failure is when you stop trying. Of course. Right?
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And so like you kept going that's why you didn't accept failure.
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Whereas what we do is we take that event as failure.
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When actually failure is when you stop trying.
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So the fact that you kept pushing meant you you saying hey I'm not going to fail. Of course.
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And whereas, when you take that no as a failure, Mhm.
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and lots of us do, we take that no as equivalent to failure. Yeah.
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And that feels a lot harder to take.
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So, I love that point you made.
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Well, we don't really know what our destiny is and what our journey is until the end of our life.
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You know, that is the the perspective that hindsight gives you, but you don't know what it is until the end.
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So, you don't you can't possibly know if you failed until you're at the end. Yeah.
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So, so why should we say, "Oh gosh, this didn't go the way that I wanted, so I failed." Yes.
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You know, it it didn't go the way you wanted, so something else is going to happen. Absolutely. mean you failed.
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It just means this one thing didn't go the way you wanted. Yeah.
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But in a it'll become very evident as you go along why it didn't work Totally. the way you wanted it. Totally. Yeah. Absolutely. I'm so aligned with you.
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I actually don't know anything in my life that's happened the way I wanted. Yeah, right? Nothing.
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I couldn't think of one thing Yeah.
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that's happened in my life the way I wanted it to.
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And so, I've often said to people, I'm like, "You'll get to where you want in life, just not in the way you imagined it." Yeah.
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And the journey is just so different from what you imagined.
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So, just become detached from how you want that journey to look, because it's going to surprise you or delight you, it'll confuse you.
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And I feel that you have to be open to that path. Yes.
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And that's what gets us Well, and that's what adults try and tell us when we're children, right?
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They try to tell you this is such a small part of your life.
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Like, it it doesn't matter.
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And when you're young, you don't believe that.
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You know, it's only as you get older you start to realize that nothing happens the way you want it to happen.
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And that is the beauty of life.
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Like, we are in control of our own destiny and we we can we are a series of our choices, but but the choices you make, you are also on a ride, and you don't know where you're going to be tomorrow.
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Um and it's sort of like a choose your own adventure story.
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You you have the choice to go right, but the story's going to keep going, and then you're going to have to choose again.
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And and so you have no idea what's going to happen.
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So failure isn't an option because I don't believe failure exists. Yeah, I love that. So powerful. Incredibly powerful. Amazing.
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You've already in the in the few minutes we've been speaking you've already dropped so many great messages and lessons for our audience. It's amazing.
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I I wanted to talk about this because I believe it must have been one of the most challenging things to go through and at 27 you went through thyroid cancer. Yeah, I did. Right?
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Which is just I can't fathom how tough that is and how much it affects so much of you. Mhm.
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Walk us through that experience of finding out and how that started to affect because you already had Battlestar Galactica Galactica you had already had that breakthrough etc.
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Tell me about how that affected everything from your mind, your body, your career and and how you started to push through.
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When I got thyroid cancer it was I knew something was wrong with me um and I just couldn't put my finger on it and I kept going to the doctor and I kept you know saying no there's something wrong there's something wrong.
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Um they attributed everything to my lack of sleep and that I worked too hard and all of these things and and then they eventually found out that it was thyroid cancer and I call it my baby cancer because there I knew from the very beginning that there is a very small very small minute chance that it could be life threatening. I did know that.
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But what I didn't realize I guess at that time was how life changing it would be.
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It was the first time in my life where I felt completely out of control. Um I was scared. I was depressed.
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I was I was terrified actually um because it felt I was all of a sudden reminded of how fragile life was.
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And so I went through this time and I had this deal with with my my boyfriend at the time my ex who's still a good friend of mine that I gave myself 10 minutes a day to feel very, very sorry for myself and to cry and to scream and to yell and do whatever I wanted to do and then I wouldn't do it again for the rest of the day.
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And um that became a very, very important thing because I think that we can feel sorry for ourselves sometimes and we lose perspective in that sorrow of how lucky we still are with the thing that is considered our excuse me.
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But um what I did was I realized like how lucky I was in that moment and so we came up with this thing called the three things.
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And my three things is that in any situation in your life where you find yourself angry or frustrated or sad or anything, come up with three ways, little ways, they don't need to be massive, three things that could make this situation much worse.
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And it can be very If you're in traffic and you're going to be late for a meeting and this things it feels like the worst thing that could be happening at this moment in your life.
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Come up with three things that can make it worse.
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You could have a flat tire right now. Um it could be raining.
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Um and you could have a migraine headache.
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Three things, three little things that could make this one moment so much worse.
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And all of a sudden you're you feel lucky and blessed that it's only that you're sitting in traffic.
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And you can do that with so many big things in your life, so many little things, but I find that if you sit back it gives you perspective and I learned that because I call it my baby cancer because I reminded myself constantly that it could be so much worse.
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And so it allowed me to feel grateful that it was only just that.
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Um but it changed my life.
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I'm on medication for the rest of my life.
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I um I still have three tumors in my body um that they have chosen just to watch and one's in my head and two are in my throat still.
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Um and those are life changing.
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Every 6 months I have to go to the doctor and have what's called a contrast MRI.
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And so the tumor in the pituitary gland, which is a little gland that sits like in between your eyes, like above your nose, like right in front of your brain, it it produces a hormone called prolactin.
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And prolactin is the hormone you produce when you're pregnant.
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And so because I have a tumor there, it has made it very very difficult to have children.
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And then the thyroid's taken out, so that's another reason.
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And so all of these things that I didn't think about when I was 27, that you think are just givens, um were were changed so much by just that diagnosis of thyroid cancer.
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But it made me so happy that I'm still alive.
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And at 27, which seems late, so many people are faced with this so much younger and in so much more of of a life changing way.
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But I realized at 27 that every single day we get is a gift.
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And I I became in that moment not afraid to age. Aging is a gift.
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I at that moment not afraid of what people thought about my body, not afraid of all these things that had that had plagued me in my career for so long.
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At that moment I was like, "I'm I'm going to live the rest of my life with complete utter true honesty to myself, everyone around me, because I'm so lucky I'm here."
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And so it gave me that that was such a beautiful gift.
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Talking about not knowing what's going to happen in life.
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Like I wouldn't have chosen that, but it became the thing that that formed who I am now. Wow. That's amazing.
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I love that because it sounds like when I'm listening to you, you've taken this and you said in your own words a gift. Mhm.
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And you've let it be such a driving force in your mindset towards life rather than seeing it as a as an issue or something negative.
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You've really transformed it.
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It's It's Yes, I think so.
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I I I just I I see it's so easy to get caught up in our own lives. I still do it.
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But if we stop long enough and find that perspective of how blessed we are to just have a roof over our head.
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So many people don't, you know?
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I I think that that is the thing that I focus on the most in my life and in my practices and in my meditation is just how blessed I am to just be here. Mhm.
21:41
Um and so but but that was thyroid cancer.
21:46
Thyroid cancer was a doozy. Life-changing. Absolutely. Of course.
21:49
And do you find that that 10 minutes you'd set aside to kind of vent, cry, etc.
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Well, tell me about that process. Like did that work?
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Was that a useful habit and practice during that time?
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It was really useful and I actually found that I usually didn't go 10 minutes. Mhm. You know?
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And if I if I I would it usually was crying and it was usually screaming into a pillow and I I would yell a lot.
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I'd call my mom and I would I'd get very down on myself and but it usually wouldn't last more than 10 minutes.
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It usually I usually got sick of hearing myself complain.
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And and then if if outside of that 10 minutes I came up with something that bothered me, I would remember it for tomorrow and then I'd would forget it. That's amazing.
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Because it it's it every argument and every complaint and everything that seemed so big in that moment the next day wasn't it was trivial. Yeah.
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Um and and so the 10-minute thing I still if anything big comes up and I I I I think everyone should try it.
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If you're having a bad day, give yourself 10 minutes today to just go for it. Whatever you want to do.
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If you want to go hit a punching bag, hit a punching bag. If you want to cry, cry. Scream, scream.
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Do whatever you want but get it out of your system in 10 minutes. Go to your car.
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Your car is the best place to do it cuz no one can hear you.
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Just don't drive like that. Yeah.
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No, don't don't do it while you're driving.
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cuz it's still like Exactly.
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Um it's such a great place cuz you can scream so loud. Yeah.
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And sometimes what I found was when I was screaming so loud, I actually would start laughing Mhm.
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because the sheer absurdity of it.
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Like just screaming at the top of your lungs.
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We don't do that enough as as adults. We don't scream.
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You know, as children we scream so much when we're upset.
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And as adults we learn to keep it all in.
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So, it's it's sometimes I found that 10 minutes is really great. Yeah, I agree.
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And I think we forget that that when you you're that's such a beautiful way of looking at it that when we were children we would just let it all out, get it all out, but when we become adults, we hold it in.
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And when you're holding it in, all it's doing is brewing. Yeah. Right?
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It's not going It needs to go somewhere.
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So, it's either causing a block physically or mentally for the future. And so, I love that.
23:54
And and Could you imagine adults on the ground having a temper tantrum? We should do that. Like kids in screaming.
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It would probably actually be really great.
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It would just I mean, maybe in the privacy of your own home.
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Like don't drop down on the street in Manhattan and start screaming and crying.
24:08
Or in your car as you said.
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I like that cuz it's soundproof.
24:10
But I often say that to people when you repeat your complaints out to yourself, you start to laugh at them. Yeah.
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Or you start to recognize them with perspective even if you don't laugh at them. Yes.
24:20
So, often I have coaching clients or people that I work with either write out their pain and their trouble and then read it out to themselves.
24:28
And so often on the second or third reading they're like, "I can't believe I'm complaining about this." Yeah.
24:33
Or I have people record it on a voice note and play it to themselves. Yeah.
24:37
And then you hear it as if someone else is saying it. Yeah.
24:40
And and you know, whenever we hear other people's challenges, they sound bad, but ours always sound so much worse.
24:43
But when you hear your own from the perspective of someone else sharing them with you, again they get put into perspective and you're like, "Oh, actually it's you know, I know what we can do about this."
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You know, and you start approaching it as an observer Yeah.
24:56
as opposed to a like you're the victim.
24:58
Well, it's a great thing to do for body image, too. I learned this.
25:03
Body image for me has always been very hard.
25:05
You know, I was told from from the moment I came to California to be an actress that I was too big. I was called chubby.
25:11
I was called the big girl. I was called everything.
25:14
I was just They called me the big girl from the show with Richard Dreyfuss.
25:18
Like I was called all of these things that were used to explain who I was that were just physical. And and also so mean. Like So mean. Yeah.
25:28
You're you're insinuating that if I was the big girl that something would be wrong with me.
25:32
But then you're also using that to describe who I am as a person, which was so heartbreaking.
25:37
And so I had a therapist one time say to me that the next time you're going to say, "God, I'm ugly." Or "God, I'm fat."
25:44
Or whatever it is, to actually do it in the mirror. Mhm.
25:47
And so I started doing this many years ago where if I had a day where I was like, "God, you know, my ass looks terrible."
25:55
I would say it in the mirror.
25:55
And you laugh because you realize you would never say that to your worst enemy's face.
26:00
Why are you saying it to yourself?
26:02
You know, you are like you are the one person you have to spend the rest of your life with.
26:05
Why are you being so cruel?
26:07
And and so that to me was so important.
26:10
So even now when I'm like have you know, anything that I want to say negative about myself, I walk to a mirror and I say it to my face.
26:16
And you just go, "God, I would never say this to someone.
26:20
Don't say it to yourself." Wow.
26:23
And what have you started saying to yourself in addition or substitution? Or is that what it is?
26:27
When you hear something negative, you go to the mirror, you say it to yourself, and then you laugh at it because yeah, just you would like you said, you would never say it to even someone you don't like or Yeah, absolutely.
26:37
you would never say that to anyone.
26:39
You know, the thing that I started doing was if I found something where I wanted to say my three things were like, I guess I just put this with everything in my life.
26:45
Everything's in threes, I guess.
26:47
But but it's it's point out something you love about yourself.
26:49
Point out three things that you love about yourself.
26:52
Like it could be as simple as like, you know, oh, I love my cheekbone or I love, you know, I have great hands or whatever they are.
26:58
Just give yourself a compliment, you know?
27:00
Like we can we can always find something in ourselves that that we appreciate. Absolutely.
27:05
I always say to people, I'm like, you're not you would never say that to your younger brother or younger sister. No.
27:11
Like you would never go up to them.
27:11
You would never go up to anyone in your family or anyone you know and say that.
27:16
And if they said that about themselves, you'd say, "No, that's not true."
27:17
Like you need to work on this or maybe we should try this, but you wouldn't say, "Yeah, sure, that's exactly what you are." No.
27:23
Because again, like what you said earlier, that doesn't define who that person is. No.
27:28
And and it's something that's always in flux.
27:30
And you said also thyroid cancer changed your relationship with food. It did. Right? In a big way. It did, very much so.
27:35
So, I, you know, I used to binge eat as as a young adult, constantly.
27:41
It was one of those things that they think the industry brought it out in me.
27:44
I also think I probably had it bit of this when I was a child.
27:46
But I would go and I'd sneak food.
27:48
I wouldn't work I wouldn't eat all day long and then I would go and I would just eat a ton of food.
27:54
Um and then I would go to the gym for hours the next day to counteract what I had just eaten.
27:58
And it was just this vicious cycle um where I had to when I had the thyroid cancer, I had to sit down and figure out what healthy meant to me, which which was very different than for somebody else, but what it meant to me and and my relationship with food and I had to slow down and actually start to question what what I was hiding.
28:20
what what I was hiding. And that's when I started going to therapy a lot was was when I was actually hiding this sort of um in relation to the thyroid, I had this survivor's guilt almost that my cancer I felt so guilty that mine was such a small cancer because I would
28:42
still have to go to the the doctor's office and see patients that that had these terrible forms of cancer that they were really really fighting through and I always walked in there and felt so guilty and I I had to work through that and and that was not easy. It took many years to
29:04
It took many years to sort of let go of that.
29:08
There was shame in it too.
29:11
I felt so bad and and didn't know how to articulate that.
29:13
Tell us about that process of giving up guilt and shame because I think in so many different ways we all experience that.
29:20
It may not be in the same way as you did but I think guilt and shame are those types of feelings that actually never get let out.
29:25
It's the ones we hold on to the most. we think we're ugly. Totally. Exactly.
29:28
That's they're just the hardest to explain to someone. Yeah.
29:32
And express to someone and expect empathy back.
29:34
Tell us a bit about how you kind of broke those down and and dissolve them in your life.
29:38
For me it was forgiving myself and having compassion for myself.
29:43
You know, I didn't have any control over what other people were going through.
29:47
I only had control over myself and and how it it affected me on the inside and I had to forgive myself for for um taking life for granted ahead of time.
30:00
I felt like I you know was was taking my life for granted in that moment and and I forgave myself for all of that but that was just it was just having compassion for myself and realizing you may not have an answer for this.
30:12
You may not be able to deal with that guilt.
30:14
You may not that that may not be something you can figure out but that's okay and and it has no bearing on who you are as how if you're a good person or not.
30:24
Like that was it I kept thinking God I can't be a good person if if I feel shame and I feel guilt and and there's nothing I can do about it.
30:32
And um that was the the biggest thing is that we practice so many these beautiful loving techniques towards strangers and other people and our you know, like you said our younger siblings and things like that, but we are we never do that for ourselves.
30:50
And I think that if we if we did that and so for me it really had to be about learning how to love myself and and learning that I had no control over anything around me only that. Yes. Um and not my health.
31:05
For for a lot of you know, I didn't have control over that part of my health at that point.
31:13
Um I just had to to love myself and and then I tried to every time I would go to get treatment, I would look around me and I would try and send as much positive energy as I could to people.
31:29
Um and um that's what led me then to meditation and a form of um I I believe it's called Tonglen when you actually you you you breathe in a negative and you breathe out a positive and and so I tried to do that a lot while I was in there and then I the only thing I could do for those people is live my life.
31:51
So to the best of my ability and that's that's what the therapist taught me. Yeah. That's awesome. I love that.
31:57
That's it's so powerful especially that point you were making about this distinction of what we're experiencing whether it's guilt or shame or ego or pride or anger or envy.
32:08
I always tell people it's like wearing a bad outfit. Yeah.
32:12
Like we're just putting on all these layers but we're not that layer.
32:13
Like just like we're not our clothes, we're not our envy, we're not our guilt, we're not our shame.
32:20
And as soon as you realize it's not you and you can actually take it off. Yeah. And and put it away. Right. Right?
32:25
You start recognizing that actually it's just about taking off these layers and and I'm not that guilt.
32:31
Otherwise we just feel like oh, I'm so guilty or I'm so embarrassed or we keep saying I am to stuff that we're not. Yeah.
32:37
And then we get lost in that belief system that I am this emotion. Yeah.
32:43
No, I I that was one of the main things is that I had to just let it go.
32:47
Um and I had to write down a lot of the things that I felt guilty about and I felt shame about.
32:51
Um and in order to sort of let it go and realize that it didn't define me.
32:55
And then I became more honest about it as well.
32:57
And I started talking more about um if I make a mistake and I realize it, I will immediately try and say, "Oh my god, what did I just do?"
33:08
And I find that that you know, people are much more receptive to the mistakes that you make if you identify that, "Oh crap, I just did that." Absolutely.
33:16
Yeah, and I and I love how that brings us to one of these things that I absolutely love about you is how you're so vulnerable and open on social media. Mhm.
33:24
And you're just able to share who you truly are through your page.
33:28
You're able to share all the medical challenges that you have, physical challenges that you have. Just reality, too.
33:34
Not even a challenge, just as it is.
33:36
And I love the fact that you're using your platform to speak about these messages.
33:40
Tell me about what you were sharing earlier when we were just speaking.
33:42
And you talked about the word responsibility.
33:45
I'd love for you to expand on your belief around why you think you have a responsibility around this.
33:52
Yeah, it when I was on the show here in New York, my I was on a show with Richard Dreyfuss, and I was 20 years old, and I had pink hair, and people recognized me everywhere I went just because of this pink hair.
34:03
And it was right after 9/11, and this woman I was eating with my family, and this woman got very angry at me because I didn't have a pen to give her an autograph, and it was a very weird surreal moment for me, but what she said to me as she was leaving was she said that you have a responsibility.
34:22
You gave up your right to privacy cuz you chose this.
34:26
And that to me at the time felt like, "How dare you say that to me?
34:33
Of course I have a right to privacy. Everybody does.
34:36
But there was a It stuck with me for so many years because she was right. You know, I chose this. I chose this life.
34:43
There have been moments in my career where I sensed a shift where I could tell that that I was becoming more recognizable and I kept going.
34:52
So, I could have stopped, but I didn't, you know?
34:55
And so therefore, because of the platform I have, I do have a responsibility for the the things that I put out there into the world because it's it has the ability to reach so many people.
35:05
Um and that to me I take very seriously.
35:08
I Life to me is all about connection and and what a great opportunity I have to connect with all of these people that may have followed me because they watched a show that I did, but we can connect on something that is so much more important and and I want them to know who I am and to see me at my worst.
35:32
I don't want them to have to sift through my highlight reel of my life.
35:36
life. You know, I want them to see the the days where I don't have makeup on or the days that I have a headache or the days where I feel insecure about myself or the days where I'm depressed or I'm sad or I'm healing from a broken
35:52
heart or I'm doing all I want them to see those things because it gives them a voice by me using my voice because so many people feel like they they don't matter or they don't belong to community and and and so I I really I have a career because of these people. And so if they want to be a part of my
36:13
And so if they want to be a part of my life and if they want to to learn from my mistakes by God, I'm going to give them that, you know?
36:25
Um because I I don't know.
36:28
It just there's something very spiritual to me that when I connect with someone on something that's so much deeper and so much more important than everything else.
36:40
You know, I mean, these people come to me they send me direct messages about so many things that we're all struggling with and for some reason they have felt comfortable to express this with me and that is an honor that somebody would let me see a piece of them that that they're scared to show other people.
37:07
Um, and so I want them to see that part of me.
37:11
Um, Tell me about some of the examples that you've seen of messages you think are most important for you to share right now.
37:16
You mentioned a few there, but tell us about some of the bigger themes and also just about some of the things people open up to you about and what your responses on and how you've been kind of nurturing that community, too.
37:28
The thing that most most people come to me about is so many women are struggling with body image.
37:33
So many women are struggling with that.
37:36
They're struggling with self-love.
37:40
They are struggling with mental health.
37:44
Um, and I'm not an expert on these things.
37:48
You know, all I have is the experiences that I have gone through in my life and then I also have the ability to potentially go seek more answers for them because I have the ability to find these people and they're at my fingertips.
38:02
But but that body image thing was that's one that, you know, because I've played these characters that are synonymous with strength and self-love and sort of like, you know, people think that that is me. Um, Which it is.
38:19
It is, but I learned how to be me by playing these women. Wow.
38:26
You know, I was not the girl that said whatever she wanted when I was 21 years old. Wow.
38:30
I learned how to do that by these women and these words that were given to me by people that are that were so much more evolved than me at the time and and still are, but I I that's who they were for me.
38:42
And so that's these characters. I don't know.
38:46
So people come to me with that.
38:46
That is one that just destroys me.
38:48
It is one of the hardest things to see um girls and boys and women struggling with with this body image that is so pushed upon us by an industry that is selling perfection.
39:08
Um and perfection doesn't it doesn't exist. Yeah.
39:12
You know, it doesn't exist.
39:12
Or it doesn't exist the way we think of it. No. No.
39:17
And there's no one like you in the world. Totally.
39:22
Like that already is so special.
39:24
You know, I said this to someone that reached out to me the other day.
39:28
There is nobody like you in the world.
39:30
You are the only person out there that is you.
39:34
And she said, "Well, what if you're a twin?" And I was like, "Still.
39:38
Your DNA is changing every single second. Yes.
39:42
Like even if you're an identical twin, your DNA is your cells are different because they're constantly shifting.
39:47
So there's nobody like you.
39:49
Like that is the most special gift that you could possibly be given that you're a one-of-a-kind.
39:54
So there's no body that's perfect.
39:56
There's no body that's better than yours.
39:58
There is just the one that you have.
39:59
And that that is that's important that's cuz and I say that because I still struggle with that.
40:07
These are things that I say to myself every day.
40:10
Um so when I say them to myself I then go say them to them. Yeah.
40:14
Um because it it seems I'm inspired to do so at that moment, you know? Yes, absolutely.
40:19
And I think we all are in charge of what we believe we're aspiring for. Yeah.
40:25
Like we have a responsibility to ourselves for what we are holding up as perfection. Right.
40:30
Like what is that picture? We're deciding that. Yeah.
40:34
And whether you've consciously built that or it's been unconsciously built by your background, experience, parenting, education, whatever you've been exposed to, it's so important that we reconstruct that Yeah. for ourselves.
40:45
Because I find like that picture, if that's not removed, and if that's not deconstructed and reconstructed and redefined based on what you really value and believe in, Right.
40:55
then you are still not going to have another version.
40:57
Because we all need something to aspire for. We all do. Yeah.
41:02
And that usually should just be a more aligned version of ourselves. Right. Yeah.
41:09
make it this external picture, face, body, job, role, criteria. Right.
41:15
And and if you don't deconstruct it, I think that requires some time is that you have to spend some time to deconstruct the picture of perfection you currently have and reconstruct a new one.
41:25
Cuz you're right, what you said, that was not defined by you.
41:28
More often than not, it's not defined by us.
41:31
No, you know, we are we are raised a certain way with a certain set of values and a certain set of ideals by everyone around us that isn't us, you know?
41:38
And by the moment that, you know, you get to a certain point in your life where you realize that you are now responsible for your own well-being and who you want to be Totally. was not defined by you. Absolutely.
41:51
And that is is a really interesting thing to sort of focus on that you then have to go back and almost like you know, print out a like a a collage of like what you want your life to be like based on, you know, who you are at that moment. Exactly.
42:06
I grew up I grew up overweight when I was younger, and to my Indian family, that was considered healthy. Right.
42:14
And then when I lost weight and then I'd go back to my Indian family, they'd say, "Oh my god, you you look like completely malnourished and you haven't eaten."
42:22
And because that's the value of body image in that community.
42:28
Certain And this is what I mean by just everyone's going to have their own definition of what beauty is, what perfection is.
42:33
And if you've let all those definitions become yours, then now you're living for subjective definitions of other people. Yes.
42:41
Uh so no, I I think that's such a valuable point that you've raised.
42:43
And I'm so glad that you're not only using your platform, but we were speaking a bit about earlier and please share whatever you can, just how you really believe it's your responsibility to shift the way things are done even in the industry, which which gets me really excited because I just feel like powerful influence like you know, you're one of the most five iconic people in the whole sci-fi space, which is so exciting and cool.
43:03
And I'm just like, when you see icons shifting the way they do things that have been done the same way for decades, Right.
43:10
that's when I believe things start to shift. Right.
43:14
It's like when a CEO says, "I'm now sleeping 8 hours a day." Right? Like that makes a shift. that is.
43:19
It's such a simple It's such a simple thing.
43:21
Like we're like, "Oh, what?" Like, "Oh, right. Oh, yeah. I mean, okay."
43:24
Yeah, but we're hoping that people do things and say things like that because then their teams do. Yeah.
43:30
And then when we see actresses and icons like yourself who come out and be like, "Well, actually I want to use this platform for a voice, not just for the art." Right.
43:38
And and tell me about how you've been using that and some of your activism work that you've been doing.
43:43
Well, I realized that I couldn't change the industry.
43:47
The thing that I had control over was that I could add to it.
43:49
And and so, you know, like for Another Life, we're you know, having a premiere party.
43:57
Of course, everyone knows what a premiere party is.
43:58
Um but why not add a philanthropic arm to it?
44:03
Why not give back at the same time?
44:05
Because we know they're going to want to do this.
44:06
So, why not just add something to it that makes a difference?
44:12
Um and so, that's sort of what I've been trying to do is that just not change, add to, and shift.
44:20
Um and and so, that's sort of I think that we do have a responsibility to sort of like just just change ourselves and then others will change with us.
44:29
Yeah, I think and I think that's such a brilliant for everyone who's listening and watching, there are so many gems in this conversation right now coming from Katie there.
44:35
They're incredible and this one's really powerful that I think we waste a lot of energy trying to change stuff Right.
44:42
and don't realize that we can just add another layer.
44:43
So, often people would say to me like, "Jay, don't you want to change the education system?"
44:49
And I was just like, "No, I'm just going to create an alternative education system."
44:52
Because that is such a hefty goal.
44:54
Changing something seems so impossible, you know?
44:58
lose all your energy, get completely drained trying to change this big piece that actually you don't have any remit over or maybe you're not even qualified to like I don't feel qualified to change the education system as a whole. Like I don't. I'm I don't think so.
45:11
But but I do know that there are parts of it that I can add and enhance. Yes.
45:17
And and I think that's the beauty.
45:19
It also liberates you of this crazy pressure we put on ourselves like, "I'm going to change Hollywood or I'm going to change the education world or I'm going to change the industry or I'm going to change technology."
45:27
It's like that's such a heavy burden. Yeah.
45:28
And you feel liberated when you're like, "Actually, this is the part that I really believe I want to impact and I'm going to start here."
45:36
Well, I think that so many people think so so grand in in which is be a beautiful thing.
45:41
Um but they think in in such massive ideas.
45:43
And you're right, if you I I can't change the entertainment industry, but I can add to it.
45:51
You know, there is a piece that I can there's a crumb that I can leave behind.
45:56
is changing That is changing it.
45:57
Um and that is that is, you know, I think if we think smaller sometimes that it it it becomes much more manageable and less pressure. Yeah, absolutely.
46:06
I love what you said earlier about how the roles you've played have actually inspired your strength.
46:13
And and and and I love that earlier and I I didn't pick up I I picked up on it then I didn't say it I'm saying it now is just how you were saying that you were so committed to getting this role because you were so excited to play this role, right?
46:24
And And and I wanted to find out so now in Netflix's new show, Another Life, which is very exciting, what is that role inspiring in you as a person in your own life?
46:37
Oh my gosh, this woman is, you know, with Yeah, no, the the character is is so now I've, you know, I'm older now, so now I'm sort of I I started in this industry as the youngest person on a movie set.
46:52
Now I'm the oldest, which is amazing.
46:53
I think it's such a beautiful thing.
46:55
Um but it's it's this woman is the commander of a ship.
47:01
Um and she's been given a very young crew um to go out and save the world basically.
47:07
And she's given a young crew because they're disposable.
47:10
Um and um it is a very very fun role for me, but it's heavy.
47:15
It's very heavy, you know, she is the the leader of the crew and and I I took that responsibility very seriously because I on Longmire um Robert Taylor was a phenomenal number one, the lead of the show.
47:32
He was a phenomenal leader because he showed up every single day, he did his job, he was happy, the crew loved him, and that was such a great role model for me.
47:46
Um and so I took put a lot of pressure on myself, probably too much pressure actually thinking back on it now, but I put a lot of pressure on myself to be a role model for some of these younger actors who a lot of them this is their first big role. Right.
47:58
And and I wanted them to sort of learn how to be in the industry and how to be on set and and um you know, what things not to do, what things to do and and so I um you know, it's one of my biggest pet peeves in this industry that they let actors cut in front of the crew in the lunch line.
48:19
It to me is completely rude and and I don't think that it is it is responsible as an actor who who is you know, probably not as tired as the crew member who's been working just as hard if not harder than you and doesn't get to go back to a cushy little trailer and have their lunch, you know.
48:35
So why don't you let him go first so he can eat his lunch and then like go, you know, have some time.
48:40
Little things like that that I wanted it was it it's a gift to be able to sort of like impart that to younger people because things that matter to me and and um um because a lot of people do what they're told they can do.
48:56
Um and so it's a fun role.
48:58
So So the way that I'm acting on set as Katie is very similar to my character Nico, um which is the commander and she's sort of teaching them how to be astronauts.
49:07
That's awesome and and how have they taken to it?
49:13
Some of them better than others.
49:15
Um no, I mean it's it's really well.
49:17
I mean this is a it's a fun show.
49:20
It's a really great cast and and we were really lucky to there's some some beautiful diamonds on this show that are we're lucky to have. Yeah, that's awesome.
49:30
Now I love that and I and I think those are the experiences that you value maybe not even in that moment, but many years along.
49:38
I know whenever I've been mentored or coached by someone even when I first met them and I didn't really want them to do that for me and then in 10, 15, 20 years I look back and I'm like, I'm really glad they taught me that, you know, and it's I think that's the beauty of anyone who's a teacher or a coach or mentor or in any sense like in any field you're showing that in any field our example Right.
49:59
is contagious and will spread. Yeah. Right?
50:03
You're not their coach or their guide, but it's spreading and I just really feel that when you're playing that role in any sort sort of way our responsibility to facilitate growth and give opportunity, but not expect it. Yeah.
50:17
Cuz that person may take 5 10 15 20 years to actually realize how powerful a lesson that was.
50:21
powerful a lesson that was. Sorry, you were going to say No, I was just going to say it's you know, we it was a role that I'd never had of being this sort of like mentor and in a way and I didn't do it right in every way and you know, I had
50:36
you know, my boyfriend looked at me at one point and he said, you know, you need to understand that sometimes when you're listening to someone and you then impart wisdom on them based on an experience that you had very similar what you're saying to them is that I did it. I was fine. You're fine I was fine.
50:51
You're fine and you're not validating how they feel in this moment and he said you need you need to stop doing that. Mhm.
50:59
And it was really It was great advice, but it was really hard.
51:03
I got sort of frustrated.
51:03
I walked away for 5 minutes.
51:05
I was like, is this going to be a fight?
51:06
Is this going to be a and I walked away for like 5 minutes and then came back and I was like, you are so right. Yeah.
51:11
Thank you so much for telling me that because I I did that part of this very wrong. Yeah.
51:16
And God, you know, God forbid that you know, I've made someone feel like what they're experiencing and feeling isn't valid.
51:22
Um or that it's not important because I did it. Mhm.
51:27
Um that's that was a that was a good lesson.
51:31
That was a very good lesson for me to learn um not to hear but to learn. Yeah, awesome.
51:35
Lessons are never fun to hear. Exactly. But to learn. I love that. That's awesome.
51:41
Well, Katie, this has been such a fun conversation for me.
51:43
I feel like everyone who's listening and watching genuinely if you've been listening attentively like I have I've learned so much from you today.
51:52
I feel like I talked too much. No, not at all. Not at all. Keep talking.
51:55
If if Remember when you said that I had to make mistakes I drank too much coffee? No, no, no.
52:00
No, you didn't talk too much.
52:00
This is amazing like the amount of principles and amount of practices that you've given us I think are going to be so valuable for everyone listening.
52:06
So was there anything that I didn't ask you that you wish I did because this is what this opportunity is for if there's anything that you like Jay I really want to address this to talk about this please this is free you know no quick fire round anymore like this is I want to give you that opportunity.
52:20
Is there anything that we didn't touch on that you really want to share?
52:22
We didn't you know I'm I the one thing we didn't touch on is that I'm starting a YouTube channel.
52:27
Yes, let's talk about that.
52:29
Yeah, yeah, let's talk about that.
52:31
For me Instagram I do find that there's so much there and and so much of sifting through to find the content that that touches on a deeper level and I wanted to to reach more of my the fans that are reaching out to me but on like a a longer platform.
52:51
Instagram seemed a little it didn't seem intimate enough for me and it didn't seem like the right place to talk about some of the things that I want to talk about with people and and show what motivates me what inspires me what scares me and and do it in a fun way and so that that is new for me.
53:08
I'm really excited for people to see more of of that aspect of my life and sort of go along that journey with me.
53:18
And what kind of format can we expect?
53:20
Is it like following you around? Is it insights?
53:22
Is it is it any sci-fi twist in there? Like where where's that?
53:27
There might be there might be.
53:27
There might be there might be. We're going to break it down into seasons actually so we can actually do different seasons with different themes and and talk about even more different things but for the most part it's sort of like I wanted it to be the anti-Hollywood and I wanted it to be wellness and lifestyle and what motivates me and you
53:47
know that what I said what scares me and and things that move me um and wrapped up in a fun little box, you know, it's it's um stress-relieving techniques which you know, but under the guise of baby goat yoga, you know, but like things like that that are fun to watch because I I think that sometimes when something is fun to watch and it's palatable, it's much easier to change somebody's perception Absolutely. The The name of the company
54:10
The The name of the company is actually Blood, Sweat, and Coffee.
54:14
That's the name of the channel.
54:14
It's sort of a metaphor for everything in the world.
54:17
I We end every interview with a final five, which is a rapid-fire quick-fire round. Okay.
54:22
So, this is where you can't talk too much. You're not allowed.
54:23
I I may I may I may digress at points or go off on a tangent. fast as I can.
54:29
I'll try my best to not talk too much.
54:30
They won't talk too much.
54:32
the number one question is uh what's your dream role?
54:35
Or what would have been your dream role? Past, present, anything. It could be anything.
54:39
I always say my dream role is the one I have right now. Love it. Amazing. Beautiful answer.
54:43
Question two, what's the one thing you never leave your house without? Oh my god.
54:49
I don't know if there's anything.
54:51
Um it's usually poop bags. Oh. I know that sounds bad.
54:55
I always have a doggie poop bag in my pocket. Nice.
54:58
Whether I mean to or not. Awesome.
55:01
Uh number three, if you had to describe your new show in one word or one sentence, what would it be? Um it's a wild ride. It's very fast. Okay. Awesome.
55:12
Uh what's one thing that one practice that you have on a daily basis that you don't think people know about that you'd want them to know about?
55:17
A daily habit, a daily practice, uh meditation.
55:19
Um I meditate every day um and then I I talk about I do have a gratitude list which is becoming very mainstream which I love um and then I pick one thing that day that I need to work on. Nice. I love that.
55:36
Uh number five, if you could have dinner with one person, dead or alive, who would it be? My grandmother.
55:43
I really miss her strawberry rhubarb pie. Aw.
55:44
And no one wrote it down.
55:44
She was a really great woman. No one wrote it down.
55:49
It was just all in her head. Yeah. Yeah. Wow, thank you.
55:51
Katie, thank you so much for doing this. Aw, thank you.
55:55
I'm so grateful to have you on.
55:57
Honestly, you shared some amazing insights today, and I can't wait for everyone to hear this episode. having me.
56:02
I feel like this is the first time anyone has ever asked me any of these like questions. I love that.
56:08
go follow Katie on Instagram, too, though, because I do feel like it for anyone who doesn't know you already, they can find out so much about you, which I think will be such an incredible way.
56:17
And of course, go and check out Another Life on Netflix as well, releasing Oh, Netflix won't let me tell anyone. So Can't wait.
56:25
things very differently over there.
56:25
Look out for And Okay, look out for Another Life on Netflix this summer. Katie, you're amazing.
56:33
Thank you so much for having meeting you today, as well.
56:34
And I hope we're going to stay in touch.
56:37
wait to take more of your courses. Yeah, absolutely.
56:39
I can't I can't wait to learn more from you, too.
56:41
I'm I'm going to be a subscriber for the YouTube channel, for sure.
56:43
So, we'll we'll do more for the YouTube channel when it comes out, too.
56:47
It'll be It'll be a really good time. It'll be really fun. you so much, Katie.
56:50
Make sure you go check her out.
56:51
Thank you so much for listening and watching today to On Purpose.
56:55
Remember, there were so many great insights from Katie in this episode.
56:59
Go ahead, share them on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, Twitter. Tag both of us in there.
57:02
We would love to see what you took away, what you learned.
57:06
And as always, I'll be sharing and posting some of the best ones that I do see.
57:10
Thank you again for being a part of this community.
57:12
We're so grateful to you, so grateful to Katie for today. And keep tuned in.
57:16
There is so much more to come. Thank you. Amazing.
57:20
If you want even more videos just like this one, make sure you subscribe and click on the boxes over here.
57:26
I'm also excited to let you know that you can now get my book, Think Like a Monk from thinklikeamonkbook. com.
57:35
Check below in the description to make sure you order today.