0:00
Welcome back, my guy. Welcome back. Welcome back. Welcome back. They're all real ones.
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0:03
It's hard to say, you know, and mean it that someone comes back with an album of 14 songs.
0:09
Every one of them could be a standalone song.
0:11
Just represent a theme on its own terms. Yeah.
0:17
And be so cohesive and so tasteful. Beautiful music. Thank you. That's my take. Thank you. Beautiful music.
0:29
And I'm curious to see which ones end up getting picked because it's like you could we could pick our favorites.
0:33
I'm really good at picking singles though.
0:37
It's like you know most artists are not.
0:37
It's amazing you've got that skill and I think it's just like you could just I don't know how to even articulate it.
0:45
It's just more of a feeling and just a gravity to the song.
0:49
But this album was one of the hardest to pick a song. Yeah. Yeah. Because it was everyone. Well, it's thematic.
0:54
It's definitely thematic.
0:57
I mean, you know, you've just, you know, you're 30 and leaving a decade behind of discovery and adult identity forming and all that sort of stuff.
1:03
And so, you know, you're definitely you're definitely putting a ribbon on that.
1:05
Um, and you've created a sonic template, a canvas and brought a very obviously a very core crew of people who understand the vision together and there's a cohesion as a as a fan of this album, as a listen as a listener. Yeah.
1:24
It's a spell you don't want to break.
1:26
You know, picking singles is a by its very design, it breaks a spell.
1:31
And it's a it's like out of it could be out of context, too, because it's like to me, picking a single is like taking a clip from a movie and then trying to It's a trailer. Yeah. Yeah.
1:42
So, it's it's actually a trailer. Yeah. But I'm a movie artist.
1:45
I'm not really a trailer artist.
1:48
It's working for you, man. And you know what?
1:50
Movies take time and so did this album. Yeah.
1:52
Not going to say we didn't miss you, but equally I think you probably I'd imagine you returned with a sense of confidence that people gave you space and gave you the grace to make something great and welcome you back with open arms, which I know for a lot of people in the creative arts, especially in a time that moves very fast, time away can cause anxiety for the artist. Yeah.
2:10
And I don't even know if they I mean, yeah, they gave it to me, but it was also there was a lot of inquiries while I was gone. like where are you? Where are you? Where are you? Where are you?
2:24
So, I'm just like I think it takes courage and just a knowing because I I just I really just know what artist I am. I understand my process.
2:34
I understand how to evolve as well.
2:38
I don't I never really want to be the artist that just keep telling the same story over and over. Yeah.
2:45
Because you're a storyteller and you've told that one.
2:47
It's you know 2022 you released an album that told a different story looking back on that person now. Yeah. Where's the growth?
2:59
I think I grew as an artist exponentially like there's a leap and in my knowing how to articulate what I have a feel or what I have a taste for.
3:18
For example, I I can speak to moods more.
3:20
I can speak to sound sonics more.
3:24
I can speak to colors more.
3:26
Before it was just raw talent.
3:28
I was just going strictly off of just my voice or my ability to song right.
3:36
But now it's just all of that added to everything else that I've added to my bag.
3:41
Like this is my best vocal delivery on an album.
3:44
Not just because of the the keys or the pitches are different.
3:49
It's just more it's more of a a performance.
3:53
Well, you're a director now. Yeah.
3:55
So, you're acting in your own movie, so you understand that you don't have to outact everybody else on the cast when you're directing the film, right?
4:00
Sometimes you've got to be the supporting actor of of your own role.
4:03
And and I and I mean that very deliberately.
4:06
I don't feel like you're dominating at times on this album at all the right times.
4:09
I feel like you allow the music to to to stand beside you.
4:12
And you know, it's a lot of times when you have music this this beautiful and arrangements this this thorough and gorgeous, it's like a I'm ready.
4:21
I'm going to I'm going to dominate and you don't.
4:23
There's a lot of respect I think you've put into this album as a performer.
4:28
I've shared a song with some amazing music of mine, but this was one of the first times where the music was almost the standout as well.
4:36
So, it was like, okay, it's like a feature at this point. Yeah.
4:42
Well, that's that's again just another sign of confidence as a fan of you.
4:45
It's a sign of confidence that you're willing to allow music to reach that high because you know you know you can stand stand on top of that mountain as well.
4:52
It's it is it is amazing and and for people who are listening and watching um this and haven't had a chance uh or haven't given the album a try.
4:59
Um you know I I'm I'm a passionate music fan and I love to I love to talk about what I love but uh I I make absolutely no apology for this description.
5:09
And it is one of the most tasteful sounding albums and it's come from the modern lexicon in a long time.
5:14
It's phenomenal what you've achieved as an arranger. That's a big thing.
5:18
Like just like cuz I also was this is the album I was I've always wanted to make but I didn't have the skills yet. Yeah. It's so funny.
5:26
You've got to catch up to yourself. Yeah. I had to catch up. There was a big gap.
5:30
And then I would go back and just study and be like there the way they arranged this is just phenomenal. What did you study? What did you listen to?
5:40
Everything that Gamble and Huff put their finger on.
5:42
So the Philadelphia7s soul sound cuz I'm from the west coast. I'm from Long Beach.
5:48
I realized that like oh my mom was listening to a lot of black American soul from the east coast even though we're from the west coast.
5:58
So I was just like oh wow.
5:58
cuz I would go back and listen and Teddy P was just like at the top of the hierarchy of everything.
6:05
So then I would go and listen to Teddy P more and I'm just like he he's almost just like there was some moments where he was he was just shouting like and his his vocal was more it was a it was an energy to it instead of him hitting a bunch of runs and trying to make the song sound or the vocal sound good.
6:30
It just sound raw and honest and I so then I was like, "Oh, wait.
6:33
I'm throwing that trying to sound good.
6:35
I'm throwing that out the window." Yeah. Where's the feeling? Yeah.
6:39
It's just It's just a feeling.
6:39
So even when I cut a take, I'm listening for emotion instead of Yeah.
6:44
You're trying to capture it. It's like it's there.
6:47
You're just trying to get it.
6:49
That's why that's why when I speak to artists who take a long time to get something done, I don't see it necessarily as a OCD perfectionist streak.
7:03
I see it as a desire to capture something that is fleeting, right?
7:10
It's like that raw cuz you can't do it again.
7:12
It's there and then it's gone.
7:15
And when you get it, it's there now and it's there. Mhm.
7:18
Oh, and I have to give credit to um like a legendary vocal producer, Curel.
7:26
I did one one or two sessions with him and then the the takes where I thought weren't it, he's like, "No, that's it." Okay.
7:33
Can we get a little more granular with that?
7:35
I'd love to get inside that experience.
7:37
Um because I love your vocal performances on this. Mhm.
7:40
So, let's just elaborate on that experience a little bit more and and go a bit deeper into into the feedback you got from this vocal vocal coach.
7:49
So, I would sing and I would try to sound super in key and proper and almost just perfect and then he'll be like, "Let's do it again."
8:00
And then he'll direct me and be like whatever whatever the line was, he'll direct me and say, "Try to be there."
8:05
So then I'll do it again and I'm like, "Oh, that kind of sounds like there was a crack there.
8:13
There was a a note was missed there.
8:16
There was a He's like, "No, that's it." And I'm like, "Oh, wow."
8:21
Did you ask him what he gets from that experience that you had been missing when he hears the crack?
8:29
I don't even I don't you know the he was such a like visual reactor that I didn't even have to ask him.
8:37
I could just see the way he Yeah.
8:39
Like he would be like, "Oh yeah, that's it." And I'm like, "Oh, wow." Yeah.
8:43
Cuz I I really think that when people spend a lot of time around and then subsequently within music Mhm.
8:51
So it's more than just an accompaniment. It becomes an obsession. Yeah.
8:56
It's you realize like there's so much depth Mhm.
9:02
And so much humanity going on in in the in those performances that that Exactly. Yeah.
9:10
And so you're searching for the human story more than the performance or or the or the perfection, you know? Yeah.
9:16
And it's just it just changed my whole perspective on everything music.
9:21
It's like the outcome is just like the cherry on top.
9:24
But like the ability to just get that raw emotion out, that's a that's a privilege.
9:29
Some people don't have a craft or a medium where they could just exercise that emotion.
9:33
Like now I it it affected the whole my whole approach to emotions in general because I don't I don't stray away from certain emotions.
9:43
I'm just like, "Okay, now that I feel this, I know there's a song or something at some point I'm going to be able to use this to tap into cuz now I'm visualizing something that made me frustrated, anxious, sad because I'm going to need that at some point."
9:57
M which means you have to identify it in the moment too. Mhm.
10:01
It means when you're feeling something I'm like, "Okay, y that's what this is." Oh, that's rejection. I hate rejection. Hate it.
10:08
But now it's just like it's just like an emotional wardrobe.
10:12
So it's like I don't I don't want to wear it now.
10:14
I guess unfortunately I'm forced to wear this jacket, but I'm going to be able to wear that jacket to perform.
10:22
It's good to see you, man.
10:22
I always love talking about your music with you, man.
10:26
You have such an innate understanding of it. And you you're right.
10:27
You're so much further down the road as a as an artist than you were even when we spoke 3 years ago. Yeah.
10:32
There's a there's a leap.
10:32
There's a I mean I think I already knew it was it's just I didn't think it could get better or more elevated because I was just like, "Oh, these songs are already good, but it's the nuance and it's like the the the details, the 1% here. I could perform better.
10:49
I could I could just be be more honest."
10:53
Again, getting back to the musical accompaniment here, the arrangements and the and the musicality of this record, it allows you the space to be imperfect because the music around you is just it's it's it's flawless, man.
11:06
When it's all live, it's it was it was all jam sessions and then once we caught a groove, we're like, that's the groove.
11:13
What room exists in this day and age where people making music on their headphones or in their bedrooms where it sounds like that?
11:18
I did a bulk of this album in um West Lake, the one built for Michael, and they got like a crazy room. That makes sense. Yeah.
11:28
And it was I mean, Michael's probably in there with us some some of that's fine.
11:33
I feel that when I go into studios, I think that they 100% retain this the spirit of whoever has truly touched them or created magic in them.
11:41
There's that element where I'm doing this because it's in my DNA.
11:43
I don't I I didn't choose music.
11:46
I tell people all the time, I didn't choose it. It chose me.
11:51
But I'm also just a I really care about rhythm and blues.
11:59
Like it means a lot to me.
11:59
So I also want to make sure I'm pushing it at the same time.
12:04
Making sure we don't move away from analog too far because digital is is important, but you're going to miss you're going to start to miss soul.
12:14
black American soul music, it gets disrespected a lot.
12:18
And I say disrespect because it doesn't get its credit for what the influence has had on other genres or other other forms of music.
12:29
Even no, anything rhythm and blues, there's a specific space and soul that's not talked about enough.
12:40
Like Teddy P is not talked about enough. I agree.
12:43
It's almost like a If you talk to people about that term rhythm and blues, I think people automatically assume it's like throwback or something you should listen to that, you know, relates to a different time.
12:57
And it's like, wait, hang on, that's R&B.
13:00
How does that not sound amazing today?
13:02
Like, you know, how how are those themes not as relevant, if not more today than even they were when they were first captured? And exactly.
13:10
You know, I think about sometimes I'll put on like Hot Buttered Soul or something, you know, and I'm like the like who makes this and the space.
13:18
That's something that this album reminded me a little bit of.
13:22
You talk about the raw passion of Teddy P, but you also talk about I talk about the space.
13:28
I I joked before we walked in here about how to give me three years to make an album that has a lot of space.
13:34
Three years normally I'd be be like, "Oh my god, the whole kitchen sink is on this thing."
13:37
But it's like there's so much space that's allowing all of the instrumentation and all the music and your vocals and your messages and your stories to exist and really have everyone's got a moment.
13:48
Everything's got a moment on this record.
13:49
And I feel like you Isaac Hayes would do that.
13:52
You know, he would let something the groove just let it ride for like five minutes before he'd even get on it.
13:59
You know, that come that's growth too.
14:00
knowing what to to trim because sometimes if you're filling up a space is that's also just a sign of insecurity I think as well.
14:10
Well, it's also a sign of of of speed when you come off a tour and you've played festivals and you've caught people's attention, held their attention, and then you go on the internet or not, but probably do, and you see what people say, and it's all fast, fast, fast, fast, fast.
14:24
You're like, I've got to keep people's attention.
14:28
And I think one of the things that we've forgotten as human beings in this in this speed age is that actually you don't have to rush.
14:37
You don't have to like get in front of everything just to hold people's attention. It just has to be great.
14:43
I feel like emotional connection trumps like speed and attention every time.
14:49
Cuz the moment you come back, it's like if if you song right, if you know how to write music and write a song that's going to touch one person, you you're going to win forever cuz that one person is going to tell everyone they know.
15:02
I'm I'm just like a I think word of mouth will always be the best form of anything to where you get moved so much.
15:10
Like I remember I'm a I'm a big UFC fan and I just watched a fight this past weekend. Anyone see that coming? No. No.
15:20
Well, I used to wrestle for 5 years. Anyone see that coming? All right, cool. We're two for two.
15:25
So, like my favorite fighter, like his name is Ilia Taporier.
15:28
He just knocked out a fan favorite. Yeah.
15:33
I'm literally, me personally, I'm sending every update or anything from that to everybody I know who don't care.
15:40
My mom is like, "Who is this man?" It touches me. It doesn't matter. P.
15:44
You're passionate about it. It's not. It touches me.
15:47
You're describing my life.
15:47
I've spent my whole life shelling about music that cuz I'm so passionate about it.
15:51
And some people like some of that stuff and some people don't.
15:54
Those people don't like other stuff.
15:55
And my thing is it doesn't matter to me.
15:57
I'm passionate about and you you're going to be the one to tell people and there's no there's no tricks or tips or anything that someone could do to try to emulate that.
16:07
That's why I show up for work every day to do a live radio show, bro.
16:08
You know, the whole world is going on demand as and when you think it's not easy to sit in your backyard with a couple of microphones, capture a podcast for a couple hours and chuck it up 3 days later.
16:16
That's a that is a busman's holiday compared to coming in and actually doing live radio and producing it.
16:21
We do it because I want to get the feeling that somewhere in the world right now, someone's day has changed and they're going to take that song and it's going to change them and their friend's day. Just one person. One person.
16:32
I've never done any tricks or any I've never even remixed a song. Yeah.
16:38
So, because I'm like, this is the story. This is the song.
16:40
If it's going to move you, it's going to move you. Okay.
16:43
Let me ask you this question then because you you are successful and you're building a really wonderful life for yourself doing it your way and I know that you do have a relationship with your fans in the sense that there is some form of discourse.
16:55
You do hear what they have to say.
16:57
So at this point with Beloved, your new album and where you are as an artist, what have you learned is most important to your fans in terms of what you have to offer?
17:08
What do they get from it?
17:10
apart from great music because obviously that's a given.
17:13
Um, why do they ride with you when you do it your way and you don't play the game?
17:18
I think it's the songwriting when it when it evokes an emotion that like I said, some people don't have the ability to exercise that.
17:26
But if you listen to something that makes you feel that exact way, I think you find comfort in knowing that someone else feels that emotion.
17:37
Cuz that's the thing about emotions.
17:38
Sometimes if you're the only one that if you believe you're the only one feeling that emotion, that could create loneliness.
17:46
So I think knowing that my stories are autobiographical and that my life is flawed is extremely comforting to to someone else who's probably dealing with something, especially in this social media age where everyone just posted shows their peaks and not their valleys.
18:05
I've been watching Like I've been watching film and television more and I'm like this is more realistic than social media because it it shows the the eb and flow of life. Mhm. Again, it's about time.
18:17
I'm pretty obsessed with time right now.
18:19
I'm pretty obsessed with the obsession that people have over using it way too time. Yeah.
18:24
And and I think speed is a misuse of time most of the time. Yeah.
18:30
And I think like when I move when I everything I do slow turns out better.
18:35
See that's one of the things I think that well I can speak from experience.
18:37
why I appreciate you as an artist so much is that you, you know, you don't mind giving us an album that's like, "Yeah, I'm a hot mess, but you never look like a hot mess."
18:52
So, which is which is in line with the people you talked about that your mom listened to who was growing up who was like, "Yeah, stuff is really shitty out here. I'm having a tough time.
18:59
Community is having a tough time.
19:01
We're being mistreated, misunderstood, misheard, not heard at all, and my relationship's a mess, and I'm struggling to just get through the day.
19:11
Man, I look so good, buttoned up, tailored, right? Yeah.
19:19
Manifest the the life you want while you're telling the truth.
19:22
I don't like people who make it seem like everything is good.
19:24
I really don't like that cuz you're affecting someone.
19:28
Someone's watching your life. Yeah.
19:29
They don't feel good enough, right? Yeah.
19:31
They're like someone's going to feel insecure.
19:35
They're going to feel FOMO.
19:37
They're going to feel something.
19:37
Even though I guess technically that's not your responsibility, but it's just like But isn't that Yeah, but then then we're getting into really kind of sketchy ground because I mean, we can sher all responsibility if we go granular enough.
19:50
At the end of the day, right, I'd much prefer a world that's actually takes a bigger step back and goes, "Hang on, it may not be my responsibility, but what if I made it a little bit of my responsibility?
19:57
Would the world be better if I just took a little more?
19:58
If I was thoughtful with my thoughtfulness rather than just being thoughtful, would that make life a little bit better?
20:05
It starts with me saying it on the mic.
20:07
Then life is eb and flow and that's what art is.
20:12
So the the the art is in the flaws.
20:12
And it's also just goes back to people not understanding the genre sometimes too because I get this question about like love songs and heartbreak songs and and I'm like what's the question that you get? What's wrong with you? Who bro? Who hurt you? Who hurt you?
20:35
I'm like do y'all know what blues is? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
20:39
You know what rhythm and blues is? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
20:41
You're on page three of a life handbook with this album right here.
20:44
It's not even like, you know, it's not even like in the in the small print.
20:47
It's like this is a chapter.
20:49
Like this is what this is.
20:51
This is actually how relationships are, though.
20:54
It's like, but it's also moments.
20:54
It's sometimes it feels like this, sometimes it feels like this.
20:59
Sometimes it feels like this.
21:00
Sometimes it feels like this. This is just real.
21:04
So why does it feel like mud at the beginning?
21:05
I don't have my name dragged through the mud by probably a couple exes, but I think it's just like it started there because I like the idea of a when a movie starts at like a a crazy part and then it's like, hey, let's go back. This is me.
21:22
Let me tell you how I got here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
21:24
And then it ends on a high note.
21:24
So, also just some of these songs are just a temporary feeling that you're having that you're just expressing.
21:30
Now, someone's going to hear it and be like, "Yeah, exact.
21:33
That's what I wanted to say.
21:35
like like 20 so many like it wasn't even about me everything the moment I play that song for people they probably think about the song for the first 30 seconds then they start thinking about what they spent their 20s on I you know what I the thing that it's so
21:50
childish but one of the things I love the most about 20s is the is the double onandra of it it's one of my it's one of my favorite things about it is it's like yeah I spent a decade but I've also spent so much money on this Mhm. Mh. Mh.
22:05
And I love that about that song is it's just it's such a cool unique concept.
22:10
I've never heard it and I'm a lot of music. Yeah. Yeah. Double ant.
22:13
I I remember when I first learned the word double antandra.
22:17
I was on I was in like high school looking up Jay-Z lyrics.
22:23
He was He has so many double antandras. Yeah.
22:26
Oh, that's that's when you got to turn to them and be like, "Were you expecting that?"
22:30
Well, I mean, being a music fan and a modern music fan.
22:33
I think we both expect us to be fans of that to some degree.
22:37
And I think this is where I'm starting to show my maturity a little bit.
22:38
I'm not even talking about age.
22:39
I'm talking more about the fact that I've been through a lot of different eras as a music fan, watching artists go toe-to-toe toe, and not even just in rap music, like across the board in lots of different styles and genres, right?
22:51
I'm just looking for someone else now.
22:52
And so, and so I can I dive I dive into it for a while and I it's titillating.
22:56
It's exciting and it's it's vibrant, but it's energy.
22:58
Yeah, face to face on stage. That whole dynamic.
23:02
Yeah, it can be it can be incredible.
23:03
But um then I would need to go back and listen to Beloved and Yeah, it's like you need a pallet like a pallet cleanser like a but that's how I am too.
23:13
My my playlist is is it's all around the it's all over the place like that.
23:18
You make a lot of playlists. Yeah.
23:20
Well, I I like I I like them. So then I I go to it. You know what I mean?
23:25
But I have one that's called um songs I wish I made. Ah, okay. We're going in on this. All right. All right.
23:34
What's number What's the first song on that playlist?
23:37
Uh Heatwave, Always and Forever. Huge.
23:40
And number two is Love TKO. Teddy. Yeah. Three.
23:43
I don't know what three was.
23:43
I think it was probably It was Roberto Fleck and Donnie Hathaway. So I get to you. Any manchild on there? That song, man. Right.
23:58
I'm still adding though because sometimes I'm not thinking about them and I just come across like I'm driving my mom plays something and I'm like you know last time Good Stink face.
24:05
Last time we spoke uh we had a really wonderful conversation about um the family dynamic and it was really moving and and so it seems only appropriate given that you've made an album so directly influenced by the subversive nature of music as a child.
24:20
you know what gets inside you changes your DNA, your chemistry.
24:24
All of a sudden you're just a different person.
24:25
You don't realize it till you turn, you know, 27 and you're making this album like, "Holy shit."
24:30
Like, "Wow, this was in me already."
24:32
But your mom always knew it was.
24:32
And so, so I really want to I really want to want you to try and set the scene for for the first time.
24:37
You really introduced this body of work to your mom, knowing full well that an enormous amount of her taste is wrapped up in this.
24:44
My mom hasn't heard it after the She does this weird thing.
24:50
She's I'll try to She don't want to hear it until it drops.
24:54
I think that's actually really special cuz number one, I think that she gets to It's an energy decision.
24:59
I think like, okay, I'm hearing it with everybody else. I'm not in a vacuum. Mhm.
25:05
And number two, as a parent, I can tell you that you don't want to jinx it.
25:11
Like, you want it to be real. Mhm. Before you enjoy it.
25:14
I tell you one thing though, she going to be disappointed in in one thing and one thing only cuz when I surprised her with the other ones. Yeah.
25:24
She was like, "Is that my voice?"
25:27
I'm like, "Yeah, that's you."
25:27
Second project, "Is that my voice?" "Yeah, that's you. You're not on this one.
25:33
You broke her heart, man. You're not on this one. Broke her heart, man.
25:36
She going to be devastated.
25:36
She need to play guitar or drums or something.
25:37
You got to earn your way on here now." Wow. All right.
25:42
I would have thought the uh the whole 9 months of giving birth and everything would have been a life a lifetime of earning that. But that's cool.
25:48
You've obviously got a real high bar.
25:50
You got real high bar here.
25:51
I already know what she going to say.
25:52
She going to be like, "I made you so I made the album." She's coming.
25:55
She's giving you a pass on that. Yeah.
25:57
She she she going to That's in her left pocket.
25:59
You know what's in her right pocket? A whole other pass.
26:03
She's going to pull that other pass. She's mad at you.
26:06
She didn't even put me on the album.
26:07
I asked her the other day, too.
26:07
I was like, "Where do you get all these songs from?
26:11
And I didn't know, she was like, "Your your grandma and your grandpa."
26:16
And I was like, "I didn't know I cuz I was never at their house listening to their playlist."
26:19
And I was like, "Wow, that's crazy."
26:22
I was like, "Do y'all still have those records?" And she was like, "No."
26:25
I'm like, cuz my record collection like it's kind of like skimpy. Mine's deep.
26:31
But the thing that I regret is that a lot of mine aren't arenalss anymore.
26:34
So, you know, if I think about all the records I've lost in my travels along the way, original pressings and that it is a different thing.
26:42
Original like you What you mean by first pressings? First pressing.
26:45
So, the ones that came out, not a re-release, right?
26:48
And like I'm all for like not all I'm majority for pressing vinyl.
26:55
I think I'm also I'm all for these alternative methods of trying to create vinyl that aren't quite so heavy on the on the on the economy of climate.
27:01
That being said, I do have a pretty large record collection, but a lot of them are re-releases and reissues and stuff, and it just doesn't doesn't sound the same. I see you got one. Can I have a look? Yes, it's for you. I get to keep this. Added one more for you. You know what?
27:16
I only have like three or four things signed in my collection. That's by design.
27:19
I never really do that, but would you do me the honor? No, please. Yeah. Yeah.
27:23
We'll get a pen later on cuz it's just I do think this is a timeless record.
27:25
I think this is this is not just for the moment, man.
27:29
This this carries on and on and on and on.
27:30
I can't wait for you to see the live show, though, too because this album is meant to be played live.
27:37
I don't Well, I was going to ask you that.
27:38
I'm glad you brought it up.
27:38
I don't I do not know how you're going to I know you you are. Right. Right. But how you going? Yeah.
27:47
Oh, I love it with the smoky finish.
27:49
Smoky like marble finish. Yep. Damn, that look good. I'm I want it back. Actually, it's too late. Give it to me.
27:57
But here's the good news.
27:57
Cuz you gave me a record.
27:58
Even though it's yours, we're now in this trade which I have with a few people. What?
28:03
Oh, it's you got to give me one back.
28:04
No one ever realizes this when they give me a vinyl that that you then enter into this unspoken trade where the next time I see you, I then give you something and then it just it could take a year, could take 10 years, then you give me something and that's how it works.
28:19
Dang, I might be in a trade right now with a couple people.
28:22
It's up to you whether you want to you want to call it.
28:24
I I definitely am like, "Oh, the clock starts."
28:27
Like now now I'm going to think of a I think I already know what I'm going to give you, too.
28:32
My homie gave me a fire one and I was just like it uh Eddie Kendrick's one and I was like, "Whoa, I got to That's deep."
28:41
Yeah, I got I got to I got to get him one. Damn.
28:43
He gave me two and Carol King that tapestry album. Oh yeah. Yeah.
28:47
You got to definitely look out for him. Yeah.
28:49
He Has anyone given you that debut Bonnie Wright's debut album yet? Mm-m. That's fire.
28:53
I have an original pressing of that.
28:56
Maybe I'll save that for you.
28:59
You going to lo You going to give me your original? It's the least I can do. Look at this. I love how um Boulevard. It's so cool.
29:03
You have so much fun with this.
29:08
Yeah, we we I think it's that's also a part of the growth too is just and why I think it's important for even if you're a fan of an artist to allow them the time.
29:20
But if they if they kind of fumble with the time you've allowed them, then I could understand the frustration.
29:27
But I feel like having a a a forever, I guess, core to me is just about trust.
29:38
If your name is on it, they're they know it's of quality.
29:40
And I think that's that's what I'm trying to build is at the same time.
29:44
Glad you brought up the term trust.
29:44
On that level, you you seem to have a very very good grasp on how to establish trust.
29:55
On a personal level, based on the themes of this album, I would say that is one of the glaring areas of life that you've been trying to figure out.
30:02
My perfectionism doesn't it doesn't help cuz sometimes when it comes to relationships or just like I think just like my I'm getting out of it though.
30:11
Just like my overarching bird's eye view of growing.
30:17
Sometimes I get into this trap that think that means growth is perfect.
30:23
I can't move on until I perfected that. Yes.
30:26
Or if something's working and then it stops working for a little bit, I'm like, "Oh, this doesn't work anymore."
30:33
And that creates inconsistency.
30:35
Oh, that is a cycle of pain, my friend.
30:37
Yeah, that is a cycle of pain because the the the the real growth, as you now know, is in the is in the flaws.
30:42
Yeah, it's in it's in the it's in working through those issues, right?
30:47
And it's like more of a percentage base.
30:49
It doesn't have something doesn't have to work 100% of the time.
30:57
But I don't know why I I think it's just like I'm laughing cuz you're making a math right now cuz you're not there. I know.
31:02
I still got to You're still putting it through the algorithm.
31:05
You're like, listen, for me to grow, I need to put this in a graph. Yeah, it doesn't.
31:09
And it helps in some places.
31:11
Right now, our relationship is clocking in at 84%. And I'm okay with that. 16%.
31:15
I'm okay with I'm okay with a B. Yeah.
31:18
My relationship could be like a B.
31:20
In like two conversations, three conversations time, you'd be like, "Bro, I don't I don't do the math anymore." Yeah.
31:26
I'm still I'm the next album cuz even in this as much growth as there is, there's still some like themes that are thematically there's still some work that needs to be done.
31:35
It's interesting though that that you talk about this idea of perfection and how you measure what is worth connecting to or committing to based on whether or not it has the the possibility of perfection or not.
31:48
It's what I get from this record songs on on this album talking about like, you know, I thought this was going to be something more, but it's not.
31:54
It's like, oh yeah, your idea of perfection just got shattered. Yeah.
31:58
And then when it's when that's gone, I'm like, wait, hold on.
32:02
cuz I get into like patterns and and something like I get a mantra every morning and if it's oat milk in there instead of almond somebody gonna have to see me. You know what I mean? That's not okay. I want almond milk. Why? I don't like oat milk.
32:19
It tastes like like weird.
32:19
This is big de right here. Big diva energy. Yeah. Going on right here.
32:27
I don't play about my matcha.
32:27
It's a great matcha actually.
32:29
Now you would first thing you did when you sat down was like that's a great looking mas like all right also that guitar back there.
32:36
Do you have any extra pics?
32:39
I don't even know if we have any pics.
32:39
I normally just uh I don't really pick it up in studios anymore because Sabrina Carpenter just torched me when I tried to do that. Was she playing?
32:47
No, I was I started playing a song of hers and she was like, "Are you canning me right now? Is this a ken bar?"
32:51
I was like, "Oh, I'm never doing that in this video ever again."
32:53
There was no recovery from that. She played a blinder.
32:57
I see you've got a a guitar there.
32:59
That's a beautiful guitar. I've been playing. Yeah. Are we about to trade?
33:07
Am I giving you Is this the trade? You don't want this one. Maybe.
33:12
I don't even know if it's a Maybe I do.
33:13
you know, tell me about your guitar playing, uh, how you're fitting that into your into your ritual into into how you cuz I I know based on just talking to you in the past and today that you you do like to move with purpose.
33:28
There's purpose in how you do things from matcha on.
33:32
So, how how do you how do you factor learning something or getting better at something into that?
33:39
That's an interesting question.
33:40
As someone who strives for perfection, Where does learning fit into a daily ritual where everything is supposed to start and end with with perfection? So, how do you do that?
33:52
I'm a recovering perfectionist.
33:52
I I still relapse at times.
33:56
But what I do is I try to just say progress over perfection.
34:00
Oh, that must be horrible for you. It's difficult.
34:02
But if I see if I see that there's something making progress, I'm like, all right, now now the only issue would just be patience.
34:09
Like, and I'm okay with that.
34:14
I'm okay with trying to figure out patience instead of trying to figure out perfection.
34:18
That plays actually because this album is an is an exercise in patience. Yeah.
34:22
And reaching as near to perfect as you can get on a on a modernday R&B soul record, a music record, like contemporary soul. I like that. It very much is.
34:31
and and and you know again the sonic just the way that you've been able to the whoever worked on the e whoever eqed your Thomas seven Thomas eded the whole project dude the EQ on the kicks alone is like I would just listen to you over the kick drum something and he he was doing stuff in there that I'm just like bro I want to go home cuz we would be in there at 2 a. m. time. It's a painful process.
35:02
And he's from a he's from he he discovered me too.
35:05
And he's from a school of he's from this where you had to you were bringing your reals or something.
35:13
He he you know how like tapes my guy tapes or whatever it was.
35:16
He he would tell me stories and I'm like such a fascinating dude. Hold that thought.
35:21
You're like this timeless human being from from another world who's like I watch UFC and have no idea how music was recorded before 1997.
35:29
I'm like you cutting what?
35:32
Cuz it's like I'm also still uh that's why I can make this and not come off as me trying to make that album because the only my only reference really to this time is just me listening to it.
35:48
I wasn't a part of the creative process.
35:50
I didn't know the culture of anything.
35:51
I'm just like, this is how I want to feel, but also I'm actually still I'm from this generation of music. Yeah.
36:00
So, it's just like and that's why you stuck around.
36:01
That's why he's sticking around while he's doing that.
36:03
Like most artists would be like, I'm I don't want to go home. I'm going home.
36:10
The fact that you said I want to go home actually shows a lot of character in terms of the the the connection between those two people. Mhm.
36:17
This person who, well, this person over here, if I look at it on my right brain, who is like, I'm a modern consumerrist, like I'm a I'm a consumer.
36:28
I'm a I I like the stuff. Yeah.
36:33
But I also come from here, so I better I better stick around. Yeah.
36:36
And I want to stay around like just to I cuz I I value longevity as well.
36:41
So, it's just like even Usher story is just so inspiring.
36:45
I'm like, "Yeah, let's talk about that."
36:49
I'm cuz it's like this is a rhythm and blues act who did does a Super Bowl, has a crazy residency, and then has a crazy tour later.
37:07
I'm like as as like a black American rhythm and blues artist, I'm looking at that like salivating like all I have to do is be quality. Yeah.
37:17
Here's the thing with Usher.
37:19
Quality and consistency and consistency. So shows up.
37:20
When he did the Super Bowl, he was like, "What are we doing? What are we doing?" Like crazy. Just ready.
37:29
And I'm just like, "Whoa, Usher is something else." Yeah, he's incredible.
37:33
His work ethic is out of control.
37:35
and it's really inspiring.
37:36
So, I'm just like, "Okay, let me stay in here and make progress." Yeah. So much progress.
37:42
Beloved is the name of the album.
37:44
We're having I'm certainly having a really wonderful conversation once again with my friend here.
37:49
Uh talking about the all of the beauty that's gone into making an album, which is by no means an easy ride.
37:53
Um you know, it's it's it's tough at times, man.
37:59
And it definitely sounds like a young man, a young person trying to figure out accountability, but also still really enjoying saying you. You picking. It's like, you know me. You know me.
38:14
It's like, and this album was hard to, as fun as it was to make, it was very hard to make.
38:22
What were the What was the hardest thing for you to to work your way through?
38:24
I started the project in a relationship and I'm releasing it single.
38:30
How long was the relationship? Um, couple years. Mhm. Feel real? Yeah. Yeah.
38:38
It was the But it was like the themes in the album are why it probably wouldn't work because you take a picture and you like you look at the picture long enough and you start noticing stuff like, "Oh, is that a pimple?
38:50
Is that a oh, my hairline's kind of crooked."
38:54
Or you just like So, as I in me knowing myself, I make it's autobiographical. I listen to the album.
39:00
I'm like, "Oh, maybe that's why it didn't work." Oh, maybe it was me. But when you Yeah.
39:06
When you're in it, you're like, "Wait, you're not aware."
39:11
So, now that I look step back and look at the picture, the movie of the album, I'm like, "That's someone who's not he should not be in a relationship."
39:19
So, it's the person who is is the subject of some, if not a majority of these songs, um, assuming that they're going to recognize because they knew who they're in a relationship with, so they're going to recognize what what what is going on here.
39:32
How do you think they're going to feel when they finish it if you finish listening back to it, having made it, and go, "Okay, I can look at myself in the mirror and see someone different than I saw when I started making this record.
39:43
M I can recognize my accountability and my role in in in a failed relationship which happens to everybody in life.
39:51
How do you think if you can guess this person is going to feel and they listen back to there'll be some validation in this experience do you think for them? Will it be painful? Do you think about that?
40:01
I feel like it's going to come in stages.
40:02
I feel like stage one is probably going to be annoying. Yeah.
40:06
Why have I got to be the subject of this record?
40:07
Why and then it's going to be like oh he's exploiting my feelings in this or he's and I'm saying this because I've experienced this with it's a valid thought and I'm just like I mean doesn't need to be real but it's a valid thought and it's just and then it starts to create the the thought of like well did you do that on purpose?
40:32
Was I just amused for this?
40:32
And I'm like that's the that's the one for me having spoken to a lot of artists about writing about real life stuff that sticks around the least amount of time because it's like no artist goes into a relationship thinking about material.
40:48
You're just trying to find some normality in a very abnormal existence. Right.
40:52
I think that's what most people in life is trying are trying to do. Yeah.
40:55
But that's the thing too with dating someone who's not in the space, which is like something I I prefer.
41:00
I would prefer, but it's there's certain understandings that they won't understand. Yeah.
41:07
So then the flip side of that is you get you you end up in a relationship with someone who does understand, but guess what?
41:11
It's double the firepower. Yeah.
41:13
I I don't think I would date like Well, you're a private guy and that is that is unfort that would compromise that ability to stay private. Yeah, for sure. It just does.
41:26
Unless there's Unless their music sucks. He's with who? Oh wow. Oh wow. God bless love. You know that's love. Great couple.
41:40
That's love for you right there. Mhm. You know what I mean?
41:42
There he is side of stage supporting like a great partner.
41:49
Yo, that would be that would be funny.
41:51
But I do think like I'm sorry. It's funny to me.
41:52
Privacy is just it's just the way to go.
41:54
Like a public relationship intentionally.
41:59
Oh, I don't even think it should even be a statement. I I like what? I know.
42:02
And the thing is like I I feel bad for the people who clearly want to stay private.
42:06
And I know some people who do and they've had to just accept that the train leaves the station because they're not going to deny themselves a relationship with someone they really care about in order to prevent the world caring. It's just okay, it.
42:17
It comes with the territory.
42:19
And that and I feel bad for those people. Yeah.
42:22
And then I've also met some people and I'm friends with some people who are like they dig it. Yeah.
42:26
Like this is they dig it.
42:27
But now you know what I'm saying.
42:29
And this is not literally this, but I'm single, telling married. That's just a response.
42:35
Hey, what do you cuz I get that question like, what are you doing? Who you with?
42:39
I'm single, telling married.
42:42
Journalists ask you that question. I' I've been asked that. Yeah.
42:46
I guess cuz the music is so focused on relationships, they're probably trying to connect the dots. Yeah.
42:51
And I think thematically I always I love love like my favorite genre of film is romcoms. Yeah.
42:58
Second is like heist and cons.
42:58
So maybe I got like a little movie night around yours, man.
43:03
I'm telling you, we got the same taste in that It's going to be romcoms was number one for me.
43:07
I'm definitely in that kind of like just put some like like unrealistic amount of like guns and explosions, you know? something.
43:16
Me and Justin Vernon have a strong mutual affinity with Gerard Butler films.
43:21
Jason Stathithm is in that realm of the same movie.
43:24
Oh man, he's got he's another one with a particular set of skills, but so good at it.
43:30
Like I That's why like I I feel I think that's why I'm an album artist because of Jason Staithm. Yeah. Gerard Buller.
43:40
Because I I love Jason Staithm.
43:40
I'd watch anything with Jason Staithm in it.
43:44
I have a new like favorite movie actor that I like.
43:49
And by movie, I mean I'll go see him. Okay. Uh Glenn Powell. Did you say that, too? I'm all for him.
44:01
And this is someone who This is a divisive young actor, let me tell you.
44:06
You get in it with me and my friends.
44:10
Some of my friends are just like, "Fuck out of here with that guy."
44:14
Oh, it's it's like the hater love it. Oh my gosh.
44:17
And then other friends of mine, I'm talking about him and they're like, there just aren't enough high fives to go around. Mhm.
44:24
It's just like it's that movie.
44:26
It's it's the you know what I mean? It's those movies. He's a movie star. That's what it is. He's a movie star.
44:32
He's a good oldfashioned Brockheimr developed movie star.
44:35
You know Brockheim is that guy who's just like cruise power.
44:40
Like he's just like I want the He picks I want the movie star. Mhm. It's digestible, too.
44:45
You know, sometimes I'll I'll go watch a A24, a Neon. Yeah. You know, Anora. I love Anora. Anor is great.
44:54
That was my That was my pick. Yeah, same.
44:56
But sometimes I want to Oh, yeah.
44:58
I want to see somebody run into a wall. You know what I mean?
45:01
I want to see someone run through a wall through it.
45:04
Like literally through it.
45:06
Like that's what I miss about 80s films is that people used to be able to do whatever stupid that just like now it's like CGI you got to be a superhero to be it's almost like to running through a wall is not enough anymore.
45:21
You have to be able to like it's it's too like uh it's somewhere between what's possible and what's impossible.
45:27
I'd rather have a superhero who does everything that's impossible.
45:29
I just want a big guy to run through a wall. Mhm. is awesome.
45:34
And then you're going to go watch an indie film.
45:35
Do you watch indie films?
45:37
I watch an A24 every now and then. Safy baby.
45:41
Sometimes my my wife will be like just something with subtitles.
45:46
What does she listen to all the music you listen to? No, not even close.
45:50
She has her own taste and and we you know we cross into some territory which is really cool and she has a real she won't like me gassing her like this but she has a real incredible unbelievable ability to remember lyrics.
46:03
I mean right down to the point where I'll be listening to like a company flow song that nobody knows the lyrics to like an early LP type thing and she'll just be like we'll be driving and then she'll just go out of nowhere.
46:14
My rhyming quizzical lyrical fitical rap.
46:16
I'm just like, "What the where did that come from?"
46:21
That's from you playing it though.
46:23
No, that's from like her childhood.
46:23
Like having friends who listen to that stuff and it just she's got a good She retains stuff. That's crazy.
46:29
But no, she's she's, you know, she's has an opinion about the stuff I like she doesn't like. That's for sure.
46:32
She's like, she's way more opinionated than me. She was doing this. She has a good memory. You said? Yeah. Really?
46:38
Oh, so you lose every argument. Every argument.
46:40
Well, and she's also You be like, I said that. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
46:45
And she's also like, you know, when let's talk about arguments for a second.
46:48
You know, like when you go into have an argument with somebody and it's like, okay.
46:51
I mean, it's like fight or flight, fight or flight.
46:52
Like I'm like, I'm like, how do we resolve this? Yeah.
46:55
Like, let's get to the solution.
46:57
My wife's like, let's go. Let's go. She's like UFC. She's like, let's go.
47:04
She's fighting blood though. Blood on the mat. Fight or flight.
47:07
That's a good like brains working right now. Oh, good. Yeah.
47:13
I believe you in a creative space. Mhm.
47:15
Before we go though, I want to talk more about this forthcoming live experience, live music experience that you were planning because again, this is as a body of work.
47:29
I mean, it's going to grow up your previous music in a big way too, right?
47:33
Because the band's going to playing those songs. Exactly. Through this filter. Yeah. That's right.
47:36
So, it's not going to be like, okay, now we're going to take you back three years or 5 years.
47:38
No, no, we're going to bring these songs with us. Yeah. Elevate them. Elevate them.
47:43
the whole thing is elevated.
47:44
So, as someone who was in Westlake listening to great musicians and great arrangers and vocal arrangers and and seven and all these great people around you having to carve this wonderful thing. Mhm.
47:55
Um, and as a as a recovering perfectionist, how are you getting on with bringing it to life to life away from that controlled environment?
48:04
Because it's just it's just you just can't control the tour.
48:07
You can't control live music the way you can in a studio.
48:09
So, so how's how's it going?
48:12
Well, live is Performing live is my favorite part of everything.
48:15
I like it more than songwriting.
48:17
I like it more than even speaking about the music in context because I I could do everything there and that's the only place I don't I'm not a perfectionist at. Right.
48:30
So, you get to be in the moment way more. Yeah.
48:32
I'm a lot more present live. Yeah.
48:34
So, I think as long as the I have an incredible band. Yeah.
48:39
I have um they must be excited to play these songs.
48:41
excited to play it because it's real music going on here.
48:44
Like I mean it always is, but it's like it'll it'll push them. Yeah.
48:49
And that was the thing with the musicians too.
48:50
And just like I told them the vision, they were excited to be able to cuz a lot of times these producers who are working in uh like just like a Ableton or Logic, whatever programs, Fruity Loops, those are they're still musicians.
49:07
So they they got to scratch a itch working on this.
49:09
So, I think live these musicians are going to be able to just it's going to be fun and it's just gonna be full flow state and I think that's gonna actually be the the fun part.
49:22
That's I think for me tour is just a celebration.
49:26
Oh, it's going to be spectacular.
49:27
Yeah, it's going to be nice.
49:28
It's going to be spectacular.
49:28
And I think this album where you you would I'm sure choose to give everybody as much of an intimate experience on this as you can just to get get your feet wet.
49:34
But where you end up with this is I think sky's is the limit on this record if you're willing to put the work in, which I know you are.
49:41
You know, you just got to believe in this album all the way through.
49:43
Not just after the day it comes out, you know? You got Oh, yeah. All the way through. Forever. Just like forever.
49:48
This is like I think I'm This is going to be a forever thing.
49:52
And it just it changed the my whole approach to how I'm going to make the next one cuz the quality has is going to be the same. Yeah.
50:00
like it's it's going to start here and then so whatever is above here is because it's also a process of just like having a way to be inspired but also mix it with your other inspir.
50:21
It's like a a cocktail of my inspirations.
50:22
That's why it also feels like it has this modern take to it.
50:27
It's so flawless and I'm so excited for you.
50:29
everything you're going to do from bringing this beautiful music to life and have theaters and arenas maybe if you want to do it.
50:35
I'm I know you can is whether you want to and then MSG for sure. For sure.
50:39
And then you know maybe even I don't know some open air park stuff you know right through to that day that you sing the national anthem at the UFC battle royale or whatever it is you're going to do catch everybody off guard.
50:50
You know what I like is that?
50:52
And now to sing the national anthem instead of the Super Bowl.
50:57
Like I said no to the Super Bowl.
51:00
I just rather sing in a cage at the battle royale. Mhm.
51:05
It's really good to see you. Nice to see you, man.
51:06
I I promise it won't take that long.
51:09
You take as long as you need.
51:09
As long as you come back as good as you come back. [Music]