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You know, an understanding that life is not an enemy.
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You know, and that adversity is not meant to steal things from you.
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It is actually meant to help you find the things within you that help you find the giant within actually.
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You know, but that and just learning how to lay down that wall.
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Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world.
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Thanks to each and every single one of you.
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I'm so amazed at how you're all so committed and dedicated to listen, to learn and grow every single week.
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And I truly am grateful to each and every one of you that's listening or watching right now.
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And today my heart is filled, literally filled with gratitude, with joy, with a deep sense of appreciation because I'm getting to have a conversation with someone who I have admired and respected from afar for so much of my life.
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And within the last year, I'm honored, genuinely honored and privileged to call a dear, dear friend.
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And even though we've only known each other for maybe about a year now, I feel like I've known her for lifetimes.
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And I mean that literally, I feel like I've known her forever.
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And today's guest, as you know already, is none other than Jada Pinkett Smith.
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She's an incredible actress, producer, creator, musician, mother, philanthropist, and so much more.
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She's the host of the number one show on Facebook, as we all know it.
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It's been nominated for tons of awards, Red Table Talk, where they dive in into this table of purification, this table of transparency, as she calls it, and shed light on these tough topics that we never get going about.
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And she's one of these people that from the moment you meet her, her whole energy will just captivate you and embrace you.
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Like you'll feel this big hug.
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And I felt that way from the moment I met Jada, and I'm so grateful that today she's on on purpose.
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Jada, thank you for being here.
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Don't bring me the tears.
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Oh, I meant You know I meant to I know. I know.
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You know I meant to I send you these long like deep messages every time we exchange because it's just who I am.
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I can't not tell you how much I've loved you from afar for so long.
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And now to be a friend and to call you family and someone that since I've met I feel like I've known you like for lifetimes.
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It does feel that way and you've been so instrumental in my growth and you know, we just really vibe in some places that you can't really share with everybody, you know, just where you're willing to walk with me on my spiritual path and I I just appreciate you for that.
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You and your beautiful wife. Yes, I know.
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I wish she was here today.
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She's in London Oh, okay. tomorrow. Got it.
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And so yeah, she would have loved to see you.
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When I told her you were coming on today, she was very happy.
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Yeah, you've you've really I still remember that day when you surprised her of being on the show. Oh, yeah.
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Because I I just want to start there because so so I met Jada when I was asked by Facebook to host the launch of Red Table Talk and we met behind the scenes for a few moments and that became this conversation that connected us. Yes.
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And then we went on and I mean Red Table Talk is just phenomenal. We all love it.
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We're so happy you're doing it.
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I want to dive into that.
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But then we come to the show and literally that whole morning my wife's like, "What should I wear?"
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And I'm like, "You're not even going to be on camera."
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Like I was just like Jada's interview like I was like, "I'm going on camera.
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You're not going to I did that whole man thing, right?"
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And I was just like, "You're not even going to be on camera."
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I was like, "Why are you worrying so much?" Right.
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And we get there and then you're like you you know, you and your team are like, "Well, you should both do it."
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Yeah, I was like, "You have to.
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You got to come You got to come on."
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Yeah, I'm holding my head in my hands.
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Anyway, but you've always been so loving to both of us and we've learned so much from you and the family and anyway, thank you for being here.
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But I want to start off with talking about your childhood. Okay.
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Because we've talked about it a bit before as well and I want to hear about what was so formative about your childhood into who you are today.
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What are the experiences that form formed the parts that you love, formed the parts that you're working through, formed the parts that you're editing, you know? Let's start there.
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It's so funny because the components of my childhood um and the experiences that I had in my childhood that have formed what I love are also the same experiences that have formed the characteristics within me that aren't so pretty. Right?
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So I had a lot of adversity during my childhood, you know?
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And my mother was a heroin addict and my father was an addict, alcoholic, criminal as he would describe himself.
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And um so I did a lot of growing up um having to teach myself uh let's say uh the ways of the world were kind of thrown at me in the streets of Baltimore. You know what I mean?
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And um I think that because I had uh such independence at such a young age, I really um I could really see who I was and who I wasn't, right?
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There were a lot of strengths I was able to acquire at a very young age, a lot of what we would call motherwit.
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You know what I'm saying?
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It's like that knowledge that you don't learn in, you know, the textbooks at at school, but through life, right?
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And so I would say that I got prepared for a lot of things at an early age, you know, that at at a at point of time in my life, um it I didn't necessarily see it as a gift.
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So, I went through a lot of depression, um in my early 20s.
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Um and just feeling like life isn't supposed to be this hard. Yeah.
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You know what I'm saying?
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And like, yeah, you know, and I really as life has gone on, I just realized, "Mm, that's kind of what life is."
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And that you're not unique. Yeah.
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You know, that people are suffering everywhere.
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Everybody has a story, you know, and then I was able to take my life experiences and find the good in it, which was that's the very thing that made it possible for me to come to LA by myself at the age of 18. Yeah.
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And work out a career for myself and and craft a life for myself. Yes. You know what I mean?
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But I I I'm I have been working through and I'm still working through, um you know, and understanding that life is not an enemy.
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You know, and that adversity is not meant to steal things from you.
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It is actually meant to help you find the things within you that help you find the giant within, actually. Yeah.
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You know, but that and just learning how to lay down my warrior.
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You know, the Yeah, man, yeah, that's just yeah, that's that's been a consistent struggle, you know, because as soon as I'm in trouble, as soon as I feel hurt, the first place I go to is fight. Right. Right?
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And so, yeah, I've had to really learn how to, uh lay down that warrior and even in my within the biggest hurts. Mhm.
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Sit with that pain with an open heart. Mhm. And that is woo Jay. That's the hardest.
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Yeah, we already like You know. Yeah. Woo.
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Yeah, so that that's you know I I I love the warrior within me. Yes.
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And specifically the spiritual warrior that has you know come out of my life experiences.
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But that street warrior That street warrior is a humdinger.
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You know and and and she can be cruel and she can be um deeply unloving. Yeah. You know what I mean?
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And so that that that's the shadow area within myself that I am at least now far more conscious of than I've ever been. Yeah.
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And even if she comes out I can grab her quick before she's she to remember Right. You know what I mean?
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And so you know it's all about just getting to those deeper levels of consciousness.
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Um you know you you you might not necessarily be able to dissolve those um aspects of your you know shadow as quickly as you want. Mhm.
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But as long as you're you know as I get more and more conscious of those uh shadow aspects um I can just get the reins of it a bit faster and replace it with Absolutely.
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something that's closer to love. Yeah.
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You know but I also realize that I'm I think one of the biggest realizations that I've made is that I'm actually learning how to love. Mhm.
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I think that a lot of us yeah.
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Both yourself and others. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
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This this is Jada everyone.
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this is, you know, you have a you have a show where you interview people and I'm so glad that we get the the tables have turned today.
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There's no table, but the tables have turned today.
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And I'm so glad that we get to hear you.
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Like just in 5 minutes you've basically given us a whole thesis on on how to grow in our lives.
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I'm so glad we get to just hear you talk.
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I'm just listening today.
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I'm like I just want to listen because the world needs this and and it needs to hear you say. You're so kind.
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You're so patient with everyone else. It's like, yeah. So. Thank you, Jaden.
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I I want to dive into, you know, I was just saying that you're so patient when I when when I when you interviewed me or whenever I watch any of your interviews, you're just you're such a listener.
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And the best quality I take away from you, Willow, and Adrian from that day was just you three are like the best listeners.
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You you engage people in a way that makes them find stuff they didn't even know that was in them. Right.
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And and my only hope and I'm I'm asking you to bless me to do this.
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I'm trying to do the same back for you today.
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You always do, don't you?
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NO, BUT YOU JUST CUZ WE IN FRONT OF CAMERAS TODAY. NO, I mean seriously. Yeah, but I mean it. I really mean it.
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But let's dive into what you said because let's I mean there's tons of stuff I want to from what you just said. Life is not the enemy. Yeah.
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Such a powerful statement. Yeah.
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I feel like from what you just said you went through with your mother and your father.
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There are people who are listening who have similar experiences.
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There are people who have no idea what that feels like.
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But all of us in our own way, like you said, feel life is the enemy at some point. Yes.
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How did you face that feeling that life is the enemy?
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How do you face that in the first instance?
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You've talked about the transformation, but when you first get a grips with that, how did you grapple with that?
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I really started coming outside of myself and looking at the world and having conversations with people about their life.
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And realizing I wasn't the only one that was hurting. Mhm, so powerful. You know what I mean?
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In that mostly everybody you're that you'll meet is hurting at some capacity. But hurt is hurt.
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So everybody's trying to measure You don't hurt as much as You know, hurt is hurt.
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And so once I realized that that was the thing that we had in common, you know, that And and that's not the only thing we have in common, but that's usually you know, those trauma patterns are usually the things that we run into fiercely that that create more suffering and more conflict between people, right? Mhm.
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And so I really started looking at that and realizing, oh, wait a minute. Hold it. Hold it. Hold it.
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Okay, now you have to get out of your ego.
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You have to stop thinking that you're so special that you're the only one that hurts this way. Yeah.
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Because that's ego on the other side.
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I think that You know what I mean?
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Yes, that's exactly what I mean.
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Yeah, and I like I had to really confront how egotistical I was in my martyrdom. Yes, thank you. We Right.
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We never really talk about that side of ego.
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We always look at the boisterous, you know, full of themselves kind of, but that other spectrum of the ego that to me can be a bit more insidious. Mhm.
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Because it's not it's not recognized in the same way as how we identify Yes. ego.
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And when I came upon that one, and I mean fiercely egotistical and oh, how I suffer and no one suffers like me. It was like all of that.
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And bringing more suffering into my life in order to prove and to build on that martyrdom. Wow.
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And I mean I was floored.
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I was floored in that discovery of myself and that face of my ego that had really taken the lead in of my life. Yeah.
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I love the way you just put that.
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I think I completely agree because the ego wants to be the most anything.
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So we look at the ego like you were saying, we look at the ego as like oh I'm the best at this. Right.
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I'm the most accomplished. Right.
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But then on the flip side, what you're talking about which is the insidious as you said ego, it's the I'm the most pain. Yes. I'm the most hurt.
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I've had the most wrong done to me. Yes.
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And so exactly, it's that ego just pushing it aside and unfortunately like you said because we don't think of that as ego. Right.
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We actually and and what you said which which really just blew my mind now.
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You're like actually we go and collect more pain to prove that we are the most pain. That was my life. That's crazy.
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And you put it that's exactly what it is. Crazy.
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I didn't mean to say about you.
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I'm not saying about you. I'm saying about myself. No, crazy.
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You can call me crazy any day Jay because it's you know it it it is a level of insanity.
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And I had to really look at that. Yeah, me too.
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You know and I I had to um make a lot of changes in my life and have the courage to make those changes. Yeah.
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Cuz you know more than anybody it's not easy to grapple with those ideas and energies within. Absolutely. Yeah.
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And this that's beautiful.
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The second thing that really stood out when you were when you were sharing the earlier notes with us, when you said you had to lay down the warrior.
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And when you say that, what I hear is I hear so many people thinking like they're fighting for justice.
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But they're fighting for justice for themselves.
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We're fighting for what we think is right.
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We're fighting for what we believe is right.
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And then when you say I have to lay down that warrior that always wants to fight and get going and that sounds like a very tough thing to do again because everything about you when you're fighting feels like you're doing what's right.
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Like I hear that so often when people are like, "But I know I'm right and I know they're wrong."
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And it's like we know we're like so it's so factual in our head. Yeah.
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But you're actually talking about actually laying down the warrior is giving you more peace.
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So tell us about that process.
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Yeah, and it's not even let me tell you what's deep about that inner warrior when it comes to specifically dealing with relationships that are close to you. Mhm.
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You know, whether they're friendships, whether they're marriages, whether they're a parent-child relationships, right?
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For someone like me who's dealt with a lot of loss and heartbreak in my life one of the things that I did in order to survive it was to create this wall and kind of this invincibility. Mhm. That warrior, right? That comes and goes. You can't take me out. Mhm. So bring it. Right?
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So now when you are confronted with heartbreak with someone who you say you love and the warrior wants to come and go, "What's up?" "What you got?" Yeah.
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So that's not loving and it's surely not going to create more love. Mhm.
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But, it's been the defense mechanism that's protected me from the wolves, the bears on the street. Yeah.
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Where I grew up, you weren't allowed to be open and loving. Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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You know, it's like that'll get you killed, basically.
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What you had to be was sly, Mhm.
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slick, you know what I'm saying?
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You had to have one up on everybody else. Right?
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And so, Such a tough way is.
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And you you definitely, you know, you you also have to, in order to protect yourself, in the war zones that I grew up in, it's like, you know, there's a little killer that's inside of you. Mhm.
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You know what I'm saying?
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And so, all of these um aspects of my personality that I've been nurtured, and even coming out to LA at a young age and dealing with all these all these suit what I call pseudo wolves. Yeah.
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They're not They're not even there.
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I'm like, I I Please, right?
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Um but yet and still having to have that killer instinct on point. Mhm. You know?
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And that's kind of where Will and I connected. Yeah. That inner killer. Yeah.
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You know what I'm saying?
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It's like, we know how to fight. You know what I mean?
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And so, um so then, when it's time for he and I to actually have some openness, right?
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Because of what we've nurtured. Yeah.
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And I have a lot of people around me that I have relationships with that come from those kind of backgrounds, environments, and it makes it very difficult to get to loving, kind, compassionate, gentle spaces within and without. Right?
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And so even learning to have that cuz that killer instinct will turn on you.
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And that's what you don't realize.
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It's like you think you're protecting yourself from other people and from the world, but at the end of the day you're shutting yourself from yourself. Wow. Right?
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And to the point you don't know you you you're not even connected to your soul, your heart, your like And when when I had to wake up and out of that fog of how I had been operating and my heart and spirit weren't actually in the lead.
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That is such a hard confront. Yeah.
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When you have to look at the things within yourself that don't confirm who you thought you were. Yeah.
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And then you have to look at how it's affected people you actually care about. But that's the work. Yeah. That's the work.
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But it's beautiful that you could see it and separate it. Yeah.
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Cuz I think half the time the challenge is people just see it as them. It's not. Right?
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Like that's the thing of like I am just this and like if you had just accepted you're like oh I'm just Baltimore, I'm just street, I'm just this is just who I am. Yeah, no.
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And and I can't change it because it's who my conditioning is, but that's what I'm saying like it's it takes such a moment to be able to separate and go wait a minute I can either lead from the heart, can lead from this, or I can be led by whatever it is, right? Like the opposite.
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I think it was really my I guess when I turned 40, I really got serious about my spiritual practices and and and my spiritual connection.
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I always knew that there was a power higher than me. But I wasn't connected. Mhm.
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So it's different knowing Mhm.
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that there's a higher power and then actually taking the time to cultivate that relationship.
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You and I have talked a lot about that. Yes.
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And once I started really cultivating and that that takes such a discipline and and such a deep trust, right?
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Um cultivating that relationship with that higher source.
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And started to realize the beauty and the depth of love that was in that that's in that source.
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I said, "Well, this is what I am." Yeah.
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Because this is where I'm This is what I'm made from. Yes. Yes.
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All this other stuff has been acquired. Wow.
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Yeah, this is actually where I'm from. Right.
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This is actually This is This is it. think I'm from this.
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But I think that I'm of Baltimore. No, no, no, no, no. I'm of the source. Yeah. Right?
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And so I've been stepping towards you know shedding all the ideas of what I believe that I am.
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So it's just been a lot of ego death. Mhm.
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You know, it's a constant ego death.
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I feel like every day Yeah.
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some aspect of myself is dying.
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And that I completely understand, you know, why some people just choose not to do it.
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Yeah, because it's almost like a part of you mourns every time even a bad part dies. Right?
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It's like Cuz they're good friends. Yeah, exactly. Believe it or not.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. They feel close. Yes.
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They feel close because it's been a part of you for 10, 20, 30, 40 years, whatever it is.
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And so, every time it dies, you feel like you've lost a part of who you are. Yes.
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But we're saying that it's not really you. Yeah. Yeah.
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You know, so it's almost like you have to send off those aspects of yourself with And one of the things that I've learned You got to love those shadows. You got to love them.
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They might I like you know, it's like Those shadow pieces got me. They helped me survive.
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Maybe not at the highest level. But I'm here. Yeah.
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And you know, you just send them off with thank yous.
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You know, for this next part I I just don't need that, but thank you for all of it.
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The good, the bad, the the challenging, the the you know, the joyous.
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Well, I just for all of it.
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And so, I feel like in the bigger scope of the spiritual spectrum when we can embrace our own shadow it decreases, it dissipates the that like negative energy that's put into shadow, right? Yes, yes, absolutely. Yeah.
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So, ultimately, in the collective shadow, we can help Yes. bring light. Yeah.
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You know, as we're dealing with our own personal shadows.
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Thank you so much for that.
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That the thank yous to your shadows.
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Like I love to your shadows.
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That is so powerful because I feel like if you try and drop something out of haste Yeah.
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Or out of like resentment, you just pick it back up as quickly. You do.
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Because you don't really detach.
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And so, when that's so powerful, thank you for that.
25:09
Like, just that just as simply as you put it of just just love your shadows and love them to leave. Right?
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Like, love them as they leave.
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Not not this like not this like resentment like, "Oh, I don't need you anymore. Get out of here."
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Like, that that kind of warrior again thinking that thinking that you're protecting yourself, but actually you're just making it easy for them to creep back in.
25:31
That aversion is just Yeah, is just as you know, I've Listen, I've learned that any extreme You know, I I was the queen of extremes. The queen of extremes. I love that. of extremes.
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And now I'm trying to be the queen of neutrality. Ooh, I like it. Yeah.
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And so, yeah, no no big highs, no big lows, you know, because it's all on each on each side is pitfalls. Yes. You know?
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And so, um you know, for me to just I'm I'm always trying to uh find that mental place for right perception. You know?
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So, any extreme gets us into false ideas of some kind. Yes. Yeah. It's so true. It is. It is so true. You're so right.
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Because that in in the Gita it said that attachment and aversion are two sides of the same coin. Yeah. So Gita is my book.
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Yeah, yeah, I know, I know. It's my book, too. That's right. Yeah. It's my book, too. Yeah.
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Uh it's Yeah, and and that that statement is so powerful because we think, "Oh, those who are attached are going down the wrong path."
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But, it's also those who are falsely averse uh or what sometimes the books call it as monkey renunciation. Yeah. Right?
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Like, a monkey just like playfully will say, "I don't need that banana. I don't need that."
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But really in its heart it's like craving it. Right.
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And it pulls it back into its life.
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So, yeah, that's a really It's a tricky dance. dance. That's I like that. But I like that word.
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Cuz when you take see it as a dance It is. It's a dance.
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That's all love it is, you know?
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I mean Just realizing that, you know, the the the other thing you know, the we're having this conversation days after you know, the tragic death of Kobe and the feeling and the idea of impermanence is absolutely terrifying.
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And the ego and I even went through this after hearing about Kobe and having certain situations in my life and realizing how the ego just came in and shut me down.
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People were talking about how they were opening up.
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And what happened and what I realized is now having in my life right now having to deal with the idea of impermanence, how So, not only do you have to walk in this life with openness but knowing that there's no ground underneath you.
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And the way in which the ego wants it to to be. Yeah.
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So as soon as that happened my ego came in and said, "We got to get control." Yeah. We got to get control.
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Just like shocked into being.
28:32
Get shocked into get control. Yeah. And I was like, "Oh."
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But it was such It was like it just showed me that next level of purification that needs to happen within and the acceptance of impermanence and knowing that I don't have the ground under my feet in the way in which my ego wants, but what I have learned is that the ground under my feet is that of a higher source.
29:04
That's the only ground to walk on. It's the only ground. safe ground.
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It's the only safe ground.
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It's the only thing that one can truly rely on. Mhm.
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And that our human interactions are for our lessons. Yeah.
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Not for reliability in that way.
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You know, if you come across relationships and people that you can rely on 50% of the time, 60% of the time, 70% that's a win. Yeah, it's huge. It's huge. It's huge.
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And be SO GRATEFUL FOR THAT.
29:37
YES, AND I THINK that often times we come into these false ideas of what our human relating is supposed to be about. Ah, yeah. Tell us about that. Okay.
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Yeah, tell us about that.
29:51
This is probably one a lot of people not going to want to hear.
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I think it's good I think the more we talk about and this is where you're you're an expert this and you do it out of compassion.
29:59
It's like we're talking about these things as people who who are going through it too.
30:06
Like as in you know, we've always talked about it in that way.
30:07
Like when you're saying all of this I'm like oh, I did that. I did that. I did that. I do that. I still do that.
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Like you know, it's it's it's not coming from a place.
30:14
So yeah, tell us from that place where So from that place and just recognizing that what I've learned I've learned this from my own faults and where I think I've shown up for people or you know, um or where I failed people, you know, um and realizing in in my own relating with people that relationships are simply there to show us ourselves. Well, yeah.
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And I think a lot of times we go into relationships, we you know, we gravitate to friends or we gravitate to lovers or husbands or wives or what have you. Mhm.
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And we're like, this person is supposed to know how to love me. Yes. Oh, well. Right?
31:14
And so when the inevitable Mhm.
31:17
disappointment comes up Inevitably. Inevitably.
31:24
you know, of how this person has failed you, how this person has hurt you, how this person has betrayed you, how this person hasn't been the most integrous.
31:32
We could go on and on and on, right?
31:36
Now, we are taking it personally and we're looking at something is wrong with me or something is wrong with them, but something's wrong. Yes. Right? Yeah.
31:48
Once again the ability to lay the ego down Yeah.
31:55
and look at the mirror right?
31:59
And say, what is this showing me about myself? Mhm. So hard to hear.
32:01
It's so hard to do cuz at the end of the day, no matter what's happening.
32:07
Now and now I'm not talking about people who've been victimized in a certain manner, right?
32:13
I'm I'm talking about Right.
32:13
I'm talking about um consensual relationships that go awry. Yes.
32:22
No matter what I've had to realize that no matter what circumstance I'm in and no matter what's happened I have to take responsibility.
32:35
This is going to help a lot of people pushing through that. Yeah, that's a hard one. Yeah, it is hard.
32:41
Like and I guess it's even harder when you have kids.
32:43
I think one of the most difficult aspects of in in my history of relating um in those moments that I want to hang on to victim or I want to hang on to blame.
33:00
I would have that moment where I had to look at the situation and go well, you let this into your life. So, why? Yeah.
33:07
And let's look at that because at the end of the day, Jaden, that's all you have control over. Yes. Right?
33:17
So, when I had to start looking at how I was relating to people, how I was being affected, and how I was affecting them but then making the choice to only look at my part Yeah. Ooh, Jay Jay.
33:34
Well, that responsibility That level of responsibility but what it reveals to you about why you're making the choices that you're making and inviting certain dynamics and people into your life cuz at the end of the day, it's your invite. Wow, yes.
33:56
It's you invite them into your life. You invited it. You chose it.
33:59
So, now you have to look at the why because that same saying of nobody can do to you what you don't allow. Yes, absolutely. Mhm.
34:16
Well, when I tell you that's a painful one to have to because first of all, it goes against everything we've been taught about what love is supposed to look like, what romantic love is, right? Yeah.
34:30
It's like I don't need to look at me. No.
34:33
He's the one that went out and did da da da da da. Yeah. Yeah, but you chose him. So, LET'S TALK ABOUT IT. SO, WELL PUT. IT WAS YOUR INVITE. It's like your invite.
34:44
if someone comes to a party at your house Right.
34:47
and you didn't like how they behaved.
34:49
You could be upset with them or you could be like, but I sent them the invite, right?
34:53
Like and that's why I love the word invite.
34:56
Cuz it's the same thing, but you've got to look at the fact I invited them.
34:57
I'm the one who told them to come.
34:58
And maybe in the back of your head you even knew that they would probably do something like that, but you still invited them, whether it was an obligation, expectation, whether it was lust, whether it whatever it was that Yes, and that part where you have to really look at is like I invited this person in because of blah blah blah blah blah.
35:17
And then when you look at why they were invited in the first place, then you realize why the circumstance is what it is.
35:29
But I realized in my own life if I wasn't willing to take responsibility for that, my life would not change. 100%.
35:36
And we stay stuck in certain patterns when we're not willing to look at ourselves. Yeah. Yeah. It's a her piece.
35:49
Yeah, that is that's but that's I mean that is the best way I've ever heard it being put.
35:55
Because I think we we hear that self-reflection piece a lot, but it's it's really that where you've just put the like the magnifying glass on of just it's your invite. You made the choice. You selected it.
36:05
When you realize why you did that, that's what's your actual enemy.
36:10
Like that's what you're actually up against. Yeah.
36:12
You're not up against that person.
36:14
You're up against this conditioning or habit or pattern Yes.
36:19
that is making you choose that type of a person in your life.
36:22
And where it's never the person.
36:22
That's the thing I realized. Yeah. It's always me. Yeah. It's always me. And I can make a choice.
36:36
And what I realize is that that's self-love. That's real self-love. That's real self-love.
36:41
It's not just When we can have the love love ourselves enough to have the courage to look at ourselves and be honest look at our patterns look at our creates and then make the changes.
37:01
Have the courage then to make the changes that we need that reflect a more loving embrace of ourselves. Nobody can do that.
37:17
I don't care how much they love you.
37:19
Now, what we can do is be responsible enough to bring people in our lives who do um who assist in nourishing Yeah.
37:31
that self-love, but people can't create it.
37:33
And I think a lot of times we try to look for relationships that buoy us up. Ah.
37:37
Relationships that confirm ideas of what we think we are. Mm. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.
37:49
And we rely on people to confirm us. Yeah. Yeah.
37:53
Versus relying on ourselves and the self-love patterns that we have the courage to create to confirm us. Absolutely. Absolutely.
38:11
And I've heard you say that that actually when you surrounded yourself with people who are honest with you Yes.
38:18
that that's what really helped. Right?
38:21
Because if you're always surrounding yourself with yes people or confirmation people, then you're just creating that bubble of confirmation. Yeah.
38:28
But but you actually were saying that how but how do we There's two things there because I find like attracting people to be honest with you requires two things.
38:38
One is that you're ready. Yes. Right?
38:41
We all say like I want real feedback, right?
38:43
But it's like do I really want real feedback?
38:45
Like how And and that's why you've got to ask that the people that you really want it from.
38:51
Like you can't just throw that around.
38:53
Like you don't just go out on the streets and go give me feedback, right?
38:56
But but one thing is you've got to be ready for honesty.
38:59
And the second thing is you've got to be able to give honesty to others and yourself, too.
39:03
Because if you're struggling to give honesty, then how do you think that person feels about giving it to you or to anyone?
39:09
And so we create this cycle of of this circle of dishonesty.
39:13
And even if it's not dishonesty, like we're not trying to lie to anyone or manipulate, it's just I'm just going to hide it and harbor it, right? Exactly.
39:20
Well, that that's a lot of what happens in relationships.
39:23
That people spend a lot of time figuring out how not to be found out. Yeah. Right?
39:30
So, whether it's like oh, I don't want this person to know, you know, this person really care about to know that I'm actually scared in this area.
39:37
I don't want my friend to see that uh I actually don't don't know what I'm doing.
39:44
What Whatever it is, you know what I mean?
39:46
We spend so much time masking. Yeah.
39:48
You know, feeling as though we need to be something. Mhm.
39:55
You know, one of the things that I will say about long-term relating um is that you do get worn down to a place where things can get so raw in the most beautiful way that there's just no more room for pretending and that you know each other so well you can't hide.
40:28
And then you come to a place in your relating where you go am I just going to leave this and then go someplace else, create another relationship where I can be more confirmed on what I'd rather see myself Yeah.
40:43
And create more of a buffer to hide that part of a buffer to hide it or am I going to stay in this and get to my true self? Wow.
40:55
And that's usually what the decision comes down to. Right?
41:01
And it's a hard It's hard.
41:04
confront and you know, even in when I see that people decide to go their separate ways, I go I get it. Yeah.
41:15
I get it cuz it's it is so excruciating.
41:22
You know, but if you can find the friendship and that's another thing you there's this friendship that could that blossoms. Mhm.
41:31
You know, that super, you know, just basically um exceeds whatever romantic ideals or you know I whatever fantasies that you had about your relationship. Right? Yeah.
41:50
And there's this this friendship and this this this spiritual partnership. Mhm.
41:56
And that starts to be created once you are willing to walk the landmines of the traumatized child together. Cuz that's all it is.
42:13
That's what it comes down to.
42:14
It's two traumatized Two traumatized kids trying to figure it out. Yeah.
42:18
What are they going to figure out?
42:20
And when you sit down and you go, "Okay, we going to walk this landmine together and then you might lose a couple limbs. You good with that?" They'll grow back. They'll grow back. You know what I mean?
42:30
We get We get to the other side.
42:32
They're going to grow back. You know what I mean? And they'll be better.
42:34
Yeah, and they'll be better. They'll be better.
42:36
They'll be stronger, you know?
42:37
But it it's Because and I think that's the challenge for so many people that and and I think this is not this is not mutually exclusive, but it's like I think feel I hear a lot of this and tell me if you feel the same way.
42:49
I hear a lot of one partner trying to go on this path Yeah. and one struggling. Yeah, it's always that. Right?
42:58
Like it's always kind of like that.
42:59
It's rarely that it's like, "Oh, here's two people."
43:01
And and you know, with me and Roddy it was very much like we did it we did some processing together, but we also did a lot of processing separately. have to.
43:10
even conscious that she was doing it.
43:12
Like I I didn't even know.
43:12
Like if I'm completely honest, I'm like there were times when we were just distant and working on stuff independently.
43:21
And then when we both figured out our own time, we came back in our own timing and continued to push forward.
43:24
And so but I find for a lot of people they they feel that they're trying.
43:31
They're trying to face themselves.
43:33
They're trying to take on those lessons, but then they're like trying to pull someone up. Right.
43:36
And and then they're like trying to get everyone through the landmine. Right.
43:40
And and it's kind of like it feels like a lot of pressure.
43:43
That that sounds like a hard place to be.
43:45
What's your thoughts on that?
43:45
Like what have been your realization?
43:46
I'm not looking for a solution or It's like what's been your reflection realization seeing people go through that, hearing that, and wanting to support and help them, too?
43:54
I would say that in relationships and when it comes to growth it's that seesaw. Mhm.
44:02
There times when you know, sometimes your partner is going to have to pull you. Yes.
44:11
Sometimes you got to pull your partner.
44:12
Sometimes you do have to go your separate ways.
44:15
And figure out a whole lot of things cuz the first thing you have to figure out is who you want to be. Definitely. Who do you want to be? Definitely.
44:23
That's what it comes down to.
44:23
That's what it comes down to.
44:24
What kind of life do you want to have? Who do you want to be? Yeah.
44:27
And then you can actually communicate that. Right.
44:30
the time we're just expecting people to be mind readers. Yeah.
44:32
I felt like that for so long.
44:34
I just wanted people because and it was because my mom could always read my mind.
44:38
And this is what really helped me.
44:40
I was just started to look at and and this is something that really helped me which I hope it helps anyone who's listening or watching right now.
44:45
Like I sat there and I was like, "What do I emulate that my parents did with me that I am now projecting onto my wife or my partner, whoever it is?"
44:58
And when I started to do that, I started to see all the good things and all these things that I don't want to be, but I'm like, "Oh, because my mom could always predict and read my mind when I was young, I always expected my partner to be able to do that same thing." Right.
45:14
With no information, with no communication, with no with no help from me, they should just know. And I had the opposite. Right.
45:21
I wanted to have that mirroring from my parents.
45:24
And because I didn't have it, I expected it from Will. Right.
45:29
And it's so we end up doing the same THE SAME THING WHETHER YOU HAVE IT OR WHETHER YOU DON'T. YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?
45:33
AND SO the it it it comes down to that like us coming out of our, you know, uh What do you call it?
45:44
That the the the the child Traumatized child. Yeah.
45:46
It's your it's traumatized child or you know, uh in your case, you know, it you had a you actually had an experience that you were trying to Recreate. Right. Repeat, you know.
46:01
And so a beautiful one at that. Yeah. And But a rare one, too. Like a hard to predict.
46:06
Like how can I just, you know, it's so you can't just be like You got You can't expect anyone to live up to that.
46:12
You know, it's And And And also, it's like what are you expecting that person to live up to? Why? Right.
46:18
But you know that's a part of all the the the ideas of romanticism, too.
46:22
That when somebody really loves you, they know. They know. know. know.
46:31
And if they don't know, then it's not love. Exactly. THAT'S NOT TRUE.
46:33
IT'S NOT TRUE, but so many of us operate off of that idea.
46:38
Movies, media, and music.
46:41
Yes, it's just uh They just It's It's a lot of fantasy. Yeah.
46:46
That's such a great point. You so expect it.
46:48
You expect them to know, and you're like And And this magic fairy dust of them knowing.
46:55
And And then you put it all on that.
46:55
So, even if someone treats you really badly, but they knew you knew what gift you wanted.
47:00
They knew what you wanted to do on your birthday.
47:02
You take that as this the thing, even if they treat you like crap crap in between. Yeah, it gets messy.
47:09
You've defined for us so many words today.
47:11
I feel like you've really given us either defined or you've you've deeply taken us to the You've really taken us to the depths of so many words today. Like genuinely.
47:23
Like with when we talk about ego, we talk about self-love.
47:25
What is your And you asked me this, too, and I'm intrigued by yours.
47:29
What is your most current, and I say most current because we're trying to evolve.
47:33
What's like your most current definition and understanding of love?
47:39
Like what Where Where is that at right now?
47:41
And And how is your viewpoint of where it is?
47:44
Well, I can tell you probably more clearly what I know love isn't. Let's start there.
47:49
It's a good place to start.
47:51
Yeah, because I'm still In all honesty, Jay, I'm still trying to figure out what love is. Yeah, me too.
48:00
Yeah, you know, and I think it's a journey and I think that right now where I've started is self-love. You know.
48:09
And like on the deepest, most excruciating level ever, right?
48:14
But I what I'm very clear about is that I have no love to offer anyone if I don't love myself. Yeah.
48:19
And I'm talking about on a very deep level, right?
48:22
Um through and through because I just got to a place where I wanted to um heal myself so that I have that to offer instead of all my trauma.
48:37
I'm tired of hurting people. Mhm.
48:41
And that all comes from um my traumas.
48:48
And so I was I've made it a point to just do some really deep healing cuz for this next part of my life I just I I want to leave a legacy of love. You know what I mean?
49:00
Um and so what I what I have realized love is not is uh romanticism. Yeah.
49:09
When I tell you I've thrown that out the window. I'm like, that ain't it. Yep. Right? Yeah.
49:17
I don't want any parts of it.
49:20
Yeah, the false, the fake, the magnified.
49:22
false, magnified, projected, I need you to be this I don't want it.
49:32
Um and so what I'm what I'm looking to do you know, I'm in the process of learning to love myself and love others and I know that true love is not unkind.
49:49
I know that true love is compassionate.
49:52
True love is not always easy. That's for sure. Right? But it's not cruel. Mhm. And ego has no place. Mhm.
50:07
So, that's what I know it's not. Love that. Right? Yeah.
50:10
Um and what I do know also, and this is just me, I feel as though true love has to go from here to here. To there. Mhm.
50:24
So, it's actually that that higher source it has to come from my connection to my connection through the higher source Back. Back.
50:42
Cuz this right here I'll mess it up every time. Believe it. Believe it.
50:48
I'll mess it UP EVERY TIME. YEAH.
50:48
AND IT'S AND it's not in Like it's like uh It's just It's It's And I I think it's a brilliant design. Yeah. Of the highest. Yeah.
50:57
You want to love, you better come know me. Yeah.
51:03
You really want to love somebody, you really want to know yourself, really want to love yourself, you better come know me. Yeah. You can try this. Yeah.
51:09
You can try acquiring all these things and Oh, I'll give you all THE RICHES YOU WANT.
51:14
OH, you can have all that. See if it buys you love.
51:19
See if it gives you the love you're looking for. Mhm. And it doesn't. It's a brilliant design. Mhm.
51:30
And masterful because it works for anyone and everyone.
51:32
That's when you know it's a design.
51:34
Like I love that you I've never heard it put that way, but you've really when you describe it as a design, almost like a law Yes. It's like a law. It's a law. It's a law.
51:45
And so, that law is so When you think of it as a law, you just realize that there is no like because I feel like when when you first fall in love Yeah.
51:55
you you think you're the exception. You do.
51:59
Like there is no couple who does not think that they are the exception, me included. Yes, me included.
52:03
Yeah, when I first got married I was just like yeah, I'm the exception.
52:06
You know, like I'm like I'm like you know, like my ego's like really proud.
52:10
Like I'm like yeah, I did it differently. I got it Right. My friends got it wrong.
52:13
I'm going to get it right. You know, that feeling. Yeah.
52:15
Then you get into it and you're like oh, okay. Because it's a law. It is.
52:19
It's not It doesn't matter who you are.
52:21
It doesn't matter how evolved you think you are.
52:23
It doesn't matter how spiritual you think you are.
52:26
Like if you think you are all those things, then you've missed the whole law.
52:29
You missed the whole cone. You Yes, that's it. You've missed it. Yeah, you missed it.
52:36
And and I love that you've said it's designed and it's law.
52:40
When when we look at those language, it's just so clear.
52:42
Like it's designed this way.
52:44
Don't try and be that one person who breaks that design or avoids it.
52:48
It doesn't work like that.
52:50
That's the ego and the arrogance that comes with it.
52:53
Thinking I can do better.
52:54
I can do better and you know, I know better.
52:56
I'm smarter than and then you know, all those kind of romantic feelings.
53:00
They're so powerful and so strong that you know, you it makes you feel like you've reached a height that is beyond what it actually is. Yeah.
53:13
It's actually not It's a heightened state that's not in the highest ranks of love. Yeah.
53:20
It's actually in the in a pretty low rank.
53:26
You know, once you really get into it, you know.
53:28
And how have you changed that imagery?
53:30
Because I feel like with you and you know, I recently you were in Vietnam.
53:34
You know, I know that you travel spiritually.
53:36
I know we want to go to India together.
53:37
Like there's just you've started crafting your life in a way where your imagery is changing.
53:45
What I mean by that is like we have like when when we hear the word love, we have a mental picture based on movies, media, music.
53:52
When you have a when you think of romance, you have a mental picture on what it looks like because of movies, media, music.
53:59
Like we have these mental pictures, but you've been changing where you visit, what you read, who you spend time with.
54:04
Like you've it's not just like you're just you're not just thinking about this stuff. No.
54:08
My point is like you're making a real effort to travel, but also travel internally with books, with listening, with teachers, whatever it may be to to go there.
54:19
It's not just like you don't you can't just start thinking this and then it happens if that makes sense. Yeah. Does that make sense? It makes a lot of sense. Yeah.
54:25
Tell me about any experiences that you've had where you've you've traveled or you've been that have just left like a or even and it could be traveled through a book.
54:34
Like anything that had a left a big impression on you where there there was something which gave you more faith in what you're saying that gave you even more strength in what you're saying about how love goes up and then back. If that makes sense.
54:50
It makes all the sense in the world.
54:53
And I would say my deepest travel has been in my bedroom in meditation. Mhm.
55:07
You know, meditation people think about it in in really lofty terms, right?
55:13
So, I'll I'm going to take meditation out for a minute and just say in my bedroom in stillness. Love it.
55:22
Cuz if you can just be still, right?
55:25
And in stillness is where I learned to have a very intimate relationship with myself.
55:32
And a very intimate relationship with the higher source. Right?
55:37
In those moments when I'm in a deep painful struggle and I have to sit in the fire of that pain Mhm.
55:52
and I have to look at what's coming up why it's coming up and just have the patience to sit with myself and eventually that higher source comes in with an embrace of some kind Mhm.
56:16
that helps me understand why I am where I am and helps me see what I need to change within whatever trauma pattern within that I need to change Mhm.
56:34
in order to dissolve a cycle that I'm in, a cycle that I'm trying to get out of, or or a pain that I'm in.
56:43
Usually when I'm I realize if I'm in a enormous amount of pain of some kind, then I have a false belief. Mhm.
56:53
So I sit in stillness and I listen until I can recognize the false belief.
56:59
And it may not come in one sitting. Right?
57:01
It might take two, it might take three.
57:05
But it always comes because once the universe knows your intention Mhm. you know what I mean?
57:11
And what you're in search for, honestly what you're in search for the universe gives you the answers. Right?
57:20
And so that's been my biggest travel is inward.
57:26
That's awesome because that's available to everyone. Yes.
57:30
That's what I love about it.
57:30
As soon as you said that, I was like, it's available to each and every one of us.
57:35
It's not about going You don't need to go anywhere.
57:37
And I I've often said, you know, like I've often said like a monk is simply a traveler, except the journey's within. Yeah. the real travel. That's the real travel.
57:47
need to And And what you just said so beautifully about stillness and and the way you describe it and what you were saying that if I You just said if I You said if I'm experiencing any pain, it's because of a belief. Yes. Right?
58:01
It's because of a belief that I have. And that's so powerful.
58:03
Like that is so profound.
58:06
And And when you went a step further, it's like it has to be what you said about intention with the universe, it has to be a request, not a demand.
58:17
Usually, our question to the universe is not a question, it's rhetorical.
58:19
It's like "Why is this happening to me?" Right. That's not stillness.
58:24
That's not what you're saying.
58:25
It's not You're not You know, when you're sitting there and you're just like, "Why is this happening to me? What's going on?
58:30
Like why am I Like that's not stillness. That's not a question.
58:33
A question is like "Where's this pain coming from?" Yes. Why?
58:39
"Why does this belief keep showing me? Show me." I'm all with Yes.
58:42
Like someone I was speaking to the other day, they they called it an innocent request.
58:46
Like they You know, it has to have that that intention of that innocent request. Yeah. Just exactly.
58:53
It's not like, "Tell me like No. It's got to now."
58:56
Because that's that energy that closes us.
58:59
It has to be the most The thing that I've realized in my journey is surrender. So true. Right?
59:10
And I'm only at a very elementary level of surrender, you know, and trying to get to uh I'm I'm every day, Jay, I'm I'm I'm I'm trying to deepen my vow.
59:27
You know, to um my heart to the heart of others to the highest um just trying to find those levels of surrender to bring me um the peace and the love within that I can share with others, you know.
59:48
And I think for me too, I've learned that love is not red, it's blue. Tell me more. Love is really cool. Mhm.
59:57
It's all fiery and passionate, you know. Mhm.
1:00:00
It's like you can have moments of that, mhm, right?
1:00:03
You can have moments of that.
1:00:06
But if you expect your foundation love has to be calm gentle and it has to have a certain stillness in order to really penetrate Mhm.
1:00:25
in a way in which you can embrace all the beauty and all that's ugly as well.
1:00:38
And I think that people think love is supposed to just be beautiful and fluffy.
1:00:42
Well, when we get to true love, yes. Yeah, yeah. It is, all of it.
1:00:47
You can smile at it all, right?
1:00:53
That's what blue love gives you. Red love? All kinds of aversions. Yeah.
1:00:57
All kinds of no, not that, no, not uh-uh, you can't be that, uh-uh, that's not acceptable, uh-uh, it's got so many conditions. yeah.
1:01:06
You know, I say blue love is the unconditional love and that's where I'm trying to live. Yeah.
1:01:10
You know, and it's it's it's a headache getting there, you know, but that's one of the reasons why I'm looking forward to our trip to India. Yeah.
1:01:20
Um you know, I'm I'm going to put my good my big girl pants on because, you know, India is one of those Yeah, I know, but you know, India is one of those places that you got to embrace it all.
1:01:35
It's so it's a lot of suffering. I mean Yeah.
1:01:38
I have a very, very difficult time looking at and being confronted with suffering. Yeah. Definitely.
1:01:48
And India has a special kind of suffering. Right? Yeah.
1:01:52
And I am looking forward to that confront, you know, because it's going to be that next place within me to be able to that blue love I'm talking about. Mhm.
1:02:07
When you look at it and you understand that in the um in the what I call the spiritual ecosystem Yeah.
1:02:20
there can be no aversion. No. There can't.
1:02:22
You know, and so you know, just being able to embrace it, but it it it also has shown me that that's where my codependency comes from.
1:02:31
Always trying to prevent suffering. You know what I mean? And only to create it. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And only to create more. Yes. That is so interesting. Yep.
1:02:43
All of us wants to prevent suffering, but actually that is what ends up us creating more suffering.
1:02:47
Wow, that is so I never thought about it.
1:02:49
I've created a lot of suffering in my life Me, too. Yeah.
1:02:53
with people that I care about in trying to prevent their suffering. Only to create more. Oh. Yeah, it's a pain.
1:03:02
That that that's been a jagged pill to swallow for me.
1:03:06
You know, but it it's lessons, really painful lessons I've had to have in order to see my codependency. I couldn't see it. No. Yeah, there's no way.
1:03:15
How do you hurt people by helping people? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
1:03:18
Yeah, how does that make sense? It doesn't. Let me show you. Bow. Yeah. How does that feel? Yeah. I don't like it. There you go. You know?
1:03:26
And And that's the amazing thing about about India, what you were saying to to go back a few steps, it was like India is a place where nothing's hidden. Nothing.
1:03:35
You see someone being born on the street, and you'll see like people dying and suffering in the street.
1:03:42
It's like nothing's hidden. And it's extreme. extreme.
1:03:46
You have the You have You know. Yeah. Beauty. Yeah. And rich, and you know.
1:03:51
In India, everything is right there.
1:03:51
I mean, the extremes of it all. Yeah. You know what I mean?
1:03:57
And it it it's a lot for me. Yeah. It's a lot to have. Yeah.
1:04:03
You know, but it's it's it's where my lesson Correct. You know, you know.
1:04:09
trying to Everything we're trying to like MOONWALK AWAY FROM.
1:04:13
YOU KNOW, TO JUST be able to walk in it and have it and Yeah.
1:04:16
embrace it at the right time.
1:04:21
it's again the extreme point comes back to everything, because it's like you can push things too far, and you can do things too soon. Yeah.
1:04:27
And And the right time doesn't really exist like there's never going to be a right time, but it is, you know, you have to take that sense check, and the more self-aware you become, you know when you're stronger and readier and you're prepared.
1:04:38
And so, how have you done this with Willow and Jaden?
1:04:42
Because I think, you know, I've I've had the fortune of spending some time with Willow, and she's an old soul. She is. Like she's incredible.
1:04:49
And I've got to spend a little bit of time with Jaden, and I look at him more from afar and the work he's done, and I'm always telling you how impressed I am and how how incredible it is to see the work he's doing uh for the world. Yeah.
1:05:03
And And so for me, it's like how did you And And again, like And I know you don't see this way, and that's why I'm setting it up.
1:05:07
It's like I'm not asking this from the point of view of like, "Jaden, you're perfect, and how are the kids perfect?"
1:05:11
Like I'm not I'm not asking from that perspective because I know you wouldn't want that either.
1:05:14
I'm asking it from the perspective of like, when I met them, they seem like people who are curious.
1:05:20
They They are knowledgeable for sure far beyond their years, but they're experimenters, they're open, they're not they're not fearful, they're okay with getting it wrong.
1:05:30
You know, there's there's an openness there and there and a playfulness in a in a good way.
1:05:33
Uh and and I've just been deeply in And I wouldn't even use the word impressed.
1:05:37
I think I've just been so in awe when I'm with them.
1:05:41
And and just at the humans they are and how they connect and interact.
1:05:45
And and so I mean, of course, you should be very proud that they're just such unbelievable And that this is We haven't even talked about their talents.
1:05:51
But I'm talking about them as people. Yeah.
1:05:53
Like, how how have you tried and how have you and Will tried so much to give them the values of curiosity, of gratitude, of love, of kindness?
1:06:01
Because they're aspiring for these same things in their own ways.
1:06:05
But they're aspiring for these same They're not aspiring for other stuff. Yeah.
1:06:10
From the conversations I've had with them, like, they're aspiring for what we're talking about now in their own way, in their own time. Yeah.
1:06:17
Um I I I wish I could take credit for for all of that, but they they really came to me.
1:06:24
Um you know, they were given to me.
1:06:29
Let me Let me even change that.
1:06:33
I've been They were born through me. They aren't mine. Oh, beautiful. Yeah.
1:06:40
Um but they came like that. Yeah.
1:06:43
You know, I I would have to say a lot of that is the blessings of the highest, you know?
1:06:48
And um I will say that Will and I in regards to the foundation that we created for Jaden and Willow and I'll talk about Trey after.
1:07:01
Um One of the gifts that my mother gave me even in the chaos of addiction was that she stood out of my way. Yeah.
1:07:21
And I was allowed to self-actualize early. Right?
1:07:27
And try a lot of things out, you know, and and and and and you know win and fail by my own hand. Mhm.
1:07:39
And Will and I wanted to offer we offered that to Willow and Jaden as well.
1:07:44
They self-actualized Yeah. very early. Right?
1:07:50
Uh my my belief is the greatest gift you can give a child is to give them to themselves as fast as possible. Right? And that's scary, too.
1:08:02
It's For a parent with the control and the need trying to prevent suffering.
1:08:04
I mean, that's why I asked it straight off the cuff cuz I'm like It's been you know, and it's trying.
1:08:12
You know, it's been really trying. Mhm.
1:08:14
But you have to have the courage to be, you know, I I look at the um you know, those little bumpers that are on the in the bowling alley? Right? You put the bumpers up.
1:08:24
So, the ball's not going to fall in the gutter. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean?
1:08:27
You're not going to go that far. Exactly.
1:08:28
So, as they were growing up, just realizing how close the bumpers needed to be and as they got older, just being able to move them further. Mhm. Further. Mhm. Further.
1:08:40
Further until now they're just Now they fell out.
1:08:43
Now they can play without them. it. Yeah. You know what I mean?
1:08:46
And um trusting that the same the same source that that looked over me and has protected me is the same so there's Let me tell you something, there's no better parent And I got that first hand. Yeah.
1:09:06
So I I because of my experience, cuz I was really parented by Mhm.
1:09:08
when I didn't even know it. Yeah.
1:09:13
When I think back on my childhood and the kind of crap I was into, how many times how many situations I put myself in that would have me being here is a miracle and I'm not just saying that to be like on some whatever, right? That's real talk.
1:09:31
That goes for Will and I both, right?
1:09:36
And so when I started to look at my life in that way and how I've been protected and the harsh lessons I have been given, I was like, well the source is a fog better parent than I ever could be. Let me just fall back. Yeah.
1:09:55
And just, you know, we going to put these right, and put these bumpers up and just witness, you know, and and Witness.
1:10:01
the great thing is is that when things get real for them, they call us. Yeah. Of course. And they ask. Of course.
1:10:10
But they have that friendship with you.
1:10:12
They have a friendship with us both and and a real trust. Yeah.
1:10:16
A real trust and I'm so grateful for and I think it's because I never really treated my kids like children.
1:10:24
I didn't even know how to do that because that's how I was raised. Yeah.
1:10:31
You know, I I just didn't You didn't I didn't relate to them like that cuz I wasn't related to like that.
1:10:37
You know what I'm saying?
1:10:37
Like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:10:38
My father at seven told me, "Hey, listen.
1:10:42
I'm an addict, I'm an alcoholic, and I'm a criminal. I can't be your dad." Wow. At seven, right?
1:10:47
And so I had a lot of respect for that.
1:10:49
Cuz I was like, "Okay, I know what it Thank you." At seven. At seven. Seven. I was like, "Oh, okay. Okay, cool."
1:10:59
It wasn't like, "Oh, I can't have my dad." Right?
1:11:01
It was like, "I know where I Right." He verbalized it. He didn't play no games.
1:11:06
I And till my till today that's how I am.
1:11:11
If you could just be straight up with me, we're good. That's amazing. You know what I mean?
1:11:16
And so I did not play games with my kids.
1:11:17
I didn't really know how to be a kid parent. Yeah. You didn't test him.
1:11:22
I didn't Yeah, it wasn't like, "Oh, you know, it's just like, hey, listen, we in this together.
1:11:27
Mommy's going to make some mistakes, you know what I'm saying?" So, what's popping?
1:11:33
What's going on with you? You know what I mean?
1:11:34
It's like and I just kept them at my hip.
1:11:36
You They went where I went.
1:11:39
They would They would just at my hip constantly, but I didn't do the like I wasn't the soccer mom.
1:11:43
I wasn't like the It was like, "Look, um Mom's got a gig in Australia.
1:11:49
We're all packing up and going to Australia for a year and you're rolling with me." Yeah.
1:11:54
You're going to be on set with me. You know what I mean?
1:11:57
And they You just at Mommy's hip.
1:11:59
They just When I went on tour doing my metal music, "Hey, Mommy's going on tour. Yeah.
1:12:04
We're about to be doing some metal stuff." Wicked wisdom. Uh yeah, wicked wisdom. Um it's new experience.
1:12:13
This is going to be good for everybody.
1:12:16
Um you're rolling with me.
1:12:16
So, you know, and just living life together. Yeah.
1:12:19
You know, and allowing them to experience and express um and make decisions about their lives at very early ages.
1:12:35
Even like, Jaden's always been a night owl.
1:12:41
Could never get him to go to sleep at a You still can't.
1:12:45
He would never lay down until I did.
1:12:47
And as he got older and, you know, he'd be working or he had um school or what have you.
1:12:54
I wasn't going to fight him about going to bed at this particular time. I just wasn't.
1:12:58
We would we would negotiate how long he could play video games. You know.
1:13:03
I remember those conversations Yeah, you know, but I would have to I would go, "So, you know, I said I want you to pay attention to your um your level of energy throughout the day. Mhm.
1:13:18
You know, with you going I'm you go to bed whenever you want. Mhm.
1:13:20
But you have to be responsible for that. Yeah.
1:13:23
So, he would go to bed at and then, you know, figure out his bedtime. Totally. Right?
1:13:27
So, it would be even just little things like that at like eight, seven years Yeah, eight, seven years old.
1:13:33
Or if there was a violation, you know, not asking them "What do you What do you think we should do about If If you were the parent in this situation, how would you handle I like that question. That's a great question.
1:13:49
told you off the video games at eight, you tried to be slick, and you played till nine.
1:13:53
You violated our agreement.
1:13:56
What would you do in my position?" Oh.
1:14:01
Oh, Mommy, I think I probably I'd probably tell my kid they couldn't play video games for 2 weeks.
1:14:13
He's giving himself into it. That works for me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Does that work for you? Yeah.
1:14:18
I said, "Okay, are we in agreement?
1:14:20
No video games for 2 weeks?" Yeah. Yeah.
1:14:23
So, also, instead of me putting boundaries in on them, teaching them how to do it for themselves. I love that.
1:14:30
Which I think is a big one. That's huge.
1:14:31
I mean, as an adult, most of us don't know how to put boundaries on ourselves.
1:14:35
And not trying to put shame on mistakes.
1:14:36
That was another big one. Mhm.
1:14:39
I hated being felt I hated feeling like I had to have some kind of shame on mistakes I made as a child.
1:14:47
And so I really I always told my kids like tell me the truth and we going to work it out. Yeah. And we always did.
1:14:55
So I never had to um punish in a certain way.
1:15:01
It was just like we're going to talk about this and then I want you to tell me what boundaries you put on in on yourself. Yeah. In an honest way.
1:15:09
That's such a powerful way. Yeah.
1:15:11
There's so much self-development and self-growth in that for them already. Yeah.
1:15:15
I mean that's yeah that's I I look at my parenting and my parents were always how I describe them with me at least like until 14 it was there was a lot of pressure there was a lot of uh what's the right word?
1:15:27
There was a lot of constraints and like what it I was meant to be.
1:15:32
And then I when I turned 14 for whatever reason I started to rebel and get stuff wrong and make my own mistakes and fight for my independence. Right.
1:15:40
And from that day on my parents started to slowly back away and be supportive from a distance. Yeah.
1:15:46
And that's what my parents have been since that day.
1:15:47
But that's cuz my parents were waiting for me to be able to tell them that hey look I'm ready now.
1:15:52
I don't really want you to be that for me anymore and and I want to make my own decisions.
1:15:57
And so when people talk about it how was it becoming a monk or like doing this it's like it actually wasn't that hard because my parents were just supportive from a distance.
1:16:04
They were really they've never really tried to make my choices for me after 14.
1:16:07
Up until that point they were very involved. Yeah.
1:16:09
And then when they saw that oh he's not going to listen like he's not you know they're going to let me.
1:16:15
And so it's interesting how but I love what you're saying this about self-boundaries.
1:16:19
Self-discipline cuz that's what it is it's called self-discipline.
1:16:23
the only way you're disciplined is by someone else. Exactly. growing up.
1:16:26
So you never know what self-discipline means.
1:16:28
But you've actually helped your children learn self-discipline. Absolutely. That's huge. That's huge.
1:16:33
You talk about at 14 your your parents backing off.
1:16:38
Jaden at 15 made a request to leave the house. Yeah, yeah.
1:16:44
That was one of the most excruciating decisions I made in my life was letting him leave. Yeah. But I knew he needed it. Yes.
1:16:51
I knew and I told Will, I said, "We'll be lucky to keep him in this house till he's 16."
1:16:55
I knew that when he was three. Yeah.
1:16:57
You know what I'm saying?
1:16:57
And so at 15 and very respectfully Mhm.
1:17:06
was like "It's time for me to go.
1:17:08
I need to go out here and feel the rain." Mhm. And I knew he was right.
1:17:14
And I had to let him go at 15. Yeah.
1:17:18
And that's always hard for a parent.
1:17:18
I don't know what that feels like, yeah. decision I ever made. Yeah, still, yeah. I always knew that.
1:17:23
I mean, I was in the rain at 12. Yeah, yeah.
1:17:25
And I was like, "If he can't If he can't survive the rain in Calabasas at 15, I was surviving the rain at 12 in Baltimore."
1:17:31
You know what I'm saying?
1:17:34
And so I also love that I had the experiences that I had and the extremes that I had because I have been willing to allow my kids to engage in life in a certain manner without being utterly fearful.
1:17:55
Like some parents like People will say to me all the time, "You let him go at 15?" Like, "Yeah." Yeah. He had the resources. He made his own money.
1:18:05
You know what I'm saying? It's like Yeah.
1:18:08
If he can't If he can't survive in in in you know, what's been created for him and what he's created for himself, then That's a beautiful way of looking at it.
1:18:17
Yeah, I'm like he I was like I completely utterly trust that he he's got this. Yeah, absolutely. did. Yeah, exactly. He did and he is.
1:18:25
Yeah, he's cool, you know? I love that.
1:18:27
When I'm hearing you talk and everyone is listening to you talk, what I want everyone to realize today is what I love about when Jada shares about what she's going through and going through still and what we're working through and we're working together.
1:18:38
It's like And I and I don't like using this cuz it's so cliche.
1:18:43
I'm trying to find better language for it so we can do it together, but it's like it's the real deep work.
1:18:47
Like it's it's not this isn't like the fluffy fluffy like self-care like just tell yourself you love yourself every day. Like it's not that.
1:18:55
Like please do not when when Jada talks about self-care, if you've listened to this episode, you know it's not that.
1:19:00
Like this isn't just the like be nice to yourself.
1:19:02
Like being nice to yourself means looking at all your demons and your and the pains and the every Like that's what it really means to be nice to yourself.
1:19:10
Like if you're being nice to this room, you clean it clearly.
1:19:13
You go into every corner. Right.
1:19:16
just say, "Oh, you're a beautiful room."
1:19:17
You you you clean it and you purify it in every place.
1:19:19
And when you talk about Red Table Talk, it's the table of purification Yeah.
1:19:23
and the table of transparency.
1:19:23
For me, it's like what I see you doing is everything you're doing even Hala, you know, and so all the work that you're doing now is like it feels like you have infused all of what you've learned and grown in and you're now trying to share it Trying. through your work.
1:19:38
No, but you I mean beautifully sharing it.
1:19:40
Like I mean the conversations you've had at the table, Hala, like all the work you're doing now, it's it's just completely infused with purpose and with with a desire to help but not preach. You're not preaching.
1:19:53
There's no There's no preach. You can. I mean you can preach. You can preach. I can't preach. definitely preach.
1:19:58
But you're not you're not doing it in that way.
1:20:00
You're doing it in the most compassionate kind of I've only ever met this Jada. Right. Right?
1:20:05
So it's like for me, when I'm looking at you, I'm so and that's what's always and I said this to you and I said it to Will when you know, when we were together, I was like, "What what you both do with your platform and the growth you've had and the incredible careers you have, but the fact that your heart is doing this like to me, that's that's what excites me so much.
1:20:23
Like that's what gives me so much faith and hope and like just just so much like vigor to do even do what I do is when I see both of you do it, and I'm like despite everything, you could do anything you wanted right now.
1:20:34
You could do anything, and you know that. You could do anything.
1:20:36
You don't have to do anything, but you want to do this. Yeah.
1:20:39
And that just shows how important it is.
1:20:41
Yeah, I feel like I just feel like um the more that we can share about our journeys, you know, it's like because we're all journeying, you know, at some capacity, and so it's just like I know that in my life when people have the courage to really talk to me. Mhm.
1:21:06
And I'm saying really talk to me. Yeah.
1:21:11
It helped change the trajectory of my life. With a conversation. Mhm.
1:21:18
But it has to come from real places.
1:21:23
And experience, you know.
1:21:26
Clarissa Pinkola has this um this saying, the the uh the well-written upon woman. Right?
1:21:34
And I look at people in that way.
1:21:37
It's like people sometimes are so shameful, or feel so ashamed about experiences that they've had, or um things that they've done, or pitfalls, and um I always say you have nothing to share if you haven't been through something. Yeah, totally. You know what I mean? a boring story.
1:21:57
Yeah, and it's like that's where we get the real deep lessons, you know?
1:21:59
And I had a friend of mine who's who's going through a really bad divorce, and I was telling her, I was like, man just know this.
1:22:13
There are some really powerful blessings on the other side of pain. I promise you.
1:22:17
You know, if we're if we're willing to embrace the experience in that way. Absolutely. You know, so Amazing. Thank you, Jade. Thank you, Jay.
1:22:27
You're an amazing interviewer.
1:22:27
Is there anything that I have not asked you that you wish I did? No.
1:22:32
And you're like, Jay, if I was sitting here You're an amazing host, an amazing interviewer.
1:22:38
Yeah, no, this has been great. No, thank you. Thank you. great talking to you.
1:22:42
All right, so I mean, my conversations with you are by far some of my favorite conversations that we've had.
1:22:48
And we've talked for hours. We have.
1:22:50
We can go, that's for sure.
1:22:52
So we end every interview with the final five. Yep.
1:22:55
And these are rapid-fire questions.
1:22:55
You have to answer in one word or one sentence maximum. Okay.
1:23:00
So we're going to find this hard. Okay. Because we can talk.
1:23:03
And I also go off on a tangent.
1:23:05
So these are your final five. Okay.
1:23:10
Uh what's something you once took for granted that you value now? People. Beautiful.
1:23:17
Uh what's the one question you ask yourself the most?
1:23:22
Probably would be, who are you? Yeah. Beautiful. Mhm.
1:23:27
Question number three, what's the best advice you've ever received or read or heard or been given?
1:23:33
Laugh now cuz you're going to laugh later. Oh, okay. Ruby Dee. Nice. I like it. Okay.
1:23:39
Question number four, the worst advice you've ever received. You're like this one.
1:23:45
advice I've ever received is from myself.
1:23:48
That's how humble you are. That's beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
1:23:52
Anything that you say to yourself?
1:23:53
Yeah, it's like it's I've given myself some of the worst advice. Jesus. Yeah.
1:23:59
Yeah, just like uh you know, going in, show them, you know, who's boss. YOU KNOW, WHATEVER. LIKE ALL THAT, you know.
1:24:07
IT'S JUST THE WORST ADVICE. You know?
1:24:10
That's that's that's special, though. Yeah.
1:24:11
That's special, though, that you can say it to yourself.
1:24:13
That just shows most people will remember something bad they've been told, but No, I've I've given myself the worst advice. Yes.
1:24:23
Our fifth and final question.
1:24:23
If if you could give everyone one practice one habit that they should practice in 2020 every day, a daily practice, a daily habit, and a simple one. It can be anything.
1:24:34
What would you want the world to do? Stillness.
1:24:39
Any amount of stillness you can give yourself, whether it's 5 minutes, whether it's 3 hours. Go someplace. Be quiet. Turn your phone off.
1:24:46
Turn off everything and just sit in stillness so you can hear yourself. Right?
1:24:56
And if the longer you stay you will hear beyond yourself. Right? Yes.
1:25:04
Into those higher reach into that higher, right?
1:25:10
But that would be my advice.
1:25:10
Just find the courage to be still. That's beautiful. Yeah. I love that. Thank you so much, Jada. Thank you. Thank you.
1:25:19
This has been so wonderful, like I I feel like everything you shared today, again, as always, was just so open, so honest.
1:25:26
You're so able to just go there and talk about all your beautiful parts that you've taken within, and thank you for taking us on the journey with you.
1:25:35
But thank you for doing this.
1:25:37
I'm just Thank you for having me, Jay.
1:25:37
so so grateful to have you as a friend, and so grateful to have these exchanges, and for many more Yeah.
1:25:44
uh to keep, you know, for a lifetime of working through all this purification.
1:25:48
Purification is the best word. It is. It's the best word. It's It's not pain. It's not healing. It's purification.
1:25:54
Like we need to, you know Yeah. Thank you so much.
1:25:56
So grateful to you, and I know my audience is very grateful, too.
1:25:59
So Well, thank you for having me.
1:26:01
I love talking to you, and um this was a much needed conversation today. Okay.
1:26:08
A nice way to start my day, Jay. So, thank you. No, I'm glad.
1:26:10
It means the world to me. Thank you so much.
1:26:13
If you want even more videos just like this one, make sure you subscribe and click on the boxes over here.
1:26:18
I'm also excited to let you know that you can now get my book, Think Like a Monk, from thinklikeamonkbook. com.
1:26:28
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