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When you're on the field, kill the other dude.
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When you're not on the field, you don't have to kill the other dude.
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But when you're on the field, you want to win.
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You just have to realize when you're not on the field.
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The problem is I don't think people don't realize when they're not on the field.
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The best-selling author and host The number one health and wellness podcast with Jay Shetty If you could say that these are the couple of the biggest changes you've seen in the last three decades uh in this industry in the world that you're most astounded by?
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Because I think we're getting used to change.
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I think for I didn't grow up with a phone.
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Like I got my first phone when I was 13 or 14 and it was a Sony Ericsson like brick with a little antenna. Yeah, the flip phone.
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I I yeah, it was one of those yeah, one of those old flip phones, Sony Ericsson, had a little, you know, antenna on top of it.
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My mom had one of the big like chunky brick style phones.
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But I feel like we're getting so used to change being so rapid that we actually don't spot patterns.
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Have you spotted any patterns over the last three decades?
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What would you say they are?
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I don't know if there's patterns, you know, I I but I think you have to look at them in different sectors, whether it be tech, whether it be the entertainment business.
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The one pattern I do see change is happening a lot faster.
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So the pick up the phone probably took seven years.
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The speed of adaptation, the one big change, it's just now happening very quickly.
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And that just lets people you better be really comfortable in the uncomfortable and change.
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And that's a mindset, that's a process to get to.
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That's what you have to realize it's hap And all this is going to happen a lot quicker now.
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Which is I don't think it's good or bad, it just is what it is.
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Yeah, I love what you just said there.
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So my entire show, I just went on a world tour and the entire show was based on the premise of getting the audience to sit in discomfort.
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So I would literally bring up random audience members and one of them was locked in a box on stage for 15 minutes alone without any sound.
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We had other audience members come up and have to do tasks they're uncomfortable with.
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I love the idea of getting comfortable You better breathe through it.
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You better breathe through it. the only way to do it.
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I was going to ask you like how have you trained your mind to be comfortable with discomfort?
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I I'm not sure any of us are really comfortable with ourselves as we mature and kind of get into I said this to a client today.
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I said there was a period of time I just didn't want anybody to find out that I really wasn't that bright and it was you know, I was scared. Right?
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And with that I think goes back to my childhood and being dyslexic and not believing that you know, I'm okay. I'm not stupid, right?
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In my family of stupid was a the definition and smart with the but I started fasting and once you start doing it it's not comfortable.
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And I just started telling you know, start that little voice No, I'm not giving in to a little voice.
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No, I'm getting up even though I don't want to get up.
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And then it's that conversation you're constantly have is that somebody said my constant negotiation with myself.
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And now it's if I'm I meditate for 20 minutes every day, it's not easy sitting there for 20 minutes.
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You your toe itches something and you got to get through it.
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And it's just oh, I'm going to do a cold bath for 5 minutes every day. That's not fun.
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And it's just teaching your body No, you can get through this.
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I'm not listening to that voice.
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I'm just breathing through it.
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I'm just getting through it.
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And it's been probably 15 years of of that and it translates into business because then Okay, we're taking over IMG.
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I'm going to move to London for 4 months.
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Kids in the family is going to be on the East Coast for the summer and it's going to be brutal.
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And yeah, you can do that and or the any of these new tasks that you take on cuz you're telling yourself a story that whether it's going to be good or bad. That's not the truth.
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You have to just realize that thing's not the truth, and you just have to go through it.
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Yeah, it's not going to be easy. So what? Who cares?
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Like, yes, that's part of the process.
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That's actually part of the interesting thing that we're all doing. So. Yeah.
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No, I love that because it did start though with not eating. Yeah. Interesting.
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The the you know, the when I started learning about what fasting does or eating windows do to your body and autophagy and etc. etc.
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That then got your mind, okay, I can do this, and then you just start building on that.
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I probably am past the point of health emotionally healthy, but yes, I'm way past it. But yeah.
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No, but I love that because that's super practical, right?
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Like that's not an ethereal concept.
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The idea is you are able to put yourself through things that you didn't want to do, Nope.
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but that were actually good for you.
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And I find that that's I hope. Right?
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Yeah, you hope that Yeah, you hope that.
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But the idea that most of what we don't want to do, that we choose to do, is actually what helps us get ahead in life.
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I say said this to my kids.
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You know, success is a lot of things we're talking about.
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One of it is, and that goes to kind of putting yourself is showing up.
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Like, there's a voice saying, "You mean I got to get on that plane for 16 hours?
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I got to just go have a lunch, and I got to fly back from China?
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I don't want to do that."
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Okay, it said I don't want to do it, that little voice. I'm doing it.
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And and learning to say, "Oh, that's the voice.
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No, I'm I'm getting on the plane."
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And showing up, kind of going through it.
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Yeah, that's that's part of growing up and being successful.
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A lot of people are too lazy to fight that voice.
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And over time, when you get older, and I'm a lot older than you, you don't want to fight the voice.
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And all the things I do now is, I think, because as you get older, that voice takes over more and more. It's easy.
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You know, don't get up at 5:00 and work out. No, don't do this. No. I do it. I don't care.
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As soon as As soon as that voice turns on, I say, "I'm I'm doing this."
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Yeah, it's really interesting you say that because I feel like a lot of people say they can't hear their inner voice, and it's because that inner voice was so loud when we were younger.
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It was so loud when we were younger.
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But, it gets quieter and quieter and quieter because the other voice, we kept listening to it, and it got louder and louder and louder.
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And so, now we're having to unlearn that loud voice, and and relearn the quiet voice.
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For me it started with um fasting periods.
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You know, I do the 24 and I do 16, and sometimes a 48 or 60.
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And and it's then kind of evolved into multiple things to keep it exercise that I cannot listen to the voice. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
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And you need friends who push you too.
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I remember a few years ago, you know, whether it was skydiving or whether it was cold plunges, as you mentioned there.
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It's like you need to be surrounded by a community.
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I just literally I've got some friends from London staying with me right now this week, and I took them to do a cold plunge with me.
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You know, every day we'd be doing a hike every morning.
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We've been doing infrared saunas every And they they don't do that. do that.
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They They've never done it before, and it was just interesting.
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they do on their cold plunge?
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They did really well, and they were saying that because we were I was like trying to coach them through it and helping them breathe.
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So, on their first time, they did the first one One of them did 4 minutes, and the other did 3 on their first time.
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And it was amazing Yeah, amazing.
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have to get past the first minute. Exactly. Exactly.
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So, it was a brilliant result, but it was that idea of your community, of people around you.
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When you were I love what you just said there, that you were scared at one point in your life of being figured out Yeah. as not being so smart.
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And you said that came from your childhood, and yeah, you had ADHD, dyslexia from from what I've researched.
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Walk me through how that idea stays even after you're starting to see success.
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Because I think people believe that when you become successful, when you close your big deal, when you build a company, that some of that goes away.
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You know, Arnold Schwarzenegger, did you see that documentary? Uh which one? The Game Changers?
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most recent one that he did.
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He It's just about him kind of growing up and bodybuilding. think so. I don't think it's so.
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So, he talks about you know, he won Mr. Olympia.
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And everybody was telling him how great his body was. Right?
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And they're all looking like, "Oh my god."
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In his head, he was saying, "This is wrong. That's wrong. This is wrong."
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And you're like, "Nobody would have said that to him." Yeah.
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You know, some people say it's your inner voice, your shadow.
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My My shrink used to tell me it's your shadow.
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Maybe people were thinking I was successful.
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I was thinking about that kid that couldn't read.
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And that during Passover didn't want to read the questions because I cuz I was the youngest and going into that so I That's why I hate Passover now.
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The anxiety I had when I was a kid.
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And so, it's just kind of upbringing. Yeah.
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Um I'm no longer dealing with those issues.
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It's not like I'm beating my chest I'm successful, but I'm comfortable.
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And it's that in a good way drove me.
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Like I'm going to prove everybody wrong and you know, any bully comes up to me, yep, we're going to get in a fight.
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Anybody calls me stupid, yep, we're going to get in a fight physi- you know, that's when I was young. And it's just held over.
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And then there's the point in time where you say, "Okay, I'm not doing this anymore.
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I'm I I I have to deal with these crazy stupid Yes, you're successful. Yes, it's okay.
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Nothing's being taken away from you."
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And so, that just came with age.
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A lot of shrinks and uh uh a lot of uh other therapies that we'll get into later. Yeah, yeah.
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No, no, but I think it's really important because I think there's two things there.
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One is that it doesn't go away on its own. No.
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Revenge is not the solution or proving someone wrong.
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No, kind of um I would say good way to start.
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Revenge and um I would say anger Mhm.
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Got you to a certain point. Yeah.
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after you get to a certain point, if you stay with anger and and resentment and and fear, you you only can get to a certain point in in your life.
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And once you make the transition that you know something, that's never going to get me over the hump and you have to get both go a little deeper and that's scary um and takes work.
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When you know, when you sit in yoga, I don't know what it is, it just opens up things to come to you and the process to come to you.
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And that's what happened at, you know, um I don't know when it when it really happened.
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Uh probably 12, 15 years ago that I was on this journey to kind of find out I don't want to be that guy that's somebody says something, I go to code red nine. That's not healthy.
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That's way too much energy. Yeah.
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It's emotional energy that, you know, is exhausting. Absolutely. And that's what it is. It's exhausting.
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It's draining and it takes away from that creative energy, the spark that's So let things in that actually need to come in that then you can see the world differently and like, wait a second, like you're not seeing it through those eyes. Mhm.
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You're seeing it through a different like, wait a second, what about this? What about that?
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And you you can be creative.
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That's a better place to be. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
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I wanted to ask you as well, I mean, you probably get asked this all the time, but I think it's important context setting for everyone who's listening.
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The idea of like sitting in the discomfort you were talking about it.
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My wife and I are huge Entourage fans and I can imagine that it's cool but uncomfortable to have your image displayed in a certain way that has pros and cons and That was There was and there was aspects to that character 100% true. Which ones?
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You know, I I was very aggressive and you know, when we started the business, we couldn't compete on price cuz commissions were commissions.
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There was five other big players in the and we just had a one be more creative, two more aggressive, um and and fight.
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So, yeah, that was true to form.
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I mean, not all of it, but in the surrounding Yes.
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Um I don't know what Entourage would be now, that character. Yeah. So, um yeah.
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Yeah, and what were what was stuff where you're like, that's definitely not me?
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Like, what were there anything Well, I don't know. I Yeah.
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To be candid, that show gave me anxiety. Yeah, I can imagine. That's what I'm saying. I can imagine. me a lot of anxiety.
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What So, I didn't watch a lot. Right. And people now watch it.
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I mean, during We watched it in the pandemic.
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pandemic, I got a lot of calls from guys I know that had kids and the kids started watching kids in college started watching.
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I was like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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I I didn't see that episode.
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I You know, I did watch the episode, which I never did.
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I think he started use a Scott guy working on people. I didn't see that.
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I mean, I did see that, but I didn't do that.
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Um Yeah, that's that good to know you didn't use a Scott guy.
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Yeah, that's that's important.
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How have you harnessed or how has your aggression matured in business?
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Because the reason why I raised that is because I think you know, we we kind of swing in pendulums in the world.
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So, if you think about business back then and how we viewed Wall Street and even when I was growing up, like the dream was to be an investment banker.
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That's what everyone was becoming in London and that was the big goal when I was a kid.
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And did you want to become one?
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I wanted to become one without knowing what it was. Right. Yeah, right?
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Like, you know, that that's what happens and I went to Cass Business School and did management science and I was training to go off into the corporate world because that's what I thought you had to do.
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Don't you remember when you were growing up, the objective was how big the stack was? Yes.
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I never had that objective. No, same.
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For whatever reason, my parents didn't That was not the objective.
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It was to do well in the world and make the world a better place all of a Absolutely.
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And I think a lot of my friends that was how big is the stack? Totally. Same same for me.
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It was I I didn't grow up with a lot.
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My parents didn't have a lot, but they always gave in charity.
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They helped the community.
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My mom did a ton of community work and then I obviously met monks when I was 18 years old.
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So like that became my paradigm shifted massively.
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And I was always far more creative than than anything else and that's what I enjoyed.
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But I guess the question I'm asking is I think we've gone from that very aggressive, very competitive, brash, harsh energy.
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And then we swing to this pendulum where everyone's like, well no, you just got to be fully like empathetic and vulnerable and compassionate.
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I'm like, so how do Yeah, so here's what it is.
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What is the middle ground balance?
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Because the answer is always somewhere in the middle.
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Here's here's somebody really smart person, I won't say who, told me.
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You have to know and this only comes with time and maturity, when you're on the field.
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When you're on the field kill the other dude.
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When you're not on the field you don't have to kill the other dude.
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For you it's got to be a good deal, for me it's got to be a good deal, etc.
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But when you're on the field you want to win.
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You just have to realize when you're not on the field. Mhm.
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The problem is I think people don't realize when they're not on the field. Mhm.
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And that has come over time like when am I on the field?
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Okay, when I'm on the field I'm playing to win.
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When I'm not on the field I can be in a different mindset.
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That shift for me going to fear, anger, da da da I always thought I was on the field.
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And for a long time Yeah.
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to get the company where I wanted, I was always on the field. Mhm.
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Now I don't have to be on the field all the time.
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And that not being on the field enables you to think properly and and just let things in and and grow that gets you to other things that all of a sudden affect the field in a different way.
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You you have different moves.
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It's it's probably how great players as they get older, LeBron James, Michael Jordan, they their bodies are not the same, but they're better players because they just know how to do it differently.
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So, when I'm not on the field, I'm not on the field.
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When I'm on the field, I'm playing pretty hard. Yeah.
15:35
That's That's a really unique insight.
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I like that because I feel like that's also what challenges people in their personal relationships.
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Because not only are people not on and off the field in business, they don't know how to switch it off when they go home. Yeah.
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And so your wife and your kids or your husband or your partner or whoever it may be ends up getting that same treatment as you do at work because you haven't reached that maturity level of knowing how to And it's not as easy as a light switch. Oh, no.
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Like it's not just Oh, I'm work hat off, work hat on.
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It doesn't work like that.
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And your partner, depending on what they do, you might be off the field, they might be on the field.
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They want to be on the field.
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Right, cuz they're going through their thing.
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It's just like that's what it is. Yeah, yeah. So.
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Yeah, we just I just got back from tour and we went to Bali for a couple of weeks just to relax with me and my wife.
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And it's so Funny cuz she's in the What does she She's a vegan chef and recipe developer and incredible with knows everything about Ayurveda and herbs and nutrition and she's made me very healthy compared to what I used to be.
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But But she's on the field right now cuz her career is booming.
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She's doing incredibly well and it's so fun to watch.
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And it's so funny cuz I was like, "Yeah, we're going to Bali."
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She's like, "You know what?
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I think we're going there for a bit long."
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And I was like, "That was me."
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Like I used to say that like 5 years ago.
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And so it's just like, "Okay, It's not only your life.
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You have two people and you just have to navigate uh I'm not on the field.
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She Okay, I got to think about this.
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Maybe even though I want to be there 3 weeks, maybe it's only a week and a half. Yeah, yeah.
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And I'll just be off the field here.
16:56
I'll figure out what to do. Yeah, yeah.
16:58
And And I think it's hard because I think yeah, we struggle when you've done for for other people, too, when you've said things when you were on the field, it's hard for the person, especially in business, for now to view you differently when you're off the field.
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It's Every marriage, every relationship, every personal situation changes after 10 years.
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I was I'm not the same person I was from 95 to 2005.
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I'm not the same person from 2005 to 2015.
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I'm definitely not the same person from 15 now.
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And yeah, people's viewpoints of me is probably what it was in 97, 98, and let me just say something.
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That guy was not I mean he was a good guy, but he was always on the field and he was ashamed, nervous, angry fighter.
17:45
Not that I'm not aspects of those things working on them, but Yeah. Yeah, that changes. It's hard.
17:50
they come into your relationship, they have all this now they can read everything, see everything and like oh, that's the guy. Yeah. Or not.
17:56
That's why I'm doing this, dude.
18:01
I'm such a gentle, nice, hugging Well, no, I I the reason why I always enjoy these conversations is because I think I struggle with that in perception, too, where I feel people believe that someone who is mindful or meditative has to be a certain way at all times.
18:16
Do you know when you're on the field? Yeah, absolutely.
18:19
Yeah, yeah, and and I that's why I love that piece of advice is that you you said it in a way that I think makes it so easy to think about and that's why I really appreciate it.
18:26
And that's exactly what it is for me.
18:27
Like and and my team knows that.
18:29
They they can see that when I'm in the zone and I'm not or where I'm wearing my home kit or away kit. Like however you put it. Like Yes.
18:36
I I totally I like that home kit. Yeah.
18:38
Home jersey, away jersey, right?
18:40
Like and I can I can feel that and I think that you have to know that.
18:43
But I think the idea is that we like to simplify people because it makes it easier for us to If you're going after the stack and that's the goal, right? Which is like crazy. Like Agreed.
18:57
It's so arbitrary, the stack.
19:00
You're always on the field. Yeah.
19:02
What you don't realize is you can be happy at whatever the level the stack is. Yeah.
19:08
There's just a different way to think about it.
19:09
And you will get to a very big stack by figuring out this first.
19:12
If when you're on the field or when you're off the field. Absolutely.
19:16
And and I think that's the difference.
19:18
I wanted to ask you the difference in success and happiness, or success and contentment.
19:24
Because you've It sounds like you've worked on both and tried to be conscious of both.
19:30
What How have you seen the difference and and how do you work on them both? never content before. Mhm.
19:35
Probably the first 20 years of business.
19:38
I mean, I was just I was going to prove everybody wrong.
19:40
I was going to prove to myself I wasn't stupid.
19:42
I was a la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la running hard.
19:45
When I say this word, that doesn't mean that I'm not in business. I'm content.
19:50
And all the things I thought about that I wanted to accomplish and how I saw the world kind of played out. I'm a really lucky guy.
19:59
I'm comfortable that I'm not stupid.
20:02
And I got a lot more I want to accomplish because I want to accomplish it, not to get the stack any bigger. Mhm.
20:08
And I'm happy doing that.
20:12
That's a completely different place from the first 20 years where I had no idea.
20:16
I just I thought about the stack and what success was in such a different way than I think about it now.
20:24
And do you think everyone There's that brilliant quote from Jim Carrey where he said that everyone should become rich and famous and achieve everything they ever wanted just to realize that it's not the point.
20:34
Do you think that there is something He said that? Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's genius. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
20:39
And it's uh I love that statement because I feel like there's something There's something about pursuing success as you see it, which may not be a perfect definition. Right.
20:47
Experiencing some success and then going, "Well, wait a minute. This wasn't it."
20:49
And I feel like because you always hear successful people say, "Oh, it isn't there."
20:52
But it's almost like I think Oh, I'm happy where I am.
20:54
I'm really con- I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm Yeah.
20:58
so glad that it played out.
20:58
Those statements are actually accurate, you know, like it's enabled me now to kind of when I started this 12 years of whatever to get to this place.
21:09
I'm not sure I would have ever gotten to it.
21:11
Yeah, with a different mindset. Yeah.
21:14
Yeah, and in 95 you had a big accident, right?
21:16
Like there was something that really changed it was 93. 93.
21:20
I was working at ICM there was a breakfast place called Kate Mandelinis.
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I was walking down Wilshire it was about three blocks away.
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Coming back and I and just sitting on the curb I said to myself I was going to the breakfast like wow, you know, I got to move back from this curb these guys could hit you and I was not in the street.
21:33
Cut to I'm walking back from breakfast in the crosswalk right outside of where the ICM building was.
21:43
In a flatbed truck didn't see me took a left onto Wilshire hit my left side 9:00 in the morning Friday. Guess what happens? Your life changes.
21:55
You like life's not a dress rehearsal.
21:58
Was laying in there I just wiggled my fingers and toes I said okay I'm not crippled.
22:03
Kind of my I was outside my body screaming.
22:05
I was laying there watching myself scream.
22:09
And then I just said to myself life's not a dress rehearsal.
22:10
I did a rehab cuz I couldn't bend my leg.
22:14
And then I did a surgery on my leg.
22:17
And then I did another rehab so that was 18 months of hell.
22:21
And now I said what do you want to do?
22:24
And I definitely didn't want to be at ICM.
22:27
Yeah, what was that what was the phrase I used to hear when I was at ICM back in 90s it was like I cover myself.
22:30
That's what it stood for. So there was no Mhm.
22:34
comradery culture anything.
22:34
And so me and three other guys decided to start when I could be healthy and they and we kind of got it in 95 on my birthday March 29th we let loose.
22:48
So and that that was the catalyst to say life's not a dress rehearsal you better get to what you want to get to.
22:55
And that kind of thesis is the at the 20 year mark changing in I look at life and am I still going to be that angry guy and you know all the different routes we all take in our lives to get to where the end is, so. Yeah.
23:09
Did you try and change certain aspects of the culture based on that statement that you built or did you find that I just wanted to treat people well.
23:23
You know, inside and share clients and communicate better and there was a guy by the name of Phil Raskin, the first employee. And uh they fired him.
23:31
In the Israeli army, you don't let anybody stay.
23:33
You know, you know, you you take you you you go get the bodies.
23:39
So I said, "You're hired." Now we had no money.
23:40
We were not making any money.
23:40
And I said, "We're hiring you if they're firing you."
23:45
And how we treat people was kind of the crucial thing different about how we did things. Um I think one of them.
23:52
And uh I think it's progressed.
23:57
I don't know if it's perfect now.
24:00
You'll you'll have to ask the guys running the agency right now, but I think overall I hope people feel that way.
24:05
What was it like building something from scratch when there wasn't any money?
24:08
Because I feel like it's easy to look at you now and every you know, it's Well, it was 2 years. Yeah.
24:11
And No salary cuz you're out on your own.
24:15
There's Well, we were being we were we were in a tussle with ICM over commissions and cuz we couldn't take the commissions cuz they said they deserved it cuz we had a contract this whole like and they were going to sue us for certain things and um and so we had no money.
24:31
I mean, we knew things we had money, but a lot of stuff was old stuff.
24:36
About a year and a half, 2 years in, we settled.
24:39
I might be getting dates wrong, but right around then. And then we had money.
24:43
And and in that period of time, the world changed.
24:45
Michael Ovitz left the business who was the god and Ron Meyer, um Bill Haber, and then uh Gavin Polone left this company UTA.
24:55
Um and a lot of shifting happened and we had put on we had taken a couple people from um CAA uh Marty Adelstein and and we put on a bunch of TV shows that were successful and we had money because of those because they were going into syndication and packages.
25:11
And so it was like free agency in baseball.
25:13
We have money and people are like shifting what are they doing and we were home.
25:19
We got you know, we just timing.
25:20
And we were in the right place at the right time.
25:22
What was the hardest thing you had to do in those two years? You just had to work.
25:25
You know, with no money in the time.
25:28
Just putting in the time and you were doing 17-hour 18-hour days.
25:34
Wife was pregnant at the time my ex-wife with our eldest um and uh keep on building and how are we going to do it and you know, the five of us I think Marty would have joined and then two and a half years in Patrick Whitesell had joined and just kind of how we keep on progressing and and doing it like with no None of us had ever done it before.
25:57
We were all as my father would say in in Yiddish, we were all pishers, you know, like small nothings and so we just figured it out. It's a good deal.
26:04
but but you know, it wasn't like oh, we went from no money to us. Yeah. It was nothing.
26:11
And it was we were happy. Yeah.
26:13
We were really happy cuz we were in our own heads it was it was successful and it was hard but we had fun. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
26:20
Yeah, while I was a student and before I ever started doing things online, I I used to do events in my local area in London and like 10 people would show up every week to hear me speak about spirituality, psychology, human behavior and I loved it.
26:37
I did it for 10 years before So wait a second.
26:40
You you you went to school to possibly be a a banker. Yeah.
26:44
And then what what Not that this we're going to reverse the interview now.
26:45
What was the transition to like oh, I don't want to do do What happened in your mind or or our life event?
26:51
So, I think life event that I met a monk and I'd never met a monk before at school.
26:56
So, they they would come in we'd have speakers come in whether it be CEOs or athletes or celebrities or former alumni or whatever it may be and one day a monk was invited to speak at at a small college session and some of my friends were getting session?
27:10
No, no, no, not a business session.
27:12
Just just a general like yeah.
27:14
And I was invited to go because some of my friends were getting into meditation at the time.
27:17
This is early like we're talking about like 2006, 2007.
27:19
So, we were doing that and it was and and my friends were were kind of getting into that space.
27:25
So, they were telling me to come along and I was like yeah, I'll go if we go to a bar afterwards.
27:28
Like that's the kind of guy I was growing up.
27:31
And so, I went along to this event. You were single? I'm 18 years old.
27:34
I'm I'm you know, about to start college around that time.
27:37
And so, I I go to this event and I hear this monk speak and I'm kind of there going okay, when are we going to leave?
27:43
Like who cares about this stuff?
27:43
What how does this benefit my life?
27:46
And I actually walked away feeling completely just reflective because this monk was saying that the greatest gift was to use your skills in the service of others.
27:55
Like he was saying that whatever you've been given That was his main theme.
27:59
That was his main theme to improve other people's lives and it was like I'd never heard that from anyone before 18 and I realized that when I was 18 I'd met people who were rich and famous and beautiful thought that was that that that was the stack.
28:10
Yeah, but I was like this is this guy seems happy. He seems content.
28:13
He has something that At what point in the lecture did that like hit you?
28:17
Because at one point you're saying let's go go get some beers.
28:21
Yeah, at the beginning I was kind of like okay, what is he going to say when he came out and you know, he's dressed in robes and he he was from India and like you know, I'm a kid in London like you know, there's nothing externally attractive about him.
28:30
And then as he spoke like as I actually listened to him, I was just mesmerized.
28:34
And so, I said to him I just want to follow you around.
28:37
So, I ended up following him around for the rest of that week.
28:39
He was doing events in London, homes and different things and then at temples and then I started visiting him in my summer and Christmas vacations in India. Wow.
28:50
And then when I graduated from college, I went and actually lived with him as a monk for for 3 years in India and the UK.
28:56
And what did your parents say?
28:56
They were like completely like scared and worried and yeah, and all of our friends and family like he's been brainwashed.
29:03
It was It was like it's really interesting because and and I'll talk to this about perception.
29:07
It's really interesting because everyone now is kind of like, "Oh, Jay, you just, you know, this is a good story."
29:11
And I'm like, "Dude, when I chose to become a monk, it was not a good story.
29:15
People thought it was the dumbest idea of all time.
29:16
Like it was like career suicide.
29:20
Like what did this poor kid do? Like what what happened?
29:22
Like what happened to this kid who got a first-class honors degree at university, straight A's, you know, like what is going on here?
29:27
And all of a sudden I'm taking this path Your parents must have freaked out.
29:31
My parents freaked out and my extended family freaked out even more, which made my parents freak out more. They came from India? Correct. Yeah, yeah.
29:38
So that upbringing and that going back that way? Oh my god. Yeah, exactly.
29:42
So And but I felt called.
29:46
I started listening to my inner voice when I was 14 years old and it's been so loud ever since.
29:49
I don't know any other way to go.
29:51
And so for me, it was so so loud.
29:54
And so that was the shift in my trajectory where So you come out after 3 years. What happened?
29:58
I hoped I'd do it forever uh and that I really thought I was going to do it for the rest of my life. It did not work out.
30:04
And so what was why why Couple of things.
30:05
One thing was like it's super tough on your health to live communally.
30:08
Like when you're living potentially sometimes with 30 people in a room, 100 people in a room, people wake up at different times.
30:13
You're being woken up by everyone.
30:14
The common cold, you're sharing baths, showers, like you know, like Your life.
30:20
everything's communal in that space.
30:22
It's hard on my It was hard on my immune system to live in that way.
30:24
Of course, I'm a kid from London.
30:25
Like I didn't grow up with lots of comforts, but it was definitely more comfortable than a monastery.
30:29
And then on top of all of that, I just had this honest transparency and that's what monk teachings are meant to do.
30:36
It's meant to make you self-aware.
30:37
And my self-awareness was I'm quite independent. I'm quite a rebel.
30:40
Like I like doing things my way and I feel that. This is not that.
30:45
I feel like I want to share what I've learned in this cool, accessible, relevant way. is.
30:51
Yeah, where the world is, which is the world I come from.
30:52
And if I stay here, then I'm actually going to be pretending to be someone I'm not.
30:56
And so, it's like, I'm going to go back and, you know, be myself.
31:00
that's a big that's a big thought. It was.
31:02
It was and I had no idea what that meant then, but I just know that it was loud and that it was real and that It It had a It had to happen. It had to happen.
31:09
It was You know, I think it's it's funny.
31:11
Your your brother said this about you.
31:13
He said that He said this in his in his book, Brother's Manual, the speed, danger, and risk that make other people nervous make guys like Ari serene.
31:22
And and it's and I want to dive into that with you, but for me, that's what it was that You didn't know where it was, but you knew you had to be on that road.
31:29
Yes, and and I don't know how to stop myself I can't pretend to myself is is where I've always been.
31:35
Like, I have to be all of myself and I'm And when decisions are against the grain and no one agrees, chances I'm on the right path.
31:44
And so, even when I came back, then I had the opposite where everyone around me was like, "You wasted 3 years.
31:50
Look at everyone around you, they've got jobs now."
31:52
What are they saying now? Yeah.
31:52
Well, I mean, obviously it changes now, but obviously it changes now, but but it's anyway Isn't it I I I had this I sent this email out to the company.
32:04
You know, most people think success is this. Yeah.
32:08
That's success and that you just It's your journey. Yeah.
32:10
And it just You don't know where it's still going, but it's probably going to go this way and then it's going to go that, you know. Yeah.
32:16
How have How have you had the courage, going back on that same point, how have you had the courage to be open to speed, danger, and risk when other people thought, especially what what I think we don't recognize is as you become more successful, as you make bigger decisions, it's not that just more doors open, sometimes there's even more doubt because now people are like, "Can he Can he get the next one right?"
32:37
Most people don't want to risk it all. Correct.
32:39
Once you get to something like, "Why would I risk that?" Correct. Like, "Why do that?
32:42
You're It's going to be on a perfect glide path." Yeah.
32:44
So, I've said this before in certain interviews.
32:47
I don't remember exactly which one.
32:48
When you're in a class and you're figuring out where to sit in the class because you think you've psychologically figured out if you I sit here, the teacher won't call on you to read.
33:00
And you're so anxious and you're so nervous and you're so afraid.
33:02
It's not like I don't get anxious about big deals.
33:08
I mean, I got really sick doing the UFC deal.
33:12
I Moving I am Moving to London not great for 4 months when we took over, right? Yeah, so what?
33:18
Uh you know, I'm not nervous about those things. I don't know why. It's just my upbringing.
33:26
Uh you know, things I went through that I could get over.
33:30
So, working hard, doing all the things showing up, you know, getting on that plane for the lunch in China and then flying back after the lunch.
33:39
That's kind of how I operate my life.
33:41
I don't know how what my mom fed me or did and my dad.
33:48
But, yeah, I'm not I'm not worried about the hard work and all of it takes hard work as you know.
33:53
And I'm not trying to prove to anybody what I'm not letting their definition of success, not success, what I should do, what I shouldn't do dictate what I want to do like you.
34:06
I got my own ideas about what I want to do.
34:07
I just keep on following them.
34:10
Hopefully, I keep on getting in tune with my voices.
34:12
Definitely listening to people in my life that I trust.
34:14
But then, you know, it's like, "Okay, it's time to bet."
34:18
Like we just did with WWE and doing something new and here's what we're going to do.
34:24
Yeah, those are not easy decisions and Yeah, it's it's really interesting because even uh But I'm very comfortable in the uncomfortable. Yes.
34:32
I'm really comfortable in the uncomfortable.
34:33
I think when most people don't like uncomfortable conversations, don't like to be uncomfortable in business, don't like that, I do enjoy that a lot. I like awkward.
34:47
I'm comfortable in awkward.
34:47
I like just saying what it is. I do not care.
34:53
You can like me, not like me.
34:53
I was never one of the cool guys. I'm good.
34:59
I I I think it was so funny cuz Mike Milken was sitting in your seat yesterday, just here.
35:03
And and it was interesting because there's this shared experience of there's a healed sense of self-worth, but then there's this embracing our own insignificance.
35:15
Like you just said, like you're like we're I'm also insignificant.
35:17
And it's really interesting because everyone who's kind of has a settled mind.
35:22
I'm not sure people get to the second one. But but we need to. Oh.
35:26
Why do you think we don't get there?
35:28
I've had this conversation with many people, this concept of legacy.
35:30
And once you actually believe it, not just say it. Mhm.
35:36
I mean legacy I mean presidents have legacies, I guess.
35:41
Some entertainers have legacies, sports stars have legacies. Business people? No, no.
35:48
They don't have legacies.
35:49
And once you get to that point and comfortable in that point, this whole concept that what's my legacy, which is a jerk-off conversation, you can move past a lot of this stuff. Yeah.
35:58
You mean we we we sitting there, what's my legacy? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
36:01
It's a bad question, I agree. It's a bad question.
36:02
Like that that's why you're doing it? Yeah, I agree. Oh my god, that's crazy. Yeah. It's I Do you know what?
36:08
I think it comes from I think we never get to embrace our own insignificance because we're scared of where it leads to low self-esteem.
36:15
So there's that angle, but the deeper definitely I don't have that.
36:21
But the deeper angle, which is what you're raising, is that I I as humans we're so addicted to immortality because at least from a spiritual point of view our consciousness and energy is immortal and there's such a addiction to immortality and longevity that we have that for us to live after we die we think the only here's my thought process cuz people cuz I mean I am a crazy health nut. Yeah, I know. I do some crazy stuff.
36:43
Yeah, and I'm into it too. So let's do it. really crazy.
36:46
But for me it's not about living forever.
36:49
It's about being healthy while I live. Same. Agreed.
36:55
As long as I am because I see people that are older that are prisoners in their bodies as when they get to their 60s, 70s, 80s. I'm not doing that.
37:05
The best thing that could happen is it's over would be incredible and you die in your sleep. Like it's over.
37:16
But until that point time I'm playing golf, I'm going on hikes, I'm surfing, I'm doing my thing.
37:20
This whole thing about this whole world of um and I hack. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
37:26
myself to do that but it's not for to live forever.
37:29
And so that's the objective. Yes, yeah.
37:32
No, I get that and I and I'm totally aligned with that.
37:34
I feel the same way like I don't think it's What's the craziest thing you do for your health?
37:39
I mean I I I've been recent because I'm still young to say things that people don't recommend yet and so like I've been talking to people about like stem cell treatments and things like that.
37:47
I don't know if you've done any stem cell therapy or anything like that.
37:50
But okay, so I haven't done any of it either but everyone's always like Jay, you're too young to start these these kinds of things right now.
37:54
But I'd say that craziest thing I do right now is same as you like the fasting, the cold plunging, the infrared saunas, the the deep rest and sleep, the meditation has been a part of my life for 17, 18 to push steel. Yeah. Yes, yeah, yeah.
38:07
got you got to do weights.
38:08
to stop that last year for a I I had I had I had surgery so I had to stop but yes, I usually do weights.
38:14
You have to do stuff for your kind of CO2, your oxygen, your ability. How old are you now? 35.
38:19
Yeah, so you're right at the right if you do now, right? the time, yeah.
38:23
You got to reduce as much as you can your inflammation.
38:24
You got to have gut health. Yes, this is exactly it.
38:28
And then you have to figure out how to balance your glucose. Mhm.
38:32
If you can do those things Yep.
38:35
you have 35% chance of getting to the objective of one night you just don't wake up. Yeah, yeah. Right.
38:42
Are you plant-based as well?
38:42
Or you you try to be plant-based or cuz I'm 62. Yeah. Okay? Wow.
38:47
So, I was a lectin-free vegan following Dr.
38:50
Gundry's who got me when I had my thyroid problem really healthy.
38:55
The problem is now cuz I do push a lot of steel, I do do heavy cardio, I do do a lot of this stuff, I have to have some protein in my diet. Mhm.
39:04
So, I have moved up to probably very healthy, you know, grass-fed, grass-finished, no corn in it, all the stuff that cause inflammation.
39:12
I have moved up into probably three or four days of of meat. Mhm.
39:17
And then the rest Got it. lectin-free vegan. Yeah.
39:21
What's the craziest therapy you've done?
39:23
You mentioned earlier there was some different strains Well, I I I do I you know, I take helmets from Thailand and from the UK every morning.
39:31
I do light therapy every morning after the cold plunge.
39:37
I mean, if I if I showed you the list now you'd be like all right, you you you've lost the plot already. No, I love it.
39:44
That's why you look like that.
39:45
what here's what happens though.
39:45
As I go down all these paths, I always call my brother Zeke. Yep.
39:49
And I only have the following question and then he has to do the work and I do work, too.
39:53
I said, "Okay, can it kill me?
39:56
Can it injure me or hurt me?"
39:58
If the answer comes back no, I do it.
40:01
So, I started on They're you know, they're live microbes.
40:05
They're microscopic, can't see them.
40:05
I drink them every morning now.
40:07
I've gotten to a place where I I I do I worked with this guy um from from Duke as I read an article about him.
40:15
And people look like, "What are you doing?"
40:17
they're And I And I say the great line to them.
40:19
I say, "Watch their facial expression."
40:20
I said, "Well, they don't colonize in your system."
40:22
And you know, you You can see them like their minds are And so, this goes to like All right, I'm not I'm just going to try these things as long as it can't hurt me. Um The list is vast. yeah. It's great. No, it's great.
40:37
I I think it's I mean, this is where This is where the world's heading, and I think everyone's looking for solutions and and looking for ways.
40:43
So, I love hearing about it from you, and it's And it's great, and it shows, right?
40:46
I feel like you you seem really vibrant, energetic, and And I think that's the key, right? It's vitality.
40:51
I think Well, but the back is not turned into a mouse that's hunched over. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
40:57
Have you ever seen those? Absolutely.
40:59
That That That That scares me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
41:01
I will do anything not to cuz then it's not You're going to be a prisoner in your body. Yeah.
41:07
Yeah, that's that's a powerful statement.
41:08
That's That's not That's not where you want to be in life. Yeah.
41:10
Talking about athletic bodies, you you talked about what you did with the WWE there.
41:13
I remember when you first got involved with the UFC, yeah, there was a lot of like doubt as to how big it could get.
41:19
I believe there was there was a bit of skepticism.
41:23
How do you How do you When you're making a decision that's big money, big risk, and danger going back to that point, but then everyone else is like, "Oh, it's a lot of risk.
41:32
This is like Don't know if it's going to work out."
41:34
But then you're like, "No, I I know where this is going to go."
41:36
How do you How have you found that confidence there, I I mean, the first thing that I do, I mean, I'm assuming you do it, anybody successful do it, I read a lot. Yeah.
41:45
And I I I ask a lot of questions to Once I read an article, if I understand it, don't understand it, I want I I call the person or I call the person in the article.
41:53
And that happened early on how we started the firm.
41:54
I We know we're in the representation business, and then I said, "We have all this business.
41:59
I want to buy something that we own."
42:00
I thought sports was going someplace that with increased distribution was going to be more valuable.
42:07
And so, it was a like there's not many sports you can own. Mhm.
42:09
I was already in business with the UFC.
42:13
We did all the work about where we could take the economics internationally, sponsorship. It was an easy bet. And it worked out.
42:20
Well, it's worked Well, the the world changed on me at the time for the like Fox sold to Disney, so those two buyers out.
42:29
Donald Trump wouldn't let AT&T buy Time Warner, so those two buyers are out.
42:33
And the rest of the they didn't Nobody else wanted it at the time cuz they already had too much service.
42:37
So, it was nerve-racking for a while.
42:40
Um but then the world changed. Yeah.
42:43
It's fascinating to me because I think that everyone in their micro universe or any universe is always having to make tough decisions that a lot of people around them don't understand.
42:52
Whether someone listening to this right now is trying to start a new health regime, whether someone's trying There's not a a pill. Yeah.
42:58
In anything we do, as we now know, there's not like cuz I don't know about you, people come to me, so what's the one thing? One thing. There is no one thing. I do 17 things.
43:09
Like and it's grown from 10. Yeah.
43:11
Yeah, I don't like being asked the one thing at all. It doesn't work. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely.
43:16
And that's why I'm That's why the questions I'm asking you I'm fascinated by the the the thought process.
43:21
Well, you're you're just you're In our lives, we're just gathering information, gathering thought process, gathering gathering perspectives, and then we go hunting for things that we want to do and where we think the world's going.
43:36
And then once you get to that point like, okay, you talk to a lot of people.
43:42
You have to For me, talk to investors, etc.
43:43
and then you're then you're launched.
43:45
And then there's I think, and I might get this story wrong, Disney when they bought Cap Cities, which had ESPN, they valued ESPN at zero at the time.
43:56
And at the when it came out, it was the most valuable asset. Again, success. Mhm. Right? Who knows? Yeah.
44:03
You know, you can do all the work, you can do and then all of a sudden get into the pool, the water's warm.
44:09
Dude, you got to start swimming. Yeah.
44:11
And that And that's what I think I think there is so much pressure on making the right decision as opposed to making your decision right. Right?
44:19
Like as in you I think a lot of people spend a lot of time going, "Is this the right decision?
44:22
Is this the right thing to invest in?"
44:23
I'm like, "Well, make the decision and then make it right." started.
44:26
How many people can handle change and fear the I mean, you just have to be comfortable in the uncomfortable and Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
44:35
What have you seen You've worked with talent.
44:37
I know you still do in in in some intimate ways.
44:38
I still work with a lot of talent. Okay, you still do. All right.
44:42
I've heard you say before I was like I was like I was thinking there's most of But you're working with the business as well as much as you expect.
44:49
So, when you work with talent, what have you seen has been the because I think it was interesting.
44:54
I was saying when I was young everyone wanted to be an investment banker.
44:56
Now we know in America most people want to be influencers, creators, some something to do with YouTube or What What have you seen have been the best choices that talent have made long-term for their successful careers or what are some of the mistakes people have made?
45:12
most talent now realizes they're the ass and it's kind of moving towards them and and a lot of them are starting to try and figure out like Okay, what does that mean?
45:22
Can I own other businesses? Can I get equity?
45:27
That'd be Ryan Reynolds, Dwayne Johnson, Mark Wahlberg, these people, right?
45:30
And I think that's been at that level.
45:32
We're going to go through a whole iteration right now with AI that is going to I think I I don't know what it's going to do, but it's going to transfer one more time um our business.
45:43
I think in a good way and that I think people are going to have more free time than ever.
45:49
They're going to want movies.
45:50
They're going to want entertainment.
45:51
They're going to need more.
45:51
I think that we're going to go down to a permanent four-day work week.
45:54
Governments are going to need it for full employment and that means the weekend is starting on Thursday night.
46:00
And that means that's three days where people need personal interaction.
46:05
And so the value proposition, especially as distribution changes, you're going to go to 6 Wi-Fi.
46:12
You you're now seeing more distribution, Rumble picking up shows, Roku I mean, it's just expanding and expanding.
46:19
Our job is to create a place where our talent can create really, for the first time, even more exponentially become their own brands and own businesses and do things that they not just the movie, not just the tele- other things and will be successful for them and they'll be successful as long as we can create this kind of part- perfect architecture.
46:39
And we're not perfect at it yet, but we're getting better at it and those are the clients that we want to be in business across podcast all the different things.
46:50
Um, and that's the hardest thing that we're trying to build now in this transition, but that's where I think the world is going. Interesting. 4-day work weeks.
46:56
I think that's that I think I think if it's unofficial.
47:00
I I I I don't know governments, I think because of AI or and I'm saying probably in 2 3 4 years, for full employment and they're going to need it for social non-unrest, you're going to have and you know, you have COVID, that's almost a 4-day work week now cuz people don't go into the office on Fridays.
47:19
That means Thursday night, what are you doing? Yeah, yeah.
47:22
Well, I'm in the entertainment that that's the that's the objective.
47:27
And that's so that's what we've been building like events, Madrid Open, Barrett-Jackson, art show, etc.
47:35
And that's where I think the world's going, sporting events, etc.
47:36
So, I think entertainment's going to become more valuable than it's ever become.
47:39
I don't think it's as will be as disrupted by AI.
47:45
Um, there'll be some disruption in it.
47:47
Yeah, it's it's incredible to think about that because yeah, I think people are really looking for more alternatives and options, especially for that human connection point you were talking about.
47:56
How have you found it as a leader to have that where you've gone from everyone being in an office in an agency to then people working from home?
48:03
Like, how have you navigated that to continue that like Well, listen, we have, you know, we've we we had done this a long time ago. We had just restarted.
48:10
We did a we did a a a a book club not the way we used to do with on with Rick Rubin on his new book.
48:17
We do we had a lecture on anti-Semitism.
48:20
We're trying to get people in groups talking about big issues to kind of keep the company together from, you know, we're in I don't know, 37 countries.
48:30
So, that people get to There's a communal and they We're going to start a big retreat again, which we hadn't done in a lot of years cuz of COVID.
48:37
So, that's the way we foresee doing that. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
48:41
Yeah, and and I think that that's That just keeps hopefully Yeah.
48:45
and we just have to keep on working on how we keep that connection um ongoing in the company. Yeah.
48:50
You know, cuz you do want if you the architecture's right, you do want the licensing group talking to the motion picture group talking to the online on location group to create an experience and you want all those pieces and and the outside world and the clients is asking for it, too.
49:06
So, that's where we have to Yeah, I worked with so many organizations before and during mainly the pandemic and then even after and the transitions I've seen are incredible because whether a company was growing rapidly, so I was working with Zoom.
49:21
They were having the best success as a company financially, but it was like they had to scale like what was a small organization really quickly.
49:28
And so, like the burnout that comes with that is really really hard.
49:32
And then you had other organizations obviously like travel, entertainment, live entertainment down down struggling with that and handling morale.
49:39
And so, it's really interesting to see how they both bounced back because it was hard either way and it's really You always think, "Oh, they're successful. They don't It's hard.
49:47
Success is you it's hard for them, though. Yeah, of course it is. Of course it is.
49:49
It's it's so complicated and It's really complicated now.
49:54
Success is hard and failure is hard.
49:55
Running a business I don't any one of them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Brutal. Yeah.
50:00
What What have been some of your What What What would you say in the last few years has been one of like your biggest misses or your biggest failures that uh you look back and go, "That taught me a lot."
50:10
Well, I'll say I'll say the following cuz it was a success.
50:15
And it was only success because I thought we had a like shut everything down.
50:18
And Dana White at the OC said to me, "Uh-uh, we're not shutting down."
50:22
I got scared and he like slammed me across the face and I'm like, "We're going."
50:26
And then he said, "Give me an island."
50:29
And you know, I was like, you know, my brother's a doctor.
50:31
He's telling me where the world's going.
50:32
I'm like And he was like, "Mm-mm.
50:34
We're And he was just driving that train."
50:37
And so we got him an island and he did everything else and and um you know, it kind of just reminded me like yeah, it's it's it's nerve-racking but don't be scared. Yeah. And he was like amazing. Yeah.
50:51
And I was like on the other side of that fence.
50:54
And I said, you know, and that's why you have a great partner.
50:56
He's an incredible partner. Yeah.
50:57
But I I for the first time got really scared. Mm.
51:00
And he just said, "No, you we just have to go.
51:02
And we're going to take all the heat for it."
51:05
And there was a lot of heat against him and but we did it.
51:07
If we didn't have that, the whole company would have been tanked. Mm.
51:11
Because we needed the ESPN deal to continue to go.
51:14
We needed to put on fights.
51:17
And his his courage like dragging me along was incredible.
51:20
The industry today I feel like cancel culture, heat co- like it's got it's got hotter basically because there's more people to cancel, there's more things that people are sensitive or care about or believe in and values like How do How do you as a talent agent think about artists going through that?
51:37
Because I'm sure you've seen over the years just So I coach a lot of people in the music business, actors, like sports people.
51:41
I coach so many people in the industry Don't jump in the water.
51:46
Cuz most people want to respond. Mhm.
51:49
The news cycle is so fast.
51:52
Unless you've committed murder and something, whatever, let it go. Mhm.
51:58
The thought process is I got to jump and respond.
52:01
Then it's just the story just continues.
52:03
The news cycle, I used to say it's like 1 day.
52:07
It It's less than a half a day now.
52:09
And if you just get out of this emotional mindset that you have to respond and you have to No. Really?
52:16
Nobody's going to Like, it's over. Don't respond.
52:20
And that's kind of, I think, the hardest thing for any artist. Yeah.
52:22
How have you How have you worked with Because I'm guessing you you almost by job have to become a coach sometimes to the people you work with?
52:32
is my This is my This is my line though.
52:33
Like, why are you responding? Yeah. Don't.
52:35
Like, they want you to respond cuz then they keep on getting the click. Yeah.
52:38
Thank god I'm not on social media. Yeah. I won't do it. I won't.
52:43
I mean, I get it, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
52:45
Sometimes my kids send it to me. Yeah, yeah. My wife sends it to me. I don't look at it.
52:48
What What's something that you're trying to immerse into your children?
52:53
Like, I mean, you were just Your son was just calling you. You were just talking.
52:56
Like, what's what's something that you feel you really want them to know and learn at the stages they are in their life?
53:04
I just hope I think they get it. It was so funny.
53:06
My My youngest son is now training.
53:10
He goes to Michigan and he's working up at Apple right now at Apple Maps.
53:13
And he's decided comes out of his He's going into his junior.
53:15
He's train- He's training for a triathlon. I'm a junior.
53:19
What I loved about him is he did the work.
53:22
And what I mean by did the work and it was like shocking hearing I was just such a proud father.
53:27
He talked about how you run better and how the people in Kenya run better cuz they're on their toes and he done all of this all this research about it and started doing it.
53:33
First 3 weeks was brutal on his legs, but he's gotten faster.
53:38
On the bike, yeah, you have have to do it on of the box that here's what and I ride and do epoxy training and all this stuff.
53:46
And I said, you're right, it does.
53:49
And he has not stopped training.
53:52
You know, he's 21 years old and you know, I remember how I was at 21 years old.
53:57
I wouldn't have been doing that.
53:59
But his work about how to get better.
54:02
He swam double the length this time. He's got a month left.
54:04
And just the amount of work he's put into it.
54:06
The thought process behind it, the research he did.
54:10
I'm like, I mean, I you couldn't be prouder.
54:13
And all of them I just try and teach them one thing.
54:17
You got to work hard and you got to show up.
54:20
The results you're not going to control.
54:23
If you do those things and there's many other things that we all can on the list.
54:26
But those are kind of it.
54:29
You work really hard, you show up.
54:32
Outcomes you can't control. That's what you want. Good advice. I love that.
54:35
It's all right, it's been such a joy talking to you today. You're right.
54:40
you've been such a like it's been such a treat just like I feel like we've been playing tennis or pickleball.
54:46
Who's so I got I just wanted to say I'll try to yeah.
54:49
And it's I was going to say I need a pair of those.
54:52
I will just send you I want those.
54:53
You'll send me your shoe size and everything.
54:55
Yeah, I want one of those too.
54:55
And you have to wear it on the podcast so she gets a little she gets a little bit of kind of love from you. I those are awesome. Yeah.
55:02
And I love I love your balance too.
55:04
So that's a great They're multiple colors.
55:06
Okay, I'm going to We actually have these in in in shoes too now.
55:07
She's got And well, I'll send them all to you.
55:11
Yeah, I want I want it all. They look great. They look great.
55:12
It looks It looks great on you too.
55:15
Thank you for doing this. I will.
55:15
But we end every show with a final five.
55:16
These have to be answered in one word or one sentence maximum. So it's super tight. It's the fast five.
55:21
I better I better sit up for this.
55:24
Yes, Ari, these are your final five.
55:24
The first question is what is the best advice you've ever heard or received?
55:29
Know when you're on the field.
55:29
The second question is what is the worst advice you've ever heard or received?
55:32
I don't know if it was advice, but why would you do that? Mhm. Interesting. Interesting.
55:38
Uh third question, what's something that you're trying to unlearn? Being angry. That sounds hard. It's hard. How hard is it?
55:45
Let's Let's talk about that for a second. You know what?
55:49
I'll tell you what it is.
55:49
It's you know, I know when it pops up like all sudden when somebody used to call me stupid in school, it was game on.
55:55
And that thesis where somebody treats me as if I'm not smart or they're trying to pull something on me, I just I just go to a very dark, sick place.
56:12
And I've worked very hard now not to go there, to handle it differently.
56:19
Not that I'm not going to be like, "Huh? What? You think I'm stupid?"
56:21
Like by doing that, you're you're acting as if I don't know what's going on here.
56:29
And so um and they're pulling one over me and they and for whatever reason, the minute I feel like somebody's trying to Yeah, take advantage of you. Yeah, yeah, I get that.
56:39
And so that is a lot of work. Mhm. That is a constant work.
56:42
And when I feel it coming on, okay, that's your shadow.
56:46
Whatever the phrase is, that's your you know, that's the work I have to do.
56:51
And I don't always do it.
56:51
Especially those childhood ones. Mhm.
56:53
And so no, but when somebody in business does that to me recently, I kind of like I went to the bad place.
57:00
I couldn't control it and that that I'm that that's what I'm trying to work on. Yeah.
57:05
What's been helping you work on that?
57:06
It's just kind of like recognizing it.
57:07
Once I recognize it, Yeah.
57:09
I can breathe through it and I can get to the other side of it. Mhm.
57:11
But in the moment sometimes Yeah, thanks for sharing that.
57:16
I I feel like I feel like for me as well, I feel like your partners and your family often see the worst of you. Ugh, god.
57:23
And I always look at that almost like how what does my wife see?
57:24
And the problem is you do things that are so not smart. Yeah.
57:27
And it's you know, it's it's just not good. Yeah.
57:33
Then you regret it afterwards.
57:35
I'm not sure I regret it, but it's just like, really? You had to do that?
57:36
You're 62, you had to do that? You had to say that?
57:40
You had to like make calls and try and kill you No, I'm not doing that. Yeah.
57:44
All right, two more questions.
57:44
The fourth question is uh what's something that you used to value that you don't longer no longer value?
57:51
Well, I I I I thought it was about the stack. Mhm. Mhm.
57:53
Now, maybe somebody's going to say, he's got the stack now. Yeah, yeah.
57:58
But I never had I didn't have the stack at the beginning, and I didn't I mean, I don't I I that was never the end game.
58:05
What is the end game now?
58:05
I am really happily married. I love my kids. They're in great shape.
58:10
Um I'm comfortable in who I am.
58:17
I'm I'm I'm happy that I have to constantly work at it now, and I'm actually in a good place to work at.
58:20
I understand the work I have to do, which makes it even better.
58:26
All right, fifth and final question.
58:26
We ask this to every guest who's ever been on the show.
58:29
are longer than one sentence.
58:29
I know, because because you keep giving good answers.
58:32
You keep giving good answers. I can't help it.
58:34
You gave a really interesting answer.
58:36
I was like, if I don't dive into this, my audience is going to get mad at me.
58:41
They're going to be like, Jay, why didn't you I listen to my my This is what they're saying in the comments that you listen to your voice.
58:46
they're they're telling me they're like, Jay, he just told you like something amazing.
58:49
Why didn't you Uh fifth and final question.
58:50
If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?
58:54
Could be anything about any any type of law. Don't be hypocritical.
58:58
If your whole thing is stay out of my life, okay, stay out of my life on guns, stay out of my life on COVID, just stay consistent.
59:05
And that's the hardest thing because there's the shade of gray, right?
59:09
I just want consistency without like the issue of money. Mhm.
59:15
The affirmative action issue is, you know, oh, it's sports and and legacy people or family, you know, kind of heritage that got into the school.
59:23
Well, that's about money.
59:23
Like, oh, yeah, the sports make them money, and the the people that went there and their kids that they give a lot of money.
59:29
Like, okay, we all get it.
59:29
Like, just stay consistent with when we decide to pass a law.
59:35
Like, that it is then across the board and the money doesn't get into and all those other things.
59:39
That that's the thing I just look at these I just look at these things I'm like the hypocrisy of of of and I'm I'm hypocritical. All of us. I'm hypocritical. I understand it.
59:49
I wish that we could figure out a law of that consistency, whatever we decide, so that it's like, okay, if if if if really what you're saying here and we take it out across all these other issues, here's what it would mean.
1:00:02
And so that everybody gets I don't know what that law would be.
1:00:06
No, the essence of the answer is great.
1:00:08
I I love the idea of being consistent and removing hypocrisy and and the challenge is we And money.
1:00:13
Yeah, and we all have it.
1:00:15
Like, we all like we'll fight to death for this thing and then but actually you don't please don't say all my hypocritical things that I have done on there. Right. So. We all have, yeah.
1:00:26
Well, thank you very much.
1:00:26
All right, thank you so much. Thank you, I'm glad.
1:00:29
And I love so I'm going to send you these. I better get a case.
1:00:33
we're going to send you a whole case. Thank you, Ari.
1:00:34
If you loved this episode, you'll love my interview with Dr.
1:00:38
Gabor Maté on understanding your trauma and how to heal emotional wounds to start moving on from the past.
1:00:46
Everything in nature grows only where it's vulnerable.
1:00:47
So, a tree doesn't grow where it's hard and thick, does it?
1:00:50
It goes where it's soft and green and vulnerable.