you're either tuned in or not tuned in and he used the microscopic world as his example and he's like you know before we invented a microscope we didn't know anything about the microscopic world we didn't know it existed right and he goes then we invented the microscope and we
were like what the [ __ ] look at this there's this whole other world down here and then Robert Anton Wilson who I think you would love because he has a lot of the same opinions as you had a great quote which is opinions come from perceptions perceptions reinforce opinions which control
perceptions this creates an infinite Loop that logic can never permeate Vibes is that how these Vibes get built in your opinion yeah I mean Vibes are essentially shaped by expectations with shape perception which shape interpretation all of those things so I think everything is wides but because
that word is sort of I don't know internet e some people are a little bit hesitant to accept it but yeah Vibes are everything I think that quote is spot on yeah [Music] hi I'm Jim O'Shaughnessy and welcome to infinite Loops sometimes we get caught up in what feel like infinite Loops when
trying to figure things out markets go up and down research is presented and then refute it and we find ourselves right back where we started the goal of this podcast is to learn how we can reset our thinking on issues that hopefully leaves us with a better understanding as to why we think the way
we think and how we might be able to change that to avoid going in infinite Loops of thought we hope to offer our listeners a fresh perspective on a variety of issues and look at them through a multi-faceted lens including history philosophy art science Linguistics and yes also through
quantitative analysis and through these discussions help you not only become a better investor but also become a more nuanced thinker with each episode we hope to bring you along with us as we learn together thanks for joining us now please enjoy this episode of infinite Loops Jim
O'Shaughnessy is Chairman and co-chief investment officer of O'Shaughnessy Asset Management where Jamie catherwood is an associate all opinions expressed by Jim Jamie and podcast guests are solely their own opinions and do not reflect the opinions of O'Shaughnessy Asset Management this podcast is for
informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as a basis for investment decisions clients of O'Shaughnessy Asset Management May maintain positions in the Securities discussed in this podcast [Music] well hello everybody it's Jim O'Shaughnessy with another infinite
loops and you know my next guest really has rocketed through the stratosphere to the point where she literally doesn't need an introduction and I uh I'm jealous I will admit because I didn't get one of those Jim needs no introduction until I think I was like 52. so you are just you know lapping me
in this regard today we have my friend Kyla Scanlon a builder at what is it beacons.ai yeah yeah so that's the Lincoln bio but my company's name is bread yeah a bread I love that okay excellent you are also the queen of Vibes and I want to start there because I saw all of the Legacy Media stealing
that directly from you without giving you any credit at all and like At first I was like pissed off I was like you know why don't they just interview her that would be the easier thing to do here they have the person who dubbed it by Obsession and why don't they do that well because they're all panicking
because as we're going to talk about later all those Legacy models are collapsing and the new models which you represent are gonna win in my opinion I'm gonna be making some pretty big bets on it so I hope so but then I kind of thought you know when you analyze memes
not memetic but memes right one of the things that I read that really fascinated me and I want to get your opinion on is that you can judge the success of a meme you can say that it's a killer meme when the originator of it loses control of it what do you think yeah that makes sense like if it goes
beyond their Stratosphere yeah into a different orbit entirely I think that makes total sense yeah so so so how did you feel about that though when like I don't know if you read like The Legacy Media I usually don't to be really honest I have news aggregators that I'm lucky because we do some venture capital
and there's some really interesting companies coming up we're going to talk about that too but like I still look at the Wall Street Journal habit is hard I still read the arts section of the New York Times because you know that's where I am but do you Aid you read the Legacy
Media B were you pissed off when you first saw that yeah so I do read the Legacy Media so read Bloomberg ft Wall Street Journal everything it was a pissed off uh you know there was a couple of times that they were attributing to people that didn't make it up and I was kind of like oh that
doesn't feel very good and then people would normally send me it and be like oh look they're talking about you and I was like oh I wish they just linked the sub stack so I get like more subscribers so like that was the main thing is I was just like oh it'd be really nice like if
like somehow it was attributed back to me but you know I'm just happy that people are talking about it and sort of recognizing like that people's emotion human emotion is such a big part of the economy so I was just happy to see it be treated seriously you know so that that was exciting yeah yeah that's kind of my
view I still with you know complete I do it out in the open and I always say I'm stealing this from but then I do that for the first kind of five times I use it like I use the term human OS all the time human operating system and I stole that from Brian romelli and so the first
I don't know five or six times I said it I credit it Brian but then I've just been just using it and same kind of thing the ideas are what's important in my opinion right and so like I'm glad to hear you say that because it shows me that you kind of feel the same way it's
much more important I think if you really want to get people talking about a new idea a new thing that to be gracious with when people are using it and not attributing it to you I think that just pushes it forward and frankly that says a lot more about you at least to me than it does about them
it shows Grace and it shows anonymity and I think that's great for someone so young so kudos to you yes I was getting ready for this like you are so in my wheelhouse right now that like I was like this is eerie and weird I mean I want to read I'm going to read you two
quotes and then we're gonna get into the whole narrative creating Vibes and discuss that the first thing I want to read to you I'm a I love quantum physics right and so kind of when Quantum physicists weren't you know working the math they were kind of contemplating you know what does all this mean and all of
a sudden like the first book I ever read about quantum physics was called the dancing woolly mask with a heavy hint on what they think it means and so basically most of them came down on a very taoistic buddhistic non-dual version of the universe and I found this quote from David Bohm who is the author
of The Hidden variables theory in quantum physics but I loved what it said because it really fit into kind of your message and what he said was we are all linked by a fabric of unseen connections constantly changing and evolving the field that is directly derived from
this is structured by our behavior and our understanding now I'm going to elaborate a little from there that was David our understanding and our belief in these things reinforces it like a flywheel and Bucky Buckminster Fuller said something really interesting he was like when anything something really new comes
most people like when the Impressionists try to do a show in France most people don't know that name was given to them to drive them the French Academy said you know this is like figure painting a child could do it and everyone hated him uh the Nazis called the degenerate art
well secretly stockpiling like the picassos and miros and everything in Swiss balls and but when you kind of look back you do see that when something new is really shocking New People's automatic thing is they don't get it they don't understand it and they get angry and one of the one of the things
that results from this is was the Fuller ideas like you know don't blame these people he goes you're either tuned in or not tuned in and he used the microscopic world as his example and he's like you know before we invented a microscope we didn't know anything about the
microscopic world we didn't know it existed right and he goes then we invented the microscope and we were like what the [ __ ] look at this there's this whole other world down here and then Robert Anton Wilson who I think you would love because he has a lot of the same opinions as you had a great quote
which is opinions come from perceptions perceptions reinforce opinions which control perceptions this creates an infinite Loop that logic can never permeate Vibe is that how these Vibes get built in your opinion yeah I mean Vibes are essentially shaped by expectations with
shape perception which shape interpretation all of those things so I think everything is Vines but because that word is sort of I don't know internet e some people are a little bit hesitant to accept it but yeah Vibes are everything I think that quote is spot on yeah and Vibes is not internet we used Vibes
when I was a teenager in the 70s so that's true yeah they're borrowing that from us I mean we none of our other like words like so I was on the cusp of the baby boomer I'm so I'm right between Gen X and baby boom and although I fall to the baby boom sign because I was born in
1960 but like you don't see groovy very often and you don't see far out not yet we might right but you do Vibes like that was big when we were kids and I think like it's also been around for a while but talk to me a little bit about one of the things you said that Vibes
are self-fulfilling prophecies I agree with that but tell me how you ended up at that spot I mean yeah so like the FED talks about so this is going to be like a little bit monetary policy based but the FED talks about inflation expectations all the time and how like people are really
worried about inflation that ends up becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy so you know consumer sentiment is a core driver of consumer spending as a core driver of GDP so it's all about how people feel and if they're feeling bad like that's going to reflect in economic metrics so I just was reflecting on that
and saw that people were feeling pretty bad even though the data is relatively was relatively okay whenever the piece it's still relatively okay-ish but yeah how people feel shaped so much of our interpretation of the world around us and thus how the world around us ends up
being you know right our feelings create reality you know perception doesn't shape reality perception is reality exactly and many people have a really hard time with that but like in all the studying that I have done that has certainly been the thing I have one pushback though like in my opinion
inflation is attacks Ben Bernanke that's a Ben Bernanke quote by the way simple inflation is a tax and I was around in the 70s when America was going to [ __ ] and like we had stagflation and gas lines and everyone was the vibe then you think the vibe now is a little down oh
my God like in the 70s like the vibe was so low and so like America felt defeated and I think that was kind of the first time in American history that a lot of Americans like felt no we're not in anymore it's not going to be us and then they fed cleverly decided to monetize
our debt we have the we enjoyed the exceedingly large and to my knowledge only ability to repay our debt in our own currency whoops it's like so the show game went on and we had all the inflation and that was because they printed more money so I don't know that I I wonder this kind of chicken egg
right was it watching the FED print all of this money that in turn made the consumers think oh damn it's gonna be bad inflation because when we did it in 08 there wasn't any inflation right and so I saw all these people trying to create a narrative that see you can print money no inflation well no not
really the money that we in quotes print it back in 08 were journal entries on a bank Ledger they weren't cash in consumers hands right big difference big difference the stimis during the lockdown that was money in people's hands you know the loans that now they're dragging everybody for taking if
you go back to the Wayback machine you'll see they were begging people to take them back then but that was money in their hands so I agree about the I'm very big into the vibe thing too but I also kind of as a quan story follows price not the other way around I totally
believe in your premise and thesis that that the story is incredibly important but you know I always joke on Twitter and other social media that I am perhaps the laziest person on the planet bordering on slope and so it shouldn't surprise anyone that I would be a freeloader as a Quant because what
happens is Vibes and data fundamental data get compressed into price right and if you read mandelbrot you see that markets are probably more chaotic normal but but also one of his most outlandish claims that seems to be true is that prices have memories and so I wonder if is there
some kind of Tipping Point that all of a sudden so all this is going on the prices start to crumble a little bit the vibe is or sorry the story is still up here right like people are still buying AMC and my buddy Cliff askedness is still yelling at them and they keep doing it and the results start
changing right and they're like what's going on I thought I just bought this and it went up is that how the narrative gets changed or do you think that there's kind of a conscious effort like say from a top down from say the fed the government fiscal policy things like
that or is this more of a bottom-up phenomena in your opinion in terms of what's happening to the markets or just in terms of how Vibes in terms in terms but well we can look at both really so in terms of first how do The Vibes manifest bottom up top down or then how does that make its way into the
market I have a theory about that which is it there's this Gap right where old narrative up here everyone's making a fortune and people like me who've seen a bunch of Market cycles and have seen this so many times before like you know in 1900 there were 200 plus car makers
in America some electric car makers by the way I didn't know that I found that I was quite amused by that but then by the end there were two but so so both the economy the market like help me is this just a Rube Goldberg machine or is there some method to the madness yeah I mean so like I think like the way
that I wrote about it in the vibe session piece was like there's how people expect things to be how they're supposed to be and then how they actually are so I feel like The Vibes sort of have to calibrate to that so like people's expectations are always going to be like way above and what
they're supposed to be according to like Theory whatever and then how things are often like below even what theory would expect it to be like so I think that's kind of how the Vibes manifest I think social media plays a big role in that like you could argue that the only reason that AMC ever went up in the
first place was because social media exists but I think right now kind of how we're seeing the market get dictated is more on top down so the FED is coming on being like Financial conditions or we're gonna you know wreck those we need the stock market to calm down we need the
labor market to calm down so we're seeing a lot more top down from them just through fedspeak than I think we did when the market was going up yeah yeah and how effective do you think that is ultimately is it always effective or no I would argue that the market didn't believe the FED for a while until this
you know until John Paul spoke at Jackson Hole so I think that the market has or the people who make up the market have an expectation about how the FED is going to be and they think they expect the FED to Pivot you know that's like well we're not going to do that and then
the big question now is how things actually are and I don't know if anybody knows the answer to that but there is a gap between what the FED wants and what the market wants for sure yeah and I would I would say the odds are the fed's going to win because if you control the money supply
that's a pretty big stick that you can use to get your way I wanna in in this regard I have seen I don't have Tick Tock because I don't want the Chinese State security agency inside my phone and but I see a lot of tick tock I see them on Twitter I say you know my daughters and sometimes even my son he
doesn't have it on his phone well send it to me and I gotta say it is inter it's entertaining as hell and I'm a huge believer in if you can make like your stuff I've seen all your stuff and one of the I think your real talents is you are distilling pretty complicated information but you
know like really fun easy to understand and fun and funny way and like I'm a big believer in that have you when you run into people who like they're meeting you for the first time or whatever finding that they're taking the message that you're trying to deliver with each one of your Productions
foreign I think that I've gotten a lot more pushback since the market has started to go down in my videos just because people are a little bit more mad about what their portfolio is doing which is totally understandable but I would say most of the time you know the markets aren't
that complex like what's going on isn't that complex you just have to explain it in a different way so I'd say most people are able to like recalibrate it to what I'm saying but yeah there's a little bit more hesitancy to do that now than there was previously and you know as a long time money manager asset
manager yeah if you do not have a very thick skin you're just not going to make it in this business because like hero genius goat idiot hero genius goat it's like a sine wave and you just have to learn to just you know Slough it off and just keep your head down and keep going
do you find that I want to pick up on what you said that now you're getting a lot more a little more pushback right because it's not so fun now right and I find it really interesting when you study mimetic Theory with an eye right there's all always that scapegoating
thing right and I would find it inconceivable that they would scapegoat you I mean you're just like you're entertaining and informing which I think is great but do you find that like comments on your stuff all of that that are just coming from people are watching you not from like business week or
whatever are they getting a little nasty do they kind of turn on you yeah and so with the vibe session piece so this isn't specific to Tick Tock but with that I was getting death threat so yeah and that was like very scary obviously and that was the first moment where I was like oh I'm very online and
like people definitely like see what I do and they don't agree with it sometimes which is totally okay like that is the art of being a human and I would say like in The Tick Tock comments now they're like how things have progressed the FED itself has become very political it's become this like
political hot button and so if you show support to the theater if you're like either just trying their best out here or you know maybe like what they're doing doesn't make sense like raising rates in this environment is probably not the best thing to do that becomes a political hot button for people so it's
say like uh and if you enter into that people have a lot of passion around that so that has been interesting is you know people call me a CIA operative like so it's very it's always interesting to see what people come up with yeah wow so how do you deal with that I mean like that's
scary yeah yeah so when the death threats rolled in you know it was only a few but that was very scary and it was very hard like I muted everything I didn't read any more comments and I just took a step back and was like I'm just gonna go outside and not be on the internet right now and so that's kind of
how I dealt with that and yeah to your points about thick skin at first the mean comments really bugged me because I was like why don't they love me but now I'm you know this if you're saying things that everybody agrees with you're probably not seeing a whole lot of
substance so I you know take it I don't I take it in stride like there's always gonna be people who get mad about stuff and that's like their professional reason for being online is just to be bad so I just tried to ignore it yeah Bingo on that assessment and I was just
like you to be honest and I was older than you when I published my first book I think I was 35 and I was waiting you know breathlessly for the first Amazon because Amazon was pretty new and I was you know I'm an early adopter of All Tech and like I was just waiting like this right for the review and like the
first one was great I'm like yes you know and like I was all like when it told my wife read this and then of course the one came in calling me an idiot a [ __ ] you know I didn't understand anything and I was Crest Fallen I will admit I have I'm usually very dispassionate about things and I've
learned to be considerably more dispassionate about everything I don't read it's like I have no idea how many Amazon reviews I have on any of my books I don't read any of them and it's not because I don't respect them if somebody like I I have a nice system and maybe
you could do this too if somebody you really like and respect and know and they know you if they send you something then I will look at it read it and contemplate it does that happen to you to people that you really like send you things and say what do you think yeah yeah I had to ask them to stop during
the Bible because they really because Fox News covered it and they were so when I wrote through the New York Times I wrote In The New York Times opinion section about five session Fox News wrote this whole thing like this young [ __ ] doesn't know anything about economics and look they're calling it
Vibes and people would send me that article and I was like you have you have to stop so yeah so but people will oftentimes send me like really nice comments like if somebody is like oh you know I learned so much from Kyla's Channel I love how she talks about econ that those are good to receive so I
think your method works really well normally I just had a little bit of anomaly going on yeah I stopped watching any TV news more than 12 years ago and it was the best thing I ever did because it's just nonsense I don't care what party or tribe you belong to they're all
just propaganda machines now that's what they are and you know Fox is the propaganda machine for the Republicans and the others are the propaganda machine for either Bernie or the Democrats and it's all just talking points and to me that's brain dead right if my friend Chris Williamson who's like
Mr podcast in the UK and he gets like anyone he wants I was joking with him you know I was gonna try to do a bet with him where I could suggest the most famous person and see if he could get him on and then he you know he had all these really famous people on he was on
Joe Rogan and I'm like I'm not going to make that bed with him anyway he he says that it essentially what happens in the environment is that if you can ask a person one position on politics you notice probably that I try to stay well away from politics because it's just a negative sum game because just
literally people screaming at each other talking points that someone else wrote okay so you're an NPC right there and you know your father your cannon fodder you're the shock troops and I just don't have any time for that but like his this quote of his is really telling it and I
really was like yeah he said if you can ask somebody one of their political opinions just one and you can make it economic social whatever and from that one you can infer all of their other political beliefs that person is an NPC brain dead shock Troop because like I have very different
positions on things like and I changed my mind all the time I'm like a maximum Free Speech guy I'm a maximum leave us alone from the government I'm a maximum woman's right to choose I'm a maximum love who you want and you know but I'm also a believer in free markets which
apparently now makes me some kind of alt right wing nationalist I don't know this is interesting like among your friends what do you think the take on like free markets is because I'm going to recommend a book to you later on because it's Nails it it's called a re a radical revision of
it's called taming the Beast like I've had an empowered bloom a radical revision of capitalism and his whole thing is that we it's emotions that drive everything and if we don't understand that we're not going to have good output garbage in garbage out but like among your contemporaries and friends do they have
a particular point of view about markets or no I would say most of my friends who are not involved in markets tend to think of them as corporate profit machines which they technically are but at the expense of people at the expense of workers at the expense of the
environment I would say the general opinion on markets is that they're net extractive to humanity and that the free market rain has allowed for a lot of ills to befall upon society that seems yeah interesting then you really I'm going to get you in trouble with your friends because the introduction
in the introduction to his book Howard Bloom basically says stack them up against every other ISM capitalism he goes capitalism is the only one that actually delivered it actually delivered the material well-being it actually delivered freedom of speech it actually delivered the rule
of law and then he goes through all the religions and he's not he doesn't spare one religion he'd call he puts them all in there and he goes they made they promised you the heavens you didn't get it what you normally got was some dictatorial nightmare where like you know I was talking to a friend the other
day and I said it is odd to me that the most pre-market-oriented people that I know all seem to be coming from former East block countries right like Estonia you know Hungary Etc and so it's I guess it's one of those things you know your lived experience is very different and
you know people get used to Freedom right they get used to being able to say what they want and buy what they want I used to tease people saying that especially my kids Patrick's very Pro markets but like my daughters are a little closer to your description of it and so I'm the great malefactor evil
malefactor of wealth I'm kidding kidding but so so one of the things I have to say to them is well I always love the tweet that I see that says capitalism sucks tweet it from my iPhone at a Starbucks it's true yeah it's like you don't realize how good you have it until it's gone sort of thing well and but that
also gets back to the expectations game right because you know in and masloff's hierarchy of needs and I think that we're going we in this country and many Advanced kind of pre-market countries go up that maslavian scale very quickly and so you then and by the way I think it's
wise to open your mind and by the way again capitalism and free markets have all sorts of problems I am the first to say that but they also allow if the problem is serious enough they allow for error correction and they allow for change which we're going to get into later on on one of your pieces that you
were talking about you know the story has changed people's models have not which I think is a really interesting idea and I agree with you what am I looking at here now I write out all this stuff from such a lunatic when I'm going through stuff because yeah it's so much
in Australia yeah well it's fun though do you think that like government have Vibes right so one of my research one of my researchers actually I hadn't thought of this and so one of my researchers at infinite Loops sent this to me and I'm like that's a really good question and
he went in with so Tony Blair came into new labor right labor had gotten so left-wing that even labor voters weren't voting for them and Tony Blair rebranded told a different story a much different story and it was cool Britannia right so he got the phrase and he told a different story President Obama told a
different story and Reagan which you weren't around for but he was kind of the grand Pappy of the new story of the re of the rewrite right because he came in and he's like no it's morning in America man it's not nighttime and like he he was one of those he was good in in
the Lao Tzu way of he never took credit for anything as president he always said the American people did this the American people did that and I it was the first time we didn't have social media and everything but you could actually feel the vibe change back to Vibes for a minute you could actually
like you'd go to parties and the conversations had entirely changed and they were like yeah yeah I think I am going to start that business you know I had an opportunity to do this over here and I was really bummed out about it I didn't think I was going to make it and all this but yeah he's kind of right do you
think that affects us more less than say social media is and this is a really interesting question and I just thought of this is social media more powerful in terms of Vibes in terms of stories than the government I'm not talking power guns boom I'm talking psychological power
so I think there's like a Venn diagram right where you have the government you have social media and then like the intersection of government and social media so like the White House went on Twitter and tweeted about all the Republican Senators that had taken out PP loans in the Republican senators were
talking about the student loan situation they were like well look at what you've done and then I think you also see the vibe setting with John fetterman I think his name is in Dr Oz and the whole race that's going on in I think it's Pennsylvania and how they're both
utilizing social media to essentially tear the other person down so I think that is big Vibe setting that's happening on social media by the government but I would say like the government itself and how they set Vibes like the student loaned that relief like that's a Vibe
setting the inflation reduction act that's all Vibe setting so I think them passing policy or arguing about policy to pass is in yeah inherently Vibe setting as well and how they approach going after different things is pretty important like Biden has been like he gave a speech yesterday where he was
very vocal about the bubbling of a civil war that we seem to be having going on so I think it's how they talk about stuff and of course which is the most important part yeah yeah I'm a big believer in leaving your Echo chamber and I think that you you it's really almost incumbent upon you to do so
because like the quote I read to you in the beginning the fabric from David Baum I mean like I live in Metro New York and so I realized the other day when I was talking to a friend that doesn't live here that I am like very influenced by Metro New York attitudes and like I
realized I was talking my friend was with was introduced to me by a guy who does live here but he's married from a woman he's from India he's very to a woman from the south I won't name the state and he was over at my apartment and he's like so I asked him like okay is this real I mean like do they really
think that we are horrible evil people and he goes dude you have no idea they hate us and I said just so so they hate me because I live in Metro New York and he goes yeah pretty much and like maybe that's the Civil War I don't know I mean like I had a theory that I'd never like I I can't even call
it a theory I had an idea that maybe social media was actually a steam valve which allowed people who were frustrated or angry or what you know all these things to blow off steam by shouting at other people not doing them physical harm right they might do psychological
harm absolutely but like not like people don't know the 1970s when I went from age 10 to 20 so or sorry age 10 to 19. like there were more bombs set off in America on a weekly basis and I mean explosive bombs anarchists type stuff then any other period than the period of Anarchy in the early teens and 20s or
the 1900s and there was a lot of violence and there were riots and I mean it was like the real deal it wasn't people shouting at each other I mean the 68 convention in Chicago I mean look that one up the police went just turned into monsters and they beat these kids to
you know physically impairing and threatening life so you know I guess if it's an evil I would rather have it be one that is at least not going to physically like kill people right do you think that people can or am I wrong I might be wrong I'm usually wrong well it's so funny that you're talking about
this because like I was looking at the art of an helper view right before this because I like I just got in a DM or something of somebody being weird and the person and I was thinking I was like people are so often going to say like mean things online versus saying nice
things because it's a place where you go to vent and there was this article talking about Yelp reviews and how Yelp reviews are never very constructive it's just so people can vent out their frustrations about the restaurant or the store that they went to so I think you're completely right in terms of like
the internet being a place where people just go to complain which is why it's so bad for our brains and also just the amount of information that we're forced to consume but I do think there is like an underlying like I'm from Kentucky you know so it kind of saw something yeah you know you sense like a little bit and
then I moved right to LA and the difference in Outlook is a little bit different um so yeah and so I think there's that element of it but yeah I think social media is a place where people go to be mad that's like that is what I think it is yeah yeah so so let me ask you you are a very
upbeat very positive person how do you cultivate Good Vibes oh man you know in general in my life I just try you know I go and I go to the gym I take care I go biking so like I try to really take care of like the vessel my body and try to be around good people and the way that I like to treat
social media for myself and like my own consumption is I try to be really nice so like actually this morning I tried to comment five nice things on people's tweets so Jess I think her name is she's a power lifter just bossed yeah so she did this incredible lift so I was like
oh great job so I just try to do that kind of stuff versus being mad because there are tweets like that I get added in where people are saying maybe not nice things about me but you just try to ignore those so the way that you cultivate Good Vibes I think is just taking care of yourself and being nice
to other people yeah yeah and that's kindness I wouldn't even use the term nice I think we often confuse those two words and I think they mean I think they mean very different things nice is you know like oh oh it's so nice to have you here kindness is what you're talking
about I think kindness is very different and being kind costs you nothing and it's like I I'm a huge believer in like giving compliments rooting for as opposed to against and giving away things like Prestige status they cost you nothing and you have an infinite resource that you can continue to give
away and it just makes people feel better and so like one of the things that I passionately believe in is I believe that the internet I my friend Anna Gatt who runs the inter yeah I know you know her but she's got this phrase that really hit me and I really like the
good internet exists and so I believe that and I believe actually that one of like we're gonna move over now to kind of your idea about Creator economy and things I think that like one of the things that's going to be huge going forward in the Creator economy you list that you know Creator equation
distribution marketing creating brand management and Trust I'd add quality and curation because what's happening I think that people are going to make be able to make a really good living as curators through a sub stack through a YouTube channel through a tick tock through a whatever
and because right now we're seeing kind of the negative effects of information overload everyone's at their Shannon limit everybody gets batshit crazy and we are drowning in information and starving for knowledge and wisdom and I think that a good curator can separate
the signal from the noise and I'd pay a lot for that I would pay a lot if I could go to like a sub stack or to a YouTube or to a podcast or whatever and like I always knew that the curation and they're not going to be 100 nothing's 100 but like if they had a really good batting average for curation that's
going to be I think very valuable do you agree oh yeah yeah absolutely so my company brand which is still being built that's part of the curation organization like that's part of the core three things that it's doing so I think you're totally right is that we have so much
amazing like even Finance podcasts like there's so many amazing ones but you can't listen to all of them so like there's a huge value in just like distilling down information and even in my own content I call myself a synthesizer not really like an analyst because I think most of what I do is
just simplify things that other people are already saying so I think there's a huge market for that and it's super important because there are so many amazing things being made and somebody has to organize it because it's way overwhelming yeah I agree talk to me more about bread give I tell me about
that I'm interested to hear what you're hoping to achieve and how you're building it yeah yeah so it's a financial education company so basically it's scaling out what I'm already doing the role is to sort of take Investopedia and combine it with Duolingo like make it really fun learning Pathways for
people and make it so you have sort of a financial playground like I think oftentimes we see Finance as something that is boring or very static when really it's Dynamic and actually quite interesting so the goal is going to be to have people go down different learning paths and be able to like
really interact with what Finance means and sort of how it gets applied in the real world versus these sometimes maybe not so applicable theories so the goal is going to be creation so having some of my media stuff be front facing and then creation so organizing content from
across the web and then also organizations so working with different brands like different ETF companies to help get those products to Consumers yeah so so are you gonna is it gonna what's the what's the model for monetizing and yeah so that's the hardest that is like my downfall as a
person is I really monetization so I think right now like I'm thinking some sort of subscription model or also product placement still figuring bring out I want to build it first and then see but product placement or subscription is probably going to be the large station path yeah okay are you
treating it like a startup are you like have you formed an LLC do you give options to people who work for you or is this a different way different path so right now I so I'm a team of one across the board I don't have anybody else doing anything so I'm doing and all my content so there is
for it right now hopefully one day like it'll be a little bit more organized in terms of organization but yeah I haven't right now it's just a construction paper that I'm drawing on with a crown so it's there but I need to get it off the paper if that makes sense it does and I think
that like getting it on the paper is actually the hard part that's why I'm such an advocate for writing because I've been doing it since I was 18 and it's just like maybe one of the best things that advanced me in my career because the more when you learn to write
things out you learn very quickly a do I understand this sometimes you don't even beliefs like do when you write out a belief and you look at it and you think that sounds like [ __ ] and I think that there's some kind of magic that happens between you know the pen and the paper and I say that specifically
because there are some studies on this about actually physically writing something with your hand as opposed to typing or talking or whatever is very helpful now I do the typical eating too but I think that's a great way to do it and I think like that's part of our thesis and the great reshuffle series
we're doing I believe that the tools available to someone smart like you is going I think I'll be alive when the first billion dollar corporation that only has one employee debuts let's open to you that's great I would like a little bit of help but yeah I know totally agree you really can
do so much and like there's so many amazing tools out there that help you with all of this stuff so yeah I totally agree with you and I think also like all my drawings that are in my sub stack are on my iPad where I can like write out my stuff because I'm a very visual learner
and you can't really visualize typing you know you can like type words but it's really hard to connect them back so I'm a total advocate for yeah like whether it be like pen and paper iPad and stylus to do that I totally agree with you yeah yeah I think you're in the right segment too because I think that
people are really coming to the realization that education is broken that we are still inflicting a 19th century model on 21st century children we are destroying their creativity the one size fits-all model and the one correct answer is you know as close to child abuse without touching anyone as I
can think and like people don't I the thing that's neat now that brings us back to Vibes you know the Zeitgeist in the air is like people are finally saying no and like parents are Marching with their feet I'm really interested in things like synthesis school I'm really
interested in all of these these various projects that are having varying degrees of success but the ones that seem to be working the best are the ones where they don't treat the child like you know you're gonna spit out you all we want in your brain is a correct answer machine
I'm much more interested in teaching how to think not what to think and like synthesis they do that and I talk to parents I'm going to do a thing on it for the great reshuffle and other schools and what I'm hearing is just like amazing like parents have to pull their kids away from the screen they are
so into learning because they're actually learning they're learning how to think and I think we are born naturally creative and I think that for a long time explicitly and then implicitly Society Society didn't like that very much they wanted you to be a good consumer as opposed to a good producer
and I think that we're moving into the content creation which I think is going to you know let a thousand flowers bloom but specifically you know we now have access to all of these possibilities and like substack great a great example right if you're a good writer and you're writing interesting
content you can make a reasonably good living by a subscription model on substack and I once said to a friend who's was and I probably shouldn't have I was because he's a legacy guy and I'm like how's it going to feel like when you get replaced by people making their own magazines all
out of sub stacks he just stared at me and he goes [ __ ] you oshana see that's not gonna happen well I think it might but so let's talk a bit about the Creator economy because you know it's something that we talk all about a lot we are covering it in the podcast and the the series on YouTube
the great reshuffle you talk about it a lot and you've mentioned a couple of things that I want to get comments on so I agree with what you're saying here by the way you say hey it's early days in the Creator economy it's just starting yeah so so I definitely agree with that
but I personally think that you're going to have to figure out tricky situation in that you're gonna have to figure out a repeatable way to break through the noise yeah now is that going to be for this first wave people like you who I personally believe that if you are distinctive and that you are
interesting and you're covering things that's what you got to be right it's like I do a lot of coaching with younger people and they're like I need to develop my brand I'm like no what you need to be is yourself you need to be authentic be distinctive and talk about cool stuff right it's not really that
hard you do it amazingly well but if you were giving advice let's say you you pivoted with bread and it was like you're gonna you're gonna be a clearing house for other content creators what kind of advice would you give them when they came and they said because you have
experience and you've been very sick successful what would you say about how they could get started I think the biggest thing is just be yourself like so I when you said that you started writing online at 18 I did something really similar I had an options blog where I talked about my
options trading because I really loved markets and like that was always something that I was really into and I think if you're able to like tap into that passion and make content about it like that's really all you have to do and you just kind of have to keep on going at it even though it takes a long
time I think for stuff to sort of gain traction sometimes you just have to be yourself and tell stories in the way that you think that they should be told like that's kind of what I do with my content and just talk about what you're passionate about and not really worry
about judgment from others you just gotta keep on going yeah so yeah patience and persistence right now that's a that that is that was a truism back in the old economy you know this idea that you're an overnight success is like one of the biggest lies in the world right and anyone who has like
watched a book just languish and not sell and not sell and then like do another book and that one sells and starts to sell a little bit and then you add the third one and that one really takes off and like everyone just notices that right and they say oh so you're an
overnight success no it like took me 10 years of persistence to do this and so that from my point of view and I just want one correction you said writing online I'm ancient I'm an old I was writing in notebooks I did have a computer and I was one of the first computer your owners but to be honest it
didn't do a lot yeah but so like everyone was like dude do you know how to code and I went well would you consider basic coding yeah but so I I agree that now the writing online so my pal David perello I just had on the podcast he's hitting a home run with his writing courses and I can just see a
bunch of those things just blooming right because the other shoe that has to drop in my opinion is we are moving out I always say like the whole gatekeeper accreditation system make in in many professions it is required really like I'm not going to go to a doctor who
doesn't have an MD I'm not going to listen to a physicist well maybe I would actually but a peer-reviewed physicist yeah sure if the peers were like yeah that's an interesting idea I don't care where he or she went to school I care about the ideas that they're expounding on but so
so there's definitely and the people who always bristle when I go on my tirades against Gatekeepers and accreditation are you know people usually have phds and I don't blame them and by the way in a lot of those fields I think you should have a PhD or I think you should have that medical degree or the law degree so
I'm not saying that those particular accreditations are wrong I believe in them I think we should have them but I do think that there's a huge segment that no longer requires that and where proof of work works better right so I have a degree in economics right and the only reason I have a degree in economics
was because I promised my mother that I would graduate from college and like it did nothing for the four businesses that I found in fact I it was very helpful in telling me not to do things a certain way because economists like you know all of the jokes about economists are well
let's assume we have a successful watch you can't assume your way into plenty right it's like you've got to act and you've got to keep in mind that the people who are interacting with you or people they're human beings and if you're not going to be willing to do that you're going to be in trouble and
so I think that if there was some way or a I don't know I don't even want to use the terminology because they're so Laden with meaning from the previous meetings but like some form of accreditation where oh you did that like David Pro for example I think he's very
close to getting the reputation that if somebody graduates from his writing course they're probably going to be a better writer than somebody who didn't right now obviously there's it's a wide spectrum but it would be kind of cool if there if like a new system that gave
people Comfort I guess right like oh yeah Kyle is sponsoring that so I know that's going to be good and so but like I don't you know obviously you can hear as I mutter here like I haven't decided what it's going to be I because I right now it's like all the people I've hired at infinite Loops is just
proof of work and we use the new model I don't care where they went to school I don't care what color they are what sex they are who they love what they want to do what they don't want to do I don't care when they want to do their work I don't care if they work for other people
all I care about is are they going to be able to do a good job here and it's kind of the way you know Dao's kind of started this way I see a kind of a new structure emerging as opposed to the old you know Corporation with hierarchy and people putting spyware on the computers they give people I mean that just so
offends me I can't go there though because I will go on a 20-minute rant but like I'm sorry I thought we fought a war and abolished slavery and meanwhile like you you've got these old school attitudes of you know you have to give us everything all the time if you're going to be a
good employee that's [ __ ] and like so I think what we're going to see is kind of a interlude would be this kind of idea like the Dows that you'll see groups of talented people form up do a project and then kind of go away again and do other kind of projects I think that is a viable model as long as
you get the economics right and curation I think will be like a big deal but in your own way of coming into this world right like do you have Milestones do you have like a business plan do you have like all those old school things because by the way in the first two companies I started I did not have a
business plan a percent I had here's what I want to do here's what we want to achieve but it wasn't you know like the the very formalized I hate org charts I hate all that stuff it's because they're nonsense and they mislead people and you know I believe heavily in anyone running
around saying continually I'm in charge here I'm in charge here is not in charge there so what do you think yeah I mean I think the point on credentialism is interesting came from a very non-target school and had a time like getting was going to the only way we went into
the supply and resume so I'd love to see that kind of stuff go away because I think you lose so much talent by being so selective Connor sen had an interesting tweet about it today he was like I think employers are either gonna have to pick like these Elite production universities or they're going to have to
pick really hard workers and sometimes those two people are not the same type of people so I think that's going to be interesting is like as corporations think about how they need to scale like as a lead system still going to be super important or are they going to be more open-minded and then in terms of like my
own business model so it's actually kind of funny I was on your podcast about a year ago now yeah for this time and that was around the time that I went full time on the Creator stuff and remember yeah and I was so scared I had no idea what I was doing and I would say like I
have a better idea of what I'm doing now but not that much so I have like a business model for bread but for the content itself it's just I'm just going to keep on doing what I'm doing because it seems to be working like I have some ideas about how I want to do things
differently or different projects that I want to try as you said with different people and I want to do a lot of different projects with a lot of different people because I think that's really where you get like flywheels spinning but yeah and sort of just figuring out stuff as I go along which
is maybe not the best answer but I have a model but the inputs aren't solid yeah would you ever see your yourself as like hiring a bunch of other content providers under your umbrella of bread maybe so the thing that is rough about me is I am very much a Creator not very
much a CEO of mind like I really just want to make stuff and so like that's kind of the wall that I run into it's like I don't really want to manage people I just maybe like if we all work together and everybody was doing their own thing but I'm not sure if I want to sort of have like a big army of people
underneath me per se if that makes sense yeah I yeah no it makes a lot of sense I and again that's why I had that little idea that you know the possibility of a billion dollar corporation that has one employee might actually happen before I shuffle off this Mortal coil yeah and
man I hope it does that would be just so cool to me I want to go now to this idea of the evolving art you've written the world has evolved our models of it have not and there was a big announcement in AI from stability AI which released their entire Model A week ago a little more than a week ago and the Cambrian
explosion of creativity that came out of it I just was I wasn't flabbergasted because I believe that would that was what would happen yeah and like so in a world where AI is going to touch everything that we do I am passionately in favor of Open Source AI not closed
Source AI because are you familiar with what a panopticon is yeah right okay so so it's the All-Seeing Eye and but it's run on a top-down basis and we are the products our data are the products and I would much prefer a sue s-o-u-s surveillance which allows bottom up surveillance of the top it's like and
by the way this isn't like a new idea the one of the oldest phrases is who will guard the Guardians who will watch the Watchers and so I am like really passionately in favor of open versus close because I believe that the future for my grandkids who we talked about before we started recording
I want that to be a great future and a panopticon is not going to be a great future where there is one All-Seeing Eye and like you're not allowed I much prefer bottom up the lengths where it's like yeah you're watching me I'm watching you too and like there's a great quote I like this Skype is on
YouTube xurbia are you familiar with it yeah he just released this new video yesterday and that's that I'm actually referring to that video I watched I watched it last night okay cool really good and you know it he's a good Storyteller and everything and I love him because we I share a lot of his
viewpoints on like open versus closed and things like that and he's funny which again you are too I and I have been told run funny the idea though is I really believe that if you can talk about things that might rile people up a little bit if you're funny you can
do it if you're not funny it doesn't go well and so but this is the one I'm referring to and he has a quote in it which is great he goes knowledge is power but spying from an ivory Tower is root I agree what what do you think do you think that am I overstating it in saying
that the future looks very directionally different by who wins closed AI with tech overlords owning it and telling you what you can't and can search or use that AI for or open AI where they can't tell you what to do yeah I mean ideally it would be open for sure but and I do think that it's trending towards close
like I know Dolly had to do it but when they put the monetization model on that I was like oh man that kind of why would you do that like kind of keep it close to them and make money off of it which is what you have to do right but yeah I think that the way that our data is
treated is really odd like the fact that we accept all cookies and it's like where did they go who really knows and we don't really get to crew benefit from that at all right like all the benefit goes to the big tech companies is odd and like that's how Google made all their money right like they were like oh
well this person is searching these things I'm sure they love this advertisement and as we think about sort of the AI world that's going to get even worse like who knows that like maybe they'll have brain chips and they'll implant ads into our brains or something like that but I do think it's something
that we really need to be careful about because it's very powerful yeah yeah I had the opportunity to have lunch with the founder of stability Ai and mod Mustique and he is considerably more optimistic that they're both are business models that are consistent and work with open AI so you can
monetize them if you're like in the foundational models as a service business for example and that they can co-exist right next to each other in other words you want the free it's right here here are the plugins here are all that kind of stuff go off and like if you somebody put I put up something on
Twitter yesterday about the one week that followed all of this massive explosion of creativity from the one guy was designing sneakers another guy wrote a book an entire comic book and shipped it and it was all on this stability AI open source and yet stability AI is a
corporation they can create do apis they can do plugins for the people who want like The Cutting Edge and they don't have to like have their own coders so I do think that they can exist side by side but one of the things he said to me at lunch that I didn't know that I was
loved which is you know they are they the magic sauce here is that they are able to compress 400 terabytes of data to two gigabytes that you can use on your computer and he said it also serves as the default search engine with no ads and no panopticon watching what you're looking
for so I don't know I haven't done my homework yet to see whether that's correct I believe he's a very smart guy but so like that got me really excited and I just like I've always been much more in favor of who am I to say that I know what Kyla can do right I don't know what you can
do you like I'm continually delighted and surprised when I see people coming up with things that I never would have thought of and that's why I'm big on let's like take the tools let's make the tools available to people and people are differently creative right they can use them all and they can come up with
things like the guy who did the sneaker thing like he could be in the manufacturing business next year with these cool new sneakers and so I think though that this goes into this evolving our world view right at least from the way I look at it because essentially what's going on is
in any new era there is a cultural lag right so some people get it faster than other people and that space there getting it faster than other people I mean that that could create massive amounts of wealth and or goodness for the people using the products that these things end up doing
and what else do you think along the lines of evolving the way we look at our models the way we test our models that would be helpful for like I'm sure there's a big group of people out there really earnestly trying to get their arms around the way things are going right now they want to learn they
they're open-minded to changing their models right their default is not well that's the way we've always done it so so what would you advise them in terms of going about how would you say here's how you can change your models on a micro level like as a person yeah whatever you want to do
corporate level person personal level whichever you feel more comfortable talking about yeah I mean I don't know I think that like the way that corporations run like as you've been talking about is kind of silly like I don't know why it's so hierarchical I don't think that's
necessarily the best thing like the whole middle management aspect of things I think that workers at this point deserve a lot more autonomy I think also to the point of Education like we have a very Industrial Revolution style education system and I think a lot of people end up and this sort of like ties into
um this idea of like being resistant to what things could look like is you're not really taught to sort of reflect on how things could change you're just taught to like absorb things as they are so I think like that even stems back to that point it's like how do we sort of educate people differently and give them
the tools that they would need to learn about things in a different way and I've written about this extensively but I think that we have a big passion crisis like I think a lot of people my age I've been surprised have no idea what they're passionate about and they don't really
know what they care about and so I think that goes back even into the point of education is like you really have to understand or not understand but like being able to have the tools to explore all these different things so to know what's out there is super important so I
would say like it's just exposure therapy at that like micro level at the corporation level I think that there needs to be a lot less hierarchy and then at the very macro level I think the way that the government is structured might need to evolve as well I think the current representative system is a
little silly so yeah you know one of the I had a guest on who advocated what he calls a jury system yeah where I was so intrigued by it I might actually try to like on the philanthropy side like fund some of that stuff because it turns out that the jury system it turns out
interestingly that human beings when they're actually with each other in a room tend to be somewhat reasonable and they also tend to be willing to listen to others ideas and so that's why juries have worked so well by and large now they've gotten things wrong like we were talking about earlier right there's
always going to be a mistake there's always going to be a bad call but if I'm balanced they're getting it right why not jury ideas why not jury things where the people come together in a jury format listen to the facts or the opinions or whatever you want to label
them and then discuss it it seems to me that is a viable alternative or add-on if you will to the Antiquated way of polling for example like polling all of a sudden started getting everything wrong in like I don't know 08 and you know why because they didn't have your number you don't have a landline you
have a cell phone and they didn't get the cell phone so they missed an entire cohort in terms of who they were polling and that's why they came up with these crazy results and so I am all for like massive experimentation and a lot of it won't work and that's okay we can learn from
some of those things and it's kind of like you know meaning is created more than it's discovered I think I think I'm quoting you there actually and you know you wrote a really interesting piece about how the digital is bounded by the physical which I agree right because we need those server Farms unless we can
put them in the cloud and we need all of that kind of things but so digital physical metaphysical leading to kind of abstraction leads to things like quantum mechanics kind things like things that we would have never believed I mean can you imagine like I always I play this
thought experiment where I wonder to myself and I'm holding up an iPhone here for those listening to us not watching on YouTube I don't think I could explain this to a pre-star Trek generation in America after Star Trek I could explain this right because I just say you're a fan of
Star Trek yeah this is a communicator oh cool they'd get it right away right but prior to that it's like again back to Robert Anton Wilson you know he says the old quote seeing is believing it's got it exactly backwards he says we only see what we believe and so this ties in
really nicely with your work on digital physical metaphysical changes that are going on in the world and with that book that we I jumped to ahead of time like I always do where Howard Bloom is like saying guys you're wrong you're totally wrong everything in the economy is based off human emotion and desire is what
creates demand desire is what creates markets what creates you know longing what creates I want that or I don't want that and so the this sort of mid 20th century economic models to start breaking down and so I'm not saying that I have the answer I have some ideas and we're going to try them
and I'm a huge skin in the game guy and so it means it's going to cost me money if I'm wrong but like I think that that the more voices like yours that's why I'm delighted about bread about your writing and everything the better and let me ask you that makes me just think
of this what is your most comfortable format are you most comfortable writing because you're I read everything you write and I often retweet it and like because it's good you're good you're really good and is that how much time does it take you for like the piece you did on five sessions how much time
maybe like five six hours the Wonder kid like I I really have no idea so that's just like a Park estimate I I don't know like you I organize all my notes every week in notion and I just go through what I was thinking about and turned that into a long-form narrative but I would say like there's always
stuff bouncing around in my head so in terms of like actually the time allocation I'm not sure because it's always worrying up there yeah what which is your favorite medium oh so they all do different things right so like this substack is really fun because I like drawing the pictures I
like I love writing like I was a really big reader growing up and being now a person who writes things that people read is like just a dream come true right YouTube because YouTube is so fun because it's you get to see so much more of somebody when you watch a YouTube video and so you can see how I talk with
my hands and like what I'm saying and like you can interact with the audience a little bit more Tick Tock is fun because I really love the test of com like condensing things down to 60 seconds it's extremely difficult so yeah I mean I think that they're all fun in their own ways but I would say like the
sub stack is probably the most special to me because I've just always wanted to be a writer and I think that a lot of people prefer sub stack over or newsletters I just say writing over you know watching a video or Tick Tock yeah yeah I I always question myself because
I think I'm guilty of motivated reasoning here I just love to read yeah and it's an easier way for me to retain knowledge so my bias is heavily towards reading but then some of the guys on the infinite Loops team who were big YouTubers finally like just badgered me into Jim just watch these 12 YouTube
videos that we're gonna send you and tell us that this is not an awesome Channel and so like I had prior to that used YouTube almost strictly just looking for music to be honest and uh like it's amazing I mean and then I have my niece's husband he's a very clever guy
and I'm like Dave how do you how did you learn how to do this he goes YouTube man and I and then he starts going through the list like you want to learn how to brew a beer YouTube you want to learn physics YouTube you know and like so that got me really excited and I think that there's a big future there too for
like creating YouTube channels that you can either subscribe and pay people who don't want to pay there'll be YouTube channels with ads and there's just a lot of different ways to deploy the content but I personally prefer the long form because yeah you know it's just the way
I am if let's say we make this an annual deal and I'm talking to you this time next year and what would be the biggest surprise that you would think that that something that would happen that neither of us would be like can you believe that happened and let's stick to the economy in terms of what
I'm going to ask you to go out on a limit and prognosticate for me I feel like a competitor to crypto coming up so not like Bitcoin or ethereum but something different not like fed now but a complete alternative to that like maybe tangential to the metaverse like
that would be a little bit surprising something unseating both of those because people might like be like okay volatile and then something else gets invented I don't know quite what it would look like but some sort of asset that you can invest in that capitalizes on the way that the internet is moving
but isn't as speculative as crypto I think that I would be surprised to see something like that come up I'd be interested in something like that coming up but yeah that would be interesting I would be too I had an osam research partner who operates under a pseudonym
Jesse Livermore and he's super bright and I had him on just speculating about what currency is the internet going to use because no one I mean like I was thinking about that and it's like that that's still an open question and so I love that one that's a good one I I love
to speculate about those things and as I say usually wrong but when you when you're usually wrong that that is your learning opportunity that gives you the opportunity the error correct and make your model better well listen this is as always you are incredibly charming and erudite and you're doing great which I
love to see and I'm you know I'm just happy that I get to live and see this part of the world because like this is I was born maybe a little too soon because I love all this stuff I think it's just great what's next for you other than bread are you just gonna is bread gonna
be what you're gonna be focusing on yeah bread's a big thing I'm gonna do some more projects I guess saying with the content I think there's like different ways to try podcasting and different ways to do videos so going to experiment with just like how I deliver content to people and also like audience
engagement so getting people a little bit more involved with the content making process so but yeah the big hopefully you know in terms of the Kyla micro economy by the time you know if I talk about this year Brad will be I think that people can go and use that'll be the Big Goal yeah and maybe I'll be
paying you and Kyla books well you've been on so you know this final question and so maybe you've given it some thought but I'm gonna ask it again because I love the responses and we might even publish like them all in a book somewhere because there's some really great ideas so I'll avoid the
Preamble but you've got a magic wand you're the Empress of the world for one day you can't do anything to hurt anybody or stick them in a re-education camp but you can incept them because we're going to hand you a magic mic you're going to speak into it and all around the world whatever time they wake
up in where they live they're gonna get out of bed they're gonna stretch it they're gonna have two ideas that they thought were their own but they were the ones that you put in there by accepting them and they're going to actually go out and act on them what do you got for
me yes so I think the first one would be the removal of the worry of how others interpretate what they do so people I would give them full freedom to explore whatever they want and not worry about how other people are going to think about it and then also I would make them
more receptive so they would be maybe this is a little too re-education-y but like receptive to new ideas and receptive to learning new things and also having confidence in their ability to learn things like kind of just being able to absorb information and being confident in their ability to do so yeah
I love them Hallelujah the first one especially man like you know you as you get older and you get wiser you realize that other people aren't thinking about you at all oh my God I'm still working on that personally I wish I could magic wand my own self yeah yeah those are
great well these are this was all as always super fun we'll put all the links to all your stuff in the show notes and you know what we're gonna let's make it an annual thing we'll have you back a year from now and I bet you're gonna surprise me with some pretty cool stuff thanks so much Kyla you