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It's a lie.
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The more nice you are, you deny that you're being violated.
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At the end of many years of being nice, you actually die in your spirit.
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And women only feel like that after the children are raised, after they've checked off all the list.
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Now they're like, I was nice, but what did I get for myself?
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Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world, thanks to each and every single one of you who come back every week to listen, learn, and grow.
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Now you know that I am so deeply committed to wanting to serve and support each and every one of you.
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And today I'm getting to sit down with not only a dear friend, but a phenomenal author who's written a brand new book that is going to help you on your personal path to power. Her name is Dr.
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Shefali, and her new book is called A Radical Awakening, Turn Pain into Power, Embrace Your Truth, and Live Free. Dr.
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Shefali, welcome to On Purpose. Thank you, Jay.
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And I'm so excited to be back with you.
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Thank you for coming in person. I'm so grateful.
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couldn't miss the opportunity.
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No, like we've been friends for 5 years now.
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So the first time we met was when we tweeted each other.
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And I remember we were both like, this person looks like me.
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And And we were messaging away, and then when me, you, and my wife were together, people Oh my goodness. I know. I know.
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Unfortunately, they they always call me your aunt, and they say, don't. No, they don't. How is your nephew, Jay?
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And I go, No, they don't. No, they don't.
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But honestly, I you were one of the first people to ever reach out to me when I first started my journey, and helped me so much, supported me so much, encouraged me so much.
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And I just saw you, you know, writing three New York Times best-selling books.
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You were You're Oprah's favorite parenting expert.
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I mean, you know, just so many great accomplishments.
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And today we're talking about your new book.
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And you've been sharing with me a little bit, and with my research, we've been talking about how this is dedicated to women Yes. to find their power. Yeah.
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Tell me about why this was the right book right now.
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Well, not only because it was the emblem of my own personal finding of power, but we women, and not to denigrate men, but we really are the container, the nurturing emblem for our children.
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And because we primarily raise our children, we're the connectors, we are the nurturers of the earth.
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We carry the feminine principles so strongly within us that if we are subjugated, as we are today in the toxic patriarchy that we live in, then there is no hope for our planet.
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So, I wrote this book to awaken us women, to ignite our own sovereignty, so that when we step into it, the earth can heal.
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I love this already because I there's a few things that come to mind, and I know you beautifully weave together Eastern principles, and you know, you're a therapist, and modern psychology and science.
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Tell me a bit about how do you think women's power has been dampened and weakened over time, and what have we lost as a society because of that? Oh my goodness.
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So, I imagine that pre-recorded history, uh women held a more powerful, pedestalized place.
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So, this is my fantasy of that time.
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However, since recorded history, especially since the last 10,000 years of the agricultural revolution, and then the industrial revolution, and our modern digitized technological revolution, with each passing of era, if you notice, sociologically, we have moved away from the earth, so to speak.
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And you can see now we're living in a virtual reality. What does that mean?
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Our intimacy within the tribe, within the community, within the shared space of the earth, other species, and us, that connection is being severed.
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We are so far removed now from real reality.
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I mean, we literally can see reality in a helmet.
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We don't have to go there.
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What do we lose with each pivotal turn away from these connections?
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We lose our connection to ourselves.
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With each movement away from the earth, our mother, we move away just like a child grows up without its mothering.
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So, in the same way a child who's brought up in an orphan is disconnected from its mothering, we as a humanity are moving away from our mothering, right? I mean, it's clear.
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We have damaged the earth.
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We have destroyed the planet.
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So, with this movement away into masculinity.
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Now, masculinity is beautiful.
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I talk about how we women who are so embedded in our feminine need to embrace the masculine.
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But when the masculine becomes extreme, as we are right now in a toxic masculinity, what happens is that we force the beautiful feminine into a toxic femininity.
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So, we are at extreme polarities, and you know, through Eastern meditation, dualism is a curse.
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So, we're living in a polarized world, in a dualistic world, and we've cut women from their power because it's a toxically masculine world, which doesn't favor the feminine.
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And we women are in our feminine.
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So, in a very microscopic level, let's just bring it down to my family, my child, what happens in the home.
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We women are taught to relinquish our inner voice.
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So, within the patriarchy of the culture, there's another patriarchy, which is in the parenting, which is what I talk about, right?
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Parenting is patriarchal, hierarchical, dogmatic, and linear.
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So, just between parent and child, even mother and daughter, there is a denigration of the daughter's spirit, even by the mother, because she is subsumed in the bigger patriarchy.
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So, this linearity and hierarchy is toxic.
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So, I've been talking about conscious parenting as a whole being subjugating of children.
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Now, take that and put it within a toxic patriarchy, the girl child in particular, the daughter, is really now at the bottom of the totem pole. Yeah.
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Then the girl child of color is even at the, you know, so we're living in a very stratified culture, and it all goes down and affects me in my daily life.
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So, even me, educated, you know, PhD, I was being swallowed in my own lostness.
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So, that's when I woke up in my 40s, no earlier, to realize that if I am lost to my own inner knowing, and I'm laying vanquished to to my own power, what must it be like for others?
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And that's why I wrote this book, you know, each one of my books is really ignited by my own journey, as I'm sure yours is, because until I feel it and until I've lived it, I can't teach it. Yeah.
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So, I really uncovered my own lostness to find my foundness, and this this book really speaks to how every woman and man can reclaim their lost voice.
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We have lost our true authentic voice as women, as a culture, as a species, and our earth is losing its voice. It's everywhere.
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I mean, this is a wake-up call, a crisis in humanity.
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But there is light if we wake up to the light.
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And so this book speaks about that journey from darkness to light and how each one of us can find our light.
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Yeah, I love hearing this from you and I'm I mean that genuinely because I remember when I got married and which is we just talking about it is just 5 years ago, but I've been with my wife now for about 8 years that we've been dating and together.
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And in our culture when a woman is invited into a home, it's considered like you're inviting a goddess into your home, right?
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Like Lakshmi Devi or Saraswati Devi.
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That's actually the culture. Right.
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And that's actually the mindset is that you're actually allowing this abundant goddess to come into your home.
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That's what it's meant to be. Right.
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Um but often it's not translated in that way in actions and behavior. Yes.
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And I know that in my own way I can tell that when I've allowed and when I've worked with my wife to allow her abundance and to allow her to be her best self and her true self it's like the most beautiful bond you can experience.
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And if I ever get lost in the idea of control or taming or you know, like just if you're trying to contain is the right word as you said, like if I see myself having any of that which is not I'm actually not like that at all, but from society and what you hear, if I ever see myself trying to become a container of that energy it actually loses its power and beauty. Right.
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Uh and and that can be as simple as loving my wife's spontaneity to her actually being fulfilled.
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If that Does that any of that make sense? Absolutely.
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So women have been bridled because of these institutions.
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So in this book I talk about how marriage once a contract now has become an engagement and where women are talked about as possessions and as objects of control.
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And so if you veer out of that contract, especially in cultures like ours, heavily patriarchal and unconscious, then the woman is really derided and so she's lost.
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So her only two options are to suffer and stay or you know, or to face ostracism if she defies the norm.
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So institutions that we have created under this toxic patriarchy have begun to encage us.
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And until we reframe what marriage really means.
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And you know, I just went through a divorce so I had to reframe what divorce meant and the fears that came about because of my fear of ostracism really challenged me and made me realize that we can't do this to our women.
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We are not property and we need to be allowed to be unbridled in our power to live free.
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So so these institutions are designed for ownership and possession and control including parenting. Including education.
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All these institutions that we've created suffocate the true spirit and with the demise of the authentic self comes the demise of each other and then the demise of the earth.
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What is done to us we do to others. Absolutely.
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I love how you were speaking about the beginning like mother nature and how that disconnection is the disconnection from the feminine energy but also even as a man when we're suffocating that energy, we actually also don't get to experience it beautifully and deeply and wonderfully. Right. Right?
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Like that's from a from a looking at it from a masculine perspective, it's like if I'm stifling or suffocating feminine energy, then I actually don't get to experience the essence of how amazing it is. Right.
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Because in order for a traditional man, male, to allow his feminine wife to be blossoming in that energy and to have the woman to have masculine energy as well, takes the man to now explore these aspects within themselves.
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So, that is threatening for men who don't want to do the inner work and they don't want to touch the vulnerability that that brings.
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So, they now get denied from that beautiful process of growth themselves.
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So, this book really is not only an invitation for women sitting on their couch right now feeling dislocated in their lives, feeling disenfranchised, feeling scared to open up to their power, but in doing so, they now challenge the men in their lives to now integrate themselves. Yeah.
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Let's talk about those women that you're just mentioning.
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I'm sure a lot of them are listening to this podcast or watching us right now and they're listening to you and saying, "Dr.
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Shefali, I'm you know, I'm I'm in one of those marriages right now or I was raised in that way or maybe my parents still control my life and make my decisions for me."
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Where does that person start their radical awakening?
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Like, what is the beginning?
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As you say in this book, you build the path.
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Tell us about that first step for someone who who is like listening to you right now and saying, "I get it. I'm I'm there."
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This book really speaks to that lonely desolate place that all of us have experienced until we break free.
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We've all experienced desolation of the spirit because we've been disconnected.
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Our parents controlled us.
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We grew up with a prescription list.
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We were raised to be people pleasers, good girls, skinny girls.
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You know, we were we women, if we're honest, have been raised with such a standardized prescription list, you know, of how to be.
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And brown girls, black girls, we're all raised to be following the standard of beauty, the standard of goodness, and we've been suffocated.
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Our fathers may have done it, the culture may have done it, but now we do it to ourselves.
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So, the radical awakening that I talk about in this book is first about understanding what has been done to us by culture and our parenting, our early childhood, and then what we do to ourselves.
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So, now we do it to ourselves, right?
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We look in the mirror and we look at our big earlobe and we objectify ourselves and denigrate ourselves.
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We look at the wrinkle here.
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Nobody's looking at it now, but because it was done to us, we do it to ourselves.
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Because they suffocated us, now we suffocate ourselves.
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So, for the woman out there who's sitting there knowing that she's living in fear, that she's faking it, that she's lying to her partner, that she's being inauthentic, I would tell her that there is a path out of this.
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I was one of those women who was living a role, pleasing everyone around me just to keep everyone happy.
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So, for that woman, I I would tell her that it is scary because she's waking up to the realization that her life has been false.
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She's been living in a false, fake self, and that's scary.
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But now, so she looks ahead and she sees a tunnel, like, who am I without the role?
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Who will I be without being the mother, the wife, the daughter?
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But as she goes through this tunnel, and this book is a uh an accompaniment with her in that tunnel, step by step.
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Then, after the darkness of the tunnel, there is of course light at the end.
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There's no tunnel that is interminable, but it feels like it's never ending.
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But I want that woman I want that woman to know that every woman has felt like that before she's undertaken the greatest journey of her life.
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And the greatest journey of her life will take her to the reclamation of her true power.
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And it's worth taking that journey.
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I I I mean it's it just sounds necessary.
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I mean I'm I'm not a parent yet and I don't have a daughter, but I would I would I would want anyone in my life to feel like they got to live their true self and release their power.
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I just think that I think people as a whole are so much more beautiful when they're getting to live their purpose and their power. Yes.
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They're more attractive to themselves and to other people. Yes.
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And I don't mean attractive on a physical basis.
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I mean energetically attractive. Like Yes.
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You just you notice when you meet someone Yeah.
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who is experiencing that personal connection to that power.
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When you and if you feel comfortable sharing when when you were battling going through the divorce and feeling ostracized, like or or experiencing that, what was the hardest part about that?
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You know, Jay, you and I growing up in India in particular, which is which has facets of the extremes of toxic patriarchy, know better than anyone what pressure women have to keep the home happy and safe and protected, you know, and keep it away from the judgment of others.
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We are raised to not air our dirty laundry, so to speak.
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So, having been conditioned, and every woman in some way or the other is conditioned to bear the onus of keeping it all together, of connecting, of keeping the family safe and happy.
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So, when a woman dares like I dared in my imagination to step out of convention, to break the mold, to to step out of the box of my 25-year-old relationship, the first and immediate fear is, of course, how will I be loved? How will I be validated? Will I be ostracized?
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What will other people say?
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Because we've been conditioned to be tethered to the opinions of others.
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So, the first thing that comes up when you want to be yourself is the battle between yourself and others.
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Who am I for others versus who am I for myself?
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This is the eternal conflict.
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This is why we don't make big, monumental decisions in our lives with courage because we're always weighing what other people will think and how they will feel versus following our own voice.
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So, how do we negotiate this conflict with compassion, with consciousness?
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So, that was my second challenge.
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Okay, I don't want to do this with anger and unconsciousness.
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I want to be able to own my own sovereignty with right and might, but with compassion.
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So, it took me 2 years to negotiate this.
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You know, we don't want to be impulsive and reactive. We want to process.
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So, I wanted to process why was I playing a role for so long?
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What What was the purpose of my role?
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So, my role in my life was to be the savior, to be the ultimate, you know, good girl, to follow the way.
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And in that, I lost myself.
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It was not anyone's fault on the outside.
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It was not even my fault.
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It was just my conditioning.
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So, women out there should not blame themselves or shame themselves or blame their partners.
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This is about the awakening of the of the self.
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So, you have to go through this period of living asleep to wake up.
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So, so my fears were were about battling the conditioning versus the evolution.
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And conditioning is always suppressing the authentic self, and the authentic self is longing to come out.
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So, how do we negotiate that?
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So, it took me 2 years of arduous inner work because I loved everyone in my system, in my old system.
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I didn't want to just discard them.
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This is not about discarding anyone.
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This is about truly divorcing the inauthentic parts of our old life.
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So, that's what I was divorcing.
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I wasn't divorcing my partner.
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I was divorcing my own inauthentic self.
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But, culture doesn't have room for that.
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You know, it says that you're shaming yourself or you're failing.
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So, I had to negotiate those labels within my own being and come to the realization I'm not doing anything wrong. I haven't failed.
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I I'm actually speaking my truth.
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So, I was getting married to my true self and divorcing my inauthentic self.
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And, that's what marriage and divorce should be about. Yeah, absolutely. So well said.
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Thank you for sharing that, by the way.
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I really appreciate that.
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And, I hope it's going to help a lot of people listening because it's it's such a strong attachment to that conditioning that feels like that's the right thing and that breaking that is the wrong thing.
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And, especially in in the traditions that we're speaking about, what when you start identifying those fears and you beautifully explained that, like, 2 years, can you imagine?
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I'm just trying to imagine living with something fearful for 2 years, working through that conditioning.
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What keeps you motivated and inspired in that arduous 2 years of fear, of judgment?
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What what keeps you going at that time?
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So, all my work has been about claiming the authentic voice.
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So, when I finally woke up, I didn't even know I was not authentic.
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I was as authentic as my consciousness allowed.
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And, you and I speak about the consciousness quotient.
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We need to understand that all our {quote} {unquote} mistakes in the past were made under a certain consciousness quotient.
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We should not bemoan or regret or have guilt.
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So, you don't know what you don't know.
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And, until you wake up, you don't know you're asleep.
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So, I didn't know I was asleep till I woke up.
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The minute I woke up to the fact that I may have been inauthentic and I need to now fly to a different space within my being, what kept me motivated was that goal.
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How can I live my most true self?
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All my work has been about chasing that.
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So, I had to really look at am I able to now hold myself to my greatest standard, which is am I living my true self or am I living a lie?
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So, I did an exercise and I think people could do this at home. Would love that.
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Where I declared, I committed that I would pay attention to the things that would come out of my mouth.
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And if in any way it was in the role of good girl or pleaser or being fake because I wanted to avoid conflict, I wouldn't speak. Wow.
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Okay, so I began observing. Wow.
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Let me see how much is a lie.
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And I literally couldn't speak because everything was tethered to the other person's desires and it was such a moment of excitement but also trauma to realize I don't know who I am yet.
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I'm in my 40s, I'm a mother of a teenager and I can't access my true voice like this.
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It takes me so much processing to go, what do I want?
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So, if I am like that, a psychologist, a meditator, I realize there plenty of women out there who are just lost to that inner access.
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We shouldn't take so long to find out what we want, but because we've placed everyone else before us, our true self gets buried.
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So, that was my my chase was like, dare yourself to go through this dark tunnel.
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Yes, you will lose relationships.
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Yes, people will think you're this or that and defy yourself to untether to live your true self.
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So, I know now that people may judge me and have ideas about me, but that's not my focus anymore.
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It is so my inner liberation. So, that's my prize.
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You know, now has it come at a price? Of course.
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But I was willing to pay that price for this prize of being free. Yeah. Yeah.
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Yeah, no, that that I mean that that last line of what you just said of like paying the price for the prize of being free. Mhm.
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I mean, that just I mean, that touches me so deeply when you hear that because it's it's almost like yes, the path is painful, but the power that you get to hold at the end of it as your own.
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But one of the biggest fears and you mentioned it just there, one of the biggest fears I feel for a lot of women is that they're putting everyone before them.
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And a lot of women who are seeking their power would go, "Oh, but I have a child that I'm not sure how they're going to react to it."
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Or maybe it's almost like and again, you can correct me if I'm wrong and I'm totally open to being corrected, but the way I'm observing the fear is if I stand in my power, that could make my child or someone in my life feel powerless somehow. Yes. Yes.
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And that feels like a a real fear because as you said, like women as mothers so often are not thinking about themselves at all. Yeah.
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And so, you kind of stay in pain for the benefit of someone else.
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I'm so happy you brought that up because that is one of the most practical mountains before anyone who has a family if they want to reconfigure the family.
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Our first concern as women is our children.
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You know, we've been raised as mothers, we are mothering in nature.
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So, even in my own life, my daughter was my primary concern.
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And then you're conditioned to feel selfish if you put yourself first, especially women, especially mothers. 100%.
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And then there's a whole other practical side of money, which is a big impediment because the way our culture is set up in these nuclear families, women are not only cut off from their sorority, they don't have other women to count on, they're they're raising their families alone, they're also cut off from financial power. Right?
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So, most of these families have the men in charge of the financial power, so women feel bereft.
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Then she's not being raised in a tribe anymore.
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She's not raising her children in a tribe. So, now she's alone.
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So, there are many considerations for women why they don't want to reconfigure their family.
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So, how do we negotiate that, right?
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So, of course, if your children are young, if your children are teenagers, all this makes a difference.
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My kid was a teenager, so it was very different for me.
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I was financially autonomous.
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It was very different for me.
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I was on this path already. It was different for me.
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So, there's no diminishing of the enormous hardship we face to reconfigure family.
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All I would give women is the offering that the reason that they're particularly finding it hard is not just because it is hard, but because of how we've been conditioned to look at it. Right.
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So, I would encourage women, and I do this all the time in my practice, if you are in pain to the point that your spirit is being suffused, your daughter is going to see that. Mhm.
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Your son is going to see that.
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So, whether you like it or not, you are passing down enormous trauma.
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So, keeping the family together for the sake of how it looks on paper doesn't absolve the continuance of the trauma.
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So, when I tell women that, they go, "Okay, if I'm going to stay in trauma and pass down trauma for the sake of the appearance, is that more worth it to me or saying, 'Forget the appearance, let me heal and pass down healing.
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Let me tell you, our kids want us healthy.
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They don't want us traumatized.
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And the next thing kids don't want is to feel like they have to fix it or that they are to blame.
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So, if you arrive at wholeness without giving your kids this, your kids are going to be okay.
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Now, is it what they desire? No.
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But, are they going to be traumatized? No.
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I mean, I've done this in a way that has kept me whole and my kid whole to a certain degree.
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And then I can teach my kid, "The only reason you're feeling broken is because culture tells you you're broken. You're not broken.
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The family's reconfigured.
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The family has shapeshifted. That's a good thing.
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That's a healthy move towards our greater selves. How is this a bad thing?
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So, then I get an opportunity to teach her how culture has pressurized us women to stay within these institutions out of shame.
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And we don't want to live like that.
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So, it's a wonderful opportunity, but the woman has to come into that realization of power. Yeah.
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Yeah, I loved what you said there because in essence, what you're saying is you can keep your family together, but you're actually tearing your children apart. Yes. Right?
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It's like because you're passing on that trauma. Right.
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And that trauma of keeping a family together Yes.
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can actually create more trauma But, that's the thing, right?
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It's like a lot of people would hear that and they'll say, "Okay, Dr.
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Shefali, I won't I won't let my kid know that I'm Yes.
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I'm feeling anything Yes.
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because they won't see it." But, kids do see that. They can tell. Right.
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But, I tell women who are really on the fence that it's not the time. Right.
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This is not about feeling the slightest unhappiness and bolting.
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This is not about blaming the other person.
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This is about truly understanding our own co-creation in this.
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If you bash the other person, that breaks your kid, whether you're in a marriage or you're not in a marriage.
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If you act in brokenness, either hidden or explicit, that breaks your kid.
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So, when women are trying to negotiate and barter, you know, I can handle it, that means they're not ready.
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So, that means they need to sit in the stew longer.
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You know, I stayed in it for a long time. There's no rush.
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This is about the evolution of the authentic self. There's no timeline.
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It doesn't look a certain way, and it's never about the other person.
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This is something I really need people to understand as they radically awaken, that they need to take ownership for their co-creation, because then this is like what Gandhi did in India.
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He told Indians to take ownership of their own power. Make your own clothes.
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Make your own sugar and salt.
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Don't rely on the British Empire.
29:38
That's how he emboldened the vanquished to stand up.
29:44
So, the oppressed can never blame the oppressor.
29:48
There is no such thing at the end of the day.
29:50
There's physical oppression, but all mental oppression has to be looked at by the one who's feeling mentally oppressed.
29:58
So, women need to first ask themselves, am I still blaming the other?
30:03
If they are, it's not the time to divorce.
30:04
Because they're going to carry that victimhood into the next relationship.
30:10
When they can stand on their own two feet of looking at their own co-creation, now they've healed themselves, now they can leave.
30:19
So, I tell women, no, no, where are you going?
30:22
Now, of course, if there's extreme abuse, they must leave.
30:23
But if it's mental abuse, they need to see how they are co-creating the dance, heal it, own it, then leave.
30:30
The empathy with which you're coming across that perspective of it's not just like, oh, this is the end, and it has to stop here, and you know, I and the idea of not blaming requires a lot of growth.
30:44
Because that's such a natural tendency for all of us when we've been wronged or mistreated.
30:50
I find though that sometimes what happens is men will also move on faster. Yeah.
30:54
And again, I find that and I'm only speaking on behalf of friends I know and people in my life that have experienced this.
31:04
I'm not saying this for all women, I'm just saying it for people I know.
31:06
They will then again feel that they are not lovable.
31:12
And that they are not beautiful or or worthy or enough.
31:16
Yeah, so let's talk about that.
31:16
So you're right, typically men move on.
31:18
But women have to understand that men are more compartmentalized.
31:25
They are more logical and linear and not in touch with the interconnections of all their psychological complexities like we women are.
31:31
So when men move on, that has no bearing on you who's left behind.
31:37
That's just the man who's continuing on his compartmentalized ways which is probably why you wanted to leave in the first place.
31:42
You know, but at the bottom of it all is that we are still seeking something from our partner.
31:51
And what we're seeking is that love and worth.
31:53
We are hungry for love and worth.
31:57
And this is the bottom of the bottom, right?
31:58
And and I call it the pill that kills and the pill that kills is our unworthiness.
32:06
So all of our relationships, the intimate ones, the friendships, the parenting processes all hold a mirror to how unworthy do I feel.
32:17
And that's what this whole journey of life is about at the end of the day.
32:20
Take away the Botox, take away the Bentley, take away the fancy education, it's about am I worthy?
32:27
We've been looking for worth through the marriage, through the shoes, through the degrees, through the books, or whatever.
32:34
And as long as you look for worth in the wrong places, you haven't come to the evolution of your authentic self.
32:42
So So, not blaming the other is just part of that releasing of the external. Release the shoes. Release the makeup.
32:50
Release the the success, the achievement, the accolades. Now, who am I on my own?
32:55
That's what women need to arrive at.
32:58
Who am I without my roles? Mhm.
33:01
Who am I without my roles? Yes.
33:03
Yeah, that is such a big question because I feel like for everyone on the planet, we all define ourselves by our roles.
33:10
And one of the things I love about that you do in the book is you have this whole section called Cracking the Matrix.
33:14
And you list about and I'm just going to share this with everyone.
33:19
You list all the different lies that women are taught.
33:22
And so here you have met multiple chapters.
33:23
Lies about love, lies about marriage and divorce, lies about our sexuality, lies about motherhood, lies about beauty and youth, and lies about niceness.
33:33
I wanted to go through some of the lies because I think that it's fascinating because I think half the thing is being aware of the lie. Yeah.
33:42
And most people don't even know that they're being lied to.
33:43
So, when it comes to I would love to hear Let's start with lies about beauty and youth. Oh my goodness.
33:49
It's the biggest that's one that our generation, my generation, the social media, Instagram generation experiences the most.
33:57
What are the lies about beauty and youth?
34:02
That we need to be beautiful in a particular way.
34:05
And we need to be eternally young.
34:07
And let me tell you, culture has done a number on us, but who does a number more on ourselves than ourselves? We excoriate ourselves. We like whip ourselves.
34:19
Like you don't know what we women do when we look in the mirror.
34:23
You have no idea as a man. agree. I definitely don't know. Yeah, you just show up.
34:28
And the things that go on in the dressing room, that is the female side of the you know on of the stage, like in our talks, you should see what's happening in the female side. Wow.
34:38
Now, who's doing that to us, right?
34:40
We have done this to ourselves.
34:42
And I get it because it was done to us.
34:45
We were looked and we are objects of great beauty and desire, but we don't want to be objectified.
34:54
And now we've internalized the objectification.
34:58
You know, so what was our nature, you know, all females are the ones that the males run after in the animal kingdom, right?
35:06
Because the males want to spread their sperm. Part of nature.
35:09
It's part of our biology.
35:11
But what culture has done to us now is that it's told us we can only be desirable if we look a certain way.
35:22
And it is a whiteified standard of beauty.
35:24
It's changing now, but for the most part when you and I were growing up, you know, in India, the most famous cream was called Fair and Lovely.
35:33
Fair meaning white, okay?
35:33
Like they use the word fair for white.
35:36
So it's so heavily laden with whiteism and patriarchy that we women are now oppressed by this idea of beauty.
35:47
So how do we break out of it, right?
35:47
It takes all of us to not wear makeup.
35:51
It takes all of us and we're not only now wearing makeup.
35:56
I mean, makeup is the most mild thing we do.
35:57
Now we're altering our faces, we're disguising our buttocks, we're you know, taking the saggy jaw. We are out of control.
36:05
20-year-olds are going to Botox clinics.
36:07
So now with every passing decade, the standards are becoming more animatronics, you know, more perfect and tweaked and curated.
36:18
And the the more the technology, the more the subjugation.
36:21
So we women have to rise together and all of us have to agree because that one woman who ruins it for us, you know, like we've all decided to wear jeans and then she wears her stilettos.
36:32
Now she messes it up for the rest of us, right?
36:34
We went for the school drop-off in pajamas, but then that woman wears her, you know, hair all made up.
36:40
Now she makes us feel bad. Because we feel bad.
36:43
We women now compete with each other.
36:46
And each time we compete with each other and up the other, oh, you just got your breasts?
36:53
I'm going to get my butt.
36:53
And then I'm going to get my underarm.
36:55
And then I'm going to get my ears.
36:58
Each time we do that, we don't realize, not only do we not stand together as sisters, we genuflect on our knees to the patriarchy.
37:06
We've given you men so much power by competing with each other.
37:13
You know, we need to make men in general, and I talk heterosexual, used to the idea that we are going to grow old, we have wrinkles, we sag, and we're not perfect.
37:23
The more we feed into the idea of perfection, we feed into patriarchy.
37:29
Because who suffers in front of the mirror? We do. Who gains? You do. The men do.
37:33
So, in our own way, by oppressing ourselves under insane ideas of perfectionism, we give our power to the patriarchy that we complain about.
37:49
But listen, it takes a lot of courage.
37:50
I'm talking a lot, but I wanted to make sure my hair was okay.
37:52
I wanted to make sure I looked all, you know, fabulous.
37:57
So, I fall into it myself.
37:57
I'm not going to pretend I am not falling into it.
37:59
I'm going to watch it, though.
38:02
I'm going to watch how far I go.
38:04
I have ideas about like, oh, I can wipe away all my wrinkles? Let's do it. But I watch it.
38:12
I don't I don't indulge in it.
38:14
I watch how that voice is my internal oppressor.
38:17
And then I talk to that voice, and I go, "No, a few wrinkles is good. It's good. You are growing old.
38:24
Why do you want to look like a 20-year-old?
38:26
Shefali, you're approaching 50. Accept it." So, I have a dialogue.
38:32
I want women to engage in that dialogue and not rush to mutate themselves because when they do that, they deny who they are right here, right now. I'm a 50-year-old woman.
38:43
I'm not ashamed to say it.
38:45
I don't want to fake it anymore.
38:47
So, when we women can It's not easy, okay? I just said I'm 50 now. I'm like, "Oh."
38:53
But, you know, but you have We have to do that.
38:56
So, that we don't pretend Yeah.
38:58
I don't want other women to look at me thinking, "Oh, wow.
39:00
Wow, she looks so young." No, I don't look young.
39:05
I have wrinkles all over the place, cellulite all over the place.
39:07
I'm going to say it on on your podcast because I want women to embrace all the sagginess and stop making yourself perfect for men or for your partner.
39:18
Nobody Nobody deserves perfectionism because that's an ideal. It's an illusion. You're faking it. So, don't give it.
39:26
Don't pretend you can even give it.
39:28
It's not something to be given and no one deserves it anyway. Yeah. That's beautiful.
39:31
Thank you again for just like And I appreciate you just know, but I I know what you're saying.
39:36
You're not telling people to not dress up or not look nice.
39:39
That's not what you're saying.
39:41
You're just saying that if you're not observing where it's coming from and why you're doing it, what the intention was and who is it serving ultimately. And how much, Jay? And how much, yeah. How much? Yeah.
39:52
I mean, what There's no end.
39:54
There's the knee, there's the mid-thigh.
39:56
I mean, you've seen women.
39:56
It's like now we are buying product to make ourselves something other than who we were naturally.
40:03
And by doing that again, we disconnect and we actually be feel more insecure.
40:12
We think it's going to Ah, that nice butt is going to make me secure? It doesn't. doesn't, yeah.
40:16
Because it's an it's a void of unworthiness that can never be filled by injections or by people. That was so powerful. That was beautiful.
40:26
I mean that's just one of the lies that we dived into. That was so powerful.
40:30
Tell me about the lies about niceness.
40:33
Because I think that's one that a lot of women are struggling with right now in the workplace, even on camera and interviews.
40:39
I know there's been a lot of interviews that have been going seeing viral old Hollywood interviews where celebrity actresses were mistreated on talk shows.
40:49
But they continued to be nice. Oh my goodness.
40:51
To the man who is mistreating them in whatever way it is.
40:55
And you can see them squirming.
40:57
But she can't say anything. She can't say anything. She can't stop him.
40:59
She Because it's his show. Right?
41:00
So we girls have been raised subliminally subconsciously to understand it's the man's show.
41:10
I remember going to the dentist when I was in India and the man literally kissed me inappropriately, touched me.
41:18
But I was like it's his office.
41:18
I didn't say it I didn't say a word of protest. Because it was his show.
41:23
So we are raised as young girls to let men have their show.
41:28
Let the show go on and you just be quiet.
41:32
And that's the myth about niceness.
41:32
And boys don't have that.
41:34
Boys are encouraged to be rambunctious and oh you know he's so naughty and let him talk, you know, he's a boy.
41:40
So boys get away with it.
41:43
And I'm not saying you get away with all of it, but you get away with way more than us girls. Boys will be boys. Boys will be boys.
41:48
Girls have to be nice, quiet, kind, obedient, polite. Right?
41:54
We have to sit with our legs really tight and we have to do this and we have so many prescriptions. So what does that do?
42:01
That teaches us that if something is being done that is violating us, our boundary or our emotional health, we are trained to be nice despite that.
42:13
Like our first antenna is how can I be nice?
42:16
How can they see me as a nice person?
42:19
To so to be seen as the right and and I'm not encouraging that we should be called the but to be seen as that is the curse is the anathema.
42:27
We don't want to be seen like that.
42:30
So in my own personal journey, I had to become comfortable being called the And then I realized, oh I'm only called the when I'm not being nice.
42:37
When I'm nice, no one calls me the So I had to go through this process of becoming comfortable breaking the barrier of being nice or being seen as nice.
42:46
So we've been told that niceness will get us love, will get us security, will get us belonging, will get us worth. It's a lie.
42:55
The more nice you are and avoid conflict, avoid the deny you know, you deny that you're being violated, at the end of many years of being nice, you actually die in your spirit.
43:07
You know, yeah you were nice, but now what?
43:12
You're dead in your spirit.
43:12
And women only feel like that after the children are raised, after they've checked off all the list.
43:18
Now they're like, I was nice, but what did I get for myself?
43:23
So that's a tragedy if we live our whole life being nice, but not being authentic. Mhm. I love that. These are beautiful.
43:29
I hope everyone who's listening and watching is hearing this and and just realizing how much of this is so deeply ingrained.
43:35
I know I'm listening to it and I I catch myself doing it all the time.
43:40
I think for me because I was raised primarily by my mom and and I have a younger sister, I was exposed to their experience of this as much as I could be without being a woman myself.
43:53
Uh and and I think that made me hyper aware.
43:58
And it took me it takes me even now I catch myself naturally having male privilege without noticing it, right?
44:05
Like you don't notice these things.
44:06
I remember it was a few years ago now when I first realized I was like, "Oh, wait a minute.
44:12
If my sister wanted to be a soccer player, she could never even have dreamt of it because there were no female soccer players."
44:17
Like even something as basic as that, that is so basic. Right.
44:21
But when you take that to the depths of what we're speaking about here, we're talking about the opportunity to be yourself.
44:26
Forget about an opportunity to be a soccer player or a or a career, you're talking about the opportunity to actually be your true self.
44:37
Yeah, I mean that's so far because we have to first feel safe.
44:39
You know, the other day uh three of my girlfriends were in an elevator and a male came inside the elevator.
44:46
And he just came in so casually sauntered in and sauntered out. That's male privilege.
44:52
If a woman came into an elevator with three men, she'd be really nervous.
44:56
She'd be waiting for the elevator doors to open or for some woman to walk in with her.
45:00
We are constantly scanning our environment.
45:02
We grow up in constant threat of predation.
45:08
This is just the way it is.
45:08
However, besides that physiological threat, we have mental oppression of all these lies that we've been told of how to be and to be in service, you know, and we want to be in service.
45:20
Women naturally are nurturing, but we don't want to be in service of others to the obliteration of ourselves. Yeah. Absolutely, of course.
45:30
I want to I want to ask you this last question, Shefali, before we switch to our final five.
45:33
Your last chapter is called Embracing Emptiness.
45:38
I love that because I think that what you do so well is you don't paint like a rosy picture of stuff.
45:44
Like you never have since we've met, even in your personal dealings.
45:48
Like you're not a you are not a rosy picture painter kind of like, "Oh, this is how perfect evolution looks."
45:54
Or "This is how perfect a radical awakening."
45:56
Even the word radical, right?
45:58
It's not beautiful in the external sense of what we think of as beauty.
46:03
When you end a book with a chapter called embracing emptiness, I'm like, "Wow, like that that's a real challenging statement." Yeah.
46:12
Tell us about how one needs to and why and how one embraces emptiness. Yes.
46:17
So, you and I have really embodied to many aspects um the Eastern principles of de-identifying from the external. Right?
46:28
So, every spiritual quest at its core is about teaching us that our masks of our false self bring us great suffering. Why?
46:38
Because we think that's who we are. So, we think we are Dr.
46:44
Shefali or Jay Shetty, the podcaster or the fancy author or we think we are that and we identify with that.
46:53
So, the woman may identify as being young or the mother or the good one or the peacemaker.
47:01
When we identify with anything that is a role to the external world, we have unendurable suffering because when that role is taken away then we are left with who am I?
47:13
So, Buddhism in particular, and I don't like to call it Buddhism because it has an ism, but what the Buddha taught in essence was to detach from these external identifications.
47:24
And when you do, you discover that you are limitless. You are space. You are energy.
47:32
You are the I am and the we are and that we're all interconnected.
47:36
So, if you and me and him and her are all causing and affecting each other, we're all cause and effects of each other, then there is no autonomous me. So, the ego dissolves. Right?
47:50
So, once we have this spanned out perspective that we're all interconnected.
47:59
There is no I as in a solid ego.
48:02
Therefore, there is no Jay Shetty or Dr. Shefali.
48:05
You begin to realize the myth of it all and the illusion of it all.
48:10
And then you begin to let go and untether.
48:13
And strangely, as you untether, you become more connected.
48:17
Because you see that you and me are one.
48:20
And we are all mirrors of each other.
48:22
So, if I hurt you, I will hurt myself.
48:24
So, this is the eternal spiritual quest to become empty of the ego, to arrive at the emptiness of the individual ego, and surrender to the cosmic connectedness that we are. Mhm. I love that description. That's so beautiful.
48:41
That and the the fact that this book goes from our complete Well, not our, but women's suppression and control to that spiritual evolution.
48:53
I mean, that's beautiful.
48:54
That's phenomenal that you're able to guide someone.
48:56
And I've come to your events where I was blown away.
48:58
I went to one of your events in New York probably about 5 years ago. Yeah.
49:04
And there were people that came on stage to share their journey with you.
49:10
And it was unbelievable to hear people just like talk about how you had privately helped them either through your practice or through your books and your work.
49:18
And I can't wait for this book to help so many more people.
49:20
It's going to be phenomenal.
49:22
And uh I highly recommend A Radical Awakening to absolutely everyone.
49:27
We're going to put the link in the comments.
49:28
So, I want you to order this while you've been listening to this podcast.
49:31
Uh we are going to ask Dr. Shefali her final five.
49:36
But please, at this moment, go and put in your order for the book.
49:38
Uh I promise you you won't regret it.
49:40
I'm sure it's going to be something that's really, really going to support you. I loved what Dr.
49:45
Shefali said that she's created a step-by-step guide through the tunnel.
49:49
And that's where we need it most, right?
49:51
That's where you need it most, the real hand-holding. Uh so, Dr.
49:53
Shefali, I have your final five that I want to ask you.
49:57
These questions have to all be answered in one word or five to seven words maximum, so like a sentence.
50:02
Uh so, these are your final five.
50:05
The first question is, "What's the best advice you've ever received?"
50:10
To be free is the greatest gift. Love it.
50:13
What's the worst advice you've ever received?
50:15
Be nice, be polite, be sweet. Good.
50:20
Uh question number three.
50:20
What's something that men just don't that men can't be fully empathetic or compassionate for towards women?
50:28
What can we not understand about a woman's experience?
50:34
Apart from giving birth and stuff, obviously.
50:35
Yeah, you can't maybe understand how oppressed we are by male desire, by standards of beauty, and how that's oppressive, actually.
50:46
And we need your help to tell us, like, "Don't wear makeup."
50:51
Or, "Don't wear those high heels."
50:52
We need you to not encourage our psychosis. Yeah.
50:59
So, yeah, that's a role we need to play.
51:01
It's so funny cuz every time I see my wife not wearing makeup, I always tell her how cute she looks.
51:04
Not out of I'm not even conscious.
51:06
I just think she's adorable. Yeah.
51:07
But, it's it's so funny because she's always like, "Well, you think I look cute like this?" I'm like, "Yeah, I do. Like, you look great."
51:14
Like, but it's that's how deeply rooted it is that that you don't even think you can look good without being dressed up and ready. Uh fourth question.
51:21
What's your biggest lesson from the last 12 months? That there is no future.
51:26
I think these last 12 months, being the pandemic, has taught us live in the present.
51:34
There is no future, you know. Yeah.
51:37
And fifth and final question, if you could create one law that everyone had to follow in the world, what would it be?
51:44
I think my law would be you can't have children until you do some serious serious inner work. Wow.
51:53
And yeah, if you're too old, yeah, you can't have children. Wow. You adopt.
52:00
Wow, that is a challenging law.
52:00
But it But I know what you're saying that you're saying that that responsibility requires certain uh skills and abilities and qualities and I mean if There's no qualification for it.
52:13
It was I think it was it was Adam Grant actually.
52:15
Adam Grant posted this reset study the other day and it was showing like how much experience is needed to get a job at Walmart, to get a job at this.
52:23
And then to be a parent it was like And now you have created the next generation and you don't know what to do with them and you pass down your brokenness.
52:29
I mean the reason we are in the state we are is because of broken parents. Yeah.
52:34
Everyone who's been watching, make sure you tag me and Dr.
52:38
Shefali on Instagram with your biggest takeaways.
52:40
Make sure you go and follow Dr.
52:42
Shefali across all social media channels.
52:44
We love to see what resonated with you.
52:46
So when you tag us on any platforms, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, we'll be watching watching out for what really stood out to you and resonated to you.
52:55
Again, the name of the book is A Radical Awakening. It's in the comments.
53:00
Uh Turn Pain Into Power, Embrace Your Truth, and Live Free. Dr.
53:02
Shefali, thank you so much. Thank you for having me. Thank you. That was beautiful.
53:07
book Think Like a Monk from thinklikeamonkbook. com.
53:13
Check below in the description to make sure you order today.