finally I'm at a place in my career where I feel really confident it took me so long to get to this place is that the book that's the book the very first page it says radical optimism you kidding that's the first thing you wrote yeah like what was under there that's what I want to know like something I really want that is like that is that is cancelled that is a thought that has you're never going to
see that one again by writing these songs it's a form of therapy for me it's just such a vulnerable thing to do is write your thoughts down into Melody and then have it be consumed by other people that is the perfect description of what it is to be a true artist it's funny when we think about how the world greeted Dua when she first arrived the song sounded so big the performances
were so polished and people kept saying things like she's born to do it like a ready-made Superstar but what I learned when I sat down with Dua in London recently to talk about her latest album Radical optimism is that this has not been some predestined journey to greatness duer has pushed through enormous amounts of criticism and self-doubt where the story can be told and I think it's going to surprise you
we're doing a tell all this is my first time like talking about anything album title the record the songs individually it's a collaboration I always used to think when I first started doing this stuff that it was like I asked the questions and someone answered them and it was a simple trade and it's not it's actually a dance when it's done well it's a dance yeah it's a it's a it's a
give and take but it is um it's daunting in the beginning so I'm like I want to tell what it's about without and so much of all the songs um connect to the album and the title and I always said like sonically I wanted to experiment and do something different but what it was really about was the I guess the theme which is radical optimism it's a great album title thank you feels like a
relation to Future Nostalgia too it's it feels like a connection to it little bit of connection there I wouldn't say literally but it definitely has a feeling a similar feeling when you say it radical optimism and the and the way that I see it is this idea of rolling with the punches of not letting anything get you down for too long of always seeing the positive side of things of being able to
grow and move forward and change your perspective regardless of what's happening in your life whether it's heartbreak whether it's a friendship whether it's a relationship whether it's just growing um and seeing things you know differently I I think it's a big part of like maturing and growing up for sure because I went back I traced your story back in terms of the internet and stuff not just what I knew but what I
hadn't seen and the feda film had passed me by the first time around oh gosh yeah so I watched it and you know can you remember the first thing that you say in that film it's almost like the first thing you say to the world I haven't watched it in so long you say I'm scared that's the first thing you say I'm scared and I thought it was such an amazing and interesting vulnerable way
to begin your story on camera anywhere especially a place like feda where everyone's sort of puffing their chest out trying to kind of be on feta and you were like I'm scared yeah it's it's daunting it's nerve-wracking I think finally I'm at a place in my career where I feel really confident it took me so long to get to this place and I'm scared is exactly how I felt at that point in time
especially when I was putting out my first record I I felt like I was strapped a rocket had no idea what was happening eyes closed just jumping into whatever experience was thrown at me all I wanted to do was work all I wanted to do was write songs all I wanted to do was perform not really understanding all the other things that would come alongside um you know with my job I
never really thought about like for me when I was growing up and I was in the playground and I was like I want to make music or I wanted to sing in my head all I ever saw myself was being on stage as a performer and performance being the thing that I I always um envisioned that's such a pure ambition when you're a kid you don't think about everything that's going to come along with at that
moment no exactly and I never thought of the idea of uh being famous um so it is interesting as I'm like growing in the industry and seeing the different sides of it it's like okay what things do I keep for myself what things do I put out that's so funny you say that right as dilemma in some ways I had no inhibitions I was jumping in and experimenting and trying something new in some ways I was really scared
to or it just took me a while to find my voice to write things that were like they were personal to me but always en code never fully wanting to like put myself out there just because I felt like I needed to keep something for myself and with this album I feel like I've managed to put so much more honesty out there and be really uh open in a way that I don't think I've ever had the chance to I also
feel like uh when I was writing future Nostalgia whatever I wrote that day in the studio that's that was it that was like the end of the song you know maybe like a couple lyric tweaks here and there but it would that was the demo that I would then go and record um and finish whereas with radical optimism every single song that's on the album I've gone back in and I've Rewritten it and changed it and my perspective has
changed and my story has changed and the way that I saw different scenarios or different things that had happened in my life um shifted and it was it was a beautiful experience to not be afraid to be like actually you know what I am willing to put this out there there's this one song um which is the last song of the album called happy for you and I love that song because it to me you know
it's about seeing someone who you were with move on and be really happy for them and I probably wouldn't have been able to write that song you know on my first or second record cuz I don't feel like I probably would have grown as a as a person or as an artist to be able to see someone that you that you loved move on or I I would find it I would have found it like difficult or that maybe that there
was like a childlike you've been playing a part probably to some degree for sure it comes from the idea of of this Fantastical ambition to go and be something and often you start to achieve that before you you've even got to being it totally and so yeah you write them as a as a form of therapy whatever it is um in the moment but I I felt like I mean I definitely I've changed so much from who
I was in my first album to who I am now um emotionally and I've grown and I've matured and and I think you just find the sense of um happiness and optimism and this this kind of Carefree energy of what's meant for me is for me and I think perspective is something that I guess just keeps coming back perspective is an interesting word you know I I don't I don't think it comes naturally
to especially at this point in your life like what does perspective mean to you emotional maturity in away I think my job has given me the opportunity in so many amazing ways to I guess grow up before my time feel things completely differently experience the world in a different way and so I feel like emotional maturity has also come from the situations that I've been thrown in so in that sense perspective
is kind of gifted to you because you see things from so many different people's points of view and I think for me writing songs for a living I think about emotions and feelings and thoughts so much of how does this make me feel how will this make someone else feel when they hear it what is the energy and the emotion and the thing that I'm like trying to convey at this at this point
in my life and I think by writing these songs it's a form of therapy for me and I get emotional maturity and perspective from all those things that allow me to grow and move on which uh I'm just I'm so grateful for it's just such a vulnerable thing to do is write your thoughts down into Melody and then have it be consumed by other people is that the book that's the book yeah this is the book this is where all the ideas for
the CVSs fin exactly yeah I mean CVS is doing a pretty decent notebook right now I mean it's it's not it's not what was the first thing you wrote in it do you remember the first page the first thing the very first page it says radical optimism you kidding that's the first thing you wrote yeah so you knew right away that this was the album title and what it was going to be and you s it out
yeah it's uh that's crazy mean it's not crazy I guess but I mean I would have thought that that title would have maybe unveiled itself throughout the process but you began this book almost like a creative yeah I I knew I knew the title for radical optimism um it was it was like a a term that my friend told me I was doing an interview with him and he was like you know what the world needs
is radical optimism and I lived with that thought for so long and um it just it just became more and more prevalent as as time went on your handwriting is great look at your handwriting it's fourth of uh fourth of February is when I started your is like oh yeah okay four where in the your yeah oh yeah there it is yeah fourth of February was when I started writing and I have so many like
uh notes and letters and stuff and does it get really personal like I would never ask but but would you be trepidacious to let someone just rifle through that because there's things in there that I would there's also this thing of like you know every single song that I've written for this record is on here and not every single one is good so I feel like I always have to like write myself into a good idea so there's a lot
of scribbles there's a lot of songs that I'm like we'll skip that you know what I mean um yeah but there's also like some great songs that might never see the light of day that is just beautiful to have because it's it's like a a diary so how does a great song not get finished and released on r on radical optimism how does that not happen either I've lost connection to them in a in a
personal way or sonically I felt like it just didn't fit you know what I really love him when I when I see notebooks like this and I realize the people who are writing in them are treating each page almost like another piece of art like I like the way that you write down with the side here and it it doesn't feel yeah there's all they're all kind of like scribbled even the way you
scribble out is so like look at the way you scribble like what was under there that's what I want to know like something I really don't want that is like that is cancelled that is a thought that has you're never going to see that that thought has been cancelled that is brutal so 11th of July 2022 that was um my first session with Kevin danney Tobias and Caroline were you nervous in the room really nervous
yeah and excited but it was also like okay how are we all going to connect together in the room how's it all going to work and I sat here on the floor it was me and Caroline here Kevin started um right over there by the by the keys yeah and then in in the um in the soundproof room he went and played some drums Dany had a little desk here set up um Tobias was just like walking around
the there was just like a lot of energy a lot of things happening at the same is amazing for for just Conjuring things from the he's a Vib Smith he's a Vib Smith for sure and illusion was the first song we wrote wow um and that really kicked us off like I think when when we wrote that song it it also it also just gave us confidence as a group you know yeah yeah we're going to have fun that we're going to have fun it's
like okay if this is what we can get on the first day what can we get you know we were going to work together for for a week but on the next day after illusion I wrote happy for you oh you went right to the end yeah so that was 12th of July so second day you wrote the album closer yeah wow yeah I'm trying to think about how that must have felt emotionally in that moment did you know it was going to end
the album I didn't know it was going to end the album so it could have been the center of the it could have taken the album in a completely different direction yeah 1% a sad song It's a happy song but it's kind of a sad song but it's sweet but it's but it's happy I don't know I it feels like a real um it's a mat 180 maturing seeing almost like my ghost on the other side and
being like wow you've grown so much from an experience to be able to to see things from that perspective previous you would have written go yeah probably yeah but this it just I think also in terms of relationships like I needed to get to this place in order to find what I really needed you know you have to be in the act of forgiveness and growing and learning and being okay with the
past in order to move on with what's what's to come next so it's for me happy for you is a beautiful happy song because it's so reflective of my journey it's not all about happy for you though I mean that song These Walls yeah these walls okay so let me find that one one in a brilliant way I mean the concept the idea of being in a room where what is remains unspoken amongst two people is is not unheard of by the
materials in the room you know yeah all of like personifying the walls we got training season here yeah and then Houdini training season and Houdini were also written like a day apart so much energy there wow yeah oh you know what's interesting about this I can tell already that just the way that you're writing it is different to how you wrote the other ones it seems clear it's it's
clear it's clear this I know even like the things that I've scribbled out they're almost like yeah but it's interesting because it's like it's almost like you you had to be absolutely ready to write this because it's almost like dictating yourself when I when I see that yeah there's not as many like little scribbles your inner voice is ful flowing yeah yeah these walls this was 16th of January 2023 it was a good day
it was a good day um it was actually on the 15th of January the day before we were talking about you know these walls like if these walls could talk but it also felt like maybe it was a thing that was said so many times you know it's so it's such a cliche like oh if these walls could talk you know what would they say but I think um you can feel that energy I think if
if you know when you walk in a room and there have been two people who have been arguing or there's been upset there's a there's an energy there's a feeling there's a heaviness that you feel whether you like it or not and a lot of the time it's it's um yeah it's it's it's almost something that you can I feel it in the studios touch yeah 1,000% like whoever's been in there before or in it in the moment
whatever their feeling comes across in in the energy of and the state of the room these rooms they they they they capture things and they hold on to things and I mean I think that song is a really good example of like um you know addressing the inevitable yeah I was dialed in on this one I I uh I think it's um it's the inevitable it's that it's that conversation that no one really wants to have but you have to do it
someone has to just pull the plug and as painful as it is it's usually for for the right reasons you know for sure what's meant for you is meant for you and your gut instinct will always tell you when something's right we just don't want to listen sometimes exactly what was the last thing you wrote In the book and will it be the last thing you've written that you WR in that book the
last thing I wrote was the middle eight in um the song Falling forever and I think yeah that's looking like it's the last thing I've written amazing that you've been a falling falling forever Letting Go letting go of control that is like a classic example of of um appreciating in the moment what it was that you had to go through to make this record you knew it would it wouldn't be enough to go from
session to session and conjure it up from the atmosphere or the or from some magical place and then to record it wouldn't be enough like you approach this like a like a significant era in your life yeah I mean that's I mean it's a big my SAT return it's a big growing that's your set return that's my SAT return in yeah in a notebook surprised this thing isn't opening up the leaves
are flicking itself you know like some Poltergeist is about to come out and stuff I'm not done I have more songs no I'm done this chapter is like this chapter's this chapter's done it's I did so much I did so much growing I'm like I feel like that is my exorcism can I have one old man Boomer patronizing past you're not done there so much there's all going but it's a new chapter fine call it what you want whatever
whatever we'll be here we'll be here in tenous time with another Notebook on the table exactly we'll talk about that one I was thinking execution from any from anybody who's who's doing that is um the greatest gift because I think the creative part of it is the safe space this is a safe place when you in here for was it a year and a half a year and a half yeah yeah and you've earned the
right to take your time what a beautiful place to be able to be self-aware and to analyze how you're feeling and turn that into thoughts and Melody but when it comes out the execution on it I I think that is really the great gift when the artist actually decides to let it go and then we get it yeah the gift yeah well for me it's always you know this room in particular this has been yeah my home
and it's been my safe space this where you recorded the vocals right literally I did everything here here here and on this floor and on this table we had scribbles everywhere dancing around the room like everything happened here how do artists record vocals lying on the floor I still day not lying on the floor but I'd be sitting I've got videos of just like me with an sm7 I mean I I did
end up putting them on like a a telun in the end for the final vocals but there was some that we kept um from the original demo cuz I think it's just like the energy of doing things in the in the moment that that stayed this room has seen me through so many uh Seasons cuz you can see them we were joking about most studos you can't even see them exactly exactly I went
through the heat wve I went through the heat wave in London there was snow and rain and you know I was ecstatic and so happy and I was I was sad and miserable and some days I had write as block and some days I felt like um I I wasn't getting to the Crux of the the you know the real emotion that I was trying to convey and I don't feel like you take any of this for granted and I there was a quote I think from
your dad that said you have to work really hard to achieve a little bit of luck to get a little bit of luck and I know that you know your father was in a band and made music and I wonder whether or not which I so I'm assuming that was his dream his first love is to make mus yeah and then and somewhere along the line like many of us he moved into another part of life yeah still love
music but it wasn't the active thing anymore in that regard and so I wonder whether or not that experience how that impacted the way you approach your craft and your work ethic what having that that kind of advice from your father from inside that experience of being a musician but knowing how hard it is and knowing that just having a dream on the playground is not going to be enough no I don't know it's it's it's so
um I guess difficult to like pinpoint it to to a certain thing but seeing my parents' work ethic seeing them adapt to so many different things well that was I mean not that I saw them firsthand but when they left C because of the war that was happening in Yugoslavia to London they just grafted and they hustled and worked really hard and then you know I was I was born in '95 and I um I just
grew up watching them adapt to every kind of situation and that was I guess now I say it's inspiring to me but it was all I knew it was just what I saw them do and so I feel like that for sure rubbed off on me there was no kind of um this isn't going to work out option it was like things just had to happen things had to um there was no kind of plan B H you know and so I never wanted
to give myself another option um I just wanted to I just wanted to try and and push myself to the point it seems to me like your dreams were encouraged and and I mean who lets their kid go to London at 15 on their own I mean it's crazy yeah it's it's scary I I think about it I think about it a lot um but they had so much trust in me and dreams really were encouraged I think no dream
was uh was too big I mean I think that was always just like okay like what is that yeah we'll see we'll see I think that makes sense there's dreams but I think everything's also embedded in realism you know there there's kind of that's the work ethic though right the reality that like yeah okay if you want this you have to work really and you have to get straight A you cannot let your schooling slip yeah
well see me with school it was a nightmare because I I moved around so much I went from London to Kosovo and back to London so I was constantly again adapting and changing and and um I think that's what made me so adaptable that's maybe why touring is so fun for me cuz I can kind of move around and make anywhere home and cuz a lot of people say it's harder to make connections and relationships work when
you're moving around a lot but did it was it did it make you actually to your point more adaptable and able to read people and make friendships easier because of that I felt like being the new girl a lot forces you into those situations of I'm going have to just introduce myself I'm going to have to like try make the the the most of can we be friends let's have a conversation
being vulnerable 15 that's with friendships you have to give so much as well you have to be really open you have to put yourself on the line in order to also feel like someone else is going to give that back to you that's it's it's an exchange of of vulnerability of closeness and sometimes you get burnt because you vulnerable maybe with the wrong person and then you know they go
and tell someone else especially when you're a kid you know you get get your heartbroken all the time you're like I thought we were friends and you went and told my secrets and you know whatever that is but those situations kind of prime you for what whatever life throws at you and I think that's one thing that I guess if I can say that I I like about myself is the fact that I stay so openhearted that
regardless of things going wrong I don't allow it to shut me down maybe temporarily in the moment where I'm hurt or I have my guard up but I don't allow it in the long run to affect me in a way where I feel like I can't be myself or I I stop expressing myself because I I feel like that's a doubled sword that's also bad for me I think with every relationship with every experience you learn about yourself you learn about
things that are you know F to you what you expect what you should be ready to give as well I think again it goes back to that exchange of of vulnerability I think I've had uh relationships which have been really hurtful especially like earlier on like where I feel like I've been made to feel like not good enough or have made me lose my confidence and I've had to like find that again and
you learn about your own non-negotiables I think that's a that's an important thing it's like it's it's of course the right person but it's really about the right relationship and you find that in friendships and in love relationships as well of your non-negotiables what are you willing to give up like someone's like oh you know maybe you have an ick or something or you see that someone is
is disloyal I'm like that's a non-negotiable you know I I want someone who's like loyal and open and honest and that's what I'm willing to be as well in return you kind of figure out what those things are for you are there limitations to honesty sometimes for the sake of one's feelings are are are there situations where you have to walk that line in order to preserve someone's balance uh
yes and no I I I feel like going back to school um and going back to to to friendships and being adaptable when I've danced the line in order to not hurt someone's feelings even though I knew the truth or the the truth it always comes out and so yeah best of intentions don't always work it doesn't always work and so the way that I do things now in my life is very straightforward because if
I'm honest and I just say it how it is even though it might be uncomfortable in that moment I feel I have like a very clear conscience about it also saves time 1,000% so then you just lay your cards out on the table can I honest exactly exact CU time is a thing time and energy are the things that we take for granted so much as we start to develop our identity we think we have just just Untold time and Untold energy
you need to remove certain patterns of thought and behavior in order to make space to grow otherwise you're going to stay still stagnant yeah I complet I I completely agree with that for me it's also certain people I have I I've always had this thing that you especially on the basis of time people who have been around for a really long time you want to keep them around
you want to the Loyalty The loyalty you want to be there to nurture a relationship but some things aren't fruitful some things are really some things have had their time draining and they've had their time and it's a lot about learning to let go that's what it's all about and learning to let go control at the same time and and being free in in in the moment and it's only then when you can kind of start to see
things clearly it's like I can't control everything I don't know what's going to happen next I have to go on the basis of what feels good what feels like something that I really deeply connect with or someone who I really deeply connect with someone who I feel like I can see eye to ey to doesn't have to be someone who's exactly like me I think opposites or people who have very
different perspectives again is is important because you want someone who challenges you I think the act of Letting Go and Free Falling is sometimes the hardest thing to do that's it I don't know much about the meaning of life but I think it's kind of those two words there's freedom in letting go I think about this record about collaborators and and you said you know it's important that you have people
around you that kind of push you and and guide you into new territory and help you question where you are at certain moments so that you're suitably uncomfortable did the band as you call it do that did Did Tobias and Kevin Parker and Denny do that for you on this record yeah massively and and Band by the way in Carol it's a pretty good band I have to say we were all we were all here like um and and it all starts with
a conversation it's like you come into the room you're hanging out with your friends and you're just just having a tell all you know there was absolutely no holds B they knew all my secrets they knew everything that was happening um not that they were Secrets they were just things that I I I I feeling at the time you know the things that I was feeling at the time and it's that that
closeness that freedom that idea of like no there was no judgment I think that's the beautiful thing about the right relationships and friendships is the fact that you can really be yourself and I could really be myself in front of Tobias and Kevin Danny and Caroline and everyone's so different but the fact that everyone felt free to just be themselves is what I think
created such a beautiful energy in the room you can hear it from the minute you press play on the record I mean end of an era is one of the great pop album openers for me of a long time I mean it's got that beautiful cordal turnaround that's just just a bit off it's just a bit underworld it's just a bit house music it's just like it's just got that thing that makes you want to kind of keep moving with it
but it's um you know the vocal and the and the Really playful spoken word bit and it just it's kind of perfect way to start the record thank you so much I also thought to start it with a song titled end of an era makes total sense um it's good I also believe in you know uh manifestation and yeah big time and I and also you know when I'm in the studio writing I I think about these songs
being sung over a long period of time I think about people singing them I think of it like a mantra and I'm like if I'm going to say this over and over again it better be something good but be some some good feeling I want to bring something positive and oh you've got your set opener if you want it I mean from me but I mean you've got your dance party for 20 minutes and I said the same
thing to Troy who I know your good friends about rush and I was like look so how do you manifest cuz I mean let me re ask that question do you have an example you feel comfortable sharing where you know it's real like I do I've got situations where I know I've thought of something and it's like wow that actually happened and I just thought felt it right there's a lot of things
that sometimes I I say stuff and I go okay you be careful because that could happen um yeah but when uh when I was right WR my first album and I know this is going to sound mad but when I was uh writing my first album I was kind of having thoughts about my third album jumping one but I I thought that by the third album I would maybe be deserving of one working with ton paror and that was written down I had that in
my notes of like you know that'd be cool and I remember talking to my anr and my close friend Joe kendes and I was like yeah but I like great great first hour but album like maybe I could work with Kevin Parker can I insert something here at this point too from a timeline point of view which is that at that point Kevin Parker isn't really moving in a modern psychedelic beautiful pop space
he's still kind of it's still the T and paror experience yeah it's Tim it it's like uh currents was the was the record that completely shook me yeah and and you saw yourself in a situation with Kevin going we could work yeah and you know at that point delusion and or here now happened could be something else exactly so you never know so that was um that was something that I'd written down for album 3 and
another thing that I'd written down for album 3 was headlining glenbury which is so funny cuz at the moment that we're having this conversation I feel I'm going to get teary talking about it well let's go there cuz you know it's a it's a it's the right side of emotion it's a beautiful thing to be emotional about back in it 2017 he played the John Peele stage I thought that was such an amazing
performance I was living here so I wasn't at glastenbury I was watching it online like everyone else who couldn't be there wishing I was at glastenbury and I watched you come out and and thought okay do is having an incredible time in pop music right now the music is connected all the workers paying off watching you come out there and I I even remember you were wearing like almost like M loose Maharishi trousers or
something I think baggy yeah they were like baggy baggy trousers with like a pink fishnet top and I remember thinking wow okay she's playing at a really intense tent at a really intense festival for the first time and you crushed it it was like damn okay pop music's grown up because a year or two earlier than that I don't it would have been weird to think of an artist who was having that kind of run like you were
going out having that kind of moment and I feel like everything changed from that day for you yeah I mean glast andry is just the festival that the one I've Loved going just as a fan and to go up on that stage and perform I remember moments before I went on stage I looked out into the crowd I performed uh glasso twice and I looked out in the crowd the first time I performed I had
like a 12 15 or something slot on a Saturday terrible slot cuz people are partying all night on Friday like I don't know if anyone's going to show up it's a couple of old people with some PES of beer in their hand you know I me like I don't know if anyone's going to show up and I remember the first time looking out and there was some people but it was raining and I was like okay
you know it doesn't matter I'm just going to go out there by the time I'd gotten out on stage the whole place was full people were outside in their raincoats oozing out of the tent and I was like oh this is this is special like there's something happening and like people care and then the second time I played was when my first album came out and the same thing kind of happened I put my
head out just to see how many people were there and it was like just as I was about to go on and there really wasn't anyone and I was like ah like no one's going to come see it but again I just went do you know what it doesn't matter I'm going to get out and I'm just going to perform and I'm going to have fun and again by the time that I went out the whole thing was was full and I
incredible jumped out and and had the best time but it I I felt that by album three I'd be deserving of maybe you know a headlighting or something this I I feel I need to break the spell here and explain to everyone who's watching this that um by the time this comes out this this won't be news to anybody but for everybody in this room with the exception of us and a couple of people who are watching in the
monitors at the back this is news cuz this hasn't been announced yet no so I'm not going to announce it like yeah this is the first time youve said it out loud right it's the it's the first time I've said it out loud um but this is the first time I've said a lot of things out loud this the first time in this room I haven't yet even announced my album title and so I'm like I'm talking to you
about it it's uh it's all it's all very surreal I uh yeah it's it's just can't even it it's my it's my biggest dream you got to say it you got my biggest dream I'm headlining Glen on the Friday night Zane now it's manifested now it's real it's real it's real and the crazy thing is is I amazing when I'm in the studio and I'm writing my the first thought that comes into my mind is what is this going to sound like at
glastenbury like it's that's it's the Pinnacle for me yeah cuz you've seen it it's the most Human Experience any Festival can ever create it's not just about the size of the crowd or what it sounds like or anything else it is a proper Humanity based experience it's like people come there to be to be with each other for sure and to experience something that is that is the purpose of
that celebration right no for me it's a it's it's the most beautiful like um experience that I've ever had but seeing other people the connection the community the the love the feeling that everyone shares where they just come together to have a good time there's such a sense of Freedom there um what what happened did you get the call did Emily call you like yeah I I I got I got an email at the end of my future
Nostalgia tour wow I've known for a little while for a minute it's been the biggest secret because yoube Secrets good wow biggest secret ever but it's um working on on radical optimism it's been that thing of like and actually I I didn't even tell the band until we were coming towards the end of the writing and I was just like I'm going to perform quite a few of these songs on the record at
glasto and um I'm going to be headlining and I think everyone was just like I think they felt the energy yeah um yeah they were like I'm so glad we put all the if in these songs there that fuel me in a different way to make this of course cuz you have the destination and you know that there's going to be that moment being in here making this music and deep down in your mind you're just
think what going to look like on stage yeah every time I think about performing these songs it's like a A Rush of electricity going through my body hear it on the record you can hear it on the record for sure will will the any of the band show up for the shows or they Studio I can't win like that now maybe maybe that'd be amazing wow what a great experience it's going to be something else um you know I think about
the the journey you've been on up to this point now um your third album manifesting these amazing experiences into reality Glaston bre Toc all these great things and I I think about what an interesting life you've built for yourself outside of just music and the way that you appre appreciate the idea of self ownership and i r afraid to take responsibility for decisions across
multiple verticals in life um your newsletter your podcast um getting back the ownership of your music yeah I got to talk about that because I'm really obsessed with artist ownership um I've experimented in other areas where I've co-owned things or tried to and it never felt really great to me it's not easy getting control over your your catalog like that and over over your songs like
that can you tell us a little bit about how you did that and what it's meant to you to know that those songs now are under your stewardship I guess in in some ways I started in this industry fairly young I was learning the ropes as I was going into it um I knew what I wanted out of my job a lot of it revolved around performing you know like I said like that was just my idea of my career and I guess along the way you
kind of understand that the music industry is also a business yep and how the I guess just growing in it understanding it differently reading the small print as an artist you just want to stay in the creative Lane you want to just be like I just want to make my music that's all I care about I think about you know the business side of it but it is at the end of the day and I
had to start paying attention yeah to that I think again another part of growing up is just uh relying on yourself more wholeheartedly and being like I want to be in control of my career I want to know everything that's happening it was just important for me to have everything under one bracket like I want to be my own business I want to own all my music I want to have my own like production company that will do
things you know under this thing that I've called radical 22 which is a management company which I do with my dad and bus yeah which is great because we have such an open dialogue I think that also goes back to the early trust that I've had with my my parents and I've never felt more in control of my career he represents your interest brilliantly I tell you because I've asked him he's like well I can ask
her yeah that's the line and it's the right line he's but it's it's just like that like it's it's this constant open dialogue which is incredible and it was really what I needed in order to do the things that I love and so acquiring my publishing was uh was a big step and something that I've I've been wanting for for a long time and um also I just I I just wanted to be separated from
uh I guess another entity I wanted to be Everything Under One Roof they're your songs yeah they your songs I wanted to be the decision maker on what happens with them and uh where they find a home and you know what what what happens next I think all those things are important but I think I I I want to be the decision maker what what was the turning point for you when you when you came to that
realization that um being a part of the industry wasn't enough for you that you ultimately wanted to build your own Foundation it's funny everything kind of trickles back from when I was younger like now talking about service 95 when I was 15 and I just moved back to London from Kosovo I started this blog and it was called do a daily and it I would just like random ramblings and it would
be recommendations or how I made the Smoothie or what I was wearing or the music I was listening to or whatever it was for fun or did you deep down know even then that this was important it was fun it was it was purely for fun it was another way of me expressing myself it was something that I loved and um I think it just kind of came back to that like music is my life it's it's what I
do it's the way that I have this creative Outlet in a big way but it's not the only thing that defines me and it's not everything that I am um and so so yeah service 95 was another way of me being able to put in all my other interests and being able to commission different stories one thing that I've been lucky with is like the Curiosity Gene I've always wanted to learn new things I always want to like dive in and
you know find out about a book or find out about what's happening in different parts of the world and um I think that interest and that Curiosity has made me want to do it on a a bigger bigger scale I love your podcast and I love how you frame your questions they're so direct it's awesome and I and I think you get a lot out of people because of it thank you it's more than an exchange it's a
dance it's a dance it's been eye opening for me also what I've realized is when I do um long form interviews I can really dive in deeper and I really enjoy that and that's something that I enjoyed uh with the podcast I feel like I have more time to express myself more time sometimes my thoughts take on their own little life and as I'm speaking them then I'm like oh it all makes sense
that's what I mean you know it's having that space and I I feel like you provide a beautiful space and and I feel like I can really talk about my experiences freely and I think that's the that's the key it's it's much easier than when everything's you know bite-sized or you have these five minute interviews and you can never really quite get to the N minutes exactly it's quick it's like
bite size so um that kind of um changes the feeling but this is these are the things that I live for like these deep conversations I love I love that will you keep going will you keep doing it yeah I will man so much research goes into it time goes into it so it's a lot of like you know you have to I listen to all their other podcasts and watch the documentaries and read the book and you know all before I have to
interview them so who are you most nervous before you spoke to cook get out of here I swear I was so nervous cuz I I didn't know what to expect yeah you know I mean I think I'm allowed to say this although we're very careful about how we took talk about our inspiring and earthw leader but he's awesome he is he's he's amazing and and he was so um easygoing and and fun and had a light energy Tim
is you know if he shows up he wants to do it cuz he doesn't have and he came to the house he came to mine to hang out it was it was lovely we had had a great time and he made me feel at ease uh I hope I think I made him feel at ease who surprised you who was the one in conversation that that went there to places that you really felt you weren't expecting and you you emerged from it
feeling different than when you started know I've had so many conversations that I feel like I've been spoiled with um spoiled by surprise I think I I leave a lot of them quite moved but speaking to Brian Stevenson M uh the civil rights lawyer who helps get people off death row that was an unbelievably moving conversation I think one where I've left feeling so grateful one for him but also seeing
like the kind of people we have in the world that are so selfless so giving so dedicated to other people I um I found him just incredibly moving I think as a overall but even speaking to someone like Monica Lewinsky and seeing all the work that she had to do after being what patient zero of the internet you know the first person to get the first dragged MH online and the effect that that had and
how she's now changed it into trying to help other people after what she you know people always say oh history will be kind to that person or history won't be kind to that situation but the internet doesn't wait around to find out and that's the thing that's most unsettling for me is that when opinion gets formed there it's like well no one's going to let history figure this
out over time or give it the context in the moment that it deserves to create proper discourse to to actually identify the nuances of what's going on here and figure it out it's just thrash like I don't know how you grew up on it to some extent yeah I grew up I grew up with it um which maybe G gave me a little bit different cuz I felt like maybe I had a bit more control over it in some ways I think more about the
younger generation where it's just there and people have already created such an identity with it and how you present yourself and how important it is your social Persona like I think while I was growing up with it it was still silly a lot of random pictures on Facebook and in you know it was constantly evolving and I was growing with it it's definitely a a a a love hate relationship ship again it's like that
that given give and take but it's so relentless I think and so unforgiving um and so insatiable to your point in terms of what we expect from the people we admire I think it's got to be hard when you find your voice use it and then people want to hear it yeah to sometimes project with it in ways that you know are going to be really rewarding for you I I think it's got to be really tough
being someone inspiring these days I think it's got to be hard to know what you can and can't say I think you stand up for things that you believe in and and service 95 being an example of that and and I've always and I mean this you know in a really caring way hopefully it comes across that way I've always watched you kind of go I don't know how to respond to that and we just got there
again because I think it's tough I think it's there's not even a question there I can leave it at that I I think what you do with Sunny Hill even just something as simple as putting a festival on and then going back home and giving people a reason to celebrate and dance and listen to music the way I like to think about it and the way I decide to speak up on anything I'm like I hope that this is
for the greater good of more than just one person you know um and it's a fine line I never want to alienate anyone I never want to make anyone feel bad I never want to you know create any kind of um I don't deeper pain than there already is I guess in the world by what I choose to say yeah it's just I think what I go on is I feel like this is something beneficial and I hope that
people see that and see the the intention you know when I speak up about things it's interesting when when you're a musician or especially a female pop star people go like just shut up and just sing your songs you know they don't want you to have a have an opinion or have something to say I think it that people are very uh much used to maybe another air of mystery behind the artists that they like so then your
thoughts or your beliefs or whatever aren aligning with what they want you to be the very nature of that statement from from from anyone's point of view and direction of the artist is conditional it's like we want you to be available under conditions right yeah and it's be what I want you to be and not who you are kind of ownership yeah and I and and as a fan I can relate to that but at the
same time as I'm having more conversations in this space with artists like yourself who are like I'm not really built like that yeah I'm realizing that that trade is outdated for sure and some people are going to let you down and and some people you know are going to lift you up and you're going to feel even more connected to them but I think one thing that we all have to remember is each of us have our
own identity each of us have our own thought process each of us are also figuring all out no one has the answers we shouldn't be putting anyone on a pedestal of like this person is you know they know everything because they can let you down in a heartbeat you never know course but um I think you know for me it's just like I'm just going to say what I feel from the heart and try and especially you know
with service 95 it's like whatever Stories We Tell whatever you know articles we Commission it's like who gets to tell those stories I don't want to tell them all from a western lens I want it to be Global I want it to be from all over the world so it's like you know crafted in a way that everyone's heard and things are seen you know from from everyone's perspective and I think that is that's really uh
that's really important is uh is that fine line what role does criticism play in your life now how do you apply it in a way that's healthy well it's interesting I think everything comes in in stages and waves uh there can be a moment where people really like love you and you feel so supported and you're like oh this is great you know especially in the beginning I was doing interviews and people like how do you
deal with hate and I'm like I don't get any hate like it's great you know and then that changed really quickly yeah um and I I remember even when it was like uh Grammy's best new artist nomination and I'd won it and there was people online being like she's not deserving of it she's got no stage presence she can't do this she's not well equipped to she's not even you know she she she won't be
here next year she won't be here next year there there was a lot of that that fueled me in a way um I try and not use criticism is like this like Revenge why not thing it does push juice it's the best few juice is really good it's the best so I think um you know whenever I I uh see or feel or read anything that that goes against what I know is is coming or what I've been doing or how hard I've
been working or whatever it is um I just kind of take a step back and I just go okay none all of this is background noise and I should just stick on my path because every time someone has doubted me I've proved them wrong and for me I'm like this is fueling me this is like pushing me to be better to to work hard and um I get a real kick out of proving people wrong boom boom there it is