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I think delusion is maybe ignoring red flags.
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Like, "No, no, it's going to be fine." What are you doing?
0:03
Why are you not listening?
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Those mistakes and those red flags actually are really great gifts.
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Afterwards, you're like, "Oh, I needed to learn this."
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Entrepreneur Alli Webb, the co-founder of Drybar, a $100 million empire. I've had this shame.
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I didn't want to be divorced once, and now I'm heading into divorce twice.
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Can I be in love with a person and myself and what I'm doing?
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I haven't been able to figure that out yet.
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Before we jump into this episode, I'd like to invite you to join this community to hear more interviews that will help you become happier, healthier, and more healed.
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It means the world to me.
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The best-selling author and host of the number one health and wellness podcast, On Purpose with Jay Shetty.
0:59
Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world, thanks to each and every one of you that come back every week to listen, learn, and grow.
1:06
Now, you know that our community's all about becoming happier, healthier, and more healed.
1:11
And whether it's your career, whether it's your relationships, whether it's your personal life, we try and focus on all aspects on On Purpose.
1:19
Today's guest is someone who's excited to share with us what I believe is the truth, and it's called The Messy Truth.
1:27
Alli Webb, who I'm going to tell you about in a second.
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This book is all about how she sold her business for millions, but almost lost herself.
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The Messy Truth is available right now.
1:39
We're going to put the link in the caption, so you can order it while you're listening to this conversation.
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And for those of you that don't know, Alli Webb is the founder of Drybar, New York Times best-selling author, Canopy President, co-founder of Squeeze, Brightside, and Beckett & Quill.
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In 2010, Drybar exploded into a nationally recognized and highly sought-after brand, growing to over 150 locations and highly successful product line, which sold for $255 million in 2020.
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Staying true to Alli's signature approach to beauty and self-care, Squeeze followed suit as an innovative massage concept.
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Alli joined forces with LA-based jewelry designer Meredith Quill to build yet another company now known as Beckett and Quill.
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Most recently, Alli joined the Canopy team as president.
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And I'm excited to talk to Alli because we bumped into each other recently at a soccer game, football game, uh for Angel City FC.
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Please welcome to the show Alli Webb.
2:41
Alli, thank you for being here. Thank you.
2:43
Thanks for that introduction.
2:45
Of course, you have to live it all, as I always tell my guests.
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And and I love this, you know, the title of your book just immediately captured my attention because I couldn't agree more that every success story is underpinned by the messy truth.
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And we often don't hear about the messy truth, we often don't see the messy truth.
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Sometimes we don't even want to know about the messy truth, we'd rather believe in the facade or the beauty or the perfection or the perfect image that we see.
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And I'm really glad that you're sharing this.
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So, I have lots of things I want to ask you from the book today.
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I highly recommend everyone goes and buys the book, especially if you're on your entrepreneurial journey, maybe you want to be an entrepreneur, you're thinking about it, and you're thinking about how do I figure out all of this stuff?
3:30
So, so let's start with this idea, Alli, that a lot of our audience, a lot of our community wants to be entrepreneurs. Yeah.
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They may already be entrepreneurs.
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Some of them are struggling, some of them are winning, some of them are still figuring out what they're even going to do.
3:47
What is the messy truth about starting that no one tells you about starting specifically.
3:52
Well, you know, I think that we live in a generation now where we are finally at the point, which wasn't the case when I was starting out, where it is accessible to get to hear what's really going on.
4:03
There's so many panels and so many conferences where, you know, entrepreneurs are talking about more of the real stuff, which I'm super grateful for.
4:10
Like I said, 13 years ago when we started Drybar, that didn't exist.
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Like nobody was talking about anything.
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You know, you didn't have access to founders or CEOs the way you do now.
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And it's such a beautiful thing that there's podcasts like this and there's places where people who are thinking about starting a business can go.
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Like I have a mastermind that's launching next week where it's like for entrepreneurs.
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Like there's so much access out there now.
4:30
But, you know, I think there is still understandably so, it's like I mean, everybody wants to look good and everybody wants to like show their best side.
4:41
And for me, it's like I I've always just been drawn to the like you know, the realness.
4:48
And maybe it's because I've always been a bit of an underdog.
4:51
You know, I mean, starting from the time I was like a kid, my my older brother, Michael, who's my business partner in Drybar, you know, he was like the overachiever in our family.
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Like very, you know, kind of more book smart and just, you know, was kind of either always in trouble or always doing something really amazing.
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There wasn't really a lot of in between.
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And I was kind of a bit of a wallflower, which if you know me now, that is not my personality at all.
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But back then, I was just kind of observing my brother in trouble or doing something great.
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I grew up in this with this like I was just in the background.
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And I think that as as I've gotten older, I have felt like more wanting to, you know, talk about, you know, my story and like how I was like a like a bit of an I think I have a chapter in the book called like the unlikely entrepreneur, something like that.
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I should probably know all the chapters in my book.
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But but I I've always considered myself like kind of this underdog and like not who you'd expect to succeed.
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expect to succeed. and I think I've guess I've I feel I've felt called to shine light on that because there are a lot of us out there, you know, and I don't have a traditional path and I think that at one point it was like there was this societal like
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you have to go to college, you have to have a business degree if you want to start a business and now, you know, there's so many I've spoken at so many colleges that have entrepreneurial programs which I'm like I always get a chuckle out of because I'm like I didn't even go to college. Like do you want me
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Like do you want me to not mention that, you know?
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But I think it's just good to show that like you can find success and have success no matter who you are, whether you went to college, didn't go to college, like graduated high school, didn't graduate, whatever, you know?
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So I've I've just felt really drawn to that kind of like underdog, like the person that you just wouldn't expect, you know, to be successful and so I try to, you know, highlight that.
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And there's good there, too, and there's a lot of things that I am, you know, I am really good at, but showing like a peek behind the curtain to people that it's not I mean we I think any entrepreneur who's listening to this knows it's not easy. Of course it's not easy.
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I feel like I just want to talk about and highlight more of the hard stuff than just the good stuff, you know?
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Cuz it's it's completely a mixed bag.
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It's not one or the other.
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It's usually like 1 minute to 1 minute.
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Like you're like, "Oh, this was amazing."
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and then you're like, "The whole thing's falling apart, you know?"
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I mean it's literally like that crazy.
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So my mission with the book was like to highlight both.
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Like it it's really amazing and it's the greatest journey and it's also incredibly hard and taxing and like you don't realize how much it's going to change your life.
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And I don't I think it's good that you don't know that, you know?
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I'm a little bit of like the ignorance is bliss mentality because I feel like the less you know about what you're getting yourself into.
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And I think just that whole mindset of like if you can accept you don't know what you don't know, you go into things a little like not as freaked out, Yeah. you know?
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Well, in the book you go into in detail.
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Give us a snapshot for everyone who's listening of what your life looked like when you even thought about starting this because that will give us a picture of this underdog unlikely entrepreneur.
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Yeah, I mean, you know, I got married to my first husband when I was 26.
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I moved to New York City when I was 18 cuz I didn't want to go to college and and I was like, I'm going to move to New York City.
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I feel like that will be good college.
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And that's what I did and I you know, I jumped around from job to job and I would eventually go to beauty school and I and so Florida and then I moved back to New York and and then I got married and moved to LA and had two babies and was like thought I had like hit the jackpot.
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Like I loved being able to be a stay-at-home mom.
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I really felt so blessed and lucky that I got to be home with my boys and I was home for like, you know, about 5 years before I started Drybar and that was such an amazing time, but I did get that itch to get back out there and start doing something for myself, which was really just like a feeling that I had.
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I mean, I really wanted to have kids and I really wanted to be a stay-at-home mom and part of me thought I'd get really involved in the school and stuff like that and as I kind of approached that, I was like, "No, I don't think I want to do that."
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And not there's no right or wrong, right?
8:43
It just wasn't for me and I've always really trusted my gut and my feeling and I and I I stay very close in to what feels right.
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feels right. And I and after staying home with my kids, it was about they were about two and four when I started Drybar and about a year before we started Drybar, I got that kind of itch to do something and I started a mobile
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blowout business, which was again just like a way to get out of the house for a few hours, get away from my kids who I loved love loved the whole thing, but just wanted to do something for myself and I knew having done hair for so many years that I could do that pretty easily. I also,
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I also, you know, had this like intuition on that that if I were to only charge $40, which was like, "Oh, two 20s, super easy.
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I'll come over while your baby's sleeping." That was it.
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You know, that maybe that would be fulfilling for me to get out of the house, talk to adults.
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I mean, that's the other thing is like when you have two little kids and you go to the park all day and you're you're in like Kidville all day, I just I wanted a little bit of a break from that and not just from my husband.
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So, I started this and it was so perfect at the time and I remember telling people that.
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Like I remember it was I mean it was 15 years ago, but it feels like yesterday cuz I was like, "Oh, it's great. I love this."
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Like I'm getting out into the world.
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It was a great way for me to meet other women and I would it also informed a lot of the things that we would eventually instill in Drybar like not doing someone's hair in front of a mirror cuz I was doing their hair in their living room.
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And so, it was just perfect at the time.
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I wasn't really making any money, but I didn't I've never been like driven by money.
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So, I was like, "I'm just happy to do this and make a little extra cash.
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I go and do this thing that I really love doing.
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I get to talk to these amazing women."
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And it was kind of like wildfire.
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I, you know, women would tell their friends and then their friend group and so it would just grow and grow, which which is eventually why Drybar came to be because I was getting so busy operating this mobile business by myself that I was like, "I think I need to start having them come to me instead of me come to them."
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And that's really how Drybar was born, but I was just this like one-woman show driving my Nissan Xterra around LA with a like a duffel bag full of tools and hairspray.
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And, you know, it's funny cuz it's like I remember it so well.
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Like could could have never guessed it would turn into the life that I have now.
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I mean, not in a million years.
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I was just happy to be out of the house for a couple hours, you know.
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Thank you for sharing that.
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I know you probably had to share that so many times, but it.
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I wanted you to because I just I mean, to me I'm hoping that so many people are listening and watching going "That's me, Alli, right?"
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Like I'm someone who like I I love my family, but I I want to do something.
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I have this instinct that I have something inside of me.
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I don't know what it quite is yet or by the way, I'm doing something on the side and my friends all tell each other that I'm good at it and I I think I could build something, but I'm not sure.
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Like, what was it that made you feel this is real and it could be bigger versus actually this is great and it fulfills my needs of getting out the house and giving me a little bit of extra cash.
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Cuz what you could argue that already felt like success, and it can be success for a lot of people.
11:52
What was it for you that said, "No, this should be bigger.
11:54
I can be bigger and I want it to be bigger." Yeah. Yeah.
11:58
Well, it's funny how and I'm sure you've experienced this, too, when you're doing something and it feels really right, and then there's like these rumblings and this like inner knowing of you're like, "Wait a second.
12:08
I might be on to something here."
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And that's really how I started to feel because I realized I was saying no more than I was saying yes.
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And I was like, you know, scratching my head going like, "I'm getting so many calls."
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And I was pretty good at what I was doing.
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And so I was like, "There's got to be something else here."
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And And at the time, my kids were really little.
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And my mom, who passed away 8 years ago now, but she was We used to move her everywhere we moved, like in an apartment down the street, and she loved being near my kids.
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And so that was really helpful, and she was, you know, in our lives.
12:38
And I remember being like, I I wonder what would happen if if we had a location, one location.
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You know, I'm like, "My mom could help.
12:45
I could get my kids after, you know, preschool, like around 3:00 or 4:00.
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I think I could still make this work."
12:51
And And again, still thinking pretty small, you know, that like, "Let me just go from like the next step from going to people's homes to like opening a store."
13:02
And it And it was so exciting, you know?
13:04
And it was just like I tell people this all the time that you know, if you're chasing the money, like I mean, maybe that works sometimes.
13:11
In my experience, most businesses that I know of, like it's like you're chasing something that you love.
13:17
And I never I never thought about selling the business.
13:20
I never thought about making a ton of money.
13:21
I was like, I never even thought about money.
13:23
We didn't I mean, for years I didn't take much money as a salary from Drybar.
13:26
I just loved it, you know?
13:29
And I And And when you you know this, when you love your passion and like the thing that you It's And you get to do it every day, you know?
13:34
It's like I just felt like this is the coolest thing ever.
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thing ever. And I couldn't believe like you know, we first opened Drybar and so many people were coming and and and and you know, again, it was like it just felt so meant to be because this mobile business that I had built and these women that I had come to know in LA and some of them were like I mean, it's LA, you know, it's like
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producers and actors and celebrities and like you know, I was a little thrust into that world and and you know, beyond like the celebrity, just you know, there was just so many women who were really connected and when I started talking to my clients, which by the way were the first people I talked to about Drybar, I was like, "What do you think of this idea?" And they're like, "Oh my god,
14:11
And they're like, "Oh my god, it's the best idea ever, but how do you make it work?"
14:14
And there was like certainly naysayers, but it was such a cool, exciting opportunity and to have women like being like, "You should totally do this." Yeah.
14:20
And we opened that first store and it was so busy and crazy and I and I just was I loved every second of it, you know, I couldn't get enough of it.
14:29
That's such a I I love that and I want to pull from it for our listeners.
14:33
So, something Alli said that stands out to me is this idea of she was taking baby steps.
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It was just about the next step.
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It wasn't like I've come across a a million-dollar idea, a hundred million.
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It wasn't like this crazy thought process.
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It was like, "I do something, it makes me happy, clients are happy, let's get a store."
14:49
And I think sometimes we kind of go from, "Well, I have a really good idea, it should be a million-dollar business, a billion-dollar business, or whatever it may be."
14:59
And we don't get that next step right.
15:02
So, that's one thing I want to share.
15:03
The second thing that really stood out in what you said is you asked the people you were serving, your clients, Mhm.
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for what they thought of the idea.
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A lot of us ask our friends, we ask our family, we ask people around us who don't actually know how skilled we are at this thing. Right.
15:19
And we're not asking the people who are actually going to be our potential clients.
15:22
And so the fact that you are asking them and they were saying, "Oh, I'd turn up there.
15:25
Oh, I'd recommend all my friends. We're in."
15:27
That's a much better person to talk to when you're sharing a new idea.
15:32
What's the difference, Alli?
15:34
Because you've talked about now and in the book you talk about this idea that you've always been pretty decisive, but more deeply when you go into it and and I know you have a have a have a deeper side to you.
15:45
And when you're thinking about things like intention and intuition and instinct and you said, "I always knew like I was always listening for that inner voice."
15:55
What is the difference between intuition and delusion?
15:59
If you had to think about how you notice the difference, what would that be for you?
16:04
I think intuition is like versus delusion cuz I feel like I'm well acquainted with both of them. I mean that's good.
16:12
Yeah, because like delusion is like something to me at least how it lands for me is like something that's like you know, a a delusional view back then of Drybar would have been like we're going to grow this thing to 150 locations and we're going to sell it for $255 million.
16:29
Although I did say early on that I thought we would have but not early.
16:32
Like in a year in I was like I think we're going to sell the business for $250 million. Isn't that crazy?
16:34
I I mean I feel like I manifested that.
16:37
I think it kind of goes back to what you're saying about baby steps.
16:39
It's like it we're doing ourselves a disservice of you know, moving in this like you know, in a delusional path I I think I would say, you know, versus like saying close in.
16:51
And you know, and I have gotten very into spirituality in the last few years and one of my very best friends and and I talk about her in the book.
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Her name is Paige and I always say I'm riding her spiritual coattails cuz she's always in Dallas in some retreat and you know, I'm just kind of like trying to pick it up of what she's doing and and she always says to me stay close in.
17:11
You know, and and you have to really think about that and like what that means and it's like, "Oh."
17:13
For me anyways, it means like pay really close attention And I've really started to think about that more and more, especially having had a, you know, rough couple months recently.
17:22
It's like, how does this make me feel in the moment?
17:26
And I don't think I ever could have articulated that the way I can now.
17:27
And I think we get older, we're wiser, we go through more things, we read more books, we do all the things.
17:32
I meditate a lot more now. I do all that stuff now.
17:34
And and I pay really close attention.
17:36
I don't think I did the way I do now back then.
17:41
But I think I had it instinctually in me.
17:43
I just didn't know how to like pick up on it, you know?
17:46
Whereas like now, I can I can almost like I can read something or have a thought and like immediately get a ping in my body of like, no, this does not feel good.
17:55
Or get a like, oh yeah, this feels really good. It's fascinating.
17:59
And and and the thing is, and I'm sure you, being who you are, would agree with this.
18:04
It's like, if you get really quiet and you pay attention to that stuff, it's pretty clear.
18:07
You know, I have definitely been known to purposely ignore red flags in situations, which have gotten me into some bad situations.
18:17
And it's It's really funny the awareness that we get as we get older and wiser and we make some mistakes and we learn from them.
18:24
And so I I guess, you know, delusion is like I think delusion is maybe ignoring red flags.
18:29
You know, it's like, no, no, it's going to be fine.
18:31
Besides the fact that like you know it's not, but you're going to It's like, what are what are you doing?
18:36
Why are you not listening?
18:37
I heard something um Brené Brown said, I'm sure she's been on the show. She has not. No, no, no.
18:43
Oh, you have to have her on. She's amazing.
18:45
And she was really there for me in my first divorce, which is crazy.
18:46
But she um I just saw something recently where she was like, every every once in a while the universe taps you Or maybe not every once in a while.
18:55
When you get to mid-age, the universe like taps you on the shoulder and is like, you can't run anymore.
18:59
And I was like, is she talking to me? You know?
19:01
And it But it was it's a fascinating thing cuz I think at some point in our lives, and it seems to me like it's more mid-life, you get that tap and you're like, yeah, I got to I got to be really like I got to pay attention to what's happening.
19:16
Like I you just can't you just can't get away with it anymore.
19:17
You know, and I think as we're when we're younger, we can.
19:21
I don't know why that is, and I think maybe we're just ignoring the red flags and thinking it could just all work out.
19:27
And I'm such a like it all works out kind of gal anyways, which I think is true.
19:32
And now I'm I've come to realize that those mistakes and those red flags and the things that we don't pay attention to when we should actually are really great gifts. Not in the moment.
19:42
In the moment you're like, why is this happening to me?
19:43
But then afterwards you're like, oh, I needed to learn this.
19:47
You know, again, my friend Paige always says it's the medicine.
19:49
You know, she's like, this is the medicine that you need.
19:52
I'm like, it's always about the medicine, you know, but it's really true. Yeah, absolutely.
19:55
Thank you for Thank you for doing that thought experiment with me. Interesting delusions.
20:00
I really love your take on it. Yeah. It's good. your take on it.
20:04
I want to pick out some moments from your book because I love some of the quotes in your book and things that stuck with me.
20:10
And so, I'm going to start with this because it really, you know, enhances the conversation we're having right now about your work.
20:16
And you says, this is page eight.
20:19
Though entrepreneurs today face different challenges, more noise, more competition, etc.
20:23
, it still always starts with you, your idea, your skill set, your purpose, and your gut instinct.
20:30
And you say, what is the thing that you just can't stop thinking about? Which which I love that.
20:36
I love that language to it.
20:37
But you talk a lot about this finding your skill set as an entrepreneur.
20:42
And I think there could be nothing more true about than that.
20:45
Like I'm I'm so aligned with you, and I think often we're doing things we're passionate about that we're not skilled at.
20:52
Or if we are passionate, we haven't thought that we need to be skilled at it.
20:56
And obviously you could be doing the opposite, where you're doing something you're skilled at that you're not passionate about, sure, and that's what a job is pretty much.
21:02
But how do people discover what they're skilled at?
21:07
Because what I found is that most of us, when we're skilled at something, we devalue it as a skill, because it's so easy to us.
21:15
And we see someone else with another skill, and you talk about this a lot in the book about don't become someone else's story, don't chase another entrepreneur, don't try and Yeah, yeah. imitate.
21:24
But we look at someone, so for example, people will look at me and be like, "Oh, Jay, like you're really good at XYZ."
21:30
But then if I'm not aware of that skill set, I'll be like, "No, no, no, but you're really good at ABC."
21:35
And then we play this kind of tag of like, "No, I don't have your skills."
21:40
But we rarely sit and go, "No, I'm actually really good at that."
21:42
Um because we devalue what we find easy. Yeah, that is so true.
21:48
I think it was really highlighted in in my business with my my brother and my first husband, Cam, who Cam was the creative genius behind Drybar, and my brother was like more of the behind-the-scene business side of it, and I was like, you know, the hair stylist and like the experience.
22:03
And everybody always asks us like, "Is it really hard to work with your brother and now ex-husband?"
22:08
And that's not why we got divorced and whatever, but I was like, "No, it was great, because we were all very clear on what we did and what we did well, and what our highest and best use was."
22:17
I had that conversation so many times.
22:19
They still I still go back to that, what's my highest and best use, always in life, because I think it's like really like think about it, you know?
22:27
And we had really almost no conflict.
22:29
And if we ever I mean, we all talked about all things together, but if there was ever like um a questionable thing, it whoever would decide was like whose lane that was, you know?
22:37
And that was we were all very okay with that.
22:39
And I think when you do run into problems with business partners, it's often because you guys think you have the same skill set, and then that's such a It's like five-year-olds playing soccer, everybody's kicking the ball.
22:49
It doesn't work, you know?
22:51
So, I feel like it is it's it's like the old cliché, like it doesn't feel like work if you're doing something you love, which I know has been said eight million times, but like it is so true.
23:00
And and and I think it's like almost feels too easy to your point, so people are like, well, I've got to challenge myself.
23:06
And of course, like you do, and you want to keep challenging yourself, but like what a gift in life to like be able to do what you love to do.
23:14
And I think I think there's this misconception that like you shouldn't do that, you know?
23:19
And it's like, you know, for me, like when I told my parents I wanted to go to beauty school, they were like, Really? You sure?
23:26
You know, and like very like looked their nose down on it.
23:28
Like, you want to be a hair stylist?
23:29
And they also had I grew up in South Florida, and my parents had were entrepreneurs, which definitely informed a lot of my or who I became, but they had this like old lady clothing store, and it was right next to this like old lady hair salon.
23:39
And they were And I think in their mind, they were like, you want to work there?
23:43
And I was like, no, I'm going to move to New York City.
23:46
I'm going to do editorial and like fashion shows.
23:47
And I had these like grand ideas.
23:49
I didn't have Drybar at the time.
23:50
You know, but it was like that's what I loved.
23:53
Like, I grew up in South Florida.
23:54
I have naturally curly hair.
23:56
My hair was just massive and frizzy all the time.
23:57
And I was just fascinated by hair. I loved hair.
23:59
It's just what I loved, you know?
24:01
And so, it took me a lot It would take me many years to finally like get the courage to say like when my friends were going to college and they were studying whatever.
24:11
And I was always like, how do you guys know what you want to do?
24:12
Very confused by that whole notion of college and majors and all that.
24:16
And I just loved hair, and that was the thing that I really loved.
24:19
And it would You know, I talk about it in the book that it took me a while to to figure out, again, comes back to like being closed in.
24:26
Like, I always loved hair.
24:26
I would spend hours in the bathroom in high school, and I was just so I worked at a hair salon as a receptionist when I was in high school because I wanted to get free blowouts and because I loved being around hair stylists.
24:37
And I was like, this is the thing that I love, and I ignored it for so many years, you know?
24:43
And it's like to be able to tap into that thing.
24:45
And And you can't find a person.
24:48
There's nobody you can meet and say, what do you really love to do?
24:52
And they may not tell you because they're embarrassed, or they don't do it as a job because they like my parents won't approve, my husband won't approve, my whoever won't think it's a good idea.
25:00
My parents did not think it was a good idea to go to beauty school.
25:04
But I had enough like chutzpah to be like I hear you, but it's what I want to do, you know?
25:10
And I had no idea it was going to turn into like this beautiful life that it did for me, but I was just like stay really focused.
25:16
And I And I talk about that a lot to entrepreneurs that I'm mentoring.
25:19
It's like don't you know, shut all that out, you know?
25:21
Listen to what really feels like is is good for you, not what everybody else around you wants, you know?
25:30
Yeah, it's almost like that question that's come from what you're saying is what's that voice you're ignoring on the inside?
25:36
Or what's that idea that you keep kind of putting away because you're like, "That's ridiculous." Or "That's stupid."
25:42
Or and you've heard that voice before where someone looked at you weird because you actually shared your intention or your excitement and everyone looked at you like, "That's not real. Get over it."
25:51
And by the way, people do that at Drybar because I mean, like I said, it was in it was in the middle of a recession and people were like, "How do you make this concept work?"
25:59
It's like, you know, we were starting at $35 a blowout and it was like, you have to do a lot of blowouts to make that business work.
26:04
And I was like yeah, you know, but I think we can do it.
26:09
And I didn't like I literally not not great at math, but I was like, "I think if we can do like, you know, 10 blowouts an hour and we're open, you know, 10 hours today like I think it'll work."
26:19
You know, and I remember my brother started like putting an actual spreadsheet together and running the numbers.
26:23
It was like, "Yeah, if we do 30 or 40 blowouts today, we'll have a nice business."
26:27
You know, and of course we we never did that little.
26:29
We always did like 70, 80, 100 blowouts a day, which was just bananas.
26:34
But it was like people were the ones who put it in my head that like maybe maybe this idea doesn't work. I mean, so many people.
26:40
And then we started raising money and you know, that's a whole other conversation of like raising money with like walking into these rooms with men in suits who like did not understand the concept of Drybar. And we're like "What?"
26:52
You know, like, how does this work?"
26:53
And just didn't believe in it.
26:53
So many people didn't believe in it.
26:55
And And it did seem like a tough, you know, how do you make this work? Like, on a large scale?
27:01
Is there enough women who want to do this?
27:03
Is the price The price point's really low.
27:05
Like, margins are really thin. How does it work?
27:08
And, you know, and I just I'm like, "I'm just telling you, I really, you know, from a gut level know that this is going to work."
27:13
And then you're like, "Oh, This better work." You know, but it It did.
27:17
And And And I always felt like there was money on the line, for sure.
27:23
And that's not a small thing, but, you know, I remember when I started cutting hair, and I mean, when you're starting to cut hair, and you have really sharp scissors in your hand, it is very scary.
27:31
And like, and you know what's so funny is like the very first haircut never trust myself with scissors in my hand with my own hair, or anyone else's hair. No, it's the worst.
27:39
And there's Even if my wife says, "Will you sit?" I'm like, "Nope.
27:41
Like, I'm not going anywhere near that."
27:44
Well, the first haircut I ever did in beauty school, I cut someone's ear, and I felt like I was going to die.
27:48
And the ears bleed so much, and I thought When you say cut someone's ear, how much?
27:55
Just like a Just a little nip on the I mean, it was It was I remember It was so traumatizing I'm not sure for them, but for me.
28:01
And also, in beauty school, you're doing like $2 haircuts, and it's where you're learning, you know?
28:04
I still have like nightmares about that, because it was like the worst thing that could happen.
28:10
But beside that weird story, which I don't think I've ever talked to anybody about, um it was very traumatizing for me.
28:14
But I always felt like at the end of the day, when I was on the floor cutting, and when I was doing all that, and you know, and then when we were starting Drybar, I was like, "No one's going to die if this business doesn't work."
28:25
Like, which is like the worst possible outcome.
28:27
It's like, "We're not doing surgery.
28:28
We're not We don't, you know."
28:30
And And I And I always like found comfort in that, cuz I was like, you know, there's always a chance that we're going to lose money.
28:35
In my case, it was going to really be my brother's money, and my you know, my my husband at the time and I put in our life savings, which wasn't really that much, but a lot to us at the time.
28:44
And, you know, I was like, "It's going to really suck and we're going to lose money, but we're like, we're really smart, capable people and if this idea doesn't work, like, we'll figure something else out.
28:52
And I think that that mindset of like it you got to just like put it on the line is like it is really why I think I've been successful is like not holding anything too tightly of like, yeah, I really hope this works and I really think this is going to work, but if it doesn't, like, we're all going to be okay, you know?
29:12
And I think that's like you know, I think a lot a lot of entrepreneurs I talk to are like, I have to have this much money saved and I have to do this and I have to do this and I have to do this.
29:20
I was like, yeah, prepare, for sure, but like, at some point you're going to have to just jump, you know, and and hope for the best, Yeah, there is a there is a moment for that leap. Yeah.
29:29
I want to dive into a couple of things here that you've mentioned that I think really stood out and you talk about this and we were talking about this a bit offline.
29:36
It was this idea of page 13, you say, if you feel like an impostor, embrace it. Yeah.
29:42
And I feel like impostor syndrome's been something that a lot of people are talking about. Yeah.
29:45
I think it's something that there are even more people that are feeling than are talking about it and it seems to be a recurring feeling whenever you're in a new room or a new league or a new zone.
29:55
When you say embrace it, what does that mean?
29:58
Well, I think to your point of people talking about it a lot, they talk about it like it's a bad thing and I think I think of it as a good thing.
30:07
If you're embarking on a position in a new job or you're starting a company or whatever you're doing that's new to you, like, that's amazing.
30:17
Like, you're starting something new.
30:19
You're you're taking that leap of faith.
30:20
taking that leap of faith. You're you know, putting yourself in a situation that you've not been in and that's really scary, for sure, but it's also really exciting and exhilarating and it means you're growing and you're in this next new phase in your life and so this this negative association with impostor syndrome as if it's like a bad thing, it
30:39
is definitely happened to me and I think maybe because I never had any real formal training in anything other than hair where I would start a job and I was like, I know I'm under qualified for this job, but I'm going to like figure it out and I and I would, you know, and I guess that was part of it like yes, I am an imposter technically. I don't know
30:53
I don't know how to do this job, but you better believe I'm going to figure it out and do it well.
30:58
And it's no different with entrepreneurship.
31:00
I mean, when we started Drybar, I had never like been in charge of that many people.
31:04
I'd never managed a a salon.
31:05
Like I'd never my parents didn't have watch them and I worked for owners of hair salons and I've been a stylist for years.
31:12
Like I had a lot of the things that I think I needed to have, but I had never actually done it.
31:17
And so I was learning it as I went which was scary, but also amazing.
31:22
And I also think when you come in again, nothing I could have articulated then, but I I term I think we're hearing more and more now is this like beginners mindset, you know, and I had that when I was when we were starting Drybar because
31:36
I was quite literally a beginner in running a business and I made a lot of mistakes and I had to figure out a lot of things and that's that's also the beauty of this book is that I feel like I got an education in this. I I got like
31:44
I I got like a you know, a business degree while I was running a business because I was having to figure all these things out and I made tons of wrong decisions and bad choices.
31:54
You know, I also think I felt it's not necessarily imposter syndrome, but I think I felt this like immense pressure because I was the boss.
32:02
Like I had to know all the answers and I had to like if you came to me and asked me a question about the business, I'd be like, well, here's what I think.
32:08
Even though it wasn't always right, it was just like me having and I I used to think that that was like, oh, you're just the boss and you just you the buck stops with you and you have to.
32:18
And now I feel like and and how I how I approach the that question now is like, well, what do you think?
32:25
Which is not something I would have said and that's like I think that was all ego cuz I was like, oh, I feel this pressure.
32:29
Like I'm supposed to know the answer because I'm sitting where I'm sitting in this company and now I'm like, well, what do you think about that?
32:35
And then people are like, what? You know?
32:37
And I'm like, well, I don't I actually don't know the answer, but I'd love to hear what what you think.
32:40
But I I didn't have enough like you know, I was I was too focused on like feeling like I had to be and maybe that does go back to imposter syndrome.
32:48
I had to I felt like I needed to know all the answers because I was the boss and this was my company and blah blah blah.
32:53
Where now I'm like, there's so much freedom in saying I don't know, you know, like let's talk about it.
33:00
And then and then the culture that you create in a company when you're like the kind of boss that's like not a know-it-all and people aren't afraid to be like, hey Jay, you know, I actually think that if we tried this, this, and that, like when I'm sure people do that in your company.
33:11
Like when someone comes up to you and they're like I actually think if we tried blah blah blah and your response is like, no, you know, they're they're never coming to you with something again.
33:20
But if your response is like, oh, that's interesting, you know, and you may not always take it, but that beginners that feels to me like a beginner's mindset of like, I'm open to other ways of And and I think that there's a part of I know there's a part of me that gets a little like you know, and it's also like, I I feel like I know best and we go into our our ego of like, no, but I know what I'm doing.
33:43
How but but embracing what somebody else is bringing to you, I think is really powerful and that's something that took me a long time to get comfortable with.
33:50
Yeah, there's there's something that you reminded me on you talk about this on page 52 you're saying, being open to feedback personal or professional is a practice, a learned intention to stop taking the information, maybe go on a walk, take some deep breaths, and come back open to hearing what someone else is feeling.
34:07
And I wanted to ask you, what's been the best or most memorable piece of feedback that you gained on your professional journey that's kind of stuck with you where maybe even in the moment it was so painful to hear Yeah.
34:18
but you now look back and go I I believe that.
34:22
Well, I think thinking of feedback as a gift, which I I learned pretty early on and I remember you know, somebody in our company who said it.
34:31
I heard her say it once and I was like, "Wow, that's so profound because if you can be open to what someone is telling you, which is so hard and it is painful.
34:41
And And you know, I remember my brother saying to me once like, "People are scared of you." And I was like, "What?"
34:49
You know, just no awareness on my part.
34:51
Like I was like, "What are you talking about?
34:53
You know, what are you talking about?
34:54
What do you mean people are scared of me?"
34:55
Like And he was like, "Well, because you know, Oh, yeah, that's a joke.
35:04
You know, I was I But But in the moment I really was taken aback by it and I was like, "I'm so nice. What do you mean?"
35:09
And he was like, "Well, you know, you walk in the stores and you lose your mind."
35:13
And I was like, "I do that because I'm so passionate, you know?"
35:17
And I I was covering it up with like, "I'm so passionate and I want things to be perfect." And And I did.
35:20
But I I would learn over time that that walking in and like, you know, I would I would I you could see it all over my face cuz I was like, "Why are the floorboards dirty? Why is the music not up?
35:34
Why did this person not get greeted that way?"
35:35
Well, I mean, just for me it was like, you know, it was like sensory overload of everything that was wrong, which I think is a blessing and a curse cuz you're like, "Well, I am the person. This is my baby.
35:44
Like I am the person who has to be the one that's like, 'This is not working and and we need to fix this.'
35:50
But I also would learn that I people were excited when I would come in the store and they wanted to tell me the good things."
35:56
And I did start to perpetuate this reputation of like, "Allie's coming, watch out."
36:00
And you know, part of me was like, "I think maybe that's a good thing."
36:03
But then I was like, "No, it's it's not."
36:05
And And I would learn eventually to, you know, like I would take notes and I would then like, you know, not like ruin everybody's day when I would come in the store.
36:14
You know, and I had to learn that the hard way, but it really did take my brother, probably one of the only few people in our company who felt comfortable enough to say to me cuz he wasn't scared of me.
36:23
You know, he'd be like, "People are scared of you."
36:25
And I Again, at first I was very defensive and I told him he was wrong and you know, it was also my big brother.
36:31
But it really like sunk in and I was like, "Man, I don't want that.
36:35
I don't want people to be scared of me.
36:37
I want people to be able to talk to me.
36:38
I don't want people to feel like they have to protect me either."
36:41
Which was also another thing that drove me crazy and still does to this day.
36:44
Like I don't you know, I'm sure you agree with this.
36:47
It's like you don't want to be surrounded by yes people. Like please no.
36:49
Tell me tell me the truth.
36:52
Tell me what people are saying.
36:53
I want to know what people are thinking if if I can't ascertain that on my own, you know?
36:56
So if you have people around you who are willing to give you like the feedback, it's like you're only going to be better for it.
37:04
You know, it it stings in the moment and it still does.
37:07
Like you know, sometimes someone will tell me something and I'll be like, "Oh gosh.
37:10
Like I can't believe that."
37:13
And then if you're open to it and then you you then now you have the awareness about it.
37:17
And and I'll tell you I'm like, "I don't think you have children, right?" No.
37:21
You know, for me I have a 16 and 18 year old, two boys and like talk about honesty.
37:25
I mean, I'm really really close to my kids, but they will tell me things like that are very hard to hear.
37:31
And it it it is a real practice, a mental exercise for me to not you know, and my kids used to say to me like cuz I've cuz during the Drybar era when I was like I guess a little scary, you know, my my kids would even say to me like, "We don't know what version you're going to of you we're going to get." Mhm. Which is like Oh. Yeah.
37:49
Yeah, and I was like, "But I know that now."
37:51
And now like the power is in my control.
37:54
Like I can be like, "Okay."
37:57
And it literally just happened.
37:59
I was with my son is at Denison and University in Ohio.
38:02
He's playing football and I went out to see him and this you know, he he like came off the field, you know, and he was like didn't really want to talk about some of the stuff that we were going to talk about and my younger son said to me like, "Just give him a minute, Mom." And I was like, "What?"
38:16
He's like, "Just give him a minute."
38:18
And I was like, "Oh, right."
38:21
You know, cuz as a mom and anybody listening to this who's a mom, you're like, "When your kid isn't like perfect and happy, you're like, what's wrong? What's wrong? What's wrong? How can I fix it? What can I do? Do do do." You know, we get it.
38:29
We go into that like mama bear protective mode.
38:32
And my younger son looked at me and he's like, "Mom, give him a minute."
38:36
And I I did get defensive with him for a second.
38:38
And I was like, "What What are you talking about?"
38:40
You know, and he's like, "You know."
38:41
And I was like, "You're right."
38:43
You know, and I was like, "Okay."
38:45
And I thanked him, you know, and I backed up and I was like, "When he's ready to talk to me about it, he'll talk to me about it." And sure enough he did.
38:52
Couple hours later talk He opened up.
38:54
And it was like such a great lesson and reminder of like sometimes, you know, you need to give people space and you can't just have what you want when you want it.
39:02
And And that's been a really hard lesson for me.
39:05
And I think it's also like being at the at the helm of a company and and having this like mentality of like, "I can do and say whatever I want cuz I'm the boss and blah blah blah.
39:14
You can just do whatever."
39:15
That bleeds over into your real life, which I you know, my kids are kind of a living example of that of like, you know, And I used to say things to my kids like, "I've been around longer than you guys and I just know."
39:28
And they're like, "You don't always know, Mom."
39:30
You know, and it's like, you know, you So your kids are like talk about mirrors, you know, and and they've they've all of that awareness, I think, has been such a gift to me.
39:39
And And that You can get that anywhere in your life, from your best friend, from your spouse, from someone who works for you or with you.
39:46
It's like, if you ask genuinely, they're going to tell you.
39:50
And like, what a gift to like get that awareness, you know, and it does sting for a second.
39:54
And then you're like, "Oh, okay.
39:56
I'm going to take that and and be better."
39:57
My best friend tells me stuff, too, you know.
39:59
It's like, uh uh thank you. You know. Yeah.
40:03
Yeah, and it requires that beginner's mindset, that humility to accept and receive it.
40:07
I know I know my wife does it with me all the time.
40:09
And it's so much easier to defend yourself, to mask yourself, to shield yourself in a false sense. Yeah.
40:19
And what you don't realize is every time you pretend to shield yourself from good feedback, you're just setting yourself up for more downfalls.
40:27
And it happens again and again.
40:27
And the ego is so well equipped to keep drawing the sword and Gosh, it's crazy, isn't it?
40:37
cutting down everything in its way.
40:37
And it's perfect at it because that's its job. Yeah. But it's not protection.
40:42
It's actually your resilience is getting thinner and thinner and thinner.
40:45
And you're getting weaker and weaker and weaker.
40:48
I wanted to ask you because you're shifting into that you know, the I love how honest you were about the kind of feedback you get from kids.
40:53
I think people often talk about, "Oh, you know, my kid said I'm not cool anymore."
40:58
I get whatever that kind of stuff.
40:58
And like that doesn't sting.
40:59
But hearing this kind of stuff, do you think it's because you you definitely have a take on this in your book?
41:06
Like do you think it's possible to be really materially successful and have a happy marriage?
41:13
Like are those two things possible?
41:13
My my first marriage, which was like 16 years, it didn't didn't work not because of the business.
41:20
And I think that it's like I I joke a lot that like if you were like, you know, it must have been hard to work with your husband.
41:26
I was like, "Yeah, we got divorced, you know."
41:28
But that's not really, you know, it's a joke.
41:30
Um which of course is like a deflection.
41:32
But but more true was that like we probably never should have gotten married in the first place.
41:36
Like I we met when we were 26.
41:38
And I'm pretty sure I put this in the book that he tried to call the wedding off a month before the wedding. And I was like, "Oh, no. We are not doing that."
41:46
Like and he had some real good reasons for that.
41:51
Like you know, the relationship was really hot and heavy in the beginning.
41:53
It had faded quite a bit.
41:54
Like the intimacy wasn't really there.
41:56
But we were best friends.
41:58
And and I would later learn that like my parents had that marriage, which they ended up getting divorced, too.
42:05
And I I think I definitely emulated my parents' marriage, which is just wild when you read all that about how we do that cuz I didn't see it at all.
42:10
But, you know, we we had kids very quickly, which I really wanted.
42:15
I was very like I'm very driven.
42:17
And I was like, I want children.
42:18
And so, we had kids a year after we got married.
42:21
And then, you know, like I said, we started the business Drybar when my kids were three and five.
42:26
So, it was like boom, boom, boom.
42:28
And Drybar felt like a third baby.
42:30
And then, you know, Cam was doing all the creative, and I was doing all the other stuff.
42:33
And so, you know, we're on this path.
42:34
And and I knew all along, and so did he, even though we didn't want to admit that like this wasn't like this can't be it.
42:42
This can't be like what it's supposed to be.
42:46
But, you know, we didn't want to like disrupt our lives.
42:48
And we didn't you know, it's just like it's a lot to get divorced.
42:51
And I didn't want to be a divorced person.
42:52
And I liked the facade that I had.
42:55
These two really cute boys with great hair and this amazing husband.
42:58
And he was like the you know, the brainchild of the creative of Drybar, which was amazing.
43:02
I was like, I loved the way the package looked.
43:03
But, I knew it wasn't right.
43:05
You know, the material success.
43:07
I didn't I didn't want to shatter the whole image, you know?
43:12
And and obviously like I've, you know, come to realize that like you just you have to.
43:16
And that's the messy truth of it all.
43:18
And and then it was then I I made the really hard decision to end the marriage.
43:22
And then my son, who's now 18 and doing really well at Denison, he went into rehab because he started doing drugs.
43:29
There's a whole chapter about that.
43:30
And just my life completely unraveled, you know?
43:33
And and and to your question, it was like I on this hand I had all this success.
43:37
And I was like doing all this cool stuff.
43:39
And like anybody who didn't know me, I was like, I I was a guest on Shark Tank. Like coolest thing ever.
43:45
I was like on Ink Magazine on the cover.
43:47
I mean, it's just like all these really cool things were happening.
43:50
And you'd look at my life, like wow, what a cool life she's got.
43:54
And and she then all this success.
43:54
And I was being, you know, praised. And it was great.
43:58
But then my life was falling apart, you know?
43:59
And and so, no, I didn't have I wasn't able to like hold both.
44:03
And then I come out of Grant after about two years, like it really worked all the treatment we put Grant through and he he really came out on top and he really did the work and he's such a I mean, he ended up in a couple different programs.
44:16
One of them was an outdoor wilderness program in Utah, which I actually think every human should probably have to go through.
44:20
should probably have to go through. We went to visit him once and he was like making fire out of like, you know, two sticks and he was like learned how to I mean, the thing it was amazing and I was like, this is really profound and and he really came out such a better person on
44:35
the other side and and it also brought me and my ex together because we had to like do group family group therapy and family there and all the things and and it it was also one of those things that I I actually thought might kill me cuz it was so painful, but it actually was a blessing in disguise. I mean, the the
44:50
I mean, the the insight and the person that Grant turned into on the other side of that is just remarkable and it brought me and my ex back together as friends and like we learned how to co-parent because of all that and even my younger son really been I mean, it was all like such an amazing blessing.
45:05
At the time, I wouldn't have ever I mean, asked for that, you know?
45:09
I mean, asked for that, you know? And so it was like the both and in the odds and the dual duality of what what I was living and then I came out of that situation, you know, and rushed back into another relationship that was like, now I'm now I'm looking for like real
45:24
love because I didn't feel like I had it the way I wanted it in my first marriage and then I jump into that, you know, and at that time we were like, you know, it was right before that I met him like 5 months before the pandemic and I was
45:36
already kind of like transitioning out of Drybar in a lot of ways cuz the company was so big and we had so many people running it now and what I was doing on a day-to-day basis wasn't really there anymore and and now I was like, you know, just looking for love and like and then I found it and I was
45:51
like, oh, I think this is what it's supposed to be and and I was you know, madly in love with this man and I wasn't paying attention to anything else, you know, and to any of the red flags that were there, that I now really see were there. And so I I get to your question, which
46:04
And so I I get to your question, which is such a good one.
46:06
Like I did I couldn't hold both.
46:07
You know, it was like I Now I was like stepping away from Drybar and now I was stepping into just love and I lost completely lost myself on that side.
46:17
You know, it was like I lost myself in the Drybar world and put my love life and even my kids a little bit on hold and now I was in the the other side of it where I'm madly in love and I lost the other side of my own personal purpose.
46:30
You know, and I kind of enmeshed into his world and I was like my god.
46:36
And now, as you know, we're we're going through divorce and I I could never have imagined that would happen, but on the on the other side of it, I'm like, oh, yeah, you know, it's like what I haven't learned yet, which I'm hoping I get now, is that, you know, I have to keep myself intact.
46:53
Like what do I love and what do I want to be doing and can I love somebody else while I'm in that place?
47:01
Cuz I would throw everything else out the window.
47:04
It was like when I was building Drybar, it was like only Drybar.
47:06
When I was like falling in love with this new man, it was only him and I lost myself.
47:10
And like he was building a business and he was really busy and he had little kids and whatever and so I threw myself into his world and like kind of forgot about myself.
47:20
And even now, and it hasn't been that long, but I'm like coming back into my own and I'm like this book and I have all these projects and I'm like, oh, I'm getting back to myself and I would like to have love, too.
47:32
But like also, you know, and I So to it's such a good question.
47:36
I love that you asked it because I I haven't been able to find it yet. And I get it now.
47:40
And now I'm like anxious to like try it out, you know, and be like, can I be in love, madly in love, have the right kind of love with a person and myself and what I'm doing?
47:51
I haven't been able to figure that out yet.
47:53
And I think, you know, I think a lot of us it falls one of those things inevitably fall by the way. I guess. I don't know.
48:01
I don't know how what other people's lives are like.
48:02
You know, I I just You know, it's funny.
48:04
I was we were talking to a couple recently and they were the wife said something like, "You know, our marriage is good enough."
48:10
And I was like, You know, and she said it in front of her husband and the husband was like, you know, and I was like, "There's definitely some stuff going back over there."
48:19
But it is interesting and it's like, how do you do that?
48:21
I don't know if you guys have figured it out.
48:26
No, I mean, I I don't The first thing is the challenging thing about any relationship, whether it's business or marriage, is that there's two minds.
48:32
And as we know, our mind is always changing and growing and evolving.
48:38
Now, imagine that times two.
48:42
Are they changing at the same time in the same way? Yeah. No.
48:45
Are they having the same thought at the same time every day? No.
48:47
Do they have the same dreams and aspirations every day? No.
48:52
And so, we should be more surprised when people get together and stay together than when people separate and move apart.
49:00
It's actually remarkable that anyone could spend their life with another person for a long amount of time than it is that people find it hard to stay with people.
49:10
statement in and of itself makes me feel so good because it's like I've had this shame.
49:14
I I didn't want to be divorced once and now I'm heading into divorce twice and I really I think a lot of my sadness and grief when this first happened was because I was like embarrassed and I was like I get that. I what?
49:27
Like this second marriage, I'm getting divorced again?
49:30
Like, holy You know, and just all the like shame. What's wrong with me?
49:34
But it's such which is why I really love and I hope people who are listening to that like feel that too because and I I was telling you before like I get a lot of people who now reach out to me and they're like, "I'm really unhappy in my marriage.
49:45
Should I leave my husband?"
49:46
And I'm like, "I don't know. Don't ask me."
49:51
But like it's a good thing to ask yourself, you know?
49:52
And and I do think you're right.
49:54
It's like we grow and change and you know, and and in my case, I don't think we were having the right conversations enough of like and we ignored a lot of things.
50:03
And granted it was like a really weird time and our relationship got very fast-tracked because of COVID and like we moved in together after 5 months.
50:10
I don't know that we would have done that had COVID not thrust this like very crazy change into all of our lives and you know, I think it all happened the way it was supposed to, but it is a like yeah, we're always growing and changing and how do you do that together?
50:25
There's two kind of thought experiments that I think can help people with what we're talking about not as solutions, but as and it's what you just said.
50:33
If you're not having the right conversations with yourself and if you're not having the right conversations with that person, Yeah.
50:39
everything's going to feel like a surprise and everything's going to kind of be a random event. Yeah.
50:43
And all you can do, you can't make someone stay with you and you can't make something work.
50:51
All you can actually do is track whether you're getting closer or moving further apart.
50:55
That's actually all you can do is track and monitor because like I said, so much is changing all the time and so all you can do is track change. Yeah.
51:04
You you can't force a result or a direction. Yeah.
51:07
only track change and try and move closer together or move apart and it's what you said.
51:11
Like I think when we think about the word balance, if you think about it, we all have a finite number of hours.
51:15
We have a finite number of resources and we have a finite number of amount of energy.
51:19
So if you had 100% and you said you've got yourself, you got your partner, you got your work, you got your kids and then you got your family and you put 20% into each of those.
51:32
Now you're going to get a 20% result on each of those.
51:33
That's a balanced life if we look at it in that way. So if That doesn't work.
51:38
It doesn't work or or it may work for someone, but the idea then being okay, well now you got like a 80% return on your career, which means 80% of your energy was going into the work part, which means then 5% was going to all the others.
51:52
So, you've got a huge 80% uh That was me in the Drybar era, yeah. Right.
51:56
And and and so, when we look at that, we just go, "Well, how can any human ever achieve Right. perfection?
52:02
Any human, including me, including everyone, we're so everyone is so limited that our ability to make everything and everyone happy and successful is mathematically impossible. Yeah, it's true.
52:17
it's mathematically impossible, let's stop pretending that we're able to nail every part of every life.
52:21
And let's be honest and say, "I'm focusing on this in this era or this phase or this month or this year."
52:29
That naturally means I can't focus on these three areas.
52:32
And I think people who stay together or adapt or whatever in a healthy way are people who found a way of saying, "I understand what you're focusing on, and I get that and I respect it. But guess what?
52:46
When you're back and you have time, I may be focusing on something else."
52:50
And so, I think anyone who's navigating their relationship in a healthier way, there's no better or worse, but in a way that we would consider healthier is only because two people are communicating, as you said, enough. Yeah.
53:01
Where they're just having conversations.
53:03
It doesn't mean there's a perfect standard or there's complete intimacy at all times or they're having the best, you know, sexual relationships at all times while everything else is going on, like not possible. impossible. Yeah.
53:16
Yeah, it's it's so interesting, too, because I think you don't want you're avoiding dealing with something that you know is there.
53:25
It's like you said, you're not always going to be on the same page.
53:26
You're not going to you're going to grow differently and and whatever.
53:30
And it's like, you know, in our case, it was like we weren't You have to Again, not I don't mean to be like a broken record, but going back to like your inner that inner voice of like for you know, for me, I knew there were things that weren't right.
53:42
And I think now and you know, I work with therapists and coach and I have lots of people, you know, cuz I love getting is I love getting as much I mean now I'm like I love the feedback.
53:53
Give me all the feedback.
53:55
Like I really want to hear as many perspectives as I can.
53:56
And from people that like I really trust and admire and and you know, one of the things that I was talking to my coach about recently was like cuz I've I've been trying to like put a bow on this to like make myself feel better about it not working.
54:09
And I've come to realize like if well, I'm like well, if we had had the conversation that we weren't having, you know, the right.
54:17
I mean you're shaking your head because you know what I'm going to say.
54:20
What if we had talked about the thing?
54:22
Maybe it would have worked.
54:22
Maybe it wouldn't have worked.
54:24
Like obviously nobody is nobody knows, you know, and and and he and I had that conversation in in the aftermath of all of this.
54:29
Like had we called out you know, one of the big things that wasn't working for us early on that we both did not want to call out because it would have potentially probably meant the the end of the relationship. And we didn't want that.
54:42
You know, we were very like wrapped up in like the excitement and the newness and the lust and the chemistry and the passion and all the things that happen when your brain I mean I'm sure I'm sure there's some science on like what happens to your brain. in my book. Yeah.
54:55
Yeah, but you know, and so we weren't we didn't have this conversation and perhaps had we had it maybe it would have shifted and we could have figured something out that would have changed the trajectory of our relationship and it maybe it had worked and maybe it wouldn't have.
55:06
But we didn't even have the conversation, you know, and that and that's the thing.
55:12
It's like you have to have those honest conversations in work in business, you know, in business in your personal life and if you're avoiding them it's going to come back around.
55:21
Like you can be sure of that, you know.
55:24
Yeah, I always say there are like there are four check-ins that I do with my wife regularly.
55:28
And so every day I try and ask her a simple one.
55:31
What was your highlight of the day or what was exciting today? Which is an easy one.
55:37
Anyone can ask that, very simple.
55:37
Uh every week or month I'll ask, you know, is there something coming up that I can help you with?
55:45
Like, is there something you're struggling with or something that's on your mind that I need to be aware of or conscious of?
55:49
Every quarter I'll ask, is this relationship going in the direction you want or is it going in the direction I want?
55:59
If it isn't, what are we both willing Yeah.
56:02
to do to put it in the right direction? Yeah.
56:04
Are you willing to do something and am I?
56:06
And then every year a simple one of like, well, what's your goal this year?
56:10
Or what what are you pursuing this year?
56:12
And those four questions don't or check-ins don't save a relationship, they do what I was saying earlier is they help you track Mhm.
56:19
whether you're on the same page or you're completely on another page and if you're even aware and conscious.
56:23
And the reason you have to do that is those should be four check-ins you do with yourself, coming back to your point. Yeah.
56:30
Like, checking in with every day and going to myself, what's my highlight today?
56:32
Checking in with myself every week or every month and going, hey, what do I need help with this month? Have I asked for that?
56:37
Every quarter, is my life going in the direction that I want it to go in?
56:41
And every year, what am I pursuing?
56:42
Like, if I'm not checking in that with myself and I'm not checking in that with my wife, then how can I know myself and how can I know this human?
56:50
And I think the assumption that I know someone, like I've, you know, me and my wife have only been together for 10 years, but it's all I know is that she's a and constantly evolving, growing human. Sure.
57:02
Just cuz she is over 30 doesn't mean that she's fully formed and done. And and neither am I.
57:10
And just like your children are growing up, your sons are changing and growing.
57:14
I think we assume that kids grow and adults stay the same. Yeah.
57:18
And it's like, well, wait a minute, that's so untrue. Yeah.
57:20
And and I think that's what I'm always trying to stop my mind from normalizing that, oh, I know her now.
57:26
Oh, I know how she's going to react.
57:29
so it's such a like that fixed mindset.
57:31
And I'm so guilty of that because I'm such a like I want everything wrapped up in a pretty bow.
57:35
I'm like I like things like really neat and clean and tidy like physically, you know, that I'm like I just want to know what's happening and like, you know, accepting uncertainty and like life is completely uncertain.
57:49
And if you can surrender to that like but I it's just it's hard, you know, it is really hard to be like, okay, I'm going to like go with the flow and I read that who is it um Bruce Lee's daughter wrote a book called Be Like Water.
58:01
Oh yes, yes, yes, I know.
58:03
You know, and I was like I and I I I love when I remember it because I feel like I need like posters all over my house of like all the thing that you just said and all these things cuz you're like, oh yeah, you can't fight the current.
58:12
you can't fight the current. Like you can't, you know, you can't fight it and it's like if you can surrender to it and like, you know, and that the fact that we are always changing and growing and and I love that what you said about
58:23
tracking it and and I think there was a phase in our relationship when we were doing more of like check-ins and we probably had listened to something like this and we're like, oh we should be checking in more and then eventually we stopped doing that. yeah. Yeah, and you're like, oh man, we yeah.
58:33
yeah. Yeah, and you're like, oh man, we lost we lost our way, you know, and it's just so easy to do that and and you know, and it and it really does like straddle the fence on business and personal because I did it all the time in in the Drybar era when I would like,
58:46
you know, stop paying attention to what was going on people around me and stopped having, you know, those conversations like I really needed to be having and just like would get all like sulky and, you know, why why wouldn't why wasn't I having this conversation? I
58:57
I was I was causing my own suffering, you know, and it's like we just as humans do that which I, you know, which I think is like the the self-awareness piece.
59:04
It's like the things that we use to nurture ourselves like what we're listening to, what we're watching, what we're reading, you know, if you kind of sometimes I'm like especially in the last few months having gone through going through my divorce and being so sad and I'm like ingesting so many books and so many things and I'm like, okay, I've read enough. I'm done. I'm good.
59:26
But then I'm like, no, I'm not.
59:28
I got to keep I mean I got to do at least a couple things a day that like keep me on that spiritual path, you know?
59:34
And it's like What's the word I'm looking for?
59:36
I don't want to say it's like a job or responsibility. Habit, you know?
59:39
And it's like daily practice.
59:41
Yeah, it's like it's so important.
59:43
It's so easy to lose track of that, especially when like something you get really excited or you meet somebody new and you're like which is exactly what I do.
59:50
I'm like, oh, I'm so happy now. I'm like, I got it. I don't have I'm good.
59:53
I don't need to do any of that stuff anymore. Like, you know? Yeah.
59:57
And Ru and Ru Paul Dan, I want to thank you for being so like honest about it and so real and being so messy about it because I think that's all of us, right?
1:00:04
Like that's what we're all looking for and we're all looking to have a perfect start and a perfect end.
1:00:09
And we're all looking to have like the perfect person and the perfect relationship with ourselves and none of that exists.
1:00:14
Talk me through this because I have so many friends who like you would feel shame and guilt for getting divorced and so they never will.
1:00:25
Or I have a couple of friends that have kind of had the courage to get to the other side, but they now experience the judgment or they feel the shame that comes from other people's projection of it. Yeah.
1:00:37
What is the hardest thing about getting divorced?
1:00:40
Like what's the toughest part about it?
1:00:42
I've been on both sides of it now, you know, where the first divorce after 16 years you know, feeling like I did the love that I wanted and intimacy that I wanted wasn't there.
1:00:53
So I was like is it was funny cuz I when I first left the marriage, I was like, you know, like rearing to go and I was like dating really quickly and all of that.
1:01:03
And then very quickly my the thing happened with my son and then I realized that like dating wasn't so easy and now I'm a single mom and at the time my ex didn't really want to be talking to me and so it was like my world spun out of control and I fell into a bit of a depression and I remember people telling me that like even though you're not in love with your ex-husband anymore, he still held like a space and energy that is no longer there. And it's like a death.
1:01:27
And I for months and months and months I refused to believe that.
1:01:29
I was like, "It's It's not a death. Nobody died."
1:01:33
Like I took it very literally and I was like, "He's He's alive."
1:01:34
Like I could I would not allow my brain to like understand that, you know, until I finally did.
1:01:41
And it's like, you know, when you It's like when the student's ready, the teacher appears mentality.
1:01:45
And I was like, I'm sure a lot of people said it to me, but it was like I I was on some show with this guy who wrote a book called Energy Speaks.
1:01:51
I don't know if you've ever heard of it.
1:01:53
And he was talking about energy and whatever.
1:01:55
And after the show, I pulled him aside and I like very quickly told him what was going on and I was and how like I was, you know, coping with my divorce and I was in this depression.
1:02:03
And he was like, "Listen, your husband, even though you don't love like love him like that and want to be with him, he still held energy that's gone.
1:02:09
And that is a very big hole like black hole for you to fill in your life.
1:02:14
And it's just going to, you know, take some time."
1:02:15
Which isn't rocket science and I'm sure other people said it to me, but at that moment I was like, Yeah. It hits, right.
1:02:21
And so that change of life of like your whole life being one way and then it becoming another way.
1:02:31
And on in my case, like my son going through rehab and that like very hard time.
1:02:35
So it was all rolled into like just being hard and I was really sad and and I and I was really struggling and, you know, and then the identity stuff started to kind of creep in, too.
1:02:49
And so that was That was hard.
1:02:49
I think from like more of an identity like a personal identity standpoint was hard and like a rebuilding my life after so long.
1:02:58
This divorce was was quite different.
1:02:58
It felt just much more like heartbreak. Like I was heartbroken. Like just heartbroken.
1:03:03
And I'd never experienced that kind of heartbreak.
1:03:05
I I I recognize now truly that it's it's for the best.
1:03:10
And And I think I'm for for for of us, for all of us, it's for the best.
1:03:16
But it just hurts so bad that like to experience heartbreak like that, where you're like, oh, someone just put it really well that like trauma is the intersection of unexpected and overwhelm. Mhm.
1:03:30
And I think that's such a simple way to understand trauma.
1:03:32
It's like this thing you didn't see coming really, and then the overwhelm of it, like the boom, you know?
1:03:38
And that's kind of what it was for me.
1:03:40
I was like, I may never recover from this.
1:03:43
Like that's how like devastating it was.
1:03:44
I mean, I think you know, cuz I think I talked to you right around the time it was happening and and I was so sad.
1:03:50
I was like, I'm never going to be okay. You know?
1:03:53
And I'm you know, it's and I'm okay, you know?
1:03:56
And I've and I've when the fog starts to clear, cuz it's like it's real muddy when you're in it.
1:04:03
And you know, I mean, quite literally when you're in fog, you can't see.
1:04:06
And it's the perfect analog analogy to me is like I was in so much fog around it and like my ego is all like bent out of shape and I was, you know, and I was worried like my kids were going to be mad at me and I was worried what the world was going to think and all this stuff.
1:04:22
And then I was like, now as the clouds and the fog started to clear, I'm like, oh, no, this was not ultimately the right thing, you know?
1:04:32
And maybe in some universe like had we had these conversations, we'd done this thing, and la la la, maybe it would have been right, but it just wasn't and this is the way it all went down and I realized that like, oh, this there's a lot of lessons here and there's a lot of medicine and I've learned so much and I'm so grateful for it now.
1:04:48
You know, like I'm still coming out of the anger of it a little bit, but I am ultimately just really grateful for all the lessons that I've learned and and I think I said this earlier, I like who I am on almost every level now more than I did then.
1:05:03
I had a it was a lot of tough lessons I had to learn.
1:05:09
And I I looking at myself in this lens that I had not looked at myself through of like why he made that decision and why he didn't want the marriage anymore, which is just I mean you can imagine I mean you put yourself in those in that first second if your wife was like I want a divorce right now you you would just be like it's a devastating if you're you know in love with somebody.
1:05:34
But then when and so I was like trying I've tried to now put myself in the very painful place of like why?
1:05:38
Why didn't he want to be with me?
1:05:41
And and sure like I not not to go down the rabbit hole of like I'm a terrible person and I'm not worthy. It's not that.
1:05:47
It's more of like let me see what what the things were that I didn't like about myself that I can now see through his eyes.
1:05:55
And this is not a conversation with him.
1:05:57
This is a conversation with me and how I perceived a lot of things and the way I acted and the way I showed up a lot that I don't like, you know, that I'm like oh I don't ever want to show up like that again.
1:06:09
And what a gift and what a lesson to like be this better version of myself now.
1:06:14
So to answer your question those were like the hardest things of it but it is I'm literally living proof that you can you will get through it.
1:06:21
And everybody kept saying that to me and I would grasp onto that like when people would say it's you're going to be okay.
1:06:28
It's going to I promise you're going to be okay and I would like hold onto that like thank you.
1:06:31
I needed other people to say it to me cuz I couldn't find it in myself.
1:06:36
I could I didn't believe it but if enough people said it to me like I promise you and so many people said that to me I promise you you're going to be okay.
1:06:44
It's you know it's it's a beautiful thing to have like a community of people around you that will tell you that and that you and I'm like are you are you sure? Like do you know?
1:06:51
And they're like I know, you know?
1:06:53
And it's lofty but it's true, you know?
1:06:55
Well you know what I find so hope giving about your choices is that you turn towards people, things, ideas that would help and support you.
1:07:07
And I think that that's the hard part.
1:07:09
Like it's so easy and it's natural and should not be judged at all, but it's so easy for you to go off the rails and go in different directions.
1:07:18
And the fact that you had the inner wisdom and the intuition to say, "Actually, I'm going to turn towards advice and therapy and coaching and insight and learning and reading and hearing this message from a supportive community."
1:07:31
Like that's what I want people to take away with them.
1:07:33
need to hear that, that that's the choice we have to try and make.
1:07:36
And something you said this concept you're talking about the intersection, something sparked for me as you said that.
1:07:42
And I was going to complete your sentence, but I didn't want to because You knew what I You knew No, I didn't know what you were going to say and that's why I waited because I didn't know what you'd read or heard.
1:07:53
But I was thinking about it that when I heard the word when you think about trauma or even like a trigger that eventually leads to trauma, it's actually the intersection between an unexpected event Mhm. but a familiar feeling. Mhm.
1:08:05
And so there's what you were talking about earlier as well, like how you repeat your parents' marriage. Mhm.
1:08:12
Like the idea that it's an unexpected because you didn't think you would ever do that.
1:08:15
But then it's a really familiar feeling and you're like, "Oh, I I feel that."
1:08:18
Or like, "I'm going through a divorce.
1:08:20
Someone's asked me for a divorce."
1:08:21
It's an unexpected event, but it's a familiar feeling of I don't like myself already and this is a reminder of something I know deep down. Yeah.
1:08:30
And it's that familiarity with that unexpectedness that completely converges to create such disharmony and misalignment in terms Yeah, it really does, you know, because you're like and it's amazing when you have like a great support system around you telling you that, "No, you're a good person."
1:08:46
It's like you know, my best friend, she would tell me like we would Yes, you have culpability here, you know, and we would She knew it my relationship very well cuz she's my best friend.
1:08:59
But no, you're not a bad person.
1:08:59
You know, there are things that you've had to learn about yourself and there are things that, you know, you want to change, but that doesn't mean you're a bad person.
1:09:07
And it's hard to live in that duality of like beating yourself up in the shame that we can put on ourselves because this marriage failed and I'm like cuz in the beginning I was like this marriage failed, I'm a ter- you know, I'm a terrible person, no one's ever going to love me again, any any man I'm going to date is going to be like, oh, you were married twice, sorry, see you.
1:09:27
You know, which isn't true, you know, but it's it it is the things that, you know, we do, which you know, I I I have spent a lot of time, a lot of the stuff that I read is on like, you know, mindset and the brain and how powerful the brain is and how we can change our thoughts and and that stuff's all so fascinating to me, you know, like that you can we have control.
1:09:47
I didn't believe that until now, like until very recently.
1:09:53
I was like, it is what it is, you know, but now I'm like, oh, we can change our thoughts and we can you know, decide.
1:10:00
And and it's like there's a to me there's like a well, you still got to grieve the thing. Yeah.
1:10:06
But I can also cuz I was like, you know, I was I started to listening to Joe Dispenza, you know him?
1:10:10
He's been on the show four times now.
1:10:12
I Oh, wait, I think I might have discovered him through your your show actually.
1:10:15
I love that guy and I love what he says, you know, and I but I I had the people be like, yeah, his stuff is great, but like you still have to grieve the stuff cuz I was like, I'm just going to believe this, you know, and it's like, but there's still the grief over there.
1:10:28
And I think that's another challenging part of like anything, like dying is that the grief your body physically needs to go through if you change your mindset too fast and like you know, it's it's kind of an interesting I think it's a little both.
1:10:43
I'm really fascinated by by the whole thing the brain can do, you know?
1:10:48
When you look at grief and loss, it's like there's the grief and loss of that person and then there's the grief and loss of the person you were with that person. Yes.
1:10:58
And they're two different things because you were a particular type of yourself.
1:11:03
There was a part of yourself that was connected to that individual.
1:11:08
And now not only is that person gone, that part that you'd created with them has also gone. Yeah.
1:11:13
And it's no longer existent.
1:11:13
And so there's so much identity So layered.
1:11:19
is such a fascinating subject in and of itself.
1:11:22
And it's like you weren't complete in the first place either.
1:11:23
And so there's there's just so many layers to it that are so challenging.
1:11:28
And all of these things that you're talking about, whether it's your work, your marriage, your kids, they put a spotlight onto all of this and all the gaps.
1:11:37
What would you say was the most important lesson you took away from your first relationship and then your second relationship if because you've just you were talking so much about it was all about lessons actually.
1:11:47
And what would you say was the first one that you took away from the first and then from the second, what have you taken away?
1:11:52
What's been the big Um lesson that stayed with you?
1:11:54
You know, I think for me and it's it's pretty vulnerable to say, but like it was like, oh, I I think I rushed into both of my marriages because I didn't want to be alone and I wanted to be in a relationship and I just wanted to be in a relationship. They were right enough.
1:12:07
I don't think anything's ever perfect, of course, but you know, I realized there were things in both of my marriages that weren't like exactly what I wanted them to be.
1:12:17
And and again, it's a hard thing to say because it's like nothing's ever exactly what you want it to be.
1:12:20
With some of the things that were happening with us, I think I actually was pretty open and honest about them, but we what we weren't open and honest about was like what I actually needed it to be.
1:12:29
And if it wasn't going to be that, like then it probably wasn't going to work.
1:12:32
And we both needed to like come to terms with that.
1:12:36
So, you know, I think the lesson is like really level setting what you need and what that other person needs, not just what you need.
1:12:43
Like sometimes you have to be the one that's willing to say like, I don't think this is going to work because blah blah, but like to me, I think I've ever been strong enough to be like, "I'm completely in love with you, but I don't think this relationship is going to work." Like, who can do that? That's so hard. I'm sure people do.
1:13:00
You know, it's like I think about it like so silly.
1:13:05
I think just cuz I've watched so many movies in my life, like Legends of the Fall.
1:13:08
Did you ever see Legends of the Fall?
1:13:10
You know, I mean, it's like it just it just it came to me recently.
1:13:11
I was like, "You know, you watch one of those movies and like you want the like the love story to work, and then it doesn't."
1:13:18
And you're like and you you walk out of movie like so sad.
1:13:20
And you're like, "I just wanted them to be together."
1:13:24
You know, and that's how I feel in the second marriage.
1:13:26
Like, I really wanted it to work.
1:13:28
And as the viewer watching the movie, you're like, "I know it wasn't right.
1:13:32
It wasn't supposed to be."
1:13:34
And it's like, you know, and that's how I felt like Legends of the Fall, you know, it's like I felt like that in La La Land. Oh, yeah.
1:13:38
Oh my god, that's even better.
1:13:41
La La Land, like why weren't they together at the end?
1:13:44
You know, you're and you watch that movie, and I've watched it a couple times. Such a great movie.
1:13:47
And you're like, you know, she marries another guy, and you're like, "Sorry for anybody who hasn't watched La La Land."
1:13:52
It's been a while though.
1:13:53
Yeah, and it's that is how really how it's like landed for me in this like sometimes like what we want to work just doesn't, you know, and you have to just learn to accept it.
1:14:02
And I think that's that's been the big lesson for me is like, you know, a lot of people people close to me know and have said to me in the aftermath of this, like, "You've You've had things work out for you pretty well most of your life."
1:14:16
You know, and I have, and I'm really blessed and lucky in that way.
1:14:18
And this has been like one of the first things that like didn't work out the way I wanted it to, and I couldn't control it.
1:14:26
You know, no matter what I did, I couldn't change the outcome.
1:14:27
And like, oof, that's rough.
1:14:30
You know, and I'm sure and I know a lot of people have dealt with that on a much bigger and harder scale than me, and and so that was a real lesson of like sur- surrender.
1:14:38
Of like, you just don't get control, you know?
1:14:41
I look at my first marriage and think that like we were married for so long, and for so long I didn't have that like electric chemistry love that I wanted, but yet I had these two amazing kids, and I built this great business, and so like that was enough for me.
1:14:54
You know, in this stage of my life, I feel like I actually want more of it all now, you know, where I was always like, "Well, I have this.
1:15:03
I don't have that, but I have this."
1:15:04
And now I'm like, "I want to do something that I really love and feel passionate about for myself, and I want to have a great love, too."
1:15:11
And now I'm trying to find both. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
1:15:14
And And you know, Ali, like what I really appreciate about you, honestly, this conversation, the book, is like you're the real deal.
1:15:21
Like a lot of people will say they want to share their messy truth, and they want to tell what's really going on, and I think it's almost like we're still trying to do it because it sounds and looks vulnerable, but it isn't.
1:15:38
And that's not, you know, and I think that hearing from you today, all I've heard is the messy truth, and and it's not been I can't think of anyone who's listening to this that isn't going to feel comforted, supported, held, and feel connected to your journey in some way.
1:15:57
I don't think it's mathematically, spiritually, emotionally possible for someone to master every area of their life Yeah. perfectly at all times.
1:16:05
I just I just want to throw that out there because we still keep putting it up when we say say things like power couple, when we say things like "Oh my god, the perfect match."
1:16:16
When we say things like, you know, we don't realize how many ideas we've put into the world Yeah.
1:16:23
that "Oh my god, did you know they're both billionaires now?
1:16:25
And they're both" And it's like, you have no idea just how many ideas you're We plant seeds in people's minds that these headlines exist in reality. Yeah.
1:16:34
And if you're someone who knows anyone, you know that the headline is so untrue about everyone.
1:16:41
And that doesn't mean people can't have healthy relationships.
1:16:43
It doesn't mean people can't have happy relationships.
1:16:46
But do people have perfect relationships? No.
1:16:48
And do people have perfect businesses? No.
1:16:50
And do people have perfect anything? No.
1:16:52
And so it's it's a mindset that we've all been so conditioned to believe.
1:16:56
It's why we feel sad when Ryan Gosling doesn't end up with Emma Stone.
1:17:01
Like it's there's a it's because we've been taught that that is the perfect ending.
1:17:06
That is the perfect ending and there's so much wiring that we have to uncross.
1:17:13
And that's the work you're doing.
1:17:13
And I think that that that's what I'm so appreciative of watching and observing you on this journey is you're so courageously and bravely doing the hard unlearning.
1:17:25
Yeah, there's a reminds me of you know, I'm sure you're familiar with Michael Singer and you know, until the soul. Yeah.
1:17:32
There's been a few books that I'm like I've listened to on repeat.
1:17:35
You're just like I just got to keep listening to this to get like through the day.
1:17:38
It didn't sink in to me until I started thinking about the whole movie thing which was like he was like you know, if you're in heartbreak or you're in sadness.
1:17:46
He's like he equated it to again it it only connected for me recently not when he said it.
1:17:53
But this like idea of when you watch a movie and you get sad about something.
1:17:58
It's like you and but then you tell all your friends about it. You talk about it.
1:18:01
It's like you almost like the sadness and the emotion that it brings in.
1:18:06
But it's just like when it happens to you, you don't like it quite as much.
1:18:10
But if you can put yourself in that like it's just your movie, you know, and you're just watching it and you're not going to feel sad forever.
1:18:15
You know, it's such a good perspective of it.
1:18:17
And it's funny how it's like come full circle for me of like oh, this is my sad movie and it's sad and then it's and but it's also okay, you know.
1:18:27
Yeah, and it's almost like just like a movie when you walk in and watch one part of a movie, you don't get the full picture.
1:18:36
You you in on a sad scene Yeah.
1:18:36
or you walked in on a scene where one guy's chasing another guy and you think the guy being chased is the bad guy, but actually it's the good guy.
1:18:43
Like, there's just so much Right.
1:18:47
We we look at people's lives in snapshots. yeah.
1:18:50
And you can't tell who's what and who's who and who's the villain and who's the hero. Yeah.
1:18:55
And yeah, becoming an observer in our own life is so hard to do, but Yeah.
1:19:00
Allie, we end every episode of On Purpose with a final five. Okay.
1:19:04
And so, these are your final five.
1:19:06
They have to be answered in one word to one sentence maximum.
1:19:07
Oh, I love stuff like that.
1:19:10
ask you to go off if I feel like it.
1:19:10
So, question number one, uh what is the best entrepreneurship advice you've ever heard or received?
1:19:18
Progress over perfection.
1:19:21
You know, I think that we as entrepreneurs, we get stuck in this and I see it all the time of like, "Oh, I can't start this because I don't have this and I don't know this and I don't have enough money and I don't have this."
1:19:30
But like, just start and you know, you'll it's it's never going to I mean, we just just talked about this.
1:19:35
It's never going to be perfect, but just like just go.
1:19:37
It'll you'll you'll get it.
1:19:39
You'll figure it out as you go.
1:19:40
And I think that's what people don't realize that I have fully agree with you and that's where the mistakes are made, but the problem is there's no other path. Yeah.
1:19:46
So, if you just waited, waited, waited, you never get anywhere.
1:19:49
You never make any mistakes, but you never get anywhere.
1:19:50
And if you start and you stumble, you will make loads of mistakes and that's what kind of exposes you and there's all these flaws and everything, but you got somewhere and it's that awkward messiness that Yeah, and it's like you it's hard in the moment.
1:20:02
Like, anything that's like worth anything is hard in the moment, you know?
1:20:06
It's like, the mistakes are hard, it sucks, but you learn from them and it's very cliché, but it is so true.
1:20:09
You know, and you're right, if you don't get into a relationship, like, you know, I have a friend who like is like hasn't gotten to a relationship cuz she's kind of scared.
1:20:19
I'm like, you just have just just go.
1:20:21
And even if it's not a good one, just go and like learn from it, you know?
1:20:25
Go on that date, you know? Absolutely.
1:20:27
Second question, what is the worst entrepreneurship advice you've ever heard or received?
1:20:31
It's interesting that you earlier you pointed out how I, you know, I I took the advice from the women that I was serving in my mobile business.
1:20:41
What what I didn't do was take the advice from like a bunch of men who didn't understand this business, you know?
1:20:46
And I'm not a big fan of like decision by committee. Yeah, yeah.
1:20:50
Not and not to say that I don't want like trusted people around me to help me make I hear what you're saying.
1:20:53
Yeah, it's like I don't I don't believe in this like let me just ask a million people and then figure it out.
1:20:59
Like I I love using, you know, Steve Jobs, obviously a brilliant, brilliant man.
1:21:04
It's like nobody knew that we didn't know we needed iPhones and and maybe we don't need iPhones, but like we sure love them.
1:21:10
But but we didn't know we needed them.
1:21:12
No, I know what you're saying.
1:21:13
Yeah, like even the I feel like I saw a preview of a the new movie coming out about the founders of Blackberries.
1:21:17
Oh, I want to watch that. I didn't know that. Oh, cool. Okay. I know I saw it.
1:21:21
I'm pretty sure I didn't dream it.
1:21:23
And it because, you know, the story the story is really fascinating.
1:21:26
It's like I like I think the premise of it is that the founder of Blackberry, and this is so apropos to what we're talking about, it's like the people in his company came to him and said like, I think I there's something coming out.
1:21:37
We need to change from the what we're doing and like go into this smartphone world.
1:21:41
And he was like, "No, that's not going to work.
1:21:43
That's not going to happen."
1:21:44
And everybody in the com- the company was like, "No, it's totally going to happen."
1:21:48
And obviously we know it happened and Blackberry went away.
1:21:49
Which by the way, my brother like had the last Blackberry standing is he loved the little buttons. And Yeah. A lot of people did.
1:21:56
And and Blackberry was like revolutionary. one, yeah.
1:21:58
Of course, they were amazing.
1:22:00
They were the first thing, you know?
1:22:00
But this this the story as as I believe it's set up in the preview is like that company could have taken the similar path as as iPhone did, but they didn't.
1:22:10
And and again, I'm loosely remembering the story, but I just think it's really fascinating that you got sometimes you got to just like try something and see if it's going to work and see if people are going to want it.
1:22:20
And I and I'm I've always been a massive fan of Steve Jobs and I'm like so many others and the iPhone.
1:22:24
And you know, it's like it's just so cool.
1:22:26
Like that's you know, like he invented this thing that became this thing, you know?
1:22:30
And and so you know, I feel like don't ever get too caught up in what people think of your idea. Yeah.
1:22:36
Yeah, there's a You remind me of a famous quote from Henry Ford.
1:22:39
He said, "If I would have asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses." Yeah.
1:22:44
Oh my god, I'm going to I'm going to steal that.
1:22:46
It's I mean, that's great.
1:22:47
Yeah, cuz that is what it is.
1:22:49
It's like that committee and that focus group, it's you can't necessarily think beyond what you see. Yeah.
1:22:55
And and you know, and so many ideas don't make it and so many ideas fail and lots of them don't work, but like might as well Somebody's got to try.
1:23:00
We wouldn't get anywhere, you know? Absolutely.
1:23:03
All right, question number three.
1:23:04
What is one habit, mindset, or practice that you believe every entrepreneur should try to develop?
1:23:09
Some sort of awareness practice, you know, whether it's through entrepreneurship.
1:23:17
Like I I listen to your meditations all the time.
1:23:19
Yeah, and I've gotten into this place of every morning before I Not not always, but most of the time I before I like get on my phone and check all my stuff and do all the things.
1:23:28
Like I I'm like keep my phone on sleep mode and get into a meditation while like I'm still in bed.
1:23:34
And I think that like quiet time in the morning and then I'll usually like write for a little while.
1:23:40
Not even like a page, you know, just something to get like like the cobwebs out almost, you know?
1:23:44
And I think it's I think it's just important as a human.
1:23:48
But you know, as a as an entrepreneur just like you know, like level set yourself.
1:23:52
And I and I really try to do it before I go to bed at night, too.
1:23:55
You know, I always go to sleep now whether I'm really tired or not to like some sort of like sleep meditation.
1:24:02
I think I only catch like the first like five or 10 minutes of it. means it's good.
1:24:07
Yeah, but I I really love that.
1:24:07
And I I never had a practice like that before.
1:24:11
And I'll tell you, I never had a practice like that until my my separation happened and I was like, "Huh, you know, I'm by myself."
1:24:16
And we used to like watch TV and then fall asleep and like again, that was a That's like one of those things that I'm like, I'm so glad I I almost never turn my TV on in my bedroom anymore.
1:24:26
I and I know that probably a lot of people don't believe even in that and I'm actually about to move and I'm like, do I want to put a TV in my bedroom?
1:24:32
Because I feel like I almost never watch TV in my room anymore cuz by the time I get in bed, I usually want to read, I want to do my meditation, I want to write and by the time I do all that, I'm so tired and I also I don't know what I pick up so much random information but I I heard somewhere that somebody said it maybe it was you, who knows cuz I watch so much of your stuff, but like by 10:30 you should be off screens.
1:24:54
I think it was maybe Huberman who said it and cuz from 10 10:30 to 4:00 is like your brain starts to go into to depression.
1:25:01
Again, I don't remember the science but I was like, whether this is true or not, I like this.
1:25:06
Like I want to I want to be off my devices by 10:30 and so that's really my goal now, which I used to stay up and watch TV till like midnight.
1:25:11
You know, I'm so glad I don't do that anymore. I feel so much better.
1:25:14
I mean, I was also on a mission to like I got I feel better here like I got to get out of this depression and the sadness so I better do everything I can do and now I'm like, oh, I'm not really that sad anymore.
1:25:24
I'm not really I'm not sad anymore but I think I should still keep doing these things, you know?
1:25:28
And so that I think is important to have that kind of practice and I really have come to love it. That's beautiful. I love it.
1:25:34
All right, question four and five.
1:25:38
Uh question number four how would you define your current purpose?
1:25:44
That's very clear to me right now is like giving back, being of service.
1:25:48
Like I feel really called to like help others in lots of ways.
1:25:51
Like I'm I'm starting this um volunteer program at CHLA which I feel really called to.
1:25:57
I'm looking at doing some stuff with animals and I do a lot of mentoring for other entrepreneurs.
1:26:03
And you know, in some things there's like, you know, money involved and I'm speaking at things and I you know, and I think that that's okay and good. Absolutely.
1:26:10
And then there's some things I'm just donating my time but it's all in like in the name of service. It's beautiful. For sure right now. I love that.
1:26:16
All right, which we ask to every guest who's ever been on this show.
1:26:20
If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be? Uh, to be kind. Mhm.
1:26:27
We're just so divided because of, you know, it's like, I mean, I think it's deeper than that, but it's like this notion of like, you know, even I I said I read something the other day that was like, anger is just grief. Mhm.
1:26:41
We had to it like, it was just like innate in us to be kind to other people. Like, you imagine? Totally.
1:26:47
What kind of world it would be? So much better. Well said.
1:26:49
Everyone, the book is called A Messy Truth.
1:26:54
How I Sold My Business for Millions, But Almost Lost Myself, by New York Times Best Selling Author Alli Webb.
1:26:59
Uh, you can grab the book right now. It's out right now. Share it.
1:27:02
Make you an X Book Club pick. Discuss it. Dissect it.
1:27:05
I mean, if you want to have a real entrepreneurial story and journey in your hand, this is the one to have.
1:27:11
Uh, Alli, thank you so much Thank you.
1:27:14
for coming on the show today and This is amazing.
1:27:16
genuinely being so open and honest and courageous in your own life and here.
1:27:19
And, uh, I look forward to continuing our our new relationship.
1:27:25
And, very grateful for it. Thank you so much.
1:27:27
Thank you so much for having me.
1:27:28
If you loved this episode, you will also love my interview with Charles Duhigg on how to hack your brain, change any habit effortlessly, and the secret to making better decisions.
1:27:39
Look, am I hesitating on this because I'm scared of making the choice, cuz I'm scared of doing the work, or am I sitting with this because it just doesn't feel right yet?