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I just think optimism is great because I think, you know, positivity is better than negativity and optimism and visualization of positive things works.
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I mean, like, it's just about like which direction do you want to go in, you know, which road do you want to go down? I'd rather be happy.
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Hello everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world.
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Thank you so much for being here.
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I'm so excited to introduce you to our next guest.
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She's one of the leading figures in entertainment today.
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She's a talk show host, an activist, a comedian, and a best-selling author.
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And I'm so excited to introduce you and the podcast, Chelsea Handler.
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Chelsea, thank you so much for being here. Thank you. Thank you for having me.
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It's such a pleasure to have you here.
0:45
I know we just connected, I think literally like 10 days ago.
0:48
So, you were speaking at this conference called Wisdom 2. 0. You were also speaking.
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And I was there to do a bit of speaking, too.
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And I remember this moment when I was being interviewed on stage, and then I saw you in the front row, and I was like, "Oh my god, it's Chelsea."
1:01
Like, I had a moment where I where I fan-girled on stage.
1:05
I'm not sure if it was obvious at all.
1:06
And then I was really happy that I bumped into you later on at dinner time.
1:10
And so, when I when we spoke and we connected, I I felt your energy was awesome, and I'm so glad you came out here. Thank you. That's very nice. Thanks.
1:19
Yeah, I went with my sister with my cuz my psychiatrist, which I have to say all the time now, my psychiatrist, uh had referred me to that or asked me if I had any interest in speaking at the Wisdom 2.
1:31
0 conference in San Francisco is what we're talking about.
1:33
And I was like, "Well, not really, but sure, that sounds interesting."
1:37
And he's like, "Well, you could talk about us, or you don't have to, you know, I it's you know, I can't talk about us."
1:42
I'm like, "Well, then let me."
1:44
Because my entire book is about my relationship with my psychiatrist and my kind of I for lack of I hate the word journey because the Bachelor ruined that about 10 years ago.
1:53
But But like for lack of a better term, my experience with therapy and what it did, you know, I didn't think I needed it and I didn't think I needed to calm down or slow down and then I did. So, it's all about that.
2:06
So, he said, "Hey, why don't you come and talk about at Wisdom 2. 0?"
2:08
And I was like, "All right, well, I I may as well start promoting the book since you know what I mean?" That's what you do.
2:14
That's what the book is about.
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So, sure, let me get out there.
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Yeah, and I and I found that really refreshing.
2:18
And the book's called Life Will Be the Death of Me. It's out April 9th.
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So, for anyone who's listening or watching right now, it's probably past April 9th now, so you can go ahead and get the book.
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It's probably out by now.
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But, that's what I love about the book.
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And when I saw you there and I saw you when Wisdom 2.
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0 was sharing that you were going to be there, I was just like, "Wow, I'm really fascinated by your story and journey, lack of a better word, to mindfulness, to meditation, to personal growth and self-awareness."
2:43
So, we're going to dive into that today.
2:45
My audience is in love with this theme and I think they're going to gain so much from hearing about it from your perspective, which I think's going to be really unique for them.
2:53
So, one of the first things I wanted to ask you about was around the quote that you start the book with from Gloria Steinem and you talk about this quote around how everyone's looking to find the right person rather than trying to be the right person.
3:07
And I wanted to ask you, why did you start the book with that quote and why was that so important to you at setting the tone?
3:14
I because I think a lot of like, you know, from from my experience, a lot of my life has been about the end result rather than the being.
3:20
It's about the doing and like the walking off the stage, not being on the stage.
3:23
And I think that kind of transfers to people, too.
3:27
A lot of us are looking for someone to complete our lives or somebody to like, you know, be the lid for our pot, so to speak.
3:34
So, for that theme is very important to me because I'm always been very like fiercely independent, almost to the point where it's like, "No, when I'm going to reject everyone, so nobody gets to reject me, you know?"
3:45
And And that So, I have that kind of opposite.
3:50
Like, I can do everything. I can handle this.
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I don't need help from anyone.
3:52
So, I I relate to that theme because it's the opposite of what I feel, you know?
3:57
I have it in the opposite direction.
3:59
I just, you know, it's too powerful, too strong, too like, you know, I can fix everything. And I don't need a man. I don't need you. I don't need a family. I don't need anything.
4:09
So, uh I mean, I think those are themes that we all have.
4:12
It's one or the other for most people, I think. Mhm.
4:16
Yeah, and that when we when I was reading through your book, one thing I found is that it's so open and vulnerable and honest.
4:21
And one of the things that that reminded me of is this beautiful Banksy painting.
4:25
I'm not sure if you've seen it, and it says, "Be with someone who makes you happy."
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And this little girl has crossed off the with, and then it turns into "Be someone who makes you happy."
4:34
And and it's it's a beautiful principle, and I think starting with that is such a powerful point and it's powerful message to everyone reading the book because you're so right that we've just never been taught to get to know ourselves.
4:46
Like one of the things I always talk about is how we've never had a moment to take a meeting with ourselves, even though we have meetings with everyone throughout the day.
4:53
Yeah, I think that's important.
4:56
I think, you know, you can kind of you can lose the plot a little bit, you know?
4:59
We're always into doing and what we're achieving instead of figuring out what kind of person we're behaving like while we're on that road, you know?
5:04
Or to actually take the time and look outside your lane and look at other people's experiences and how they're unlike your own.
5:12
Like not a Not many of us have the luxury to even do that.
5:16
People are just trying to scrape by, you know?
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And so, if I have the luxury to do it, I better do it. I better do that work.
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If I can afford to go see a psychiatrist for a year, then yeah, I I'm going to be a better human being at the end of it, which is what I kept telling myself, even though it was painful and, you know, I didn't want to talk about all these things that I didn't think had a real impact on my life.
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I thought it was the past, and I'm strong and I'm successful, so it doesn't matter.
5:38
It doesn't, you know, if I'm in pain from a 9-year-old injury, if my brother dying, if I'm in pain from, you know, my father's reaction to my brother dying.
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All of these things that build up and you kind of have like, you know, I know I've had the veneer like it doesn't matter.
5:52
I'm I'm I'm cool with it.
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It does It does matter and it is a deep injury and until you really repair your own injuries, you're not very useful to other people.
6:00
So, if you want to have a meaningful existence or life and I want to do things that are impactful and make change, then I need to be get real about it, you know?
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And so, I had to get real with myself, which I thought I'd been being real forever.
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And then I was like, ugh, gross. I have to unpeel this?
6:15
Like, it was so it's such a cliche also.
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Like, me and you know, turning at 40 and having going my midlife crisis and all of this kind of identity, uh, you know, um, kind of discovery what my identity is and my identity crisis.
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So, it's all the like blah blah blah blah blah, but I figure, you know what?
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I've made a career out of oversharing.
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This is something worthwhile because not everybody can afford it.
6:43
So, we all are recovering from some injury we had, you know, as a child.
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Um, but you know, I have a There's a part of me that's very cynical and that's very much a realist.
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So, I have a hard time with a lot of this LA mumbo jumbo and spirituality can can have can stink of mumbo jumbo a lot of the time.
7:02
So, you know, it's you don't That's why I had a hard time with therapy because I thought it represented that.
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Like, oh, me navel-gazing after I have a show and books about me, I'm going to go talk about myself for 2 hours?
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Like, what kind of loser am I?
7:17
So, that's, you know, it was all about ego.
7:19
Like, I can't, it's too much, you know what I mean? I'm a narcissist. Yeah.
7:23
And we all have different excuses.
7:24
Like, you're sharing some of the ones you have and I think we all have excuses, whether it's to see a therapist, a psychiatrist, spirituality, whatever it is.
7:30
And I want to dive into everything you just said, but I want to go back to what even opened you up to the fact that, like you're saying, you had all these excuses in your head, you had the ego, the narcissism, all of these things that you talk about deeply in the book.
7:42
What allowed you to go beyond that and say, "Okay, no, I really need to do this." and then stay committed?
7:47
Because you say when you first started meeting therapists and psychiatrists, you were just sitting there lying to people.
7:52
And I'm not sure how many people actually go out there and are paying people to lie to them, which seems like a crazy thing to do.
7:59
But how did you get beyond that last one and then find someone that you could Well, I interviewed him on my Netflix show, my last show on Netflix.
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I interviewed him about brain adolescent brain development.
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And I And he was very smart and literal, and he spoke in ways that I could talk about the brain in a non-emotional way.
8:13
So, I took that as my like, you know, invitation to kind of discuss the brain with him.
8:17
So, when I realized I had to go see somebody, it was after the election and I just had such outrage.
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And my anger was at a 10 all the time, and I couldn't work, I couldn't focus on anything but the news and this 24-hour spin cycle that it created.
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And I just was like, "Oh my god, I have to harness this anger into something powerful and good, not this.
8:41
I can't be this way all the time."
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And they were like robbing me of my life, this administration, and I allowed them to.
8:47
And I was like, "No, no, no, I'm not doing this."
8:49
So, I went, you know, there for that.
8:51
And what it realized what I uncovered with through seeing the psychiatrist, cuz for the first three sessions all I did was [ __ ] and moan about Donald Trump.
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Like I was paying somebody, you know, this money to listen to me complain about him.
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And I got a lot of out of it.
9:04
I mean, I would have paid him more.
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But after three sessions, like we started to get real and started talking about what Donald Trump's like presidency represented to me, which was an unhinged childhood, when things were completely out of control.
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So, for the first time in my adult life, things felt completely out of control, and it like reminded me of my brother going off and saying he was going to be right back and dying.
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Like that was the other time my life was out of control.
9:31
So, that's why it triggered all the stuff in me.
9:33
And so, talking to somebody and having somebody who has a degree in you know psychiatry and and and other things telling you hey this is don't minimize an incident just because you weren't raped or sexually assaulted you have a right to be in pain.
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You lost your brother that's painful.
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You probably haven't matured much beyond that emotionally when it comes to men at 9 years from 9 years old.
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And I was like no that's exactly what's happening.
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I'm a 9 year old when it comes to romance cuz my brother was like my crush you know I mean he was the oldest I was the youngest.
10:06
And once somebody said that to me I'm like oh my god is it that obvious like that's how basic this all is? I answer yes it is.
10:12
And if you don't you know ask questions like that or admit it to yourself then you're just kind of masking pain.
10:20
So so I I loved what you said there because it's almost like giving yourself permission to feel pain. Mhm.
10:27
Like a lot of us are masking ourselves from it or we're like oh that didn't matter like and for you it was losing your brother which you talk a lot about how it actually defined you and your family for a period of time before you went through this process where you were able to actually say I'm not going to let that define me and Right.
10:43
I mean I think I was being defined by loss.
10:44
I was being defined by oh you know as a 9 year old I didn't have the ability to understand that my brother didn't have a choice.
10:50
He didn't go kill himself or to me it felt like he left our family to go live with another family cuz he found somebody he liked better with a cooler little sister or whatever I was you know I didn't understand that it was an accident.
11:00
So I was mad at him and I was I be I continued to be mad at people you know for any sort of vi- vibe like that which is you know what leads to not ever trusting men or being in a relationship and why I feel so like strongly about providing for myself so that I don't have to rely on another person.
11:20
Mhm how did you start revisiting these moments in a constructive way?
11:24
When I hear you speak it's like you're able to find the patterns you're seeing the parallels obviously thanks to your psychiatrist you're able to see that this event could have sparked this.
11:35
How does someone re-look at their life constructively as opposed to destructively?
11:39
Because it could feel like if you I think the reason why we shunned away from these things is because we're scared of diving back into a past experience and having to make sense of it.
11:47
Yeah, I mean think I mean if it's really painful, you obviously like need a professional cuz a lot of people aren't willing to or capable, I think, or have the vocabulary to access your pain. You know what I mean?
11:57
At nine Something happened to you that was traumatic when you were a child, you don't have the vocabulary to articulate that pain, so that carries with you to adulthood, and as an adult you still don't have the vocabulary even though you do.
12:10
So, I think that like you just have to really know that like unwelcome thoughts are great things to explore, you know?
12:17
Everyone talks about that with meditation to like don't try and shut up a negative thought or a doubtful thought, but actually welcome it and consider it and go, "Oh, okay, this is here."
12:27
Give it the airtime it needs, so that maybe when it leaves, it's gone for longer rather than trying to tamp something away.
12:33
So, I think all of those things with regard to like memories when you're growing up, it's just you have to you have to believe in science and data and understand that going through these conversations with someone is going to be a helpful event for you most often unless you have some quack that doesn't give a [ __ ] about, you know, helping you.
12:53
Um so, I think most people are in this business cuz they want to help other people.
12:57
So, uh yeah, I think it's important to think about your the memories you don't love.
13:02
Don't obsess about them, but give them like the respect that they deserve, so that maybe you can sort them out.
13:08
Yeah, I I think a little under a year ago, I completely agree with you.
13:10
I made a video called how meditation made me a bad person, and it was because when I first started to meditate, it made me more aware of all the stuff I needed to deal with.
13:19
And so, all of this negativity was there, all of this other stuff was surfacing from my childhood, from my background, and so, the video was all around that principle around like it's not like you meditate and you feel great straight away.
13:30
No, I totally can relate to what you're saying because like I said this to my doctor.
13:34
I said, "Hey, listen, now that I'm meditating like 15 minutes a day, I mean, and this is hard for me.
13:37
Like I'm not into meditation the way I want to be.
13:41
I want to get it because I know it's right and it's going to help.
13:43
And I've already seen small signs of it helping with my patients and you know, setting an intention for the day and you know, yada yada yada.
13:49
But I think like when you do, you know, I think with sometimes when you're addressing the very issues you have, the opposite side of those things becomes louder than normal because you're now more aware of your behavior.
14:04
So, that gets that din gets a little bit louder and you're like, "Wait, I'm become I'm doing all the right things.
14:10
Why am I having doubtful thoughts?
14:10
Why am I having negative thoughts?"
14:12
And you're like, "Because you're more aware." And those pass, too. Yeah.
14:15
So, I can relate to that. Oh, good. I'm glad. I'm glad.
14:19
I thought it was just me.
14:21
But it was that Yeah, the the the the tradition that I studied as a monk and would describe it as when you try and clean a room, a dusty room, the first thing that happens is the dust comes up in your face.
14:29
And it feels cloudy, it doesn't feel comfortable, it's uncomfortable because you're trying to clean a place that hasn't been cleaned for a long time.
14:35
Or hasn't even been seen for a long time. Yeah.
14:38
But I love what you talk about in the book.
14:39
You talk about us building bubbles.
14:42
And and I like the way you describe that because I do think and you you've mentioned the LA bubble a bit already, but it's like we live inside a bubble.
14:49
And then we all think we don't, but everyone has their own bubble.
14:51
And then we're living inside multiple bubbles.
14:53
Tell me about your experience when you started to recognize you're like, "Oh, wow, I'm in a bubble."
14:57
And then how do I break this bubble?
15:01
I think, you know, again, with the election, it was like when all of this like the this racist stuff was like coming to a head, you know, for me, I really thought like that we had gotten somewhere.
15:12
Like I was naive and it was a that just was another example of the bubble I live in.
15:17
You know, um is is I like I couldn't believe it.
15:21
And we and all black people are like, "It happens all the time.
15:23
Like, why are you guys surprised now?
15:25
Like, why are white people not better allies and advocates to people of color?"
15:28
And that's what I spent my time doing last year, reading books, you know, like James Baldwin and Ta-Nehisi Coates and or however you say his name, I always screw it up.
15:37
But, you know, like really just thinking outside of my own experience because clearly I'm part of some [ __ ] lucky club because I don't have to, you know, worry about what what I'm going to do next.
15:46
Even though I do, I you know, I can pretty much do whatever I want.
15:50
And and you have to realize that's a rarefied experience to have.
15:54
And I I just thought I deserved it for a really long time until I really started to be like, "Okay, you know, scared about what was happening in the world and looking around."
16:04
And I'm embarrassed that it took that long.
16:06
I have so much respect and admiration for you for having to do that at that stage, like right now in your life because I think it's it's wonderful that I when I hear you speak, it's like I recognize the judgment you have on yourself and just like you know, I know how much you want to change and at the same time I'm just like, "Chelsea, no, thank you.
16:22
Like, thank you for doing this because I think that what it's showing is that it's never too late or too early.
16:28
It's never like, "Oh, you're too far gone or you're not."
16:30
It's not this process of like, "Oh, I wish I learned this when I was a kid."
16:33
It's like, "No, I'm going to take responsibility now and I'm going to change it now." Mhm.
16:38
And I think that's so refreshing.
16:38
I think it's going to help so many people. Thank you.
16:41
So, from my side, I've I'm genuinely just excited to see your journey be a catalyst for so many people to just push out of their own complacency, me included, and and all of us to look beyond that.
16:53
Well, that would be great.
16:53
I mean, can you imagine I start a movement I I think you can. I believe you. Embracing your grief.
16:59
I believe Is that what we're going to call it? know.
17:01
Can we come up with a shorter title? Catchy one.
17:03
your grief it doesn't sound like an upper.
17:04
So, I'll think of something.
17:07
Yeah, we need some good marketing title. But, no, I I mean it.
17:08
Like, I'm and I'm not just saying it.
17:10
Like, when I see you talk about this story, when I see you share this message, I get so excited and then activated. Oh, thank you.
17:17
Because because there's so many people watching you, they admire you for so many different talents that you have.
17:22
And then when you say actually all of this, like this is giving it meaning, right?
17:25
Like this is now giving it meaning. Yeah, yeah. I suppose so.
17:28
It's hard, you know, like to think of yourself in that way.
17:32
So, you know, you just try doing it for you. Yeah, thank you. Great. I'm glad you do. Thank you. Yeah.
17:37
And you talk about this book, Man's Search for Meaning, which I had on my which I had on my bookshelf, so I picked it up for this session.
17:41
You talk about this book changing your life.
17:42
How did you even come across it and how did it how did it impact you?
17:46
You know, I read a lot of really hard books when I was in my 20s cuz I skipped college, so I was overcompensating in a major way because my family is uh you know, they all did go to college.
17:56
So, I didn't want to be like the one that didn't go and not have my wits about me. So, I read a ton.
17:59
And that was just one of the books.
18:01
I mean, that's a book that so many people have read and people quote from all the time, but it really just it was an aha moment reading that line out of a book, which is something my dad told me to do at a very young age, like take one line out of every book, even if you don't like it.
18:14
And that that that you take with you in life, that you think about, you know what I mean, and contemplate.
18:18
And you know, when I was a kid, I was like, "Oh, please, just shut up."
18:22
Like I would just make up lines, you know, out of Anna Karenina.
18:25
I'm like, "Here, this line right here."
18:26
But that book was the first book that I saw the line, and it was, you know, "Stop asking what life expects out of you and start asking uh or no, stop asking what you expect out of life and start asking what life expects out of you."
18:39
Something along those lines.
18:41
Yes, yes, yes, that's it, yeah.
18:41
And I was like, "Wait, what?"
18:45
Wait, what's life expecting from me?
18:47
It's like you grow up and you think you want and you're greedy and you want this and you want success and you want money and you want happiness and all of whatever you want, and you're never I never thought what is life expecting from me?
18:58
I'm just like, "They're lucky to have me." was my attitude.
19:00
I'm a blessing to the world. Right. Yeah.
19:04
And then no, that's Talking about yeah. No, I love that.
19:06
And that that is a beautiful piece of advice from your father.
19:08
Like I I think everyone who's listening or watching the podcast right now, make sure you do that because I think so often we feel like, "Oh, I have to finish a book to understand it."
19:15
And you know, we we place so much emphasis like what you said at the beginning of this show beginning of the episode, you were talking about it's always about results.
19:24
And we're always like, "Oh, how many books have you read?
19:25
Oh, how did you get to the end of that book?"
19:27
And actually, you could just take a one line out of every book and it could be transformative.
19:32
the one book that I've never finished with Salman Rushdie, Midnight's Children, because I could I didn't understand where the hell the man was or the boat or I didn't know what continent we were on.
19:40
I was reading that and I'm like, "I can't finish and I had such like OCD about finishing books as a child growing up."
19:45
Um that I I always did finish It was the first book I did not finish with Salman Rushdie.
19:50
I was like, "I can't I don't know what this is about and I cannot finish it."
19:53
I mean, Kierkegaard was easier to get through. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah, no.
19:58
And I I've had plenty of books that I've never read front of back to front, but I found so much value in.
20:05
Like it's not about that and I think It's about taking Like I always think now, oh, if something's in front of me like an article or somebody forwarded me something like there's something in there for me.
20:13
So, just read it or watch the video for as long as you can and try and just grab something from it, you know? Yeah. Absolutely.
20:20
So, sometimes it's like really kind of people are putting stuff in front of you.
20:23
It feels like, "Oh, wait.
20:23
You're supposed to see it, you know?"
20:25
And I'm not into that all of that stuff, but I definitely think that there energy makes a big difference in this world. It does.
20:32
And I'm really glad you said that because I love how in the book and I shared this with you because I'm born and raised in London.
20:38
I grew up as a complete rebel until the time I was 18.
20:42
Most of it still lasted until 22 when I became a monk finally.
20:44
But I I started off in a very unspiritual environment, was never fascinated by spirituality or anything of that sort.
20:51
I studied behavioral science at business school.
20:54
So, the brain and the mind for me is where I come alive and love talking about research and all the rest of it.
20:59
But I love how you call out the superficial use of the word gratitude, universe, crystals for the sake of it.
21:05
Not not offending anyone, but I like the point that you make very strongly that that's not really it.
21:12
And I I kind of feel like what service what disservice do you think that does to this wisdom that you've now opened up yourself?
21:18
Because I guess you and others may have been pushed back by that kind of language and have been. But I mean, that's LA.
21:24
I think LA is very specific to, you know, it's not like you know, you people think that Yeah, it is a turn-off in a way.
21:32
For me, it certainly was.
21:34
It was a turn-off for like therapy.
21:35
I just group it all together, you know, therapy, crystals, colonics, like no thanks. I'm not into any of it.
21:42
So, I mean, so like I just don't But I'm sure watch Can you catch me in 2 years?
21:46
I'll be like, you know, shoving crystals up my ass.
21:49
I'm like, "This is amazing. I love it."
21:51
I mean, I definitely gone down the road of every trend and fad in LA.
21:52
I mean, some a lot less than others, you know what I mean?
21:58
Which ones have you gotten into?
21:59
Like, you know, I've tried I mean, I haven't gone off the deep end in the way that my like, you know, girlfriends have.
22:04
But like, I've, you know, cleansed for 5 days or, you know, fasted for 5 days.
22:08
I've done, you know, diets and all all sorts of things.
22:13
I mean, I guess I don't have the stick-to-it-iveness that I that my friends do with this stuff.
22:17
But I yeah, I usually lose interest like 2 to 3 days in when it's like something silly or I'm drinking charcoal.
22:23
Or, you know what I mean?
22:25
Like Yeah, that's for whitening teeth? Is that what it is? What's charcoal? I don't know.
22:30
I think it's for a colonoscopy.
22:30
So, I have no idea why I would be drinking it at home.
22:34
Um, but there's just a lot of things in this, you know, like healers, you know, that's a great thing, but it's not as big of a community as people make it out to be. You know what I mean?
22:43
There are real healers and then there are not real healers.
22:46
And there are, you know, all sorts of varying degrees of [ __ ] in this town. Yeah.
22:51
So, it's it's just important to make sure, you know, like you're not a [ __ ] Mhm.
22:56
And how have you separated that?
22:58
Like how have you how have you gone through it?
22:59
Because I think that's useful I like what you're saying right now.
23:01
I think so many people will agree with that, especially people who've come across the community, the tribe, the space, whatever it may be.
23:07
What's been your way of just calling out stuff and saying that's not real, that isn't working.
23:12
don't really call it out.
23:12
I just It's like whether it works or not for you is up to you.
23:15
So, like if I had a better attitude and a less cynical attitude and I went to a psychic and I wanted to believe all of it, then great.
23:20
I could live in that hubris for the next 5 days and maybe it's real or not, but like I don't want to do that anymore.
23:25
Like that's not a good use of my time.
23:27
I don't think that I need You know what I mean?
23:30
Like I can There are things that I find interest I don't call it out.
23:34
I don't want to put people down for what they believe in.
23:36
I mean, unless they're, you know, ridiculous friends and I could just say it to them, which usually I tried to do, but I try to do less of now.
23:43
Um but I think that you just say no, you're not into it. You know what I mean?
23:49
Like my friend just opened a Korean spa and I'm like, you got to come, you got to come.
23:53
And I go, "Buddy, I'm just not into getting my face and my body scrubbed by a bunch of women. Like it's not my thing. I like massages. Yeah.
24:00
Open up a massage spa and I'll come."
24:01
Like you just kind of say no and it's not personal. It's just my preference. Yeah.
24:06
Now I'm really happy you came on this podcast cuz you could have just been like to me, "No, I'm not coming on podcast cuz I don't like I don't like spiritual podcast." Yeah, right. Right, but here I am. you are.
24:15
So, I feel better than your friend with the Korean spa. Mhm.
24:16
Uh how did Tell me about some of you alluded to it then.
24:20
What are some of the things that have changed habits-wise, lifestyle-wise?
24:23
You just said there I try and do it less.
24:25
Like being less reactive.
24:27
My thing is I was always telling everybody the truth at nauseam, like whether they wanted it or not.
24:30
You know, it didn't have to be like solicited.
24:33
And I just was like this loudmouth and like finally I was just like, "Fuck, who do I think I am? Like cool it.
24:40
Why why am I inserting myself and having like these strong opinions based on very little knowledge, you know?"
24:47
And so, I think after a while plus I just got burned out, you know, with everything and working so hard and so fast without taking a look around and missing kind of those integral moments that you want to remember and have valuable time with.
25:00
So, the thing sorry I'm rambling. No, no, no.
25:03
To answer your question, the things that have changed well, I meditate now.
25:06
My doctor said commit to 3 months and so I've I've done it and I'm like now into it. Like I do it every day.
25:14
Yeah, 15 minutes a day which is big for me. It's amazing. Um I am less reactive.
25:18
I don't say what's off the top of my you know my I don't How have you stopped that one?
25:23
Because that sounds hard.
25:23
I just It's so much cooler to just sit back and not say anything when somebody, you know, you don't have to like correct people or tell them what's right. It doesn't matter. Like just chill out.
25:31
I mean, I take a lot of cannabis also just so you know, like this is part of my program cuz it cuz it cut my drinking in half mostly.
25:40
And then I realized like the great benefits of that.
25:43
So, then I got all passionate about that and how it makes you more present and more mellow and like for me especially it's a great ameliorant.
25:50
Um so, that's changed a lot.
25:54
I you know, I'm just more present and I also don't you know, when someone sends me a text or an email that annoys me or I don't like, I don't ever respond now.
26:03
Like I used to just be like you know, sitting there typing angrily on my phone and it's like it's not a hot look.
26:09
So, just cool and [ __ ] like you know, cool it and relax and that's my attitude towards everything now. Yeah.
26:15
So, between the meditation, the cannabis, the therapy, I mean, I'm killing it. I love it. I love it.
26:20
You are you are you are killing life. I love it. No, that's great. It's It's awesome.
26:24
We all know that life is made up of habits and what we break it down into and you're only going to let go of bad ones when you take on new good ones.
26:30
So, it's nice to see that and yes, 15 minutes is huge.
26:34
And it's also it's great to recognize when you feel like, you know, if I feel like I'm losing my patience, I know myself now and I'm like okay, either remove yourself from the situation or get your [ __ ] together.
26:43
Like you're not going to snap up her at a person.
26:45
You're not doing any of that, you know? Yeah. Um so, that's good.
26:49
It makes you feel like an adult more, which is I feeling I've never had in my life. I love that.
26:56
Yeah, no, I completely agree with you.
26:57
And we still all have our moments where we we do snap or we don't react the way we want to, etc.
27:02
But it's it's it's a marathon, right?
27:04
It's going leave your therapist and get down, you know, to the parking lot and get into an argument with the guy who's parking your car.
27:09
I mean, that's happened to me where I'm like, "You are such a [ __ ] asshole."
27:13
Meanwhile, 2 seconds ago I'm like, you know, meditating with my psychiatrist.
27:17
I'm like, And he's watching from the window and shaking his head. Yeah, but I said that.
27:19
I remember telling her, I go, "Oh my god, you should have seen me.
27:22
I go, I left there and I just got in a fight with this guy in the parking lot."
27:25
And he's like, "Well, at least you know you like at least you're identifying it now."
27:28
He goes, "You 2 years ago you would have done that without thinking twice about it."
27:33
Like, "Next time, don't do it." Yeah, yeah, yeah.
27:35
Yeah, we undervalue just identifying. Right? We undervalue that.
27:38
We undervalue that because we want to skip from doing something bad to never doing it again.
27:43
And the point in the middle is identification and recognition and acknowledgement of a mistake we're making.
27:48
And that's like such an important step.
27:51
Yeah, I agree with that for sure.
27:51
I think identification, awareness, and modification is an acronym that my guide Dan taught me, which is, you know, identifying the issue is half the battle.
28:00
And then, you know, you're aware of it, and then just modify it. Just don't react.
28:04
Don't do the thing that you do every single time.
28:07
Do something different, and then before you know it, that's your habit. Yeah.
28:11
And that's re-habituating yourself to like all the positive things. For sure. Yeah.
28:15
Identification, modification. No, come on. Keep up.
28:20
Identification, awareness, I am modification. I am. I like that. I like I'm not ready. I'm not ready. Oh, no. This is good.
28:30
Look, you're sounding like a psychiatrist now.
28:31
But you just told me you're not ready that you crushed myself.
28:34
What a pivot for my career. I know.
28:34
Now I'll be giving grief counseling therapy sessions with absolutely no degree. But on TV. Mhm, right. TV to reach more people. Exactly. work. It may not work. I'm a televangelist. I love it. I love it.
28:46
And and with this book, I mean, writing it must not have been easy, I feel. Uh it wasn't hard.
28:53
It was I welcome that kind of like I like a challenge.
28:57
challenging yourself, right?
28:58
I was definitely in a lot of different parts of the world crying in airports or on planes writing it and even rereading it it still is like hard.
29:02
Even when I did the audio recording it was hard.
29:04
And so, I'm doing this tour and I'm going around the country to different cities and I'm doing instead of doing stand-up I'm having a different celebrity part of the the country interview me.
29:17
Somebody who's like Sean Hayes is doing Chicago, Natasha Lyonne is doing New York City and so on and so forth. So, yeah.
29:23
And if you come to that, you get a a book also. So, it's livenation.
29:29
com you can buy tickets for that.
29:31
It starts April 11th in Boston. Oh, I love that. That sounds fun.
29:33
How many cities are you doing? 20. Oh, wow. Okay, brilliant.
29:37
That's going to be a lot of fun.
29:38
So, yeah, wherever you are in the US, you can head over.
29:40
Are you doing anything in UK as well? No, not the UK. No. Okay, sorry guys. You have to wait.
29:45
You have to you're not ready. No. You're not ready.
29:47
Everyone in London, England, you're not ready.
29:49
be a real wake-up call in London.
29:49
They'd be like, "What is psychotherapy?"
29:52
This you think you're cynical, the cynicism in England is huge. Yeah.
29:56
Like having grown up in London my whole life, like the the amount of cynicism around self-growth, personal growth, personal development is huge.
30:04
Like one of the things I found refreshing when I moved to New York 2 and 1/2 years ago now and then when I moved to LA was so many people would say, "Oh, I was just with my therapist the other day."
30:11
I've never heard that in my life living in England.
30:13
Like that's a big cultural difference. Yeah, for sure.
30:17
terms of I have a British friend who lives here and she's like, "Oh my god, you know."
30:19
She's like, "Oh, everybody's all therapied out here." Yeah.
30:22
Yeah, meanwhile cut to she'll be in therapy and within Oh, she's not yet? in 2 weeks. She's not yet? she is. Oh, she is. Okay, okay, she is. She is.
30:31
Yeah, it seems to be positive and it's it's about finding that right person.
30:34
That's how I've always felt about it that it's it's finding that right person and then it just it's just waiting, I guess, till you feel you can be honest with someone. Yeah. Right? Until you keep lying.
30:42
But okay, so one of the things I want to talk to you about that you bring up a lot in the book is this feeling of what empathy really is.
30:48
And how so often we we think we're showing ourselves crying for other people or feeling for other people, but really we're just doing it so that we can be seen that way. Well, some people.
31:00
No, I mean I don't speak for everybody, but for me, I was I was sympathetic, but I lacked empathy.
31:06
Like I was Explain the difference for us.
31:10
Sympathy is like if you see somebody, a homeless person who needs money, you give it to them, but empathy is actually thinking about what it is like to be a homeless person asking for money.
31:17
Like putting yourself in that person's shoes.
31:21
So, I'm great at showing up in a crisis and being like in you know, a fixer and doing all of that stuff, but I was never really considering what that person was going through.
31:31
You know, I want to do the band-aid and fix them up and patch them up and I want everything to be back to normal because I, you know, know how to fix a bad situation because of my brother dying.
31:39
So, like that led to me to kind of never think of empathy.
31:41
Like I had to ask what the distinction was as well.
31:46
And um so it's it's eye-opening and once you identify again that you don't have something or you're that's not your like, you know, muscle that you've been using and you look out for it then you're already in, you know what I mean?
32:01
You're already so much better off.
32:03
You just have somebody tell you.
32:03
I was so excited when he told me like these things that I was missing. I'm like, "Okay, great. Where do I get it?" Yeah.
32:09
Like do I buy it or like what you know, and or do I, you know, build it? And so that is great.
32:16
What's great, the powerful like, you know, the power of the human mind and how you can create stuff that you have a deficit in so to speak.
32:23
Yeah, I love how the book oscillates between playful and profound and I was wondering how your the comedian in you has transformed through this journey.
32:31
Like because I guess that's been such a strong part of your identity for so long.
32:34
Yeah, but yeah, yeah, I don't know. I mean, I funny.
32:39
Yeah, no, it has to be for my readers.
32:39
I wouldn't want them to read it something and expect something from me that doesn't deliver on that front.
32:44
I mean, it's going to be much deeper than people had probably expected. so that too. Playful and profound.
32:50
But it's yeah, I think it's for me, I can't digest anything too serious.
32:54
I need funny like a little bit, you know what I mean?
32:58
And there's already been too much seriousness with this with the election and the politics. It's too much.
33:01
Like I needed to get away from all of that and focus on something that I'm going to do with my life and other people that, you know what I mean?
33:09
Like I want to really do something and make a difference in a way. So, it's about that. And yeah.
33:16
Yeah, it is a challenge that we fill our lives speaking about, thinking about, and gossiping or talking about something that we don't like.
33:23
It is funny how that just evolves so quickly. the negative.
33:28
Yeah, we just find that every one of our conversations, every one of our meetings ends up being about what we don't like and hence we're not building or putting energy into practical.
33:35
Like you're saying you needed to get away from it.
33:37
I mean, that's one of the things so a lot of people say to me like with the videos I make online like why do you think that's working or whatever in the last couple of years that I started making content?
33:45
And a lot of the feedback I think is because people want to move away from everything else that they see on social and everything that they see on the news.
33:53
They're looking for alternatives. yeah.
33:55
People want alternatives.
33:55
I mean, there was just a stat that came out about Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez getting more Twitter and all of her bench tweets are positive and they did some, you know, and saying that she's getting as much more attention than Donald Trump for all the positivity she's creating versus his negativity, which is good, great. Let's go with that.
34:14
Yep, yep, let's go with that. Absolutely.
34:15
That was the article I was sharing as well that Inc.
34:17
did that piece on the 777 million Facebook posts of 2018 and the most popular ones were all positive. They were all uplifting.
34:24
The top 500 were not full of the negativity.
34:28
So, it shows that there is a shift in humanity.
34:30
Like we are changing as a whole, not just you, but your change is very Well, it's I don't think it's we're changing.
34:35
I think people are inherently good or inherently bad, and I think there's more good than there is bad.
34:39
I mean, I'd like to think that, but I also think that it's just more exposed now because we have the capacity to make these videos that you make, you know, so well.
34:49
Like people have the they can spread the love and they share the love, and they can spread the hate, and they can share that, too.
34:54
So, it's just a matter of which one has more people.
34:56
So, like let's get everybody on the right side of this. Let's shift.
35:01
So, this book's going to do it. No, yeah.
35:03
Yeah, this should change everything.
35:04
This should change everything.
35:05
This book is going to define now.
35:07
But, but it is it is hopeful. It is hopeful.
35:10
Like I I I don't know how you see it now.
35:11
Like having gone through the process, I've got Where are you at with how things are now, and how's your viewpoint changed?
35:18
Well, I think things are moving in the past with regard to With regard to the state of politics, I just think optimism is great because I think, you know, positivity is better than negativity and optimism and visualization of positive things works.
35:34
I mean, like it's just about like which direction do you want to go in, you know, which road do you want to go down?
35:39
I'd rather be happy, you know, than than pissed. Yeah, absolutely.
35:43
Yeah, I think for me it's that feeling of being activated and energized to be a part of that change, to try and push forward, do something different, which I see, you know, and and I know we're joking 2 seconds ago about this book changing the world, but it's it's still someone like yourself taking a stance to say I'm choosing this side. I'm going this way.
35:59
And I think that's important.
36:01
I think the more people that choose to do that with their platforms and everything will will help people move that way because it's you verbalizing your choice to everyone, which you could have just made to yourself.
36:14
What made you want to do it for everyone else?
36:16
Like what made you want to articulate this to other people?
36:19
I think my just experience with my therapist, I thought, you know, I was taking time the year off, and all I was doing was like campaigning for people or throwing fundraisers at my house to try and you know flip the house in 2018.
36:27
So, during that time I was like, all right, I'll go to therapy while I'm doing it.
36:33
And then after like a couple of months I started writing stuff down.
36:35
I'm like, wait a second, this could help people that can't afford to do this.
36:38
This could help people who have that childhood pain that they can't unlock and they don't know why they're failing at things in their life as a result of it.
36:45
Um, or why how it's in fact, you know, impeding them so, you know, their growth.
36:51
So, then I started writing and then I was like, oh, this is really personal.
36:55
Like no one's going to want to read this. It's too personal.
36:58
It's like, you know, it's a bummer.
36:59
It's like, you know, some there's a lot of death in the book.
37:01
And and then I my editor just kept pushing me.
37:06
She's like, I think you need to just write what's happening with you right now. Like write it all.
37:09
Like I don't care if it's I'm like, this is going to be a death book.
37:11
Like this is no one wants this.
37:14
And she just kind of pushed me to do it.
37:16
And then through it I was like, this is exactly what I should be writing about. Oh my god.
37:19
And then I was like, oh wow, this is going to be some something people can look to who don't, you know, who have the same feelings.
37:29
Since I wrote it and since I recorded the audio book, I've heard like two other people just in passing, people I didn't know, with the same identical stories as me.
37:39
So, I can't even imagine how many people are out there.
37:42
100% and I think that's so true that when we put out a story attracts that community together who have that same story and experience which we think often that we're the only one who are having that experience, but it is shared.
37:53
It is a Yeah, it's shared and that's where the strength comes in. You know what I mean?
37:58
That's such an energy attraction because people are so into, you know, commiserating with other people and finding out that they're not alone. Like no one is alone.
38:06
What you've experienced someone else has experienced. Such a powerful point. Yeah, so true. Never feel alone.
38:12
Yeah, there are so many people going through the same thing.
38:14
And I mean, the book does focus on have a lot of death in it, but also you you dedicate two chapters to your dogs. Oh, yeah.
38:21
Uh, and I thought that was Three.
38:23
I have three dog chapters. Three dog chapters.
38:24
Okay, three chapters in there.
38:26
and sister don't even deserve one chapter.
38:28
Plus, they're [ __ ] so they don't get their own chapters. But, the other two, yes. God rest their souls. They deserved it.
38:34
Chunk, for sure, deserves his own chapter. Yeah.
38:35
Tell us about how much joy they've brought into your lives.
38:40
How long have they been around?
38:41
Oh, I have these two idiot dogs now.
38:43
They're like a brother brother and sister named Bernice and Bertrand.
38:45
I did not name them, so obviously I went to I like chow chow mixes.
38:49
So, I went to a shelter north of LA, like two hours north, and she had a bunch of chow mixes.
38:55
And then, she's like, "But, I have a brother and sister named Bert and Bernice."
38:59
And I was like, "I don't even need to see them.
39:00
Like, that's Those are my dogs. Bring them to me."
39:01
And then, she's like, "Oh, we have to do a home inspection." And I thought, "What?" god.
39:07
I You don't really, but I thought, you know, I would let you go through my taxes with a forensic accountant if it meant I could have these two dogs named Bert and Bernice living at my house.
39:16
They're like little lions. And see them.
39:18
Yeah, he's a big fat baby, and she's a big fat She's a big fat [ __ ] So, I'm happy, yeah.
39:23
They're very challenging.
39:25
They love my cleaning lady.
39:26
They don't want to be alone with me. Oh, wow.
39:29
Unless I'm in a car, and then they'll go anywhere with me.
39:30
So, that's how I have to lure them.
39:32
It's been a real bait and switch operation at my house. Oh, amazing.
39:35
And my brother or my nephew moved in, and he's got an Australian shepherd.
39:39
So, we have three dogs now. Wow. Yeah. Wow.
39:41
Do you think they're they're they're any Do you Do you have any thoughts on like dogs' positivity?
39:46
Yeah, well, they're positive, for sure. Good friends, and Yeah.
39:48
I mean, I like people that like dogs. Right. Nice. Nice. I I like little dogs.
39:53
I It took me a while because growing up in an Indian household, the closest thing you have to a pet is a fish, which I don't think really counts.
40:00
And then, when I moved to the US, and I had so many friends who had dogs, I was like, "Oh, okay.
40:04
Now, I'm going to figure out which types of dogs I like." I like small dogs. Yeah.
40:08
That's kind of where I'm going to get to.
40:09
Oh, that's good that you know that. Yeah, I know that. I'm self-aware. I'm I'm identifying. Yeah.
40:12
Awareness, and then modification.
40:15
I'm going to remember that now. I am. I really like that.
40:16
So now that I met you at Wisdom 2.
40:18
0, which I I believe is a wonderful conference.
40:21
It was It was such a pleasure to meet there and speak there.
40:23
I'm I'm excited to see you be in those places, but also in the places that you are where where you do have your presence already sharing this message.
40:30
I'm so excited for the book to be out.
40:32
We're recording this a bit before the book's out, but I'm so excited for the book to be out.
40:37
I'm so excited to see how it helps and affects and supports so many people.
40:41
And I'll be cheering on meditating from the sidelines for its success. you.
40:47
forward to meet a lot of people.
40:47
But is there anything Chelsea?
40:48
I always ask this every time.
40:49
Is there anything I haven't let you share or you feel like I missed or you're like, "Jay, you you didn't let me share this.
40:54
I really need to say feel like I've shared. Okay.
40:57
I feel like we're good, right? Amazing. Awesome. Yeah, no, so do I.
40:58
I think you shared beautifully.
41:00
Thank you so much for being open, vulnerable, and sharing so beautifully on the podcast. Thank you so much. Thank you.
41:07
If you want even more videos just like this one, make sure you subscribe and click on the boxes over here.
41:11
I'm also excited to let you know that you can now get my book think like a monk from think like a monkbook. com.
41:21
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