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The hardest person to forgive, often times, is yourself.
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You don't want to need to learn everything the hard way.
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If you learn everything the hard way, you might not survive long enough to reap the benefits of the lesson.
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Whenever I talk about getting sober, I say it like this.
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There's a whole set of events on the edge to drinking time line that I didn't have to deal with.
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Easily the best thing I've ever done for myself.
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Stories do so much better, in my opinion, at relaying values.
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I can tell you all the research, tell you what you should do, but if we watch a character do that, whether that character is fictional or not, then we are really transmitting the principle in action.
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I would like to think that if someone looks at my life, they go, "Well, you know what?
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This guy he has done something.
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And look at the starting block that he had. What is my excuse? Well, hello everyone.
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It's Jim O'Shaughnessy with another Infinite Loops.
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My guest today has been on the podcast a couple of times.
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He keeps putting out fabulous books.
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His name is Ed Latimore, and the book is Hard Lessons from the Hurt Business, which you can find everywhere, as I learned in the podcast.
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You can even find it at Target.
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Please enjoy my conversation with Ed.
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It's awesome that you were on time.
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I was I was expecting a login and and wait a few minutes. So, I had this muffin.
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That's okay with me, man.
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I I It's one of my most Given my other characteristics, it's one of my more unusual ones in that like I had punctuality beaten into me as a child.
2:00
And it was literally my parents were like, "It's just a matter of courtesy." Mhm.
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Well, you It's pretty simple, Jim.
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Like, if you're expected somewhere at 11:00, you should be there at 11:00.
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And like I I I I realized it when I had a guy working for me who was perpetually late.
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And I was really surprised by how annoyed I got.
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Oh, it We're the same person. That's why I was here.
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This is how I am in all things.
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Like, it it actually What's the best word for it?
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I don't know where it came from because it it definitely was not a thing in my house.
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My mom and I constantly went back and forth about this.
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Uh and most of the people around me are not like this. And my wife included.
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She She's not a late person, but I'm like, "Let me so Let me be there like, you know, 15 minutes early." I'm that kind of guy.
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And I'm and I'm about that with everything everywhere.
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If I'm going to a place I don't know, I try to make sure I try to build in being there 30 minutes early because I don't You know what I mean?
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I don't know the route or if I'm going to get lost >> happens, right?
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And and apparently that's a a rare trait.
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You know what it reminds me of?
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Is as I'm reading this book right now called the the triple package. Uh-huh.
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By Amy Chua and Jeb Redfield, maybe? Okay.
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And and the whole idea behind the book is that they went and looked at America's over-performing minority groups. Mhm.
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So, the Mormons, the some of the the conservative Jews, but they they talk about how that's fallen off. We'll get to why.
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Uh but but the groups that really received a lot of attention are the the Chinese and really the Asians in general, and East Asian specifically.
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So, the Chinese, Korean We don't really have a lot of Japanese immigrants in this country, but the Chinese and Korean and then Indian and the Nigerians as well, specifically those that came over from the Igbo and Yoruba tribes.
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And the Indians we have here in this country, a lot of people don't realize this, but they're from the three highest castes.
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And and that makes sense when you think about it that if you immigrate here from all the way in India, you have the means to get here.
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It's not like somebody that came over from Cuba.
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But speaking of the Cubans, they're also another group that gets talked about a lot, particularly the ones who came over when Castro took over. Mhm.
4:54
And the two of the the three triple package parts, superiority complex, inferiority complex, those are important and fascinating within themselves, but the third one in relation to what we're talking about now, impulse control. Yep.
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And how everything is built in to impulse control.
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And when we think about impulse control, we often think of it as stopping ourselves from doing something we would like to do.
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And that that's part of it. That's a big part of it.
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But it's also making yourself do things you don't want to do. Mhm.
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And we know enough about impulse control and willpower that, you know, it it's like a habit Well, not like, it is a habit.
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So, if you get used to controlling yourself in one or two or three areas, then you take that approach and that mindset to other things.
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So, people who show up on time, you know, that is like a interesting form of impulse control that because because it's easy to be late.
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It it's so easy for so many reasons, but it's it doesn't have to, you know, be that way and happen that way.
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And a lot of people let it happen that way.
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You know what's interesting I that I found is like when if you if you So, I've started a lot of companies, as you know.
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I was the chairman of uh the Chamber Music Society of Lincoln Center.
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Um and when I took over the Lincoln Center, which is just volunteer, right?
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It if you're on the board there, does not just volunteer, you got to give money, you got to give your time, you got to do all that stuff, right?
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So, when I took over as chairman, there was an epidemic of lateness, right?
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For every committee meeting, for every board meeting.
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And so, the first uh uh meeting I chaired, basically, I said, "Okay.
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Uh we've got a new way of doing things.
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And that is we're going to give everyone a 5-minute grace period.
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And then we're going to close the door.
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And if the door is closed, people cannot come in."
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And people were really pissed at me.
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Because, you know, half the executive committee didn't get into the first meeting. But guess what?
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But now the standard's set.
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I bet they showed up on time. >> Indeed they did.
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And it works at the board level, it worked at every level.
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You know, oh Jordan Peterson has recently gotten a lot of flak for different reasons, you know, some of it justified, some of it not, you know, whatever.
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But and I've never read the book.
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I'm just familiar with the many of the tenets in the book because they're everywhere.
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One of the ones that uh really stands out in my mind all the time is the whole idea of It's like, "Make your bed or clean your room" or something like that. >> Right. Right. Yeah.
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>> And and like that seems so basic, but it's like it's like the first instance where you get impulse control or the way I used to refer to it, and I still do depending on the context, is conscientiousness.
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Yeah, impulse control, conscientiousness.
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With something as simple as clean your room, >> Mhm.
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then it makes a big difference in how you approach other things.
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You know, like my my mom was, you know, if I give her a report card grade, like, "See, Mom, it's D plus, Mom."
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I had a lot of complaints.
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And in retrospect, I'm able to see a lot of a lot of things she did set set my sister and I up for failure.
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We had to, you know, overcome, you know, one of us better than the other, but but still making moves.
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But that's not to say it was all bad.
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There were a lot of things my mom did very well inadvertently.
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It wasn't like this was an intentional you know, um and one of those things, we had chores, and we were not paid for chores.
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We were expected you know, I guess what was what she was trying to instill, and failed at this, too.
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But eventually, I I figured out and figured it out in my life there was a positive correlation here.
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As if I'm in the home and I'm consuming resources in the home, and I don't contribute to resources, uh then I have to contribute somewhere else.
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And that is cleaning did cleaning my room was a minimum.
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But I had to sweep floors, I had to mop, I had to wash walls, I had to do dishes.
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My sister and I alternated doing dishes. All of this.
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Now, um this is a, you know, I look back, I'm very grateful for that.
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There is no um as a kid you're not thinking of it that way, but but I'm I'm grateful for that.
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But like you know, ultimately, you know, the mistake the mistake here was that the behavior wasn't modeled well enough and there wasn't this link in this concept of a community that we cared about.
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It was just my mom hated a mess.
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It's not like she was teaching, she was like, "I'm tired. You got to do this."
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And and one thing that's really cool I'm finding even with my my 2 and 1/2 year old son.
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So, like that that age is clear or important here that uh they can understand or we can understand reasons for things very early.
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Obviously, there's a there's a complexity limit that increases as we get older, but I think one of the the challenges of being a parent that we all have to meet is finding a way to make the child understand the why. Mhm.
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>> Which is which is very counter I think to a lot of old school parenting where where we'll say, you know, which is like, "I'm the parent. You do it cuz I say so." Which like does it work?
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I mean like like we don't know.
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Whenever someone says, you know, X worked or Y worked, well, we we have to like look at what we're measuring, not just did the kid survive and and really not just did the kid survive and not go to prison.
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Like that that's not Oh, we need something more.
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But I do find that people will tend to be less resistant and and not just less resistant, but more enthusiastic if they if they know why.
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Now now, some things you can't explain to a child because the the requisite complexity won't be there until they have reached the point to where they won't need to be told they shouldn't do this.
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Um for example, um anything like dealing with how they handle their anger.
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I find, especially, you know, just looking at my my young child and seeing that he's young, but now he's not so young that he's the smallest.
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And he's already a bigger kid.
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He He got my genes for better or worse.
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He's been in the 90th percentile for everything or above since the day he was born. Mhm.
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But just seeing him around my other friends' kids who are like a year younger, it doesn't look like he like he looks twice as big.
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I mean, he is he's he's a giant.
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And I'm like, "Okay, they're they are babies.
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They are not as big as you, you know?
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So, you have to help them."
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And he goes, "Oh, I have to help them. Okay."
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Instead of like Which is a lot easier like and and look, that that has yielded far better results than just telling him "You have to share."
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It's like, "No, they're they're babies, so you have to help them.
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You have to show them how to play." And it's like, "Okay."
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Um yeah, which is speaking to the why, right? And >> Yeah.
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that was one thing that we had our first child young. We were 24.
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And but we talked a lot about my wife and I talked a lot about like, you know, how do we want to raise our children, right?
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And and we really talked about it because, you know, it was important to us.
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And and the line that we ended up kind of embracing was our goal and our job is to raise successful and good adults.
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And when when you make that your line of code, right?
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You you can't do the standard because I said so or because, you know, just give them commands without without expla- explanation.
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And and so when my kids would come to me and say, "I I want to do, you know, this."
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I would say, "Okay, why?"
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And and then they would say, "Because I want to." And I'm like, "Oh, okay.
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So, I want to do a lot of things, but the reasons that I want to do those things might not be that great.
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So, here's the deal that I will give you.
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I'm not going to say you can't do it or can do it right now, but if you go away and think about it and you come back and tell me why you want to do this."
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I'll give the example, my son wanted to quit karate.
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He might have been 8 years old.
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Um and he gave me the because I don't like it, you know, and I'm like, "No, no, those aren't good reasons.
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Go away, come back and talk to me about some good reasons." And you know what? He did.
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And he came back and he gave really compelling reasons why he would like to switch sports. And I'm like, "Okay."
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And he like the look on his face was he got it like instantly.
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And so you know, from then on and my girls were the same way.
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If they wanted something, they would come and they'd already prepared.
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Like This is what I want. Here's why I want it. What do you think?
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Yeah, it's it's a really great But but you know what that requires?
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What the the thing I'm I'm finding and and really kudos to you for recognizing that approach so young because and I got to make sure I stay on the train of thought, but but there's a there's a really important point I have to make here.
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There's this big deal about people having kids older than younger.
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Now, the the average age is keep keeps creeping up and I think this year or last year, whatever the number the most recent numbers uh released for the first time in history um more 40-plus-year-olds are having children having more children than people under I think it was 21. Mhm.
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Or or it was teen pregnancies. It was one of those.
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Um and there are there are pros and cons.
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Uh the the the obvious the most at least to me the most obvious pro of having children younger is that you uh will will you'll get to be around when they have grandchildren.
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Or when they have when you when they have children you become a grandparent.
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Like like there's a pretty good chance you'll be around.
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My wife and I have done the math.
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There's a there's a chance, but it's not great. Mhm.
16:44
It's not it's not abysmal, but you know, if if we said, "Okay, if he has kids the same age we had him, there is we will be around and whether we are capable and functional to to be in their lives is a different story and that's largely up to us now and health benefit health habits and things like that. All right?
17:06
So, so there's the the the big pro.
17:08
The other one that some argue, you know, obviously I don't buy into it because, you know, I'm I'm 40 and just had a pro boxing match this Saturday last Saturday uh that I won, mind you. Congratulations. Th- thank you.
17:21
Is that, you know, there's like the health and energy thing and I'm like No, that that is almost directly related to that last point, which is that, you know, if you take care of your health, that's not an issue. Okay.
17:35
Here is the con though, the big con about having children younger that we never thought about until we had more research about this.
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You Obviously, people know right from wrong and can plan things, so this does not excuse things, but you have to understand what you're dealing with.
17:55
Your your brain is not finished developing until you're, you know, we'll put a soft we'll put a reasonable split-the-difference number on it. 28. All right?
18:05
Some say 20, 30, some say 25. 28.
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And not only is it not finished developing, the last part that develops is your prefrontal cortex.
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You know, that part that that that goes, "Hey, let's plan for the future.
18:17
Let's figure out these these is this a good idea, bad idea?"
18:21
That's not to say you can't do it, but you're working with limited hardware until then. Okay.
18:24
So, if you spend if you know, if you have a kid when you're 22, 24 in your case, right?
18:31
If you you spend those first few years really, you know, you're you're still trying to work things out and figure things out.
18:41
You don't have the best approach.
18:41
You might have everything in place you need for what we'll call it the objective success.
18:47
Like you can move into a the objective metrics of success.
18:50
You can move into a good zip code, you can provide for them and feed them.
18:53
You don't have to like be stressed. Things like that.
18:59
But in terms of what you're trying to instill in them to plan for the future, that is that is like a big deal.
19:04
Uh and you just you you don't have it yet.
19:10
Which is traditionally why, you know, or or what the role of like grandparents was, you know, has been is kind of to be there as this guiding force to help you because you're not finished.
19:24
I mean, at least this is just what I posit.
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I know that like from from an economic standpoint, the idea was like, "Okay, if you need to go to work, here are your grandparents who are to do or or here's So, here's the village type thing to help raise a child."
19:39
So, that that really uh is cool that you guys figured that out so early and worked to keep with that.
19:48
So, the point I was going to make though width that that approach we're back to this impulse control idea.
19:57
That that approach requires so much discipline because there are so many times and I'm you can speak to your kids are grown mine mine is on the other end very young and I'm already there.
20:08
There are there are so many times where it would just be so much easier to be like shut up.
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This is how it's going to be done.
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You either get on my page or go in your room kind of do.
20:21
And and what's that teach? Doesn't teach anything.
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That that's one of the reasons why I'm so so adamantly against any type of of of physical discipline for a child because it doesn't teach.
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It is a quick it's a quick corrective mechanism and if you want to even talk about what it actually corrects.
20:46
Uh for younger children they can't even make the association between what they did and what this punishment is and if and if and if the rewards don't match the rewards or the punishments don't match the action.
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If you can't make connection, you you're not learning anything.
21:03
You don't know what to avoid what to do.
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What you do know though what you do learn to do is what you should do to avoid getting your ass kicked.
21:09
That you learn and that does not always turn out the way parents expect it to.
21:20
Like if you always get mad if any of your kids come to you with with with their problems, if they do something wrong, well eventually the kids going to be like hmm I'm just not going to tell them even even though when they they should and so
21:36
you know obviously there's a time and a place for for a um for reaction that is not positive but even that reaction has to be tempered in a way to make sure that there is a a learning element because ultimately what are you trying to do? You're trying to
21:52
You're trying to raise you know my perspective you're trying to raise a net positive to society.
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No one wants to raise a serial killer.
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No one wants to raise a criminal.
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Uh we want to raise people that you know at the very least make the world a better place and if we can't do that at least not mess it up.
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And the only way I think to do that is to to teach.
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I mean that that that's all it is is teaching. Teach teach teach.
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Hopefully you teach them enough to where when they when when the lessons start getting you know attacked is probably the wrong word.
22:26
When they confront the real the the culture of the world everything is built in to help them navigate it and then they still have you as a teaching source because you built that relationship with them while they were growing up.
22:41
While they were younger they go okay I can I can talk to you about this problem. Yeah.
22:47
And the other thing that seemed to work for me and my wife was treat them like they're sentient creatures even though you know they're not.
22:57
And by that I mean with the point you made about the prefrontal cortex not being developed until anywhere between 25 and 30.
23:07
Uh that doesn't mean that you can't give them and I look at it as kind of a form of respect.
23:15
You can give your kids respect by listening to them, correcting and or having a conversation with them about again back to some things they might want and you know that like kids often want a lot of things that are not going to be good for them. Mhm.
23:30
And and so rather than just say no that's not good for you, you you have a like dialogue teaching, right?
23:40
Hey what let's say I let you do that.
23:45
Um what what what what would happen if like you know you got really badly injured.
23:50
Like say they want to go do something extreme, right?
23:52
And and then really listen to what they say to you.
24:00
And again to underline what you said that takes patience. A lot of patience.
24:06
Like literally it you know you're sitting there and you're like I can't believe I'm having a Socratic dialogue with a 6-year-old.
24:14
And not only does it take patience it also forces you to examine some things that you had some some some systems you have been operating on. Bingo.
24:25
And go okay is this is this a real thing or is this just something I feel strongly about?
24:31
And as they feel differently than you about things you'll realize very quickly what's what's an opinion that you have that doesn't make a difference in how another person lives.
24:46
What's an opinion you have that you've kind of drawn a line in the sand this is how we're going to live in this house.
24:54
And and I need you to understand why I feel that way.
24:57
Now you're free to go off and do what you want when you're an adult or you know a little younger but right now this is how it's got to be and other things that they really are like okay this is a problem and I need to explain why that is.
25:11
Um it should it's like every challenge in your life and kids are very much a challenge they're easily I won't say the hardest thing I've ever done. You know what it is?
25:25
It's like it's like a it raises the overall difficulty level of life.
25:30
They're no they're no like individually like large spikes like like a like a in a heavyweight boxing match, right?
25:37
That's a that's a large spike of difficulty.
25:42
Kids just raise the level.
25:42
So you're always like okay thinking worrying this that and the other.
25:47
But uh what you end up figuring out what what I found is so far in my my new journey and all that is you you got to you have to be willing to let yourself develop and become a better person, a more a more knowledgeable person, a more war worldly person uh but also one with stronger boundaries as well because you go okay that's not going to work this is going to work.
26:18
It's amazing the number of things I have to have not necessarily an opinion on but now an awareness of.
26:23
I didn't have to have I have to think about these things, right?
26:27
Um because you know just just a perfect example.
26:33
I never I won't say never yeah never because I don't I'm very good about not letting the news get in my head and letting it even get me close to forming an opinion if there's nothing I can do about it and it won't affect me.
26:50
You know I understand the world there there are horrible things in the world but there are so many horrible things in the world that I can do nothing about that I'm going to focus on what I can do something about.
26:59
So this is always this has been my thought process for a long time and it's and it's really got me through some some rough spots in my life just by remembering I can only control some things and other things I can't and we're not going to worry about those.
27:15
I'm not even going to know about them.
27:17
But now I got to think about the the the big issues or or the kind of the big debates that are revolving around what is being taught in schools. Mhm. Okay?
27:30
I have to think about this now.
27:32
I have to decide what I got to decide if it's true or not because the internet is the internet.
27:37
Uh and then once I decide what's true and what isn't true then I got to figure out where I stand on it and what I'm going to do about it.
27:46
Uh because I have to do something about it now.
27:49
Because just because the world says it's okay.
27:55
And and I'll be very specific here because this was the first time I was like this is this is a crazy world we live in.
27:59
So um I I I can never remember the exact numbers of the bill because I can't but I know it made large headlines or big headlines when the Florida bill came out it was the don't they called it the don't say gay bill which once I learned the details of the bill I'm like that's not even cool, you know that that's that's an incredible example of media manipulation right there because they weren't saying that.
28:24
What what the bill covered once I looked into it is they wanted to prohibit or they want to prohibit or they are prohibiting I don't know what the state of the bill is now.
28:38
The um the ability to talk about us the sexual education in classrooms.
28:44
Now my first thought when I heard this was I was like okay you know we had sex ed in high school.
28:50
There's a there's a there's a clear point where like you need it if for no other reason than you're capable of reproducing and that comes with all types of uh negative downstream effects if you do it wrong or get into the wrong position.
29:05
But and that was all I thought about and then you know back back when John Oliver wasn't so political I was I was a bit of a fan of his and then I stopped watching once his show really just became overly political and this isn't left or right. I can't stand anything.
29:19
I hate CNN just as much as I hate Fox News, all right? It's the same thing.
29:26
Uh it just so happens that uh John Oliver is is heavily left leaning.
29:29
So on his heavily left leaning show he comes on in defense of the bill and in his defense he explains what it actually is which is the the bill didn't want to allow them to discuss sexual education and those concepts and anything around that related to gender, sex, in classrooms of a third grade or lower. And I said, "Hold up. Pause.
29:54
Everybody's freaking out about this.
29:56
When I was growing up, you know, that wasn't some like that wasn't a thing.
30:02
You couldn't talk about that for kind of good reason in classrooms."
30:06
Um because then it's adults who ideally have been vetted introducing a concept to people who aren't even anatomically or neurologically there yet to like deal with it.
30:22
So, I seem to put So, so, so that was like my initial reaction and argument.
30:27
And then, you know, someone else was like, "Well, you know, but the fact that the kids are being taught that there is like the instance where the girl is able to identify what actually is happening to her at home and get and get and get a bad person out of there."
30:40
And I'm like, you know, that that's that's true, too.
30:47
But, these are the things I have to think about now.
30:49
Like, I got a whole new weight in my thought process to think about.
30:52
So, if something like that is in my school district, I have to decide, "Okay, do I want to stay in this district? Do I want to move?"
30:58
I totally get why people move out of school districts because the the two things that make the biggest difference in our outcomes in life one our family, funny, we have no control over that, but but our family, and then second, the people we spend the most time around, which will be directly dictated if for most of us by the zip code we end up in in the school district we end up in.
31:25
So, even if parents aren't consciously thinking about it that way, um that is a downstream effect.
31:30
Wherever you live and wherever you go to the school, those are going to be That's the selection of friends you got to you got to pick from.
31:38
I was There was this this prison YouTuber I listened to cuz he's just a great storyteller.
31:44
And he was talking about when you go to jail, uh you can make some friends, but you got to remember the people you're making friends with.
31:50
Like, that they're all in jail with you and and and it not a lot of Boy Scouts in prison.
31:55
Like, these are guys that that have done some bad stuff, some of them.
31:59
Some of them not so bad, but still still bad enough.
32:03
And he and he was like, "Especially at the prison I was at, which was, you know, the guys doing life and murder, things like that." I said, "Okay."
32:08
But, but you know, when I heard that, I was like, "Yeah, you know, it's the same idea.
32:13
Where you put your family makes a big difference.
32:16
And the family you have makes a big difference."
32:21
Yeah, and you point out in your memoir hard lessons from the hurt business that, uh you know, in your own case, when you went to the new high school, like that made a massive difference because it shifted your zip code, as you would put it, and you find yourself in a completely different environment.
32:41
And environment does matter, right?
32:43
Like, not everything is genetic.
32:46
And and who you're around and who's influencing you uh have a huge impact on you.
32:52
I and it's interesting to me like that just seems to be as one of the plainest and easiest to understand facts in the world.
33:02
>> Oh, it it is, but um a lot of things in the world fall under the simple but not easy category.
33:13
>> Yeah, I know, you're right.
33:15
That realization and many realizations about human nature fall into that category.
33:22
The problem is that when for you to accept the truth of something, you have to accept all sides of that truth. >> Mhm.
33:33
You you can't you can't simultaneously say that environment matters and then blame um either blame or ignore uh blame uh what we'll say legal or governmental structures or ignore what's happening on the ground and say that doesn't matter.
34:03
You know, uh like like to defund the police movement, which I think is ridiculous.
34:09
Anybody who's ever lived in a low You don't even have to live in a low-income area to know that like, "Yeah, cops are imperfect.
34:16
They don't catch anything."
34:19
I'm a strong believer that, you know, a gun in the hand is worth the entire police force than the phone going to do.
34:24
Big believer in all these ideas.
34:26
At the same time, I know that bad guys don't want to go to jail and the cops take them there.
34:31
So, if you have a police presence, you tend to decrease or disincentivize criminal activity. All right?
34:39
That that's just, you know, obvious idea to me.
34:45
But, when I when I look at my experience, you got to remember when I went to that new high school, I I didn't change my zip code.
34:56
I effectively changed it, but not actually changed it.
35:00
And and it was such a different new world.
35:03
I mean, I felt like an alien.
35:06
I mean, I and that, you know, it stuck with me my entire life.
35:10
But, it wasn't because of how people treated me or anything.
35:14
I mean, they're good people.
35:15
Best peop- Many of my Not many, all of my friends um not from the boxing world or are kind of all of my friends from from childhood are from high school here.
35:25
I don't I don't have any friends earlier than 14. It just didn't happen.
35:32
But, but seeing how people treated me and how they treated themselves and how their families interacted and just seeing how, you know, their their approach to life and their approach to their children compared to everything that I seen and knew that was that was just mind-shifting.
35:56
Like, I I didn't even I like I I knew these things probably existed is is a good way to put it, but until you see it and live it and you get to experience it and then, you know, whole parts of the city I'd never gone to but but but now I get to go to these places cuz my friends live there.
36:13
And my friends weren't rich.
36:14
It's not like these were like this was like a rich private school.
36:16
I mean, some of the kids were.
36:18
They could have easily gone to a private school if the parents wanted them to.
36:21
But, they were all like, you know, upper middle class, stable families, both parents in the house kind of deal.
36:28
I didn't know I didn't know anybody whose mom and dad lived with them until I got to high school.
36:31
That was like was like, "Whoa. It's mind-blowing.
36:34
Two people here in the house. It's great."
36:38
Uh but just being there easily altered I that's one of the one of the watershed moments in my life.
36:44
I got like four, maybe five of them.
36:46
But, that's one of those watershed moments in my life where I I I don't Not only can I not imagine what my life would be like had I not gone to that particular high school.
36:58
It's almost like You ever hear you know, it's like a cliché, "Nothing will ever be the same again." Right?
37:06
Uh I I don't know like I can't reconcile our old world kind of deal. Or or or I can.
37:15
Like, I know it exists that I went through it obviously growing up.
37:18
Uh but to me it's it's so weird that you know what it is?
37:21
I I found the words for this I'm talking.
37:24
It's a level jump in consciousness.
37:29
It's like when you see somebody um I worked at a homeless shelter once. I did security.
37:34
Really um great great I mean, no, not great job, but but great great stories I got out of that place.
37:42
Um and it's so I I can't imagine what it takes to get to that point because so many things have to go wrong in so many different ways over a long enough period of time that you don't have a place to live.
38:05
Like, a lot has to go It it's it's when when people talk about I'm talking about like the real I don't want to say the real homeless.
38:12
But, there's like But, there's like the phenomena in the in the Bay Area where people are like sleeping in their cars because the property value is too high and but the jobs are good, but they're not good enough to cover a house.
38:23
You know, I'm talking about like like the guys that got to go to a shelter.
38:26
And if you've ever been to a shelter, they're terrible places.
38:29
A lot of a lot of homeless guys are like, "I'd rather sleep in the street. It ain't worth it."
38:34
Um so, to get to that point where you got to do that, it I wasn't like making a bunch of money living in the security life, but it was definitely not at my level of consciousness or experience.
38:44
And then, when I I got to see that and experience it, I was I just looked and saw. I was like, "Wow.
38:47
This is just the you see a world a completely different way."
38:51
I got a cousin who who just got out of jail after 33 years.
38:58
That's third That was in 2023 he got out. Right?
39:06
So, that's that's like that's just like 91, I think he went in. That's a whole world.
39:12
Like, missing three decades of change.
39:15
And not just missing it, but but you live in a prison environment.
39:19
So, sometimes when I'm like hearing stuff he says or or I'm listening to him, I'm just like, "That's like you think a certain way and you'll probably never be able to unthink that. It's been too long." And life is is short.
39:31
I mean, it's long if you do something dumb and like get life in prison, but it's but it's short.
39:39
All of these I I bring these up just to show the comparison between thought levels and thought processes.
39:47
And that change in my school was a big thought level process. It made me mad.
39:54
It made me angry because um that's when I became really harsh.
39:57
I got I've always held parents to a high standard.
40:05
But that's probably where it started, I think.
40:10
is because I said, "Okay, I'm looking at all these other people, so I know it doesn't have to be that way."
40:14
I didn't know that before because that's all I had seen, everybody kind of like me.
40:17
But now I'm meeting all these other people and I'm seeing what what all these different advantages and they're not even really advantages, they're just like not me.
40:28
You know, it's more like I'm disadvantaged.
40:29
And I'm seeing all of this and I'm like, "It ain't got to be this way." Why is it this way?
40:34
Nobody had an answer for me.
40:38
And my mom really didn't like that I had She didn't say it as clearly as I will say it.
40:44
I'm I'm summing up a set of conversations and experiences.
40:47
She didn't really like that I was now in this crowd and seeing this new world.
40:56
It was It was a really big like point of contention.
40:58
So I mean, I didn't spend any time at home or I spent as little time at home as I possibly could.
41:07
Like stuff that people get excited about, I wasn't home for Christmas or Thanksgiving.
41:12
I went to my friend's house.
41:14
I said, "Well, I don't because it I just knew it could be better.
41:17
And once once I seen that I was like, "What am I doing here?"
41:25
Um And and I and I guess some people think that's kind of harsh.
41:32
But it's not like It's not like my house was full of love, right?
41:34
Because Well, you know, if a house full of love, we we got we got we got some great studies on this.
41:40
When I was When I was writing the Hard Lessons for the Hurt Business, just a side note story how I I got all this information in my head now.
41:47
It's It's a memoir, which means there's not a lot of research or studies in that, it's my life story.
41:51
I didn't know I was writing a memoir at first.
41:53
So the first draft is is really I mean, it's a it's a great piece of content.
41:58
I learned a lot, but it just isn't the type of book I was supposed to write.
42:04
But we know that So so there's like this poverty effect, the poorer you are growing up, the more likely you're going to be poor when you get older. All right?
42:15
That is almost completely nullified if both parents are in the house. Mhm.
42:21
So like love and relationships again prove to be this incredibly protective armor against the adverse outcomes in life because we we we see that in addiction.
42:32
If you don't deal with abuse and you have both parents in the house, your odds of becoming a drug addict drop to like single percent.
42:42
It is you know matter how poor you grow up. Okay?
42:44
But I say that to say it's not like my house was full of love, man.
42:50
Like like, you know, I I talk about this in the book and talked about it different ways.
42:56
Uh my mom was a I mean, abusive.
42:59
She didn't think it was abusive, but but it was.
43:02
I mean, between the injury between the physical injuries and and my mom always, you know, cussed me out.
43:07
I didn't realize even at the time. That's how crazy it is.
43:11
Until you get around people who don't do that, you think it's normal.
43:15
And I'm like, "Yo, my mom They don't cuss at their kids.
43:17
They don't even really yell at their kids." It's crazy.
43:21
Uh And and my dad wasn't around.
43:26
Uh and then there's the whole environment in general that infects everybody.
43:32
Like my mom and sister, like they'd have full blown fights.
43:33
And we had like the police multiple times called.
43:37
So this is the type of environment I'm deciding to not stay in when I'm when I'm always spending my time in this new high school and this new world.
43:43
And and that environment easily changed my life, man.
43:48
Like like like and it really I I can't imagine without it having done that.
43:56
And you mentioned other watershed moments and I have to uh guess that you recognize those at retrospectively.
44:06
In other words, you Do you probably didn't and correct me if I'm wrong.
44:09
Uh did did you have a moment where you were like, "Holy this is like a whole new thing for me."
44:18
Or did did it did the watershed moment happen and then later you kind of look back and thought "Oh, I see what I see what happened there." Yeah.
44:30
Yeah, I mean, like look, I almost said, you know, when my son was born.
44:34
That's like the only one where I was like, "Oh, wow."
44:35
But but that's more of me knowing that things are going to be different.
44:40
So it's an expectation, but I still have no I wasn't aware of the ways that I changed in the first 6 months he was here.
44:46
So I don't know what's going to happen 6 years or or or or 20 down the line.
44:50
I do know I'll change and everything I do has been changed because he exists now.
44:54
But on the other ones that are are not so clear and obvious the way I describe going to high school, that high school, and then this will apply to the other ones.
45:07
It's like here's your your path, you're going in a line.
45:09
And that line is the way you're supposed to go on if you keep doing what you're doing.
45:15
And then you take a you change course by a degree or two.
45:21
And at first there's not much of a difference, you don't realize it.
45:22
It's only after a a long enough time that you're you're able to go, "Wow, not only am I not on that line of that that path, I'm all the way over here."
45:31
And that is taking me through different events that I would have never done.
45:36
And those events have exposed and opened things in my life and and why I am now as a direct result of that little change that didn't seem significant at the time.
45:48
So like there's where I where I went to school.
45:52
Boxing, that's a huge like like I had no clue.
45:57
I mean, like I certainly hoped I'd okay.
46:01
But in terms of the other kind of peripheral benefits and the people it's exposed me to and the life it's built for me and the opportunities it's brought for me outside of boxing no idea that it would happen.
46:12
Couldn't imagine my life right now.
46:15
But like like my book is called Boxing and the Art of Life.
46:21
Uh who would ever thought that? Right?
46:24
That's That's one of those things.
46:27
Um meeting my wife, no big big deal big difference maker and getting sober.
46:37
Uh getting sober, you you want to talk about, you know, whenever I talk about getting sober, I I say it like this cuz now it'll be 12 years this December. Congrats. Uh thank you.
46:48
Easily the best thing I've ever done for myself. Like like by far.
46:57
But I am I go, "Look, there's a whole set of events on the edge still drinking timeline that I didn't have to deal with."
47:06
And and many if not all of those events are negative and destructive, not just to me, but to other people in my life.
47:16
This is one of the reasons why I say my wife is the other one because I met her and I just happened to meet her when I was, you know, wrestling with the tail end of drinking.
47:27
But what I was doing, I didn't just, you know, click it off cuz very rarely does that happen.
47:30
I was like, "Oh, let me do 5 days sober, 2 days or I'll just get blessed out of my mind."
47:36
But it never is just 2 days.
47:39
On our our first few days, they were all those days where I wasn't drinking.
47:42
So she's never even seen me drunk.
47:47
And because of that, one of the things that I said to myself when I was like, "I'm going to get sober."
47:53
I said, "Look, you know, Ed is a really nice girl." Like she was.
47:57
I mean, or or is, still is.
47:59
She's a really nice be around somebody like this.
48:02
And I don't really want to give her up.
48:04
So what am I going to do?
48:07
Well, I guess I got to give up booze.
48:09
That was That was one of the three other reasons that I I had to get sober.
48:16
Uh but she also really just like because it's she's never been like, "All right, we got to get you to a meeting."
48:20
because I never was never drinking around her.
48:24
But what she did do is create this environment where I could just be myself. Mhm.
48:28
And like I tell her all the time, the best part about being with you is, you know, to this day, is that I just get to be myself.
48:36
Uh and and you're fun with that.
48:40
Because you're fun with that, I've never felt any compulsion to like drink to fit in.
48:45
It's always the supportive environment.
48:47
All the things she likes to do.
48:49
It's not like we she likes to go out to bars or or always drinks at events or anything like that, you know.
48:56
Like you know, our favorite activity Not much has changed since having a kid.
49:00
That's how how tame The only thing that's really changed, we can't we can't uh travel as much.
49:12
Uh and we can't travel together as much.
49:14
Like this October coming up will be our first trip across the ocean together.
49:17
Uh we went to Canada for a birthday a year ago.
49:23
But yeah, we we used to do all the time because of what she does.
49:26
It's not like Uh and she's involved in travel.
49:28
She plans a lot of high end trips for people.
49:33
She's very good at her job, which is how we get a lot of invites to places um or reasons to go places or got them but with the baby there and then now she's had to cut back.
49:43
But now we both don't go.
49:46
Now as he gets older we'll probably start both go both start going again but but flying with with with kids I uh him it'll probably be better this time because now he's got like focus and can like look at stuff for an hour but in flying we flew down to Sarasota of where his sister lives in Florida a few times and even on flight to uh well it's right outside of Quebec City at some place called Chambly one that's where we went for her birthday.
50:12
Uh even those flights just just not fun.
50:17
And I don't care about kids yelling.
50:19
Whatever that's what kids do they cry they yell.
50:21
If you can't handle it put some headphones on or something. Uh it's more about me.
50:26
He needs to be constantly entertained.
50:29
And you know I didn't realize before how relaxing flying was until it was no longer relaxing.
50:34
And then I was like man you always need something.
50:38
It is like like can't you just sit here like go to sleep?
50:43
No he's not that much tired.
50:45
But but now he can like talk and explain when things go wrong.
50:48
He can like watch things.
50:51
We we've been doing this thing where we um each year just seeing how long he would last on the Muppet Christmas Carol.
50:58
Last Christmas it was 15 minutes.
51:03
Now though man this guy has watched Bluey for like they do these Bluey loops and it's a good cartoon.
51:08
Sit and watch it for an hour and a half.
51:11
Now the good news is that when I say it's time to turn it off as long as he gets to press the button he's pretty good about it.
51:19
He he tries to negotiate back like no I got to set my timer first.
51:22
I'm like no no no it's time to go now and uh and then I explain why go through it.
51:30
But but yeah it's um but but the whole point of all that me bringing that up is that not much has changed.
51:36
That's how like and that's fine because I love like the fact that she's always like let's go for a walk or let's go to a museum.
51:44
We had a membership to the botanical gardens before he showed up.
51:49
Uh now we use it all the time because it's a great little place to go.
51:52
He walks and plays and it's a good time and it it's just fun.
51:59
And it'll be even more fun when he's like like right now he enjoys the museum because it's just a place with new things.
52:05
But in terms of like oh let me learn stuff and read stuff that'll be even more fun.
52:12
But but but all that I have to say this is the type of person I ended up with where like not much changes in terms of social life after kid.
52:21
Same you know fun shows we watch like we watch he I don't know if you know about All Creatures Great and Small?
52:28
It's a man I love that show.
52:28
I love Masterpiece Theater in general. Yeah.
52:35
>> She she's the one that got me into Downton Abbey.
52:36
Downton Abbey. Like all of these these these shows um and and that's the type of content we consume and the activities we do and you don't realize how great it is when you can when when you when you've been so performative
52:52
which is how I would describe how I was dating before kind of performative and then I meet somebody right in the transition of my life and it's like oh this is the person you need to like you can make a choice you can go back to what you've been doing. How good has
53:06
How good has that been working out for you?
53:08
Uh or you can you know follow along with what the universe has has laid in front of you and take a hint. And I did. I'm I'm extremely happy.
53:18
Like just just really get happy and that makes a big difference.
53:25
So what you know you you did not have an easy road right?
53:30
And your memoir makes that very clear.
53:32
What uh can somebody who didn't have like a rough time of it right?
53:39
And didn't have these you know watershed moments that that you saw retrospectively made a huge difference in your life when they read your book give me advice for them right?
53:56
Like my guess is is that listen everybody no matter where they are in society right?
54:05
Everybody has struggles and everybody has like doubts about themselves and or you know just a whole host of things.
54:14
Can can can people learn truly learn by the experience of others or is it something that they've got to go through themselves?
54:27
Okay so that's a that's a great question.
54:29
I'm a big fan of you know you don't need to learn everything the hard way.
54:35
Because if you if you learn everything the hard way you you might not survive long enough to reap the benefits of the lesson.
54:45
With that said there are some things that hurt that you can only learn the hard way.
54:57
Um where the where the value of the lesson does not exceed the cost of receiving it. Those are important.
55:05
But if if I was going to tell somebody you know who who did not go through my life you know what what can they learn from me? What can they get?
55:18
I would like to think that if someone looks at my life they go well you know what this guy he has done something and look at the starting block that he had. What is my excuse? Mm.
55:38
What is so okay you know things are a little bad right now.
55:42
It's a little little down maybe I got laid off my job. Okay.
55:48
But I can still get a job and I've got all this support system and look because I wasn't raised in the hood I've got a good relationship with money and I saved.
55:56
So I'm going to be okay for a minute.
55:59
I got a buddy who lost his job about two years ago.
56:02
Took him took him about 18 months to find another job.
56:08
And he had just had his kid and had just bought a house. Wow.
56:13
But let me tell you because he comes from he's one of those friends I made in high school.
56:18
He had a bunch of money saved.
56:21
His he was he had no debt because his parents made sure he went to school the right way. They they saved for him.
56:29
Both of his parents are alive and they were at home with the baby. And and he had skills.
56:35
He just had to find the right opportunity that wouldn't force him to leave.
56:40
Or or by leave I mean move relocate after he had just got a house or something like that.
56:45
It just took a little time but he figured it out he got it done.
56:50
And like I would like to think man because you because look when your friends are going through something like that you don't go and say like look man you saw how I grew up yeah I like you can't say something like that.
57:04
Uh you definitely shouldn't.
57:07
But what you can do instead you know you can just show up and be there for them and and talk and then they remember that it could be worse.
57:17
But since I'm not talking everybody reads a book or around them you know that that's what I think a person can take from a book like really take from it is a perspective.
57:29
Not just a perspective on their life but kind of a road map for how the thinking or how my thinking process goes and I can't speak for everyone that's that's moved out of a or or changed or moved their situation changed it but uh kind of a road map for the thought processes that go into someone who makes a change like that.
57:55
I think there's a lot there's a lot of value in stories.
57:59
Which which you know on on a related note back to how we wrote the book or how I wrote the book you know the weirdness uh how I wrote the book is that I didn't know I was writing a memoir like I said.
58:16
And when you write a memoir what you're really doing is you're you're telling a story.
58:20
You're writing a story you're writing about your life as a story.
58:26
And stories do so much better in my opinion at relaying values.
58:33
Because I can tell you all the research can tell you what you should do.
58:37
It is like uh-huh uh-huh but if we watch a character do that whether that character is fictional or not then we are really transmitting the um the the principle in action. The lived value.
58:57
So that's that's really the cool part you know and there's so much feedback I've gotten from early readers on it.
59:04
Is or I've gotten two pieces of feedback which is really cool.
59:06
One they're like oh man this is really well written. I'm like thank you.
59:10
I've been been working on this writing thing for like you know 10 to 12 years to this point and and getting better each time cuz some of my stuff is was bad.
59:19
Uh but the other thing I I I hear though is it's engaging. It's a good story.
59:26
It's a good so it's a good story.
59:28
One guy said you know I couldn't make this up as a script. I'm like, okay. That's a good sign.
59:40
Cuz you know what What do they say, right? What What do they say?
59:41
What Mark Twain says, the difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense.
59:48
Now, fortunately, there's there's been a there's a good ending and it's it's mostly consistent, but but people don't I get the question so many times.
59:59
For example, like, you know, boxing guy that does physics, how does that work?
1:00:03
And I'm like, well, I'll tell you how it works.
1:00:05
You learn one and you learn the other and then it's not like I But but but when they found out it was a late start, they're like, okay.
1:00:11
So, it's not even like you were groomed to bring in to do this.
1:00:15
Like, not only was I not groomed to do it, but you're not going to believe what I did in high school.
1:00:18
I didn't really graduate, you know, kind of deal.
1:00:23
So, so there are all these There's a lesson here.
1:00:25
There's a lot of lessons and you get to see them live and you go, you know, oddly enough when when they're when they're um editing and they're not really editing at this point.
1:00:37
What they're doing is going line by line to proofread, but they're also fact-checking, which I didn't realize, but but they fact-check like everything that they can fact-check in the in the memoir, which which you know, makes you feel good.
1:00:53
It's like, hey, this is This is like also a real story, like real names, people who Someone Some people can verify different angles.
1:01:03
It's a good It's a good time.
1:01:04
>> The process of writing it, did did it Did you get any new insights that are going to influence what you do going forward?
1:01:16
In other words, so before you wrote the book, you're doing things, you're doing really well.
1:01:21
You're doing a lot of stuff that is really working for you.
1:01:24
Did did writing the book make you think, oh man, I okay, now I'm going to change X, Y, and Z or or no?
1:01:38
Um okay, so I I guess I'll answer that in two ways.
1:01:42
One, in terms of activities to do in the future. Mhm.
1:01:46
I While this was not a pure fiction book, it was a story.
1:01:53
And I've always wanted to write fiction and this has been a an incredibly an incredible confidence booster for me moving into fiction.
1:02:01
So, I'm going to work on fiction.
1:02:04
It's really given me a lot of faith in myself.
1:02:08
In terms of um maybe an insight into me that will change how I do things moving forward.
1:02:21
Maybe not forward, but you know, in the epilogue, I write about what I learned about my dad because I didn't I didn't have, you know, my dad wasn't really around.
1:02:37
My mom used to get mad that I would always criticize her, but he was the one not around.
1:02:41
And I would say, look, man, I don't I don't have any memories of him to be angry about.
1:02:48
Got a lot of you, though.
1:02:52
And then my son was born and and for kind of a timeline reference, uh he was born November 28th, 2022.
1:03:01
I signed the book deal February 2023.
1:03:04
So, a 3-month period in between.
1:03:08
But I was already working on my proposal and everything in the in the interim.
1:03:13
And I remember like holding him one night.
1:03:17
He's crying all newborn or infant at this point, too.
1:03:22
And I remember thinking, I was like, man, this is really sucks.
1:03:24
Like, this is really miserable. Like, you want to sleep. I'm tired.
1:03:28
I need to sleep, but I can't sleep.
1:03:31
Um but but I would rather be no place else because I love you. You're my kid. You're my son.
1:03:41
And then I started thinking about my dad and I was like, wow, how I What is wrong with a person? Because I knew my dad. He just wasn't around.
1:03:47
He moved over to Philadelphia and I'm in Pittsburgh.
1:03:52
So, he spent his whole life over in Philadelphia.
1:03:55
He'd come over like once, maybe twice a year.
1:03:59
We'd see him for like an hour or two when he was here.
1:04:00
But uh So, I couldn't understand why how how a man could like move so far away intentionally from his kids.
1:04:13
And it really bothered me.
1:04:17
Um because like I understand people not staying together.
1:04:20
I would I don't blame them.
1:04:22
I wouldn't stay with my mom, either.
1:04:24
Uh but to leave and not be part of our lives, that I remember.
1:04:30
And then I thought more about it and I was just like, yeah, my mom would date these guys that would beat on us and really hurt us and hurt your daughter really bad.
1:04:40
And you you know, you didn't do anything about it or rescue us.
1:04:42
So, either you didn't know and that means you were so disinterested in our lives that you couldn't tell when something was wrong or something went on or you didn't care. Got even angrier.
1:04:56
Um and then I had lunch with my uncle, his brother.
1:04:58
My dad died when I was 18.
1:05:01
It's been a little while.
1:05:02
And I had lunch with his with his brother, my uncle.
1:05:05
And he told me that when they were younger, he was like four when his mom died in the war and his dad just deserted, go start a new family.
1:05:14
No interaction whatsoever.
1:05:20
And I was like And in that I'm always looking for like you got to give me something.
1:05:24
I I err on the side of understanding and forgiveness.
1:05:26
You got to give me something to grapple on to, though.
1:05:31
You know, it So, I'm not just forgiving anybody and everybody.
1:05:36
some people I mean, you If you wrong me, I have to, but some things, you know, we got to be a big boy.
1:05:43
So, when I learned that, I was like, oh, wow, okay.
1:05:47
So, my dad probably saw the little bit of help and support he had and all he gave in my life as a dramatic upgrade on what he experienced.
1:05:58
That does not excuse it, but it it it moves the action from neglect to how What's the word I want?
1:06:11
It's just kind of continuing on autopilot.
1:06:13
Maybe And And I really tried harder.
1:06:20
And then I always remember it could be worse because even though What's What's Sometimes can weaken you and then allow you to deal with a lot of bad stuff, but at this point, you know, I'm an adult and I got my own kid raised and and he's been dead for at this point now, 20 years.
1:06:37
I'm like, yeah, you know, it could have been a lot worse.
1:06:41
He could have been around and been abusive.
1:06:44
He could have been completely absent, like never interacted whatsoever.
1:06:51
I know a lot of kids who do who were in that exact situation.
1:06:55
So, uh I'd say it has it it it's helped me continue to work on forgiveness.
1:07:03
It's like everything in in life.
1:07:05
Every challenge is an opportunity for you to improve yourself in some way or the other if you want to meet that challenge and not be consumed.
1:07:16
Because I Because I was walking around with this It was like this low-level combination of like sadness and anger and and I didn't know what I was going to do.
1:07:30
And I had to find a way to deal with it and and having that lunch with my uncle, which was not like like I just wanted to see my uncle.
1:07:36
That's That's all I wanted.
1:07:39
Um and I asked him different questions and stuff and that had That really helped me really helped me hearing that because it gave me something to hold on to cuz no longer was like this this neglect.
1:07:49
I mean, it still was neglect, but I could find a way to understand it, find a way to make sense of it.
1:07:59
Do you think you know, one of the things that I believe pretty passionately is whoever angers me controls me?
1:08:08
And and it doesn't mean I don't get angry. I do.
1:08:14
But the way I try to think about it is like who Who am I doing more damage to here?
1:08:22
Myself because I'm letting that anger control me or the object of my anger.
1:08:29
And in almost every time I look at that, it's I'm doing much more damage to myself. >> Way more.
1:08:35
You know, I I tell I get a lot of kickback.
1:08:37
Not a lot, but I get some.
1:08:40
I get enough when I tell people that they have to work on forgiveness. It's really important.
1:08:47
And the kickback I always talk You know, I get like, oh, no, that's weak.
1:08:49
You know, people got to pay.
1:08:50
And I'm like, first off, I'm not telling you to replace justice with forgiveness.
1:08:54
I'm a firm believer in justice.
1:08:56
You know, you got to get some people off the street.
1:09:01
But the damage they do to you, them getting them off the street, uh that's not going to help.
1:09:07
Like that that that won't fix the problem.
1:09:09
And I always say, look, if you believe that, you haven't held a grudge against someone who died yet.
1:09:17
Because when they die, one, you really like you're not going to feel better. People think they will. You don't.
1:09:21
It It It Not only does the research show this, but there's a quite a bit of anecdotal stories.
1:09:29
It does not make you feel better, and depending on how the person is gone, it can make you feel worse.
1:09:38
So, you got to figure out a way to deal with all the the damage that you've got and you're walking around from an emotional standpoint, from a psychological standpoint.
1:09:46
And no amount of physical justice can repair that.
1:09:53
So, you need to do something, and forgiveness, I've found, is the only way forward with that.
1:09:58
Because otherwise, like you said, you're going to be controlled by a ghost, a part of something you can't do anything about, you can't interact with.
1:10:07
They win from beyond the grave. Yep.
1:10:14
And and I I agree about forgiveness, but I often find that sometimes, with a lot of people I I know and love, uh the hardest person to forgive, often times, is yourself.
1:10:28
Oh, ain't that the truth?
1:10:30
How do you deal with that?
1:10:30
You know, it's funny, man.
1:10:33
I I I wrote a section about that, too, in the in the epilogue and stuff.
1:10:36
Um So, so like the the hardest person to forgive is yourself because you never get a chance to step away from you.
1:10:49
And and this is this is really important here because when you when you're when you're forgiving someone else on an event, you can find a way to get yourself there.
1:10:58
And you get to look at them from a distance, and however you do that, the point is that you can look at them, and you can go you can create a narrative that works for you to help you get there.
1:11:11
Whether it's true or not is is not really relevant.
1:11:18
But but but usually, to make it work, it it has to be mostly true, right?
1:11:23
But with yourself, you never realize you you never think, "Okay, I thought this way then and only knew that then, and I did the best I could with the information I had and the way I thought at the moment."
1:11:38
All you see is a continuum.
1:11:38
You see that you're still that same person.
1:11:44
And so, you go, "I must I know better now."
1:11:48
And somehow you you retroactively apply that to an action you you took or didn't take then, but that's not true.
1:11:52
And you only do that because you never you never step aside and walk away from your body, right?
1:11:59
Yeah, and then you you're an old talk.
1:12:03
So, you have to remember, you know, what what what's helped me a lot because I walked around racked with guilt for a long time after I got sober.
1:12:12
It was it was the type of guilt you couldn't experience until you got to look at your actions and behaviors under the influence.
1:12:20
And, you know, first first I tried remembering that this was me drinking, and alcohol makes you act and behave a different way than you would otherwise.
1:12:29
I don't buy that whole concept that that a sober that a drunk mind speaks sober heart, you know?
1:12:36
It's not it's scientifically not true.
1:12:39
We know what alcohol does to a person's ability to regulate, a person's ability to read people, to remember the body language they're sending out, to make decisions.
1:12:49
It It's It's It's poison any other way.
1:12:52
I mean, we understand this with like everything.
1:12:56
It's That's why vehicular like driving under the influence is is not a modifier, typically.
1:13:05
Um I don't want to be Don't don't quote me on this if I'm if I'm incorrect, but but typically, uh driving under the influence does not modify vehicular homicide.
1:13:14
You know, it's either kind of one or the other.
1:13:19
You know, if you drive your car over somebody intentionally, you know, that's the thing, but you're typically not a drunk when you do that.
1:13:26
Which is why they're two different kind of kind of things in most cases.
1:13:32
That worked for a little while, though, seeing that it was like me drinking.
1:13:34
But because of the type of person I am, and I think a lot of people struggle with this, they tend to be the same way.
1:13:41
Uh I go, "Okay, but I chose to drink."
1:13:47
Even And I'm like, "What do you mean?
1:13:49
Like you know, now I'm back to square one. I did choose to drink."
1:13:54
And so, you got to keep digging, and you go, you know, "Well, why were you drinking?
1:13:57
What were you able to accomplish?" And and and that helps.
1:14:02
But what ultimately helped the most, and this is what I recommend to everyone struggling with guilt kind of in general through this specific principle, what helped the most was me doing something to undo anything that I had done. Mhm.
1:14:19
And you can't do you like you you can't turn back the clock, can't change the past, can't do that.
1:14:26
What you can do is try to make the future better and be responsible for your your actions under the influence.
1:14:33
So, like when I was writing sober letters to my drunk self, uh while I was writing them, and I must have wrote I think like five people who I still was able to contact, and I was like, you know, "I'm sorry I treated you you this way or did this this way.
1:14:49
I, you know, I was drinking heavily, and I'm This is not an excuse.
1:14:52
This is me owning my my actions.
1:14:56
Um You know, like three of them were like, "Fuck off."
1:15:01
One person was like, "Cool, but he ain't cool."
1:15:03
And the other person, you know, was like, "I get it."
1:15:08
Well, well, more than that.
1:15:08
You know, like two or three that were like, "I get and understand you were dealing with stuff and all that."
1:15:14
Uh That was me owning my responsibility, and then writing the book was me trying to make the world a better place from what I experienced.
1:15:21
And, you know, you you you can't think your way through this thing.
1:15:27
You got to act your way through it.
1:15:27
And through actions, that's the only way you can convince yourself that you are not the same person.
1:15:32
Trying to convince yourself the same person you're you're not the same person all you did was let time pass, that doesn't work.
1:15:42
Trying to convince yourself you're a different person and you do different things now, it's a big deal.
1:15:48
It's one of the reasons why I stopped drinking and why sobriety helps as well because although I can only experience the guilt under sobriety, it would mean nothing if I was still drinking. Like like nothing.
1:16:01
Uh me writing the book, that's like that's me trying to help someone deal with the same issue and do what I can.
1:16:09
Me writing those people, that's me recognizing that I had an issue and I affected them negatively.
1:16:16
And and I felt so bad about it that I couldn't let it go after 5 years.
1:16:23
So, what I'm writing you is to let you know that I'm that aware of what I've done.
1:16:31
You don't have I'm you know, I'm not asking for your forgiveness.
1:16:32
I'm owning my responsibility, and then, you know, letting it go.
1:16:37
So, so, you know, all that to say, if you're having trouble forgiving yourself, you need to act in a different way, and you need to make a personal amends, and the only way to make a personal amends is to live a different life than or to take actions that that signal to you to the signals to yourself that you're not the same person.
1:16:58
Yeah, I'm a huge believer in Young's uh statement that uh you are not what you say you will do, you are what you do.
1:17:10
And you've just underlined that for me.
1:17:12
It's not you know, intentions are great, right?
1:17:17
And some of them are wonderful, etc.
1:17:20
, but if you take no action against that intention, it's a daydream.
1:17:28
It It doesn't affect any doesn't affect you.
1:17:31
It doesn't affect anyone in your life.
1:17:34
And you got to, you know, it's a cliché, but it's a cliché because it's true.
1:17:40
You You've got to walk the walk.
1:17:44
And there's just no way getting around that, right?
1:17:46
Like, "Oh, I'm going to do this this and this and this and this."
1:17:51
And you can yap yap yap yap yap.
1:17:51
And if you don't take any action against what you're yapping about, you're just a yapper and an annoyance in my opinion.
1:18:00
It's It's It's actions do a lot.
1:18:07
They that's like the only I don't know what you're thinking.
1:18:11
I don't know what anyone is thinking.
1:18:14
I only know what they're doing. >> Yep.
1:18:18
And and if they repeatedly do something, that builds my thought of them.
1:18:23
That builds my opinion of them.
1:18:29
So, you can do the same thing for yourself, you know?
1:18:30
This is You know, this is one of the reasons why I'm I'm so big, and I think a lot of people are big on this.
1:18:35
This is not an original idea by any means.
1:18:37
That how you talk to yourself matters because >> incredible.
1:18:43
>> keep saying negative things about yourself, you're going to you're going to believe them.
1:18:48
Well, why else wouldn't you? Right. It's really simple.
1:18:52
That's why, you know, like if you study propaganda, the rule number one is repetition, repetition, repetition. Right? >> Right.
1:19:02
And if you can't see through your self-talk, you're you're you're you're basically using your own propaganda, and guess what?
1:19:13
That's what you're going to end up believing.
1:19:14
Whether it's true or false or just crazy, if you just keep saying the the thing over and over and over again. That's what you become.
1:19:25
And and the thoughts turn into actions and the actions are what really cements it, right? >> Yep.
1:19:33
>> Like the minute that thought becomes an action and that action becomes a habit, ooh.
1:19:40
Like if it's going in the right direction, you're going to have a pretty good life, probably.
1:19:43
If it's going People don't understand that compounding works both ways. Haha, yeah.
1:19:48
You you can positively compound things and you can negatively compound things.
1:19:57
Which is, man, this rule of compounding in terms of actions, positive or negative, it's it applies it the corollaries of it apply in other areas, too.
1:20:09
It's like it's like the people you keep you you keep around you.
1:20:15
It's a lot easier to keep good people around you if you keep good people around you.
1:20:18
And this is simplistic for language reasons, good and bad, um but it's like, you know, if you if you have one bad friend, the chances of you being introduced to somebody else bad increases and and now you now you know, what's that?
1:20:34
The average of five people.
1:20:35
Well, now you got another person to lower the average.
1:20:37
But and you're only going to you're going to become what you're around.
1:20:41
It's like the environment.
1:20:42
All of these things compound.
1:20:44
The actions you take compound.
1:20:46
The environment you live in. Uh that compounds.
1:20:48
And by environment, I mean in this case the the people who make up that environment.
1:20:53
But yeah, it's um once you accept, you know, like we were saying, simple but not easy to accept. This is so simple.
1:21:06
Because that that really leaves you with only a few options.
1:21:08
Some of you want to do some Some of you don't want to have a a uh low quality of life.
1:21:15
Option one, you just stop spending time with people.
1:21:18
But that's not really the best one.
1:21:19
It's certainly preferable to spend the time around people who will you know, get you get you jammed up and leave you with issues or or betrayal or trust trust issues. That is preferable. No time around people.
1:21:34
Or you only become selective in who you hang out with.
1:21:38
But that forces you to be judgmental.
1:21:40
And nobody want People don't want to do that.
1:21:42
They don't They don't want to be seen as judgmental.
1:21:43
Everybody wants to be tolerant.
1:21:45
Like, no, man, some of these people No, they They're not so bad they need to be in jail, but they're not really on the frequency I'm trying to exist on.
1:21:53
So, I might have to cut them out.
1:21:57
And that is a very simple rule, select it, that if you can just be discerning enough to not end up around around detrimental destructive influences, your life is guaranteed or almost guaranteed to not get worse.
1:22:19
Not necessarily get better, but it won't get worse.
1:22:25
And notice what you did there, Ed.
1:22:28
Um You you you changed the word.
1:22:32
Some Like judgmental is one thing, but discerning, that's a very different thing. Right?
1:22:39
And so, if you're trying to get people to understand this, using the word discerning, like that opens up the whole Oh, I you I'm not I'm not like judging.
1:22:50
I'm not sitting and saying you're not, you know, you're bad and blah blah blah.
1:22:57
I'm just being discerning and for my own life, that's not going to work for me.
1:23:03
And that's that's really interesting to me because we Labels, you know, labels are useful, but they can also be incredibly destructive, right?
1:23:11
Because if you if you live your life through labels, it like you're not thinking about things.
1:23:19
You're Once you've labeled it, you stop thinking about it.
1:23:24
And >> Yeah, and then And so, to become discerning is going to open up that message to a ton more people. Yeah? Much more so.
1:23:34
You know, yeah, word words matter.
1:23:37
They matter so much that look, the only way I know again what's in your head or anyone else's head are the actions you take.
1:23:51
And speaking is an action. Okay?
1:23:57
But the flip side of that is the only way I can get something to your head is with an action.
1:24:05
And speaking is an action.
1:24:08
If you want to change how a person or culture speaks, make certain words against the rules to say, change the meanings of words, use new words that don't mean much, now they have a meaning.
1:24:29
And it is so people don't understand why uh the the being forced to use certain words or not use certain words in our society now in America is such a big deal.
1:24:44
You get a lot of pushback about this people and who who are with the pronouns.
1:24:48
Like here Every signature now has a pronoun.
1:24:53
We don't understand how And look, this is, you know, I got to be clear here because I I you know, your audience is intelligent, but I got to you know, cover my ass.
1:25:04
Look, whatever whatever you want to be is what you want to be, man.
1:25:06
I I really don't care as long as it doesn't affect me and my child.
1:25:10
When it affects my child, then I then I have to care and that's a different discussion, right?
1:25:16
But until then, you do you, I do me, everybody's happy.
1:25:19
We can even sit down and break bread together.
1:25:20
My kid won't be there, right?
1:25:22
Um then I But the idea like we can now redefine everything from what a proper pronoun it is for a person that you because no language you can choose the pronoun.
1:25:38
That's kind of like the idea of language.
1:25:40
We have to collectively agree this word means this, otherwise it's useless to transmit a message, all right?
1:25:48
Or the we're we're at a point where people, you know, don't want to define clearly what a man or woman is.
1:25:57
Again, whatever you want to be is what you want to be, but we have definitions of words to represent ideas or observations and go, this is what we're looking at. This is what this means. This is a standardized. But it's not just there.
1:26:11
I've always thought it was a hilarious slide of word that we're no longer colored people, we're people of color.
1:26:24
And you know, never never mind the the hilarity here that that's a term for diversity, but if when we make it Okay, you're either white or person of color, we've eliminated all of the different ways you could be of color with this.
1:26:40
These This is important because this is me thinking about how these words affect I think. I don't know.
1:26:49
But if you just keep hammering it home, keep hammering it home, you know what you see? You start seeing people.
1:26:56
You see this in the in the polls of the the younger the generation, the less likely they are to support the idea of free speech. That's a big deal.
1:27:07
Because that means that they've bought into the the application of it so well, the action, that now they think that there is some good here and now that's a thought.
1:27:23
Even though we we have all the history books in the world to show us what happens when people can't, you know, uh express themselves freely. Do I think it's perfect?
1:27:31
Do I think there are some negatives to it? Absolutely.
1:27:33
But, you know, uh this is one of those things where you kind of have to accept a little bad to avoid a much greater one.
1:27:43
But these are just my opinions.
1:27:43
The main point The main point I'm bringing up here that we were talking about is that the the ideas that come out of your mouth in the form of words, they put ideas in someone else's head and vice versa.
1:27:57
And you need to be able to control that uh in terms or not control, be intentional with it.
1:28:07
And if you don't have the intentionality with it, uh and the awareness of how one word, even though it means the exact same thing as the other word, is uh or close enough to be indistinguishable to to common colloquial speech, you can make your life a lot of harder than it has to be.
1:28:28
So much more difficult uh than it has to be.
1:28:31
Judgment versus discernment, all right?
1:28:35
That That's a That's a big And and and the other thing that you're bringing up, which I think is very true, is that if if your argument is so weak or your belief is so weak that your go-to strategy is to try to shut down any conversation that conflicts with your belief, you should have the self-awareness to understand that maybe I better look at this belief.
1:29:08
There's a great quip from Jed McKenna, which goes, you know, if you're having a little tea party with Lord Lion and Lady Gazelle and somebody comes along who doesn't buy your fantasy narrative.
1:29:21
It isn't because they're mean, it's because you have a very fragile belief system.
1:29:31
Yeah, like it's it that It's a great point. That's funny.
1:29:34
That's that's a really funny way to put that.
1:29:38
But you know, I what we and and I mean I guess society as a whole, but like you know, some of the kickback I've I've received and this is in my personal life, too.
1:29:52
is I as we define what a racist is what racism and prejudice is we cannot make that race specific.
1:30:02
Um that that in and of itself is in the most ironic way possible that no one seems to get when they do this is racist.
1:30:15
Uh and I have I have written something to say, right?
1:30:18
So when you have organizations that are or events that are only for one race and just because it's not white it's okay.
1:30:31
You know, I ask yourself if you flip this Exactly.
1:30:36
But the big the big news I think that broke today or yesterday was that Uber is offering uh passengers or women passengers, female passengers to select a female driver.
1:30:50
And I'm like okay, my my first thought was they're probably not going to, but they should and this is how I would criticize this, they should offer men the same option. Mhm. But they won't do that.
1:31:05
And I had this argument with my wife once because there was this they call them familiarization trips, fans.
1:31:12
There was this fan that was for uh agents the agents of color, right?
1:31:19
Um so they could experience other things and I guess it came up because the way this came up to me is because there were people in the forum that were like to call my racist and I I agreed with them.
1:31:32
I thought well, you can't you you can't exclude someone based on one trait just because they're the minority trait, you know, however you're going to call it or or or the flavor of week depending on our generation.
1:31:49
It's still the same thing and what I worry about is that you know, you can only attack if this is me a black guy who is able to con like rationally explain this that any any exclusion or preference because of race is an is racist is by definition doesn't matter what the race is, that's just what it is, you know, um if you make it based on race, that's what it becomes.
1:32:21
If I'm able to sit here and explain that rationally and it would benefit me to do so to to to to turn a blind eye to it and just allow myself if I was a white guy would make me angry.
1:32:36
It's it's how long does it take before you make people angry enough to make more say white people angry enough to where you end up with a new problem, you end up with people who are not necessarily any type of prejudicial or racist at all, but now they have now they have actively have to become one of for no other reason than they feel like they are under some attack or exclusion.
1:33:06
You you you swing the pendulum back the other way.
1:33:08
There was a point where we needed the NAACP, right? Why?
1:33:10
Then okay, but because there was active exclusion and and discrimination.
1:33:15
Imagine if we had the the white NAACP, you know, version of that I I can't work out the acronym.
1:33:23
People would lose their minds.
1:33:26
But would they be would they and then how would I argue back?
1:33:31
I go, oh yeah, all right, well, you got that, we got that.
1:33:33
Well, that's segregation and that's not okay.
1:33:35
It's a it's a weird place and it's just the words that people use.
1:33:40
Oh, Caucasian, white, there but there's no safe word cuz the idea is to the same in all white space or in all female space or well, all male space in this case keeping with the who would not be able to to to to do these things.
1:33:58
And that equal application that we if we can't get to that point as a country, well, we kind of have to go this where the forgiveness thing comes in bringing all conversation I kind of have to go, look man, we messed up.
1:34:09
It was bad bad place, but going forward what what I'm kind of worried about is, you know, swinging the other way.
1:34:16
So why don't we just start over again?
1:34:18
Look, everybody is merit-based, everybody's equal opportunity.
1:34:23
Look, some of y'all ain't going to make it, but it's got nothing to do with your race uh and see where we go from there.
1:34:30
But that but that probably uh won't happen sadly because a meritocracy is an uncomfortable uh simple truth.
1:34:41
And sometimes when you have a again, this book picture book I had cuz I referenced at the beginning the overrepresentation of Asians and Americans in orchestras Mhm. Right?
1:34:56
That does that mean the orchestra is racist? No.
1:35:01
This is how I how it goes, the overrepresentation of Mormons in CEO position.
1:35:10
They look like regular white guys.
1:35:10
It's it's just culture that's built.
1:35:12
The overrepresentation of Indians who win the spelling bee.
1:35:17
Does that mean the spelling bee?
1:35:17
No, that's just what they decided to do.
1:35:22
Could you imagine, you know, any any merit-based any merit-based thing, that's how it that's got to be.
1:35:29
Um but that and that's kind of what that book talks about is that some cultures just put a different premium on different things.
1:35:36
Could you imagine if the NBA all of a sudden invented a white quota?
1:35:43
Hey, we got enough brothers in this draft.
1:35:47
Like we're we're going to need to draft some, you know, I don't know who I don't care what Oh, he didn't even make it to to college, we got to bring him in.
1:35:59
That you know, that I I I laugh at that because it's funny.
1:36:04
But there is that sense that um you know, uh particularly with black people like hundreds and hundreds of years of slavery, man.
1:36:16
Like do you got to make I understand the impulse to be like, wow, like you just said, we up really badly. Yeah.
1:36:25
And we've got to make amends.
1:36:31
Um surely when the pendulum goes as your example, right?
1:36:37
Like having a white quota for the NBA. Right.
1:36:44
I just think about how people would react to that.
1:36:46
They would react violently, I would guess.
1:36:48
Oh, it it would it would be an unsustainable You know what people would think?
1:36:55
Oh, this is clearly a joke. Exactly. That's right.
1:37:01
Well, you remember Chappelle's racial draft, right? Did you ever see that?
1:37:04
Yeah, that was a it's a brilliant skit.
1:37:06
Totally brilliant because he's pointing out why I'm laughing at that.
1:37:11
He's pointing out exactly why that what you just said is funny. Right?
1:37:19
But this is I mean this is this is the world we live in and what it comes down to for me again back to the back to talking about the things that I have control over and what I have to think about.
1:37:32
You know, I I I don't go picking these these arguments cuz I'm not really interested in having them.
1:37:37
With that said, when they find me I I I just cannot abandon rational thought.
1:37:47
It's the same thing for other points.
1:37:48
I got a buddy who's always sending me stuff about vaccines and these that it that come out and I'm like like, look man I don't I don't know. Here's what I do know.
1:38:02
I know that Instagram is not a great source for information.
1:38:08
And I know that looking at the research that I've looked at um and it's not just vaccines, it's all it's all types of stuff.
1:38:15
He was one of the people who sent me He sent me a reel um about how about how the government would direct a hurricanes.
1:38:25
And I'm like I don't think you understand how not possible this is.
1:38:31
Like we can like we can influence like like we've tried cloud seeding.
1:38:34
We tried that, but the precision level it it it doesn't work this way.
1:38:39
I don't I don't know what to tell you.
1:38:41
Um and and stuff like that.
1:38:44
But but that's the thing, I push back on all types of bad ideas when they find me, but I don't go looking for them.
1:38:53
You know, there was this one phase I guess I went through where like I was tired of flat-earthers showing up on my timeline.
1:39:01
And so I went actually looking for flat I found out there's a whole flat-earther YouTube community.
1:39:05
Uh It was really fascinating because because I guess one of the flat-earthers they he accepted a challenge to go to an Antarctica and observe the 24-hour sun.
1:39:20
And the whole flat-earther community they like were yelling at him like, "Don't do it. You're a shill." All this stuff.
1:39:28
They they didn't want to put their belief at risk cuz this is a nice falsifiable test.
1:39:31
Either either you won't see a 24-hour sun or you will. Right.
1:39:37
And and if you don't, you got to you know, cut the and and stop saying the earth is is is flat.
1:39:47
Uh but this that that that's a it's one of those personality traits of mine.
1:39:51
I I really I don't care what you believe.
1:39:55
When if you just tell me you believe something, okay.
1:40:01
I can't affect your feelings and I'm not interested in affecting your feelings.
1:40:04
But when you start presenting things to me as fact or you you send me enough of things where I where I got to have like where I have to treat this as as an intrusion into my thought process and then you're cool enough for me to where I wouldn't be like, "Stop sending me this shit."
1:40:19
Then I got to um then I have to use my brain.
1:40:25
You know, I've always thought that the truth should be predictive.
1:40:29
And if you are using like listen, everybody has a series of mental models that they operate their life by, right?
1:40:36
And and you should pay special attention to models that gets you into a dead end, right?
1:40:48
Like, "What the How did that just happen?"
1:40:50
And then if you notice if you notice that it's the same model, right?
1:40:55
It's like, can you imagine having a GPS in your car that kept sending you to the wrong place?
1:41:03
You would go once or twice.
1:41:05
You would go and get that GPS fixed, right?
1:41:09
But that's that's some I won't say a failure of the education system though.
1:41:14
It's really easy to put it there because I didn't learn about the concept of falsifiability probably until Oh, the second time I went to college.
1:41:23
So, when I was in my in my late 20s.
1:41:28
The idea that I have a buddy of mine.
1:41:30
I'm paraphrasing this cuz I've been sitting on it a while.
1:41:33
It's not for God, but the idea is Corey.
1:41:35
He's like, say, "What is science, right?"
1:41:37
Well, science uh should produce Science makes predictions that are measurable, falsifiable, and verifiable with math or or repeatable, falsifiable, and verifiable with math.
1:41:56
If if you can't if it doesn't, you know, reach those three, it doesn't have those three criteria, then you are then you're not dealing with something science.
1:42:06
And then I think I said verifiable.
1:42:08
What I meant was like objectively verifiable.
1:42:11
Like like doesn't matter who sees it, we should be able to gather some data that we can go, "Okay, this is this is five. This is seven."
1:42:21
Always should be repeatable and then you should be able to predict it or verify with math.
1:42:28
Those are the three criteria.
1:42:31
That is not a complicated concept, but it's not a simple one because there are there are a lot of things you got to understand to to get to that point.
1:42:44
And once you have it, you know, then everything that you look at in your world, you can immediately kind of snuff out, "Okay, is this pseudoscience, outright or might there be something here?"
1:42:57
But that's a way to think.
1:42:57
Yeah, I agree and like that's the way I tried to approach everything I did in the books I wrote, for example.
1:43:05
Like I wanted I in my book What Works on Wall Street, I essentially spell out the, you know, here's the game plan.
1:43:14
Here I want this I want the rules that I'm testing to be so clear that somebody reading the book can go test them on the same data or expanded data and get the same result I get, right? >> Right.
1:43:31
And that that seems like being a pedantic idiot by calling that out, but what you're underlining here right now is the fact that like most people don't think like that.
1:43:44
And the idea that your belief systems are also testable.
1:43:50
And the way I look at it is like if if I have new information that is better predictive for what I'm trying to achieve, guess what I'm going to do?
1:44:03
I'm going to get rid of that other mental model that is not nearly as predictive and I'm going to replace it with the one that is.
1:44:09
But that's a continual process.
1:44:11
That's called learning and as you continue up that that scope, guess what?
1:44:16
You've got to get good at deleting beliefs that no longer serve.
1:44:21
But you remember that we first off, where your book's out when this is released, your book will already be out available everywhere?
1:44:32
Available everywhere, even Target.
1:44:32
I didn't know that like you could you >> Oh, how cool. Available at Target. Wow. Look at you.
1:44:38
>> a receipt for a pre-order at Target and I said, "Wow, that is really awesome."
1:44:42
>> That is actually really cool.
1:44:42
If you're available at Target, you really are available everywhere.
1:44:49
Cuz I don't I don't I'm trying to think, man.
1:44:51
I don't know I mean, I've seen books for sale at Target, but I don't know anyone that's like, "I'm running down to Target to grab this book."
1:44:58
Nor do I, but that's great. That's awesome.
1:45:00
Um from your other times on the pod, you remember we're going to get make you the emperor of the world for just a minute.
1:45:07
You can't kill anybody and you can't put anybody in a reeducation camp, but what you can do But what you can do is we're going to give you a magical microphone and you can say two things into it that is going to incept the entire population of the world.
1:45:25
Whenever their next morning is, they're going to wake up and they're going to say, "Man, you know, I just had these two great ideas and unlike all the other times, I'm not going to just think, 'Oh, good idea' and not act on it.
1:45:37
I'm going to act on these two ideas."
1:45:39
What are you going to incept in the world, Ed, to make it a better place?
1:45:43
One, if you can't make the world better, don't make it worse. I like love that one.
1:45:53
And and two, your relationships with people are the most important thing.
1:45:58
You need to nurture those and take care of those more than anything in the world. I love both of them.
1:46:05
Ed, as always, I really enjoyed chatting with you.
1:46:08
I wish you the absolute greatest success with this book, but man, if it's available at Target, that says something already.
1:46:14
Yeah, it's it's a it's a great time. I'm excited, man.
1:46:19
Um let's see where it goes.
1:46:19
They this whole process is surprise it's a it's fun and it's stressful.
1:46:25
It's it's all at the same time. Yeah.
1:46:27
Well, you're an inspiring guy, man. So, best of luck to you.
1:46:33
Hey, thank you for having me on.
1:46:34
I I really appreciate that. All right, man. Cheers.