0:16
Hey, hey, hey. feel. Hey Heat. Hey, Heat. Hey, power. Heat. Heat. N. Hey, hey, hey. Heat. Heat.
Search this video
3:12
We came to this world to reach the stars.
3:22
We came to this world to shape our future.
3:33
We came to this world to shape our future. Feel the new music. Team Deathmatch. You're watching TVPN.
4:57
Today is Friday, October 24, 2025.
4:59
We are live from the TVPN Ultra Dome, the Temple of Technology, the Fortress of Finance, >> the capital of capital, >> and we're here.
5:07
We have a special guest, special guest, friend of >> Happy to be here. Thanks for having me. Thanks for stopping by.
5:12
Um, we wanted to have you on the show for a few reasons.
5:18
Uh, we are going to run through the mansion section and get your opinion on whether these homes are worth passing up or an absolute steal.
5:25
It's something like $50 million.
5:27
So, we'll be going through that in a minute.
5:29
Uh, we also wanted to hear from you what's new in Feed Me World.
5:34
Do you have any scoops for us?
5:36
Do you have any breaking news?
5:38
Do you have any exclusives? We invited you here.
5:40
We want we want some news.
5:42
>> Um, well, I've been in LA for a few days and I got some local LA news from some of my readers because I did a a popup for a few days to sell these new hats, which LA readers got first.
5:54
>> Um, some of the people that came by had TVPN merch, which was cool.
5:56
So, they're fans, so it's good to have crossover.
6:00
Uh, what news do we have?
6:03
>> I'm hiring an intern, which you guys are saying not to. >> Breaking news. Breaking news. You heard it here first.
6:07
That's why you come to us for scoops like this.
6:11
>> This has never been shared.
6:11
She did not post about this included in the newsletter or anything.
6:16
>> It's not breaking news until TVP covers it. >> That's right. Um, what else can I say?
6:22
Feed me's first podcast is going live in two weeks.
6:24
We had to push back the the live date. Yeah.
6:26
But >> and and wait, run through the thesis of the podcast.
6:30
I thought it was getting >> Oh, it's it's like um it's a restaurant podcast.
6:34
It's hosted by my restaurant critic. I think it'll be fun.
6:36
Um, we have this idea that there's sort of a white space in kind of >> Wait, you guys don't curse or you do?
6:44
>> We don't curse, >> but you're welcome to.
6:44
We feel like that is if you want to be the first person to say a swear word on our show. >> Um, yeah.
6:51
Sort of uh any everybody likes restaurants and anybody can talk about restaurants.
6:56
So, we have some interesting people coming on to talk about restaurants with our restaurant critic, >> which will be a blast.
7:01
That'll go live in two weeks.
7:03
Thanks Substack for supporting that.
7:07
Um, some other things might come up over the next few minutes. >> Yeah.
7:10
I I I like that it wasn't just like the feed me show.
7:12
That was intentional, right?
7:14
Because that would be the logical thing is just like >> to do like Emily's show. >> Exactly.
7:18
Or I mean it could >> feed me would kind of be a good name for a restaurant. >> I know. I know. That is hilarious.
7:26
>> I was talking to somebody the other day and >> you have a different brand for it.
7:29
>> It's called Expense Account, which is the same name as the restaurant column. >> Is Ram sponsoring it? They need to. >> They should.
7:34
I'm having >> They're sponsoring us. Ramp.
7:36
com used cards, Bill Pay, accounting, and a whole lot more all in one place.
7:43
>> Yeah, they they should.
7:44
>> Where is my single, by the way? Is it over here? Where? Oh, which one am I on? I'm on this. There we go.
7:49
Okay, now I found my single. Perfect. Thank you.
7:53
>> Some people read my Substack. Who watched this? That's so good. Yes, >> that's so great.
7:57
>> Only David Crick can curse on the show. Uh, you're keeping it. Yeah.
7:59
Well, we we we we we we are about to understand the landscape of the restaurant world thanks to your new podcast. >> Yeah. It's going to be great.
8:10
>> Which is called >> expense account. >> Expense account. >> Expense account.
8:14
>> But the real reason that we wanted to have you on the show was to help us understand the media landscape.
8:20
>> There's been a lot of debate. There's a lot of debate.
8:22
>> There's been a lot of talk.
8:22
You have Par Paramount Sky Dance.
8:23
You have uh you know the free press starting a conversation.
8:27
you have uh uh media people like to talk about media.
8:31
So today we're going to talk about media.
8:35
>> Also, I think people have just simplified things way too much.
8:36
They try and break it down into a binary.
8:38
Are you legacy media or new media? Right?
8:40
You legacy media or new media?
8:42
We all know it's way more complicated than that.
8:45
>> And people like to say if you can't explain something in simple terms, you don't understand it. Yes.
8:48
But >> doesn't apply here. Today we will do it.
8:53
So we are going to break it down. We have a market. >> Market map. Yeah. Sort of market map.
8:56
I'm going to uh kind of walk us through a little bit of it, get uh feedback from Emily and Jordy and Tyler and if we get anything wrong uh take it up with Tyler because he's the one that created this >> made this graphic.
9:07
So if there are any errors on it, >> you know where to go.
9:12
>> We have to start with the mainstream media.
9:14
What is the mainstream media?
9:16
Arguably the best I think it's the best stream >> because if you were to pick a stream to do media in, would you want to be in the main one or some alternative one?
9:23
We want to be in the mainstream.
9:24
Ideally, I think everyone is on the march to become the mainstream media.
9:28
But mainstream media is broken down into several subsections.
9:34
You have the legacy media and the traditional media.
9:37
>> And why don't you explain the difference because a lot of people would say they're the same thing, but >> a lot of it comes down to the aesthetics.
9:44
The aesthetics of you're seeing SIF fonts, >> the New York Times, the Washington Post.
9:50
When you go over to Fox News, BBC, CNN, you're getting you're you're you're getting something that feels like it is fighting for its life. >> It looks like TV. >> It looks like TV. It looks like TV.
10:00
I need a little bit more on my Oh, my my lab is really doing a number. Here we go. Okay. Is that better? Can you guys hear me? Okay.
10:10
I got I got really caught up on >> this.
10:13
This is your Sam Hyde bit. Sam Hides talk. >> Yeah. >> You know, you know. >> Okay.
10:17
So, so, uh, there is a continuum of, uh, there's a gradient that exists between legacy and traditional.
10:22
Uh, CNBC right in the middle.
10:25
You have Forbes, you have the Financial Times, and you can kind of tell that as you get towards Business Insider, CNN.
10:31
You're more in the legacy world.
10:34
>> You're kind of in the danger zone.
10:35
>> You're in the danger zone.
10:35
Uh, David Ellison might be kind of licking his chops, saying, "Oh, maybe I'll take you over at some point."
10:42
uh David Ellison, he's not going to make a play for the Wall Street Journal, for the Washington Post, for the New York Times.
10:47
Part of traditional means that you can actually get it via newspaper, right?
10:51
Or >> yes, yes, that is key. So >> that's a factor.
10:56
>> A lot of people will will put the split divide of like your new media if you have a blog, >> right?
11:01
>> Or your legacy media if you print it out.
11:03
Um, but we forget that there is a whole host of of mainstream media outlets that do not print out their work.
11:12
They do not ship a newspaper.
11:12
And so most of the newspapers you'll see the Wall Street Journal, the Washington Post, the New York Times, those are in the traditional media.
11:19
Economist, >> yes, the Economist, another one, Atlantic. Yes.
11:22
Uh, so this is really the heart and soul, the beating the beating pulse of the mainstream media.
11:26
But you also have offshoots from each of these areas.
11:31
So you have the post travel about postrad and why I see this little number right here. Bloomberg.
11:37
>> Bloomberg is moving over into postrad media.
11:40
Obviously that's on the back of Tracy Aloway uh Joe Weisenthal with the OddLots podcast.
11:44
You can think of that as the classic posttrad media. What? >> And Tracy. >> Yeah, I said Tracy. >> Oh, you did.
11:51
Yeah, Tracy Allow and Joe Weisenthal at the Oddlocks at the OddLocks podcast are a great example of posttrad media where they they come from traditional media but they have been so early to the podcasting game.
12:03
They're what a decade in, isn't it? A decade.
12:05
So they're a decade into that.
12:07
Uh and so >> Bloomberg was really an experiment, you know, from Michael Bloomberg to to what if I could just be the news?
12:15
What if I could create the news? Yes.
12:17
maybe some frustrations with traditional media and you know saying why not me right? >> Yes. Yes.
12:23
And so you can see him like he's slightly less traditional than the New York Times >> but uh but still you know >> kind of in that in that postrad region.
12:33
>> Um >> we also have uh proto media and I'm not exactly sure why dig and hacker news wound up there.
12:38
uh more just like early online efforts that weren't really trying to play in these weren't these weren't trying to be traditional media corporations, media organizations.
12:47
They weren't telling a story about being new media in any way.
12:51
Uh they were sort of the pro >> but you could almost put Reddit here.
12:55
We're missing Reddit in some ways, but Reddit was trying to be the front page of the internet to kind of curate stories. >> Yeah.
13:01
I mean, you could probably go all the way up here and add social media and Tik Tok and stuff, but we want to stay on the media outlets, the folks who who um who really proclaim that they are the media, right?
13:10
And so, over here we have the post legacy media, and this is a crew of former legacy media folks who have now ventured out into Substack and YouTube, >> Substack and Substack.
13:25
>> Would you argue that a few years ago, Barry, like the free press would have been there, too, and moved I think I think Barry's way down if I remember correctly.
13:33
She's in more of the legacy new media.
13:36
She was new media, >> but now she's in the legacy new media bucket.
13:41
>> So, so you're So, if you're what are these guys? Post legacy.
13:44
So, so post legacy is where you were up until recently like or traditional media.
13:52
If you worked for the legacy media in the 2020s like Alex Heath at Verge, which isn't exactly legacy media, but uh at Forbes Legacy Media and obviously Bloomberg with Ashley Vance.
14:04
Um if you were working with the legacy media, uh you you didn't jump ship in the 90s, you didn't jump ship in the 2000s, you didn't jump ship in the 2010s, you rode it all out >> the mid 2020s.
14:16
>> And in the mid2020s, you were like, "Okay, this legacy media thing isn't working for me anymore. I got to go out."
14:21
That's where we got Ashley Vance and Bloomberg here.
14:23
So, this kind of crossover. >> Yes. Yes. Yes.
14:25
But the free press, the free press, Barry left the New York Times uh famously, you know, crazy dust up and that was in the pre post legacy media era. >> Right.
14:37
Right before that started. Yeah. Exactly.
14:39
So, she used to be in the new media bucket. Yes.
14:42
>> But current now she sits in the legacy new media >> and that's because there's a whole new wave of new media.
14:46
And so, Andre Horowitz is is leading the charge here.
14:50
They have a team that is just called new media which of course asked the question what were they doing before >> which was their marketing team. >> Yes.
14:58
So they were doing media.
14:58
It's not like they just started doing media.
15:00
No they just started doing new media.
15:02
Their old media is now known as legacy new media.
15:08
And so legacy new media also includes the information buzzfeed wired vice organizations that came out and said we are going to be doing the new media thing but they said that a decade ago and so now it's a little bit legacy.
15:21
Then you also have of course alt media.
15:23
Vice kind of bridges these two gaps.
15:23
You have the trappings of a new media organization but with a little sharper edge.
15:30
Over here you get into the darker media.
15:32
get the Sam Hyde, the the the Curtis Jarvin's, the Passage Press.
15:35
Of course, uh we still haven't figured out where Feed Me goes.
15:40
We'll do that at the end.
15:42
We'll do this at the end, but we can move over to Neo Alt Media.
15:47
>> You have the Adam Freedellands. >> Yes.
15:48
So, you still have some of the some of the edgginess, some of the Rebel spirit of your Vice magazines, your Red Scares, but uh obviously newer products, newer media products launched more recently.
15:59
Then you also have new media with the NU.
16:01
That of course is media that covers new metal.
16:03
So anyone who's if you're writing a blog about Limp Biscuit or POD or Slipnot, >> that obviously goes in the new media.
16:13
>> So if you were to if you were to build kind of like the free press for corn fans, you would go in new media. NU, not New media.
16:22
>> And of course, we have to talk about the postc corporate media category.
16:24
Chapo Trap House obviously fitting in there.
16:29
It's a very funny choice to put that there, but uh obviously anti-corporate uh sometimes socialist, sometimes communist, sometimes left-wing.
16:37
Uh but distinctly anti-corporate.
16:40
You're not going to run a lot of ads on a post-corporate media property.
16:44
Uh then you have >> you might curse some people, you might hire some people.
16:51
>> Yeah, that's that's possible.
16:51
Uh now we do have the postneo media.
16:53
So as you think you think traditional media, legacy media, regular media, new media, neo media is the newest >> neotrad post neo media.
17:06
You can think of it as the most accelerated, the most aggressive, the final, the most cuttingedge media properties that are out there. We have Martin Skrey.
17:13
He just turns on a live stream.
17:15
It doesn't >> He goes for hours and hours and hours and hours.
17:20
>> It's not a media company.
17:20
It's not a It's not a TV show.
17:21
It's >> And he's moving He's moving markets, right? Exactly. Exactly.
17:24
Uh then you have I show speed and Mr.
17:27
Beast other examples of neo postneia creators.
17:28
Uh you of course have had the expert media sphere with Andrew >> Hubman Freedman AI expert Joe Rogan UFO expert Andrew Hubman of course >> and then we have the neoactual media uh more of the analysts focused on uh the actual truth one of the the the really the only truth seeeking organizations on the map in general. Uh where are we?
17:54
Let's move over zoom out to so traditional media we know >> traditional media you're printing things out you're making traditional content you're instantiating your ideas in traditional ways and the neotrads are doing this in a new way and so
18:09
>> this is new media that cosplays as traditional media >> exactly >> so that's TVPN right it it it has some of the aesthetics of an ESPN >> but it looks and feels >> Good job guys >> thank you to the production team I'm glad you guys like the show. Good. Um, Good.
18:23
Um, >> and so Colossus is another good example here.
18:29
They're obviously Neo, you know, if you look on this map, what is Colossus?
18:32
There was debate last week, right?
18:34
We, this is part of what started the debate. >> What is Colossus?
18:36
Are they writing profiles?
18:38
You know, is is this journalism?
18:40
And we just immediately thought this is obviously, you know, neotrad media.
18:44
There's no other way to look at it.
18:45
This is traditional print media reborn for the modern era. >> Yes.
18:50
and and specifically the you wind up getting a lot of attention in neotrad media from the old media from the mainstream media from the legacy media because you are wearing traditional media clothing.
19:04
So Arena magazine physically printed out squarely between Postr and Neotrad.
19:11
>> And so if you are the editor of Forbes or Fortune magazine, Fortune magazine has done a cover story on Josh Kushner.
19:22
Colossus magazine just did a cover story on Josh Kushner and they printed it out and it's a physical magazine and so it feels much more like a direct attack and a comparable product as opposed to if Colossus was just a Substack.
19:34
The editor of Forbes, the editor of Fortune, they would be able to say, "Well, that's just a Substack.
19:42
What makes us special is we print ours out and mail."
19:45
>> Would you ever do a daily print uh newspaper? >> Daily print? I don't think so.
19:48
But I would do I would do weekly daily print.
19:53
It's there's so many hands involved and like material getting geofenced it to New York Manhattan.
19:58
You could have little people in feed me outfits, right? >> Yeah.
20:01
Or I guess the other thing people do, I don't know if you guys remember this paper during COVID called the drunken canal, which was like a downtown gossip paper that they put in the news newspaper stand boxes around the city.
20:13
>> But that was maybe four times a year or something.
20:15
But that was really fun because you couldn't really find the content online.
20:18
It created some tension around discovery.
20:21
>> They're going to publish. >> Yeah.
20:23
>> Um, so then we have neoccorporate media.
20:26
These are like o obviously from a corporation that does something that's not media.
20:30
You have the AWS developer tools blog.
20:32
Let's give it up for them.
20:34
Some of the greatest content.
20:34
Uh, you have the OpenAI podcast, uh, Cheeky Pint, uh, which sort of dresses up as Neotrad in many ways, but also is fully owned and operated by Stripe, a corporation.
20:46
Uh then you have the neo conglomerate media.
20:48
This is whatever David Ellison is working on.
20:50
We believe >> we forgot we forgot we could have added UFC as part of this new >> Neo conglomerate.
20:58
We also have the East Coast. >> Always update it.
21:01
>> Yeah, the East Coast Underground.
21:01
You'll have to explain everything in this section.
21:05
>> Yeah, we weren't familiar with this.
21:07
>> You guys know New York magazine. Come on. >> Well, yeah.
21:09
From the Andrew Hubman uh >> is that the New Yorker magazine? >> No.
21:14
>> Is that the New York Times magazine? >> No.
21:16
Is that the New York New Yorkers New York magazine?
21:20
>> New Yorker is part of Nast. >> Okay. >> Okay.
21:23
>> New York Times magazine is part of >> the New York Times. >> Correct.
21:26
And New York Magazine is something else.
21:28
>> Who's it own by >> and it's is it supported by like the city?
21:31
>> It's under It's under Vox.
21:33
>> We should nationalize it. Mongani. Let's let's do it. >> Yeah.
21:36
That I mean that's a big one.
21:36
You guys should probably know about that one.
21:38
I feel like I feel like I love New York magazine because to come out of a magazine like the New York Times already has a magazine and the New Yorker has a magazine and you're just like, you know what, New York needed a magazine.
21:47
That's something that we would say. >> It's the best one.
21:50
That's the one where I worked. >> Yes.
21:52
>> Um >> it does seem cool.
21:52
And I feel like uh when you hit see a New Yorker a New York Mag profile, it is great.
21:57
>> Oh my god, it's great.
21:59
>> Yeah, they have their own special flavor that's not quite the New Yorker.
22:00
It's not quite the New York Times magazine, >> right?
22:04
It's the New York It's New York Magazine.
22:06
>> New York Mag and Y Mag. Um, okay.
22:06
So, why are why why are these so >> you guys have never heard Okay, you've heard of Puck because you've been on Dylan's podcast, >> but Tyler, our intern, has not heard of Puck and he's heard of all of these other >> You haven't heard of Hellgate?
22:19
You wouldn't know about that's more of like a New York leftaning >> Tyler, do you know? >> No. >> Okay. Do you know Status? >> No.
22:30
>> Status was started by Oliver Darcy.
22:30
So, I And he came from CNN, I believe.
22:32
So, like we should move him maybe over there.
22:35
Something that's interesting that's happening is some people are logos and some people are faces. >> Yeah.
22:40
>> Like you guys chose to put TBPN as your logo. >> And I'm I'm curious.
22:46
>> I'm happy that Feed Me is not my face and it's my logo.
22:49
>> We want the brand to to to grow.
22:51
>> But Feed Me is starting to become more of a platform >> platform company. >> Bingo. >> Yeah. I would >> Yeah.
22:57
>> We we for we left off Punch Bowl. Punch Bowl. >> Oh, Punch Bowl. Yeah.
23:00
I mean, they're Ax Politico, right? >> Okay.
23:03
So I what what I'm actually hearing is that East Coast Underground is really sort of a further posttrad post legacy.
23:11
Maybe they're po uh post legacy.
23:14
>> Yeah, I think a lot of them are post legacy.
23:15
I think the difference between them and like an Alex is a lot of them have raised like tens of millions of dollars to get their things off the ground.
23:24
>> But so they're thinking less independent media.
23:26
>> We needed a category for heavily VCbacked. >> You really do.
23:30
You really do because we're going to be watching how those play out in the next few years or months. >> Yes.
23:35
Well, are there any are there any major major corrections that you think we should make?
23:39
Do you think we got any of this wildly wrong? >> I um No.
23:42
I I mean, it's really interesting that you guys the East Coast Underground thing because those are the publications that people are like >> ringing their hands.
23:54
Is that the like going crazy over in New York City? >> Sure.
23:58
And maybe your audience is >> I definitely think these folks need to be over here. >> Yeah.
24:04
I think we can redistribute the underground. >> Yes.
24:07
>> Because you you can basically see it goes like >> I mean New York mag more tech here and then politics is kind of running through this way but then over here you have some tech and then over here you have some tech. >> Yeah.
24:20
Those can be sort of redistributed >> next to each other.
24:23
>> Status I would call post legacy but >> Okay.
24:25
But it's almost like there there's some difference because these were started five t years ago. Correct.
24:30
Like Puck is not this year.
24:33
Puck didn't start this year.
24:36
>> Puck started uh I think like three years ago. >> Oh, three years ago. Okay. That is pretty recent.
24:41
>> Not quite as recent as 20 million.
24:43
>> It's not quite as recent.
24:44
>> And they also just acquired airmail which was Graden Carter sort of. >> Can you hit this?
24:46
Can you hit the gong for puck for raising 20 million?
24:52
But >> but but the big story with Puck right now is that they just acquired airmail. >> Okay. >> Um >> where's that?
25:04
>> Gradon Carter, the great editor of Vanity Fair. >> Okay, >> there we go.
25:08
So he's airmail in the post legacy media.
25:12
>> Airmail is something else. It I mean it still is.
25:14
It's still in existence, but it's sort of like >> you go it's it's very luxury.
25:19
So it's like this is what happened in this um resort in Sweden.
25:24
Uh this is like the crazy like thousandword story about it and every you know sort of 20 words there's a big Hermes ad. So it's like >> amazing. >> Yeah. But it's subscribers.
25:41
>> Zach Meyer in the chat says I think this needs to be three-dimensional to better illustrate the >> I agree. I agree. >> Okay.
25:48
Well, that concludes >> Well, I'm glad we could clear up the media landscape because there's been so much debate lately and sometimes you need to, you know, expand in order to really help.
25:57
Uh, >> I mean, we were joking about this being completely skitso, but I think we have something.
26:03
>> Yeah, we got to add bar stool.
26:03
Okay, let's make some notes.
26:04
We'll do a V2 before we release the next the next iteration, but we'll get something there.
26:09
Uh, let's go through the mansion section.
26:11
I want some uh advice on what is a buy, what is a sell.
26:14
Before we do, let me tell you about reream. com.
26:19
One live stream 30 plus 30 plus destinations multiream will reach your audience wherever they are.
26:23
Um well uh you said you said that you were interested to talk about Carl Icon's uh NYC penthouse. Is that correct?
26:30
Are you familiar with >> Carl Icon Pasta at the restaurant?
26:32
I think it's like two blocks from his house. Yeah.
26:37
>> There's this restaurant called um >> I think it's called Iltanelloo.
26:39
It's an Italian restaurant and they have like a $20 Carl icon pasta.
26:42
I looked this up recently. >> 20. >> Yeah.
26:47
Because it's not exciting.
26:47
It's like >> it's like a very simple pasta, but he ordered it a lot.
26:54
>> So, I think one of the things if you buy there, you can sort of like always take friends to that place and sort of get into Well, you know who who used to own my apartment? >> Who? >> Carl Icon.
27:04
Like you could do that every time. >> Oh. Oh, if you live there. Yeah. >> Yeah.
27:07
That's you know neighborhood.
27:07
You could have maybe renamed the pasta you learned if you moved there.
27:13
You know, >> Icon has also entertained numerous corporate giants at the apartment, including computer titan Michael Dell, Apple CEO Tim Cook, Netflix co-founder Reed Hastings.
27:24
He would extend he uh it is he he was hanging out with Dell. This is pretty fun.
27:30
Uh it's $23 million property.
27:32
Uh let me see >> how many square feet.
27:34
>> Uh >> people are liking the lifestyle news.
27:38
You guys should talk about restaurants more. We should.
27:39
Um, the apartment has views around the city, including Central Park, dramatic double height for has a circle staircase, uh, 23 250 units.
27:47
I'm not I'm not sure how big this is. Oh, okay.
27:53
It It is 14,000 square ft, and it's a combination.
27:56
Why is that Why is that sad?
27:58
That's huge for Manhattan. That's massive.
28:00
14,000 ft is the combination of three apartments that were purchased over 40 years.
28:05
And so he slowly built this like larger >> 56 or 53rd.
28:11
>> Does that make a difference?
28:13
>> Well, >> is that material?
28:14
Like would you know Manhattan that well to know? >> I would hope so.
28:17
I >> I would hope you know it that well.
28:20
>> I I know it that well.
28:22
>> I I I don't know the difference.
28:22
Uh so it is on uh the apartment at top Museum Tower on Manhattan's West 53rd Street spans the 51st and 52nd floors. It has 14,000. >> That's a buy.
28:34
>> You think that's a buy?
28:36
So, so Carl Icon has said Carl Icon has said uh the billionaire is unsure why his beautiful apartment on West 53rd Street hasn't found a buyer yet.
28:45
You think you agree with that take? It doesn't make sense.
28:49
Somebody needs to step up. >> Yeah.
28:52
>> Somebody will step up after this story, you know. >> Okay.
28:55
So, you could get 153rd Street 14,000t apartment or you could >> I thought they said in the story that >> I mean, so here here's the thing.
29:02
He had a Hindenburg research report on onire on his empire and so I think and Puck has an article here.
29:13
I just searched Carl icon fall off and Puck pulls up Carl icon on how to lose 20 billion.
29:18
So I think people don't want to buy the apartment because bad luck.
29:23
>> They're worried about negative aura.
29:25
>> But you call a priest, you call you get some sa sage, you just sort >> it up.
29:30
>> That's every apartment in New York.
29:31
>> So for 23 million it's it's fixable. You can make it work. Okay.
29:33
What about this Delmare beach house uh for $50 million?
29:38
This one was actually sold.
29:38
Uh I can hold it up here.
29:40
Uh a beachfront compound with a pingpong pavilion. Are you pro pingpong? >> Um sure. Yeah.
29:49
>> Rank these kind of fell off.
29:50
>> Rank these paddle sports.
29:50
Ping pong, padell, uh what's the other one called?
29:56
>> I don't like sports that were invented in >> and then tennis. So rank those four. Tennis is the top. >> Yeah. >> And then ping pong. >> Yeah.
30:03
And then >> padell and then pickle balls at the bottom. >> Yes. >> Pickle ball.
30:07
It just has a terrible name brand.
30:09
Like the word doesn't sound good.
30:11
Oh, here's the picture of the house. So, 50 million.
30:13
It has 6,000 square ft, seven bedrooms. How would you rank this?
30:19
I will keep I will keep giving you extra information.
30:22
>> Basically, Delmare Delmare is in San Diego County.
30:23
It is >> That's really not my kind of place, but No. >> Yeah. What's pulling?
30:28
>> It's kind of the Hampton of Los Angeles.
30:30
>> It's kind of a brutal view. >> Don't say that. It's kind of a brutal. Look how brutal. >> Better Hamptons. >> Don't say that.
30:35
>> Like if someone was like from first principles, let's just make the Hampton's better, they would come up with Delmare.
30:40
>> But look how brutal the view is from the pool.
30:42
You're >> I don't think this was the best photo they could have ran.
30:44
>> You can see the beach. Yeah.
30:47
>> Oh yeah, I can see the beach behind the staircase like through this little sliver here.
30:51
>> Oh, so so are you an infinity pool guy?
30:53
You want the you want the pool straight out to the ocean? Okay. Okay.
30:55
Uh well uh the seller is a limited liability company tied to Sandra Nather whose family has been major cattle ranchers over a century in Arizona, California, and Oregon.
31:08
Land land family land maxing >> land is an underrated asset.
31:14
>> Uh completed last year, the oceanfront compound first came on the market for 75 million.
31:19
Uh but the price has been reduced.
31:21
It finally sold for 50 million.
31:24
Uh the listing agent said it's a remarkable sale for San Diego coastal real estate agent.
31:28
The property includes a 4,500 foot main house. I agree.
31:34
>> Somebody would have to pay you quite a lot to live there.
31:36
>> It is crazy to >> That's not my kind of beach and that's not my kind of house.
31:39
>> It's crazy to get to get half the space and you're in Delmare, which is cool, but you're not in Manhattan.
31:43
You would think that Manhattan would just be more expensive and you're paying twice as much for half the space. >> Yeah.
31:49
>> I say take Icon's property.
31:49
That makes no sense to me. >> What else?
31:52
What about what about Hawaii?
31:54
What what's your take on Hawaii? >> Been ones.
31:57
>> It's the It's the Hamptons of the Pacific. Do you agree?
32:00
>> The only thing I'm curious about with Hawaii is I really want to visit a Zuck Ranch and meet those cows. >> Okay. >> Meet those cows.
32:09
>> You want to meet those cows specifically? >> Yes.
32:11
>> You don't just want to see how big the property is. The cows specifically.
32:13
>> I'm curious about what he's sort of doing there with the He's obsessed with like breeding the perfect cow.
32:17
Yeah, we missed we they had Zuck burgers at the MetaConnect event that we were live from and we missed we we we just got really busy podcast.
32:27
>> It's basically impossible to eat while you're streaming because you have to eat talk on the microphone.
32:32
>> None of them could have put one aside. >> You guys have any? >> Yeah. No, no, no one had any. >> Wow. Missed opportunity. >> Missed opportunity.
32:38
Uh so Katherine Conrad spent a a decade perfecting the gardens at her Honolulu home overlooking the ocean.
32:46
The estate has granite pathways that wind around a Carrera marble fountain.
32:50
I don't know what that is, actually.
32:52
An antique pergola cost about $40,000.
32:55
Her favorite view of the garden is at night when the cypress monkey pod and flowering Tacoma trees are illuminated.
33:04
>> She's trying to pitch the monkey pod as a feature, but sounds like a bug.
33:08
>> You have a monkey pod.
33:08
I guess that's like it's like a cat tree for >> people to visit you in Hawaii, too.
33:12
Like you have to >> the time the time zone is so brutal. >> Yeah.
33:17
Or you have neighbors you love maybe or you meet new friends.
33:19
But if you're if you're buying in California or New York, someone's always going to be in >> I also feel like as for the celebrities out there, it really puts a target on your back when anytime there's every time there's been like a natural disaster.
33:32
It's like oh the you know the rock >> took all our water.
33:35
Well, well that but there was the tsunami warning last year and they were getting really cancelled for that and then >> cancelled for the tsunami and then the fire.
33:43
Well, no, no, because apparently they had like private roads that that every you know everyday citizens were backed up in traffic trying to escape the tsunami and they they were >> not inclined to open their private road.
33:55
>> It's always going to be more controversial to buy in Hawaii. >> Yeah. Okay. So 8 of an acre.
33:58
Uh it was the first lot was bought for 7.
34:02
55 million then 4 million for the adjacent parcel.
34:06
So you put two two properties together around 11 million in land value then 12 million in renovation. They're asking 34.
34:16
Uh it's a fourbedroom 5,200 ft house. Ocean views.
34:20
It also has a Pilates studio.
34:24
Is that a feature for you?
34:27
>> I like to leave my house for Pilates.
34:29
>> You want to leave your house for Pilates.
34:30
So, at 34 million, are you buying or are you selling?
34:33
>> No, >> you're not buying. You're passing. >> Passing.
34:36
>> What about this house in uh Puerto Rico?
34:40
I I haven't been to Puerto Rico in a very long time.
34:42
Um before we move on, we got to do another ad.
34:46
Do you have the ads list? I don't have it today. Let me pull it up. Here we go. Uh sorry.
34:52
Privy wallet infrastructure for every bank.
34:55
Privy helps uh makes it easy to build on crypto rails.
34:57
securely spin up white label wallets, sign transactions, and integrate onchain infrastructure all through one simple API.
35:04
Um, >> so yeah, Puerto Rico was very much a thing >> during 2020. >> That is crazy.
35:13
>> See, they're invite they're saying come hang out.
35:16
>> I have a friend who Yes. Yes.
35:16
They want people to come visit.
35:18
I have a friend who would refer to that as a goolog >> because you you get all your boys to come and visit and hang out and they all sleep in in bunk beds.
35:25
You really could sleep like what 12 people there or something.
35:29
So this this mansion has 17,000 square ft, eight bedrooms, a basketball court, a pool.
35:34
Um it is uh for sale for $65 million. >> Is it in that zone?
35:40
I think I don't know if it's the Four Seasons or there's another uh there's another hotel company that has effectively set up a mini city in Puerto Rico. You know about this?
35:51
>> Uh there is information about the Ritz Carlton in here. Oh, it's the Ritz. Read it.
35:56
Uh, Simon said he and his wife had little intention to buy in Puerto Rico before stopping by the Ritz Carlton sales office in 2015.
36:02
They quickly became enamored with the idea of building a house there, buying a 1acre parcel of land on one of the community's golf courses.
36:10
The parcel overlooks the ocean.
36:12
It was completely impulsive.
36:12
Uh, there were a few false starts.
36:15
The phallics got the keys to the new home in 2017 just before Hurricane Maria hit, closing down the resort community and resulting in minor damage, water damage to the home.
36:25
Uh soon after the community recovered, CO hit.
36:27
Uh in recent years, the phallics have spent long weekends and holidays at the property as well as several weeks in the summer.
36:34
They are selling because their grandchildren are older and don't spend it much as much time on the property.
36:39
Um, Puerto Rico's luxury housing market has boomed in recent years thanks to tax incentives and the rise of remote work.
36:46
It's become very attractive.
36:49
>> They undid a lot of those incentives or they they you there's some people that are grandfathered in, but now they're just sort of trapped in in the Caribbean. >> Yes.
36:58
>> And so this is uh a lot in the Dorado Beach, which is a Ritz Carlton reserve resort. 65 million. Buy or pass?
37:07
um pass, but maybe try to get I don't know if those Disney posters are coming with the house, but I feel like the posters in the film room, you could flip those.
37:19
>> Yeah, split them off, you know, break it up.
37:21
Little >> break up big Puerto Rico, sell it for parts.
37:24
We got to give we got to talk about JP Morgan's new headquarters. Michael Dell shared it.
37:28
I have a post pulled up here. >> Oh, yes.
37:30
This is performance >> and I wanted to get your reaction to this uh this setup.
37:34
Can we pull up this post in the timeline?
37:39
>> It would be great to be able to pull up posts both in the timeline and there. That's the future.
37:44
>> Can we not pull it up there?
37:45
>> While we're pulling that up, let me tell you about Cognition.
37:46
They're the makers of Devon.
37:48
Devon is the AI software engineer.
37:50
Crush your backlog with your personal AI engineering team. >> All right.
37:53
Pull up this post from Litquidity.
37:56
>> And we'll put it on there.
37:56
We don't need to put it on the on the back screen.
37:58
We can actually just pull it on the uh >> Yep. >> Yep.
38:04
And while we're doing that, let me tell you about figma. com. Think bigger. Build build faster.
38:08
Figma helps design and development teams build great products together.
38:11
You can get started for free.
38:14
Um, >> did you see the What else is going on here?
38:20
Um, >> would you guys buy anywhere besides California? >> No. >> New York eventually.
38:27
>> California has so much.
38:27
I feel like I just want to like grow the map of places I go that are driving distance.
38:32
We're both We're both excited >> Santa Barbara. >> Yeah.
38:37
The Monaceto, but even Big Bear.
38:42
>> So, you just want to buy houses close to each other.
38:45
>> Well, >> houses that are less than an hour away from each other >> in in in California, in LA specifically, you can get in a car and in two hours be in a completely different biome.
38:53
Like, you can be in the desert or you can be in the ocean or you can be on an >> island.
38:58
So, here's they got video footage of the JPM analysts going to their new workstation.
39:04
Uh, this is a post from liquidity, but pull pull up the post from Michael Dell that shows the actual setup here and we need to rate my rate my office.
39:13
>> Did you guys hear that employees have to pay for the gym? >> What? >> At JPM? >> Why?
39:19
>> There was a story about it.
39:20
>> I mean, I guess that just people were not h I mean, employees were not happy about it.
39:24
They were like, why do we have to pay to go to this?
39:25
I guess it's just such a big organization that if you don't put some sort of limit, people will like kind of all flood right on January 1st or something.
39:35
>> And I'm sure that they have >> it's just kind of like a >> I'm sure that they have like a a health account or something to use towards it. >> Yeah.
39:42
Um so this is what peak performance looks like for sure. This is beautiful. >> I actually love this.
39:49
>> I saw this setup and I was and I thought I want to recreate this here. >> Oh 100%.
39:53
I'm down to be in the trenches. >> Yes.
39:56
This is what the trenches look like.
39:59
>> I like that they have the thing that new hotels have now where you just you have the outlets right there. >> Yeah. >> And the desks. That's nice. >> We're not chairs.
40:06
>> Imagine having add up numbers for you while sitting in that setup.
40:12
>> So, what I'm interested is like when was this taken?
40:14
Because I thought they worked hard.
40:17
>> I don't think that's a real photo.
40:17
That doesn't really look like a real person.
40:20
Michael Dell just posted this and said, "Congratulations, JP Morgan, on opening your new headquarters."
40:25
>> He sold him all the monitors because the monitors are Dell monitors.
40:28
>> I think this is a rendering. >> I don't think so. >> No way. This is real. >> I think this is real.
40:32
>> You don't think that jawline is possible?
40:33
That's That's pure power. >> I don't know. I don't know.
40:37
I have to see it for myself. I emailed their team.
40:40
>> Even Michael Dell replied to his own post and said, "We're monitoring the situation." >> Yeah.
40:44
You don't do that on some slob.
40:44
I think they finished building out the office.
40:48
Michael, >> this looks like slop.
40:50
Um, >> look at those beautiful Dell monitors.
40:55
>> I will fight you on this.
40:55
This is This is >> I want to go.
40:57
Maybe that's where my shoot is.
41:00
>> That is where your shoot is. This is the spot.
41:01
Uh, we were hop skipping a jump from the people that will actually >> I need to go.
41:06
I need to see I need to see it for myself. >> Yes. Yes. Yes. >> Okay. >> Um, building. Have you seen it?
41:14
>> Last thing we have to No. >> It's beautiful.
41:16
Oh, it's a whole new building and and it has like crazy LED at the top, right?
41:19
It has a crazy light show. >> There's like uh rock.
41:22
There's like a big story about like the rocks that they brought in to >> Dwayne the Rock Johnson.
41:27
They should bring him in, have him do it.
41:29
I I feel like when you when you set up a new uh a new fortress of finance, you should have like an inaugurable an inaugural lock in you should bring in like a like Warren Buffett should come and like lock in and and type the first row in a spreadsheet and be like yes like we've opened the office.
41:49
Jaime Diamond himself has come and and and done and written the first cell of the spreadsheet and now the office is open for business.
41:56
It's like it's like smashing a a bottle of wine across a boat. >> I like that.
42:02
>> You know, you need to christen a new office.
42:04
>> Let's pull up this post from none other than the New York Post, which I don't think they made it on the media landscape, but mobsters ran rigged poker games at Kylie Jenner's Lux NYC pad while she still owned it.
42:15
Apparently, uh Travis Scott also was was on the owned owned a piece of it, too.
42:26
Uh what what's going on here?
42:26
You you think this all ties back into the uh to the whole >> Isn't this part of the story that came out yesterday about >> I just got an email from you 19 minutes ago.
42:36
You're sitting right here. >> It's crazy, right? >> It's crazy.
42:39
>> Um isn't this part of the story with the NBA gambling?
42:41
Like the there >> I haven't been following this too closely. >> Yeah.
42:45
The the the headline yesterday on the Times about the NBA coach gambling, there was in the headline it also mentioned mafia.
42:52
So, unless there's two mafia poker rings going on, which is totally possible in a city like New York.
42:58
Um, I think they're connected.
43:01
And I I wrote about it yesterday and one of my readers emailed me.
43:03
I'm not going to say who it was. >> Sure.
43:07
>> But he was like, "If you want to talk about this, I was there.
43:08
The game was held at gunpoint." >> What?
43:13
>> If you want to talk about it. And I said, "Sure."
43:14
And then he sent me the neighborhood.
43:16
>> What is game held at gunpoint?
43:16
Like someone's forcing you to play poker.
43:20
>> Well, you guys don't play poker. Sometimes that happens.
43:22
>> What do you mean that happens? >> Guns, drugs.
43:25
>> But but but in what scenario? >> Mafia.
43:28
>> But but under under what conditions am I like I'm really enjoying playing poker with you, so you will die if you don't >> I think it's more like >> they're just having so much fun. >> Yeah.
43:36
You do a little You have a little too much fun and somebody like pulls something out they're not supposed to pull out and >> Mhm. >> Yeah.
43:43
I've never had a gun at a poker game, but I've heard >> This is why I'm not leaving California.
43:48
This this New Yorker, you know, seems crazy to me.
43:51
>> There's none of this here.
43:52
>> This is this is not >> There's a post here on the on the sports gambling arrest.
43:55
Mike over on X with 2 million views on this post.
43:58
The NBA is very concerned about the multiple arrests made as a result of the FBI sports gambling raid.
44:04
Use codes multiple arrests for a 30% profit boost on a three-legg parlay with DraftKings, the official gambling partner of the NBA. >> I love it.
44:13
I am glad that people are still playing poker in person as opposed to just only playing online. That's good.
44:19
>> That's kind of a white pill for sure. >> Um touching grass. >> Yeah. Touching chips.
44:24
I used to have a poker podcast. >> Really? >> Yeah.
44:27
It was called chips and dip and it was about poker and chips. Like potato chips. >> Potato chips. Yes.
44:32
>> Were you Were you like a good poker player? >> I am.
44:34
I was uh my ex was like a good poker player and then our friend the third guy is also very good and he's borderline addict. Hm.
44:43
>> He's a gambling addict. Cool. >> Good luck to him. >> He's doing okay.
44:45
He might start writing about poker.
44:48
>> He should go work at a hedge fund or something.
44:50
>> Yeah, >> put it to work >> for sure.
44:52
>> Uh he should go lock in.
44:52
He should He should do the inaugural gamble.
44:54
The first gamble at the new the new Morgan Stanley HQ.
44:58
It's Morgan Stanley, right? >> Uh no, it's JPM. >> Oh, it's JPM. Okay. JPM. Yes. Yes. Yes.
45:05
The the the first the first fat finger trade. Uh this is important.
45:07
Uh anyway, thank you so much for stopping by.
45:11
>> Thanks for having me, guys. Blast.
45:13
>> We know we have to get you.
45:13
You have to get out of here. >> Really fun.
45:16
Gotta go to the Hammer Museum. >> Breaking.
45:18
She will be >> the hammer museum.
45:19
I didn't know >> this is live.
45:21
Can go by and and say, "Oh, play." >> Don't say that. >> Be careful. >> Okay. Bye, guys. >> Bye. >> Great hanging. >> Great. >> Cheers.
45:31
>> While we rearrange the seats, let me tell you about Vanta. com. Automate compliance. Manage risk.
45:36
Improve trust continuously.
45:38
Vantis trust management platform takes the security and compliance process manual work out of your security compliance process and replaces it with continuous automation.
45:47
Uh Alex Heath says Snap is in talks to raise at least 1 billion for AR glasses multiple investors involved including Saudi Arabia's sovereign wealth fund.
45:57
Plan is to move specs into a new independent subsidiary subsidiary >> spinning it out >> and structure similarly to Whimo and Alphabet.
46:05
I want to get Evan on the show so badly.
46:07
I think it would be a very fascinating conversation. >> We're working on it. It will happen soon.
46:13
>> Who uh Samsung just launched a Vision Pro competitor, right?
46:16
Samsung uh Galaxy XR, the headset.
46:19
Uh so so they're and and Google's announcing it today. This is 16 minutes ago.
46:26
Um, the Samsung Galaxy XR is power powered by Android XR and it's supposed to be >> basically at the Apple Vision Pro level in terms of Fidelity, I think.
46:39
Um, but they obviously have a YouTube app because it's a, you know, a uh a Google partnership.
46:48
And so you on on day one they have a lot more partners because Android's been kind of a better steward to the developer community than Apple.
46:59
And I think a lot of a lot of the a lot of the obvious developer partners that would go and build apps for the Apple Vision Pro are taking a wait andsee approach because they um don't want to they want to have more leverage over Apple instead of just showing up and being like, "Okay, I'm I'm going to be paying the Apple tax on on day one."
47:18
uh they're saying, "Hey, like why don't you go get the audience first, Apple?
47:24
Make sure that there's actually a 100 million DAUs of this thing like the iPhone before I build an app for this."
47:33
>> Um, >> speaking of smart devices, Coler, the toilet manufacturer, is making a new toilet camera that provides health insights based on your bathroom breaks, >> which is insane because >> Throne, you know, the startup Throne is doing this.
47:47
I really thought nobody would >> do.
47:51
No, nobody would go and comp.
47:51
I thought it was like an insane idea. >> Yeah.
47:55
>> But at least no one else would go and compete.
47:58
And then Coler, you know, obviously a a >> major manufacturer decided uh I'm I'm sure they were somewhat inspired by Throne. Yeah.
48:06
>> Uh to go get into the game of uh uh toilet cameras, health tracking.
48:10
So, we'll see how this plays out. >> It's very funny.
48:15
Uh let me tell you about graphite.
48:16
dev dev code review for the age of AI graphite helps teams like GitHub ship higher quality software faster and get started for free.
48:21
Um, >> uh, Gabriel is posting there was there was an article from the Times that said female spies are waging sex warfare to steal Silicon Valley secrets.
48:35
>> This is this is a funny story from the Times.
48:37
This is this the Times of India?
48:39
I I think it's the Times of India, but um the this has been the meme of like the the CCP spy girlfriend and and and we sort of the times of London. Okay.
48:49
So, we we had a whole there are a lot of different timeses.
48:52
Um >> there are a whole bunch of different uh like iterations of that of that viral concept of like is is the girlfriend a spy?
49:03
And then the backlash to like, well, you shouldn't judge the girlfriend because she might be a spy and going back and forth, back and forth on that.
49:10
Uh, so it's interesting that the Times of London, is this just something where Europe takes two months to get to the current thing on Axe?
49:16
Because this this is a this is an article that literally just says what Axe was talking about four months ago, right? >> Yeah.
49:26
I think that I mean, this is new been an ongoing thing.
49:28
I think uh maybe what they've discovered and uh you know we we're not factual media so we don't need to get into kind of the truth here but uh they're saying uh some of these spies are even marrying and having children with their targets which is in >> really >> you know what a good uh have you seen the Americans?
49:48
That's a great great TV show. The Americans is great.
49:51
It's Atlas says, "Geez, I would sure hate for a beautiful Chinese spy to wage sex warfare against me for my production secrets.
50:00
My production secrets are super important.
50:02
I would hate for this to happen."
50:04
>> Did he go mega viral for this? Yeah. >> 15,000 likes. He got the response. >> That's great.
50:10
>> Uh Near has go been going on its hair highlighting Andre backed companies.
50:12
Uh >> and there's definitely some that are specifically speedun.
50:19
are a 16Z speedrun companies which is under Andrew Andrew Chen >> and it's more of a it's more of an incubator or accelerator.
50:25
It doesn't have the same weight as like a David George came in with the growth team and like actually like did some analysis.
50:32
It's like ripping but it but it's out, you know, it's out of their their speedrun run by Andrew Chen.
50:38
>> Uh and uh yeah, so this one is Cheddar.
50:41
It's the tick tock of sports wagering. Okay.
50:44
>> Unlike other platforms, they allow players under 21 and in 46 days.
50:46
Wait, is this is this from a deck or from their website or something?
50:53
>> I think this this is from the speedrun.
50:54
>> How did Near find this?
50:56
>> I think this is from the speedrun website. >> This is ridiculous.
50:58
Okay, wait, there's another one.
51:01
I need to talk about double speed.
51:03
I need you to like explain this to me.
51:06
The the the founders in the chat going back and forth in the replies.
51:09
So, Near says, "A16Zback double speed lets you control thousands of social media accounts with AI, ensuring they look as human as possible."
51:17
quote, "Never pay a human again.
51:20
Control is all you need."
51:20
I can imagine some Oh, I mean, I was I was about to steal man this, but it's really hard.
51:28
I I like I can imagine that puppeteering a thousand devices might be useful for something or other in like a data generation.
51:38
So double speed I think they're trying to position it as this is an alternative to influencer marketing but it does look and feel more like an influence operation.
51:47
So I would be this is the kinds nation states typically take this kind of thing on where they build you know a phone farm.
51:59
>> This feels like bot farming.
51:59
It feels very much against the t the terms and conditions.
52:03
conditions. the other one that was >> wait hold on but like Near went through this whole flow where where Near is is is just quoting them which is interesting because Near's not really dunking here like near is just saying A16Z back double speed lets you control thousands of social media accounts with AI it's
52:21
basically just the same as what's on their website copy the uh one of the founders or the employees automating attention at double speed Zuhair Lani uh chimes in and says let me know when you sign up we can help if you grow your company Orin and Near says it wants me, it wants to charge me 5K before I try it. It seems Zuhair says, "Sorry, we
52:39
It seems Zuhair says, "Sorry, we don't do free trials.
52:41
Let me know if you have budget to allocate and we'll get you onboarded."
52:45
Uh, Day says, "You can do 2,000."
52:47
Uh, Zu Hair says, "Yes, join our Discord."
52:50
Um, but the founder, I wait, is it is this is this is a founder of Speedrun Cohort 5?
52:57
I don't know if it's the founder.
53:00
Bessard Copa says uh um so people are calling this like morally lame and impoverished and Bessard Copa says how so there are already a million bot farms around the worlds they wre havoc on our elections not so long ago shouldn't the best ones be built in America and pioneer the latest tech and rules to govern it?
53:22
>> Wait, so he's saying they have wre havoc on the world but so we should build it in America? >> Yes. Yes.
53:28
It's basically like Oh yeah, you know how I would like double speed I think double speeds should pivot to being a defense tech company and just work with our government to run foreign operations. This is good.
53:40
>> America has such a long history of running, you know, various influence operations in in faroff regions of the world that >> spam from first principles.
53:49
>> Here's here's another one.
53:49
Uh Edgar is bringing real money engagement into free-to-play sweep stakes, America's number one social casino for slot lovers. These are insane.
54:01
>> I can't believe this is real.
54:01
I had to go check the speed.
54:04
>> It is wild comparing these to uh the the Nad Freriedman cohort that he did which Julius was a part of. Julius. ai.
54:10
What analysis do you want to run?
54:12
Chat with your data and get expert level insights. What was that?
54:17
Uh >> there's so so the last one we have to cover is covered which is bet on your bills only fans. This is so dark. I can't even. >> What is this?
54:29
>> Bet on your bills with covered.
54:32
>> Only fans, child support, and last night's Uber.
54:34
Wipe them from your credit card by playing your favorite casino games.
54:39
All from the comfort of our app.
54:41
No VPN, no crypto deposits.
54:44
>> And so my only my my reaction here, I mean, John, you're going to be impressed by this.
54:47
6 million views on this post and only 292 likes.
54:55
so bad that it means that someone like nuclear ratioed them.
55:02
>> But I I mean such an insane missed opportunity to say bet on your debt, right?
55:07
Like they say bet on your bills. >> Yeah.
55:10
>> This is like bet on your own debt. >> Well, it's not debt.
55:13
>> This is potentially the most American >> because you've already paid it >> or maybe you're in debt.
55:19
>> No, but you're you can wipe them if you if you bet right.
55:21
you get them wiped from your state so bad.
55:23
It's so funny that just a just a quote tweet that's from from hero thousand faces that just says societal breakdown gets more likes with 30,000 views.
55:34
Like the like ratio is insane on this. Wow.
55:39
>> Trey says this is incredible.
55:39
Double your bills or nothing.
55:41
your bills or nothing. What's funny is like there was a guy who was uh a really cool and kind of funny designer who was designing stuff like this little modals and one of them was Apple Pay with a double or nothing button and people were
55:54
like oh that's really funny but like to see it actually productized is like oh like we we we were joking about that like >> yeah the interesting thing is you know a lot of these kinds of ideas kinds of apps end up being massive businesses but you don't typically see >> you venture funds backing them. They
56:12
They typically >> bootstrap.
56:15
Um but this is one of the this is one of the challenges of scaling a venture platform, right?
56:19
It's like you know there's tons of partners at Andre that probably would have passed on these deals but um you know individual partners have >> uh autonomy and they can do what they want.
56:32
Well, uh, stick to the infrastructure, baby. Go to turbo puffer. Search every bite.
56:37
Serverless vector and full text search bird from built from first principles on object storage. Fast, 10x cheaper. Extremely scalable. >> Did you see this? A gummy bear.
56:45
Basil says, "A gummy bear company casually dropping revolutionary battery technology for $25 on on Amazon.
56:51
The lightest ever of this capacity and pretending nothing happened is one of the funniest things of all time." So this is Haribo.
57:03
>> Yeah, >> I don't actually think this is Heribo.
57:04
I think this is a is >> someone's stealing the Heribo brand.
57:10
>> Well, they may may hopefully it's >> the gummy bear company.
57:13
>> So yeah, people are immediately wondering like is this real?
57:15
Uh is this actually the best power storage per dollar possible or per weight?
57:21
And so Michael went ahead and bought one and here's his findings.
57:26
He says its weight is 286 gram.
57:29
just a little bit over what they claim.
57:31
The capacity is 83 watt hours.
57:35
The printed printed on the battery, it says capacity 20,000 milliamp hours um or 77 watt hours.
57:40
So, I'm measuring in excess of what is what is claimed.
57:45
I think they're stating uh the voltage piece is what makes the battery capacity ne measurements nebulous, but watt hours don't have that issue.
57:53
And I'm getting better than claimed.
57:55
Minimum charging current of of 0.
57:57
5 of an amp less than this battery pack turns itself off.
58:00
Not able to recharge the battery via the built-in cable. That's weird.
58:04
So, overall, my conclusion is this battery is the real deal.
58:07
It meets the claim capacity and pretty much hits the weight spec. Wow.
58:11
So, maybe you got to go pick one of these up. Very, very funny post.
58:15
>> Uh Oracle just secured a $ 38 billion debt deal to finance two new data centers.
58:19
They said they couldn't leverage anymore.
58:21
They shouldn't, but they are not listening.
58:23
23 billion will go toward a Texas site and nearly 15 billion towards one in Wisconsin.
58:28
Ted Jang says, "Here we go.
58:31
The debt finance deals are coming."
58:36
>> We got Chase Lock Miller from Crusoe coming on the show in about an hour to break down his series E.
58:41
>> The star the the godfather of Stargate. >> Yes. Star-Lord. >> The Star-Lord.
58:45
Um Catrini put this out a bit ago according to Ted.
58:48
Something that has been a relative comfort in being able to stay long despite calls for an AI bubble so far has been the fact that most of the capex has come from cash cash flow.
58:58
You don't have a bubble really until the majority of the expansion is done on debt.
59:00
We have yet to see significant financing, but that absolutely should be something to watch.
59:06
On one hand, that leaves another leg of the trade.
59:08
Leveraging up still results in more money being spent.
59:10
On the other, it sets the stage for consequences of not realizing ROI that we haven't really had to contend with in the existing paradigm.
59:18
With Microsoft 10-year bonds trading at at a G-spread of three basis points, there's still a lot of room for the hyperscalers to issue debt or tap private credit to fund continued spending on AI.
59:28
However, this also induces a lot more fragility going forward.
59:32
Monitoring the share of AI capex that is financed rather than funded from cash flow is probably the most important aspect of determining exactly where we are in the cycle.
59:41
Again, there's there's been a number of players using debt.
59:43
XXAI has been using debt.
59:46
Meta's already tapped the debt markets.
59:48
Uh I feel like Satia just generally is a lot less inclined to uh to to lean in and lever up too much.
59:55
Um but uh there's a post here from Junk Bond investor says just offloaded some data center construction debt to his school teachers 401k.
1:00:10
Um, my father is a retired school teacher, so hopefully >> he didn't get burned here.
1:00:17
>> I have to be He's going to be a little frustrated with me if that if that ends up being the case.
1:00:21
But I'm sure that's happening.
1:00:23
Um, with uh Nextia, there's been a little uh a little chaos on that front.
1:00:30
Nexperia, the uh semiconductor company out of the Netherlands, uh they notified its J Japanese automotive customers that it may no longer be able to guarantee supply, triggering renewed concern about upheaval at the chip maker.
1:00:45
So, some chaos over on the European front.
1:00:48
Uh >> before we do the next post, let me tell you about Google AI Studio, the fastest way from prompt to production with Gemini, chat with models, vod monitor usage.
1:00:58
Uh, do you think they Everyone's talking about the AI bubble.
1:01:00
They never talk about the podcasting bubble.
1:01:02
Uh, maybe we should be getting some more attention.
1:01:06
Everyone's saying like, "Wow, TVPN is Feed Me.
1:01:08
These businesses, if they don't work out, if they don't deliver, the entire global economy will collapse." >> Well, no.
1:01:15
On a more serious note, we did hear uh of a podcast raising at a at a half half a billion dollar valuation that has uh that is burning money.
1:01:23
So that could that could be a sign >> that might be.
1:01:29
>> Um uh PY has a post here. Never change Masa. This guy rocks.
1:01:33
And it's a post that says SoftBank hunts for humanoid robot startups.
1:01:39
SoftBank's Masa Yoshi's son has long predicted a future where robots would outnumber people and take over many jobs from humans.
1:01:46
But some of SoftBank's bets in robotics over the past 10 years, such as robot company Pepper, have not panned out.
1:01:52
Now the company is renewing its robot ambitions, particularly in robots that resemble humans.
1:01:58
>> Can you imagine Brett Adcock reading this?
1:02:00
He's got to be just like, "Oh, let's go."
1:02:03
Like, I want to be the one.
1:02:06
Um, >> SoftBank up 172% year to date.
1:02:11
>> Does it feel like actually a bad time to invest in humanoid robots?
1:02:13
I don't think it feels like a bad time at all.
1:02:16
>> I think it I think it's probably true that Masa and SoftBank were too early in some of their robotics bets, right?
1:02:21
they bet really heavily, you know, a decade ago.
1:02:27
>> This feels like a great time to be building in humanoid robots or robots generally.
1:02:31
Um, there's a ton of there's a ton of interesting startups, 1x and there's smaller companies and there's supply chain stuff and it's like it it's one of those things where it's like are you more worried about being too early or being too late?
1:02:44
probably too early on the on the humanoid robot side because it they're they're not quite, you know, getting deployed profitably.
1:02:56
They're very much like research tools.
1:02:57
They get bought by researchers, you know, oneoff stunts here and there.
1:03:02
There isn't really um so there there's no customer that's just like, oh yeah, they're buying these like every month.
1:03:09
They're buying more and more and more because like they're actually, you know, seeing increasing returns to scale.
1:03:15
Yeah, there was that story last week about Tesla buying actuators from a Chinese firm, right? >> Yeah.
1:03:24
>> It was like a $675 million order, which to me signal that's the kind of move you make if you're actually trying to get things into production like in real time. >> Yeah.
1:03:33
>> Um or at least have product that people can order.
1:03:35
My my theory was that >> if they felt like they had more time, they might have done them themselves, right?
1:03:41
Um >> well our first guest of the show is in the reream waiting room.
1:03:44
Let me tell you about profound.
1:03:46
Get your brand mentioned in shutt reach millions of consumers who are using AI to discover new products and brands.
1:03:52
>> Be like MongoDB indeed. Docuine RAM.
1:03:56
>> Yeah, we have Sager and Jenny from Breaking Points. Sager, how are you?
1:04:01
>> Oh, it's great to see you guys. Thank you for having me.
1:04:03
>> Great to see you finally.
1:04:03
Only after uh a million text messages every morning back and forth on the AI apocalypse and political crisis have we actually just put it together that we should just hang out on the stream.
1:04:14
I really appreciate you taking the time. Um >> Oh, thank you. Thank you.
1:04:18
>> Uh give everyone like a quick shape of of the actual flow of the content like uh like the the proper fun of your business. >> Some credit.
1:04:28
He kind of created neotrad media which is which is a new which is a new framework we're working on which is new media that that sort of embodies or kind of looks and feels like the >> the so your show looks like a proper TV show.
1:04:42
You wear a suit and and so we call that neotraditionalist media neotrad media and we're firmly trying to do that. I love it.
1:04:48
And I and I will say one of the only reasons I am here is because both of you are bringing suits back to the bums of Silicon Valley.
1:04:53
And I know many of you are watching uh right now and you're Lululemon or Viori and you don't look cool.
1:05:00
You don't look better than John or Jordy or myself.
1:05:02
You all are billionaires. Buy a suit. Stop. Just stop it. >> Stop it. That's great.
1:05:09
I I I couldn't agree more.
1:05:11
Uh I think we're starting to have a small small effect, but it's but it's taking hold.
1:05:16
A lot of a lot of people that visit the Ultradome wear suits. >> Okay.
1:05:19
Well, uh I mean pretty pretty much like there are going to be tons of uh of AI folks, tons of tech people who are going to be dragged in front of Congress over this data center buildout.
1:05:27
I I think you clocked this correctly.
1:05:29
Uh but walk me through is this a thesis that came from you see this coming or you're seeing uh smoke signals already?
1:05:37
Walk me through your thesis of like how tech and the AI buildout runs on a collision course with the average American.
1:05:48
>> Yeah, the thing is guys and I really want to hammer this home for people who are watching because I uh you know shocker I think many people in Silicon Valley uh do live in a bubble.
1:05:55
One of the best parts of my job is I do genuinely >> is I interact and we'll return to bubble conversation by the way.
1:06:03
Uh but what what I get to do is not only interact with a lot of people who are normal in politics and I mean that at the very base level.
1:06:11
Not people who live in Northern Virginia.
1:06:13
The vast majority of my audience don't live in Washington DC.
1:06:18
Many are Uber drivers, hotel clerks, etc.
1:06:20
And I start to see bubbling stuff over the last 5 years over cost of living.
1:06:24
At the same time, I'm tracking the electricity story.
1:06:26
And it doesn't take a genius to pair that with data center buildout.
1:06:30
So one of the things that I really want to flag I think here on the show is that the coming data center collision at the heart of that is about electricity.
1:06:38
It doesn't have to be this way.
1:06:40
One of my favorite uh notes is there's an analyst I follow who was in China.
1:06:44
He had a very different uh view of the of this in in China even though of course you know they don't have democratic politics but of course they do have some level of democratic input is they said nobody's concerned here cuz electricity is cons is considered a solved problem.
1:06:57
We don't have a solved problem of electricity here in the United States and in fact worse you know our grid is aging and actually things are getting worse.
1:07:05
So with all of this capital expenditure in data centers you are seeing a literal finite resource competition especially in rural areas.
1:07:14
So Virginia the state where I live 40% of all of our power is consumed by data centers.
1:07:19
Oregon for example is some 33%.
1:07:23
To be fair to many of the AI people who are watching it's not all AI.
1:07:24
We are the hotbed, right, of of servers and Amazon and much of the federal government.
1:07:30
But the point is is that this is bubbling up at a very organic township level.
1:07:34
So from Arizona to Virginia, data centers actually had a a mention in our more recent gubanatorial debate.
1:07:41
Both the Republican and the Democratic candidate said that they wanted to do something about it.
1:07:46
There's Prince William County here in Virginia where this is an active live issue and the public is overwhelmingly against it.
1:07:52
the city of Tucson is moving.
1:07:54
And so if we see this continued capital expenditure go up and especially in more rural areas, we see headlines like 267% power increases for power bills in rural areas which are built near data centers.
1:08:07
Not to mention environmental concerns, etc.
1:08:10
That's when you're going to see people start to get dragged before Congress because >> Yeah. Go ahead. >> Yeah.
1:08:17
I I'm just curious what uh obviously every area, you know, people are not going to just watch a data center get built, you know, in their backyard and and not, you know, talk to their mayor or talk to the governor and and actually start a conversation in a debate and ultimately create policy around this.
1:08:35
Is there not some type of solution that would allow >> effectively allow data centers to pay a higher rate than everyday citizens and kind of make up the the difference?
1:08:43
I think it's a great idea.
1:08:46
Uh unfortunately, that's not how our power system works.
1:08:49
That the foundation of the United States is basically built on the fact that we're going to build this grid, this infrastructure, and we can all kind of consume the social benefits of it.
1:08:58
There are pieces of legislation, Jordy, of what you're talking about on the table, I think, in Oregon and in a few other states, but these are few and far between.
1:09:05
I also think we got to take everybody through the story of the last 25 years.
1:09:09
Again, with great respect to the audience I'm speaking to, you can't be Amazon and be the second largest employer in the United States and then in your shareholder meeting come out and say that we want to fire 600,000 people or at the very least not hire 600,000 fewer people.
1:09:25
These are people who watch their towns get decimated.
1:09:27
Then they watched Amazon.
1:09:29
I mean, Nomad Land, it's an Oscar-winning film about this, you know, this this uh >> I think what's challenging what's what's so challenging about this issue is that you have these massive infrastructure projects with massive spend and almost zero job creation. >> Exactly. Exactly.
1:09:50
>> Like like the plumbers and the electricians are going to are going to get paid and that's great.
1:09:52
But we've even heard stories of the plumbers and electricians being flown around on private jets because their skill set is so >> and so that's not going to get people.
1:10:03
But yeah, so if you if you're, you know, living in a in a little town and you're watching, you know, the the mega mega project get spun up and you're getting not not only, you know, no real benefit, you know, maybe uh maybe you get more slop in your trough every day, but >> uh it's maybe that's the point. Yeah, go ahead.
1:10:23
>> Can you maybe take me a click forward into uh let's assume the trend lines kind of continue, electricity prices go up, there's more it's more clearly attributable to data centers, etc. , etc.
1:10:35
Like how do the different political coalitions uh frame reframe themselves around this issue?
1:10:42
Like I imagine that there's a right-wing version of tech backlash that looks one way.
1:10:47
There's the abundance lib uh direction.
1:10:50
there's going to be the the actual socialist left and maybe they just say like no AI at all. Yeah. Right.
1:10:57
So like how do you see the different coalitions like grappling with what the the V2 of the messaging might be here?
1:11:05
>> There's going to be a horseshoe element here.
1:11:06
I think that the socialist left and much of the right is going to actually come in the same place of enough.
1:11:10
And so a lot of the socialist uh left is actually Bernie Sanders, I don't know if you guys saw this right before I came on the show, just called for a break up of open AI. So this is huge news.
1:11:20
He's the first US politician actually to do so.
1:11:22
Now, >> what is there to break up?
1:11:24
They have chat GBT and then they have a bunch of other things that are subscale.
1:11:29
>> How about a nonprofit profit arm or whatever the hell you guys can explain that? >> Yeah. Yeah.
1:11:32
I think Sam's like, I would love to break it up.
1:11:33
I'm actually trying to break it up.
1:11:35
I would love to just have a corp. Break me up. >> Yeah.
1:11:39
Is this some sort of like 4D chess and Sam's gotten to Bernie and told Bernie, "Hey, yeah, we we we need to break it up.
1:11:46
That's really popular messaging."
1:11:47
And he's like, "Yeah, >> you know, Bernie's probably, you know, he's picking from an old tool book, so we shouldn't too much."
1:11:54
>> He's basically just saying, "Let's pressure them.
1:11:55
Let's make sure we have more regulation." Right. >> Exactly. More regulation.
1:11:59
On the right, I mean, much of this is going to be about distrust of Sam and many of the tech guys themselves.
1:12:04
I mean, when you have these people outwardly bragging about mass job loss, mass societal uh creation, there's a lot of us who are like, "Yeah, do I want this guy who's introducing AI porn to be the most powerful person in the world?"
1:12:20
>> I mean, the challenge the challenge is that the the job loss like uh like vision is so good for fundraising because if if you know people are are like, "Hey, maybe I don't have a job in 10 years."
1:12:32
It's like, well, I want I want I want my money going into these companies, so at least I'll I'll have a chance at escaping the the permanent underclass. Question for you.
1:12:41
Social media went through, you know, and continues to go is like a perpetual backlash at this point.
1:12:48
People say they hate it, they don't like it, they say it's bad.
1:12:51
Uh many of those people still use it.
1:12:54
How uh do you think this this AI um development is different than that in that a generation will just log off and or or do you think it's it will be the same type of dynamic where people say they hate it, they're they're frustrated with the potential impacts of it, but uh they still line up.
1:13:17
>> That's a very astute observation and I think it's going to be somewhere in between.
1:13:20
And so actually Jordy, this kind of gets to the point of what I reacted to.
1:13:23
you put out a tweet about AGI and pornography.
1:13:26
And what I reacted to that is I was like, "Yeah, AGI is not coming, guys. What's coming is porn."
1:13:33
And what that means is the internet is just coming again.
1:13:35
And so, you know, I downloaded the chat GPT browser.
1:13:37
It's it's fine, you know. It's fine. Uh, it's it's a browser.
1:13:41
And so, it's a browser that's going to serve me.
1:13:43
I mean, literally, the ad read before I came in was about putting ads into chat GPT.
1:13:50
Wow, what a business model.
1:13:50
Somebody should have invented it already. They did.
1:13:53
It's called Adwords in 2003.
1:13:53
So, are we just competing for the exact same uh type of unit economics of screen time, of use of pornography, of the very same things which, as you said, Jordy, are making us miserable because that doesn't seem very cool to me.
1:14:08
And it also doesn't necessarily justify, let's say, 80% gain of the entire S&P 500 over the last 2025.
1:14:15
This is the stuff actually that I text John about literally every day when I'm like, "A bubble is coming. A bubble is coming. A bubble is coming."
1:14:21
bubble is coming." I think I I I think the steelman of like the the like the the minim the medium case or I don't know how to put it but it's like if I told you it's just like well yes like AI is not AGI you're not going to lose your job over it it's not going to kill anyone but uh it will help you do
1:14:37
research better it's better autocomplete it's this nice tool that'll help clean things up better spell check better grammar check you know fire it off and and and if you're like you're going to be you're going to be a little bit more more knowledgeable a little bit more performant, a little bit more efficient, and it's going to cost. We're going to
1:14:55
We're going to need to build some data centers, but we're not going to build, you know, so many data centers that we all lose our light and heating and AC.
1:15:01
I think that's that's a reasonable like abundance.
1:15:06
the moment that's where we should the moment we are right now is that when somebody you know sees an AI video of you know the the one that went super viral a while back was like people on the roof of an apartment building and it's a pool and the glass breaks and
1:15:21
people flow off it's like that video and videos like it are not worth for the average American an extra $100 a month you know extra $1,000 a year added to their electrical bill right and so >> exactly right and and that's the political dynamic and that's why John I go hey all of That sounds great. Uh it's
1:15:35
Uh it's a little worrying to put my entire retirement portfolio based upon uh you know a very different message and when that's the reality of where we're going to end up a little bit better Microsoft Teams is just really not the anthropic vision which is being sold to me.
1:15:51
Okay, about I mean I talked to a guy who works at Accenture.
1:15:55
I said, "How do you use AI?"
1:15:56
He's like, "Yeah, it's great.
1:15:56
It does auto uh meeting summaries for me."
1:16:00
And I was like, "Wow, you know, listen, definitely great.
1:16:03
I mean, it means you don't have to hire some entry-level guy, although maybe that's not great.
1:16:07
And what really ended up happening is that you end up using it for these extraordinarily mundane tasks.
1:16:12
I I have no issue with that as long as the attendant social fallout, government policy, power bills, and all of that is tied up into it.
1:16:21
Not to mention, and I I I really can't belly the social cost because what you said, Jordy, is is a central thing.
1:16:28
There is a mass elite revolution right now against social media.
1:16:32
And between I think Jonathan height might be one of the most public like important public intellectuals in modern in like in a long time leading what I think is going to be at least a top middle discussion with all of these different school districts, states and others which are banning phones.
1:16:48
The recognition is that they are controlling us and we need to ret take control of our life.
1:16:54
AI is kind of supercharging that message.
1:16:57
And if you talk to the vastly rich, which you do, and I've spoken to a few of them, how many of them really let unlimited screen time for their phones in the way that you know the income of, let's say, people making less than 100,000 do for their children?
1:17:10
It's just completely different.
1:17:12
You know, they're very aware of that dynamic.
1:17:14
And that is permeating social culture at a way that I don't think people in tech are quite realizing.
1:17:19
Do you think we it always takes a generation uh to of guinea pigs to understand where a technology winds up?
1:17:27
I I because I grew up with the the panic around video games and the idea that if you played Counter Strike competitively at a very high level and became one of the greatest Counter-Strike players of 2003, you were definitely going to be crazy. Well, I did it.
1:17:44
I was great at Counter-Strike.
1:17:44
I wasn't maybe one of the best ever, but I was pretty good.
1:17:47
And I don't have any violent impulses. whatsoever. I was fine.
1:17:50
I was not oneshot by uh 360 no scoping people.
1:17:53
I became a productive member of society.
1:17:55
And I feel like we came up with the ESRB E, you know, R like like teen rated games, M-rated games, and we kind of figured out like where the line is.
1:18:05
Parents adapted, kids adapted, and we got through that.
1:18:08
social media, it feels like we're towards the tail end of getting through it where most parents know, hey, the the young kids should not be on Instagram like constantly or Tik Tok constantly.
1:18:19
And in with AI, we're just starting to understand.
1:18:23
Um, but it feels like we'll kind of wind up in the same place, which is like >> you might be right.
1:18:27
Uh, but let me challenge you a little bit on the video game front because I think that video John, you also know my crusade against sports gambling.
1:18:35
So, Robin Hood, if you're listening, please don't allow sports betting.
1:18:38
Uh but one of the important things around gambling, you also know my crusade against marijuana is here's the issue with video games with all of these vices and things that you're talking about.
1:18:48
It's fine sometimes, but there is an attendant part of society which actually does lose it when immersed in this culture.
1:18:55
So, you know, I've pointed unfortunately part of my job I cover a lot of mass shootings.
1:19:01
We had two or actually three very recently.
1:19:03
We had Minnesota, we had the also the Charlie Kirk killer and then we also had the ice shooter.
1:19:07
All three were deep in these weird Discord gamers.
1:19:12
The ice guy spent 20 hours a day gaming.
1:19:15
>> The Discord is a social media thing.
1:19:16
>> Discord the the platform.
1:19:18
>> I don't think it is like a video platform.
1:19:21
>> Yeah, but you guys can look at his Steam data. He was logging.
1:19:22
I don't exactly remember the number off the top of my head, but an absurd number of hours playing video games.
1:19:27
This is somebody who's 31year-old male.
1:19:30
>> This is kind of a contrarian take.
1:19:30
I feel like most people close the book on the video games as as >> I'm back. I never left. Okay. Actually, no. I've never left.
1:19:37
And that's part of that's part of what I think is important to say is that people say it worked out. I I I just dispute that.
1:19:43
I mean, we have millions of people now who are addicted to gambling, who are addicted to marijuana, who've gone psychotic, people who are wasting their lives in front of these screens, and it's like, did it work out?
1:19:55
I mean, yeah, it worked out for the S&P 500.
1:19:56
Did it work out for the United States of America? I would say no.
1:20:01
I mean, if you put all those things together.
1:20:04
>> Yeah, it was interesting.
1:20:04
Uh Ryan Ryan Cohen uh from GameStop came on the show on Monday.
1:20:08
He was basically he was >> he didn't say this explicitly, but he he was basic it's he was seemed generally in favor of just stopping all AI research.
1:20:18
>> Well, I thought you were going to talk about his take on Call of Duty.
1:20:19
He was like, I don't want He was basically like, I don't want people playing Call of Duty.
1:20:24
Like, I don't want kids playing Call of Duty.
1:20:26
Which is crazy from like the GameStop guy.
1:20:27
He's the CEO of the company, but he was he had sort of a similar like anti- video game take like maybe it's not as safe as people think it is.
1:20:35
>> Well, I mean, if you guys talk to teenagers and you're like, "How do you guys hang out?"
1:20:38
A lot of them will be like, "Oh, we don't hang out very much, but we play a lot of video games together." Sorry, that's bad. All right.
1:20:43
I mean, this just It's weird. It's weird.
1:20:45
>> Wait, but what about all the dudes?
1:20:45
I'm sure you know some of the guys who have been like one shot by golf where they're just golf is their whole personality.
1:20:52
They just are all they do all day is think about golf and then on the weekend they go golfing. It's similar, is it not? >> Uh, no.
1:20:58
Oh, it's not similar because well, okay, when I said video games, what I said is they're at home playing online with their friends.
1:21:03
Now, you and I you guys, we're all relatively the same age.
1:21:07
Online play was not around that time.
1:21:09
So, what we would do is you would gather at a friend's house.
1:21:10
It was still pro- social.
1:21:12
It was it was it was couch.
1:21:15
It was a thing when I was a a kid.
1:21:19
Uh, but I I lived somewhat in the country and so there before anybody could drive it was like your your parent wasn't necessarily it was it was tough to get around basically and so video games were a way that you could hang out with your friends and otherwise it would have just been >> hanging by yourself or whatever.
1:21:36
Maybe that's maybe that's maybe that's better.
1:21:40
>> Uh maybe I mean I don't know.
1:21:40
>> Uh maybe I mean I don't know. What would get you to what would get is is there any can you imagine any scenario that would get you to change your mind on >> on AI because I'm I'm with you right now it feels like AI is an expand like the
1:21:56
current state of AI in terms of products that people use and and are an everyday part of their life is just an extension of big technology right >> open AI has the aesthetics now of a big tech company they launch products like they're a big tech company they have a user base like they're a big tech company. They're very young, but that's
1:22:14
They're very young, but that's what they look and feel like.
1:22:16
They still have their nonprofit and they still have, you know, a research arm that is working on AGI, but it's hard for people to spend too much time thinking about AGI research when all the launches and the announcements are social media and new web browsers and erotica and things like that.
1:22:37
And so, but I'm curious, you know, and this is something we are always trying to tease out on the show is people that come on the show to talk about AI typically have some AI to sell you or some they have a startup equity to sell you.
1:22:50
Uh that that that's sort of predicated on on on these sort of more utopian visions of of AI.
1:22:56
Uh and it's hard to paralle out, right?
1:22:59
And so you had the the Carpathy interview recently which was kind of throwing >> fantastic interview. >> Yeah.
1:23:06
And I I that didn't necessarily like update my worldview a lot.
1:23:08
I think you put a lot of these ideas really well, right?
1:23:11
This idea of of, you know, agents are not, you know, uh are not uh the agents that we were promised maybe this year are not here yet.
1:23:20
And I think that's that's okay.
1:23:22
But I'm curious what would what would update your worldview? Um because it's hard.
1:23:26
It's like if we get massive canc drug success that was designed from AI that probably makes it all worth >> I think what John is correct is just show me like actually show it to me.
1:23:43
Stop telling me because it's creeping me out to watch talk about UBI and you know oh we're everyone's going to be uh you know extremely happy even though I run the entire world.
1:23:53
I mean, listen, this I got to put my own cynicism and bias on the table.
1:23:57
Like, I'm literally an anti-establishmentarian podcaster.
1:24:01
When these guys open their mouths, I'm just like, you're lying.
1:24:02
And most of the time, that turns out to be true. So, it's one of those.
1:24:07
>> So, so I I I would I would take the other side of this argument and and say that it is possible that we never get some sort of big binary moment where we're like, "Oh my god, yes, like it did the thing that we wanted to do, but it's still like net good."
1:24:21
I think about it like uh you know the invention of the credit card.
1:24:25
It's like it just like speeds up the economy every little it takes a little bit of friction out so that the the corner store can sell couple more muffins and then the person can pay with the digital, you know, the digital cash stored in their bank account and they don't need to do the check writing and it sort of puts a couple check writers out of business.
1:24:47
But people have new jobs digital currency will track your your CO2 consumption and no But there but there are tons of there are tons of examples.
1:25:00
>> Not to put on the tinfoil hat, but do do you think it's do you think it's funny how for basically decades people were so against central bank digital currencies and now they're like >> let me now now everybody's like I present to you stable stable coins.
1:25:15
>> Uh they're a little bit different but they're sure they're different but but the potential risks associated with digital digital money uh are still are still there.
1:25:25
Yeah, I I I I want to pick up on what John said.
1:25:27
I think it's such an important point, which is I think you are exactly correct, but this is why I react so negatively to the rhetoric.
1:25:33
And you know, guys, I mean, sure you have as well.
1:25:38
One of my favorite books, do you know by Cassidy?
1:25:41
Uh I could go through the list.
1:25:43
Michael Lewis has a book on. com.
1:25:44
I I've read through I even I I watched a few documentaries.
1:25:47
CNN, and you'll never hear me say this, actually has some decent documentaries about the decades.
1:25:52
And they have a decent documentary about the 1990s.
1:25:54
Yes, shout out to the old CNN.
1:25:56
Shout out to the old CNN.
1:25:58
They had a great documentary about the '9s which I watched and the same level of enthusiasm they were talking about the information superighway is quite literally matches much of the rhetoric of today.
1:26:09
I'm too young to actually have experience much of it on the airwaves, but the same way and the fervor which was fueling so much of do just seems I mean same thing like ironically I used chatpt uh just before I came on here cuz I knew we were going to talk about this and I >> that's what I was saying though that's what I was saying though it's it's it's one of those things like people like social media they hate it but they use it. Yeah.
1:26:34
>> Well, I I don't hate your I just don't >> Oh, my finding was that we are mirroring almost exactly the same levels of tech stock growth from the year 1999 of the entire S&P 500 of stock gains and similar ones in terms of our GDP.
1:26:47
If anything, the GDP number is higher today.
1:26:51
today. So the systemic risk which matches the rhetoric and that the risk itself of the fact is you know John what I've probably been texting you the most about is these roundtpping vendor finance deals and you you made a great
1:27:03
point to me privately about ASML and how vendor finance itself is not necessarily a negative term in and of itself but it's really hard not to go and read the story of Cisco and to say hey you know if we have very similar type of downturn and reduction of expected revenue. I'm
1:27:20
I'm not saying OpenAI itself will go bankrupt, but that itself is fueling the entire retirement portfolio of the whole country.
1:27:30
Not to mention GDP, interest rates, everything is banking on this one sector.
1:27:36
I think that's really dangerous.
1:27:38
And especially that background article, you guys are going to know a lot more than me.
1:27:41
But Sam's story about uh you know, going back to Masayoshi, which look, no offense to the viewers, um you know, I read the Weiwork book.
1:27:49
I I'm just saying I'm not saying I trust the guy.
1:27:53
>> Well, credit credit on Masa with Weiwork.
1:27:55
Masa never really got a markup, right?
1:27:57
Or maybe he got one or two, but not not not a lot on the real dollar.
1:28:01
>> No, he was buying the top. >> He top ticked it.
1:28:03
The dialogue earlier this year was Masa was is Masa top blasting OpenAI and then of course, you know, opening is up, you know, another thing.
1:28:12
Listen, his deal worked out, but it was more just the to the extent of it's very similar kind of Adam Newmanesque to me about like, oh, Sam, you need to go bigger and that's exactly what encourages him to start doing so many of these deals.
1:28:23
I don't begrudge them necessarily to do it, but you know, I really took to heart the too big to fail element of this cuz I'm thinking about this from a side.
1:28:32
>> Just say you're not an investor in SoftBank Group Corp up 173% year to date.
1:28:38
up 173% year to date. Uh we we so so we have Jordan Schneider from China talk joining in just a minute but the last question I want is uh the update on you know obviously you know you believe there's an AI bubble uh is there a media bubble is David Ellison trying to build one like what's going on in the media
1:28:56
landscape we were trying to map it out earlier taking you through uh new media neo media traditional media the legacy media the mainstream media there's so many different uh phrases like what's the most interesting story in media in 202 25 because we've already had the story about like we're leaving the mainstream and going independent. >> Here's my counter take uh which I really
1:29:15
>> Here's my counter take uh which I really came home with the gambling story recently at NBA.
1:29:19
There is a new media bubble and it's in sports and it's entirely because FanDuel and DraftKings have propped up way too many people with opinions and when there is even a modest push back on prop bets and the rest of the that these sports books are allowed to send you PM pardon my take and maybe two or three others are going to make it.
1:29:39
Everybody else is going to get wiped out.
1:29:41
There are way too many sports uh sports podcasts if you're out there and in my opinion the biggest bubble is in sports media right now entirely inflated by the gambling industry.
1:29:52
>> Do you have any do you have any sense what percentage of advertising revenues in in sports is gambling but it but it has to be like 70% to 90% 80 to 90% >> I think the Pat McAfee deal was maybe 50% paid for by uh sports betting.
1:30:08
>> Well I have a startup to pitch you.
1:30:09
There's a new startup that launched that allows you to bet on your bills.
1:30:11
Only fans, child support, and last night Ubers wipe them from your credit card >> by playing your favorite casino trying to enrage from the comfort all from the comfort of their app.
1:30:22
Are you >> So if you have a big Only Fans bill, you can gamble it away. You can gamble it away. Investor in me.
1:30:29
The investor in me wants to The investor in me wants to buy that company.
1:30:35
>> You need a vice clause on your own investments. >> Yeah, you're right.
1:30:37
I mean part I I've said as much as I preach against this stuff if I actually had to open a business it would be called game day loans like instead of payday loans and it would float sports betterers uh who are out there who like at 18 to 25% interest.
1:30:51
So that's a free idea out there. Game day loans.
1:30:52
I'm telling you it' be a billion dollar company. >> It's going to happen. It's going to happen.
1:30:57
>> If you want to sell it to FanDuel you're ready.
1:31:00
>> What what's your la last thing?
1:31:00
What's your kind of like timeline on on this sort of tension bubbling up around data centers and slop and and uh the the build out overall?
1:31:12
>> I I have a very clear idea of how of how like it can get more it can get a lot more intense from here.
1:31:19
>> It'll go national in 2026.
1:31:19
The Democrats are going to win a decent amount of elections.
1:31:23
Anti-tech is already a small D democratic issue.
1:31:26
You're going to start hearing a ton of it at town halls. It's already happening.
1:31:30
and uh 2026 2027 is when it's going to happen.
1:31:33
>> And and and on the right you're tracking like Marjgery Taylor Green or Josh Holly like who's who's going to be leading the front there on the right.
1:31:40
>> It'll probably be Tucker Carlson at the top and from that point it will flow to the Margie Taylor Greens, the Josh Holl.
1:31:48
I'd be very curious to see where uh where JD lands on this actually where David uh David I mean is a central figure in right now. Yes, David Sax.
1:31:58
Sax's point, Sax Sax's point, I think from earlier this week was that without AI, you have basically zero GDP growth.
1:32:05
So, I think he's taking >> that's the problem.
1:32:09
So, well, and listen, that's not his fault. He's the AI adviser.
1:32:11
He should be making that point.
1:32:12
But if I want to lead our country, that's not the sale I'm making because what we have learned over the last >> We need to prop up the economy so you can lose your job. >> Yeah. Exactly. There you go.
1:32:21
That is the that is the end all of this entire conversation. >> Okay.
1:32:28
Uh >> this is this is the this is the final boss of the of the anti- tech wave.
1:32:31
It really is the is the fi potentially potentially the final battle. >> Yeah.
1:32:39
>> And it's going to be it's going to be it's going to be crazy and I'm I'm excited to have many more conversations.
1:32:45
>> The singularity weekend. >> Yeah. Yeah.
1:32:47
We'd love to have you back. This is so much fun.
1:32:48
Uh >> thank you guys for having me. I really appreciate it.
1:32:51
always and congratulations on on all your success.
1:32:54
Obviously, uh I've been doing this for seven years.
1:32:56
Nobody gave me a Sunday New York Times profile. Okay.
1:32:58
So, I think I think it's >> I don't know what's going on here.
1:33:01
>> We know we know a guy. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
1:33:03
We got to make it happen.
1:33:04
Uh well, thank you so much. Have a great weekend. We'll talk to you soon. >> Cheers. You too.
1:33:08
>> Before we bring in Jordan Schneider from China Talk, let me tell you about linear.
1:33:11
Linear is a purpose-built tool for planning and building projects and products.
1:33:15
Uh meet the meet the system for modern software development.
1:33:18
Streamline issues, projects, and product road maps.
1:33:20
Uh, let's bring in Jordan Schneider from China Talk.
1:33:22
Jordan, how are you doing? >> I'm doing all right.
1:33:25
You should have kept me on with that last guest. That was great. >> I know.
1:33:29
Yeah, we we we started doing a little bit of that earlier this week.
1:33:32
We had like Brian Armstrong and Brian Chesy kind of next to each other for a little bit.
1:33:37
>> Call him back in because the answer is we will all be so distracted by our AI boyfriends and girlfriends that we won't be stressed out about losing our jobs.
1:33:44
I I think I I actually it's very it's very dark, but I think that the world >> is so entertained now that almost nothing matters. >> Mhm.
1:33:57
>> And it's sad, but uh no matter how dark certain futures could be, the it's it's it's expected that everyone will have infinite entertainment constantly.
1:34:07
And it it's so much harder for people to stand up and protest and try to create change if you know you can go back to your phone and and uh oh here's another funny video.
1:34:21
I just saw Stephen Hawkings of the X Games and it was awesome and I'm going to send it to a friend and >> it it actually is awesome though. It is sick. It's really sick.
1:34:30
It's totally worth paying a lot for that.
1:34:36
>> Totally worth the extra. is the duality of TVPN.
1:34:39
>> I haven't even seen my dog and yet just wait once I see my dog at the X Games.
1:34:45
>> No, I think I think it's important.
1:34:45
I I I think like you can't, you know, I I've I continue to be a firm believer that that technology is a, you know, massive net positive for the world, but it it has a dark side and it's important to talk about it and it's will be important to continue to talk about it and um >> it's it's numbing.
1:35:03
There's like a there's like a taking anti-depressants >> lens to it, right?
1:35:09
Where you just kind of feel less if you get these dopamine hits.
1:35:14
And we've, you know, we have not evolved to have the dopamine hits with, you know, within literally 5 seconds.
1:35:22
Anytime you feel bad about yourself or bad about the world or something that happened around you or, you know, someone disappointed you in your life, it's like, oh, okay.
1:35:30
like instead of like addressing that or you know going to protest to Jord's point um you know we can be consoled by these things that live in our pockets and they're only going to get better at it which is the sort of um I guess this is the worst this is the worst the the dopamine feedback loop will ever be.
1:35:53
>> This is the worst the infinite chest will ever be.
1:35:55
Uh do you think China is less uh dopamine adultled like like pro like brain rotted because we hear these feels a little bit no brain raw Tik Toks.
1:36:07
>> Their Tik Tok is just science videos. Absolutely not. >> Absolutely not.
1:36:11
I mean look like who needs who needs opiates for the masses more?
1:36:16
Like a country with 20% youth unemployment um or a country that has like what 3. 5% unemployment?
1:36:22
I think the the party has successfully kind of like >> Wait, which country has 20% unemployment?
1:36:32
>> You thought unemployment? >> Yeah.
1:36:34
Which country are you talking about? >> Well, yeah.
1:36:36
Give us get let let AI run for an extra year or two, I guess.
1:36:38
But over >> those are rookie numbers.
1:36:42
>> Like, if you told me that was America, I'm not that far off.
1:36:43
I I mean, I've heard that the numbers are going up, they might have spiked, >> obviously.
1:36:50
>> But no, I think I think there is I think the sort, you know, it's funny.
1:36:52
You guys should have Jasmine and son on.
1:36:54
I asked her this like um uh cuz she just came back from a trip to China.
1:36:59
I was like who walks around looking down at their phone more people in the Bay Area?
1:37:02
Um and she couldn't really distinguish between the two.
1:37:07
Um I don't >> uh just like like just like equally sort of like zoned in while like walking down the street.
1:37:15
You are like simultaneously swiping.
1:37:17
Ben Ben Sand in our chat says iOS liquid glass is the best line of defense against phone addiction. I totally agree.
1:37:25
This is like the worst software Apple's released in so long and it it just makes using your phone worse.
1:37:31
I I'm sure I hope I hope my screen time is going down.
1:37:34
>> Don't worry, Johnny IV will come in to save the day, Jordy. We won't be safe.
1:37:38
That's not that that won't save us for long. >> Yeah. Okay. Wait. Uh zoom out.
1:37:40
The original reason we wanted to chat was because of the I mean it's always fun to have you on the show but uh obviously about the rare earth like just give us the the highle update on like the trade war.
1:37:52
This has been what since the entire time since your very first appearance it's a year is it even worth like thinking about like what the highle summary is of the of the status of the debate? >> Sure.
1:38:05
I mean, I think like like look, we've seen this administration >> swing from side to side on lots of different things.
1:38:13
You know, we were yelling at Zilinski in the Oval Office, and now we're finally doing the sanctions that Biden couldn't bring himself to do around oil.
1:38:22
Um, you know, we had Trump trying to, you know, doing uh Liberation Day, taking it off.
1:38:27
Um, you know, giving them H20s, they don't want them now.
1:38:33
um uh were trying now now they sort of tried to tighten the the the grip with the um 50% rule from from BIS.
1:38:42
So sort of Huawei subsidiaries can't buy equipment and China came back with rare earths.
1:38:46
with rare earths. I think the sort of the the fundamental fact is that like both countries have the you know the the sort of both countries have the ability to do significant economic harm to each other and it's a bit of um you know there's an aspect of playing chicken um and there's a and there's this kind of
1:39:07
question of escalation dominance like which side can take more pain and which side really cares more um on >> both of them have have basically a rank list of of tools in the tool chest, chips on the poker table, and something like we're not going to sell you rare earth is extremely painful to America, maybe not that painful to China. And
1:39:27
And then we're going to tax happy meal toys or whatever is is maybe, you know, something in the American tool chest or and the Nvidia thing.
1:39:36
and the Nvidia thing. And I is the process that we should think about the lens of this year more thinking about just every both sides are trying to actually understand the shape of how painful each tool in in the tool chest is because it feels like we're we're
1:39:55
very much like turning these things on turning them off to understand okay if rare earths are plus 60 points uh Nvidia chips we thought it was plus 20 points for the US it's actually plus It feels like we're just trying to like map all these out and then we will go to the meeting and actually say, "Okay, what's equal?" Is that what's happened? Is that what's happened? >> Yeah.
1:40:16
>> Well, the the problem is I think the the shei has had a longstanding goal which he's which he's repeated in speeches numerous times that he wants to make China more self-reliant.
1:40:27
He and he wants to make the rest of the world reliant um you know more reliant on China.
1:40:32
And the problem with what you're seeing out of the Trump administration's policy towards this is what they're optimizing for changes literally week to week.
1:40:41
Um so you know tariffs are for revenue, tariffs are for um you know this trade war is to bring manufacturing back.
1:40:49
This trade war is to um actually help Nvidia gain market share in China.
1:40:54
This vid u the trade war is to crush the Chinese semiconductor companies.
1:40:58
Um, and the the problem is it's like it would be easier to sort of get to some sort of equilibrium where each side is just going to run as fast as they can at their things like if this administration had a um sort of grand vision that it was working towards consistently for.
1:41:17
But um I think the um the dance that we've seen now play out over they've met each other like 15 times is it seems like the negotiators every time they go are actually operating under kind of like different um a different incentive structure.
1:41:33
So and I think this just plays to China's benefit um because the fact of the matter is America has an enormous amount of power and leverage that it could bring to bear.
1:41:42
Um but the first time that China bit back um in the case of rare earths um that kind of really freaked out the Trump administration uh and it showed and uh sort of the uh >> so what'll be interesting sorry yeah please. Yeah.
1:41:59
To make to make this more tangible, like how how is this netting out for China's AI industry, the the messaging has been obviously, you know, we're not you're not going to buy uh Nvidia chips.
1:42:10
Maybe we'll look the other way on on Malaysia and Singapore data centers.
1:42:16
Uh we're going to invest as much as possible in catching up to the leading edge in our own, you know, domestic semi-industry.
1:42:23
We're going to dominate in power.
1:42:25
And in 5 to 10 years like we're going to be uh you know relatively you know you know in their view hopefully you know relatively equal in terms of like overall computing power and then I want to get a sense of like on the rare earth side how solvable that is for the US in your view.
1:42:43
Well, uh, uh, Chris Miller on China Talk had a good line like, "We're just we're about to see what's easier to do.
1:42:51
Build an EUV machine or build a rare earth's mining, uh, uh, you know, rare earth mines and and refining facilities."
1:42:59
So, um, from the Chinese AI perspective, I do think that their decision to sort of say, "We don't even want your H20s" is fascinating.
1:43:09
Um, on the one hand, it may just be a ploy to get Blackwell um, uh, to be like, "Oh, okay."
1:43:16
Like, "We don't want this.
1:43:17
We'll sell you even harder drugs."
1:43:19
Uh, to use Lutnik's like addiction, uh, phrase, but there also may be some sort of, um, information mismatch.
1:43:26
Um because there obviously are lots and lots of uh sort of Chinese uh AI labs and uh hyperscalers who would love to buy Nvidia chips, but Huawei may have gotten into the ear of the state council saying, "Yo, like we got this. Don't worry."
1:43:41
Like um you know, we'll >> But isn't there also haven't you know hasn't like Singapore and Malaysia like spiked quite a bit?
1:43:48
Like can that can that demand not just flow there? >> Yeah.
1:43:54
So it turns into a bit of a bridge and this is something that the administration seems to be well look if you're if you're fine selling the chips into into China uh yeah why not just sell them into into Malaysia and Singapore.
1:44:06
I mean I for one am more comfortable with that as a kind of intermediate step.
1:44:09
Um but the problem with that is like what you're doing is providing this bridge for all these um competitors of uh the US uh AI stack to kind of like keep developing and stay on the frontier such that when um Huawei really is able to scale, you know, potentially is able to scale to a level to compete with Nvidia, you have these firms still running.
1:44:31
And the question I really want to know is like look, if we're if we want to sell the AI stack to the world, um why don't we just make why aren't we selling like all of it?
1:44:41
Like why is it cool that we're just doing the Nvidia stack and then like we're having we're we're allowing Nvidia to do uh partnerships with like Alibaba cloud abroad and like sell that into into Malaysia.
1:44:54
I mean, it would not be that hard to say, okay, like you want Nvidia chips.
1:44:57
um you should also be working with American hyperscalers and you should be buying from AI and buying western models.
1:45:04
That seems to me to be like a like a like there aren't too many like uh alternatives um on the table.
1:45:11
The US does have the the leverage there and I think it's a shame that um that's not the line we're pushing.
1:45:15
We're we're instead just sort of like ending the monopoly of the AI stack at the chip layer and letting the the the clouds and models just you know go whichever way they want.
1:45:25
I think America needs a deepseek for energy.
1:45:27
An American deepseek for energy. Right.
1:45:30
So what that would mean is like what did Deepseek do?
1:45:34
Like they got they jumped to our front.
1:45:36
>> Jordan Schneider is the cash state. >> Yeah. Really cheap. Really fast.
1:45:39
And but they stole like our fundamental thing and like we need to steal how fast they can build energy over there and make it an American company.
1:45:50
>> So however they >> or just like invent nuclear fusion. Yes, John.
1:45:54
Well, it's not that confusion. No, no, no.
1:45:56
It's something that they're doing, right?
1:45:57
Aren't they Aren't they inst They're growing way more energy.
1:46:01
So, what is the company that's doing that over there?
1:46:02
What's the organization over there?
1:46:04
What do they have that's special? Let's let's copy that. >> Is that possible?
1:46:10
>> I mean, the the answer is like it would like the reason I went to nuclear fusion is like it would be really nice to have a shortcut.
1:46:16
Um because the answer is like really boring and frustrating.
1:46:20
Don't you think America will Don't you think America will just get lucky like we always do discover you know some novel you know method of energy but we always anytime we need a resource we just find some of it I feel like we'll have >> hearing about this yeah
1:46:35
>> this is the this is the whole Tyler Cowan thing like do not underestimate the elasticity of supply um it's not just finding it right it's like all these you know global capitalism is now scared of their dependence on Chinese rare earths and they kind of got a taste of that in April. Um, you know, they
1:46:51
Um, you know, they should have learned their lesson in 2014 when China did this to Japan, but now it's really now, you know, all all your VC friends that come on the show are are going to understand that this is a this is a much more investable, you know, finding like the solution to Ubium and like um, you know, manufacturing like lab grown diamonds.
1:47:13
Like people are going to be willing to pay a premium for that stuff in a way that they maybe weren't.
1:47:18
Um even >> why why are lab grown diamonds important?
1:47:22
There is actually a cyan banister company long journey is in uh something called diamond age.
1:47:30
>> But is that important in the rare earth context? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
1:47:32
It's an input to I think China.
1:47:34
This is actually one of the ones that uh uh the world is doing okay on.
1:47:39
China has like 70% of the market.
1:47:41
But yeah, it's it's part of the sort of uh um uh the you know it's it's used in fabs.
1:47:47
as part of the sort of manufacturing process.
1:47:50
>> Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
1:47:50
Uh how are you tracking uh the the backlash to uh data center buildout?
1:47:55
We were just talking to Sager and Jetty about this like he thinks that like there's going to be a serious backlash.
1:48:00
What's the deep state saying, Jordan?
1:48:04
>> So, here's the answer.
1:48:04
Um you you saw these uh you may have seen these articles come out with um the Secretary of the Army talking uh to PE firms about how they're going to lease out land.
1:48:16
It's like, "All right, we'll just like build this stuff on Yeah.
1:48:18
Just build this stuff on military bases." >> Exactly. Yeah.
1:48:22
No, no one's going to complain if it's just like in the middle of nowhere.
1:48:26
Um and and you know, you can pollute all you want on those.
1:48:29
There are all these sort of regulatory exemptions for these places.
1:48:32
Um I think the money's going to find a way.
1:48:37
The problem with this is like um sure you know the the the nimi stuff is useful when it's like you're going when it's like one neighborhood, right?
1:48:45
Or two neighborhoods, but like you can put this stuff almost anywhere and it is like 97% as useful as if you get to build it in in Virginia, right?
1:48:55
So, I'm not I'm not all that pessimistic.
1:48:58
I think, okay, maybe a few a few a few localities will be like uh loud enough to kick it out, but America's pretty big. There's a lot of places. >> I like that.
1:49:11
>> Uh what what do you think's going to happen on the humanoid front?
1:49:14
We saw this really insane demo of a Uni Tree robot that was transitioning from walking to like crawling like an insect.
1:49:23
And now Uni Tree is selling in Walmart.
1:49:25
And it just feels like we're going to repeat the DJI thing where we let uh one of every American have a humanoid in their home that uh uh you know a Chinese humanoid in their home.
1:49:34
And I'm I'm sort of surprised that we're running this back. It's interesting.
1:49:37
I mean there's there aren't real competitors at scale for the consumer market in the US yet.
1:49:44
I mean there are very straightforward regulatory things that the Trump administration could do to ban them.
1:49:50
Um there's also a handful of kind of dependencies that the Chinese robotics ecosystem still has on the U um still has uh connected to the US.
1:50:01
So you know a lot of those chips come from TSMC like there's a there's a sort of like Nvidia software layer.
1:50:08
Um maybe this is something that the Trump administration is thinking about when they're saying oh we're going to like ban critical software.
1:50:14
So there are things that the US can do to kind of slow down the um the ecosystem if they really want to.
1:50:22
>> Humanoids are not, you know, even in uni unit robots current form, it's not like they're delivering incredible value to Americans and by banning them, you're like, you know, reducing, you know, the productivity of businesses or anything like that.
1:50:36
And so it feels like maybe in 2 years they're actually providing some value across the economy.
1:50:40
It'll be much harder to go out and say we're going to ban the cheap ones and you have to buy American.
1:50:46
And it just feels, you know, I don't Well, what's really interesting is like in Ukraine, UGVs are a real thing now.
1:50:55
Um, so you know, a lot of the like uh sort of resupplying uh infantry that's on the front line is an incredibly dangerous thing and now they just have these little track robots that go back and forth.
1:51:05
You've even seen videos of like Kazak, so people who are injured um that they can't, you know, carry out in any other way being sort of like uh rolling themselves onto some like bed um and and having a drone drive them out.
1:51:20
So, um I'm I'm with you, Jordy.
1:51:20
This stuff like they're kind of cute and fun for now, but we'll get like we'll get there pretty soon.
1:51:27
It's not going it's it's not impossible. >> Yeah, they're cute.
1:51:30
They're cute, but at the same time, when it when the humanoid starts crawling across your floor and you real and and your your your human alarm, you you have a biological alarm bell going off that says like >> this thing like looks like it like from all the sci-fi movies I've seen, this thing looks like it wants to kill me.
1:51:50
>> Yeah, it it feels way more attractable to me.
1:51:52
Like self-driving cars, like you know, you know, OCRing text in an image.
1:51:58
It feels like something that we can just like chop chip away at versus like the novel scientist scientific discovery thing that feels like very uniquely human, very complex, like much further out.
1:52:10
This is just like >> make the motors work the right ways.
1:52:12
It feels very simple like we're not trying to make someone superhuman at moving like it's just do the thing that any human can do and we have tons of training data for.
1:52:23
So >> how are what's happening in in Chinese markets right now? I don't know, man. I'm just the tech guy.
1:52:31
Uh, I'm gonna pass on that.
1:52:31
Let me let me go back to the >> You should You should spin up a spin up a small venture front on the side.
1:52:37
Then you'd be able to answer that question. >> Well, no.
1:52:42
Well, the thing the thing that I am spinning up that I'm look that I want your blessing from actually is so I've started a new series um about war.
1:52:51
I think it is actually just Sports Center for War.
1:52:53
We've been doing it once a week.
1:52:55
Um, the current name is Second Breakfast, but I think WBPN would probably be a better thing.
1:53:01
So, I don't know what the licensing arrangement is here.
1:53:05
Maybe this is a conversation for offline.
1:53:08
>> I love the Second Breakfast uh concept.
1:53:11
I love the I love the topic selection.
1:53:11
I love the I love the topic selection. I would not recommend Sports Center for War because the because like there are just gonna be episodes that are sensitive and it's hard to bring humor and levity to something that's really dark and >> sports center is about providing an
1:53:30
entertainment layer over existing entertainment and like I'm sure it's been a little dark this week with all of the the gambling uh uh ring action, but uh but in general I don't think you want You might >> I don't think you want your face across the New York Times being like Jordan Schneider guy. >> Yeah, it it it is tricky. I mean, people
1:53:51
>> Yeah, it it it is tricky.
1:53:51
I mean, people have people have pitched us like, "Oh, are you going to do a trading card for the hostages being released or something in geopolitics and stuff and it's like it just feels like that's not our space?"
1:54:04
And when you recontextualize it, even if it's a positive story, it still feels like, oh, there's like there's real lives at stake versus like, you know, just money at stake, which is what we talk about, or just or just points on in the imaginary sports world.
1:54:17
Uh like in the literal sports world, like it's it is just a game.
1:54:21
Yes, it's extremely high stakes for at the Super Bowl, but it is just a game.
1:54:26
And so, uh you can have a lot of fun with that.
1:54:28
And you can also have fun with just some VCs who are writing checks.
1:54:32
But the war thing is a little bit it requires a little bit more sensitivity I think. >> Yeah.
1:54:36
I mean it's interesting because like this community is just chalk full of dark humor.
1:54:40
Um so um you know I've told this to a few people and they just like think it's the funniest thing in the world.
1:54:48
Um even like going back >> conversational element of of talking about the the war history that makes so much sense like for sure. Yeah.
1:54:57
>> Um >> um but all right point point point >> where can people where can people check it out?
1:55:03
I know it's in the China talk RSS feed.
1:55:04
Do you have to hit hit substack?
1:55:06
How are people getting into the ecosystem?
1:55:09
>> Yeah, it's just uh it's just on the China talk uh podcast feed for now.
1:55:13
Maybe end up metastasizing.
1:55:13
But yes, Second Breakfast if you need more Venezuela content in your life.
1:55:19
What is what I I have been I've been out of the loop on what what what do you think happens with Venezuela over the next month while we're while we're here.
1:55:27
You can give a little taste taster of your of your of your new show.
1:55:33
>> Well, there's two there's two paths where well I guess there's three paths they're on.
1:55:37
One he's just bluffing and we're going to move on to something else in a month.
1:55:40
But like having this many boats in the Caribbean, sending a carrier makes me feel like it's a little more than that.
1:55:47
So then there's path number two where America fights like a covert war with a cartel.
1:55:52
Um and then there's path number three where we sort of like kill exfiltrate um end up intimidating out of the country sort of Maduro and his like leadership team.
1:56:05
And um I don't think uh this administration is necessarily going to be the if you break it you buy it mindset.
1:56:13
So, um, you know, then I guess the cartel takes over the country. I don't know.
1:56:19
It is not clear to me that, um, this has been entirely thought out.
1:56:24
It just seems a lot like a Sakario cosplay at like a giant horrific on a giant and like really horrific scale.
1:56:32
Maybe there's a better idea out there behind all of this.
1:56:36
Um but the the sort of head of Southcom um for whom this operation would have been like the crowning achievement uh decided like said he was going to retire one year into his three-year tour of duty which has basically like never happened um in the past 40 years or so.
1:56:54
So um I don't know it's going to be really messy.
1:56:57
Um the US actually does have like a kind of nice case study in what in Colombia and what uh we were able to do to sort of like get the you know bring the like talk and fight the FARC out of existence uh over the course of the 2010.
1:57:14
So that's the happy story that might manifest.
1:57:16
But the thing there is like you were working with the central government.
1:57:20
There were only 50 Americans on the ground doing the thing and like now we're trying to get rid of a cartel that um apparently the president is saying is like one in the same with the government itself.
1:57:32
So I don't know big mess uh very far from like pivoting to China.
1:57:38
Um but we'll we'll get there eventually.
1:57:42
You know this is uh it's only a matter of time. >> I know.
1:57:45
I think you got to maybe start with updating China talk.
1:57:47
Maybe it's just maybe it's just >> globe talk.
1:57:51
World talk >> world just world talk.
1:57:53
Globe globe >> world >> globe radio.
1:57:57
>> No, I think just Jordan Schneider. I don't know.
1:57:58
Uh, I mean all these all these >> Somebody in the chat said Saturday Night Live for human rights violations.
1:58:01
So that's what you wanna that's what you want to avoid with your whole sports center for war thing. >> Rough.
1:58:09
Although maybe if you just own it.
1:58:11
I mean like you listen to Tim Dylan.
1:58:13
He's like extremely candid.
1:58:13
Uh anyway, we we do have a guest waiting.
1:58:14
So thank you so much for coming on the show. Always a great time. Let's do it again soon.
1:58:20
We'll talk to you later and have a great weekend. >> Good to see you. >> See you guys. >> Cheers.
1:58:23
Uh before we bring in Chase from Crusoe, let me tell you about numeralhq. com. Sales tax on autopilot.
1:58:28
Spend less than five minutes per month on sales tax compliance.
1:58:32
We have Chase Lockmiller from Crusoe in the re waiting room.
1:58:34
Now he's in the team Ultradome. Welcome to the show.
1:58:39
You're looking fantastic. How are you, Chase?
1:58:41
Congratulations are in order.
1:58:44
Uh give us the breakdown. What's the news today?
1:58:47
Um, you know, today we are announcing the closing of our series E round of funding, valuing the company at 10. 4 billion. >> Gong. >> Gong. Another one. Another one. Another one. 10. 4 million. >> Two gong hits. >> I don't know. >> Uh, fantastic. Fantastic.
1:59:08
>> Um, uh, how are you describing where the company what what you do?
1:59:12
It's such a fascinating >> What exactly do you do?
1:59:15
>> What exactly do you do? because yeah I mean you've been doing somewhat of the same thing for a very long time and yet there's been multiple eras in terms of what the and and customer has done there's been where you sit in the stack uh the type of size of project scale of
1:59:30
projects so how are you describing the wheelhouse that or the the the the yeah where Crusoe fits >> yeah I I think uh putting it simply you know Crusoe is uh an AI factory company so what that means we're building um you know these factories that produce intelligence and this is both a hardware problem and a software problem. Uh and
1:59:50
Uh and we focus on all of the things ranging from uh cultivating the energy and helping develop the energy resources needed to uh power AI infrastructure.
1:59:58
Um we're building out the data centers themselves and redesigning them to fit these largecale accelerated computing clusters.
2:00:08
Um and then we and then we also built out this whole software platform that operates these large scale AI factories so that they can actually be effective in producing intelligence uh and really enable our generation's uh greatest minds and entrepreneurs to do their life's work and help build um and scale their AI applications to impact people around the world.
2:00:29
>> Is there a superlative that you're chasing in the Neocloud market?
2:00:31
Do you want to be the firm that can build bigger than anyone or else or faster than anyone else or more reliable?
2:00:39
I mean, obviously you want to win on everything, but is there something that you're chasing that you think is like the true differentiator? >> Um, yeah.
2:00:48
I I I think uh I I think right now uh speed is the biggest uh focus for the business in terms of uh being able to move very very quickly.
2:00:58
It's a very dynamic market.
2:00:59
Um but certainly you know uh reliability, scale, cost um all these things really come into into play and and and ultimately we want to deliver for our customers what they need, what what adds value to them.
2:01:12
>> Um so you know being able to deliver you know to our cloud customers uh the best price performance uh trade-off for their infrastructure solutions um uh alongside uh a reliable you know well-managed platform I think is you know ultimately our goal.
2:01:27
our goal. Um but uh you know I think being able to do that very very quickly right now is is a major major advantage and it's something that's very difficult to replicate when you look at you know kind of what we did in Abalene, Texas uh
2:01:40
in terms of you know starting from from nothing uh into uh a large scale AI factory that's uh you know managing that that's operating you know tens of thousands of GPUs at this point um is uh is is is a very important aspect to um you know bringing this infrastructure to life. So Abalene's is up and running.
2:01:56
So Abalene's is up and running. >> Yes.
2:02:00
So we announced uh recently the first phases of uh uh the 1.
2:02:02
2 gawatt campus are are uperational today.
2:02:06
Uh >> that's incredible because I feel like there there was like this whole press cycle about like oh it's off track and it's like this thing was announced like months ago.
2:02:17
I I expect these things to take years. I I don't know.
2:02:19
I was I was I feel like people aren't taking enough of victory lap there. >> Yeah. No.
2:02:25
>> Yeah. No. And I think there's been um you know Stargate's been this like very overloaded term in terms of you know being this >> it's a company it's a you know it's a site it's a concept it's a you know it's like what what is Stargate you know I'm
2:02:41
still not entirely sure but uh you know there's uh uh I think we got wrapped up a little bit in the uh you know rumors swirling that this thing's behind or you know that uh the company is behind but you know the project has uh uh done extremely well. >> People took the most expensive the most
2:02:58
>> People took the most expensive the most the the most ambitious vision and the shortest possible timeline and that became what you were measured against basically.
2:03:06
And so it's like unless unless a trillion dollars is in the ground working in 6 months like it's over.
2:03:12
It's like wait we never said that.
2:03:14
We said >> well it rightfully had a lot of pressure because the project got announced via the president.
2:03:18
That's not very standard for for you know launch.
2:03:21
That's a good tip for startups.
2:03:23
If you if you want a you know spokesperson, president would be a great >> Tyler Cowan has a quote that's been going around quite a bit recently which is like don't underestimate the elasticity of supply >> uh in the in the context of uh and it's been going around in the context of energy.
2:03:39
It feels like Crusoe was started on this idea of like there actually is a lot of energy out there and there's real demand for it.
2:03:45
You just got to go out and find it.
2:03:46
How much does that how much is that ringing true and as you kind of evaluate you know new sites and opportunities for your business?
2:03:57
>> No, that's absolutely the case and I think that's one of the things that set us apart and enabled us to uh move quickly and build at scale is uh having this energy first approach to developing the infrastructure.
2:04:07
Um part of our announcement today was uh announcing our energy pipeline which you know is in excess of 45 gawatts at this point.
2:04:13
Um and uh you know putting into context you know the Abalene campus is 1. 2 gawatt.
2:04:22
Um so you know it's it's it's you know orders of magnitude larger or an order and a half of magnitude and larger in terms of uh overall capacity there.
2:04:28
Uh I'm in New York City today.
2:04:30
You know it's something you know on the order of you know eight uh New York cities worth of power.
2:04:36
uh it's a it's a very substantial amount of power that's going to be required fundamentally for um AI to scale and and and to really really reach uh the the ambitions and hopes of the industry.
2:04:50
>> Uh last question, we'll let you go.
2:04:50
Um last time you were on, we kind of walked through a little bit of a debunk of the we're going to run out of water for data centers.
2:04:58
Uh what's your current thinking on the story that's emerging around like data centers are going to drive up my energy prices?
2:05:06
Is that solvable on the short term?
2:05:09
Is this going to be some short-term pain for long-term gain?
2:05:12
Uh is it something that you know you need you need to rethink regulation or or just speed up building of new energy?
2:05:21
How are you thinking about that question because it seems like it's going to get bigger and bigger. >> Yeah.
2:05:25
So, um I actually found it fascinating.
2:05:28
There was a report that came out recently that showed uh actually in markets with uh substantial data center investment uh the the the overall cost to rateayers actually came down um you know compared to uh other markets where uh you know there was less digital infrastructure being built where where prices actually went up substantially.
2:05:47
substantially. Um and you know I really see this trend playing out uh as a whole because what what ends up happening is uh you know the digital infrastructure players the the folks building the data centers at this point you know a lot of the energy market is saturated and uh
2:06:04
there isn't just you know a bunch of free power laying around you know underutilized not doing much you know there's some of that but you know it's becoming more and more scarce which means that in order to realize all of these ambitions that are taking place in AI we have to build out a lot of net new power. Um, we need to build new power
2:06:20
Um, we need to build new power plants.
2:06:22
We need to build new creative energy solutions um to to effectively energize this infrastructure.
2:06:27
And when data centers are doing that, they're having to build out power capacity um that meets their overall peak demands of the facility.
2:06:36
And um as a result, it ends up, you know, with some incremental power that is being underutilized and can become an asset to other participants in those uh energy markets.
2:06:47
and really actually bring down their overall cost of power uh because there's more abundant power.
2:06:51
Um and that really goes in line with you know the Crusoe mission which is accelerating the abundance of energy and intelligence.
2:06:56
Uh we really view those two things as the key pillars of progress in this uh chapter for humanity. >> Yeah, I love it.
2:07:05
I I I think it's definitely uh I mean there's a bunch of different political frameworks where you could use to to understand where this is going, but uh it feels very solvable.
2:07:13
one one uh one last question that probably would would take 10 minutes to properly answer, but how how much are you banking on nuclear on a shorter time horizon, if at all, talking, you know, five fiveyear timeline? >> Yeah.
2:07:29
So, we're really excited with a lot of the advancements um happening in the nuclear space.
2:07:33
Um, you know, we have a number of partnerships across the SMR ecosystem, uh, including a plan to, uh, energize the first SMR powered AI factory in 2027.
2:07:46
Um, so, uh, you know, that's going to be sort of a smaller scale deployment, but, uh, we think we'll be a great template for us to, uh, hopefully scale and and bring new, uh, nuclearpowered uh, AI infrastructure to life.
2:08:00
Um it's also you know this is been a huge priority for Chris Wright uh in terms of you know helping uh create a uh a regulatory framework for nuclear and sort of uh re-evaluating the nuclear the NRC the nuclear regulatory commission uh in terms of you know how do we actually uh enable uh the private sector to build the energy necessary to power uh demands of society data centers you know being a big big component of that.
2:08:27
So, you know, very excited and uh I think it's going to be a huge win.
2:08:32
And then, you know, there's also the big uh nuclear plants that, you know, I I'm excited to see come to life again as well.
2:08:37
Uh you know, Westinghouse uh you know, is announcing, you know, a number of very big APW 10000 uh campuses that um you know, we think will play another big part in in terms of getting the power we need uh for intelligence.
2:08:52
>> I'm I'm very excited about that.
2:08:52
I hope that we get all those uh campuses online as fast as possible.
2:08:56
Uh well, thank you so much for coming by the show. Sorry to get the late.
2:08:59
Uh we will talk to you soon.
2:09:02
Congratulations on the mass.
2:09:03
>> Congrats to the whole team. Awesome.
2:09:04
>> Always great to see you. >> Fantastic progress. We'll talk to you soon. Have a great weekend. >> Cheers.
2:09:09
>> Up next, we have Tucker from Orion Technologies.
2:09:12
We are running a little bit behind.
2:09:14
Let me tell you about Finn.
2:09:17
AI, the number one AI agent for customer service, number one in performance benchmarks, number one in competitive bakeoffs, number one ranking on G2.
2:09:23
And let's bring in Tucker for a quick hit of the gong. Give us the news.
2:09:29
Tell us what you're building.
2:09:29
We >> Welcome to the show.
2:09:32
>> Would love to ring the gong for you. How are you doing? >> I'm doing well. I can't hear you really.
2:09:40
It sounds like you're speaking in slow motion. >> Oh, check. Check. Check. One, two.
2:09:42
Uh, Orion Technologies, you're coming out of stealth.
2:09:48
would love to hear about the rays.
2:09:50
If you can take us through just the high level, we can ring the gong and maybe we can try and have you back on later. Do we have Tucker? Let's see.
2:09:59
We might need to move on if we have technical difficulties.
2:10:06
We can always have you back on the show another day. Um, should we move on? >> Can you guys hear me? >> We can hear you. We can hear you. Great. >> We can hear you. Great. >> Let's see.
2:10:16
I can I can hear you guys, but it it sounds very slow for some reason. >> My name is Tucker.
2:10:22
I'm the CEO of >> um I'm the CEO of Orient Technologies and uh we're coming out of stealth after a $3. 5 million prey. >> Let's go.
2:10:35
>> Jordy, ring that gong. Thank you very much.
2:10:37
Uh take us take us one level deeper uh about the problem, the solution, what you're building.
2:10:44
uh and then we do have to move on but please give us uh a little bit more on the progress of the company some of the decisions that you've made how you're thinking about building the company. >> Yeah.
2:10:55
So we are building uh essentially the interoperability layer for manned and unmanned aircraft.
2:10:59
So what does that actually mean?
2:11:00
Uh we enable manned and unmanned aircraft to communicate, coordinate and deconlict.
2:11:04
And we're starting with heterogeneous assets.
2:11:06
So drones built from different vendors within cities and around airports today. Mhm. >> Congratulations.
2:11:14
We're going to have to have you back on later.
2:11:15
We'll do a technical check next time.
2:11:17
Uh but have a great rest of your day.
2:11:20
Have a good weekend and congrats on the race.
2:11:23
>> Congrats on the raise. We'll talk to you soon.
2:11:26
>> Uh while we bring in our next guest, let me tell you about Adio.
2:11:28
Customer relationship magic.
2:11:29
Adio is the AI native CRM that builds, scales, and grows your company to the next level and get started for free.
2:11:34
>> New technical difficulty unlocked.
2:11:34
We haven't seen that before.
2:11:36
We have Katherine from Valos uh coming in to the TVPN Ultra Dome.
2:11:42
She I believe is in the reream waiting room.
2:11:44
Let's bring in >> Kathleen.
2:11:46
Uh welcome back to the show. Welcome back.
2:11:50
>> We had you on the show and it was a very fun conversation and we there were some things that we could talk about, there were some things that we couldn't talk about.
2:11:58
I'm glad that we're here today and we have plenty to talk about.
2:11:59
Uh but please uh kick us off with an introduction on a little bit more on yourself and the company and what you're announcing today.
2:12:08
>> Yeah, last time I was here I was so stealthy, but now very excited to uh announce what we've been working on. >> Uh I'm Kathleen.
2:12:15
I'm the co-founder and CEO of Belos, which is the next generation biode company.
2:12:20
Uh so we are trying to build infrastructure for American bio defense. >> Amazing.
2:12:25
And when we had you on, there was some cra wasn't it there was some story in the news about like some some like Chinese like scientists that that were bringing some type of bioweapon around or at least working on it.
2:12:38
So good to have you back with some more happy news. >> Yeah. Yeah.
2:12:42
I'd love to know the state of like what are the case studies that you're latching on to?
2:12:45
uh you know in the early days of of Anderoll there was this narrative around the rising power of China and our decrepit uh military systems.
2:12:57
People would talk about the failure of the or not the the delays with the F-35 program.
2:13:00
Uh do you have particular case studies and stories that you like to ground the the story of your company with? >> Yeah, absolutely.
2:13:09
So when we're talking about biod defense broadly the big problem is asymmetry.
2:13:13
So it is just so much easier, cheaper, and faster to make a pathogen than it is to make any kind of cure.
2:13:20
And that's just like at the heart of everything we're talking about.
2:13:22
That was true before AI, but what's really changed is how some of these new AI capabilities are magnifying that type of asymmetry.
2:13:30
>> It's two big ways that we're focused on in terms of the case studies you were saying.
2:13:33
The first is more about uplift.
2:13:35
So it's how many people, how much technical skill set does it take to actually engineer a pathogen?
2:13:39
And that's just dropping week over week.
2:13:41
So we used to be worried about these sophisticated state sponsored programs.
2:13:45
Um you can you can read what our folks in defense are focused on in uh Russia and North Korea.
2:13:52
Um now we can talk about like a couple students maybe at the grad level who have access to a lab and like that's probably going down to one or two as these capabilities expand.
2:14:00
So like massive massively different landscape.
2:14:04
The second side is just like how potentially lethal can these threats be?
2:14:08
So we're getting I think we have more technical difficulties.
2:14:15
It's a technical difficulty day. It's Friday.
2:14:17
The internet is slow, but you're back.
2:14:19
So, uh, please uh maybe maybe I can reframe the conversation, not to kind of just cut you off and restart, but uh people have been saying we need an anderal for bio for a while.
2:14:31
Is that an appropriate moniker?
2:14:34
And maybe we could use the Anderoll example as understanding uh a little bit deeper on what you want to build because I think of Anderoll as very much, you know, separate from Palunteer, they're building hardware, they're building specific programs of record for the DoD, competing against the primes.
2:14:50
Are there companies that you're going to be competing with out of the out of the gate?
2:14:54
How do you think about the shape of the business as it grows? Is this on our side?
2:15:01
Are we having technical difficulties on our side today?
2:15:07
>> It might be a Zoom Might be a Zoom thing.
2:15:10
>> Is there a Is is there a ma major attack?
2:15:12
Uh let's uh let's flip over to the production team.
2:15:15
What What do you guys have to say for yourselves? What's going on? >> I don't know. Is it AWS 2. 0?
2:15:21
>> It could easily be us. I seem to be back now.
2:15:24
>> Okay, we Yeah, I think we have uh I think we're back.
2:15:26
>> I have one more chance at talking about uh the Android comparison.
2:15:29
Um I would say uh probably much closer to Palunteer than Android.
2:15:34
I mean one of one of the obvious ones is like what um what does our product look like and we're talking about software and how we bring like the the best frontier capabilities to both understand what a threat is and then very quickly design a countermeasure to it.
2:15:49
How do we take those things that are that are largely in academic labs emerging really quickly and put it into something that's operational that could actually react in the time as real-time data flows in and you actually need to design a countermeasure.
2:15:59
Um but in terms of the overall do we need private sector innovation in this space? Absolutely.
2:16:05
Like the people in defense and health that are absolutely at the front lines of this keeping us safe now.
2:16:08
The pace of biotech innovation is so massively outpassing outpacing our ability to react to it that like we have to start bringing these types of tools um to really augment the defenses that we have today. >> Yeah.
2:16:23
>> Question from the chat.
2:16:23
Trey asks, "Madna designed the C19 vaccine in two days in clinical dev today.
2:16:29
The slow part is often validation, trials, manufacturing and access distribution.
2:16:34
Is val solving for that for biodefense. >> Thanks Trey.
2:16:39
Uh yes, I think a huge part of it is how how accurate you can make uh predictions that are coming from computational models.
2:16:48
>> How do this translate uh into clinical development translational?
2:16:50
Can you actually have a really precise understanding of what these therapeutics look like as soon as you start designing them in silicone.
2:17:00
So that's a huge part of our focus is um as more and more generative methods for countermeasure design come online, how could we help the people that are designing those drugs really quickly understand whether it will be effective against whatever kind of evolution we're seeing uh in terms of the of the pathogen landscape.
2:17:16
I think on the the manufacturing and supply chain side, another massive problem when we think about overall biocurity for America, um it's not it's not the first challenge we're taking on, but it's certainly something we'll partner around in the future.
2:17:29
>> How do you think about um I don't know there's like uh like ISR versus like actual bombs or something in the Anderal context like like Palunteer might make a map of like where all the bad guys are and then Ander might be the one that builds the missile.
2:17:42
Um h uh how do you think about like does America have the ability to pull up a dashboard of every different strain of flu that is at LAX right now?
2:17:56
Because I know LAX is like a famous petri dish of of you know you just like different flu and colds because everyone's traveling from all over.
2:18:05
Um, do we have the ability as a country to actually understand what's going on biologically across the country? >> Um, largely no. It's getting better.
2:18:16
I think there's two dimensions to it.
2:18:19
So, a lot of the innovation we've seen in the last couple years is focused on do we even have like the lens like is the data even flowing in of what's uh circulating in LAX.
2:18:28
I'm closer to JFK so that's the one that really hits home that I get worried about.
2:18:32
Um the part that we're focused on and what I think has to be the next step is how do you take those data inputs and make them actionable so you can do something with it.
2:18:40
So pathogens aren't static.
2:18:40
It's not like there is something today and that's what we need to worry about.
2:18:44
It's how is this changing which means that in 2 weeks what is the shape of this that we're going to have to hit.
2:18:50
So a big part of what we're focused on is trying to understand these are the things that are emerging today.
2:18:55
how quickly do we know that there are threats and then what do we need to change in terms of the countermeasures that we have to be ready for what's ever coming.
2:19:02
Um so really focused and I think that's where a lot of the palunteer analogy comes in.
2:19:07
It's not you know data for data sake.
2:19:09
It's how do you actually pull that data into the decision-m process so that you can start seeing changes in operations.
2:19:15
Um and that's what we're excited to do.
2:19:16
>> That makes a ton of sense.
2:19:16
Uh give us the fundraising news. What happened?
2:19:19
What's coming out of stealth?
2:19:21
>> What uh well we are very proud to announce that we raised 30 million Uh, >> congratulations. Incredible. Who Who are the backers?
2:19:34
>> Bunch of no names, right?
2:19:36
>> You really had to scrape the bottom of the barrel.
2:19:38
>> You had to put together rag tag group of you can barely call these guys venture capitalists.
2:19:45
>> Everyone wants to prevent bioweapons. What can I say? Um, >> no. It's a murderers row.
2:19:48
You got a bunch of great uh a bunch of great firms in >> FFund. We do.
2:19:54
We have Founders Fund and Lux.
2:19:56
They've been with us from the beginning.
2:19:58
>> Um, and then we just had OpenAI, uh, their startup front join in, >> help lead the round.
2:20:01
They're like, >> they have been ringing the alarm on, uh, what the bio the risk of some of these new frontier methods are for bio like way before anyone, and we're um, super excited to partner with them to try to stop it.
2:20:14
>> Well, congratulations.
2:20:14
uh would love to have you back on the show when whenever the next announcement is, whenever the next uh progress point comes or whenever hopefully we don't have to be giving you a call when bad stuff happens.
2:20:23
We can just talk about and celebrate these you you'll be like a a good cornerback in the NFL and we won't hear about you because you will be defending us and we won't be calling you out. >> Perfect.
2:20:36
We'll prevent the headline. >> Exactly. >> All right. Thanks a lot, guys. >> Thanks so much.
2:20:39
Have a great rest of your day.
2:20:42
>> Uh let me tell you about eightleep. com.
2:20:44
I put up a generational run last night. 98.
2:20:47
I slept for like 10 hours. It was fantastic. Jordy, how'd you do? Did you >> 91? >> 91.
2:20:54
>> How many hours did you actually sleep? >> Uh, let's pull it up.
2:20:55
Uh, while we bring in our next guest.
2:20:58
I slept 8 hours and 42 minutes. >> Wow.
2:21:02
That's And I got to the gym.
2:21:02
I got to the gym 30 at least 30 minutes before you.
2:21:07
My drive is twice as long.
2:21:08
>> This whole week for me. I was slacking.
2:21:11
But our next guest is from Nvidia. Dion Harris is here. Welcome to the show. Down for us. How are you doing?
2:21:18
>> And looking incredibly sharp. >> You look fantastic. >> Thanks for having me.
2:21:20
I didn't want to make you guys look bad, so I I even threw on the jacket. >> Oh, yeah.
2:21:24
By the way, down a little bit. Thanks.
2:21:27
>> So great to have you on.
2:21:28
>> Um, great to meet you.
2:21:30
>> Would love to get a little bit of an introduction on yourself and where you sit in Nvidia.
2:21:32
It's uh it's not the smallest company in the world.
2:21:35
It is in fact the largest company in the world.
2:21:38
uh but but uh how how do you uh uh how do you position yourself within the firm?
2:21:43
What's top of mind for you today? >> Sure. Thanks.
2:21:46
Thanks for having me again.
2:21:48
So, Dion Harris, I'm the senior director of our HBC AI and cloud solutions group.
2:21:52
So, not a very um imaginative marketing name, which means I run a lot of our HBC scientific computing national labs.
2:22:00
Obviously, we're here in DC, so you know, lots of engagement supporting a lot of our national labs both here in the US and across the world.
2:22:06
And of course AI and cloud is it speaks for itself in terms of a lot of our hypers scale clients as well as the cloud cloud providers who are building and delivering on our platform.
2:22:15
So engaging with a lot of those those folks partners customers and internally obviously to bring those solutions to market. >> Yeah.
2:22:21
How how big do you have like a headline number that you're thinking about broadly for uh just AI infrastructure?
2:22:30
It's the the hottest topic these days.
2:22:31
How how do you think about forecasting AI infrastructure and where we'll be in a few years?
2:22:39
>> Well, you know, I think Jensen has been on record and I think it's a pretty sound um sort of estimate.
2:22:42
We we expect it to be about three to four trillion dollars >> in in AI infrastructure and >> Yeah. Yeah. It's a big number. It's it's with a T.
2:22:51
So, and and I think what's really driving that um and I've been listening to the show and here, you know, there there's a ton of demand for how and where AI can be put to use.
2:22:59
Of course, we're familiar with the chat bots that we knew, you know, use and and to speed up our email um communications and to, you know, review and spellch check.
2:23:09
Those are great use cases, but what's really exciting is when you see it you being used to detect new drugs.
2:23:15
And so there's new use cases that are happening in drug discovery all the time.
2:23:18
Um I do a ton of work with national labs and seeing how it's being applied to climate and weather.
2:23:22
um being able to to replace a lot of our old numericalbased um approaches and so using AI to go and tackle really big problems that we all care about.
2:23:31
Even if we don't see and use those applications every day, we're impacted by them, right?
2:23:37
And so what's really driving that number is like I said also looking at how AI is being brought to industries.
2:23:44
Um you're going to hear a lot about next week when we when we announce the GTC how we're helping industry adopt AI.
2:23:48
And this is really important not just in terms of the bottom line of US companies, but really making the US competitive in a global scale, right?
2:23:59
Making sure that we can deploy and run and build and manufacture at an efficiency that makes us competitive on a global scale.
2:24:06
And so that's really going to be a lot of what we talk about here at GTC next week.
2:24:09
Do you have do you have one of the easier jobs in tech ju just because if I'm a data center operator, I have to answer questions about well am I using natural gas or clean energy?
2:24:23
And if I'm an inference model creator, I have to answer questions about are the answers truthful or are they fair or am I generating something that's valuable or am I generating slop?
2:24:34
But Nvidia, I feel like, has the perfect, it's just the perfect business because it's you're already optimizing for the most efficiency.
2:24:41
So, no one can say, "Oh, well, you're you're not taking energy efficiency seriously."
2:24:44
Like, that's the entire point.
2:24:47
>> And no one can say you're unprofitable.
2:24:48
>> And no one can say you're unprofitable.
2:24:50
So, like, how are are you feeling good right now?
2:24:52
Are you feeling are you feeling happy? I don't know. >> Yeah.
2:24:56
What's the energy like even even internally at NVIDIA? I'm curious.
2:24:58
It's got to be such a wild environment. >> It's great.
2:25:04
it it's you know definitely you know incredibly crazy right now but what I would say is just because there's so much interest and excitement around um not just AI but accelerated computing a lot of what we do you know we're an accelerated computing company at heart >> and there's you know over a trillion
2:25:19
dollars of infrastructure and still moving from CPU to GP GPUs in fact Oracle just last week announced that they're going to be accelerating their their um classic database now that's most people don't think about databases >> crazy on on you know, and they're backending every major application. And
2:25:33
And so, you know, when we think about NVIDIA, you know, obviously accelerated computing is how we've really um got started.
2:25:41
And now that we're in this era of AI, you know, we're really looking to help power every application across multiple industries.
2:25:48
But to answer your question, um we wake up thinking about how can we make our platform better and how can we make it more efficient because that's really at the core of the value for our customers.
2:25:57
But we're actually doing a ton of work beyond just our core platforms.
2:26:01
In fact, our solutions are shaping and redefining how the data center overall is built.
2:26:07
>> And so, a lot of the work that we're doing is building solutions and blueprints and reference architectures that help the entire ecosystem get ready for what we're building, which delivers more efficiency at the at the end state.
2:26:19
So, again, I think our position is unique in the marketplace and that we totally see and understand all the new new models that are being developed and coming coming to market.
2:26:27
We obviously understand what our products are going to be able to do today and going forward.
2:26:32
And we therefore are giving lots of insight into all the mechanical, electrical, and plumbing infrastructure providers, the power generation folks, the grid providers.
2:26:41
We're giving lots of of feedback all the way up the up and down the supply chain.
2:26:46
>> That yeah, that Oracle database on GPU thing is it feels massive to me.
2:26:48
It feels like very significant like immediately uh very tangible, you know, performance benefits. I can imagine.
2:26:55
I I haven't seen the actual stats, but I imagine it's extremely uh is it's going to be more efficient or faster.
2:27:02
Um but uh how do you balance marketing like sort of stories like that, stories about the AI buildout with stuff that's more futuristic, more further out?
2:27:11
There was a lot of uh debate on the timeline this week about uh >> StarCloud. >> Yeah.
2:27:18
How fast GPUs will be in space and everyone's saying like look like we love this founder.
2:27:23
We're having him on the show actually next week.
2:27:25
It's a really exciting project, but I think everyone kind of agrees that this is not going to happen tomorrow.
2:27:30
And the and the the rendering the the the the sci-fi, it's more of a sci-fi movie than they put out shows like, you know, whole truckloads of GPUs moving around in space.
2:27:39
How do you think about balancing that from the Nvidia brand perspective?
2:27:45
>> Well, from our perspective, you know, we recognize that like I said, there's a lot of interest and investment.
2:27:48
lot of interest and investment. like we talked about that three to4 trillion dollars that's going to be invested in AI infrastructure and of course that infrastructure is going to be deployed you know in lots of different areas um obviously as we've talked about how a lot of the concentration historically has been around you know high popular
2:28:05
highly populated dense areas but now we recognize you know AI factories can exist anywhere they can exist anywhere there there's where there's you know cheap clean power and so obviously space is some place where there's lots of renewable energy so you know I suspect ect that will certainly be a place where where data centers will land eventually. But right now, you know, we're really
2:28:24
But right now, you know, we're really focused on how can we help build um the infrastructure that's right in front of us and and help really deploy that in the most efficient performant way as possible.
2:28:33
And of course along the way make sure that we're adding value because that's really what what we're here to do um for not just ourselves but the broader ecosystem.
2:28:41
>> You would you would laugh.
2:28:41
We were running the numbers on building a hearth or a woodpowered data center server here at the studio.
2:28:47
We think we think >> it's surprisingly doable.
2:28:50
Like out of like a normal fireplace, we believe you could potentially power eight H100's and fine-tune GPT OSS however you want it over the course of a day.
2:29:02
Basically, we haven't we haven't we haven't >> we want to be we want to be the first Nvidia customer to be focused on the wood powered data center.
2:29:12
>> Yes, there's something our own part of the market.
2:29:14
It's very cozy to chop firewood and uh and and boil water as they did hundreds of years ago.
2:29:22
>> Well, I'm I'm super excited for for GTC next week. >> Yeah, this is great.
2:29:25
Thank you so much for giving us a little preview.
2:29:28
>> For giving us the preview >> and have a great weekend. We'll talk to you soon. >> Great hanging. >> Appreciate it. Thanks a lot.
2:29:34
>> Before we bring in our next guest, let me tell you about public.
2:29:36
com investing for those that take it seriously.
2:29:38
They a multiass investing industry yields and they're trusted by millions. >> Soon billions.
2:29:43
Um, I think we might actually have a one minute break before our next guest comes in.
2:29:48
There's no one in the reream waiting room. Or is there? No, not yet. So, give us a post. Jordy Hayes.
2:29:56
If someone's smart, if someone is smart but has bad aesthetics, normies will not take them seriously. This is good.
2:30:03
Aesthetic aesthetic contains real information.
2:30:06
This post is from defender of basic.
2:30:08
uh that this category of smart people can't read and if they gain power, these blind spots will lead to their undoing.
2:30:16
I completely botched this reading. This is a mess.
2:30:19
Let's >> Here's another one.
2:30:20
Alex Denko uh Sundar Pachai said yesterday or a couple days ago, new breakthrough uh quantum algorithm published in nature today.
2:30:28
Our Willow chip has achieved the first ever verifiable quantum advantage.
2:30:32
Willow ran the algorithm which we've named quantum echoes.
2:30:37
13,000 times faster than the best classical algorithm on one of the world's fastest super supercomputers.
2:30:44
This new algo can explain interactions between atoms in a molecule using nuclear magnet magnetic resonance, paving a path toward potential future uses in drug discovery and material science.
2:30:55
The results is verifiable, meaning its outcome can be repeated by other quantum computers or confirmed by experiments.
2:31:02
This breakthrough is a significant step toward the first real world application of quantum computing and we're excited to see where it leads.
2:31:10
Again, see this positioning right?
2:31:10
It's positioned as an internal science project.
2:31:15
Of course, he's saying it's a step toward the first real world application of quantum.
2:31:20
>> Did you see what Martin Scley said? >> What did he say? >> Contrived results.
2:31:24
Still not faster advantaged. He's like so bearish.
2:31:30
>> Alex Denko though says I'm okay.
2:31:30
I'm sorry if this is a dumb question. Congrats.
2:31:34
And I think I I when I see this and I see the algorithm and I see what like how they're talking about it.
2:31:39
It really does feel like yes over the next decade like there could be some really really powerful niche use cases that are extremely it's a good it's a good quantum computer sir. >> I agree. I agree.
2:31:48
But >> one more post before we did you want to explain why quantum computers look like that?
2:31:53
Because that's what Alex Denko is asking and there is an answer.
2:31:55
Um it's uh because they're uh they need to be cooled.
2:32:02
They need to be really cold.
2:32:02
And so you have to hang it instead of attaching to the floor.
2:32:07
Each layer of the chandelier is colder down to the last one where the quantum computation is taking place.
2:32:14
And so you see this chandelier funneling smaller and smaller and colder and colder until you get to the very very tip. I don't know. Interesting.
2:32:23
Well, we have our next guest in the reream waiting room.
2:32:26
Let's bring him in to the TVP alter. How are you doing? Bet >> b, welcome.
2:32:32
>> Good to see you, >> guys. >> What's happening? Huge, huge day.
2:32:36
>> Congratulations on all in uh in the fall ecosystem. >> Thank you. Thank you.
2:32:40
So, today we are um doing our inaugural generative media conference.
2:32:45
Uh I'm in the ferry building. >> Very cool.
2:32:48
>> You can probably tell. Uh beautiful venue.
2:32:50
Um yeah, it's it's a big milestone for us.
2:32:53
Uh it's it's you know, we we thought that generative media really needs its its space.
2:32:58
Uh and you know, we need to we need to talk about it because it's it's an extremely big deal.
2:33:05
Uh and you know, we thought we would we would honor this this um industry by by you know, throwing throwing a big big event where foundational models are coming here.
2:33:16
Uh people from the industry are here.
2:33:19
Jeffrey Katzenberg actually. No way. Legend. Very cool.
2:33:21
That was that was pretty awesome. Yeah. >> Yeah.
2:33:24
So, what uh what are what are attendees trying to uh understand or or advance uh what are people talking about? >> Yeah. Yeah.
2:33:34
Um there is there is like I mean this is this is becoming a full industry, right?
2:33:40
So it's it's many there's many kinds of people here.
2:33:42
So there's people from foundational model labs.
2:33:46
So they're trying to build these models, compete against the big big giants, right?
2:33:50
Um and it's a very diverse space.
2:33:52
So unlike the language model market where you have a few big big winners, here we're seeing like hundreds of companies building models, customizing models and and using you know their their customers are using in production.
2:34:06
So there's foundational models, there's people from the industry.
2:34:09
So media, we had a talk from a architecture firm that's using generative media in production.
2:34:14
Um and and yeah like early stage founders and you know even even like some big Hollywood Hollywood names uh like big big production studios. >> Yeah.
2:34:26
Are people focused now on on benchmarks, eval um certain niche capabilities?
2:34:33
Like we're starting to see this like kind of refragmentation I feel like where Sora can do cameos and V3 could do audio and certain Craya can do lip syncing.
2:34:45
Well, and there's all these different sub applications where it feels like if you're a buyer of generative media of tokens or I don't frames, I guess, uh you are really looking for the right tool for the job and you might have to kind of go through the haystack to find the needle that fits your use case specifically.
2:35:05
Is that the general vibe? >> Yeah, absolutely.
2:35:09
>> Yeah, absolutely. I think I think there is there's definitely alignment on how these models are getting more specialized on one hand there's there's general models like I think VO is is pretty general right like it can do many things but on another hand uh you need
2:35:25
you need more and you know what we're hearing from people is you need more and more specific workflows so workflows is a very big topic and we are now in the like kind of usefulness utility phase of of this whole space where like there we go >> let's give it up for utility and usefulness. Love it. Love it.
2:35:42
>> So, so, so we we're what we're seeing is, you know, people are building these uh building this tooling, right?
2:35:47
So, they're they're building the application layer such that, you know, these downstream uh users from marketing, you know, architecture, gaming, uh movies, every so that like creatives can start using this technology. >> Yeah.
2:36:02
How how's uh what's your view on how Hollywood has most recently been kind of navigating Gen AI?
2:36:07
We've heard from folks in the industry that people are experimenting with it, but they're hesitant to even talk about it too much because they get so much blowback from uh you know, we're here down in LA.
2:36:20
There's a lot of people that aren't excited about Gen AI for a number of reasons.
2:36:23
But how how do you see Hollywood navigating this current moment?
2:36:28
Yeah, I mean we're definitely feeling like a shift in the vibes.
2:36:31
So, they're definitely they're definitely turning towards a side of like experimentation.
2:36:40
I know that there's like a few good projects in the pipeline that are going to come out.
2:36:44
I think we're going to see this shift happening uh towards the end of the year, early next year.
2:36:48
And yeah, we see we see very big players actually embracing this tech and and yeah, it's going to be somebody in the chat here next year.
2:36:58
>> Somebody in the chat just said you guys should get Hollywood on as a guest.
2:37:02
>> We should we should >> we'll work on that.
2:37:02
Uh another question I had is uh I I don't know how much you can share, but what what is what's Sora 2 adoption been like so far?
2:37:08
How quickly are a number of different application layer companies kind of um turning it on and and and uh burning up the GPUs? >> Yeah.
2:37:20
Um it's been we we don't have like full visibility into Sora's adoption, but from what we know is it is a very good model for like a very certain um aesthetic, right?
2:37:33
Like you can probably tell that it is extremely fine-tuned on, you know, social content.
2:37:38
you know, social content. Uh so so yeah it it is getting it is getting uh amazing adoption but but you know this space is virtually infinite like there there's literally all sorts of things you can do that's that's why we believe like this we were just in the beginning
2:37:55
and yeah it's just it's just a form factor right and and um it's just one kind of uh model we think there's going to be many many versions >> totally >> can you walk my my immediate reaction to Sora is like I could see this being used for like very specific specific. If you
2:38:08
If you wanted to generate UGC style ads, it could probably do a a decent job at that.
2:38:16
But that same application would also want to generate ads in a bunch of different styles, right?
2:38:21
Cinematic styles, things like that. >> Exactly.
2:38:24
And and yeah, like don't get don't get me wrong.
2:38:25
I think you know that model like it's the it's it's the pre-training versus post-training like it's you know I would speculate that it is really fine-tuned on this like social use case but that doesn't mean that there is no you know amazing model in in in the back of it.
2:38:41
So so technically they can crank out different things for different use cases. >> Totally. >> Yeah.
2:38:47
Uh yeah I mean I could go so much deeper on all this and all the like comparisons of all the models.
2:38:52
uh we'll have to have you back and because I know you're uh at your conference and obviously need to get back and meet customers and whatnot, but thank you so much for taking the time to stop and >> chat.
2:39:02
Excited to have a bunch more folks on in the next 30 minutes or so.
2:39:06
>> Yeah, this will be great.
2:39:06
Uh we'll talk to you soon and have a great weekend.
2:39:11
>> Uh let me tell you about adquick. com.
2:39:12
Out of home advertising made easy and measurable.
2:39:13
Say goodbye to the headaches of out of home advertising.
2:39:15
Only adqu combines technology out of home expertise and data to enable efficient seamless ad buying across the globe.
2:39:20
Our next guest is Glenn Solomon from Notable.
2:39:24
We'll bring him in to the TV pin. Ultradome. What's going on? Can you hear me? I cannot hear you. We don't have audio yet. No audio.
2:39:36
I'm sure the production team is working on it.
2:39:40
I will tell you when I can hear you.
2:39:43
So, just uh I guess keep chatting, I guess. Still still nothing. How we doing folks? >> We got nothing.
2:39:53
We got nothing coming through.
2:39:55
AGI is just days away and uh we need AGI to put some resources towards uh technical difficulties for for podcast live streamers.
2:40:06
Um anyways, we will I'll kill time.
2:40:10
Uh here's a here's a post yesterday. >> Okay, sounds good.
2:40:15
>> Okay, I think we got some we got something coming. >> I can hear you. Ah, Jordy. Great. This is Glenn.
2:40:22
>> It's so great to see you, Glenn.
2:40:22
Uh, an amazing amazing setup here.
2:40:24
Are you uh did you already give a talk?
2:40:27
Are you are you going to give a talk or are you just uh uh >> I've been in the I've been I've been enjoying the uh the amazing uh talks so far and I'm excited to talk to you about them. >> Amazing.
2:40:39
Uh why don't you give a quick intro on on yourself and your firm and then and then we can get into reactions from the event. >> Sure. Yeah.
2:40:48
So I'm Glenn Solomon, managing partner at Notable Capital.
2:40:52
We've been in business for 25 years.
2:40:52
Uh we're a global venture capital firm focused on software infrastructure and uh one of the key personas we focus on as a software developer.
2:41:02
We backed uh companies over the years like uh Verscell recently, Hashi Corp, uh some great businesses that we've been very fortunate uh to work with.
2:41:13
What was what was the exact moment that you founded the firm? >> 25 years ago. 2000. >> No, I know. But like what was it? 2000 Was it March? Was it during the crash?
2:41:25
Like when when uh do you remember the month specifically? >> It was February. Uh so early in the year.
2:41:33
>> So you basically went on a roller coaster.
2:41:35
You started up here and then just >> that's little known fact though.
2:41:37
It's actually good to found a firm right about then because you don't get in >> you can deploy you can deploy in the valley of despair. >> Wow. >> Exactly. Exactly.
2:41:48
>> That is a great great timing. Great timing. Uh amazing.
2:41:50
So So yeah, walk us through uh some reactions to the event so far.
2:41:56
>> So uh you know it's it's been really cool to be here.
2:41:58
It's the first uh generative media conference that FAL put on.
2:42:02
really their first user conference and there's about 300 people here and you can just feel the energy amongst the developers who are building all kinds of amazing applications using generative media.
2:42:13
It kind of reminds me I was lucky enough to invest early in Hashi Corp in 2016.
2:42:18
And I was at their first user conference up in Portland and there was 150 people in the room uh basically anybody who wanted to attend could and it was uh you know a bunch of very intrepid DevOps professionals who saw the future somewhat similar to Hashi Corp.
2:42:33
And the reason I mention is cuz four or five years later at uh their user conference in San Francisco there was 5,000 people uh and I think this is the start of something very similar.
2:42:45
We're going to see this industry grow dramatically over the next several years.
2:42:48
And it would not surprise me if you know uh Dreamforce Lookout uh this this generative media conference is going to be really big over the next several years. >> I believe it.
2:42:57
What uh uh Burr was saying there's a an architecture firm uh talking at the event on on how they're using what what are some of the other maybe more like edge cases, niche use cases that you're seeing?
2:43:12
Well, definitely advertising, marketing, uh you know, your feed on social media, uh entertainment, education, all of these things are people spend dramatic amounts of money today, hundreds of billions of dollars on, uh content production for traditional media.
2:43:28
I think that's all going to shift over time.
2:43:32
time. uh and we're just starting to see the early early days of that but clearly there's going to be a shift because using generative media you can move much quicker it's less expensive you could be much more targeted in what you do so I think all those industries are in experiment experimentation mode maybe first second inning but it's early but one of the things I I uh heard about
2:43:53
today that I thought was really interesting is really the net new applications that I think are going to come as well things that don't exist yet today a good maybe uh harbinger of That would be like if you've ever been to the sphere uh in in Las Vegas, you know, you look at the geometry there and the just sheer size of the place, traditional media couldn't really solve that problem and create an immersive experience. And
2:44:13
And so that's a great area where generative media is doing something that couldn't be done in the past.
2:44:18
So I think you're going to see both replacement and over time net new.
2:44:22
And I think that's what that's why uh uh people are so excited about what's going on here today. >> Makes a lot of sense. >> Yeah, that's amazing.
2:44:30
Uh, well, thank you so much for stopping by the show.
2:44:33
We'd love to talk to you more, but uh, >> first guest appearance from a podium.
2:44:39
>> Yeah, hey, I'm I'm a longtime listener, first time caller. This has been awesome. Thank you guys. >> Amazing.
2:44:46
Well, come back on again soon and uh, have fun out there.
2:44:48
Give our best to everybody at the event. >> We will. >> We'll do. Thanks, man. Cheers.
2:44:53
>> We'll talk to you soon.
2:44:54
>> Uh, let me tell you about Basel.
2:44:54
You got to go to kebazzle. com. just concier a hitter.
2:45:03
>> They're available now to source you any watch on the planet.
2:45:06
>> Uh >> I'm I'm really pushing John to get the cubitus.
2:45:10
I think it's time green dial.
2:45:13
>> Uh I wish I wish I had more time to give you the full my full uh case for it.
2:45:15
But we will move on to our next guest.
2:45:20
>> We have Diego Rodriguez from Craya in the re waiting room.
2:45:22
Welcome to the show Diego. How are you doing? >> Welcome. >> What's up?
2:45:26
>> How you >> what's happening?
2:45:27
Uh, talk to me about about the AI suite for creatives.
2:45:29
I was particularly interested in this debate between like chopping wood and creating new workflows for specific video generation or AI use versus like trying to instantiate some things on the fly.
2:45:42
I always see these like I made this amazing AI video. Here's how I did it.
2:45:49
And it's piecing together like three different steps where they fine-tuned on their face and they did a special model that had a beginning and an ending frame and then they did some sort of control net on top of it and then they upresed it.
2:46:02
And how are you thinking about actually piecing all the different tools together in a way that someone it's like a the final UI effectively?
2:46:09
a the final UI effectively? I mean like I mean I'm here like at the fall conference and like talk actually exactly about that like I I'm don't know it's kind of frustrating to see people be like this generated this is not dude
2:46:25
it's a new medium like it's just a new medium so like whenever I see a frame by say now Hollywood is starting to toy around these tools >> like the the best people tell you like like you you you >> you don't ask them like is did you use Photoshop or after effects or Houdini or AI right? He's like, "Dude, all of them
2:46:42
He's like, "Dude, all of them like this was even a dialogue when we were discussing about a certain idea."
2:46:48
That's also part of the process of making things >> and I think we're far from automating uh like true storytelling, which is why we need tools.
2:46:56
Where's the pencil for the latent space? That's what we need. >> Yeah.
2:47:00
>> Yeah. um what how do you think about um uh what the actual product looks like that people want at each level of scale like enterprise is fine with APIs and they will have a team of software engineers like build the tools exactly
2:47:18
that they need then the proumer might be fine with a nodebased workflow or something that's a little bit more you know fine-tuning parameters under the hood but then they want something that's maybe repeatable tool that they can jump in and out of. And then the final
2:47:31
And then the final consumer wants like you know how you see those like dedicated app just for like just the face swapping app and like face swapping is obviously a feature that should exist in the nodebased workflow in uh Craya in a proumer in a professional tool.
2:47:47
So, how how do you think about like checking the box on all the features out of the out of the gate versus uh leaving enough flexibility that your users might get lost because you don't uh you don't handhold as much.
2:48:02
I think that like these barriers are uh let's call them vestigial concepts from our culture as in like we think those barriers are there because of where we come from which is like okay we used to have the professional who goes to Photoshop and everyone that is maybe doesn't need as much control goes to
2:48:24
something like Canva and then if you're just a random person that is toying around with making stuff then you use a certain iOS app or whatever But the reality is that a lot of these barriers used to just be APIs uh like a certain plug-in or a certain API call or whatever and with Vive coding these they are blurring out now. So I actually see
2:48:42
So I actually see consumers who ask me can you get an API because I have coded some things and then I actually get uh enterprises being like oh your UI is actually one of the best ones and that's why we are doing these things.
2:48:54
So I think that uh this is a time full of uncertainty and when you have uncertainty the only thing that can ground you is first principle.
2:49:01
So you have to kind like uh go back to mon go back to the beginning like think about what is truly true and what is just marketing fluff.
2:49:11
>> So the way I'm thinking >> do you think images and video are two separate products long term?
2:49:16
>> Like Premiere Pro is a different product than Photoshop.
2:49:19
They are different and even Lightroom is another product in the Adobe ecosystem.
2:49:23
Uh I can imagine you can I mean it's just pixels.
2:49:26
Uh you can clearly put all the tools in one bucket, one app. Adobe didn't.
2:49:31
Is that vestigial or will we see another separation?
2:49:39
>> I think separation will be here in the short term and midterm.
2:49:41
Uh because um you you can you can argue that like as we advance there's actually even more separation, right?
2:49:51
Like like at first books were only in a certain way and now there's a myriad of formats and images and like can you even do books for like you know for kids where they even have things inside that they that they like animations even.
2:50:04
animations even. So I feel like as we push the medium and by medium I mean the latent space yeah forward we will actually realize that we need way more tools than we thought we needed and that's why we're starting like we see kind of like this cambrian explosion of
2:50:19
like okay we have control net we have confi uh we have ka but then in ka you can like jump in between tools and then you can use say an image model within many tools and that's the key part which is you said it's just pixels and it's like yeah but guess what like a song can be represent presented as pixels. If you
2:50:34
If you have a like a certain frequency diagram, it's just pixels too.
2:50:39
So at the end of the day, >> sheet music when you scan sheet music, that's pixels. >> Yeah.
2:50:44
So what what we have at the end of the day is a technology that can understand like information in almost its more distilled form.
2:50:50
Y >> uh that technology can move around products but the products will be different.
2:50:56
However, they will all use that same technology and that's what we're seeing.
2:50:58
nodebased tool, image tool, iOS app.
2:51:00
All connect to our image model for instance with Korea one or flux context or whatever, but it's different applications. >> Yeah. Uh yeah, fascinating.
2:51:11
>> We like to hit the gong for guests.
2:51:11
How many how many users does Korea have? What's the latest? What's the latest? >> Give us some stats. Give us some numbers. What' you got?
2:51:18
Last time I checked signups, it was like over 30 million. >> Oh. >> Congratulations. And >> that's wild. >> Yeah.
2:51:29
And and then but like I'm actually more interested and participating in uh like the enterprise cuz I'm starting to see true business adoption and that's where it starts to be like stopp >> very auspicious gong ringing.
2:51:42
I don't know if you can hear it but the gong is still ringing for you.
2:51:48
>> Something about how I hit it. It's very good. It's a very good omen.
2:51:49
It was very good omen for your company. Uh 30 million.
2:51:54
You know, we I I just want to take a second because we get lost in like the AI boom or whatever that uh 30 million is so many that that is such a huge that is such a huge impact to have on a product that you've built.
2:52:05
So, sincerely like massive congratulations. That's very very big.
2:52:09
I and I feel like uh you know Sam Alman's out there throwing around trillions and stuff and we lose track of the fact that uh that 30 million is a lot of users and and and congratulations. That's very great.
2:52:20
Uh thank you so much for coming on. >> Fun at the event. Yep. We'll talk to you soon. >> Cheers. >> Have a good one.
2:52:28
>> Uh, up next we have Justine Moore from A16Z.
2:52:30
This is her second time on the show. Third time in the chat.
2:52:32
I felt that gong hit in my soul.
2:52:36
>> That gong hit was wild.
2:52:36
Uh, Justine Moore, can you hear us?
2:52:39
We're back on the podium.
2:52:42
Hopefully, we have audio. Fantastic. >> Here we go. Loud and clear.
2:52:46
>> It's great to be back, guys. >> Fantastic.
2:52:47
Uh, what is uh what is new from you? >> Wait, wait, wait. Open open screen time.
2:52:53
I want to know how much Sora >> This is a good question. >> Let's see it. Let's see it.
2:53:01
>> We know she loves >> Guys, this is not going to be super impressive because I mostly use Sora on desktop. >> Oh, okay. Okay. >> Desktop user.
2:53:10
>> I would I would guess it's if I had to guess, it's probably like 15 minutes a day. >> 15 minutes a day. >> Okay. In the feed? In the feed or making? >> Making stuff, right?
2:53:19
>> Um I think I like the phone. I Okay.
2:53:22
When I do it on the phone, I like to scroll through the feed and see what other people are making.
2:53:25
On desktop, there's a lot more controllability with like the storyboard and stuff like that.
2:53:31
And you can do landscape as well. >> Oh, yeah.
2:53:33
Do you feel like you've you've given Sora, the app, enough data that you're actually getting fine-tuned recommendations or are you just seeing the cream of the crop because there isn't enough to give you specific things that you like? How what's the temp?
2:53:47
What take the temperature on the feed?
2:53:49
You know what I'm talking about, right?
2:53:50
I think it is not yet enough content to be able to have a very personalized feed for everyone, but I'm not sure because I haven't seen anyone else's feed.
2:53:58
So, they might be super different.
2:54:02
>> Yeah, cuz like if I go on TikTok and I say I like car videos and you go on Tik Tok and you say you like boat videos, like pretty quickly we're both going to just get unlimited cars and no boats and vice versa. Um, interesting.
2:54:13
Uh how are you thinking about the we were just talking to Craya about this like winning in the application layer for creativity like Sora is a creative tool you can create on desktop with the storyboard.
2:54:27
Uh there's there's this world where we wind up with one app that instantiates UI on the fly lets you do everything.
2:54:34
There's another one where we see even more bifurcation just like we have Lightroom and Photoshop and Premiere and After Effects.
2:54:40
we could wind up with 20 apps for individual little fine tune a face upres over here.
2:54:46
How do you think it's going to play out?
2:54:50
>> Yeah, it's a great question.
2:54:50
I think um honestly at the beginning of the wave we thought maybe there'd be a little bit more concentration than there has been.
2:54:58
The market just keeps getting bigger and bigger and bigger and we keep seeing more specialized apps.
2:55:02
I think because these creative AI tools are enabling all of these people who couldn't create content before to make content for the first time and so that unlocks a bunch of different verticals who weren't using creative tools much before.
2:55:16
creative tools much before. Um, so my guess is like there'll be some kind of horizontal tooling layers whether they're for developers like what the folks at fall are doing which is awesome or for consumers proumers and then I think we're also going to start seeing more vertical specific applications just like we've seen with LLMs honestly like
2:55:36
we've seen a lot of for accounting for law for finance >> sure sure >> different industries um and different personas have different use cases and workflows >> yeah it's interesting I haven't thought about it that way because when I think of uh like an AI law firm, I don't think them I don't think about them as like fine-tuning tokens or like running a specific but it is it is it is very much the same. Um how are you thinking about
2:55:59
Um how are you thinking about the mobile versus desktop divide?
2:56:02
you're you're obviously experiencing it on Sora, but are you seeing a uh a bifurcation where you might actually back a company that's saying we're going after mobile gen AI in this particular niche or we're going desktop and is that a meaningful designation or are companies with vibe coding able to kind of uh go multiplatform on day one?
2:56:28
Obviously, OpenAI was but they have a lot of resources.
2:56:31
I think sort of the mobile versus desktop speaks a lot to sort of the user persona and use case.
2:56:36
What we've seen so far is that stuff that blows up on mobile tends to be consumer products where you don't have to put a ton of work into editing the output into having super long prompts.
2:56:47
Things like Sora 2 or like Lensa if you guys remember which blew up a couple years ago now to make these like AI profile pictures of you. >> It was huge.
2:56:56
I think like true um true creative workflows and really detailed editing tend to require bigger screens.
2:57:05
We've actually seen more companies start looking at iPad apps, too, which is crazy to say.
2:57:09
It's not just like four-year-olds on iPads.
2:57:11
It's like real real creative professionals because people love to kind of draw on them.
2:57:15
Um and it and it's a larger screen that enables kind of more knobs and dials. >> Yeah.
2:57:22
uh what are you seeing on uh on the monetization side for pure AI content creators?
2:57:28
I know you track a lot of these accounts.
2:57:30
I'm interested uh to see if if some of these again like not not just a content creator that might use AI here or there, but like a new content creator that only makes AI content, will they monetize via, you know, influencer style marketing?
2:57:45
Will they go straight to doing deals with, you know, the Netflixes or other streaming platforms?
2:57:50
But curious what you think there.
2:57:53
>> Yeah, it's so early it's hard to say.
2:57:53
I think like how it started was people started growing these sort of AI only accounts and monetizing in the traditional ways um which was like ad revenue or kind of some share of the views you got on your video, things like that on platforms like X and and Tik Tok and Instagram.
2:58:10
Um, I've also seen honestly a ton of the ways that AI creators monetize is by selling like prompts or courses or teaching other people how to make the same things just because there's so much demand and most people are not experts at these tools.
2:58:27
Um, I think it's going to be really interesting to see like when we start to see more AI native IP or characters that can like appear in a Netflix show or have a song that they release on Spotify and they kind of get a cut of the streaming revenue.
2:58:41
We've already started to see some of that like that AI actress.
2:58:44
Um, and we've seen some in music too, especially in Asia, but I think we're just at the very early stages of that. >> Yeah.
2:58:52
Um, are you are are you losing the ability to actually define a particular AI virality moment?
2:59:01
Like the Lensza era was definitely a thing.
2:59:04
Everyone had the Magic Avatars.
2:59:06
The Studio Gibli moment was a moment.
2:59:08
Uh, then maybe it was like the Sam Alman stealing GPUs era with Sora, but I feel like we're just now in like the Sora moment.
2:59:16
And maybe it just becomes an era.
2:59:17
But uh and the Italian brain rot like are are are we accelerating?
2:59:23
Are you feeling acceleration where you can't start you can't even track all the memes because they just happen so fast? >> Yes.
2:59:28
I used to keep um basically the spreadsheet where I tracked like the number of impressions as far as I could guess from like certain trends or launches or announcements or things that would happen.
2:59:38
And I gave up on it probably like six or so months ago because there was so many things happening at once.
2:59:44
It was like Nano Banana and V3 and Sora and like two new Chinese models that were amazing and like the World Labs launch like there were just 20 things happening like every day.
2:59:56
>> Um and and I think the interesting thing about that too is like different people are excited by different things.
3:00:01
Like sometimes I talk to people who are really deep in AI creativity but they're really into one part of it and so they don't even know about the other the other launches because it's so hard to keep up with everything right now.
3:00:11
What was the Nano Banana using the Meta Vibes app too much? I can't. I'm sorry.
3:00:15
I don't have time for anything else.
3:00:18
>> What was the What was the Nano Banana like viral like moment or driver?
3:00:20
Like what was the the canonical like thing that you would prompt that Nano Banana did so well that made it really popular?
3:00:30
>> I mean, the the interesting thing about Nano Banana was I think it wasn't just one prompt. It was a series of them.
3:00:36
There was like the Polaroids, putting yourself in a different era, and then there was making yourself an action figure.
3:00:42
And then one I've been following this week on Tik Tok is um like college kids are making videos of them like hugging their younger selves from an image that they create. >> Yeah.
3:00:54
Like with them and their younger self on Nano Banana. >> I'm not a fan. >> I think it's not.
3:01:01
I mean, don't we all want to hug our younger self? >> No, not at all. I say >> toughen up. Toughen up. Pull up the bootstrap.
3:01:08
Pick yourself up by your bootstrap.
3:01:10
I would I would make an >> AI would make an AI video of my younger me picking myself up by my bootstrap. >> There you go. Okay.
3:01:17
So, you know, we're close there.
3:01:19
We're we we we will be participating in like the next slight iteration of the of the viral sensation.
3:01:25
But no, I won't be hugging myself.
3:01:25
That feels very odd to me.
3:01:29
>> You can do a new one of you yelling at your younger self if you want.
3:01:31
This is a free idea or boxing.
3:01:33
Um but yeah, I mean a lot of these are a lot of these are odd.
3:01:36
Stephen Hawking at the X Games is odd.
3:01:38
A cat uh steamrolling its way through a house is odd, but uh I love I love most of those. >> But it's important. >> It is important.
3:01:47
>> Humanity needs these videos. >> I think we do. I think we do. I think we do. >> Laugh. Laughing is important. >> Yeah, creativity. It is. It is creativity.
3:01:56
Whoever prompted it was creative.
3:01:58
I would not have thought to put Stephen Hawking at the X Games and someone did. >> Me neither.
3:02:04
>> Uh what else is are people talking about?
3:02:06
What are the key uh like stress points?
3:02:09
Are people worried about like AI bubble generally?
3:02:11
Is it all just about like let me find the the most efficient inference arbitrage or inference provider, the the best AI factory?
3:02:18
Like what what are the current uh discussions?
3:02:23
I imagine it's not Doom anymore.
3:02:25
That one's kind of moved on.
3:02:27
What what are people talking about at this particular conference?
3:02:30
>> Yeah, we we actually had an investor panel earlier with a bunch of great folks kind of talking about those sorts of things.
3:02:35
Um, I think like the the bubble question is an interesting one.
3:02:39
Um, >> I personally don't think we're in a bubble.
3:02:42
I think like just the true demand for the products is massive and we're seeing companies grow faster than ever before and also retain users higher than ever before.
3:02:52
A lot of a lot of folks like I'm sure you guys do have questions about kind of gross margin.
3:02:56
I think like we find that margins tend to improve over time as you've seen in many eras of consumer software like Amazon and Uber and Door Dash.
3:03:06
Like a lot of these companies were gross margin negative or neutral at the beginning and then kind of become more efficient over time as they scale and and unlock various network effects.
3:03:19
where I would be worried we were in a bubble if the margins were all negative and the retention sucked and you're a lot of money for it >> or if there was only like 100,000 real users or something like that. >> Totally. >> Exactly.
3:03:34
>> Which we've seen before in different tech trends. >> Yeah. Yes. >> Yeah. No, totally. Totally.
3:03:38
I mean, yeah, we just talked uh to Korea like 30 million users is like very significant like and chatbt at close to a billion users.
3:03:47
Like it's just it's just accelerating much faster and the distribution is there and it's a lot because like Stripe exists like you can just actually get 20 bucks a month out of someone pretty easily and you couldn't do that in 1999. It was just no way.
3:04:02
And so you had to say, "Well, we'll monetize the eyeballs later and we'll do ads and people will pay."
3:04:06
And it became this kind of weird circular economy, but now you can just be like, "How much value am I delivering to your business?
3:04:13
Put down your card and we'll pay for it or churn." Uh, which is great.
3:04:18
>> Uh, well, thank you so much for taking the time to stop by during a busy conference.
3:04:22
>> Second podium guest >> time chatting with you. >> I'm honored. Thanks, guys.
3:04:27
>> Have fun at the event and and give our best to everybody there. >> Yes.
3:04:30
And and and just so you know, we're we're coming for your lunch.
3:04:32
We dropped our first market map.
3:04:36
>> I don't know if you saw that, but we dropped a media we dropped a media market map. So now we're in direct.
3:04:41
>> It's not skitso at all.
3:04:42
>> It's not skitso at all.
3:04:43
>> You know, the the competition fuels me, so I'm excited for >> Yeah. Fire back.
3:04:46
Fire back >> with your own market map.
3:04:49
This is like This is like a rap battle for people that uh a rap battle that like five people are interested in. >> Yes.
3:04:58
a rap battle for people who know how to read a term sheet or something.
3:05:02
Uh anyway, thank you so much for stopping by.
3:05:03
We will talk to you soon.
3:05:05
Have a great rest of your day. >> Thanks, guys. >> Goodbye.
3:05:07
>> We got to take go over to this post from Marvin Vonhagen, which is one of the most uh royal names ever.
3:05:15
>> Uh this this man is is destined for uh greatness.
3:05:19
He quoted uh the essay that I published yesterday and and just with two excerpts from my my piece, he said, "The interaction company of California has managed to really break through the noise and deliver a truly novel consumer AI product experience."
3:05:33
Dot dot dot nothing important. Don't worry about it. Pokey.
3:05:38
com itself is a fantastic domain and a name for their business and audience.
3:05:42
So, you just skipped over of course the criticism in there or something. >> No.
3:05:48
Yeah, I was like I was criticizing the general sort of like naming convention, but this was an absolutely perfect response and I I really want to have Marvin on the show.
3:05:55
So Marvin, let's get you on the on the schedule next week. >> Yeah. Yeah.
3:05:59
This is the nature of this was like chef's kiss. Perfect response.
3:06:04
>> Um uh what's going on here?
3:06:04
Uh Austin says you should never use an M dash in your writing anymore.
3:06:10
You will be 100% be accused of using AI, especially if it's on social. >> That is true.
3:06:15
I actually recently like today in the in the newsletter I used just a minus sign instead of an M dash and Brandon was like certainly we can use the mdash here like you intended to use an M dash and I was like no >> we're using the minus sign we're using the wrong thing because I don't want to deal with it's an M dash you used AI or whatever.
3:06:38
So I have completely sacrificed it.
3:06:40
But what does Alyssa pumpkin queen say?
3:06:41
says, "That's what the Clank uh uh dropping the M Dash.
3:06:45
That's what the Clankers want you to do.
3:06:47
Surrender the M dash, but by the grace of God, we will outmaneuver the Clankers, sink our hands into their motherboards, and remind them what mankind can do.
3:06:54
Let the Clanker hold their position.
3:06:57
We won't >> journalistic force." >> Oh, so good.
3:07:03
Uh, by the way, the chat uh chat wants us to do a conference, and Ben Sans says, "I'd go to the conference, but we needed a TVPN cruise." We uh I'm not joking.
3:07:11
We've talked about getting a yacht to park in the San Francisco uh bay and do a conference there.
3:07:21
So, uh I would like to pull that off at some point and the chat will be the first to know.
3:07:26
Uh Ohio has a new bill uh that goes far beyond >> banner marriage.
3:07:34
>> Far beyond banning human AI marriage.
3:07:36
The measure would define AI systems as non-scentient entities, strip them of any claim to legal personhood, forbid them from owning property, holding financial accounts, controlling IP, or acting as company directors.
3:07:47
So, it's basically game on if we get a humanoid.
3:07:51
Like, we can it has no rights in Ohio.
3:07:54
So, if we take it to Ohio, it like the unit is going to be sitting there being like, >> "Hey guys, why why are we going to Ohio?"
3:08:01
Uh, you know, I I'd love to stay in in in a different state because I would hate for you to like destroy me and then face no legal consequences because I have no rights in Ohio.
3:08:12
>> Yeah, this this this Ohio clearly hasn't read uh less wrong.
3:08:19
>> It's not is not familiar with Roco's basilisk.
3:08:22
Um, Ohio might be the first place that the Clankers descend on and and Skynet goes on like really >> they really put themselves in the crosshair the clanker crosshair >> on the aggress on the aggressive.
3:08:34
>> Daniel Tenerero has >> Before we read this, let me tell you about wander. com.
3:08:37
Find your happy place, book a wonder with inspiring dues, hotel, great amenities, dreamy beds, top cleaning 24/7 concier service.
3:08:41
It's a vacation home but better. What did Daniel say?
3:08:44
>> He says, "Finally, some good news, which is that hedge fund assets hit 5 trillion with most inflows since before the financial crisis. Great hit, John.
3:08:54
Uh, assets in the global hedge fund industry have surged to a record 5 trillion as investors poured money into alternatives and funds posted solid gains.
3:09:03
>> Our gong is gifted today. You hear this, right? >> It's still going. Still going. Still going.
3:09:09
Funds saw net inflows of nearly 34 billion in the first three months through September with total returns across all strategies averaging 5. 4% over the quarter.
3:09:18
So underperforming the average terminally online Zoomer that is just massively levered into the MAG 7. Yeah.
3:09:26
>> Uh but uh still still uh uh not not so bad as a whole.
3:09:31
Uh cryptocurrency hedge funds posted solid double-digit gains in the third quarter, recovering from sharp losses in early 2025 to bring year-to- date performance to 6. 7%.
3:09:38
So >> can we play this clip of H.
3:09:41
It's probably too long to react to.
3:09:43
Buco Capital, the legend, says, "I'm always so confused when Tesla goes down on earnings as the business performance is completely irrelevant to the price of the stock.
3:09:54
>> They put up uh over 1.
3:09:54
4 billion, I think, of uh free cash flow as a trillion dollar company." So, that's good. >> They beat earnings. >> Yes.
3:10:03
Uh >> the stock went down.
3:10:04
Is that what >> No, no, no, no.
3:10:06
I think they >> they missed earnings and the stock went up. I don't know.
3:10:08
I I agree with >> No, he's saying they they missed, but he's and the stock traded down and he's like, "Why is it trading?
3:10:16
>> It shouldn't even matter.
3:10:16
It shouldn't even matter.
3:10:19
>> Um, let's skip the the Dorsy reaction.
3:10:21
We got to get out of here. It's Friday.
3:10:23
Uh, we we got to start our weekend."
3:10:25
Um, apparently the the the sale of Tik Tok was upon sacrifice to open up the diplomatic chess board.
3:10:34
And Run says it's pretty bad that Cunping models Tik Tok as spiritual opium and feels okay selling it to the West in a revenge opium war setup.
3:10:45
Uh for Trump facing the sale of the high-profile app was a populist victory framed around national security.
3:10:53
For Cinping, however, the app was a lowcost bargaining chip.
3:10:55
He had privately dismissed it as spiritual opium according to the people close to Beijing and viewed it as easy sacrifice to secure the continued dialogue on China that that China needed.
3:11:07
Um, that makes a ton of sense.
3:11:11
>> In more important geopolitical news, Justin Bieber is on Twitch.
3:11:13
Michael Seel says, "Almost 19 years after we got started, we finally got Bieber. So, never give up."
3:11:20
Um, and this was, I think, my favorite post of the week.
3:11:25
It's now been uh deleted.
3:11:25
I won't read the user's name, but I I I I think it's funny.
3:11:31
Uh it was a post that said, "I honestly don't care if I get fired.
3:11:33
I was part of the illegal gambling ring with Chanty Bilips and Terry Rose here.
3:11:41
My name is Andy Jasse and I work at Amazon."
3:11:44
So >> these these like fake framing someone who did something is so >> shareholders.
3:11:50
shareholders or >> I I didn't realize that like the there was a retail army for for Andy Jasse that cared about Andy Jasse and and and Amazon.
3:11:59
>> Yeah, it's tough when your stock goes up 20% year to date and people are still like calling for >> uh you to to to be fired.
3:12:05
Um >> but uh >> I think that's a good place to call it.
3:12:11
Uh we've had a fantastic >> You know where we're going to call it show.
3:12:14
Where are we going to call it?
3:12:15
>> Uh we're going to call it with with Gabe over at Sora.
3:12:18
Sora was dethroned in the app store by Dave's Hot Chicken.
3:12:24
>> Play the W >> and uh Sora and a Eagle sound effect for Dave because uh something their team I think is just really cracked because I don't think this is the first time they've like charted number one.
3:12:38
>> I think most people think that the Dave's Hot Chicken team is like one notch above the OpenAI team >> in terms of just you know product design growth. >> Yeah.
3:12:46
just IQ and uh and strategy research.
3:12:51
Yeah, these types of things.
3:12:51
I think most people think uh it's sort of like, you know, a hot bed of the best talent in the world. >> Absolutely. >> So, I'm unsurprised.
3:13:00
No, seriously, the the Dave's Hot Chicken Team must be cooking because something crazy happened in their marketing because to go to the top of the charts, even if it's momentum based, that means that they had some campaign that just hit.
3:13:12
And it's not like it's the Super Bowl right now.
3:13:14
Like they must have had some crazy call to action to get that app to the top of the store.
3:13:19
But congratulations to over everyone at Dave's Hot Chicken. I'm a huge fan.
3:13:23
I order Dave's Hot Chicken all the time. Maybe I should the app.
3:13:24
I usually use Dorchester.
3:13:27
>> Never ordered it to the Ultra Dome. >> No, I haven't.
3:13:28
But uh >> more of a weekend thing.
3:13:31
>> More of a weekend thing. More of a weekend thing.
3:13:32
But Dave's Hot Chicken is awesome. Highly recommend.
3:13:35
>> It is almost a weekend for our our East Coast audience.
3:13:39
If you're on the West Coast, we're going to we're >> continue your lock in.
3:13:42
Please stay locked in at least until 5.
3:13:44
Hopefully you're not leaving the office at 5 because it just looks bad.
3:13:49
It's like you just were hanging out. >> Yeah.
3:13:52
>> Um trying to trying to get the optics in.
3:13:55
But uh we had a really fun week.
3:13:55
Uh uh next week is going to be wild as well.
3:13:59
I think it's going to be a magnificent week. >> I think so, too.
3:14:02
>> It's going to be absolutely magnificent.
3:14:03
>> I think it will be magnificent.
3:14:05
>> And uh I can't wait to be back.
3:14:05
So have a wonderful Friday.
3:14:07
Have a wonderful Saturday. Have a wonderful Sunday.
3:14:09
We will be counting down the hours until we are going live again on Monday.
3:14:12
And thank you for tuning in. >> Goodbye. >> Cheers.