the intensity of the new music that you've made that compression doesn't have a showing hit [Music] is there a future for Fallout Boy at any given time even when we don't see you around we hope so and we assume we love each other and there's endless creative
opportunities but does the future lead to a place like this I would never assume that not because I don't think you're good enough or that you don't want it but man life is funny you know sometimes we just lose the edge or sometimes we get
confused or life takes over and we mature and we've seen it what I'm not used to is a band like you being around for as long as you have making the album that sounds like your first best album ever damn man thank you do you know what
I mean yeah sounds like the first time you got it right thanks that's awesome it's crazy I was watching uh before we started working on the record I was watching um some kind of monster and it's some you're welcome by the way did you like my cameo in it yeah yeah
me somehow in my head I always thought that they were like a band for like 30 or 40 I don't really know why I but I was like oh we've been a band the same length that they were a band when they shot this yeah which is just a really weird
mirror to like kind of like look into and like yeah and think about the because kind of what you were saying you know the thing about you know do they get along it's it's a there's so many things that have to line up you know for for a band to make a record at this
point let alone a good one you know um you have every reason not to really yeah and and you know you kind of expect it you know when I I told my parents 20 years ago 22 years ago that I was going to take a semester off you know and and
see what the band thing did and that was it you know and and so you know it's it's kind of crazy to still I'm pitching a reality show where he goes back to school it's gonna be immediately after this so the semester is over [Laughter]
a great idea actually I'm trying to poke holes in this real safe what college were you at uh I wasn't I was this was I was my my mom was basically like uh I'm not subsidized you know like you gotta get a job or do something I'm not gonna great parent
great personal advice and she's like so you know go to college I'll I'll help with that but if you're not going to college you know you're on your own yeah you're on your own I graduated high school and we did our first tour like
two weeks later was our was our it's a great tour it was a it was illustrious it was a legendary tour yeah so it was a terrible toy nobody showed up and whatever but you knew yeah you knew we had big Ambitions way way larger than
we should have had based on what oh man there was definitely I mean Chicago is not like you know waking up in the winter and it's like go for it yeah yeah wait where's it coming for getting dig out your car you know you're like I always knew that like when Patrick sang
the first time I was like this is very special and I was like if we can craft something around this it will be very special and to me I would liken it to watching and I can say this because I'm not Patrick obviously but like you're we're not watching kind of like a a
great basketball player in high school or something you like you know it's there you just gotta kind of build it around them you know what I mean did you know at the time that you were going to be so instrumental in helping to unlock
that with the words uh no no because we weren't that's we didn't even do that at first I was trying to I wanted to write songs that was the whole thing I didn't I didn't know anything about singing I didn't care about singing it was just
one of those things where it was a means to an end I I was showing them my songs and they're like oh well do you want to sing I'm like yeah but what do you think of the song you know that was the thing and so and I didn't really even care about my lyrics and that was I think
obvious and Pete was like can maybe I maybe maybe I should do this part it's so interesting it's so interesting and this is a and also we are going to talk about Annie and Joe because they're playing on this album is just out of out of their skin but um
but but the dynamic between the two of you has been we've experienced it before you know we've experienced it before great writers and great singers come together you know obviously most famously and notably Elton and Bernie
and this idea of of having separation to be able to collect your thoughts having separation to absorb those thoughts and then bring emotional performance and and resonance to it is it's rare but when you get it right something magic about that separation it's really blind
luck to to find that person you know to find somebody that you write with like that and when you do it's like it's it's amazing because there's a because like I said the whole point for me was I wanted to write songs that was the I like
composing I like composing music I'm not one of those people that keeps a journal and has like all of these deep thoughts that I want to share with the world I I have to make music and um and there's something about when Pete sends me words it's like Christmas
morning you know and I open them up and it's like I don't even write I'm just reading them and I just and this and it writes itself I did the same thing when I got the lyrics in through at the same time as the music I read the first two
songs before I even listened to the music I don't think I've ever done that oh wow that's cool and I and so I read the words to Love from the other side before I played it and I almost texted you in fact I think I saved the text I didn't send because I wanted to show
that I almost texted you just saying dude I mean I haven't even heard this music yet and I just want to say lyrically like you've just outdone yourself oh that's really sweet in terms of what you captured and then I pressed play and I was like me like
the whole band is doing that everybody is stepping up so my question is we as we fast forward to right now the most important thing this moment right here what do you put that down to I mean honestly for me personally coming out of the pandemic um
and just being quarantined or with my family it's like if we're gonna do this and like I if I'm gonna leave again yeah if I'm gonna leave again and if we're gonna go because I was like really nervous about leaving and really I didn't want to leave my family we got
like way Tighter and stuff like that I was like it's got to be for me at least it's got to be with purpose like it can't just be like this is my Big Show here yeah it just didn't yeah it it couldn't be that anymore to me by the way it's a great
job and you can continue it because what you've achieved before will keep you in employment but it's to your point it's it gets less and less inspiring by the day yeah it's not like the dream you signed up for you know you want to do it
for the reasons you know like you anybody who loves the thing that they do their craft you want to do it for the reason you originally loved you know and you it's great actually to me to have these moments where you can like reorganize your the the apartment of
your mind or whatever you're like you're like oh like I'm not doing this because like I've just started doing this because like I did it every day and it's like I always turn left I always now my neural pattern is I do this and
it's like why you know what I mean like life is short and long so that's a big question at our age why man well and that was and the why you know it's funny it was unfair of me to include you in my age bracket by the way I apologize but
um it's funny thinking about the why and and kind of what you were saying the getting out there there's a there's a um there's an element that you know people would ask me about Foley which was a weird record that we did that you know it's it's it's either it's a Love or
hate it record you know some people love that record some people don't and and people will ask me like what did you do why is that one different there was a feeling that I kind of wanted to get I I don't want it to sound anything like
that record but I wanted to get back to this feeling that we had when we were making it which was like I don't know how much longer this will last you know I mean like like when we did that record you know the emo thing had we had this Zeitgeist explosion moment and we got
like swept up in it and but then it's like but I don't know if this is still gonna I don't know if we're gonna be pop stars tomorrow so this is the last time I can guarantee that someone's going to front the bill for me to hire a
Orchestra you know whatever yeah and so there was an urgency of like kind of just wanting to get your idea on tape because who knows you know I knew you know again growing up in Chicago or whatever most of the bands that I knew from around there that had you know they
had the major label record you know it it maybe had a hit and then they maybe kind of fell off or whatever like that's that's what I was used to so I expected that so I was like it was like the LA this might be the last record I ever
made it's so funny you talk about this because this really is at the heart of the psychology behind the the artist and the relationship you have with your own with your own existence which is that there's a system in place which just by the very nature of of
introducing an idea of like you're signed you're dropped creates an anxiety and an insecurity in your psychology which means that even after all the hits and all the tickets and the fact that Fallout Boy even if you didn't make this incredible
groundbreaking amazing massive album or already a legacy band you're still wondering whether or not you're gonna be fired and it's up but I mean it's like kind of the similar to like when I'm I'll be you know I play Fantasy Football and I'm like oh like Derek
Henry they're like you know who's maybe the top five running backs you know or modern times like they'll be like trash trash and then he and then he you know what I mean like it's like it's so fickle you know what I mean it's like the the feeling is so in athletics it's
different because your body will eventually decide for you yeah whereas in the Arts no one can tell Bowie you're done I mean and and I thought of Bowie just now because you talk about this might be the last chance I get to some for someone to
pay for me to experiment like this Bowie didn't think that way but he had a similar feeling I guess toward the end of his life which which was if this is nearing its in I'm going to make a abstract freewheeling modern Jazz crazy
album I'm gonna do something on Broadway I'm gonna do all these things well because that's the thing is that like hits are great hits are fun hits are fun because because people resonate with something you did that's a really rewarding feeling when you write a song
and people love it but you don't know what a hit is everybody thinks they do and everybody thinks they know how to like make one but no one does everybody just kind of everybody just kind of bumbles through it and when you chase a
hit you make garbage right like it's when it's most of the stuff that you most of the stuff that really hits is the stuff when you're just feeling inspired or whatever and you're just having you know like it's weird and I can say that now after having written
bunch of songs be like that's a hit and you're like oh that's not that's that didn't make the record you know whatever and um and you know so it becomes this thing where you're like you kind of have to make something just to express yourself and and like I
said I don't have that um that that propulsion I I'm I'm I'm like a clock maker or something like I need someone needs to buy the clock someone needs to order the clock and then I will make that thing but if you but if Pete
doesn't send me lyrics I don't write a song you know and so I you know I sat around for years waiting for these lyrics you know I was just building up like please send me something please send me something this good you know
like something I can you know and then he and then he sends these words and you're like you know I mean I had a friend though I think you know kind of when the rock music kind of re-entered the mainstream and there's these festivals and I had a friend who was
like you guys need to make sugar we're going down part two and this person is pretty much almost always wrong like uh gut feeling wrong and I was like that is exactly what we need I love how you have a friend yeah it's great I think we all have that friend
dude it's a real test of friendship but it's a beautiful friendship totally and you need to keep them around it's like a canary in a coal mine that's a great idea just but you know it's a terrible idea I kind of like yeah yeah totally and I think even beyond
that I've had people come up to me you know in the airport or something and they'll say stuff like I grew up with you guys like you know like Save Rock and Roll and I'm like you grew up with a like what that's like yeah just like I feel like I felt old when we
made that you know like it's and or someone will be like Andy Hurley like I play drums because of Andy Hurley I'm like the dude that I like met you know like who we were drawing snakes around each other's necks with magic mark like
that you but like time does that you're doing what yeah I know it's like it's so stupid we're drawing fake tattoos we're doing our tattoos and you chose to draw snacks around each other's neck yeah it's so weird yeah I don't know if you
know the snakes are cool yeah especially around the neck so stupid but it's like you know James Bond or Metallica like the people have all these different Inception points so you can't just make a full throwback thing you know and I think Patrick had originally wanted to
work with Neil avron who'd done our first two big records and yeah I was like a little nervous about it and I called Neil why I just didn't wanna like I I think to me personally there's a real danger to when guys who have like
swimming pools or something try to go and make a throwback record it often sounds like guys who have like swimming pools you know what I mean to me yeah and I reached out to Neil and Neil was like I'm into it we cannot make old Fallout Boy and I was like I'm
in I can't believe this is the first thing it was like magical that that was the first thing he said to me yeah well the thing was that because I think you know there's a there's a anxiety about working with a producer because there's
what they do but there's also what you do with them you know I mean like the producer sounds you know a producer imparts a certain sound on your on your thing but there's also you you know you deliver something to them and I think there was a fear that you know that I
was gonna show up and do and you know just just because the comfort of it be like you know oh I'm gonna do a you know pop punk record or something and [Music] [Laughter] um um you know I think that was a that was a fairly valid concern that I could fall
back into that but I had this I had been it's funny I was thinking about how Neil has changed and grown since he worked with us last you know I mean he's he's like a like multi-grammy-winning you know mixer for Broadway stuff and and you know and he's
and he's mixed and mastered all these people far away from where you were you grew up also like he originally was producing us it was literally like he was our dad on the west coast and was like listen you guys you guys all get along everybody will be friends after
this record you know like it was just you know and so I I kind of had this hunch and I I was like we got to go to Neil because because I had this hunch that like whatever we bring him he will he will do well so it's a matter of what
we we have to bring him the right stuff but he's i'll make a confession Patrick's the guy the gut he's the guy you're telling us all that like we don't know that yeah everybody knows you're an OCD anxiety one of the things about uh working with Neil
um the first thing he said to me um I called him so so uh this little little you know inside baseball now outside baseball uh I was I was uh I got coveted and I was sitting in a hotel uh quarantined and I had nothing to do and I'm sitting there wait you is this when
you were watching The Green Day play the show across the car park in the stadium he was supposed to be playing that night oh yeah maddening yep Madden which city was that we was in multiple cities we did it uh oh my God you had touring covert New
York Boston and uh uh Washington DC yeah it was in DC so I'm sitting there in DC and I'm looking over this you would ride on a covet like a sick bus we'd get on with our gloves on and masks yes like like triple mask to get in and out and
stuff and like when you walk on it's like Doom music no it was terrifying it was it was off and Cove it was horrible horrible and so I'm sitting there miserable and watching this show that that we should be playing because that was that was the one like you said it's
like literally overlooking the show so I'm like this is miserable I'm I'm I have a pizza that I can't taste and I'm like and I call Neil and I was like hey you want to do the do a record and he's like you know and and he had so many
concerns and the first thing he said to me and this stuck with me was he's like what are you writing about he didn't care at all about the sound he didn't care because he because we've worked together enough he knows like we'll figure out the sound we'll figure out
we'll figure out how to make it sound good he's like what is Fall Out Boy writing about you were like hello reception could you put me through to room 406. that's his problem exactly exactly so what name is this guy staying under
again [Laughter] oh yeah Hi Irving don't know exactly but it's a great question and it's actually a rare question because most producers and to your point people who work in the Sonic landscape would go man where are we going to take this
musically and mix wise and oh this is so much has changed since we last worked together to take it back to the most important question that anyone should ask themselves before they make music with words that's the most important question yeah and it was it was again
that why everything went back to why which I loved I loved that everybody at every point in this Joe um frankly was kind of like hesitant to do a record and he's like and I and I was like what what are you hesitant about he's like well I I want to make
something that we like Savor I want to make something that like we go in and we and we really spend the time you know it's one of those things where technology it's amazing how fast you can make a record now and it's glorious and
sometimes it's so spontaneous and amazing you leave the studio like that was crazy we've written songs before you know and recorded them in the span of an hour and been like that was that was incredible but there is something about
the like you know like like an old like your grandmother making dumplings or something and you know everyone's just made lovingly or whatever like like Joe was like that was his condition of making a record and I'm like yeah okay totally like I like make a record where
we spend you know we spend days on microwaves your food yeah exactly you know chew your food like I get it and it and you've done it and it's um the scale of ambition on this album and by the way Neil was right because the way it sounds
is awesome like the subs in the drums and the way that everything fits together is so modern and Brilliant um it takes what you promised in the beginning like I said and takes all the experience and sort of connects the two points that's awesome um but it's it's
hugely Grand in terms of its ambition it's trackless thing the messages what you're trying to say everything is connected it's dare I say my friends a bit of a rock opera yeah yeah for sure you know yeah what were you writing about at that time and what
I what are we listening to what are the overarching themes I mean we're streaming the apocalypse we're on the verge of some massive change yeah I mean to me uh every September I get like a weird gut feeling about mortality and the way
the world like my place in the world and my um my therapist was like it's matriculation so you don't really feel it on January 1st you feel it when like everybody starts school again and the year starts again and I was like I'm like my dad's age like when he was when
I thought he had it all figured out and like my parents are starting to look like my grandparents and my kids are like the age that I was you know and this is just I guess how the world goes on but I was thinking about it in terms
of and we sampled him but I was thinking about it in terms of Ethan Hawke's speech in Reality Bites where he talks about this pink seashell and how he his dad you know he never really knew his dad and his dad gave him the pink seashell and he went there
this all the answers in the universe and he goes I guess there's no answers so there's this kind of like the idea that there nothing matters you know what I mean like none of it matters and and that was a weird message for me like I
was like I can't I don't think we can bake that into the whole record because I've heard records like that that's been said before but then I was watching uh Field of Dreams and in that he he makes a similar reference where he's like he's
like my dad was an old man before I even got to know who he was and he was he was just already old and I never did one he never did one crazy thing so the reason he went out and built the field in the grass is because he was doing a crazy thing because that's what breaks you out
of the pink seashell yeah you know like and we all should be doing stuff like that like turn left when you think you should turn right you know like and and to me in ways a lot of this record was and a lot of Patrick a lot of Patrick's job with me
beyond words is like interpreting because I you know like I must have eaten too many um like like lead paint when I was a kid or something like all my stuff is like a little bit off you know like how I see movies and how I hear music it's all
like a little not correct so I'll tell Patrick I'm like what if it was like this mixed with this and like anyone else on the planet would be like that makes zero sense you're not speaking like an artist you don't know what you're you know and but Patrick's like
oh do you mean this and I'm like exactly and I need the next iteration is exactly what I meant yeah it's and it's kind of it gets to this kind of twin speak thing where like now now I understand his thing enough where so I was talking
about this someone was asking me about this like because you know they're like well so when you when you use his words you you use all the words he sends like I'm like it's hard it's really hard to describe the way Pete writes because it's like living in his brain for a
minute like there's it's not really like it's not linear it's not linear it's not like he doesn't sit down and write songs he just writes thoughts and you find all these thoughts and then so so a lot of times I'm taking hold you know stands as
or whatever but then sometimes I have to move things around and every so often I have to I have to add some connective tissue you know a couple words here and he knows every it's weird because you don't remember it's the weird it's the
weirdest thing I've ever seen he doesn't know which which words he wrote and does and didn't write but every time he's like if you add a non-peat word he's like I gotta change that I don't know [Laughter] it's like he like every everything there's a feeling and so it's weird
because now because it doesn't fit into your idea of what of what the poetic the poetic result is yes right it's too connective yes and there's yeah is that right yeah 100 and there's certain words that just don't make sense to Fall Out Boy and there's certain words that just
don't make sense to me that he doesn't say so so now it's one of those things where now I've gotten better at it where with connective stuff I'm like I'm like this this is this is how Pete would say that it was like back in the day it was
like Patrick's like what's the difference between cry and weep I will kill you like this they're the same thing I'm gonna kill you right so this was back when I would try to write the lyrics um we would get into these these arguments because I was all about the
aesthetic the the I really like alliteration I really like the the sound of words I like you know chewing on words and the way that the Rhythm flows and all those things so the sound of it is very very important to me and and I
would have you know this this line where you know every you know with the again the alliteration and the Rhythm and everything was locked and Pete would be like no you got to change that one word and I'm like and and you would submit
like you'd be like change this one word to 40 words yes and lots of times yeah and uh and I really have the opposite I don't really care at all about how it sounds yeah I mean or like the phrasing doesn't really matter to me you know so
like those two things are always at ads with you just so it's but it's interesting because the the odds that you you both perfectly describing are so integral to what makes Fallout Boy exciting because your desire to create linear flow
and your desire to completely reverse engineer a statement or a word or a feeling and over describe it is the reason why My Songs Know What You Did in the Dark it's the reason why you know the scene has seen it's seen it's a goddamn arms race it's the reason why these
statements become mantras that people tattoo on their body because no one else thought of them and you and this gets back to you now ma'am you sing him and I'm just gonna say it man I don't think there's anyone on the planet who could have have actually
performed over this music on this album it would have swallowed everybody up eventually by by song seven or song eight it just would have swallowed everybody up and you just dominate it man I don't know how you do it but you just but you just somehow
they can't throw enough at you I I don't know do you know what I mean Pete yeah 100 and and on that level I do think it's like an athletic thing he just does he's able to just do it he's like someone else is in the locker room and he's still running plays totally he
steps up to the the mic and he just does it and you're like I would never expect I would have never expected it the first time we met because of your personality and the way you care yourself but like you it's like yeah it's it's you know
when people say that guy could sing a recipe oh no that guy could sing a recipe and you'd still love it pie crust apples granulated sugar brown sugar sugar flour cinnamon nutmeg lemon egg I don't know whatever it's it's early I'm not I'm not belting this
I mean you gotta be needed for making a piece nine inch pie play Rolling Pin I don't know amazing I think we I think we've discovered your YouTube channel I'm around nobody but it is you say I'm around it is a thing though man like I
feel like there's something in when you love the sound of words because that's the thing that that gets me that's the thing that grabs me is the sound of words and it's one of the reasons why I by the way it's the same for him it's
just different coming from a different place it is coming from a different place and that's one and that's one of the things that I found early on we weren't going to get there by discussing it I if I find if I wait for the Rhythm from him because he doesn't
mean to have rhythm that's the thing that's so strange is that he doesn't mean to have rhythm in the things so then I find these these these syncopations and I'm like that's amazing like it's so it's so when you're writing from a place of not and that's I've
every so often there are things that work and I ask people to you know and I if people ask me you know how do you do what you do or whatever and I'm like try this I swear to God try this and no one wants to do it and this is one of the things I've
always said in songwriting is try writing the words first and not thinking about the music at all because because you know you do this we all do this thing when we're writing a song and you think about the melody and you kind of
you kind of start humming over the thing and you start you know you play around or whatever and and you're gonna put in words sometimes we have words that we go to as filler sometimes we have words we don't mean to go to but whatever natural
intonation games all that stuff and it's cool and you get some interesting things that way but the way that the way that Pete writes I would totally freely tell anybody to try and write that way just write your thoughts I know P I don't know because you know one of
my favorite songs on here is fake out right and I think take nine cut through the darkness Castle temp red wine but I made no plans and none can be broken remember us just like this forever actually does work you know no but that's I can't that was kind
of tight there was like a Dylan but but my point being that like you no one can just do that like I'm reading this like Love Is in the Air I just gotta figure out a window to break out like how the do you get dead in a song without
taking up at least eight bars like it's I know by the way fully aware that we are an absolute major nerd out mode yeah no but they should be but the good news is is that if you're as big a Fallout Boy fan as I am this is gold dust this is heaven Iowa right now so so
you know so so from so for me it's like whatever the ever like the way it works for you too it it's just entirely unique we were we were texting each other the other day like it's weird sometimes being us because we're we're really similar dudes
completely wildly different dudes you know I mean and and um and every so often you look at each other and you're like if we were one guy you know like that'd be like a CR that'd be an incredible dude I was thinking the same thing about 20 minutes ago I was like
you're sort of the perfect one person yeah but but here's the thing about one person who has both of these abilities in equal measure they'll go crazy go crazy easily no question and I think that's one of the things that you'd never be able to switch it off and I
think it's great because we we kind of catch each other there's been times where both of us have been kind of off a little bit and you and you have somebody else to be like to be like yeah you know yeah yeah yeah don't do sugar again you
know whatever the two of you as a writing team is incredible you could there was no Fallout Boy without Andy and Joe but I wanna ask you like Okay so we've had conversations together multiple times I mean this is we've been
doing this for 20 odd years what is Fallout what is the Fallout Boy experience for them because I never see them we never talk I don't take it personally and this happens a lot in the Arts some people just don't do it for that reason I think that our issue
um will tend to be more like it's it started with and I would assume that I'll be answered like this when we do photo shoots we literally would have to swap heads because someone's eyes would always be closed you know what I mean and it's like it's like probably when
you have your kids or whatever like I can't like get one of those it's like it's impossible it's very difficult I think to interview the four of us we're like we everybody's talking and talking over each other and it really makes sense in
our van and in the bus because like that's just how we we it's kind of like an ever going conversation where it goes to Marvel movies into music you know whatever and it's just like a it's like a group chat but we say it out loud to each other or whatever you know
um why wouldn't that be fun for me it might be fun for you I think you're the guy yeah you're the guy Wrangler you could break this stallion yeah because you know what I would talk over all of you at the same time so it would be exactly right I I agree with
that because I feel like that was one of the things we used to do interviews and they would have all four of us it would be it was fun but it was chaos I mean but I wonder sort of like okay if they don't have this part of the job
and and I'm sure there's other things that they don't do that you do like writing lyrics necessarily maybe they do at times I don't know but I mean primarily we know we know you as the writer you was the melody in in this and the musician who puts everything
together with that it's a band what is it to them you you can look back at their experience just a little bit totally what does Fall Out Boy for them I think that at least from Fall Out Boy 2.0 like when we came back after the break it was interesting to see all of
us as the gut you took a break yeah okay now all of us is adults you know like so everybody's got kids everybody has you know a mortgage uh well Andy doesn't have kids but everybody you know he's got three Chihuahuas or you know I don't
know uh but it was interesting to see everybody as an adult and everybody had kind of like filled in areas that were blank previously because we you know lived in a van for you know eight years straight or lived in a bus you know out
of suitcases so there's parts of your life that were blank you know what I mean like and you never filled in because they weren't necessary to promote the music you know they weren't a part of it so like everybody kind of filled those areas in and for me at
least I think it was cool to see everybody like I was like oh this is like Andy's not like the guy that we drew snakes on each other's Next Step you know or whatever he's like grown he's like a man now you know what I mean you can see a
future yeah yeah of maturity for everybody and and the band's still is relevant totally yeah and I think that Joe on this record he really stepped up and wrote yeah Joe it was interesting because that's another thing Joe Joe is a is kind of a conundrum right because
he's this he's this really talent I mean he's a he's a brilliant writer brilliant player but Pete and I became the the team and it wasn't really a plan it just kind of that's just kind of how it happened right and then we come back
after like it's weird because the break it wasn't that long a break or whatever but for some reason it's this like flash point for the band right we come back and we're like okay probably the note we put on the internet that was like we're
taking a break we don't know if we'll be back it's so funny man because I I say the same thing to every one of my friends who's in a band who is an artist who does it I'm like don't do that no and nothing's not necessary no it was just in interviews because we
we didn't we we didn't really have a plan we didn't clear it with each other you know yeah yeah but that's fair but um you come back from the flag you come back from the thing and Joe is this like fully formed writer with a with a very
distinct I mean he has one of the most distinctive writing voices when I hear his Parts when I hear his ideas I would I could pick him out of a crowd like I know the way Joe writes it's and it's very it's very Joe right and um then we had to kind of retrofit and figure out
how to bring him into it because it's like now now you know all the egos are are cooled everybody's like for you know friends again and really whatever but now we have to figure out creatively how you incorporate friends for a little bit
we were I don't know I thought I thought we were cool and then you use this you know we might need that Metallica therapist no no but I feel like that I feel like the look we didn't talk very much during that during that break it wasn't not it wasn't not friends but
like I was just kidding no but I but you know people the people the people want to know my life had during that time my life had blown up completely you know like I got divorced realized I didn't really like how famous I was didn't like love who I was
would go like I I started you know like I'd fly without the band and I'd be like how do you even get through the airport because I just follow a backpack through the security guys backpack through the airport so I don't even like so like I'd atrophied basic yeah
Arrested Development yeah stuff I just didn't even get because you didn't you you didn't need it you know what I mean so I know so you're coming out of a heady time like people got to remember when you guys were around and successful
for the first time that was like a 4.0 Sunset Strip experience yeah it was why it's weird to like look back on now that was Dark Tower Paparazzi no it was so uh Paparazzi um broke down uh Neil's gate to his house when we were working on Foley like
it was like that degree of like of like chaos okay and by the way how the do you know what's gonna happen so here we go hey we're ambitious oh it's kind of working oh we worked with the right person oh we have a hit oh it's MATA in this era of like
here comes social media before that here's the paparazzi they feed the media oh I'm really successful oh I really like this girl she's famous oh the next thing you know oh totally and I think that like so for me I needed to take time to just like
become a real person you know what I mean like I didn't like I didn't like any of that I didn't like any of the things that the trappings that came with it you know what I mean did you not like it for him or him uh because you I I feel like you yeah
didn't want to know about it I didn't I hated all of it from like the word go because the thing was for me all of it took away this is this sounds so cliche but it is very Earnest for me is the only reason I'm here is music that's
that's what I want to do I don't care about any of the rest of it literally ironically not the cliche the cliche is the other what I'm saying but I feel like people say that but I mean I I I genuinely I just enjoy the making of it I don't even
I there are there is a great joy to playing a show and having people respond to it that is not even the thing that gets me I I like the creating of of music I I have to be in a studio and I have to be working and the the thing the
like you know the you you'd have to go to this party or this meeting or this thing it all started if this photo shoot every day it was like you know I want to be in a studio I want to be working I want to be composing that's what I that's what I get up for and and I
couldn't do I couldn't do it anymore I couldn't do all the other stuff I couldn't do all the like you know the lights and the thing and the red carpet and the you know and and um and Pete got thrown into it I think it's weird watching it from the outside and
then you what you asked it was really upsetting actually because I feel like Pete is an interesting dude you know whatever you talked about me singing I'll talk about you Pete's an interesting person and always was and that's not always a thing that you
choose right that's not always a put on right Pete walks into a room when he's having a good day or a bad day and people look at him right and it's one of these things that you you so then all of a sudden you have all this attention on you and and it's like
you have two choices either you embrace it or you reject it if you embrace it it's like oh look at this guy if you reject it it's like oh this guy you know so there's really no right answer and all of it sucks and we were like in the
depths of that where like everywhere we went it was like this whole thing right everything was a thing and like I don't know and and I was like I man I just I'm just here to sing some stuff and play some instruments like this is wow this
is like so beyond I didn't sign up for this you know and and you got to think that at this point also music became for On the Floor dance music that's like or like pop music it was yeah but but you can exist in that world I'm not worried about that I mean you guys make dance
records that's and also you're ex and people know this now just I just said maybe five to eight years ago the biggest trick Fall Out Boy played on anybody is that you're not one of the most Innovative forward-thinking bands on the
planet I think everybody knows that now I think you've done enough yeah I think everybody knows that now so that's not the thing I just want to credit you for a second for beautifully and eloquently describing what everybody got wrong which is that you're off my heart it
broke my heart to watch people say that stuff because I'm like because he doesn't it's look like I said there are days where he chooses it it's not it wasn't always a choice and when it's not always and then you don't get to turn it
off either when you're when you're famous when that when that Bell lights off that's it and you're stuck with it and so everywhere we went for like a few years it was like it was a it was a and I was gonna say you you can't get through that wall once that wall
surrounds him how the are you gonna get through to your buddy and and he would reach out because by the way that time you're probably high as well bro for sure because you're like distraction distracting what the do I have to do to even just survive this for
sure so I mean I can't imagine how hard it was for you and the guys to have to deal with that it sucked it it super sucked because it was one of those things where um you know like I said I feel like a part of my role is to like
tell his story that's what I'm I'm a composer that's what I like to do I work in movies and I work on shows and I work on Pete right like Pete tells you know has a story that needs music and if he's removed from himself you know I mean if
he's not even able to access himself because he's behind all of this stuff what story can you what I don't have a story yeah so so Not only was I not only did I not have my buddy like which was heartbreaking in its own way but then I also don't have a purpose as a as an
artist you know I mean like that was that was rough you know like like because because like I said that's that's like that's what gets me out of bed in the morning you know to like do a thing and and back to this record I mean it was like these were lyrics that got
me out of bed that was like the whole thing you know and that's what this album sounds like to me is it sounds like the wrist of the beginning of the rest of your Journey do you know what I mean like it's it's like it just man it it just
takes no prisoners and um and it's just so full of ideas and so full of emotions and so full of performances everyone's just fighting to just oh we're gonna kick down every wall in front of us well and then and back to your you know your point about Joe and
Andy too there was a thing where um you know I think Andy's Andy's always kind of in Andy's always Andy is very he's consummated his drums are ripping on the record what I'm saying but Andy Andy shows up Andy's ready to play Andy
likes playing so he's happy to play but like when you get that guy happy to play when you like when you give him a thing and he's like amped to play it's this other level yeah and and troman was like he there are these moments on the record
where he got he got so excited and it's it's different when everybody there's um um Sydney lumet said about filmmaking that that the biggest compliment filmmakers can give each other when they're working together is we're making the same movie right and that's the
that's what it felt like is that we all all of a sudden were making the same record you know and and that's this thing that like you know you can't bottle that like I I'm I I'm not proud of I'm not a person that is very proud of things that's not the way I operate
I'm really proud of this record oh you should be it's incredible and by the way it sort of touches on all of the things that only you can do like there isn't a band on the planet that could take on Earth Wind and Fire like you did um on
what it's time to be alive that was a hard sell by the way that was a that was a Patrick special I had to I had to bring everybody along I'm making and screaming for that one at first it's so good though because because you haven't felt that good listening to a
song for a long time it's like it's unashamedly like all right and by the way but by the way I know and I know this thing in the tail on that song yeah yeah no it's not just September I know that there's a lot of you know we're
streaming the apocalypse I get it but also Patrick sent me that song and like to me the most Bleak moment of the pandemic so it was interesting remember that was that's the thing that's so crazy about that song is so it was like a dark moment maybe I was
listening to it during the pandemic it was it was there were there were a couple other dark things that happened in the world before code so so but um I sent you the beginning of that song uh then and then and it was weird because as we're working on that
that was one of the things that was so brutal about that song as we're working on that song yeah more and more bad things happen oh yeah and then and then all of a sudden we're in we're in quarantine and you're like I don't know man like you know here we
are now it was interesting to like listen to that in your house when you're like oh only one person can go to the grocery store right now yeah yeah yeah you know but but I mean even when it's finished and it's finished uh framework
because it's finished body it's Doom dancing I mean that's what you do you do I want it boys always Doom dancing totally I wanted to write the saddest most desperate song that you could hear at a wedding [Laughter] Twisted how's the rest of your life I
mean how does how does life work now that you do all have families and you're all mature and you're all figuring out like how you wanna you need space to learn as you get older you need space into internal space and external space to actually keep
growing otherwise to your point it just becomes it comes rote right yeah that was that was the thing that I was worried about is because you can just make records to make records you know and and I didn't I didn't want I don't ever want to do that again I think
that's the thing is that I was like well again when did you do that no no I'm saying like no we didn't we didn't ever do that but I'm saying I don't ever want to well you know what we always show up we've always showed up and always done
what we're what we intend to do but there is an element of you know management and label being like hey so is there a record you know and and there's that kind of momentum behind you I'm never gonna let that be wind in my sales again I wanna I wanna let it come
from this thing because because um it I like sorry that wasn't your quest this is not related to your question I don't think that way but but I like him I just I think I don't think linear yeah I don't even prepare a question we're on
different timelines this is we're watching Loki right now um but uh I uh yeah I wanted to I that was a whole thing with this record is that like I just I'm not doing that not with this you know like and it's there's something about the stuff we've done in the
interim you know um Joe's been working on uh writing for for TV and stuff and he wrote his book and and I've been scoring I've been doing uh you know I've been composing for film and TV for like eight years or whatever and um that
there are deadlines in that there's work in that there's notes in that you're on the job and and it's rewarding and great but it made me see the way that this needs to not be anything like that there's something special about this that can't
be this can't be you know notes this can't be like this has to be passionate in art full purpose yeah full purpose you know you talked about the cyclical environment that music tends to exist in and even in this world where it's timeline based and the cycle is
constantly moving it's not like we could shift it like we used to 20 years ago we're shifting it six inches that way it's dance you know it's it's everything all the time yeah which is great news because now you go you know uh When We Were Young Festival
you've got these things that are saying hey yeah there's there's fuel in the in the tank with these bands we used to always like Fall Out Boy I think we had a lot of like you know we were super into metal we were into reggae we were
in the sky we were into these certain movies and all this stuff and so like the the everything everywhere really benefits a band like us because we've always restrained that stuff yeah when we bring it into things people are like
why do you want Jay-Z on a record you know or whatever you know which is an insane question to ask anybody you know but but at the same time Jay-Z now is an insane question but JC back then when he was at his height as an emcee people wanted to keep the genre separate
totally yeah and it's weird looking back on that I mean the Advent of record stores and you used to have you know sections and this was the section of the record store where you would find the rock records and this was the section
where you find the hip-hop records and this was the section where you and and all of that melted away and um I think we had the blind luck of being we would play like not to step over here we play like radio shows right so we play like a modern rock radio show
and we're the only band not selling a black T-shirt and they're like who's this band and then we played like the the jingle balls like the the pop ones and we're like Slayer you know what I mean like it's like it was always a very interesting existence no and and
the thing that was weird about it was because to the point about the restraint that's been a thing that was always there from the beginning that I think um wait what restraint the kind we were I I wasn't trying to that would Factor
trying to sing you know I didn't know what I was doing right um and the first the first couple records I was really scared of of it because there was kind of a blueprint of like how pop punk and emo bands saying I'm glad you're going okay because I was
about to go yeah and I was so I was scared so I kind of I kind of they kind of had to pull me out a little bit like so there's it's the silliest little moment but Saturday Saturday is a funny song for us there's a song on take this your gravey yeah first record
um and it's this little little song but there's a couple moments on it that I was so it's weird looking back now how terrified I was of it there's a little breakdown before the chorus that's kind of a hip-hop beat and it's really small
and I don't think anyone would even track it as a hip-hop beat now but at the time I was like it's not you know whatever yeah well I'm going to be heard yeah and I was really scared I was scared that that you know this wasn't gonna be cool everyone was gonna be mad
at me for for letting it out and then I do this I hit this falsetto note in the song and that I was like you know I did it once in rehearsal and I was like oh I gotta you know I don't wanna I shouldn't have done that and everyone's like no no
do it do it and so there was a lot of a lot of it was them it was all of us letting each other kind of like no it's okay we don't have to do the thing we don't have to be yeah but when you did that right people realized well they're not playing in our sandbox
they're not dumbing down their abilities or just playing to their abilities because they don't have that ability they're doing like something they're pushing the buttons they were given and not apologizing for it and from there we get panic Kims
it all starts to build on top of this like apologizing for what we do this is what we do and I do trace it back to A Moment Like That because you did start a train but you didn't know that right I'm too scared to do that on purpose but yeah but you do
know that looking back on it that I'm gonna say you ready for this oh you're the emo blueprint that's funny you are in a way and I say that without any sense of irony or sarcasm or or judgment I mean that is a beloved thing like people love
emotion in music you can shorten it and call you what you want wear what you want Market however the you want but you guys came out and went we are unapologetically emotional not only in our words but in our delivery that was Pete I don't think we could have done
that without him because I feel like we I feel like especially then um like you know I was Joe and I were like little kids you know and like and I was very scared you know I couldn't even you know talk on stage or anything like yeah
you know I remember interviewing you in the early days and it was I felt like every time I asked you a question I was bullying you no it was horrifying man I'm not yeah yeah what what was it that man you know no but how are you man I was talking to Josh Homme at this
particular tone I said what about you mark you mean why are you yelling at me no but um but yeah I mean it's we wear it we were very scared and somehow Pete had like the right kind of confidence and like resolve and so like we would go
in and you know it because it I don't think you know in another life where I didn't have a Pete if I wrote a song because I because Saturday I wrote most of that by my I did write most of that by myself right and so there's a there's a world where that song exists without
the band there's no world where where I sing it in front of people you know what I mean like like without Pete because I feel like it was it was so much of the like because I don't know what it was or if that was just you and you just felt
and you just felt comfortable or if there was like a fire under your ass like no no I'm gonna do this and I remember the moment for me was arms race the day that my producer came in and said Fallout Boya back and played I am an arms dealer and
I was like I'm sorry what are we actually listening to right now like what what are we even call this like I'm used to like you know the whole [Music] nothing you know like oh man everyone's hitting the right notes not that I'm not I'm not expecting that
and then I get to the lyrics and I'm like oh Pete's got going off like Pete is just oh no oh thing yeah he's trying to he's trying to blow it up yeah totally I think that we after take this to your grave we kind of made a decision I don't
even know if we really talked about it but we decided like we're gonna we're gonna grow on every record like we're go we're not I think there was a chance where we could have made take this true Grave part two yeah we wouldn't be here no we wouldn't be
here and so we really leaned in and did make that decision and that's where that birthed arms raised that burst Uma Thurman yeah I don't think light em up anything thanks for the memory you know because it was like when you're when you're free from all that you can
discover all this others yeah here's the good news guess who's calling you the next day Jay-Z is going yo that song's off the hook I bet you he did or around that time it was it was around that time he's calling up going you guys
are doing the right thing because you're not doing what everyone else is doing totally I think I want to work with you there's a there's another thing also like where and I think I can't remember what comedian said this but like when you're a famous comedian they
said you get one one free minute on stage so like you get one minute where you can just be totally bombing and you're so famous that it doesn't really matter okay yeah and that's like I feel like the spirit of arms race and some of
those songs was like we got a free minute we better like let it rip on this thing you know what I mean back to that back to that the Titanic or the moon you know what I mean yeah no and back to that kind of anxiety you were talking about that kind of like um you
know you're still scared of getting fired you know even no matter what this is the theme of the whole band it is and every night before we put every time before we put out a record or put out a song I call the night before and I'm like I'm not sure we should be
doing it yeah yes I waver at the last minute that's very true Save Rock and Roll in my songs I was like I'm not sure and then somehow I talk this dude down um uh but but to that thing yeah there's there's a we did have a talk on cork
tree because cork tree was the major label record and you know like a major label debut and again a lot of bands sync after that but I was like what if we don't what if we actually work where do we go and and I look back on it and
it's kind of a quaint amount of change you know when I really think about it but at the time I was like you you kind of pushed you said at one point this race is the most of quoting Jamie but like is one of the most bizarre pop songs who said that uh or our friend
John yeah he was like it is he was like he's like that's the weirdest thing would ever be on top you know what I mean no no no I'm going to stay further than JD in that case I I think it like for the first 15 seconds the first time I heard that I was like is everyone in
the same key yeah because it's like the bass is doing one thing you'll sing another thing and then comes this guitar is like wow wow wow oh they just take four separate tracks and put them together so so from another cork tree was big enough that we
got asked to perform live at the amas you know so we're there in front of all these like yeah famous people and like we're up there we have a giant uh these these these giant grasshoppers because they were on the album cover and we were
like we need them for the live performances giant aggressors that make no sense we're playing the song and it's like the moment in Back to the Future where he starts really shredding and everyone's like she's like I guess you're not ready for that yet you can't
relax like that oh my God it's amazing it was do you remember who you saw in the crowd when you realized that didn't quite land the way I thought it was gonna be I feel like I remembered watching because Snoop had performed what Drop It Like It's Hot
yeah it was like that and there were these ladies who I think to me I was like they look like they're not into music but they were like doing his dance whatever the video right and so I was like they really are keyed into pop moments I
remember when we were playing I was looking at them and they were either blank or a gas you know I mean like just like nah I just remember the stage manager the stage man we worked with him a few times he was a good guy but I remember the stage manager being like
like looking over at us like what are you doing like there's this moment because we had the because we had the Crickets up there and and crickets yeah and I literally I have all the things you could put in a costume a crazy no but get this so so if
he had this idea they're stage props giant crickets on the stage so we were gonna walk out to the sound of literal crickets that would have cost like a quarter of a million so ridiculous being so ridiculous can you imagine being the
producers on that show and and the artist telling you okay we want we want literal dead air with crickets crickets and so we walk out don't even know Cricket is and the and the the producer you know we're doing the show or whatever and and I look over at the
producer and he was like just you know he turned white he's like this I'm gonna get fired for this when was the last time we got we I mean longer than I think longer than I think for sure totally I know because because you because you you keep giving us these
Great Moments right oh we got a song how many times we hung out it's like we got a song where's the album it's like oh he's got a song right you know oh we're going on tour yeah cool we got now now I'm just going on tour
so we don't take this for granted and um and just as an existence but people I think it should all be event you know what I mean like this is an album out it should be an event it shouldn't just be like ah if this one misses we're gonna
drop another one in six months to me for our band you know what I mean like I want it to be solid you know what I mean it's amazing because that I think that's solid thing solid you think this is solid but no I use solid as the closest thing to being unhappy in my life
solid it's solid solid so it's I'm not unhappy it's solid this is not a solid album this is a crazy crazy I think the thing that works about it is is exactly what Pete just said like there's a there's a magic to it where where you're trying to make
events and I'm trying to like I'm like if this is the last one we ever do you know before they before they fire me you know like so so it's like the combination of that like you know that like pressure on both sides you know I just um
whatever it is you may never fully understand it we may never get to the bottom of it no matter how many hours we spend talking about it but when we hear it it's in full evidence and it really is on this album and is so much going on
here that we're that people are going to love and you know the whole fuel by rhyming things makes total so everything just feels right for the future and that's the thing I'm most excited about for you is that I think you know okay we know what it feels like to play an open
air Stadium again that was fun okay we now have arguably our biggest most cohesive ambitious sounding album for a very long time done that's fun oh we're on a label now that is a legacy label and no one's going to call time on us a
Ramen so that's cool dude it was so interesting before we you sort of built a perfect environment for yourself yeah before we resigned with fuel by uh Johnny minardi a guy that we've known for 20 years who was you know from the same little scene as us he uh he would
like text me you know once a week once every two weeks he was like you guys out of your deal you want to go have lunch do you want it is Patrick no and smart it's it's cool to be back at that home again it's it's also really weird when we say
I don't know how to quantify it for people but like Johnny was at like you know when we would play like a this you know coffee place you know like we were like what's beautiful about the fact that he's reaching out to you at now yeah it still cares he still
cares he's still thinking about how can I get closer to the guys how can I get back in their world so it's cool that he's just reaching out I remember and we were talking about the times in like 2010 or whatever where it was like heady
times I was trying to be an adult again I actually texted my manager and was like do people still email each other because I just wasn't getting any emails and he was like yeah I think maybe they don't you know about it that's maybe the saddest question
anybody could ever ask anybody at that point in their life do friends still play together hey is that a thing that they still do this is a weird question but was there like a global outrage on the email server over the last I don't know six months
have you gotten like zero emails or is it just [Laughter] um yeah man love you guys thanks for thanks for thanks for over delivering thanks man it's good it's cool to dig in deep with you yeah good to see you well let's continue we're still here [Music]