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When we first met, we were like very attracted to each other.
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It was It was our chemistry was great.
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But that level of attraction is more like infatuation at the beginning of a relationship.
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And love when it is able to stand the test of time, it has to be deeper and more like more real than that.
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The best-selling author and host The number one health and wellness podcast On Purpose with Jay Shetty.
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Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health and wellness podcast in the world.
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Thanks to each and every single one of you that join every week to listen, learn, and grow.
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Now, I know you're here because you're fascinated as I am about creators' stories, people's backgrounds, walks of life, choices they made, decisions that change the trajectory of their journey because you're trying to make the same in your life.
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And today's guest is someone that I had down as one of the names when I first started the show 4 years ago, nearly 4 years ago.
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And it was one of those people that I wanted to speak to because I was a fan of his music for a long time, his journey.
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And I'm grateful that today we actually get to do this in person in my studio at home in LA.
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And so, I'm speaking about none other than one and only John Legend, who's garnered 12 Grammy Awards, an Academy Award, a Golden Globe Award, a Tony Award, and an Emmy Award, making him the first black man to earn an EGOT.
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During the course of John's career, he has released seven celebrated albums.
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His eighth studio album, Legend, which was released on September 9th, is out right now.
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I've been listening to it. It's beautiful.
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I can't wait for you to listen to it if you haven't already.
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John recently began the second leg of his critically acclaimed Las Vegas residency entitled Love in Las Vegas, which runs through October.
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So, make sure you check that out.
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And I'm really excited because his MasterClass on songwriting has just released.
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And if you don't already have a Masterclass subscription, make sure you grab one.
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I first got one when Bob Iger had his Masterclass.
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That's what took me to the platform and now John Legend has his own on songwriting.
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So, John, welcome to the show. Great to see you. Great to meet you. Yeah.
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I'm excited for our conversation. Yeah, me too.
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I usually know people that are on the show and I was like, this is we've never met. Yeah.
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Uh and we've never crossed paths, you know, and so it's always nice to I feel like this is the best way to get to know someone deeply and intimately is to do a podcast with them.
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When else would you have a situation when you meet someone and you have over an hour to talk to them and learn about them?
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Yeah, when was the last time you did that?
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Is there When was the last time you sat down with someone?
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I don't know that it ever happens.
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Yeah, it's it's a blessing and it's it's it truly is, but I I mean, I remember being a kid in London.
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I remember when we first heard your music and we're like, who is this person?
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At the time I was listening to R&B and hip-hop and rap and then it was like, oh, this is very different.
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Like this isn't you know, it's hard to kind of pin it down into one of those genres, but I want to dive into your journey today as well a little bit and I want to start with you being homeschooled. Yeah.
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Uh when I when I was researching and reading, I was like, wow, I had no idea.
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Yeah, I was homeschooled by my parents, uh particularly my mother.
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We grew up in a very Christian home.
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My parents sent us to a Christian school for a couple years, but it was a little expensive for them to send us to private school, but they still wanted us to have a very kind of Christian education.
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They decided that instead of sending us to this Christian school, they would basically take the curriculum from the school, use the books uh from the school, and uh the school had this home school liaison as well because a lot of evangelical Christian parents like to use this uh this method.
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We would work with the school, but my mom was our main teacher, and we were home a lot with her.
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Um we had, you know, friends in the neighborhood, relatives in the neighborhood, but yeah, we were uh with our parents and and at the house quite a bit when most of our friends were going to public school and uh being around a bunch of other kids.
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What's your strongest memory from that time or something that you took away that has kind of stayed with you?
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Because I find that homeschooling still a fairly small population when it comes to people who are big in the evangelical Christian community.
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What I remember from it, you know, I was very precocious, so I I loved to read.
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I loved to independently do whatever, you know, I would just want to advance past whatever I was supposed to uh be doing at the time.
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I was obsessed with like encyclopedias and dictionaries.
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I ended up winning the city spelling bee during that time.
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So, I was very precocious, wanted to learn everything.
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My mom had a typing textbook and I just decided I was going to learn how to type.
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I was taking piano lessons during this time, too.
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So, I just wanted to learn everything and uh know how to do everything.
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What What's something that you've been trying to learn more recently or where that mindset's kind of like carried through? Well, I I don't.
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What would you like to then?
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If If If you had the time. do more master classes.
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I should be a consumer more of master classes, but yeah, I haven't done that recently.
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I do like to read a lot and I like to just read about how the world works.
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I like to read about um policy and I'm very interested in, you know, how to craft a better society that's more loving and more generous and more just and more equitable for more people.
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And so, I like to read books that kind of discuss some of these policy ideas and and ways of thinking about the world.
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Yeah, no, that's beautiful.
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And it is true, like I feel like we all get so busy that it's hard to find time to keep learning.
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Yeah, I mean I haven't recently taken up anything where I'm like I want to learn how to do this that I don't know how to do.
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I tried to do it with guitar for a while and then I just got so busy that I never like stuck with it.
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And uh I haven't had something like that recently that I've done.
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Maybe I should learn another language. Yeah.
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Uh my friend did some Duolingo. No, I It worked for her. No, I'm with you, too.
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I I I feel like But it's fun looking back at like what was that in childhood that we loved and Mhm.
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reconnecting good, you know, now that you brought it up.
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I'm like, why haven't I, you know, picked something I want to learn about.
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I always thought about should I go back to college and like take classes and just you just randomly take classes where there's no pressure to get good grades, but just you want to learn something. Yeah. Um that'd be fun.
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Well, that's a beautiful point that as an adult you actually get to go and learn something without the pressure of it having to like be good grades or my mom, she's going to college right now.
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She never graduated and she decided she would just go and, you know, she's like almost 70 years old. That's amazing.
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What is What's her experience been like? Uh she loves it. She really enjoys it.
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I think it's very like stimulating for her and you know, she doesn't work, so it's like something to occupy her mind and to stimulate her mind and she really is learning new things. That's amazing.
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So, you you went from being homeschooled to then being like And obviously there's many years in between, but being homecoming king. Yes. And that's like Yeah. Prom king. Prom king.
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Sorry, we don't have proms in London, so you know, where I grew up, so Yes. I always missed that.
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I would watch Hollywood movies and I'd be like, why don't we get to have prom? Yeah.
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And so, we never did that.
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But what was that experience like if then moving from like this very specific homeschooled culture, religious culture, institutional culture and then transitioning like talk to me a bit about that transition as a young adult or as a So, it was interesting because at the time the the impetus for us transitioning into public school was our parents getting divorced.
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Um and that uh the impetus for that really was it began with my grandmother dying.
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So, my grandmother was very important in our lives.
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She was very important in my mother's life and they made music together.
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They ran the church choir together and were very close.
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And when she died, it really sent my mom into a spiral um mental health-wise and and uh she ended up um abusing drugs and just really becoming distant from our family for a while.
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During that period, my parents got divorced.
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Our world was being shaken in a lot of ways and one of the ways it was being shaken is like, "Oh, now we're going to public school after, you know, an entire, you know, 10 years of my life where I didn't spend any time in public school."
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And you know, it was quite an adjustment um coming from home school.
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And I also, because I was so precocious, I ended up being skipped two grades ahead because I tested out of um the grades I was supposed to be in.
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And so, I ended up starting eighth grade at the age of a sixth grader and uh starting high school at the age of 12 and graduating at the age of 16.
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So, all of it was a bit, you know, difficult, you know, socially adjusting, adjusting to my parents being divorced, adjusting to being in a public school setting when I had never been in one before.
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There were a lot of adjustments to make.
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That's why I'm always, you know, wary of the idea of homeschooling kids because the social development just isn't really there. Um but I figured it out.
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So, yeah, that's what I was going to say.
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I think music was always my way of of helping me find ways to connect to people because even though I was too shy to really strike up a conversation in person, I wasn't too shy to get up on stage.
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And once I got up on stage, it was my way of introducing myself to people.
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It was like, oh, this is me. This is who I am.
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And I didn't have to break the ice with people because my music was my way of breaking the ice.
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It was like my social crutch, I would say, at the time.
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It enabled me to make friends, enabled me to feel like some control over what I was doing.
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And I think when you feel like you have something you're really good at, it makes you feel a bit more empowered to do other things and to to connect with other people and to feel like you can take up space because you feel like, oh, I have something that I've shown everyone that I'm really good at.
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I think that is such a great point and I completely agree with you.
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I was a really shy kid growing up and massively introverted and still am to this day in many circles, but my parents forced me to go to public speaking drama school. Uh-huh.
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And so, I would go for 3 hours a day, 3 days a week, so 9 hours a week all year around. It's a lot of time.
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And as I improved in both those areas of my life, that's where I'd feel at home.
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And now I started to have more confidence in different circles and you can move that around and I was speaking to my friend recently, one of my closest friends, his son's like 10 years old and he was saying that he's struggling with confidence. Mhm.
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And I and I said exactly what you just said.
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I was like, well, have you helped him get good at something? Yeah.
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I was like, you know, what is he interested in?
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What's he naturally gravitating towards that he could be encouraged in further Mhm.
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because that would empower him as you said. Exactly.
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that's such a beautiful thing because we don't know what to validate ourselves through when we're kids.
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Uh but hearing you reflect back on it makes sense, but I'm guessing at that time there was a lot of stress.
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I mean, being a young kid whose parents are divorcing like like you said, like your mother's also experiencing mental health and drug abuse.
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Like, how were you making sense of that? Like, what helped you?
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It was hard to make sense of it and uh I part of my way of uh dealing with what was going on with my mother was to try to ignore it, honestly.
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And And so, I would, uh, pour myself into school, pour myself into music, pour myself into these things that kept me busy, so I didn't think about everything that was happening in my family.
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Uh, and my dad did a great job of, you know, helping us, guiding us through it.
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We got a lot of extended family and our community, cousins, aunts, uncles, who helped fill in the gaps as well.
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And then, we had people at school.
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I had a counselor, who he was one of the only black men that worked at my school.
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And he really, like, decided to take me and my older brother under his wing.
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And, um, just was really helpful in in just figuring out school, figuring out how to get into college, all these other things that my parents didn't really know how to help us with.
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We just were fortunate to have other people fill in the gap.
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You know, they say it takes a village to raise a child.
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And I think a lot of times when your parents aren't able to give you everything that you need, uh, it's good to have other people in your life that can do it.
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Yeah, especially especially now, I feel like I feel like there's so I'm not a parent yet, and of course you are, but it's a there's so much pressure on two people to be everything to these new human beings.
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And what you realize is that, you know, you don't have to be everything.
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It's great to have other people around you, a village, a community.
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That's one of the things that was so difficult about the pandemic was that feeling that um, you didn't have that, you know, community support that most people normally have.
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That feeling of being disconnected and and separated from a lot of people, despite all the techno- technological ways that you can get in touch with them.
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It's nice to be in presence with people.
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And I think when people didn't have that, we're seeing the results of it with a lot of kids learning loss and and falling behind in school and there's a lot of things that you just can't do remotely that you need that community support to do. Yeah, no, absolutely.
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I want to I want to give a shout out to our community for staying with us through the pandemic because for me sitting with someone like this face-to-face even for an interview, it's like the connection that you have with someone as opposed to through a screen, it's just incomparable.
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It's It's different and we we made the most of what we had to do during that time, but clearly it's preferable to be in person and I think particularly for kids as they're trying to learn, they need that.
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Yeah, did you have to you said then I think you're so right like as kids we we ignore stuff like that. We try and avoid it.
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We try and you know, we have to we and I loved what you said you poured yourself into your music.
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You poured yourself into school and that's why outlets artistic outlets are so fantastic to have as young people.
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Did you ever have to revisit it?
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Did you feel like it naturally just improved there were changes or did you ever have to revisit that as an adult to be like do I did you ever feel the need for any healing or did you feel that just naturally kind of came to a place Well, we needed to heal.
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We needed to forgive our mother because we felt abandoned by her. Wow.
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She eventually got sober, came back to her family.
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got sober, came back to her family. She healed in a lot of ways as well and you know, recovered in a lot of ways and we still had to deal with forgiving her though because I think when you feel let down by your parent, part of what you need to do for your own growth is figure out how to forgive them and how to love them and not be held back by whatever resentment or anger or
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disappointment you might feel because if you continue to hold on to it, it actually hinders you as much or more than it hinders anyone else, the person that maybe the object of your forgiveness, that's great to forgive them, but it's just as important for you, because that's the best way for you to go on and live the best life that you can live is to get that weight off of your shoulder that you're holding on to. And it's
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And it's always hardest doing that with our parents because when we're young, you kind of see them as the person who's meant to be the caregiver and the safety Yeah, and I think the letdown is is bigger Yeah, it's dramatic because you expect them to, you know, they're supposed to have all the answers, they're supposed to do the right things, they're supposed to show you the way to do it.
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And then when they when we realize they're not infallible and and then they fall from grace in our eyes, I think the disappointment is even greater.
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Yeah, but I love that point you're making that there's there's two sides and you got to experience the beauty of your mother's growth and transformation and change, but it's like that person's like, "I'm back." Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're like, "Oh, okay."
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You don't know like you've gotten used to dealing with not being with them and not having them in your life.
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And my parents got remarried during this time and that was weird.
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Um, so it was like a lot of dealing with all those feelings, dealing with forgiveness, wondering how to adjust to having that person back in your life. Um, all of that.
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It was it was very interesting.
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Yeah, mine was kind of the the opposite where like I was encouraging my parents as a 10-year-old to get a divorce.
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So, I was seeing and experiencing and they would both tell me about what was going on and I'd be like, "I think you guys should separate because I want you both to be happy." Yeah. And we'll be happy.
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And then they stayed together until like 3 years ago. Okay.
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They they never separated until now.
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And I feel like they're so much happier and fulfilled because of it, but they were thinking they were staying together for the kids. Yeah.
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And and as a kid, I was like, "No, no, no, no, no."
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Like, I don't think this is Yeah. Well, yeah.
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I I think when my parents got divorced both times, it was the right thing.
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They got divorced twice, so they're not together now.
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My dad's remarried, and my mom hasn't, but uh both times I think it was the right thing to do.
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I wasn't actively encouraging it when I was younger.
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Uh it was traumatic for me when I was younger.
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Um but um it was the right thing to do. Yeah.
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How are you finding that now being a parent yourself?
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a parent yourself? Like, what are the what are the parts of this journey that kind of influence your approach now because you are aware that we are not perfect any one of us Yeah, I'm aware we're not perfect, but I I I do feel I think Chrissy and I both
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really believe in the idea of creating like stability in our home for our kids, showering them with love and encouragement, teaching them about what it means to be kind, what it means to be loving, what it means to be generous, what it means to be passionate about something and pursue it. Um all of those things we want for them,
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Um all of those things we want for them, and we want them to see in us a loving relationship um that teaches them what love is supposed to feel like and what it's supposed to be like.
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I want us to be a great example of what love means for them and how they should expect a partner to treat them, how they should treat their partner.
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I want to be a good example for them, and I think Chrissy does, too.
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And um yeah, I don't want to get divorced. I know that. Yeah, yeah, of course.
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Like, I I really truly, you know, and you've come from a situation where you're like, "Well, they should have gotten divorced.
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It's the right thing for them to do."
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But But I also I'm like, "Oh, I really want a stable home for our kids, and I want them to be surrounded by love and to see in us an example of what love means.
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And hopefully we can maintain that for decades and decades to come.
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Like I want us Absolutely.
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to be grandparents having them over for Sunday dinner and like I want that for us.
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Yeah, I wish that for you, too.
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Definitely, that's beautiful.
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And and I I don't disagree with you.
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I think the point you made there is so clear that you want what stability means.
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And I think what sometimes I don't know recognize is staying together is unstable. Sometimes it is. Yeah.
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Uh but there's always going to be some instability instability, of course, but I think that's the challenge.
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Like we usually see togetherness as stability and breaking up as instability, but often if two people are together, but it's causing more stress for everyone else. That's true.
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And there's definitely circumstances like that.
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Uh God forbid that happens to us. I No, no, no, of course.
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Yeah, yeah, no, no, definitely. No.
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And and by the way, it's so interesting what you're saying cuz I literally just spoke to we I just interviewed uh Dr.
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Gabor Maté and he's like a a healing and trauma expert and and researcher.
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He's like in his 70s, I think, right?
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Like And so he's been doing this his whole life like looking at trauma, looking at addiction, looking at children.
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And he literally just said what you just said where he's like, "You can't love your kids too much."
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Like, you know, giving them a safe, loving environment.
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And I think for a long time I confused love and safety. Mhm.
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And and I realized like safety was really what you needed as a child. Yes, you really do.
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Yeah, I really truly believe that.
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And we want to have them feel safe and surrounded by love and care.
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Um it doesn't mean you don't want to allow them to make mistakes.
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Um but you do want them to feel like they can make mistakes in safety. Yeah.
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And I think um uh when people feel unsafe, uh it contributes to fear, contributes to trauma, uh and a lot of things that make uh their responses unhealthy as they get older because uh if they're dealing with so much fear and danger in their lives, it affects the way they respond to stimuli, it affects the way they deal with fight or flight and all these things that kind of these mechanisms that your body has to deal with trauma and and fear.
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Like if they get activated too much, then it's hard for them to cope with life. Yeah, absolutely.
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When when someone's as exceptional as you are at at what you do, I want to hear about like what was the hardest part about getting that good?
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Like what was the When was it challenging to pick up an instrument or or learn an element of music?
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Like what was the Was there ever or did it just Was it just so natural and effortless that it's always been that way?
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Well, there's always effort and I think part of it is like figuring out what you want to specialize in, what you want to do really well.
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Like I play the piano pretty well, but I'm not like an expert concert pianist.
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Like I've seen what they can do and I can't do it.
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And I got good enough at the piano to accompany myself, to accompany others, to write and to perform live, but people that focus on playing the piano are much better at playing the piano than I am.
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What I've chosen to focus on is being the best singer-songwriter that I can be.
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So I spend a lot of time focusing on my voice, focusing on songwriting.
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So those are the the two most important things for me and those are the things that I spend the most time and energy on.
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And it's not easy to write songs and it doesn't come automatically, but I've developed ways of getting getting to that point where I'm pretty good at writing a song.
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And even my worst songs are pretty good.
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That didn't come automatically though.
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It came through like just writing a lot, listening to a lot of music, but also writing a lot of music, and trying different ideas, seeing them work, and collaborating with other people who push me and bring out the best in me and give me new ideas.
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All of that made me a better writer, but it wasn't easy and it wasn't automatic.
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Yeah, there's often a perception that people have that the way you write songs or whatever is that when someone's going through emotional turmoil, their artistic expression is heightened. Mhm.
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And then when their external circumstances are less stressful, it can be harder to find creativity. Is that true? Is that accurate?
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Or have you found that you can always or you have a method to always tap it?
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Because your songs are like your lyrics are highly emotive.
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Your your songs are about real issues in your life.
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It doesn't matter whether your external life has changed.
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How have you continued to be able to access that?
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Because I think some people think, "Oh, well, my life was hard. I wrote my best music." Yeah.
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my external life is simpler, cuz there's no easy life, my external life is simpler, I kind of find it harder to access.
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I've gotten so um experienced at writing that I can turn it on pretty much at any point.
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But one of the ways I do that is by bringing other people in the room. Right.
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And so that way, you're not always relying on your own inspiration, um which may be hard to summon sometimes.
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Um and I think because I've been such a uh promiscuous collaborator, um it enables me to stay refreshed as as a creative person because even if I don't immediately have an idea, I could be in the room with someone who does, and then I can bounce off of that, build on that, and we can create something together.
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And then also have quite a bit of methodology around my songwriting that makes it easier for me to tap into my creativity and tap into that inspiration.
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So that when I have it, I'm able to go from inspiration to completion in a way that's tried and true for me.
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And that's what I spend a lot of time on in the masterclass is just explaining, you know, like this is my methodology for writing a song.
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The inspiration's going to come from different places.
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Sometimes it comes just from I dream about a song and I sing it into my phone and and remember it that way, record it for later and then go to completion when I when I go back to the studio and like I sit down to write.
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But either way, the inspiration's going to come at some point.
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Sometimes it's just a riff that somebody else plays or a beat that someone else plays and then it leads me into a vocal melody and a vocal melody leads me into like a feeling of like this is what this song feels like to me.
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This is what the story is that I want to tell and then I know how to build a song pretty easily from those kind of seeds of ideas.
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And um yeah, that's what I spend a lot of time on in the masterclass is just teaching that once you get this seed of an idea, here's how you take it to a complete song.
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And it works really well for me because it makes it so that I can write once I have the idea, write pretty quickly.
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Yeah, and I think I I want to unpack that for everyone because I think from anyone that I've sat down with who I believe is extreme highly extremely high performing in their space, obviously everyone on a masterclass is at that level in their field.
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And then when I've sat down with people like Kobe Bryant as well or like Novak Djokovic or Jennifer Lopez, it's like everyone always talks about this balance with what you're saying perfectly is like there's inspiration and then there's regulation. Mhm.
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There's like actual methods, Yeah. processes, structure.
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It's like we all think that there's a magic moment, Mhm.
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which it sounds like there is, Yeah.
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but then that magic needs to turn into a method Yes.
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in order to actually turn into something beautiful. Absolutely.
26:50
And and the people that you were referring to like Kobe, he was so naturally gifted.
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So, he he had this God-given gift to be this amazing athlete, but he took the gift, which some people have and don't maximize it like he did.
27:08
He took that gift and worked so hard, practiced so hard, spent so much time in the gym.
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Like there needs to be more to your your ability than this natural ability.
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It needs to be cultivated, it needs to be honed, it needs to be practiced.
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And with songwriting, I've gotten to that point where it's not just, "Oh, I have a gift for music. Oh, I can sing. Oh, I have a good ear."
27:36
It's, "Oh, I've spent a lot of time honing my craft as a songwriter, and it helps me figure out how to take this idea and make it a song that works."
27:45
Yeah, and I love how everyone's different.
27:47
Like, I completely agree with you.
27:48
Like, when I'm doing this, it's like even though I'm not in the same field as you, you could say something.
27:53
I'm like, "Oh, that's I need to do more of that."
27:57
I think I mean and when you when Kobe passed, I spent a lot of time just thinking about just like what it takes to be someone like him, and I think it really inspired me.
28:07
It's like, you really like if you want to be great, if you want to be like world-changingly great at something, you got to put in the time and energy to do that.
28:15
And it can be inspiring to see examples of that in the world and then say, "Yeah, I want to be more like that."
28:23
Yeah, well, even when you're giving the example of when you're in the studio and you're bringing people in, like, for me the podcast is like that.
28:28
Like, I sit down with people that I'm not in the field of a tool, Yes.
28:31
and I get to hear I'm like, "Oh, that's how they do it in their field.
28:34
How can I apply that Yes. to mine?"
28:35
And I think that's what Masterclass does great, but cuz we had Russ on, the rapper, Mhm.
28:38
and he was talking about the opposite where he was like, "I don't like having anyone in the room with me, because if people are in the room with me, then I don't get to be silly or I don't get to be totally expressive.
28:50
So he'll be He said to us, he was like, "I get rid of everyone and then I make weird sounds into the microphone to see what works for me.
28:59
Whereas if my boys were there," he was saying, "if my boys were there," he was like, "they'd all laugh at me."
29:04
And so I'm wondering who do who do you like having around you?
29:05
Like could you give us an example of some people that you've sat with that you're like and they don't have to be even people that we know, they could be other people behind the scenes, but someone that you're like, "Oh yeah, when they're in the room, they kind of spot me this way or that way."
29:15
Well, I I take his point as saying you don't want people around that aren't totally bought in creatively because you want people in the room that are in there to create something beautiful with you and if they're there to be like your kind of What my sense is, I don't know him and and I don't know his friends, but what I'm my sense is that he's saying like he might want to be too cool around them. Yes.
29:45
too cool around them, he may not come up with the best art.
29:47
And I think it's important to have I don't have random people in the studio when we write.
29:52
Like I have only writers in the studio and then we just sit there and vibe off of each other and and see where the vibe takes us and hopefully everybody's bought in to the idea that we just want to make something amazing and something beautiful and something interesting and something that's a great song and they're not worried about being cool, not worried about anything else other than let's make this great.
30:14
That idea of being around people that you're okay to make mistakes around, be fearless around.
30:21
Like that's the kind of people you want in the room.
30:24
And we just try things and I try not to have an ego about my ideas.
30:27
So that means if like I I do a thing called a mumble track usually where I just mumble a melody and see if we like it.
30:39
And some of the other writers in the room may do the same thing and I'm like, "Oh, I like their idea better than mine."
30:45
And I think you need to have that openness to other people's ideas, that humility when you're a collaborator.
30:52
And so, I think part of what I'm really good at is that spirit of collaboration.
30:56
So, I understand that all the great ideas don't need to come from me and that um I can benefit from this other energy and creativity in the room and be open to it, you know?
31:07
Be humble enough to receive it and not think that it all has to come from me.
31:12
Yeah, ego-lessness is hard though.
31:14
Like that's like especially as you become more successful.
31:15
Like I think that's something people struggle with because you have to trust yourself to some degree.
31:21
So, how did you Well, I think so.
31:22
It's what the interesting thing about ego is like the people that you think of that have big egos are also very insecure.
31:27
So, it's like um it's very interesting thing about that combination of the inflated ego and the heightened insecurities at the same time.
31:41
And it can be very debilitating when that's the issue because a lot of times when you hear, "Well, this artist, whenever they come, they won't let you look at them, they won't this and that."
31:51
And what I hear when I hear that is not, "Oh, they think so much so highly of themselves."
31:55
I think, "Oh, they're pretty insecure, probably."
32:00
And so, it's interesting thinking about that and what that means and what the kind of I don't know what the psychology is behind that, but it's an interesting combination that I've observed in the world is that people that are seen as having big egos and being difficult to work with are also usually pretty insecure. Exactly. I think you're spot on.
32:17
When I started the show, when I started interviewing people, I noticed that too where there was natural social anxiety and a lot of people were just so used to being on when the camera was on that that's when they came in a full force.
32:30
But then when the camera was off, it's not that they didn't care, it's that they didn't even know how to connect because they've been so trained in that way. And so you're right.
32:38
I think it's so interesting that from the outside we can be like, oh that person has an ego or they're being arrogant or they you know, they have a they're bragadocious or they have a bravado, but it's not that.
32:48
It's Yeah, my assumption is that they're probably insecure.
32:51
That's usually my assumption. Yeah, yeah. No, that's well said.
32:53
I'm going to give you a bit of context before this next question because I I So, my wife, we've been married for 10 years now.
33:00
Sorry, married for six, we've been together for 10 years.
33:02
And she my team was looking at the other day and she was reading a book.
33:08
And they were like, oh what are you reading?
33:10
Cuz she'd taken the cover off and they couldn't tell.
33:12
And she was like, oh I'm reading my husband's book.
33:14
Like as in my book which I wrote 2 years ago.
33:17
No, 2 and 1/2 2 years ago.
33:19
And they were like, what have you not read it?
33:20
Like most of my team's read the book and she hadn't.
33:21
And they were like, no no she was like, no I never got around to it, you know, I've read bits.
33:26
So like So, my question is I heard Chrissy said something similar where like she sees the name of a song and then she's like wondering like wait a minute, how did he call that the name of the song?
33:35
Like is she your number one fan?
33:36
Does she listen to everything?
33:36
Or or do you often find that like she's catching up with everyone else?
33:42
Well, she doesn't love hearing like demo versions of songs.
33:45
So, she doesn't like to kind of be in the sausage making part of the album.
33:52
And so she'd rather hear it once everything's done.
33:54
And so that ends up meaning that she's like learning about things when, you know, close to when a lot of other people are learning about them, too.
34:03
Um and so yeah, there are times when she's like, oh, news to me. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
34:09
And I But she she just doesn't like to be in early on the process because she's found, I think from when we first started dating that when she fell in love with the demo versions that we changed them so much that she didn't like, you know, um kind of falling in love with the early versions because it kind of almost disappointed her when the finished version was out because she felt like less connection to it. Oh, wow.
34:33
So, she decided she would just didn't want to be involved early on in the sausage making.
34:36
Well, she has good reasoning.
34:37
My wife just didn't have time for me, but but I I find that's interesting in couples, right?
34:42
The idea of like we were talking about being a good example as a couple and trying to build that loving relationship.
34:47
Like I find that in an immature stage in my relationship, I constantly wanted my wife to be my number one fan. Uh-huh.
34:55
Like I There was a time where I was like, "I want her to read everything and listen everything and watch everything and share everything."
35:01
And like this I'm talking about like maybe like 7-8 years ago.
35:05
And then as time went on, I just started to realize I was like, "Well, she's not with me for those things, right?"
35:08
Like she can support them and appreciate that. Sure.
35:12
But she's living with the real me and is experiencing that.
35:15
Like I guess my question is like how do couples appreciate and admire each other in an effective way when often we just lean on our partner for validation and glorification often. Yeah.
35:29
I still really want Kristy to be into my work. it.
35:34
And and and I think more so because like it just feels good uh to know that she has good taste and and she loves music and that she likes something I did.
35:44
Like, you know, I'm like, "That's awesome."
35:47
And I want her to love it and I respect her a lot and I trust her a lot.
35:50
And I feel like she has good taste.
35:52
So, if she likes something I did and she especially likes it, then that's a really good sign for me. Yeah, yeah. Uh so, it feels good.
35:58
Like it's not that I'm insecure about it.
36:02
It's that like I really want her to love it.
36:04
And I want everyone to love it, but I want her to love it more. I know, I'm the same.
36:09
I was I was doing something recently, but but my wife's also the person that will give you the most honest feedback. Yes.
36:15
Like I will practice a presentation or whatever I'm doing in front of uh and she will just pick it apart, but I know she's doing it out of love cuz she also wants me to be incredible at what I do.
36:25
And we help each other so much uh and we believe in in each other and we support each other so much.
36:29
So, you know, when she's working on a cookbook, I'm you know, helping her. I'm tasting stuff.
36:35
I'm doing whatever I can to help.
36:35
And you know, we collaborate on a lot of business things together.
36:40
So, there's a lot we do together.
36:43
But she doesn't like to be in in the weeds of my music creating career.
36:49
But she goes a lot of my shows.
36:53
She always has feedback for Yeah.
36:53
Um you know, how we can put the show together better, be more effective you know, the set list and arrangements and different things like that.
37:01
She has ideas about how it should look and she's giving me great feedback over the years on that kind of stuff.
37:08
So, I'm always happy when she's proud of me and when she's excited.
37:11
That's when you know, I feel very like okay, we're doing something right here.
37:16
Yeah, no, I feel that I can relate to that too.
37:18
Like I'm like if I do something and my wife's happy, it's a different it's a different form of happy.
37:23
Like my Vegas show like I'm so proud of it, but it was especially good for me to hear that she was so proud of it.
37:30
And and so excited to show her friends and you know, tell people about it cuz that just it was like it's an an extra good feeling when when she says that. Yeah, definitely.
37:44
No, I relate and I I think the question came from I think it was when she said something about when she saw the song title I don't love you like I used to. love you like I used to.
37:54
And that's an interesting song It's a good song.
37:57
because it's like when you go through things together, you learn more about each other.
38:00
You grow and it's not the same kind of love you had when you first met.
38:08
When we first met, we were like very attracted to each other.
38:10
It was It was our chemistry was great.
38:15
But that level of attraction is more like infatuation at the beginning of a relationship and love when it is able to stand the test of time, it has to be deeper and more like more real than that.
38:31
We've been through enough together where it's like really fortified us and made us stronger and those tests have made us grow together and and you know, realize things about each other that we didn't know and going through all of that makes you be able to write and sing a song called I don't love you like I used to.
38:53
It's it's different now, but it's better. Yeah, yeah.
38:57
I love I love that song cuz I I felt the same way.
38:59
I was just like that is such a great title because you're like, oh no, what's going on?
39:03
And then you're like, no, actually it's true.
39:05
And I think the challenge with love is that we we've been programmed to believe that it should stay the same.
39:10
We've been programmed to believe that you should go recreate your first date.
39:13
And everything should feel like your first date.
39:15
And it's almost like, well, what if it got better?
39:18
You know, what if there's more?
39:20
What were you like when you met Chrissy and how have you evolved you think as a as a man, as a human, as a person?
39:24
Like what what is evolved and grown about you in a positive way?
39:28
Well, I think I was more selfish then.
39:31
Like I wasn't a great partner at the beginning of our relationship even though I was very into her and and very excited to be with her.
39:40
Like I was still selfish.
39:43
I was in my, you know, mid-20s.
39:45
Still like, you know, not ready to fully be like the committed partner that I am now.
39:52
partner that I am now. But, you know, once you really figure out that you love someone and you're really like love so much about them and you really want to make it work with that person, like you have to decide like I'm going to do the things I need to do to be a good partner in this relationship and I've just grown
40:15
uh, a person because of that, too, because when you stop being so selfish, when you think about not only the joy you get from a situation and the pleasure you get from it, but also think about your responsibility and your commitment in that situation, I think you just grow and you mature and that's, you know, I think part of it's just a matter of time. You need time to become
40:35
You need time to become that person that you want to be.
40:39
Thinking in your mid-20s, you're still dealing with impulse control, you're still dealing with selfishness, you're still figuring out what you want to do in your career.
40:44
All these things are happening, but, um, when you figure those things out, you can just be a better person in general.
40:53
And I think it makes you better at other things, too, when you're when you're able to understand that balance between what you're trying to get from a relationship, but also what you need to give to make it work. Yeah.
41:05
What What did you think that you didn't value about her in the beginning, but today like, you're like, "Oh, I noticed that more now."
41:09
Like, I I I didn't even get that at that time because of my immaturity or earliness?
41:14
Well, I I feel like I've just learned so much about her personality, how she reacts to stress, how she reacts to life, how she can find a joke even in like the craziest, even in grief, like she's able to find humor.
41:30
And like, I feel like you see so many things about your partner as you grow together and as you experience adversity together.
41:37
And what I've seen from her has just made me love her more and value her more.
41:41
Uh, like I think she's cooler now than I've ever thought she was.
41:45
Like, I just really have seen her in all kinds of situations.
41:53
I just value her more and and and and and all of her more than I ever have been. That's beautiful. That's great.
42:00
I I I wish the same for my marriage, too.
42:02
It's uh It's definitely going to be a honestly. I I love love.
42:05
I went to two weddings this weekend. Oh, wow. Okay.
42:09
and like, I truly like I can I when I'm at these weddings like I genuinely get emotional and I genuinely feel like joy for this couple in in embarking on this journey together and I love celebrating that.
42:24
I love um seeing it flourish and and seeing people who are committed to each other make it work. Like I love it. Yeah. No, me too. I love love too.
42:34
I've just written a whole new book about love.
42:38
It comes out next year, but it's like I I officiated two weddings in the last 12 months. Uh-huh.
42:42
And the difference the pressure and the honor of doing that my whole thought process in my head is don't cry. Mhm.
42:49
Don't cry cuz I love love so much and all I want to do is like cry and just like appreciate the moment.
42:53
I'm I haven't had to officiate any weddings and I've I've sung at quite a few. Yeah, I can imagine.
42:59
But uh yeah, I would I got emotional this week and and I think part of it is being a dad too now because uh when I watch uh dad walk her down the aisle, I got super emotional.
43:11
I was just thinking about my daughter and thinking about my son and just thinking about, you know, just what it means to pour all this love into these little people and and then to watch them grow up and and experience life and find love. Uh it was beautiful. That's amazing. I love that. I love that.
43:32
And on you mentioned grief and then you uh the song Pieces in the new album.
43:37
There's there's the beautiful lyric heart learn to live in pieces. Mhm.
43:42
And I just I literally just haven't stopped thinking about that because I think that there's so much about us that's constantly trying to get everything to fit. Mhm.
43:51
And even with a heart we're trying to become whole again.
43:55
Like there's always that concept, but you're like let your broken heart learn to live in pieces.
43:58
Like where did that come from? Like that idea.
44:02
idea of the song is that we never completely shed or forget this trauma that we may go through in life, this loss, this heartbreak. Like, we'll remember it.
44:13
There'll be times when we'll feel those pangs of of memory and that it'll come back.
44:19
Um it doesn't mean you can't heal, it doesn't mean you can't recover, but it does mean that that grief will will still be a part of who you are, a part of your story.
44:30
Effectively recovering from that means not forgetting it, not that it didn't happen, but learning to live with it and learning to continue to live with it and and and experience life and joy and pain and all the things that come in life afterwards, um continue to like live on. Yeah.
44:50
Um despite the fact that this grief won't ever leave you completely.
44:55
Yeah, it's almost it's almost like we're asking the wrong question.
44:58
We're always like, "How do I move on? How do I get over this?" Mhm.
45:01
And you're saying, "Well saying you're going to I'm saying you're going to carry it.
45:03
It's it's part it's part of your life now, it's part of your story, part of who you are.
45:08
Like I said with Chrissy, like I've seen so much growth through our grief and through our tragedy.
45:18
It's always going to be part of who we are and I'm fine with that.
45:22
Like, it's part of who we are.
45:23
It's we carry it with us and it and it's okay.
45:26
Yeah, and that and I'm sorry for your loss and I'm you know, that I mean, I don't think there's pretty much anything harder to go through than than what you went through.
45:35
I I've never been through anything harder, but it just means, you know, when you live long enough, you're going to go through something like that.
45:41
Uh and figuring out how to continue to live as you carry that with you Yeah.
45:49
is um is what the song's really about.
45:51
Yeah, and often we find that those traumatic and difficult experiences can break people apart, but you you you focus on growing closer together.
45:58
What what do you think is that difference?
46:01
Like, you your values are so clear.
46:01
I can tell in this interview.
46:03
I'm like values of children, of family, of love, of kindness, of connection.
46:06
Like how do you in moments like that?
46:08
Is it that your values just drive you forward or like how do you make sure because I think sometimes people just have experiences that derail their everything else that's going right? Yeah.
46:18
And I don't know because like I think part of it is just we are we were already on a great foundation where we really respected and loved and enjoyed being with each other, respect each other's values and the ways, you know, like well the things that we saw in each other's character that we fell in love with were still there.
46:38
But I think you also have to like commit to working through pain, you know?
46:46
Um and I think we both committed to doing it, like doing the work that we needed to do to get through it. Yeah.
46:52
No, I'm happy to hear that and, you know, my prayers and Thank you.
46:53
good wishes are with you and the family because And I think having already had two kids together was um definitely helpful because they just bring so much joy into our lives and and laughter and fun and they they're great focus for our energy.
47:13
And so even when you're going through deep grief of on losing a pregnancy, you still have these two beautiful babies that you love and I think that was certainly helpful. Yeah.
47:23
Now now the questions are moving into a selfish space where I'm asking them just for me now.
47:28
So how have you managed like what have you know, you've obviously have this beautiful relationship.
47:31
You got you got two beautiful children that you both love.
47:34
And, you know, when I think about me and my wife, like we also spend a lot of time saying, "Look, let's stabilize our relationship first before we think about having kids because we don't want to invite beautiful new souls into a relationship where we're not sure where we're going or or how we're working together."
47:51
How have you managed to be so career-focused and successful and keep a relationship successful with this because I find a lot of people having children can be the most stressful time of their life, right? It's It's stressful.
48:06
I mean, first of all, we're very fortunate.
48:07
We have lots of people around us to help us.
48:09
We can afford, you know, child care.
48:11
We can afford a lot of things that there are plenty of families that can't afford.
48:14
Having that is no small thing.
48:17
Like those having help, having my mother-in-law around, having, you know, grandparents around to help is like all these things are very helpful and they alleviate some of the stress and make it easier for parents to balance it.
48:31
But yeah, I do think you have to be ready uh to take on that responsibility.
48:36
I think um a lot of times, you know, it's about figuring out is it the right time in both of your careers to do it?
48:43
Um particularly for the woman, like it can be very difficult to figure out when that can be because uh particularly in America, we don't have a lot of leave that's available for uh maternal or paternal leave that's available for a lot of families.
48:57
Um and there's all kinds of obstacles in the way that make it harder for people to um be working parents.
49:03
Uh and so, I think a lot of people are making decisions about when to have kids based on that and that's a real like practical consideration that needs to be uh figured out um for you to be able to handle it because a lot of the stress around parenting is around having the resources and the child care that you need.
49:23
And when that's not right, it can be stressful.
49:27
It can be stressful on your marriage.
49:29
It can be stressful on so many other things. And so, um yeah.
49:30
It and and and my prescription that all those things need to be in order is like a hard prescription to fill though because it's like it takes resources. It takes family.
49:43
It takes, you know, everything being aligned and and everything's not going to be perfect uh for so many families.
49:49
And they're still going to want to bring a life into the world, and um and yeah, it's it's a challenge. Yeah, no, absolutely.
49:57
And I think those things changing, I mean, yeah, when I was I was born and raised in London, and so when I worked there, like the maternity leave and the paternity leave was was fantastic.
50:05
I mean, it could be even better, but it was great.
50:07
It was like at least 6 months, and then you could extend for another 6 months if you needed it, and it was And not to be nerdy, but like these are policy things that can affect people's decisions. Yeah.
50:18
You know, we're having a lot of conversation around reproductive rights, and and whether the state can force people to have kids, and what I think our conservative fellow citizens should realize is that people sometimes would like to have kids, but they're not in a place to be able to afford it or take care of it.
50:40
And so if there are policy solutions like child tax credits, free child care, that would make it more likely choose to have kids.
50:52
have kids. And I think there's so many families that could use that kind of support, and I I feel like one way that we could come together, conservatives and progressives, is say if you really believe in this idea that families are important as like a
51:10
foundation for our society, and you want to do things to support people having children in their lives and and building families, like one way to do that is make sure they have the resources to to make that choice in a way that they can handle it and their family can handle it. Yeah, is that one of the
51:28
Yeah, is that one of the areas that you've been focused on as you were speaking about earlier with has that been an area of focus for you?
51:34
Well, there's something I think about all the time, so I think about it when it comes to our schools, making sure our schools have the resources that they need, making sure our communities have the resources they need.
51:42
And it's it's kind of the impetus behind my entire political kind of inclination is how do we make our society more livable, more loving, more just, more equitable, and how do we support folks who don't have the resources they need right now?
52:01
How do we make sure they get those resources?
52:03
And so, a lot of times my work has been about the criminal justice system, but what I like to do is point out the choices that we make around criminal justice and how they are resource choices as well.
52:21
They're more interconnected.
52:22
Yes, they're more connected because because when we spend so much of our societal energy and resources and budgets on policing and locking people up, that necessarily precludes us from investing that money in other things.
52:39
And so, my advocacy work has really been around let's invest in these things that are edifying, that are building, that are productive, that are loving, that are just, and not invest as much as we have in the things that are more destructive and more about the state monopolizing force and violence through policing and jailing people.
53:05
Yeah, thank you so much for going nerdy on us. It was good. We we had to lay it out. No, it's important.
53:09
No, it's important. I you know, I I think it's I think it is important to see the interconnectedness of a a value of you know, family man, children, and then how that actually scales up to an economy and a society because we can have these in our small units, but it needs to change at a And I get into arguments, you know, with with friends
53:29
of mine who are I'm close with and you know, they'll they'll see these news stories about crime going up and robberies going up and and and they'll always kind of default to well, we just got to punish people more, like make them scared to do these kinds of things and what I'm always thinking about is well how do we create a society where just less of that is happening? How do
53:49
How do we create a society where people are healthier, they have the resources they need, they're not homeless, they're not addicted to drugs, and when they are they're being treated and not punished.
54:03
Like how do we create a society society like that?
54:05
And then a lot of these issues with violence and with uh property crimes and all these other things, they'll go down if we're investing in the kind of preventative measures that would make us healthier in general. Yeah, absolutely.
54:21
You were speaking about, you know, the journeys of people like from everyone that you were homeschooled around or in your community, like the journey that you've taken is that I'm guessing obviously that's very unique. It's very different.
54:32
Uh when you when you look back on your life now, it's like A what's there like what keeps you going?
54:40
And when you look back, what do you look back at and go that was really special and that was beautiful and and that was something that I'll always cherish. What keeps me going?
54:48
Well, part of it is just the joy I get from creating new things.
54:53
Um it's a very like amazing sense of gratification that you get when you walk into a room and nothing exists except, you know, loose ideas in your head and then a few hours later like you walk out with this new thing that exists. It's a song.
55:10
And like that song could be the one that changes your life.
55:15
It could mean something to all kinds of other people.
55:18
I I just at the wedding I I went to one of the weddings I went to this weekend, some guy said I went to your show and it actually saved my marriage.
55:26
And like I could be writing that song that saves someone's marriage tomorrow.
55:31
And the fact that I get to go to work and create something brand new that didn't exist before is such a joy and I truly like I want to do it all the time. That keeps me going.
55:44
And then being on stage is really exciting for me and fun.
55:49
I love the connection I feel with the audience.
55:52
I love when the show just feels like everybody's clicking on all cylinders.
55:56
We're doing this together.
55:56
We've got band members, dancers, singers.
56:00
Everybody came together to put this show on and we get it right and we feel the energy from the crowd and we feel the love from the crowd and we're giving it to them, they're giving it back.
56:09
And we feel this connection and this chemistry, this energy that we're all creating together. I love it.
56:15
I truly love it and I want to do it as long as as long as people will listen to me.
56:22
I I think I think that's going to be a long time, Sam.
56:24
What Who's someone that you spoke about collaborations?
56:26
Who's someone that's no longer with us that you would have loved to have collaborated with in person or that you think could have like brought something out of you that Nina Simone.
56:36
I'm a big Nina Simone fan.
56:36
I named my daughter Luna Simone after her and and I um I've always loved her artistry and I would just love to jam with her. It would be so fun.
56:47
She's such a great musician and has such a cool approach to arranging songs.
56:52
She always did such interesting covers of songs, too.
56:54
Like she would do like the definitive cover of so many songs just because her musicianship and her point of view is so interesting.
57:02
I would love to just soak in that for a little while. Yeah.
57:04
And what about someone who's alive that you haven't collaborated with yet?
57:07
Someone that you find inspiring in any field of music or anything? Uh Kendrick Lamar.
57:12
I love I just went to see his show.
57:15
No, he's like I've worked with almost every rapper in in history.
57:20
But uh Kendrick, I'm truly a fan of and I went to go see his show this weekend and love his new album. Love all of his albums.
57:27
I just think the level of artistry and care that he puts into everything is just so impressive.
57:31
He's one of my favorite artists in any genre right now.
57:36
I think he's just incredible. I love that.
57:39
When when you're working on an album like how much Because you're someone who who works consistently on an album for a long amount of time before it comes out, right?
57:47
Like there's not always new music all the time.
57:51
What kind of in that creative process, like how do you stay inspired in the ups and downs and the ebbs and flows of a long creative process, which is rare nowadays?
58:00
Like when you talk about someone like Kendrick, right?
58:01
Like everyone talks about Kendrick as someone who work on an album for a couple of years, which used to be the norm and it's rare. Yeah.
58:08
It's still the norm for me.
58:08
Like Yeah, that's what I mean.
58:09
Yeah, so Yeah, I feel like making an album is about a 2-year process for me and I try to put them out every 2 or 3 years, but you're not always going to be inspired every day, but there's always another day and you know most albums, you know, around an hour or a little bit less, a little bit more.
58:24
I did a double album this time.
58:25
It's an hour 20 minutes, but like over a 2-year period, I'm going to have enough inspiration to make an hour. You know. Yeah, yeah, that's true.
58:33
Uh so, there'll be days when, you know, you don't feel it and uh like I said, one of my best ways of combating any kind of writer's block is having other energy around me and other creative people in the room so that I feel like I can get inspired by things that are outside of my own head. Yeah.
58:53
Um and so, I think that's important.
58:56
Scheduling the time to write, I think is important rather than just kind of waiting around for inspiration randomly to hit because you need I think you need to actively summon that uh rather than just kind of uh hoping it'll uh going to knock you over the head every once in a while.
59:13
Um you need to actively summon it.
59:15
And so, for me, scheduling the time is important, too. Yeah.
59:18
Do you Do you have any like weird quirks or habits of to help summon that moment or like some kind of things that you need around you or any items or things you need to see or that or is it more like just scheduling, planning, structure?
59:29
And then you want inspiration to come and like it could come from a movie you saw or just a line from the movie.
59:37
Inspiration could come from a song you listen to in the car on the way to the studio.
59:40
Inspiration could come from just a random conversation you had where just this line like stuck out to you.
59:45
And then like I said before, a lot of us do collaborations so a producer may come in and he have a track or she'll have a track and play it for you and it's just music but it speaks to you and you'll feel something from it and then build a song from that.
1:00:06
And so those are different ways inspiration comes.
1:00:08
Yeah, what what's been the difference about the first day when you stepped into a studio like to now when you step in?
1:00:14
Like what were the emotions and the feelings then? What's changed? What's stayed the same?
1:00:18
Well, I I think I have a better understanding of what I want to do now when I go in the studio.
1:00:25
I think um before I just had less creative confidence, I think.
1:00:31
And I've earned it through just work. Yeah.
1:00:33
Like time, work, repetition, like I've just written a lot and when I walk in the studio now, I just feel like I know how to write a song.
1:00:42
I know how to write a really good song.
1:00:45
And I just need to like work on it.
1:00:46
I need to spend the time, spend the energy and do all those things to get inspired like I said before and then I'll figure it out.
1:00:55
Yeah, John, you've been so gracious with your time and energy. Thank you.
1:00:58
I've loved this conversation. It's been This is fun. We've gone everywhere.
1:01:01
Like we just We talked about relationships.
1:01:04
We talked about children.
1:01:04
We talked about your childhood.
1:01:05
Like it's been so beautiful.
1:01:06
We We end every episode with two segments.
1:01:08
Uh one's a fast five quick question.
1:01:11
So one word to one sentence answers maximum.
1:01:13
And then I'll tell you about the other one.
1:01:15
So John Legend, these are your fast five. All right.
1:01:19
Uh question number one, what's the best advice you've ever received?
1:01:21
I love Quincy Jones' advice.
1:01:23
He says, "Steal from the best." Nice.
1:01:26
That means, you know, be open to being influenced and like take some of that.
1:01:30
Yeah, that's a great answer.
1:01:32
listen to different artists that you love and like think about how to incorporate their artistry into what you do.
1:01:38
And I think the more I know this is longer than I said. It's good. It's good. It's a good answer.
1:01:43
the more the more you do it Yeah.
1:01:43
you just start to develop who you are but it's informed and inspired by all your influences. Yeah, love that answer. You're you're allowed. It's good. You're allowed to go.
1:01:54
Question number two, what's the worst advice you've ever heard or received? I I don't know.
1:01:59
I don't really catalog bad advice.
1:02:02
Uh one thing we laughed about was Kanye didn't like the title Ordinary People for a song.
1:02:11
Wow, yeah, yeah, of course I remember that. his mind after a while.
1:02:15
At first he was like he was like he was like, "Can you come up with a better But it went out that way. It never got changed.
1:02:21
No, it never got changed.
1:02:21
Yeah, so it never got changed.
1:02:23
But it was his he was like, "Can you come up with something better to say than that?"
1:02:27
But eventually he fell in love with it and ended up directing the video for it and and and it became you know obviously a very important song at the beginning of my career.
1:02:39
But we always thought it was funny that he was like, "I'm not sold on this Ordinary People idea." I love that. Yeah.
1:02:46
Question number three, what's something that you used to value that you don't value anymore? Oh, I don't know.
1:02:54
Well, I mean, we just go through different phases in life and I think I wanted you like a certain kind of freedom when I was younger.
1:03:05
Um when I was a bachelor and you know, you like treasure this kind of freedom and living like without as many commitments.
1:03:13
But then you fall in love and you have kids with someone and then like the commitment and the and the responsibility is like it's it's like it's life defining in so many ways.
1:03:23
And uh you don't value that that kind of freedom that you thought you wanted before.
1:03:30
Yeah, that's a beautiful answer.
1:03:32
We never never had that answer before.
1:03:33
That's that's a special one.
1:03:33
All right, question number four.
1:03:35
The podcast is called On Purpose.
1:03:36
So, how would you define your current purpose in life?
1:03:38
My purpose is to bring love into the world.
1:03:43
Um I it's so much the core of who I am um artistically but also politically.
1:03:47
I think love is like I'm not religious. Love is my religion. Yeah. Yeah, that's beautiful.
1:03:55
And fifth and final question for the fast five is if you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be? Woof. One law?
1:04:06
We ask this to every guest.
1:04:06
So, you're getting asked the same questions as every guest. Oh.
1:04:11
Well, I I want to go back to love one another. Yes. Yes, keep it simple. Yes. Yeah.
1:04:17
That's a very Christian that it's like the part of our uh Jesus's uh two commandments were that you would love God and that you would love your neighbor as you loved yourself.
1:04:28
And if you think about that idea of loving your neighbor as yourself, um it's a pretty powerful idea. Absolutely.
1:04:35
And if that were to guide our behaviors and our politics and and and just the way we treated each other, it would be I don't know, pretty good world to live in. Absolutely. Absolutely.
1:04:45
All right, and these these ones are going to be shorter.
1:04:48
This is uh a segment called The Many Sides to Us.
1:04:50
And so again, this can be one word for each one, literally one word.
1:04:55
So, what is a word to describe what someone would say about you meeting you for the first time? Calm. Definitely.
1:05:03
You were very calm when you came in today.
1:05:04
I would I would have to agree with that.
1:05:06
We walked over, you were very calm.
1:05:07
Yeah, I don't have a lot of like highs and lows.
1:05:11
Uh I'm very even keel through life, which can be frustrating like as a partner.
1:05:18
Like Chrissy would like for me sometimes to be a little more dynamic, but but I think, you know, but it's also like it's a gift and a curse because when you're going through like tough times and you need stability and you need a rock around you, I can be a rock.
1:05:33
Well, that's why you need the humor in this one tonight. Exactly.
1:05:35
That's why we're good together. Yeah. That's my wife too.
1:05:37
My wife's the spontaneous one. I'm the even keel one. That works for us.
1:05:41
All right, question number two.
1:05:43
What's a word to describe what someone would describe you that knows you very well?
1:05:46
I think honestly so much much of how my friends will describe me is that I'm an even keel person, that I'm a calming presence, and that I don't have a lot of highs and lows.
1:05:58
So, I think people that first meet me think that, but people that know me for a long time think that as well. Oh, that's good.
1:06:04
That's That's not a bad thing.
1:06:05
All right, question number three.
1:06:07
What is a word This time you can't say the same answer.
1:06:10
Cuz we're going to have the same answer.
1:06:12
But the first two made sense.
1:06:12
What is a word you would use to describe yourself? Creative.
1:06:15
I love I love to create and I love putting new things out into the world. Yeah.
1:06:23
What's a word that someone that maybe doesn't agree with you would say about you?
1:06:27
Well, let me think Let me go to Let me go to my Twitter mentions.
1:06:33
Well, I think people that don't know me, you know, they they know me you know, they know that I call myself John Legend.
1:06:38
That was an assumed stage name. I wasn't born that.
1:06:43
So, they probably think I'm pretty arrogant.
1:06:44
Um uh you know, I don't think I am, but you know, I could give off that uh sense that, you know, I'm pretty arrogant. Right. Okay.
1:06:52
All right, and question number five, the last one.
1:06:55
What's a word that you're trying to embody? Love. Love. I love it. John Legend everyone.
1:07:00
Uh the masterclass on songwriting John Legend teaches.
1:07:04
Songwriting is available right now.
1:07:06
I hope you go and subscribe to MasterClass genuinely.
1:07:08
It is a phenomenal platform when you get access to all these incredible thinkers, leaders, teachers, guides when you sign up.
1:07:16
As I said, I've been a subscriber since Bob Iger's and I cannot wait.
1:07:20
I I Can I become a good songwriter, John? That is the question.
1:07:25
Even though That's a good question.
1:07:25
I feel like I feel like there has to be some level of foundational musical understanding Yeah.
1:07:35
Um to use my class, but I I think if you have that, it can be really helpful.
1:07:39
Well, I did grade five theory.
1:07:39
I played piano up to grade four and I used to play percussion, but I haven't done it since I was 12.
1:07:44
And you may need like a collaborator, like an instrumentalist, like a guitarist or a pianist with you to help you kind of have some music theory because I can't In my class, I don't teach you a lot of like how to play the instrument.
1:07:59
But I I teach you how to take the knowledge that you have and build a song from it. Absolutely. I love it, John.
1:08:05
Well, I hope we get to bump into each other again. Absolutely, Jay. This is a true pleasure. True pleasure. man.
1:08:09
Thank you so much for your time and energy. Great to meet you. Thank you.
1:08:11
And everyone who's been listening watching back at home or wherever you are, if you're on the move, make sure that you tag John and I on Instagram, on Twitter, on TikTok.
1:08:17
Let us know what stood out to you, what you learned, what you gained.
1:08:20
Maybe there were some amazing experiences that you didn't know anything about.
1:08:24
I love seeing what you take away, what you learn.
1:08:27
Make sure you share that with both of us and I'll see you at the next episode.
1:08:30
If you want even more videos just like this one, make sure you subscribe and click on the boxes over here.
1:08:36
I'm also excited to let you know that you can now get my book Think Like a Monk from thinklikeamonkbook. com.
1:08:45
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