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Fencing literally saved my life.
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>> Fencing is known for being a notoriously white sport.
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Talk to me about what it felt like getting to the Olympics winning bronze.
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>> My mom always just said, "Just win."
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And then, what can they say? I'm the best now.
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I'm still the 12-year-old kid just 6'5 covered in tattoos.
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Winning is great, but changing a sport is bigger than any Olympic gold medal I could ever win.
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>> Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the place you come to become happier, healthier, and more healed.
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Today's guest is not only a friend, but someone who I'm so fascinated to dive into his mindset.
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I love top performers, people who are operating at peak places and making incredible impact happen across the world in their field, and this is one of those people.
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Miles Chamley-Watson is an Olympic medalist redefining the sport with his style, confidence, and a vision that's pushing it far beyond what it's ever been before.
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Miles Chamley-Watson, welcome to On Purpose. >> Well, thank you.
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That was an absolutely incredible intro.
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>> [laughter] >> It's an honor to be here, honestly.
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Before I kind of got to meet you, it's really nice to be a fan of your work, and I think you instill some incredible ideas on people, make them feel better, which the world needs more than ever.
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So, thank you for that, and it's an honor.
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>> Dude, we met in the best way possible.
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I felt like we were on a boys' trip, which is what it felt like, and it just turned out to be like the easiest conversation.
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You guys like invited me into the wolf pack, which made me feel really really comfortable.
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We played poker from 11:00 p. m. to 7:00 a. m. three nights in a row.
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We were out on the water.
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We were hanging It was It was amazing, and I just You know, I know that I was kind of coming in fresh and new, and it was just you were one of those people, you and Spins especially. Big shout out, Spins.
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>> You were one of those people that just made me feel like at home.
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So, not only are you amazing at what you do, which we'll get into, you're you're a great guy off off as well.
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So, I appreciate you, man. Thank you.
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I want to dive in by asking you like what I heard from you and I've been watching your interviews and obviously I I came to the event which we talked about in a second, but I feel like you always felt like you didn't quite fit in.
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Talk to me about your earliest memory that reminds you of that feeling.
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>> I think being born in London, um my mom was kind of the the mom and dad.
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Dad was kind of in my life till I was about 8 years old.
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So I think naturally you kind of rebel.
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So I think when I was playing football, running track and field, I always felt like I was just different, kind of my approach, my mindset.
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Um and then we moved to America.
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I was about 9 or 10, kind of in between those years.
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And those years are very important, right?
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All your friends are there, your family's there.
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So naturally moving from London to New York, I was like, I don't want to be here.
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So getting into trouble, getting kicked out of my first school, public school, then I got kicked out of my second school, and then my mother met someone that would was on the missions program for private school.
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Was a Was a good tuition grants cuz we didn't have money at the time.
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But as a punishment, I had to pick up tennis, fencing, or badminton. >> As a punishment?
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>> Cuz I guess they were mental sports.
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I was like, "Ugh, whatever. Sports are fun."
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And then I was like, "Wait, I can pick up a sword and like stab you, right?"
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I was like, "This is like the kid's dream."
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And then immediately, that was my purpose.
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Cuz you put the mask on and you feel like a superhero.
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And I think that was the first time I realized like, "Okay, this is going to be my way out of whatever I'm kind of in."
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And then I was very ADD, ADHD, and then fencing became my outlet.
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And as I started to get better in fencing, I started to get better in school.
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So that kind of ended up being a double-sided sword, which ended up being my job.
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I kind of got very, very lucky in finding fencing because I don't know where I'd be now if I wasn't, you know, a professional fencer, which is a crazy thing to say, you know?
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>> I feel like sports, when you're young, are so important.
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What was the difference because everyone plays sports.
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I played a lot of sports growing older.
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You're obviously phenomenal at what you do.
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How quickly did you realize that this could be something you were actually really good at?
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>> I think it was immediately.
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Yeah, picked it up right away and Ellen Grayson, who I love her to death, hello.
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She was like, "Miles, you you could be an Olympian."
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I was like, "This is in fencing? Really?"
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And I think immediately I felt this connection that was like nothing else in my life.
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And it was like my therapy.
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And I think nowadays it's like kids ADD ADHD first things I hear are we should give them a pill or give them a drug.
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And I'm like, find them something that that that they love.
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I think that's the key is and sports are amazing because no matter if you're rich or poor, at the end of the day it's it's who's going to win, right?
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Same sword in my hands, same mask on my head.
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And I think that's why sports are so incredible because they saved my life.
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I never knew at that time that it would be my you know, be-all end-all, but fencing literally saved my life. >> Wow.
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>> Which is crazy to say.
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>> Yeah, but I believe you. I can feel it.
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Like you were just sitting with you and you're saying that and I'm like, "Wow, that's like I because I feel like so many parents today are wondering how do I get my kid to be confident?
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How do I get my kid to like just get out there.
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And and I couldn't agree with you more that you only feel confident when you have some competence.
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Like when you feel like you have a skill, when you have an ability and you have something to do beyond scrolling on your phone or, you know, watching a show or playing video games or whatever it may be.
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For you, talk to me about what do you think life would have looked like if you didn't find fencing that early?
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>> I honestly don't know cuz we're hanging around the corner shops, you know, getting into troubles, stealing sweets, just kind of cuz we didn't really know what there was for us.
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And I think that's also very important having a father figure in your life.
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And think of my mom my mom found my stepdad Colin, who I say my dad to you cuz he is my dad raised me.
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I think that's also very very important is cuz you need someone who's going to tell you no when they can.
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And I honestly don't think I would be definitely not talking to you.
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And I definitely don't know if I'd be behind the bars, to be honest with you, cuz I was just such a crazy little kid.
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My friends I grew up with are, you know, they're plumbers, they're happy.
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Um but I was kind of the only one out of us to kind of make it out and and create an empire for myself.
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>> What area did you grow up in?
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>> First it was Southwest London, and then it was Ealing, and then it was Putney, and then Kilburn a little bit. >> Yeah, yeah.
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>> And then we moved to New York.
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Yeah, and a really, really funny story, 2012 Olympics, my three friends, Aaron, Adam, and Blake, they're all brothers, they're all plumbers, and they actually built the Olympic village. >> No.
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>> So, yeah, first time I was saying that, yeah, they literally built the village. >> That's so cool.
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>> would call me like, "Hey, man, I'm building your village."
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I was like, "What do you mean?"
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And like, plumbing it and making it, and then they kind of got to see me compete >> Wow. >> and they all came.
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So, that was a full circle moment for me. >> That's amazing. That's so good, man. >> Yeah, it was crazy.
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>> And that just happened by chance.
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There was no connectivity or anything. >> By chance.
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And I think life is obviously about timing's everything in life, and I really believe that, and I think some things might be not the right time, relationships, partners, sports, but sports, I think are the number one thing.
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If I have children, I would put them in the right way.
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I'm not going to tell you to be a fencer, but I think just sports teach you how to lose, what it feels like, integrity, listening, and I think that's what fencing taught me.
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>> I told you this before, I don't think we had a proper conversation about it.
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So, I did fencing at school. >> Yeah.
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>> And I won some super amateur championships at like 14, 15, 16.
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I don't I don't I You know, maybe I I'm joking.
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I could never have been good enough to to compete with what you do, but I loved it as a sport, actually.
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>> It was pretty It was really strategic, it was tactical.
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The fitness level was, you know, it was challenging.
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I still remember, actually, really well.
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We'd do it in the gym at school.
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Talk to me about the importance of a mentor, though, cuz it sounds like you gave a shout out to someone there, and I was like, I think that's the difference.
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Like, when I played a lot of sports at school, you've got to have someone who kind of takes you under their wing and like invests in you and makes you feel like you could go find I found them in life, I found them in business, I found them in spirituality and meditation and other areas of my life.
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But sports is somewhere where I think a coach or a mentor is just the most important person.
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Talk to me about how you found yours.
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>> 100% I think Ellen Grayson and um Eric Rosenberg, they work in the school at the time and they saw my potential and they actually were the first person to say get your citizenship.
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But I didn't realize I was going to be who I am to this day.
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Without them, I would never probably seen my potential and seen how far I could take fencing.
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And then my coach, Simon Gershon, um became like my dad.
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I can tell him everything.
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He's kind of teaching me like, you know, that you must learn how to lose before you can learn how to win, which is a tattoo I have, which I think is so important because understanding the feeling of losing as an athlete is the hardest thing, you know, to kind of understand and swallow.
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But then you have to understand what that feels like, so when you do win, you appreciate that more than ever. I talk to him every day.
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If I'm not feeling good, he can sense it.
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So to me, having a coach and a mentor and a role model is so important.
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I think now that's why I love being that for the kids now, which is one reason why I started this league, but I love seeing kids look up to me, parents ask me questions and I think if I can be a little bit of a catalyst or kind of a helper for them, then that's probably bigger than winning any medal I could ever win.
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>> That's such great advice. Where's your tattoo?
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Is it Can you >> Yeah, yeah, it's somewhere on here. >> You like, yeah.
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>> It's somewhere on >> How many tattoos do you have? >> 150. >> Really? >> Yeah.
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>> Yeah, cuz I tattooed my hands because in fencing we wear all white. >> Yeah.
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>> was like, you know, I want to stand out and my mom hated it cuz she's you know, a British lady.
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>> Now I remember when we were traveling as well, you got these crazy ones on your shin as well, on your legs, yeah. When did you start?
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>> 2012 I got my first one in London. >> late.
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>> At the Olympics, yeah.
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And it says from London to London.
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And then I won more championships and I got the the dates and then I was like I really like it.
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And then I just kind of went crazy with it.
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But they're all very, very purposeful.
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Like they're not just random ones I've gotten for just for the sake of it.
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>> What's the losing win one again? Say that again.
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>> You you learn how to lose before you can learn how to win. >> I really like that.
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That's the >> And I and I really understood that when I lost at the Olympics. Um we got fourth.
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And I was like, "I wait 4 years."
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And then I kind of changed my whole mentality.
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And then 2013 was when I made history.
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And I was the first ever black American world champion in the history of fencing.
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And I think if I didn't lose, I don't know if I'd ever win.
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Which is a weird thing to kind of say, but I think it's it's pretty poignant and I think it is very important for just your character.
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And just trying to be as humble and even-keeled as you can.
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Cuz I never understand some athletes who reach a certain peak and they just change who they are.
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And I think if you can keep, you know, that little kid in you, then I think you'll you'll be able to go through life with a lot more wins than than losses.
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>> It's such powerful advice.
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I remember I had, obviously I never competed at any any level, but I remember having a football coach who'd always say to us, he was like, "If you win, celebrate for a night and then get back to training.
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And if you lose, cry for a night and then get back to training." >> Yeah.
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>> And he was like, "All you have to do is get back to training." >> Yeah.
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>> He said everything else is irrelevant.
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You can celebrate for one night, you can cry for one night, but get on with it.
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Because his whole point was like, "When we lose, we cry for a month.
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And when you win, you celebrate for a night."
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And that's why you remember the bad times more than the good times.
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Because when you lose, you get so deep into it.
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Talk to me about that loss that you had.
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The details of like what it felt like to lose in that way.
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>> What it felt like your life is over at that time.
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My nan was there, you know, she's African.
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Like my aunts, my uncles that were supporting me and I'm like, "I feel like I let everybody down." And they don't care.
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They'll be there for who I am.
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But at that time, that's my biggest moment in sports is making the Olympics in 2012 in London.
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And I just felt like, "Oh, >> Yeah, hometown as well.
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>> Hometown, ashamed of myself.
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And a really, really beautiful moment for me was I'm in the village and the basketball team walks in. And Kobe walks in.
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And he's like, "Hi, how are you?"
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And I'm like, "Hi, how are you doing?" He's like, "I'm Kobe."
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I'm like, "I know who you are.
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I'm a I'm a Miles, I'm a fencer.
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And he told me this quote, I'll never forget it.
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I got a tattoo on my leg.
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He says, "The best athletes have the shortest memory.
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You win, you forget about it.
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You lose, you forget about it.
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When you're done your career, you can celebrate all you want."
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And I sit there and I'm like, "Wow."
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And immediately, that grin turned into a smile.
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And then I changed my whole mentality, and then I won the next year.
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I was able to tell him, which was really, really beautiful.
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But I think when you meet someone like that who you look up to, and they're just even more incredible in person, and he's just very humble and told me that from from his coach, and I'll never, ever forget that.
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And I have it tattooed on the back of my leg with his face.
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So, I think those moments are priceless to me.
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And I think if I would have won, would I have had that time with him?
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Or would have I have been able to do more in my sport?
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So, I think everything has a reason to come into your life, whether it's positive or negative.
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And I'm grateful for these moments in life that, you know, are incredible.
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>> That's such a great story, right? >> I'll never forget it.
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>> Kobe came on the podcast the first year of the podcast. It was brand new. We just started out.
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And he did exactly what you said.
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He walked into the room and he introduced himself as Kobe to my whole team.
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And everyone's like, "Yeah, we know exactly who you are."
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And my favorite memory from that day was that when we walked in, he was in his office, and you could just see the silhouette of his head, and his team was saying that he was meditating in there before he came to do the interview.
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And he said they said he did that every morning.
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When we finished the interview, this was a little clip. I still have this clip.
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I've never put it out there cuz I feel it'd be disrespectful, but at the end of it, he goes, "I can see why you're number one."
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And I was just like, that will like stay with me forever. >> Wow.
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>> me the biggest hug, and yeah, I was so grateful to And that was like 3 months before his tragic passing.
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So, it was like right then.
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But yeah, what what an incredible role model, amazing energy, like so present, really humble.
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Everything you just said, like just meeting someone at that level, that caliber, who was just so down-to-earth.
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>> I don't want to talk too much about it cuz obviously respect to him, but I was on set with Nike talking about him the day it happened. >> Oh. >> The day it happened. >> Wow.
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>> And then Louis actually text me "I love you, brother." I said "Love you, too."
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But my phone was in the green room.
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And I was talking about him, his impact on me.
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And everybody just stood in silence.
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And it was just like It was, you know, and I think larger than life is people and life's a brutal reminder.
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And I think it's just enjoy every moment you can, negatives or positives.
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And I think that's all we can do in life and just live with love and everything else will take care of itself, but that man was so special. >> Yeah, one-of-a-kind.
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He was He was one of the few athletes I knew that was peaceful in retirement. >> Yeah. Yeah.
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>> And he was really happy because he was getting He won the Oscar for the short film that was teaching lessons from basketball. Yeah, exactly.
14:23
But uh I was thinking about it, you mentioned something that you said that you're the first black person in the sport to win.
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I mean, that just First of all, that is a huge accomplishment. Congratulations.
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I just want to acknowledge and honor just what a big deal that is.
14:36
But fencing is known for being a notoriously white sport. >> Yeah.
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>> Like that's what it's always been, I assume.
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You can fill me in on the history a little bit.
14:43
Talk to me about even breaking into something like that because I don't That's not normal. That doesn't sound easy.
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I'm sure there's a lot of things to navigate.
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Like walk me through that experience.
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>> I was in a group class and you know, they pick you one on a team.
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We did like a first team event.
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It was like, so three people on one team versus the three.
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And every time I was picked last knowing I was not the worst one.
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And at the time you're kind of like All right, this is This is weird.
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I'm the only one that kind of looks like me in it.
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And then I started to realize that no one in the sport really made a mark on them that was my color.
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Besides Peter Westbrook who I have to give some homage to.
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And then my first ever Junior Olympics, I never forget it.
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I got five red cards for no reason.
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And I knew it was because of the color of my skin.
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Because the next day I won the under 17. I knew it.
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And now I've seen the referee still to this day and I still have this this I was like a little kid and it's just you don't know why things are happening to you, but then as I got older I started to realize it was just because of the color of my skin.
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Because no one in that sport had broken that mold and there's been countless times of referees and and coaches that are just racial gestures that I've never really talked about cuz my mom always just said just just win.
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And then what can they say?
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I've had many many occasions from probably 14 till 17 18 then I was like I'm the best now.
16:04
And it's unfortunate because now there's still racism in the sport, right?
16:07
It happened with this kid in Amsterdam and I messaged him right away like you know, I have your back and I'll talk about it and and I'll post about it because it's you need someone's going to have your back cuz it's a very lonely feeling when you're the only one that has felt this way.
16:20
Once I started to realize that I I made it like a positive chip on my shoulder. And I was like, okay.
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And I never look at life as anything negative whether it's you know, being racially profiled or losing.
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I always have a positive outlook on everything because it's never lost.
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It's always a lesson and I think that was something that I was like, okay, this is going to be change in the sport and I will leave fencing in good hands because I know I've changed the sport for the best.
16:45
>> How did you handle it at the time when you didn't have someone reaching out to you?
16:48
>> The good thing about fencing is I can take my aggression out on my opponent.
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[laughter] So it's a positive thing for the sport. >> To channel it.
16:54
>> Yeah, you know, you're crying in the locker room.
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I never cried in front of my mom.
16:59
You know, look at me with a mask on.
16:59
You you know, shake your opponent and put the mask back on.
17:01
But I think at that age it's it's it's okay to cry and it's okay to let things out because there are coaches and parents who I've seen who have actually shunned their kids for showing emotions.
17:12
I've seen parents leave their kids at competitions because their kid lost to me.
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And actually the kid is actually my friend now.
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And it's just a shame that that parents don't realize like how much pressure there is on on on us to just win.
17:26
So, I think now seeing kids that look more like us, brown, white, whatever, girls, I just want to make them feel comfortable and happy and safe.
17:32
And I think if I can be this beacon for them, then that's what I want to do in the sport.
17:39
>> Well, that was so incredible when you launched the World Fencing League.
17:41
I just got to attend in LA.
17:42
I felt like you had people from different countries, different cultures, different backgrounds.
17:47
I mean, that was pretty epic, man. That was amazing.
17:50
>> It was honestly a dream come true. We sold out. We broke records.
17:52
I think over a million people live watching, which is more than the Olympics.
17:57
And I think just seeing kids so happy that the sport is on the map was the best feeling I've ever felt in my life.
18:04
So, seeing all the little kids on the red carpet, to all the fencers inside telling me, "Man, I think you've done it."
18:10
Well, that was to me the greatest day of my life because it was just we really changed the sport on one day because now there's an audience of people that never seen it, like yourself, like people in tech, people in sports, people that I've looked up to, to the fencing fans to get the love that they deserved was incredible.
18:27
I even I'm smiling cuz I'm generally so happy that >> Yeah, yeah.
18:32
>> it happened and now the response has been so positive, so we can keep growing and growing.
18:36
I just want to get fencing on a mainstream, you know, channel and and platform, which is going to happen.
18:42
But, it takes someone like myself to know that it's going to be tough, but I can handle it.
18:47
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19:17
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19:22
For anyone who doesn't really know that much about fencing, was new to it, walk us through like what the regime is, what the fitness training is, what the skill is, what the art is, like how you train.
19:36
It's almost like when people watch Drive to Survive, that was when people realized what F1 drivers did. >> Yeah.
19:42
>> I'm sure you're working on a version of that for fencing. I see it. >> Yes.
19:46
>> And and I feel like getting inside your mind is interesting to me because I'm like I love knowing how people are performing at the highest levels figure that out because that's what I'm obsessed with is knowing how you perform at that level and that peak.
19:58
So, what's the training, what's the focus, what's the patterns, what are the things that you have to do that might surprise us?
20:07
>> I would say fencing's like physical chess, right?
20:08
Where it's mentally just as taxing as physically.
20:11
Cuz I have to think what you're going to do ahead and then react to what you're going to do as well.
20:15
So, I'd say the three main things would be being explosive, your reaction, and your timing.
20:21
So, if I have to react to you and then my timing of hitting you before you can hit me, I would say is very very important.
20:28
But then it becomes a beautiful dance as well, where I'm more of a feeling type of fencer, where I like to see what you're going to do.
20:33
I have to look at your feet, I have to look at your mannerisms.
20:37
But then there's guys that are very good too, that are very mental, and they'll just kind of more defensive and kind of pick you apart.
20:42
I would say fencing's like if boxing, taekwondo, and 100 meters had a baby. >> Wow.
20:53
>> Cuz you have to be very explosive right off the gate.
20:55
You have to be very very reactive, but then you have to have a feeling of kind of if things go bad, how do I change right away?
21:03
So, it's kind of like there's no real sport like fencing because it's so unique.
21:06
And then once you see it person, you're like, "Oh my god, they're real athletes."
21:10
I'm like, "It's not like the parent trap, you know?"
21:12
>> [laughter] >> Great movie, but I'm like >> trap.
21:14
>> You know, people are like, "Oh yeah, it's like I'm like, no, no, no.
21:15
People died 50, 60 years ago."
21:19
Because it's an actual sword, right?
21:19
I did the foil discipline, but so I'd say it's it's like physical chess, what I tell people, where it's just as taxing mentally as it is physically.
21:27
It's such a unique sport because it is grip strength as well as core and your legs cuz you're in a squat the entire time.
21:36
And I think, you know, as you saw, it's so explosive and it it can be over in 5 minutes or 40 minutes.
21:42
So, you have to have a great VO2 as well.
21:43
You can get your heart rate from, you know, 160, 170 back to the low 70s, 80s.
21:48
So, yeah, it's a it's a crazy sport.
21:51
>> When you're training for a big tournament, what does your regime look like for how long?
21:54
>> So, I would say uh preseason, we're doing a lot of cardio and it's like similar to boxing, right?
22:01
So, we'll do 10 rounds on the assault bike.
22:03
It's, you know, 20 seconds on, 40 seconds off 10 times, and we'll do the ski erg, I'll do sprinting.
22:09
We don't necessarily need too much distance work, but it's more like high intensity, get the heart rate down, get that right right back up again.
22:15
And then I like to train four to five times a week.
22:19
So, Monday, Wednesday, Friday, Saturday is big fencing, which is sparring, kind of get the the fencing stamina.
22:26
And then Tuesday, Thursday, if you want to do Friday as well, it's more of a lesson, which is one-on-one with your coach, which is how do I want to get better in this tactical movement?
22:36
Uh and I say that's kind of the building block for most fences. >> Got it.
22:41
>> Yeah, whether you're 12 or whether you're my age, it it's it's pretty intense at a young age.
22:45
>> And then how much are you fencing like how much are you training different moves and >> Yeah.
22:51
>> Is that if that's even the right word? >> no, it's good.
22:53
One very cribs, I like make up my own moves by myself.
22:55
I like I like to spend an hour on my own in the gym when no one's there.
22:59
>> Well, that's what I find so hard about fencing is that when I saw it at the World Fencing League, to me I was like, how do they predict anything cuz you could do anything?
23:07
Like the obviously the target mark is only the upper part of the body, right?
23:12
You can't get someone's face, you can't get someone's legs, you can't get someone's feet.
23:16
But even with that, I was like the way the fencers were moving their foil, I was like, how would you know what they're about to do because it's so unpredictable?
23:25
It's not like it's not obvious.
23:27
It's not like, oh, there's this move and this move and this move.
23:30
>> Some opponents have like specific mannerisms where like say Italians are really good at putting pressure on you, you know, Russians are more tactical, French kind of have both. >> Oh, it's by country?
23:42
>> Kind of, yeah, I would say, yeah.
23:44
>> There's a style in each country.
23:45
>> And then the Asians have incredible footwork. Like it's it's insane.
23:47
So, you can kind of know that within fencing a Korean you have to move your legs like crazy.
23:54
Italians you have to think a lot and react.
23:56
French they kind of have everything in one.
24:00
And then Americans are kind of unpredictable as well.
24:01
We have our own styles, but I would say for the most part actually yeah, it is actually by by country.
24:06
Now I'm like, yeah, it Yeah, it is.
24:08
>> When when you said people died in the sport, how long ago?
24:11
>> I would say 60 65 70 years ago.
24:15
>> Because they didn't have the >> Yeah, so back in the day it was dry.
24:16
So, Smirnoff and Bear were fencing and unfortunately the foil broke off and went through his eye.
24:25
And it killed him immediately.
24:25
So, nowadays if it breaks, there's a light that comes on right away.
24:28
But back in the day it was dry.
24:31
So, you just have to hope it doesn't break. >> Wow.
24:33
>> So, it was real real like some warrior stuff back in the day.
24:37
And then now it's obviously progressed and now we've added new tech which we did in the in the whole league, but it is a it is we're literally sword fighting.
24:43
But I think people don't understand how hard it is until you see it.
24:47
Like it's really really tough. >> Yeah.
24:49
>> And I've played, you know, football, I ran track, I played tennis, but I think you do realize it is an intense sport.
24:53
So, if I can give that you know, kind of knowledge to the people that don't know to understand it more, I think that's a massive key. >> Yeah.
25:03
I also feel that you bring your swag to fencing.
25:05
You just mentioned >> Yeah.
25:07
>> Gala like I'm like you can go from like fencing outfit to Met Gala to streetwear.
25:12
I'm like I'm sure you don't see that a lot in fencing either. >> Yeah.
25:15
I I think you got your own Nike Yes.
25:18
>> swag that people >> second one, you know? >> Yeah.
25:20
>> Honestly, those are dreams.
25:20
I think like I always knew that I wanted to do something different.
25:27
And I've never been in a box, but like to be yourself and I think the best thing anybody ever says is Miles, you never changed.
25:32
That's the best compliment.
25:32
I couldn't even tell some of my teammates what I'm doing because it just sounds so ridiculous.
25:37
I don't ever come off as like as cocky or you know, I'm I'm pretty humble if you meet me.
25:42
So, I think from like going from a competition in Istanbul to Miami F1 to the Met to go and right into training.
25:49
Like people think I don't I don't miss training.
25:53
People are like, oh my I go from the airplane to training.
25:56
So, I think like it is a lot of pressure, but it also is a blessing.
25:58
But whenever I'm tired, I'm like mate, look at your life.
26:03
Like you're doing some pretty cool things. They're all a blessing. But it is it is a lot.
26:08
But I try my best to to take some time to you know, meditate. I'm trying to do that.
26:14
I'm learning cuz I'm ADD.
26:16
>> Next time instead of poker, we'll do that with everyone. >> Yeah, we should. No, I really >> Faster. >> Yeah, you know.
26:21
>> [laughter] >> Or before even. >> Or before, yeah.
26:23
>> Cuz I think people don't want to spend time with themselves.
26:26
And for me, I love hanging out with myself.
26:27
It sounds crazy, but I love just being at home.
26:29
I'm reading I'm finishing The Untethered Soul right now.
26:32
I'm reading which is a crazy to me. I'm like great book. >> Obviously, I love TV.
26:37
I love shows and sports, but I'm trying my best now to like take a deep breath and try to shut my phone off at like 10:30 at home and just, you know, take some time with myself and be like, how you doing? Are you good?
26:49
And then I'm like, yeah, I'm good.
26:50
I'm generally a happy person, like actually happy.
26:52
So like I'm good on that.
26:54
But it was also just like, all right, like take a deep breath and just relax for once.
26:58
And I think that's my hardest part is the balance.
27:00
And I think that's the ongoing battle.
27:04
>> Yeah, I feel like we all think our worth comes from being busy and productive and always being on.
27:08
And it's a good distraction away from your actual thoughts. Exactly.
27:12
And what's actually going on inside.
27:14
And then when you slow down, the thought arises and you go, oh gosh, I don't know if I can sit with this.
27:19
And that's why I always said to people, that's probably the hardest sport in the world is sitting with your thoughts.
27:23
Like fighting with your thoughts is the hardest sport in the world. >> Honestly, 100%.
27:26
Cuz especially like as athletes, right?
27:28
It's like you're in the hotel room before and you can't help yourself but to think about tomorrow.
27:32
So like I read this book about samurai's and it said you can't don't worry about what you don't know.
27:39
And that's why now I never talk about fencing, I never watch fencing until the morning of.
27:43
I don't even know who I fence until the morning.
27:46
>> So you don't analyze the opponent until >> Sometimes I don't know who I'm going to fence until I'm on the strip, which is kind of crazy. Why?
27:50
Because one time I knew and I couldn't sleep.
27:52
And then I'm I'm envisioning in my head and I wake up and I'm tired.
27:56
At the end of the day, if I don't know what I'm going to do fencing, how the hell could you plan for me? Right? So I realized that.
28:01
So now I don't ever ever talk talk about fencing, think about fencing. I don't want to know.
28:07
I don't even go to the venue night before.
28:11
I just whatever city I'm in, I kind of walk around.
28:13
>> unique for an athlete. >> Oh, it's crazy.
28:14
People are like, why are you doing that? I'm like, that helps me. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah.
28:19
>> And then that's how I deal with with pressure.
28:20
Cuz at the end of the day, pressure is a privilege.
28:23
But it also comes with a lot of pressure.
28:25
But also understanding now that like if you can have this understanding that like you're supposed to win a competition, that's a gift.
28:31
So if you can lean into that, like most people don't aren't supposed to win.
28:36
So they've got no real pressure. >> Yeah.
28:39
>> So I think now understanding that's actually a gift has helped me be like, all right, like just you know, lean into this.
28:45
So I think just learning more about myself has given me more understanding of the sport of fencing. >> Yeah.
28:52
Talk to me about the road to your favorite tournaments, whether it's the Olympics, winning bronze, world champion.
28:58
Like, talk to me Let's talk about the Olympics first because I mean, and you brought us the Olympic medal, which was incredible, which we're going to That's I mean, I've never seen one in real life.
29:06
Like you said, everyone's wearing the fake ones when they're out or whatever in the pictures. >> Yeah.
29:11
>> Talk to me about what it felt like getting to the Olympics, winning bronze.
29:15
>> I would say getting that you know, 0.
29:17
001% of the population gets to go to the Olympics. I think it's like 0. 001 get a medal, right?
29:21
So, unless you're Phelps, who's got 2,000 of them.
29:26
>> [laughter] >> But, I think when you get there, at least my first one, it changed everything. I was serious.
29:34
I didn't see my friends, which ended up being the wrong decision.
29:36
And then And then the next year, I was like, you know what? I'm going to enjoy this.
29:41
I'm going to get dinner with my friend the night before, and I won.
29:45
That was me realizing that not everybody is the same athlete.
29:47
And yes, there's rules and techniques and routines, but like, I'm not like the next person, so why should I prepare like them?
29:53
So, then once I started to understand that I'm different, then then that kind of led me up to Rio.
29:59
And I actually lived in Korea for a little bit.
30:02
And I trained with Youngho Kim.
30:04
And I won the first Grand Prix of the season.
30:06
People are like, "Why is he going to Korea?" I'm like, "Why not?"
30:10
And I won the first Grand Prix of the season.
30:11
And I was like, "That's why."
30:14
Cuz I wanted to to learn something new.
30:15
I think As athletes, change is okay, but sometimes it's hard to to take that leap, right?
30:21
And then I made the Olympics, and then I had the best team fencing of my life.
30:26
And I was able to to enjoy the moment, the process, be in Rio, you know, meet the other athletes.
30:31
And I think that was when I realized you need to enjoy the journey because when you're done, besides the medal, memories to me are more important.
30:37
And if you lose those memories, then you've lost, I think, the coolest part of the journey.
30:41
So, I think leaning into like the understanding and having fun was ultimately why I was able to, you know, go to three Olympics and have success.
30:51
And, you know, now I'm like there's kids like, "I'm so stressed."
30:52
I'm like, "What are you stressed about? Cuz you want to win? That means you care." Next thing.
30:57
So, I've been able to go through each of these ebbs and flows and have answers to most of them, which I think is the key to to to success, right?
31:05
Everybody can be really, really good.
31:07
If you can unlock the mind, that's when you become a legend.
31:11
And that's what I'm learning from people who are legends of of, you know, taking those risks and being crazy.
31:16
Cuz, you know, it takes one person to change the world, right?
31:18
Just one person to change the sport.
31:20
And I think if I can be that person, then I've created a whole new road map for the next kids to Oh, wow, this is a different approach for me, which has been a blessing. >> I love that.
31:29
I love the idea of you going to Korea, learning a new school of thought.
31:31
I love the idea of being this multifaceted individual because you're so right that whether it's sports or whether it's business, whatever it is, everyone thinks that there's only one way to do it right.
31:43
And then you speak to all these founders and you're like, no, they all did something different.
31:47
They discovered their idea differently, they built teams differently, and they took their human experience and put it into what they were doing, and that's what made it as good as it was.
31:56
I've really been on this hype of wanting anyone, whatever industry you're in, whether it's sports, media, business, whatever it is, finance, tech, to find what it is that makes you different and lean into that, and not lean into thinking, how do I look like that other guy who's doing it as well?
32:13
Because I think that time is gone.
32:13
I think that time existed.
32:15
Back in the day you had to wear the suit like that guy wore, and you had to wear the shoes that he wore, and you had to play golf like him, or whatever it was.
32:22
And I was like, that's changed now.
32:23
It just doesn't work that way. >> Exactly.
32:26
You said it perfectly because there's always a stigma like, I have to do it I can't have a tattoo cuz I'm not going to get a job.
32:31
I told my mom, I'll be the first ever, not that money matters, but I was like, I'll going to ever millionaire fencer.
32:37
It's like saying I'm going to see a unicorn cuz it's never existed.
32:38
But I knew if I was just myself it would figure itself out, right?
32:42
Then I have tattoos and then now cuz you're getting tattoos because it's such a still a little sub of sport and you can't do these things. I'm like, no, why not?
32:51
You know, oh, I won't be in a meeting with CEOs.
32:53
I'm actually sitting with the guy that made your phone and I'm myself. Right?
32:56
So like you said, I think it's that time is gone.
33:00
But I think people are still so scared to take a risk.
33:04
And I think that's the difference.
33:05
There's so many people that are the same nowadays, which is I think the issue.
33:07
And I think if you can just honestly be yourself, you'll figure out what what life is for you.
33:15
And I think I never wanted to be like anybody else in sports or life in general.
33:19
And there were those times when I was like, was this the right decision?
33:21
But I knew keep your head down, keep being you and things will happen for you. And they did.
33:26
I used to think that fencing was like my kind of anchor.
33:31
I was a fencer, but that's actually my gift.
33:33
I used to tell a lot of people like, oh yeah, I play basketball, you know, just cuz like >> I'd believe it, yeah.
33:38
>> cuz there were people trying to make fun of me or trying to fight me or bully me in school, yeah, cuz I was a fencer. >> Wow.
33:43
>> Cuz to them it was not a cool sport.
33:43
And then now my Instagram is fencer and I'm like, that's what I'm doing. That's my purpose. Right?
33:49
And Michael Strahan was one of my great friends and mentor always told me, never mess up your main and keep that your main.
33:56
I was like, fencing's my main.
33:57
Everything else will come, but just don't lose sight of what you were here on this planet to do.
34:02
>> Did it affect you between when your father left when you were eight and then before you had your now dad that you mentioned like, did that affect you in any way like?
34:10
>> I think it did for sure.
34:10
And I think there are times of like now that I'm older and I can understand it like, why are you getting into trouble?
34:18
Why are you doing these things, right?
34:18
I think probably does stem from trauma or stem from something because why else would I be acting up?
34:24
Like my mom's an amazing mom.
34:25
She's given me all the right lessons.
34:29
Like why is this happening?
34:29
And obviously one of my best friends Lewis was like, you need to attack that into understand that, right?
34:34
Like why is this happening?
34:36
And I you know went on a spiritual I went on a spiritual journey and understood oh wow.
34:41
And I didn't talk to him for 10 for over 10 years. >> Oh wow. Your biological father? >> Yeah.
34:47
And then you know I had this awakening picked up the phone and called him.
34:53
I said, "Hey Dad, this is Miles. How are you?
34:56
I don't want to know about the past. How's everything going?
34:59
Because I also realized that kids don't realize that their parents are growing up as well.
35:04
And that was like, oh wow.
35:06
Not saying right or wrong, but once I did that it was like a >> [gasps and sighs] >> And then I think I started to just understand way more about myself.
35:13
So I think definitely I had trauma without even knowing it was trauma at the time.
35:19
And then now it's like I've got such a clear understanding of that probably made me who I am.
35:25
So I almost wouldn't want it any other way.
35:27
And then my stepdad who is my dad is the is the most amazing person he taught me how to be a man.
35:33
And I think that's the coolest part is having this kind of roller coaster journey created you know this person in front of you, but I think not having that growing up somehow helped me not take no for an answer and and and really knock some doors down.
35:47
So I think it definitely was a time when I had to be like, "Okay, why are you getting in trouble?
35:53
Why are you getting arrested?
35:55
What you know, why are you doing these things?" >> Did you get arrested?
35:58
>> Yeah, one time I was this stupid competition and I was like throwing these like shampoo bottles down just >> [laughter] >> and then it was a stupid I got handcuffed and then my mom walked in.
36:08
Oh, this is the worst story.
36:08
And then my mom walked in as it happened and I was like oh my god.
36:13
[laughter] >> You're more scared of your mom than the cops. >> 100%. Oh my god. >> age for sure.
36:20
>> And then it was just like these moments of like, "Why are you getting in trouble?
36:22
Why are you getting in fights?"
36:23
Just you know, but I think it all stemmed from trauma that I was like small things like I never had that uh what's it the birds and the bees talk whatever that is your parent or the small little things that I think are important especially at that age.
36:36
So I think that was definitely a reason for all of my negative intakes was definitely probably because it was just my mom and she was trying her best.
36:47
Though she was crushing it but she never complained and never saw her cry I never saw her anything and now she's now hopefully living the life but she is the strongest man and woman I know by far.
36:59
>> What did your biological dad say when you called him after those 10 years?
37:02
>> I remember yesterday it was like a uh hello? I was like yes Miles.
37:06
He was like hi son and then I was like listen I don't care about the past. Do you need anything? How are you?
37:14
Talk for about I want to say it was like 45 seconds I think I remember seeing on the phone and then it was just like a whoa.
37:20
But it was like a really nice closing chapter and an opening chapter. >> Hm.
37:27
>> I remember I posted about it cuz I was very scared and especially like black men it's very common.
37:30
You have a dad at all you know and I talked about it.
37:32
I got so many lovely messages like I'm going to call my dad.
37:36
I was like oh wow I didn't realize it was such a a big thing to talk about.
37:40
I've gone through a lot in my life but they're all blessings in a way but I think it's so important to address issues no matter how hard they are for you at the time.
37:52
Um yeah and now you know he's never seen me fence before which is crazy.
37:57
And now I'm like maybe that's maybe that's the time.
37:59
You know who knows I'm open to it for the first time cuz back in the day I was like I'll never talk to you again.
38:06
But now it's like >> What opened you up to it?
38:08
>> I think just the understanding that everybody has their own issues whether they're good or bad I have to understand that as well.
38:16
You know there's some things that he's going on in his life that he hasn't told me or certain things right and I think just understanding that the parents are still growing up in front of your eyes, they don't have the all the answers, was like a oh, okay, Miles.
38:28
Now I know the dad I will be when I have kids. >> Yeah. >> You know?
38:31
So, I think that was really, really eye-opening for me to understand that you're going to cry, cry, mate, you know, that's all right.
38:37
I remember I didn't cry for like 16 years.
38:41
Till I was like, I'm you know, just stone cold, this and that, and I was like, it's all right.
38:45
And there's nothing wrong with that.
38:46
I think it's such a stigma.
38:49
And then now I was like, no, like, you have emotions, like that those are all okay.
38:53
So, I think that was just a massive learning process for me.
38:56
Which helped me in in in my sports.
38:56
Cuz now I was like, I can do anything. >> That was harder. >> That was way harder. >> Yeah, yeah.
39:04
>> Calling him was way harder than any training session I've ever done in my life.
39:08
I could have done Mount Everest over over a phone call. I'm not kidding.
39:13
>> I think people underestimate how much a lot of our physical and mental blocks are actually emotional.
39:19
If we were able to get past and do the emotional thing, then we'd be able to do physical and mental things that we don't even think is possible.
39:28
But we're all blocking ourselves and limiting ourselves because there's some sort of emotional unlock that we haven't allowed, whether it's forgiveness, resilience, courage, fear, whatever it may be.
39:38
And that's really powerful to hear, man.
39:40
Thank you for sharing that.
39:41
>> It feels as good to talk about, you know, cuz it's like I almost forgot we're on a podcast.
39:44
It felt like we were just, you know, we were just having a chat. >> just chatting, yeah.
39:48
>> And I think that's the cool thing, it's like emotions are your best friend, right?
39:50
If you're feeling a certain way, you can either lead into it, just don't let that dictate your entire day.
39:55
So, I think that's something that I learned as well.
39:58
If I'm feeling this way, let it out, and then move on.
40:00
And then it it all ties into just understanding who you are at the core.
40:03
Cuz I finally know now who Miles is.
40:08
Cuz I have to take those, you know, heart to the mirror, figure out take take the losses with all the wins, and now understand that, okay, now I've got a clear path of what I want to do.
40:18
>> How did you develop all these mindsets and principles?
40:19
Where did you learn them from?
40:21
Because you're like I'm like talking to a philosopher over here.
40:23
[laughter] Like No, but I mean it and I'm saying it in a positive sense that you've got it almost feels like you've got these codes that you follow and you're you programmed your mind to think in this certain way.
40:34
Where did you pick them up from along the way?
40:36
>> My mom said the same thing recently and I and I don't really know where they've come from, but I just feel like if you're going to have to do something, right?
40:45
Why not try and do it with a smile on your face, right?
40:47
If I got to go to training if I'm hungry or not, I have to do it anyway and I think one of the biggest moments which I'll talk about right now which I don't like to talk about no one really knows, but the first Olympic qualifier, I was on the way to I believe Vegas to to support Lewis for the race, my sister suffered a stroke. 37 years old.
41:11
That was probably the hardest moment I've ever had to kind of understand.
41:20
And I forget about the Olympics.
41:22
All right, I flew to Miami, opened the door and I see my sister with a with a feeding tube and a breathing tube.
41:27
Unfortunately, you know, it it's it's the times when you have to just lean into it and that was the first time I became a man.
41:38
And it's the first time I ever saw my mom cry. Sorry, mom.
41:41
But I just was like, okay, this is happening.
41:46
How do we find some type of silver lining in this moment?
41:53
And, you know, sitting in the hospital, writing things down, journaling, all those past situations prepared me for this.
42:02
I was able to just be a umbrella for the for the family and I think that was the moment where I I like, okay, wow, I I this.
42:13
You know, I've got two beautiful kids, you know, obviously this is, you know, domestic violence, which is which is one thing which is awful.
42:21
And I think this is my sister who as a brother, she understands all I want to do is, you know, is take care of my sister.
42:28
And you know, there's certain things that, you know, she won't tell you all these things because she knows what her what her what her brother would want to do.
42:34
And I I was like, "Okay, Miles, we're going to figure this out."
42:36
And I was able to make the Olympic team, which probably the first time anybody's going to know while dealing with this.
42:44
I'd fly from Japan to Miami, spend some time in the hospital, help out with the kids, changing nappies for the first time, you know, just being there for my family and my mom and and dad did the most incredible job I've ever seen of just becoming parents again.
43:01
And I think that's where whoever you believe in is is testing you because he knows you can handle it.
43:08
And I realized that I can handle anything.
43:09
And it was kind of compartmentalizing this is you know, going from the hospital ICU to a competition and somehow doing well is the biggest accomplishment I could I don't even know how I did it, to be honest with you. I've got no idea.
43:26
So, making the Olympics was like that was nothing.
43:28
So, I think that's when you feel helpless, right?
43:32
And you feel like I can't do anything because I literally can't do anything but just give positive love energy.
43:38
And I figured out a way to if I can make my my family feel at ease or smile and, you know, that's going to help through this process.
43:48
That to me was the first time I became a man. 100%.
43:50
So, now talking about it and and, you know, showing people what I had to go through, I think you realize why I go so hard because there's nothing that will stop me or can stop me.
44:04
Because I've seen my you know, my sister on those ICUs, which is the scariest place to be.
44:10
And as a brother, you know, making her smile and doing these things is why you're put on this on this planet Earth.
44:16
And I think you got people around you to talk about it.
44:19
Um, you know, Louis would fly in and see my sister.
44:24
You know, that's the most emotional thing I've ever been through is just time and support.
44:27
Knowing how busy he is and and, you know, Spins just being there for me is like beautiful.
44:33
So, I think if I can take that and as like my Dragon Ball Z and, you know, build that up and give it to the world.
44:44
We I can we can do anything.
44:46
>> Thank you for sharing. How is she now?
44:48
>> She's getting much better. Yeah, thank you.
44:49
She's, you know, she's actually in London. >> Oh, no. >> Yeah, with a match.
44:53
She can fly again and >> Okay.
44:55
>> you know, she's obviously recovery, you know, stroke is very extreme.
44:56
So, she still has to learn speech stuff back and >> Yeah, yeah, yeah.
45:00
>> But, she can function on her own and she's stronger than me.
45:02
So, and as, you know, as I'm still her little brother, but I became a big big big brother at that time.
45:09
>> I've seen people I know go through strokes and it's, I mean, yeah, it's one of the most scary things to watch someone you love go through. >> At 37. >> At 37.
45:17
That's yeah, that's >> Healthy. Run marathons. I can't run a marathon. >> Yeah.
45:21
>> Yeah, you got to, you know, choose your partner right and stress is is is a real thing.
45:26
>> Yeah, it puts everything into perspective those moments.
45:28
>> It's funny because at that time the Olympics is is everything for me.
45:31
When you get there, perspective is mad because it's like that's actually the the the the smallest thing you could accomplish in my life because it's obviously different things I want to do in my life, but it's funny how like at that time it's kind of make it my life is over.
45:47
You know, and then you make it, you're like I'm so grateful, but there's so much more to life than just that.
45:53
>> Miles, what are you most proud of in your life?
45:55
Cuz you talked about the hardest times, most difficult times.
45:58
What are you most proud of so far?
46:00
>> Never losing Miles along this journey.
46:03
I'm still the 12-year-old kid just 6'5 covered in tattoos.
46:07
And changing my sport forever is probably the two things I'm most proud of. Winning's great.
46:16
But changing a sport is bigger than any Olympic gold medal I could ever win.
46:18
I got a message recently that this kid used to get bullied in school.
46:23
Um a black kid as well from North Carolina. Mom sent me a message.
46:27
He showed them pictures of pictures of me at school and that changed which is crazy to me. Right?
46:34
So like that to me is so cool.
46:37
If I can just be a beacon of light to these kids, I've done my job.
46:41
I think that's what I'm most proud of.
46:43
>> You see you're like getting emotional about it.
46:45
>> Yeah, I never thought man.
46:45
I never in my life thought I would ever have impact on these kids. Never.
46:49
Cuz in fencing I never had anyone that I wanted to look look up to or be like.
46:54
So if I can see these kids, you know, at the league they come to me and they're like, "I love you."
46:58
I'm like, I love you know, it's >> [laughter] >> I love you too, but it's so beautiful to have this love from them.
47:03
And the parents are like, "Oh, you're so nice and kind and normal." I'm like, yeah.
47:08
My my parents raised me to be this way.
47:11
I think at the end of the day we're all human beings.
47:13
And as long as you got a good heart and good core, I think that that's that's the most important thing.
47:19
>> Definitely, definitely.
47:19
And you're you're surrounded by that too.
47:20
I mean like, you know, you mentioned Lewis there as well. Like he's so humble. He's so down to earth.
47:25
Like you would never know. You would never know.
47:26
Like, you know, he's the most honest human guy.
47:29
So like, who are the other athletes that you admire, that you talk to, that you pick their brain, that you try and understand their process as well and how they live life?
47:39
>> Well, one was definitely Kobe.
47:41
You know, like asking him questions like, "Do you really watch like lions eating prey before you know?" He's like, "Yeah."
47:48
>> [laughter] >> And I'm like, "Oh my god."
47:49
And just like that mentality is so rare.
47:55
You guys why he's, you know, the mentality.
47:57
That's one of them for sure. Michael Strahan as well.
48:00
He's been an amazing person of transitional from athlete to post athlete.
48:05
But yeah, there's not that too many I've spent too much time with where you're able to like sit down and really kind of dissect you. >> You're all busy.
48:13
Everyone's got a crazy schedule.
48:14
Athletes have the craziest schedules.
48:17
>> You know, it's I understand your time is just there's not my mom might be the wrong time or whatever, but I would say definitely I'll say Lewis Michael, Kobe.
48:27
Those are the kind of people that I've been able to, you know, you as well.
48:28
Um >> I've known athletes >> Like you said, you know, if you I think understanding your thoughts is the hardest part.
48:36
But yeah, there's not many I've really had the opportunity to spend time with beyond just hi, I respect what you do and best of luck.
48:44
>> Miles, what have I not asked you that you wish I did?
48:46
What have you not shared?
48:47
What have you not talked about?
48:48
>> Maybe all great great questions. Geez.
48:50
>> I was just curious, man.
48:50
I was like, you know, we just had fun last summer and that's all thanks to Lewis.
48:54
Big shout out to Lewis for connecting us, but I'm like, we just had a good time and I was like, I want to get to know this guy, you know, cuz you're obviously operating at a high level, but I didn't realize and this is what I love about doing this.
49:05
This is why I love this podcast so much is because I thought the most interesting thing was what you did.
49:13
And now I'm sitting with you, I'm like, no, what you've been through and what you've lived through and what you've learned is so much more interesting.
49:19
And and I think that's the reason why the podcast is called On Purpose because it's people's purpose and their mission and their values and their belief is so much more fascinating than what we do for work.
49:28
What we do for work is great, it's cool, but beyond that, there's a whole human that, you know, that lives and exists. >> Exactly, exactly.
49:35
And the human is like what keeps us going, it's the heart rate, it's everything, but at the end of the day, we have these gifts in life and it's like, how are you going to use these in the best way possible, right?
49:47
So, from little kid from London to having two Nike shoes never in my life, to creating a to a fencing league.
49:55
It's just all you need in life is self-belief.
49:57
I have a tattooed right here.
49:59
That's all you need in life.
50:01
If you have those, you know, pinnacles and those beliefs, you can do anything.
50:06
And I think, you know, meeting you is someone who I've been a fan of before getting to know you.
50:11
It's all he's even more incredible in person because you you're the same on camera and off camera, which very few people are like that, especially in the field you I think that's the case.
50:21
And when people see me, they're like, "Oh, you're nice and funny." I'm like, "Yeah.
50:25
Well, what did you think I was?"
50:27
So, yeah, you guys were a bad influence on me.
50:31
I played poker for the first time in 20 years cuz of these guys.
50:33
I hadn't played for 20 years and the fact that I won that night I was pretty impressed. You smoked us. What do you mean?
50:39
>> [laughter] >> You destroyed us.
50:40
Watching Louis go down was the best bit there.
50:42
Yeah, and he was like, "I'm buying in again."
50:43
I was like, "Okay, well, send me some money, bro.
50:46
Let's buy you I hadn't played for 20 years, but I was like, you know, I want to bond with the guys. Yeah.
50:49
Want to stay up, you know, want to hang out and stuff.
50:52
You guys were a bad influence on me for sure.
50:54
No, but you're one of us now, you know? You're in the wolf pack.
50:57
But it's That's what I'm so grateful for.
50:59
It's like connections beyond just, you know, these kind of surface level.
51:03
It's like I know that if I was to ever like talk to you about something, you'd give me an honest answer. I think that's the key.
51:08
It's I never want any friends or people around me that it's like, "Oh, you're doing good."
51:10
It's like, "Let me be real with you." I think that's the key.
51:13
It's whoever is around you is a reflection of yourself.
51:15
So, like you know, all the boys, Spence, they're all just amazing humans that pushed me to be a better person.
51:20
I think that's the key to why we're so special in our crew is because we keep each other accountable, we support each other, and we generally want each other to win.
51:31
For to I think is a very rare thing for people, especially men in general.
51:35
I was about to say, that's what's so impressive about it is that it's a group of men who are killing it on their sports, like doing incredible things, but at the same time have this like brotherhood that you guys have all built with each other, that feels like a massive massive thing to be proud of, especially when right now men are there's so much loneliness for men across the world. >> Yeah.
51:55
>> Especially in the States, the loneliness statistics are so high.
51:56
And men don't know how to connect with each other, they can't pick up the phone to each other.
52:01
What would you say to a man who's lonely, doesn't know how to pick up the phone to his friend and tell him how he feels? What would you say?
52:08
>> This quote was was we're just passing through.
52:10
And I tattooed it here where it's whatever moment you're feeling, know that's not forever. Right?
52:15
And I think that's something to understand is like this is not going to be forever, but also people want to know what is really going on with you.
52:24
And I think it's not you're not a burden.
52:27
It's actually a gift to be able to like have your friends you know, be honest and true to themselves about you.
52:31
Like that's actually I'd love to hear that.
52:33
Like it actually lightens my day, whether it's a a sad thing it's like, oh no, he really cares about me because he's coming to me as one of his last, you know, kind of resorts.
52:43
So, I would just say you're leaning to however you're feeling, but please just call your friends. Like you're never alone.
52:51
I'm grateful that I've never been in that situation, but if I ever was, I know I could call any of my boys up and they'll get me through it.
52:59
If you lose a race, lose a competition, I'm going to call you like, bro, this is how I feel.
53:04
And then you feel better.
53:04
Just know that this emotion is not forever.
53:08
And it's actually beautiful to talk to your friends about it because it actually makes me feel good knowing that you're coming to me.
53:13
So, someone's like it it's therapy for for for the both of us. >> What's that? >> Yeah, just just talk.
53:19
And I and being lonely like is I don't want anyone to feel lonely.
53:23
If I see a little kid at the club or at a competition, I'll just go up to them. Hey man, how are you? You all right? It takes 2 seconds.
53:32
And that might be like, oh, he said hi to me.
53:33
Like that might change that everything.
53:35
Also, I think knowing your your purpose and your celebrity in our minds of the fencing world.
53:44
Those moments change lives and I think seeing that is is is really really cool.
53:50
You know, I'll be driving sometimes I'll just I'll just scream, "I love you." Why not? >> Yeah.
53:54
You know, those small little gestures >> are just nice.
53:57
And I think, you know, I'm just generally a happy person, but if I can actually really really I love you with this is Spence's message to me and it was a quote it was like, "I make people feel better when they've left me."
54:09
>> And that was the best thing I could, you know, I could ever He sent it to me.
54:10
I was like, >> That is the best thing.
54:13
>> Like that feels, you know, >> That's my favorite type of person. >> You know? Like that feels so nice.
54:16
You're like, "Oh, I feel good now." >> Yeah.
54:18
>> So if I can if I can be that, please.
54:21
>> Sam walk us through the gear cuz it's going to bring back some memories for me, of course. >> Yeah, yeah.
54:26
>> Yeah, so >> I got two.
54:26
So this is These are my babies here. So we have two masks.
54:31
>> What's the difference in the masks?
54:33
>> Just like >> Just the swag.
54:34
>> Yeah, yeah, just the swag. >> Okay.
54:36
>> Um And then you can see through these. Yeah, perfectly. >> Okay. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah.
54:41
This is actually a gift for me. Gift to you. >> Oh, no way.
54:43
>> to sign it to you, yeah. >> No, no way.
54:45
>> Yeah, yeah, so this is This is all on my Olympic ones I use. >> No. >> Yeah.
54:48
>> Dude, that's very kind.
54:50
>> Yeah, and that's a gift >> I'm going to put that up in the studio. That's it.
54:52
>> That's literally one I used.
54:54
>> You got to sign this for me. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, that's so cool.
54:55
>> I used four and I And so that's that's one of them, yeah.
54:58
>> that means a lot, man. Thank you so much. That's amazing. What What an honor. That's so cool. This is sick.
55:03
>> So this is the a foil that I use.
55:06
And all of them are like customly made for your hands, right?
55:08
So like this is molded specifically for my hand.
55:10
And this is the one that I train with.
55:12
And then this is the tip now, which is what you know, but >> We used to have the rubber thing on.
55:17
>> Yeah, yeah, yeah, so that's like what you would train with normally, but this is like what I practice with like competition wise. >> Can I hold it? >> Yeah, of course.
55:24
>> This is like So this has been made specifically for your hand.
55:27
>> Yeah, so you're going to put your thumb towards the end of it. >> Yeah.
55:30
>> So right at at right towards the guard. >> Like this.
55:32
>> Yeah, underneath it and then grip it. >> Like that. >> Yeah. >> Wow.
55:35
Yeah, that's the grip strength in that is crazy, too.
55:38
>> My forearm has a massive muscle here because it's like all grip strength. >> Wow. >> Yeah.
55:41
And I have like, you know, a bunch of them.
55:44
>> Is there a difference in any of them or no, they just you just have multiple for >> I I'll like name them.
55:48
And like this is my baby number one, whatever.
55:51
>> But they're all the same weight.
55:53
>> Yeah, all the way same weight.
55:53
Try me the same balance if you can.
55:56
Like like you can, you know, about the balance.
55:58
>> What does the balance tell you like >> So like if it's more here, then it means it's more tip heavy.
56:01
And then if it goes back more, then it's more guard heavy.
56:04
>> So this is guard heavy. >> Yeah, exactly.
56:06
>> Cuz it just keeps tipping that way. >> Yeah.
56:07
So cuz my >> And what difference does that make when you're fighting?
56:11
>> For me it doesn't really matter.
56:11
But like sometimes if you want to attack them more, then it's it's easier if it's more tip heavy. >> Got it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
56:17
>> But for the most part, you can kind of just >> Yeah.
56:19
>> It's kind of crazy this is my job. >> Yeah, I know, I know.
56:22
>> This one is one that I won, I forget which world cup with, but this is um one that you're going to have as well. >> Oh, what? Oh, what?
56:29
Dude, you guys just keep giving me gifts.
56:31
>> No, those two I want to give you something that that I've used.
56:34
>> is that's what I >> Those two are legitimate gifts for you. >> Dude, you're kidding.
56:36
You don't have to do that. That's too generous.
56:39
>> I wanted it and then and then the tip broke off on someone. >> Oh, wow.
56:43
>> So there's a story behind it when we when we were competing.
56:45
>> a mark on them as well. >> Yeah.
56:47
So you can literally say like yeah, I almost if it was olden days, it might have went through them.
56:50
But those I'm going to give you >> Oh, that's very kind.
56:54
This is going to go up in the studio.
56:55
This is >> Yeah, yeah, yeah.
56:57
>> This is such a cool gift.
56:58
>> Cuz I bring like three or four with me.
57:00
And then I was like, I'm going to give Jay a gift. >> Oh, thank you, man. That's I'm touched. I'm really touched.
57:05
>> No, it's it's really it's honestly a pleasure. >> Thank you, man. That means a lot.
57:08
>> And now when I'm competing, oh look, he's got one here.
57:10
>> to sign this for me then.
57:11
>> Yeah, I will for sure.
57:11
>> Yeah, you're going to sign this for sure. >> 100%. >> Amazing.
57:14
>> But yeah, this is this is crazy this is my world and >> Was it hard to decide whether you fought for America or England?
57:20
>> Yeah, I mean my lawyer sister tells me every other day.
57:21
But I'm like if you can get me knighted, bro, we'll see. >> Oh, yeah.
57:26
>> But I did it >> Yeah, yeah.
57:27
>> Well, I didn't realize I was going to be a professional fencer.
57:30
I did it cuz we needed instead of an O-2 visa, we needed to just stay in the country.
57:33
And then my little sister was born in New York, and then that's how we got our citizenship.
57:37
And then I was like, oh wow, and then it was too late.
57:39
Did they try to have me do media training?
57:40
I was like, to switch my accent. >> Yeah.
57:44
>> You know, cuz they're all like, I'm from London.
57:45
And then I was like, I'm not I'm not I'm I'm not going to change it. >> Yeah, of course.
57:49
>> But, you know, obviously, you know, America's done amazing things for me, so I'm grateful for this country.
57:52
Um, but obviously, I was born in, you know, St.
57:56
Mary's Hospital, so >> Yeah.
57:58
>> [laughter] >> I'm still a London boy. But yeah. >> So cool, man.
58:00
Thank you for these gifts. >> My pleasure, mate. >> It's amazing.
58:02
>> I always like to come somewhere and give someone something.
58:05
>> No, that's very very thoughtful. That is very thoughtful.
58:07
>> Yeah, yeah, I thought >> Miles, this has been amazing.
58:08
Honestly, I feel like I got to know you on such a deep level.
58:11
This is the good thing about a podcast, too.
58:12
Even when you think you know someone, you sit down and talk to them for like an hour and a half and you're like, oh wait a minute, I didn't realize.
58:18
We end every episode of On Purpose with a final five.
58:20
These questions have to be answered in one sentence, maximum. >> It's okay.
58:25
>> Miles Chamley-Watson, this is your final five.
58:26
Question number one, what is the best advice you've ever heard or received?
58:31
>> It's never lost, it's always a lesson. >> Good advice.
58:34
Uh, question number two, what's the worst advice you've ever heard or received?
58:39
>> That you should never show emotion.
58:40
>> Oh, that's a great answer.
58:40
I don't think we've ever had that on the show. I like that.
58:44
Question number three, what makes a good friend?
58:48
>> Someone who you can call no matter what, who's always there for you, and who calls you not wanting anything.
58:56
>> That's the best phone call when neither of you need nothing, yeah.
58:59
>> Two hours of talking about nothing.
59:01
>> Yeah, I talk to my best man, who is my best man at my wedding, my best friend for the last 20 years.
59:04
I talk to him three times a week on the phone.
59:05
Cuz we're never catching up.
59:07
I already know what's going on in his life.
59:09
There's not Yeah, and there's never asking each other for anything. It's amazing.
59:13
Question number four, what's something that you used to value that you don't value anymore?
59:19
>> Something that I used to value is other people's attention.
59:24
Something that I value now is people's time.
59:30
You know, one thing I can think of is obviously the my league debut is and and obviously having someone come there to support me knowing how busy they are showing up for me knowing how important your time is means so much to me because I know that that time was was occupied.
59:46
So, knowing that your time is so important that you chose to spend it with me it is is bigger than doing anything for me.
59:53
>> Fifth and final question we ask assist every guest who's ever been on the show.
59:57
If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?
1:00:01
>> No matter the color of the of the person's skin you give them a hug. >> It's a good one. I like it.
1:00:07
>> A hug can cure everything.
1:00:09
Can I ask you a question? >> Yeah, go on.
1:00:11
>> What's the most thing that you're proud of?
1:00:12
>> There's I'd say two things.
1:00:12
One is when I get messages that say, you know, your work stopped me from committing suicide or helped me through my divorce or made me chase my dream or quit my job or whatever it was.
1:00:23
And getting to message that person back and say I didn't do it, you did.
1:00:27
Like I love that because I like reminding people that I don't have the answers.
1:00:31
They already know what they want to do.
1:00:33
I'm just glad that something I someone I interviewed, someone I sat down with had that impact on them.
1:00:39
And the second thing I'd say is that I feel like I'm really grateful that I get to be the postman for this 5,000-year-old tradition.
1:00:50
So, just as you're the face of fencing, for me I got to study this Eastern tradition of the Gita, the Bhagavad Gita, which is a book which is 5,000 years old.
1:00:59
And I'm just today's messenger of it.
1:01:02
And I'll be forgotten and that's all good, but the message continues on and I feel so grateful that I get to be the messenger for an empire that is much bigger than I am and much longer lasting than I am and how lucky I am that I get to be that person.
1:01:14
So, yeah, those would be my two.
1:01:17
>> Well, don't flip any more questions, Miles. >> No, no, no.
1:01:19
That That's That was an amazing answer.
1:01:20
My mom sends me lots of clips and half of them are from you.
1:01:25
>> [laughter] >> It's amazing.
1:01:25
But keep doing what you're doing, man, and grateful to call you a friend.
1:01:28
But what you do is is remarkable. >> Appreciate it, Miles.
1:01:31
Everyone who's been listening and watching, make sure you clip this up, share it on social media, let me know what resonated.
1:01:37
Miles dropped so many gems.
1:01:38
I feel like there were so many nuggets of wisdom.
1:01:40
He's been dropping more quotes than I did today.
1:01:43
So, make sure you clip them up.
1:01:43
I want to see what resonated with you, what connected with you.
1:01:46
And of course, if you're an aspiring fencer, aspiring athlete, aspiring anything, I think there's so many great mindset pieces in this episode that will help you get to where you want to be.
1:01:56
Big thank you to Miles again for coming through.
1:01:58
Excited to keep supporting you, keep building our friendship.
1:02:02
And let this be the first of many. So. >> Thank you. It's an honor. I'll see you soon. >> Thank you. Absolutely, man.
1:02:07
If you love this episode, you'll love my conversation with four-time Grand Slam champion Aryna Sabalenka, where she reflects on her latest victory and the mental battles that almost broke her along the way.
1:02:21
>> For me, success is the discipline that you put in.
1:02:23
Be there every morning, every practice, doesn't matter how you feel, doesn't matter if you want it.