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I think I understand that my purpose is is bigger and whatever it is whatever is on my heart, whatever my experiences are I'm going to speak out on them.
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To be in a position where you have resources, you know, where you have connections, where you have finances, where you have where you have all these things and then you can get a little bit more into it and not just be a voice.
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Now you can be an active participant in the change.
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Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world.
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Thanks to each and every single one of you that come back every week to listen, learn, and grow.
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Now you know that I'm always seeking out new stories, ideas, people who have an incredible purpose in their life, have had immense success, but are sharing their story in a really beautiful, powerful way.
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And today's guest is going to blow your mind.
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I'm speaking about the one and only Dwyane Wade, of course known for being an American professional basketball player, one of the best players of his era who won three NBA championships as a member of the Miami Heat.
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He was a 13-time NBA All-Star, an eight-time member of the All-NBA team, and a three-time member of the All-Defensive team.
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And he recently released a photographic memoir with more than 100 photos from his life on and off the quote.
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And this book, I was just saying to Dwyane, Dwyane, welcome to the show, is a work of art.
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Like it's so it's so beautiful.
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I mean the pictures, the choices, the the words in between, it is a work of art and I want to congratulate you Dwyane on this incredible achievement and welcome to On Purpose.
1:47
Jay, thank you for the introduction, man.
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That was Listen, you're Are you open for the Hall of Fame? 2023 possibly.
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That was That was amazing.
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Um yeah, first of all honor. That would be an honor. That would be my honor.
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So, you you just let me know where I need to be. I will be there. All is good.
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Well, you know, as we talked about um you know, this is this is my art.
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This is my photographer Bob Metellus' art.
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This is Just in Time Z who was a co-writer on this. This is his art as well.
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And so, to be able to present a book that looks like art uh it it shows you how much care and how much work went into this this project and this um you know, this so something that's so personal for me.
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So, thank you for saying that. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
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And I can't wait for everyone who's listening and watching, I highly recommend you go and grab a copy.
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Uh whether you're a basketball fan or not, there is so much on and off the court in this book uh that you're going to benefit so much from it.
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So, Dwyane, let's let's dive right in.
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Uh I want to start by asking you when you're compiling a book like this, when you're looking at pictures old and new what is it doing for you emotionally?
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Like, tell me about not the physical journey of compiling, but the emotional journey of putting a book together like this.
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For me like going through these photos, there's some very personal photos inside this book.
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You know, this you know, this is me trying to show J the human side of me.
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You know, as someone who's a public figure, sometimes the human side of you get lost.
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And so, what I wanted to capture is that that that part of me.
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And so, um I'm able to go into these photos and some of them, you know, it showcase my childhood, you know, whether showing up the complex uh that I grew up in on 59th and and Prairie, or whether showing my kids, or whatever it is, I'm able to go right back into that moment.
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And I'm able to kind of relive some of those things.
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And you know, I I love that.
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I love going back and remembering and Dwyane and the promises that he made and the dreams that he had.
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I love going back and revisiting it.
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back and revisiting it. When when you were capturing all these memories since the beginning of your career, did you ever have any idea that it was going to go this well and be this great and or like what was the process when
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because I always feel like you know, now everyone's lives are documented because of social media or in video and content has become so easy and cheap and free, but you know, when you started documenting, it's like no one knew where this was going to go. How how
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How how where did you feel it was going to go?
4:22
I had no clue and that's the that's the beauty of life as well is is the unknown.
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And so, only thing I knew was be a good person, work hard, treat others the way that you want to be treated you want others to treat, you know, your loved ones.
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Uh work hard, work hard, you know, I just knew these small you know, these small things in life that I carried with me and I tried to put that in everything I did.
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And, you know, I think Will Smith said it and I and I'm going to mess it up, but he said you work hard every day and you get up every day and you just work hard and you mess around and you you end up having a good life, you know, because just every day you choosing to work hard.
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And so, I worked hard every day and I messed around and had a good life and a good career.
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Yeah, a great a great career, man. A great career.
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Now, you you mentioned in the book I I love this and I love even how you structured the book.
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So, for anyone who hasn't got the book yet, the book is structured in the same way a game is structured.
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So, you got pre-game, first quarter, second quarter, half time, third and fourth and post game, which I love.
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I love that thought of thought process and getting into your mindset and your life in that way.
5:41
One of the most beautiful things you mentioned is that in the book that every tip-off, you always close your eyes, bow your head, and you talk to God.
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And when I you know, when I when I read that, I was thinking, "Wow, that is so special to be doing that in a tip-off, which is like, you know, there's stress, there's pressure, there's the fans, there's, you know, everything's like quite heightened at that point, but you're able to close your eyes, bow your head, and talk to God."
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I wanted to ask you, what do you say?
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Uh why has that been an important routine for you?
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Yeah, Jay, it it goes back to, you know, my childhood.
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I'm not I'm I look at myself as spiritual.
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I don't look at myself as as Christian or, you know, any other terms.
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I look at myself as a spiritual person.
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I felt I've always had a personal relationship with the version of who I feel my God is, uh since a very young age.
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And I've always communicated very well with him. And he's a him to me.
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Could be a her to someone else.
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Um and so, I've never lost sight of that.
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And and for for me, growing up as a young kid who who got a lot of things put in his path to try to stop him from getting to where I am now.
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Um and knowing throughout throughout that process, my faith was was so strong, you know, the you know, my word number three probably because of the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit.
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And at that moment before a game, I've done it since I've been since I started playing basketball, is I always take a moment and just be thankful.
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I'm thankful for the places that I'm allowed to go.
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I'm thankful for the places that my God has taken me.
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I remember being little Dwyane, crying, going to bed with no food in my stomach, you know, just crying, try you know, asking God to to to allow me to be the one to help get my family out of, you know, poverty.
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And to be in that situation, to be on an NBA court, and to look around before every game and see 20,000 fans, see a little kid that's somewhere with your jersey on just trying to get a glimpse in a moment.
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Like to understand that you're one of the best players in this game. I'm thankful.
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And so before every tip-off, I just wanted to express how thankful I was to my God.
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And that's beautiful, man.
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I love that as a centering and and guiding principle for each and every one of us that even in that moment you're able to have that stillness internally to set that intention and you know, whatever it means to you.
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I I appreciate that that it's you making sense of what that word, what that feeling means to you.
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It's not about any other external definition, but about your own.
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I wondered do you did you ever talk to your God after the game or during the game?
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Were there any other moments throughout the game?
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Throughout the entire game. All the time, man. All the time.
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Do you ever remember a a specific game or a specific moment where your conversation with God was was interesting or that we could dive into that that moment?
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I mean, let's let's pick any.
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Let's pick losing game two of the NBA finals in 20 11 up I think 15 points, you know what I mean? In the fourth quarter. Let's take that.
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You like, "God, what's up?" You know what I mean?
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Like you have conversations all the time, but you know, ultimately um you know, for me it is is just always been about like Look look look where I am.
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Like you know, and I and I and I and I think sometimes, you know, going through the process, Jay, like you lose yourself a little bit.
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You lose sight of like important, you know, principles, important things.
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And and I was and I'm one of those people who forgot, you know, at moments.
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And then so when I would try to always bring myself back to the moment even if we lost the finals, even if someone hit a game winner, even if I played terrible.
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I you know, you try not to question. You try not to ask why.
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It's a part of the journey.
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And so, um I I tried as much as possible to stay off God, get off his case. I love that, man. I love that.
9:48
Uh one of the things you talk a lot about in the book that comes through with the images and pictures is, you know, the foundation you had through coaching uh and the people you had in your life.
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And you say something beautiful.
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You say as a professional athlete, you have to trust a lot of people with your body.
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And and I thought that this was fascinating because you know, as an athlete, of course, you have trainers, you have coaches.
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And even in our lives, we trust people with parts of ourselves, whether it's our mind, our body, our life, our friendship.
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How did you know in the beginning or how did you develop an approach to finding out who you could trust with your body and your career versus those you couldn't trust?
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Was there a way that you sensed or started to learn and know how to make those choices and decisions?
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Yeah, I think it's it's gut.
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You know, if you don't have someone in your life that can help, you know, put you with certain people people and like a big mentors throughout your life or a big or father figure who has certain relationships and all these things, then a lot of it is going to be on your on your gut feeling.
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And so, for me, I've been one of the luckiest human beings in in my eyesight um for for the sense of having people put in his life that have really made huge impacts, who have really been there for the good and not for the bad.
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Um and it's just really helped me, you know, and and I'm not the I have not always been the most confident man in the world.
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And to have all these individuals who have been there to be able to give me that nudge, to be able to push me back up, um for me to have the common sense to allow them to do it is the reason that you and I right now are on the number one health podcast in the world because of it, right?
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So, um I'm very appreciative of everybody along this journey that really nudged me and and lift me up.
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Yeah, no, I love that and I and I think that's so important.
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I think I what I love is then the book you talk so much about the coaches, the mentors, the people who nudge you along, the players that you work alongside.
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There's this brilliant picture of uh I believe it's with you and LeBron James and you're just saying that it was from a workout where you both just went full out on each other and just encouraged each other to just, you know, keep pushing on and and keep going on.
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Can you walk us through the hardest workout or the hardest pre-game that you ever did mentally or physically?
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Could you just walk us through what it's really like because I always feel as someone like I'm not an athlete, I don't really know how hard that is physically.
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Could you walk us through that?
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Um I guess the the easiest way to say it is we all have uh we all reach a point in whatever we doing where we reach that boiling point where we feel we have nothing else to give.
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And as an athlete, you reach that point constantly.
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And the hardest part is is pushing yourself and allowing others to push you to give more than you know that you have to give.
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And it's so easy to quit on yourself.
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It's so easy to say, "I have nothing left."
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But when you when you go past that level and you go to a you tap into another place that you didn't think you had, you didn't know you had another 15 reps, you thought you was maxed out at 10.
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And you push yourself to there, now you've shown yourself that you have another level.
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And that another level helps you in those moments.
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That that that another level helps you in the fourth quarter when everyone's tired because you know you've went to another level.
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And so, just man, the whole training aspect of it, LeBron and I being two great players or being two great friends, pushing each other.
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You know, that photo was was right before game one of the 2013 NBA Finals.
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And we knew that it was going to be on us to lead this team, and we knew we were about to be in a dog fight cuz we were playing the San Antonio Spurs, and they were going to test us physically, and mentally, and emotionally, and all the fields.
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And so that was getting ourselves steeled and prepared for what the series was about to to handle us.
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Yeah, that's that's amazing.
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I love hearing that because you're so right.
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We always quit on ourselves.
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I mean, I remember the closest thing I can compare is just when I lived as a monk, you know, you'd always think that you'd meditated enough or you'd pushed yourself.
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And our teachers would push us a little more, a little more, a little more, and then you get to a day where you meditated for like 8 hours, and you're like, oh, wow, like I I didn't think I could do 8 minutes if I was left to do it on my own.
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And and you start to realize the value of association, the value of those minds around you that help you see more than yourself.
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And that really leads to, you know, you said about Tom Crean, you said he believed that I could be something more than just a basketball player.
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And and when I hear that, I'm like, wow, like when people around us see us becoming more than we see for our self, what were some of the lessons you believe that he taught you off the court?
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What were some of those, and why was it so important for you to see yourself as more than a basketball player? I don't know why it was.
15:04
Um I just know it it just always has been, and it it always has mattered for me.
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And and I don't know the reason, Jay, but when Tom Crean came to my house, and this is something that he probably did, you know, this was his first year being a head coach, but this is something he probably seen and and had it before.
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But when he came to my house and he presented me with a cap and gown, at that moment, no one ever talked to me as a as a inner city kid about graduating college.
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I I just started thinking about going to college.
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It was not uh like no like it's not a lot of people in my family who have graduated college. This is not a a thing.
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This is not something that you just do.
15:43
Um so, when he presented that to me, at that moment, I started looking at him differently.
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It wasn't just about what I can do for him on a basketball floor.
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He was talking about my future.
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He was talking about me actually building something bigger than just a basketball player. And and that continued.
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You know, being in college and having a son at the age of 19 years old, uh you know, I he he became a huge figure in my life as a father, uh as an example, uh and and just a shoulder to cry on and lean on, you know?
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And so, um role models, mentors, uh obviously father figures, and these people are so important.
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Um you know, along this journey of life for so many little kids.
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And I know so many little kids like Dwyane Wade that's growing up in broken homes and um you know, in poverty in in in poverty, um with not a lot of resources, not a lot of opportunities. They need something. They need someone.
16:34
And to be able to have those individuals in my life is the only reason, once again, that I'm I'm able to sit up here and even have a voice or a microphone to even talk about it.
16:44
Yeah, when when you look at that time when and you've referenced it in this interview and of course in the book, uh like you know, growing up in poverty, growing up with very little opportunities or resources, not having those options, what what was the first time you felt that there could be more, that you could do something with your life? What was it? Who was it?
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That right in that very moment, in that beginning, when you were in that pain and in that struggle, that made that feel possible? You know what, Jay? I I've always felt it.
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Like I I I didn't know what it was, but I always I just never felt like I've I don't want to say that I fit in.
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I just always felt that I thought differently and I looked at things differently.
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That's it, you know, like even the game of basketball.
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How as a young kid, how I was able to read the game and knew that the ball is either going inside or it's going on the perimeter. Okay, that's it. The game is easy. Like, right?
17:45
Like I just I just, you know, it's just a it's it's a part of of God's, you know, uh and my parents, you know, to getting together to be able to create create this, right?
17:55
And so, I always had that looking around like this is not it.
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This will not be it for me, like even now, um I love life and my my family and everything we're accomplishing, I still look around and I'm like, this is for now. This is not it. It's it's it's more. It's more living to do. It's more life.
18:16
And I just didn't know how to get it done then.
18:19
I just know how to get it done now because I've been through it all. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
18:22
And And And again, what you just said is it's that perfect balance between being present now in what there is, but recognizing there's more and and being open to that, right?
18:35
It's like what When I hear you speak and when I'm looking at your book, there's deep presence.
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Like when you go back to these memories in the book, like you're fully absorbed and immersed.
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Like we're there with you.
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You do that beautifully, but at the same time, you have this expansive vision that there's more.
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There's more to do, more to achieve, more to grow, more to learn.
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And And I feel like that balance is really rare.
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You don't, you know, people are either in the future or they're in the present, but being able to go between the two is is a really powerful skill and knowing that, you know, you've been able to spot those patterns and see that from the beginning. Yeah.
19:12
What do you think was one of the best decisions you ever made in your personal life or professional life that made a huge impact or decision in your overall life?
19:23
Well, I I think going back to the to the last point and this point I wanted to make was the the ability to be able to appreciate the past, enjoy and really focus and live in the now, and not be satisfied with that, and be able to visualize and look towards the future.
19:45
And having all three of those My mind is always moving and I'm going from I'm going back here and I'm coming here and then I'm going there, right?
19:52
And to be I thank God and I thank everybody for the ability to have openness. Like to be open.
20:02
If you're open in this world, you will have experiences that you never could have imagined.
20:09
But if you're closed-minded, um you know, you're going to live in a box.
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And I just never wanted to live in a box.
20:15
And so my decision was to be open.
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To don't to my first initial reaction is out of fear and is out of something that I don't I've never experienced before or I I may not have a lot of knowledge on, so I'm immediately going to be fearful and say no.
20:32
I don't want to do it because it's uncomfortable.
20:34
Who wants to look stupid? Who wants to be wrong?
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But somewhere somehow along this journey, someone gave me a smacked me on the head and said, "Here, take this open openness and go off and live life." I love that. I love that, man.
20:47
And and I I hope everyone who's listening and watching right now feels that they're getting that openness thrown at them through Dwayne as well of like, you know, just just being more open to it.
20:59
And one of one of the things though that another I I was You know what?
21:01
I love this juxtaposition between images and words.
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Like to me, all the art in my house as well, it's images and words.
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Like I feel like a lot of people just like to look at pictures and images.
21:12
A lot of people are obviously fascinated by words and lyrics.
21:15
To me, when I see this book, I love it because it's it's it's both together.
21:19
And there's this beautiful statement that you made that patience is always the hardest virtue to learn.
21:26
We always hear patience is a virtue, but you go and say patience is always the hardest virtue to learn.
21:31
And I was like, what made you realize that?
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Like where did you where was patience hard to learn in your life? In every aspect.
21:42
Like sitting in traffic, it's hard to have patience. You know what I mean? I live in LA now.
21:46
It is hard to have patience in traffic, right?
21:48
Like that's But I think we especially now in 2021, we are a we are world that we want to get there.
21:57
We want to we want to we want everything like this.
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When we get in our car, we want to get to our destination right away.
22:05
We don't We don't enjoy the journey.
22:09
We We're not enjoying the journey no more.
22:10
And it's like even like with our phones, you know, we could be in a car and it's a hour drive and your your head is down the entire time.
22:16
And you've missed so much about the world. You know what I mean?
22:21
That we're just not looking up anymore.
22:24
And so to me, having patience and even someone I get in the car, I'm like it's an hour drive. Cool. Let me enjoy this hour.
22:30
Let me get my music right.
22:32
Let me get my podcast right.
22:33
Let me put my top down and see this see the mountains and see the sun or whatever it is, right?
22:38
We want to get to things right away and we don't want to have patience and let things happen the way that they supposed to happen.
22:47
What What was the hardest thing in your life to be patient about?
22:51
Like with with your achievement in basketball, like what was the thing you were most impatient about?
22:54
If there was something you were really impatient about and that you had to realize you had to slow down and work towards, what was that achievement in basketball? I wanted it right away.
23:02
Like I I when I was in school, I wanted to be known.
23:05
I wanted to have scholarship offers.
23:10
I wanted I wanted praise through man. Like I wanted that. I needed it I I felt.
23:16
And that was something that now that my it didn't happen for me that way.
23:19
My journey was a little slower.
23:20
And now I look at my journey and I'm like, man, that journey built character.
23:26
And without that journey, I don't have this this, you know, I I'm I'm not able to look at it from this perspective.
23:33
And this perspective makes me appreciate, you know, everything.
23:34
And so I have this same conversation, Jay, with my son who's going through his own journey. And he wants it now.
23:39
He wants to be a superstar now.
23:42
He wants to, you know, he wants everybody to like the way he play now.
23:47
And it's like, yo, have patience.
23:50
Appreciate the journey because you this is creating a story.
23:52
You're creating your own legacy, right?
23:54
You you have a We're all born with a blank canvas.
23:59
And we able to go out and and and find a paint.
24:02
And we able to paint our own Paint your own story.
24:04
Don't let no one else paint on your canvas. This is yours. It's blank.
24:08
Paint it the way that you see fit.
24:09
And so, you know, that's just That's just how I approach it.
24:11
I don't know if that makes sense. It makes a lot of sense. That's just how I roll.
24:16
I mean, I was about to say that is such beautiful advice for a young man.
24:19
Congratulations to him, by the way, on the recent news.
24:22
But like for, you know, Thank you.
24:24
to hear that from your father, I think is so powerful.
24:26
And I'm sure that if there's any mothers or fathers listening right now or anyone listening right now, hearing that from you is massively empowering, right?
24:35
Because I feel we you're spot on.
24:36
We're living in that culture, driving, social media, technology, NFTs. I mean, anything.
24:43
Everyone just wants it now.
24:43
Crypto, like whatever it is.
24:46
The the six-pack abs, the incredible body, whatever that means.
24:50
Like, you know, we all want it right now.
24:52
How is your relationship, Dwayne, do you think How did your relationship with praise and fame and validation change over time?
25:01
I'm always intrigued as to you know, how did your relationship evolve with fans, with criticism, with uh good games, bad games?
25:11
Like how has your relationship with praise and validation evolved or changed over time?
25:18
I feel that the more my life has got to a place where it feels more complete in a sense that my mom's in my life, she's healthy.
25:25
We have a great relationship.
25:27
My dad's in my life, he's you know, he's healthy.
25:29
We have a great relationship.
25:31
I have a great relationship with my wife.
25:32
I'm I have great relationships with my kids and I'm building better relationship with with my with my kids as well.
25:38
And so the closest I I the closer I've got to the things that I've always wanted and needed, um you know, I've gotten better about what people say about me what or the perception of who I'm supposed to be or but when I was younger, I needed that.
25:53
Like I I I like I said, I I wanted praise to man.
25:56
Like I I needed attention. I I wanted to be famous.
26:00
I wanted to have my jerseys be the number one selling jerseys.
26:03
Like the insecure little boy in me needed that from others, you know what I mean?
26:09
And then I got to the point as things started becoming uh better in love and in family and in friends and I started feeling more whole, I stopped needing that.
26:16
I stopped caring about it.
26:16
And so I understand the journey of a young kid of my like my son who's 19 who can read 33 comments on his photo and feels like the world is coming down on him. I understand it.
26:27
But at the same time, I'm 39 and I'm able to look back and say, "That's not going to matter." You know what I mean? What matters is you.
26:35
What matters is what is what you put into what it is that your dreams is and what you want to do. Yeah, well said, man.
26:42
Really really beautifully said.
26:42
I you know, I I often feel the same way that when you know that the people and it's what we started with when I was sharing with you the intention at the beginning.
26:54
It's that you realize that ultimately the only opinions that matter are the people that deeply know you.
27:00
Like most people don't know you deeply and now you're giving us an opportunity to get to know you deeply through your uh through this beautiful book and memoir.
27:08
But it's the people that know you truly and deeply at the heart.
27:11
They're They're the ones that matter and you can't take someone who's uh you know behind a keyboard seriously because you don't really know who they are and they don't know who you are.
27:19
But we do outsource our validation and our self-assurance and our self-esteem to to everyone else and I love hearing that.
27:30
You know, I I wonder how does your son react? Now be honest with me.
27:31
How does he react to that?
27:33
Does he go How does he hear that?
27:35
Does he go Oh Dad, it's all right for you cuz you're so successful or How does he respond to that? I'm intrigued.
27:41
You know, he receives it.
27:41
You know, the one thing I love about Zaire is he receives things and he decides how you know, he wants to um pursue pursue things from from there.
27:53
But he receives the things I say but at the same time he also understands that you know what, Dad?
28:00
You've never been Zaire Wade. You know what I mean?
28:02
You've never really lived this lifestyle that I've lived.
28:05
No one is really that we know in our family.
28:07
No one has lived the Zaire Wade life.
28:09
You know, I I come I know what it's like to be come from nothing with no expectations.
28:16
But I don't know what it's like to come from something with expectations. Yeah. And so I get it.
28:20
And so I I don't I don't say these things to my son like hey, this is this is how it's supposed to be and this is how it's going to This is just me communicating with him and pass trying to pass down the knowledge that I know.
28:31
But I also understand his journey and I'm able to you know, I'm able to listen.
28:36
I'm able to be you know, have empathy towards what he what he goes through.
28:39
But at the same time I know that ultimately that's not ultimately going to matter in a sense of you know, where you're trying to get in your future, you know?
28:47
And so, I just don't want him to ever use use things as excuses.
28:54
And that's be And that's what I've always fought against.
28:58
I could have used my mom as an excuse.
29:00
Um her going to prison at when I was 9 years old.
29:02
I could have used not getting the ACT score to go to college as an excuse.
29:05
But, if I if I allow those things to to be excuses, then I'm I'm I'm allowing myself to be defeated.
29:15
Um you know, and and and and and it's like we already are behind a ball.
29:17
Life is already hard enough.
29:19
I cannot allow those things to to happen if I want to be successful.
29:23
And so, I'm just trying to to show him that and and understand it is going to take him in his own time to really understand it in that way. I love that.
29:30
You and you and your wife obviously are trying to have such healthy relationships with your kids as you just said there when you know, when you go through this experience with your parents, but now you have good relationships with them.
29:41
How did you re- reconstruct those relationships as time has gone on?
29:44
You said one of the happiest things is you have a good relationship with your mom, she's healthy, father healthy.
29:52
What was it that helped you rebuild those relationships in healthy ways based on the difficult childhood you'd had? Well, growth. Uh hav- having kids.
30:04
Realizing your parents are not that crazy.
30:07
Um but outside of that, getting to know them.
30:10
I really You don't When you're a kid, you really don't know your parents.
30:15
You know these rule setters.
30:15
You know, you know, people who take care of you and and say no or yes, you know, whatever.
30:21
You don't know your parents.
30:23
And so, what I've been trying to do and what I'm what I just got done doing yes- this weekend, we just came from Utah, is I'm getting to know my parents.
30:30
And I'm getting to know each one individually, and I'm also getting to know them around each other and and they've been knowing each other since my dad was like 15, 16 years old.
30:40
And so, they know so much about each other.
30:42
So what I'm doing is I'm learning them.
30:43
And as I learn them, I have a better appreciation of Jolinda and Dwayne, and not just mom and dad.
30:47
I think that's such uh beautiful advice for everyone.
30:52
I think as you just said, uh there's a there's a famous quote I I can't remember who it's from, but there's a beautiful statement that says uh the day you realize your parents were right, your kids are telling you that you're wrong. That's right.
31:05
And and you know, it's that it's that kind of feeling.
31:07
Like and and what you just said, like that's exactly it.
31:10
Like and I'm not a father yet.
31:13
Uh but I often think about that.
31:13
And and you're so right that we never get to know our parents.
31:17
That's such a deep and powerful statement because we expect that their job is to get to know us, and their job is to help us, and their job is to make our lives good.
31:26
But most our parents have never been asked, "How are you? How are you doing?
31:30
Like what do you care about?
31:32
What's you know, what's been happening in your life?"
31:34
Uh so I I really I really appreciate that.
31:38
I hope that after this uh podcast, a lot of people go off and make those calls, ask those questions.
31:44
The holidays are coming up.
31:44
Like, you know, this is a great time to to start reconstructing a lot of those, you know, wounded relationships or or painful places.
31:54
Um you know, you mentioned in the book, Dwayne, you said, "I try to tell everyone how much they mean to me while they're still here because I know one day they won't be."
32:06
And that is such a brilliant way to live.
32:08
Was there someone that you recently did that with or texted or called or or had that moment with that you really were trying to embody that?
32:16
I do it all the time, Jay.
32:20
Um you know, I just got off my book tour.
32:21
And you know, my chief of staff, Simone Kapers, she's 27 years old.
32:27
And she's it she she did she she handled the book tour so gracefully.
32:32
You know, and this was her first time handling this, and she just handled it she handled it so gracefully.
32:36
and I had to to acknowledge it. I had to let her know.
32:40
Um and you know, I really I I really try to embody that.
32:43
My wife and I really try to embody that.
32:45
I think if you if you ask anyone that's in our inner circle, that's in our friend and family group, they would tell you we are we don't like to eat alone.
32:54
We don't like to celebrate alone.
32:57
Um you know, we want to make sure that we all are experiencing life.
33:00
Um because it's we all are experiencing something.
33:05
Me and my wife are we're experiencing something that, you know, most of our family and friends haven't.
33:10
And we're going places that most people haven't, and it's on us to make sure we show them.
33:14
It's on us to make sure we move the curtains and move the buildings and move the trees out the way to make sure that our friends and family who have not been to places that we're been that they get a chance to see it, you know?
33:25
And so, I'm all about creating moments, creating memories.
33:28
Because at the end of the day, when it's all said and done, when someone that you lose that's so close to you, when they're gone, all you have is those memories that they left you.
33:38
And those are the stories that you're going to tell.
33:40
And so, we all are about creating memories together, and that's that's how we roll.
33:44
Did you Did you ever not live that way and regret that?
33:48
Was there anyone that you wish you got to deal with that way?
33:50
Or or do you feel like you've been like that the whole time?
33:53
Have you always just felt that you've tried to live that way?
33:55
Or was there someone that kind of like snuck through the cracks?
34:00
Yeah, I I wasn't always open-minded.
34:03
Um you know, I didn't have a great relationship with my my mom my dad's mom or my dad's father.
34:11
And it didn't I didn't really affect me when I was younger because it was just it was what it was, and I really didn't care to have it.
34:19
And then they both passed away within, you know, I think a year and a half of each other.
34:24
And I And I remember crying.
34:24
I remember driving in my car when I got the news, and I remember just crying.
34:27
And I never felt any emotion towards my grandparents because I didn't grow up with a relationship with them.
34:32
And at that moment I felt I felt bad because I felt like, you know what, D, you could have been the bigger person.
34:39
You could have you you never took time to understand to under to sit down with them and ask questions and understand why the relationship was the way it was anyway. You know better.
34:49
And so I think after that I kind of woke up a little bit and I kind of I started trying to put beef in certain things to the side.
34:56
If you someone in my life that's going to affect my emotions or my mood, you're going to make me cry.
35:04
And so it it became important to me around around that time.
35:06
Yeah, no, that's that's really special.
35:08
Thank you for opening up and sharing that, too, because I think often, you know, we always hear the side of like, yeah, remember people but we always forget that there are people in our life that we didn't think like that then.
35:19
We didn't have that mindset then and, you know, we missed out on that.
35:22
So that's always a beautiful thing to hear.
35:24
One of the one of the things that you've done a lot, Dwayne, which is really admirable, I I do believe it is because it shows a sense of of risk, a sense of confidence, a sense of integrity.
35:35
Uh you know, we're all aware of the police brutality that's been happening in, you know, black communities for for a for far too long.
35:44
Uh and for you speaking up about this topic, supporting conversations around it, trying to make change, using your platform for that purpose has been an important part of your work.
35:55
Uh and and you say that, you know, what's the point of having a platform if if we're not using it for this.
36:00
Can you walk through what that experience has been like from going from uh a young black man growing up in an inner city, like having that pain and pressure yourself, to now being obviously a powerful, influential individual.
36:13
Tell me about how it feels different and and what's changed if anything.
36:18
You know what, I was just talking about this the other day and I hope this analogy makes sense to to all your listeners.
36:26
Sometimes, and I'll talk to my son about this thing called um imposter syndrome. Right?
36:32
Sometimes I feel like I'm like I'm an imposter.
36:34
Like I feel like I'm I feel like I'm that kid that snuck behind the tall kid, you know, to and no one has caught me.
36:43
And like I'm and it's like no one has seen like no one is like said, "Hey, kid. Get back here. You're going too far."
36:49
And I feel like people are just still letting me go, right?
36:51
And I'm like it's a reason that these opportunities that I've been that I've that I have it's a reason for them.
37:01
It's not just because I'm talented as a basketball player.
37:05
I've seen a lot of talented basketball players not have the the the microphone that even people will even listen.
37:12
It doesn't matter about that.
37:12
So, I think I understand that my purpose is just bigger.
37:16
And whatever it is, um whatever is on my heart, whatever my experiences are, I'm going to speak out on them.
37:24
That's the world we live in.
37:24
It's called freedom of speech where I'm going to speak out on them and then at the same time to be in the position where you have resources, you know, where you have connections, where you have finances, where you have where you have all these things.
37:36
And then you can get a little bit more into it and not just be a voice.
37:39
Now you can be a an active participant in the change.
37:41
And so, that's what I tried to do in the My Brother's Keeper Foundation, Wade's World Foundation before that.
37:49
That's what Carmelo Anthony, Chris Paul, and I are trying to do in our Social Change Fund.
37:55
It's we we're trying to make sure that, you know, we be active in the change that's that's happening in our communities.
37:59
What what have been some of the changes, Dwyane?
38:01
Could you walk us through that?
38:02
And I know you're a very humble individual, so you're not going to go off and talk about all the massive change you've made.
38:06
And you know, but I'd I'd love to hear about some of the work that you're doing that you feel is really having an impact in the communities and the lives of young young people in those communities because I think it's so fascinating people to realize, like you said, it's not just about a voice.
38:20
It's not just about social media, it's about actual change in these in these cities.
38:25
Could you could you walk us through some of that stuff?
38:28
Yeah, you know, without going into oh wait, well, we I we done this and we done this.
38:32
I think the best the best thing that that I know that I can do and and and Mellow and CP has the same mindset is I have about nine jobs, J.
38:42
I and I'm a father of a lot of kids and I'm a I'm a husband and all these things.
38:49
I understand where my strengths are and my weaknesses.
38:51
I understand where my limitations are.
38:54
But I also understand that I have a passion and we have a passion for our community.
39:00
And so it's people that's out there on the ground that's actually doing the real work.
39:03
And what I've tried to do what I've tried to do throughout my entire charitable efforts is support the people who are doing the work, the programs that are doing the work, the individuals that are on the ground, going to jail for this, boots on the ground, in the community.
39:21
Those are the people we want to support.
39:23
Those are the people that's why the social change That's one of the reasons the social change fund was formed.
39:27
That's one of the reasons why the Wade's World Foundation was formed.
39:28
It wasn't for me to get any acknowledgement, it was for us to be able to raise enough money to be able to pull our resources together to give back to the people in the community that's doing the actual work.
39:39
Yeah, no, and I and I knew that.
39:39
I just wanted to hear more because I I genuinely just I genuinely admire that work so much.
39:46
And and hearing you speak about it you know, is is really impactful for a lot of individuals because I think sometimes, you know, it's like what you're saying about being more than a basketball player.
39:55
Like you And today I'm I'm not focusing on the basketball because I think I I love seeing everything else that you've done by building this incredible empire and this incredible impact and the heart that you do it with.
40:06
And I want to understand how your experience has been so far being a business person and having ownership of the Utah Jazz as well.
40:15
Like that's a whole another part of you as well.
40:16
What's the biggest thing you've learned so far from that shift?
40:20
Are there Are there certain things that you're using from the sport in the business or are you learning completely new skills?
40:27
They say if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
40:30
And so, you know, and I talk about this in my book a lot, too, right?
40:33
I feel that, you know, the sport that I played, basketball, is a is so many lessons in there that are metaphors for life that are life experiences.
40:43
And so, if if if I can be successful in a sport that is very hard to be to crack.
40:50
If I can be one of the one of the players to get drafted out of 450, or I could be one of the greatest players of all time, then I know what it takes to be successful.
41:02
I've already cracked that code.
41:04
And so, don't reinvent it.
41:04
Just take the lessons that you've learned along this journey and apply them to your to this life.
41:11
And that's what I try to do.
41:13
And so, for me, Jay, if my jumper was off, if I didn't know how to dribble, if I wanted to to learn a move, I would go out.
41:19
If I want to get stronger, I'm going to go out and hire a trainer.
41:22
I'm going to go out and hire somebody to help me, right?
41:23
Fix that or work on this.
41:27
So, I'm going to do the same thing in this life.
41:28
I'm going to come out here and I'm going to think, okay, what is my trainer?
41:31
Therapist, trainer, vocal coach, trainer.
41:33
All these different people are trainers to help me become a the better best version of me.
41:37
Same way I would have done on the basketball floor.
41:40
And that's how I've decided to approach Yeah.
41:43
the pregame of business and, you know, being Dwyane. Yeah. No, I love that. What a great mindset.
41:50
And I I I love the analogy with the trainer.
41:52
That's such a such a brilliant way of thinking about it.
41:54
Uh Dwyane, I have to ask you this because, you know, you have a whole section here that in the book that's um dedicated to Kobe Bryant.
42:01
Uh we were I was fortunate enough to interview him on the podcast.
42:06
Uh you always said how much of a fan you were, how much you admired him.
42:10
You had a had a beautiful brotherhood with him.
42:12
Uh what was what was the biggest thing that you feel you took away or learned from Kobe consciously or unconsciously that you felt impacted you deeply till this day? You know what?
42:23
I think the the basketball side of it is watching someone who was has a God-gifted ability.
42:30
Like God blessed Kobe Bryant with so much ability.
42:35
But to be able to watch him work that ability. Yes.
42:40
Like that right there, I've seen a lot of people who has been gifted with just talent.
42:46
And they don't do anything with it from the standpoint of working their talents.
42:49
And so to watch him as an athlete really get the best out of all his God-given ability, I mean that's inspiring.
42:55
But for me, watching Kobe Bryant retire was probably the most impactful part of the whole journey.
43:03
That's for me, it hurt as having He was a leader.
43:06
Like I retired after him and I'm like, "Okay, I'm going to follow Kobe.
43:11
Like I'm going to see what he doing."
43:13
And and we all like to have those people to chase.
43:18
And so he was that person that we can look at and say, "You can You can retire differently.
43:21
You can do this differently."
43:23
He won an Oscar while while I think one or two years after retirement.
43:27
Like the things that he was a part of, the books that he was writing, the the the universe he was taking us in.
43:32
I mean the body armor of it all, it was amazing.
43:34
And so what I learned from him is that it is a another way to do it.
43:40
It is greatness after basketball.
43:44
And you do not have to wait on it. Yeah, absolutely.
43:46
I think And you know, and I see that you know, I remember when when I when I interviewed him, I remember he was so satisfied and peaceful and blessed in your words in retirement.
43:56
There wasn't a you know, there wasn't this feeling.
43:58
And I And I feel similar to you talking to you today like you're joyful in retirement. You're excited. You're passionate.
44:06
Like you know, there's there's not a a a loss of that from the loss of a part of your the biggest identity that you've played in your life.
44:14
Where does that come from for you?
44:17
Where is that uh starting from for you?
44:20
I see you today like, you know, we're laughing. There's passion. There's drive. There's ambition. There's great parenting.
44:25
There's all these things that you're inspired by and growing for.
44:28
And that shows me that even though you've let go of the longest part of your career identity, there's an identity beyond that.
44:37
Man, that was Thank you for that.
44:40
Um I I don't I don't You know what?
44:41
My my wife makes fun of me all the time.
44:43
She says that I every morning I flee out of bed.
44:49
I'm not I'm talking about covers back, go.
44:54
And and my wife is like, I don't understand it.
44:56
Why are you so happy in the morning?
44:59
And I'm like, because every every day I wake up, I get to create something.
45:06
I get to imagine something.
45:09
I get to inspire someone.
45:11
Like, I'm a I'm I'm a little black kid from inner-city Chicago.
45:16
And that just got me I just got a little emotional.
45:18
I can't Like, I'm a I'm a black kid from inner-city Chicago that that no one seen, no one gave a chance to.
45:25
And to be able to have that opportunity every day when I wake up, man, it's it's it's everything.
45:30
Jesus Christ, that right there is crazy.
45:36
You know, it's it's important. It's beautiful.
45:38
It It comes through in the book.
45:39
It comes through even more when I'm speaking to you today.
45:40
I've been watching all your other interviews.
45:42
And I love seeing someone who just is you know, sharing their blessing with so much grace.
45:49
And so, it's really powerful, Dwayne.
45:50
It's Someone get him a tissue on that side.
45:53
I would give you one if we were in person.
45:54
Man, Uh They they hit me.
45:57
I don't even know I don't even I don't think I've ever teared up on uh like besides winning the championship on TV on you know on any platform like this. Like it was that's real.
46:06
You know, I don't I don't I don't know how you know, people don't get a chance to talk to a lot of little black kids in the city of Chicago. They don't get a voice.
46:14
You don't get to hear their stories.
46:15
You know, you get to hear a little bit of oh, it's gang infested, drug infested.
46:21
Whatever the case may be, you don't get to really hear their stories, man.
46:22
And and it's not lost on me that I was that kid.
46:27
I can clearly remember little Dwayne. I can clearly remember.
46:33
And so man, I'm just thankful, bro.
46:35
I'm just really thankful for all the blessings.
46:39
But most importantly, just the people I get to share it all with.
46:41
To me, that's everything.
46:43
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46:49
I'm also excited to let you know that you can now get my book Think Like a Monk from thinklikeamonkbook. com.
46:57
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