0:00
I will say like the show came out.
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0:00
It was number nine on all of Netflix the first day, number six the next day, and like the reception has been insane.
0:06
Like way bigger than I ever thought.
0:11
many how many messages are you getting?
0:12
Oh dude, I've given up on like like I usually get about a thousand to two thousand messages a day just generally.
0:20
Like including DMs, emails, everything cuz I I'm on my newsletter and all this stuff.
0:23
It when I open up Instagram in the morning, it just keeps refreshing like over and over in my DMs.
0:40
Ramit, what's going on, man? We're live. What's up, Sam?
0:42
Ramit from How to Teach I Will I Will Teach How to Teach What What What am I saying?
0:46
Why can't I think of the name of your business?
0:49
Is this your intro you're giving me?
0:49
You don't even know the name of my company?
0:52
You better try that again.
0:52
I Will Teach You to Be Rich.
0:54
You know why I confuse it all the time?
0:55
It's cuz one of my favorite books of all time is Felix Dennis's uh and I always confuse you you two. His is How to Get Rich. Well. Right?
1:03
Well, you want to know something even more confusing?
1:04
My new Netflix show is now called How to Get Rich. Dude, what's going on? What's up?
1:14
So, you just had a show come out two days ago or three days ago, right? Yep. How How's on Netflix. How's it been?
1:19
Are you like Have you noticed that like the revenue of your business or the podcast downloads that you have? Are they going up?
1:26
Uh the reception is like out of control.
1:29
Like I'll I'll I'll give you the numbers, but like I thought I thought the show is great.
1:34
I did not expect for it to be top 10 on Netflix.
1:40
Um the number of emails I've gotten, I just gave up on even being able to be on top of my DMs. It's just wild.
1:48
Podcast numbers, um right now the podcast is number 12 on all of Apple.
1:54
Um I'm very proud to say we have displaced Ben Shapiro.
1:56
So, you know, one bigot at a time we're going to take him down.
2:03
And uh um number of social media followers is fantastic.
2:06
Just like the best part of all is people are posting pictures from their family rooms all over the world.
2:13
And it's like you can tell a lot by seeing a family room.
2:16
You know, you can tell just a ton about someone's life.
2:17
And then you see the same show in every one of those photos.
2:22
It's it's kind of like cosmic.
2:24
It's like humanity is all watching the same thing, which is pretty cool.
2:28
You uh uh what percentage increase of uh downloads per episode has your pod gone from that?
2:33
Well, it hasn't even been out a week, so I can't even tell you yet.
2:37
But well, you can look at your current your current numbers, can't you? Of the podcast? I don't know, I guess.
2:41
I'm not as sophisticated as you. Yeah.
2:45
Yeah, I mean, I would have thought that you know how to log into things, but yeah, I understand.
2:49
I I guess I overestimated your ability.
2:51
Uh what Listen, I can only be good at a couple of things.
2:55
And then the rest I'm pretty deficient at them.
2:59
So, I've known you or me for a while now, and I've been following you for it feels like a decade.
3:03
I don't remember what year you started doing it, but it feels like you've been I mean, you've been you were like one of the OG bloggers.
3:09
So, like basically started about 20 years ago. Oh, it was 20 years ago. Wow.
3:13
So, basically I know my best friend is Neville.
3:16
I met him because I was a fan of his blog, and I found his blog because of Noah Kagan's blog.
3:23
I found Noah Kagan's blog because of probably like Tim Ferriss, and then I probably found Tim Ferriss because of you.
3:28
It was like this Illuminati of like businessy, financial bloggers, but a little bit lifestyly, and you've been doing that you were like the OG.
3:36
I remember you like would teach classes.
3:40
Like you wrote a blog post, you would like you hung up flyers on the Stanford campus.
3:44
You're like, I'm going to do uh uh personal finance class or something like that.
3:48
And then that kind kind like parlayed into one thing, which led to another thing.
3:51
Now you've got this pretty big business.
3:53
I've talked to a lot of people who work for you.
3:54
It's a pretty like amazing company that you built.
3:57
Then you came out with the podcast, and you told me you're going to come out with the podcast, and I was like, "Okay, this sounds interesting.
4:03
You're a little late to the game.
4:03
You've been doing this for 20 years." Let's see.
4:05
Your podcast is actually amazing.
4:08
You did something that I've always wanted to do, but I didn't think people would do it.
4:11
So basically, you could explain it, but you like tell or people tell you all of their finances, and they put their faces on the videos, so like it's not really anonymous.
4:17
Then you parlayed that into you've had a you know, all these books along the way.
4:23
You've parlayed that into a just a brand new Netflix show that's now one of the most popular in the country.
4:26
I mean, you've done a lot of stuff, right? Uh I love your intro.
4:29
That's like better than any intro I can give myself, so thank you.
4:32
It sounds so linear the way you say it.
4:35
Like I sat at a chessboard and just like mapped it out, but if you go into the the details of it, like it's actually crazy.
4:42
For example, yeah, I did hang up flyers, and I did try to get my friends in the dining halls in college to come to my free event, and nobody came.
4:51
For like a year and a half, nobody would come to my events.
4:55
Like I would struggle to get people to come to get a free class on money.
5:01
And I you know, I got like a handful of people over a year and a half.
5:03
And the reason for that I later learned is that people don't really like going to events about money.
5:08
It makes them feel bad about themselves.
5:09
And so I was like, "Okay."
5:11
You know, when you're young and you're like really hungry, you go, "This isn't working.
5:15
Like the world needs to hear what I have to say."
5:17
And so like you can either give up, and sometimes you should, or you in my case, I was like, "These kids are so lazy.
5:24
They don't even want to come to a free class.
5:25
I'm just going to start a blog."
5:27
And so that that's the path.
5:30
It wasn't like flyers and then Netflix show.
5:32
There's like a lot of um trying and failing in between the two.
5:39
But so you're only in your 20s when you're teaching that.
5:40
I mean, what the hell did you know about money?
5:43
Um I had gotten pretty good at money, actually.
5:45
So I started uh my dad uh you know, came from India as my mom did and my dad is pretty pretty actually savvy with money.
5:52
He got me to open up a Roth IRA when I was like 14, 15 years old.
5:57
He helped me do it with a custodial account.
5:58
And I took my scholarship money, which I got for college that first check and I put in the stock market and I thought I was a genius.
6:05
1999 everybody so cool and I lost half of that pretty fast.
6:11
Funny enough though, I kept investing cuz I was working at a pizza place.
6:13
I was doing some sales thing and so I was investing.
6:20
I used to think investing meant picking stocks.
6:21
So, I bought three stocks when I was in high school.
6:24
One of them Excite at home bankrupt. Another one JDSU.
6:31
Why the hell was I buying telecom stocks? I don't know. Bankrupt.
6:34
And then a third stock of a little company called amazon. com.
6:40
Which I've held since then and it's like awesome.
6:43
Now, the lesson for that everybody listening everyone goes, oh that's so cool. Remit so cool.
6:46
I just got to pick the next Amazon.
6:48
And Sam and I go, no you don't.
6:50
You're never going to pick the next Amazon. That was complete luck.
6:54
Do not do that strategy and the real the real lesson there is don't try to pick individual stocks.
7:02
Pick a nice target date fund or index fund and then let it ride and you will have more money than you know what to do with.
7:08
Of course, that's you and me.
7:08
If Shawn were here, he'd be telling us about some crypto [ __ ] that we talked about last time.
7:15
Which of course went down by 65% and before we continue I just like to give a big shout out to all the people on YouTube from the last episode we did who they didn't like me very much.
7:23
You know, they're the crypto guys. You saw the comment?
7:27
I [ __ ] read every comment, dude. I love it.
7:28
And they go, this guy is such a old fuddy-duddy and what I really want to do Sam is come on here and and let's go to the comment section and just see what happened to all these folks who lost 60% of their money.
7:38
I I if they're I if they think the same thing.
7:41
Yeah, anyway, it was a fun episode last time.
7:45
We uh did I don't know if you heard the episode.
7:48
I always give Sean a hard time because his opinion and my opinion on investing are are totally opposites.
7:52
But not totally opposites, but we agree we disagree on a lot.
7:56
But on the pod I was going, "Sean, so look, if I made a bet with you or like if I was a a genie and I said, 'You can only you can start your own company and invest your own money in your own company, but you can't buy crypto, you can't invest in startups, you can't do any like cash flowing things, you can't do anything.
8:14
All you could do is put it into this one thing, we'll call it an index fund, but whatever it is, and you get a regular return of 8% a year. Now, it's regular.
8:23
It's not, you know, the theoretical bit is that it's 8%, but it's it's lumpy.
8:29
But let's just say 8% every single year, but you can't you can't invest in anything else other than your business. Would you do that?'
8:34
And he was like, '100% absolutely not.'
8:36
And in my head I'm like, "Dude, that's like the greatest thing on What are you talking about?
8:40
That's the greatest thing I've ever I heard that episode. I was laughing so hard. I loved it.
8:46
Actually, it's fun to hear two people with totally different opinions.
8:49
I I will say, although I'm a like you, I'm a huge fan of index funds and average returns of 7 to 8% are actually phenomenal if you understand compound interest and time. That is a lot of money.
9:03
Does 8% double in 9 years? Approximately.
9:07
So, 72 divided by your return rate, if we say 10% nominal, it's about every 7 to 10 years it doubles.
9:14
So, yeah, you're right in the range.
9:14
And that doesn't sound like a lot if you're putting in like $1,000, $2,000.
9:18
But what people forget is that you don't just put money in once, you keep contributing.
9:24
So, it's like you've got a a train that's going faster and faster and you're pushing the train.
9:29
It starts to go really and at a certain point you can't stop the train. It's humongous.
9:35
So, um anyway, I love hearing the back and forth.
9:38
I personally was 100% with you.
9:40
I'm like, 8% all day, baby. I love average returns. That's fantastic.
9:43
But, you know, some people they think differently or they get a thrill from investing.
9:48
I don't get a thrill from investing.
9:50
I get a thrill from staying in luxury hotels. That's what I love.
9:53
But, my investing is very boring.
9:56
Well, so my money right now, I basically have, um, you know, I sold my company to HubSpot stock and a lot of that was HubSpot stock that I got. you sell it for, Sam? You going to tell us? Uh, no.
10:05
Uh, I I don't like talking about it. No.
10:08
Sam's so transparent with every other number on this show, except for how much money is in his bank account.
10:13
Sam, what's up with that?
10:13
The reported number was 27 million and, uh, you know, it was it was It was it was a right around there.
10:20
But, here's the thing is that No, I'm going to I'll I'll reveal it a little bit.
10:25
Here's the thing, which is the sale I received a whole bunch of HubSpot stock and 6 months or you guys can I think we sold February of 2 years ago.
10:31
So, you guys can go look at it.
10:34
I think the stock was $367 when we sold and then over the next year as a bunch of my stock was like, you know, I got it monthly or quarterly or something like that.
10:43
As I was getting it, it almost tripled.
10:46
So, or doubled and a half.
10:48
So, it went up it went up from $367, I think, to $870.
10:53
And so, the price like kind of materially changed.
10:54
Of course, then it went back down to like 300. Now, it's back up.
10:59
But, um, so the the price materially changed because of that. But, here's the deal.
11:06
So, I own HubSpot stocks. I haven't sold a share.
11:08
I didn't sell it when it was at its peak.
11:10
I was like, I'm just never going to log in and look at it.
11:11
We own Airbnb stock because my wife worked there and or works there and we we got a bunch of that.
11:17
And then besides that, I just own like the normal 80/20 uh, whatever I don't even know what what it's called, the normal Vanguard index fund and then like some type of like, you know, bonds, whatever's the the the normal bonds.
11:29
Besides that, it then there's a little bit of real estate, uh, but besides that, it's like nothing.
11:35
I don't really own any I've never actually sold a stock in my life. Um and that's awesome. I think it's awesome.
11:42
So many of my friends mock me. It is awesome. No, no, no, no, no.
11:44
They don't know what they're talking about.
11:47
They See, they they get the thrill out of tweaking their asset allocation.
11:49
And I go, "Listen, if it's a thrill to you, great.
11:53
But if they actually understood how much it truly cost them, they would be shocked."
11:57
You actually deeply understand personal finance.
12:00
So you know that, kind of like making turkey dinner for Thanksgiving, once you put it in the oven, you let that thing cook.
12:07
Do not fiddle around with it.
12:09
You're just messing it up.
12:10
But it's really hard, even for super smart people, especially entrepreneurs who love control, they really feel the need to fiddle around, and it's so counterproductive with investing.
12:21
So You said something really good with you.
12:23
You said something awesome on your show, which is people confuse I forget how you phrased it, but you said something about making money versus managing money.
12:29
And when I first started making money, I was like, "Oh, great.
12:33
Now I Now I'm very confident.
12:35
I feel like, "I'm pretty good at making money.
12:37
I'm in the 99th percentile of income like making income."
12:42
And then I was like, "Well, that's pretty easy.
12:43
I could do this real estate thing, and I can do this deal, and this thing."
12:46
And then I started getting into it, and I'm like, "Shit.
12:48
I'm not great at that because I'm creative, and I can invent things from scratch.
12:56
But when it comes to investing, that's not always It's more about like due diligence and about like running financial like for a a real estate company, oftentimes it's more close to just being really good at Excel than it is like, you know, inventing something from scratch.
13:08
And you said that on the show the other day when I was watching, and I I thought that was like amazing, and I didn't actually learn that until I made a few expensive mistakes of managing versus making. Oh, that's cool.
13:20
Yeah, that's totally true.
13:20
And I think there's three.
13:21
There's making, managing, and spending.
13:24
All three very distinct skills, and everybody primarily focuses on the first, making money. I understand why.
13:32
People want to make more money.
13:34
The managing money feels very dry, and therefore people are incentivized and driven to make it sexy and mess up and do things.
13:41
And then spending, no one really consciously thinks about.
13:46
You know, I always say people Everybody teaches us how to save, nobody teaches us how to spend meaningfully.
13:51
So, those three models would be good if anyone's really thinking about how to live a rich life, specifically around their money.
13:56
It's like, think about those three models, and think about what it would take to be really good for each.
14:04
I don't I'm not good at the spending thing, and like there's been multiple times where I've called you and I'm like, "I'm going to go to Europe."
14:09
And you go, "Oh, I'll I'll tell you what to do, but only one rule, no budget."
14:12
Or I'll be like, "I want to dress better."
14:17
And you say, "Great, I'll have a list of cool stores, one rule, no budget." And Yeah.
14:22
you're pretty dogmatic on a on a handful of things, and you're somewhat you. To you.
14:27
I wouldn't say that to a school teacher.
14:28
I say it to a rich dude who sold his company for a lot of money.
14:32
So, I go, "Listen, if you're going to be if you're going to be looking at the price tags and and you're going to be looking through the money lens of cost."
14:38
Imagine you put on a pair of glasses and it's cost.
14:39
I go, "I'm not doing that with you. You're too rich.
14:41
You can't be looking at cost.
14:43
There are other money lenses for a guy like you to use, which is totally appropriate."
14:47
But when did you feel comfortable spending?
14:51
Late 20s, I started to make it a practice to get good.
14:53
I'll give you an example, cuz fitness, we both love fitness.
14:57
Dude, I follow all your videos.
14:59
I'm like, this guy What are you doing, the combine or something? That was hilarious.
15:03
So, Sam Sam's posting all this like insane stuff he's do- doing like 60-in vertical jump or whatever. It's like crazy.
15:09
Your squats are like out of this world.
15:12
I'm like, "God, this guy. How does he do it?"
15:14
Anyway, you know, I had to have a little fun with Sam, so I go, "Hey Sam, nice uh 375 squat.
15:20
Why don't you try practicing for a spelling bee?
15:24
AND UH TRY SOMETHING CHALLENGING, SAM.
15:29
DUDE, IF I CALLED YOU A douche and everyone thought we were actually angry at each other. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
15:33
So, but but you're you've always been comfortable I mean like Dude, I just feel guilty buying a $2,000 like jacket.
15:40
I And also it doesn't necessarily bring me joy, which is a whole 'nother thing.
15:43
But I also definitely feel a sense of Yeah, that's like I think value that's valid or that's a valid thing, but I don't I feel guilty.
15:51
You don't have guilt around spending? No, never. Let's talk about why.
15:54
So, when I was in my late 20s, I was like, "Okay, I want to learn how to get fit."
15:59
I never knew about fitness when I was young.
16:01
We didn't even use the word protein in my house.
16:02
Like we it was not a thing. Really? Yeah, no.
16:06
Like if if you told my my parents that a Coca-Cola has 40 g of sugar, they'd be like, "You might as well tell me there's a billion grams because I don't know what that means." You know what I mean? Like that means nothing. So, same.
16:17
So, so now I'm like really confused cuz I'm like, "How does Sam look so good if he didn't even learn about protein?" I learned.
16:23
Like I I was Well, I was a college athlete but and so I knew about fitness.
16:27
And then once I started once I left college and got fat, then I married a woman who like cared about this stuff and she kind of like taught me.
16:35
She's like, "Hey, you know, just because this says low fat, that doesn't mean that that's good for you."
16:39
And I was like, "Oh, it true." Okay.
16:42
That's why men live longer. Yeah.
16:42
I like this Slim Jim is meat. Like it's good for you. This is keto, right?
16:48
Like I didn't know, you know what I mean?
16:49
It's like go-gurt is yogurt, therefore it's good. Totally. Okay.
16:53
So, when when I I didn't even like I didn't have the college athlete thing.
16:57
I did you know, I did well in school or whatever, but um when I when I graduated, I said, "I want to start like getting fit."
17:05
And it was like my mid-20s. I had a friend at work.
17:07
I was like, "Dude, can you show me how to like work out?" So, I was pretty skinny.
17:13
I was a really skinny guy and you hear clues in the world whether it's with work or with fitness or whatever, the world gives you clues as to where you stand.
17:22
And that can be true even in meetings, like if somebody shows up 5 minutes late repeatedly, that's a clue.
17:30
Maybe you're lower on the power totem pole.
17:32
And you've kind of got to learn to read the clues to know where you stand.
17:35
And I remember multiple people when I was in college calling me skinny.
17:37
Now, as a guy, that's actually not a good thing to be called, at least I didn't like it.
17:44
And so I just thought that I'm genetically skinny, you know, that's just how I am, skinny Indian guy, hahaha.
17:50
But I didn't want to do it anymore.
17:50
And so a friend of mine showed me how to work out, and he was like, "Okay, do you like to eat um like spaghetti?" I was like, "Yeah."
17:58
He's like, "Do you like bread?" I was like, "Yeah."
18:00
He's like, "Do you like milk?" I was like, "Okay."
18:03
He goes, "Hmm, yeah, you need to eat all of that." And I was like, "Huh?"
18:05
And that that was just like, "Oh, what I thought I was doing was actually not getting me the goals I wanted."
18:12
So I started to eat more.
18:13
I actually started to track it, and I realized what I thought I was eating was totally off base, just common for all of us.
18:20
Um but it took me until my late 20s when I moved to New York, and I get there and like everyone looks great. Yeah.
18:25
Just everybody looks good, fashion-wise, fitness.
18:28
I'm like, "Did everyone attend the class that I was absent for?
18:30
How the hell does everybody know how to hem their pants correctly?"
18:33
And so I lived right by a gym.
18:36
It took me 4 months to get the courage to walk into that gym and say, "I want a personal trainer."
18:42
It had nothing to do with money. I had money.
18:46
But I knew that once I said that, I would actually have to follow through.
18:51
And so I finally got the courage, 4 months, I walk across the street, go in the gym, pick this guy the random trainer who happened to be walking by.
18:57
He was actually great, strength trainer, and I ended up training with him for about 5 years, and I learned so much before I switched over to bodybuilding and training a little different.
19:07
But that that was like starting to pay for value, and I realized, "Oh my god, there you can get better results, you can get faster results.
19:15
Sometimes if you pay for a different restaurant, you get a better experience."
19:20
And that was important to me, while at the same time there are other things I just don't care about, and I don't pay for it at all.
19:27
On the show, there was there's this couple, they're like maybe only 38 or 39.
19:33
They're but they're a grandparents. I forget their names.
19:34
Um Yeah, Monique and Darnell.
19:37
Yeah, and I and they're very likable.
19:39
But I got so angry watching them because on the show, they you say and I hate I hate this experience that what you what you did with these people and cuz it happens to me sometimes.
19:51
They sat down and they expressed everything they want in life or at least everything they want help from.
19:57
And they say, "We struggle with this."
19:59
And you say, "All right, here's the plan.
20:00
Does everyone agree to the plan?"
20:01
And they go, "Yes, we totally agree to this plan.
20:04
This will help us get to where we want to go."
20:05
That plan includes selling a whole bunch of stuff from a storage unit.
20:09
It includes not spending a certain amount of money.
20:13
And so not buying I think he was spending $500 or $600 a month on video games or something crazy.
20:17
And then you fast forward 2 weeks later, and he orders this big box and they open the box and there's literally like eight pairs of jeans and like a $120 pair of shoes.
20:29
And you're like, "What the hell, man?
20:32
We you said you wanted this and we agreed that the actions are this."
20:35
And and then he tries to like justify.
20:37
He goes, "But I need these jeans."
20:38
And there's literally eight pairs of them.
20:41
Then there's this other woman who has this $1. 1 million house.
20:43
She goes, "I'm I'm you know, my kids are grown now.
20:46
I don't need this huge house.
20:47
I'm going to sell it and get a smaller house just cuz I don't want to take care of this."
20:52
Fast forward a few weeks later, she sold the house, she went and bought a $2.
20:54
2 million house that's even bigger, and she goes, "Yeah, but I need this." And Yeah.
21:00
it pissed me off so much that these people were doing this, and I was like, "What the hell, guys?
21:06
Where's the discipline in this?
21:08
And I think that that's like a huge difference between like some people and other people that like achieve certain things.
21:14
I just want to like nail it in their heads like you guys you realize how like you're you're a hypocrite to yourself right now. Uh you know what I mean?
21:22
Uh well, I so I'll tell you you know when I was in my early 20s starting with my you know showing people how to invest and stuff.
21:30
I was super judgmental like super and it's like oh my God like you need to open up a Roth IRA.
21:35
Do you understand how 7% compounds?
21:39
And I could actually see people's eyes glaze over.
21:42
I could basically see their soul leave their body.
21:44
I'm just like oh this isn't connecting but I didn't know how to read the clues.
21:48
I thought if I push him harder if I show him another chart they'll get it.
21:52
Um and I can tell you that that doesn't work.
21:56
And so when you're saying that you hated this I'm actually smiling because I kind of love that.
22:03
I love when people say one thing and do another because to me it's like that beautiful contradiction of humanity.
22:11
All of us say we want something and we do something different.
22:17
And to me it's like a puzzle.
22:17
Okay, I know that you're doing that in the domain of money. I totally get it.
22:20
I've seen it a million times.
22:23
So how can I figure out a way to reach you which gets you to see the contradiction and change your behavior not me to impose it on you.
22:34
Totally different view and I think much more effective.
22:36
That's what you see on the show.
22:39
Yeah, well you are patient and like it just but it still angered me because I liked them.
22:43
They're very likable and you want them to win.
22:47
It's like Ramit show it's it's kind of like Queer Eye for the Straight Guy but for like money.
22:50
Like you like root for like it's like oh we're going from zero to hero or like we're taking like someone who's like you know cute but you know we take the glasses off and all of a sudden she's a model. You know what I mean?
23:00
It's like like a like a high school movie.
23:02
But like you root for them, but I'm like you guys this is so obvious these mistakes that you're making.
23:08
It's angering me that you're this is going to make you not achieve what you want to achieve.
23:12
And that like irked me so much watching that.
23:14
Not irked, but it frustrated me. Well, I like that.
23:16
I like I want you and I want all the millions of people watching it to feel something.
23:20
And that that alone is a win because money we don't usually feel anything except overwhelm and shame.
23:27
So I like that you're watching this and going God, this is so obvious.
23:30
Now, I will say you have built discipline over like decades.
23:33
You have been practicing at it, right? For a long time.
23:38
Some of us don't even grow up with discipline in our lives.
23:41
Like I grew up with discipline around reading a spelling book literally for two and a half hours a day. I I could do that.
23:47
And I did very well at that.
23:49
But the discipline to be empathetic, I didn't really grow up with that.
23:55
I was like a utilitarian type of guy.
23:59
So I think that it's fun to watch them and like it's fun to watch people have to find their own path to get where they're going. And you know what? People are people.
24:09
Some people do it, some people don't.
24:11
That's kind of the beauty of humanity.
24:13
Not everyone is going to succeed.
24:15
And that's that's how it goes.
24:17
The other interesting thing was the same couple that I'm referring to they had this So these folks, I think their annual their household income maybe was 90 grand a year and this woman about that this woman quit her job to do this woodworking thing, which is awesome.
24:32
But they had this storage unit that I think cost $400 a month.
24:37
And we open up the storage unit and it's Sorry folks, if you're listening. It was it's garbage.
24:41
It was like a old used microwave.
24:44
It was like plastic like toys and like containers from Target. Like it was just junk.
24:49
Like the amount at which they probably spent in two months was worth more than the entire stuff.
24:53
And it and it was like Dude, why don't you selling this microwave?"
24:58
And he was, "Well, I need it."
24:59
And it that and that also bothered me because dude, Americans have so much crap.
25:05
This this couple I think is very is very normal is very average and I was shocked at how much stuff people have and it made me want to go through my closet and just get rid of everything.
25:16
I'm like, "Dude, we don't need any of this junk.
25:19
Not only does it not make you happy, it brings you down."
25:21
It was just so much stuff.
25:23
Was that normal that you think people would with so much stuff? Yeah.
25:27
Okay, so I had never gone into people's houses until a few years ago with my business.
25:32
And I had had offers from producers and stuff to go into someone's house, but it was always this sort of like go into this couple's house and then like finger wag at them and tell them all the things they're doing wrong. It's just not my vibe. I don't want to do that.
25:45
I'd actually ask them like, "What do you love spending on?
25:48
Let's go do more of that. Come on. You want a nice bag? Cool.
25:50
Let me show you how to get more."
25:53
And finally, there was a producer who is a friend of mine and she said like, "Come on.
25:57
You really got to come out. This one's special."
25:59
So, they drove me to New Jersey and I went into uh this young woman's apartment.
26:04
It was a new apartment complex, very nice. She had a Jeep outside.
26:09
And the minute she opened the door I thought to myself, "I should have done this 10 years ago."
26:16
Because you can tell so much by going into the entryway of someone's house. Okay.
26:25
At the time, I was living in Manhattan.
26:27
Most of my friends had somewhat similar apartments to me.
26:29
We kind of live in a similar way.
26:33
When I walked into her apartment, there were beautiful candles, like nice Diptyque-style candles.
26:38
There were probably 15 or 20 of them.
26:42
Those are very expensive. So, I'm taking it in. Okay, cool. She loves candles. There was a gigantic TV.
26:50
Okay, that's pretty interesting.
26:52
Uh and I asked her to pull up on her phone and read off the top 10 emails in her inbox.
26:57
It was like Target, Pier 1, you know, whatever uh stores.
27:04
This starts to tell you a lot about someone. It's basically clues.
27:06
And like you may see a living room, I see how much percentage of her net income is going to fixed costs.
27:12
And I'm able to start to figure out what's really going on with her.
27:16
Um with folks like on the show, you can totally see the amount of stuff people have and after a while that stuff starts to control them.
27:23
When I ask people like, "What's your rich life?"
27:27
almost nobody says a bunch of $10 items from Target. I can guarantee that.
27:29
They might say, "I love a beautiful sweater.
27:33
I love trips with my kids, etc."
27:33
I go, "Cool, let's spend more on that and let's cut back on the stuff that you don't care about."
27:38
And that really resonates with people.
27:42
Yeah, it's just like I I've grew up in Missouri.
27:44
I grew up with in a very normal household.
27:46
All my friends growing up were normal.
27:48
And then I go back and I look at like how I grew up and where my friends like, "Oh my god, like my parents have a stereo that still has a cassette tape player.
27:58
Like and I don't think they've turned this on in 15 years.
28:00
And it's like I'm like, "Hey mom and dad, you should throw that away. It doesn't even work."
28:05
And they go, "Oh, but you know, we're going to I'm like, "You guys you don't have a tape.
28:07
You don't even have a cassette.
28:09
You can't play anything on here."
28:11
is a great it's a great lesson is we have to be very, very conscious of the things we buy because once they come into our home and once they become part of our identity, it is almost impossible to get rid of them.
28:24
And everyone listening is like, "Oh yeah, those those people.
28:26
Why don't they just get rid of" and I'm going, "Just look in your closet."
28:29
You know, my wife is a personal stylist.
28:30
She goes in people's closets.
28:32
She helps them do closet cleansing.
28:33
She does all their image and stuff like that.
28:35
She will show me how many trash bags she fills with clothes to be donated.
28:39
Sometimes it it's a small closet. Six trash bags.
28:42
One client, I think 40 bags that were taken out and donated.
28:48
It is really hard to get rid of stuff.
28:51
That's why I, you know, for me I go, I'm going to be super careful about what I bring into my house, clothes, electronics, whatever.
28:59
When I get it, I want it to be the best.
29:01
And then when I get the best, I want to keep it for a long period of time.
29:06
Like, you don't have to do the same, but I would say develop your philosophy as to what you're going to buy and how long you're going to keep it for.
29:12
Otherwise, you're just going to end up inundated with a bunch of junk.
29:15
We had um Neil Patel on the pod and he like people got so angry at him because he goes, I spend, I think he said he spends $200,000 a month in monthly expenses and he broke that down.
29:27
And then we had another person come on and do the same thing.
29:30
I think um I think I spend, me personally, I think I don't have a kid.
29:35
Um I think we spend 20 to $30,000 a month and I remember like when I was 22 starting my company, I spent two grand a month including rent, like nothing.
29:47
And I remember thinking like if I 20 grand a month, I I can't even I can't even imagine what I would spend with 20 grand a month.
29:54
Now that I spend 20 or 30 a month, I think, oh yeah, I could make a dent with 100 grand a month.
30:00
Like that I could I I I I could I could use that.
30:01
Anything above that, I actually think it's challenging, but maybe I'll find my way one one day.
30:07
How much do you think you spend a month and have you found thresholds of like this doesn't feel any better than this lower number.
30:16
Oh, this is a great question.
30:16
Um well, I think that thresholds are to me less interesting than what are the things that I love to spend a lot of money on and what are the things I don't care about.
30:28
And I'm like extremely polarized.
30:30
And I actually want everyone to be polarized.
30:32
So for me, the worst is if people go, I spend a little bit here, I spend a little bit there.
30:37
Or I try to cut back 5% here and 5% there.
30:41
I'm just like, that sucks.
30:41
That's not an effective strategy and it's not even fun.
30:45
So you you say you say don't do $5 problems, do $30,000 problems. I think, is that right?
30:50
Don't ask $3 questions, ask $30,000 questions.
30:55
And people go like, what are you talking about Ramit? I go, let me explain.
30:56
Most people agonize over coffee and can I get an extra dessert?
31:00
And I go, that's irrelevant.
31:02
If you want to buy a coffee or two, go ahead.
31:04
That makes no material effect on your finances over the long term.
31:08
But $30,000 questions are things like what's my savings rate?
31:11
For example, do I save and invest 12% per year? Okay, great.
31:16
What if my partner and I make a agreement every year we're going to increase that number by 1%.
31:23
If you just made that decision alone, that's worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. Okay?
31:28
More than all the coffee you'll ever buy in your life combined.
31:33
What's my asset allocation?
31:33
That's a $300,000 question.
31:37
What is my debt payoff date?
31:37
If you have debt, I guarantee you do not know the exact month and year you're going to pay it off. You should know that.
31:44
So for my spending I love talking about this because I always encourage people to to come up with their money dial.
31:51
What is the thing you love spending on?
31:53
Should we just do this right now? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
31:55
Let's do this with you, Sam.
31:56
What is your What do you love spending on? What's the one thing? Flying first class.
32:01
So when I when I fly, when I fly, I like to if it's above 3 hours, it's first class. I don't get it.
32:10
I don't I don't like fancy hotels, but I like nice Airbnbs cuz I like apartments over like a smaller hotel.
32:16
I like spending on like when I like to go out to eat, I love leaving huge tips.
32:21
So if it's a good service, I like doing like 100% tips. Love it. I like toys.
32:26
So like four-wheelers and motorcycles.
32:29
I love action sports and things like that.
32:33
What else do I like to And I like services. your gym. Yeah, I got my gym.
32:35
So yeah, I so a gym would be somewhat like a toy, but I love services.
32:40
So I spend $400 a month for a trainer.
32:43
I spend another $600 a month for like a doctor who I can just ask like or sorry, nutritionist so I can ask questions to a nutritionist, cleaners, someone to come and cook.
32:53
I love services and like an assistant, someone who do my laundry, like all types of services, but not too many things. Love it. Okay, great.
33:04
So I think for everyone listening let's let's highlight a couple things on that first question. Play along with us.
33:12
So what is the thing you love spending money on?
33:14
Most people's answer is eating out.
33:16
That's the number one money dial. Number two is travel.
33:21
Number three is health and wellness.
33:22
Number four is convenience.
33:25
You basically have like all of those, but that makes a lot of sense.
33:27
You've been very successful financially, so you've added money dials.
33:30
Most people start with eating out. Okay, fine.
33:35
Pick one of your money dials which you would say is the one that gets you super pumped, super excited.
33:38
Services, so convenience. Great. Love it. I I'm the same.
33:44
Convenience is my money dial. I love it. I'm obsessed with it.
33:46
People think like I'm a serial killer when they hear how I dial all my stuff in, but like I don't care. That's what I love.
33:55
Okay, here's the question number two.
33:57
If you were to quadruple the amount you spent on that money dial, what would your life look like and feel like?
34:04
I think it would actually be awesome.
34:04
So like for example, right now I have a service that does my laundry and brings it to my door and then I have this wonderful woman who cleans my house, but she doesn't put my laundry away.
34:14
And so I what I would love to do is just say, "Hey, I'll pay you more money.
34:17
Just make sure that my closet is always organized and my clothes are put away because my clothes will just leave stay like nicely folded on the floor in my closet."
34:25
So small things like that or or uh uh like if my dog goes to the bathroom outside, like I sometimes I'll forget to clean it up and then I'll realize there's a bunch of it.
34:36
I'm like, "Ugh, I got to go clean it up."
34:38
It's nice to have someone to come and just handle all of that.
34:41
So, someone just to handle all types of cleaning and uh organizing my house. I I would love that. Okay.
34:48
I think uh I like your answers, but I think you got to dream a little bigger.
34:51
You could get all that with like a hundred bucks a week. Dude, I I think face.
34:55
Everybody Everybody look at Sam's face.
34:56
He's like lost right now. Go ahead.
34:57
I'm going to take you with me on this.
35:00
I think I'm quite bad at like dreaming big.
35:05
Yes, that's why I'm here. All right, Sam. Say, what do we do now? What else would you do?
35:15
I said quadruple, not at a hundred dollars a week.
35:19
Um I would have an assistant come to my home twice a week and we would go through my to-do list. Love it. What else? Think about traveling.
35:27
Think about cleaning your car.
35:29
Think about uh how you uh travel with your family.
35:36
Um it would be awesome to fly private occasionally with my whole nucleus fam- my my nuclear family.
35:43
And who would coordinate all of that? Right now, me.
35:47
Well, not in this quadruple scenario.
35:50
I'm going to have I'm going to say Amanda.
35:51
Me and my family want to go from St.
35:53
Louis to New York around this date. Hook it up.
35:56
There's going to be eight of us.
35:57
Just tell me where to show up or have a car there. Love it. Love it.
36:01
And then um you mentioned that you love tipping, which I love, too.
36:05
I am a huge fan of huge tips.
36:07
I've told people like part of your rich life very likely should be generosity. How would that fit in?
36:12
Like the person who cleans your house, what might you do in terms of spending more there?
36:17
Um I would probably So, like over Christmas, I gave her a two hundred dollar bonus.
36:23
Um I think it would have been cool to say, "Here's a thousand dollars. Just thanks. There you go." All right, love it. This is awesome.
36:27
Okay, so for again for everybody listening, the question is you already identified your money dial, the thing you love.
36:33
Now, what if you could quadruple your spending?
36:34
Now, I'll tell you what I loved about Sam's answer and then I'll tell you what was different about Sam's answer than most people's answer.
36:41
So, Sam was immediately like, oh, he knew exactly what he would do.
36:46
He's like, my clothes sit on the floor of my closet, which by the way is barbaric, Sam.
36:50
That's So, he goes, I'm going to get someone to hang them up. Okay, great.
36:54
By the way, every all I feel like most of my friends my closest friends are Indians.
36:58
The Indians that I'm friends with, like Neville, they're always immaculate. There's never clutter. Of course. There's never clutter. Oh, yeah.
37:07
Yeah, and they their clothes are Yeah, well, it's that Thank you for saying that. Immaculate. I love that. I'll take that. The immaculate Indian.
37:14
just at Neville's house today and I'm like, Neville, you never have clutter.
37:17
You just it's always everything's perfect. Wow, Neville. My man.
37:20
Okay, he's going to be so happy to hear this, man. I'm sure.
37:25
people talking about you behind your back and actually saying nice things. No, he's immaculate. That's the best. Okay.
37:31
What is different about Sam's answer than most people is that, you know, he's talking about fairly expensive things, right? Private jet, etc.
37:37
Now, don't let that turn you off.
37:40
I'll tell you what the most common answer I get is.
37:42
I told you that people go eating out and I go, okay, if you could quadruple your spend, which is why I call it a money dial.
37:47
You could turn that dial up like a cereal dial. What would it look like?
37:51
And most people have the same linear answer.
37:53
They go, well, I'd probably have to go on a diet cuz I'd be eating out four times a week. Haha. And I go, haha.
37:59
And then I go, hey, listen, would you still eat at Chipotle?
38:05
And they're like, they stop for a second and they go, oh, probably not.
38:08
It's a human tendency that we just take what we're doing and we do it times four. Same thing, but linear. And I want to stop them.
38:17
I want to dimensionalize it.
38:20
I go, would you still eat at Chipotle? They go, "No."
38:22
I go, "Where would you eat?"
38:24
And now they're thinking.
38:24
There's a guy in DC, he goes, "I have a list of every Michelin starred restaurant."
38:29
I go, "Who would you take with you?" And he gets very quiet.
38:32
He goes, "I'd take my family because they can't afford to eat at places like that."
38:38
And so, when you're thinking about your rich life, it's so important to understand where you are today, what's important to you, and if you can spend extravagantly on that thing, what does it look like, feel like, smell like, taste like?
38:52
Because you need that crisp vision.
38:54
Otherwise, what are you working for?
38:56
Why are you going to invest and save?
38:58
And once you have that vision, I want to take my family to New York.
39:00
I want us to go to Central Park and all have a picnic there, and you can see what you're going to eat and then what you're going to do, and it's just like so beautiful, it smells fresh in the fall.
39:13
That's when it becomes much easier for me to say, "Okay, we know you want to spend extravagantly on that.
39:17
Now, show me what you want to cut costs mercilessly on."
39:21
So, that is the way that we start to craft a rich life.
39:26
What does your, you know, your the phrase, like everyone thinks or a lot of people I imagine see I Will Teach You to Be Rich and they think, "This guy's a douche."
39:33
And then whenever you change it and you say Wait, hold on.
39:37
I'm I'm never I've never heard anyone say that.
39:38
That's actually Well, shocking to me. No, I'm just kidding.
39:41
They say it on Reddit all the Yeah.
39:43
They They go They go, "Yeah, they The number one way people introduce me on Reddit is they go, "Hey, uh you should read this guy's book.
39:51
It's called I Will Teach You to Be Rich.
39:52
I know it sounds like a huge scam, but it's actually not."
39:56
And I, you know, it's been 20 years or whatever, 10 years. I go, "All right, fine. I accept it."
40:01
Well, you come up with this good line that is 100% redeems yourself, which is it's about living like what's your rich life, which is totally great because you're like, "No, it's money's a component, but like your rich life could be anything."
40:12
And so, that's actually quite redeeming.
40:15
Your rich life you said is like convenience.
40:17
So, what is your like I don't know.
40:19
How do we say this without sounding lame? Your convenience stack.
40:22
Like, what is your What is your like What What's at the play?
40:24
And what's And what's your budget for that?
40:29
Uh I have an unlimited budget Oh, so okay, come on. Quit yanking my leg. Quit being academic.
40:34
How much do you spend a month for like this amazing setup?
40:39
Well, I don't First of all, I don't think on a monthly basis.
40:40
So, you know, I don't want anyone to be thinking on a monthly basis except for your conscious spending plan.
40:45
So, in order to have a bigger perspective, you need to think on a annual perspective minimum.
40:49
So, for me, I would spend, well, if I factor it all in, probably hundreds of thousands of dollars per year on convenience.
40:59
Is 300,000 Is 300,000 the right number or or is it on the up upper side of that? Higher or lower? to say.
41:07
Let me give you an example.
41:08
Like, if I stay at an amazing hotel, which I love, would that be part of convenience?
41:14
It's quite pricey, or would it be part of like luxury or experience? I don't know.
41:17
But I'll I'll tell you like the big components of it.
41:19
So, I want to wake up in the morning and I want every single thing in its place, so much so that if I go blind, I know exactly where everything is.
41:26
So, that means my food is ready.
41:30
That means that my calendar invitations have the link in the same place, which takes me to the exact same thing. It's all convenience.
41:38
My meetings are scheduled.
41:38
Um when I travel, I have an assistant who's amazing.
41:42
Um when I travel Is that a W-2 a W-2 employee or or Okay. W-2.
41:50
Um a very experienced, seasoned executive assistant who knows how to work with other executives, who knows how to work with everybody in my life.
42:01
Um so, she would be responsible for everything from day-to-day meetings, scheduling haircuts, um complex uh travel planning, interacting with a travel advisor, things like that.
42:12
And she knows my preferences. So, we documented all.
42:13
She knows if I'm flying a 4-hour flight, this is the type of seat this is the exact seat I'm going to sit on.
42:20
And what I love about having an assistant is they become your basically your spokesperson or your right-hand person.
42:26
And so, they have to be able to interact with people at CEO levels and at every level.
42:33
Um so, that that's super important for me.
42:35
Um when we when I travel, I have a travel protocol. It gets activated.
42:37
So, it means like she will handle my email a little differently.
42:43
Um if I go if I'm going somewhere, I'll have food sent ahead to the hotel if I'm staying in certain locations.
42:49
So, it's like healthy food.
42:50
I can try to stay on plan as much as possible. Uh things like that.
42:53
So, we over time we just document it and then just becomes like part of an SOP.
42:59
Didn't you used to have like a program on like working with someone uh like that? still have it.
43:02
It's called Delegate and Done.
43:04
And this is like how to hire an assistant, like the 35-plus things that my assistant does, and actually how to run our meetings, like exactly how we run our weekly check-in meetings.
43:15
Um yeah, we have all that stuff. All templates. It's all It's awesome. I'm going to buy this. This is good. All right. What else?
43:24
We'll give you a link for the show notes.
43:26
But, that's for people who are like, "I want a assist a smoothly running system.
43:30
I want an assistant who's smart.
43:32
I'm not looking for the cheapest.
43:33
I'm looking for the best, and I want to empower them to be able to handle everything for me." That That's awesome. What else?
43:40
Um Uh what else is there? Um oh, training.
43:45
So, I have a personal trainer. Um he's awesome.
43:46
And like I go there and train with him. We have goals.
43:49
For the show, for example, I knew exactly what I wanted to look like.
43:53
And um it was funny cuz I went in to get fitted for some clothes. My wife was styling me.
43:57
And I went in and I was like, "Okay, this is the size I'm going to be."
44:01
And I was way bigger than that size at that time.
44:03
Were you Were you fat or muscle? Uh a little of both.
44:07
I was bulking, so I was more muscle, but I still had put on some fat.
44:11
And I knew I was going to start cutting.
44:13
Um and they were like trying to be very polite to me, but they were like, um we would recommend you don't go uh like that small.
44:21
And I was like, listen, I'm a professional and I know exactly what I'm going to And they were like trying to be really polite about it, but I could see them exchanging glances with each other. I was dying. I was loving it.
44:32
Cuz you know, everyone says that.
44:35
Like when you're going in for a wedding fitting or whatever, you're like, yeah, I'm going to lose like 15 lb and like no one does.
44:41
So, they're like, I'm not I'm not telling you to lose weight, but step on the scale and subtract 15 and just be that.
44:50
Yo, I was laughing so hard because my wife We've like we've trained and like we know what you know, kind of what it We trained for our wedding, for example. So, we know the process.
44:57
And I was very confident.
44:59
My trainer's awesome, etc.
45:01
And so, um I went back in for the the first fitting, nobody believed me.
45:07
I was like, just do what I said, please.
45:09
And then I came in for the next fitting, and I wanted to play a trick on them.
45:13
So, I was like, from the fitting room, I was like, oh my god, this doesn't fit at all.
45:21
But it actually like everything fit perfectly.
45:23
And so, that is an example where like getting help, right?
45:25
For convenience, for what's the look, what's the training protocol, that kind of stuff is is important.
45:32
Was it Was filming the show what you thought it was going to be?
45:34
I mean, what's Shawn's always wanted to have a Netflix show.
45:36
What I mean, what what do people not know about it? him about it. Yeah.
45:40
Um okay, so I have filmed before like in in a studio with my crew, things like that.
45:49
This was completely different.
45:49
Like it was on a whole 'nother level.
45:52
So, I'll give you some examples.
45:53
Um the week before the show started filming, they finally found an office in LA, literally one 7 days before, and they designed it.
46:05
And they were like, "Come on in and walk through it and give us your feedback on the design."
46:09
So, first of all, they designed it in 24 hours.
46:10
That means they took a blank office and put a full design in there.
46:16
So, I walked in and I was like, "Uh it looks like a white person is selling their Airbnb.
46:22
Like it has like all geometric shapes on the like wood."
46:27
I'm like, "NO, IT'S NOT ME."
46:27
Like a live, laugh, love sign, like a neon sign. Yes, exactly.
46:31
I was like, uh "This is not me."
46:33
So, then Yeah, uh yeah, exactly. Work.
46:35
And I was like, "We're not doing this.
46:39
No, not for a in Netflix show."
46:41
So, then they were like, "Oh, well, do you have any suggestions for us?"
46:44
Of course, I had a Pinterest board of like interior design home offices that I pulled out.
46:48
And my style is wood, stone, Japanese design, minimalism, and basically like an unlimited budget.
46:57
And they took one look at that and they just started laughing cuz they're like, "Dude, what are you talking about?
47:02
We have a budget and we have like 2 days to finish this office."
47:05
So, anyway, we hashed it out.
47:05
We came up with something that I think looks pretty good.
47:09
And um when I went in the first day, the crew when I'm shooting just in an office, which is a totally controlled environment, there could have been like 30 people. That is huge.
47:21
Multiple cameras, sound, producers, makeup, everything.
47:27
Uh Uh Like having a Yeah, it's like like you're performing.
47:32
It's like you're acting really, not just like shoot the [ __ ] Or not shoot the [ __ ] but you know, whatever you do when you normally record.
47:37
You're like having a conversation with someone.
47:37
Dude, if 30 people were around me, I'd be like, "Dude, I feel like a like an animal in the zoo."
47:44
Yeah, well, it's funny you say that.
47:44
I like day-to-day doing like what we're doing right now, I love it.
47:48
I feel really comfortable chatting with you or doing an Instagram thing, but being in the limelight, especially in public or for things like my birthday, I have never felt comfortable.
47:59
I like I actually dread it.
48:01
And even for for my for Yeah, for my 40th birthday, I was dragging my feet, like dragging it.
48:06
Even though it's like rich life and like I always love bringing my friends and family together and my wife noticed this and she's like like what is wrong with you? And I go, "I don't know.
48:16
It's just I was so indecisive."
48:18
She goes, "Do you want me to just plan it for you?"
48:19
And when she said that was like the magic words, like yes, please.
48:22
Because this one thing in my life I just feel so uncomfortable doing.
48:26
And once she started to do it, like it all took off. I was thrilled.
48:31
Um so this show was like for the first few days I felt a little uncomfortable.
48:36
The other unexpected part was um going to people's houses. Okay.
48:44
People open up their houses, it's the most intimate thing you can do in America is to open up your home and talk about money.
48:52
Like mo- most more Americans would be comfortable talking about their sex lives than their credit card debt.
48:57
That's actually research.
48:59
And so to really know how to make people feel comfortable with a camera crew and producers and all that, that that took some learning.
49:07
But overall, I thought the crew was amazing.
49:11
They really helped me feel good and and kind of come into my own.
49:13
Do you get paid directly to do it or are you hoping that like the Is this just marketing for everything else you do? I get paid.
49:22
I get paid as um talent, which is what they call somebody who would be a host.
49:28
So Hollywood term is talent.
49:30
And then I'm also an EP or executive producer on the show as well. So there is Yeah.
49:38
And will they fill you in on how many people watched it or is Netflix I think they're like notorious for not like telling you stuff, right? Correct.
49:44
They They There are some uh things that they release, but they don't typically share actual numbers.
49:49
Um I will say like the show came out it was number nine on all of Netflix the first day number six the next day and like the reception has been insane like way bigger than I ever thought.
50:03
Like how many how many messages are you getting?
50:04
Oh dude, I've given up on like like I usually get about a thousand to two thousand messages a day just generally like including DMs, emails, everything cuz I'm on my newsletter and all this stuff.
50:15
It when I open up Instagram in the morning it just keeps refreshing like over and over in my DMs and I'm like what am I supposed to do with this? I don't even know.
50:26
You um you uh have been like on I've noticed on Twitter I we've been friends for a while on Twitter you've become more polarizing.
50:38
And I have a feeling that part of that is on purpose. Is that true?
50:43
Like You mean polarizing because of politics?
50:46
Yeah, but also like for example I agree with you for the home so like you and I agree that buying a home you should do it because you want it not because it's a good investment because the number show it's actually not a good investment.
50:55
It could be a good investment but that's mostly luck every once in a while but do it because you want to and at best assume it's a good great store of value but it's not necessarily going to be like a wonderful return, you know.
51:07
Uh but like you will tweet like look at this I think you'll say like look at this [ __ ] they think X Y and Z when are these idiots going to believe this or no hold on I do not say that.
51:18
But I do not say that I would never call someone You say that about political stuff.
51:22
You say that about political stuff.
51:24
Sorry I I but so but you are harsh on the home buying thing and you're also harsh on other topics.
51:29
You're not harsh on that thing the home buying thing but you're like you will call people morons for mostly political stuff I think. But okay.
51:41
I I guess I have something against right-wing extremism so yeah I'm pretty straightforward and direct about that which is like I don't accept it and like [ __ ] that.
51:50
And if And I talk about raising taxes on the rich including me. I go, "Yeah, we should.
51:56
I should I pay historically low taxes. We should."
51:57
And people are kind of shocked when they hear a guy with money going, "Oh, I actually enjoy paying my taxes.
52:03
I feel really good about them and we should uh actually raise taxes."
52:09
People like, "What the hell?"
52:10
They also feel shocked when they hear a money guy saying like Buying a house actually might not be the best investment. So, it's funny.
52:16
I will say like when I talk about real estate, I definitely mix it up and sometimes people will go, "Like Ramit, you're so negative about buying a house."
52:26
And I go, "The fact that you think my advice, which is run the numbers on the biggest purchase of your life, is negative tells you how far the Overton window has shifted.
52:38
That if someone says you should actually calculate the biggest purchase of your life, that's being negative."
52:42
I go, "No, no, no, no, no."
52:43
No, you have to run the numbers and as you and I know, Sam, a lot of times it's like not that great of an investment.
52:49
Index funds could often, not always, but often outperform. More often. More often.
52:57
Yeah, depending on city and like for for everybody listening, I lived in I've rented for uh about 20 years.
53:01
I have made more money renting than I would have owning.
53:08
And I've rented in San Francisco, New York, LA.
53:10
In New York, for example, I kept a very close eye on the real estate market. It would have cost me 2.
53:17
2 times more to own the equivalent unit.
53:21
Same neighborhood, same view, same size, same number of bedrooms. 2. 2 times.
53:26
And so, if it was a $3,000 apartment, it would have cost like 62, 6,400 a month when you factor in all the phantom costs, interest, opportunity costs, maintenance. I just took the 3,200.
53:38
I just put in the the and made way more money and less hassle.
53:43
But your political thing, that's like on your list of things to do to stick out, right?
53:47
You have a list here of how to stand out.
53:49
And you say unconvention- unconventional decisions stand out. Talk politics. Yeah. Talk politics. Yes. That's what I meant. Let's talk about it. Yeah, yeah.
53:56
So, I I had this YouTube video I did many years ago, which was like why I don't talk about politics.
54:02
I think it's still up on YouTube.
54:04
And I was like, "Hey guys, I am like uh you know, I'm not going to talk about it." And I had my reasons.
54:10
And 2016 happened and I was like, "No way. No [ __ ] way.
54:13
Not in the country I grew up in where we have comments like, 'Let's ban Muslims until we figure out what's going on.'
54:22
I go, "What the [ __ ] This is This is crazy."
54:24
I stu- And you know what I studied in college, right?
54:28
I studied propaganda, social influence and persuasion, cults. I studied that.
54:34
And I start to see the same dynamics happening here.
54:36
I go, "If I can't speak up, a first-generation successful guy who was lucky and also worked hard, became successful, you know, in in the ways business and all this stuff, if I can't do it, then who can?"
54:51
And so, I started doing it and people flipped out.
54:55
The first few posts I made were like, "Um stick to finance."
55:00
I go, "First of all, they always are the same type of people who tell me this.
55:05
And and they expect, because of the way I look, they expect me to kind of roll over and be like, 'Oh, so you're right.'
55:10
I come right back at them.
55:10
I go, "I'm not going to stick to anything.
55:11
This is my feed and I'll tell you exactly what's going on.
55:15
And by the way, I happen to know a little bit more about this than you." And they are shocked.
55:18
Sh- I And I post their comments to me.
55:21
It's quite uh illuminating when you see.
55:23
So, over the last like 5, 6 years, I've actually had like thousands of conversations, thousands of political conversations. Why?
55:32
Because I actually don't get the chance to talk to people like this in real life.
55:36
People who go like um we should like cut all taxes. Taxes are theft.
55:43
And then I go like, "Tell me why?
55:45
Like what about the roads you drive on? Who should do that?"
55:46
And I I really get to understand get inside their minds.
55:50
And sometimes I post the conversations because I want you to see.
55:52
A lot of people go, "We should like we should reason.
55:54
We should have conversations."
55:54
I go, "Take a look at these conversations."
55:57
Like I'm very patient with them.
56:00
But yeah, I do think that um people are afraid to talk about their genuine political beliefs or to say like, "This is actually wrong."
56:07
Um because they're worried about what's going to happen to their business.
56:10
My business is based on my reputation and I go, "Look, if you're going to leave if if you don't agree that young people should have access to voting rights, then don't buy my book.
56:22
I'm totally fine with you leaving my community." And I believe that.
56:25
But you have a list of other things on here and some of the things I I wanted to talk about. So, what's the DNS list? Do not sell list?
56:30
And how does that make you stand out?
56:34
Well, when you so let's the the the whole concept of standing out is the world wants you to be vanilla.
56:38
I stole that line from you for your business.
56:42
Have you noticed I I I say that line all the time on this podcast? Yeah.
56:45
I appreciate you saying it.
56:45
Okay, thank you everyone.
56:47
Make sure you hear that credit. No, I I give credit.
56:49
But you you that line does the world wants you to be vanilla. I use that all the time.
56:52
And I'm vanilla by the way. I can say it.
56:58
No, I don't actually I don't think so. Okay, look.
57:00
Vanilla means the world wants you to be like everybody else.
57:04
And it comes out in peculiar ways, right?
57:06
The world wants you to be vanilla.
57:08
They go, "Sam, you're throwing money away on rent. You should buy a place." Vanilla.
57:14
And now for some people buying a house makes perfect sense.
57:15
But if you're 23 years old, you don't know where you're going to be in 3 years, it doesn't make any sense.
57:19
Um the world wants you to be vanilla.
57:21
They tell me, "Ramit, you should stop cursing on your um YouTube videos."
57:24
I go, "But that's how I talk."
57:26
And sometimes I hear stuff that's crazy.
57:28
What do you want me to say?
57:29
You want me to stop because of the algorithm?
57:31
No, I'm not living my life by an algorithm.
57:35
Um the world wants you to be vanilla.
57:37
When they told me, "Ramit, you shouldn't sell programs. That's scammy.
57:38
You should give it all away for free."
57:41
I go, "No, this is a profitable business and I'm totally comfortable charging thousands of dollars for programs that are going to change your life, start a business, find a dream job."
57:52
One of the things we did was um we decided early on that we are going to be highly selective about who we allow to be our customers. remember that. Highly selective.
58:03
And so you had a guy who was like, "I'm going into credit card debt buying your stuff."
58:06
And you go, "You're banned.
58:06
You can't buy our stuff anymore."
58:08
Yeah, I Oh, no, I've banned thousands of people. Thousands.
58:10
The DNS list stands for do not sell.
58:15
And we have a very extensive list of people who we simply will not accept their money.
58:21
So, policy number one is if you have credit card debt, you cannot join our flagship programs.
58:24
Those are the expensive ones. Why? Two reasons.
58:27
One, if if you actually understood how credit card interest rates work, you would never spend $2,000 on a program.
58:34
You would pay your debt off first, get financially comfortable, right?
58:39
And then come back to us.
58:41
And two, the type of people who join with credit card debt, they often have a lot of pressure on like they go, "This has got to work.
58:48
I'm down to my last dollar."
58:50
I go, "No, you can't make huge changes in life if you have that kind of pressure. So, slow it down.
58:57
Here's a free chapter from my book and like please don't join.
58:59
Come back when you're ready. We'll be here."
59:03
If they still join, we ban we ban ban them for life.
59:04
And I think for any entrepreneur listening, you don't have to do the same thing I do, but the point is if you really elevate yourself, you go, "Hey, I'm spending tons of time building the best product or service in the world.
59:16
Therefore, I'm going to be selective about who I allow to join my business."
59:22
Like Hermes, very selective about who they allow to buy their Birkin bag.
59:28
Think about elevating yourself.
59:28
Make sure that you're actually good enough to elevate yourself, and then be selective.
59:33
It actually builds a much better and more profitable business.
59:35
You say don't be the first mover. Wait to write a book. Start making money.
59:41
Follow your natural tendencies.
59:44
Uh so for example, I love slow long-term thinking.
59:47
Um so that's what you're going to do.
59:49
And you so you'd be horrible at starting clubs in Miami.
59:51
And then you have a framework of fast, deep, and long.
59:52
Um what So I I agree with the first mover thing.
59:58
The write a book thing, I actually agree with too.
1:00:00
Writing a book seems like a pain in the ass, by the way.
1:00:02
And what what Start making money. What do you mean?
1:00:06
Well, I think that sometimes we people believe I need to build up like this huge long audience before I start making money.
1:00:13
And that's actually what I did.
1:00:14
And I In retrospect, it caused me a lot of hardship because I was writing for free in 2004, 5, 6.
1:00:24
And when I finally sold something for $5, as a $4.
1:00:27
95 ebook, I was petrified of selling.
1:00:31
I had a pretty decent-sized audience.
1:00:34
And a lot of people got pissed off at me.
1:00:37
Really mad because they basically saw me as the free information guy.
1:00:39
And when I tried to redefine the dynamics of that relationship, people do not like that.
1:00:45
It would have been much better if I'd started off and I was like, "Hey, this is actually going to be a business."
1:00:49
Uh it would have taught me like focus on the metrics that matter, focus on things that matter.
1:00:54
And it also would have set the expectation with my audience.
1:00:56
So I went through a lot like I went through two and a half, three years of people unsubscribing from my list every day.
1:01:01
I was using AWeber at the time.
1:01:04
So you can see the reasons that they unsubscribe.
1:01:07
So every morning I woke up, there's like 75 people they're like, "You suck! You're a sellout!"
1:01:11
And I was like, "Wait, what?
1:01:14
I still give away 98% of my stuff for free. I'm selling a $5 ebook." And they were furious.
1:01:18
And that was my fault, not theirs.
1:01:27
Our software's the worst.
1:01:27
Have you heard of HubSpot?
1:01:29
See, most CRMs are a cobbled-together mess, but HubSpot is easy to adopt and actually looks gorgeous.
1:01:35
I think I love our new CRM. Our software's the best. HubSpot, grow better.
1:01:41
Wait, I have so many people who ask me, they're like, "I'm going to do a newsletter. When do I monetize?"
1:01:44
I usually tell them, or a podcast, whatever.
1:01:48
I usually tell them, I'm like, this is a huge generalization, but for a newsletter, maybe when you're at five or 10,000 people, then you could have an ad ad you could have an ad in it.
1:01:56
If you're just selling like a product, [ __ ] do it right away, like day one, have it in there.
1:02:04
And they're like, "I should do it that early?
1:02:05
It won't I like turn off my audience?"
1:02:07
I'm like, "No, you won't, but you need that money in order to do more shit."
1:02:11
And I'm like, "Also, if you turn off your audience doing this, it's the wrong thing."
1:02:14
I remember Casey Neistat Casey Neistat, um my favorite, you know, he's I love him.
1:02:21
He had uh this video where he said, "I was uh he talks about money."
1:02:24
And he goes, "I was like at peak fame in like 2016."
1:02:29
And he goes, "I was still broke because even though I had even though I had all of these downloads and people thought I was famous, I didn't have any money."
1:02:37
And he goes, "I thought I was being a cool artist by not having YouTube ads on, but I went back and did the math, and that was like uh four or five million dollars a year that I was missing out on, and I was [ __ ] broke, and it I was an idiot.
1:02:48
And so, if you're an artist out there, don't be a fool.
1:02:52
Take the money, cuz then you can keep doing more art. Listen to Sam.
1:02:56
I wish I had learned that, Sam, like early on.
1:02:58
I did not I had the same sort of thinking, like, "Oh my gosh, monetizing will turn people off."
1:03:04
And what I didn't realize is, first of all, if you're turning them off by trying to make a living, then you've got the wrong audience.
1:03:10
Better to know that early than later.
1:03:11
And a lot of times, people actually like it.
1:03:14
Like, they want to know what you recommend. So that was interesting.
1:03:18
But most of all, if you have money, it enables you to build a better business.
1:03:23
Better people, better design, better talent, better all of it.
1:03:28
And I didn't get that for a few years. I wish I had.
1:03:33
Uh we'll wrap up in a second cuz I know you're we're at we're at the hour, but one last question, which is uh sometimes people come to me and they'll be like, you know, my personal brand is really tied up in my company's brand and that will make it hard because maybe I want to sell my company.
1:03:50
So, have you ever thought about selling I Will Teach You to Be Rich? Would you ever sell it?
1:03:54
And is it sellable being so tied to you?
1:03:59
I don't think it's sellable in the way that I would need to maintain my reputation.
1:04:03
I have had um some interest in selling the business.
1:04:09
Um I remember I got invited I was at a party in New York and this kind of mysterious guy comes up to me and he had a very generic name and he he was like, "Oh, nice to meet you."
1:04:20
But he knew a lot about my business.
1:04:23
Like more than any normal person would know.
1:04:25
He knew like the way I structured my funnels.
1:04:28
He knew basic conversion rates.
1:04:30
I was like, "Who in the hell is this guy?"
1:04:33
He goes, "Hey, I'm going to be in town in a couple weeks.
1:04:37
I'd love to get together for breakfast." I was like, "Cool."
1:04:41
So you know what I was like pretty young guy.
1:04:43
I was working out of coffee shops, stuff like that.
1:04:46
He invites me to the Four Seasons in Midtown for breakfast.
1:04:49
I was like, "What the hell?"
1:04:51
He knew how to tickle your fancy, man. You like fancy hotels?
1:04:54
Yeah, I was like, "Hmm, okay, let's go."
1:04:56
So we get there and uh it's four people including me at the table, three other guys and him.
1:05:03
So I was like "Cool, like this is weird, but like let's let's do I don't know what's going on here."
1:05:08
So I'm chatting with the guy, he's very nice.
1:05:11
And one guy's uh kind of like silent, and the other guy is sitting there with his arms crossed and just listening.
1:05:17
I'm trying to figure out like what's the power dynamic here? What's going on?
1:05:22
And at one point, one of the guys, the guy with the crossed arms who wasn't saying much, um he mentioned that he like vacations in North Carolina or something like that.
1:05:32
And I go, "Oh, like how far is the place from the airport?"
1:05:36
I don't know why I asked that question, but we were talking about it.
1:05:37
And he said something like, "Oh, it's like a 5-hour drive."
1:05:40
I go, "Wow, that's a long drive."
1:05:42
He goes, "Oh, I don't drive. I take a helicopter." Bingo. Oh, got it.
1:05:47
Okay, got Now I understand what's going on.
1:05:49
So, they wanted to buy a percentage of the business, over 50%.
1:05:56
And they wanted to, you know, basically hyper monetize it.
1:05:59
Now, my business could make a lot more money if I got more aggressive with my offers.
1:06:04
We don't really run Facebook ads.
1:06:06
So, for us to win on Facebook, we would need to get much more aggressive than we're willing to. Like, I have a brand. I have a reputation.
1:06:13
Also, I already have the name I Will Teach You To Be Rich.
1:06:17
I actually love when people come, they expect to get this hard sell, and they're like, "Oh, this guy went to Stanford. He has a Netflix show.
1:06:21
Like, you can get his book, a lot of it for free."
1:06:25
Like, it's you know, it's it kind of you're like, "Oh, I'm surprised." I didn't sell. I told him point-blank.
1:06:32
And I even thought to myself like, "What would I do with the money? My life is great. I had an assistant. I had a trainer. I was like, "I'm good.
1:06:40
Like, what am I going to do with the extra money?"
1:06:42
I'm actually really glad I did not sell because the business went through a big growth spurt in the next few years.
1:06:48
But now I have the dream that I love.
1:06:48
I have a 100% bootstrapped business. I work from home. My team is amazing.
1:06:53
And like, I get to go on talk shows like this, talk about my philosophy, and then people email me with their success stories.
1:07:03
I'm like, "Dude, it It not get better than this.
1:07:05
I appreciate every day that I have this business.
1:07:07
Is there any financial or business goals that you have an as a north star where you're like, you know, in 10 years it would be cool if we did this?
1:07:16
Um I'm in a I guess I didn't expect Netflix to happen.
1:07:22
Like I was not gunning for it. It just happened.
1:07:24
So um I wanted to reach more people. That was my goal.
1:07:29
And I've now reached more people in the last week than I have in probably 10 years, which is like my I still trying to sit with that.
1:07:36
Um so I probably need to recalibrate where I want to go, but I'll tell you like one thing I know like from doing the podcast is um when I started the podcast I sat down I wrote a vision document. I never really do this.
1:07:48
And I wrote it because I knew that we were going to have to get a lot of people involved like uh editors and guests and everybody.
1:07:54
And I was like, "You know what?
1:07:56
I need to just write down my exact vision."
1:07:57
So I was like, "Here's what the podcast is.
1:08:00
Here's 20 sample uh titles that I want to do.
1:08:02
Here's the type of people. Here's what it's not.
1:08:04
It's not a podcast about compound interest calculations."
1:08:10
And when I wrote that, I realized that the number one, the podcast has to be fun for me.
1:08:16
If it's not fun, I'm not doing it.
1:08:18
And I would imagine you have a similar thing.
1:08:20
Like once you make a certain amount of money, you go, "Okay, like what is the other meaning?" It's got to be fun.
1:08:25
And if it's not or it's not like reaching the right people, I'm just not into it.
1:08:30
Want to I you you know, for all for everything bad he's done, he said something amazing, which is Kanye West said something uh he goes, uh I do dope [ __ ] And uh or he you know, there he was there's a story of him with Dave Chappelle and Dave Chappelle's uh you know, Kanye's backstage at Dave Chappelle's show. Someone calls Kanye.
1:08:52
And Dave is retelling the story and Dave goes or Kanye goes, "Hey, yeah, I can't really talk right now because I'm backstage with Dave Chappelle watching never-seen-before clips of his show right now.
1:09:02
And then he goes, "Yeah, because my life's dope and I do dope shit." And he just hung up.
1:09:07
And uh And then he like And then he like, you know, at like in the past couple years he gave this interview.
1:09:16
He's like, "Money's cool, but like I just want to do dope shit."
1:09:18
And he like keeps repeating this like I need to start talking like this now.
1:09:24
I'm like I'm like what kind of celebrity [ __ ] do I need to say now that I have a show?
1:09:27
Like what do I need to know?
1:09:28
Meanwhile, I'm just this internet dork who sits on Twitter.
1:09:30
I make a joke about real estate or asset allocation and then I'm like, "All right, that was a good day."
1:09:35
I go take a nap on the couch.
1:09:35
I'm like, "I got to learn what these guys are doing."
1:09:39
Well, me and Shawn have a joke, but I I I truly live this way.
1:09:42
I'm like, "Would my 12-year-old be proud of the [ __ ] that I'm doing now?" You know what I mean?
1:09:48
Like am I Because like heard you talk about this. It's It's crazy.
1:09:52
When you said it like that, would my would your 12-year-old self or my 12-year-old self Like I heard you say this the other day. I went home. I told my wife.
1:10:00
And I told her like my 12-year-old or even 20-year-old self would not believe it.
1:10:06
Would not believe that I'm married to you.
1:10:12
Would not believe that we travel the way we travel, that I have a business like this.
1:10:17
Like a team that's like awesome.
1:10:17
You can like talk to celebrities and [ __ ] Yeah, it's awesome. Yeah. Yeah.
1:10:22
By the way, I'm getting these DMs from celebrities like athletes.
1:10:26
You know I don't know anything about sports, right? Same.
1:10:28
And they're always like I saw you tweeted you're like, "I'm from the Phillies" or something.
1:10:34
Yeah, I'm from the Eagles.
1:10:34
And I'm like, "Is that a basketball team?"
1:10:36
And like they don't even reply.
1:10:38
I'm like THIS IS I'M LIKE, "DUDE, I'M NOT EQUIPPED FOR THIS WORLD."
1:10:43
Like all these Oh, dude, it's so funny.
1:10:45
When when when Netflix emailed me when the the first time they emailed me, they were like, "Oh, hi.
1:10:53
Like you know, we'd love to talk to you about a project.
1:10:56
Um, do you have representation or should we like speak to you directly?
1:10:59
And I was like, "What the hell is representation?"
1:11:01
Like, I didn't even know what they were talking about.
1:11:04
Like, I didn't have a entertainment lawyer.
1:11:06
I didn't know how to find one. I went on Google.
1:11:08
I literally typed "entertainment lawyer."
1:11:12
And I looked through the list.
1:11:15
And like, that's how I found an entertainment lawyer.
1:11:16
And like, I had to learn this industry like seriously from the ground up.
1:11:22
And then it took me like a couple of years to truly start to scratch the surface because in Silicon Valley it's very different. Way different.
1:11:31
someone, they'll take a meeting.
1:11:31
Yeah, it's like but the the industry dynamics are different. Like, subtle things.
1:11:36
Like, for example, engineers are kind of regaled as like the most valuable.
1:11:38
Okay, well, what's the equivalent in Hollywood?
1:11:42
That's not obvious from the outside.
1:11:44
And um, what are the like cultural mores? It's not obvious.
1:11:47
So, dude, I'm just at the very beginning of learning this stuff, but it's actually really cool to be a student of a new industry and learn like, "Oh, that's how things are done here."
1:11:59
And oh, there's actually kind of a reason why.
1:12:01
We've just gotten popular enough now that some of the agents, you know, like the what's it?
1:12:07
CAA and I forget the other three. Yeah.
1:12:08
Uh, there's like two or three of them where they're actually starting to talk to us. Mhm.
1:12:13
And I I'm incredibly turned off by the whole process.
1:12:16
I I find it to be very off-putting.
1:12:18
And I like I have to remind myself, "Well, you know, there could be a reason why this exists."
1:12:22
And then I start talking to them like, "Well, these guys seem pretty nice and they're making a lot of sense."
1:12:26
But then in the back of my head I'm like, "These people are [ __ ] sharks.
1:12:29
They're going to steal from you.
1:12:30
They're going to like They're like Like, you know what I mean?
1:12:32
Like, it's like this hard uh, dichotomy.
1:12:36
Uh, Wait, we got to talk about this.
1:12:36
Like, if you ever want to like chat about it cuz I know I know these folks. And Do you like it? Are they legit?
1:12:45
Um, yeah, that's like a weird question. Are Are they legit?
1:12:49
Is like, is a recruiter legit?
1:12:51
I mean, it depends for what you're going for. stop.
1:12:54
If you you know, you're in a unique perspective because number one, you have this huge podcast.
1:12:59
You and Shawn have built this amazing thing and like the personality, the events you've built is like crazy.
1:13:06
I mean, I watch from the early days and I've really gotten into your podcast in the last year and I'm just like, oh, you guys are like firing on all cylinders.
1:13:14
You guys are leaning into what you guys do best.
1:13:18
how how fast it is, by the way.
1:13:18
Our events are way more half-assed than you think. Really?
1:13:23
Dude, the photos look incredible. They're great.
1:13:25
They're great, but like they're thrown together. Yeah. Really?
1:13:28
You just show up and just like hang? [ __ ] that's insane.
1:13:29
Okay, anyway, it looks great.
1:13:32
Um and then you're you know, you already have money, so you're not like super profit motivated unless it's like the right opportunity.
1:13:39
It's you and Shawn, you got HubSpot involved.
1:13:41
So, there's a lot of unique things, but one thing I learned in Hollywood is take the meeting.
1:13:45
Always take the meeting, which is different cuz I turn down nine out of 10 things.
1:13:49
I'm just like, nope, nope, nope.
1:13:51
But if you want it's all relationship-based way more than tech, way more.
1:13:57
Um just to give you an example, a lot of lawyers, um PR firms in Hollywood, they will not even take your call even if you're ready to hire them.
1:14:05
Like you have a fat check, they will not even take your call if you're not referred by an agent or someone else like that. That's mind-blowing.
1:14:16
That pisses me off, you know, I love Jay Leno.
1:14:18
Jay Leno has his own You're not into cars, I don't think, but he's got this really cool show called um having a Honda Accord not count as being into cars?
1:14:26
Unfortunately not, my friend.
1:14:28
It does not, but Jay Jay Leno has a thing called Jay Leno's Garage and he tells you the history of the car and why it's cool.
1:14:35
And he's got this funny bit where he talks about Ferrari.
1:14:36
He refuse you know, Jay Leno probably has 500 or 1,000 cars and they're all like historical and important and he goes, someone was like, why aren't there any Ferraris here?
1:14:45
He goes, I refuse to buy a Ferrari." And he goes, "Why?"
1:14:47
He goes, "Because they you have to get on a wait list and you have to like get on a wait list to buy one in order to buy the next one.
1:14:56
So, in order to buy like for example, let's say there's like a GTO 250, which is like a $30 million car.
1:15:02
They only made five of them, whatever.
1:15:03
It's like this really rare car and it's like art."
1:15:05
And he's like, "I would love to own one cuz I think they're awesome, but they make you buy the entry-level one, then you have to get on a waiting list to buy the next one and you can't sell it.
1:15:14
You have to do all these rules."
1:15:15
He goes, "I refuse to bow down to that [ __ ] and I'm not going to play that game.
1:15:19
I just want to I I I just Now, he's like, "I realize it's not like the everyman.
1:15:23
I'm not like the everyman, but in some regard like I just don't want to like jump through the hoops.
1:15:27
I just want to say if I'm willing to give you money, please let me have it."
1:15:30
And so, I refuse to buy a Ferrari for that reason. Same thing.
1:15:33
And you're talking about like Hermes.
1:15:34
I'm like, "Dude, I'm not going to get on a [ __ ] list to buy this [ __ ] That's bullshit." Yeah, yeah, yeah. I I agree.
1:15:38
I respect that he is like, "No, I'm not going to play that game." I love that.
1:15:42
At the same time, I also understand why a luxury business does that.
1:15:46
So, there's a couple of great books on luxury and and there's this phrase um when the CEO of Volvo sees two Volvos on a city block, he's happy.
1:16:00
When the CEO of Porsche or Rolls-Royce sees two, he gets worried.
1:16:07
And I think that that's right on.
1:16:07
Luxury is a totally different beast.
1:16:09
It's a totally different way of marketing.
1:16:11
You don't want too many people to have it and so, you create these barriers.
1:16:14
Um By the way, I listened to this uh this Rolls-Royce uh podcast.
1:16:19
So, I like I love I'm not like Rolls-Royce to me, the look of it is a little gaudy for me.
1:16:28
And also, I'm not really a car guy, but one day I'm going to buy a sweet car.
1:16:32
Like it's going to be amazing.
1:16:32
People are going to be like, "This [ __ ] guy told Maybe Bentley, maybe Rolls-Royce.
1:16:36
Like I love the craftsmanship of it.
1:16:38
Like the perfection of it.
1:16:40
And that's like that's one of the reasons I love beautiful clothes.
1:16:43
Like they're handmade, hand stitched, everything is absolutely perfect.
1:16:47
I've gone to the factory in Italy where I saw the absolutely beautiful well-lit factory floor and I saw them making these beautiful cashmere sweaters and I go, I appreciate that they are paying well, that everything's done by hand.
1:17:00
They have a school in Solomeo where they're teaching the next generation of artisans and craftsmen. That's fantastic.
1:17:06
So, I have a love of craftsmanship.
1:17:10
But anyway, um I'm listening to Rolls-Royce came out with a podcast which is genius cuz if you're going to buy a $500,000 car, you're going to listen and research every last detail you can about the car.
1:17:21
And yeah, I just I'm obsessed with the details of the leather and the color matching.
1:17:26
And you know, if you get a custom color on a Rolls-Royce, it's now your color.
1:17:31
Nobody else can ever use it from Rolls-Royce.
1:17:35
If they want it, they have to ask your permission to use it.
1:17:36
I'm like, "Okay, that's cool. Not Not for me today. Maybe someday. One day."
1:17:43
What's the Let's wrap up here, but tell me what's the What are the luxury books?
1:17:47
I want to write them down.
1:17:47
I want to read them, too. All right.
1:17:48
So, one of them is called The Luxury Strategy.
1:17:54
Uh another one is called Capfer on Luxury.
1:18:00
And uh Those are two that'll get you started.
1:18:05
I think those are really good ones. Cool.
1:18:06
What are you reading right now?
1:18:10
Uh I'm reading a lot of stuff about the mob, about the mafia. Okay.
1:18:14
Uh so, I like crime stuff.
1:18:16
Uh I am What else have I read recently?
1:18:18
It's lots of crime stuff, unfortunately.
1:18:19
I'm rereading a book on Joseph Kennedy.
1:18:24
Joseph Kennedy, you know, father of JFK.
1:18:26
He's a really controversial person.
1:18:26
He basically got rich off insider trading, then became the first head of the SEC, made insider trading illegal, incredibly unfaithful to his wife, but kind of a really good father.
1:18:36
kind of a really good father. so a lot of like interesting things a lot of people don't know that Joe Kennedy was like the seventh richest person in America so JFK was like not just wealthy but really wealthy so I'm rereading a
1:18:47
book on him and I'm rereading a book on the American capitalism between 1910 and 1920 it was highly unregulated so like the Andrew Carnegie's of the world Jay Gould John Rockefeller they were really fascinating because it was like super cutthroat and so I'm rereading about that. Oh let me just share what I'm
1:19:04
Oh let me just share what I'm reading right now too.
1:19:07
Um one is called unreasonable hospitality.
1:19:11
And in that's the guy who used to run a very high-end restaurant in New York.
1:19:16
Another one is called customers for life this is by a guy who ran an auto dealership just like really nitty-gritty business I just love that.
1:19:24
Um I got one called the power of the past this is awesome for anyone who listens to my podcast you'll hear me talk about money and class class is not really talked about in America but it exists it's the power of the past by Jesse Strieb.
1:19:37
And then um uh color of law is one I'm rereading on real estate redlining and race in history so anyway those are a couple few books I'm reading. Or for me I like this.
1:19:49
Yeah dude I was just thinking I just wrote a note I should have a podcast just on books just asking like interesting people what they're reading and why.
1:19:57
Oh dude I would I would love that.
1:20:00
Well I just I we just had listener and I'll definitely come on that's a great great idea.
1:20:04
Yeah I mean cuz that's always like a one of my favorite parts is ask people what they're reading and why but dude I appreciate you doing this man you're you're the man I thank you for your friendship thank you for doing this congratulations on the show it's freaking awesome my wife and I were watching all day yesterday. Uh Really? Oh my god.
1:20:20
I sent you the video of us me that.
1:20:25
Dude to to know that you guys are watching this which I spent like years doing kept it quiet for that long and to know that it's like inside your house and the two of you are connecting over it.
1:20:35
Like honestly the highest praise for someone who creates anything. So, thank you. It means a lot.
1:20:40
It was awesome and I appreciate you doing this. Thanks for everything. Thank you, dude. That's the pod.