[Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] hey everybody this is Sam one of the producers of conversations with Tyler this is part two of the bonus episode showing the daily life culture and politics of Nairobi and Kenya at large in this episode you'll hear from gai ga tingi who is an elder working in Tatu
city of 5,000 acre mix use development just north of Nairobi in case you missed it make sure to check out part one to hear from Harriet Mory a young woman working in tat City for a different perspective now on to the show conversations with Tyler is produced by the mercus center at George
Mason University Bridging the Gap between academic ideas and real world problems learn more at marcus.org for a full transcript of every conversation enhanced with helpful links visit conversations withth tyler.com hello everyone and welcome back to conversations with Tyler today I'm
sitting here in Tatu city right outside of Nairobi Kenya and I'll be chatting with Kai kinji he's a businessman in the transport industry and he's a Kiku Elder he's stationed at Tatu City where he's a chairman his roles as chairman include dispute resolution and also coordinating
Community ceremonies his most recent activity as the elders chairman for the area around Tatu city was planning and coordinating the cleansing ceremony of a Mumu tree being moved into Tatu City G is 58 years old he is from the aiyu community he is born and raised in mukui
Neri County the central region of Kenya he resides now in kiambu County where he has also established his business Kai welcome welome thank you for talking with me yeah what is your business could you tell us I deal with transports transports what does that mean specifically I have tattoos and I have
uh small Vehicles which I normally deliver for commercial purposes yeah and you own the vehicles you sell them to businesses to individuals or who are your customers no I do transport let's say transporting people from ru to Nairobi oh so you drive them from one place I I own so I
emplo I employ people who do that business who do that job I'm just the manager of I manage my business yes when you look for good drivers who will do good work what qualities do you look for in them a driver who is competent of what he's doing but how do you tell if
they're good when you talk to them you have an interview what do you ask or how do you approach that normally I do test them me personally see whether some has all the the requirements to be a driver you need to have all the documents that are required by the government and then his ability to do that job how can you
tell who will be a good driver or not a good driver is a person who is qualified in that skill so the main thing is the license the main thing is the license plus the other government documents and whether somebody is Sober Sober yeah sober you know you can EMP some others who are
who are drunkard who can yes kiss lot of things you have to look for somebody who is a little bit educated who knows the responsibility of a person who can handle that vehicle itself yes I understand yeah the part of Kenya where you're from that's mcen right yeah what
is special about that part of Kenya the part of Ken murini well as I could say I left the place long time ago yes the moment I finished my school yeah I came here in Ru and that's why I established myself here in R I left my motherhood why did you leave there I was just coming to look for good
pastures here when I came here just for a better jobs yes when I came here I was employed here so when I get employed there I got invested here yes I got a piece piece of prot here which I built so I here now and where you come from do you miss it in any way or you're just
happier to be here no I just go there visiting just visiting even though I lost my mother and father so I just go and visit my brothers who are there why do you think you left and they didn't like what's the difference that is a lural area we don't have a lot of job opportunities like we have here in in
kabo in Nairobi even apart from jobs if you just think about living there is it more exciting to live here or more interesting to live there well I would say it's more interesting to live here cuz if I may think of job opportunities or looking for something here it's more
convenient more than theur area and your native language from the family is kiswahili right yeah and you learned English here or you learned it in school or yeah no but that you grew up speaking right I grew up speaking Kiku aiku okay yeah Kiku is my main language okay yeah
and what other languages do you speak the other languages this is kahi yeah yes and English of course and English how did you learn those from school when you were growing up as a boy yeah when I was going I as a young boy yeah yeah I went up up to form four yeah yeah if you
think about Africa as a whole yeah do you think you're lucky to live in Kenya or you wish you were somewhere else or how do you view Kenya within Africa Kenya is a good country what makes it good it makes it good for actually the way have red here the way have stayed here I've never seen bad things in terms
of like violence or disorder no violence people are here very piss yeah yeah and you think the economy is pretty good for Africa well it's I would say it's good yeah yeah how did you come to have your role in Tatu City in tat City where iide is just near the tat City area right so
as the community we just have groupings where we go and you are shown how our tradition we normally do right we normally do enjoy and have our own ways of conducting our own selves so I joined the those who are there that I was initiated to that group I became so active to an extent that
even then they fa the L I'm praying to them I need to be their Elder and they choose me as their shair okay I understand yeah and what makes you good at that like what's your quality that makes you a good Elder it's because of knowing how to coordinate people in in the best way if you a violent man I just
came I talk with you in a poite way HH yes you understand one another I show you how you are supposed to live with the other with the other people I show you the goodness of peace and such kind of things so it's a lot of experience dealing with people yeah what would be a
typical dispute that you have to decide or solve a lot of them but like what would be an example what might happen where they need you example yes let's say if there's a fight between a man and a man yes if there's a person who have let's say got somebody's property such kind of things
we sit down talk it out somebody the other domestic violence all of that and what do you do that the court system does not do right cuz you're not police but still you do something useful what we normally do we as a group we listen to one another yes very much and when one person dishes to that
stage of being told that you are a man now you normally have to respect your Elder yes those people do respect me so when I call you when I tell you come and we talk it out with my group you cannot say you cannot come because if you do it we normally discipline somebody not by
beating we just remove you from our group and when we isolate you from our group you'll feel that is not fair for you you come back and say I apologize we take you back to the group so if you're isolated you can't be friends with those people anymore when we isolate you we
mean you are not allowed to interact in anyway any business anything yes with the other community and if it is so definitely you have to be a rer cuz you might be needing one of those people to help you in a business or something of the sort but when you isolated this man
tells you no go cleanse yourself first with with that group and does your family reject you also or just your friends if your family dests you that is a family dispute and if it comes to that yes we take it in another way cuz we have to know first how does that disput allize right it might be your wife is
the one who has a problem for that one we don't interfere so much we leave it to the family yes yes but if the man has the problem if the family have a problem also we chip inside and we help them to resolve that dispute by talking to both of them trying to get them to agree
again yes what's the biggest family problem that you see the most common one the most common one is it happens when one man is so drun be the the the woman she ises the woman the woman pushes with other men call itally when she does that at least you do normally shaping to disolve that
issue but not most common that one we normally leave it to the family right yes not unless the family comes to us and tell us we need help in this we we do we normally don't like so much interfering the family matters problems with children you deal with those or not so much in form of children yes we do
normally do cuz in our group as men we initiate small boys yes from childhood to adulthood we circumcise yes yes when the age we have groupings where we K boys kuu boys from meu yeah that is our community we call it GMA Community the group of that Community we do have groups where we
have our own doctors qualified doctors for like let's say like like last year we had one in grii primary school that is where we we were we had 350 boys who we initiated we help them we call them we talk with them tell them the light of Passage that one person is going MH educate them and
after that we stay with those boys for 10 days 10 days till that boy is healed yes and how old is the boy at this point at this point is when he finishes 38 okay well now he's going to form one yes yes we make sure we Mentor that boy at the same time after the boy goes back to the
pance the the following year MH we make sure we prepare a seminar we call them because we do normally follow them up to see whether this boy have have good behaviors or whatever yes if she tries to be misbehaved let's say p and be and the last you talk to that boy we make
sure that we are Ming somebody who can uh be able to come and join the community and there's a ceremony surrounding this initiation is there parties or people get together or how does that work what happens we have the doctors who initiates the boy and we have old men coordinated by me if it's in my I have
to I'm the sh there the was who talk with these children show them how to live and whatever yes yeah and if there was a problem you could fix in your community one thing you could improve what would it be well what I wish very much for example like you people when you come to
this place just try to help us MH the people try to come boarding these people cuz you have come you got these people if you board with them we also welcome you as our brother yes yes and wish is so good yeah and Kiku people in Kenya do you think they're different from the other groups or the culture is different
how would you describe that well all all the all the groups has their own caser yes if this it's Kiku they have their own if is LS they have their own and this is something that we met it is not something that we are creating it is from our old Grand grandfathers and how would you describe
what is special about Kiku culture what I would describe about them they are good that is one thing and and I'm not saying they are good because I'm a yes yes I'm saying because they are hardworking people yes yes many people say they're very good at business and
they are friendly and good business people MH yeah they are business-minded and they are not lazy people people not lazy do you think they're more extroverted more open more than even if you go to any part of this country there's nowhere you can go and don't fight aiku yes if you move
from here to mbasa you get out of K if you go everywhere K are always there they like interacting with the other communities and the way marriage works for Kiku is it different from the other groups marriage marriage courtship how you decide whom to marry the ceremony
everything is it the same or different this no there's no difference because we also marry other communities yeah akik is allowed to marry aaba yes yes we intermar with with those communities and you marry at the same age younger older or that's all the same s it it depends
with the feeling of that one person you can Mary whoever you want yes yeah you are free we don't have limitations that you should Mary this or that but we do not encourage old men to marry small children sure of course not yeah that's not good yeah how many children do you think a typical family wants to have now
in Nairobi in Nairobi most I can as I can see now these young people are prefering two three two or three but in our times in our old like in my family yes my father had eight eight yeah which do you think is better according to today economy I would say we don't go all that much get
in 10 STS which you you won't be able to look at after it is better you have three or four whom you know very well yeah you are going to CER to them to their adulthood there are some countries where families just have one I mean is that weird to you or but you know you go to Korea people have on average about
one a little less actually but average of one is not good cuz you know accidents do normally happen sure if you have one show he dies you are left in nothing yeah why get two or three yeah yes so in the case of anything you are left with something if you have one and he dies
and you are old you cannot get another one you see you be left like that yes yeah children here do they take good care of their parents and grandparents yeah they do it they do and that's expected it's part of the culture it is this but we don't force them to mhm yeah it will depend with
relationship between your children you your own self yes cuz there are some men or women who do not care for their childrens yes they just get the children and let them go away yeah it's good to interact with children show them you you are their father show them you are their mother these childrens we will will give
you back yeah yes the way you bring out a children is the way you he also and today the the grandparents do they help bring up the children even if there's only two yeah they still do yeah and what if the family has moved to Nairobi moved to Mombasa and the grandparents are far
away like how do things work for we for we KU yes if somebody lives from far we do normally meet let's say during the holidays you make sure you go home you enjoy them how do you get home you take a bus you take a bus or if you have me you have a vehicle you just go there just drive yeah yes drive
with stay with your family for Le two or 3 days and you go back to job yeah yeah now I have read in the newspapers the cost of living in Kenya is much higher now than a few years ago it is why did that happen I don't know whether it's because of the population I don't know
whether it's because of the development we have here but actually for that one I cannot really but it's because of you know we have a high what do we call it let's if you look in ways or another the climate have changed yes and when the climate have changed we don't have enough food do you
give me L and when you don't have enough food you expect the life has to be more harder cuz there are some people who depends with the lane you give me right from that if you go to the let's say a place like in naobi right now as we living the cost of living also is so
high why cuz in let's say let me talk about the sector in of transport of Transportation the is very hard because of the increase of petroleum cuz if I could say the price of petrol is too high and I cannot be able to hike the price of the person I'm carrying CU these people
don't have money so I have to to dig deeper to my pocket to sustain what is been added in the petrol yeah yeah and what do you think should be done to change things because it cost so much what needs to be done is now that is now up to the government now to know how they are going to look at their
people yes yes cuz we now we tied up yeah but do you know what should be changed to improve this thing because one if you see for the climate that is our that is g now we have to pay to go out to give us good L like this year we had good rins what we could do is we
know why we are not having enough rain why we plant a lot of trees we stop logging we plant a lot of trees so that we could get in our R when you go back to the side of the government now now the government is for them to know how they are going to legalize these prices so that at
least the life should be a little bit yeah do you you use mobile money to buy things money in your smartphone yeah and how does that work for you that's easy that's hard or how is it it is not hard it's easy cuz when we get money we do know nowadays we even use phones when you are paying things
it's more better to because we don't lose a lot of money when we used even though there's a lot of tax in it and do you order things online you buy online and someone sends it to you no for me I don't but younger people do or but young people do what kind of things do they buy online
oh normally they buy things that they don't have you don't have here yeah things from other countries from other countries like Vehicles yeah kitchen wears and whatever even building materials they do nor do it and why don't you buy online me I'm a little bit analog do you listen to YouTube at
all it's l what do you listen to the the common radio common radio yeah what kind of music banga music or you listen to Congo music traditional music traditional music yeah Trad what kind of traditional Kyu or music whichever I like this one very much and this will be on the radio do
you like musics from other African countries definitely yes what else do you like oh you're talking of what you like yeah Nigeria there's a lot of Nigerian music in America now all of all countries all countries yes the only thing the music should you know whichever music if it's
good do you listen to any American music if it chance to be in there I do you do yeah what do you listen to whichever music it's been whichever is playing on the radio yeah you have public utilities right you get electricity water how good are those Services the service that we are being
given by that you get your electricity is it reliable yes it is it is and your water even the water is we have enough water you have enough water yeah from these Bohol that we are getting from the is and you get water from a well or from piping or how does your water come let's
see in our area this area we have now we have people who get supply from water form Wells and also from the country government yes yeah and you feel that Safe Water we could say it's safe cause what they normally do when we get this water it's it's already treat they treat it so
that we can yes consume it what are some of the other expenses for a family in Kenya so there's food right Transportation rent what else is a big problem education yeah if you send your kid to school the kid is 10 the school is free or you have to pay you have to pay even
for government school if in government you also have to pay but little money yeah and you think the schools are good or well I would say it's good cuz I'm used to those schools you don't have more that we can they are better than those yeah you normally adapt what you see or what you get there yes yeah
funerals do they cost a lot of money no for the funeral it depends with the family yes cuz you for the fal if the family FS they are going to buy an expensive house or coffin is to them that only depends on how they family is cuz there are some who don't require a lot of money there
are some who like to use a lot of money that only normally depend with the how the family is and the family pays for everything or the community shares the cost the community most of the times for the for the Fels the community is shipping and who decides how much people pay nobody decides you give what you
have you are not been forced to you have to give this you know so people who have more money they give more money definitely yes do you ever have disputes over this that you have to judge no because they always agree yeah I'm surprised they always agree in my country they would not always agree I
don't know why I think in this country of us we don't have like we don't do like that if you could change something about the government in Kenya like what would you change what's the biggest problem if you yeah if I could you could change something about government here
they would do something new stop doing something bad change some law what would you change uh for that one I couldn't say there's nothing I can or I cannot change course I depend with what my government tells me to do yes yeah so there's nothing you can change and not unless
the governments come in and tell me change this and change this yeah yes they have our leaders and we have elected them yes so we we have to follow what they tell us to do but sometimes do you wish they would tell you different things we as Elders we don't dispute with the government you don't dispute
yeah we don't and you help enforce it in a way right and we don't force them to do things yeah we depend on what they tell us yeah yeah women's rights movements in Kenya do you see a lot of that feminism bigger role for women more women working well for we women let's say I
can't talk much even though they have their own lights mhm yeah so what do you think of feminism in Kenya women should work have equal say as the men have more rights no we all equal here all equal women have their lights and we do have our own lights yeah so you think women
have equal rights already even though when we come to our community there are some stages that we limit you cannot expect a woman to be controlling a man in home no mhm yes and in government how many women are there but the president is not a woman right yeah people in the legislature there are mostly
men no even women we created another let's say in the S we have women so that they they could bring that the J to be almost the same yeah yeah how was it here during times of coid was it a big change or not so much well but by then the the life was too hard cuz that is something that we
are not used with yes yes we had a very hard time things closed down or everything stayed open things closed down we had to stay indoors we had there was a lot of cew the time that you need to work you were told no you can't go how many people got Co I actually I cannot tell you the
actual figure but a lot of people did you no I didn't so you were lucky let's say it's good because uh I also went for the fascination I was I took the whole medication so I thought so you took vaccine yeah I did and most people did here yeah which vaccine was it Chinese
American do you know British the all the people we are taking or do you know which one you had I can't remember actually yeah yeah how was it to stay at home for so long I mean was that hard no it was hard it was tough cuz you cannot expect being told at once stay at home and you are not
used with it yeah was too hard yeah I think it was very hard in many places and we lost a lot a lot of people died not know even economically we lost a lot and I think that that time of coid is the one that brought even these hardships we have even today MH we have
not yet turned to our normal because of that period how much do you worry about crime people stealing things from you is crime a big problem for you or do you feel it's very safe well sometimes back let's say in two or 3 years there were a lot of crimes but nowadays is the government
have tried to regularize the crime in these are of us with more police or what do they do not even more police also involv in the community we the government decided to introduce this thing you call new Baki yes when it was introduced the new Baki if they noted there somebody who is not
good in that family they had to report to the nearest so that that person could be dealt with and it did help a lot at the same time they also used the was and whatever in the community to identify all these THS and whatever and you think crime will keep on getting better in
Kenya yeah for this reason yeah why do you think crime is worse in Nairobi than in smaller cities definitely you expect because the the the life in town is more harsher than in the areas it's just tougher to live there yes costs are higher you need more money in town you need money and
when you need money you don't have a job we expect yourself to drive yourself to such kind of such kind of things what do you think is the biggest problem in the slums if you go to what maeno one of the slums employment employment so not enough good jobs yes and future jobs for Kenya what do
you think they will be fish job in Kenya that's what I was saying if we could have people who can help in getting us good jobs and whatever get trying to help these young people get jobs I think we could just minimize these kind of hardships that these young boys get yeah when President Obama visited Kenya
I think it was 2015 did you care were you excited you don't care or what do you think well for such a person visiting here yeah everybody were exitting Cu uh it was even been to that she was she her lot was from Kenya so we happy about the man coming to visit us you see
your brother who has God somewh and become great person so he's still very popular here yes man he's popular the Kenyans who move to America what do people think of them they're happy or they view them as totally different now or what's the image for that one I can't see much course I've never visited that
area but you haven't been to America but people talk about those who leave right at the same time I don't have who have been there how about Kenyans who go to Eng they normally say when they go there they get good the place is good or S kind of thing do you think they're
happier or do you think they're happier here the ones who leave definitely that one I cannot be able to answer course so I've told you I've never had a letter you can talk one in one and tell me there was a change in the constitution of Kenya it gave a lot more power to the counties right was
that a good idea yeah it was a good idea cuz the help that the government used to give the community yes when it was devolved to the people it became so nearer to the people more than when it was in the national government cuz if there is anything like development and whatever the money is in
the county it's it's more easier for the governor to deal with his work more than it was in the national government yeah I'm sure you know many foreigners come here to see Safari to see animals elephants do you care about these animals are you excited or you've
seen so many it's just ordinary for you what's your attitude we do care about CU it is even hard it is even a boost for us for the levenue when new people come you ship in something we spend money here yeah you spend money there here and the Eon our economy boosted a little bit but if you see an elephant
you personally are you excited or do you say oh I've seen a thousand elephants I don't care I'm also excited cuz I'm not mostly used with it yeah the things that cannot excite me is is is this thing you are living with it here time and again let's say something like a dog a cat you
with it are domestic things you cannot be affected for such kind of things but when you go get a leopard there at least you have to be excited and which animal excites you the most to see who me you hippo something like Carion lion yeah yeah cuz I'm not used to it so much the Lions if you see one are you afraid or
maybe they're afraid of you you expect it you you have to be be afraid cuz you you have the experience that if it Chan is to get you it's going to eat you mhm yeah do you ever go on a safari as a guide or do you go to Messi Mara to see the animals well uh normally don't cuz in my
area in we I just see these animals openly there you just see them normally you don't need to go anywhere so there's no point of going all that much spading and I could see them and I'm going on my way home have you seen leopard many people say leopard is hard to see yes I
do in noia we have those leopards yes yeah and you see all the different birds in your area or many of them yes I do see them is that interesting to you the birds it's not more it is not that much interesting because I'm used to e them yes yes what do you think is the attitude here toward China Chinese
people do you think they're welcome or there's Prejudice or well what we normally do here in our country if somebody is coming to help us they to expect us to be friend with that person but if somebody's coming to bring problems with that we say no that's not a good person and you think China has helped
Kenya overall well we could I could say yes because they have come to help our young boys when when they come to do the Lo and whatever they employ our young boys and whatever who are unemployed so they build roads they build buildings and that's good for people does America help
you at all they also do what do we do to help because when they come and start their project and whatever when let's say we see these people like this the who came to T City they also helping us because they well they come and sell this we get this Industries here this
Industries employ our youth which is a boost to our living here are there groups of people who come who don't help who make things worse well I couldn't say so cuz I have not gone to that study so much do you worry about Kenya's neighbors so you have a border with Ethiopia but there's
been a big war in Ethiopia do you worry this will affect Kenya well I Somalia right I do W but definitely I can do nothing because you don't know why those people are fighting they have their own domestic things there mhm so I prefer to M about my own if you help them with dispute resolution do you think you
could improve it for them if it can be if we can do it's good we can help them if we can if they can be able to be if you can reach there and be able to help them with des and whatever it's good cuz it is all it is always good to have FR tries and get your neighbor without a
lot of of vas and whatever fighting or whatever aot it's good to have a good neighbor yeah yeah a lot of people from India live in Kenya of course and they've lived here maybe a hundred years the families do you think of them as Kenyan or do you think still it's like different you think they're
Indian what I believe if you come here let's say you come here and you acquire property here if you get a shout when you are here I would say that sh is a Kenyan yes you're not supposed to be chased by anybody you have decided to come you also a human being I believe I can go
and live anywhere as long as I'm accommodated there yeah do you like Indian food I don't I don't say whether I like it or not cuz I've never you don't eat it I don't eat it you eat ugali Kenyon food yeah I'm used to my normal food and you like ugali more what else do you eat
for a normal meal what else do you eat what is that this is the meat from the meat we Slaughter from our goats and whatever does goat meat here have a special or sacred status is it the best meat well I would say yes cuz when we are doing our sacrifices We Men We Kiku
we normally use those those goats those labs yeah so that's your favorite food not L what's your favorite vegetables what like what kind at my age I don't prefer eating a lot of meat so much itic in these Local Foods what kinds of vegetables might you have here here yeah
that you eat we do have a lot of them but what would you eat a normal meal D I do yeah the young people do they eat the same things you eat or they eat very different things young people prefer taking these junk Foods this from the super markets chips and whatever of which is not really good for them they
should eat foods that we was eat that can live rer and live a little bit healthier yeah are you religious do you go to church yes I do Christian or Muslim or I'm a Christian Christian what kind like Protestant no I'm a Catholic Catholic yeah what about Catholic is more to
you I was brought up a Catholic from my childhood and I came to like it CU Catholics are no are not all that much controversial yeah and being religious does that help your work as Community Elder yes how does that relate how does it connect you know when you are near to God you are near to people also and the
people respect you more more than and you think the religion gives gives you some wisdom yeah do you watch TV at all I do what do you watch local Lo things like movies or news or just everything not much or movies not so much and what language do you watch in KU or English or any any yeah whatever's
on yeah yeah and you like foreign shows or like Kenya shows any the only thing is if it's interesting I do watch and what what would make a show interesting for you like what should the topic be if it's mostly talking about my how I you know our way of living that is I do
like a very much course I do like getting more experience on how to stay with people yes yeah your children they live in Kenya yes yes they live in Kenya how many do you have we have two great yeah and what do they do one is married both of them are girls one is married
the other one is in school yeah they live near here yeah yeah that's great that one I live with that at my PR yeah yeah what do you think is the next thing you will try to do for your community well I would say I would just try to go ahead with give them or showing them the way we should be living
here living in a peaceful way MH if you compare the views you have now to the views you had as a young person what have you changed your mind about in life I've Chang my mind my uh my mind C now I know how to stay with people mhm good living so you understand other people
better yeah more than and you see the importance of helping them cooperate yeah do you have any questions for me yeah I can ask you one please do you stay in t city do you work in city or you are just uh visitor I am just a visitor so I'm an old friend of Steven Jennings okay and I've never been to
Kenya before this is my first time okay I wanted very much to come yeah and I I knew Stephen here so I thought I would see him okay so I'm here for 5 to six days okay my wife is coming and then I go on Safari with her okay that's my story here yeah that's good so so this
Steven J is your good F he and I worked together over 30 years ago oh that's good but I I had not seen him in a long time either he was in many distant places and I live in America near Washington DC is your friends just go and tell him to help our boys who are here who are unemployed and how do you think he
should do that well as a community he can look for way if you have employment here you can just let us know and we ship these boys of ours here you can also help us with educating some of these young boys who are who need help yeah what do you think the rest of
the world should know about Kenya that they don't know well oh the only thing in Kenya the only problem we do have in Kenya is only employment yeah you want to see more foreign businesses come to create more jobs more Chinese investment more Americans who work Tatu City if you could have more
jobs and you have more investors to come here and invest in us when they are coming to invest we also benefit from the creation of jobs and whatever cuz we have a lot of young people who are more educated but they don't they don't have a because they don't have jobs yeah and
last question are you optimistic about Kenya and if so why you think the future will be better yeah why because according to my according to what I believe we are learning how to shape our country in the best way possible whether in hard times or good times we have to face all the
challenges and we have to make our country more better and we have also to invite you friends to come and help us also yeah in one way or another CU East or West home is the best Ki thank you very much thank you also thanks for listening to conversations with Tyler you can subscribe to the show on Apple podcasts
Spotify or your favorite podcast app if you like this podcast please consider giving us a rating and leaving a review this helps other listeners find the show on Twitter I'm @ Tyler Cowan and the show is @ Cowen convos until next time please keep listening and [Music] learning