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Album 12, baby. Can you believe it? >> No. >> Isn't it amazing? >> It's pretty wild.
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I honestly I wake up in the morning and I think I can't believe that only um that we're still doing this, but honestly like it's still so it feels so good.
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>> We rehearse every day. >> Yeah.
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>> And just to be in the room with the guys and rehearsing new songs or writing new songs it it's like it still feels so good.
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>> Probably more precious than ever in a way and I can hear that in the playing on this.
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Even on that song there hearing Nate just up and down the scale like just restless and engaged and hungry to add value, you know? >> You know, it's funny.
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We had this conversation the other day while we were rehearsing that song.
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And um and we you know, we're trying to get it as tight as we can and then the second half of that song that you just heard where it because where it starts to build up >> Caught in the echo for the people that are watching this on a podcast level, yes.
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>> And so we were everybody was really focused on doing what we did on the record.
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So I was doing this part and it builds this way and Chris is up here in this thing doing this.
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Nate's got this bassline.
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And we're working on it and it's building building building and I'm like I'm like okay, it needs to be like it it needs to feel bigger. It needs to feel more. >> off. >> Needs to take off.
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It needs to be less less here and more here.
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Less in the head, more in the heart.
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And I said something I was like I said, you know it it feels like we're we're playing it's sort of tentative, you know, we're not just going there.
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You know, so so forget about that like tentative what did we do on the record kind of thing.
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Just go into this place of total reckless confidence where like and where it's just you know, where it's Sonic Youth or where it's Nation of Ulysses or whatever it is.
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It's like, let's get there.
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That's what's going to make it.
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And I we we did one more run through the song and I looked at Nate and he wasn't even [laughter] I don't know if he was playing in time, but he was just going like on his bass. It was like a washboard.
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He was going and it made this like Motorhead rumble and I was like, okay, we finally got it.
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That's how we should do it. >> the assignment.
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He understood the assignment. >> Yeah.
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>> He understood the assignment. >> He got there. And so, um it's that.
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It's those moments where you know, we're getting ready to go back out and do some shows and Pat, you know, had broken his leg and >> How is he by the way? Can we say he's good?
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>> And the other day we've been rehearsing all this new stuff and Pat said he says uh hey, we need to start we need to rehearse some of the older stuff.
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Like I haven't played the old songs since last year.
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Cuz he's been out because of his broken leg.
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>> [snorts] >> So, we started rehearsing and he shows up the studio.
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I think it was yesterday and he goes, I am so EXCITED TO PLAY.
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>> [laughter] >> HE WAS AND I DON'T KNOW IF I'VE ever heard him that excited.
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He was like, I am so and it just it's, you know, it's contagious. >> It is.
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>> And then we were like, yeah, we are too. It was amazing.
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>> How do you even choose?
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Like I know you're doing stadiums and and you've been known to do very long shows and and you know, while the heart is beating strong and the songs want you to be want want to be played, you're going to keep going all night.
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But still, we're on 12 albums right here.
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And any Foo Fighters fan who's buying a ticket, myself included, my family, my friends who've been to so many Foo Fighters shows, who are going to come to these shows.
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We've [snorts] all got our favorites.
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Everyone's got their favorites and everyone's so how are you I know you're the boss, but how are you figuring out how to play everything or the ones and you know, how do you even approach that this time for Take Cover?
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>> You know, it's with this with this new record and this new stuff every single song feels great.
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I think it's because the way the songs were written, the way it was recorded everything [snorts] is very it's kind of simple and direct and it's it has more to do with energy than any sort of proficiency. It's like the vibes. >> direct.
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I don't know how simple Spat Shine is when I hear it.
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I mean it's got [laughter] some >> It doesn't matter.
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IT'S JUST LIKE >> [screaming] >> AND SO SO ALL OF THESE NEW songs feel really great. >> Yeah.
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>> And so that's 10 new songs that we're going to have to add to an already 26 song setlist. >> Yeah.
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>> And [snorts] um you know for years one of my favorite things about playing shows is the connection with the audience.
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And it's most important to me the connection with the audience and that connection happens in moments where everyone joins together in a chorus.
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So if it's Best of You or it's Everlong or it's Times Like These or it's Learn to Fly or it's Pretender or it's All My Life or it's blah blah blah.
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Those are the moments that like that that's the that's the gluten, dude.
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That's the thing that like really pulls everything together.
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So to me you know, I wouldn't I wouldn't want to go and lose that connection by veering off into long periods of obscurity.
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I'm like I'm all about Queen at Live Aid. You know what I mean?
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>> I'm going to disagree WITH YOUR POLICE WORK THERE, LOU.
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I mean I only say this [laughter] because I've spent I've spent countless times at shows and when you do pull out a Hey Johnny Park or you do pull out something that's like oh You must see the faces of the people who are like yeah.
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Like I cannot wait for Breakout.
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But I'm so glad you played that.
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>> So okay, so we have sort of these three tiers.
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It's kind of like a lasagna.
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We have these three tiers where it's [snorts] like I want to play every new song we have because it feels so good and I'm so energized. >> That's the pasta. >> It feels great.
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Well, that's kind of Yeah, I think that actually, you know what?
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That might be the cheese on top. >> I don't know, man.
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I still feel like maybe Learn to Fly might be the cheese on top and then you got the Well, look, you own this >> Here's Here's the way I look at it.
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Here's the way I look at it.
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So, all right, say you're doing a three three-tier. >> Yeah. >> Right? >> Yeah.
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>> You know, the first thing you do is you want to put some sauce on the bottom. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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>> And that's kind of like if you're going to put the sauce on the bottom so you don't burn that first layer of pasta let's maybe put, you know, put an All My Life in there just to make sure it's a nice like little foundation of the thing.
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And [snorts] then you hit it with a layer of pasta, all right?
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Um that layer of pasta, that's going to be something >> [snorts] >> something something with, you know, with with some substance, you know. >> Yeah. Yeah.
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>> I would say from from the new album that might be Caught in the Echo, it might be Of All the People, it might be And then right, so then you start like seasoning and you get sauce, a little more sauce, a little more cheese.
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Then you get to your second level, right?
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>> And um so at this point you're like in the middle of the lasagna and that takes the longest to sort of like cook, right?
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That could be Maybe that's an A320, maybe that's a Hey, Johnny Park, maybe that's a Stacked Actors, maybe that's a La Dee Da.
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>> this lasagna or a pot?
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>> From our past lasagnas?
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>> From our lasagnas that sit on the shelf that people people queue up to eat this lasagna.
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This is a special lasagna. >> It's filling. It's a whole meal. >> Very filling.
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>> But you don't need a side.
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You don't need like Briny Scent of Like you just like this one chunk of lasagna. >> Yeah.
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>> Then you can get full.
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>> Do you know what's great about a Foo Fighters lasagna as well?
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Just like all great lasagnas, they are still great three days later.
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>> Let me tell you, nothing like leftover lasagna.
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>> Nothing [laughter] like leftover lasagna we're talking about right now.
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>> We're leftover lasagna at this point. >> god.
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>> No, but so it's a trip.
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So I'm looking at these 26 songs that we played at the last show we did and now we have 10 more songs.
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So I got to be honest, man, the shows are going to be they're going to be big long shows.
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>> And you got to play Asking for a Friend.
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You have to play that one.
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>> Asking for a Friend, which we haven't done much.
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We've only done, I think, once or twice.
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>> That is a 747 taking off at full speed.
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It It That song to me is when when I got smacked by that at the end of the album the first listen, I was floored by that song.
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Like the changes, the musicality, the passion you're throwing into it, the words, everything coming together.
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I can imagine when you were making the album that song presented itself and you were very thrilled to make its acquaintance.
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>> Well, you know, it's funny.
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So last year we released a a song called Today's Song. >> Yeah.
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>> And that was just a stand-alone thing that we recorded >> [snorts] >> and um and put it out.
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You know, we still work in a lot of old school systems and ways, methods.
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It's like, wait, you could just release one song, put it out?
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This is It shouldn't be a whole part of a whole record?
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Everyone's like, no, no, no, just put it out. So we put it out.
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>> But you also put it out with a with a pretty important message about the history of the band.
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It It felt like it had real purpose, that song. >> Yeah, it did.
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You know, that was a that to me it was a continuation of this thing that we've built over the last 30 years, you know, and >> It felt like a lovely letter to the fans and a way of saying thank you, but we're we're here and we're not we're just getting started again on a new one.
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That's what it felt like. >> Yeah, it did.
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And and also, you know, just for the band to still be so connected and in our lives, you know, not just musically. >> Yeah.
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>> But then so then a little while later um I'd been recording and demoing a bunch of stuff in my house and um And I think it was like the day that Alain joined, I said, "Hey, come on over. Come to the house. Let's record something."
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And he came over and we did the drums to that, you know, in an hour or something like that.
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And that was kind of the beginning.
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So, that song that [clears throat] song was different than the other songs on the record in its in its um composition and that it there's like multiple time signatures and there's bigger moments, faster moments, quiet moments, louder moments.
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And um then we started doing these club gigs um kind of, you know, to prepare for tours that were coming up, but also to like to really get connected with Alain, >> Yeah. >> our drummer.
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And so and the energy of those gigs, those were those gigs where we were pulling out like like Winnebago, like a song the first song we ever released. >> and I was so bummed.
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I was like, "I haven't seen that live and I was supposed to be at that show and I couldn't make it."
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And I was like "YOU'RE A DICK, ZANE."
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>> SO, we started pulling out like all of these cuz we knew that the people who would be there would really like get their teeth in it and understand.
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So, it was the energy of those shows that really inspired this record.
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It was like, "Oh, wow, man.
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Like let's the the feeling of a small space of three and a half minute long song where you're just like just banging, you know?
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Um that really inspired the energy of this and like Yeah, that's what That's what we love to do.
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As much as, you know, we love some of those bigger, more orchestrated compositions that we've had over the years, it's like right now that's what we want to do and it feels so good.
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>> You know, you you could pick up a guitar at this point in your life and I'm sure you do and write a song because you you feel like doing it.
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You something you want to say.
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You may not even be thinking about recording it at that point.
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It's it's just a part of who you are.
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It's a part of your psychology, a part of your spirit. >> Yeah.
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>> It's an extension of your life. >> Yeah. >> And living your life.
11:33
But the question is like as someone who has to pick 10 songs to go on a new Foo Fighters album, on album number 12, yeah, how do you know the bar is high enough?
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How do you know when it's time to commit a song to tape and have the courage to release it that it's time that that's going to that's going to be a song that you're going to stand by and play?
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>> Well, first of all, you set the bar yourself.
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So, you don't let anybody else set the bar.
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So, in listening to all of these demos that we had done, there was this batch, this one this one clump, this group of songs that just sort of randomly popped up together on a playlist.
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It was like 10 or 11 12 songs and they they just had this this energy that was almost like an urgency.
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Some of them didn't have lyrics to them.
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Some of them were just like a sound.
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Um and for whatever reason, it's like that in our little world, in our little band, that's what felt necessary at the time.
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And I think that's the most important thing.
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It's like, yeah, I mean, I want to I want to record them well.
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I want them to be tight and written in a way that's makes sense, you know? >> Mhm.
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>> Um but beyond that, it's like the expectation is really within the room more so than outside of the room.
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>> But how do you get outside of yourself to get there because this Okay, let's go back to to day one.
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We've known each other from the >> Yeah.
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You just making it up, man.
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You just I don't know what the Foo Fighters sounds like.
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You don't know what the Foo Fighters sounds like at that point. You're figuring it out.
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Now you have this beautiful back catalog of incredible songs you just rattled off, you know, 26 songs which are must-watches and must-listen-tos at a gig.
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So, how do you get beyond that to a place where it's where you realize that it's new cuz it's got to feel new to let it go, right?
13:24
You can't go over old ground. You just can't.
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>> No, I mean, you know, I have to go scream these things every night. >> Yeah.
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>> So, I have to get up on stage and really like feel it as it's coming out of my chest, you know?
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>> [snorts] >> And so, it's those songs There are some songs that we have that we just never play cuz I just don't feel it, you know?
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And >> I don't even want to ask you.
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I wouldn't have wanted you to answer.
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>> a bunch I mean, there's a lot We have 180 songs or whatever.
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We've got a lot of songs. >> Yeah.
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>> And um so, there's some that were really fun to record.
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And they were these like these nice compositions.
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But man, it's like when I sing Best of You, I still feel it. >> Yeah.
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>> When I sing All My Life, it's like I still feel it.
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When I sing a song like Of All People or Spitfire or Caught in the Echo, it's like I really feel it.
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And that's what I want to do when we jump up on stage and play. >> Yeah.
14:16
>> And so, um while at the same time it's like, you know, you're talking about just picking up a guitar and playing for the hell of it.
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Last night I I don't sleep.
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So, I wake up at like 2:00 in the morning.
14:28
And did you hear Billy Strings broke his broke his leg? Did you hear about this? It's not funny.
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Breaking your leg really sucks. >> No, but still.
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>> Um but um I got the call yesterday.
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It was like, "Hey, do you hear about Billy Strings?" Who I love. >> Yeah. >> Um he's total badass. He broke his leg.
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You might want to um give him the throne that you had on tour.
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And so, a friend of mine did a documentary on him and I'm like, "Hey, tell Billy that you know, that he can have the throne." >> No, I gave it to Axl. >> gave it to Axl. That's right. It was your throne.
15:04
You I was trying to [laughter] figure out who got the throne. >> of made the rounds.
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A couple different people have used it, but it's kind of become that thing that, you know, how would you you broke your leg?
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You want to borrow the throne? >> Yeah.
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>> [snorts] >> But so, um anyway, so uh I got in touch with him and said like, "Hey man, you know, there's light at the end of the tunnel.
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I know you feel like now, but you know, you're going to come out the other end with some new hardware and you'll be good or whatever.
15:28
And then in the middle of the night, he has this song called Guild the Lily, which is such a beautiful song. It's so beautiful.
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It just it reminds me of being a child in Virginia.
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It just has this comfortable, beautiful melody.
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It's just so it's so great.
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I sat up for about two and a half or three hours last night learning all the guitar parts to that song for no reason.
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Just cuz I love the song so much and I'm just sitting there in the dark.
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First I'm like trying to figure it out by ear, then I'm like, okay, I'm watching my fingers and then I turn out the lights.
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So I'm not watching my fingers.
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I'm just lying there in bed at 4:00 in the morning playing this thing.
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And it's like that's the that's the thing.
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That's the thing that keeps it going for this long.
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That's the thing that since the you first saw us 30 years ago >> Yeah, yeah.
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>> to where we're at today.
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It's like that's the feeling.
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The feeling of being in love with the instrument that's in the corner of the room and just [clears throat] lying in bed at 4:00 in the morning and just playing for no other reason than to hear something that you love, you know.
16:36
>> that story so much because it it really draws a strong distinct connection between the naive kid who was just going out wondering if he there was even a road for you to go on after what had happened.
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And the guy who now knows has this road laid out as beautifully paved with more miles to run.
16:52
And I thought about that and I you know, I watched the Best of Summer.
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I watched Hamish's documentary. I loved it.
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And I said to him when I was watching if people don't know, it's a beautiful documentary captured during one amazing festival run in Australia and parts of Asia, which had the greatest lineup of all time in the '90s.
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Foo Fighters are on there.
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Billy on in the in the evening time.
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I was at the show in Melbourne. I'll never forget it.
17:11
And I what I loved about watching that documentary is in the moments when you're being interviewed.
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First of all, it's obviously the first time you've been interviewed post-Kurt's death.
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It's clear that you're only comfortable really talking to Tamara at that moment in time cuz we weren't getting anywhere near you even at the early stages of my journalistic career.
17:29
No one was getting anywhere near you. >> Right.
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>> And you could see that you were just figuring it out in real time like I'm with my friends. I'm safe.
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People love this I [snorts] might actually get away with this.
17:48
I might actually be able to do this. Is that fair to say?
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That's what it struck >> 1,000%.
17:54
>> struck me as watching on camera for sure. >> it.
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>> Yeah, I mean at the time um it's so Okay, so my daughter Violet, she's putting out a record and she's in the early stages >> We know, man.
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We've played all her songs. >> It's really cool.
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>> I was the one calling her manager going, "Bandcamp's all cool and everything, but can I play [laughter] it on the radio now?"
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>> But, you know, I'm watching Violet um enter into this this new world, this new life, this new phase, whatever it is.
18:25
First of all, she has it here, too.
18:27
She's had it since she was a kid. You just know.
18:30
>> That's why it's working, yeah.
18:31
>> So, um but watching her do all of these things that that I remember like doing in store at Fingerprints.
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I remember you know, running from interview to video and all of these things.
18:49
And um and it's made me think about about then a lot more.
18:53
It's like watching her kind of go through this thing.
18:58
It's I'm revisiting a lot of how I felt and she and I talk about it and in the in the moments of feeling overwhelmed or feeling tired or feeling busy, do like that.
19:11
Um and I look back at that time and we were we were flying by the seat of our pants.
19:16
Like we There was no There was no attention or focus on any sort of musical proficiency.
19:21
There was no It was just a vibe and it was it was just because we all It's like we all needed to be there.
19:29
You know, Will and Nate coming out of Sunny Day Real Estate.
19:33
Yeah, they're a great rhythm section. Their band fell apart. Yeah.
19:35
And it was like me and Pat having been through everything we'd been together with with Nirvana, it's like we all kind of needed to be there.
19:44
And um and there've there've been moments in our timeline where it's like, man, not only do we need each other, but we need this band. We need this music. Yeah.
19:53
You know, like the third our third record, Nothing Left to Lose.
19:59
Um, at that time it was like 1998 or '99 or something.
20:04
We were let go of our contract out of this key man clause thing and whatever.
20:08
And so we were free to do whatever we wanted to do. So what did we do?
20:10
We decided to build a studio in my basement in Virginia and just go record at our own pace and it was literally like it was me and Taylor and Nate and our producer Adam and we'd wake up in the morning and have coffee and a bagel and then we'd shoot hoops for a little while and then we'd go and record some stuff and then we'd hit the chili place and eat some chili and then we'd have beers and watch Tenacious D on TV and then we'd go to sleep.
20:36
That was like a typical day in the studio.
20:37
And [snorts] the the album, because it was made that way, had that feeling.
20:42
And it's like that's what we needed to do at the time.
20:47
We didn't need to like jump into the game.
20:49
We needed to like go home and make a record.
20:53
>> But this is after Color and the Shape, which is I feel where the innocence was compromised a little bit by it by by this kind of like, okay, we're not on the This is not playtime just anymore.
21:02
Like That was to me as a fan when tough decisions had to get made. >> Yeah.
21:07
>> You know, that was where you know, Foo Fighters showing up at an MTV Awards playing Everlong wasn't like a weird how did who let them in moment. Do you know what I mean?
21:14
It felt like There was a moment of innocence that we all felt on the first album. >> Yeah.
21:24
>> Going and watching you play. >> Yeah.
21:26
>> Watching 50,000 people show up at 3:00 in the afternoon only for you. With your chewing gum. ALL RIGHT, LET'S do it. 40 minutes later, bye. See you. Have a good time.
21:34
Coming up next is Jawbreaker. >> Yeah.
21:37
>> You know, it was like it was beautiful and innocent and I felt like maybe I guess the question here, there has to be one.
21:44
Did it Did Did that Did that evaporate even a little too fast for you?
21:46
Did Could you have Do you wish it had just been a little bit more free for a little longer than when it was like, damn, Graham Norton, we have to let go, you know, all these big plans.
21:58
>> you know, that was intentional, actually.
22:00
It was like you know, that first Foo Fighters record wasn't a band record.
22:03
It was just a demo thing that I'd done by myself. >> Mhm.
22:07
>> And it was, you know, it was loose and it was raw and it was like cool.
22:10
The challenge was rather than do the thing that a lot of bands would do where they'd make their first record and it was really produced and then they'd say like, no, no, no, that.
22:19
We're going to make the raw record. >> Yeah.
22:21
>> It was like, we did the opposite of that.
22:22
It's like we did the raw record.
22:24
We're like, no, no, no, that.
22:24
Let's make our Boston record.
22:25
Let's make our like hyper-produced rock hit record. That was the intention. >> Congratulations. Achieved. >> Thank you. And so, but that was it.
22:34
It was like, man, I don't want to make a punk rock record right now. I've never done this.
22:38
Like I've never gone in and made like a Foreigner record or gone [snorts] like a classic rock record.
22:45
And, you know, we still like lived with our sort of punk rock past and our our cool like, hey, we're just a bunch of guys in a van sort of eat those. >> Yeah.
22:54
>> But then that was intentional to make a record like that.
22:56
Just as like, you know, every record is a response to the one that's come before.
23:00
So, that So, we go through the hyper crazy Color in the Shape Gil Norton produced [snorts] album.
23:08
And then we hit the road and it's like we hit it so hard and we were kind of sort of testing the limits of this next step, this next level. >> Mhm.
23:19
>> It wasn't entirely up to us, either.
23:21
It's like if you like the songs, like then, you know, I'll put on a nicer shirt and we'll play it again, kind of thing.
23:28
And then [clears throat] the next album was that Nothing Left to Lose record where we're like, "Wait a Wait a minute.
23:34
We should be doing this in my basement. What are we doing?" >> Mhm.
23:37
>> And then the next one we started in the basement and then we built a studio and that's when things sort of evolved from there. And um yeah. What was the question? >> That's beautiful. >> Thanks, man. >> mad answer. It's perfect.
23:51
>> [laughter] >> I've never asked you this.
23:52
Did it ever real talk, did it did it ever cross your mind or did you ever have conversations with Chris about this given that you and Pat continued in some capacity and whilst you remain friends with him >> Yeah.
24:05
>> he did not come along the musical journey with you.
24:09
>> You know, we we never had like a deeper longer conversation about it.
24:14
But after Nirvana ended, I think that um I think that we all wound up in places that felt um I don't want to say comfortable, but safe.
24:29
And so um so when I went into the studio and recorded that stuff by myself, I felt safe there, you know? >> Mhm.
24:39
>> Um and I can't speak for Chris, but I think at that time it was like we were just trying to get our feet back on the ground. >> Mhm.
24:47
>> For me, that's something that I thought, "Okay, well, music is the thing that's going to rescue me."
24:53
And um for Chris, I think that some maybe some sort of stability or security in maybe backing backing off a little bit.
25:05
That might have been what what he felt he needed to do.
25:07
But we didn't really ever have that that deeper longer conversation.
25:12
And Pat, the funniest thing is I I didn't think Pat would be our guitar player. I just sent him a tape.
25:21
I sent him one of the early cassettes and he was like, "Oh my god, it's so poppy." And I'm like, "Is it?
25:25
Cuz okay, is that [laughter] a good thing?"
25:27
And to Pat to Pat that is a great thing.
25:31
And I was like and I had already started jamming with Nate Mendel and um and uh I was like, "If you want to play guitar?"
25:42
I didn't [snorts] expect that he would, you know?
25:43
And then he decided that he would jam with us and it was great. >> Oh, was it great?
25:48
Oh my god, there's very few things that you would get more joy out of out of than watching phase one of Pat Smear Foo Fighters 90s energy on stage in his bag like nobody else. I mean unbelievable.
26:02
>> I mean if you look at like like in the movie that you were just referring to. >> Unmatched.
26:08
>> You know, I'm wearing like >> [snorts] >> you know, Jawbreaker t-shirt or something and shorts and like high-tops and and Pat will be wearing like a full flight attendant outfit.
26:19
Female flight attendant outfit.
26:22
And then they it's like >> gold lamé pants and a frilly shirt just for the of it. Like in a boa, yeah.
26:30
>> So it was really it was it was a beautiful it was a beautiful combination of personalities. Still is. >> Still is.
26:37
>> Still is. We're going to get back to this new record in a second, but to close the loop on this beautiful little reflection um it's been really joyous watching you and Chris come back on stage and and and
26:46
over the course of these various reasons to celebrate anniversaries and whatnot, Rock and Roll Hall of Fame inductions, all these really great things that I I really want to honestly say as your friend, but as a fan as well, thank you for leaning into them. You know, it's
26:57
You know, it's it's very easy for people to to to accept the honor, but not go in.
27:01
You guys went in, and you really you really paid respect to that part of your life, and it felt like it gave you some closure as well, which I think is really beautiful.
27:11
>> You know, it's such a weird thing to feel like there are songs to to to feel afraid to play songs.
27:20
You know, and for a long time, it's like I was even afraid just to sit down at a drum set and play the opening riff to Smells Like Teen Spirit. >> Yeah.
27:29
>> And so, it just seemed sort of forbidden, you know?
27:33
And um so, the few times that that Chris and Pat and I have gotten together to do it, it's it's a trip.
27:41
I mean, it's like a time warp.
27:44
It's like a time capsule.
27:44
And the the noise that the three of us make together, >> Undeniable.
27:52
>> it that you don't really get that noise anywhere else. >> You don't.
27:56
>> And so, when you're in the room and it happens, the way that Chris the way that Chris strums his his basslines, the bass that he uses, the equipment he uses, his sense of feel and time, it's like all of those things combined with Pat like with that crazy Germs Pat Smear guitar thing, and then some loud ass drums, it's like when it happens, you're just like, "Oh, I remember this.
28:21
I haven't heard this in, you know, 35 years. Oh my god."
28:22
And it's it's a really beautiful sound and a beautiful feeling.
28:31
>> W- W- W- Was Kurt deep down through all of the fight, was he built for those things?
28:35
Would he have seen a Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction or an anniversary or something that you think he would have got to a place where he'd have been like, "Yeah, man, it. Lean in."
28:42
>> That is a really good question.
28:42
I mean, I think that um you know, I always go back to to when we flew to New York to talk to record companies um, to sign a deal before Nevermind came out.
28:58
And we sat down in this high-rise uh, major label office with this like super powerful executive who was sitting you know, behind a giant oak desk >> [snorts] >> and listening to the song on stun volume and then me and Chris and Kurt on the other side of the desk and these low chairs like it looked like we were being punished at school or something.
29:23
And the And the song ends and he says, "Okay, what do you guys want?"
29:31
And Kurt says, "We want to be the biggest band in the world."
29:35
And I was like, I I think we all laughed. >> Okay.
29:38
>> [laughter] >> I don't know if he was kidding.
29:39
I still to this day I think about it.
29:41
I'm like, you know, considering where we were from and our our whole musical timeline existence, it's like, well, first of all, that's impossible because it was 1990 and you know, all these pop stars were were on top of the charts.
29:58
It was kind of like, uh, you know, that's that's just it's funny or maybe it's irony or I don't know, whatever.
30:03
But there was part of me that was like, you know, these songs that he wrote, I think he wrote them to be heard.
30:12
Um, it got a lot com- got more complicated after so many people sort of joined the party, but um, but I I think that maybe most songwriters when they write songs, um, it's like you want them to be heard or you want them to be felt or you want not that it's necessarily validation, but you want you you want someone to to feel what you feel.
30:42
Just as a listener wants to feel what the artist feels.
30:47
It's like I maybe it's empathy.
30:48
It's just this feeling of like I want everyone to feel this thing that I feel.
30:54
I hope someone up maybe one other person in the world will feel the way I feel or understand the way I feel.
31:02
Um so I don't know what the exact intention was.
31:07
But um but I do know that Kurt was one of the greatest songwriters of all time and it was inevitable.
31:16
Like what happened those songs it was it was inevitable that his songs would be recognized as some of the greatest songs of all time.
31:25
>> Could you hear him sing from the drum kit even with the speakers going the other way?
31:30
>> Sometimes in rehearsals, yeah.
31:30
I mean the early rehearsals he we had one monitor I think that just had his vocal in it and I could hear him screaming.
31:40
That's a crazy thing too about his voice.
31:41
It's like he his his scream was like chainsaw.
31:47
His pitch was so spot on. >> I know.
31:51
>> And his range was crazy.
31:51
It's one of the craziest things when we do these Nirvana things with someone else singing.
31:55
Oh my god it's hard to find someone who can do what he did. >> Yeah.
32:00
>> Cuz his range it's almost the same thing with Chris Cornell. >> Yeah.
32:02
>> Those singers it's like they're up here but they're also down here and they find that pitch and but within that there's like the heart and the soul. >> Lane. >> Lane. >> Oh my god dude.
32:12
Here's the best thing about having um of of driving around with uh Violet or Harper um in a car.
32:24
I have this new found love of Alice in Chains. >> Same. >> Like it it's back. >> I know.
32:30
>> I I'm I'm like They're like my favorite band.
32:32
They should have been 35 years ago but now I'm like wait, where was I on that one?
32:37
That's kind of But anyway, but yes, I mean, it's it's those those magical people in those magical moments that >> Yeah.
32:47
>> just become a part of your We actually talked about this about how every song you hear becomes like a strand in your DNA.
32:54
Like those lyrics and those songs >> Yes. >> become a part of you. >> It's a chemical.
32:58
It actually alters your chemistry.
33:00
And this is why music is magic.
33:04
Because I can So, I have playlists.
33:04
I have Alice in Chains playlists.
33:06
I have multiple Nirvana playlists.
33:08
I have multiple Foo Fighters playlists.
33:09
I have Dave Grohl's feelings playlists.
33:14
I have I have deep cuts playlists, you know, just the stuff you probably won't play at the stadium shows, maybe one or two. >> Maybe.
33:21
>> And you put And you know, you you put it on depending on what mood you're in.
33:25
And it would just adjust the way you move for the rest of the day.
33:27
And everybody you come into contact with is affected by that particular mood, and it has a ripple effect every second of every day.
33:34
That That music thing, man, it is magic. >> It is.
33:36
There's a huge connectivity in the energy of music.
33:41
Just as there is in the connectivity in the energy of everything, you know?
33:46
It goes back to that deal deGrasse Tyson quote.
33:48
The most astounding fact is that the atoms that comprise uh life on Earth um were scattered around the universe um from stars imploding and spreading their enriched guts and the the carbon and the nitrogen and oxygen.
34:08
And so, when you look up at the night sky, you shouldn't feel far away.
34:13
You should feel connected to those stars because like stardust, you know? That's all we are.
34:20
We're comprised of the same atoms that are scattered throughout the universe.
34:24
And I think the same thing can be said of music.
34:25
Every single note you've ever heard is somewhere inside of you for your entire life, you know? It's awesome. >> It's awesome.
34:34
I watch my mom who's suffering from significant dementia dementia now.
34:38
She's in the final stages, I feel.
34:41
And um it's certainly like, you know, the the communication is is limited to non-existent from a conventional point of view, but the music >> Oh, yeah. >> Woof. >> 100%. >> In the room.
34:52
>> My mother um I don't know, a few years year before she passed she was in the hospital and she had had um she had had a stroke.
35:02
And [snorts] um she she was stable, but a bit unresponsive and slow.
35:11
And um you know, we stayed with her her entire recovery, but I thought about all of those those like videos that you'd seen on YouTube of people who were in desperate condition and someone plays them a song. >> Yeah.
35:27
>> And um so I'm like, you know what?
35:29
I'm going to play her [clears throat] some Manhattan Transfer. >> Perfect.
35:33
>> Which was like her favorite like the boy from New York City. >> Amazing.
35:37
>> And I remember like playing that like, "Check it out, Mom.
35:40
It's Manhattan Transfer." And it worked. It worked.
35:46
I hope someone does that to me, man. >> man.
35:48
Oh, I'm already making my playlist. >> Hey, Dad.
35:52
LOOK, IT'S BLACK FLAG OR WHATEVER. >> Now listen. Now listen.
35:54
At some point in the next 5 years, being 91, I'm going to lose my marbles.
35:57
And when I do, press play on that. >> [laughter] >> Really?
36:00
You want to That's a playlist you need to make right there. >> Really?
36:03
You want to start with 46 and 2 by Tool? I do.
36:04
Press [laughter] play on that and off we go. >> Guys, he's smiling. He's smiling. >> He's smiling.
36:17
He's so happy when he hears Adam.
36:19
>> [laughter] >> So good.
36:21
You know, those moments that you share with the family, the order of things, right?
36:24
And I as sad as it is to see the people who that love you unconditionally leave you, it is the order of things in a way.
36:29
It's something to be grateful for in a strange way. >> 1,000%.
36:32
>> And it really brings home the fact that you get to and we talked about this before with Violet, get to really see your your life through the family lens and through your music.
36:40
I think about this album being recorded at home.
36:41
I think about the last time I saw any footage of you recording your album at home, you were throwing the kids in the pool.
36:49
>> Yeah, >> [laughter] >> that's crazy.
36:51
>> And now they're touring and building lives for themselves and doing what they want to do and and I wonder how that kind of resonated with you as you were back in your studio making this record in that space and that in that spot above the garage or whatever, you know?
37:03
>> Well, you know, I think that um I think the the feeling of home, the idea of home Was it a Tom Waits song? A house is not a home.
37:16
Yeah, it's like >> You've written a song called home. It's a great song.
37:20
>> That is I can't even play that's one I can't play. >> love that song. >> It's too emotional. >> that.
37:25
>> Listen, Pat's trying to get me to do it on the next tour.
37:28
>> you to because I think it's one of those ones that I've never heard live and it and it's and it's a real it's a keeper, man.
37:33
>> Yeah, um but no, it's like as we've talked about, I'm sure over the years, that the environment in which you make an album or create anything um determines the outcome of what you're doing. >> Mhm.
37:48
>> You know, it's why people talk about Bowie's Berlin years. >> Mhm.
37:52
>> People talk about Muscle Shoals.
37:52
People talk about it's it's an environment and an atmosphere and inevitably that will influence the outcome.
37:59
And so, like where do you feel most comfortable?
38:03
Like where where where do you wear your sweatpants?
38:07
Where do you like where do you eat Cheetos on the couch?
38:10
Where do you like things like that?
38:12
It's like where where is your home, you know?
38:13
And a house is not a home.
38:16
It's that feeling of the things that your surroundings that make you feel at home.
38:22
And so, for me, yeah, dude, it's above my garage, you know, and it's with my guys. >> Yeah.
38:30
But, how do you sort of create a place where there's focus and not distraction?
38:35
Because because >> I love being in my sweatpants and eating Cheetos, and I love making music in that environment, [clears throat] too, but sometimes >> Don't cry.
38:44
>> I have to really drag myself in the room to do that cuz I just want to stay with the [laughter] Cheetos.
38:48
It's just you know, in a way with >> Because it's a different kind of discipline, doesn't it? >> it's I love it all. I really do. I love it all. I'm the first one up.
38:55
I'm up before the sun, and it's it's muffins and pancakes and Earth, Wind & Fire >> You really don't sleep, do you? >> Not enough. >> Never have.
39:07
>> Um well, I actually had this conversation with my mother once.
39:09
I'm like, I've always been a horrible sleeper.
39:12
And she goes, "Nigga, that's not true.
39:13
From the ages of about 13 to 18, you could sleep like 12 hours a day."
39:19
And that's when I was a total stoner.
39:21
That's when I was smoking so much weed I couldn't [laughter] stay awake.
39:26
And so, and of course I told her that in my 30s. >> Yeah.
39:29
>> Listen, I love dreaming.
39:29
I have crazy-ass dreams every night, and I wake up and I remember every single >> Lucid dream Seriously, like lucid dream.
39:38
>> will be in a dream, and last just Last night I slept from 11:00 to 2:00.
39:42
I spent from 2:00 to 6:00 figuring out that Billy Strings song.
39:46
I went back to sleep from 6:00 to 7:30, and in that dream, I was um I was on like this elaborate highway system trying to get off the highway and uh get back downtown DC.
40:03
And to try to try to get back to uh meeting everybody um in Washington DC.
40:09
Um anyway, [clears throat] >> Wow, that's super That's That's a crazy dream.
40:13
>> Dude, every every night I have you know, I have dreams about Taylor all the time.
40:18
There are times where it's really interpersonal.
40:20
There are other times where he's just in the peripheral like he hasn't left.
40:23
There are times I dream about my mother once a week at least.
40:27
Sometimes >> to ask you about that because you because you have been you had real people real close to you who clearly lean into your best relationships in a very real way.
40:39
I mean, your relationship with your best friend Jimmy is well documented in your book and otherwise, you know, and he's no longer with us. And >> Yeah.
40:47
>> Taylor's not like your mother.
40:47
Great people, Kurt, you know.
40:48
And I wondered like what that tells you about the the spiritual side of it all away from this human tactility, this surfaces that we exist within.
40:58
What it tells you about life and beyond? >> Yes.
41:02
I We could talk about that for hours and hours.
41:05
Um I when my mother passed away, I had this whole new um revelation or feeling about like what happens next.
41:21
And I think most people have some fear of the unknown, of what happens afterwards. >> Yeah.
41:30
>> But um when that energy is still here, like it's still here.
41:37
Her energy is still here, I believe.
41:40
I believe Taylor's energy is still here, whether it's in dreams, whether it's you know, ghosty things that happen every once in a while where oh my god, could you imagine like some ghosty happening in your house?
41:55
You'd be like oh my god, there's a ghost in the house.
41:57
But then when you think, hey, when you say like, "Mama, is that you?" Then [snorts] it's okay. >> I've had that.
42:04
>> if you're online, it meaning like if you're if you allow yourself to be attuned to that kind of stuff, then >> there's no coincidence. >> I agree.
42:13
>> You know, it's like and if you accept it as something bigger than coincidence, there you go.
42:18
And so with dreams and things, it's like, man, I value my dream life so much. >> Yeah.
42:24
>> Like I had this one dream um uh this is years ago. I remember them all. Yeah.
42:30
I had this dream where I was underwater at night and I was looking up at this boat on the surface that had a white light shining down into the water and there was a ladder coming down into the water.
42:43
And I saw this free diver like struggling to get up to the ladder.
42:49
Um but clearly beginning to drown. >> Mhm.
42:54
>> And so coming up to this ladder in this white light and you could see that they were struggling and then they just start floating up towards the light and then my next p- view was these people on a boat trying to resuscitate this person.
43:05
But then in that moment, I had this whole other feeling that like, oh my god, this person is having an after life experience.
43:16
And I all of a sudden I'm flooded with this whole thing where it's like, oh my god, this person doesn't believe in God.
43:20
Oh my god, this person has never been loved.
43:23
Oh my god, this person and in the in this afterlife experience, they're faced with God and flooded with this feeling of love.
43:30
And they're they're like, oh my god, love is real, God is real, love is real.
43:35
And they're resuscitated, but they're in a coma.
43:39
So then the next part, they're in this coma and they're uh they're revived and the doctor says, um okay, you're going to survive and you're going to be fine.
43:47
Um the only problem is y- you had one complication.
43:51
The part of your brain that feels and receives love, um is dead. It doesn't work anymore.
44:02
So, but everything else is fine.
44:04
So this person is let go into the world and um they've seen God, and they now know love is real, but the part of their brain that doesn't feel it won't work anymore.
44:16
So, they go on this quest to wake up that part of their brain because they feel like um they feel forsaken.
44:24
They're like, "Oh my god, God, why have you forsaken me?
44:27
Like, now I know love is real, but I can't feel it."
44:31
And so, they go on this quest to find it. >> This is a dream.
44:36
>> I swear to god on my life, this is a dream.
44:37
But, the best part of the dream was the tail end of the dream, I'm like, "I'm going to turn this into a movie." >> Yeah. >> Yeah.
44:43
And then, the last part of the dream, I'm standing in a hallway outside of Steven Spielberg's office.
44:51
I swear to god on my life. I swear. That was the dream.
44:53
Oh, and I woke up, and I was like >> [laughter] >> But, so at the same >> Wait, wait, have you told Spielberg if he was INTERESTED?
45:03
>> NO, I DON'T KNOW Steven Spielberg.
45:05
>> You should make this a movie.
45:05
You should call it Free Diver. >> Ugh.
45:08
Well, you know, the first thing I did is I sent it to our buddy Mark Monroe, who has written all the documentary stuff at Sound City and Sonic Highways and What Drives Us and all of that stuff.
45:19
I'm like, "Dude, check out this dream I just had."
45:23
And he's like, "Well, thanks for that. I'm taking that one." >> You bet.
45:26
>> And I'm like, "No, no, no, no, let's do it. Let's do it."
45:27
And the crazy thing is at the time the crazy it gets even weirder.
45:33
The craziest thing is at the time he was working on a documentary about free diving.
45:38
And so >> It's no coincidence.
45:40
>> Okay, but here's the the craziest thing. >> Yeah. >> My therapist >> Yeah.
45:48
>> My therapist um I don't know if I should even say this.
45:51
My therapist had a near-death experience um where um where the exact same thing happened, basically.
46:01
[snorts] And I didn't know this at first, and I remember bringing it up to my therapist, and my therapist and rec- realizing like, to me, no coincidence any of that. >> None of it.
46:15
>> Like, my subconscious making me dream this thing and then blah blah blah to this and I'm just like, "Oh my god. I'll roll with it, man." >> What else can you do? >> Nothing. It just happens.
46:24
And when you're like in tune online with that kind of stuff, it's like, bring it. Let's go. Universe.
46:32
>> It's like when I It's like when I >> Kick my ass, you know? Like, maybe let's go.
46:37
>> Cuz it all adds up and connects to something it's there.
46:38
We just got to be present and be aware of it. >> Yeah, 1,000%.
46:42
>> And for you to be able to A remember that, for it to be so lucid and so interesting and complex, so many complexities to that dream, and then for it to sort of I mean, get something out of it. I don't know.
46:51
Start a covers band called Free Diver or something.
46:54
[laughter] Get something out of Is there a band called Free Diver? >> It could be. It's got to be. >> Oh my god, I hope so.
47:00
Cuz if there is, I'm following them immediately.
47:03
[laughter] It's such a One word or two? >> One. Your your choice. You choose. >> One. I don't know. >> Free Diver. >> I don't think so. >> Really? No sub pop Free Diver?
47:14
>> [laughter] >> It's so It's so '90s. >> It's so '90s.
47:16
Sebadoh with support from Free Diver. >> Exactly.
47:20
>> Yeah, it doesn't ex- Oh, maybe Oh, with two eyes.
47:22
It It means it's a rapper.
47:25
>> [laughter] >> Let's go secure that that IP.
47:27
>> Let's go secure that IP. >> Let's do it.
47:29
>> That's beautiful, man.
47:29
Hey, um I'm a lifelong guy.
47:31
I'm a lifelong therapy guy.
47:32
I don't know when you started doing therapy, but how has it really helped you?
47:35
How do you do you you know, how have it has it enabled you?
47:38
Cuz to me, what you've always been as a fan of your music is someone who leans into momentum almost as a life tool.
47:46
Like, move it or lose it.
47:49
>> I remember [laughter] the first time I did therapy, I think my father was like, "You need to go see You need some counseling."
47:55
And I was probably like 10 or 11 years old. I was young.
47:59
And um you know, I was turning into a rebellious punk rock Like and um and uh my father beautiful beautiful man always loved my father. Um was not like me.
48:13
He was a conservative Republican speechwriter in Washington D. C.
48:18
Brilliant, articulate, amazing man. Uh incredible writer.
48:23
And um so he's I go to this counselor and I sit down and I talk to the guy for like an hour or something like that. Maybe a couple sessions.
48:31
And then the next session was to be with um with my parents.
48:37
And they just wanted to know what the was going on.
48:40
And unfortunately, the therapist is like, "Well, it seems like his biggest problem is that um he thinks you're an asshole."
48:48
>> [laughter] >> In so many words. So kind of backfired.
48:52
[laughter] But no, I mean over the years, you know, through um um Kurt passing away you know, it's it's I do think that it's great to have someone to talk to and someone who has the empathy and the understanding and um you know, the the knowledge or whatever it is to like the love to be able to receive what you're giving um no matter what it is, how complicated.
49:22
And to be able to reassure you, you know, like, "Hey man, um like we'll get through this." Kind of thing.
49:32
And so but yeah, I mean, I guess my whole life I have been I mean maybe not in my really really rebellious punk rock years but um but I do think, you know I do think that it's important people understand there's an opportunity and availability to um um to grow. Right?
49:57
That you don't just get to this point and stay there for the rest of your life.
50:01
>> Where does this album sit in the grand life story of Dave, Foo Fighters, and the whole thing?
50:06
>> I feel like this album is all from down here.
50:10
It's from the heart, it's from the gut.
50:16
It's not so much an obligation.
50:21
It's more of a blessing, and it's the fact that tonight I get to go hang out with my guys and make a ridiculous video in [snorts] 3 hours with handheld VHS cameras, and and it's going to be hilariously funny, and it's going to be like a school punk rock project, and everybody's so excited. >> Are you directing it?
50:55
>> I mean, I don't I won't be behind the camera cuz I'll be on the stage. >> your idea.
51:00
>> Yeah, it's not a Michel Gondry video. >> No, no, no. [laughter] That's okay.
51:03
>> We're doing it at the studio. But I mean, yeah.
51:06
There's some fake blood, you know, there's some strobe lights, there's, you know, there's uh a bunch of people bouncing around as we play a crazy song.
51:16
>> does music's greatest straight-faced comedian never have never gone further into that side of the arts?
51:22
Like it's it's no mystery to anyone Like this is not going to No one's going to dispute this.
51:27
But when you're in your bag on camera and you're funny, you're the funniest guy on camera. So, everyone knows this.
51:35
And so, even when you're not trying to be fresh bars.
51:36
So, even when you're actually having a heart attack.
51:40
But anyway, so So, like why have you Is it just it just doesn't interest you aside from like supporting the music? >> acting? >> Yeah. >> Um No.
51:53
I mean, I've done it a couple times, you know.
51:54
I was Satan in the Tenacious D movie. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah.
51:58
>> Done little tiny things here and there. Skits on SNL and stuff. >> yeah. >> But, um No.
52:04
Oh, and we made our horror movie.
52:06
>> Again, but these are all tied into that.
52:08
>> No, but these are tied into that.
52:08
Like to go and be an actor like in a movie?
52:11
>> like yeah, yeah, yeah.
52:12
>> I just don't >> Judd has Judd must have asked you.
52:13
Judd Apatow Judd must have said, "I've got a I've got a part for you. Come on.
52:17
Come and read for this or come do this."
52:20
>> maybe he did a long time ago. >> He must have. >> Um Listen, man.
52:24
I love Judd so much that I would love I could spend 20 hours a day on set with Judd. >> Yeah.
52:32
>> As long as I'm just sitting next to him and not in front of the camera.
52:35
>> [laughter] >> Okay, fair. >> Yeah. >> Fair enough.
52:36
We've got that out in the open.
52:37
I want to talk a little bit about the songs in detail here on this record.
52:40
And, um starting with Waiting on the Echo, which was how the conversation began.
52:43
And, you know, a lot of questioning and a lot of trying to figure out.
52:45
I mean, it's it's a great existential album opener from a Foo Fighters fan point of view.
52:49
Um what what was going on when you wrote that?
52:51
And and ultimately, you know, what can you share about that song in terms of what it's saying to you before it says something to us? >> You know, it's funny.
52:58
Sometimes the the sound or the tempo or the or the um feel of of a song will determine the lyrical direction, right?
53:11
Um and to me, the opening line of an album is so important.
53:17
I mean, you know, we still we still sequence albums um in terms of like side A and side B.
53:23
First song side A, last song side A. Things like that.
53:25
So, to me, um uh the first line is always really important. >> Is it "Do I?"
53:32
or is it "Is this a This is a test"?
53:33
Which is the opening line to you?
53:35
>> I think it's "This is a test of a broken broadcast system.
53:38
Consider this an evaluation of all my hallucinations. But this is not in jest. This is a conversation.
53:46
I have another proposition only under one condition.
53:52
Um and then the idea of being caught in the echo.
53:56
There are times, you know, where it's like it's just it's it's feeling divided.
53:58
Sh- How Do I Do I do this? Do I do that? What should I do?
54:04
It's not feeling centered.
54:06
It's not feeling grounded.
54:08
It's feeling kind of um some sort of existential question.
54:13
You know, um but then the second half of the song, "Some Things You Can't Divide."
54:18
"Some Things You Can't Define."
54:22
"Sometimes You Can't Decide Do I Do I?"
54:26
And so, I mean, it's I'm sure it's some caveman you know, staring at the night sky.
54:30
Just thinking like, "What is this? Where am I? What Who am I? What am I doing?"
54:37
And um just sort of questioning existence, right? Um So, yeah. So, that's basically it.
54:43
But I I felt like, "Okay, well, not only sonically in the vibe of this song, it's like It's like that's how I want to open the show.
54:54
I want it to be like boom.
54:54
And it begins this conversation, right?
54:57
Um Yeah, to me it was like one of those songs that it's just it's kind of this uh but not not like a mission statement, but like a proclamation.
55:11
Just like, "Okay, this is This is what this is."
55:16
So, this is the next 36 minutes.
55:16
This is the next and it's just a conversation um within yourself.
55:25
>> There's a lot of conversations going on within yourself.
55:26
It goes right into song number two and it continues.
55:28
I I thought the story was super fascinating.
55:32
I've I've never heard anyone speak publicly or or or on on a song at least about coming face to face with the protagonist of a tragedy but the protagonist has come out the other side and ultimately is no longer the image you remember of this person who brought chaos and carnage and trauma with their very life decisions. >> Right.
55:57
>> But has actually worked it through and is now looking you in the eyes going, "Hey man, if you believe in forgiveness, this is standing right here in front of you cuz I'm not that person anymore."
56:05
Is that a good way to sum it up?
56:08
>> It's a Yes, it's a bit more like um I came face to face with someone that uh that reminded me of some really dark and was triggered in this way. >> Mhm.
56:27
>> Um of course, I didn't consider this person responsible.
56:32
Um but just kind of a part of that thing that I hadn't felt in a really long time.
56:39
And so um >> Can I ask you how that person reacted to you in the way that >> Well, I started crying.
56:44
I was backstage at a show and I just I got really emotional because it just brought up some deep deep pain >> Mhm.
56:55
>> of those dark years while at the same time I was flooded with like just I was happy that this person was doing well and alive and survived, you know?
57:07
And it was I was so conflicted >> Yeah.
57:13
>> [laughter] >> My wife Jordan was like "We should probably go now."
57:17
It was like people partying and having fun and I'm like >> [laughter] >> And but um But yeah, I mean again, it's that's it's feeling just sort of divided in this weird way but ultimately just having love. >> Mhm.
57:31
>> You know, and feeling um um feeling happy that that we've survived, right? That we've all survived.
57:40
>> Cuz the song itself, if I may say, doesn't scream the loving resolution song that >> that's the that's the that's the side of me that like it's triggered and was sort of like, "What the was that?" >> Yeah.
57:52
>> Like, what the Like, you know, everyone was young and kids and like, "What the fuck?" >> Yeah.
57:56
>> What a drag, you know? >> Yeah. Yeah.
57:59
>> While at the same time just being like, "Wow. Oh my god.
58:01
Um here we are, you know?"
58:06
And it's, you know, it's funny cuz I was writing it and I'm like, I felt a need to to get it out of me.
58:10
Um and listening back, it's like, "Ooh, my voice is doing something I haven't heard in a long time."
58:18
>> And there's there's things on this album that like a new ground.
58:20
And some of them that have like a little bit of a sort of reflection, like I like I think like Window to me it could almost have been on the first record in terms of like as a really strong concept of something and then you just build this beautiful loving arrangement around it.
58:33
Like Cows was the same, you know?
58:34
It's got this thing of like it just feels like almost you reconnected to some innocent or some naive spirit in that song.
58:43
>> Well, you know, the funny thing about Window was Harper um my daughter who's 17 um she she's a musician but she prefers She is a musician and she's a great drummer and she's a great bassist and she could play guitar.
59:00
She she's a painter and her paintings she painted the bird on the cover of the Today song uh EP thing. >> Didn't know that. That's beautiful.
59:10
>> it was amazing cuz she was like, "Hey Dad, can you um I need some new paintbrushes before dinner."
59:13
And I'm like, uh "Yeah, okay. I'll go get some."
59:17
And then I make dinner and then an hour later she walks in with this beautiful painting of um of a an albino raven with one broken wing.
59:28
And I looked at it and beyond like her her her hand and her and her touch on the canvas, it was the it was like the concept of what she decided to paint.
59:41
It's like that is the most beautiful thing I've ever seen in my life.
59:42
An albino raven with a broken wing.
59:44
It's like God, [snorts] like I feel like that sometimes, you know.
59:50
>> All people who who do work on canvas or in sculpture or in spaces when I in a different space wise where the expression requires something to be um felt and then communicated to your point by hand.
1:00:01
I'm used to the the expression of music. >> Mhm. >> That being the art. >> Yeah.
1:00:05
>> My sister-in-law does a lot of work on canvas and sculpture and stuff and I'm like it's a language I'm so in awe of. >> Me, too. It's feel, you know?
1:00:12
But feel isn't just in the hands, it's here, too, right?
1:00:19
And so >> It's like if you could take it out and put it on the canvas and it just expands out and that's it's such a direct >> It's amazing.
1:00:24
And she's amazing, so but she plays bass.
1:00:27
And I'm like I had this riff that and I'm like is this Wait, is this a breeder song? I don't know.
1:00:34
It sounds familiar to me.
1:00:37
And [laughter] so >> It's got a little Malcolm Young to me almost a little bit as well.
1:00:39
It's got a little boogie shuffle to it. THERE YOU GO.
1:00:46
>> [laughter] >> I GUESS YOU'RE RIGHT.
1:00:50
BUT I WAS LIKE I THOUGHT IT'D BE fun if the two of us recorded something together. >> Yeah.
1:00:55
>> And I'm like okay, I'll put down a drum track.
1:00:58
And uh But so that was really just this fun exercise so the two of us could jam, you know?
1:01:03
And then um And then I listened to it and I'm like it's kind of catchy. It's kind of cool.
1:01:07
>> Is your bass part on the record? >> No. Uh-uh. nay.
1:01:09
Won't even let Won't let any kid get away with it.
1:01:11
He's like, you know what?
1:01:12
This is really great for Hopper, but if you want me on this album, man >> He brings He brings the emo. He brings the emo. >> the emo.
1:01:20
>> Um but anyway, yeah, but a song like that, it's like I didn't That's another song I thought like, well, that's kind of a fun little jam and whatever.
1:01:27
And then um, we finished it.
1:01:27
And it's it's First of all, I would I prefer to write things quickly. >> Mhm. Mhm.
1:01:34
>> Not only the music, but the lyrics as well.
1:01:36
If you have like a basic concept or some sort of anchor of this is what the song is going to be, great.
1:01:40
But I don't want to get into the weeds of like the second line in the third verse and like spend a week trying to figure that out. It's like, eh.
1:01:47
Because sometimes that lack of self-editing can be a lot more revealing.
1:01:53
And so, the chorus is like, I saw your face, your face in a window.
1:01:59
You were a window cleaner letting in the sun.
1:02:01
And I'm like, okay, yeah, that works.
1:02:04
It fits in with the melody.
1:02:04
But then I thought about it and I'm like, what a [gasps] hopeful, beautiful thing to say.
1:02:09
To see and some to feel someone in your life and say like, you're my window clean You're letting in my sun right now, yeah.
1:02:17
And then I remember there's one There was one line that said uh um uh Please to finally meet you swinging from the ceiling, watch you hang around, watch you hang around until someone lets you down.
1:02:31
And so, I wrote that and I was literally just referring to the person that like lets the window cleaner down to the ground floor.
1:02:37
And someone was like, oh, that's so heartbreaking way you I'm like, oh, okay, yeah, great.
1:02:46
>> the the metaphor, oh, all day. >> Yeah.
1:02:48
Well, this is the other thing.
1:02:48
So, I was thinking recently I was like, I'm going to write a big piece on um songwriting.
1:02:53
Not that I'm a genius, not that I'm a incredible songwriter, none of that, but just like examining like, why do people write songs, right?
1:03:03
And [snorts] um and I I always go back to this moment where I was stuck in my basement in Virginia.
1:03:08
We were making the fourth record and the track was recorded and I just had to write lyrics.
1:03:14
And uh everyone's just sitting downstairs in the control room waiting.
1:03:20
>> [snorts] >> And I'm upstairs in my bedroom and I'm like, "Oh, Oh, That's not good.
1:03:26
And um Nate I bump into him in the kitchen.
1:03:30
He's like, "Are we Is it Are you finished? Can we go?"
1:03:32
And I'm like, "Dude, I'm stuck on this one part."
1:03:37
And Nate said, he goes, "You know, not every song has to be Imagine by John Lennon. You know that, right?"
1:03:45
>> [laughter] >> And I was like, "Oh, yeah."
1:03:48
And the more I thought >> How bad is it that I just want to get back home to his couch [laughter] and watch TV, man?
1:03:53
>> But then I'm like, "Yeah, what the you know?"
1:03:54
And then so wound up finishing the song.
1:03:56
But then I thought there are things that you write that might be imagined to you, but are like, you know, meaningless to somebody else.
1:04:07
Whereas you can write something that you might consider to be meaningless, and someone else can find >> deep meaning.
1:04:15
>> I find that with Alex With Alex Turner's lyrics a lot.
1:04:17
I find that sometimes I'll listen to his music and people will laugh, and then I'll look across the room and some people are so deep in it, like it's the most existential thing.
1:04:25
And I think he loves that.
1:04:25
It goes all different ways.
1:04:28
Like don't sit down cuz I moved the chair is one of the great like lyrics.
1:04:34
>> Oh, he's he's amazing.
1:04:35
>> To fit that into a song and make it like the centerpiece, not just a song title.
1:04:38
Great song title, but actually work it in.
1:04:40
But then I was talking to someone about that over a few too many drinks one time that I like, "No, you're not looking at it deeply enough."
1:04:46
>> [laughter] >> Well, >> I mean, last night >> we were coming home from dinner and the new Massive Attack song came >> How good is that?
1:04:55
>> boots on the ground boots on the ground >> It's like, "Whoa."
1:04:59
>> And I was just like, "Fuck, yes." >> Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:05:02
>> Like this is It's so good.
1:05:02
Or like Mitski's Where's My Phone? >> Yeah.
1:05:08
>> Like that new Mitski record, dude, I am obsessed.
1:05:10
I We've We've all loved her for a really long time. >> Yeah.
1:05:15
>> But it's like a song like Where Is My Phone?
1:05:17
Um you're like, "Okay, well, great."
1:05:21
But there are lines in that song where I'm just like they kind of hit.
1:05:24
>> know who used to do that for me all day was Dean and Gene Ween?
1:05:26
I used to listen >> [laughter] >> Like I listen to Ween regularly.
1:05:30
>> What's your favorite Ween song?
1:05:31
>> I mean Freedom of '76 is up there for sure cuz that's when they really went there.
1:05:34
But I mean it's just it just it was so many moments they'll pull things out and you'd be like, "Why was I so dismissive in the '90s about this? This is so deep." >> It is.
1:05:43
Well, then See, this is Harper's favorite band. >> Ween? >> Ween. For real.
1:05:48
No, like No, I'm telling you, [laughter] too. >> Unbelievable.
1:05:53
>> Like Um >> That's incredible.
1:05:55
>> Yeah, so there there are songs >> You raised her. Congratulations. That's amazing.
1:06:00
>> I I love her for a million reasons.
1:06:03
This is definitely one of them that she >> know what?
1:06:05
That may be nature over nurture, to be honest with you.
1:06:08
>> I don't even know, man.
1:06:10
But um But yes, you There There There a band like Ween it's like there are there are deeper reasons to love that band and you can find them in pockets here and there. I love Ocean Man.
1:06:21
Someone needs some ear gauges. >> It's so good.
1:06:24
Um This album, man, top to bottom is, you know, it is a it is another beautiful gift that you've given us as fans of the music.
1:06:35
What was the song, as we say goodbye, what's the one song that you feel is the heart and soul, if you could say, of this record?
1:06:41
The one song that you think really captures you right now, captures the band right now, and will center this album um and its place in in our lives?
1:06:53
>> You know, I think it might be I think it might be Child Actor because the intention of that song is to remove yourself from exterior um expectation or validation or any of those things and and to sort of >> [snorts] >> find that um to find all of those things like within yourself.
1:07:32
And when I say that, I mean not only personally, but as a band.
1:07:36
So, um when I'm when I'm singing turn the cameras off, turn the cameras off, turn the cameras off, it's because I'm trying to express that feeling that um instead of projecting this instead of projecting this thing that you imagine others want you to be, that you have to be able to um to be cool with basically the band that we are.
1:08:12
I don't know if that makes any sense.
1:08:14
>> So, um so to me, that's like closing the door in the room above my garage and just recording things and when it's finished being cool with it and being okay with it and being proud of it and feeling good >> set up the band, you and your friends for the most fun. Right.
1:08:35
Yeah, and I take I say all that taking into account the Wemblys. >> Yeah.
1:08:41
>> And all of the huge achievements and the great things.
1:08:45
And I wish everyone was still here to come along for the ride, but but but God bless the fact that you're able to now look at it from that perspective of like I'm It's sort of like the the spell's been broken a little bit, maybe.
1:08:58
>> Yeah, I think that, you know, over time you can definitely get lost in all of that sort of um get lost in the weeds of of all of that kind of chaos that goes on outside of the little room above the garage and it's like and that's the home like that's the guys in that little
1:09:24
space and the thing that we do and the music we make for us that's that's our home and be able to walk on stage every night it's like the now you're at home on stage and then you jump on a bus to go somewhere and now that bus is as long as we're like that then it's home >> Is this the end of the interview? >> Thanks Sam. >> Thanks Sam. >> [laughter]