most of my own beliefs are probably wrong and the way you get to understand that is just look at the smartest people from 400 years ago there's really no way to explain truth you can't put it into words George boach said all models are wrong some are useful and I think people are like way way way more similar than
they are different it's really hard to have a good idea and create something magical with without sort of submitting to this idea of something like bigger than yourself that you don't control all of the old playbooks and models are collapsing I had everyone tell me to start with either the toy or the book
and I said no the magic is you mix both of those well hello everyone it's Jim o shasy with yet another infinite loops wow today I have on John Foo I gotta ask you about the shortening of the name John founder of Bo companies and some new companies that we're going to talk about in a little bit you few companies man
like really my first question is going to be what the [ __ ] how did you do this because what he did was he started the company in 2016 bootstrapped four products being a Kickstarter of okay I I know nothing about that so I'm going to ask you to educate me and you've collectively done hundreds of millions
of dollars on these four products and man like you're amazing welcome thank you thanks for having me Jay we're excited to uh excited to dive into some infinite Loops here let's get let's go abbit woles who there are so many rabbit holes so many rabbit holes first off like give me your origin story
uh for for people who maybe on the off chance don't know who you are uh I know you quite well but let's give our listeners and viewers your your origin story okay cool um go all the way back I'll go I'll go really quick uh basically was a musician my whole life went to grew up in Boston was doing
a bunch of you know entrepreneurial stuff in high school started a few little things with selling stuff had a band all that kind of stuff ended up going to NYU on a jazz performance scholarship so I was a drummer going around all the jazz clubs playing and then uh I dropped out for a second and
went on the music side of things uh and went to go work on Justin Bieber's team I was officially his first intern uh pretty funny little s step there and then from there uh I I kind of saw the possibilities of what it meant to start your own company and um went back to New York and like really ran at this idea that I was gonna start
something and make something work and build uh some sort of consumer experience for uh for a you know uh an audience essentially that's kind of what I was doing with uh at at at Bieber's team was essentially like kind of playing this call and response with his audience and I saw how like unbelievably powerful
it was when you have this concentrated audience uh that is sort of there and engaged in in in an in an in a really insane way how you can kind of have this new form of dialogue to find what essentially they want um and so that's what I did I went out on my own and I started to kind of build uh tiny little
audiences and engage with people in different ways um and that sort of led me to uh embarrassingly starting a YouTube channel uh and doing product reviews and that kind of led me to this place where I was kind of taking the viewers on this journey of you know I'm going to search the world uh find some stuff and show
you what I'm doing in order to find an insight to create a product for you all uh and uh ended up you know doing a I was the first alurn review you know big uh big claimed to fame there did a few product reviews and then stumbled on to this idea of a weighted blanket um and you know was was the
first you know commercial weighted blanket on the market we put that on my Kickstarter uh we did you know gravity blanket uh on my on my Kickstarter and you know in 30 days we ended up doing about five million bucks in pre-sales and and that kind of you know set me down this journey of building consumer
Brands uh you know bootstrapping them did not raise Venture um very deliberately there uh and you know kind of took the momentum from Gravity blanket and then have kind of siphoned that into uh Reinventing the bean bag moonpod a personalized astrology gift company called birth date company uh and then
recently um a stuffed animal company a weighted stuffed animal company Moon Pals that comes with this whole lore of magical creatures that live on the moon watch over Earth and come down and save the world with their magical hugs so that's it that's my that's story there are so many paths to go down there uh you know you you've said some
really interesting things like ideas are harder than execution yes another thing you said was consumer businesses that require investment aren't viable so so so tell me so tell me about both of those but then also for people who don't know about how you can do this via Kickstarter you know that you don't
necessarily need to come to venture cap you know uh Venture capitalists uh either like me or like the traditional model totally yeah so uh did I are those tweets uh these are these come from my crack research team yes they were they were all quot they were all quotes and sorts so those those were probably
tweets which by the way the secret to Twitter is saying something incredibly objective that's both half true and half false and you just say that and then everyone fights and then you get a ton of followers so those tweets and Brash St statements are uh mostly true in my mind um but you know they have some
caveats so the first one was ideas are harder than execution I will die by that sword I think you know um there's been you know a recent sort of meme in startup world for the past 10 years that ideas are worthless and it's all about execution and I think the only people that really believe that are people that
have never had a good idea for because actually having a good idea is like just unbelievably unbelievably hard right like like just these tiny insights and the repositioning of a few words that sort of sit in someone's mind can basically unlock an entire new universe right um and you can see that you know
with again like there's countless countless examples of this with the startups in the past you know 10 or 15 years but like you know Airbnb the sentence and the insight there were there's been forever scaled businesses of renting businesses and you know coach surfing and whatnot the idea that you will go to someone else's home and pay
them to stay in a spare room is a sentence that is an idea that idea unlocked you know an endless amount of scalability an entirely New World an entirely new use case you know that literally moved tectonic plates around the earth that sentence right um and all of that execution that can be taught uh would
never have existed without somewhat having that insight and a moment uh of an idea U another one to back up that is sort of the you know there's a famous there's a famous uh Warren Buffett quote around you know invest in businesses that uh someone that a stupid person can run because at some point they will and
you know I think that's uh a really interesting framework right like you can basically teach anyone to run a McDonald's uh or a Subway that is a teachable thing um for someone to have the Insight of rearranging a food line to you know kind of create a new category of fast food uh that sits in an
entirely new use case than dining you know that is that is a very very unique idea uh and you know again just go and challenge anyone go and teach them how to have how to do an executable task they will be able to do it go ask them for a world changing idea um and you're going to have a lot a lot harder time
getting that out of some I actually totally agree um and the interesting thing for me is that you know my son Patrick came up with the name custom indexing good a one tiny change right so in our in the old asset management world I lived in everyone knew about indexing right and for a long
time indexing did so much better than active management that everyone loved it and everyone kind of professionals at least knew about direct indexing right but Patrick simply put custom indexing and by doing that he created a brand new category in Asset Management yep it's a totally different product right like
it's it's a totally different user the custom customer that is attracted immediately has a brand new world and a moment in their head um you know there's there's again countless examples of this Viagra was one energy drinks was another gravity blanket was essentially one right like there was a thing being that
was out in the world being used for this very specific case and I kind of just said I found that secret and I repositioned it and now we have a totally different product that is serving a totally different Market that has now basically changed the way a large portion of the population sleeps that was a lot harder than
figuring out how to sh a blanket let's talk about the gravity blanket because you and I chatted about it when you were here for lunch um the there they existed but you completely reposition them another by the way another reframe I love is used to be called Death insurance and nobody bought
it but then when they changed the name to life insurance like billions and sales yeah so so the power of just a slight reframe uh is enormous so's that what's i' scene in Vice where that movie where they where they decide to call it an estate tax or something right exact they're sitting there with all
these people like oh it's like oh yeah got Al a customer okay so so tell me about the gravity uh blanket experience and and also again a little primary on Kickstarter might be helpful for the people listening and watching totally yeah um Kickstarter is a platform that you can go to to basically present an idea
to Their audience and say is this something that you want to essentially pre-fund me to help create it uh and I had a very strong opinion about Venture Capital when I was going out to start these businesses where I really did not believe that the Venture model really clung and enabled and was well
positioned to exist in a uh in a consumer reality I was like there's just no way that these businesses are like real like you know you don't you can't buy brand you can't you know convince a customer with more money that they should stick with you it's just like not it doesn't really work for the Venture
model right you're never consumer is not align up and to the right it's the this you know up and down motion that does not really that vure does not really allow so you know I wanted to bootstrap these things Kickstarter was a really interesting way to go to a large audience and say hey I have this idea
I'll give you a discount if you pay up front and I'll ship it to you in six months so that's essentially what Kickstarter is and that allows you to you know sell your product or idea to an audience base that is willing to pay for it before you have to do anything and so you know the entire campaign of Kickstarter did not really cost really
anything except for time I made you know essentially handmade one gravity blanket photographed it put it up on this website and said hey who wants to buy this from me uh I have this new you know invention idea of a 25 pound blanket and you know boom in 30 days we did five million bucks so you know that goes back
to the second quote that you mentioned in the beginning of you know if you're selling a consumer product a physical consumer product you almost certainly don't need to raise money right like you know you need to figure out some way to finance some sort of momentum but especially today with
something like Kickstarter the internet or Twitter you basically can create a mockup of anything for no money put it out into the world and they're are enough people out there that are connected and watching you that will pay you for that idea or product upfront and then you know will give you the time and
space to say go make that and ship it to me in six months which is an incredibly incredibly attractive you know financing option for an entrepreneur so I would totally suggest most of my day of advising you know startups or entrepreneurs is basically telling them that uh they don't need to spend any money
building anything and they just need to get a ton of customers waiting in line before they spend money building anything because if you don't have customers around the block on day one I could almost guarantee that no amount of money or product or R&D is going to really make that magically appear again
the idea is harder right the getting the idea and being able to you know pitch that or tell that or explain that to a customer where it makes sense in their head where you know they are like oh a 25 pound blanket that helps me sleep that is the thing and boom you know they are signing up and they're sending me 250 bucks to H that
thing in their hands in six months um and I think you know I think if you have a consumer product or really a consumer anything anything that someone is going to consume really just you know if you if you're if you're trying to sell something to a customer you basically can make that sale with a sentence out
of your mouth uh before having anything really built or uh essentially real um and so yeah that's that's kind of the approach that I took to to launching these businesses so so the they thank you for the kickstarter uh thing I think actually that's a great idea for people with those kinds of ideas uh you know it
it it also gives you immediate Market product bit to speak VC um because like some of the things we've invested in had that very thing attached to it right like we invested in a uh group that teaches uh little kids chess and go and things like that but they do it all through storytelling yep
and literally they decided to open a store in Manhattan and Brooklyn and you know not to any business plan not to anything they just thought hey we should probably have a store and literally the line went around the block right and and I'm like okay this the the the people have spoken yeah uh the first off like
my friend Rory Sutherland who's also on our advisory here's a great line which is the single greatest strength of premarkets is their ability to generate incredibly Innovative things whose uh popularity makes no sense so okay but like gravity blankets there was an existing very small Market in psychiatric
hospitals um and I think your Genius was hey wait a minute let's flip this and make it all about sleep but you also have lots of empirical evidence for for why that works tell me first off does the idea just come to you because I'm GNA also ask you to help our listeners you know like how do you become an idea
generation machine and and also with you there yeah great idea sold lots of blankets uh by reframing but lots of empir iCal evidence too talk about that a bit where do you want me to start the idea thing yeah please let's go there first I yeah I think I think I I don't know if your researchers caught this one
but I I tweeted the other day that I think probably one of the most uh one of the most like profound questions is where did that idea come from where did you get that idea um and it's really really really crazy when you when you actually start to go down that you know okay so thought that so I thought that
but where did that thought or idea come from um and I think the weird answer is that I have no idea right like I have no idea they definitely it definitely doesn't feel like mine it doesn't feel like a unique thought that I had it feels like something like hit me uh or like yeah it's not like I'm like crafting these
things it's like like a like a a weird sensory input of a billion things where my yeah I kind of have this hallucination of like something that I think I might have seen then I'm like well wait did I see that or did I just imagine that and wait what if that actually did exist I don't know that's kind of about
so like I mean a good example is um and then I think it's again like you know you can't you can't if if you want to have good ideas you have to do good and true things uh that not a lot of people are willing to do right and so like you know a good idea is easy a good big idea is hard a good big idea that's different is
really really hard um and so you know you have to be doing something different you have to have a really good sense of what is right and wrong uh and then you have to be able to have almost you know no ego or self to be able to sort of recognize you know a thing that exists in the
world that people are you know reacting to and I think if you can if you can use yourself as the first person that's a pretty good place to start the story that I was going to tell was that when I had the idea for Moon pod the bean bag uh and maybe this helps you know people think about how to get weird ideas
uh Moon pod came from a weird whim trip I took to Japan I was in China I had you know for the first time about a week of openness where I had nothing to do and I Japan had been on top of my list forever I was alone I just bought a PL ticket went to Japan alone without any plans and that you know that right there
is somewhat of a of a strange thing to do right like I know people that go on vacation alone I know a lot of people that go on vacation alone to Japan I don't know a lot of people that have decided to go on vacation alone to Japan in probably less than 24 hours and that sounds that sounds like a tiny little subtle thing
but like the energy and the the sort of experience that happens in my heart and brain just having that subtle shift of like boom in a day you're in this foreign country you don't know anyone you can't speak the language now just try to have fun that right there gives me an entirely new lens to the world in
a very strange way that kind of lets me have this super super unique experience that is very hard to replicate or plan for right so there's probably not a lot of people that were experiencing Japan uh in that same sense and in that same sort of mind mindset that I was it that you know being said I was you know
walking through Japan in different ways checking out certain things is like okay I'm gonna go down to Kyoto I go down to Kyoto I go and check out you know a few of these Rock Gardens and you know my hallucination of a bunch of stuff trying to work and make sense of the world you
know basically brought me to this moment where I was I I looked at a monk in a rock garden sitting on a rock meditating and I was like wow that's one of the most beautiful amazing things I've ever seen but my like you know stupid American brain immediately did not think that he was sitting on a rock I thought
he was sitting on a bean bag and I was like is this monk meditating on a bean bag and then I was like whoa that's like so funny I was like but you know again that that really came for if I were to say why did I think like that that was the first day that I was in Japan uh why did I think like that again
like these tiny subtle things that you can do that will force your brain to have a reaction that might have a really interesting idea why did I think of a bean bag uh chair in this really weird strange way I had no plans or had no expectations of being in Japan and so my brain you know all of a
sudden 24 hours you know classic basic American Boy Bo you're in Japan you're seeing a rock garded I didn't have time to understand what a Japanese rock arted was I see this thing I think it's you know a stupid American bean bag and then all of a sudden I'm like whoa wait what if I kind of reinvented a bean bag to
look like that to have that experience of a mug meditating in a Japanese rock garden I'm G to build this whole idea around trying to recreate a product that's going to give everyone that moment and that was sort of the birth of moon pod which again like that is I've had like three expressives so I'm sorry
but like you know like that is sort of a weird mix of an amalgamation of what happened in my brain and in the world to sort of have this mix of a weird moment of like you know that Japanese rock Gordon I Mist it for mistake it for being a bean bag and now all of a sudden you know now I have literally the
biggest Bean Bag company in America you you know what's great about that is uh there is uh again back to uh marrying Empirical research with an event like you just uh described there's a ton of research that shows hey if you want to change yourself change your environment totally and like that's a
great example and the other thing that's really cool is you didn't have a you went on a win right so the the I the willingness to George Max says widen your luck Circle right in other words put yourself in situations that are going to increase your ability to have luck but there's also this whole idea of
cocreation that I've really come to embrace and it really opens your aperture and by co-creation I mean like there's a guy you know I'm a big fan of William Blake The Mystic painter and uh author by the way look at his not this is two centuries ago look at some of his paintings and you'll find one is a perfect example of
the DN strand of DNA yeah and when you when you read what what what Blake said he said I just had these Visions yeah and and what's really interesting to me is a lot of the formulas for quantum mechanics and physics came under similar circumstances in other words like I was sitting under a tree and had you know my
ears blocked and suddenly the perfect formulation Tesla is another guy right so this idea of look the the the the universe is something maybe much weirder and crazier than I can understand with my human brain but like there's a lot of theories Huxley is another one who who grab ideas from used to be called The
Ether what you know sheld rate calls the morphogenic field yeah and people get really weirded out when I start talking about this but like want out with a weird L more is when you actually start describing that ether and the magnetic field is God really then they really get freaked out which
is a little bit of a funny funny thing where we're at today and yeah I mean and especially today like I I here's a book that I thought of you I'm holding up the book The Genius of the Beast a radical re vision of capitalism by Howard Bloom uh I'm gonna send you copy of this because
I think you're gonna love it because what what Bloom argues is we we have so let the the E execution part the the left brain part dominate all of business for so long WR that what we really need to do is understand that the reason free markets work is because they address human's emotional needs he basically
says emotions desires that is what other people call Demand right consumer Demand right I think yeah I I think uh I think that's kind of what where where we're in this weird sort of leveling moment in the world right now where for the last you know 20 50 years we had this sort of Illusion of control and you know we have all these
scientific formulas that lead to this measurable outcome and the last you know year or so a lot of those have completely shattered and you know you find out that that thing that we knew as fact forever was actually bought and paid for by a company and this thing that was you know a fact actually you
know well know scientists just discovered a new molecule that completely discredits everything and now we have aliens showing it's like you know we're kind of having this weird you know ego death like this societal ego death of like oh [ __ ] like I actually don't I actually can't control all of
this I actually don't know the answer and I think when you're talking about Arc and having ideas in creation it's really hard to have a good idea uh and cre create something magical without sort of submitting to this idea of something like bigger than yourself that you don't control and that is kind of you know when you start to step
outside of yourself and you start to sort of watch while you were talking about the the E and flow and the waves of the market or consumers or people and that is you know a very uncomfortable and scary place for a lot of people to go to and I think you know my my counter you know everyone thinks that like these
crazy artists um are like unbelievably egotistical and you know oh look at them they're obsessed with themselves I think Kanye is the best example of this is like everyone thinks that he's this like ego Maniac I I guess maybe paradoxically but actually like it is impossible to create on the level that
he's created for as many people as he's created to have an ego I actually would say that the the mistake that people make when they look at this archetype of a of a of a man of of a maniacal artist is that you know they're egotistical and self-obsessed and attention obsessed I would say it's the exact opposite um
that they basically have completely submitted themselves to this idea that they actually do not uh and cannot create anything for themselves and they've submitted to this idea of that it is all for this people and you know for The Ether you know for God right um you see a lot of these things happen
where in this again like the second you have a moment where you kind of create something that gets someone else to have a reaction and you really reflect on what happened in your brain and in your part to be able to create that for that person to have that reaction you you know if you have a sense of yourself
during that motion that that moment of creation I can basically promise you that the reaction that that other person has when they experience that creation is not going to be as strong or as magical as if you completely let go and submit to this idea that you are creating for from not yourself or for
yourself for something way way way bigger um and I I think that that's you know kind of a a weird um it's a weird kind uh uh uh it's something that has fallen by the wayside uh recently with with things being so measured in this idea of worshipping data and numbers and formulas um I'm really excited that
we're kind of getting to a new place in the world where we're actually figuring out that there's another side to that coin that a ton of that data numbers and measurements could be completely and Incredibly wrong uh and that's a really fun place to be if you're trying to create something to totally agree and what's
interesting is like when when I'm I always try to Fashion my current thinking about this to the person I'm chat chatting with right so like if you're dealing with a hardcore materialist in the scientific sense right not not somebody who's a big consumer but a you know naive realism uh in other words all we what we see is out
there and you know uh everything exists without our interacting with it ET I I simply slip into well then read the beginning of infinity by David Deutsch because what he explains is like certainty is De like literally de yeah and and you know when when you it's stasis leads to death movement is life
yes and and guess what go back Lau was writing about this centuries ago and you can you can find it every where but then you say to the materialist hey it's a complex adaptive system and immediately they're like oh oh I oh that makes sense so in other words ideas emerge from uh below not
from above in a complex adaptive system and they're like you can get them on board but it's it's really interesting as I've adjusted my own thinking like certain things are great to have just the backs mam like my old field of quantitative investing really for that particular domain very very helpful yeah
uh but for these kinds of domains use it to support use it to generate ideas but like then not nearly as important in fact we're doing a whole series called the great reshuffle that you and I talk about like all of the old playbooks and models are collapsing yeah they don't they don't work anymore yeah and and
it's taking people a first off it's really pissing people off and secondly uh they have great ricit to embracing the new way of looking at the world yes and I I personally think like it its time has come because you know you mentioned Da Vinci and the Woodpecker and uh I I I like that story but I also had a thought as I was
getting ready to check with you again is that it seems to me that people I hate dichotomies I hate labeling but this is going to be just a useful discussion point so so would that Proviso right like I I had two thoughts one were you know I I hate dichotomies because you're not one or the other
right you're not you're not a uh a Myers Brig entp if you s self-label yourself or a big five or an anyr or any of that kind of stuff like I know a lot of people would just love that [ __ ] and I'd find it interesting right because I just look and say okay interesting but back to the dichotomy right so there
there two thoughts that I had were people who believe that there is some external truth with a capital T are are forever bitterly disappointed because they spend a lot of their life looking for that truth which is exogenous to them and we can talk about like maybe there is and maybe people are getting to it in a variety of
different ways that's fine but and then the the other people who are like you know what most most of my own beliefs are probably wrong and the way you get to understand understand that is just look at the smartest people from 400 years ago take the smartest man in the world for woman from 400 years ago and look at
their beliefs and almost all of them are wrong and so when when you when you have that kind of attitude which is hey right now this is the best best explanation but guess who's really good at generating new ideas Innovations explanations we humans right and and so so we are very much in the loop so to
speak yeah on the idea and generation and these better explanations and then a separate dichotomy which which I think works pretty well too is Wizard verse Warrior right so are you a wizard which is an abundance mentality where you're like hey I'm gonna grab an idea from The Ether and I'm G to play with it and I'm
gonna see I'm gonna see what happens are you a warrior what Warriors do is like there's a [ __ ] treasure behind that goddamn dragon in the cave and I'm gonna kill the dragon and I'm gonna grab his treasure to me that's kind of like the ultimate scarcity mindset so reaction okay all right you want to do I
I God it's too hard conversations are too hard my new thing is that that I want to have it I want to have a I want to do an experiment where you have people to a place for a week and you make them hang out but no one's allowed to talk that there you know those exist yeah but not not like the woo woo like
yoga like it's like no like you have to like you have to find like I just think very interesting things would happen like like like objective leaders would emerge right like there's no amount of words that I can say that can like trick people into doing something like there's a very real objective reality in you
know this idea of like Talent or like Destiny like without using words or cope or descriptions like everyone knows who is you know the smartest person in the room or you know even you know taboo the most beautiful person in the world I think all of this stuff is way more binary and
objective uh than people think which is why you know the the the Wizard and the the warrior or uh uh Paradox is one that I that's always been in my brain um I think it's in a lot of people uh and I talked about this with Patrick on his podcast is that I think I think you know I think the real goal is to is to
figure out and accept that both of those pieces are are a part of essentially everyone and that the actual real goal is to not be certain that you are one or the other like we talk right forever you know rep of how do I integrate both of these things and become the you know the wizard Warrior right and you know I get
if you look at the if you look at the true true true Masters who are objectively World shaping great you know heroic humans that existed I would argue that they really really figured out how to get both of those things right at the same time um by the way that was what's so funny is that was my that exactly was
my conclusion as well yes yeah I I you okay our second book that we're going to write together uh I I actually have most of this written but it was really was a really like groy framework that I came up with in high school but it's still like super super true it's I had this like you know idea and this this
realization that like you know I because I kept on going back and forth I was a jazz performance I was Jazz drummer and then I was the Captain Lacrosse team and I was like ah like you know which one and I was like you know am I EQ or IQ you know and it's like going back and forth and then in in high school I was
like you know what no I'm mq like I'm I need to be the motion quotient I should measure myself in terms of motion and motion is the only truth and that the motion emerges from understanding the resonant point that you exist on between the IQ and the EQ and when you get both of those right
then you sort of like resonate wave like boom and you shoot right and you just move to me that is the true form of you know greatness intelligence and truth if is when you can find someone and you feel something that has both of those the yin and yang you know working in Tandem and that is what I would probably
call you know mq for lack of a better term um and you know I think I think that's kind of you know what what a lot of this forever battle is is figuring out you know and again just being open to the fact that like that is this forever non-ending you know task that you have and I think people one one
might even say infinite infite infinite oops oops but yeah I mean I think I think you can see this a lot when you talk to uh if you go and talk to like a super super famous or accomplished just artists you know they kind of have this like really really um depressive attitude to them of like well you know I'm just making this
stupid [ __ ] right it's like I'm just like doing this and these people whatever and then similarly you know top of the circular Spectrum you go and talk to you know a a a Trader that you know just traded or a guy that just saw an opportunity and sold his company for 500 million bucks all that guy is doing is
how do I take all this money that I earned uh and how do I go buy really cool famous art friends right like or like how do I how do I like invest in my passion projects now and it's like you missed it man like the artist missed it and and the trader missed it where like the purpose and the real real real fun
game that never ends how do you become the artistic Trader and you know that's I think that's like a really that is the that is the sort of path or the the framework that I kind of try to use um to to go down and build what I'm building and I've had everyone tell me every every that I'm the opposite all the time right
like I had so many people when I had these ideas uh for marketing um just tell me oh dude you're so good at marketing just just be a marketing agency and I was like yeah but then you're kind of just you know you're leaving all of this Enterprise Value on the table and they're like well why do
you care about that you're an artist I was like I don't know I kind of want to compete and then you know you go and you talk to uh you go and you talk to the artists and they're like oh you soulless like capitalist like you know how you just go and like work on Wall Street or something and it's like well no I really
like creating stuff to uls for children and telling a story around them it's like well you know you know how do you get both of those existing together and uh and I think doing that and flexing those muscles and building that sort of creation mechanism in your brain and your heart is a really really fun way to
go through life where you know I I feel like I am really excited about life in uh fairly unique way because I get to flex both of those muscles at the same time and that has you know been really really exciting for me uh over the past you know five to 10 years of building this stuff is I get to be the artist I
get to be the wizard and the warrior um and it's it's just a longer game it's really hard it's it's you know it's not gonna happen in a five-year exit it's gonna happen in a four-year journey and you know you just got to be patient and sort of enjoy playing both sides of the
game could not agree more and the interesting thing is like uh for me you know what res it so strongly it's like I've been reading the abouted Jing since I was 18 years old and then kind of when I was in my mid1 15s I finally began to understand it yeah and and like that's that's the message man it's yin yang
you've got to have them together I love your Tweet is that was that a real tweet that was a that that was a real tweet but I took it down because ohar believe it well I learned that they had had uh stacked the deck and I I I know I know uh what what John is talking about it was a uh a tweet of um a Quantum uh event happening quantum
entanglement I think if my memory is right and and it looks just like the symbol of the do uh but what's really interesting is it's it's like physics is coming around too now right uh in terms of the way they're looking at things and a really interesting thing is like most of the like I think I brought up the
book The Two cultures with by CP snow when we were chatting when you were here and and like the the book was like essentially why have we separated these two science and art like it it's insane that we have separated these two yeah and and so I think that you know the ability to and I love the because the
other thing about the da is it's all about movement right I have tweeted many times stasis equals debt movement equals life right and and that which is brittle uh breaks easily that which is Supple bends with the thing and like in these simple concepts are really profound ways to look at hey well maybe
I should be trying to incorporate that much more into the way I'm doing things but as you say it's like really hard it's really hard I another thing you say uh that I want to talk about is the idea that magic is real so so talk to me about that I love it because it also is part of that whole the this illusion of
certainty one of the things that I found about human OS that's a real Pitfall is that We crave certainty to such an extent that like we let our we we were talking earlier right about like beliefs and and things that people think of as true as you go through time if you study history right yeah there's there
are some Elemental things that are really interesting to to like watch transform it's kind of like George boach said all models are wrong some are useful and I I really agree with that it's like the when tmy came up with his uh Astro astronomy right completely wrong completely utterly wrong but
[ __ ] useful yeah you could navigate through the tmic system like you never could before and then we got a better explanation right perus came along if you are open to this idea that hey let's just keep our minds completely open for better explanations better ideas you come up with with things like that um
but but talk about throw the magic into the mix for me yeah I I I think um I think it it's kind of like you know that's like a fun little that's a fun sentence to to yell at people U and look them dead in the eye and be like no no no no no like magic is totally real and you know they kind of get freaked out a
little bit but you know there's a really annoying philosophical way to kind of deconstruct that which is you know what is Magic right like what is that um and you know to me magic is this I think probably I'm trying to think of the best way to describe it I think magic to me is sort of this moment where
you know objectively you know your free will is sort of uh extracted you know like you basically have no choice but to have this reaction and you know again like it's really hard to look to find someone who can look at you know the 16 Chapel or something or the you know statue of David and be like yeah you
know not I missed that you like everyone that goes and experiences these things has this element of like wow like their soul sort of leaves their body and they sort of have this moment of like whoa and like I think you can say that about a lot of things right and I think people are like way way way more similar
than they are different and when I say magic is real it's this idea that something so profound is happening that you know it sort of has this objective it it Elites this objective action that is completely unexplainable right and like you know again you can say that uh you can have this explanation through some sort of
quantum entanglement lens or you can have this explanation around like you know why do babies just clap or like smile and laugh I I I actually think um I think the recent thing we're kind of experiencing this weird magic right now on Tik Tok uh uh there's a trick there's a Tik Tok Trend that I stayed up and
watched last night probably like 20 30 minutes of girlfriends asking their boyfriends of uh hey babe how often do you think about the Roman Empire and this is something that no one really has ever talked about but there is this and I was like yeah like totally at least at least once a day at least
same with me yeah like 100% And every guy every shape every size interest grp they look like they play football they look like they're an artist they look like they're a scientist every guy's response to this is yeah a couple times a week and girls are just like what is happening how do you explain
that that is this weird idea existing in The Ether that has this you know objective reaction from a male that get gets us thinking about this idea and world that cannot escape the the the the the masculine Soul how do you explain that you know show me a model and I'll show you why that's wrong you show me a trend or a
thing that this is some sort of like you know artistic mimetic thing to be in on a joke wrong like there is no explanation for what's happening that a unspoken true law has existed in the male mind that just their imagination wanders to the Roman Empire and to me how else do you explain that other than
that is just an unexplainable magic in the world where we can all sort of giggle and laugh about how amazing this experience is and there is no explanation and so you know you can call it magic you can call it coincidence you can call it an anomaly you can call it God you can call it the ether but I am a
big big big believer that that magic you know God Market is real for sure and I can't explain it but I know that it's real yeah and one of the ways that I try to refra reframe it because I I do tend towards the more analytical and logical and and the way I try to reframe it is along the lines of you know all all of my beliefs all of
everything like I I'm sure I got many of them from people I didn't give my permission right they they inserted them into me like this idea when I saw that I didn't see the Tik Tok but I did see it on uh Twitter I just started laugh I just started laughing out loud yeah exactly because because I to my wife and
I said how many day how many times a week do you think I think about the Roman Empire she goes oh well with you probably every [ __ ] day yeah so it is it is something that can be tuned into and and you like you just have to kind of leave the expl there is no exp yeah there is no like explanation
for why and and I love things like that because that is so funny and true yes and and to just be cool with that right like okay so that's kind of I think all of you know there there's an element of of [ __ ] what we're doing right now right like there's there's really no way to explain truth right like you can't you
can't put it into words so like every uh who has the interesting quote about how back back to my this is my recent Obsession about you know no words allowed at my hangout uh there I think it's Nim Talib or some some guy on Twitter whatever always talks about how truth truth is impossible to translate
through word and so any social situation the more social the situation in the environment is the more removed from truth and reality that environment exists in and like you know you can kind of totally see that right like you go and sit in the mountains alone in Montana and you're like this is God's
country right like this is real you go to a nightclub in New York and la and you're like this is totally detached from reality and that is the Social Scene right so social socialization is essentially you know a degree away from truth because it's impossible to actually talk about that's why I tell everyone don't go and read
Rick rubin's book on how to create a masterpiece because the book is fake you can't there's no instruction manual you can't there's no repeatable formula here there's no word that's going to do that you kind of have to go and walk down the path and I think that you know I think that that is like kind of poking at a
really again that like fundamental a fundamental reality that you know there is a thing that you can't explain and that probably is what we would try to explain as truth but it's felt right like it's felt and it is objective and that is a real thing that happens uh I I used to uh as you know
I've uh one of my hobbies still to this day much more when I was younger but was like writing worlds writing scenes writing like ideas and and one of the ideas that I had that I was just going back through a journal and and found and I and I liked a lot was this idea that ground state reality is the is society
ground state reality is where like the reality tunnels of most people who are collected in that Society a why more or less right like not completely never but what how cool would it be if we could move up from ground state reality and move and Abstract up to like a very very different reality and like I started putting I
started thinking about things and I immediately started thinking about your moon Pals right yeah because what you did there which I just think is brilliant is nobody had the moon are you kidding me talk to me about the moon P by the way uh unfairly uh you brought me one um and I was going to give it to my grandkids but
uh they were busy so one of my teammates was was here um and he's got a little kids and I like hey hey do me a favor cuz I knew that my grandkids had them already yeah you gave to Patrick I I I get the feedback was what the [ __ ] yeah he and I didn't tell him anything I just said hey give
this to your kids and then text me their reaction yeah and he's like he's used to me asking do really bizarre things and he's like okay and so he texted me this morning he's like the first instinct was to hug it and he goes I've never seen them do that with any other stuffed toy yeah and he goes but then after I read
them the story that goes with it like there was this huge transformation instantly yes that that the moon pal became the toy and again that is like again you just described the thing I had everyone tell me to start with either the toy or the book and I said no the magic is you mix
both of those together and I think I think what uh I think this is you know kind of take it to the the the the the tech startup bro chat is I think this is kind of again what we're seeing and what we can kind of expect with uh where technology might go right like like reality is this thing that you have a a
kind of a feedback a reaction happens right and you know for the last thousands of years that reaction has happened in a physical state and the last 20 years now we have this weird experiment where in my opinion we have gone way way way too far down this experiment of what is the digital reality what respon what what
reaction happens when I when I have this thing in the digital world and I think you know that is again like where I am really interested in is what happens after we go get so high in that digital realm where uh it's not that interesting anymore uh what what happens how does that correct itself and that's you know
again bring it back to Moon Palace that's sort of my bet with this is that you know you have to have you have to have an idea that can be malleable in the right way where the world is going and I think the world is going into a little bit of this sort of Amalgamated mix and you know to just exist in
digital is not going to be very interesting um to just exist in physical is not going to be very interesting it is going to be the the masters of this next 20 30 years is who can you know mix all of these things together in a really interesting way right and you know the book is physical right now it comes with
physical toy but you know again a movie a show a YouTube a a game all of these things right like I wanted both of those things to exist together at once I wanted the imagination to exist at the same time as the kid experiencing the hug because that is a different mixture not a lot of people
have that not a lot of people are doing that right like everyone has a kids's YouTube channel that has you know 20 million subscribers there's hundreds of thousands of those and then you know you have the toys on the other end who can mix them totally different skill it's actually almost you know my bet is that
it might not really be possible to do this effectiv with uh old ideas I think this might be a brand new paradigm that presents a chessboard of you know again like not a binary Checkers right like we're kind of moving into a 4D Chess World where you know you have to be thinking about the digital the physical the you know
the I I would I would call it four I would call it four quadrants right like there like four of these main quadrants that are moving together where you kind of have to get all of them together at the same time and you know I think you can see this my bet my contrarian bet or take on uh where a lot of this stuff is
happening in consumer is that like you know to bring it back to the Moon Pals and what I'm working on like you know I was talking about this for a very long time and everyone was like that's not how the world works that's not how business is created and your team and this and that I was like guys this is
like so obvious and then the Barbie movie comes out and you know biggest box office it's getting up there to be the biggest box office ever I think it's like you know it's like the top five I think at this point uh around a toy um now it's like you know I have a bunch of people calling me back being like hey
remember you were raising that money for that movie like okay like I get it now now I get why you're making a movie for a toy it's like okay yeah like is totally where the world is going now I think it's really interesting to to see what's going to happen um with the Barbie toy sales right and so this is
what you're going to start seeing in consumer is um my bet is that the ideas that are created taking into account this new paradigm that we're moving into to where you're going to be using you know AI physical experience Games movies YouTube all at the same time you're gonna have to make things that are
malleable to that and if you can get just two you're really lucky if you can get three or four you're going to be pretty powerful and if you can get a thing that moves around anything you're going to be really really really powerful um I think Barbie's gonna get a few right I I actually don't know if
it's going to really translate to toy sales because I think they made the movie for a different audience that I don't know is really going to spend two or three thousand do on their kids on you know the idea of a of a perfect objective Beauty uh doll I don't know if the audience that went to saw the movie
is gonna actually go and purchase that Barbie for the next five years but what I'm poking at is that we're we're playing a new game on a new chess board in consumer right now and uh Barbie just showed what's possible if you go and you do a strategy around two pillars I think Kanye showed what's possible if you do a
strategy around like four pillars and I think you know I think this next wave of consumer is going to be who can paint with the big enough brush that can get five or six of those pillars at the same time and I think that is sort of you know if I'm thinking of you know creators and artists and Warriors and
wizards that are coming together and existing on this archetype which by the way you know I think we're kind of moving to a new world where there's a lot less room in the middle and you are either going to be one of these you know unbelievable once in a generation creators or you are not and that's going
to be really tough for a lot of people to Grapple with there's a lot of people that are able to get you know five to 10 million Tik Tok followers and then you know have a uh Meetup in Washington Square Park and absolutely no one shows up right and so I think you know I think you know and then you have Taylor Swift
that just put on an unprecedented experience in the consumer landscape that they're calling basically this like you know unreplicable never been never before happen uh or um and you know I think that's it's going to be more than a tour look look at look at the windowing that she just did right
she this is this is really interesting she does this anomalous tour shatters records you can't not hear about this if you exist on Planet Earth essentially uh and you know she went to the studios to release the the live docu the live video performance of this and all the studios wanted to wait and she being the
genius that she is says no you don't have the window right this is a different thing that is similar that's about 20% to the right that needs to come out now she went around and made a deal with the theaters herself and put the theater put the put the movie out in theaters essentially at the same time
it's winding down now she's catching this whole another wave what I'm saying is that we are moving into a new a new a new game of how to Shepherd the consumer's attention into an experience that is interesting to them because these single pillar approaches are not interesting anymore and I think you know
this is a a really interesting place to watch uh where the world is headed through the lens of what are people actually excited about paying attention to spending money on there's not a lot of things out there that you can describe that are getting that a reaction that truthful objective
reaction from a consumer um and the ones that are you can start to see the elements of this artist is a warrior that is taking a a kind of unique path that has never really been carved out before and I think that's kind of what you're experienc in with a lot of these you know weird moments in consumer right
now it's it's happening across a few different pillars mixed at the same time yeah and uh when you were here and we were talking about it uh my thesis is very similar to yours all you have to do is look at the various verticals that osano Adventures has and uh you you got it right away um a lot of people would
ask me like what the [ __ ] are you doing man you're making you're making movies you're doing media like you you never like why are you doing all that and because we have very similar uh hypotheses around where things are going yeah and and one one of the things that I said you will recall when the first
thing you said was like hey what did you think about Barbie and I just went [ __ ] because nobody got it I know you got it yeah we were we were almost we were almost novel for a second right but I think you're absolutely right about the idea of it it demonstrates the concept and opens it up in people's minds right so that's a good
thing I think you're probably right also about it was aimed at the wrong audience yeah and so I I think your thesis is probably correct whereas Moon Pals and the idea for a movie and stories and all of the things that can come from that uh is really an exercise and another thing that we share and that is
everything especially it's not going to be just consumer I also think we're going from a world where uh consumption gets replaced by the people like those people in the Tails by creation right so the the ability to do that is hard and we talked about like the collapse of the classic bell curve it was really easy
when like you aimed everything at the 68% in the middle of that bell curve you know that I Love Lucy 69 million viewers every night and I think one of the things or every time I was on best best closest example Game of Thrones like 18 million people and and I think one of the things that we're calling the great
ruffle and that's really freaking people out is this idea that like that that Central Authority so to speak right like in the world I was born into in 1960 there were three networks there were two newspapers that mattered and that was [ __ ] it right and so you had this kind of cohesive belief of society in general
and what freaking people out is that is gone that is fragmented all the gold is in the tals I I agree age but I don't think I don't think that you know again I think that these I don't think we're going to live in a completely different world right like I think our world gets uh organized
around the the the truth that is in our soul and I don't think that human nature really changes much and you know I think again like really interesting like you know we could talk about where I goes really interesting is that all of the really good um movies about AI they all end with the AI actually leaving
her it's actually like so uninteresting for at a certain point for the human to interact with the AI and the AI to care about the human that you know Samantha just leaves and goes in parties with the the Thousand you know other AIS in a different dimension so I think you know for better
for worse we are stuck in our soul and in our body and that soul and body Demands a certain amount uh of of things and experiences and feelings and so you know I don't I I think we're going we're going through this weird reshuffle I like that word that you're talking about it is a reshuffle but I think that the the cards
are still going to fall around human nature right and so you know I think you're still going to have gigantic gigantic you know Brands and and and consumer experiences and you're going to have these things it's not all just gonna be like coming from Facebook right like no like there's still G to be a
crazy crazy demand and scale that you can get to just the mechanics of how you get there is going to be a little bit different um I still think you know Venture you know venture capital is funny like it Venture Capital did not you know everyone thought that we we're going to make more entrepreneurs that we're going to make
more companies that are more lifechanging the amount of successful companies Venture Capital did not change that outcome it just got the same outcome in a little bit of a different way and I think you know again like we're still gonna have a only a few artists and creators and entertainers
that are worth anyone's attention and I actually am way more optimistic about where this world is headed because I think you know it's going to be for scarier to to for on a scarier lens for a lot of the you know mid players is that it's G to be very very binary you either have it or you don't and you know
I I i' I've spent most of my life thinking about music and what happens in music and music as a medium and that is where I kind of you know started this whole that was the the medium I was operating in and you know now you you see it very very clearly where you don't get to decide anymore if you want to be a famous
musician um you know you you kind of did that with you know a few of the a few of the 90s and the 2000s with like N Sync and whatnot these like manufactured pop acts that were like piped through and that exists for a very small period of time and now we're at this PO moment where you know again like rich men from
Richmond right like that kid just sat in front of a a wrote an incredible song sat in front of a camera and played in the woods and oh he's number one he has it the market is so efficient and moves through this you know lit like literal liquid medium that it no longer can be gamed by these inefficiencies and the
market just chooses you don't get to decide if you want to be a famous musician anymore the market chooses you and if you have that magic you will be chosen um and if you don't there's almost no there's almost nothing that you can do to game the system anymore to get it um and I think you know again I
think there's there's really interesting trade-offs that happen there and I think again you know the the it kind of shifts where it's a lot more of a multi-disciplinary uh uh uh focus and and and action which is why you know for the last you know basically my entire life everyone said I've had uh you know
bouncing around with this identity crisis and whatnot I from day one have said I'm doing the same thing I am flexing the same muscles it's just the medium that it moves through is only because that's the only interesting battlefield but now we're getting to a place where there's going to be like a
singular Battlefield that takes this amalgamation of different types of muscle and mediums and you know again like I think that do I'm just really really excited about that I think you're going to have you're going to have multi- multi multibillion dollar outcomes around you know a single person
the teams are going to look very very different the value capture is going to look very very different the Enterprise Value is going to be very very different watch how many people start coming for the $300 billion Behemoth that Disney is they can't make money right now why because they are playing with pipes that
are basically irrelevant and those pipes gave them such a privilege that they now are making such stupid decisions that are so away from that core objective reality human soul that they are going to get punished I tweeted about this today I was like I watched Elemental the other night unwatchable it's just so not true like
and my my critique was the whole movie could have been a billion times better if they just made the male character the flame and the female character the water which you know for whatever reason plays into this old traditional you know frowned upon idea of human nature never changing which I think is probably a
little bit more real and the divine feminine Falls way more into the the realm of water with the you know Divine masculine falling way more into the flame and you know they switch that up so your brain is having this weird uncanny valley that they used to be able to get away with because they own this
top- down machine now we are having a whole new you know competitive playing field of emerge of who can actually make something that is more true than that and I think that's the the the pressure that these you know old companies are feeling where they're you know they're getting challenged by a single person
sitting in their room that's just saying things that are a little bit more true and a little bit more interesting um and I think you're going to be able to capture value that way in a very short time like master class right there about the way I see the world unfolding yeah I I I I personally think this is I am just
so incredibly lucky and grateful to be alive at this time yeah because like things like this just don't happen often yeah and and and what you said it's why you see the reaction the violent reactions of the old Gatekeepers yeah like what the [ __ ] you mean I can't just run it through these old pipes no you
can't they don't can that's done and and you're you're absolutely right about the Market's reaction is going to be Swift and brutal because no matter what you do no matter how many Talking Heads you try to put around something if you you do something that does not resonate with human OS you're not going to get away with it
anymore an interesting little thing that you talked about uh how you think the longtail that you know creation is actually going to exist on this long tail I actually don't you know for for interesting conversation I actually don't think that that's true I think you saw this with music I
think you saw this with fashion like I remember when on demand you know basically now exists where you essentially can make any t-shirt that you want in five seconds and you could have it at your door tomorrow that's essentially as good as this 3D printing idea that's going to be on everyone's desk you know that
everyone talks about everyone's going to manufacture and make their own thing not really right like every like you know Bernardo Al is now the richest man in the world if you were to tell someone about 10 years ago that brand how many pieces did people write about the billion dollar brand is is over brand is fake
efficiency this and that you can measure it this way and look at I have access to the factory guess what that's not why someone's buying something they're buying it because it has this as unexplainable magic and I actually think that power law is going to get really really intense we like you know you know
Laurel Piana is going to be way way worth way way way more money in the future because it has a mix of these ingredients that you can't fake or buy um and that's going to be way way way more valuable right and you saw this with music where like if you were to take a bet in music in the last 20 years
of did you want to go and build this platform you know that discovers the upand cominging artists that now can create anyone can create a Grammy type of arti uh album in their living room for basically no money do you want to make a platform that makes you know that you know that captures all of those
artists you know like uh all this like nft or or nft song stuff it's like it's not really that interesting because it's not that it's not that you can't speculate on that asset class because it's so binary now everyone is dancing to Drake in Bushwick at one Oak at these place at the same time or they
art and so you know if you were to make a bet on if you were a music man what what would you rather have the technology that enables the 100 thousands creators uh I guess it's not the technology would you rather own the creators that are now able to create all of this stuff uh or would you rather own
you know uh the the Taylor Swift Masters I would totally rather own the Taylor Swift Masters because those are going to be so much more valuable in the future because now it is unbelievably clear that there is not a lot of humans like Taylor Swift and not value value is essentially scarcity and that
scarcity now is unbelievably apparent and it becomes way more interesting and so going to a tailor Swift show is actually probably the only show that's interesting to me because I don't really I know that I'm gonna get this once in a-lifetime moment where I don't really have to take all these other you know
bets and money on these other things that aren't really even that good that the longtale had been has been enabled by so I actually think it's going to become way more extreme where this idea of democratization uh I exists in a in a sense but that democratization actually just leads to this you know unveiling of
the emperor with no close where there's actually you know only one star in the room um and so yeah I I think uh I think the do not that I think what we're going to start seeing across these larger gigantic consumer companies and how you're going to be able to compete with them um is going to be fairly rep fairly
it's going to rhyme with what happened to the music industry what just happened to D Toc what just happened to Media companies it's going to rhyme with those things and it's going to be all mixed together and yeah I think you're right like there's never I'm so pumped I'm pumped I didn't take your Capital I'm
pumped I don't have 400 employees I'm pumped that I can basically do whatever I want whenever I want and spin up any idea in a very very quick way with a very very lean and cheap team um because and you know you asked in the very beginning of the interview like how did you do this what how did
you create these four companies that you know have these you know hits on their hands and and the answer to that is that I didn't really do anything that special I just I just was able to identify through being essentially unbelievably broke the only piece the business that really mattered and I really didn't pay
attention to much else other than that um and I built you know a a value prized team or a value captured team around that that mix of value which you know ended up in my opinion being a better more fruitful bet than you know try to capture the value in the in this other way that was you know Venture Capital uh
you know I would rather be in my position than be in in Casper's position essentially is is the point yeah and and what's funny about that is that uh just looking at our my thesis because I agree with everything you've just said but from a slightly different angle so I think when I talk about the long Tales I
talk about like one of my teammates joke you want to be the eye of saon uh keeping an eye on what's going on in these Tales because I think that when you as you point out when when you can record a song and go to number one that's very interesting to me and so I think that the idea abundance will
happen mostly in the tales now that does not mean that those ideas are going to all go viral and become super big like you mentioned right but but they are actionable in a way that simply wasn't possible like even 10 years ago yeah right it it's like new game has emerged brand new game Odd West let's go and and
and so like we think in as part of our thesis that curation and and and people always like look at me as scan answer what I say this curation and good taste are going to be incredibly valuable things to be good at hey I will push back a little bit I don't think curation is as valuable as
you think and I think taste is a thousand times more valuable than you think um and taste has elements of curation but I don't again like if you look at if you look at the past the what would you rather be Drake who in my opinion is one of the best curators of our time or pitchfork who was a pure curator Drake took a
piece of that Talent of curation and put it into a different vehicle that was way positioned to move through the the lenses and the pipes of this new emerging World way way way better than something like pitch for did and so you know if you look at what Drake does he again he watches those
he's the eye of the what uh what did you say song that's from Lord of the Rings Lord the ranks how I to what am I doing come on man we might even have to take that out because World building is one of your big talents I KN in my mind I I just you know what you know what I in my mind I kept on saying paler how
strong is like I just kept on was like oh it's the the Eye Of palach The B was like no that's how Technologies ruined my brain uh Drake Drake is a curator and that form of curation in that way is I agree it's a piece it's a it's a it's a brussel in the in the painbrush but it's not valuable on its own
anymore um and so yeah like you know how many people well you know like Drake watching these different hits emerge shating them into his overarching brand add to get a little Drake flavor and that curation being a part of his creation process is a lot more interesting to me than just being a Creator or or a curator right and the
curators have all died there really is no music curation anymore what is a what's a music curator now I really can't think of one to the best music curators are someone like a drake who finds this weird emerging beat in you know Nigeria and curates that and puts his his uh his lyrics on top of it and
now I'm experiencing this Fun curation mix of This Global taste maker that is Drake that's speaking in a language that's actually moving through the Way That We Now consume media so I agree with you that curation and taste are going to be valuable I don't think they're valuable on their own I think
they're they're a thousand times more valuable mix together and we are in total agreement yeah maybe I maybe I didn't express it the the right way but like you're absolutely right and you have to also it gets back to our conversation about opening your aperture right like I used to when when you still bought CDs I used
to like go to a tower record and literally buy 50 randomly yeah and and like why did I do that because thought I like I have no idea what what's going on so I would go to the different sections like I was I I I I was listening to techno and it was called European new and and like I loved it and and so
the idea that you open yourself up to it like you mentioned with Drake right and the Caribbean baits or the African beats or and then and then adding yeah so we're totally in agreement on that all right we are closing in on when my school marish nannies will tell me that I have to stop uh we haven't even
like even gotten the half of the really cool stuff I don't really even know what I just said so hopefully some of this would which is good no it was very good they actually there there is a cut it printed when you gave a master class on where everything is going and maybe I'm saying that uh because I have motivated
reasoning because I agree with you um but uh I think that the idea of being able to build out all of those pillars I could not agree more yeah and and it this whole idea you know in advertising right advertising started as information right we call them soap operas because soap companies advertised on them right and
and and so if you look at like ads from the beginning of advertising it's just text it's a huge block of text yeah where there where they feel like we need to demonstrate to all of the people all of the reasons why we're better right and then and then contrast that with when Apple when Steve Jobs was still in
charge released the iPod ads you know those ads everyone knows Those ads because there's they're so iconic with them just dancing with the with the uh with the iPod and and the uh uh ear well not earpods they had the strings but like [ __ ] brilliant and completely completely different getting your idea B
all right my friend this has been super fun um at the end of all of our podcasts we create you the emperor of the world for just a single day not even a single day just a single moment you can't put anyone in prison or re-education camp and you can't kill anyone but we are going to hand you a magic microphone
that you can speak two things into and you are going to incept the entire world's population with the two things that you speak into this microphone everyone who wakes up whenever their tomorrow is is going to think I just had two of the greatest ideas in the world and I'm going to act on both of them
what are you going to incept uh I'm G to get cancelled um yeah I I would probably say I mean I don't know give me give me an example of someone else's answer S no come on let me curate let me curate man John are you kidding me all right I'd say like is it to get I know I'm like being the annoying nerd at the
party but like is it to get is it to get people to do something or like realize something that is entirely up to you I've had both answers okay I would say okay I would actually I would restructure everyone's decision-making framework we have totally been like for lack of a better word maybe this is just
like you know but we have been completely convinced that Independence is the best framework to make every decision about your life uh and it's not only Independence it's essentially Independence and you know right there it's Financial Independence I would say I would magically incept everyone into
completely flipping that on its head and I would basely make all of people's decision framework coming around how they actually can be completely dependent in the best way possible um how how are you going to be the most dependent on someone else and in return be the most Dependable uh which is a totally
different framework for making decisions than I want to be you know a independent you know badass that can go and be a lone wolf that can do whatever he wants which has essentially been the lore and the def the decision-making framework we have all woried for the past you know 100 years um so I would say you know I would
I would I would I would make everyone say you know basically priori prioritize figuring out and make decisions around the idea that being dependent and interconnected with as many people as possible is actually the better framework for making decisions than try to make decisions around Independence um and then number
two oh I have so many that unbelievably [Laughter] offensive number two would be to you know just have a cocaa l that chill out you're gonna die have a Coke go figure out how to be the best family member and spouse and then have a Coke take a walk man Bu The World of Coke like it's not that are those are
really interesting to me um especially the first one I got to think about that a long time so that means that it's a good one because I I when I don't instantly react and I really need time to really think about it that that that interests me quite a bit all right John tell my audience how you can get more
John man more John first you got to buy yourself and everyone you know of moon palal so Moon pals.com movies coming we're doing it the last thing I do we're doing it uh second at John hfo at Twitter very cool and uh spoiler alert we're gonna have you write some books for our new book division over at
osv uh I'm gonna tease it I'm not going to give away the ideas because we want people to wait for that but you like you literally came up with two of the best ideas that I heard and and I instantly invited you to our gathering next month which is going to be a BL I gotta tell you you know you I I had like one of
those can't sleep fever dreams last night I came up with the best self-publishing book strategy ever oh I can hardly wait to see it Matt there's I have like 10 titles it'll Crush I love it I love it this is going to be a lot of fun all right thank you my friend I will see you soon all right man thank you so much