that was a really really it's a really painful time I'm sorry please welcome J pink Smith you want out of the pain only way out is death Chris comes to the end of the stage and he looks at me deeply sincerely and he says I also have a letter from Will before we jump into this episode I'd like to invite you to join this community to hear more interviews that will help you become happier healthier and more healed all I want you to do is
click on the Subscribe button I love your support it's incredible to see all your comments and we're just getting started I can't wait to go on this journey with you thank you so much for subscribing it means the world to me the
bestselling author and host the number one Health and this podcast on purpose with J shett now Jay before we start go on can I tell a story you can okay I got I have to let your audience know how this book even became okay they have to know Jay
okay all right so I visit you I'm here visiting because Swami's here R now swam is here and you had often said Jada you should write a book I'm like Jay I don't want to so this day once again you're like Jada you should write a book and
I'm like Jay I don't want to write a book you're like well you should write a book Jay I don't want to write a book we're going back and forth like siblings R comes into the kitchen because Rody's making a beautiful lunch for us to eat
he comes he sits down he goes Jay if Jada doesn't want to write a book she doesn't have to write a book and you go well I think she should write a book and I was like oh did he just talk back to but I'm going to tell you something
that was a really a moment for me right because I said I cuz I'd been pushing back for a long time and you talking to me about it and that moment I was like okay I need you to take that home and I need you to think about it because Jay's
your brother there's something here that you might not be seeing and it was really that moment that put me on pause and a couple of days later I was in meditation and it came to me and I said oh my goodness my journey from unlovable to lovable is a worthy story to tell and I called you and I said Jay I got it thank you but you were so persistent about it right and I just want to thank you because honestly and I'm not you know if
it hadn't been for that moment that book wouldn't be here right now right and you really were on my neck about it for a long time so I just want to say thank you because you also made it clear you were like you'll you made it clear to me I
would get a lot out of it and I have so I just want to say thank you it's been such a deep healing process for me in ways that I could have never imagined you know and what you said before you know we even started in the introduction
you know just that hope of it's so hard to find authentic happiness in this world even through my journey my 52 years and just trying to figure out how to be authentically happy has been such an excruciating process and one of the
purposes of this book is like if I can help in any small amount of way you know in any way possible to help help somebody have an easier or just leave like little breadcrumbs kind of like not a blueprint cuz everybody's process is different but
just little breadcrumbs of how to find that for yourself because it has been really difficult for me so thank you thank you thank you well thank you for sharing that with me and I think I blocked that memory out because I don't I don't think I've ever tried to stand up against rather a from te you know my teacher before I think that would uh so i' I've pretended that it yeah IED It For Me growing up reading autobiographies is what changed my life
and I think one of the things that I feel we struggle with today is that people's narratives are being told from so many different angles apart from their own and when I grew up and I was reading the words of Martin Luther King or I was reading Malcolm X I found there to be so much power in reading the words directly from an individual and so even if that wasn't their autobiography if it was their work their words you felt so intimately connected
with that person and I feel that when people move on and we don't have them on the planet anymore it's almost like you lose this Treasure House of experience and memories and also think that if someone's listening or watching right
now and you're thinking well Jay I would never write a book I'm not a public figure I'm not a celebrity I'm not a musician or an actor I don't have a career path that means I should be an author I still think that telling your
story whether it's to your family your kids your is so important I could not not agree with you more I think it's actually imperative that looking at your life life on the page like you forget experiences you know you forget
like oh my goodness I did that oh I went through that oh my god really I came through that it's like it's almost like an homage to yourself honestly to really be able to look at your life and go wow what a life I think everybody should
take some time even if it's just one like because even with Worthy I took one line which was unlovable to lovable so anything in regards to my life that was on that Arc I talked about but there's so much more so many other parts of my life
right so even if somebody says you know what I just want to you know write down um the happiest moments of my childhood and I want to just look at that on paper right but whatever Journey somebody decides to pick from from their life um
and to examine thoroughly on the page I would definitely suggest that because it is really powerful and it's so healing and it will teach you so much about yourself absolutely I couldn't agree more I could agree more let's let's dive
in okay because that journey of being unlovable to lovable as you're tracing there I think is a journey that we all have to walk in our own ways and I think when you know I I met you I think five years ago now we've just spent a lot of
time together in The Last 5 Years hence we have a deep connection but when I first met you I was looking at you from the outside and over the last five years I've got to know you through an inner journey and and you know through family as well and through spending time with your family and what I found was that we often lose context when you view someone's life from the outside and when you get closer the greatest thing you get is context
and so I wanted to start off and this book does that so well but I want to start off of what does it feel like growing up with a teenage mom who has an addiction like I think that that is so formative in so many ways and it's so
easy to forget that that's where you started because of your career growing up with my mother a teenage my it's was like we grew up together it's almost like having a big sister I mean even to this day you know it's like it's like I I get to have two
roles in my mom like sometimes she's still my big sister and then sometimes she really comes in like as your as my mother you know what I mean as you saw in the book it's like I had all this Freedom running crazy in the streets and
what have you but there was such pivotal moments where Adrian came to the rescue as my mother right and she still does that to this day but it was you know I did a lot of having to raise myself self and there are parts of that it's pros
and cons to that there's a lot of Pros it's like that is the part that made it possible for me to come to La at the age of 18 on my own and figure this Hollywood game out right just with no fear completely Fearless but then also
kind of growing up with certain ideas of what I thought um love was or certain survival mechanisms that you know as I got old didn't quite serve me but I think that we all have that no matter what our family background is you know what I'm
saying we all kind of pick up things that along the way that um don't serve us for the entirety of our journey I tell you I I learned a lot having a young mom at at an early age I really do think that even with our trials and our
challenges that the great Supreme gave me the mom I was supposed to have and the most perfect mother in The Journey that I was supposed to have to prepare me for other parts of my journey but you know it was challenging and beautiful at
the same time yeah and I love gamy so I just want to put that yeah yeah we all love gamy we all love gamy Yeah and and but it's really interesting there's one line in your book that really kind of cemented that feeling of unlovable to me from that time and you said there was a time when you felt like you were not being a priority to the two people who gave you life like hard that really hit me because I was like yeah that was
probably really difficult and like you had two parents who drugs were their focus in the lifestyle that came with it you know I also talk about in the book when my father told me at seven years old I can't be your father and it's just
like wow okay what do I do with this what does a seven-year-old do with that you you just kind of internalize it and you kind of go okay um what's wrong with me what is it about me that I'm not enough for these two people to look at
me as a priority because I see everybody else's parents and it looks like their kids are their priority so what's wrong with me so you kind of I internalized this idea of not being enough not being lovable and it's it's strange cuz it's
not that that I didn't feel like like my mother didn't love me it's just that am I lovable enough to be the priority am I lovable enough to for you to show up for me as the mom that I see other moms be you know so I
definitely internalize that and I think that I took that into the world of like I'm just going to prove constantly having to prove myself then I I'm I'm lovable I'm lovable enough I'm lovable enough and I think that was some of the
messaging that I took from my childhood into into my adulthood and I appreciate you going back to that seven-year-old self because in hindsight and now looking back you can make sense of it and you can connect the dots but it's
like when you're actually in that position it's very natural as you said to just internalize it and I think that what's really interesting with your journey is we all have to develop the emotional skills our parents didn't have
yeah and the earlier we do that the easier and simpler life becomes but often most of our energy goes in thinking well I wish they had them or they should have had them and when I'm listening to you what I'm hearing is that it's not even the belief
that they don't love me or love me enough it's the belief that somewhere inside I am not lovable yes yes right it's it's it's so inside it's not even about them absolutely it's like I'm not valuable I'm not yeah it's because
that's your mirror at first right but it it and it's so complicated and nuanced do I believe my father loved me of course in the way that he could I think that he felt the most loving thing he could do was tell me I can't be your
father and I respected that even at seven because I was like at least somebody's telling me the truth I've always respected hardcore truths that is one thing about me I respect hardcore truths doesn't mean I always like them
but I freaking respect them at seven like that lesson started that's a gangster hardcore truth to tell a child but then at the same time that seed within me that is like well are all men like that like if my dad doesn't love me
how is any man going to love me I didn't realize that at seven MH that's when I started getting into like 16 17 when I start you know having those kind of intimate relationships with men and realizing oh wow I'm really this area is
this area is quite unhealthy you know what I mean of just like how I viewed myself I was either giving too much or not enough I'm either hot or super cold you know emotionally yeah yeah and so trying to regulate and understand
because you know my understanding is that a a young girl's first relationship and understanding of Love is with her father I didn't have that at all so I'm still learning yeah yeah I'm still really immature in that area of just emotional development around intimacy with masculinity I know that now whereas before I didn't know that yeah you know aware I'm not aware like this is just what it is and then growing up in an environment with so much
violence and so much aggression and oh man it was like what do you do with all that and trying to just like unpack all of it to just figure out like oh life is about love it's not about power and ego and winning and losing
I mean it's taken me I'm 52 just now understanding that it's been a wild ride but you know what every day I thank the great Supreme for for the journey and just for giving me the Awakenings the little Awakenings that I get about love and just my
willingness to have it you know really wanting to understand what love is all about but I do have to give my grandmother a lot of credit I was going to talk about yeah Maran really I had all these different seeds that were
planted in me and Maran seed that that goes to show you how the Legacy of Love Will overpower everything it is her it is the legacy of love that my grandmother instilled in me and also the desire to search she always had me understand that the world is full of
treasures get out there and find them m she instilled that in me at a very young age and she also instilled in me that I was special but I was her first grandchild you know I was her first grandchild there you go makeing excuses
right I'm just saying you know I her first grandchild and so she she really made me think that I could be and do anything being the child of two addicts on one side and then my grandmother instilling in me like no I'm telling you
you got something kid you know what I mean and so just being able to hold on to those seeds that she put within me and then of course my mother encouraging me along the way too my mother saw some really beautiful stuff in me as well and she's been one of my biggest cheerleaders and champions throughout my life absolutely if your if your grandmother saw you today oh what would she say my goodness my grandmother would be so proud of me
through it all like with the good and the challenges she had a very challenging life extremely and what she was able to make out of her life as a immigrant you know child of two immigrants from Jamaica um she became pregnant at 13 to
this day we don't know how that happened we do believe that that it was a mistake and it wasn't that she was raped or molested or t you know I never got that from her I always got that it was her lack of knowledge about sex that created that
circumstance and um she had that baby on her own she was pretty much abandoned and she was taken in by a family through a foster a white family who she worked for as a maid and um got herself to Howard University wow and was able to go to India as an ambassador yeah she went to India and came back and my grandfather who was studying to be a doctor asked her to get married so I think she would be and is very proud of me with it all I love that
that's that's special to feel that that if someone to look back so Jay at the start of this book you talk about how you were and this broke my heart you were talking about how you were planning taking your life but then how it could
look like an accident yeah that was 2011 that was my 40th birthday my 40th year actually when I was reading that I was just thinking to myself I was like what were you hoping that would achieve like what what were you hoping that would
solve talk us through that yeah it's funny because when you're in those States you're not clear it's not like it's is going to make rational sense right you want out of the pain and you cannot imagine your only way out is death you think in your mind you've tried everything and you're like it's all I got I can't do this I can't keep doing this and so that's your only solution and I tell people all the time you know we've had a lot of um different
Spotlight of people of taking their life people call I cannot believe it and I'm like you just never know what somebody's going through and there are certain people that have a high tolerance for being able to put on a good face in
order to not burden people MH but what is really interesting is that when you have a plan sometimes that gives you enough energy to just keep going cuz you're like okay I got a good plan so if this gets really bad I know where to go M and
you're like okay I'm just going to keep trying to figure this out I'm keep trying to figure this out but I got this plan and it's really tough because you don't want to for personalities like myself you don't want to burden anybody
and you're like look if I can't figure out how to get out of this nobody else is going to be able to figure this out either that was a really really a really painful time I'm sorry no don't be sorry j I'm really grateful that I am found a way
out but I think about people who don't find it and I wish I wish there was like one I could say one piece of advice you know like what would you tell somebody in a situation like that and all I can ever say is please just keep
going keep trying keep walking trust because if you trust and I know how difficult it is you know for people who are in it like that's easy for you to say but if you keep trusting the universe will open up door and I know how hard it is to just
wake up and keep it going cuz for me it was hard just waking up in the morning if I could get to 4:00 I was like okay you made it another day being able to have enough strength to just get up get out of bed put clothes on get through your day and let no one know that you're struggling it is so hard I feel really blessed you know when plant medicine came my way it saved my life and I know that it's still a lot of whatever around Plant medicine but
I'm going to tell you like this and I'm not saying that that's for everybody because my way out was a rugged four nights and it was just my thoughts thoughts about myself it was just my self-hatred the level of self-hatred
you have that I have had to want to take my own life and I had to walk four nights to clear up look at be with that level of self-hatred I was like you want to talk about walking through the valley of the shadow of death but I'm really
grateful for that experience because after that one night I never thought about suicide again yeah after the ceremony after the ceremony and it was really my last resort I was like okay this has been brought my way I'm going to try this and
it worked praise God thank you that's a really painful place for me still and just thinking about about how many people are sitting in that place it really breaks my heart trusting God that's those moments where I just
have to just be like God these are your children you will take care and I pray that God you will provide the door you have provided for me thank you for being so vulnerable with us I want to give you a big hug can I come give you a big hug you can give me a hug hug oh I love you thank you you've been such a wonderful friend you really have you've been by my side through some really tough stuff only for more time only for more challenges to come
along the way I'm so i' never you know I wouldn't have had the fortune of getting to meet you and I'm really glad that you you know were so vulnerable with us just now because I I really feel like the there's more people than we think that
have those thoughts trust and believe it trust and believe it there's people there's people that you see every day that you would never believe it's so funny to to have that level of strength and that level of vulnerability and just
you know Despair and at the same time that level of like helplessness that could drive you to do something like that but a lot of times we just don't know how to communicate it I didn't know how and no one knew like the will kids this is
already they knew I was very unhappy yeah that wasn't a secret and people didn't understand why either so let's talk about that for a minute the shame that comes with those feelings and specifically like everybody feels that
level of shame I don't care what station of life you're existing in and I would say I'm unhappy and people would look at me like I'm crazy what are you unhappy about and so then I just went in even more cuz I was like they're right look
what you've accomplished you've got this great family you've got a great life yeah you got the house you got the house the car this and that what's your problem so then that's a hot cup of Shame so you just I just shut down
that's such a great note to put out there because I think so many times we we think like that about maybe our friends it's like you have you so much like that language can be so yeah and I would suggest anybody don't say
that yeah don't say that to somebody who's saying I'm having a tough time I'm struggling you have this you have that no what's going on tell me help me understand yeah as ridiculous as it may sound to you right to that person that
thought has been repeated so many times abolutely become their reality even if it seems ridiculous to you like yeah it can be so foreign I get it yeah but that is somebody trying to step out and talk so we have to have we have to be receptive is and not to look at it you know it and that is like that's tricky too because really being able to meet somebody where they are versus trying to meet somebody where you're at and that in itself is a skill
set just being able to go okay hold it what am I missing here let me just take a minute let me blend with you let me join you I didn't have that and it's nobody's fault you know I'm hoping that anyone who thinks anyone in their life
is struggling will share what you just shared with us with them to start a conversation to open up that dialogue because I think you just said it now and it brought a thought to my mind that real love or real compassion is when you
help someone get to the next step in their Journey yeah not in your journey yeah and that means being able to be present with them wherever they are even if it seems like a foreign alien land to you I really feel like if anyone has
anyone in their life who's struggling please send that to them please share that with them because that they need to hear it from someone else who's been there sometimes also because if you've not been there you don't you may not know how to say
and and I think that's the other thing right the other side is one side is we say oh you should be happy you're fine the other side is we try and fix it yeah you can't right yeah you can't you can't solve it there is per there is no right you can't solve it the best that we can do is like you can try to meet them where they are and let's get help we can do it together and hold hands and and get them to someone professional I will say it's really
healing when someone can join you it's also having that boundary of understanding too that you can only do but so much as well mhm a person has to really want help mhm and that's why I would tell the person that might be
struggling to just stay open to try everything you know what I mean like I tried every until I found the thing yeah and just keep walking until you find the thing that obviously happens a lot later on even though you start the book with
that but there was a time when you believe believed that Hollywood and having it all would do it would do it even before you get to this point and so and also what I find fascinating is you grew up where like drug dealing was
normal you were in that scene you were meeting people everyone around you was in that scene you weren't as from what I gathered from the book and the time we've spent together there weren't a lot of people who were breaking that mold
yeah no what was it that made you a believe that you could move to LA when you were 18 and break that mold and that you didn't have to fall into the pattern of everyone around you and at the same time secondly what was it that made you
believe that that would solve it that that was what was missing thank goodness along the way I had great mentors like Donald hickin you know at Baltimore School for the Arts that was like Jen you've got more talent in the pinky of
your your little pinky that most people have in their whole bodies you know that he forced me to go you know into that audition for North Carolina School for the Arts and that's what got me out of Baltimore so that I could
just get away from that lifestyle and break that mentality right um and then once I got immersed again into my art I was like wow I really love this and once I click into something like my mind goes you know what I mean and then
poac came to La well he wasn't in La he was in Northern California and Pac kept saying you got to get out here it's popping you know what I mean and now he's like you got to come out here and visit and so I was like all right I'm
going to get out there Pac was another one too that was just like you got it Jada you got it and I'm like all right I'm coming you so I told my mom I was like you got two choices cuz I still wasn't quite sure yet you know I was
like I could go to LA and see if I can do this Hollywood thing or I could become a lawyer and take all my Dramatics to the court right to the courthouse and she said we're going to La wow once I got to La I was like
you're here MH make it happen and part of what made me think that I could do it it wasn't just about talent but was just my persever and just my go I'm a pitbull when it comes to when I want something you know especially in my youth I'm not so much
pit anymore but in my youth you know once I put my mind to something I was like go get it and I really felt like how everybody else feels you know like yo once I make it once I'm rich and famous yeah all my problems are going to be
solved you know what I mean my problems are going to be solved my mom's problems going to be solved you know everybody's problems going to be solved I got this you know what I'm saying and so and that was a trip because that wasn't the case
and I think that that's still prevalent people feel like once you get to a certain level of success you are exempt from The Human Experience you are exempt from The Human Condition and the truth is that is not the case and let me tell
you I had an existential drop in realizing hold it wait a minute hold it like my career is popping I got money I'm hot people are pursuing you I got every dude everywhere wanting to you know what I mean like I can have anybody
I want why am I not happy God now this wasn't this wasn't the plan I couldn't believe it cuz that was the whole idea you make it you pull yourself up by your own bootstraps you make it and life's great and thank goodness at that particular point in time I had Pac that I could go like we could share that together because he was going through the same existential disappointment he thought the same thing that was like the beginning of just like
wait a minute then if it's not this then what is it it's incredible that you had a supportive friend in in Tupac you had this amazing friend who was saying you've got this you're talented and that can really help yeah and at the same
time there's a whole another inner Journey that has to happen with it so that was externally it was empowering it was inspiring it was great to have someone believe in you and we all need that yeah and at the same time it was
like this other reminder of the inner world was not together yeah at all and being completely ignored you know and it would take me years to realize that that oh no it's not just about what's happening on the outside Jada but if your inner world is
not your foundation it's all sand castles you know I had a nervous breakdown then I mov to Baltimore I get a farmhouse there and I'm like okay I'm just going to get out of La I'm making a geographical move I'm like I just got to
get back to my roots you know I got to get back to my roots and then um will comes along and I'm like maybe that's it I need a man you know and then it's like latch on to that it's like okay that's my new Prozac will you know he's G now it's his job to make my life better that doesn't work either so the ego just attached to all these different exterior things until eventually I'm you know I had to crash to really having to look at the shambles
of my inner world and rebuild and rebuild it and I say rebuild it because I feel like when we're born that inner world is intact but I had to really strip it all down Jay to the Bare Bones the bolts and just start inwardly from
the bottom and just build and it's been a wild ride it's been a wild ride of what what that means and what that looks like when it comes to your friendship with Tupac which you speak about so beautifully in the book and it's so
wonderful because we get an insight into him in a way that you don't as just a fan of the music right so as someone who grew up listening to him myself it's like you get a certain perception yeah of someone who's intelligent but then
also has this gangster lifestyle persona Etc but then again when you get context yeah and you get to know about someone through someone who actually knows them right and what I really appreciated which I found fascinating was just how
you had the wisdom at that time to know that someone would be a special friend without being romantic with them yeah talk to us about because I feel like a lot of people struggle yeah he was obviously into you and when you first
met Etc the way you describe it but it's like and and there's even one point where you dare him to and I want you to tell that but but what I find fascinating and what I want to help people with here is like how were you able to create and build a
relationship with someone knowing initially that it was based on some attraction right but actually you knew there was so much more to it how were you able to allow that to unfold because I think so many of us get so scared if
we're not into someone we go okay I'm just going to push away or that person eventually tries to make a move anyway but here it was like this beautiful respect this you both created that yeah we both did we both had the intelligence
you know we were both really young so I think I thank the great Supreme for this too that there was no physical chemistry between us I mean literally it was like and it w i I try to explain this to people it was the same for Pac it was just like when I dared him to kiss me he was I mean it was like ew for us both right and we look it's like how can that be how can you feel so connected to someone of the opposite sex there was just this
beautiful understanding you know when you can just sit with somebody in the room you don't have to say a word mhm and there's just this level of comfort yeah we we just knew each other the the moment Pac saw me and our eyes and I saw
his peanut head across the room at Baltimore School for the Arts it was like I knew him already we just got each other I just understood him in that understanding and he understood me so we could pull each other's coattails but we
could also join each other when I talk about that joining when you can sit with somebody and really feel like they see you they understand you they care about you and they're going to be there by you no matter what that was
Tupac he was going to ride with me no matter what he was so authentic and and it's rare yeah that that level of authenticity and he was so he had wore his heart on his sleeve and there was just this amount of loyalty between us
and I think also the fact that we both struggled with mothers who were addicts and we tried to compensate for one another of not having that peace and we didn't boohoo about it we understood how to fill in the um voids without
getting all hallm Marky about it you know what I mean you know what I mean and so that it was so we just kind of knew how to flow with each other in a way that was very comfortable yeah yeah it's always hard to kind of explain because it was like
it's it's almost like he he was really a kindred that's that's the only way I could really explain it and I feel so lucky and so blessed that I got to know a being like himself in that way cuz he was such a dyamic person but you can feel it cuz his music
is still lasting for Generations now absolutely you know so he he was just a treasure teach us what's the difference between sexual chemistry and energetic connection or authentic connection because I think we often think that to
get close to someone you need that and here it's not just about the fact that there wasn't attraction or it was there's more to it in that I feel like there's a subtle difference in how you were able to accept that there is a authentic connection but it doesn't have to include it does physical chemistry in order to have a deep energetic connection if that makes sense as a I actually think in my experience some of the deepest connections that I've
had with men have not included sex whatsoever right and I think that sex sometimes can Cloud things a lot of a lot of things come in that a lot of people don't understand so you you know whether it's like certain
levels of emotional trauma all these kinds of things energetically the the heart-to-heart spirit space has a level of Purity to it where even if things get difficult like when things would get challenging with pck andai we could get to it
fast and there's just a level of Purity and it's not attached to I want to make things right with you so I can sleep with you that's yeah you agenda it's not that agenda the agendas are pure they're more pure and it it has more space it's like
I love you but you got to live your life MH I love truthful I can be truthful I can be honest I think that with us I could be more of myself because one thing I knew about Pac I never had to worry about you know
when we had big blowups which we did all the time he's coming back I'm never worried about that I never worried about oh my God two no he listen whe it's a year whether it's a year a week three days I had to love all that Pac was he
loved all that I was the good and the bad and he was going to be right there with that and vice versa that was one of the most beautiful aspects of our relationship we didn't have to fake it we didn't have to like pretend to be
other things and we could be honest he could pull my coattails I could pull his coattails I could give him all the praise and love on him all I wanted to and not have to worry about oh oh now we're going to have to have sex you know
like none of that cuz that wasn't happening we just didn't we didn't have that chemistry we just didn't have it yeah I think if Pac had survived Vegas he and will would have ended up being really good friends you know they would have had a lot to
offer one another and funny enough will was the only person when I started dating him Pac never like said anything if I dated anybody else Pac had had something to say he didn't think anybody was good enough which I understand right but when I started dating will he didn't say anything which meant to me in his own way he approved yeah didn't say anything right he didn't say anything which was like okay not a word which made me believe he approved
yeah no I think it's it's so beautiful to reflect on that friendship because I think it's so hope giving to so many people who you know sometimes lose out on those kind of relationships because we don't see where else it can go oh it
go there's so much value there's so much value to that and there's the you know the part in the book where you talk about how you never got to be there when Vegas happened like you weren't there you hadn't talked for a year I think at
the time what you B yeah we had a big blow up what would you have said to him or what would you say to him or what what what did you want him to know or what were you so sure that he already knew and you're thinking to yourself I
just wanted to remind him of this what would that be I would I didn't have to remind him of anything he knew it Pac knew I adored him I have no doubt in my mind that he left this world knowing that not what a great feeling yeah
that's never been the issue for me MH we did that dance a lot sometimes have blowups and we were we're both very stubborn and I'll let people read the book to yeah that blow up and and what led to that but um I think sometimes
what sometimes still hurts is that me feeling feeling like maybe I couldn't do enough once he left mhm like I'm thinking to myself oh my God what would Pac have done like if it had been me in a car in Vegas and got you know he
would have rre Havoc so that ego mhm sometimes comes into play like just feeling so helpless that he was taken in that way and there was nothing I could do to this day that gnaws at me you know for what it's worth I really
believe that the way you write and we by the way everyone who's listening and watching there is so much more to unpack in the book which I highly recommend you read as you're going through it and you'll come to this part but I I really
believe that the way you honor and appreciate and respect your dear friend in the book is really beautiful and special and it's like it's hard to describe as well but it's a really really wonderful lens into a human that is so you know Larger than Life in so many ways and I wanted to also kind of there's been so many misconceptions about our relationship because people are like you know have a difficult time understanding that he and I could
actually be friends but just wanted to give people such just an Insight on you know the beauty of our friendship that I just cherish to this day so very much you know and I wanted to give people a different Outlook just
of who he was and I'll say who he is because he still exists like you know but so I really wanted that to come across yeah yeah well we got to understand him I think through you through the perspective of not a rapper not a icon not a but a a
human and a friend and like what he was like as a friend and I think that that's a very intimate way to to know about someone so I love that I I wanted to talk to you about you you mentioned there you were like will was the only
person that Park didn't Tupac didn't have an issue with yeah that I and I love that and and you know how much I mean you know I've always been open about it and we've talked about it and I I met will through you and it's like I
I've always said that when I met you and the whole family and and when I met him you were everything and more all of you are everything and more right uh and what I mean by that is everything I'd wanted you to be plus so much more right
uh and and he's that too in in so many ways and I think that it's really interesting because when you're talking about in The Book of like I I love the conversation you refer to when you're like your your mom's like you know get
him off the phone like she that's one of her moments being Adrian yes exactly but what I love about it the most is that it is true that from the outside as you set it up looks like a fairy tale and and and it felt like that and what I find
really fascinating about this again and again and again pretty much with everyone is that there is no fairy tale love anywhere on planet Earth on no planet and and you know in our own little way I always talk about this with
me and rad too it's like we'll do an interview together where rad will tell me all the challenges she has with me and she'll be crying and upset and then everyone in the comments will still be like you guys are so cute and I'm like
no no no we we're not trying to say we're cute like this is like real issu like real stuff that you know we've talked about it obviously you spend a ton of time in me and R and so I I think for me what's really interesting is that yes from the
outside when you see two incredible actors performers artists Talent get together you're like wow Powerhouse couple everyone projects their expectations uh you have beautiful adorable kids you know like Jaden's acting and he's he's like the cutest thing in the world and Willow too it's like it's so interesting because we also we like to build up our dreams in people and we like to project our dreams onto people because I think as viewers it
makes us believe that it's possible yeah and we live through people and we Aspire for it not that we Aspire for the success and the fame but that we Aspire for the like well if they can get it right then I can get it right and it's
not it's an innocent absolutely belief that we all have it's not a we all have that inside of us so we have we all have this I know that I had that like you know I was I was searched it the other day and it's a term it's Disney princess
syndrome and I was like I've had Disney princess syndrome like myself like a ton of times and it's so fascinating to me for anyone who doesn't get the reference the point is that every Disney princess is always looking for her prince oh yeah and I would say regardless of gender that's true like I feel that way where I've been looking for my princess or my win or my award or whatever it may be and I wanted you to walk us through like
what were the stages and how would you define the stages as you do in this book your stages of your relationship with will because I feel that that's the part that people get blurry because they're looking at it through their lens but you
both have been so clear about stages of your relationship internally which I actually think is the hardest part and so how would you define the stages of your partnership with will that help people understand like the conversations
that you're having behind the scenes from like being madly in love to you know yeah wo the stages of getting to the most authentic and this difficult so I just want to honor that for a second like it's almost like talking about
relationships and the Romanticism around the idea of relating is sometimes as detrimental as talking about politics and God because it's such a it's such a staple in how people look at marriage and relating culturally right and all of the
Romanticism around it and will and I have been what I would consider kind of the relationship goals MH this romanticized version I had to in my own relationship with will dissolve my Romanticism around what I thought marriage would be should be and honestly we really never had what I would consider the ideal honeymoon stage you know even though you do have the honeymoon stage but our relationships started with with some challenges you
know because he was divorcing and then our life just took off like a rocket ship we just took on this huge life in our early 20s and where his Focus was really about hey I want to be the biggest movie star in the world and I knew that going into our
relationship and I knew that would be sacrifices with that and then along the way and I talk about this in the book just having those different perspectives mhm and really trying to figure out how to reconcile those different
perspectives and also deal with a lot of challenges so I think one of the things that I address in the book in regards to you know people thinking that we've had an open marriage and we haven't had an open marriage I talk about starting off
pretty much early on in our marriage of having the need for transparency and that is a big difference between hey you can do whatever you want you know versus is like hey here we are very young people in this place called Hollywood that has
a lot of Temptation let's have a partnership around this let's be very realistic of what what this life is if we're talking about we're going to be together forever and ever and ever that means there's going to be some
temptations that come up let's be in Partnership and let's talk about that I didn't go into my marriage like I am going to be my husband is never ever ever going to look at anybody else you know what I mean like I I just I am just a realist
in a lot of ways MH I know what it's been like for me right when I first came to Hollywood and I could go into the clubs and have anybody just the the level of just like that just the the like you know what I mean it's just like you just yeah
intoxicating it's so intoxicating that's one now what I do believe that what people don't know that I talk about in the book a lot is that there been several breakups between will and I will talks about it my 40th
birthday which was a big breakup for us we were actually looking towards separating and divorcing and we separated the world just didn't know then we had a Reconciliation and then 2016 came and we had the ultimate break but the world
didn't know mhm and I think that that's where some of the misconception about having an open marriage came into play because we were living lives as single people mhm and the world didn't know over the span of 12 Years of just trying
to figure out this thing called love and marriage between will and I it's been a trip and I think that even with that entanglement piece which I talk about extensively in the book how I played a part in the misconception of that
Narrative of allowing myself to be portrayed as an adulteress allowing myself to be portrayed as someone that had betrayed will and that wasn't the case we broke up in 2016 he went on to live a life as a single man I went on to live a life as a
single woman and then when we had the talk at the red table I was going to go to the red table by myself MH to talk about the entanglement MH MH but will decided he wanted to come with me and we were going to then tell the world hey we haven't been together and this happened during that time well when we got to the table will wasn't ready he wasn't ready he wasn't ready for the world to know that I had to respect that well I didn't have to but I
wanted to but I was ready I was ready to let go of the persona had created around myself that had put me in a golden cage I wanted to let that go and so I had to stay on my journey I had to stay on my path while also
respecting that will wasn't ready so I said you know what this is my mess anyway I'm going to take this heat because guess what the heat is coming either way whether when we decide to get divorced when we decide to separate whatever what whatever this is
my practice run strip It Down Let It Go Jada and then let's see what's left I didn't have to put that particular show out but I had already gotten myself so ready for that Journey for myself and to me that was moving closer to my freedom then holding back and creating a narrative that I felt like was just going to entrap me more and as difficult as it's been because the irony is I spent so much of our relationship having this open
communication between the between he and I creating this beautiful friendship of authenticity and um honesty and so to be labeled as someone who had cheated on him was devastating but it also so put me in a position where I had to learn how to let go of
what anybody thought about me and really be T toes down on understanding who I am and being able to walk in that no matter what anybody thought about me but I needed that Journey for myself you know it's kind of like that
is the walk when they talk about walking on hot coals it's like creating that level of when we talk about that inner world work and creating that like strong Foundation within yourself of knowing exactly who you are no matter what other
people think about you I mean I've gotten that to a certain degree and so that was a very challenging moment and I talk about it in the book because I feel like so many people are challenged in that way of like how can I just walk in
this world MH and be okay with myself no matter what and I talk about the journey you know really extensively in the book um but there have been so many misconceptions about my relationship with will but I think that everybody suffers misconceptions once again whether you're head of the PTA and your husband's that doctor and you're the lawyer you know what I mean and you're you're like the Crum crem of your friend group or you know of your
community and so everybody's expecting you to have a certain kind of marriage and marriage is a journey MH you know and it's a journey towards learning how to love yourself and learning how to love your partner and there's not one way to do it
and everybody I think we do that Journey a real disservice of trying to make it this cookie cut thing like no no no you can only do it this way and it's like each and every person in their relationship they have to look
at what their relationship is calling for in regards to what is needed to get your marriage to the love to the strength to the understanding to the friendship and that unconditional place and the unfortunate part is that we
think once we get married like somebody is readymade they know how to love you even though they don't know how to love themselves they don't know they don't know how to love themselves but you better know how to love me yeah I want
to highlight because I think it's often it can be missed at least is you know when you had that conversation on red table talk it would have been so easy to not have that conversation publicly because people would have their rumors
yeah it would blow over and then it would be over and I'm only raising this because I know how much for you it was part of the work you were doing yeah and that's why I'm raising this because I think what's really interesting is that
when someone's trying to do deep inner healing work yeah actually more often than not their external way will not make sense oh yeah for sure because it literally looks like you're setting yourself up to fail yeah because when
you're really trying to dismantle the ego or you're really trying to deconstruct the false identities that we all build up me included all of us like when when that is there and it's being deconstructed someone would look at you
be like why would you do that like why why do I need to know what and really I just want to highlight and I want you to share about that that the intention was healing the intention wasn't to save face or the int and I know this cuz we
were talking about it the intention wasn't to yeah wasn't to save face and it surely wasn't and I need people to know I didn't ask Will to come to the table yeah yeah that was not my idea MH will wanted to come to the table CU he
didn't want me to be there by myself he had all the best intentions yeah and got there and was I think his trauma response kicked in like I'm not ready so many people were like don't do this and I'm like nah I'm doing it for myself for
myself because I want to live because I'm ready I don't want this whole thing anymore this whole Jada will I'm done with that it was part of the work that I was ready for and it was what I needed and everybody's in different places in
their Journey also that's also a dynamic I had to look at Within Myself in regards to so it's was two things there's this healthy J is like tear it down I want I don't want that Persona anymore tear my ego down and there was this other part of me that was like oh my God I need to protect you know he's not ready you know he's not ready my you know codependency kicks in and I go this is what I do I'm the Martyr I can do the Martyr thing so once
again it's both things it's healing like I'm ready like I'm ready for I'm ready for the tear down and then this martyr that's like and I want to make sure will as long as you're okay I'm okay that's part of my relationship with my mother's
addiction that I brought into my relation relationship with will that created a certain Dynamic Within Myself in my relationship with him that I also needed to get my eyes on that I didn't see that that needed to be healed as
well without that table without that moment I would have never recognized that as painful as it was for people to watch existential disappointment in a collective I'm so sorry I wish it could have happened another way I'm
sorry that it had to be so messy in front of everybody I'm sorry but I needed that what I got to clear up what I got to clean up what I got to see and to be able to sit here with you today and embrace it all and have so much acceptance for
myself for all of the choices I've made and people ask me if you had to do it over again would you do it any different I don't think so honestly like knowing and talking to you I found it to be so courageous and so full of strength
because it was putting yourself on the spot like in no other way and I can't even begin to understand how uncomfortable it is I only can from the conversations we had like well you were right there with me J but the level of discomfort that you
were willing to put yourself in yeah in order to let go of an identity in order to let go of a perception like I'm I'm I'm saying it in these words because I just want everyone who's listening watching just to to think about it for a second like imagine you had to go in front of everyone you knew your family your friends your school whoever it is that you're around your people at work and you had to share a secret that wasn't a secret between you
and the person you're with but was a secret to them just think about that whatever that secret is Right everyone has Secrets everyone has something you know and to do that requires just so much courage and strength and it also shows the I think you were just apologizing that it was so messy I also think that it is uncomfortable like growth is uncomfortable and like letting go of shedding identities is uncomfortable and I'm not comparing my
experience to yours at all because it's not the same in any way but I I'm trying to explain how like a tiny PDA like my kind of like version of it is still as big I remember the day I told my friends and my family and my teachers that I
know longer thought I could be a monk and it sounds so small like now looking back but at the time as someone who had like I was dedicating my life you've met my teachers you know I'm dedicating my life I'm like doing this big thing and
then all of sudden I come to the conclusion that this thought in my head of I'm not good enough I'm not a monk I'm not meant to be like this isn't my path I have other desires whatever it may be I I think I should get married
you know all this stuff and you're so you feel so much shame yes around the fact that you don't you're not good enough and what are people going to say yeah and even for me that was just my temple community and my friends and my
family and even then it was like as if someone was ripping my ego out my chest yeah because that's what it feels like it feels like an extraction of oh absolutely you know not that I'm ego less now but that that was such a big way of crushing that part of my ego and so I just want people to think about it through that perspective and I'm and I'm saying it because I think that we all go through periods in our life where people misunderstand us we
all go through periods in our life where the people we thought loved us and adored us will now be let down we all go through experiences in our life where we have to let let go of someone that we thought we were or what people thought
we were and those are going to be the hardest most painful times and actually if we can learn to be graceful instead of when our friends are getting divorced and we're like did you hear so we had that couple of people in my my community
back at home just got divorced the whole Community is talking about it yeah and I'm just like guys like we have no idea what was going on for the last 10 20 years let's give them Grace cuz you never know when that could be you you
have no idea when it could be you you know it's we're so it's so easy to to judge and throw stones at anyone and everyone like you know and I just really feel that if we have the ability to be graceful and compassionate when other
people are doing that yeah we'll actually do it with ourselves and because we're hard on ourselves y we're hard on others we're hard on others we're hard on ourselves and I just for me I just want to see more people be
graceful for themselves and for others because there's there's so much Human Experience wrapped up in it so yeah that's my hope too you know that people can have more grace for themselves but I tell you I think one of the saving factors was that you know
there were no secrets between will and I yeah yeah yeah and there were no secrets between my kids and I yes so the fact that my family was absolutely aware of the entire Journey it was a Saving Grace for me whatever the world wants to think is whatever you know will knows he was not betrayed and my kids know that I did not betray their father and that to me all that matters yeah but it was quite a exercise of having to walk in the world
like that you know having people think that that's what happened just having um that exercise in that way has been such a healing factor for me of just the level of self-love the level of self-worth that I have because of what that experience has offered me and I'm not I'm not saying that anybody else should do it on that level yeah you know but what I am saying is that there there are ego deaths that have to occur in order to get to a more
authentic place of self-worth and self-love and I want to talk about the the little gurus as you call them in the book we start with Trey who you know this book is dedicated to your daughter and the daughters of the people that
read it and to your sons yeah and to the sons of the people that read it and I wonder what is it that you think you've learned from Trey that you've been taught by Jaden and that you've been taught by Willer in your journey with them all because you
have such a whenever I've seen you with them it's it's you have such a deep beautiful Rich relationship with your kids we were talking about that earlier yeah i' would love to know what is it that each of them have taught you trait
he has such an enormous heart and I think what I love about Trey is his ability to meet people join people where they are his ability to join me he has a way of seeing the best in people no matter what the best in circumstances no matter
what and even in his most challenging times challenging relationships having the willingness to see the person's Spirit versus personality and he's always reminded me of that you know Mom you know that person you know what I mean
like you know what Trey you right he and I have kind of been walking parallel we'll look over at each other and go I see you and he goes I see you you know you know what I mean it's so you know we're the two in the family that's really
been on a intense walk spiritually and he has so much perseverance in regards to understanding God finding his way standing life I don't know if you know he's just such a he's such a light you know so iron sharpens iron he'll walk in
the kitchen he go mom look at me what what do you think I'm feeling today you know what I mean or he'll look at me and go wow you know you're you're like bright what's going on with you like he can just see me yeah and he
could see people you know and I'll be like wow how did you see that yeah this is happening this is he's like really you you know and he's he's just he's just such a light he's just such a joy and so he just is always reminding me to
look for the best in people and I just adore him which why he's a bonus you you know I love and then Willow oh she's such a fireball I mean she she is like the mirror of the fire of my soul when I tell you she is the mirror
of that like I get to see myself in her in so many ways what I love most about Willow is that she is to the point you know what I mean she is like she doesn't have a whole lot of play play MH she's just like no no she just hits it on the mark where sometimes I can be very flowery you know very gentle and I also love how she loves me MH she teaches me a lot about love she teaches me a lot about when I talked about being able to join like she
teaches me a lot about how to join her and how to join others in ways that I'm not used to I know how to join others in ways that I'm used to but me having to learn how to join her in a certain manner I've had to come out of my
comfort zone and really be like oh man I'm very deficient here and her patience with me with that deficiency she's so patient with me she's like it's okay Mom you know sometimes I don't need you to talk to me Mom just hold me I'm like oh
that's all you want me to do you just want that's all I'm not used to that you know I don't come from a family where affection you know that we don't we don't hug each other and hold each other that's not what we did but Willow yeah
Ma I don't need you advice I just want to sit here hold me while I cry and then I have to learn how to I've had to learn she's taught me how to hold tears and really be able to join with those tears and not Rebel and you
know like have them repel because then they bring up my tears and so she's learned she's taught me how to love my tears too you know those places within myself that I haven't always been willing to go you know and now I cry all
the time you know and I call it the thawing because for so long I wasn't allowed I didn't allow myself to cry you know so she's taught me that and then there's Jaden oh man Jaden he's just walking Joy I mean he comes in the room it's just like
Jaden you know he's just walking Joy but he was like that when I carried him I was the happiest I had ever been in my life when I was pregnant with Jaden and I think that had a lot to do with the energy that he carries he has the
capacity to love everything and that is difficulty challenging people challenging situations he has the capacity to love it all and find the beauty in it and I'm I'm talking about sincerely and it is like that's a god-given gift that's not
you can't teach that and so he just I was sitting I you know I was just talking to him to the other day and I was just like oh I was reading this book emotionally immature parents oh and I was like Jaden you got to read this book
your mother's has been an emotionally immature parents right I said you got to read this book and he said um you know what Ma he said things from afar can look a certain way but when you put a microscope up up on something and you
look at it close up he was like it is such a weird shape weird beautiful shapes of things but you get to see the intricacies of it and it's so much more and that's what you are to me you're like this beautiful intricate organism that I love so much
don't ever apologize to me again that's so you know what I mean and that's just how his mind works you know and he comes over and he hugs me and he kisses me on my forehead you know what I'm saying and he's like you you gave
birth to me that don't ever apologize to me you know and he's like and I'm not reading that book I said I'm gonna get you the book anyway I need to read it you know I'm always apologizing to my kids about all kinds of things I think
it's so important for parents to apologize say sorry you know I've gotten in the habit every little like if I misunderstand something or if there's like this like little glip you know what I didn't quite get that then I'm so
sorry I apologize I'm going to do better next time with that and thank you for your patience I think it's important you know I wish my father had apologized to me more my mom apologizes too I actually learned that from her she's apologized a
lot and I actually said the same thing to her now that I'm thinking about it stop apologizing to me but isn't that that those are the best relationships where someone does something yeah and the other person is
like it's fine yeah and that's what kind of it's It's that relationship where internally you're happy you heard it but you know you didn't need to but the person still felt the need to say it and there it it creates so much Clarity
and you know when I told Willow you were coming on today she sent a little no that I want to read no uh because I was I was talking to her about it and I was talking to her about the book and so she sent this little note that I want to
read to you if that's okay oh my God let me get my napkin so she said this is from Willow and Willow if I don't read it as you would in your amazing voice then please forgive me I'm I'm also apologizing to you in advance mom I am incomprehensibly proud of you and all of the inner excavation you have done during the writing of your book there were many times during the process where you would read me sections and Deep Emotions would come up for us
both learning from you through learning about you is one of the biggest joys of my life you never cease to inspire me with how wide you've opened your heart not only to the immense joys of life but also to the deep uncertainties and shadows with equal gratitude and Grace you have shown me true tenderness and true strength come from the same place within and that is something that I aspire to show others thank you for loving me I'm so grateful for
you and uh the guru that's the little Guru right there there it is she loves you so much and they all obviously love you so much but when I read that and when I was reflecting on it was just and as me and rad always talk about this
because we've watched you and Willow so many times together and it has been so inspiring to us to see that connection you both have and the openness you have with your kids and how well they understand you and you know as you were just saying you're
always apologizing but that's what they're seeing yeah they see that because you're so willing to share with them yeah I don't I don't keep Secret from my kids I've let them see my deepest flaws and I think that's important I mean and not in the way that we have to be careful with that too but I mean just as far as like it's okay to be human not being afraid to show my humanness CU that's the one thing with my mother that I have so much gratitude
for that I could see her as a human being and my relationship with you know my mother being an addict and me being able to relate to her as not just my mother but as a a woman you know as a person and I think that
was one aspect that I felt like I really needed to bring into my relationship with my kids for them to see me as a person we're in this together yeah it comes across when I've witnessed it it's it's the most beautiful thing I could only ever dream
that when Ry and I are able to do that that you know that we you will have what you have it's it's really special it's remarkable to watch in in practice and I and I mean that and you know the message says it all
but Jay I wanted you know I throughout this book and and even in this interview today I think I was going to save this to say it later but I'm going to say it now I've been sharing spirituality with people in different ways since I was 18 years old
and and I was so young and immature then in my spirituality and I still am today and that will always continue and I've just been fortunate to sit at the feet of incredible teachers and mentors and so any realization I've had earlier than I
should have had it is because of sitting with elders and you know sitting with the teachers I've introduced you to and I've rarely met someone who's as eager for healing as you m I don't think I've met a family that's
more where healing is the top priority right and it's such an interesting thing to perceive in someone because you can tell by someone's language and when their eyes light up and their body language changes as to what they are motivated by and ever since I met you from the first day we met backstage Green Room for red table yeah talk Series 2 launch Day event I was getting to host an interview you G and Willow and I remember you'd ask me like
what did you learn as a monk and I'd said to you I was I was giving to you the what I did learn as practices but I wasn't getting to the root of it so I was explaining the practices like gratitude and meditation and mindfulness
and service and you were you were kind of just like oh that's cool like you know you and then i' said to you because I felt a inner voice say that I should and it was truly guided from within and I said to you I learned how to love God
and that was potentially the first time I'd even said that in that way to someone and you just like your whole body language and your eyes and everything just changed and everyone else was late so we were just talk talking and you were like I want to learn how to love God too and you'd obviously already been on that Journey for decades like you know and you talk about in the book where you started with the ethical Society right you know that
had been a journey that had been a part of your journey forever but it was so interesting to me to meet someone and an entire family who is more focused on healing and growth and and God in their own way in your in your own language in
your own in your own ways than than anything else I've never we've never had a conversation that steers too far away from that from any of those things which which says so and and we have fun and we have a good time and everything but but
that and the reason I raised that is because I also saw that when you were talking about Oscar's night in the book you referred to as the holy slap and the holy joke and you've always looked at everything through the
lens of how is this bringing me closer to the Divine I remember one conversation we had about the feminine Divine and I'll never forget it because we at this point we'd been doing we've been talking twice a week for like a year and a half or something
and we were talking about a specific aspect of the divine feminine uh which is often left out or forgotten or or hidden i' had never seen anyone respond in a way so sincere clearly and genuinely to a vision of God as you did and you said
we're tears in your eyes you're like I've been looking for this God for 25 years and I remember just going like I I could just see the the genuine and the sincerity in your eyes and I was just like wow like I hope I can love like
that one day like that's actually what I felt like as it was so inspiring and I know that I've got closer to Divinity through our work and that's because of your seeking and you've pulled me closer to the Divine through your seeking which
you've given me the greatest gift like for years and years and years ever since I've known you and it's your ability to to look for that and so I I wanted to talk to you about you know I think when when it all went down on Oscar's night
the and you talk about this in the book and so I want to leave everyone to read about it in full but the but the perception was that you were so offended that you'd kind of urge this action which is bizarre in and of itself for so many
reasons that you lay out in the book but I want to hear from you like what were you actually hurt by about the condition that you were going through and in that gap between what we saw yeah and what we did didn't get to
see which everyone had their own theory on what was actually your thought space or where were you let me start with that was a really layered moment let me start with also that there was so much that people didn't know in regards
to what was happening with will and I at that time and I I will leave for people to get the book yeah absolutely because there's so much much history mhh and you go into break it down I break it down H why I did not exactly so much history
that I think would give people a lot more context to understand that moment let me also say that I know that was a difficult moment to watch because of history that Chris and I had um in regards to the 2016 Oscar so white and I'll let people read to get up to speed on that but when I first saw Chris's name come on stage come up as one of the presenters I said oh boy I looked to will and I was like he's not going to be able to help himself this is
going to be something I was like I knew I already knew and I was like okay so will have been going back and forth backstage all night so when Chris said what he said I looked to will as if to say see I knew it right um and then I
was like oh boy that's not cool to like talk about a medical condition that people there's nothing you can like it's it's it's not something that can be cured right and that how many stories I had heard of people you know young
people committing suicide and the shame and just how many people suffer and you don't even know like once I had the condition and I saw how many people around me had it I was like all these years I didn't know and people Express the shame the level of Shame they had around it I'm going to be okay as far as my condition as you can see my hair is growing back that's what it does it'll grow it'll fall out it'll grow back again pieces of my eyebrows
will fall out grow back you know I'm having a good moment right now my alipa is not as Extreme as most people who are dealing with that condition and I just felt like that's not okay so I wasn't I wasn't upset about me and I I don't remember actually
rolling my eyes I think what people saw was me looking at will going I told you I knew he was going to do that and oh boy here we go again mhm yeah that was kind of the yeah you know oh here we go but I wasn't upset about me it really
wasn't it wasn't about me it was just all the stories I had heard and that I continue to hear about people who have suffered from this condition and obviously you didn't want what happened to happen like I think that I'm just
clarifying I know that I'm just clarifying it of course it wasn't like I looked at will and said you know you know I know but and that's the kind of you know those are the kind of moments of context that I think I lost sometimes
listen there was an aspect of that that I was as shocked as anyone because will and I hadn't been referring to each other as husband and wife since 2016 I was like wife me that's right I am I'm okay that's right I am your wife
and that kicked in I'm like yep here we are in that moment that that did happen I was like we came together we're leaving together you know that part of me that put everything else aside and it's like this is going to be something I
need to make sure Will's okay we're going to get through this I had no idea that that was none whatsoever and I came as family I actually didn't go to the Oscars as Will's wife and I know for people that's weird but what was going
on behind the scenes will and I had been said like we weren't living as husband and wife since 2016 I was happy he asked me to go I was happy he wanted to share that moment with me still and I was going to be by his side and I think also people
weren't really aware of the journey that had taken place after emancipation as far as Will's concern tot it was a really difficult movie and afterwards he decided to get into therapeutic settings and he asked me to join him because a lot of stuff was coming up a lot of stuff from his past childhood stuff I think people didn't understand that there was a history there between he and Chris as well so there was a lot of context that people
just didn't have yeah yeah you know and I'm going to tell you something else I understand why people thought it was me I understand why people blame me I don't think it's right but I understand you know considering the narratives that
were out there that I was part of I have to take responsibility for that and I talk about that in the book you know me being the adulterous wife that had you know pushed will to his limit I get it so I couldn't even take any of it
personally and I had to put myself in the shoes of the audience and go if I was looking at this how would what would I say I probably would have said the same thing and then that made me really look at like oh man like culturally we're always blaming women like I had to really go deep into that why do we do that you know that men of power that have so much of their ownness in their life but when something bad happens it's a woman's fault you know
what I mean it's so interesting you know and I had I really started to examine that but more so just looking at that narrative and taking responsibility and at the same time there was love and compassion for Chris there was that oh
yeah you know I talk about that in the book I've worked with Chris I know Chris am I always a fan of Chris's stage work no but Chris has a person he's a sweet guy there was a moment when Chris came down to the end of the
stage and you have to understand I'm in deep confusion I don't know what's going on because of me understanding the context of Will and I behind the scenes what just happened on the stage I'm worried about will I've never seen that from him I don't know
what's going on but Chris comes to the end of stage and he looks at me deeply sincerely and he says Jada I meant no harm and it was so sincere in his eyes I'm like that's the Chris I know that's the Chris I've experienced that's the
Chris that a lot of people don't get to see because people just see Chris on stage doing what Chris does but I'm glad I had that moment because with everything else that transpired afterwards you know his Netflix certain comments and all of that I could hold on to that sincere moment so when we talk about looking past personality when somebody has had that opportunity to show you their heart to show you their Spirit that's the truth not all the
other stuff that hurt misunderstanding confusion might bring up so where my feelings hurt when I heard what was happening as far as the Netflix of course my feelings were hurt but I didn't take it personally because I I can see his eyes
right now as I'm talking to you and that's the truth of Chris's Spirit Jade I meant no harm I talk about it in the book it's like you got to have Grace when we're hurt I'm not saying that I agree with how it was handled I don't
agree with it but I understand and so my hope is that there will be such a beautiful opportunity for healing and my hope is that that will occur as time everything needs time you have two beautiful men who have
hurts and who have hurt one another but they're both beautiful men and as I said before my hope is that these two very capable beautiful men at some time figure out how to resolve this whole thing of the present and of the past you know cuz life is
about healing man it's like Life's too short and you know sometimes conflicts can really amplify love they really can I know it has for me and that's why I call that chapter the holy slap the holy joke the holy slap and the holy lessons
because through all of this conflict that I've been in the midst of all this misunderstanding that I've been in the midst of it's helped amplify love within my heart it's made my heart more elastic hate and I've really had been
able to understand how hate has a ceiling you know hate aggression um wow you know it it has a ceiling whereas love is a wow but it takes so much courage and it's so easy to go into aggression it's so easy to go into you know hateful feelings it's
easy and I can't blame anybody for doing it and I have no judgment cuz guess what been there done that you know J when uh you started today you said that you know this is your journey from being unlovable to trying to find love again
and it's really it's really the true story of all of our Lives of just we're all on that journey of being unlovable thinking that if someone loves us we'll be fine then thinking that if we get or achieve this will be fine then
thinking if I love this person perfectly then I'll be fine and it's like we we keep filling in that yeah the sentence between unlovable with to lovable with so many versions and I think what this book this Memoir does so beautifully
honestly is you show us every version that you tried to fit yes in that Gap right every version every version that you tried to fit in that Gap You're just showing us the reality of what that comes with like the pain that comes with
trying to fit everything into that Gap and I appreciate you for doing that because it's it's hard to not turn every story into a fairy tale ending or perfect ending and there isn't that here and I think that that's what truly makes
it relatable it's what truly makes it applicable wherever we are on our Journeys on that spectrum and anyone else's and it's why I said that I I really hope that anyone who's on that Journey themselves will pick this book up and be able to notice which Gap they're trying to fill it with yeah and come back in if that sounds if that feels right if that that's really right it's like because you're right it's like all these it's like okay that didn't
work let me go over here let me try this and then it just nope you got you you got to heal you and you got to really get with a power higher than yourself and I want to thank you for really being so helpful in so many ways Jay in regards to you talk about I mean we've been on such a beautiful journey together in that way of just learning and deepening our relationship with God individually together um I so appreciate you for that I mean
you have been so instrumental in that way I genuinely can't take any credit like I'm not even I'm not even that's not and that's not even me being that's not me being humble or modest it's it's me just saying that in the same way as
you feel people came into your life to you know accelerate that journey and reconnect you like you did the same for me and radii like in a in a physical way you all of you have given us so much family we've celebrated so many
thanksgivings together we've we've had you over for sa every you know for days and days and weeks and months and years and you know you've given us so much and I I don't I think that's what I think this book does I think that's what we
will do for our friendships is that I got the opportunity to build a friendship with you that was based on nothing else but healing growth and the Divine and that kind of relationship just has a different energy like it's really special when there's
nothing else there's nothing else that yeah would have made our paths cross yeah we don't work together we don't have we don't do business together we don't have the same friends like you know but but but this this right I'm so
grateful to watch someone do the hardest work and I'm going yeah I need to do it too you know like and I admire it because I see it from that perspective with you and I always have that you're not trying to take the easy way
out you're not you're not just looking to fix it with a Band-Aid you're not just hoping it will go away you're like no I'm gonna sit there with him that is just I just that is such an uncomfortable place naturally for 99% of
people yeah I'm in a all of you because of it and I always will be and I'm just I'm I'm so happy that you decided to put it into writing because this isn't about clarifying it isn't about people getting a sense of what really happened that's not what it's
about it's about how can we sit through that discomfort that we're going through in our life and and choose healing and growth even when it's the hardest thing and the farthest thing away from us listen if things get cleared up from reading this book great but that's not the purpose cuz I I actually don't think you can you can't yeah yeah you you can't it'll just be more stirring up whatever other things right um and it's really which is why it's
even more important to really be able to have a strong sense of self right and not to be looking for external things to be to substitute what you have to have inside in order to know your place in this world this place is
crazy and to try to make the material space the material world align in a way for your comfort that's it can't start there it has to start within yourself that how you see and what you attract to you is in alignment with what is happening here
right but looking for the world to buoy you up or accept you in a certain manner no yeah like I said before this can just give some little breadcrumbs to help people get to a sense of self-worth that gives them that Comfort no matter what is happening you know if you've brought freaking chocolate chip cookies with peanuts in them to the school Fair even though kids might have allergies and the school them wrote you a letter and said don't
bring products with peanuts and you made them and you right you made them with love yeah and now the mom group is on your neck you can be okay you can be okay with your victories and you can be okay with the inevitable challenges that life is
going to deliver it's okay either way you're okay you're worthy you're lovable peanuts and all so Jada one of the things that you mentioned was that you went to the Oscars as family yeah but not as a wife yeah and I wanted
to ask you how do you define the status of your relationship now and what is it like you know right now of course we've had it's been an intense two years and we've really been doing some deep healing together
and that's why I was saying before the idea of how just really disruptive sit situations can amplify love in a certain manner because it kind of forces you to have to dive a little deeper that's what we've been doing we've just been growing together
and see what happens then see what grows from there you know but like I said in the book it's like we have this beautiful friendship and we really look at our marriage as being the Cornerstone of family we're both kind of coming up with different
definitions of what marriage means for us we're still figuring all of that out yeah but the beautiful part is that there's been some really deep healing going on yeah I mean you know that I mean at the end of the day that's what
it's about marriage is so much about growth like really learning how to grow emotionally like emotional maturity spiritual maturity and there's this spiritual bond there I mean we've tried our best to get away from each other I mean I mean our
best and we just don't want to so we are defining it the way that works for us and I think getting comfortable with not being concerned about what anybody else thinks about it we have this life partnership and every
day we're trying to figure out what that means you've both talked about how you feel like you're a mirror for each other yeah and when I've spoken to will as well it's like he feels like you're the person who knows him to his core
absolutely and he know and he knows you to your core like you know everything yeah that potentially there is to know about each other and you're obviously still learning yeah what's really interesting about that is some people
would say well why not just get divorced yeah everybody's always like why don't you just get divorced and it's like that's like quitting I don't think there's any person that could embrace the best and the worst of me and be able
be willing to hold space in the way that will hold space for me in the way that I hold space for him and I know that most people probably go into their relationship as like you are here to please me and yeah our relationship
isn't quite that you know it's like it's more about there's no greater mirror I could have then will he doesn't I can't I can't get around myself just like he can't get around himself with me and I think that that's just
been what this has been all about like it's been a deep clearing like really having to look at yourself in ways in that mirror that sure we talk about this all the time would it be easier to go and find somebody else and have a more
pleasing more comfortable relationship maybe but would that get me to the person that I really want to be I don't think so and I'm not saying that everybody's relationship is supposed to be that I'm not here to say that I'm
just saying that that's what my relationship is that's something I desire to get to a a deeper part a more spiritually sound emotionally sound and really understand love unconditionally and the thing that I've learned about unconditional love you
can't really understand what unconditional love in ideal circumstances to really get to what it is to love yourself and someone else completely with all that's divine all that's human all that's perfect and all that is deeply
flawed and have have full acceptance for it all I tell you this is you know marriage is not for the faint at heart it's just not and it is definitely I believe I believe you know different people get married for different reasons so I'm not trying to
say why anybody else should be married but for me the holy path of getting to a Divine aspect of myself in partnership with Will and it seems like will wants the same for himself and it's taken us you know I mean we got together at what I was 23 okay 23 when I first decided to commit myself to will Carol Smith Lord [Laughter] Jesus so young so young we were babies babies trying to figure this out and you know what's interesting about young
relationships you create these young patterns that get so like these really young immature patterns in yourself and how you relate to your partner and then you create these Dynamics between one another that it takes a while to like really be willing to look at that stuff and dissolve it and let it go and mature and grow it takes some real like self-inventory patience courage right because you're breaking down everything all your romantic ideas
everything you thought you know relationship or marriage all your romantic fantasies you know just you know Blow Up in Flames but it's really been freeing it's really been freeing to see what's more true right I'm not saying that I know
the truth yet I just feel like I'm seeing more of what's true you know as regards to what love and partnership is about because I was definitely one of those people that's like you're here to make me happy and when you don't do it
that's a problem and that and that's a normal setup that's how we believe relationships are and you know I've talked about it before and I I put it forward in my book this idea that we think pleasure is The Ultimate Gift of a
relationship but really purification is and that's a really tough idea for anyone including me I like I haven't perfected that idea for me to wrap my head around and I can honestly say that I love rad and you know you you've seen
us both together and everything but the greatest gift rad gives me is a mirror and a purification of rad can call out my ego better than anyone or anything and I know it's coming from a good place rad can show me my flaw in the nicest
most supportive way possible and can receive it back from me yeah and then I feel like because of her I'm trying to be better getting better not for her that's right for myself it's almost like the person that you live with knows you so deeply or the
person that you've seen has seen you in all circumstances in all situations knows you the deepest I would say R knows whether I woke up and meditated in the morning like rad knows whether I got angry or frustrated at night after a phone call like rad knows that and if I use that to my advantage of am I becoming am I growing but it's such a hard concept for people to understand because it's it's so counterintuitive to the pleasure seeking
mind that we've been conditioned to Chase and again I'm not saying we shouldn't have pleasure in relationship AB that's not the point I'm making I'm just saying that there's more to it there's another level there's definitely
more to it and I think we've talked about this before you and I as far as people believing that romantic love is the highest form now I believe that romantic love is an aspect right of a higher form but it I don't believe that romantic self
romantic love itself is the highest form right I believe within the highest form you can have romantic love but that romantic love is not of the highest right and that's all I've been examining and exploring with Will
and really trying to understand the power of unconditional love friendship like there's something about friend ship familial love that is beautiful but when two people can have an agreement around Divine Love Like Love of a source greater than
yourself MH that you want to be connected to and then you decide that your relationship is going to be connected to that same source oh boy now we're on to something now we're on to something but to think that romantic love can hold all of the difficulties and challenges alone and I think that's why so many of us get into these power struggles and why there's so many divorces and why that you know just all of this strife and relationships you
brought up something that was really important and it's the idea of Rody when she can kind of pull your coattails with love and I think that's it takes a lot of work to figure that out like to not be offended when someone shows up
imperfectly and that those are those kind of pieces um within relationship like we feel like people are supposed to come readymade you walk down the aisle and it's like he knows how to love me you know I know how to love him you know and
not making room for that space of growth that is inevitable people are going to mess up people going to do stupid stuff people going to say stupid stuff now when it comes to abuse and all of that that's a different story right but
people who are willing to learn how to love each other cuz I really do think that's what committed relationships about marriage or not I'm committed to learning how to love myself learning how to love you right and then learning how to cultivate
this relationship that we have with that Essence with those components then that's a beautiful thing that's what I believe the holy path of relating is is all about and not everybody wants that yeah totally you
know some people really just want the Romantic version of it and that's okay too absolutely absolutely that's okay too you know but um for me definitely on that path of looking for something deeper Within Myself mostly yeah how did you let go of
that desire for romantic love but then hold on to the friendship because I feel like that's a journey that is so hard whether someone stays married or gets divorced or like like you both are you described yourself as best friends yeah
how did you hold on to Friendship being able to let go of the Mirage that you had earlier or even not even the Mirage the reality of what you had earlier as you talk about in the book you know the chemistry the spark I think so many of
us are trying to hold on to that but you've let go of that and then you're saying but we've held on to the Friendship the the mirror the work the growth that sounds like the hard way through it I think it's how people show
up and people don't always show up perfect clearly but one thing about will and I we're just not willing to give up yeah it's like I'm lucky that we just want to have each other in in one another's life right you have moments of
disharmony but if if you know that you're not willing to not have that person in your life you know you got to put forth the effort and you got to put forth the work to transform whatever is not working so we always make the
decision to take that one step closer to diving more deeply to learning how to love and most of the time time it has more to do with self-inventory having to go in the corner and look at oneself and then come back and go I was
tripping whether it's I'm sorry or I had a misunderstanding can we look at this now together because now I've looked at it in my corner alone and I've seen my part and I want to talk to to you first about my part a b c and d right and then inevitably usually your partner go well you know I could have done such a such a such and so when you have an agreement that's really unspoken of like I want you in my life and I want to have good times with
you and I love you then that's the energy that nurtures and keeps one willing to just keep working at it so there's that deep love and the great thing is that Will's got a great sense of humor you know what I mean he's got a
really good sense of humor so he has a way of being able to help me get out of my funk but I'm kind of like you talk about this a lot with Rody where I kind of have to take my time like I'm not always ready to talk right away I need I
need to like sit I need to be with myself I need to kind of like work through my thoughts and all of that where will is always ready to talk yeah I like to go deep he likes to get funny the great thing about him he can go deep
totally absolutely and there are times that I really like to play and have fun yeah so we we're like these energetic Fields you know I'm Earth and he's Sky you know we are your typical yin and yang you know that you know there there's
this great chemistry there between us that just works and but when it doesn't work oh man oh man oh man you know what I mean those moments when it's just like ah but I think that's just inevitable in every relationship you know and but it just
doesn't look traditional I think that's the point that's that's the part where it's like it just doesn't look traditional it the trust there's commitment there's understanding and at the same time it doesn't look traditional I don't know
I'm be honest with you there are aspects of traditional relating that absolutely work but I think in this day and age I don't know too many marriages that are traditional I really don't everybody is trying to figure it out M right and I
think everybody's so scared to talk about all of the different ways that they that they're trying to figure it out I know so many people who are like married but not living together married but have decided to have other partners
I know so many people and have for a long time that are trying marriage in so many different forms and my whole thing is figure it out for youh marriage is not a cookie cutout like uh formula besides I do think that there's some Staples you know love but even that let me take that out for a second there's some people who are married strictly for business purposes I've seen that too as long as there's AG greement ment between two people and how
they decide they want to be together stay out of it it has nothing to do I tell people all the time don't look at my marriages being contagious whatever I'm doing doesn't mean you got to be doing that you got to be doing the thing that works for you
and I feel like every partnership two people have the right to figure that out for them and it's so different in Norms in different cultures and different backgrounds I mean like for me and RI we spend a lot of time
apart because she likes to be back with her family in London and I travel for work and so we discovered and agreed very early on in our relationship that when I work she would often visit her family back in London and she loves it
and she's wants to be with her mom and dad and her niece and nephew and her sister and brother-in-law and everyone and I love my purpose and I want to be traveling I want to be working I want to be moving and I remember so many times
in our relationship people be like is everything okay yeah and then we go back to London people be like why is your wife not with you or people like why is Jay not with you and everyone starts thinking that there may be something
going on and it's actually like well no this was our agreement this is something we've sat and talked about and figured things out and actually we love distance because we get excited to see each other again it's refreshing it works for us
and again it may not work for anyone else someone may say I need my partner by my side every day fair enough right and someone may say I want to travel more than you do or less but we just found that having honest conversations between us and knowing why we were making certain decisions even though they were abnormal to our community the community that we grew up in where the way we live is very abnormal even though it's just about time
apart the point was we had an agreement that worked for us and I think getting to know you both I I can honestly say that I feel like you guys are both always honest and communicative with each other on what your Agreements are
absolutely that's what we have been discussing today as well that you know there's there's always been that that openness to do that oh yeah well I talk about it a lot in the book absolutely and I think that a lot of people had a lot of misunderstanding as
that we talked about earlier I believe in regards to open relationship and being able to be with whoever you want no that that's not what was happening and I think a lot of times that people just didn't know that we had agreed to
not be together as we were trying to figure out are we going to be separated are we going to be divorced then we would reconcile and then we would break up again and it's all this back and forth between us that we didn't share
with the world a lot you know and I think now people are just going to have to be okay with our marriage is not traditional in the sense of here we are married but not you know what I mean and you know as I'm on my path and Will's
figuring his thing out we've decided to hold space for each other and as we're trying to figure out who we are Will's lived a lot of his life for other people I've definitely lived my life a lot for other people and really having this time
for me I need this what I've been able to discover about myself in the last five years six years I think now I've needed this time to really concentrate on me and really developing like a relationship with myself and I feel like the better relationship I have with myself the better relationship I have with everyone else in my life including will and so I talk about that a lot in the book you know just a lot of the misunderstandings that have
occurred rightfully so because it's been a lot of mixed messaging and then people are like well you know you guys have been on the red you know and all of that we see you we never knew there was a breakup you weren't supposed to that was
between us and at the end of the day we're always family no matter what so I think that the way we are deciding to be in a union people just going to have to get with that it's probably not going to look like what someone else is doing and
that's just the truth of the matter you know and we're good with that I can definitely say that whatever relationship anyone is in that we all get to a point in our relationships romantic or otherwise where growing together becomes
the greatest priority it doesn't matter how we got there how we got there or what's happening it's just that I think that is the key I was saying to that when I was writing my book eight rules of love it was like the journey I went
on through writing it got me to that point of recognizing that yes the goal of every relationship in my life is simply to teach me something I have been unwilling to learn and the people that I'm closest to come on Jay yeah the people that I'm
closest to mhm are the only ones that can push me that's right or pull me to seeing that whether it's your mom whether it's your dad whether your sister brother partner whatever it may be and for me I also discovered through the
writing of the book that the greatest love story and I really really believed this when I was writing it I was like the greatest love stories in the world are actually not romantic the greatest love stories in the world are you
generally human sacrificing themsel in the service of others like you see people take on great sacrif to help people that they may not even meet or you see people like taking on a mission or a movement that positively affect so
many people that they were never even connected to like those are the greatest acts of Love or the act of love that a parent has for their child that they extend themselves and express and that unconditionality you don't really see
romantic love being unconditional generally it's interesting that trying to practice and understand what unconditional love is and figuring it out which we all are including me but that Journey was really powerful for me
to recognize that the more unwilling I become and the more I hide from the lessons that I'm meant to learn the harder it gets and the harder the lesson gets and the test gets and it just gets bigger and worse it gets bigger and you know the truth of the matter is is like I'm always going to be by Wills side you know when I think about like if something ever happened to him it's like I'm going be right there if he needs me I'm going to be right
there always that's just an unbreakable fact that's the bond we have you know we've tried to break it we in every which way you can think of we don't want to be in this lifetime without one another it's just not going to happen so we're trying to figure out what that looks like for us and there there's something really powerful about that I got to be honest as difficult as it's been has there's been times that I've hated that fact having
somebody that forces me to have to raise my Consciousness evolve my understanding of love to deal with the fact of that Bond that's a god-given gift because me and God got to get with that God has to be my mentor on How to
Love Will and myself and care for the relationship that we have Through The Eyes of the great Supreme not the way Jaden wants it and so that has been a beautiful surrender that I've really have had to surrender because I really feel like is by the
decree God was like oh no in this lifetime that's your person like it or not I don't care so it set me up to have to break certain ideas of my own personality and my own ego and really surrender to what the great Supreme
wants to teach me about love and about patience and about care kindness consideration forgiveness of myself forgiveness of others it's deep and I'm so grateful it's been a painful Journey no doubt but the gifts that I get on the other side of that
discomfort and when I get on the other side of the discomfort I go I get it I couldn't not have gotten that gift or that understanding without that trial you gave me I just ask God these days can you make it a little easier I think I think I'm
getting the groove of things you know what I mean just like come on you know but I've also realized too that I'm getting to the point that when things tumultuous things come about I smile and I go okay you got a great one
for me on the other side of this bad boy you know what I mean you just start to realize it it's never failed in that way I remember asking Swami I said do you think I should get divorced wow I didn't know you asked him that I sure did I asked
Mommy and he said you know Jada people take their vows very lightly these days and he said something to the fact that you know when we stay stay committed to the vows that we make we find what we need and I was like okay and I I just
stayed on track I was just like all right let me let me just keep digging let me keep going and he you know he's right for my journey yeah can't say for anybody else for my journey cuz he said oh this is what he said he said people
end up as friends and the long run and they're holding hands walking each other home and that's how I feel I feel like will and I are walking each other home as life Partners well J I want to share one last thing with you if I can so
earlier I had a letter for you from Willow okay and I also have a letter from will I may need your help with you may have to reenact some words because I feel like you'll be able to channel okay will better than me I will not try and
impersonate him because it won't go well but this was for you J I think it was when we found out that you coming on the show and right I I was happy that he was able to send this to me and so I could share it with you and I'll just read it
and let's let's do it in his words okay so you'll have to explain this one for us I know but I want the audience to know so he said congrats dink okay so let me just tell you tell us that let me tell you what dink means oh he's so crazy so when we play golf he's my favorite person to play golf with so when we play golf when I hit my driver it goes [Laughter] Dink and so that's why he calls me dck who who's better at golf he's definitely
better okay but I'm I'm getting to a point where I can you know I can challenge him in a good way on a couple of holes for sure all right okay congrats dink I just turned the final page of worthy and damn gonna get you to do the
damn how would he say it damn I just turned the final page of worthy and damn it is amazing to realize that despite having lived most of my Life by your side I still found myself shocked and stunned and Court of God laughing then
inspired then heartbroken I was all over the place it's one thing to hear anecdotes at a family barbecue but it was truly overwhelming to take in your story potently condensed in this way you are one of one a rare
blend of power and delicate sensitivity I know it wasn't easy to excavate the depths in that way I applaud and honor you if I had read this book 30 years ago I definitely would have hugged you more I'll start now welcome to the author's Club I love you
endlessly now go get some Merlo and take a rest [Laughter] he know I can't have no more love that's beautiful that's why I can't divorce that joker yeah there's one line that really hit me and I want to hear obviously how you felt but he said if I had read this book 30 years ago I definitely would have hugged you more I'll start now how how did it feel listening to parts of that you know one of the things I talk about in the book a lot is
perspective when we got married we'll had to be 28 29 we had such different needs no right or wrong you know will was very driven but I got married because I I was pregnant and I wanted a family and that I must say that was the one
thing we both wanted to create a family we never had but what we thought took having a healthy family will believed man as long as I get out here make money get the biggest house make sure you guys don't need anything that's how you have
a great family and my thing was like No but love and you know me and you we got to you know everything was centered around feelings love we just couldn't find agreement because we thought we had two different goals around What it Took and
so to hear him say that he would have hugged me more is me hearing him say he would have taken a bit more time to listen and understand that doesn't mean that he would have to be off his path but just to take a little bit more time to listen
and understand and I think when we were young cuz that was the same way I mean when we were young you just think your way is the only way and I think that where will and I are getting to now is understanding that our ways my way is just one way his way is just one way and then how do we listen to each other more to blend those ways I was very careful in not going into romanticized regret after hearing that line I wish I could have hugged you more
but I will do so now right I like no no no you're not going to go into romanticized regret wow because what I know as a fact is that every step everything that has transpired between us has been absolutely perfect all the beauty and all the ugly to get us to a place that we're that we're coming to you know and you could you could go oh I wish that you know I had known this when I was younger that's the whole point of Youth you don't
know you know what I mean and then to really just to be able to embrace like this time in my life and in his life and coming into New Found wisdom and enjoy that but I'm so glad that getting closer to that blend between us and that's what I'm
saying it's like who else am I going to grow with like that and be able to have those that deep cherished moment of like when you can look back at where you were 30 years ago and where we've traveled to get to this moment right
here right now at this beautiful family without him I wouldn't have had Jaden Willow Trey oh my gosh there are no great Treasures than those three and then all of the Magnificent experiences he and I have had together the great ones and the not so great ones you know but they're ours part of our tapestry one thing I talk about in the book going to see Ruby D when I needed some marital advice and she told me laugh now because you're going to laugh
later and it's so true I didn't know what she was talking about then but she'd been married at that time for 50 some years a see was gone Azie Davis had passed on you know and one of the things she said to me I said what's one of your
biggest regrets and she said I wished I had laughed with him more and that never leaves my mind MH to just find ways to get through the bumpy to get through the bumpy stuff and let's get back to some laughter and some joy j I'm going to
give this to you in case you want to read it again yeah uh and I want to thank you for you know your vulnerability your openness today and the vulnerability in the book that you shared so profoundly today but the book you get to weave the tapestry together and the lessons and where they come in your life and I really I really believe that anyone who will Le read this book will gain access to a much deeper understanding of themselves as a
mirror and also get an opportunity to reframe rethink renew ideas perspective thoughts about their own Journey that is all that I want like we have so much fear around allowing people their Journeys because we can tend to get hurt within them
along the way but it's inevitable and the more that we can have acceptance for the reality that life is a journey nobody is meant to be perfect it baffles me well actually let me take that back it doesn't baffle me because I've been
there it doesn't baffle me I've been there where just being afraid to allow what is to be and that is embracing our humanness and learning how to love each other through our humanness all this cancel culture and all of this that is purely a rejection of aspects of ourselves and a rejection of humanness and that's where unconditional love has its most power right but if we can learn to do that with us starting with ourselves right learning how to
have unconditional love for ourselves and have acceptance for our journey and that's what I want from this book I'm just putting it out there like he this is what my journey looks like and it ain't cute this is what I've learned along the
way and this is how I learned how to gain selfworth and to feel worthy about it all about it all about it all day every piece of it and that's all I want for everybody else it's okay it's okay you don't have to come down on
yourself and just because we stumble and we might lose our way doesn't mean we're lost forever thank you Charles Xavier from X-Men for that statement I love X I did too Charles laid it out just like that I had to put that quote in my book
but it's true that's all I want for everybody we are all worthy embracing at all every aspect of our journey that is the thing that makes us worthy we're harder on others because we're so hard on ourselves we're hard on ourselves
because we're so hard on others and that cycle keeps repeating itself point out someone's floor because we're pointing them out in ourselves but not looking at the growth we're trying to make and the growth someone else trying to make the
healing Journey that they're on and the healing Journey that we're on and as you were just saying that what came to my mind was that we all have to take the same steps but on our own path and I think what this book does so gracefully
is show your steps which reminds us all that even if we trip and we fall which we inevitably will there's still another step after that that we can take and that ultimate step is what you just so beautifully put the step of recognizing that all of it was worthy all of it was part of that Journey towards selfworth and that you're loved you're loved and you're held no matter what through all of the scrutiny and through all of the I don't know
stones that were thrown at me as painful as all of that was what a beautiful Gauntlet to get me to the understanding that it's only our self judgment that's the true enemy and I got to cure so much of my own self- judgment through all of that
it's almost like being like Wonder Woman you know you know what I mean it's like the great Supreme makes it so that you're Invincible to all the criticism anything else anybody has to say about you when you get that true sense of
worthiness doesn't matter what anybody else thinks doesn't matter what other misunderstandings are happening and I want that for everybody it's a superpower but it's not given without the trial it's beautiful it's beautiful it's beautiful thank you I'm so grateful and thank you Jay thank you Jay yeah thank you Jay you've been so good to me through it all thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you so grateful to you too as well for letting
me be a small part of the journey because it's one that you give me The Bravery To Tread myself so thank you if you love this episode you'll love my interview with Will Smith on owning your truth and unlocking the power of
manifestation anybody who hasn't spoken look to their parents or their brother call them right now don't think you're going to have a chance to call them tomorrow or next week that opportunity with my father changed every relationship in my life