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Oh, you're speaking my love language with this music, man.
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It's so beautiful and immersive and heavy in all the right ways and I'm really happy for you, Ed O'Brien. It's good to see you.
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>> Good to see you, too, Zane. >> It's been a minute. >> Yeah, it has, right?
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>> We used to see each other on the school run.
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>> We did and I was thinking I think the first [snorts] time we met each other was South Park 2001.
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>> Yes, when Beck supported you.
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>> Yeah, it was our homecoming gig.
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I remember and we were both skinny and lanky and >> [snorts] >> fresh in the face and >> [laughter] >> I don't know how skinny I was then. >> You were skinny.
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>> I don't know about all that.
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I remember that was a very special day because um you guys started with Creep. >> Did we? >> Yeah. >> Right.
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>> And you hadn't played it for like ever. >> Yeah.
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>> And you started with it. >> Right. Bold.
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>> Cuz you know, home and all. >> Yeah.
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>> Little treat for the kids. >> Yeah.
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Yeah, it would have been churlish not to, right?
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>> [laughter] >> A lot to talk about, man.
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Um but most of all um I wanted to begin by asking >> you because this music gets made at a moment in your life when you're going through something and you capture an honest reflection of who you are and then you honor it. >> Mhm.
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>> And you bring it to life and you hand it to others to help get it out of your hands, you know, shouts to Ben, shouts to Paul, shouts to you Shelby, shouts to the people who get it. >> Yeah.
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>> And then you wait for the right moment then you release it and between that moment and the moment you made it everything can change.
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So, my really simple question for you today before we talk about how you were is how are you now? >> Great. Really good. Um yeah, really good.
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It's funny because stepping in here and hearing the music, you know, in the green room >> Mhm.
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>> and you sometimes have these moments, right?
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Where you hear that piece of music and you you know, hear one of the songs and that song was was from a very small, very humble, dark place.
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And then the extraordinary thing about what we do is >> [laughter] >> like 3 years later, you're in LA and you're trying to talk about it.
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So, it's it's it's it's it's an adjustment.
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I'm I'm in a really good place.
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I'm just getting used to putting the music out there and how we do it and cuz it it was a it's a very as you probably know, it comes from a very intimate place.
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>> It's an incredibly personal album.
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Um the the right side of vicarious, but vicarious nonetheless to experience.
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You know, at times I I feel like I'm right next to you, you know, uh and and in all the right uncomfortable ways.
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And it it doesn't I don't think experiences like that lend themselves naturally to promotion.
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>> No, I mean Well, isn't that the artistic I mean, I think that's the struggle that a lot of people have.
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The lot of you you know, going back, you think about Kurt Cobain and the struggle that you know, anyone who cuz music which connects usually from a very emotional, personal place.
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And it's usually from some kind of discomfort, profound discomfort.
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And then you have to put out and it's it's just an adjustment.
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I'm And but it is it's you know, thankfully, I'm not 23 having to do it. I'm I'm a bit older.
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>> Well, we experienced that, too, didn't we, in meeting people as easy.
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You know, I'm sorry, Ted.
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Yeah, I'm really sorry, Ted.
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This is my 50th one of the day, and I just I don't have anything for you, Ted. I'm so sorry, Ted.
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I mean, that's honestly, as anyone who interviews people for a living, they need to watch Meeting People Is Easy and then and then have empathy.
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>> Yeah, it is it's it's the discomfort and it was also what it was like then.
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>> Well, for you, cuz you're the only one who got did any interviews.
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By the looks [laughter] of it, everybody just decided one after the other they were chipping off.
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Colin had a nervous breakdown.
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Tom wasn't having any of it.
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Phil never gets on board.
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And Johnny was like, I'm noodling.
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And you're like, well, I guess I'll do it.
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>> Well, you're you're right in that, but back in those days, there was a certain there were things that had to get done.
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And [laughter] if no one else is going to do it, >> Yeah, like oh, this is insane.
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You're one of those things that needs to get done.
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Let's >> Well, you know, yeah, never with you. >> I know, I'll take it.
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>> But it was yeah, it was relentless.
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But it's not like that now.
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There's worse things than being in LA. >> god, yeah. It's so blessed.
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I'm I've got so much gratitude for it.
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But it's like all these things, you you you do something in a very specific place and then you it's just an adjustment to >> Yeah, yeah.
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Well, there is gratitude on this. I mean, literally.
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I mean, the last song "Porto Portuguese" for thank you.
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I mean, there's a lot of gratitude wrapped up in the as you as you come to the end of this.
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Did you get there during the making of this, too?
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Or was it only after the fact that things started to open up?
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Did you Does the music reflect the coming through the other side? >> Yeah.
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I couldn't have made this record in that dark place.
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I mean, there's no way because you just don't For me, how it manifested itself in is literally not having enough energy.
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You know, to have 3 hours in the morning when I'd have my I'd do my meditation, I'd have my cold shower, which gave me this burst of 3 hours. >> Mhm.
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>> And in that 3 hours is it was during the second lockdown and the kids were homeschooling. >> 2021? >> 2021.
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And I just had this 3-hour window.
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And that's when I started It was It was like therapy.
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For me, it was picking up the guitar.
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I went to the this tiny little room in our house.
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And there was no expectation or I wasn't trying to make a song.
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I was literally in a really dark place, what do I do?
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And my my my gut feeling was that I just need to pick up a guitar and play.
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And if I found something if there was something vaguely interesting or something I reacted to, I just record it. >> Mhm.
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>> But I didn't review it.
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And I just had that thing, it's like a practice that you you turn up each day and you do it.
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And you don't know what it's for, but you know you have to do it.
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And that's what I did for like 6 7 months.
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Then I came out after about 9 9 months out of this deep depression and I I emerged from it.
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And then I sort of viewed I had about 60 kind of musical motifs and I was just like, "Okay, what's this?"
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And then with Paul Epworth, we went through them and and Paul would go "That." And I go, "Oh, okay."
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And then we might develop that or other things that I knew I want to develop.
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But there's I had to find a place of peace and strength in order to be able to do the record cuz you know what like making an album is it's you know, it's 8 9 hours a day.
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You you you I couldn't have done it in in that dark place. No way.
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>> Well, I'm sorry you went through such a tough time.
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>> Yeah, I know thank you for saying that, but you know what? I'm so glad I did.
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And this is the whole thing.
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And this is this is my I I think that what I the way that I framed it was this is like the dark night of the soul.
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You know, the sages that comes from St. John of the Cross. He wrote about this.
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This is a stage that a lot of people go through.
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So, the opening line of Teachers is midway through life I just lost my way.
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That's Dante's [clears throat] Inferno.
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So, people be this is this is the arc of a journey and sometimes what happens is we embark upon, you know, and you get midway through life and you go "This isn't working for me anymore."
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>> Do you know what triggered it? >> I know why. Yeah. >> Can I ask why?
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>> Yeah, I mean, you know, Gabor Maté, as he always says and I'm a I love his work and he says it's all about childhood.
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So many of the things we suffer from depression, addictions childhood.
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And we're not going any further than that.
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>> You and I are probably I would imagine based on what I read, real frontline divorce.
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>> Were you from a divorced family?
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>> Oh, dude, I feel like I want to say my mom and dad may be in the second couple in Auckland to get a divorce. >> Wow.
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>> I mean, I'm only saying that because at the time it felt like that.
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Obviously, that's not true, but I mean, in the '80s >> Yeah.
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>> there was no playbook for that >> No. >> At all.
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>> I was the second kid in the class of 30 whose parents split up.
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>> I'm telling you, yeah.
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>> But it was it was previous to that as well, cuz if you come from a sort of a a toxic family >> Mhm.
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>> there was all of that. >> Mhm.
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>> And you know, you put kids who are sensitive in the middle of that and they don't process.
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So, you know, and what you do is as a child, as you probably know, you you develop these these you know, these methods of survival.
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>> Well, you just want to be helpful. >> Yeah. >> That's what you do.
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And so, you it's a at least for me, I just try to find a way to play a role.
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Like, what's my job here?
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How do I make everybody happier? >> 100%.
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>> and then completely ignoring the fact that I'm nine >> Yeah. >> or 10. >> Yeah. >> Right? >> People please. >> familiar?
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>> I'm I'm the I was the people pleaser. >> go.
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>> But what's really interesting is that, you know, cuz in my thing I thought that it was it was on my head to to solve my parents' marriage. >> Mhm. Mhm. >> It's the 10-year-old.
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So, I'm like trying to make them okay. >> Mhm.
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>> My next family are the band, age 17. >> Mhm. >> That's what I do. >> Of course. That's what I do. That's what I do. That's what I do. Of course. That's what you do.
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And that's why [laughter] I interview. >> Exactly. So, here we go. >> There you go. >> So, here we go.
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And then the same thing plays out in my own family.
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And now, for me, the there's a part of it that you know, there's a part of it you can you can frame it and go, "Oh, isn't it wonderful? They're so altruistic.
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They're putting other people first." But it's unhealthy.
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>> Well, what it is is also, my therapist told me this once, and this is a real crusher.
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He told me it's actually selfish, mate.
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And I said, "Wait, what do you mean?"
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He said, "Well, you're sort of mugging people for your own sense of self-worth." >> It's so true.
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So, I basically my body was like, "You're done with this."
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>> Yeah, cuz you couldn't process it, so your body was storing it.
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>> And what you do, what I did was I was hiding. I was hiding.
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I wasn't being myself, so I was never myself.
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So, this what's been amazing about this whole process, and I don't want to sound too sort of pretentious about this, but >> Why not? >> Well, okay.
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The music has been my greatest teacher because on my first records, what happened was I was halfway through it and did it with Flood, right?
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Amazing, one of my closest friends. >> Yeah.
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>> And halfway through making that record, it was sounding And I didn't I was like, how could it be sounding Why why what why didn't I flag this up at the time?
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And it was because I wasn't being honest to what I felt.
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And that was the fundamental thing because you weren't allowed to.
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That was what's programmed from an early age.
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You should feel like this, not what do you really feel? >> Yeah.
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>> And so then that was sort of like the wildfire.
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And then that and then that sort of so that came to the next stage was going to the start >> places.
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Like, what do you really feel about everything? >> Yeah, yeah. >> It's a lot, right?
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Cuz it goes through everything.
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And essentially what it is, it's it's like a it's like the death of an ego.
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So, you basically burn the house down.
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And you're like and I'm like at the bottom of it, like in the middle of it, I go, who am I? >> Yeah. >> You know?
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And and there's all sorts of stuff going on and like my my bandmates, Thom and Jonny have got a uh the the the first smile album out. Colin's a bad seed.
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>> Phil is doing his thing.
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Jonny is making beautiful, moving music and >> And I'm at the bottom of this whole >> I know you said that when the band came to its natural conclusion, that period in time in 2018, came as some relief to you. >> Oh, man.
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I'm Yeah, I I mean, I think it's been well documented.
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I think when we when we went out on tour last last year, it had to come out because that was the truth.
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I was done with the band.
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And I'd said about I said about I think about three or four times, when we finished A Moon Shaped Pool, we I I I knew that was it for me. >> How did you know? >> You feel it.
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I'm like I I felt I I wasn't feeling it anymore.
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I uh >> [snorts] >> I didn't feel you know, it was partly me, but it was also partly what we had become.
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You know, bands are inherently dysfunctional. >> Oh, yeah. >> You know that. >> Totally.
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>> Well, I think I I remember talking to Johnny Marr a lot about it cuz Johnny's a >> Yeah, cuz he'd know, right?
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His band broke up after 4 years. What are you doing?
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Terrible person to talk to about that.
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>> [laughter] >> LET ME ASK THE GUY IN THE SMITHS ABOUT STAYING TOGETHER.
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>> You're [laughter] right, but he's very good when you want to leave a band.
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>> [laughter] >> Yeah, he knows that very well.
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>> got That's a great conversation. >> that very well.
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>> But I remember Johnny saying to me, he said he he'd spoken to when The Smiths split up, sort of Paul and Linda McCartney sort of taken him and Angie under uh under their wing. >> Mhm.
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>> And he was sitting by a fire and he was hoping for Paul to And he said he he was hoping for some band wisdom.
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And Johnny was talking about The Smiths and what happened and And he was expecting Paul to come back with something and he just said, "Yeah, that's bands."
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>> [laughter] >> That's basically true. >> basically it.
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I I'm not of the school of thought that bands should go on forever. I I just don't get that.
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I think what I I find it really frustrating when you see a band who you've loved who you can tell are doing it, but they're not doing it for the right reasons.
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And you hear all these stories, they're all traveling on separate buses, they're in different dressing rooms.
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I mean, you know, that's fine if you want to do that, but I didn't sign up for that.
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I signed up to be in a band with people that I loved.
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And for Radiohead, I think one of the key components, you know, you've got the the notes and the notes are mathematical intervals and patterns, very nice. >> Mhm.
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But at the heart of Radiohead, there's this soul. >> Oh, yeah. >> You know? >> It's the magic. >> It's the magic.
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And And if that's not there, which it wasn't for me, I'm not doing it because they're just notes.
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And that last tour, it was the first time I'd gone out on tour and was like, I enjoyed the 2 hours that we played to an audience, but it was the audience that I was getting it from.
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I And I And I just felt there was this hole in the band.
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And um >> So, you were relieved when everyone agreed to take time off. >> Yeah. We all knew. We all knew.
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>> So, a few years later, >> Yeah. >> The Smile comes out. >> Yeah.
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>> Were there moments when you listen to that album and you'd be like, man, I'd love to have chopped it up on that?
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Like, there's definitely some groove and some feel in that >> Yeah.
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>> that you must recognize as as being from the DNA of your band, obviously. >> It's beautiful.
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I hear Tom and I hear Jonny and I I remember what one of the things that I loved about The Smile was I heard a lot of Jonny. You know? And I loved that. And I I was like, okay.
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You know, stuff that he'd he'd put in and it You know, when he'd play with us and sometimes it wouldn't be given the space because we'd all be clutching up with further notes and melodies and stuff.
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But I loved the kind of the the the stripped-downness of it.
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And you know, and and and Jonny's angular thing, which is so Jonny. So, I loved that.
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And obviously, you know, But the other thing that I loved it funny enough, I loved hearing Tom play bass. >> Yeah.
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>> Cuz Tom He's an incredible bass player.
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>> Yeah, Tom used to play bass back in I In fact, the first time I saw him at school, he was carrying a bass on the school bus like age 14. >> Yeah.
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>> So, there are all these things that, you know, you you know, cuz you know what?
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Bands like you you each have your role.
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And then you know, it's very hard to stretch out.
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So, they were able to stretch out on that.
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So, >> Did it give you some clarity and some insight?
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I'm glad you brought up roles because, you know, when you take a step away from that chemistry and that magic that just is is omnipresent in your life, you get some distance.
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And as you start to emerge from your own search for self, do you have a better understanding about what your role is in the band mentality as you became more clear about who you are as an individual?
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>> I think I always had an idea of what I brought to the band.
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I was just really insecure about it, you know?
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And I think I was always felt sort of I always felt like, you know, in musical hierarchies, there's Tom and Jonny, and I was kind of like, you know, I was sort of >> The rhythm section's its own thing. >> And then where am I?
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So when we made Kid A, I was in a really dark place again.
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And then we were dismantling the band of how it was, the form of it.
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And I'm like, you know, >> [laughter] >> I'm like smoking a lot of spliff.
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I'm taking sort of herbal antidepressants, and I'm sort of medicating myself. >> Yeah, exactly.
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And I'm like, what do I do?
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>> God, that's tough, isn't it?
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Cuz it's just like, okay, I don't know if I like I don't know if I want to play a chaos pad.
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>> No, I I was I was fine playing a chaos pad.
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I was just like, I don't I don't know whether I can do it.
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You know, cuz when you're depressed, you have no self-confidence whatsoever.
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And you see other people thriving, and then you I see it from the inside. It's interesting.
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And and and I think what's interesting about bands are because I know the way the way suddenly I view bands, and you have this view, and you view it from the outside, and you think it's You think it's like this this and this. >> same thing. >> Yeah.
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But then what goes on within a band?
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That's why I find bands so interesting, and the chemistry, right? >> Yeah.
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>> And what was so amazing when we came back So when we had to um we had to commit to those shows last year.
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So you have to book these shows, you know, a year in advance.
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>> So the management go, are you are we going to commit to them?
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We go, "Well, how can we?
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We don't know we haven't played together for 5 years.
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We don't know whether we've got that thing."
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So, we had to um go in a rehearsal room.
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>> Can I ask you to pause that thought?
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I just I just have a I have a side question on that.
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What was the motivation toward booking the shows if not from inside the rehearsal room and having felt the chemistry and then saying, "Hey, that was really fun. Let's book some shows."
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The conversation about having shows was being had before you'd even gone and have found that thing again.
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So, what was the spark to make you even think about booking shows when you'd been away for so long?
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>> I think we felt the friendship sort of come back.
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I think I remember Johnny had his 50th.
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And I remember standing around a fire talking to Tom and you know, Tom and I've always been we was really close.
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And I hadn't seen him for a long time.
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We'd sort of drifted apart.
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And then we stood next to fire and sort of, you know, how are you? How are you?
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You know, that that classic guy kind of stuff. >> [laughter] >> My god.
18:13
Again, I just want to remind everybody that nothing says alpha male like Thom Yorke and Ed O'Brien standing around a fire. How you doing?
18:20
How you How you [laughter] doing? How you How you doing? What's going on?
18:23
The two two of the people who have given the award the most sensitive musical output of all time are just broadcasters at heart.
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>> [laughter] >> It's nuanced, but yeah, you're right. >> I love that.
18:35
>> Um but yeah, you could feel it you know, you could feel the friendship I could feel the love.
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And I think what I And I know here's a now that coming out that dark place. >> Yeah.
18:43
>> What came to me was I was like I love these guys so much. You know, we're family. We are brothers. What we've been through.
18:53
And sometimes and I'm so I going to that dark place, you really something I could come out of and I go you know to have had this experience this extraordinary experience with first of all those four are incredible musicians, right? >> Oh, yeah.
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>> And the other thing, they're really beautiful human beings.
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You know, and like family, we're all little bit gnarly, but everybody has a really really good heart. Really good heart.
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Nobody's trying to stiff one another.
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You know, there's there's genuine kindness and I think I think that's the thing that came to me, but I think it came to everyone else as well.
19:33
You could feel at the the band meetings.
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You know, the band cuz you have to have keep cuz it's a business, right? >> of course.
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>> So, you know, in lockdown, they were slightly frosty Zoom meetings.
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>> [laughter] >> Sorry, Zoom, but don't do Zoom meetings.
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You don't get the love in those meetings.
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And then you have to be in a room together.
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And you have to feel the energy between you.
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And it just became warmer and then I think Brian said, our manager Brian message said, I think he he was gauging the temperature of the room and said, "How about some shows, guys?"
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And we were like, "Well, I'm not not averse to it.
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We're not averse to it, but >> Let's see.
20:09
>> Let's see, but also >> we don't have to do it.
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And that if you don't feel you have to do it >> That's everything. >> It's everything.
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We don't have to play another gig and I'm I'm always so funny.
20:19
The fact that we went away so all the streaming numbers went up. It's so bizarre.
20:24
>> Yeah, because it's funny.
20:24
We don't actually allow ourselves the If you're an artist, you don't allow your audience the space to to actually appreciate your music because you're constantly saying, "How about this new one? How about this new one? How about this new one?" >> Yeah, it exactly.
20:37
And it and and suddenly, you know, you and I think it's that thing when you when Look at Isn't amazing how you think about you know this better than I do, but artists who you know, they carry on doing it and they get a bit long in the tooth and we take them all for granted and they stop.
20:53
And they're we're kind of done with them.
20:54
Well, Bowie was the classic example, right?
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In the '90s, he couldn't get arrested.
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And look where he is now and look where he was at the end of his life.
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But everybody seems to go through that. >> But you guys stopped.
21:05
And that was that was big whether you realized it or not.
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It was a big moment obviously for you personally and what was to follow.
21:14
But in terms of how we felt about Radiohead, I mean it's it's classic, isn't it?
21:17
For the first of 3 to 5 years, we were just like, "Where are they? Where are they? Where are they?" >> No, you're not. >> Really?
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You're not in the You're not on the internet much. I get that. >> No, I'm not.
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>> [laughter] >> You're not good. Okay.
21:28
It's probably a good place for you to be not on the internet. I'm on the internet. >> Okay.
21:33
>> So there's a lot of like >> Okay.
21:34
>> wouldn't it be nice if >> Right.
21:36
>> we got a new or they came back or they played or there was a I mean every Glastonbury, it's like, "Will they?" Every Coachella, "Is it? Can they?"
21:43
You're always on the list, right?
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Cuz it cuz there's a lot of people who still haven't had the Radiohead experience. >> Yeah. Two. >> Yeah.
21:49
>> And everyone who has wants another one.
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So it's like you're hitting it on both sides.
21:53
But then just as everyone was like, "Okay.
21:56
We're on our third small record.
21:58
Johnny's out here being busy.
21:58
You know, as you said, Colin's out here doing all sorts of interesting and he's rolling with Nick and >> That's cool. >> And la la la.
22:06
Not sure where you are, but that's obviously stewing and building.
22:07
Just as we're like, "Okay, I guess it's not Oh, they're back." >> Yeah.
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>> And it's just You didn't even realize it, but your timing was so spot on. >> Right.
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>> It was just as we were like, "Well, I guess we're just not going to wait around much anymore."
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And then here are these shows being announced. >> Mhm. >> How did it feel?
22:22
Okay, I back getting back to the rehearsal room just for like a few more minutes.
22:27
Um what was the first song you played? Do you remember? >> Planet Telex.
22:31
>> That's why you wanted it in the set. >> Yeah.
22:33
Well, we did we did that thing.
22:33
It was like Paul Studio, Paul Epworth Studio. >> Mhm.
22:39
>> The Church in Crouch End. >> Mhm.
22:41
>> Thursday morning, 11:00. >> Mhm.
22:43
>> Everyone We said we're going to start at 11:00.
22:44
Everyone's there at 5:00 to.
22:47
Tom got and he we we had a list and we said it he said he said should you start with Planet Telex.
22:52
So we went through the bends.
22:53
Went through the bends and OK Computer before lunch.
22:57
>> [snorts] [laughter] >> How was it when you got to Paranoid, man?
23:01
Cuz I'm sorry, that's >> Yeah, it's like I'm I'm ready for a sandwich.
23:05
>> Yeah, no [laughter] Cuz what's that?
23:07
That's like your 14th song in a row and that's what and that's >> Yeah, no, it was That's tricky that one.
23:13
>> Yeah, but it was what was what was It was that classic thing we didn't do much talking.
23:18
And I I just had this sense it was I was Oh, okay.
23:24
We're like a five-limbed organism. It was so bizarre.
23:28
It was so like the muscle memory, the but the but the thing that thing that bands or people a group of people have who play together >> Yeah. >> It's it is magic.
23:40
It There is a magic to to it. >> Totally.
23:44
>> But when you're doing it when you're >> magic. That's what music is. >> Yeah, exactly.
23:47
What was liberating about it?
23:49
What I realized was it was like in a way it was kind of like our village hall rehearsals back in the late '80s. >> Yeah.
23:56
>> Cuz it was the first time we'd done a rehearsal where there was no expectation of new material >> Mhm.
24:04
>> and or going on a tour. There was no pressure.
24:07
There was suddenly they were just songs that we had we'd played.
24:12
So it was just this this very lovely kind of familiar um and deep place.
24:23
>> With the ones that that that that got you.
24:27
>> Cuz that's the thing about radio hits.
24:28
We've got we've gotten used to the fact that some of the ones that we hold dearest just may not be played at this moment in this era of the band cuz they don't speak to the new album or they don't speak to where we are as a band and what we're trying to say as a whole. >> Yeah. >> In its entirety. >> Yeah.
24:42
>> So when when you get a clip of Let Down again man, you know, I was in tears.
24:47
Like I mean even people all over the world were because we'd waited for that riff for a long time.
24:50
And you've got so many songs that are just sitting there.
24:55
I always think of them like just like [laughter] should I Should I make you feel really bad?
24:59
They're like They're like dogs waiting for their owners to come home, you know?
25:02
Just sitting there like sitting there like Let Downs been like this waiting for like a long time for you to come through the door. >> Yeah.
25:08
It's that beautiful golden retriever, that. >> That one. >> Very loyal. >> Very loyal.
25:12
>> Yeah, I mean, that was one of them.
25:12
I think Let Down, Weird Fishes.
25:14
Um And what's what's really is funny.
25:18
It I mean, it's again, it's the kind of I do think it's the kind of the miracle of the medium working in music that again that you if you think about it, then they're they're they're mathematical intervals played in patterns.
25:35
Essentially, that's what music is. >> Yeah.
25:37
>> But they're able to hold an energy.
25:40
>> How do I show up to work every day and someone takes that math and does something I've never heard? >> Yeah, right. It's extraordinary.
25:44
And that's where the magic is, you know?
25:45
And that that it's extraordinary, right?
25:47
If you It is they're just mathematical interval patterns, yet they're able to hold an energy and they're able to hold our emotions.
25:57
They can hold joy, sadness, indifference, anger, fear, all these things.
26:04
And And for me, and this is part of the journey, and and this might sound strange to you cuz you've never heard me talk like that like this.
26:10
But for me, what I've realized and it's a co-creation with spirit. It's all about spirit. We are channels.
26:18
>> And and and spirit I feel spirit only joins you, only comes in when spirit sees you in a place where you're ready to receive.
26:31
You know, if you >> Is that what gratitude is?
26:33
>> Gratitude, a good heart, humility, all those things.
26:37
If you think I'm the big I am, the ego, you're going to get your ass kicked.
26:43
And there are so many examples of artists, bands that I've loved who've had spirit in abundance, and then they get huge and they get all confused, and that deserts them. And what happens?
26:53
The music deserts them as well. >> Mhm.
26:56
>> I really believe that.
26:57
>> Cuz the scale, cuz the math takes over.
26:59
>> Yeah, but they make they start making the wrong decisions, and they forget, and they And I think they don't realize how much spirit that other thing plays a part.
27:07
And so, for me, what I my life is all about it's that connection.
27:15
And so, if I have that, if I have that, then hopefully the music follows.
27:22
So, the notes can take care of themselves.
27:25
I'm not concentrating, but that to me and And that's the connection with with with God, with spirit, in nature.
27:32
And hopefully, I'll see what happens.
27:36
But but I'm able to carry on making music, cuz to me, that is the key ingredient.
27:40
You need to have the math as well.
27:42
You need to have the notes.
27:44
Obviously, it's a balance. >> Mhm.
27:45
>> But I can't do I mean, I realize this as a musician.
27:48
I'm not a good enough musician.
27:50
Some people can just do the notes, and they can play like that. >> Mhm. >> I can't do that.
27:54
I remember like you know, if I'm not into a song, I can't contribute.
27:59
A part doesn't have A part doesn't emerge.
28:01
I just can't >> You were in a memory before you said that.
28:04
What we What what What made you think of that? What was the example?
28:08
>> [laughter] >> Well, I was just about to say I was going back to the mothership.
28:10
You know, there are plenty of tracks that never made an album. >> Mhm.
28:15
>> There's a lot of drudgery as well involved in a band as well, like working on tracks.
28:19
There's a track that I won't mention that I think we spent more time working on than any other song.
28:22
It's never made an album, and there's a good reason, cuz it's not very good.
28:30
>> [laughter] >> Honestly, I remember like this one song, and if I were to say this one song to to Johnny or or Paul and go like the song and it And we'd be like roll our eyes, cuz But we We're all like that, in a way.
28:42
But it's that thing that if you if you don't feel connected with the music >> Yeah.
28:48
>> I'm not a session musician. I can't do that.
28:50
I can't So It's the key thing and it's been the key thing for Radiohead. It's not the key thing.
28:56
It's one of the key things because the maths and the you know the brilliance of Johnny Greenwood arrangement or a Tom lyric or you know a top line melody or you know there are there are lots of but that is at the heart of it and I don't it's the it's the thing that holds everything.
29:11
If you don't have that I mean for me for instance those shows last year people saying how do you feel about it?
29:19
I said I only had one thing.
29:23
If there's love between the five of us then it all works.
29:26
If there's no love it doesn't work because again those are just notes.
29:32
But how do you elevate them?
29:32
You elevate them with love between the five of you and I knew that if the five of us had that then it's the rest takes care of itself.
29:43
It's got to come from that.
29:44
>> And you can't fake that.
29:44
You can't lie You can't lie about it.
29:47
You can't travel on separate buses.
29:50
>> No it would have been devastating if if you'd done those shows and felt like it was you know >> do that.
29:54
>> I thought you were cooked at the end.
29:54
I saw the I saw the I saw Well not just you but I thought the band was.
29:59
I saw I saw footage of the last show in London.
30:01
You looked like you were in tears.
30:02
Tom looked like he was in tears.
30:04
It looked like goodbye to me. >> We were exhausted.
30:06
We did 20 shows only 20 shows right? Only 20. >> 20 shows though.
30:11
>> Yeah but I think they were like the middle ones.
30:13
I think they were eight to 12. >> Yeah.
30:16
>> We were exhausted because it's so emotional. It was so powerful. >> Yeah.
30:21
>> Not only between us but but the extraordinary exchange of energy you know that that happens.
30:25
So yeah we we were cooked. >> Yeah.
30:29
>> And that's when Tom lost his voice so we we went on to Copenhagen he got really ill.
30:34
And so we had to cancel two shows.
30:36
We did them at the end thankfully.
30:38
So it was it was it was it was beautiful, but it was there's no way we could do more than 20 shows.
30:46
>> But you're going to do some more, right? >> Maybe.
30:48
>> That's like [laughter] for that.
30:49
I'll take that as a poorly constructed yes.
30:52
>> That's a Radiohead yes.
30:53
>> That's a Radiohead yes, for sure. >> Maybe.
30:56
>> Um there's a moment incantations on this album where as the drums reveal themselves and the rhythm section starts to evolve and things start to find their groove.
31:05
I feel like the sun just just cuts through the cloud just a little bit, but it's still cloudy. Mhm.
31:09
But then it gets to Blue Morpho and I feel like things really starts to go very wide.
31:15
Now, I wanted to talk about the importance of that second piece of music, in particular the string arrangement.
31:21
You and Paul creditors writers together on that song and how that piece of music really came to be because I think it's I think it's the best piece of music you've ever made. >> Wow, thank you. Well, thank you.
31:31
Blue Morpho is it it was actually funny enough when Paul and I first started working together pre this was 2020.
31:44
We did a couple of days in the studio just trying out this guitar.
31:47
Um trying this guitar and that was one of the the riffs and stuff the guitar stuff I sort of played to him.
31:55
I think what's extra what I find extraordinary about the whole process is and this is the thing what I I I feel like I'm a complete beginner in this as a songwriter.
32:03
And the thing that I find so amazing is that when these little ideas come out and they're not like again, it's coming through you.
32:13
I'm a conduit these things and you go, "Oh my god, it's like this." >> Yeah, yeah, yeah.
32:15
Your inner voice is just >> Yeah, but you can hear >> Yeah.
32:19
>> potential of what this thing and might become and that is an extraordinary thing.
32:24
I find that completely intoxicating cuz I'm in this tiny little box room with one window. >> Mhm.
32:29
>> It's a tiny little thing and I'm I can hear the universe of this song, right? >> Mhm.
32:35
>> What happened on that song was again, part of my process has been I'm I'm letting go.
32:43
You know, part of the whole thing in my life is I'm letting go.
32:44
I'm not like that holding on. I'm the people pleaser. I'm just letting go.
32:47
So, the music, the way that that song starts is it starts in my studio in Wales.
32:54
A beautiful summer's day. Paul was actually away.
32:56
Riley McIntyre, who co-produced and engineered the album, him and I, we had the windows up.
33:00
We had a microphone outside to record the birds cuz we thought cuz I'm you know, I bird song is something that I'm I love now and we thought we're going to make a sort of do an Eno-esque track and process it and but so we had a mic doing and then I had this song and I was just like, well, I don't know what the arrangement.
33:22
We just like, okay, I'll just play.
33:25
And there were all these little parts, these things that I just just came as we did this literally one one one version through.
33:33
And that's the arrangement. Wow. That's the arrangement.
33:37
>> going to ask you, the reason why I think it's such an incredible body of music, but apart from obviously the emotion, the feeling, and the the revelation that you've come to and it is um those songs that don't exist in a traditional framework are very hard to rein in. >> Yeah.
33:50
>> Cuz it's all instinct.
33:50
Cuz you're not really leaning into what's been done before.
33:53
I mean, there is no traditional arrangement to Blue Morpho.
33:55
You felt your way through it.
33:58
>> I had a moment in that first lockdown.
34:00
And I was listening to 6 Music.
34:00
It was like week six in lockdown. >> That beautiful. >> Mhm.
34:06
>> And I heard a song that has been so dear to me by a hugely influential band.
34:13
And I heard it and something snapped and I went, I never need to hear this piece of music again.
34:20
And what it was was this indicative of I'm done with that genre. I'm done with the form.
34:26
I'm sort of done with A B A B C B get out the song.
34:29
I mean, I know Radiohead weren't traditional and but I I to me because what I was going through >> Mhm.
34:40
>> I was done with the form I I'm listening to nature.
34:42
I mean, nature nature doesn't nature's there's there there is a form there but it's like jazz.
34:47
And for me that's why I lent more into I was listening more to jazz.
34:50
So, I listened you know, Giles Giles Peterson show on a Saturday became like it was my It's church. It's church.
34:58
And you know the way he curates it? >> Best.
35:02
>> And the universe >> He's the reason I came to London. >> Really?
35:05
>> I didn't come to London to chase this. Like I like this. This is great.
35:07
I came to London to go to try to sit out on Giles Peterson's doorstep >> Yeah, right. album. >> There you go. >> want to Okay.
35:15
I wanted to sign to Talking Loud. >> Yeah, right. Okay, of course.
35:19
>> didn't work out for me. >> Yeah.
35:22
>> [laughter] >> So, I'm talking about this thing >> all go wrong?
35:24
>> We can say well, the music wasn't very good but apart from that no, it's fine.
35:27
Uh but no, I mean he's he's the greatest. He's the greatest.
35:30
>> his show is like a lie and you know, the way he brings and he curates everything.
35:34
And of course, there's a lot of Brazilian music which I love as well.
35:36
So, for me I was really I was done with the form.
35:40
I was just I How do we do this?
35:43
I don't know how I mean, I don't know how I'm doing this.
35:45
I literally That's why I say I let go. >> Mhm.
35:50
>> Okay, let's see what happens.
35:51
>> You may not want to say people have want me to ask.
35:53
I'm going to ask in a really loving way and maybe that'll jog you to make you want to reveal but rather than the song that broke you out of the form, what was the last song that you were listening to on 6 Music that made you realize the form was perfect in its own way but you were going searching for something else. What was that song?
36:10
>> That's a good question.
36:13
>> [laughter] >> Uh I don't know.
36:14
I mean, I've sort of started re-embracing it.
36:18
It could have been something like William, It Was Really Nothing by The Smiths.
36:22
It could be because they were perfect pop songs.
36:25
>> Perfect pop songs that Morrissey would insist on trying to ruin in the best possible way.
36:29
And I mean that in it's a it's the highest compliment.
36:31
He would take a look at these wonderful spiraling tidal waving guitars.
36:34
By the way, The Smiths do not get enough credit for the rhythm section. >> Unbelievable. believable.
36:41
>> Andy Rourke, you talk to Johnny about this and Andy Rourke cuz Andy Rourke was a guitar player. >> You could tell.
36:46
>> And and he played with Johnny a long time and you know, Andy Rourke's bass playing was incredibly melodic.
36:51
>> lead guitar player on bass. >> 100%. >> opinion.
36:53
You know, great >> drama, great bass player.
36:55
But then Morrissey would come in, you know, talking about demented school uh goals in Manchester schools and >> Yeah. Yeah.
37:01
just it was the best misery of my childhood.
37:04
>> a big thing in New Zealand for you?
37:06
>> Massive thing for me cuz my brother got into them. >> Yeah.
37:08
>> And so I'd sneak into his room.
37:10
I remember listening I remember putting on Hatful of Hollow for the first time and thinking like, okay, I this guy's a misery. I love this. >> Yeah.
37:19
>> And it really spoke to me and I felt like it matured me in into my emotions in a good way.
37:23
But um you know, and then we all went to parties and all my friends and we'd all wear the Doc Martens and try to get the quiffs and the national health passes and all that sort of Like we were obsessed with them. >> Yeah.
37:32
>> But yeah, just you know, that is the misery of my childhood that band.
37:35
>> [laughter] >> You know, The Cure was scary to me.
37:35
Like 17 Seconds was scary. >> I love that record. >> Oh, same. But it's so scary. >> so dark.
37:42
>> Dude, the cover is like revenant blurry black and white blah >> Well, you should have been a teenager in 1981 in Britain which was so dark in those days. >> Thatcher, man.
37:52
>> And it it was it was the soundtrack to to November afternoon on a Saturday with >> [laughter] >> Every underpass it was like Exactly.
38:04
>> You know what's going to really brighten this up?
38:05
The coldest drum loop you've ever heard in your entire life. >> Yeah. hell, man. >> Yeah.
38:10
And that's why goth had such an impact as well because it was it was dark.
38:14
>> Did you go through a goth phase?
38:16
>> Uh I was yeah, we all went through a semi-goth phase.
38:19
>> through for semi-goth phase.
38:20
>> Yeah, I wasn't full Colin I's full-goth.
38:23
He was >> He gives goth energy.
38:25
>> Yeah, alien sex fiend, sex gang children.
38:28
>> You're more Zig Zig Sputnik goth than I.
38:30
come on, shout out to Tony James.
38:32
And we >> gives goth energy. >> Does he? Well, he's a bad seed. >> He's a bad seed. >> He's a bad seed. goth energy.
38:38
>> there's goth goth energy.
38:39
>> No >> But we were all we were all a bit Bauhaus, you know. >> Yeah.
38:44
>> Death Cult, Southern Death Cult, all of it.
38:46
I mean, it The only It's interesting where we grew up in Oxfordshire was very, very, very white.
38:52
So, what It was interesting when I went to Manchester, >> Mhm.
38:56
>> there were a lot of kids from London. >> Mhm.
38:59
>> And for them, they brought all this reggae groove and all this, you know, essentially black British and American music. >> Mhm.
39:07
>> And I realized that the If you wanted to be cool in from London, that's what you listened to.
39:13
You You leaned into that music.
39:13
In Brit- In where we were in Oxfordshire, it was very white.
39:18
So, if you wanted to find the edge, >> Yeah, yeah.
39:21
>> you would >> go to Dublin to find the edge.
39:23
>> Yeah, I knew YOU'D SAY THAT.
39:27
>> [laughter] >> ANYWAY, IF YOU WANT TO FIND THE EDGE IN OXFORDSHIRE, >> YOU KNOW, you'd lean into to goth and you'd lean into The Smiths and that's where you'd find your edge, you know.
39:37
So, it was it was You're always trying to seek something away from slightly away from the mainstream.
39:42
>> You know, you did crack it with You though, right?
39:43
I mean, you guys are so hard about that first album.
39:45
I feel like I don't know if you love that first album as much as some of the fans love that first album.
39:49
But the first song on your first album is still a You don't love that song? I love that song. People love that song. You's amazing. >> Oh.
40:00
>> You still play it once in a while. >> No. >> Get out of here.
40:03
>> [laughter] >> Come on.
40:04
>> We didn't play anything off Pablo Honey. >> No, you didn't. >> We skipped that.
40:06
I mean, you know, I >> You didn't even play it in the rehearsal but you sang it.
40:10
>> talk about Pablo Honey?
40:11
>> I feel bad for Pablo Honey.
40:11
A lot of dogs sitting at the doorway for you to play it.
40:15
>> was like I >> Scrappy dogs.
40:17
>> We didn't know Well, maybe that was a good thing. I don't know.
40:21
It was Yeah, we were just Yeah.
40:25
You can see I'm struggling for words. I don't know. >> I love it. I love to see it. I love to see it.
40:28
I finally [laughter] I finally >> Please, no, Pablo. I need to chat. >> I I broke the man. I broke the man.
40:34
Um you're going to do shows and you're going to bring this music to life and you know, um what [snorts] form does that take in a in a formless environment where song structure doesn't play the role it used to for you or needs to, I should say? >> know.
40:46
I mean, I think we are I'm I mean, Dave Okumu is a key >> So good.
40:53
>> key musician and he's like a brother to me. >> I love him.
40:55
Please say hello from me. >> I will do.
40:57
>> I haven't seen him for a while.
40:58
>> I was with him and Eska >> Mhm.
41:00
>> and we were plotting something couple of weeks ago, just finding the right balance about I'm kind of because I think the thing for me is or for us is trying to find the formless, but trying to find that place where music making it I don't know, making it different, making it sort of I I I it's it's it's hard to talk about it in a way, but it's like a sacred something sacred about it, you know?
41:37
And I I I you know, when I was in the space and I'm in the space, I'm I'm trying to You're looking at me like >> Yeah, because I just feel like >> It's hard to talk about this stuff.
41:47
You've known me in the >> I know, but also because learning to let go is a lifelong process. >> Yeah, exactly.
41:52
>> And I'm not sure you've learned to let that part go.
41:55
>> completely and this is part Of course, it's ongoing.
41:57
I've I'm I'm I've got the intention of letting go.
42:01
So, for me, I'm really, you know, for instance, part of my musical rehabilitation is like listening to Coltrane, listening to A Love Supreme and going and almost like trying to decode it like he is he's this is gratitude to spirit to to to God. What is going on here? >> Somewhere else.
42:21
>> Somewhere else, right?
42:21
And so what there's something about that also Alice Coltrane.
42:27
>> This is why drugs played such sadly played such an essential role in the lives of some of these players because once they came back to earth it didn't have the magic that they had when they were somewhere else. >> Exactly. >> That's what I think.
42:38
>> Yeah, we're chasing transcendent moments and drugs can give you that.
42:41
>> Well, what they >> There's a shortcut.
42:42
>> When you have to put your instrument down and you don't want to come back to reality, then the drugs may get may help. >> Yeah, yeah. >> May you stay there. >> Yeah. >> But they don't.
42:50
They take you further away from the transcendent and we know that now.
42:53
But back then it was like oh I can find a balance between the two and it's like cuz the transcendent is like >> That's what that's it, right?
42:59
And that's what we're all chasing and that and so effectively what I'm interested in is doing a putting together having an evening of music.
43:09
And that's what we're aiming for.
43:09
But you can't you you know you can't say oh we're going to have a transcendent moment.
43:14
It's like you aim for it and it's up to spirit it's up to it's up to the room it's how everyone arrives in that space.
43:20
>> of course there's a lot.
43:21
>> So but >> And it requires grace too cuz if it's not if the room isn't quite there you just got to go with it.
43:25
>> Yeah, and I also want to get into that place where we can we can spin stuff out.
43:28
So we can take a track so a track like incantations we can and we can get into that dubby bass place and we get into that tribal thing.
43:39
I've always kind of been jealous of I mean you you're a DJ but I've always been jealous of DJs the way that they can get that you know you can hold a room.
43:49
>> Yeah, we got to read it.
43:50
>> You got to read it, right? Exactly.
43:50
But you can hold a room and you get people moving as one. >> Yeah, yeah.
43:56
>> That is what I would love you know you're not going to start with that but it's a journey but I would love us to be able to get to that place.
44:02
>> Well, you know what's going to help is also probably getting to a place where you you yourself the grace and the acknowledgement that you may have to break the room to rebuild it.
44:08
I've seen the best DJs in my life walk go on after someone has had the room like this. >> Yeah. >> And empty the floor. >> Yeah. >> On purpose. >> Yeah, on purpose.
44:20
>> So they can rebuild it. >> Amazing. I love that. >> You know. >> Would you do that? >> No. >> [laughter] >> No.
44:27
I because maybe I would now.
44:29
>> You would now cuz you've got the >> Cuz I've learned to appreciate that.
44:31
But when I was in the middle of it, people pleaser.
44:35
>> Yeah, you wouldn't you don't want >> What do you want? What do you want? I want to keep it going. Let's keep this going. >> Yeah. >> Don't walk away.
44:40
Oh my god, that just That's the rejection.
44:42
I'm terrified of rejection. >> Yeah.
44:45
>> Cuz that's what we're terrified >> Yeah, that's it.
44:46
And it's generally it's that thing and you know, and also taking a leaf out you can take it out of the jazz musicians but also bands like the Grateful Dead.
44:52
You know, I don't I'm fascinated by the Grateful Dead. I don't understand it.
44:57
But I so love the whole culture and you talk to a deadhead right and they'll go, you know, they do two sets. >> Yeah, yeah.
45:06
>> And it wouldn't happen in the first set.
45:09
And then 20 minutes into the second set, the band get on one and the audience recognize it and that's the moment of transcendence.
45:16
But I love the boldness of that.
45:19
Again, it's like the DJ clearing the floor, isn't it?
45:20
It's like we don't know whether it's going to happen tonight.
45:23
But if it does, and it's kind of it's out of the musicians' hands as well.
45:28
>> a big leap for people pleaser, self-acknowledged people pleaser.
45:30
>> Oh, yeah, but >> I mean, you must have had some really terrifying Radiohead shows when you're out there looking at the crowd and because of the nature and democracy of the band, it's like, okay, we're going to start with five deep cuts.
45:44
And you're like, let's just hit them with a big one.
45:46
Just give us one big one.
45:48
Just give them one big one. Just come on.
45:49
It's cuz Stone always used to say that about Pearl Jam.
45:52
He'd be like, every now and then when Eddie would do a set let's fight fifth night in a row and he'd start with a deep cut.
45:56
I just want to say to them, let's just hit them with a live, baby.
46:00
Let's just go out the gate. Let's go out the gate.
46:03
>> Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, it's funny.
46:05
Well, you know, Philip, Tom and I do the set lists.
46:10
And it was funny when we I was looking at this the set list for a Moonshake Pool cuz we were you know, you hadn't we're putting set lists and you go you look at the old and we're like oh, that's exactly what we do we were doing every night. We were doing deep cuts.
46:22
Like you deep cuts for the first five songs.
46:25
The point about that is it's not gratuitous deep cuts. It's actually not a you. It's like >> It's a hug.
46:32
That was a >> Yeah, yeah, exactly.
46:33
It's like saying we we're going to do something different and let's try and see if this works.
46:40
Let's see if this you know, these we start with Daydream we and we did basically the first five tracks on Moonshape Pool.
46:45
And you know, when you do Glastonbury you don't normally do that.
46:50
You know, it's not like it's it's >> Yeah, you come out like Blur and hit them with Girls & Boys out the gate and away you go. >> Right.
47:00
And there's and that actually if you really want to get the party started, that's what you do. >> Oh, I loved it too.
47:05
>> Just that Oh, thank you. I mean, thank you. Okay.
47:07
>> And you could see see the crowd just being so like Okay.
47:12
Cuz that's what makes you you.
47:14
>> Well, yeah, but it was funny because I remember >> weirdest success story of all time.
47:17
>> I rem- well >> No, you're a weird band.
47:21
>> Yeah, we are we are which is great.
47:21
We were >> You're a weird band. Okay. Hm.
47:25
The album uh the I'm going to call it an album.
47:27
It's it definitely is 38 minutes worth of music. Seven songs, beautiful.
47:30
I say this to a lot of artists now have come through the other side of a tough time.
47:33
Um the point is album 20, isn't it isn't isn't the idea to get to album number 20? >> Yeah. Yeah, it is.
47:37
And I had a moment again part of this kind of coming out of this dark place was Susie and I went to uh went to the Tate Britain, saw that there's a Portuguese artist who was still alive and called Paula Rego. She was in her 90s. This is 3 years ago.
47:54
And we it It a retrospective.
47:54
So, you see her first her first painting she did which she won the summer prize at the Slade in like '56.
48:02
And then you saw the arc of her journey.
48:05
And she's still painting.
48:05
She still had a studio in Camden. >> Mhm.
48:08
>> She was still daily going in there and having a glass of champagne with her assistant at the end of the day.
48:13
But you saw the arc of it.
48:15
And it was And to me that was >> That's a life.
48:19
>> It was and it I don't know why it much more so cuz we're all aware of great bands and great musicians who do this art.
48:25
But to see it in a painter in in the in two two hours it it really struck home.
48:30
And it was really beautiful and I was just like, "Oh." You're right.
48:33
Like it's to get to album 20.
48:35
You know, everyone's been celebrating on Tuesday Miles's Miles Davis's 100th birthday.
48:39
You know, and that whole thing is like when when you see an artist in full like at the time when Miles was doing his stuff at the end of the '80s and we were like, "Not sure about this."
48:49
And you know, but then you see it within the context of juxtapose it with, you know, some from a kind of Blue or a Silent Way or Jack Johnson, you go, "Oh yeah, that's really cool." >> Neil. >> Neil, right? Exactly. >> Neil, man. >> Yeah.
49:03
>> rolls up to his barn >> Yeah. Exactly. >> crazy horse >> Yeah. >> fires up >> Yeah. >> gives us Chevrolet.
49:07
That song on one of the last Crazy Horse album, Chevrolet, is such a jam. >> Robert Plant.
49:14
>> There's a guy that I feel that you're slowly turning into. >> He's my North Star.
49:18
>> I feel like you are slowly turning into Robert Plant.
49:21
>> But I'm not have my golden god hair.
49:22
>> Well, hang on a minute.
49:23
>> [laughter] >> You're a little late for that.
49:24
But but But hang on a minute.
49:26
You're out in the middle of Wales >> Yeah.
49:28
>> listening to birdsong >> Yeah.
49:30
Frodo's over there >> [laughter] >> right? >> It's It's deep.
49:34
It's middle It's Middle-earth.
49:37
>> I guess what I'm trying to say in a really loving way is you're a hippie at heart, I think. >> 100%. Shameless. Yeah, I am.
49:43
I'm a hippie and it was funny cuz we grew up, you know, punk.
49:47
I grew up in the sort of post-punk and hippies are And um I have a I'm Yeah, I had a I have a theory because I think that what happens you get these cycles.
49:58
So, you had the hippies, Neil and Joni and everyone and Crosby, Stills and Nash.
50:04
And then what follows next are punk and you So, you get all the you get all the U2's and the R. E. M.' s and the Talking Heads. >> Mhm.
50:12
>> And then the next wave we follow on the next wave.
50:14
We're essentially hippies and we have more in common with Neil and Joni and the Grateful Dead and stuff like that.
50:20
The next wave after us is Coldplay and stuff.
50:22
They are more like U2 and stuff.
50:24
And I think there's this kind of back and forth, right? Does that make sense? >> make sense.
50:28
It's all It does feel cyclical in some way.
50:30
>> kind of like to what went on and you know.
50:33
So, yeah, I I I >> feel Radiohead were born at the wrong time.
50:37
But but but but you divorced your If your family was alternative rock, >> Yeah.
50:44
>> you guys got the out of that room really fast.
50:48
>> We've always hated being pigeonholed.
50:50
>> You have a right to reject it.
50:51
>> Yeah, and we never wanted to be part of anything.
50:52
I mean, you know, back in the '90s we we obviously weren't part of Britpop.
50:56
But we really resonated with Massive Attack and Portishead, more Westcountry and you know, and they weren't part of that.
51:03
So, we just just let us be in the shadows.
51:08
>> Show us to come hopefully some kind of night of music, some kind of reason to go out there and wild out on this music. Yeah, celebrate.
51:15
>> And in the in the truth of this I even asked her what and I was saying that it feels really important at the especially at the moment and this really is to try and create things of beauty.
51:27
Beautiful beautiful occasions because there's so much ugliness out there.
51:30
And that for me was again when I got when I I sort of was at my lowest ebb, it I was like questioning everything. I'm like, who am I? Do I Am I a musician?
51:41
Is this I don't have to do this.
51:45
Well, I can go and feed the peacocks, you know.
51:50
I can, you know, whatever.
51:52
I don't have peacocks, by the way.
51:54
And that's not a metaphor. >> No. No, it's not a metaphor.
51:57
>> But But I was like I was like And the thing that came really strongly was like, at this time you what you're what you're supposed to be doing is to bring try and bring things of beauty into the world. >> Yeah.
52:11
>> And they're little small things and they're they're just small things, but just try and do that.
52:15
And that for me is like Dave and I have been talking to is to really embrace the the the the the the beauty that human beings are capable of.
52:25
And the thing that I worry a little bit about is like on the live thing and this this isn't some kind of digression, but it's part of this is the live thing needs to have some jeopardy.
52:36
So, if you're constantly I'm worried like when I go and see live shows, incredible artists that they've got click tracks, backing tracks.
52:44
It's like a version of Guitar Hero. >> Mhm.
52:47
>> You know, you're just playing along with that thing and you're going along a track. >> Mhm.
52:51
>> I want to see some jeopardy.
52:51
I want to see things >> Mhm.
52:54
>> you know, I want to let's get off the grid. >> Mhm.
52:56
>> Because I think it's a slippery slope and I definitely I've been guilty to you know, you're going to the studio nowadays. >> Mhm.
53:02
>> You know, like next record I'm I don't know click tracks, no feel it out, free.
53:06
>> Go see Dejan next time he does a show, man. >> Really?
53:08
>> What he is doing right now as a musician with his group of musicians, I mean that is the closest thing to going and seeing a Radiohead show when you guys go off, when you spiral off into outer space. >> Yeah.
53:18
>> And it's almost like we don't even need to be there. >> Right.
53:21
>> I say when I see Dejan and his band play, you could pull a curtain between the audience and them and put a camera behind the curtain and they would still be playing with the same level of complete and utter commitment and immersion >> Yeah.
53:32
>> as they would if the audience is right there in front of them. >> Yeah.
53:35
>> That would be a very, very reassuring experience for you because that's a young man with a band. >> Yeah, great.
53:40
>> All right, two more questions for you.
53:41
The first one, um I know you can't answer about the long mid and I don't and I don't and you shouldn't about the medium to long-term future of the band, but would you be content with A Moon Shaped Pool being the last Radiohead album? >> Yeah. >> Wow. >> [laughter] >> Yeah. >> Okay.
54:01
>> But does that mean we'll make another record? I don't know. >> No, it's fine. Yeah, of course. Leave it at that.
54:05
>> Yeah, no, I think it's a beautiful piece of work. >> Same.
54:07
I just thought you would be like there's more road to run for you. >> I've got no idea. I've got no >> for you.
54:14
>> No, I I I think everybody's just really happy doing this doing their thing and and, you know, >> I love the honesty.
54:22
I appreciate you being such a good >> You can feel it, right? I I just >> Oh, 100%. You didn't hesitate.
54:28
You [laughter] hesitated.
54:28
I thought that was going to be a tough one. You're like, "Next." Yeah. All right.
54:32
I didn't actually have a second question. That's it. >> [laughter]