has anybody else seen duu and IMAX no don't say anything oh don't say anything about Dune all I want to say about Dune no don't say it is fantastic and I want to see it again in IMX that's it that's all I'm saying is that it's worth seeing twice I don't even want to know that you think it's good it's overrated it makes
me oh stop both of you see he didn't see it he didn't sax didn't see it no I saw Dune Dune two yeah I saw it it's overated okay stop stop okay stop everybody you both of the not over there's like five great scenes sxs the scene stop stop you guys are so let your winners [Music] ride and instead we open source it to
the fans and they've just gone crazy with queen of all right everybody Welcome to the all-in podcast with me again the chairman dictator moth poly hoaa David saaks the Rainman yeah and sulan of science David freeberg it's your boy jcal here and we have so much to go through the doj dropped a Sherman X suit on Apple today
right as we were about to tape the program seems like Thursdays is the big news drop day now so this doj suit outlines five alleged abuses and they claim obviously that those abuses reduce competition while limiting consumer choice and raising the prices that consumers pay for their iPhone we talked about this
actually just a couple of weeks ago when we talked about Peak Apple the five categories are very quickly super apps cloud gaming apps messaging apps SmartWatches and digital wallets if you don't know about super apps that's the one that's maybe you haven't heard of if you're listening to this in Asia they
mention how alipay we chat and PTM are super apps what does that mean you get like five or six different functions in one app social media images purchasing getting rides you know all that stuff and when you have that you can move from one platform to another super easily and when it comes to messaging
apps we've all experienced the green bubble friend so the main argument of the lawsuit pretty interesting they explain and it's a really well-written document I read it this morning that when Apple faces new competition instead of lowering prices for consumers or offering a better deal to developers they would quote meet competitive
threats by imposing a series of shape-shifting rules and restrictions in its App Store guidelines and developer agreements I've faced this every time I've invested in an app startup they complain about the goalpost moving by Apple and Apple shares down about 3% on the news today I'm sure everybody's got
some interesting thoughts on it shamat you were talking about Peak Apple just last week or the week before I think what are your thoughts on the lawsuit that dropped today to be honest I haven't read it and I don't really know like the odds of these things just because it seems like some of this stuff is so clearly
political and I think that these things have seasons to it in the sense that there are moments where these things are more likely to go in the favor of the company and more likely to go in favor of the government the one thing I'll say is that these guys have been losing a fair number of these things so they're
kind of 5050 in their fight with epic they've basically lost against their fight with Spotify they definitely are in a moment where people are looking at the profitability of these devices as the source of their long-term cash flow and I think they realize that there's not a lot of growth because they
haven't entered a bunch of new markets so the real question is knowing of that did they do something beyond what they've already always done to try to lock people in and can they prove it I think that that's really where the government's case will come down to because then it's clear that Apple probably understood that their
Market was kind of solidifying and they introdu these blocks essentially into processes that that force people to stay that's probably bad news for them but I I don't really know because I haven't read the lawsuit yeah sax did you get a chance to read it or do you have any thought generally speaking I haven't read the
filings but I read some of the press coverage about it I would say based on the Press coverage that I read that there's not really a Smoking Gun here at least the Press hasn't reported one and what I mean by that is let me give you a couple of examples that were in the press one is that apparently the filing
made a point about when Tim Cook was confronted some time ago by a user saying when I try to send a video by text to someone with an Android phone it just doesn't work very well it never works it was a guy trying to send a video to his mom and Tim Cook responded well your mom should buy an iPhone it's
kind of like a throwaway comment by Tim Cook probably not a great idea for him to say that but that's an example of what the lawsuit brings up another example is that the Apple watch doesn't work with Android phones you know it only works with iPhones obviously again is that really a smoking
gun issue I don't think so I mean it's this is Apple's whole strategy is that all of its products work seamlessly together and apple Hardware doesn't really work with other operating systems it never has so at least based on the Press coverage I've yet to see a single Smoking Gun example coming out of this
lawsuit now I think what those examples highlight is what this lawsuit is really about is your view of interoperability what the government is saying is that Apple needs to make its apps and its devices more interoperable with other ecosystems so the watch needs to be interoperable with Android Apple messaging needs to be
interoperable with Android messaging and so on what the government is saying is that apple is refusing to play ball with other applications other operating systems and that creates a monopolistic Network effect what I think Apple would say is no the fact is that Apple from the outset has always tried to do
everything super nuts we've always done the hardware and the software together and that's what creates the magical experience and so Apple's entire product strategy is based on creating a vertically integrated stack that goes from Hardware to operating system to key applications and I think apple has a
point saying if you try to make us unwind all of that the product is not going to work as well it's not going to be the same product experience that everyone's used to so again I think that how you view interoperability at the core of this lawsuit I think that both the government and apple make good
points about that and I'm a little bit skeptical right now that the government has a Smoking Gun at least one hasn't been reported in the press and so I'm a little bit doubtful right now that the government's gonna be able to win this case freeberg any thoughts yeah I mean I think it's a function of consumer choice
if consumers want to have this closed system where they can iMessage with other iMessage app app holders and not be able to have a seamless integrated messaging experience with Android users they'll be happy if they're annoyed they'll switch over to an Android so you know this has always been Apple's orientation I I think I
mentioned this to you guys I've been on a Mac since 1984 when the Mac original came out I still have my first Mac original by the way I keep it in my office on my shelf and Apple's you know always had like a really hard focus on the software that they make available to their users to create an incredible product
experience so I don't know if this is necessarily about Market abuse as much as it is a consumer choice if the consumers didn't like the product they didn't like the fact that things were not available that things were very expensive they would go elsewhere and you do see that in segments of the market and as we talked about a few
weeks ago you do see that xus most of the smartphone market is actually Android driven yeah so this is a premium product that people are willing to pay a premium price for even if that means limited access I think developers are frustrated that they can't access this premium Market but I'm not sure that
Apple necessarily should be coerced to service developers when at the end of the day the consumers are paying for the product and to your point like is it is it really the case that a green bubble versus a blue bubble is really that limiting you know it's not the world an it's annoying but the world
yeah I would say apple has completely abused their power every chance they get in order to capture this 30% from the app store they blocked the ability for you to use Audible or you know other marketplaces to buy books and media they blocked the ability to use other media players like VLC they blocked the
ability to use browsers and if you leave Apple unchecked they just keep abusing it and so I think this is kind of one of those lawsuits that's like if we don't stop them they'll just keep making it worse and when people file complaints then Apple will back down which they did on media players and and they'll stand
down if you think about this from the PC era to now then you can see how pricious their behavior is when you buy a laptop the idea that you would have to go through an app store and pay a $30 tax to put a piece of software on your computer would seem insane 30% 30 yeah 30% tax on your which would seem insane
like if you buy a laptop you should be able to put whatever software you want on it but they did this magic trick where they said no if you want to put software on your phone it has to go through the App Store it has to be 30% and that's really the anti-competitive thing here I think this will be settled
and if you look at the different issues here I think this is going to be actually a huge win for Apple because if iMessage were to exist on Android they would get all of those users to download iMessage and they would have all those users if they made the watch compatible they would open up many more people to
buy the watch and you would get more watches I think that Apple's thinking way too short term about the the lock in here and they should you know allow more of these apps allow more watches and they should allow the gaming thing I think that they're being petty I don't think anything's going to happen here
because it's taken them five years to file there's a at least a 50% chance that the administration is going to turn over which means that this lawsuit changes or goes away entirely and then even if it does kind of proceed it's going to take 10 years of very detailed Arguments for something to happen and
frankly probably in 10 years from now we've already moved to a different compute platform and this is not going to matter I mean there there is the coin toss of what the Trump Administration would do here for sure that's valid but I think these things will get settled I think the settlement will be iMessage
releases they allow the see the thing about the Apple watch it's not just sacks that they're allowing it on Android it's would you allow Android watches to connect with the SDK directly into the IOS operating system which they block you from doing I think they should just have a little switch in your freedberg settings that allows you to
flip it and say I take responsibility for allowing third party stores and I want to be able to load any software it's your computer I don't think the government should should regulate I don't think the government should be able to mandate I think they yeah I mean I I like the fact everyone keep looking
to the government to do things that they want as a consumer make your choice with your dollars make your vote with the product and service you want to buy instead of running to the government and asking the government to come and do stuff you feel that way about price fixing what do you mean price fixing in
what context if like a group of people price fix the cost of a phone or like let's say the 30% from the app store which just happens to be the same between two app stores do you think price fixing is something valid for the government to think it's not the same do you think price fixing is something the government
should come in on it's the question if there's limited access to products in a market and all the participants get together to set the price in the market I do think that's anti-competitive and that's there a good role for the government to play there but Google and apple don't price fix because Android is
an Open Access system you can put any application you want any way you want there are several app stores to put Android apps on your Android device Google operates an app store called Google play but there are other app stores you can go to as well and they all have different prices and Google's
App Store costs by the way are not apple and they're not 30% and we talked about this last time I'll pull it up for you again it's like 15 to 12 going down it's a sliding scale so there is competition in that market generally I think the point about if there's limited access to a market for product for consumers and
everyone in that market gets together and sets a price that is anti-competitive and there's a good role for government to play there but I don't think that having the government come in and say I want this feature to have this button and this flip in my app is is what I want my government doing I want
my government protecting me from crime and you know defending the country and I don't want all the other stuff that the government does to drive costs up which is generally what the government does so what do you think the role of the government is here in terms of anti-competitive especially in the case I'm curious your thoughts on a
duopoly like if you look at Google search Monopoly pretty easy to understand like hey they've got 90% but here you got two players who have you know roughly 50% of the market each or 60 40 depending on where you are so what what is the the the proper role of government here and is this an overreach no I mean I actually think
just to give the government lawsuit some credit I actually think it's good to hold Apple's feet to the fire and make sure they're not engaging in anti-competitive tactics one of the things I've said previously on the show is that I think the government's been making the mistake of going after
bigness for its own sake and I don't think that bigness in and of itself is bad it might be a reflection that the company's done an incredibly good job and that's why it has a lot of customers and a lot of market share what I've said is I think the government should prevent anti-competitive tactics so I think that
this lawsuit is good in the sense that it's targeted at the right types of things it's not just going after Apple because it's market cap is so big it's going after specific things that it's doing to kind of lock in its Network effect now the problem that I see is just that the examples that we've been
given so far from the lawsuit just don't seem that compelling again I'm kind of waiting to find out where's the Smoking Gun here but to freeberg point I mean look I don't think you can just say that if you don't like what Apple's doing go to a different platform because because the point is that there's only two
choices and they can both engage in anti-competitive tactics and they can both create lock in but sax there are not just two choices Android is an open operating system Google has a fork of Android that they put on certain smartphones there are other smartphone makers that use other Forks of Android
so Android has enabled and the reason Google bought Android was to provide a counterbalance to exactly the dynamic of one handset manufacturer having an operating system that could control access to the internet and to apps and so Google open sourced Android many handset manufacturers use their own versions of Android to put their own
experience on the phone and then Android users can put apps from anywhere they want and other companies offer app stores so there are many app stores to go to and there are many different handset manufacturers and a lot of people I think in correctly look at the operating system landscape in Mobile and
say oh there's Android and there's iOS but Android is an open platform and there are many different Forks of it run by many different companies so I think that it is actually a very competitive market like we talked about last week I think close to 80% of global handsets are run on Android Forks so you know
it's not necessarily the case that there are only two choices and Google does not control Android there are many developers that contribute to open source there Google has their own Fork that they do a lot of work on but anyone can take their own fork and do I mean you guys can you know when you when you
um when you boot up a Samsung or Sony TV that's running Android and that's running their own version of Android are you arguing that Apple doesn't have Market power in the US they do xus they're you know yeah I mean I think sure we're talking about the US market I mean I think the US market they're about
are they about 5050 we pulled this chart up last week but I more in the US now it might be 55 45 right now yeah something like that the issue is the cat and mouse that apple is really good at playing they will push their advantage and so we see the five things that the justice department wants to go after here but
the App Store is obviously one of them and before that I mentioned some of the other categories where they do this abusive power they basically keep it up as much as they can until they get checked and I I think interoperability is actually in the long term going to be in their best interest they use
interoperability when they need it so Apple music and iTunes they allow you to use Windows and Android it's only when they see an advantage and that's really the hypocrisy of apple and I think it's really important that the industry stand for more interoperability and the ability for to load any software that
you want on your device this is a compute platform the ability for them to block you from installing your own apps on it I think it's a really terrible by the way Jason what you're saying is a very fair statement from a consumer point of view and from an industry point of view and that's where that voice should come from to force in the
marketplace changes from Apple but having the government do this and having the government involved I think that'ss all these bad they're representing the people somebody did it they asked Tim Cook to do it and Tim Cook said pound salt buy a phone for your mom no but aren aren't they representing the people
like how do you expect the people to organize like file a class action no I think if enough companies boycott the Apple platform and tell consumers to boycott they'll I mean consumers can make decisions developers can make decisions whether or not they want to develop for Apple no that's not
realistic you know that not real that's naive come on I don't think I want the government stepping in to tell private companies what to do because customers don't like what they're doing wait wait do you think that the government should stepped in to prevent Microsoft from taking over the browser the whole Netscape case
bundling I don't know the case well enough I mean I remember it but I don't want to speak I don't want to speak definitively there was a substantial chance that if the government didn't step in then Microsoft would have extended their Windows operating system Monopoly they did have an AB to the Monopoly they did have a monopoly on
personal compute OS at the time well it wasn't an absolute Monopoly I mean you were using Macintosh at the time that's what I'm saying at the time Macintosh was like 5% of the market it was under 10% at the time yeah it was about four or five% at that time Microsoft was 95% of the personal Computing market so
they did have an absolute Monopoly on that market you had a consumer Choice it wasn't a very good consumer choice but you still a consumer choice you could go use MacIntosh and you did you were using lot of people could afford it yeah okay but the point is that Microsoft had substantial Market power and what they
were in the process of doing was the smart thing from a business standpoint which is you take your operating system Monopoly you use that to extend into the browser you kill Netscape you take over with Explorer you bake Explorer into your Windows operating system so the two things are basically the same then from
there hold on from there you leverage your control of the of the browser in the home screen to control search okay and so you think about like all the dominoes that would have fallen if Microsoft had continued maybe if like Bill Gates had continued being CEO and there would have been no Google there
would have been no Yahoo they would have controlled the internet they would have controlled the internet and they were actively you left out a big piece of sax which you'll remember the second I say it they were trying to break HTML in Open Standards by creating ActiveX and using all funky Cod right and so you
have to understand these companies will if you give them an inch they'll take the mile and that's exactly what Apple does consistently they consistently try to squeeze I think it's great saaks is Right tactics is the way to go after this companies these are five recent tactics I think the the government's
going to win changing three of these and that's win that's a win for me yeah the mobile operators tried to do the same at that same time if you guys remember Verizon yes singular they they you could only put their apps if you bought it through their store yeah on their operating system on the mobile phones
that they contracted to have made so they all had their own custom version of the handset manufacturers OS which all and then they did rev share back with the manufacturers and that's why Android was acquired it wasn't actually at the time to compete with Apple Android was required to compete with all the mobile
phone companies that were trying to block access to the internet and apps well Google wanted to maintain its search Monopoly let's be honest they that's why they bought it they knew users would be there and they wanted to have the default they want to have the access to the internet block Yeah by this by the handset manuf they want it
to be the default search browser in the app which is what you have to agree to by the way so if you want to talk about perniciousness and heavy-handedness if you have an Android you and you want to use the Android updates from Google corre you have to give the bundle of apps if you want the and support from
Google you can for it but then you don't get their support which then breaks your phone if you want their version that's right yes yeah so you know there's a little cleverness here I think so you have two basic ecosystems in Mobile it is a duopoly and both them Advantage themselves in ways that grow over time
and I think that if Apple were completely left unchecked it would figure out ways to boil the Frog and keep extracting more and more value out of Downstream applications tot they boil we paying 1,600 or phone now how are we paying 1600 or phone so look I think it's I think it's good for the government to hold their feet to the
fire but here here's the thing that the government's lacking is again that example they can point to that's really compelling I mean with the Microsoft Netscape thing it was really obvious what they were doing right the browser was the gateway to the whole new platform which was the internet and if
Microsoft could make that a feature of the operating system their dominance would extend into the new Computing platform but you remember how they did it Apple watch is just not the same thing the Apple watch is kind of a an appendage of your phone that most people don't even want so it's hard to point to
something do you remember saxs how they were getting the browser built in they were going to the oems the Dells of the world the HPS and saying if you want this price for Windows you have to include the browser on the desktop it has to load it has to ask for your credentials all this stuff or you can
pay $150 for Windows um if you want it with without the browser bundled so they use this pricing to get the oems to to bundle it and that that was where well isn't that what Google's doing with Android effectively exactly is like it's exactly right you can have your own version without Google search if you're
willing to put up with all these headaches and maintain an operating system update the operating system yeah it's exactly what they're doing so anyway I think three out of five of these get settled and it'll be good for consumers ultimately I I I would not Financial advice but I think that Apple's going to be able to manage this
I'd buy the stock I may buy more of the stock I think that this will be good for them long term all right listen going even deeper into apple and this Google relationship big questions emerged this week as Bloomberg reported that Apple was speaking to both Google and open AI about powering certain AI features on
iOS specifically according to the article this deal between Apple and Google seems much more likely than the open a one and could happen this year as you know we've talked about it on this show before Google has been the default search engine on iPhone for I think over a decade now and uh Google pays Apple 20
billion a year that's pure profit for Apple U it's unclear what features they would power with Google Gemini maybe it's like the search deal and Google Gemini's on there maybe it's built in and Apple has been building its own llm it's called Ajax they've been doing some other open source stuff called Maggie
what do you think chath you were talking about this on Twitter you think you had a pretty good tweet and a pretty strong position if apple is going to use Gemini what does that say to you about Apple and their view of the future I think it's them giving up this is the most consequential new development in
technology and compute in probably 20 years 30 years and so to be spending tens of billions of dollars of R&D and to not have enough allocated to this so that you have a legitimate path forward to do it yourself I think is a little inexcusable [Music] actually it's akin to IBM in the 70s going to Microsoft and and basically
asking them to build the operating system for them when you're such a dominant company in such a dominant position but you abdicate your responsibility to innovate I think that that's a really bad situation for a company to be in was like Yahoo adding Google Search right and then by the way
on the heals of like turning off cars and and losing these antitrust issues in Europe and then being sued by the doj here to then be in a licensing discussion with a third party for such a critical technology I think is just says not very good things about the state of the company freeberg your thoughts on
this potential deal we don't know what features this would power I don't know if it's Siri or it's just image editing or search an extension of search maybe giving an answer I have no idea it seems to me like there's if if Apple's doing the right thing which I'm sure they are they're probably building their own
alternative platform here they realize it's going to take them some time in the interim they want to have a stop Gap and my guess is by going to Google they're probably going to get paid instead of having to pay someone else for the technology because Google will realize some benefit from getting users over to
search results and seeing ads so Google will probably benefit and pay them instead of them having to go pay someone for access to some technology that consumers might want access to sax any thoughts here I'm sure apple is goingon to make an investment in building their own models here yeah I mean who would look
at the launch of Google Gemini and say I want that that launch was at total Fiasco another world company I think it fit the Apple philosophy pretty good I how woke would Tim Cook have to be to look at the launch of Gemini and say oh yeah I don't see anything wrong there you got that exactly right
absolutely I want that yeah Siri show me the president of the United States I mean apparently Tim Cook is the only person on Earth who is impressed with the launch of Google Gemini I mean I can't believe the story is true it's just it can't be true I'm so excited today to launch Gemini on stage here iOS
27 Oh my God can you imagine him on stage doing searches live the story can't be true because it' be so strategically dumb like said even if Google Gemini were great you'd still want to invest in having your own thing because it's such a strategic technology why would you ever Outsource it to your
main competitor but in this case you know that Gemini was terrible it was a fiasco and so the story makes no sense I just can't believe it's true it's probably people knocking on each other's doors they spent $30 billion last year on R&D 30 billion Apple to be clear they spent $30 billion on R&D what did they spend it on
catering I mean you got to think Apple vision is a big piece of that right chips I guarantee you like half of that is like the M3 M4 30 billion like not a couple crumbs fall out of somebody's pocket and so there's 50 million allocated to just like you know mucking around with llama or mucking around with
mistol what if they took project Titan the car car deal that was 10 billion supposedly they had spent on that and if they put that towards AI Microsoft again again it goes back to the to the people I don't think I don't think the the person in charge of the windshield wipers for project Titan is going to be the person that figures out
how to land a really killer llm yeah that's a different skill set but it's not even that expensive I mean's a mechanical engineer and one's a computer scientist so these are not the same people they're not fungible that way I mean I guess the question here is Apple capable of building on a culture basis
freedberg this type of software they're a hardware company it's not you're standing on the shoulders of the whole open source movement all you have to do like jam said all you got to do is take the latest mistal model or jump on hugging face and start working I mean you're not starting from zero because of Open Source not not only you're not
starting from zero not only do you have the foundational models that are excellent and available in open source you have probably the most prolific set of training data that has ever been ex created in the entire world to make these models kickass yeah you have all the Apple photos archive I wonder if in
their ch see that's the thing is their terms of service is so privacy based I wonder if they could even use that information and I just think look at the end of the day the Apple brand is still exceptional and so if you're given a $10 million a year job at Google versus a $10 million a year job at meta versus a
10 million $10 million a year job at Apple if you're like one of these killer AI people that get these kinds of offers I got to presume that Apple gets their fair share of these people yeah you would think and even in the worst case you see Microsoft doing like pretty heavy handed deals with companies like
open Ai and just this week with inflection so it's not as as as if these deals can't be done right and so it just kind of like leaves I don't know it's just it's quizzical to spend that much money to not necessarily be willing to compete on the human capital to not necessarily be in the market acquiring these
businesses I don't know it's just it's just a question mark like what's going on over there Jam ask what's going on over there we have some inside footage Nick you want to play tape what's going on here what are we watching I hope we didn't keep you waiting mother nature mother nature well
welcome to Apple how how was the weather getting in oh she's controlling the weather was however I wanted it to be yeah they did this couple of but but this reflects their self-image I mean they released this they care about the plan no it's it reflects that they think somehow this is an accurate reflection of the way they
do meetings no I think it was the um point they were making is they were trying to do a skit about like how they're doing less packaging and including that that skit was to tell you that you're not getting a charger in your next iPhone because they they don't they want to say didn't it was cringe I thought the intent was maybe
it's a little cringe but yeah I it a little cring but I do appreciate that they are doing sustainable products and not putting as much stuff in landfills so I think they should get a lot of credit for that what I do think about this deal that's really interesting is it's sort of cementing the Google and
the Apple alliance against Microsoft and Microsoft has big you know AI ambition so this is kind of interesting if you lock in the duopoly of Google and apple and then you lock in Google search Monopoly and you start fighting Microsoft I think that's what we're I think that's what's probably going on
here is they're trying to figure out how do we keep Microsoft away from running away with this all right we covered that huge Nar lawsuit back in December and there has been a settlement big news for the National Association of Realtors they've agreed to pay $418 million settlement last week and federal jury
found that the n and several large real estate brokerages conspired to artificially inflate agent commissions the settlement is pretty pretty big deal people are freaking out about it as you know the seller of a home pays the buyer's agents commission so you have a buyer and a seller 6% fee typically
sometimes it's five but they split that 3% to the buyer and the seller but the seller is paying that 3% to the buyer now that can't be listed in the MLS anymore and that deal cannot be done ahead of time buyers are responsible for paying their agents commissions going forward so if you bought a million dollar house and
you were the buyer you would pay 30,000 to your buyer's agent or you would choose to not have an agent or you would choose to negotiate it and you have to have a signed contract this is a crazy just shocking shock to the system according to most people who are in it I've seen a lot of real estate folks who
are saying this is going to be healthy because you have this you have to have this conversation between the buyers agent and the buyer but Commissions in the United States are hundred billion doll a year and one analyst projected the lawsuit could lead to a 30% reduction in commission payments and that would
eliminate about half of the 1.6 million active NRA members from the industry you had a lot of feelings on this fredberg when we talked about it a couple of months ago what are your thoughts on this settlement is anything going to change is this as groundbreaking and shocking as people seem to think it is
well I would take this settlement along with a lot of the developments and advances in AI as being the moment of catalyzing real change in the residential real estate agency industry it's an industry that's been known to have fixed pricing and be very expensive to Consumers a real tax on the system and
it's largely been wrapped around this idea of mitigating your liability reducing risk servicing the customer many of those aspects over the last couple of years have been largely standardized through forms digitized because so much of this information is no longer going to get paperwork from the courthouse but a lot of the
information sits digitally and can be accessed in a democratized way and the fact that so much of the service and Discovery reading through documents understanding what they mean and what they say can be automated through Ai and llms much of this is kind of coalescing around what I hope and expect will be a
more seamless automated direct Marketplace for consumers the challenge is that most consumers put most of their personal net worth into their home and so it is where most people's net worth is tied up and so because it is such a sensitive investment and it is their entire savings they want to have a trusted
advisor by them so it's going to take some time before that trusted advisor becomes some piece of software but I do think that software is going to play more and more of a role in providing advisory tools and services to consumers in this transaction Marketplace and that's only going to catalyze and accelerate the fee reduction I do
project and I do expect that much of what is charged on a commission basis on a percent of home value today will change to being a fixed Fe andk 10K for your buyer AG different services so you can have someone do ackart do the disclosure diligence for me for 5K you know negotiate the purchase for me for
10K and you as a consumer will start to pick from a a menu of the services that you want to have rendered for you and things that you're comfortable doing yourself I don't need someone to negotiate price I don't need someone to find me a home I've got red fin I can go do that I can arrange open houses on my
own the lock box is there I'll go walk around the property I don't need someone to point out the the color is nice in a room and so I think that there's elements of what this h of what will happen here which is a fragmentation and then an automation of these services and as a result significant fee
reduction and I'm in the middle of doing this myself right now with a piece of real estate where I'm not using an agent and I've been using a direct listing service I've used all of these standard forms there's a lot of AI tools you can use to kind of read all the disclosures for you make sure everything's C pathetic and these
escro they'll handle a lot of what a lawyer will handle and they'll get paid a you know a fee which is much less than the agent fee so I do think that there's a big disruption happening in this industry I think it's it's really important for consumers agents are going to be you know hands in the air telling
you this is ridiculous you need someone to help you you need an adviser that will continue for a good chunk of the market for a very long period of time but I do think that it's for the benefit of consumers over time to see these fees come out of the system and see those savings go back in consumer's pockets
and for the value of their real estate to go to go in their pockets not into an agent's pocket is it going to change the profitability of a realtor pretty meaningfully right both Realtors won't be able to be in business right I think the sellers will do fine and they might capture more of it because they'll
they'll my understanding is the the the seller will maybe do both sides of the transaction no that's not what's going to happen and there's also going to be limits on that but but here's what I will say if you look at the the the number of people there are 1.4 million members of N today the National Association of
Realtors if you look at the distribution of earnings and you guys know this my guess is probably 10% of those realtors make 40% of the fee income or 50% of the fee income there's a long tale so there's probably a third of those folks who are already kind of sub living standards in terms of income maybe half of them won't
be able to make enough money in this new you know fee regime that it'll no longer be an attractive proposition to be a real estate agent for maybe half a million to a million people over time that are agents today yeah you know it's interesting this the the sellers are going to be faced with Buyers who just
show up having seen something on redin and don't have a buyer's representation and so they think from the stuff I've been reading that the sellers agent might be pointing them to hey go to these services and be acting as like one broker essentially representing both sides that's what people are saying is
the potential downside I don't think that's yeah that's not gonna happen for a couple of reasons but let me ask you guys a question if you guys want to to go buy a new house currently you just go you know sign up an agent or buyer agent they go walk with you and eventually they'll get paid by the sellers agent so
now you have to negotiate a fee with them up front would you negotiate a fee and say to a buyer agent hey I'll you 2% of whatever home I buy would you be comfortable doing that or 3% or 4% how would you have that conversation no what you say sex I mean forget I know you've got a different situation because you've
got real estate people like working for you but like if you were to go out and and if would you go out and get an agent and pay and negotiate a fee with him it is not worth it to the buyer to pay two to three% of the purchase price to make appointments you can see all the houses on MLS through Zillow or redin or
whatever and what about handling closing and disclosures no buyer would ever voluntarily agree to pay this massive commission it's not worth it so it's game over for the Realtors if buyers are forced to pay their own broker's commission the only reason this system works is because the seller is forced to
pay for it yep and when you sign the listing agreement with the seller's agent you can negotiate a little bit at the margins sometimes you can get the 6% down to 4 to 5% for a big listing but 50% of it will always go to the buy side I mean I've said to these guys the buide agent doesn't do anything why don't you
make it 2% for yourself and 1% for the buyer they won't do that they just won't take your business the seller will not represent you they have like all sorts of rules against it so the whole thing is like protect it's like a racket that's protected some it's cracked yeah well I I still am like a little bit
skeptical that this is going to work out exactly the way we're saying because it is just such a a death blow to the industry if buyers are forced to pay their own commissions uh their own like buy side Brokers commission and in the Articles they're saying there's still like some gray area about what's going
to happen but that is what should happen buyers should be responsible for paying their own Brokers and if you do that I think you'll knock out half the fees of this industry here's an idea why they let them charge an hourly fee as a buyer's agent like there will be people doing that J $200 an hour $300 an hour
doesn't this impact home prices as well like if you if the buyer had to pay all of a sudden their affordability effectively goes down because if they have to pay an extra $100,000 for a home then that's $100,000 they can't pay less than they can pay for the house itself because they have to pay an agent so it
all comes back into home prices no it Nets out because the sellers agents no longer paying 6% they're paying 3% and so now the sellers agent has 3% more that yeah but net net I think it's good for buyers and sellers because the transaction cost of TR tring go down exactly money goes back in consumers Pockets yeah create a more fluid Market
yeah and I think it's a great opportunity for startups I'll say this right now like I think there's going to be a lot of startups that are going to come out of this ruling that are going to launch allart Services leveraging AI to make these services available direct to Consumers without needing an agent
and they're going to be pretty compelling services and they're going to show up real fast I mean a lot of people will not list their home or sell it because that 6% might put them underwater so if it's now now down to two or three totally yeah people might be like it's always been crazy to me that anyone would pay a
percent of absolute value it makes no sense I bought a home for a million I'm selling it for a million one so I've made a $100,000 profit but I got to pay $60,000 of my total growth to an agent to sell it for me% profit I just gave up 60% of my profit on my home right it makes no sense and the crazy thing is
that a bad sale of your home would be let's call it 900,000 or a million and a great sale would be 1.2 so exactly there's a very small margin where they actually have an impact based on the quality of their effort but they get compensated for the whole thing yeah for the whole thing get compensated no
matter should be that you get a flat rate $10,000 at a million and then you get 10% over a million or something you could give just like you with a sales person the incentive comp should be variable based on performance whereas the guaranteed part of the comp should be like you said a flat fee it's kind of
like the salesperson has an OT right Bas variable yeah I mean you could say if you said 1% up to a million so that's 10K and then 10% for the next 100K and then 20% for the next 100K so you you know that 1.2 million is really hard to get yeah I'll give you 20% of that incremental 100 that would be a much
better deal you would be getting paid for the actual performance so anyway really you know Jal I have an idea for the National Association of Realtors oh here we go if they want to stop being perceived as an evil monopolist all they got to do is put out a cringe ad talking about the environment everyone's going
to love him again absolutely they should do an ad where they have a diverse cast of people and that diverse cast could talk about like putting sustainable forestry around it all I got to do is say something something landfills everyone will love them again they can charge ABS absolutely virtual signaling
right they can genu something something landfills yes absolutely all right let's keep the train moving here the AI landscape shifting yet again Microsoft just just did another one of these shadow Aqua hires this time of inflection AI bizarre deal Microsoft has hired most of the team at inflection AI including the CEO Mustafa who everybody
knows I just actually had him on this week in startups he was the co-founder of deep mind he worked at Google for years and now he's going to be the CEO of a new company called Microsoft AI it's essentially the consumer AI division of Microsoft but they did give him the CEO title for background
inflection have raised 1.5 billion over the last two years it was one of these giant fundings that occurred to build a foundational model like open AI is doing like anthropic is doing they had a chat bot called Pi very similar to chat GPT it was supposed to remember your history and build a relationship with you that's
all getting shut down Reed Hoffman who is a major investor in in this company and who's on the board of Microsoft and who so LinkedIn to Microsoft played an important role in this deal according to reports and the inflection investors included Bill Gates Eric Schmidt and a bunch of other interesting folks but
this was a aqua hire which is the weird thing chth they hired all the employees they leave the shell of a company the company's going to go do some Enterprise stuff and investors get to keep their Equity inflection but I guess that might be worthless there's some going on here that we don't know about this deal
structure when you saw this deal and you see Satia taking the entire team like he threatened to do with open AI if you remember the same exact kind of thing I'll aquire everybody if you don't take the deal what is your takee of of what's going on here why did this occur like this instead of just buying the company
I mean it occurred like this because Reed and Bill are inexorably tied to Microsoft so they were able to get a deal for investors that would have never happened otherwise and so good on them I think they did a very good job protecting the fiduciary interests of the investors of this startup sa no
conflict no interest right yeah I mean we say that a lot this is so weird though why not buy the company sax is it because of antitrust actually that's a good theory it's just it's hard for Microsoft to get anything through at this point so probably they're just like why even deal with the antitrust they
don't really need the assets so I think they licensed the core from the inflection C Corp and then they hire away all the talent and then the investors get made whole so I think it's like an aqua hire with a little bit of tech along with it that they get through the licensing deal maybe that's just to protect them from an IP standpoint my
take on this is that this was a bailout this was a bailout of the investors I don't think the investors got ripped off here I think the investors were like thrilled to get their money back for whatever reason this company wasn't going anywhere it had raised hundreds of millions of dollars Reed and Bill
obviously are are wired in they're on the Microsoft board and this company did have some talent that Microsoft wanted so they basically did a giant Aqua hire and it bailed out the investors freeberg is that your take this is a bailout or do you think this is a new interesting end run around antitrust where hey if
Adobe wants to buy the next figma just buy the team do a license of figma some faka lunacy or do you think this is a b what what's your the the here freeberg and what does it say about Microsoft's approach to the AI space I don't think this is some runaround antitrust I think obviously like a lot of
companies there's been a realization on how quickly foundational model development is commoditizing and how quickly costs are escalating and how many folks are chasing it so having some unique advantage in the particular plane of the market where they were participating as a startup maybe became difficult and untenable and
negotiations and conversations between all these parties who all know each other very very well and are all very friendly you know this ended up being kind of the best way to move forward so all right there you have it folks in other related news the Saudis are planning a $40 billion AI fund according
to the New York Times reps from the public investment fund uh in Saudi have spoken to a number of firms about partnering on it the would be the second largest Venture fund of all time behind soft Banks hundred billion Vision fund one which you remember was also backed by the Saudis and some other folks in the Middle East region this new
fund would reportedly invest in AI startups chip companies and data centers so we thought we'd do a little quiz here if you were given the 40 billion David Sachs how would you allocate the 40 billion in AI in today's market 2024 going on if they put you in charge of this $40 billion AA fund II
fund where would you deploy it same question would come around the horn to you freeberg and then you Chima well the first thing is I wouldn't be in a rush to deploy all 40 billion at once because that's a recipe for spraying a lot of money into unproductive or overhyped things so I would take my time first of all but
second in terms of coming up with the framework I would think about the different levels of the stack of AI and try to figure out where the value capture is going to be and I think there's maybe four different layers of the stack first you've got the Silicon you've got the chips where Nvidia is
dominant then you've got the foundation models where it's open Ai and then there's some open source models and then you've got kind of infrastructure Dev tools Vector databases things like that and then finally you have the applications sitting on top of that which are just getting started I think it's really hard to know from where
we're seeing today exactly who's going to capture the most value in the stack I mean you could make an argument for against pretty much any layer of the stack I guess if I had 40 billion to deploy what I would do is try to identify who are the leading companies at each level of the stack and then who
are the most promising Challengers and I would make a bed at every layer so I'm covered that's not what I personally do because I'm not you know I'm just not a hardware investor I'm not really an infrastructure investor I'm more of an application investor so I'm going to focus on that fourth layer of the stack
and just trust that there's G to be enough value there but again if I was managing a $40 billion Sovereign wealth fund then I would play at every single level and I would hire the best people who know each layer of that stack sax think you did a good job of sort of showing the the four layers of the stack
I think open source the application layer and specifically Robotics are huge opportunities that are underinvested in right now so I would take the top open source projects I'd find those top contributors take the top 20 or so open source projects and back them to the tune of you know significant money 50 million 100 million whatever it takes
and try to own the top 20 or have insights into those top 20 open source models and own those teams look for the top contributors really easy to do on GitHub and hugging face and repet and other places where they're active and Empower those then obviously there's verticals we're working on people who are doing
screenplays and tax just like you are sacks and that's a fantastic place to deploy money but then I think robotics is going to be super super compelling here and that takes a lot of money and so you do have the capital as a weapon and you know the 20-year view of this and making a general P purpose robot
like elon's doing with Optimus or figure AI is doing with their robot I think robotics is a major place you could probably buy I don't know who owns Boston Dynamics now I know Google sold it so you could probably buy some robotic companies and then put the AI on them and really take a 20-year view of
Robotics freeberg your thoughts how would you deploy the 40 million the bottom Three Stacks are are very difficult right now to find a footing obviously you know I think saxs the you know it's it's the I think the generally accepted framework for how to think about how the market is broken apart but on the application side I
think is where you could think about finding more traditional business model advantages so you know I think your point about robotics is a really interesting one you know is there a Enterprise likee sale of robotics tools that have positive Roi for Enterprises and is there a business that's working
there and that is scalable vertical Solutions in labor and Automation and productivity gains are probably the best sharp ratio good Alpha lower beta and a good place to kind of deploy competing in chips competing in infrastructure competing in models it's such a you know as we just talked about with respect to
what happened with inflection and Microsoft this week it's such a rapidly changing environment it's hard to have high confidence in where things are headed there so I do think that we do know that there are Enterprise markets we know that there are segments of things like food medicine you know manufacturing these
are markets that aren't going anywhere and they could all certainly benefit from unlocks in software or in robotics and Automation and Hardware so that's probably where I would think about concentrating Capital but you know 40 billion is a lot of money so you'd probably think about deploying it over
what period of time is it 10 billion a year over four years and then is it broken apart in what way over those sectors and over what geographies and you know then find good managers to help you get it employed trth you're batting clean up here you got to hear everybody's answers before giving your own what are your
thoughts on your other besties answers and what's your plan to deploy 40 billion for the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia's public investment fund the most important thing that fund managers get wrong is not having appropriate reserves for your winners and if I look back the real profit dollars that I leaked was
not not investing enough up front but when I didn't have enough Reserve to do the full prata or even super prata and the ones that worked so the first thing you have to do and when I do the regression on all of my funds you really need to reserve between 40 and 50% of a total fund size for reserves so take 20
billion off the table and now you have a smaller problem which is how do you deploy 20 billion because the other 20 billion is purely meant for the winners where you cram the money into the few that are winning so that you can make the most money of that 20 billion I would probably take 2third of it and I
would go to all the hyperscalers and anybody that's providing Cloud compute and essentially buy out all of the compute credits on gpus so that I could tell any startup in the world you will do a safe with me the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia I will give you free compute on pick your cloud provider pick your model I don't care so if you
want to run llama on grock great if you want to run mistol on gcp great if you want to run open AI on open AI fantastic but we will pay for all the compute in return we get 7% up front and you have to tell us some Benchmark of how this model is improving and then you are hiring a team of people whose job it is and you can
probably train a model to do this as well to ingest the reporting in a systematic way to understand if it is as you guys said a robotics company there are measures of the quality of a robo A robot's dexterity or Vision or manipulation or tax completion rate if it's a search engine it's a different
thing if it's a consumer facing app it could be users if it's a drug Discovery app it's the number of legitimate protein synthesis passes that that pass whatever it is so now you've scoped the problem to 20 billion is in reserves 15 billion of it is tied up in credits and then the five billion I do think it's
what David said what saak said which is a billion and a half to the hardware a billion and a half to infrastructure a billion and a half to some of these discrete ideas you probably need a 30 or 40 person team total no more but that business can could make a trillion dollars if it was set up that way but the key is to get the credits
out to people so that the reality is what the commonality across every single AI startup is that they will have to run on a model and that model will be hosted somewhere in a cloud and all of that compute will need to be paid for so Saudi Arabia should pay for that compute get six or s% UPF front and retitle the
safe not as the what is a safe called Jason simple agreement for future Equity there should be the Saudi for future Equity I love it that's what right well there you have it MBS the Allin KSA $40 billion fund give us a call we'll fire it up and we'll deploy the 40 billion for you I kid maybe actually I'm curious you guys since
everyone kind of seems to agree with the the framework of the four levels of the stack where do you guys think the value cap is going to be do you think it's going to be by the chip companies the foundation model companies the INF structure companies or the or the applications I'll actually change my
answer in a little bit I don't think it's necessarily new technology companies per se that are going to benefit most but I think that it's businesses in traditional industries that are going to be able to leverage these tools whether they're using open source tools or third party technology
capabilities that they're buying as a service or as a piece of software there's an incredible set of advances are going to be realized in things like chemical manufacturing drugs General manufacturing that have existing scale and infrastructure that are the fastest to move to adopt these Technologies are
going to benefit the the most and I think that's probably where most of the value will acre is not necessarily a chip company but in other businesses in traditional industries that can transform themselves using AI so your answer is at the application level level yeah and then within application Level
you could divide it up between existing companies and startups yeah and existing companies are able to leverage AI innovations that are lower in the stack another way to answer your question saxs is which is the most CR which spaces are the most crowded already and so obviously chips are super crowded lots
of incumbents lots of people going after it and the foundation models are very crowded as well and the application Level is yet to sort of be built out right because we're in year zero or year one of that so I do think application Level is where there's a lot of value but I also think the hosting and the development of these various Niche
models is going to be a huge opportunity so just once again those open source models being put into cloud computing environments and optimized that could be a whole new level of aws's and Google cloud and azures so there's an opportunity for somebody to compete with those incumbents by just being better at
those models that are open source and having the team that's doing those updates and then optimizing that cloud so I would go with the cloud level for those open source models and providing that as a service like VMware does or other folks do WordPress would be a tiny example of an open source project like
that and then I just something tells me this robotic space which has been a false start over and over and over again I think this is the time where actually it's going to work and so I'm I I love that Hardware robotic space for I think you're right SX I think it's kind of bookended in my mind I think the the
folks that are building fundamental Hardware will make a lot of money over the next 5 to 10 years and then the folks that are building the fundamental application Level experiences will make a lot of money as well and then who knows the thing that we're not talking about enough and I don't understand it
well enough is the entire way in which apps are built needs to fundamentally be rethought from first principles because you essentially basically have these client server apps where you have all of this business logic that's sitting back in some server somewhere and I don't think that that's how apps get built
today in a world of AI and so it doesn't need to work that way so I don't exactly know what that means but it it just seems like most of the architecture of how the internet works today doesn't make much sense so that would then support free br's point that all of the kind of the Legacy things that we all
know and trust also get rebuilt and so that could create an entire wave where networking value gets recreated and everything so so my gosh I mean it could be very very transformational yeah I mean the idea that you would just talk to a computer or in a chat interface and you wouldn't use an app interface you
would just ask it questions it would give you answers ask a questions it gives you answers give it a task it gives you a result this is why comp this is why like Saudi needs to basically make a bet that there's just developers that are swarming around ideas let them show you what's happening because paying
800 million a year of fees is not the best way to generate a return on $40 billion if this is where you want to be investing I don't think yeah 800 million could pay for a lot of credits which probably gets you once closer to the to the answer or rdit went public today they have 800 million in Revenue company is worth over 8 billion dollar in
trading it's up 50% what do you think chamath is this the opening of the IPO window again so a oneoff we got stripe coming and what do you take from it popping 50% on the first day I don't know I really haven't looked at the company I haven't looked at the the financials but like these last three or
four weeks I think people have been so excited and rearing to go we're in the middle of another meme coin craze oh God don't bring it up we all getting pulled into that nonsense I think the point is that I think there is a speculative party going on right now and I'm not saying that Reddit is part
of it but whenever these things are so mispriced just means that people are are ready to gamble a little bit there's definitely a lot of gambling in the system as we've seen and we're recording this on Thursday so who knows what the stock price will be tomorrow generally way sorry the the other thing is like
Powell did say finally it looks pretty likely we're going to get these three Cuts so we're going to be down to four and a half to 475 on fed funds by the end of the year it probably means that we'll get another 50 to 75 basis points through 2025 so people will look out to the end of 2025 and look at a fed funds rate that's sort
of like 375 to 4% so they're getting pretty excited and froed up so this is the beginning of the beginning in terms of that kind of speculation yeah we saw crypto go bonkers the last couple of weeks yeah what's your take on all this Sachs is does it feel like people are in h gamble mode again and does that
concern you I guess after what we just experienced well I think they're pricing in these rate Cuts as if they're definitely going to happen like jamas said I think the the Market's expectation is with let's call it 70% certainty that you're going to get three rate Cuts this year and it still seems to me that that's a little bit up in the
air because inflation has not come down to the fed's Target of 2% it's still right around 3% 3.1% so it's been sticky around 3% it was coming down pretty fast last year but it's still there so people I think are Maybe gambling in the sense that they're counting on R cuts that haven't
happened yet but they liked Pal's doish rhetoric yesterday and they seem to think that that means that the ray cuts are definitely coming I don't know how pal can promise that without inflation coming down unless he's trying to create a Biden put there it is folks which was my theory going into this year is that yeah get a
Biden put from the FED absolutely and it's looking like Biden has a clear path to Victory based on the lowest unemployment of our lifetimes and this roaring stock market records yeah it's just a easy Biden Victory freedberg what do you think about the risk on I don't know Biden is incredibly
unpopular if you look at his actual polling he should not win the election but that's in spite of you're right the economy is seems to be doing pretty well and the stock market certainly doing pretty well a president with the these fundamentals would normally get reelected but Biden currently is not his
polling is not the polling of a president who's going to get reelected it is but pal comes if pal comes through with the ray cuts that will help him it's pretty amazing how horrible a job he's doing that he's made Trump look like a better candidate to some people that is an extraordinary achievement by
Biden I will have to agree there look I think the the bigger economic issue to be talking about was that buried article in the The Wall Street Journal about commercial real estate do you see that article that was crazy so this Wall Street Journal article reported that of the 36 billion of office loans that came due in the
commercial mortgage back Securities market last year only one quarter were paid off in full that's according to data from Real Estate analytics fir cred 10 is that extend and pretend strategy that you see in there oh yeah I mean only one quarter of the loans got paid off so 75% get paid off in full so
there's tons of buildings that are underwater right now but nobody wants to foreclose and then sell them at a fire sale price so yeah everyone is it's pretend an extend yeah kicking the can down the road nobody wants to take the medicine so yeah well they're hoping they're hoping that rates will come down
fast enough and occupancy rates will go up fast enough that no one has to foreclose but if rates don't come down then you have a real problem I mean again everyone is just assuming that inflation will continue its path from 3% to 2% and then we'll get these rate cuts and they're hoping they can cling on
landlords are Clinging On And I think the banks that loan them all this money are clinging on for dear life but if rates stay higher longer then you're going to see some real distress yeah including in the regional banking system freeberg you had a a science corner here a couple of different things came up the Hubble telescope 3D
printed organs what where do you want to go with this I mean do you guys want to talk about how the universe is expanding at an accelerating rate and expanding differentially everywhere we look and we don't understand how or why 100% And sax needs to use the L so yeah definitely red he dropped he dropped I
love science quarter let's do it freeberg it's your time to sign to to shine of science tell us what's going on with the universe my favorite topic astrophysics my favorite top my Z is back are we headed for Uranus we dead set on it we're dead he disappeared again he's just gonna drop in and do an Uranus jokes I
hear him giggling with his camera he's with his writers he's he just went to the writer's room to get an update on the Uranus jokes it's long been known that our universe is expanding we've all heard about the The Big Bang Theory and couple decades ago scientists began to observe the brightness of supern noi or
exploding stars and then by looking at their brightness we could tell how far away they were and then looking at the shift of the light whether it's getting red or blue you can tell whether the light the the the Supernova is moving away from us or towards us and how quickly and so what scientists have used
those observations to deduce several decades ago and for which a group won the Nobel Prize is that our universe is expanding meaning that everything is moving away from itself it's almost as if we're all in a cake the best analogy I've heard is that there's raisins in the cake and as the cake expands in the
oven all of those raisins look around and they're all moving apart from each other so the distance between everything is getting wider space is expanding Central moment the Big Bang that's the theory is right this all started in the Big Bang and it's not like you know we're all in the middle of the universe and the universe is moving
away from us it's that the entire entirety of space is expanding itself and so everything is moving away from everything else the challenge in the data was that recently we saw that different types of stars that were observed with the Hubble Space Telescope had actually a different rate of expansion of the
universe than what was previously thought from the Supernova that we saw and everyone thought there was something wrong with the Hubble Space Telescope data so you know in a final print published last month the James web Space Telescope which showed much higher resolution of Imaging and as a result
much better data and here's an image of it you can just see the difference between what came out of James web and what was used in Hubble so that shows one star that was used to calculate the rate of expansion of the universe and what this sh star showed is that the rate of expansion of the universe as
measured across a thousand of these Stars called sehid stars in five different galaxies had a value that didn't match the value that we see when we look at exploding Stars very far away and so it once again confirms what the original Hubble data showed which is that the universe is expanding at different rates in different parts of
the universe which totally doesn't make sense and there's no really clear answer as to the physics of why if there was a big bang and the universe started to expand it should be expanding the same everywhere there's no reason that different parts of the universe should be expanding at a different rate than
other parts of the universe that there's differential expansion happening Across the Universe and it really tells us that there's very little we know or understand about this large scale structure of the universe and why these things are happening there was one group that put out a theory where they said
that the local Universe where we see these seph stars that this data is based on there's almost a little bubble and on the outside of the bubble there's galaxies and they're pulling stuff out faster than what's happening where there's not as much density so there's a lot of different reasons and and
explanations for why this might be happening but it's kind of a big story because it basically confirms that we see a lot of differential expansion happening Across the Universe and we don't know why just another big mystery of the universe so super kind of interesting confirmatory data from James wed this week Jam do you want to talk
about the the the pig kidney I mean I think it's it's really incredible they took a kidney from a pig and then they used crisper casine to edit out the certain subset of the pig genes and edit in a certain useful subset of human genes and then they transplanted that kidney into a 64 year old man I and he apparently seems to be
doing well it's really incredible and this is a guy that was at end stage kidney disease and my father went through this but when you're at that endstage renal disease you're getting dialed every 3 days for up to four five six hours trying to basically you have a machine that does the job the kidneys
for you to keep your blood clean but it's just it's kind of a death sentence and it's like a slow moving death sentence at that so the idea that you could now use this effectively Infinite Source of organs seems really compelling pretty amazing I don't know what do you think definitely where we're headed I
don't even think they're gonna need yeah speaking of medical breakthroughs did you guys see the the guy who got the neuralink chip chess with his brain he's using the force yeah that was awesome using the force yeah he described it as he was playing chess and he said like I love playing chess and I've learned to use my
mind to move pieces around and he said like it's like having the force I mean totally wow amazing I watched the live stream and he said that he was a quadriplegic from the shoulders down but he loves chess he wasn't able to play chess now he's able to play chess he was able to play Civilization the game which
I guess was really hard in the absence of having this this chip and now he can do that it's it's incredible I mean it's that they kind of went public with it or I mean obviously he agreed to go public with it I think Trevor is his name it's pretty amazing and there's more amazing stuff coming
they're making significant progress over there I was talking to somebody who works there and you know it's it's it's going to be yeah it's it's going to be a process but they're making significant Pro progress and they're going to have I think even bigger announcements in the coming year they're getting it done it's
for FKS my kids were really Blown Away by it you know it's it's interesting to me what like penetrates their cynicism and like what they get actually impressed or excited by and they thought this was really cool you know it's so funny it's like people are breathlessly like looking at the Elon Don Lemon video
and they're trying to opine whether he had a good interview or a bad interview and it's like he actually had one of the best weeks of his life yeah Starship three made it up yeah Starship had an incredible performance last week and then this thing this week I mean what an incredible 7-Day run it's more than most
of us will have in our lifetime it's it's also nuts like C that Don Lemon interview like there was actually some really interesting topics discussed but I I felt like this was like this was the perfect like baton passing between old media and and New Media where he was constantly trying to do a gotta
journalism thing and Elon was trying to engage in good faith and like an interesting discussion and then every time the discussion got interesting he kept trying to go back to like Sensational gotcha journalism and it was a totally wasted opportunity if he had just Don Lemon had just stayed in the moment and like engaged in good faith
instead of trying to get this like clip it was it really bad performance by Don LM and I thought it was really getting interesting at moments in time he's obviously trying to get a job back at some mainstream Media Company maybe this is his this is his resume if he can basically get some clip of Elon saying
something that he can twist into something that it doesn't mean and he can say I got Elon Musk then he can get his job back at CNN or one of those he got paid out in full like 20 30 million bucks and by the way those jobs are not they don't exist anymore like Tucker and him were like the last of that
generation to get those huge payday over Don Lemon got paid $30 million by whom I think CNN the report was CNN paid out his full contract the same thing happened I think with Tucker they both got paid their full contracts whoever negotiates those contracts with the networks over the last couple of decades
is awesome because it's pay it's pay for play like whether you are on air or not you get paid and the and then they don't let you go to a competitor that's why both of them are doing internet stuff X or whatever carved out stuff just wanted to give a shout out here at the end of the Pod for the guys at all in talk
Chris and Spencer did an amazing job the team over there from good future media of creating just that amazing fan account now that we're growing up here over at Allin and we'll have a CEO announcement at some point we have taken over the accounts and we're starting to make our own Clips so thanks to them for
supporting us and helping grow it if you want to see the four of us go to YouTube and type in Allin podcast and then subscribe uh we're almost at 500,000 subscribers and we decided that if we hit one million subscribers by the end of the year we're going to throw a party and uh you all will be invited we'll
have as many people at the party as possible so go ahead and find us on Tik Tok LinkedIn and Instagram just do a search for Allin and you can search for all of us jamath David fredberg David Sachs and Jason calacanis thanks again to the super fans for helping us build up this amazing audience couldn't have
done it without you and uh yeah we're we're just posting Clips I think every other day on the YouTube channel and so if you go in there you can subscribe and then right next to it there's a little alarm Bell you hit the Bell you'll get an alert and you get to see our faces and and know what we look like we also
put a lot of Graphics so if you hear us referring to charts that's all on the YouTube channel for David saaks jamala David freeberg I am Jason K canis and we will see love you boys world's greatest moderator you forgot your and uh the host of this week in startups so search for my podcast this week in startups we
interview startup Founders gotta get a plug in for that no some people don't know I have another podcast so please search for this week in startups And subscribe to that as well we'll see you all next time byebye love you boys let your winners ride Rainman d and instead we open source it to the
fans and they've just gone crazy with it love [Music] you besties are that's my dog taking your [Music] driveway oh man my meet me we should all just get a room and just have one big huge orgy cuz they're all usess it's like this like sexual tension that they just need to release Som we need to get merch [Music] our [Music] going